irclog2html for gpe on 2002.07.01

00:01:14mallumthis is interesting too;
00:01:16mallumhttp://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemacs/
00:02:49mallumbedtime for me now though
00:03:00mallumttyl
08:04:49It's great to be here.
08:04:49spungibot: welcome back
17:46:36morayhm, Oliver Fels doesn't want anyone to miss the fact that Opie exists, does he? ;)
17:57:18dc_wow
17:57:20dc_I'm here :}
17:57:22dc_hey guys, mallum :}
17:57:28spunghey dc_
17:57:37mallumdc_: ello
17:57:38dc_oh hey spung :D
17:57:48dc_I'm staying up in london
17:57:49dc_:/
17:58:01dc_and it's a 2 hour journy to school :#
17:58:21mallumdc_: cool, lets go down the pub
17:58:33dc_mallum: ;D
17:58:48dc_mallum: well, I'm near croydon
18:00:33dc_I'm just working on the new gpe-media gui :)
18:02:00mallumdc_: cool, with seperate toolbar control win and fullscreen option ? :))
18:02:56dc_mallum: well, toolbar controls, and popup playlist.
18:03:06dc_never thought of fullscreen, sounds cool :)
18:03:57spungdc_: have you considered adding some sort of pretty buttons to gpe-tetris?
18:04:04dc_mallum: any cool new mb developments?
18:04:12dc_spung: hrm
18:04:15dc_spung: an idea :}
18:04:17spungdc_: i don't know about the 3600.. but 3700 ipaq's buttons are a pain
18:04:23dc_spung: that would be very nice
18:04:48spungdc_: and add an option to put the either left or right...
18:05:00dc_spung: ce?
18:05:03spungdc_: ?
18:05:08dc_spung: sorry, explain?
18:05:59spungdc_: add an option to put them (the buttons) either left or right... because of the left-handed people.. if buttons are on the right they won't be able to touch the buttons and see the game :)
18:06:09dc_ahh
18:06:12dc_hrm
18:06:15dc_okay..
18:06:22dc_it's in my todo list.
18:06:25dc_it'd be nice
18:06:25spung:)
18:06:52spungdc_: make them big :)
18:07:37dc_Alternatively for a sophisticated graphical PDA user interface he can install
18:07:38dc_opie by installing task-opie from the feed found at http://www.opie.us or
18:07:38dc_http://www.opie.info
18:07:43dc_I hate opie guys sometimes :{
18:07:56dc_opie is cool..
18:08:03dc_but they just get anoying :{
18:08:19spungi wouldn't say it's sophisticated
18:08:38dc_either would I
18:08:52dc_mallum: so are we going to the pub :)?
18:08:53morayit does verge on become offensive spamming...
18:08:55spunggtk seems better for ipaq because stuff gets resized
18:09:27spungdc_: like.. try using opie in landscape mode... most apps won't work
18:09:32spungproperlly
18:09:46dc_silly
18:10:39mallumdc_: croydon is the otherside of london :(
18:11:10dc_damn :((
18:11:11spungloves his (small) city...
18:11:12dc_oh well
18:11:34moraywill be in central London later in the week, but not for very long (passing through, to then go on holiday for a week)
18:11:45spungi can go pretty much anywhere on foot
18:11:47spungahh :)
18:12:08dc_hrm
18:12:14dc_gnome2 is anoying
18:12:22dc_the images don;t display properly
18:12:23dc_:P
18:12:24dc_:{
18:12:24spungdc_: i heard gnome2 sucks
18:12:35dc_spung: well, atleast gedit2 is fun
18:12:39moray(I'll probably be in London one night at least - annoyingly my brother only has an old-fashioned modem ;)
18:12:49dc_moray: bah!
18:13:00dc_moray: I'm here on local rate dialup :{
18:13:13dc_hrm
18:13:15dc_gtk Q
18:13:21spungdc_: i'd like to install it... the only qt thing i use nowadays is er.. opie :) and kde (the kde panel, really, not much more)
18:13:25dc_if I have a gtk window
18:13:29moraydc_: are you having problems with the GNOME 2 images? which kind? I had problems, but it was really an X server bug - upgrading to 4.2 fixed it
18:13:42dc_and it's stored as, say main_window
18:13:48dc_and I display it etc..
18:13:59dc_then the user closes it.
