| 08:33:35 | mallum | mornin |
| 08:54:33 | pb_ | hey |
| 08:55:39 | mallum | hey pb_ |
| 08:57:48 | mallum | pb_: was thinking ... you that debian python script that strips down librarys for the debian boot disks - I wonder if I could use that against xlib for a quick way of getting it smaller ? |
| 08:58:16 | pb_ | mallum: might be worth a try, but it needs a libx11_pic.a to operate on. |
| 08:58:30 | pb_ | mallum: the script itself is in debian unstable now, "apt-get install mklibs" should fetch it. |
| 08:59:04 | mallum | pb_: whats libx11_pic.a ? |
| 08:59:24 | mallum | pb_: I hate the way x uses imakefiles :( |
| 09:00:20 | pb_ | mallum: it's an "ar" archive of pic objects. You could try with straight libX11.a first, to see if you get any worthwhile savings. |
| 09:00:39 | pb_ | mallum: yah, imake always struck me as a fairly ghastly system. |
| 09:02:19 | mallum | pb_: pic is just the method the library loader users to locate symbols etc - right ? |
| 09:03:21 | pb_ | mallum: not quite. PIC is Position Independent Code; if you build a library out of non-pic objects (e.g the ones in libX11.a) it will still work, but won't actually be shared in memory - each process will get its own copy. |
| 09:05:04 | mallum | hmm, apt is giving me a 404 on mklibs ( even after update ... ) |
| 09:05:20 | pb_ | hmph, okay, lemme check on auric. |
| 09:05:54 | mallum | pb_: this is on powerpc but its going for the all package so it shouldn't matter |
| 09:05:57 | pb_ | well, it's definitely there, what mirror are you using? |
| 09:06:03 | pb_ | -rw-rw-r-- 1 katie debadmin 6594 Jun 11 16:17 mklibs_0.1_all.deb |
| 09:08:04 | mallum | Failed to fetch http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/m/mklibs/mklibs_0.1_all.deb 404 Not Found [IP: 204.152.189.120 80] |
| 09:09:12 | pb_ | well, that's bizarre. |
| 09:09:46 | mallum | pb_: worked now ! |
| 09:09:59 | pb_ | mallum: you probably just drew a duff mirror in the DNS rotation then. |
| 09:10:04 | mallum | pb_: probably telewests damn transparent proxy |
| 09:10:16 | pb_ | mallum: right, yeah, or that. |
| 09:10:50 | mallum | pb_: it probably cached the original 404 ( before the update ) |
| 09:10:58 | pb_ | :-( |
| 09:44:33 | spung | mallum: what was that about setting some window propreties in order for matchbox to make it sort of fullscreen? |
| 09:44:54 | spung | oh, morning people :) |
| 09:44:58 | spung | is back (gone 00:37:30) |
| 09:47:42 | mallum | spung: is this for the today app ? |
| 09:48:09 | spung | yes |
| 10:05:05 | mallum | spung: you really want to set it to be a desktop window then. That way it will drop behind everying ( dock etc ) and stay there |
| 10:06:00 | mallum | spung: you want to set a _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE atom to hold a _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_DESKTOP atom |
| 10:06:29 | mallum | spung: if you check the code for gtk-menu in hh.org cvs ( apps/gtk-menu ) you'll see how to do it in gtk |
| 10:06:49 | mallum | spung: that sets it type to dock though, but to change it is trivial |
| 10:07:01 | spung | mallum: but it'd be useful to make it as if it was one of those desktop apps that hold icons |
| 10:07:58 | mallum | spung: exactly |
| 10:08:03 | mallum | spung: thats what it'll do |
| 10:08:30 | mallum | spung: though we still have the problem of getting at the desktop with the windows covering it |
| 10:08:43 | spung | mallum: but it's not so good being behind the dock :\ |
| 10:08:48 | mallum | spung: but I'll add a command to mbcontrol to do this |
| 10:08:51 | mallum | spung: why ? |
| 10:09:05 | spung | because text might get displayed under it |
| 10:09:23 | mallum | spung: well make sure it dont then :) |
| 10:09:31 | spung | how would i know that? |
| 10:09:32 | mallum | spung: remember the dock can be collapsed |
| 10:10:13 | mallum | spung: query the list of windows that are child of the root. find the one which is of type dock, grab its geometry ... |
| 10:10:28 | spung | mallum: ok, thanks |
| 10:11:06 | spung | is away: actually, I *am* here. I'm just not paying attention to you |
| 10:11:06 | mallum | spung: I can always hack that bit in for you if it becomes a problem |
