| 00:00.49 | Phrozn | !timeline |
| 00:00.50 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
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| 00:02.16 | KillerX | hmm |
| 00:02.31 | KillerX | So I just clicked the 'Public Review' checkbox, when I didn't mean to |
| 00:02.35 | Ori_B | Hmm? |
| 00:02.37 | KillerX | and the comment went through |
| 00:02.41 | KillerX | this is potentially disastrous |
| 00:02.43 | KillerX | what can I do? |
| 00:02.52 | Ori_B | KillerX: ping lh? |
| 00:02.55 | KillerX | BTW, hey Ori_B :) |
| 00:03.00 | KillerX | lh: frantic ping?! |
| 00:03.13 | Ori_B | KillerX: hey |
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| 00:04.18 | Catfish_Man | KillerX: she's been sick lately |
| 00:04.22 | Catfish_Man | try #melange perhaps? |
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| 00:06.35 | ojwb | that's your best option |
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| 00:12.09 | KillerX | alright poked in #melange |
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| 00:14.39 | danderson | oh for christ's sake |
| 00:14.56 | danderson | hates both django and app engine now, after one short hour of trying to get the two to fucking play nice together |
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| 00:16.34 | r0bby | hugs danderson |
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| 00:36.58 | danderson | GAH, finally |
| 00:37.07 | danderson | and it only took restarting from scratch about 10 times |
| 00:37.17 | r0bby | danderson: why does coding for gsoc start on a saturday (may 23) |
| 00:37.55 | danderson | because it doesn't start on a monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday or sunday |
| 00:38.03 | danderson | I mean, seriously, wtf kind of question is that? |
| 00:38.18 | rkatiyar | O.o |
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| 00:38.32 | danderson | not to be rude or anything, but I don't see what sodding difference it makes |
| 00:38.43 | danderson | (yes, I am in a bad mood, it may transpire slightly) |
| 00:38.50 | MatthewWilkes | hugs danderson |
| 00:38.51 | MatthewWilkes | there, there |
| 00:38.56 | r0bby | I dunno |
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| 00:39.01 | r0bby | hugs danderson |
| 00:39.16 | rkatiyar | people troll when they have nothing to do |
| 00:39.17 | danderson | gets out his fork for the next person who tries that touchy feely stuff |
| 00:39.37 | MatthewWilkes | gets out his fork() for double hugging |
| 00:39.52 | hansh | Saturday: fewer people to distract you |
| 00:39.57 | rkatiyar | fork( fork() ) O.O |
| 00:40.48 | r0bby | Im not trolling! |
| 00:40.55 | r0bby | i'm asking a serious question... |
| 00:41.01 | rkatiyar | lol, yeah sure |
| 00:41.15 | r0bby | I'm not! |
| 00:41.18 | r0bby | i'm r0bby! |
| 00:41.21 | r0bby | I _NEVER_ troll |
| 00:41.26 | Landon | r0bby: it's not like we have social lives anyways |
| 00:41.29 | Landon | why not start on a weekend |
| 00:41.29 | Landon | :) |
| 00:41.33 | hansh | exactly |
| 00:41.37 | r0bby | I'd like to have one! |
| 00:41.42 | rkatiyar | Landon: /s/we/me |
| 00:41.50 | Landon | then go do an artsy fartsy internship :P |
| 00:41.56 | hansh | r0bby: might want to include that in your proposal |
| 00:41.56 | Landon | hehehe |
| 00:42.08 | Landon | I'm going to try and keep my weekends free for other projects |
| 00:42.10 | rkatiyar | i'd like to have some social life too, where did you buy that stuff |
| 00:42.31 | Landon | hardware+last socs project needs some touchups |
| 00:42.37 | MatthewWilkes | http://www.getafirstlife.com/ |
| 00:42.44 | Landon | NO YOU |
| 00:42.56 | rkatiyar | lol @ MatthewWilkes |
| 00:43.16 | r0bby | is /jj |
| 00:43.19 | r0bby | crap |
| 00:43.36 | rkatiyar | seriously dude they should sell social life somewhere, and make millions :P |
| 00:43.51 | Landon | haha |
| 00:43.53 | hansh | they tried with Second Life |
| 00:43.54 | danderson | okay, that site made my day |
| 00:43.58 | Landon | "Fornicate using your actual genitals" |
| 00:43.59 | danderson | I knew about it, but |
| 00:44.02 | danderson | Ads by google |
| 00:44.05 | danderson | Drug abuse |
| 00:44.12 | danderson | awesome. |
| 00:44.16 | hansh | I get it now... |
| 00:44.21 | danderson | Adsense totally understood that page. |
| 00:44.33 | Landon | aw you can't click anything |
| 00:44.34 | Landon | :( |
| 00:44.35 | r0bby | Google ads had a cyanide poisoning kit for cyanide and happiness |
| 00:44.36 | rkatiyar | thats why google makes most money :P |
| 00:44.36 | Landon | other than the ads |
| 00:44.37 | r0bby | it was funny |
| 00:44.43 | MatthewWilkes | Experiment with mind-altering recreational drugs! The First Life world is your oyster. |
| 00:45.04 | r0bby | LOL |
| 00:45.09 | rkatiyar | i m gonna check on score |
| 00:46.03 | rkatiyar | buys a first life |
| 00:46.09 | MatthewWilkes | Right, now I'm going to go to bed, and take danderson's foul mood with me |
| 00:47.04 | MatthewWilkes | (Got to be up in 6 hours so I can go to the cunting magistrates court to try and stop them sending bailiffs to my house to collect £1000 of taxes I'm not even supposed to pay) |
| 00:47.33 | r0bby | could you? |
| 00:47.43 | r0bby | danderson: be happpppppppy like r0bby |
| 00:48.02 | Landon | I should nap[ |
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| 00:48.11 | Landon | while ogre is compiling |
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| 00:50.17 | danderson | Landon: when you nap 12 hours it's called sleeping |
| 00:50.36 | danderson | (that free jab at ogre's long compile time even on my quad-core brought to you free!) |
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| 00:52.12 | Landon | hehe |
| 00:52.29 | Landon | well |
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| 00:52.37 | Landon | I never said "until ogre is done compiling" |
| 00:52.38 | Landon | :) |
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| 01:00.40 | rkatiyar | without ultra port guard 2000, hackers can steal your children :O |
| 01:01.42 | Landon | <3 easy sysadmin jobs |
| 01:02.04 | Landon | I'm one for a research group in the CS dept and one for a few biology groups |
| 01:02.08 | Landon | guess which one is easier :P |
| 01:02.16 | rkatiyar | biology i guess |
| 01:02.42 | Landon | "You need to get XXX package set up so it can use YYY feature on ZZZ computers" vs "Can you set up a mysql account for me?" |
| 01:03.04 | rkatiyar | haha |
| 01:03.21 | rkatiyar | biology for sure |
| 01:04.28 | Landon | nice and simple stuff from people who maybe have 1 or 2 windows computers at home |
| 01:04.46 | Landon | "You need to download putty and follow this short and simple guide to access the server, etc etc" |
| 01:05.08 | Landon | the other job well..... setting up LDAP on a ragtag group of machines at my bosses house? |
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| 01:19.41 | rkatiyar | omg they killed kenny ! |
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| 01:29.49 | omniter | blah... |
| 01:30.13 | omniter | there's only like 3 days left |
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| 01:30.35 | omniter | i submitted an application 4 days ago, but my org still hasn't reviewed it =\ |
| 01:30.44 | irahul | !next |
| 01:30.44 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
| 01:30.45 | omniter | i thought they were supposed to help you make revisions |
| 01:31.37 | Landon | march has 31 days |
| 01:31.37 | Landon | :p |
| 01:31.57 | omniter | oh right... |
| 01:32.05 | omniter | lol sorry... |
| 01:32.14 | omniter | thought it was feb for some reason |
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| 01:38.07 | ojwb | omniter: it's unhelpful that they haven't reviewed it yet, but some orgs may wait until all apps are in to do that |
| 01:38.34 | ojwb | personally I think it's better to encourage early applications |
| 01:38.51 | omniter | yeah... |
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| 01:39.22 | ashishpaliwal | are org supposed to give us some kind of feedback after we submit the application and before 3rd |
| 01:39.25 | ashishpaliwal | ?? |
| 01:39.47 | barmstr | nope |
| 01:39.52 | barmstr | so just sit back and relax :) |
| 01:39.57 | omniter | barmstr, they're not? |
| 01:40.03 | Catfish_Man | they may |
| 01:40.05 | omniter | =\ |
| 01:40.06 | omniter | oh |
| 01:40.09 | omniter | darn... |
| 01:40.13 | barmstr | it's been my experience that they don't |
| 01:40.19 | omniter | so i gotta wait a whole month? OH TEH NOEZ |
| 01:40.23 | barmstr | it'll get reviewed when it gets reviewed |
| 01:40.29 | omniter | goes insane |
| 01:40.45 | Catfish_Man | ime the ones that get comments are the controversial ones |
| 01:40.49 | barmstr | the standard response is "go work on your project or at least something productive in the meantime" |
| 01:40.54 | Catfish_Man | good ones just "yeah, definitely" in a private comment |
| 01:41.00 | Catfish_Man | bad ones just get voted down |
| 01:41.38 | ashishpaliwal | hmmm |
| 01:42.08 | barmstr | don't worry, if they pick you, you're not going to miss out on that |
| 01:43.06 | omniter | barmstr, if they don't pick you though, they should tell you as soon as they know right? i mean it's only right not to keep someone waiting even though you won't pick them. |
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| 01:43.40 | barmstr | you won't know until the deadline that they won't pick you generally |
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| 01:43.40 | barmstr | until their picking deadline, that is |
| 01:43.40 | Catfish_Man | omniter: we don't necessarily know |
| 01:43.41 | omniter | ouchies |
| 01:43.43 | Catfish_Man | a really bad proposal, sure |
| 01:43.46 | barmstr | that's because the orgs have limited spots |
| 01:43.51 | Catfish_Man | but a pretty good one? maybe maybe not |
| 01:43.57 | barmstr | And sometimes two orgs pick the same guy |
| 01:44.01 | barmstr | then they have to fight over him |
| 01:44.06 | barmstr | and the loser has to pick someone else :) |
| 01:44.14 | omniter | ah, right |
| 01:44.32 | barmstr | you're of course going to be quite antsy about it, but i'm telling you, it's best not to be |
| 01:44.52 | barmstr | don't go pestering your potential mentor about your status. just checkout the code and start looking at the codebase |
| 01:45.04 | llnz | the org i'm with tries to comment on every proposal as early as possible to help the students improve it |
| 01:45.25 | llnz | and give constructive feedback |
| 01:45.44 | omniter | i guess it differs from org to org then. |
| 01:45.54 | Catfish_Man | llnz: nice of you guys :) |
| 01:46.23 | barmstr | another option would be to put another app in |
| 01:46.35 | barmstr | last year i put in 2 apps, one right before the deadline, and both were chosen |
| 01:46.39 | barmstr | it was a cool feeling |
| 01:46.49 | Catfish_Man | omniter: I got burned on this once, actually. A student was riiiiight on the correct side of the line for being accepted, and I told him that it was pretty much assured |
| 01:46.56 | Catfish_Man | we lost one slot, he didn't get accepted |
| 01:47.00 | Catfish_Man | was rather pissed at me for misleading him |
| 01:47.07 | omniter | ouch... |
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| 01:47.34 | omniter | yeah... i'd be pretty pissed too =\ |
| 01:48.24 | ojwb | Catfish_Man: I'd imagine you weren't too happy at having to let him down either |
| 01:48.25 | barmstr | just remember, it's an opportunity, not a right :) |
| 01:48.47 | Catfish_Man | ojwb: indeed. He's a good friend of mine, so I had to recuse myself from the final discussion over which to accept |
| 01:48.58 | barmstr | A lot of people also forget that you don't have to be in gsoc to contribute to open source communities! |
| 01:48.59 | ojwb | awkward |
| 01:49.09 | Landon | barmstr: but money is a great motivation |
| 01:49.23 | Landon | if you're working an internship you won't want to work on OSS as much :P |
| 01:49.31 | Landon | especially if it's a job that wears you out |
| 01:49.33 | Catfish_Man | Landon: I had the best of both worlds at one point |
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| 01:49.42 | Landon | recalls what last summers mentor said |
| 01:49.46 | Landon | I'll have to dig it up |
| 01:49.49 | Landon | something about lumberjacking |
| 01:49.59 | Catfish_Man | I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok? |
| 01:50.07 | WinterMute | anyone ever considered fundraising & doing a <project> Summer of Code? |
| 01:50.09 | omniter | lmao |
| 01:50.11 | Landon | heh |
| 01:50.14 | WinterMute | heh |
| 01:50.36 | WinterMute | loves working on OSS, draw the line at wearing frilly panties & a bra |
| 01:50.46 | ojwb | has a tip though - if your application just consists of a few cut and pastes from the application for and ideas list and some minimal information about yourself, don't wait for a review before working on it further... |
| 01:50.46 | omniter | lumberjack(me) ^ okay(me) |
| 01:51.24 | Landon | ./#gsoc.2009.03.29.log:20:50:45 <omniter> lumberjack(me) ^ okay(me) |
| 01:51.25 | Landon | hah |
| 01:51.27 | Landon | thats bril... |
| 01:51.28 | Landon | oh |
| 01:51.29 | Landon | you just said it |
| 01:51.35 | Landon | dangit |
| 01:51.38 | Landon | you're screwing up my grep! |
| 01:51.42 | Catfish_Man | grep fail! |
| 01:51.59 | ojwb | WinterMute: yeah, there have been other sponsored mentoring efforts |
| 01:52.26 | omniter | i guess i shouldn't be too worried. i got reasonable feedback before i actually applied. |
| 01:52.30 | WinterMute | ojwb, any links to examples? |
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| 01:52.48 | ojwb | was just trying to find one |
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| 01:55.09 | Landon | <@bkuhn> Loic Dachary (a French FLOSS developer) divides programming tasks into "thinking" tasks and "lumberjack" tasks. |
| 01:55.22 | Landon | well I thought it was more of a quote than that :p |
| 01:55.28 | Landon | <@bkuhn> lumberjack tasks are things like writing test, which can be done while a bit zoned out. |
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| 01:56.11 | Catfish_Man | is glad there are no lumberjacks here |
| 01:56.17 | Catfish_Man | swinging an axe around while zoned out is a bad idea |
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| 01:57.01 | ojwb | there's an NZ summer of code (which happens around new year of course!) but the site seems down |
| 01:57.07 | ojwb | http://summerofcode.ning.com/ is connected to it |
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| 01:58.50 | ojwb | I believe a few orgs have raised funds for "extra" students, mentored in a similar way to the google ones, but outside of the program |
| 01:59.07 | ojwb | or used the mentor payments to do that |
| 01:59.10 | Landon | WinterMute: surely a <project> summer of code would be better off as a bounty system for students or something |
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| 02:01.11 | ojwb | some projects have bug bounties (not just for students) |
| 02:01.28 | ojwb | not sure how successful such schemes really are |
| 02:01.47 | Landon | I wonder if a feature bounty would fare much better |
| 02:01.52 | ojwb | generally a bug which affects a lot of people gets fixed quickly anyway, at least in a healthy project |
| 02:02.03 | ojwb | Landon: that's probably true |
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| 02:18.49 | MattNol | Does anybody know if you have to move to wherever the project is located? |
| 02:19.11 | ojwb | you don't |
| 02:19.43 | MattNol | I figured but worth making sure :P |
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| 02:22.40 | ojwb | few of the organisations really have a location |
| 02:22.54 | WinterMute | OSS projects are usually located "on the internet" |
| 02:23.20 | MattNol | True enough |
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| 02:26.18 | summatusmentis | man, I'd totally be ok moving my residence "to the internet" |
| 02:26.51 | MattNol | lol |
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| 02:28.46 | p_l | summatusmentis: there are some problems when you move far enough, though... |
| 02:29.11 | summatusmentis | p_l: well, I feel like net neutrality would have a much larger impact on my life |
| 02:29.31 | summatusmentis | and by internet, I don't mean places like /b/ |
| 02:29.56 | p_l | summatusmentis: I meant places like "beyond mars' orbit" |
| 02:30.19 | summatusmentis | hey, whatever, some people wanna be less connected than others. I respect that |
| 02:31.16 | p_l | summatusmentis: In my case, I think I'll just have to work on "batch-mode" internet... |
| 02:31.22 | summatusmentis | ha |
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| 02:33.28 | xallam | someone knows whether openstreetmap have mentors? |
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| 02:52.52 | derkaiser | hi, all~ |
| 02:53.07 | WinterMute | p_l, that sounds kind of what fidonet used to be :p |
| 02:53.32 | p_l | WinterMute: your nick is greatly relevant to discussion :3 |
| 02:53.57 | summatusmentis | hi derkaiser |
| 02:54.17 | p_l | but yes, something like that, maybe. Or UUCP? :D |
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| 03:10.35 | Azalit | hrm... |
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| 03:12.32 | Azalit | so, I've a question about the ToS--anyone have an answer? |
| 03:12.48 | Landon | question first |
| 03:12.51 | MattNol | I'm curious what the question is, but I doubt I'll have an answer :P |
| 03:13.00 | summatusmentis | what's the trigger? |
| 03:13.02 | summatusmentis | !ask |
| 03:13.02 | socinfo | "ask" is Don't ask to ask, just ask. Meta-questions lead to meta-answers and wasted time. |
| 03:13.04 | summatusmentis | there |
| 03:13.05 | Azalit | ah, just makin sure there was someone there =P |
| 03:13.10 | Azalit | y'all'er so quiet |
| 03:13.17 | summatusmentis | your... face... |
| 03:13.20 | summatusmentis | or something |
| 03:13.24 | Landon | summatusmentis: oh giggidy, I know what this soc money is going for since I have a laptop |
| 03:13.31 | Landon | was just reminded of Sandman |
| 03:13.58 | summatusmentis | Landon: mines going to study abroad payment |
| 03:14.11 | Azalit | well, it goes as follows: In the Student Participant bit, it says that I must be accepted or enrolled in a university (or somesuch) by the 20th...so should I still apply even if I don't know (hoping, but don't know) if I will be accepted? |
| 03:14.33 | summatusmentis | you're coming out of high school? |
| 03:14.37 | Azalit | yip |
| 03:15.01 | Azalit | already got me my first year of CS done, though; working on 260 now, and 2..77 or somethin in the summer |
| 03:15.28 | Azalit | and I even have my first year of writing, too... |
| 03:15.31 | Landon | (course numbers are meaningless :P) |
| 03:15.36 | Azalit | ah, well... |
| 03:15.40 | Landon | even within the same university it seems :\ |
| 03:15.47 | Azalit | first year of CS without the filler classes, then, and starting the second |
| 03:15.53 | Landon | taking a few courses that went from 5xx to 4xx last year |
| 03:15.54 | Landon | o.O |
| 03:15.59 | Azalit | hehe |
| 03:16.19 | disismt | Hi Landon, if I submit a GSoC proposal now, the software will allow me to edit it afterwards no? |
| 03:16.20 | summatusmentis | Azalit: I'd say try applying, but I don't know for sure |