18:14:01spungeverything i use are really gtk apps, galeon, evolution, pan :)
18:14:05dc_what will the varible read..?
18:14:36dc_moray: oh...well they don't display untill I put my mouse over them
18:14:39moraydc_: by default windows won't be destroyed when they're hidden - that only happens if you set up the callback to do so
18:14:46dc_moray: the desktop icons don't display
18:14:46moraydc_: sounds like what I was having
18:14:53dc_moray: okay.
18:14:57moraydc_: my problem was with a Matrox card
18:14:57dc_moray: lemme upgrade :)
18:15:04dc_ahh.
18:15:12spungi hate that file manager..
18:15:14dc_moray: well I have a G450 :)
18:15:15spungwhat's it called?
18:15:20dc_spung: nautilus
18:15:21dc_I think
18:15:22moraydc_: same card then
18:15:24dc_spung: slow it is
18:15:26spungnautilus sucks... it's slow
18:15:31morayit's much faster in GNOME 2
18:15:31dc_moray: dual :D
18:15:32spungits icons are huge
18:15:33morayapparently
18:15:38spungit's bigger than my screen
18:15:38dc_cool
18:15:43spungit's not usable at 800x600
18:15:44spung:\
18:15:45dc_moray: right, so I'll upgrade..
18:15:47morayspung: depends on the theme, and that's why there's a zoom
18:16:21dc_250 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 11  not upgraded.
18:16:21dc_Need to get 145MB/145MB of archives. After unpacking 16.3MB will be used.
18:16:22moraydc_: if you're using Debian then get packages via a mirror listed at http://people.debian.org/~branden/ - they're not in the main distribution yet AFAIK
18:16:26dc_that's not goood
18:16:34dc_moray: oh okay
18:16:36spungdc_: heh
18:16:40dc_dialup!
18:17:37dc_WTF happened to galeon :/
18:17:50moraydc_: ?
18:18:15dc_heh, the toolbars were hidden for some reasno :./
18:20:00spungdc_: fullscreen?
18:20:01spungahh
18:20:05spungi want a laptop :)
18:20:18dc_:/
18:20:28dc_preffers his dual monitors
18:21:12dc_brb food
18:21:14spungjeez
18:21:17spungam i the only one
18:21:24spungwho hasn't got two monitors?
18:21:50moraywonders how spung copes... ;)
18:22:24spungmoray: i'm thinking about a PLIP connection to an old 486 i have and x2x :)
18:23:08spung/tmp/net/ipaq/larry# freesci
18:23:09spungsh: /usr/local/bin/freesci: Permission denied
18:23:13morayspung: just having a text console on another monitor would probably be useful enough
18:23:15spungi love well packaged software
18:23:44spungmoray: indeed.. but i'd need two keyboards no?
18:23:55morayspung: true
18:24:08spungi have little space already :)
18:24:35morayspung: actually, I can think of ways to avoid needing an extra keyboard, but they're evil...
18:25:53moray(involving VNC sessions and 'screen' connected multiple times to the same session)
18:27:28spungmoray: is any way to link two X servers (like with x2x) in a way similar to xinemara?
18:27:31spungxinerama
18:27:45spunglike, at move some windows over there :)
18:37:51morayspung: not quite (unless there's something I haven't seen), but you could look at xmove:
18:37:55morayDescription: A Pseudoserver for moving programs between displays.
18:37:55moray xmove lets you change which display an X Window System program renders to
18:37:56moray - this could be a different monitor or even a different machine.
18:38:24spungthat's nice
18:38:46spungmoray: would a plip connection be enough for remote X11 ?
18:39:05morayspung: um, depends what you do over it ;)
18:39:09spungyeah
18:39:22spungxawtv is not usable they 100mbits ethernet :)
18:39:27morayif you have fonts stored locally to the xserver, and don't do anything too much with images it should work
18:39:46spungs/they/with
18:40:16morayhm, I've run xawtv of a webcam over wireless before I think...
18:40:22moraythough that wasn't full-screen
18:42:00spungoh well
18:42:05spungmaybe it was 10mbits
18:42:34morayit might depend more on the other network traffic etc.
18:51:15dc_back
18:51:17dc_mmmm..nice steak :}
18:51:33dc_moray: so how might I add this X11 feed to my sources.list file?