| 10:11:18 | spung | ok thx |
| 10:11:24 | spung | i gotta go study now |
| 10:22:01 | pb_ | yay, my bluetooth access point is working at last. |
| 10:22:15 | pb_ | now I can set up a wireless web server on my ipaq and get myself on slashdot :-) |
| 10:24:00 | mallum | pb_: heh |
| 10:24:11 | mallum | pb_: I gotta get a bluetooth phone ... they rock |
| 10:25:43 | pb_ | mallum: sure do, they're still pretty expensive though. |
| 10:27:22 | mallum | pb_: yes and I have no jpb :( |
| 10:27:29 | mallum | job rather |
| 10:27:33 | pb_ | mallum: :-( |
| 10:28:23 | pb_ | is it easy to run OPIE on a desktop machine, d'ya know? |
| 10:28:39 | mallum | pb_: hmmm, no idea |
| 10:29:04 | mallum | pb_: Id suspect not, becuse it doesn't compile against usual qt ( I *think* ) |
| 10:29:12 | mallum | pb_: maybe ask on #opie ? |
| 10:29:15 | pb_ | mallum: ah, that's a shame. |
| 10:29:30 | pb_ | mallum: I thought the idea of qt-embedded was that it had the same API as qt-x11. |
| 10:31:06 | mallum | pb_: yes I think qte will |
| 10:31:17 | spung | damn, is everyone unemployed around here? :( |
| 10:31:18 | mallum | pb_: but I think opied broke some stuff |
| 10:31:25 | pb_ | mallum: ah, I see |
| 10:31:46 | pb_ | spung: no, I'm gainfully employed |
| 10:31:56 | spung | pb_: heh, what do you do? |
| 10:32:05 | mallum | spung: you and dc are student scum ;) |
| 10:32:13 | spung | heh =) |
| 10:32:17 | mallum | spung: moray and daveH work I think |
| 10:32:24 | pb_ | spung: see www.nexus.co.uk |
| 10:32:29 | pb_ | mallum: DaveH is unemployed too. |
| 10:32:38 | mallum | cool, a soulmate |
| 10:33:10 | mallum | does daily jobserve check |
| 10:41:40 | spung | i don't get it |
| 10:41:59 | mallum | spung: life ? |
| 10:42:05 | spung | everyone around here says informatics engineering is a degree with lots of jobs |
| 10:42:26 | spung | that students get highly paid jobs before they even get their degrees |
| 10:42:46 | spung | mallum: wanna come live to portugal? =) |
| 10:43:07 | mallum | spung: my best mate just moved to grand caneria |
| 10:43:14 | mallum | ( or however you spell it ) |
| 10:43:19 | spung | grand what? |
| 10:43:29 | mallum | spanish island |
| 10:43:36 | spung | oh, the "canarias" |
| 10:43:54 | mallum | yeah |
| 10:44:03 | spung | oh well |
| 10:44:11 | mallum | I dont have an informatics engineering degree though ;) |
| 10:44:21 | spung | what then? |
| 10:45:17 | spung | mallum: maths? ahahah =) |
| 10:45:19 | mallum | crap physics degree |
| 10:45:36 | spung | physics is nice =) |
| 10:45:37 | mallum | more maths than a maths degree ;) |
| 10:45:46 | mallum | spung: not until you do it at degree |
| 10:46:05 | mallum | spung: then it becomes a mass of statistics |
| 10:46:07 | spung | mallum: you can be a teacher, hah |
| 10:46:21 | mallum | spung: Id quite like that |
| 10:46:55 | mallum | spung: if they pay was any good and Id wouldn't have to run the fear of kids trying to stab me everyday |
| 10:47:02 | spung | lol |
| 10:47:06 | spung | right.. |
| 10:47:36 | spung | my mum is a teacher, they stole her money a few weeks ago |
| 10:47:42 | pb_ | mallum: yah, all the teachers I know have either changed to another job or moved to another country. |
| 10:48:30 | spung | oh well, back to study |
| 10:48:31 | mallum | pb_: yes, its a discgrace |
| 10:48:47 | mallum | pb_: look how badly I was taught to spell for example |
| 10:48:51 | mallum | pb_: ;) |
| 10:49:05 | pb_ | mallum: heh :-) |
| 10:50:00 | mallum | pb_: I would really love to teach, even maths |
| 10:50:59 | mallum | pb_: Id make it exciting though, throwing in a bit of history |
| 10:51:04 | spung | yeah |
| 10:51:19 | spung | mallum: i had one or two math teachers like that |
| 10:51:25 | spung | those were my favourite |
| 10:51:38 | spung | and those gave me the best grades |
| 10:52:35 | spung | mallum: hey, teachaaa |
| 10:53:09 | spung | mallum: how much is lim(x->0+) ln(x) ? |
| 10:53:37 | mallum | spung: my teachers were crap :( my maths teacher was a thug who 'upgraded' from notorious PE teacher |
| 10:53:51 | spung | lol |
| 10:54:13 | spung | mallum: how much is it tho? |