| 03:16.27 | summatusmentis | disismt: yes |
| 03:16.33 | disismt | summatusmentis, ok thanks |
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| 03:16.55 | disismt | summatusmentis, how many applicants till now at OpenAFS? |
| 03:17.02 | Azalit | would it be safe to apply and then...if, for some reason, I don't get accepted, will my application just turn void? |
| 03:17.19 | summatusmentis | disismt: erm.... I know of 4 who have announced themselves |
| 03:17.28 | summatusmentis | Azalit: that would be my guess, but again, I don't know |
| 03:17.38 | summatusmentis | you should talk to lh |
| 03:17.54 | disismt | summatusmentis, only 4, how will openAFS ever get more than 2 slots? |
| 03:17.59 | Azalit | ah, I was just about to ask for the name of one to go to =P |
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| 03:18.26 | summatusmentis | disismt: 4 that have made themselves known in IRC |
| 03:18.32 | summatusmentis | I assume there are others |
| 03:18.33 | Landon | http://lifehacker.com/5188992/create-a-cat-haven-from-ikea-shelves ha, that's great |
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| 03:19.31 | Landon | almost makes me want to get a cat |
| 03:19.32 | disismt | What's the point of keeping a cat on a high shelf? |
| 03:19.35 | Landon | _almost_ |
| 03:19.42 | Landon | disismt: they like aclimbin |
| 03:19.42 | Azalit | good place to store it |
| 03:19.47 | summatusmentis | dude, cats are awesome |
| 03:19.52 | Landon | dogs are awesomer |
| 03:19.59 | disismt | says no polling |
| 03:20.07 | Azalit | rabid gerbils, however, take the cake, methinks |
| 03:20.20 | disismt | monkey |
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| 03:20.30 | Azalit | tasmanian devil? |
| 03:20.41 | Landon | http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2350/img0970f.jpg this guys got a cool idea too |
| 03:20.45 | disismt | hmm... maybe, or an anaconda |
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| 03:21.27 | Azalit | (meh, my cat just came in...can't see her, but I can hear her...cats are supposed to be quiet, right?) |
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| 03:29.44 | irahul | !next |
| 03:29.44 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
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| 03:50.37 | Azalit | hmm...for signing up, should I put in the university I hope to be accepted by, do you think? |
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| 03:50.54 | Azalit | or just stick with what I'm in right now (the high school...) |
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| 04:07.31 | Landon | face |
| 04:07.32 | Landon | palm |
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| 04:24.45 | summatusmentis | Landon: what's your issue? |
| 04:25.12 | Landon | summatusmentis: my boss just told me he had an urgent issue |
| 04:25.18 | Landon | so of course I ask what was up |
| 04:25.35 | Landon | <BOSS> I'm noticing some strange uids on my computer |
| 04:25.42 | Landon | <BOSS> Can you tell me if you made them? |
| 04:25.46 | Landon | <BOSS> sshd:x:113:65534::/var/run/sshd:/usr/sbin/nologin |
| 04:25.51 | Landon | and about a dozen other system uids |
| 04:25.52 | Landon | :p |
| 04:26.05 | summatusmentis | :-D |
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| 04:39.42 | r0bby | HAHHAA |
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| 04:40.15 | r0bby | Landon: Sometimes i wonder where they hire these people... :( |
| 04:40.49 | MattNol | I will say that sometimes after staring at a screen long enough, even the simplest of problems can pass by you |
| 04:41.07 | r0bby | hugs Landon |
| 04:41.17 | r0bby | Landon: I feel for you |
| 04:41.23 | r0bby | sees what #ubuntu is up to |
| 04:41.53 | MattNol | what is this twitter? |
| 04:41.55 | MattNol | :P |
| 04:42.04 | summatusmentis | <3 twitter |
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| 04:43.00 | r0bby | MattNol: an evil conpsiracy which seems to have sucked lh in |
| 04:43.06 | r0bby | we MUST excorcise her! |
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| 04:43.15 | r0bby | EXCORCISE THE DEMONS! |
| 04:43.28 | MattNol | laughs |
| 04:43.57 | summatusmentis | r0bby: don't fight it man |
| 04:44.16 | r0bby | MattNol: I can't remember where that's from |
| 04:44.25 | r0bby | Ace Ventura Pet detective i think |
| 04:44.41 | MattNol | I don't remember that part but that's a great movie |
| 04:45.06 | summatusmentis | urgh, Jim Carrey |
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| 04:45.38 | MattNol | I mean come on, the scene where he's at the insane asylum and plays back the foot ball play backwards? Classic. |
| 04:46.40 | rohananil | feels good that his exams are all over :) |
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| 06:13.24 | jasebo | !timeline |
| 06:13.24 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
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| 06:14.48 | mikv | !orgbylang |
| 06:14.48 | socinfo | "orgbylang" is 2009 list is work in progress: http://delicious.com/gsoc2009/bundle:Languages |
| 06:14.49 | ajhais1 | hi all |
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| 06:24.05 | kblin | ahrg |
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| 06:31.59 | homunq | what does admin/restricted/member/user/public translate to? I have a mentor who can't see/edit a document that is set to member visible/editable... that's a bug, right? |
| 06:32.43 | homunq | admin = admin; restricted = ???; member = mentor; user = logged in; public = anyone..... right??? |
| 06:34.08 | kblin | homunq: sounds like it |
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| 06:36.27 | kblin | homunq: for all I recall, member = mentor/accepted student |
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| 06:36.54 | ojwb | thought member meant mentor for gsoc |
| 06:37.19 | homunq | ah, so restricted = mentor ?? |
| 06:37.57 | homunq | ojwb: certainly it does on the application. "How do you select your members..."... but that doesn't necessarily translate. |
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| 06:38.24 | ojwb | yeah, that's what I have it from |
| 06:38.34 | ojwb | but I think the idea was that was "melange terminology" |
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| 06:42.20 | kblin | ojwb: I think I read some discussion about this on the melange list |
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| 06:43.38 | kblin | homunq: restricted seems to be the right choice, from re-reading the thread |
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| 06:44.59 | kblin | because "if you create a document in the member category now no students will be able to access it since there are no accepted students for your organization, but once students are accepted they will be able to see it." |
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| 06:48.00 | z3r0 | !next |
| 06:48.00 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
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| 06:51.10 | Ryan52 | wonders why people like the !next button so much |
| 06:51.27 | Ryan52 | lh: ping. so what's up wrt me being a mentor? |
| 06:52.16 | z3r0 | Ryan52: Keeps you extra focused on only the thing that needs to be done next, for me at least |
| 06:54.01 | thiago_home | still thinks it should be called "now" |
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| 06:58.54 | kblin | thiago_home: well, it used to be the stuff coming up next |
| 06:59.08 | thiago_home | I know |
| 06:59.16 | thiago_home | and people explained it says which is the next deadline |
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| 07:01.04 | Ryan52 | thiago_home: i agree |
| 07:01.32 | Ryan52 | z3r0: maybe the /topic would be a more suitable place for that information, then.. |
| 07:01.57 | Landon | topc is quite full as it is |
| 07:02.13 | thiago_home | and from experience, people don't read topics |
| 07:02.45 | Landon | my client doesn't even display the topic anymore |
| 07:02.50 | Landon | unless I request it or someone changes it |
| 07:03.17 | z3r0 | Ryan52: probably |
| 07:03.40 | kblin | this _is_ in the topic |
| 07:03.53 | kblin | "Students, apply now!" |
| 07:04.05 | z3r0 | yup |
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| 07:05.03 | Ryan52 | then what's the point of !next? |
| 07:05.15 | Ryan52 | /topic doesn't say the deadline.. |
| 07:05.21 | Ryan52 | anyway, w/e. |
| 07:05.29 | thiago_home | which is exactly what !next is there for |
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| 07:12.17 | rkatiyar | !next |
| 07:12.17 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
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| 07:51.04 | harlan | HOw do I edit the project's Application Template? |
| 07:52.00 | harlan | n/m |
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| 08:08.18 | jorrit | Hi |
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| 08:15.08 | spectie | hey jorrit |
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| 08:55.55 | latitude | !next |
| 08:55.55 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
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| 09:01.09 | casinaroyale | generally how many lines of fresh coding is acceptable in 3 months? |
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| 09:02.38 | jorrit | I wouldn't judge based on lines of code. I would judge based on the desired result. |
| 09:02.47 | jorrit | If someone can do the same in less lines then I prefer the version with less lines :-) |
| 09:02.59 | jorrit | But that's IMHO |
| 09:03.21 | ArthurLiu | casinaroyale, I think the average is about 5kSLOC, but it varies wildly with the project, language, etc |
| 09:04.15 | casinaroyale | ArthurLiu: what about in python ? |
| 09:04.34 | casinaroyale | jorrit: yes, I get it |
| 09:04.38 | ArthurLiu | I have no idea |
| 09:04.42 | ArthurLiu | mine where C++ |
| 09:04.46 | ArthurLiu | *were |
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| 09:04.55 | jorrit | I think that in general Python code uses less lines then C++ code. |
| 09:05.06 | jorrit | You have less language 'overhead'. |
| 09:05.07 | aghisla | remember that less lines of code means less debugging |
| 09:05.22 | casinaroyale | how do you estimate generally if its going to take 3 moths or not? |
| 09:05.54 | aghisla | master foo and the hundred lines - http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ten-thousand.html |
| 09:06.06 | jorrit | That's harder. I think you should consider how much time you should take on that project. And then divide that with some number since you're experienced with the project and the student (most likely) isn't. |
| 09:06.13 | jorrit | the only problem is finding out 'some number' :-) |
| 09:06.22 | aghisla | casinaroyale: I suggest to overestimate the time needed |
| 09:06.29 | ArthurLiu | casinaroyale, experience ? ask your mentors for it |
| 09:07.37 | ahuillet | casinaroyale : how long have you been writing open source? |
| 09:07.47 | casinaroyale | aghisla: lol, nice one |
| 09:07.48 | ahuillet | if you're new to programming, take your own estimation, multiply that by ten |
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| 09:08.17 | ahuillet | with experience, this ratio gets lower and lower |
| 09:08.26 | ahuillet | (though it is usually greater than 1) |
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| 09:08.44 | casinaroyale | ahuillet: I am not new to programming but I am new to python. Now my plan looks like I can finish it within a couple of weeks :) |
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| 09:09.33 | ahuillet | casinaroyale : seriously, size your project so you feel cool with it |
| 09:09.47 | ahuillet | and ask your mentors, they can help you |
| 09:09.58 | ahuillet | they do not know you but they know what your project entails |
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| 09:11.06 | casinaroyale | ahuillet: I understand its a good idea to talk to them and convince them its going to take couple of months :) |
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| 09:11.20 | casinaroyale | do I need to leave time for testing as well? |
| 09:11.27 | ahuillet | unless you write bug free code |
| 09:11.47 | ahuillet | in which case I may have certain projects I'd like to see you work on :P |
| 09:11.56 | ArthurLiu | casinaroyale, the mentors are here to help you |
| 09:12.04 | ArthurLiu | don't even try to hide things from them, it won't help you, believe me |
| 09:12.43 | casinaroyale | ArthurLiu: I am not hiding things |
| 09:13.11 | ArthurLiu | be open with your mentors, that's all I wanted to say |
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| 09:13.44 | casinaroyale | Last year one of my friends got rejected because they said his idea would take too long to implement. Thats why I wanted to be as disrete as possible |
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| 09:14.26 | ArthurLiu | well, take a shorter project |
| 09:14.39 | aghisla | i was about to say that too |
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| 09:14.50 | ahuillet | casinaroyale : your project has to be doable. don't make it too ambitious just so "you are taken" |
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| 09:15.38 | casinaroyale | ahuillet: again there is a trade-off there. yes, I get it. |
| 09:15.38 | ahuillet | usually the mentors will spot it and ditch the application, but if they don't you're going to experience the very unpleasant taste of not being able to do what one promised |
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| 09:17.09 | irahul | !next |
| 09:17.09 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
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| 09:28.12 | NicDumZ | !timeline |
| 09:28.12 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
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| 09:29.28 | kblin | ahrg, hell |
| 09:29.53 | kblin | why do people always need to start powerdrills when I'm trying to get some work done? |
| 09:30.25 | danderson | likely because they're also trying to get work done :) |
| 09:30.30 | ojwb | casinaroyale: if it works for the idea, you can try to structure it with some optional parts if there's time |
| 09:31.27 | ojwb | which shows you've thought about it, and saves a stressful time trying to rejig the goals and decide which to drop if you end up behind |
| 09:32.21 | kblin | le sigh |
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| 09:32.45 | casinaroyale | ojwb: thank you. thats a nice idea |
| 09:33.35 | ojwb | I've heard some people combine two ideas, kind of like a major and a minor |
| 09:33.52 | ojwb | but I've not seen that in practice myself |
| 09:34.22 | casinaroyale | ojwb: I think its best if I talk to my mentors and decide |
| 09:34.54 | disismt | Does a gsoc proposal have a word limit? |
| 09:35.14 | ojwb | disismt: apparently not |
| 09:35.33 | ojwb | there's a character limit of the abstract |
| 09:36.55 | disismt | hmm but no limit for the proposal right? |
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| 09:36.55 | ojwb | casinaroyale: that's a good plan, it's them you have to convince |
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| 09:36.56 | ojwb | disismt: i don't think so |
| 09:37.01 | ojwb | but don't go too mad! |
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| 09:39.49 | ojwb | if you want a very rough idea, our best proposal from last year was 14403 characters, 2047 words |
| 09:40.19 | ojwb | and the best so far this year is 7016 chars, 1200 words currently |
| 09:40.53 | ojwb | some ideas deserve more explanation, and some orgs may expect more perhaps |
| 09:41.41 | kblin | I just got a pretty good proposal that is at 5561 chars, 917 words |
| 09:42.06 | kblin | I'm pretty happy with it, apart from the fact that the student seems to think OpenID is a good authentication system |
| 09:42.22 | kblin | but I'm pretty sure I can fix that |
| 09:42.38 | ojwb | you can change his/her mind, or improve openid? |
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| 09:43.04 | kblin | ojwb: openid is broken by design |
| 09:43.13 | nerus | lh: ping :) |
| 09:43.17 | kblin | ojwb: but I think I can explain that to the student |
| 09:43.23 | ojwb | hasn't really looked at it, but has wondered how it can really work |
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| 09:44.24 | kblin | ojwb: well, it works, apart from the fact that the site you want to authenticate against _should_ direct you to the website of your identity provider, but there's no guarantee that'd happen |
| 09:46.08 | ojwb | doesn't really follow how asking a random website authenticates anything usefully though, but I guess I should go and read up if I really want to know |
| 09:46.11 | kblin | so if you want to log in to my site with a livejournal openid account, I'm supposed to redirect you to livejournal where you can log in |
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| 09:47.00 | kblin | but I doubt most people would notice if I sent them to a site that looked almost like livejournal |
| 09:47.42 | ojwb | or directed them to a site that was http://www.liverjournal.com.mydomain.com/ |
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| 09:47.54 | ojwb | or one of the other many tricks scammers pull |
| 09:48.00 | kblin | yeah, whatever |
| 09:48.16 | kblin | so openid is a nice method to perform identity theft |
| 09:48.25 | ojwb | excellent! |
| 09:48.48 | kblin | but it could also be used to make the site you want to log into seem to attack an arbitrary third site |
| 09:48.50 | ojwb | works better if you use a password filler |
| 09:49.02 | ojwb | cos then having to type in the password by hand raises alarm bells |
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| 09:49.52 | kblin | but if you use a password filler, there's no real need why you'd want to have one account for all sorts of websites |
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| 09:50.42 | ojwb | true |
| 09:50.56 | ojwb | and that's why I haven't really used it! |
| 09:51.10 | ojwb | just seems to make data mining me easier |
| 09:51.18 | kblin | that as well |
| 09:51.22 | ojwb | for no obvious benefit to me |
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| 09:51.49 | kblin | and as I said, you're not paying attention once and someone's able to impersonate you on an arbitrary number of websites |
| 09:52.33 | danderson | the point of openid is to have a single identity across websites, and a central store for various information most websites want |
| 09:52.40 | danderson | if properly implemented, it can work wonders |
| 09:52.52 | danderson | the big problem is that most providers just don't give a shit, as kblin pointed out |
| 09:53.06 | kblin | while this doesn't really hurt me as the person running the web app people want to log into, I refuse to use a system that is broken by design |
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| 09:53.30 | danderson | log in over https and have something that alerts users to phishing attempts, that kind of stuff |
| 09:53.39 | danderson | kblin: broken by design in what way? |
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| 09:54.08 | kblin | danderson: it's doing a dh-exchange in the open |
