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| 10:43.00 | mallum | hey |
| 10:58.45 | pb_ | hi mallum |
| 10:58.50 | mallum | hey pb_ |
| 10:59.06 | mallum | just building a new libsn and testing x stuff on 3100 |
| 10:59.21 | mallum | pb_: what was the lib files I should remove again ? |
| 10:59.54 | pb_ | mallum: any symlinks ending in .so |
| 11:00.18 | mallum | pb_: okey I'll update my autoipkg script |
| 11:00.30 | pb_ | cool |
| 11:01.10 | pb_ | by the way, next time you build a matchbox ipk, would it be possible to have mbdesktop removed from /usr/bin/mbstart and provided as an "x-desktop" alternative or some such? |
| 11:02.13 | mallum | hmmm, are there any other dekstops yet though / ;-) |
| 11:03.37 | pb_ | well, you can call the alternative something else if you want. But there are going to be GPE users who want to continue using gpe-appmgr and don't want mbdesktop running all the time. |
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| 11:07.34 | mallum | pb_: yeah sure, Im only joking around ;-) |
| 11:08.11 | mallum | pb_: I've started work on a matchbox gtk configurator , so I'll probably handle it from there |
| 11:09.05 | pb_ | ok, cool |
| 11:10.18 | PaxAnima | morning |
| 11:27.45 | mallum | bah them new fonts arn't apperently dfsg compliant. sometimes debian is very silly |
| 11:28.06 | PaxAnima | dfsg? |
| 11:28.21 | mallum | debian free software guidelines |
| 11:28.52 | PaxAnima | ah |
| 11:29.01 | mallum | I swear theres people on debian whose sole purpose is too make as much stuff as possible non dfsg compliant |
| 11:30.35 | PaxAnima | heh |
| 11:34.47 | pb_ | Which part of the licence is it that they don't like? |
| 11:35.24 | pb_ | (not that I've actually seen a copy of the Bitstream licence yet) |
| 11:36.18 | mallum | "The fonts cannot be packaged by themselves for sale, but can be sold with any software." |
| 11:36.44 | mallum | one could say though the postinst script in a deb is 'software' |
| 11:38.53 | pb_ | Yeah, I suspected they might have trouble with that bit. The policy manual actually only says that "The license of a Debian component may not restrict any party from selling or giving away the software as a component of an aggregate software distribution containing programs from several different sources. The license may not require a royalty or other fee for such sale"; nothing about selling the component on its own. |
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| 13:02.04 | florian | hi all! |
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| 13:19.27 | mccarthy | hello all |
| 13:19.35 | mccarthy | it seems that the new atd is broken :( |
| 13:19.53 | mccarthy | (but *my* version from the gpe-atd sources works fine....go figure) |
| 13:20.15 | mccarthy | I guess I will email nils... |
| 13:23.47 | florian | mccarthy: tell me what's up... he sits in front of me :-)) |
| 13:24.41 | mccarthy | florian: I simply get atd hanging when you try to touch the trigger file. |
| 13:24.50 | mccarthy | (I didnt investigate further than that) |
| 13:25.30 | mccarthy | florian: the atd sources from the gpe CVS work fine, however (I am using a binary I built directly from there). |
| 13:25.54 | mccarthy | I havent checked to see if he changed anything in the move from gpe CVS to handheld CVS |
| 13:27.03 | florian | mccarthy: nils opinion ist that gpe-atd and new atd should be the same |
| 13:27.32 | florian | mccarthy: maybe mail him and explain in detail what you did |
| 13:32.55 | mccarthy | florian: strange....they *do* seem to be the same sources.... |
| 13:33.29 | mccarthy | florian: where did he build it? |
| 13:34.42 | florian | mccarthy: last time on his x86 |
| 13:35.05 | mccarthy | florian: can he do a "echo > /var/spool/at/trigger" without it hanging? |
| 13:36.12 | mccarthy | florian: tell him, BTW, that both ipkg and the Packages script thinks that 0.6 is *older* than the old version anyway, so I am likely his only tester right now ;) |
| 13:36.39 | florian | mccarthy: he tested it on his ipaq, works |
| 13:37.36 | florian | mccarthy: the /etc/init.d/atd script seems not to work |