| 10:56:13 | mallum | spung: figure it out yourself ... If I tell you , you wont learn anything ... :) |
| 10:56:22 | spung | heh |
| 10:56:26 | spung | fair enough |
| 10:56:30 | spung | back to study |
| 10:56:30 | mallum | spung: I wont be there when you sitting your exam paper |
| 10:57:06 | spung | it's probably -oo |
| 10:57:08 | spung | but i'll check |
| 11:00:35 | mallum | hmmm good idea |
| 11:27:25 | pb_ | mallum: are there ipkgs for the new matchbox now? |
| 11:28:46 | mallum | pb_: working on it |
| 11:28:53 | pb_ | mallum: cool |
| 11:29:08 | mallum | pb_: there's unfortunatly still a few slightly critical bits and bugs |
| 11:29:18 | pb_ | mallum: ha. |
| 11:29:37 | mallum | pb_: BTW, do you know how to get autoconf to cat the data onto the version ? |
| 11:30:07 | mallum | pb_: I need to do some work on the dock, fix theme loading and then its hopefully ready |
| 11:30:52 | pb_ | mallum: nope, sorry |
| 11:56:25 | spung | mallum: it is -oo right? |
| 11:58:39 | mallum | spung: think so |
| 11:59:00 | mallum | spung: my math is _very_ rusty though |
| 11:59:16 | spung | this limits stuff |
| 11:59:19 | spung | it sucks |
| 11:59:30 | spung | it's the stuff i know worse |
| 12:00:47 | pb_ | heh |
| 12:05:11 | spung | and this stupid has some solutions wrong |
| 12:05:18 | spung | and this stupid book has some solutions wrong |
| 12:05:28 | spung | which confuses me even more |
| 12:06:50 | spung | http://www.slashdot.org/palm/ -- the best way to read slashdot... (better than that afterslash.org thing) |
| 12:06:55 | spung | alter |
| 12:08:06 | mallum | I always call it after as well |
| 12:08:15 | spung | To sum up the settlement, AudioGalaxy will pay the RIAA a lot of money and from now only provide songs for which the copyright holder has specifically given permission. |
| 12:08:22 | spung | god damn it |
| 12:35:26 | spung | gnutella sucks |
| 12:35:35 | spung | i have like 5 incoming 1 outgoing |
| 12:42:56 | spung | and it sucks bandwidth like hell |
| 12:46:39 | pb_ | hmm, not enough network connections in this damn office |
| 12:46:48 | mallum | I guess we need to think about a sound deamon for gpe |
| 12:46:54 | pb_ | mallum: good idea |
| 12:47:04 | pb_ | mallum: what does gnome have these days? |
| 12:47:13 | mallum | pb_: gnome uses esound |
| 12:47:25 | mallum | pb_: I dont know much about it |
| 12:47:33 | pb_ | mallum: hmm, right |
| 12:47:38 | mallum | pb_: idealy we need something that can convert sample rates too |
| 12:47:53 | pb_ | mallum: well, esd has the benefit of wide application support, stuff like SDL knows how to talk to it already I think. |
| 12:47:56 | spung | sound daemon?? |
| 12:48:07 | spung | sound daemon's are evil! |
| 12:48:18 | pb_ | mallum: hmm, yah, I have a feeling esd might be able to do resampling as well, but I'm not sure. |
| 12:48:20 | mallum | spung: *sigh* |
| 12:48:24 | pb_ | I'll consult the source. |
| 12:48:29 | mallum | pb_: cool |
| 12:48:35 | spung | what's the point of using a sound daemon? |
| 12:48:43 | pb_ | spung: to get sound |
| 12:48:43 | mallum | spung: to annoy you |
| 12:48:45 | spung | they block /dev/dsp ... :\ |
| 12:48:53 | pb_ | spung: sure, something has to. |
| 12:49:03 | spung | why? |
| 12:49:25 | pb_ | wonders whether spung will complain about X "blocking /dev/fb0" next |
| 12:49:38 | spung | but |
| 12:49:52 | moray | spung: in this context you could think of the resampling being useful though, since not everything currently copes with the ipaq's sound setup |
| 12:49:59 | spung | tell me, what is the advantage of using a sound daemon? |
| 12:50:08 | spung | ohh, ok |
| 12:50:11 | moray | though I agree somewhat - I don't use one on my desktop in fact... |
| 12:50:22 | mallum | spung: and to mix sounds ... |
| 12:50:25 | mallum | moray: me niether |
| 12:50:28 | spung | in the desktop it's useless nowadays |
| 12:50:38 | mallum | moray: but then I run fuckall on my desktop |
| 12:50:41 | spung | mallum: most drivers/soundcards (?) mix them anyway |
| 12:50:52 | moray | generally if I'm listening to music I don't *want* silly sounds interrupting it ;) |