| 09:54.51 | kblin | the spec suggests hosts should use SSL to talk to each other, but if they did that anyway, there wouldn't be a need to do a dh-exchange in the first place |
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| 09:56.01 | kblin | I'm waiting for the first big wave of spammers to start using their own identity provider to spam websites that allow openid logins |
| 09:56.49 | AlekSi | kblin: nice idea :D |
| 09:57.00 | danderson | kblin: ah, fun. |
| 09:57.06 | AlekSi | too bad this channel is logged |
| 09:57.22 | danderson | didn't really look at that very much. I always assumed that website and provider talked over https |
| 09:57.24 | ojwb | it's an obvious idea |
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| 09:57.29 | danderson | anything less to discuss identity is retarded |
| 09:57.29 | ojwb | had wondered what prevented that |
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| 09:57.43 | danderson | kblin: um, that said... |
| 09:57.52 | kblin | AlekSi: it's unlikely that I'm the first person to think of that |
| 09:57.55 | danderson | kblin: a dh exchange is supposed to be secure in the open, right? |
| 09:58.22 | danderson | it doesn't authenticate the endpoints (so doesn't prevent mitm), but allows to establish a secure channel between two parties |
| 09:59.48 | kblin | danderson: yeah, if you prevent mitm |
| 09:59.55 | danderson | right |
| 10:00.03 | danderson | but in that case it comes back to reimplementing SSL |
| 10:00.05 | kblin | by.. say... using SSL |
| 10:00.18 | kblin | but then what's the point in the DH? |
| 10:00.19 | danderson | but with fewer ciphers and less external scrutiny |
| 10:00.29 | danderson | so, yeah, I agree :P |
| 10:00.58 | kblin | danderson: to me this looks like "we need to have some fancy crypto thing on the whitepaper, let's do DH" |
| 10:01.46 | kblin | danderson: the fun part ist that the user is telling the website where to look for the identity provider |
| 10:02.06 | kblin | so the user has to notice if the website doesn't acutally redirect to the right place |
| 10:02.18 | danderson | well, given that your identity is an URL, that part makes sense |
| 10:02.35 | danderson | the spec should just enforce the use of SSL and certificate verification |
| 10:02.51 | kblin | yeah. that'd probably work |
| 10:02.56 | kblin | but as long as that |
| 10:03.05 | kblin | 's not happening, it's broken by design |
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| 10:14.17 | kblin | a good paper on this is https://www.blackhat.com/presentations/bh-usa-07/Tsyrklevich/Whitepaper/bh-usa-07-tsyrklevich-WP.pdf |
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| 10:14.36 | kblin | I think their conclusion is that it's possible to fix the issues discovered |
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| 10:15.34 | MaNI | I don't see how the whole thing is desirable anyway even if is made properly secure, at least I certainly hope I am never forced into using it |
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| 10:16.56 | kblin | MaNI: well, I wouldn't want to use this myself either, but users tend to ask about this sort of thing once in a while |
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| 10:34.28 | viks | hello how many projects can i apply for? |
| 10:34.43 | thiago | I think you have up to 20 submissions |
| 10:35.08 | ojwb | yes, up to 20 |
| 10:35.26 | ojwb | but you shouldn't try to |
| 10:35.41 | ojwb | if you write 20, they'll all be poor and all be rejected |
| 10:35.55 | ojwb | if you write 2 or 3 good ones, you've a much better chance |
| 10:36.07 | ojwb | one 1 excellent one even |
| 10:36.26 | ojwb | the average last year was just over 2 |
| 10:36.53 | viks | ok thank you everyone |
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| 10:43.29 | skbohra | hi is there any chances of deadline to be extended ;) |
| 10:43.33 | danderson | no. |
| 10:44.03 | danderson | !learn extension as There is no deadline extension planned at this time. You should not assume that there will be one. |
| 10:44.03 | socinfo | The operation succeeded. |
| 10:44.17 | skbohra | thanks danderson |
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| 10:46.57 | casinaroyale | !learn |
| 10:46.57 | socinfo | (learn [<channel>] <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value. |
| 10:47.29 | ahuillet | danderson : no chances that the deadline will be extended, or no deadline extension planned? it's not the same thing |
| 10:47.47 | danderson | !extension |
| 10:47.47 | socinfo | "extension" is There is no deadline extension planned at this time. You should not assume that there will be one. |
| 10:48.01 | MatthewWilkes | ahuillet: The chance is technically nonzero, but practically zero. |
| 10:48.22 | danderson | previous years extensions happened because of major technical issues with the site |
| 10:48.30 | danderson | there will be none this year, thanks to our fearless melange devs |
| 10:48.32 | MatthewWilkes | e.g., if the whole internet broke for 3 days, there might be one |
| 10:48.38 | MatthewWilkes | but it's pretty bloody unlikely |
| 10:48.45 | danderson | and the switch will flip automatically at the deadline time |
| 10:49.00 | ArthurLiu | when was the confiker.C timebomb again ? |
| 10:49.14 | danderson | 2 days from now |
| 10:49.21 | ArthurLiu | there you have it |
| 10:49.32 | danderson | but since it won't do anything (it already triggered once in January and nobody noticed), you lose |
| 10:49.41 | ArthurLiu | :) |
| 10:50.15 | MatthewWilkes | ArthurLiu: I said "the whole internet" - not gonna happen |
| 10:50.57 | danderson | so, yeah |
| 10:50.59 | MatthewWilkes | Same with the org signup, get it in early or you are at risk - what if you had a powercut and couldn't submit? |
| 10:51.08 | danderson | in theory, there could be an extension |
| 10:51.25 | danderson | in practice, if you start counting on the fact that there will be one, you *will* get screwed |
| 10:51.30 | danderson | and you will get no sympathy :) |
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| 10:52.39 | ahuillet | definitely. I was asking in the hope there would be no extension. |
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| 10:57.13 | ojwb | danderson: actually, last year's extension was a deliberate decision because the application period had been shortened and it seemed to be resulting in far fewer applications |
| 10:57.30 | ojwb | but that doesn't apply this year as it's back to about the old length |
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| 10:59.29 | fakeer | hello |
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| 10:59.43 | derkaiser | hello fakeer |
| 11:00.08 | ahuillet | so how do you recognize an IRC newbie ? :) |
| 11:00.29 | ahuillet | join at :57:09, part at :59:35 exactly four seconds after saying hello |
| 11:00.40 | danderson | or someone who's very, very timid |
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| 11:02.12 | ahuillet | I don't think I will ever understand how people can do this and not see how wrong it is. :) |
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| 11:02.56 | ojwb | they don't see because they already left |
| 11:04.48 | atul15 | Can we submit 2 applications for 2 different projects to same organization? |
| 11:04.56 | danderson | yes. |
| 11:05.10 | atul15 | ok...thanx |
| 11:05.37 | BCarlyon|Server | wacks the kettle on |
| 11:05.38 | danderson | note that some orgs may see this as a negative point, unless you discuss it with them first |
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| 11:06.02 | atul15 | why as a negative? |
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| 11:06.30 | danderson | "Look, that guy applied for 3 of our projects, with a very similar application each time, and never talked to us about it" |
| 11:06.31 | Ivanovic | atul15: because most orgs favor talking to you while you work on the application |
| 11:06.36 | danderson | some see it as a lack of focus |
| 11:06.44 | Ivanovic | they will help you with making the app better, too |
| 11:06.48 | danderson | but if you discuss the projects before applying through melange, it shouldn't be a problem at all |
| 11:06.57 | danderson | just be clear that you *are* interested in the two projects |
| 11:07.05 | Ivanovic | (at least that is what we try at wesnoth, talk to the students early to point them to possible problems and stuff like this) |
| 11:07.15 | danderson | so that they know you're not just spamming random proposals to improve your chances |
| 11:07.50 | ahuillet | I wonder how mentors handle this situation (two serious applications for two projects for the same org by the same person) though, did it actually happen to any of you? |
| 11:08.02 | ahuillet | I mean as a mentor you get to prioritize one of the two applications over the other |
| 11:08.32 | danderson | ahuillet: if both are good, it usually depends on other apps to the same org |
| 11:08.41 | danderson | and on the student's preference between the two |
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| 11:09.36 | atul15 | Can an org see what other org proposals I had submitted? |
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| 11:12.01 | ojwb | atul15: not directly |
| 11:12.21 | ojwb | but we can ask you if you have and lying isn't smart |
| 11:12.24 | JorritAfk | atul15: on the other hand you should tell them yourselves. |
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| 11:12.31 | ojwb | indeed |
| 11:12.40 | ojwb | it isn't a negative as such |
| 11:13.11 | schumaml | mentor orgs may even talk to each other! :) |
| 11:13.16 | ojwb | if you get accepted for two projects and you told us we were your only org, we won't be impressed |
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| 11:13.36 | ojwb | there are quite a lot of people who are involved with several orgs too |
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| 11:13.52 | ahuillet | ojwb : isn't it a negative as such? |
| 11:13.58 | ojwb | why should it be? |
| 11:14.08 | ahuillet | because when talking to certain orgs in the past it actually seemed to be |
| 11:14.25 | ojwb | well, I think it's reasonable to hedge your bets a little |
| 11:14.38 | ahuillet | I mean it's used negatively if there is a tie with another student who has not applied to another org |
| 11:14.38 | ojwb | an application can be really good, but lose by bad luck |
| 11:14.49 | Jorrit | Well I can imagine that if an org has two students which are about equally good then it would probably select the student that has no other proposal to another org. |
| 11:15.03 | Jorrit | i.e. if all other criteria are (roughly) equal. |
| 11:15.06 | ojwb | if you were accepted by two orgs, I might let them have you to keep a single application student, perhaps |
| 11:15.16 | kblin | I haven't seen a tie yet |
| 11:15.41 | ojwb | the ranking is suprisingly obvious once you have it right |
| 11:15.42 | Jorrit | kblin: the past years we often had different proposals that we had a hard time choosing. |
| 11:15.59 | Jorrit | kblin: in such situations knowing that the student has proposals for another org might tip the balance. |
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| 11:16.13 | ahuillet | I got the impression that with certain organizations, having applied somewhere else was a sign that you are not genuinely interested in them |
| 11:16.21 | ojwb | fails to really see how that's relevant |
| 11:16.28 | ojwb | unless you feel they have a chance elsewhere |
| 11:16.38 | Jorrit | Well if you have two students A and B interested in the same project. |
| 11:16.40 | ojwb | it's not cheating on you! |
| 11:16.40 | Jorrit | You can only pick one. |
| 11:16.50 | ojwb | actually, you can pick more than one |
| 11:16.53 | Jorrit | Which one are you going to pick if you can't decide based on quality of proposal? |
| 11:16.54 | ojwb | the FAQ explicitly says so |
| 11:16.59 | ojwb | but I don't know any orgs who would |
| 11:17.02 | Jorrit | Yes but that's something we don't want. |
| 11:17.03 | ahuillet | what I am suggesting is that since this is not relevant to the selection process, this information does not need to be disclosed immediately |
| 11:17.11 | Jorrit | Not on the same project. |
| 11:17.15 | ahuillet | especially since it might give the impression that you as a student actually think this is a negative point |
| 11:17.55 | ojwb | your name isn't relevant to the selection process, but we still ask up front |
| 11:18.03 | ahuillet | it is relevant to identifying you |
| 11:18.10 | ojwb | so does your link id |
| 11:18.30 | ahuillet | indeed. knowing whether you have applied somewhere else is not something organizations need :) |
| 11:18.32 | ojwb | my point is really it's just easy to not have to go around asking for information multiple times |
| 11:18.46 | Jorrit | ahuillet: I'm an org admin. |
| 11:18.56 | Jorrit | um sorry, misread. |
| 11:18.58 | ahuillet | note, before this gets personnal, that I have only applied to one organization this year |
| 11:19.11 | ojwb | it becomes relevant if you're selected by more than one org |
| 11:20.12 | kblin | Jorrit: I'd prefer if people were communicating the fact they applied elsewhere |
| 11:20.29 | ojwb | yeah, secrecy isn't necessary |
| 11:20.30 | ahuillet | that's clearly a point where org and student interests differ a bit :) |
| 11:20.38 | ojwb | I don't believe it is |
| 11:20.44 | schumaml | in the past years, I started to ask students about their other applications when it became apparent that their proposals will most likely make our top n |
| 11:20.47 | kblin | Jorrit: then I could talk to the other org to see if the student was going to have a chance at the other org |
| 11:20.51 | Jorrit | kblin: me too. |
| 11:20.56 | Jorrit | yes, we do that too. |
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| 11:21.16 | kblin | which saves time later when we need to do conflict resolution anyway |
| 11:21.43 | ahuillet | good policy |
| 11:21.55 | ojwb | and also not wasting time trying to find an extra mentor, etc |
| 11:22.24 | ojwb | anyway, don't assume that it'll be held against you |
| 11:22.31 | kblin | if the other org tells me the student hasn't got a chance on their list, I won't treat him any different for my decision |
| 11:22.35 | ojwb | unless you've made 19 other applications... |
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| 11:24.07 | kblin | ojwb: well, in that case I expect the application I got would suck anyway |
| 11:24.12 | merlijn | I'm surprised this even is an issue, if students are on par with their proposals - ask them more questions |
| 11:24.43 | ojwb | kblin: true, if I get a good application, and it's one of 20, it must be from a superstar! |
| 11:24.53 | Jorrit | merlijn: last year we got this several times right before the deadline. |
| 11:25.00 | Jorrit | merlijn: no time for further questions (timezones and such). |
| 11:25.12 | Jorrit | We got many new proposals right before the deadline. |
| 11:25.14 | Jorrit | Many very good ones. |
| 11:25.35 | merlijn | isn't there over a week after the deadline to disucss them? |
| 11:26.00 | Jorrit | Not sure how long but yes. There is some time. |
| 11:26.16 | kblin | I know I applied 40 minutes before the deadline closed in 2005, and then dropped dead after two nights of not enough sleep to work on my application :) |
| 11:26.23 | Jorrit | But maybe I'm just bad at picking choices :-) |
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| 11:27.10 | merlijn | kblin: starting late is always fun eh :) |
| 11:27.11 | kblin | which, for the record, is not what I'd recommend people to do these days |
| 11:27.16 | casinaroyale | Will Google go through the proposals of other orgs? |
| 11:27.39 | casinaroyale | in order to decide the number of slots? |
| 11:27.42 | Jorrit | I believe only the ones which the orgs favor. |
| 11:27.45 | Jorrit | But not sure on that. |
| 11:28.05 | Ivanovic | casinaroyale: in general they will have a look at the overall number of applications when deciding on the number of slots |
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| 11:28.11 | kblin | casinaroyale: it's documented on socghop |
| 11:28.18 | merlijn | last year I needed the deadline extension to get my application in, good thing for being on the mailing list this years and being able to start on time :) |
| 11:28.19 | Ivanovic | but they will not have a "real" closer look at all the apps |
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| 11:28.53 | casinaroyale | Ivanovic: thank you :) |
| 11:29.10 | kblin | but basically google trusts us to figure out which proposals we like most |
| 11:30.10 | casinaroyale | kblin: thats what I wanted to know. So, the moral of the story is "Mentors are your gods. Go talk to them" ? |
| 11:30.44 | danderson | they are not gods |
| 11:31.02 | danderson | they have no supernatural origin, and can be mostly explained by modern science |
| 11:31.02 | Ivanovic | not gods, but the ones that will decide |
| 11:31.13 | danderson | they just happen to have more experience than you in this situation |
| 11:31.16 | Ivanovic | danderson: only "mostly" |
| 11:31.18 | Ivanovic | ;) |
| 11:31.23 | danderson | do it's a good idea to talk to them and absorb their wisdom :) |
| 11:31.38 | danderson | Ivanovic: well, the laser eyes are a bit of a mystery still |
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| 11:31.56 | Ivanovic | casinaroyale: i can only speak from wesnoth experiences, but this year we do require talking to students via irc before we consider them |
| 11:31.56 | MatthewWilkes | Ivanovic: Yep, it's still a mystery how Ruby evolved ;) |
| 11:32.12 | Ivanovic | since we had bad experiences last year with a student basically not being reachable via irc |
| 11:32.30 | Ivanovic | and our main means of communication is irc (hey, this is basically the best way for dialog stuff) |
| 11:32.54 | Jorrit | We prefer irc too but given timezones we also tell people to use our development mailing list. |
| 11:33.01 | Jorrit | Most of our team are in Europe. |
| 11:33.05 | Jorrit | And many students are not :-) |
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| 11:33.37 | Ivanovic | Jorrit: most of our team is in europe, too |
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| 11:33.56 | Ivanovic | but we also got several people in the US, so we are spread enough to make this thing work out nicely |
| 11:34.25 | dlewis | hello, I heard that the gsoc deadline was extended, is this true? |
| 11:34.32 | danderson | !extension |
| 11:34.32 | socinfo | "extension" is There is no deadline extension planned at this time. You should not assume that there will be one. |
| 11:34.32 | casinaroyale | Jorrit: Most of the Umit team, I am applying for is also in europe. But from India the time difference is around 5 hours. So, its manageable. |
| 11:34.34 | Jorrit | Ivanovic: btw, nice game you have :-) |
| 11:34.34 | skbohra | nopes |
| 11:34.35 | MatthewWilkes | !nex |
| 11:34.35 | socinfo | Error: "nex" is not a valid command. |
| 11:34.36 | MatthewWilkes | !next |
| 11:34.36 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
| 11:34.45 | Ivanovic | Jorrit: thanks |
| 11:36.48 | dlewis | ok |
| 11:36.50 | dlewis | thanks! |
| 11:37.22 | aghisla | BCarlyon|Server: and the tea? |
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| 11:44.45 | BCarlyon|Server | is ready! |