| 13:37.40 | mccarthy | florian: stange....it does for me now too (just reinstalled).... |
| 13:38.04 | mccarthy | florian: maybe that was it...the init.d script thing...maybe I had 2 atds running or something.... |
| 13:40.29 | florian | mccarthy: ahh, good. the ipkg problem is known - looks like a ipkg bug |
| 13:40.47 | mccarthy | florian: who is trying to fix it? |
| 13:41.53 | florian | mccarthy: i have no idea about this - _if_ i had time i'd many things to do with ipkg |
| 13:43.02 | mccarthy | florian: do you have any idea what pb_'s ipkg is supposed to fix? |
| 13:45.44 | florian | mccarthy: nope, but this is a good point - i could take a look at this |
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| 14:20.13 | pb_ | hi florian |
| 14:26.42 | florian | pb_: hi |
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| 16:35.53 | cmarqu | pb_: This screenshot from gpe-login (http://handhelds.org/scap/port.27377.png) is with the Vera fonts? |
| 16:36.15 | pb_ | cmarqu: no, the ordinary MS ones. I don't have a copy of Vera yet. |
| 16:37.01 | cmarqu | Well, if we change the gtkrc, we should figure out with jg how to do it right. Server resolution vs. pixel size or whatever the issue was. |
| 16:38.17 | pb_ | The main reason I mentioned the gtkrc needed changing there was to get the width of the GtkEntry box under control. If the busybox bug were fixed, the fonts would automatically go back to being a more reasonable size. |
| 16:38.36 | cmarqu | Ah, okay. |
| 16:39.11 | pb_ | I think the font name is just hardcoded as "Verdana 6" or something. That's probably good enough for the time being. |
| 16:40.05 | cmarqu | Oh, indeed, that's gtkrc2, I was still thinking of gtkrc with that long font name spec. |
| 16:40.42 | pb_ | Ah yes. I basically don't care at all about gtk1 any more. Even Nils seems to be working on gtk2 nowadays. |
| 16:41.01 | cmarqu | Yup. |
| 16:41.21 | mallum | matchbox has the same problem, all the themes use Verdana as there first choice |
| 16:41.46 | cmarqu | Oh, BTW, if nils comes here and I miss him, tell him that he can LGPL whatever code he wants fixed in libgpewidget. |
| 16:42.23 | mallum | is libgpewidget now lgpl then ? |
| 16:42.38 | cmarqu | I thought so, yes. |
| 16:43.29 | mallum | cmarqu: are you coming to fosdem btw ? |
| 16:43.38 | cmarqu | mallum: No. |
| 16:44.45 | mallum | :( |
| 16:54.14 | pb_ | mallum: it's only for the login screen that the font name is hardwired in gtkrc. For everything else it is set with gpe-confd. |
| 16:55.24 | mallum | pb_: do you knwo if anyones started on a GUI front end for gpe-confd ? |
| 17:13.48 | stargirl_ | so, who is up for newnham bar at 10:30? |
| 17:13.51 | stargirl_ | oops |
| 17:13.53 | stargirl_ | wrong channel!! |
| 17:14.23 | pb_ | mallum: not unless you count gpe-conf. |
| 17:14.37 | moray | stargirl_: ha |
| 17:14.47 | moray | stargirl_: but what if pb_ wanted to go? |
| 17:15.27 | stargirl_ | well I'm sure pb_ would be we welcome to come along in that case, as would anyone else :-) |
| 17:15.39 | stargirl_ | however, I did intend to make that comment on some other channel entirely :-) |
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| 17:15.43 | pb_ | heh. |
| 17:16.13 | jg | pb_: hi |
| 17:16.25 | pb_ | hi jg |
| 17:30.21 | mallum | jg: hey there, have you have a play with one of them compaq tablet pc's yet ? |
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| 17:37.05 | ade|desk | lo all |
| 17:57.45 | pattieja | pb_: where's a feed for gpe2? |
| 17:57.50 | pb_ | pattieja: familiar unstable |
| 17:58.12 | pattieja | oh. I thought you might have been a separate project like opie is |
| 17:59.07 | pb_ | separate project yes; separate feed no. |
| 17:59.12 | ade|desk | pb_: any ideas why i dont have any fonts for gtk2 in X on my x86. am confused what should be install/configured. |
| 17:59.14 | pattieja | k |
| 17:59.28 | pb_ | ade|desk: try fc-list, see what it says |
| 17:59.36 | ade|desk | pb_: got a bigger calculater :) |
| 18:00.14 | ade|desk | pb_:fc-list gives no output |
| 18:00.52 | mallum | ade|desk: are you running debian ? |
| 18:01.19 | ade|desk | mallum: yup |