18:52:16moraydc_: well, I'm using:
18:52:21moraydeb http://gremlin.tharsis.co.uk/x4.2 sid/i386/
18:52:21moraydeb-src http://gremlin.tharsis.co.uk/x4.2 sid/source/
18:52:37morayjust add those somewhere in the file and it should work
18:52:53dc_cool :)
18:53:09morayyou'll then want to get approximately these:
18:53:29moray(ascendit) ~ dpkg -l  | grep 4.2.0-0pre1
18:53:30morayii  libdps1        4.2.0-0pre1v1  Display PostScript (DPS) client library
18:53:30morayii  libxaw6        4.2.0-0pre1v1  X Athena widget set library (version 6)
18:53:30morayii  libxaw7        4.2.0-0pre1v1  X Athena widget set library
18:53:30morayii  xbase-clients  4.2.0-0pre1v1  miscellaneous X clients
18:53:30morayii  xfonts-100dpi  4.2.0-0pre1v1  100 dpi fonts for X
18:53:33morayii  xfonts-75dpi   4.2.0-0pre1v1  75 dpi fonts for X
18:53:34morayii  xfonts-base    4.2.0-0pre1v1  standard fonts for X
18:53:36morayii  xfonts-scalabl 4.2.0-0pre1v1  scalable fonts for X
18:53:38morayii  xfree86-common 4.2.0-0pre1v1  X Window System (XFree86) infrastructure
18:53:40morayii  xlib6g         4.2.0-0pre1v1  pseudopackage providing X libraries
18:53:42morayii  xlibmesa3      4.2.0-0pre1v1  XFree86 version of Mesa 3D graphics library
18:53:44morayii  xlibs          4.2.0-0pre1v1  X Window System client libraries
18:53:46morayii  xlibs-dev      4.2.0-0pre1v1  X Window System client library development f
18:53:48morayii  xserver-common 4.2.0-0pre1v1  files and utilities common to all X servers
18:53:52morayii  xserver-xfree8 4.2.0-0pre1v1  the XFree86 X server
18:53:54morayii  xutils         4.2.0-0pre1v1  X Window System utility programs
18:54:15moraynote that that's really xserver-xfree86 and xfonts-scalable (truncated)
18:54:39dc_right
18:54:56dc_what about the funky matrox drivers
18:55:33moraydc_: I don't use the closed source HAL thing, so I don't know about that - I use the standard Matrox support in XFree86
18:55:54dc_moray: any difference :/
18:56:05dc_moray: that I might want to worry about?
18:56:18moraypresumably the closed source thing speeds something up? but I get on fine with my setup anyway
18:56:37morayyou *used* to need the closed source thing to get any acceleration, but that's not true now
18:57:15dc_right :}
18:57:56dc_moray: can you DCC me your XF86Coonfig-4 ?
18:58:12dc_moray: you're using dual monitor right?
18:58:19moraydc_: email would be easier for me (behind my firewall)
18:59:02dc_moray: n/p, dctanner@magenet.com
18:59:45moraydc_: ok, will send now - also you could look at 'mgapdesk', a utility that lets you configure stuff for Matrox cards
18:59:58dc_moray: yeah I got that
19:00:36dc_moray: you using xinerama?
19:01:12moraydc_: yes
19:01:18moray(email sent)
19:01:23dc_:)
19:02:00moray2002-07-01 20:05:16 17P6U4-00046A-00 => dctanner@magenet.com R=lookuphost T=remote_smtp H=morn.magenet.com [24.151.77.53]
19:02:12morayjust one hop presumably ;)
19:02:19dc_got it
19:02:28dc_moray: :)
19:02:49moray(I avoid my ISP's mail system, among other things.)
19:06:54dc_waits for apt-get to do its 'thing'
19:10:22spungmy ISP's mail system sucks too
19:10:26spungWindows NT :\
19:10:29spungor whatever
19:10:30mallumI just filled scap with lots of nice pre4 mb shots
19:16:40spungmallum: whooo.. nice theme... i miss the arrows to navigate thru the windows tho
19:18:33mallumspung: make a theme with them then
19:18:38mallumspung: depno has them
19:18:58spungmallum: damn... that kde panel looks very nice!!
