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| 03:12.11 | danderson | just fixed a bug with some epic debugging |
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| 03:12.38 | danderson | my embedded kernel was crashing during bootup, before any drivers came up. So, no way to print diagnostics, or even to beep diagnostics |
| 03:13.26 | danderson | just this black box of basic code, and a bug somewhere in it. The only possible outcomes are: boots properly, or coprocessor emits periodic Beep of Death signalling that the CPU never got round to talking to it |
| 03:13.38 | danderson | however. |
| 03:14.24 | danderson | it turns out that by initializing the sound controller and feeding it tone samples, even with the coprocessor in charge of sound for the purpose of beep-of-deathing |
| 03:14.56 | danderson | I can get the pitch of the Beep of Death to rise by a few kHz for 2 beeps, before it returns to normal |
| 03:15.06 | thebolt | heh |
| 03:15.16 | danderson | and voila, a one-shot breakpoint |
| 03:16.02 | danderson | armed with my trusty beep twiddler, I rapidly homed in on an ISR that wasn't getting invoked |
| 03:16.14 | thebolt | sounds like a famous story from Origin from theUltima times.. one of their developers had perfect ear for pitch |
| 03:16.31 | danderson | and from there to the power management code that wrote device_id to the power enable register, instead of (1 << device_id) |
| 03:16.40 | thebolt | so when debugging hard hangs (for example) he made the PC speaker emit different tones in different functions |
| 03:16.41 | danderson | thus powering up random peripherals, instead of the one I wanted |
| 03:17.05 | thebolt | running normaly it sounded like a modem, but when it hangs the speaker sticks to whatever frequency was last set |
| 03:17.05 | danderson | heh |
| 03:17.08 | thebolt | so he could say which function |
| 03:17.19 | danderson | I did something similar with my imperfect pitch |
| 03:17.36 | thebolt | (PC speaker is/was controlled by a separate IC that maintains its own state..) |
| 03:17.42 | danderson | to get the display driver running, I'd use the sound driver as a printf() |
| 03:17.55 | danderson | feed it a byte, it dit-dit-daaa's the bits out |
| 03:18.04 | danderson | with me on the other end with a pencil, reconstructing bytes :P |
| 03:18.57 | danderson | so I'm now rather satisfied with the extent of my l33t ninja debugging skillz |
| 03:19.21 | danderson | though my jedi master still beats me, having debugged an SPI driver by oscilloscope |
| 03:19.41 | thebolt | well, that is the standard way imo |
| 03:19.57 | danderson | whatever, it's hardcore ;) |
| 03:20.11 | thebolt | we spent quite a bit of time with a digital recording oscilloscope to get our software TWI (I2C) implementation right in a project course this spring |
| 03:20.17 | danderson | though I'm not displeased with my "Just initialize the sound controller and pump data through it, a little bit of it escapes" |
| 03:20.28 | thebolt | getting all the timing rights is a major pain |
| 03:20.39 | thebolt | esp when handling multi-master with conflict resolution |
| 03:20.57 | danderson | software TWI isn't too bad with a decent state machine, a precise timer, and non-fucked hardware on the bus |
| 03:21.11 | danderson | the softmac i2c driver in NxOS took about a week of messing around to develop |
| 03:21.33 | thebolt | well, guess it depends on what speeds and what processor etc you use |
| 03:21.49 | danderson | followed by a month of "denormalizing" the i2c spec to communicate successfully with a piece of shit radar sensor that went autistic if it saw i2c sequences it didn't like |
| 03:21.54 | thebolt | (we did 100kHz on small AVR which also had other tasks) |
| 03:22.10 | danderson | ah, now that is hard |
| 03:22.12 | danderson | respect :) |