| 18:02.23 | mallum | apt-get install msttcorefonts |
| 18:03.13 | moray | I seem to have a ttf-openoffice package on here too |
| 18:03.48 | mallum | I think newest fontconfig will do type1 fonts as well |
| 18:03.58 | mallum | ade|desk: running fc-cache may be enough to fix it |
| 18:04.04 | moray | (and there appear to be other ttf-* packages) |
| 18:04.33 | mallum | moray: yes but unfirtunatly non come even close to the quality of the ms ones :( |
| 18:04.41 | moray | mallum: indeed |
| 18:04.53 | jg | mallum: no. |
| 18:06.01 | ade|desk | mallum: installing them now |
| 18:06.12 | moray | mallum: though on a desktop system it's potentially worth having even not very good fonts around e.g. for different headline styles (not that I know if the ttf- packages in Debian include any such fonts) |
| 18:06.29 | ade|desk | mallum: what i dont get is why i have not done this on my laptop .. yet that works |
| 18:07.13 | pb_ | maybe gtk is using X core fonts on your laptop. |
| 18:07.15 | mallum | jg: its a pity there so expensive :( |
| 18:07.25 | ade|desk | pb_: maybe |
| 18:08.56 | ade|desk | yay fonts :) many thanks folks |
| 18:09.27 | ade|desk | time to compile smp kernel .. and off we go :) |
| 18:11.55 | mallum | ade|desk: oh cool you got your new dual cpu machine ? |
| 18:12.39 | ade|desk | mallum: yup, only 100MHz buss atm, does like booting at 133MHz :( |
| 18:12.59 | ade|desk | uni proc till the kernel is finished |
| 18:25.40 | mallum | ade|desk: have you tried it with apic stuff ? |
| 18:25.50 | ade|desk | nope |
| 18:30.41 | ade|desk | note to self -j 2 works better |
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| 18:36.23 | mallum | jg: have you seen http://www.debianplanet.org/node.php?id=899 ? |
| 18:38.28 | jg | mallum: now I have. I don't care. |
| 18:38.36 | jg | mallum: debian sometimes goes off the deep end. |
| 18:39.53 | jg | mallum: so debian should just package them up with anything else, and they are fine. |
| 18:43.27 | mallum | jg: I agree with you entirely |
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| 19:14.01 | florian_ | hi all |
| 19:16.39 | mallum | hey florian_ |
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| 19:20.48 | pb_ | mallum: is there any eta for new X packages in unstable? |
| 19:22.05 | mallum | pb_: oh my 3100 was taking all day to upgrade to them ... |
| 19:22.16 | mallum | pb_: and I forgotten about it :( |
| 19:22.22 | pb_ | mallum: heh |
| 19:23.33 | mallum | pb_: hmm, it appeared to have gone to sleep, am upgrading again |
| 19:23.50 | mallum | pb_: I have a new libsn to uplaod aswell |
| 19:23.58 | pb_ | ah great |
| 19:36.03 | mallum | its taking for ever just to upgrade gtk2.2 |
| 19:36.24 | pb_ | are you low on flash? |
| 19:36.33 | mallum | not sure |
| 19:36.39 | pb_ | remember that jffs2 gets slower the less free space you have |
| 19:37.41 | mallum | oh dear |
| 19:37.43 | mallum | /dev/mtdblock/1 15.8M 14.9M 844.0k 95% / |
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| 20:07.50 | pb_ | dc_: yo |
| 20:07.52 | dc_ | hey |
| 20:08.24 | mallum | hey dc_ |
| 20:08.47 | dc_ | mallum: hey |
| 20:16.10 | mallum | Im having major matchbox hackfest |
| 20:16.23 | mallum | fixing all the boring stuff |
| 20:16.23 | dc_ | huray |
| 20:16.58 | mallum | whats is nil's atd for ? |
| 20:17.40 | pb_ | scheduling events |
| 20:17.46 | pb_ | it's just an update to the one already in familiar |
| 20:18.55 | mallum | like cron ? |
| 20:19.11 | pb_ | more or less, yeah, but for one-shot events rather than repeated. |
| 20:19.25 | pb_ | see man at for example |
| 20:22.30 | mallum | oh yes I've seen this before |
| 20:22.37 | mallum | I dont think I thought it was the same thing |
| 20:22.41 | mallum | mumble mumble |
| 20:33.58 | pb_ | mallum: did your 3100 install ever complete? |
| 20:35.23 | mallum | pb_: nope, I think its fuxor'd :( |
| 20:35.32 | pb_ | mallum: oh dear |
| 20:35.40 | mallum | where is jsmanique when you need him |
| 20:55.23 | pb_ | mallum: want to upload the packages anyway? |
| 21:09.40 | jg | mallum: so have you checked in the changes to the X build scripts? |