| 11:45.01 | BarryCarlyon | as in the tea is ready! |
| 11:45.13 | aghisla | great! |
| 11:45.16 | BarryCarlyon | /me hands round cups of normal, mint and green tea. |
| 11:45.34 | thiago | wonders why he focused on "cups" |
| 11:45.36 | thiago | damn, I'm too geeky |
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| 11:46.35 | aghisla | I'll have green tea |
| 11:47.07 | kblin | hehe |
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| 11:47.13 | kblin | sighs |
| 11:47.23 | kblin | the actual writing part of writing a thesis is least fun |
| 11:47.35 | BarryCarlyon | GEEK! |
| 11:47.36 | aghisla | agrees |
| 11:47.44 | BarryCarlyon | oh wait we are all geeks? |
| 11:48.18 | kblin | likely |
| 11:48.35 | aghisla | I suppose I am |
| 11:48.53 | kblin | I wonder if a thesis counts as a non-publication student paper |
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| 11:49.25 | BarryCarlyon | what if its published? |
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| 11:50.53 | kblin | I need to look for a different picture of the TCA cycle |
| 11:51.21 | BarryCarlyon | TCA? |
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| 11:51.45 | derkaiser | what's TCA cycle? |
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| 11:52.01 | BarryCarlyon | hang on I'll google it |
| 11:52.18 | kblin | the citric acid cycle |
| 11:52.18 | aghisla | aka Krebs cycle |
| 11:52.23 | BarryCarlyon | first hit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid_cycle |
| 11:52.55 | derkaiser | I also find it:) |
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| 11:53.23 | kblin | aghisla: I don't use Krebs-cycle, as that's unfair to Szent-Györgyi |
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| 11:54.26 | kblin | hmm, actually, the wikimedia picture of the TCA cycle is pretty good |
| 11:54.32 | aghisla | kblin: I didn't know about Szent-Györgyi, teachers always forgot to mention him |
| 11:55.00 | kblin | aghisla: just my point |
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| 11:55.21 | aghisla | :) |
| 11:55.22 | kblin | aghisla: I suspect because "Krebs" is easier to pronounce and write for most people |
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| 11:57.21 | aghisla | good suspicion - but what about Asian scientists?.. |
| 11:58.59 | kblin | I don't see them having an easier time pronouncing Szent-Györgyi |
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| 12:01.04 | aghisla | i meant european and english-like students find hard to learn asian names |
| 12:01.23 | aghisla | (this can be a long talk) |
| 12:01.50 | ojwb | finds all names hard |
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| 12:06.09 | SmokeyD | hey people. I have a problem I really want to subscribe to the osgeo gsoc project this year. But I just finished my studies in september and didn't have to register for this year anymore because of that from my university. Any chance that I can still get accepted of the project? |
| 12:06.47 | aghisla | seems you are no more a student... |
| 12:07.43 | SmokeyD | aghisla: indeed, although I only finished this university year. Last year I couldn't join because I had to finish my MSc thesis |
| 12:07.57 | SmokeyD | how strict are they on this issue? |
| 12:08.11 | Chainsaw | SmokeyD: Very. You need to have the paperwork to show you are a student. |
| 12:08.18 | BarryCarlyon | very |
| 12:08.23 | SmokeyD | :( |
| 12:08.24 | BarryCarlyon | its a programm for current students |
| 12:08.31 | BarryCarlyon | not finished ones |
| 12:08.37 | nielsgl | Everybody already submitted a proposal |
| 12:08.47 | Chainsaw | SmokeyD: However, you could always talk to the developers of the project you're interested in. You won't be able to participate through Summer of Code, but that doesn't mean you're not welcome as a developer. |
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| 12:09.02 | SmokeyD | Chainsaw: that is true |
| 12:09.18 | Chainsaw | SmokeyD: Especially if it's a proposal that wouldn't otherwise have made it. |
| 12:09.20 | BarryCarlyon | yes that is true, the point of GSoC is to get students involved with open source projects, not the money |
| 12:09.46 | Chainsaw | SmokeyD: I wouldn't go as far as to expect funding, but if you stick with it for the duration of the official Summer of Code there's word of a free shirt. |
| 12:10.12 | SmokeyD | BarryCarlyon: I couldn't care less about the money in general. I mean, it's welcome, but not a requisite. I am more interested in the mentoring part and the organised approach to it |
| 12:10.28 | SmokeyD | Chainsaw: :) |
| 12:10.33 | MarkieMark1 | You know what would be nice, would be to add more places with lower rates of sponsorship |
| 12:10.38 | BarryCarlyon | ah cool |
| 12:10.44 | Chainsaw | MarkieMark1: You can always do that unofficially. |
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| 12:10.52 | Chainsaw | MarkieMark1: I've set bounties for Audacious before. |
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| 12:11.19 | nielsgl | BarryCarlyon: do you know what happends in case I write two proposals to different mentor organizations and both get accepted? |
| 12:11.20 | ojwb | SmokeyD: many open source projects would be happy to provide mentoring-like assistance to someone keen and enthusiastic |
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| 12:12.11 | Chainsaw | SmokeyD: I'd definitely be interested in mentoring you off the record. |
| 12:12.17 | BarryCarlyon | nielsgl depends, I got in on two last year, usually the mentors "fight it out" over you, sometimes you get asked which you want to do. |
| 12:12.30 | Chainsaw | SmokeyD: Do have a look at the Atheme ideas list: http://www.atheme.org/wiki/atheme-project/SummerOfCodeIdeas |
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| 12:12.42 | nielsgl | BarryCarlyon: okay thanks |
| 12:12.52 | aghisla | nielsgl: there is a IRC meeting on 15th for this issues |
| 12:12.54 | Chainsaw | SmokeyD: We've got quite a few applications for the tagging library, but I believe some others have had no write-ins yet. |
| 12:13.07 | aghisla | !timeline |
| 12:13.07 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
| 12:13.30 | nielsgl | I really consider to write a proposal, but I guess it is very difficult to get accepted |
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| 12:13.52 | aghisla | nielsgl: it's worth trying! |
| 12:14.01 | kblin | you'll never find out if you don't try |
| 12:14.23 | MarkieMark1 | Chainsaw: a good idea, as I'm a part-time student I could really enjoy being involved in open source for a few crusts in the longer term |
| 12:14.25 | nielsgl | That is true :-) |
| 12:14.46 | Chainsaw | nielsgl: And if you find anything you like on our ideas list, you can always e-mail me first if you want some private feedback. |
| 12:15.10 | ojwb | !doit |
| 12:15.10 | socinfo | Error: "doit" is not a valid command. |
| 12:15.14 | BarryCarlyon | chainsaw, whats your project? |
| 12:15.20 | ojwb | hmm, what's the link to lh's blog post? |
| 12:15.24 | sfb | lh: ping |
| 12:15.27 | SmokeyD | Chainsaw: sorry I was afk for a sec |
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| 12:15.33 | SmokeyD | that is really generous of you |
| 12:15.34 | SmokeyD | cool |
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| 12:15.53 | Chainsaw | BarryCarlyon: I'm from Atheme, so we have projects for Audacious (music player), Conspire (IRC client) & NASPRO (audio). |
| 12:15.56 | Chainsaw | BarryCarlyon: http://www.atheme.org/wiki/atheme-project/SummerOfCodeIdeas |
| 12:16.29 | ojwb | !doitanyway |
| 12:16.29 | socinfo | "doitanyway" is http://www.hawthornlandings.org/2009/03/getting-started-in-open-source-you-dont.html |
| 12:16.36 | BarryCarlyon | alas outside of my skills set, I'm a web coder primarilly PHP, had fun trying to find a project to do last year, little easier this year, but I will take a look all the same |
| 12:16.38 | ojwb | nielsgl: ^^ |
| 12:17.10 | nielsgl | ojwb: :-) |
| 12:17.57 | ajuonline | yo |
| 12:18.00 | nielsgl | Okay I am gonna check out which projects 'match' with my knowledge and experience |
| 12:19.21 | Chainsaw | BarryCarlyon: If you have javascript experience the 'theme engine' for Conspire may still be of interest. |
| 12:19.34 | sfb | Atheme uses Redmine too, nifty. |
| 12:20.00 | BarryCarlyon | I do, some, the javascript book is under my desk under a pile of Guardian Newspapers. |
| 12:20.13 | BarryCarlyon | would be good to expand my knowledge |
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| 12:22.13 | Chainsaw | Are we allowed to influence student interests a little? |
| 12:22.28 | Chainsaw | It seems I'm getting applications almost exclusively for the tagging library and nearly nowhere else. |
| 12:22.35 | BarryCarlyon | chainsaw that project idea is C not javascript...... |
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| 12:22.56 | BCarlyon|Server | Chainsaw, you are merely advertising lol |
| 12:23.22 | Chainsaw | BCarlyon|Server: "Ideally, you would be using JavaScript (e.g. TraceMonkey) for this task." |
| 12:23.27 | Chainsaw | BCarlyon|Server: Straight from the page. |
| 12:23.44 | BCarlyon|Server | Ah I stopped at the word C |
| 12:23.51 | Chainsaw | BCarlyon|Server: I will bring up the inconsistency to Aerdan. |
| 12:23.58 | BCarlyon|Server | (/me has switched computers on his desk) |
| 12:24.08 | BCarlyon|Server | is it all supposed to be in javascript? |
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| 12:24.15 | Chainsaw | BCarlyon|Server: "Advertising" you say. I'm not sure I follow. |
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| 12:24.41 | kblin | Chainsaw: dunno, I've got the impression that more people will apply for projects percieved as 'easy' |
| 12:24.47 | BCarlyon|Server | A few people have been talking about project ideas they have. |
| 12:24.55 | BCarlyon|Server | They just happen to mentor them to. |
| 12:25.23 | Chainsaw | kblin: I wouldn't say the tagging library is particularly easy. |
| 12:25.23 | kblin | BCarlyon|Server: that's not really surprising, is it? |
| 12:25.32 | kblin | Chainsaw: percieved as |
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| 12:26.10 | BCarlyon|Server | :-) |
| 12:26.23 | KillerX | What's the best way to handle duplicate applications from the same student? |
| 12:26.38 | BCarlyon|Server | I like challenging projects, but finding ones that I can do can be difficult being the web coder I am anywho |
| 12:26.45 | Jorrit | KillerX: just give one a very negative score and keep the other one? |
| 12:26.48 | kblin | BCarlyon|Server: I'm not really qulified to discuss proposals I don't mentor |
| 12:26.55 | BCarlyon|Server | lol |
| 12:27.09 | dho_plan9 | KillerX: the one who is submitting a few doesn't really mind what we accept |
| 12:27.13 | BCarlyon|Server | KillerX, talk to the applicant? |
| 12:27.26 | KillerX | Jorrit: Thanks, that's what I thought, just wanted to see what others are doing |
| 12:27.28 | dho_plan9 | KillerX: I'll talk to you about him in private |
| 12:27.57 | KillerX | dho_plan9: Ok :) We also have this problem in another org. I'm mentoring for (Mozilla) |
| 12:28.06 | dho_plan9 | aha |
| 12:29.08 | Chainsaw | kblin: Anyhow, added "<- we have had many applications for this proposal and encourage you to look at other ideas as well" |
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| 12:29.34 | SmokeyD | are there any osgeo people around? |
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| 12:30.14 | sfb | kblin: Congrats on being accepted again. At the cost of NeL I'm sure, but no hard feelings. (= |
| 12:30.40 | SmokeyD | Chainsaw: your projects seem to be a little out of my league as well. I am a python coder web or gtk like interface) and a web coder. I don't know C really. |
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| 12:30.50 | kblin | sfb: I guess it was hard for new projects to get in this year |
| 12:31.06 | Chainsaw | SmokeyD: Okay. Thanks for looking though. |
| 12:31.21 | sfb | kblin: The only "games" or game frameworks to make it in were existing ones. |
| 12:31.22 | SmokeyD | Chainsaw: thanks for the offer on mentoring otr, but I will try to see if there are people on osgeo who are willing to mentor me otr |
| 12:31.29 | sfb | kblin: I guess Talad was pretty miffed about it. |
| 12:31.30 | Chainsaw | SmokeyD: *nod* |
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| 12:31.38 | sfb | kblin: He should be happy that CS makes it in every year. |
| 12:31.49 | Jorrit | so far... |
| 12:31.55 | Jorrit | But yes, I'm happy :-) |
| 12:31.58 | sfb | Hi Jorrit! |
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| 12:32.32 | sfb | We were excited for the chance to participate. It would have invigorated the community quite a bit. |
| 12:32.36 | Jorrit | Hi sfb |
| 12:32.52 | Jorrit | sfb: what org do you represent? |
| 12:33.16 | Chainsaw | sfb: You could always set some other bounties that you fund yourself though. |
| 12:33.20 | sfb | Jorrit: I was representing NeL. But we were passed on this year. I'm still lingering to talk to lh to get tips/pointers for next year. |
| 12:33.26 | dho_plan9 | !timeline |
| 12:33.26 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
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| 12:33.34 | sfb | Jorrit: I was also going to mentor for OpenNMS but we were passed on this year. |
| 12:33.54 | Jorrit | yes, a lot of orgs had to bite the dust this year. |
| 12:33.59 | sfb | Chainsaw: If we had money to set bounties. A good handful of Ryzom players though have started contributing out of interest. |
| 12:34.03 | sfb | Chainsaw: So that's good news. |
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| 12:34.31 | kblin | sfb: I've got two good applications for WOMBAT, which has the chance of helping more game-related projects |
| 12:34.37 | Jorrit | Personally I think they should perhaps be a bit more open to new orgs (perhaps at the cost of older/better established projects) but I know that that would perhaps cause other problems. |
| 12:34.48 | sfb | kblin: Wombat's non-WFy enough to be useful all over too. |
| 12:35.05 | Chainsaw | Jorrit: It has been explained that very new organisations don't always have a well-established development process. |
| 12:35.08 | BCarlyon|Server | Jorrit, we dont know who applied and didnt get in |
| 12:35.22 | Jorrit | Chainsaw: yes. But now they don't have a chance to proof that they have. |
| 12:35.27 | kblin | sfb: yeah, I know. I gave a lightning talk about it on the last mentor summit |
| 12:35.31 | Chainsaw | Jorrit: Which could result in students feeling helpless. |
| 12:35.32 | sfb | Jorrit: I would agree and the usefulness of some of the orgs accepted is often up for debate among the discarded orgs. So it would just be festering and fostering a spiteful battle. |
| 12:35.32 | Jorrit | BCarlyon|Server: Actually I do. |
| 12:35.37 | Jorrit | BCarlyon|Server: at least for a few :-) |
| 12:35.59 | Jorrit | I agree that it is a lot more certain to go with well established orgs. |
| 12:36.04 | Jorrit | But the first year of GSoC everyone was new. |
| 12:36.14 | Jorrit | And I think it was still considered a success. |
| 12:36.25 | sfb | Well, I can say I understand using a successful former participant. |
| 12:36.30 | Jorrit | And it feels as if they're sticking with more or less the same group as then. |
| 12:36.34 | sfb | OpenNMS struggled last year and learned a lot of hard lessons. |
| 12:36.42 | sfb | So we were much better prepared for this year. |
| 12:37.04 | sfb | kblin: I have a product link for you, I have to find... |
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| 12:37.14 | sfb | kblin: It's what Henri based JUSS on. |
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| 12:39.03 | Jorrit | I'm happy with my own orgs selection. Especially since I think we're probably at the border of what google accepts. As a 3D engine and not a very big project I don't think we are *that* useful for Google. |
| 12:39.17 | BCarlyon|Server | useful for google |
| 12:39.19 | BCarlyon|Server | ? |
| 12:39.24 | BCarlyon|Server | Thats not what GSoC is about. |
| 12:39.34 | Jorrit | BCarlyon|Server: according to their own faq it is one of the criteria they use for selecting orgs. |
| 12:39.36 | Jorrit | Just one of course. |
| 12:39.39 | BCarlyon|Server | GSoC is about getting students into Open Source projects.... |
| 12:39.43 | BCarlyon|Server | Ah. |
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| 12:39.56 | BCarlyon|Server | Not read those FAQs since I'm not a mentor or a project. |
| 12:40.04 | sfb | BCarlyon|Server: Being useful for Google escalates your chances of being selected significantly I hear. (= |
| 12:40.07 | Ivanovic | Jorrit: in how far is a game like Wesnoth usefull for google? |
| 12:40.18 | sfb | Or BZFlag. |
| 12:40.21 | Jorrit | Ivanovic: well I guess they play it all day? |
| 12:40.21 | Ivanovic | does it cheer up the people working at google in their breaks? |
| 12:40.23 | Ivanovic | ;) |
| 12:40.23 | Jorrit | :-) |
| 12:40.41 | BCarlyon|Server | rofl |
| 12:40.49 | BCarlyon|Server | sfb that I didnt know. |
| 12:41.01 | BCarlyon|Server | Explains all the python stuff then |
| 12:41.39 | kblin | heck, if I was running a show like that, I'd pour money where I can get benefits from as well :) |
| 12:42.32 | Ivanovic | kblin: i think one benefit is renown in the community of coders |
| 12:42.32 | sfb | kblin: Here's something that you may want to reference as you build Wombat. |
| 12:42.37 | sfb | kblin: http://www.alienbrain.com/ |
| 12:42.53 | sfb | kblin: That was the basis and inspiration for JUSS, which is very similar in goals to Wombat. |
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| 12:44.38 | anirudh | is wondering how the Gsoc students spend their money ! hehe |
| 12:44.51 | BCarlyon|Server | I paid off my credit cards, and put the rest into savings. |
| 12:44.53 | sfb | anirudh: Room+board, student loans, beer bongs. |
| 12:45.07 | kblin | sfb: I know alienbrain.. or at least their demo vids |
| 12:45.14 | aghisla | contributed to family budget |
| 12:45.39 | anirudh | good :) |
| 12:46.09 | kblin | sfb: adobe has a similar product as well, but yeah, that's the segment we're sort of aiming for |
| 12:46.14 | sfb | kblin: Good deal. We trialed it for a bit. It was very very nice. |
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| 12:47.36 | kblin | hi sverre |
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| 12:48.56 | kblin | sfb: hmm, they seem to have a free trial, I need to check that out next weekend |
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| 13:04.46 | atulagrwl | ~seen Pinaraf |
| 13:04.49 | ibot | pinaraf <n=moi@ALille-156-1-135-181.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr> was last seen on IRC in channel #kde, 59d 20h 30m 4s ago, saying: 'pinotree: message for you sir :)'. |
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| 13:12.10 | AlHafoudh | hi all |
| 13:12.22 | anirudh | heya |
| 13:12.29 | BCarlyon|Server | Afternoon |
| 13:12.30 | AlHafoudh | is it a problem when I will be enrolled again in september 2009 ? |
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| 13:12.55 | casinaroyale | AlHafoudh: enrolled in what? |
| 13:13.04 | AlHafoudh | sorry, at university |
| 13:13.05 | anirudh | wants to have a mugga beer and go to party |