| 12:51:24 | mallum | moray: but it could be important on gpe, if the calender wants to signal you of an event |
| 12:51:42 | moray | mallum: indeed |
| 12:51:54 | moray | these things presumably don't need to be too big? |
| 12:52:08 | mallum | spung: well plug one of them into your ipaq and dont use the deamon ;) |
| 12:52:19 | pb_ | moray: right |
| 12:52:25 | mallum | moray: yep |
| 12:52:32 | pb_ | 28989 968 16448 46405 b545 /usr/bin/esd |
| 12:52:36 | pb_ | that's on my desktop |
| 12:53:10 | moray | are there significant differences between the competing ones, or do they only exist because different projects created them? |
| 12:53:34 | spung | moray: i'm sure it's the latter |
| 12:54:30 | spung | KDE vs GNOME i guess |
| 12:54:37 | pb_ | moray: I think spung is probably right. It's a shame X didn't include network-transparent audio from the get-go really. |
| 12:54:52 | moray | pb_: there are older projects for that, like NAS |
| 12:55:13 | mallum | pb_: I believe at some point in time jg was working on exactly that |
| 12:55:25 | pb_ | moray: right, but no single one seems to have gained "critical mass" as it were. |
| 12:55:43 | pb_ | moray: whereas the great thing about X is, anybody who is anybody has it. |
| 12:55:58 | spung | network-transparent audio would be verrryy nice |
| 12:56:05 | moray | (we used NAS some time to feed audio to the 486 in the kitchen of a shared house ;) - that was on the floor below the X terminal and the webcam...) |
| 12:56:12 | pb_ | mallum: ah, jg is clearly an even greater guy than I thought. |
| 12:56:25 | spung | do esd/arts provide that? |
| 12:56:27 | mallum | pb_: also when X was being developed I think networks were probably too slow to put audio over them |
| 12:56:54 | pb_ | mallum: maybe, but they had 10base5 back in those days, didn't they? |
| 12:57:20 | spung | mallum: networks are kind of slow for image too |
| 12:57:23 | mallum | pb_: http://www.handhelds.org/People/jg.html |
| 12:57:31 | mallum | spung: X originally didn't have color |
| 12:57:39 | spung | mallum: ahh, really? =) |
| 12:57:45 | moray | the problem's more just that most Unix people have traditionally found the terminal beep to be quite enough sound... |
| 12:57:52 | mallum | pb_: AF is was called, link is down now though :( |
| 12:58:00 | spung | my beep sucks |
| 12:58:14 | moray | spung: you should be able to change the pitch/duration at least... |
| 12:58:42 | spung | moray: yeah, it doesn't beep often anyway... only openoffice beeps.. |
| 13:00:05 | mallum | moray: apt-get install beep |
| 13:00:12 | moray | spung: hm, I think there remain greater problems with openoffice than the beep ;) |
| 13:00:14 | pb_ | mallum: yeah, so I see. |
| 13:01:34 | moray | mallum: yes, but X lets you set those anyway, I thought? (can't remember the appropriate incantation offhand though) |
| 13:01:56 | pb_ | mallum: I checked the esd source, it does seem to be able to do sample rate conversion. |
| 13:02:29 | pb_ | mallum: and, in fact, putting my thinking head on for a moment, you pretty much _must_ be able to do rate conversion if you want to be able to mix sound coming from arbitrary sources. |
| 13:03:10 | pb_ | what sample rates does the iPAQ audio output support? right now, esd seems to be hardwired for 44.1kHz, 16 bit, stereo. |
| 13:05:09 | spung | is going crazy with this limits stuff |
| 13:06:18 | mallum | pb_: yep I think thats all it supports |
| 13:06:57 | mallum | pb_: and alan cox will castrate anyone that trys to make the driver do anything else |
| 13:07:07 | pb_ | mallum: ah, seredipity. |
| 13:08:17 | pb_ | mallum: I'll try building esd for arm then, see how big it turns out. |
| 13:08:54 | mallum | pb_: cool |
| 13:09:09 | mallum | pb_: my arm box is downloading X source at the moemnt |
| 13:09:33 | mallum | pb_: Im getting this new preview 4.2 deb source |
| 13:09:51 | mallum | pb_: I can kill a few birds with one stone then |
| 13:10:35 | mallum | pb_: play with making xlib smaller, build some 4.2 arm debs and maybe have a look at making a deb package of tinyX |
| 13:12:15 | pb_ | mallum: -rwxr-xr-x 1 pb pb 33060 Jun 18 14:16 esd |
| 13:12:28 | mallum | pb_: cool |