| 21:33.03 | pb_ | anyone happen to know a cheap place to buy CF sleeves? |
| 21:37.38 | mallum | pb_: I was looking at the dual one on expansys - 60 quid |
| 21:37.49 | mallum | jg: I didn't think Ihad write access ? |
| 21:38.27 | mallum | jg: do you have a 3100 close to you at the moment ? |
| 21:38.40 | pb_ | mallum: yeah, I really want just one of the old single sleeves. |
| 21:38.53 | pb_ | mallum: I plan to break it apart, so the cheaper the better. |
| 21:39.52 | mallum | pb_: oh ok, did you check ebay ? |
| 21:40.01 | pb_ | mallum: yeah, there are some on there for ~ 30 quid |
| 21:41.30 | jg | mallum: dunno; try it and see. |
| 21:41.46 | jg | mallum: no, I don't have a 3100 at home. |
| 21:43.16 | mallum | jg: okey trying |
| 21:43.51 | mallum | hmm, Id really like to get these packages tested on a 3100 before uploading them .... |
| 21:44.07 | mallum | pb_: is there something you have queued thats dependant ? |
| 21:46.45 | mallum | ewe -> protocol error: directory '/usr/cvs/xscripts' not within root '/cvs' |
| 21:48.03 | pb_ | mallum: new gpe-session-scripts with the -br flag really. |
| 21:48.12 | pb_ | mallum: is there any reason to think they won't work on 3100? |
| 21:48.57 | florian_ | pb_: where can i find the -hh5 patch for the kernel you used for that bootgpe2 image?! |
| 21:49.09 | pb_ | florian_: there isn't an actual patch, but you can get the code from cvs. |
| 21:49.51 | mallum | jg: I do have write access, I just have to change all the damn CVS/Repository entrys |
| 21:50.14 | florian_ | pb_: ah, ok - thanks, i'll do - sounds a kind of "unofficial" :-) |
| 21:50.38 | pb_ | florian_: the code is tagged in cvs, so we can retrospectively create a patch if necessary |
| 21:51.25 | florian_ | mallum: i got a line that does ths for you.. it's from one of the admins, maybe this could help you |
| 21:52.12 | florian_ | pb_: ah, great - i need some additional modules, i'll check it out later... |
| 21:53.08 | florian_ | pb_: this one much better than the familiar stable kernel i used lately... |
| 21:53.14 | florian_ | brb |
| 21:54.11 | mallum | florian_: oh cool, that'll save me from smashing sed against a brick wall |
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| 21:58.23 | mallum | florian_: for repo in `find ./ -name Repository`; do sed -e 's/usr\///' < $repo > $repo; done |
| 21:59.24 | mallum | oh no |
| 21:59.32 | mallum | thats cleared them all :( |
| 22:02.33 | mallum | I missed the mv step after sed |
| 22:16.52 | mallum | jg: phew! okey committed |
| 22:17.06 | mallum | jg: its a good job a regularly back up stuff ;-) |
| 22:17.09 | jg | great! |
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| 22:36.50 | florian_ | mallum: oh sorry |
| 22:37.26 | florian_ | find . -name Repository | xargs perl -pi -e 's,^/usr/cvs,/cvs,' |
| 22:37.59 | florian_ | That was Nick Duffek's solution |
| 22:42.14 | pb_ | florian_: did Nick happen to mention what they actually changed to cause the problem? |
| 22:44.32 | florian_ | pb_: they fixed a security hole in cvs, but he says that this should not cause any problems. |
| 22:44.55 | pb_ | ah right |
| 22:45.07 | dc__ | sleep |
| 22:52.47 | pattieja | pb_: can gpe2 be installed and play nice with opie? |
| 22:53.02 | pb_ | pattieja: installed yes; play nice I'm not so sure about. |
| 22:53.05 | pattieja | hmm |
| 22:53.21 | pb_ | pattieja: so long as you only run one at a time there will be no problem. |
| 22:53.24 | pattieja | yeah, I think that the opie startup script like, deletes /etc/rc2.d/Ssomething with X in it |
| 22:53.30 | florian_ | good night |
| 22:53.52 | pb_ | florian_: night |
| 22:53.58 | pb_ | pattieja: ! |
| 22:54.06 | pb_ | pattieja: wow, I didn't realise it actually did that. :-) |
| 22:54.14 | pattieja | let me check... |
| 22:54.36 | pattieja | pb_: yep, take a look - |
| 22:54.38 | pattieja | case $1 in |
| 22:54.38 | pattieja | 'start') |
| 22:54.38 | pattieja | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:54.38 | pattieja | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:54.50 | pattieja | baam! |
| 22:54.53 | pattieja | ouch |
| 22:54.58 | pattieja | hmm |