| 13:13.15 | AlHafoudh | to participate on gsoc |
| 13:13.22 | anirudh | yeah i guess so |
| 13:13.24 | BCarlyon|Server | No. |
| 13:13.36 | anirudh | are you sure ? |
| 13:13.48 | anirudh | :D |
| 13:13.48 | BCarlyon|Server | I will be enrolling as a student again in september 2009 |
| 13:13.49 | casinaroyale | AlHafoudh: what do you mean enrolled again? |
| 13:14.06 | smtms | BCarlyon|Server, you are not student now? |
| 13:14.12 | BCarlyon|Server | I am. |
| 13:14.19 | BCarlyon|Server | Hence I said again smtms |
| 13:14.24 | AlHafoudh | i had to leave school for a semester because iam changing schools |
| 13:15.12 | BCarlyon|Server | I don't think that will be a problem. |
| 13:15.13 | casinaroyale | may be some guy from google can address your query correctly |
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| 13:15.36 | smtms | I think the "admitted" rules apply |
| 13:15.50 | BCarlyon|Server | Give it 3hours they will be awake by then |
| 13:15.55 | AlHafoudh | casinaroyale: so I should write an email to google? |
| 13:16.10 | BCarlyon|Server | AlHafoudh, either wait or post it to the mailing list |
| 13:16.21 | AlHafoudh | ok |
| 13:16.23 | casinaroyale | better post it to the mailing list |
| 13:16.24 | AlHafoudh | thanks |
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| 13:34.58 | ajuonline | !timelines |
| 13:34.58 | socinfo | Error: "timelines" is not a valid command. |
| 13:35.00 | ajuonline | !timeline |
| 13:35.00 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
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| 13:38.02 | atul15 | Is there somewhere examples of proposals accepted in previous years? |
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| 13:40.44 | aghisla | apple time |
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| 13:50.24 | cbx33 | Hi all, |
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| 13:50.41 | cbx33 | is there any statistics regarding how many students apply vs how many places there are |
| 13:50.51 | cbx33 | I think I'm right in thinking there are 1000 places this year |
| 13:51.00 | cbx33 | What kind of ratio do we expect? |
| 13:51.11 | thiago | 1:10 |
| 13:51.44 | cbx33 | thiago, got any citation for that? |
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| 13:52.11 | MatthewWilkes | android.hardware.SensorManager.GRAVITY_DEATH_STAR_I - Awesome! |
| 13:52.43 | thiago | yeah |
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| 13:53.36 | Jorrit | With our project it has always been more then 1/10. I guess more like 1/7 or 1/8. |
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| 13:53.45 | Jorrit | But I guess it is one of the factors. |
| 13:54.07 | Jorrit | I also think that they try to listen to the number of slots you request as much as they can. |
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| 13:54.12 | Jorrit | Some projects don't want as many. |
| 13:54.20 | cbx33 | ok |
| 13:54.29 | cbx33 | yeh I meant kinda overall |
| 13:54.34 | cbx33 | the entire GSoC project |
| 13:55.34 | thiago | we had 1:5 one year in KDE |
| 13:56.43 | cbx33 | that's low |
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| 14:04.06 | sfb | Jorrit: Agreed. We had 8 last year and decided that we only wanted 5 this year. |
| 14:04.19 | sfb | Jorrit: Not all communities have members that have time/skills to be mentors. |
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| 14:04.42 | sfb | Jorrit: Not that I should be addressing you specifically, I guess. (= |
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| 14:07.22 | Jorrit | sfb: no problem :-) |
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| 14:12.10 | antarus | man t hese therads are long winded ;p |
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| 14:12.48 | sfb | therads? |
| 14:12.58 | sfb | Oh, threads. |
| 14:14.25 | antarus | sorry |
| 14:14.27 | antarus | pre-coffee ;) |
| 14:15.08 | sfb | haha |
| 14:15.11 | sfb | I know the feeling. |
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| 14:18.08 | Jorrit | Time to go |
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| 14:20.25 | pavelo | !timeline |
| 14:20.25 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
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| 14:21.33 | summatusmentis | hi all |
| 14:21.54 | BCarlyon|Server | waves |
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| 14:23.43 | borja | hey summatusmentis |
| 14:23.50 | BCarlyon|Server | tea sir? |
| 14:23.54 | summatusmentis | how're you borja ? |
| 14:24.07 | borja | pretty good |
| 14:24.15 | borja | haven't had my morning espresso yet, though |
| 14:24.19 | borja | so my brain is a bit sluggish |
| 14:24.28 | summatusmentis | BCarlyon|Server: nah, I'll get everyone sick |
| 14:24.40 | BCarlyon|Server | o.0 |
| 14:24.49 | summatusmentis | borja: my brain is so sluggish, but that won't change |
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| 14:24.58 | borja | heh |
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| 14:25.57 | aghisla | finds unittesting amusing |
| 14:26.02 | summatusmentis | borja: pm? |
| 14:26.24 | borja | sure |
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| 14:29.05 | Landon | BCarlyon: nice projects page :o |
| 14:29.08 | Landon | I wish mine was as spiffing |
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| 14:29.59 | summatusmentis | like a personal page? |
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| 14:33.47 | BCarlyon|Server | Thanks Landon |
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| 14:34.36 | NicDumZ | !timeline |
| 14:34.36 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
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| 14:34.54 | MatthewWilkes | The Globus one is nice and succinct |
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| 14:35.20 | Guest28838 | any way to contact xelerence org through irc |
| 14:35.54 | borja | MatthewWilkes: +1 ;-) |
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| 14:36.52 | MatthewWilkes | borja: I was just looking at it as I've been plugging SoC at my uni and offered to give people feedback on apps before submitting them - got taken up by someone applying to you guys |
| 14:37.13 | borja | MatthewWilkes: cool |
| 14:37.44 | summatusmentis | there are apprently multiple students applying to GSoC from my school |
| 14:37.52 | summatusmentis | as compared to just me last year |
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| 14:39.00 | thiagoss | summatusmentis, same here, I was the only one applying last year. This year I organized a small presentation about gsoc and I've already talked to about 10 students that are applying now :-) |
| 14:39.42 | nielsgl | thiagoss: nice, wish they'd do it at my uni as well |
| 14:39.46 | summatusmentis | thiagoss: I haven't done anything, mostly because I'm way too busy |
| 14:40.04 | summatusmentis | but apparently there's a reasonable amount of interest w/in csci this year |
| 14:40.18 | BarryCarlyon | What do people think to http://web.archive.org/web/20070323101711/http://www.lsweb.org.uk/ I desighned that a few years back |
| 14:40.28 | BarryCarlyon | whoops wrong channel |
| 14:40.38 | Guest28838 | anyone please reply |
| 14:41.05 | Guest28838 | what is the way to contact xelerance org |
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| 14:41.21 | summatusmentis | http://socghop.appspot.com/org/show/google/gsoc2009/xelerance |
| 14:41.27 | summatusmentis | Guest28838: did you even look? |
| 14:41.32 | thiagoss | summatusmentis, send mails to your university mailing lists, most of the students here didn't even know the program existed |
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| 14:41.48 | borja | Guest28838: If they don't list an IRC channel there, then it probably means they prefer to be contacted another way, such as mailing lists |
| 14:41.55 | summatusmentis | thiagoss: I think one of our proffessors did that |
| 14:42.13 | summatusmentis | Guest28838: that was the first hit I got when I googled 'xelerance irc' |
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| 14:43.46 | lh | Guest28838: there should be contact information listed on their ideas page |
| 14:43.55 | hypa7ia | summatusmentis: i'm one of the xelerance mentors, what's up? |
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| 14:44.18 | summatusmentis | hypa7ia: Guest28838 was looking for someone |
| 14:44.50 | hypa7ia | hey Guest28838 , as indicated on our org page, our channel is #xelerance-gsoc |
| 14:44.56 | kblin | morning lh. How's life? |
| 14:45.11 | lh | kblin: great thanks how are you? |
| 14:45.13 | BCarlyon|Server | puts the kettle on |
| 14:45.20 | aghisla | hello lh |
| 14:45.31 | lh | BCarlyon|Server: awesome! |
| 14:45.33 | lh | aghisla: hello |
| 14:46.00 | kblin | lh: Fine, fighting with a mostly empty thesis document, though. |
| 14:46.16 | kblin | I'd rather go write some cool code |
| 14:46.17 | sfb | lh: hi |
| 14:47.12 | BCarlyon|Server | Kettls Boiled! Time for tea all round. |
| 14:47.15 | lh | kblin: that sounds painful |
| 14:47.17 | lh | sfb: hello |
| 14:47.22 | lh | yay tea! |
| 14:47.40 | aghisla | and biscuits for everyone |
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| 14:48.23 | MatthewWilkes | tea? |
| 14:48.26 | borja | kblin: "thesis" as in "PhD dissertation"? |
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| 14:48.59 | kblin | borja: ha, I wish.. M.Sc. thesis |
| 14:49.56 | nielsgl | kblin: which topic? |
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| 14:50.21 | borja | kblin: ah, ok... I'm part of the brotherhood of suffering PhD students, and I'll have to start writing my dissertation soon ;-) Thankfully, it involves writing a fair amount of code. |
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| 14:50.46 | kblin | nielsgl: Protein engineering on Aconitases |
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| 14:51.36 | kblin | borja: I'm pretty much done, just waiting for lab results, so I should get started on the actual writing part, and that's less fun than the other parts |
| 14:52.20 | borja | kblin: yeah, I'm still working on the coding part; I'm a bit of a documentation junkie, so I don't mind writing, but it's certainly not as much fun as coding |
| 14:52.26 | mercurysquad | some organizations are asking totally inconsequential questions on their application template.. is this really reasonable? :-\ |
| 14:52.41 | kblin | mercurysquad: like what? |
| 14:52.55 | kblin | "How long is a piece of string?" |
| 14:53.04 | mercurysquad | i have no intention to apply for musicbrainz but they ask 'are ponies better or mooses' and encourage some research into the musicbrainz community |
| 14:53.07 | MatthewWilkes | lh: Did you see that picture I sent over twitter on saturday, btw? |
| 14:53.14 | mercurysquad | on first look it promotes community feeling |
| 14:53.41 | Guest28838 | hey hypa7ia |
| 14:53.46 | BCarlyon|Server | kblin, 12" |
| 14:53.58 | lh | MatthewWilkes: no, do you have a link? |
| 14:54.03 | mercurysquad | but i think it's more like excluding people not already in the community, recommending applicants to go through hoops to satisfy requirements that are not relevant at all for the project(s) |
| 14:54.13 | summatusmentis | mercurysquad: part of it might be your standard "ask a question to throw the applicant off" |
| 14:54.32 | lh | mercurysquad: i would think of it more as a way to examine your thought processes |
| 14:54.37 | kblin | prefers mooses |
| 14:54.48 | borja | summatusmentis: actually, the University of Chicago college application is infamous for including that kind of questions, like "Tell us how you feel about Mondays" |
| 14:54.48 | MatthewWilkes | lh: http://twitter.com/matthewwilkes/status/1407266838 |
| 14:55.34 | summatusmentis | borja: to join peer mediation in high school they asked "if you had to have sex with any animal on the planet, which would it be, and why?" |
| 14:55.35 | borja | summatusmentis: http://the-editors.blogspot.com/2006/07/this-years-uncommon-application-essay.html |
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| 14:56.24 | kblin | borja: Just to quote that famous blues song: "they call it stormy monday, but tuesday's just as bad" ;) |
| 14:56.26 | schumaml | "Finally, are Moose or Ponies better? (Think carefully. A bit of basic research about the MusicBrainz community will give you the answer that will likely win points with the people who evaluate your application)" |
| 14:56.50 | mercurysquad | i guess so. their gsoc ideas page says "gsoc will allow musicbrainz hackers to get paid for hacking on the code" as its first sentence :P even strengthening the vibe i got. |
| 14:57.01 | schumaml | translates to: "do you care enough about your proposal to actually invest some time to browse our websites?" |
| 14:57.06 | ajuonline | hails lh |
| 14:57.06 | ajuonline | :D |
| 14:57.27 | lh | ajuonline: hey ajay! |
| 14:58.00 | lh | MatthewWilkes: omg. i should go check!! |
| 14:58.18 | antarus | summatusmentis: goat |
| 14:58.22 | antarus | summatusmentis: next question? |
| 14:58.29 | summatusmentis | antarus: you never explained why |
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| 14:58.49 | ajuonline | lh: good morning :D |
| 14:58.56 | kblin | mercurysquad: actually dump "musicbrainz moose" or "musicbrainz pony" into google and click "I'm feeling lucky" |
| 14:59.09 | MatthewWilkes | lh: I'm not misremembering am I? It looks the same to me! |
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| 15:00.36 | mercurysquad | kblin: haha :) i'd say the question is even more irrelevant then if the answers are a couple of google searches away |
| 15:00.44 | summatusmentis | musicbrainz looks like a goofy community |
| 15:00.52 | mercurysquad | anyway this was only an observation, not a complaint |
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| 15:01.35 | lh | MatthewWilkes: it is the same |
| 15:01.35 | summatusmentis | !slots |
| 15:01.35 | socinfo | "slots" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/studentallocations |
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| 15:02.45 | mercurysquad | i also just spent a week discussing and crafting my proposal which was taken straight from freebsd ideas page and for which i think i've well qualified, only to be left utterly confused by the community about whether it's a good or desirable idea at all :-\ |
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| 15:03.23 | mercurysquad | arhh. gsoc app process is stressful. :) |
| 15:03.30 | summatusmentis | mercurysquad: wouldn't talking to the community first reduce that chance? |
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| 15:04.49 | mercurysquad | summatusmentis: yes that's why i sent the proposal to the mailing list intead (haven't applied yet) and now i'm not applying because it's apparently unneeded |
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| 15:05.35 | mercurysquad | so 1 week after the apps have started i'm starting from scratch. lol |
| 15:05.36 | summatusmentis | mercurysquad: if it's on their ideas page, I think it's work applying to still... unless they've explicitly "don't apply" |
| 15:05.46 | mansu | is anyone for apache couchdb project around? |
| 15:06.10 | antarus | summatusmentis: long long ago in Gentoo land we had jforman, who apparently loved goats. Jforman then retired, so I had to take his place as goat lover |
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| 15:06.15 | antarus | http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo/misc/dev-pics/antarusgoatse.jpg?view=markup |
| 15:06.18 | antarus | I even have pics |
| 15:06.29 | summatusmentis | antarus: can I just say, hot |
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| 15:06.49 | summatusmentis | !anyone |
| 15:06.49 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
| 15:06.51 | mercurysquad | well an alternative idea was suggested to me, but i'm not well qualified for it. so i'm still debating |
| 15:06.52 | summatusmentis | mansu: ^^ |
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| 15:07.54 | mansu | summatusmentis, cool thx |
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| 15:07.58 | dannyb | yawn |
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| 15:10.03 | kblin | were the musicbrainz people the ones giving the talk about motivating people with chocoloate on the mentor summit? |
| 15:10.26 | aghisla | chocolate is very motivating |
| 15:10.29 | thiago | doesn't remember that |
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| 15:10.55 | kblin | goes to look up the schedule |
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| 15:11.16 | pavelo | goes to motivate himself |
| 15:11.47 | aghisla | should do something useful, for example go home before it starts raining |
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| 15:12.17 | klange | I have some questions that aren't well answered on the site: I am a high school senior, graduating in a few months and already accepted at a number of colleges. As I haven't actually selected one at this time, I don't quite know what to put down on the form. |
| 15:12.35 | thiago | klange: you need to provide proof of enrollment later on |
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| 15:12.56 | summatusmentis | iirc, by Apr. 20? |
| 15:13.09 | mercurysquad | oh btw i have another question |
| 15:13.13 | klange | On top of that, I'm already technically a student at a college through a post-secondary program; I could put this college down on the form, but I have no "major" or "graduation date", etc. |
| 15:13.15 | mercurysquad | administrative issue |
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| 15:13.49 | summatusmentis | !faq |
| 15:13.49 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/faqs |
| 15:14.23 | mercurysquad | If an accepted student is unable to provide proof of student status on april 20, is the entire project dropped, or can the student continue according to schedule and get paid after furnishing the proper documents at a later date during gsoc? |
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| 15:14.57 | lh | mercurysquad: since we cannot ask for proof until a student is accepted, they have a few days to get it to us |
| 15:15.32 | klange | Nothing in the FAQs has actually answered my question: What do I put on this registration form for the "required" fields under "Education" (which is all of them...)? |
| 15:15.32 | JunK-Y | if i see my proposal in "List my Student Proposals", will it be send automatiquely to the project? |
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| 15:15.35 | summatusmentis | iirc, I didn't provide proof until well into the bonding period last year |
| 15:15.54 | summatusmentis | JunK-Y: if you've already published your app, then yes |
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| 15:16.21 | JunK-Y | summatusmentis: how can i confirm that it's really published? |
| 15:16.26 | kblin | hm, there's no name associated with that talk |
| 15:16.45 | lh | klange: http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/userguide#depth_students |
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| 15:17.19 | mercurysquad | lh: great, thanks. i'm on a year off college meaning i'm not enrolled this year, but am going back in august. the enrollment confirmation for the fall sem probably wont be available until like May i guess. |