| 03:22.27 | thebolt | luckily our major master had hardware TWI |
| 03:22.47 | danderson | heh |
| 03:23.03 | thebolt | i've also implemented TWI in VHDL.. takes some thinking.. |
| 03:23.06 | danderson | this brick has both; hardware TWI for coprocessor communication, software TWI for communication with sensors |
| 03:23.12 | danderson | ooh, haven't done that |
| 03:23.19 | danderson | sounds painful :) |
| 03:23.33 | thebolt | maybe i should reuse that later on when we have to write a SONET switch core .. use TWI for status stuff |
| 03:24.13 | thebolt | (although that will be done in Verilog) |
| 03:24.13 | danderson | anyway, maybe I should get some sleep now |
| 03:24.13 | danderson | I said I was going to bed 4 hours ago |
| 03:24.13 | thebolt | and i should study my analog electronics |
| 03:24.13 | danderson | but then the kernel refused to boot. |
| 03:24.13 | thebolt | :) |
| 03:24.32 | danderson | and 4 hours later, here I am, feeling very stupid at the horribly obvious bug that took 4 hours and brute force code bisection to find |
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| 03:30.50 | danderson | okay, this qualifies as bed time |
| 03:31.15 | danderson | spent 5 minutes trying to figure out why my sound example kernel (just beeps in an infinite loop) wasn't beeping |
| 03:31.23 | danderson | ... it's because I was loading the wrong kernel |
| 03:31.30 | thebolt | :) gn |
| 03:31.44 | danderson | I was loading the 'minimal' example kernel, which is just void nxos__appkernel_main() { } |
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| 07:08.40 | kblin | ew |
| 07:08.59 | kblin | a sales job... |
| 07:09.59 | scorche | ew |
| 07:11.43 | kblin | I'm not _that_ desperate ;) |
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| 07:37.09 | thiago_home | is hiring |
| 07:37.21 | thiago_home | and not for sales :-) |
| 07:40.15 | araujo | thiago_home, drop the link |
| 07:40.16 | araujo | :-P |
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| 07:45.50 | thiago_home | araujo: not doing advertisement here |
| 07:46.18 | thiago_home | anyone that is interested will contact me privately and then we can discuss |
| 07:48.06 | araujo | envia un ramo de flores hacia lh |
| 07:48.47 | lh | buenos noches mi amigo. que es un ramo? lo siento, pero yo no quiero usar el google |
| 07:49.26 | scorche | lh! |
| 07:49.40 | lh | scorche: scorche! |
| 07:49.53 | lh | how have you all been? |
| 07:49.56 | araujo | lh, branch :-D |
| 07:50.02 | scorche | has been existing |
| 07:50.15 | araujo | thinks this channel is not the same without lh |
| 07:50.28 | scorche | araujo: psst...she is in here |
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| 07:51.20 | lh | lol |
| 07:51.31 | lh | i missed all of you too |
| 07:52.20 | Ivanovic | hi lh |
| 07:52.24 | sid0 | lh: hi! |
| 07:52.34 | Ivanovic | enjoyed your holidays? |
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| 07:56.19 | araujo | lh, mucho baile amiga? |
| 07:56.51 | lh | araujo: si pero |
| 07:56.53 | lh | hrm. not enough. |
| 07:56.55 | lh | never enough' |
| 07:56.58 | araujo | hahaha |
| 07:56.59 | lh | Ivanovic: you are awake |
| 07:57.05 | lh | sid0: hello |
| 07:57.10 | lh | Ivanovic: very very much so |
| 07:57.23 | Ivanovic | lh: yes, just got up |
| 07:57.27 | Ivanovic | it is 9am over here |
| 07:57.34 | Ivanovic | (and in 5mins i got to leave to uni) |
| 07:58.00 | lh | Ivanovic: very good. |
| 07:58.07 | lh | checks to make sure alarm is set |
| 07:58.16 | Ivanovic | :) |
| 07:58.53 | Ivanovic | and this was just great, right in the middle of the week and i managed to get 9 hours of sleep... |
| 07:59.18 | Ivanovic | (since i am rather busy with "stuff" atm my amount of sleep is in general more like <6h) |
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| 08:03.45 | lh | and here we are again, in #gsoc |