| 13:12:35 | pb_ | I had to butcher the code a bit to make it build without libaudiofile, it didn't seem like that was something we'd be wanting. |
| 13:13:56 | pb_ | ah, hmm, it looks like these might needed too, I'm not sure: |
| 13:13:59 | pb_ | -rwxr-xr-x 1 pb pb 24036 Jun 18 14:17 libesd.so.0.2.23 |
| 13:14:03 | pb_ | -rwxr-xr-x 1 pb pb 8624 Jun 18 14:17 libesddsp.so.0.2.23 |
| 13:14:13 | pb_ | still, they aren't all that massive, I'm sure we can cope. |
| 13:17:12 | cmarqu | Hi all. |
| 13:17:33 | cmarqu | About sound daemons... asd is supposed to be a nicer replacement for esd |
| 13:17:47 | cmarqu | asd.sf.net IIRC. |
| 13:19:02 | pb_ | cmarqu: well, it's not clear from the web site that we would gain much benefit from it. |
| 13:19:19 | pb_ | cmarqu: but, it claims to be a drop-in replacement, so I guess anybody who feels like installing it could just replace esd and be in business. |
| 13:20:23 | cmarqu | Yup. |
| 13:21:06 | cmarqu | And i guess the author would happily fix things for us if needed in order to get "recognition". |
| 13:21:35 | cmarqu | esd is dead in terms of maintainance AFAIK |
| 13:21:43 | pb_ | cmarqu: right |
| 13:22:57 | pb_ | cmarqu: my concern with asd is really that it has all these cool new features like synthesis that might push the binary size up. |
| 13:23:10 | pb_ | cmarqu: but, we'll see, I guess someone ought to try to compile it. |
| 13:23:26 | cmarqu | Yeah, maybe it's a compile option or so. |
| 13:24:21 | cmarqu | "Low latency mode for telephony-applications." sounds good. |
| 13:24:29 | mallum | asd is dependant on libxml2 :( |
| 13:24:47 | pb_ | mallum: well, we're probably gonna end up with libxml2 anyway, so that's not the end of the world. |
| 13:24:49 | cmarqu | For "Saving of different server layouts to XML" I guess. |
| 13:24:57 | pb_ | mallum: right now, gpe-contacts is dependent on libxml2 as well :-| |
| 13:25:20 | mallum | pb_: ouch |
| 13:25:20 | spung | pb_: hah.. libxml2 AND sqlite.. now that's odd |
| 13:25:20 | pb_ | mallum: though admittedly, I'm a little embarrassed about that. |
| 13:25:43 | pb_ | spung: it stores the editing layout in XML. :-/ |
| 13:26:18 | cmarqu | Argh. "Last modified: Sun Jun 10, 2001 02:27:11 PM" -- I read 2002 there initially. |
| 13:26:52 | pb_ | cmarqu: well, that may just mean that the ASD author is a 1337 h4x0r who doesn't spend much time writing web pages |
| 13:26:58 | pb_ | cmarqu: or that he forgot to update the date :-) |
| 13:27:15 | cmarqu | Looking in CVs, but SF is soooo slow for me... |
| 13:27:41 | mallum | pb_: may be able to swicth it over to the mini parser matchbox uses when I toughen it up a little |
| 13:27:58 | mallum | pb_: as longs as its pretty basic xml |
| 13:28:06 | moray | incidentally, is the policy still meant to be that it's a great idea for everything to happen as root? |
| 13:28:26 | cmarqu | hopes not |
| 13:28:34 | pb_ | cmarqu: yah, I just got "operation timed out" too. |
| 13:28:41 | pb_ | moray: what kind of stuff do you mean? |
| 13:28:51 | pb_ | mallum: cool, yeah, it's the most basic xml. |
| 13:29:10 | pb_ | mallum: see, er, gpe/base/gpe-contacts/contacts-layout.xml |
| 13:29:10 | moray | pb_: well, like usual user processes (gpe-*...) |
| 13:29:24 | pb_ | moray: no, they should run as some other user. |
| 13:29:53 | pb_ | thinking of which, mallum, how do you get access to the iPAQ buttons - do they show up as X events? |
| 13:30:01 | mallum | pb_: yep |
| 13:30:08 | pb_ | cool |
| 13:30:11 | moray | pb_: right, AFAICS that's far more sensible: anyone know if standard familiar is doing anything about this, or should we work out what needs to be done? |
| 13:30:12 | mallum | pb_: they have wierd keysyms |
| 13:30:39 | cmarqu | The asd-ng module has had checkins 4 weeks ago. |
| 13:30:41 | pb_ | moray: well, I think we have everything in place, I dunno what exactly standard familiar's plans are. |
| 13:30:47 | pb_ | cmarqu: cool |
| 13:30:50 | mallum | pb_: if(!strcmp(keycode_str,"calendar")) { keycode = 130; } |
| 13:30:50 | mallum | else if(!strcmp(keycode_str,"phone")) { keycode = 131; } |
| 13:30:50 | mallum | else if(!strcmp(keycode_str,"mail")) { keycode = 132; } |