| 15:17.19 | summatusmentis | klange: lh would know, I was linking to FAQ for myself :) |
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| 15:18.10 | lh | mercurysquad: we can figure that sort of thing out |
| 15:18.45 | mercurysquad | phew that's one less thing to worry about :) |
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| 15:19.25 | MatthewWilkes | hmm, Python is switching to using Hg for versioning |
| 15:19.34 | klange | just wants to know what to enter in a few text fields when he has no information to enter... |
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| 15:19.53 | kblin | MatthewWilkes: hg is written in python, iirc |
| 15:19.54 | lh | klange: for example? |
| 15:20.09 | MatthewWilkes | kblin: It is |
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| 15:20.29 | kblin | MatthewWilkes: so that's not too surprising |
| 15:20.37 | klange | Major Subject: At the only institution I can enter, I have no "major" - it's one class. Alternatively, I could enter my field of study when I actually enter college in the fall |
| 15:20.49 | MatthewWilkes | kblin: So is bzr, and git is (from my subjective view) winning the war |
| 15:20.57 | lh | klange: write in none |
| 15:21.01 | lh | klange: next? |
| 15:21.44 | lh | goes to get a coffee, bbialb |
| 15:21.46 | klange | Graduation year: not quite valid for something you don't graduate from. Should I enter my expected graduation date for my undergraduate program? |
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| 15:22.16 | lh | klange: sure |
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| 15:22.20 | kblin | MatthewWilkes: two of the three projects I work on use git, the third is in the process of migrating from CVS to git, so I wouldn't mind :) |
| 15:22.22 | klange | Alright, thanks :) |
| 15:22.28 | lh | klange: np |
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| 15:25.42 | kblin | kicks himself back to his editor window |
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| 15:27.46 | klange | Sad to see that, once again, we're [Compiz] not participating in GSoC once again... So many possibilities existed for student projects... |
| 15:28.56 | mercurysquad | goes both ways ;) lots of student proposals dont get accepted either |
| 15:29.10 | schumaml | klange: fixing compiz to work nice with applications that demand more than bling? ;) |
| 15:29.13 | schumaml | runs |
| 15:29.21 | kblin | hehe |
| 15:29.24 | klange | chases after schumaml... |
| 15:29.35 | dho_plan9 | I was avoiding saying anything about bling, but thank you |
| 15:29.37 | dho_plan9 | ducks |
| 15:30.09 | mercurysquad | i just dislike the way compiz handles multiple viewports. the rest is fine |
| 15:30.09 | ahuillet | bling? |
| 15:30.17 | mercurysquad | kwin handles it how it's supposed to be |
| 15:30.23 | antarus | ahuillet: urbandictionary.com |
| 15:30.30 | antarus | ahuillet: do a search for bling if you are curious |
| 15:30.51 | ahuillet | oh, same as in french, ok |
| 15:31.20 | dho_plan9 | You say ``bling'' in French? |
| 15:31.31 | ahuillet | "bling bling" actually yes |
| 15:31.38 | dho_plan9 | HAH, best news of the day. |
| 15:31.42 | kblin | :) |
| 15:31.51 | ahuillet | the term saw its use skyrocket in newspapers soon after our new president was elected |
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| 15:32.14 | klange | mercurysquad: KWin has workspaces, Compiz has viewports, it's not handling something "right", it's doing two completely different things. |
| 15:33.11 | mercurysquad | klange: i disagree, they are doing exactly the same thing but in two totally different ways |
| 15:33.29 | summatusmentis | ahuillet: 'bling bling' is used in french? I apologize |
| 15:33.47 | summatusmentis | the US should not be spreading our terminology that originated from rap music |
| 15:34.01 | klange | We have definitions for these things in the window management world, and we're doing viewports correctly, it's the user-level applications that are doing things wrong. |
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| 15:36.19 | schumaml | at least compiz seems to handle the utility window hint now |
| 15:36.20 | mercurysquad | klange: on a technical level, maybe. but from a user's point of view, the gnome panels move with the viewports in compiz while they do not in kwin. i don't know if the userspace apps behave any different based on what window manager is being used. you can switch from compiz to kwin and the panels stay while regular app windows scroll past.. |
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| 15:36.51 | klange | Have you seen how we manage these things in 0.8.4? |
| 15:37.06 | mercurysquad | klange: things might have changed since last year though. last compiz i used was 0.7 iirc |
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| 15:37.27 | schumaml | we shouldn't turn this channel into a compiz channel, though |
| 15:37.35 | klange | -> #compiz + #compiz-dev |
| 15:37.53 | klange | You won't find me there right now, though, I'm busy at the moment. |
| 15:38.39 | klange | Ug, I want to make Nautilus viewport aware once and for all, but with gnome-shell, such an idea probably won't be accepted... |
| 15:42.05 | maruel | moans about lack of utf8 support in gsoc form... |
| 15:42.15 | klange | Ah, I love the abundance of GUI ideas with high priorities... |
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| 15:42.33 | lh | maruel: please to blame american shipping companies |
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| 15:44.26 | sanjiv | !timeline |
| 15:44.26 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
| 15:44.42 | klange | Mono: Improve and extend the logging profiler GUI: Definitely within my grasp... |
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| 15:45.17 | Ivanovic | lh: were you able to help Sapient with the google mentor group? |
| 15:45.25 | klange | Well, four days to actually pick something and get my real application written... |
| 15:45.30 | lh | Ivanovic: not yet let me take a look |
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| 15:45.46 | Ivanovic | cf about 18h ago |
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| 15:46.16 | Ivanovic | and don't worry, i will keep him up to date with all the stuff he has to / should know as mentor |
| 15:46.24 | Ivanovic | ;) |
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| 15:46.46 | lh | Ivanovic: done |
| 15:47.02 | Ivanovic | thanks |
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| 15:48.06 | Ivanovic | told him to ping me if it is not working as expected (that is he is not around atm but reads the logs of our -dev chan) |
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| 15:49.21 | lh | Ivanovic: it's cool, he sent me a pm |
| 15:49.27 | Ivanovic | ah, okay |
| 15:50.10 | Ivanovic | lh: regarding the "low numer/quality of apps so far": from wesnoth i can just say that in melange only a tiny fraction of our real applications is listed so far |
| 15:50.37 | maruel | maruel |
| 15:50.39 | maruel | oops |
| 15:50.43 | Lennie | that's you |
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| 15:51.01 | Lennie | Ivanovic, does that have a reason? |
| 15:51.05 | Ivanovic | we got >30 that expressed interest in working with wesnoth on SoC (added this amount of users in our forum group for it) and so far we have ~20 applications listed in our wiki (those will submit it in melange once they are really satisfied) |
| 15:51.05 | lh | Ivanovic: i figured that was the case, lots of folks have gotten more efficient about getting students to contact them before applying |
| 15:51.11 | maruel | at least this time I haven't typed my password... |
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| 15:51.29 | Ivanovic | cf http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeIdeas#GSoC_Student_pages |
| 15:51.32 | Lennie | Ivanovic, cool :) |
| 15:51.45 | NicDumZ | yes, the # of apps for wesnoth is quite impressive :) |
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| 15:51.48 | Ivanovic | many of those proposals already really good (and of course we still work with the students on further improving them) |
| 15:52.01 | lh | awesome |
| 15:52.37 | mercurysquad | has google considered making public the # of applicants (maybe even abstracts/title) for organizations during the app period so applicants can gauge how competitive each org/idea is? could perhaps help people in refocussing their apps where they have a higher chance of acceptance, for people who are still on the fence on where/what to apply for |
| 15:52.53 | Ivanovic | and at the end the hard time will come again when it is about time to decide who will get the slots... |
| 15:53.11 | Ivanovic | mercurysquad: this does not help at all |
| 15:53.13 | lh | mercurysquad: no, we want students to apply to work on something they are passionate about |
| 15:53.38 | mercurysquad | i see |
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| 15:53.40 | NicDumZ | mercurysquad, the number of apps filled in melange is not really reflecting the real-time number of students building their applications anyway |
| 15:53.57 | Ivanovic | mercurysquad: so far in melange (the only data google really has), we only have 12 applications listed |
| 15:54.02 | Ivanovic | but we will get a higher number... |
| 15:54.17 | NicDumZ | I think a good part of students refine, improve their applications with the community, and submit them 1 or 2 days before the official limit |
| 15:54.37 | sfb | lh: Am I still "in queue" to get some feedback about why NeL was passed on as an organization? |
| 15:54.41 | Ivanovic | NicDumZ: though it is still possible to refine them after they are initially submitted |
| 15:55.09 | NicDumZ | true :) |
| 15:55.19 | lh | sfb: lol. no, sorry, i need to get back to you. could you shoot me an email? |
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| 15:56.07 | kblin | Ivanovic: only 12? |
| 15:56.09 | pavelo | only 12? zomg, i thought i was gonna be the last one to sumbit |
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| 15:56.42 | Ivanovic | kblin: in our wiki we got 21, in the forum group we got 30 users, not all of the 12 are listed in our wiki |
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| 15:57.43 | pavelo | that wouldn't be some publicly readable wiki, would it ? |
| 15:58.00 | Ivanovic | pavelo: it is |
| 15:58.06 | pavelo | where? |
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| 15:58.11 | Ivanovic | and we are not afraid of other users reading the ideas |
| 15:58.16 | Ivanovic | http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SummerOfCodeIdeas#GSoC_Student_pages |
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| 15:58.35 | mercurysquad | last year some orgs (like audacity) had wiki pages where potential applicants listed their project ideas. i guess it's up to the organizations if they encourage it |
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| 15:58.46 | Ivanovic | especially since we only "really" consider those, that we communicated with |
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| 15:59.32 | Ivanovic | since we think that chances to not communicate well with a student later on are too big when we are not able to communicate with them right from the start |
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| 16:00.56 | pavelo | oh, that's 12 for your org. i thought it was 12 _in total_..... it did seem kinda small number |
| 16:01.01 | pavelo | goes hide in the corner now |
| 16:01.07 | Ivanovic | no, only our org |
| 16:01.15 | Ivanovic | i don't have any data about other orgs |
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| 16:02.41 | defc0n | hi all |
| 16:02.54 | Ivanovic | hi defc0n |
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| 16:05.39 | maco | lh: hey leslie, it's pink's student, can i pm you? |
| 16:06.36 | kblin | grumbles |
| 16:06.43 | kblin | stupid paper... |
| 16:06.48 | Lennie | writing one |
| 16:06.49 | Lennie | reading one? |
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| 16:07.27 | Raim | hm, who has written the user's guide? |
| 16:07.28 | Raim | "all 20 to one organization or 2 to four different organization or only one to one organization" |
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| 16:07.32 | kblin | Lennie: trying to download one |
| 16:07.38 | Lennie | it fails? |
| 16:07.44 | kblin | Lennie: yeah |
| 16:07.45 | Raim | how would you submit 2 proposals to four organizations? ;) |
| 16:07.57 | Lennie | can I try it for ya ^_^? |
| 16:08.00 | kblin | Raim: 2 each? |
| 16:08.15 | kblin | Lennie: thanks, but it just started working |
| 16:08.19 | kblin | goes and prints |
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| 16:08.23 | Lennie | kblin, k |
| 16:08.24 | Raim | kblin: ah :) |
| 16:08.36 | maco | Raim: the same vague proposal to two different ones? |
| 16:08.48 | maco | i mean, it probably wouldnt work well, but... |
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| 16:09.31 | ashishpaliwal | Raim: 2 each |
| 16:09.35 | ashishpaliwal | dude |
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| 16:10.39 | mercurysquad | Raim: it's possible, i saw about the same topic listed in both netbsd and freebsd, and it should easily apply to openbsd and dragonflybsd too. it's possible to send the exact same proposal to all of them, though i wouldnt recommend it ;) |
| 16:11.05 | mercurysquad | project wasnt vague either, but infact very well defined |
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| 16:15.18 | maco | i do wonder what the response to an 18 year old DD applying to Debian would be |
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| 16:16.00 | maco | if ubuntu was a mentor org, i'd be applying to them, even though all the devs know i'd be working on it anyway |
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| 16:18.21 | Ivanovic | maco: in general this can also be seen as a way to allow a dev some extra time on the project |
| 16:18.41 | Ivanovic | or to give some area some extra attention that it would not get otherwise |
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| 16:19.46 | irahul | !next |
| 16:19.46 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
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| 16:37.31 | *** topic/#gsoc is Students, apply now! http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx - Help Needed with Melange Testing http://tinyurl.com/testmelange - Read the GSoC 2009 Site User's Guide http://tinyurl.com/gsoc09userguide - Updated Flyers & Program Presentations now the Wiki - Upload your screen casts, etc. to our YouTube Channel (details on mentors and students list) - This channel is logged at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc |
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| 17:00.33 | summatusmentis | ugh... i need 65 words |
| 17:03.09 | Wolf_OSGeo | summatusmentis: you can generate them over here: http://www.lipsum.com/ ;) |
| 17:03.41 | summatusmentis | Wolf_OSGeo: tacking latin onto the end of a 'personal statement' for study abroad (written in spanish) probably wouldn't go over well :-D |
| 17:04.30 | casinaroyale | summatusmentis: use google translate ;) |
| 17:04.47 | summatusmentis | casinaroyale: right, because that works so well :) |
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| 17:05.23 | Wolf_OSGeo | :) |
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| 17:05.34 | dberkholz | good morning! |
| 17:05.37 | summatusmentis | hi dberkholz |
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| 17:05.45 | casinaroyale | why do I sense a new gsoc proposal :D |
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| 17:07.09 | Wolf_OSGeo | actually a localized lorem Ipsum wouldn't be that bad, it would be useful, since latin doesn't really look like say Finnish, not to mention Greek.. |
| 17:07.14 | summatusmentis | casinaroyale: actually, I've got a friend who just got accepted into the LTI at CMU, and is applying to apertium to do something similar |
| 17:07.40 | summatusmentis | not related to lorem ipsum, but yea |
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| 17:08.14 | summatusmentis | Wolf_OSGeo: wouldn't taking any literary work from any of those languages be enough? |
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| 17:08.47 | Wolf_OSGeo | summatusmentis: not really, because then people get distracted and start reading the text |
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| 17:09.08 | summatusmentis | Wolf_OSGeo: oh, got it |
| 17:09.11 | Wolf_OSGeo | the point with lorem ipsum is that it looks like legal text, but isn't anything real |
| 17:09.24 | summatusmentis | it is real, it's just not english :D |
| 17:09.32 | Wolf_OSGeo | it's not even real latin |
| 17:09.45 | maco | summatusmentis: its "latiny" gibberish |
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| 17:10.18 | Wolf_OSGeo | yeah |
| 17:10.22 | summatusmentis | "Contrary to popular belief, Lorem Ipsum is not simply random text. It has roots in a piece of classical Latin literature from 45 BC, making it over 2000 years old. Richard McClintock, a Latin professor at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, looked up one of the more obscure Latin words, consectetur, from a Lorem Ipsum passage, and going through the cites of the word in classical literature, discovered the undoubtable source. Lorem Ipsum ... |
| 17:10.29 | summatusmentis | ... comes from sections 1.10.32 and 1.10.33 of "de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum" (The Extremes of Good and Evil) by Cicero, written in 45 BC." |
| 17:10.32 | summatusmentis | it's very definitely real latin |
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| 17:12.15 | dberkholz | doesn't quite match up with the actual text below, but pretty close |
| 17:12.33 | schumaml | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum |
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| 17:16.35 | atv | Hi guys, i hv submitted a proposal for gsoc project last week, and i have also subscribed to updates . But still i m not getting any comments from mentors. can any1 tell me what to do ? |
| 17:16.45 | summatusmentis | \o/ 500 words exactly |
| 17:16.54 | summatusmentis | now, whether or not it makes any sense is another thing |
| 17:17.02 | Catfish_Man | atv: mentors are not required to comment on proposals |
| 17:17.09 | Catfish_Man | and most comments they do make are not visible to students |
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| 17:19.14 | atv | Catfish_Man: but then what is the purpose of "Subscribe to updates" ? |
| 17:19.24 | Catfish_Man | atv: mentors may comment |
| 17:19.53 | Lennie | atv, I suggest contacting the mentor organization and ask what they think about it |
| 17:20.07 | Ivanovic | atv: relax a little, mentors might wait a little before really going through the list of applications |
| 17:20.24 | Ivanovic | beside this: talk to your org directly, they will be able to give you some feedback |
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| 17:21.07 | atv | ok frendz . thanks a lot |
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| 17:21.16 | Lennie | yw |
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| 17:22.03 | ajuonline | hey Lennie ;) |
| 17:22.09 | Lennie | hi ajuonline :) |