| 08:04.48 | lh | decides watching dune is more fun than checking email |
| 08:04.56 | Ivanovic | :) |
| 08:05.22 | Ivanovic | realizes that he now really has to get off to uni |
| 08:05.24 | Ivanovic | cu |
| 08:05.31 | lh | Ivanovic: have fun! |
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| 08:24.38 | araujo | thinks the channel is complete again |
| 08:34.06 | kendrick | whweeee |
| 08:34.19 | kendrick | hey lh. ghop gonna hoppen? |
| 08:37.52 | kendrick | gets the cold shoulder |
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| 10:07.07 | thebolt | hi kblin |
| 10:07.20 | kblin | hi thebolt |
| 10:07.30 | kblin | hm, interesting |
| 10:09.50 | thebolt | what is? |
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| 10:20.11 | kblin | thebolt: I'm on over a different IPv6 connection than I thought |
| 10:20.59 | thebolt | heh ok |
| 10:21.55 | kblin | oh, I missed lh coming in :) |
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| 11:13.29 | kblin | hmm |
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| 11:15.02 | kblin | so the difference between SD and SDHC cards is the file system used? |
| 11:17.26 | scorche | that *can* be a difference, but it is far from the main differences |
| 11:18.19 | kblin | well, obviously SD cards are limited to 2GB storage |
| 11:18.40 | scorche | well, technically, no |
| 11:18.59 | scorche | there are 4 GB cards that are sort of inbetween standards |
| 11:19.20 | kblin | well, yeah |
| 11:19.41 | scorche | main difference is the way it addresses memory |
| 11:25.34 | kblin | I'm currently trying to figure out if I can get a 16 gig sdhc card for my beagle board or not :) |
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| 11:30.05 | thebolt | hi lh |
| 11:31.26 | kblin | at 03:30, I think that's an auto-reconnect |
| 11:39.53 | kblin | bbl |
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| 11:58.23 | mlankhorst | lh! |
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| 12:12.23 | kblin | hey mlankhorst |
| 12:12.28 | mlankhorst | wave |
| 12:14.22 | ajuonline | hey kblin, mlankhorst |
| 12:15.42 | kblin | ah, there we go |
| 12:15.51 | kblin | page 68 of the spec |
| 12:16.02 | kblin | cards > 2GB are supported :) |
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| 12:18.20 | kblin | too bad there's no 32gb sdhc cards yet, or I could keep my svn repo on the sd card :) |
| 12:21.00 | kblin | actually there are.. |
| 12:21.07 | kblin | but they're frigging expensive |
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| 14:00.16 | kblin | uh, just making sure I'm not missing something |
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| 14:02.07 | kblin | assuming I have a char *data and want to pass that to a function void foo(char *bar), and I've got code that looks like foo( (char *)&data ); someone is hiding a bug by a cast, right? |
| 14:02.34 | kblin | there's not anything clever about passing "(char *)&data" instead of just "data" |
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| 14:06.55 | jmb | kblin: assuming foo() does take a char *, then yes, that looks decidedly odd |
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| 14:07.47 | kblin | jmb: to me it looks like someone accidently wrote &data, then got a compiler warning and silenced that with the cast |
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| 14:08.03 | jmb | kblin: sounds possible |
| 14:09.10 | kblin | just wanted to make sure there's nothing inherently clever I'm missing there :) |
| 14:10.13 | Mek | of course (char *)&data is something completely different than just 'data', but probably you already knmow that |
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| 14:11.03 | kblin | Mek: but it doesn't make sense in that context to pass the pointer to the place where the data pointer is stored |