| 13:30:50 | mallum | else if(!strcmp(keycode_str,"start")) { keycode = 133; } |
| 13:30:50 | mallum | else if(!strcmp(keycode_str,"record")) { keycode = 128; } |
| 13:30:59 | pb_ | mallum: ha, thanks |
| 13:31:16 | mallum | pb_: there are keysyms too, which I should be using really ..... |
| 13:32:14 | moray | pb_: ok - the only possible problem areas I can think of are some of the current familiar programs assuming only global configuration files are needed / that these can be written to |
| 13:32:30 | pb_ | moray: hmm, right. |
| 13:32:53 | pb_ | moray: I do get some kind of "permission denied" type errors when I log in, from stuff like xstroke I think. |
| 13:33:06 | cmarqu | They have asd2, asd3, asd4, asd-ng. I guess it's good, shows that they don't drag along a crappy design (hoping that these are redesigns). |
| 13:33:26 | pb_ | cmarqu: well, yeah, so long as they arrive at a good design eventually and stick to it :-) |
| 13:33:35 | cmarqu | :) |
| 13:33:50 | mallum | pb_: I believe xstroke trys to create stuff in /var/log ! |
| 13:34:19 | pb_ | mallum: yeah, probably. Just a minute, I'll try it again. |
| 13:36:05 | mallum | come on korea !!! |
| 13:36:26 | pb_ | log_init: Warning: Failed to mkdir /var/log/xstroke: Permission denied |
| 13:36:26 | pb_ | log_init: Warning: logging to /var/log/xstroke/strokes.log will be disabled |
| 13:36:26 | pb_ | log_init: Warning: Failed to mkdir /var/log/xstroke: Permission denied |
| 13:36:27 | pb_ | log_init: Warning: logging to /var/log/xstroke/errors.log will be disabled |
| 13:36:27 | spung | bahh |
| 13:36:28 | pb_ | :-/ |
| 13:36:29 | spung | die korea die |
| 13:37:01 | pb_ | plus one "Unable to open /dev/touchscreen/0", not sure what program said that. |
| 13:37:26 | mallum | IMHO xstroke is pretty bloated |
| 13:37:46 | moray | hm, ideally there should be a system for giving ownership of touchscreen etc. to whoever's logged in locally |
| 13:38:13 | moray | mallum: I'm also unconvinced by the method it uses for deciding what you've written... |
| 13:38:15 | mallum | moray: X will run as root and will own it |
| 13:38:17 | pb_ | moray: well, I dunno, are programs really entitled to be poking directly at /dev/touchscreen anyway? |
| 13:38:25 | moray | pb_: possibly not in fact |
| 13:38:56 | mallum | pb_: it could be the backlight control bl ? |
| 13:39:05 | moray | pb_: what hardware do people need to be able to talk to? |
| 13:39:06 | pb_ | mallum: ah, very likely. |
| 13:39:10 | pb_ | moray: none |
| 13:40:45 | moray | obviously there needs to be some way of setting the brightness, but that probably is the only thing (and that shouldn't be done by the user having rights to randomly poke the hardware) |
| 13:41:02 | pb_ | moray: yeah, agreed. |
| 13:41:18 | pb_ | moray: well, if need be, we can make "bl" setuid root or something. |
| 13:41:34 | moray | obviously we need the user to by default have access to sound (and anything else?) too |
| 13:41:52 | pb_ | moray: sure. hopefully esd or whatever will cater for that. |
| 13:42:27 | pb_ | moray: or we could just do what traditional distributions seem to, and make the audio-related /dev/stuff effectively writeable by everyone. |
| 13:43:37 | pb_ | moray: or, as a third option, we could add some hook to gpe-login to have it run a script just before it gives up root, which could take care of chowning any devices to the user who's logging in. |
| 13:43:39 | moray | pb_: well, the question would then be whether it was writable by the whole users group or just an audio group - I suppose if there was a separate group we could still put users into that group by default |
| 13:44:10 | pb_ | moray: yeah, I'm not sure whether people will have much use for groups on a PDA to be honest. |
| 13:44:43 | pb_ | moray: at the moment, I think gpe-login creates a separate group for every user and puts them in it. |
| 13:45:08 | moray | pb_: but I could imagine e.g. a scenario where someone wanted to use lots of identical ipaqs with different people - when you're using one you want sound, but you don't want your friends to be able to ssh in and play sounds (perhaps) |