| 17:22.18 | Lennie | Erant, prod |
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| 17:22.45 | ajuonline | Lennie: how are you doing ? |
| 17:22.48 | Lennie | fine |
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| 17:24.02 | chx | once the student proposal deadline passed (this week) will students be able to edit their proposals? |
| 17:24.21 | Ivanovic | chx: last year they were able to edit them after a public comment was posted |
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| 17:24.33 | Lennie | hmm, not this year but we might change it |
| 17:24.34 | Lennie | lh! |
| 17:24.35 | chx | i know |
| 17:24.43 | chx | yeah |
| 17:24.49 | chx | we need LH or Chris for this |
| 17:25.01 | Lennie | currently editing and creating will be off-limits after the deadline |
| 17:25.08 | Lennie | posting comments and such is possible though :) |
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| 17:25.58 | lh | what's up folks? |
| 17:26.13 | chx | lh hi |
| 17:26.20 | chx | lh: once the student proposal deadline passed (this week) will students be able to edit their proposals? |
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| 17:26.27 | lh | no edits post deadline, comments are enabled. |
| 17:26.32 | chx | lh: last year, old code, a pbulic comment allowed an edit. |
| 17:26.44 | lh | right. that's not enabled for this year. |
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| 17:27.14 | lh | chx: students are welcome to make edits to further information pages, etc. |
| 17:27.41 | chx | sure |
| 17:27.57 | schumaml | students can create documents like anyone else in melange, I guess? |
| 17:28.04 | chx | just wanting the understanding the rules of engagement :) |
| 17:28.26 | lh | schumaml: yes they can |
| 17:28.29 | lh | chx: understood |
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| 17:30.45 | scorche|sh | yawns |
| 17:30.51 | ajuonline | yawns as well |
| 17:31.00 | ajuonline | i should sleep now |
| 17:31.08 | sivaji | there is no option to edit own comments |
| 17:31.08 | Lennie | ajuonline, nn :)? |
| 17:31.24 | sivaji | ajuonline, |
| 17:31.27 | irahul | any mentor from tikiwiki ..?? |
| 17:31.28 | Lennie | sivaji, disabled issue has been created for it |
| 17:31.49 | sivaji | ok thanks |
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| 17:35.02 | kendrick_ | !timeline |
| 17:35.02 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
| 17:35.10 | kendrick_ | thanks socinfo |
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| 17:43.20 | Ivanovic | hmm, somehow i wish that in melange there was also a column for "irc nick", this is more important for me than the real name... |
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| 17:43.30 | Lennie | hehe |
| 17:43.40 | Ivanovic | would make matching proposals to people in irc a whole lot easier... |
| 17:44.25 | Wolf_OSGeo | Ivanovic: you should add it to your application template :P |
| 17:44.33 | Ivanovic | Wolf_OSGeo: we have it in the template |
| 17:44.45 | Ivanovic | Wolf_OSGeo: though it is still not easy to see right in the list of applications |
| 17:44.53 | Wolf_OSGeo | right |
| 17:44.56 | Ivanovic | there something unneccessary like realnames is shown |
| 17:45.02 | Wolf_OSGeo | :D |
| 17:45.03 | Ivanovic | who cares about realnames?!? |
| 17:45.28 | Wolf_OSGeo | orgs that communicate more over email than irc? (like OSGeo) ;) |
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| 17:46.28 | Ivanovic | so it should be configurable what is shown |
| 17:46.42 | Ivanovic | maybe for you the "email address" field would make more sense than the real name |
| 17:46.44 | Ivanovic | ;) |
| 17:46.44 | Wolf_OSGeo | yes! |
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| 17:53.37 | Erant | prods Lennie back |
| 17:54.29 | Lennie | Erant, how did it go ^_^? |
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| 17:55.20 | Erant | Lennie: half decent, actuallu |
| 17:55.23 | Erant | -u+y |
| 17:55.30 | Lennie | cool |
| 17:55.32 | Lennie | applied yet? |
| 17:55.36 | Erant | No. :P |
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| 17:55.44 | kblin | cracks a whip |
| 17:55.46 | MatthewWilkes | hi there Lennie! |
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| 17:56.03 | Lennie | hi MatthewWilkes |
| 17:56.03 | Erant | And I might not. I might have some other interesting shit lined up this summer |
| 17:56.12 | Lennie | haha |
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| 17:56.19 | Lennie | I have a good feeling what it will be about :P |
| 17:56.29 | Erant | Probably wrong though. |
| 17:56.44 | Erant | I ain't doing what you're thinking. Ever. |
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| 17:57.12 | Erant | waits for the wrong ideas to surface with people |
| 17:57.30 | Erant | Lennie: So, no, I might do some work with sensor nodes and TinyOS. |
| 17:57.42 | Lennie | k sweet :) |
| 17:58.00 | Lennie | indeed not what I was thinking :P |
| 17:58.22 | Erant | Went up to the ninth after the exam, where a friend of mine is working on (or wrapping up, rather) a Java VM for sensor node targets |
| 17:58.32 | Lennie | distributed systems :)? |
| 17:58.48 | Lennie | speaking of the ninth |
| 17:58.52 | Lennie | what did Arie say :)? |
| 17:59.02 | Erant | 8th. Wasn't there, obv. |
| 17:59.08 | Erant | I predicted that. |
| 17:59.16 | Erant | I also predicted what he would say if he WAS thre |
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| 18:05.47 | BCarlyon | Hmm |
| 18:06.26 | ankush | hi |
| 18:06.26 | ankush | is native client having an irc channel ? |
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| 18:08.00 | Erant | ankush: That kinda depends on wether the native client meets a nice girl. |
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| 18:09.25 | BCarlyon | o.0 |
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| 18:09.32 | smtms | ankush, have they announced any IRC channel? |
| 18:09.57 | ankush | nopes...its not on the project page |
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| 18:12.21 | junkman | where can i get linux 0.99 or so source code |
| 18:12.52 | tumi | junkman: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/ |
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| 18:13.17 | junkman | ty |
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| 18:13.53 | JunK-Y | how can i confirm that my application is really published? |
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| 18:35.54 | kblin | hey Gamara, fancy seeing you here :) |
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| 18:38.14 | Gamara | howdy |
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| 18:42.26 | Leonox3 | Hi is there any problem in applying to two different organizations with the same project proposal? |
| 18:42.44 | Catfish_Man | Leonox3: it's generally considered a bad idea |
| 18:42.51 | Catfish_Man | looks lazy if the organizations notice |
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| 18:43.50 | Leonox3 | Catfish_Man: well in the project both organizations are involved... |
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| 18:56.43 | Chani | will the gsoc site notify me if there are comments on my applicatioon? |
| 18:57.18 | rwcr | Chani: You have to "subscribe to updates" - "List my applications", click the application, button in upper-left corner. |
| 18:57.46 | Chani | ah, I just did that actually :) |
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| 19:10.56 | mansu | Does anyone know who I should talk to if I am interested in a project on apache? |
| 19:11.11 | Catfish_Man | probably an apache person |
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| 19:25.07 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o ixdz] by irc.freenode.net |
| 19:25.11 | Toba | oh. hi. |
| 19:25.11 | Catfish_Man | hey Toba |
| 19:25.11 | Toba | hi cfm |
| 19:25.11 | Erant | Lennie: I just happened to glance at one of this years FOSDEM flyers, why does it say "5000+ hackers"? |
| 19:25.11 | Toba | how's things? |
| 19:25.11 | Toba | is mentoring pysoy this year, probably |
| 19:25.11 | Catfish_Man | things are pretty good. Lots of annoying arguments about how some stuff should look though :/ |
| 19:25.11 | Toba | annoyances are ever present |
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| 19:25.40 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o chandlerc[g]] by ChanServ |
| 19:25.40 | summatusmentis | Toba: howsit? |
| 19:25.40 | Toba | it's okay. |
| 19:25.40 | Toba | doing gsoc, jts? |
| 19:25.40 | *** part/#gsoc devvrat (i=d2d43703@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d14d3a1ac55d45f2) |
| 19:25.40 | summatusmentis | yep, OpenAFS |
| 19:25.40 | Toba | or just watching |
| 19:25.40 | Toba | oh right, I knew that |
| 19:25.40 | summatusmentis | well, applying, hoping I get in |
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| 19:26.04 | summatusmentis | you said you're mentoring? |
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| 19:27.35 | unimauri | hi all somebody from Peru ? |
| 19:27.36 | summatusmentis | unimauri: I don't know anyone off the top of my head, but why do you ask? |
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| 19:28.33 | unimauri | summatusmentis: my friend would join to the channel |
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| 19:29.29 | summatusmentis | unimauri: there are spanish speakers in #spanish-gsoc if that's what you want |
| 19:30.04 | unimauri | summatusmentis: great |
| 19:30.44 | jarle__ | hi |
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| 19:33.02 | Lennie|Gone | Erant, because it can :P |
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| 19:52.27 | chunmun | !next |
| 19:52.27 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
| 19:52.42 | *** part/#gsoc g2 (n=g2@78.142.169.100) |
| 19:52.48 | unimauri | !abiword |
| 19:52.48 | socinfo | Error: "abiword" is not a valid command. |
| 19:52.51 | unimauri | hi |
| 19:53.08 | Lennie | hi |
| 19:53.10 | unimauri | somebody join to abiword ideas from gsoc app |
| 19:53.12 | unimauri | ? |
| 19:53.16 | *** join/#gsoc LaurieJ (n=LaurieJ@dsl-217-155-205-58.zen.co.uk) |
| 19:53.26 | unimauri | http://www.abisource.com/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code_2009 |
| 19:53.27 | *** join/#gsoc olesalscheider (n=desktop@xdsl-87-79-161-3.netcologne.de) |
| 19:53.38 | chunmun | was wondering if there is any scope of deadline extension again ? :P |
| 19:53.46 | scorche|sh | unimauri: huh? |
| 19:53.50 | thiago_home | any scope? |
| 19:53.52 | thiago_home | or any hope? |
| 19:53.56 | scorche|sh | chunmun: dont count on one |
| 19:53.58 | pygi | stop asking for extensions, just write the application |
| 19:54.05 | scorche|sh | seriously |
| 19:54.20 | unimauri | http://www.abisource.com/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code_2009 this site is inaccesible for me... |
| 19:54.38 | scorche|sh | unimauri: then go talk to abiword? |
| 19:54.54 | chunmun | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:54.57 | scorche|sh | i dont know what we are supposed to do about their sute... |
| 19:55.08 | pygi | chunmun, one is enough, if it has enough quality |
| 19:55.33 | chunmun | pygi: I know but no. of slots and competitors are always there |
| 19:55.44 | pygi | chunmun, me not afraid :) |
| 19:55.52 | chunmun | my friend last yr was out coz of less no. of slots |
| 19:55.54 | scorche|sh | chunmun: so make sure it is a good app.. |
| 19:55.58 | chunmun | pygi: good for you :) |
| 19:56.02 | *** join/#gsoc HanzZ (n=hanzz@78.108.151.211) |
| 19:56.09 | HanzZ | !next |
| 19:56.10 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
| 19:56.18 | chunmun | scorche|sh: Will definitely do my best :) |
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| 19:57.47 | Landon | summatusmentis: I should probably change the name of my blog... |
| 19:58.07 | Landon | since apparently there already is a TARDIS Log :P |
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| 20:01.57 | summatusmentis | Landon: :D |
| 20:03.07 | Landon | too bad I'm not clever |
| 20:03.14 | Landon | enough to make my own name :P |
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| 20:08.05 | summatusmentis | Landon: I spent a lot of time figuring out my nick, and giving it meaning |
| 20:08.17 | summatusmentis | therefore, I also used it for me blag |
| 20:08.27 | Landon | I've got a slightly uncommon name, so I use it everywhere |
| 20:08.33 | Landon | I got tired of using aliases a few years ago |
| 20:08.38 | *** join/#gsoc nixbox (n=jkhkhk@utdpat242008.utdallas.edu) |
| 20:08.40 | nixbox | hi |
| 20:08.47 | summatusmentis | I have a wildly uncommon name, but I'm weirded out by using it on the internet |
| 20:08.54 | Landon | but Landon's Blog just doesn't have that ring to it |
| 20:08.55 | Landon | Jacob? :P |
| 20:09.21 | summatusmentis | I guess my last name is wildly uncommon |
| 20:09.30 | summatusmentis | less so first name |
| 20:09.30 | nixbox | i just submitted my student proposal, it showed me that it has been saved. Of course I had selected the organization that I am applying for. Is that it? Should I notify the mentor via an email? |
| 20:09.35 | Landon | heh :P |
| 20:09.41 | summatusmentis | nixbox: the org should see it now |
| 20:10.00 | summatusmentis | that said, i don't know if anyone in the org is notified that an application has been submitted |
| 20:10.12 | Landon | I also need to find osme new blogging software |
| 20:10.12 | jchiu | how many applications are there each year? |
| 20:10.16 | Landon | something lightweight like nanoblogger |
| 20:10.18 | summatusmentis | Landon: I use wordpress |
| 20:10.23 | Landon | but with a web interface |
| 20:10.30 | Landon | + cli interface |
| 20:10.33 | Landon | depending on what mood I'm in |
| 20:10.34 | Landon | :) |
| 20:10.38 | Landon | + email interface |
| 20:10.44 | Landon | wordpess is too much for me |
| 20:11.12 | summatusmentis | wordpress can do web + email and probably cli if you wanna hack an XML-RPC interface for CLI |
| 20:11.25 | Landon | there's also the matter of database |
| 20:11.29 | Landon | I don't want to run mysql on my vps |
| 20:11.30 | Landon | :) |
| 20:11.45 | Landon | and I don't want ot have to hack anything, it should Just Work |
| 20:11.59 | nixbox | summatusmentis, will my email address be visible to the mentors? |
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| 20:13.04 | summatusmentis | nixbox: I believe so? |
| 20:13.18 | summatusmentis | Landon: wah wah wah |
| 20:13.21 | summatusmentis | you're so picky |
| 20:13.23 | *** join/#gsoc joeyadams (n=joey@70.151.149.100) |
| 20:13.24 | Landon | I know it |
| 20:13.25 | Landon | :) |
| 20:13.48 | Landon | I'm such a f'ing user |
| 20:13.49 | Landon | :p |
| 20:14.17 | summatusmentis | haha |
| 20:14.56 | kblin | nixbox: hang on, I'll check :) |
| 20:15.30 | kblin | nixbox: nope |
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| 20:15.45 | ychoucha | hello |
| 20:15.46 | kblin | nixbox: not unless you mention it in the application text |
| 20:15.57 | nixbox | kblin, hmm so i should mention my email address in the application |
| 20:15.58 | ychoucha | i want send my project how i make this please? |
| 20:16.01 | nixbox | kblin, thanks |
| 20:17.18 | kblin | nixbox: no problem :) |
| 20:17.22 | kblin | !faq |
| 20:17.22 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/faqs |
| 20:17.26 | Erant | Lennie: Pfrt |
| 20:17.29 | kblin | ychoucha: ^^ |
| 20:17.40 | Lennie | Erant? |
| 20:17.47 | Erant | Lennie: HACKER is a subset of DEV. :P |
| 20:17.58 | Lennie | is DEV-NPC? |
| 20:18.14 | Erant | HACKER is. |
| 20:18.25 | Erant | So DEV must be as well |
| 20:18.29 | Lennie | maybe we can use restriction to proof that DEV is aswell :P |
| 20:18.32 | Lennie | no Erant :P |
| 20:18.38 | Erant | Well, almost. |
| 20:18.47 | Lennie | because sigma star is a super set of all languages |
| 20:18.50 | Lennie | and that is in P |
| 20:18.56 | Erant | Oh shush. |
| 20:18.58 | Lennie | :) |
| 20:19.05 | nixbox | I am depending on one proposal :) |
| 20:19.27 | *** join/#gsoc AlHafoudh (n=AlHafoud@chello089173068056.chello.sk) |
| 20:19.29 | Erant | Wouldn't be smiling then |
| 20:19.37 | nixbox | haha |
| 20:19.40 | Lennie | good luck nixbox :) |
| 20:19.47 | nixbox | i have tried to put some effort into the ONE |
| 20:19.59 | nixbox | thanks Lennie |
| 20:20.12 | Lennie | nixbox, nothing wrong with that |
| 20:20.20 | Lennie | in fact it might even be better |
| 20:20.23 | Lennie | showing dedication |
| 20:20.36 | nixbox | yes , this is what I think too. |
| 20:20.56 | nixbox | Initially I had planned to submit multiple proposals but then I resorted to only one |
| 20:21.51 | jchiu | amazon search girl scout cookies, lmao |
| 20:22.11 | nixbox | I need feedback on my submitted proposal, should i wait for the mentors to see it or should I email them? |
| 20:24.06 | lh | nixbox: how long ago did you submit it? |
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| 20:25.19 | nixbox | lh, 10 minutes back |
| 20:25.45 | chunmun | nixbox: many orgs ve proposal discussion on their ml. If its not so with your org, maybe you can ping them once on irc/email.. |
| 20:25.45 | *** join/#gsoc Emmanuel (n=ron@129.15.131.206) |
| 20:26.18 | nixbox | chunmun, thanks for the info |
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| 20:29.18 | lh | nixbox: then you should wait at least a day, but feel free to ping in their IRC channel before that |
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| 20:38.47 | ankush | building native client...takes 20 minutes ...phew !! |
| 20:39.01 | kblin | shrugs |
| 20:39.04 | kblin | I've seen worse |
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| 20:39.38 | Giant-Sheep | well now you've got a good excuse to do something silly and pointless for 20 minutes |
| 20:39.42 | Landon | heh |
| 20:39.47 | ankush | probably too much for a new guy |
| 20:39.56 | Landon | I've spent this weekend trying to do much worse! (aka python-ogre) |
| 20:40.00 | Landon | and I still didn't get it set up |
| 20:40.00 | Landon | :P |
| 20:40.06 | ankush | Giant-sheep: yeah right :) |
| 20:40.10 | Ori_B | ankush: native client for what? |
| 20:40.10 | kblin | hehe, you're not the only one |
| 20:40.25 | Catfish_Man | ankush: a clean build of adium took about 45 minutes on my last laptop :P |
| 20:40.27 | Ori_B | (and... well, if you think 20 minutes is slow, don't compile OpenOffice) |
| 20:40.34 | kblin | ankush: http://xkcd.com/303/ |
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| 20:40.41 | Landon | kblin beat me to it |
| 20:40.42 | Landon | :( |
| 20:40.45 | Landon | wow |
| 20:40.52 | Landon | hard to believe how long it's been since that one came out |
| 20:40.56 | Landon | getting quite near 600s |
| 20:41.59 | dho_plan9 | wondersif we're going to get any more applications : |
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| 20:42.20 | kblin | dho_plan9: seems to be a slow year for most orgs |
| 20:42.22 | smtms | dho_plan9, applications will double in the last 24 hours |
| 20:42.35 | Ori_B | dho_plan9: there will be more applications near the deadline :P |
| 20:42.54 | ankush | Catfish_Man: patience wins ;) |
| 20:43.04 | Catfish_Man | ankush: nah, getting a new laptop wins :) |
| 20:43.06 | jchiu | x_x i'm just starting my search now..... |