19:19:21mallumspung: kde sucks ;)
19:19:57dc_spung: don't you ever say that
19:19:57dc_mallum: w000t
19:19:57dc_mallum: Aqua theme :DDDDDD
19:20:23dc_likes the mb panel :D
19:21:21dc_mallum: can we pleeeease have the that alpha support for mmenu?
19:21:26spungyeah
19:21:30spungi want alpha
19:21:31spung:)
19:21:40spungand themable
19:21:47spungi want mmenu to be themable
19:21:51spunglol
19:21:53mallumspung: it is
19:22:03dc_:}
19:22:03spungwith pixmaps?
19:22:15mallumspung: you know where the source is ....
19:22:20spungmallum: heh
19:22:28spungmallum: so, it's not themable?
19:22:38mallumspung: shut up
19:22:41spunglol
19:22:52dc_spung: you're pushing it :P
19:22:54spungmallum: i mean.. i'd have to edit source code right?
19:23:29spungokok
19:23:32spungi'll RTFM
19:23:39dc_spung: :)
19:23:54dc_mallum: so, where can we get this uberl33t theme ;D??
19:24:02dc_fetches his iPAQ
19:24:15spungdc_: you know where the source is
19:24:29spungi mean, if _I_ know
19:24:34spungi'm sure you do ;)
19:24:41mallumdc_: I just uploaded it to experimental
19:24:53dc_spung: ohhh right
19:25:00dc_spung: just testing me, sure?
19:25:52dc_spung: well, it _defently_ can't be in mallums' feed.
19:25:54dc_spung: can it?
19:26:06dc_spung: or at http://handhelds.org/~mallum/downloadables/mmenu/ could it?
19:26:33mallumdc_: I need to play with that alpha stuff again ...
19:27:23dc_cool
19:27:54dc_mallum: err umm, is the theme in mb pre4?
19:28:05mallumdc_: yep
19:28:07mallumdc_: akwa
19:28:14dc_right, coolo
19:29:02mallumspung: you still got exams ?
19:29:14dc_pattieja: :}
19:29:21pattieja:)
19:29:30dc_:)
19:29:34dc_welcome
19:29:38pattiejahello
19:29:39spungmallum: yes..
19:30:07spungmallum: my TODO list: gpe-today, xstroke improvments, xkbd docs, package the xkbd stuff i did
19:30:21mallumspung: when do your exams finish ?
19:30:30dc_mallum: how do I get mbdock the actualy save the current running dock apps?
19:30:51dc_spung: oh, don't forget, 'destroy the world'
19:31:01mallumdc_: it should just 'do it'
19:31:16mallumdc_: but make sure you upgrade to the ones in experimental
19:31:40dc_true, I shoudn't complain about an out of date package
19:31:43dc_:{
19:31:55dc_mallum: remind yourself to hit me next time we meet
19:32:20yiiiimallum:
19:32:26mallumyiiii: yes
19:32:38yiiiican you tell me something about gpe and matchbox
19:32:39dc_people..
19:32:42dc_everywhere
19:32:48yiiiii saw many packages for gpe
19:33:00dc_:)
19:33:03dc_many programs :D
19:33:19yiiiiyea
19:33:20mallumdc_: you need to remove any auto start up docks apps in /etc/X11/Xsession.d
19:33:55dc_mallum: yeah, thans
19:35:13yiiiiso gpe are just different programs like calender
19:35:18yiiiiand games and such?
19:35:34dc_yes, but they have a centeral lib
19:35:39spungmallum: in 2 or 3 weeks
19:35:46dc_so they operate alike
19:35:46mallumspung: ok
19:35:50dc_and can communicate.
19:36:02dc_yiiii: kind of like what gnome does.
19:36:10yiiiiwhen i install...which packages do you recommand
19:36:12yiiiii see
19:36:34dc_yiiii: well, you can just install gpe-edit gpe-calendar gpe-todo
19:36:42dc_yiiii: defently gpe-appmgr
19:36:53dc_yiiii: gpe-tetris :)
19:37:05yiiiihaha
19:37:07dc_yiiii: and I'm just working on the new gpe-media.
19:37:14yiiiicool
19:37:16yiiiii'll do that
19:37:22yiiiiand with the matchbocx
19:37:33dc_yeah
19:37:53yiiiii have the default windows maneger for familiar
19:38:03yiiiii don't know what it's called
19:38:06yiiiithe gray one
19:38:14yiiiiand it seems to have lots of bugs
19:38:24yiiiiis matchbox better
19:38:30spungyiiii: ion?