| 14:11.16 | kblin | but I do wonder how this code was working before |
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| 14:12.46 | kblin | jelmer: fix your client, durnit ;) |
| 14:12.53 | mlankhorst | Hmmm |
| 14:13.01 | mlankhorst | I wonder with how much evil I can get away with |
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| 14:44.17 | kblin | hmm |
| 14:45.30 | kblin | I wonder if char data[8]; (char *)&data; is any different.. to char *data; (char *)&data; |
| 14:46.43 | danderson | after cast, I don't think so. |
| 14:47.12 | danderson | but, you should be ending up with a char**, the cast is losing some information |
| 14:47.13 | danderson | no? |
| 14:47.36 | kblin | well, that's what's puzzling me |
| 14:47.46 | kblin | the function takes a char *, not a char ** |
| 14:48.04 | danderson | so it should be taking data directly |
| 14:48.06 | danderson | not &data |
| 14:48.19 | danderson | sounds like someone put in the cast to shut up the compiler because they were puzzled by the error. |
| 14:48.20 | bobbens | maybe it's casting the it to (char**) |
| 14:48.22 | kblin | and I can't wrap my head around why a lot of code uses (char *)&data |
| 14:48.22 | danderson | (or warning) |
| 14:48.53 | kblin | danderson: well, if this code was written by a beginner, I'd agree |
| 14:49.28 | danderson | no offense intended to whomever wrote it of course |
| 14:49.38 | danderson | just saying that's what it looks like from here, with the info you gave |
| 14:49.45 | kblin | yeah, I know |
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| 14:52.15 | kblin | what I don't understand is why the cast version would work anyway |
| 14:52.43 | kblin | and it's used in too many places to go unnoticed if this broke |
| 14:55.18 | kblin | ok, so this always used to be a char[] before last year, when someone converted all the big arrays to be malloced to save stack space |
| 14:57.55 | mlankhorst | Fail |
| 14:59.26 | kblin | and for arrays, (char *)&data and data are identical |
| 14:59.37 | kblin | at least on the gcc version I just tried this on |
| 15:00.35 | mlankhorst | Hmm |
| 15:00.57 | mlankhorst | &data and data for arrays being identical doesn't surprise me |
| 15:01.20 | mlankhorst | If you think about it :) |
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| 15:02.51 | kblin | so I think for the cases where this was converted to char * I found a bug :) |
| 15:03.24 | kblin | which means I have to fix that for the next 3.2 bugfix release |
| 15:03.26 | kblin | drat |
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| 15:03.52 | jmb | have fun! :) |
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| 15:06.17 | mlankhorst | I think I even read about this case in the C book somewhere |
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| 15:07.55 | kblin | mlankhorst: yeah, the case where I stumbled over this was with a char*, where I was sure that (char *)&addr wasn't the same |
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| 15:09.46 | mlankhorst | :) |
| 15:10.06 | mlankhorst | But I don't see why you would have to cast &data in the char[] case.. |
| 15:10.25 | danderson | same |
| 15:10.31 | danderson | either data or &data[0] |
| 15:10.36 | danderson | but not &data |
| 15:10.39 | mlankhorst | danderson: &data works for array case |
| 15:10.52 | mlankhorst | Because it makes a pointer to the array |
| 15:10.59 | danderson | mlankhorst: eh? |
| 15:11.01 | danderson | hmm. |
| 15:11.01 | mlankhorst | Which is the same as a pointer to &data[0] |
| 15:11.04 | kblin | well, the data was actually a typedef, so maybe it was added to make the code more readable |
| 15:11.10 | danderson | which happens to be the same as data and &data[0]? |
| 15:11.14 | kblin | yes |
| 15:11.15 | danderson | I did not know that. Thanks. |