| 13:45:48 | moray | of course, as long as we don't do anything silly people can always set things up in more complex ways than the default |
| 13:45:54 | pb_ | moray: agreed. |
| 13:46:36 | pb_ | moray: I suppose one way to deal with the sound thing is to run esd as the user, rather than as root, and accept connections only from them. Then when you log in, your esd will sit on /dev/dsp and stop anyone else being able to get at it. |
| 13:47:14 | moray | true, that would seem to give the correct behaviour in a simple way |
| 13:47:17 | pb_ | moray: obviously, there's the possibility for some malefactor to ssh in first and grab /dev/dsp for themselves, but that's probably getting a bit too esoteric. |
| 13:47:41 | moray | well yes, and equally someone might want to be able to do that for good reasons (potentially) |
| 13:48:08 | pb_ | okay, well, cool, let's do that then. |
| 13:49:19 | mallum | moray: more worrying would be ppl ssh'ing in and reading /dev/dsp :) |
| 13:49:49 | moray | ha, true... |
| 13:50:01 | spung | lol, don't you need a password to ssh in? |
| 13:50:03 | spung | =) |
| 13:50:05 | mallum | I think that was an old sun problem .... |
| 13:50:23 | moray | spung: yes, but we're thinking about multi-user situations here, where you trust people to different degrees etc. |
| 13:50:32 | mallum | early sparc had the mike world readable |
| 13:50:36 | mallum | I think |
| 13:50:36 | spung | oh ok |
| 13:51:01 | mallum | korea have won !!!!!! |
| 13:51:17 | mallum | just beat italy on golden goal |
| 13:51:31 | spung | damn |
| 13:53:35 | pb_ | mallum: wahey! |
| 13:56:41 | pb_ | I'll try and make some ipkgs of a sound daemon later today. |
| 13:57:16 | pb_ | then, we need to figure out how to make stuff like esd-media use it. |
| 13:57:26 | pb_ | uh, gpe-media, dammit |
| 13:58:18 | mallum | pb_: it'd be cool if gpe-media existed as a toolbar win like xkbd |
| 13:58:36 | mallum | pb_: for playing video it'd just open a seperate 'main' window |
| 13:58:39 | pb_ | mallum: hmm, yeah, excellent idea |
| 13:58:53 | pb_ | mallum: I kind of half think that the video player ought to be a separate application anyway |
| 13:59:48 | mallum | pb_: well if it exists as a toolbar window they fit togeather anyway |
| 13:59:56 | pb_ | mallum: true enough |
| 14:00:10 | mallum | pb_: you just have the controls in a toolbar window. if its video it opens a main window |
| 14:00:37 | pb_ | mallum: what do you need to do to be a toolbar window, just the _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_TOOLBAR thing? |
| 14:00:46 | pb_ | mallum: right, yeah |
| 14:00:46 | mallum | pb_: yep |
| 14:00:53 | pb_ | okay, cool |
| 14:00:58 | mallum | pb_: see the source of gtk-menu on how to do it |
| 14:01:11 | pb_ | I'll download mibus's gpe-media thing and see if I can beat it into submission. |
| 14:01:24 | mallum | pb_: famplayer is nice |
| 14:01:32 | mallum | pb_: it plays mp3's as well as video |
| 14:01:40 | pb_ | mallum: so I hear, I haven't actually even run either of them |
| 14:01:51 | pb_ | mallum: guess I should try them out |
| 14:01:59 | mallum | pb_: famplayer is very nice |
| 14:02:07 | mallum | pb_: and Im a parrot |
| 14:02:09 | mallum | :) |
| 14:02:18 | pb_ | :-) |
| 14:02:29 | cmarqu | Uh. I hope we don't get sued by http://www.gpemedia.nl/ :) |
| 14:02:45 | pb_ | ha! |
| 14:02:48 | mallum | pb_: quick c question is there a quick way for me to catch the output of a system('') type call ? |
| 14:03:20 | pb_ | mallum: popen()? |
| 14:04:09 | pb_ | cmarqu: actually, I'd be more concerned about the GNU people getting upset with us for calling it the "GNU Palmtop Environment" |
| 14:04:32 | cmarqu | Hmm. |
| 14:04:59 | cmarqu | Just name it "General Palmtop Environment" then... |
| 14:05:02 | moray | pb_: indeed, they're likely to speak to us sooner or later unless we first make it an offical GNU project... |
| 14:05:37 | moray | cmarqu: well, or just GPE Palmtop Environment or whatever in the usual tradition |
| 14:05:48 | cmarqu | Yeah. |
| 14:05:55 | mallum | pb_: yah popen ... I was hoping for something I could do in 1 line ... I'll do that later |
| 14:06:43 | cmarqu | Hmm, where is mibus' gpe-media page? |