19:38:39spungyiiii: matchbox is very good :)
19:38:41mallumspung: could be old matchbox
19:38:55dc_yiiii: matchbox ownz me :D
19:38:56yiiiiit has a menu at the bottom
19:39:08mallumyiiii: what are the bugs ?
19:39:14spungmallum: the matchbox in familiar unstable doesn't seem unstable at all
19:39:14yiiiifor example
19:39:44dc_yeah mallum! make more unstable packages!!
19:39:47dc_;D
19:40:01yiiiiwhen i change the portrait to landscape mood...the menu gets cut off
19:40:02mallumdc_: Id love too, but too many people regard unstable as stable :(
19:40:18dc_heh
19:40:22mallumyiiii: thats a gtk-menu bug not a matchbox one
19:40:29mallumyiiii: use mmenu instead
19:40:40dc_yiiii: install mmenu :}
19:40:44dc_another mallum winner
19:40:44yiiiiwhat i'm saying is .....this window manneger i have sucks
19:40:50spungmallum: it's not people's fault... familiar's stable is terribly outdated
19:40:52yiiiii was just wondering if matchbox is better ; )
19:41:06yiiiithe one i have rightnow is def not matchbox
19:41:18mallumyiiii: can you pop up a term and do a 'ls -la /usr/bin/x-window-manager'
19:41:29yiiiimallum: ok
19:41:31spungyiiii: matchbox i good.. check out the aqua them in handhelds.org/scap
19:42:11yiiiiwell..it is matchobx
19:42:14yiiiii dont' get it
19:42:19dc_:/
19:42:23dc_very old then
19:42:48yiiiiso if i do the ipkg install on matchbox...i should get a newer version?
19:43:15mallumyiiii: it sounds like the bugs you are talking about arn't matchbox bugs at all
19:43:39yiiiimallum: what kind of bugs?
19:44:05dc_mallum: there's always an <unnamed> in the remove from panned menu.
19:44:23mallumdc_: yeah, I've just noticed that
19:44:33mallumdc_: I dont know yet what it is
19:44:43mallumdc_: I think it could be a rouge mmenu or xstroke
19:44:47dc_my fault
19:44:51dc_ytes
19:45:04dc_ew
19:45:08mallumdc_: mmenu needs a little updating to set its title
19:45:15dc_:)
19:45:29yiiiiso should i install the matchbox package from the familiar site?
19:46:22mallumyiiii: yeah maybe, but it depends what you want from a wm
19:46:37dc_yiiii: matchbox and mmenu from http://handhelds.org/~mallum/downloadables/experimental/ are much cooler :}
19:46:42mallumyiiii: Id like to know what the bugs are in it ?
19:47:15yiiiimallum: when i try to calibrate it...that option also doesn't work
19:47:53mallumyiiii: well thats nothing to do with matchbox
19:48:10yiiiii has to do with X i guess
19:48:13yiiiithat*
19:48:31dc_heh
19:48:34dc_:
19:48:55dc_mallum: sexy fonts in mb now :{
19:48:58dc_:}
19:48:58dc_:D
19:51:08mallumdc_: yeah I just made them bold
19:51:11dc_bah
19:51:16mallumdc_: and they look a lot better
19:51:39dc_mallum: mmenu 0.7pre0 still gives <unnamed>
19:53:13dc_ooh
19:53:17dc_everything is unnamed :/
19:53:53mallumdc_: yeah mmenu aint fixed yet :(
19:54:03mallumdc_: all the mini* apps should be named ?
19:54:07dc_OH RIGHT
19:54:16dc_ack
19:54:19dc_I really should remove that caos
19:54:19dc_caps
19:54:22dc_mallum: n/p
19:54:28mallum;)
19:54:31mallumtv time
19:54:49mallum( not eastenders - damn tennis f**ked my route to midnight :( )
19:56:23dc_mallum_tv: wait!
19:56:29dc_mallum_tv: mbcontrol
19:56:47dc_mallum_tv: how can I change the theme perm?
19:57:04dc_wow
19:57:10dc_I love this akwa theme :D
19:57:59dc_foobars mallum_tv and gets of the net
19:58:08dc_see you all tomorrow :}
19:59:27mallum_tvthe theme is now remembered

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