| 15:11.20 | kblin | I just checked |
| 15:11.29 | mlankhorst | I read it in a C bible somewhere |
| 15:11.32 | danderson | (always been confused by how the heck arrays work with ptrs) |
| 15:11.34 | kblin | as in wrote a test case.. I don't believe in specs |
| 15:11.43 | mlankhorst | kblin: :P |
| 15:11.44 | jmb | n1124.pdf is your friend :) |
| 15:11.47 | mlankhorst | That's the way to go |
| 15:11.56 | jmb | or K&R, if you have such a thing lying around |
| 15:12.01 | jmb | one day, I'll read that |
| 15:12.09 | mlankhorst | Technically it's not exactly the same data type, which would explain the cast |
| 15:12.11 | kblin | jmb: I'd have to get up to get that from the other room |
| 15:12.35 | jmb | kblin: you're ahead of me, then -- I don't own a copy :) |
| 15:12.49 | jmb | despite programming C for years |
| 15:13.28 | danderson | mlankhorst: except the cast is implicit except if you turn compiler nazism all the way up |
| 15:13.33 | danderson | waaay past -pedantic |
| 15:13.42 | mlankhorst | True |
| 15:13.50 | mlankhorst | Friends don't let friends do -W ;) |
| 15:13.52 | kblin | danderson: samba pretty much turns on all there is |
| 15:14.01 | danderson | kblin: -pedantic -pedantic-errors too? |
| 15:14.05 | danderson | that's just masochism. |
| 15:14.11 | kblin | dunno, really |
| 15:14.19 | kblin | I don't grok the build system |
| 15:14.24 | danderson | -Wall -Wextra -Werror -Wother-unincluded-warnings I'm down with, absolutely |
| 15:14.30 | danderson | but -pedantic is just too, well, pedantic |
| 15:14.47 | danderson | I've never seen it used in anything but CS101 and other trivial programs |
| 15:14.57 | danderson | then again, I usually hack on kernelish stuff in C nowadays |
| 15:15.00 | mlankhorst | danderson: Wine doesn't even work properly if you do ./configure with -Wall -Werror |
| 15:15.04 | danderson | -pedantic would have a fit, the kind of things I do :) |
| 15:15.20 | kblin | -Wall -Wshadow -Wpointer-arith -Wcast-align -Wwrite-strings -Wdeclaration-after-statement -Werror-implicit-function-declaration |
| 15:15.22 | kblin | it seems |
| 15:15.42 | danderson | mlankhorst: NxOS compiles with -Wall -Werror -Wextra -Wlots-of-other-stuff, with only one __attribute__ ((unused)) on a variable |
| 15:15.52 | mlankhorst | Wine is pretty dirty with pointers.. |
| 15:15.56 | kblin | hehe |
| 15:16.01 | danderson | (read from a status register that is required to flush interrupt state, even if value is unused) |
| 15:16.12 | mlankhorst | But that's because the windows api sucks and you have to be dirty.. |
| 15:16.19 | danderson | heh |
| 15:16.33 | danderson | sounds like me debugging nxos |
| 15:16.59 | danderson | only way I found to debug the bootup sequence (where the coprocessor hasn't handed over power control for things like sound yet, so no way to beep) |
| 15:17.06 | mlankhorst | danderson: Are you compiling with -fwhole-program ? |
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| 15:17.14 | danderson | is to initialize the sound controller anyway and start pumping data into it |
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| 15:17.31 | danderson | the pitch of the "beep of death" the coprocessor makes then changes pitch for 2 beeps, for some reason |
| 15:17.53 | danderson | thus giving me a "execution got to here" diagnostic "LED" |
| 15:18.10 | danderson | I think it's my favorite debug technique ever |
| 15:18.25 | danderson | way better than beeping the bits of a byte over the sound controller (used for debugging display driver :P |
| 15:19.05 | mlankhorst | lol |
| 15:20.16 | danderson | seriously, it's *awesome* |
| 15:20.24 | danderson | once I had that diagnostic, I found the bug in 10 minutes |
| 15:20.52 | danderson | and I'm incredibly proud of this horrible debugging hack |
| 15:21.19 | mlankhorst | I'm just debugging the windows flagship |