| 22:54.59 | pb_ | pattieja: there are two problems with running both at once. (a) opie doesn't allocate itself a virtual terminal, so it just draws over the top of whatever else is running (ie the xserver); (b) the X server doesn't let go of the mouse when you switch to another console, so mouse clicks in Opie will cause unintended effects under X as well. |
| 22:55.06 | pb_ | pattieja: heh, nice. |
| 22:55.20 | pattieja | hehe. that's funny |
| 22:55.34 | pattieja | no, I wasn't thinking of running *both* at once, but one at a time, but have them both installed |
| 22:55.43 | pb_ | pattieja: ah, that should be no problem. |
| 22:56.22 | pb_ | pattieja: you can stop and start gpe with /etc/init.d/gpe-dm, and likewise Opie with /etc/init.d/opie. |
| 22:56.37 | pb_ | I guess it would be possible to set up inittab with a different runlevel for each. |
| 22:58.42 | pattieja | or select which to run at boot time |
| 22:59.12 | pattieja | hmm. or maybe at reboot time, or a file that holds the desired window manager, etc. |
| 22:59.35 | pb_ | yeah, AntiProxy has a little selector widget to choose an environment at boot time. |
| 23:06.33 | *** join/#gpe jg (~jg@dialup-67.30.181.80.Dial.Boston1.Level3.net) |
| 23:06.59 | pattieja | pb_: that would be cool. how about putting the capability into the bootldr? |
| 23:07.08 | pattieja | well, that probably wouldn't be practical |
| 23:07.50 | pattieja | hmm. does AntiProxy's selector use the console and keys? I guess I'm asking how it works/where I can get it |
| 23:11.24 | pb_ | pattieja: yeah, it runs on a text terminal. I'm not sure what it does for keys or how you get it. |
| 23:11.40 | mallum | pb_: I poked around the tinyX source, but I could not see anything obvious on where it got signaled of a vt change |
| 23:11.51 | pb_ | mallum: it's normally done with SIGUSR1 |
| 23:12.02 | pb_ | mallum: there is an ioctl you can make to select the signal, let me look it up |
| 23:15.14 | pb_ | mallum: looks like it's done with VT_SETMODE. |
| 23:16.38 | mallum | pb_: okey |
| 23:18.45 | pb_ | so, see e.g. hw/kdrive/linux/linux.c::LinuxSetSwitchMode |
| 23:21.50 | mallum | pb_: so am I correct in reading he's setting that to just ignore the signal on vt change ? |
| 23:22.50 | pb_ | mallum: no, if he didn't want the signal he would just not request it. |
| 23:24.03 | mallum | pb_: so LinuxVTRequest is getting called ? |
| 23:24.09 | pb_ | yup |
| 23:25.13 | mallum | hmm, that doesn't seem todo much at all |
| 23:25.48 | mallum | there is LinuxDisable() which looks like it may somehow get called on a vt switch |
| 23:26.11 | pb_ | I think KdProcessSwitch() in kdrive/kdrive.c is the place. |
| 23:30.29 | mallum | pb_: have you done an 'xrandr -x' yet ? |
| 23:30.33 | mallum | btw |
| 23:31.01 | pb_ | nope, what does that do? |
| 23:32.12 | mallum | one sec and I'll scap it |
| 23:32.45 | mallum | the tinyX source is very scary |
| 23:32.54 | mallum | Im lost before I even start :( |
| 23:33.00 | pb_ | :-( |
| 23:33.50 | mallum | itd be great to get kiethp to spend a few hours talking you through it all ;-) |
| 23:35.15 | pb_ | ha. |
| 23:37.49 | pb_ | It might be enough to just call MouseFini in LinuxDisable, and MouseInit in LinuxEnable. |
| 23:38.08 | pb_ | be worth asking keithp if he has any quick suggestions, if you can nail him down for a few seconds. |
| 23:38.55 | mallum | pb_: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.24498.png |
| 23:39.20 | pb_ | ah, neat. |
| 23:39.33 | pb_ | that's the head-up display thing I suppose |
| 23:39.42 | mallum | yeah |
| 23:40.38 | mallum | I never looked what the switch was to get it back though :( |
| 23:40.59 | mallum | tsfini dont seem to close anything though :( |
| 23:42.10 | pb_ | KdUnregisterFds does that, I think. |
| 23:50.37 | mallum | pb_: okey tommorow if I get a mo, I expeeriment adding them and trying it out on my laptop |
| 23:50.44 | pb_ | ok, cool |
| 23:51.07 | pb_ | I will be out of action most of tomorrow, have to go to London for a funeral. |
| 23:51.29 | mallum | oh dear |
| 23:51.33 | mallum | hope it goes ok |
| 23:51.47 | pb_ | thanks :-) |
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