| 20:43.07 | ankush | kblin: lovely cartoon :) |
| 20:43.09 | Catfish_Man | (6x as fast) |
| 20:43.25 | *** join/#gsoc kittipat (n=chatzill@vpn2-178.vpn.net.ed.ac.uk) |
| 20:43.57 | ankush | Catfish_Man: ha ha ha |
| 20:44.17 | Catfish_Man | hoping by the time I get my next one there's reasonable quad core laptops :) |
| 20:44.30 | Landon | hot enough to fry eggs on |
| 20:44.30 | Landon | :) |
| 20:44.40 | ankush | :) |
| 20:44.41 | *** part/#gsoc nerus (n=suren@www.nitt.edu) |
| 20:44.44 | Landon | gets back to work on his application |
| 20:44.52 | Landon | short and sweet and to the point right? |
| 20:44.54 | Catfish_Man | Landon: pfft, power use scales super-linearly with clock frequency |
| 20:44.54 | Landon | :P |
| 20:45.04 | Ori_B | dho_plan9: just out of curiosity, how many applications are there so far? |
| 20:45.08 | Catfish_Man | I'll take 4 cores at the same total power please :) |
| 20:45.17 | Landon | heh |
| 20:45.46 | *** join/#gsoc [particle]2 (n=Jerry@32.158.90.214) |
| 20:45.46 | Catfish_Man | sure it'll be worse for non-parallel stuff, but my non-parallel stuff is generally fast enough already |
| 20:45.57 | dho_plan9 | I don't think so |
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| 20:45.59 | dho_plan9 | but I hope so |
| 20:46.07 | dho_plan9 | We have 7. |
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| 20:46.24 | kblin | Catfish_Man: I want an ARM box with decent mobile internet connectivity |
| 20:46.35 | Catfish_Man | kblin: that doesn't sound good for compiling on |
| 20:46.37 | dho_plan9 | kblin: you can get that now for $150. |
| 20:46.43 | dho_plan9 | Catfish_Man: they're actually quite fast. |
| 20:46.59 | kblin | Catfish_Man: that way I can do all my hard number crunching on my quad core desktop |
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| 20:47.04 | Catfish_Man | dho_plan9: my baseline is a 2GHz Core 2 Duo |
| 20:47.14 | kblin | dho_plan9: dunno, UMTS is too slow :) |
| 20:47.20 | Catfish_Man | kblin: true. I suppose I could probably set up something like that |
| 20:47.29 | ankush | hopes it works after compiling :( |
| 20:47.29 | dho_plan9 | http://dkc1.digikey.com/us/mkt/beagleboard.html |
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| 20:48.03 | kblin | dho_plan9: I've got a beagle.. it's a really nifty box, but I didn't try compiling on it yet |
| 20:48.08 | Landon | Catfish_Man: need a new laptop :\ |
| 20:48.17 | Landon | 900mhz single core is ridiculously sloooooooooooow |
| 20:48.23 | Catfish_Man | Landon: ugh :( |
| 20:48.24 | SantiByron | !next |
| 20:48.24 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
| 20:48.25 | Landon | especially after using the new work machines with an i7 and SSD |
| 20:48.27 | kblin | dho_plan9: I'm currently working on getting Samba4 to work on it |
| 20:48.41 | smtms | dho_plan9, Plan 9's project ideas were mostly boring IMO |
| 20:48.42 | klange | I really want one of those pico projectors... |
| 20:48.47 | dho_plan9 | smtms: What interests you? |
| 20:49.04 | kblin | dho_plan9: Embedded Active Directory ftw ;) |
| 20:49.07 | dho_plan9 | klange: 7 lumens! |
| 20:49.08 | *** join/#gsoc cylmor (n=cylmor@cm173228.red91-116.mundo-r.com) |
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| 20:49.37 | dho_plan9 | kblin: heh. *shrugs* my applications are more like ``how can I get wireless media to my receiver or the TV in our bedroom'' |
| 20:49.48 | dho_plan9 | and there are cheaper ARM things that can do that |
| 20:50.14 | dho_plan9 | Also, it seems that the video on the beagleboard is only semi-open, so there wouldn't really be a way for me to run what I want to on it. |
| 20:50.21 | Ori_B | Landon: hey, I'm on a dual core 1.06 ULV |
| 20:50.28 | Ori_B | and it's good enough for most stuff I care about |
| 20:50.33 | [particle]2 | all video is semi-open at this point, iirc |
| 20:50.35 | Ori_B | a bigger complaint is disk speed :) |
| 20:50.40 | smtms | dho_plan9, your list of ideas got updated since last time I looked at it! |
| 20:50.41 | [particle]2 | i mean, no video is fully open |
| 20:50.42 | Landon | Ori_B: have you gone back to single core after being on a dual core :P |
| 20:50.45 | Landon | it's painful |
| 20:50.49 | dho_plan9 | smtms: Yes, I put a whollllle lot on |
| 20:50.54 | dho_plan9 | [particle]2: also harro |
| 20:50.59 | Ori_B | [particle]2: you're not constrained to the ideas on that list |
| 20:51.15 | dho_plan9 | heh |
| 20:51.15 | [particle]2 | i'm only constrained by my braces |
| 20:51.38 | Ori_B | [particle]2: when I did SoC, I think only one of the proposals was ever for something in the ideas list |
| 20:51.45 | dho_plan9 | Ori_B: I think you mean smtms |
| 20:52.01 | [particle]2 | Ori_B: i'm an org admin for the perl foundation |
| 20:52.20 | dho_plan9 | [particle]2: I'm guessing nobody was interested in parrot for p9 :) |
| 20:52.39 | [particle]2 | haven't seen anything yet :) |
| 20:53.02 | [particle]2 | it's a high barrier of entry, having to first get perl 5.8.4 compiling there |
| 20:53.06 | dho_plan9 | I guess if it was `open enough' and I could get a DVI header on there, and slap a DVI->Component converter |
| 20:53.35 | kblin | dho_plan9: the beagle has dvi out |
| 20:53.49 | dho_plan9 | I still think there are other HD-capable arm boards for about $70 less |
| 20:53.54 | kblin | dho_plan9: it's just using an hdmi connector because that's smaller |
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| 20:54.10 | Ori_B | [particle]2: ahh.. :P |
| 20:54.12 | Ori_B | oops |
| 20:54.19 | Ori_B | I assumed you were a student |
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| 20:54.23 | kblin | but it doesn't do that drm crap |
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| 20:55.52 | dho_plan9 | was really hoping someone would want to do a firewall project on Plan 9 this year |
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| 20:56.58 | smtms | would firewall on Plan 9 be something conventional? or something Plan-9-ish? |
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| 20:58.07 | dho_plan9 | A bit of both. |
| 20:58.27 | dho_plan9 | There's only so many ways to efficiently do packet classification on conventional storage without CAM |
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| 20:59.48 | dho_plan9 | But interfacing with it for statistics and control would obviously be done via an fs-exported interface. |
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| 21:00.53 | Ori_B | hm, another neat project might be a proxy file server for unreliable networks? |
| 21:01.56 | dho_plan9 | I think you can already do that kind of thing with Inferno, and I'm pretty sure the scope of that wouldn't be 3-months |
| 21:03.38 | killerchicken_ | Hi, I have a question with regard to signing up as a student. Does "lower ASCII characters" mean no capitalization? Or something else that I don't understand correctly? |
| 21:03.49 | Landon | just nothing fancy |
| 21:03.52 | Ori_B | dho_plan9: yeah, you're probably right. |
| 21:03.55 | Catfish_Man | it means 7 bit ascii |
| 21:04.04 | Landon | ö < -- none of that, etc |
| 21:04.24 | killerchicken_ | ah, ok. Yeah, I know what ASCII is, but didn't understand "Lower ASCII". |
| 21:04.34 | anothy_x | "lower 7 bits" |
| 21:04.45 | Landon | isn't there a regex in there showing accepted characters? |
| 21:05.04 | killerchicken_ | hm, not for me. Maybe it doesn't work with Webkit nightlies? |
| 21:05.40 | killerchicken_ | Also, I take it there's no way to submit my information via an ssl-secured connection? |
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| 21:12.14 | Raim | Landon: no, I had the same confusion over the "lower" |
| 21:12.15 | pavelo | killerchicken_: afraid someone will steal your secret recipe for success? |
| 21:12.45 | pavelo | srsly, i honestly don't understand why google doesn't have https access |
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| 21:13.01 | killerchicken_ | pavelo: no. Afraid someone will read the personal contact/school-related information? Yes. |
| 21:14.01 | killerchicken_ | The way google handles logins across domains with unsecure cookies is not something that I like very much. |
| 21:14.37 | pavelo | maybe that could be a SoC project? hmm..... |
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| 21:14.49 | killerchicken_ | not really |
| 21:15.15 | killerchicken_ | how you configure your server doesn't have much to do with how you structure your application |
| 21:15.46 | killerchicken_ | I guess the problem is that too few people complain, so there's no incentive to change |
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| 21:17.09 | killerchicken_ | I've been working with the Tor project for over a year now, this really sensitized me to the problems with unencrypted data transfer |
| 21:18.21 | livewire | dho_plan9: I might be interested in doing a 'Firewalling in Plan9' project |
| 21:19.18 | dhoclone_plan9 | livewire: Great, send a good app :) |
| 21:19.28 | dhoclone_plan9 | I will help y65555555555555555555555555555555555~~t |
| 21:19.31 | dhoclone_plan9 | ECAT |
| 21:19.36 | dhoclone_plan9 | I will help with it |
| 21:20.12 | livewire | dhoclone_plan9: Sounds good! |
| 21:20.31 | dhoclone_plan9 | There's also #plan9-gsoc |
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| 21:20.41 | livewire | dhoclone_plan9: Whom should I get in contact with for that? |
| 21:20.45 | dhoclone_plan9 | me |
| 21:20.52 | dhoclone_plan9 | :) |
| 21:20.54 | livewire | oh, great! |
| 21:21.06 | livewire | I'll switch to #plan9-gsoc |
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| 21:43.13 | KillerX | I have to say, I'm kind of disappointed with the number & quality of apps so far :-/ |
| 21:43.18 | KillerX | was definitely better last year |
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| 21:43.35 | KillerX | hopes the pace picks up in the last few days of submission |
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| 21:45.30 | bobbens | KillerX: what org? |
| 21:45.46 | KillerX | bobbens: 3 actually; Mozilla, Gentoo and Plan 9 |
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| 21:46.02 | KillerX | the state is more or less the same for all of them |
| 21:46.43 | bobbens | mmm, plan 9 might be interesting |
| 21:46.46 | bobbens | should look at the ideas :) |
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| 21:47.33 | spectie | hey bobbens |
| 21:47.37 | bobbens | hello spectie |
| 21:47.39 | spectie | qué tal? |
| 21:47.49 | KillerX | bobbens: let me know if you have any questions ;) |
| 21:47.51 | bobbens | bien, bien, todavia trabajando en la beca de la generalidad :) |
| 21:48.01 | bobbens | spectie: no accents configured, sorry :P |
| 21:48.04 | kloeri | hmm, I would have expected student applications to somewhat follow organisation applications (which seemed to be higher quality this year) |
| 21:48.05 | bobbens | i don't like the dvorak-es :) |
| 21:48.12 | spectie | bobbens, acabe la semana pasada |
| 21:48.24 | bobbens | KillerX: well my soul is most likely sold to SDL, but it would be also interesting if I find something cool |
| 21:48.26 | spectie | ya hemos recibido el dinero |
| 21:48.28 | spectie | :D |
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| 21:49.03 | bobbens | nice |
| 21:49.08 | bobbens | I still have to finish coding the uC |
| 21:49.15 | bobbens | need tofinish soldering too |
| 21:49.17 | bobbens | which is a pain :P |
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| 21:49.27 | bobbens | but my project has turned into open software and open hardware :) |
| 21:50.14 | livewire | KillerX: I've got a few questions regarding Glentoo :) |
| 21:50.28 | livewire | KillerX: wanna switch to #gentoo-soc ? |
| 21:50.46 | KillerX | livewire: sure! |
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| 21:51.35 | bobbens | spectie: I've got a hard day tomorrow, so good night |
| 21:51.40 | bobbens | glad your beca worked out finally :) |
| 21:52.52 | jib | Hello |
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| 22:00.02 | jib | I have a question about gsoc project proposal |
| 22:00.24 | literal | ask it then |
| 22:00.57 | jib | is it possible to work on a personnal open-source project? |
| 22:01.17 | jib | And if yes, how to choose a mentor |
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| 22:01.47 | literal | it has to be under a mentor organization |
| 22:02.22 | literal | what kind of project are you talking about? |
| 22:02.24 | jib | ok so all i have to do is choosing the mentor the closest to my project speficicities? |
| 22:02.49 | literal | yes |
| 22:03.12 | literal | e.g. if you're talking about some Gtk+ application, you might get GNOME to mentor it |
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| 22:03.15 | jib | It's a project in python allowing to add a rss feed for a ftp server |
| 22:03.34 | literal | but you'd have to ask the org first to be sure, otherwise you're wasting your time :) |
| 22:03.37 | maco | jib: maybe OpenSSH? |
| 22:04.02 | jib | i also plan to use wxwidget for portability |
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| 22:04.13 | jib | wxpython i this case |
| 22:04.57 | jib | so it uses python, wxpython and is about ftp and rss |
| 22:05.43 | jib | should i ask to python organisation, wxwidget or another one...? |
| 22:05.59 | tilmann | jib: i don't know, GSoC is more about improving *existing* open source projects |
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| 22:06.26 | literal | honestly this doesn't sound like a project that's likely to be accepted by any organization |
| 22:06.32 | jib | tilmann: yeah, i know, that's why i asking my question |
| 22:06.36 | maco | wait, why is a GUI needed? |
| 22:06.49 | jib | just to be more userfriendly |
| 22:07.02 | maco | i thought what you were saying is to have an RSS feed of what's uploaded to an FTP server. why's an FTP server have a GUI? |
| 22:07.28 | jib | it's just to avoid editing plan text config file |
| 22:07.43 | maco | sysadmins are pretty well used to that |
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| 22:08.07 | literal | and probably wouldn't want to run X just to edit an FTP server's configuration |
| 22:08.15 | maco | exactly |
| 22:08.22 | tilmann | jib: you can always try, but i think the chances are rather low |
| 22:08.25 | maco | if it was just RSS generation of what's uploaded over sftp, that could be an addition to openssh |
| 22:08.27 | jib | i know but i would my program used by begginers |
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| 22:08.46 | maco | beginners run ftp servers on their laptops? |
| 22:08.54 | maco | maybe ftp *clients*... |
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| 22:09.15 | jib | they can run ftp server on windows with just some tutorials |
| 22:09.17 | hypa7ia | you'd be amazed at what people run ftp servers on :s |
| 22:09.25 | maco | hi hypa7ia |
| 22:09.42 | hypa7ia | soup |
| 22:09.47 | jib | i want my prog to be running on linux/windows/macos |
| 22:10.06 | maco | hypa7ia: well yeah, i have put an ftp server on my laptop so that bf could ftp me some debs instead of double-downloading updates, but then i firewall it rght back of |
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| 22:11.13 | Sepho | hi everybody! |
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| 22:13.44 | jib | maco: I think i will eventually contact openssh orga, thanks |
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| 22:18.56 | joepa | once a proposal is listed on the ``List my Student Proposals'' page, is the proposal submission complete? |
| 22:19.31 | bitsweat | no, you can still update your proposal in response to reviews |
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| 22:19.43 | bitsweat | the submission is complete after April 3 :) |
| 22:20.34 | joepa | so, after April 3, as long as the proposal is listed on the ``List my Student Proposals'' page, then the proposal submission is complete |
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| 22:20.56 | joepa | but between now and then, changes can be made in light of feedback |
| 22:21.04 | joepa | is that right? |
| 22:21.04 | tntcoda | correct |
| 22:21.07 | joepa | great, thanks |
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| 22:21.43 | pcmattman | do public comments count as changes in that case - for instance, clarification after a public review? |
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| 22:25.19 | rwatson | lh: around? |
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| 22:30.58 | dhoclone_plan9 | hey rwatson :) |
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| 22:38.48 | rwatson | dhoclone_plan9: hi ho evildho |
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| 22:48.53 | summatusmentis | !timeilne |
| 22:48.54 | socinfo | Error: "timeilne" is not a valid command. |
| 22:48.58 | summatusmentis | ugh, spelling |
| 22:49.01 | summatusmentis | !timeline |
| 22:49.01 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
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| 23:09.02 | mambro | hi |
| 23:09.20 | summatusmentis | hi mambro |
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| 23:09.49 | mambro | proposals can be seen only by organizations or a student can also see other students proposals? |
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| 23:13.54 | gchaix | mambro: only org prople can see apps |
| 23:14.06 | gchaix | I don't think students can see other apps |
| 23:14.15 | summatusmentis | nope |
| 23:14.17 | mambro | gchaix: ok, thank you |
| 23:16.21 | monsieurp | mambro wants to steal other students proposals! |
| 23:16.25 | monsieurp | :P |
| 23:16.32 | mambro | hihi |
| 23:16.41 | summatusmentis | hrr |
| 23:16.45 | caden|atwork | no, he just wants to steal yours monsieurp |
| 23:16.50 | caden|atwork | we ALL do |
| 23:16.51 | caden|atwork | O_O |
| 23:17.02 | summatusmentis | monsieurp: what're you proposing? |
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| 23:18.04 | monsieurp | ahah |
| 23:18.07 | monsieurp | secret |
| 23:18.36 | ArthurLiu | hi, we have a student proposal which disappeared by itself a few days ago and now reappeared as "ineligible" but if I click it it says "There is no such active entity" (from http://socghop.appspot.com/org/list_proposals/google/gsoc2009/debian ). What is happenning ? |
| 23:19.13 | ojwb | ask on #melange? |
| 23:19.21 | ArthurLiu | right |
| 23:19.34 | ojwb | sounds like something's amiss |
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| 23:24.49 | serabe | hi, any codehaus mentor here? there is a sentence in the application template that seems truncated |
| 23:26.27 | ojwb | !anyone |
| 23:26.28 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
| 23:27.41 | serabe | thanks |
| 23:28.37 | LV-426_ | Hello - unfortunately my university's time-line doesn't align well with GSoC as we are currently taking our finals - I'd just like to mention that extending the submission deadline would truly make the difference between being able to apply & not. Hope this is noted somewhere... ;] Thanks |
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| 23:29.15 | ojwb | LV-426_: it's unlikely to happen |
| 23:29.31 | ojwb | you could have started talking to orgs weeks ago |
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| 23:58.34 | serabe | night |
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