| 15:21.34 | mlankhorst | After lots of hacks it sort of installs |
| 15:21.36 | danderson | I prefer metal |
| 15:21.39 | danderson | both in programming and music |
| 15:21.41 | danderson | :P |
| 15:21.52 | danderson | running off the bare metal with just your own code everywhere is awesome |
| 15:22.13 | MatthewWilkes | danderson: You considering 20. wacken? |
| 15:22.39 | danderson | 20. ? |
| 15:22.46 | MatthewWilkes | 20th |
| 15:22.48 | danderson | oh |
| 15:22.55 | danderson | I don't think so |
| 15:23.05 | kblin | cool, found another one of these |
| 15:23.11 | danderson | not decided yet, but I had a much better time at Metalcamp this year |
| 15:23.11 | MatthewWilkes | I'm only going as it's the 20th, otherwise would probably go to hellfest |
| 15:23.25 | danderson | so probably going back to Slovenia in 09 |
| 15:23.35 | MatthewWilkes | Wacken '08 was qu |
| 15:23.40 | MatthewWilkes | quite poor, tbh |
| 15:23.41 | danderson | a week on the beach with metal and beer is <3 |
| 15:23.50 | danderson | plus, security at MC is the sane kind |
| 15:23.56 | mlankhorst | :> |
| 15:24.16 | danderson | at MC, if you have anything that could potentially be a weapon, you're out |
| 15:25.20 | danderson | at MC, unless you bring in actual weapons or are blind drunk and unable to stand, they trust you to be sane |
| 15:25.20 | danderson | works much better |
| 15:25.20 | MatthewWilkes | yeah |
| 15:25.20 | MatthewWilkes | Somebody torched a car at wacken this year |
| 15:25.20 | danderson | we actually brought a shisha into the festival grounds |
| 15:25.25 | MatthewWilkes | ah, cool |
| 15:25.29 | kblin | and I found a bug in my code, yay |
| 15:25.33 | danderson | security were puzzled, but once they established it was just tobacco, they wanted to try :P |
| 15:26.57 | MatthewWilkes | they're never had a hookah before? |
| 15:27.07 | danderson | seems not |
| 15:27.13 | MatthewWilkes | mental |
| 15:27.20 | danderson | first one came up, asked what that thing is |
| 15:27.20 | danderson | tried it |
| 15:27.26 | danderson | then brought his mates back to try it :P |
| 15:27.40 | danderson | best wtf moment of the week |
| 15:27.47 | MatthewWilkes | Barbeque, beer, hookah, pink floyd. Traditional british student way to spend a summer afternoon |
| 15:28.00 | danderson | heh |
| 15:28.20 | danderson | barbecue, beer, hookah and Volbeat |
| 15:28.23 | danderson | also not bad :P |
| 15:28.47 | MatthewWilkes | I've texted friends before saying "Fancy coming round? Got beer, food and hookah, playing the Wall" and got back "Can't, eating a burger, drinking beer, smoking hookah and listening to dark side of the moon" |
| 15:29.05 | danderson | haha |
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| 15:29.07 | danderson | nice. |
| 15:29.55 | mlankhorst | lol |
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| 18:49.42 | ajuonline | any from US around ? |
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| 19:04.17 | Catfish_Man | sup ajuonline? |
| 19:06.31 | ajuonline | Catfish_Man: pm? |
| 19:06.32 | summatusmentis | ajuonline: I'm always around |
| 19:06.38 | ajuonline | oh hi summatusmentis |
| 19:07.02 | ajuonline | Lowanda is a male/female name? summatusmentis Catfish_Man ^ |
| 19:07.21 | Catfish_Man | I've never met anyone named Lowanda, but it sounds female |
| 19:07.22 | summatusmentis | Lowanda? I would assume femaile |
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| 19:08.25 | summatusmentis | I've never met anyone named Lowanda either |
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| 19:15.58 | ajuonline | ok |
| 19:16.24 | ajuonline | i need to call up someone by this name. and i dont know how to address :P so i guess ill judge by the voice |
| 19:16.28 | ajuonline | :P |
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