| 14:06:46 | pb_ | moray: yeah, or indeed just "G Palmtop Environment" a la KDE. But it might be kind of nice to have it be an official gnu project. |
| 14:06:51 | pb_ | cmaruq: www.handhelds.org/~mibus |
| 14:07:03 | cmarqu | pb_: Thx. |
| 14:07:35 | moray | pb_: I'd certainly be perfectly happy for it to be an official GNU thing, though it would mean slightly more paperwork would be needed to sort things out... |
| 14:08:05 | pb_ | moray: in terms of assigning copyright to the FSF, you mean, or something else? |
| 14:08:08 | spung | omfg, i can't find my ID card.. i can't do the exam without it |
| 14:08:23 | pb_ | spung: ah, there's the excuse you were looking for |
| 14:08:24 | moray | pb_: yes, copyright stuff I meant |
| 14:09:00 | spung | pb_: excuse? i wan't to get in college! |
| 14:09:08 | cmarqu | Hmm, shouldn't http://www.handhelds.org/projects/GPE/ be dead or point to gpe.hh.org? |
| 14:09:09 | pb_ | spung: ah |
| 14:09:21 | pb_ | cmarqu: yeah, but I don't think anybody except nils has the privs. |
| 14:09:32 | cmarqu | Hmm. |
| 14:11:47 | pb_ | moray: mmm, well, I suppose if we wanted to sign the copyright over, the sooner the better -- much more difficult to do it when large numbers of people start to contribute. Seems like an idea that might be worth considering though, I'll float it with dc and mccarthy, though I have no idea at all what the legal situation is vis-a-vis code that dc writes. |
| 14:12:07 | moray | pb_: sounds good |
| 14:13:08 | pb_ | and, I suppose, Nils probably ought to be involved in any effort to sign over ownership of his project to some other organisation, but I dunno if he's still even interested in GPE, haven't heard from him in months. |
| 14:15:17 | cmarqu | I guess dc's parents would have to sign for him... |
| 14:16:17 | spung | mine too |
| 14:17:37 | pb_ | cmarqu: yeah, possibly, but I don't know if even that would work. If his parents sign a contract now, would it be enforceable against dc once he reaches 18? |
| 14:17:55 | cmarqu | I added a link to mibus' home page in CVs. But how does it migrate to http://gpe.handhelds.org/projects/GPE-media.shtml ? |
| 14:18:13 | pb_ | cmarqu: log in to handhelds.org, cd /home/gpe, run website-update.sh |
| 14:18:29 | cmarqu | pb_: Hmm, dunno. But I guess there have been many cases like that before. |
| 14:18:41 | moray | pb_: presumably there must be some defined legal situation. though I expect it's treated more like selling property than a contract - we're not getting his future work |
| 14:19:00 | pb_ | cmarqu: indeed, no doubt the FSF will know about it. |
| 14:19:43 | pb_ | moray: true enough |
| 14:20:25 | cmarqu | pb_: Cool, worked. Maybe that could be bound to any cvs commit ? |
| 14:21:24 | pb_ | cmarqu: hmm, maybe, yeah. But it's not hard to write a shell script that does "ssh cmarqu@handhelds.org sh -c 'cd /home/gpe; ./website-update.sh'" or some such. |
| 14:21:42 | cmarqu | Yeah... |
| 14:24:54 | pb_ | be back later |
| 14:48:51 | spung | is getting the hang of limits.. w00t |
| 14:54:05 | mallum | arg |
| 14:54:09 | mallum | stamps on gimp |
| 14:56:43 | moray | mallum: ? |
| 15:23:30 | mallum | moray: fixed it now |
| 15:23:41 | mallum | moray: I gues Im just a little to used to photoshop ... |
| 15:28:59 | moray | ah, ok |
| 15:32:55 | pb_ | so, I thought about this copyright assignment stuff some more, and I've come to the conclusion it's not worth the effort. Some of our icons are copyright Ximian and god knows who else, gpe-media is probably going to end up containing code from famplayer, and all sorts. So I think we should just take the "GNU" out of the official GPE expansion and be done with it. |
| 15:34:51 | moray | certainly it would effectively narrow down where we can 'borrow' code from, which isn't necessarily what we want... |
| 15:35:04 | cmarqu | Yeah. I might have a hard time getting an okay from my employer too. |
| 15:39:23 | spung | yeah, my mom won't let me either |
| 15:39:27 | spung | ehehehe |
| 15:40:10 | spung | we'll get one of those funny names GPE: GPE PDA Environment |
| 15:40:16 | spung | oh |
| 15:40:29 | spung | GPE: GPE Palmtop Environment |
| 15:42:11 | mallum | or we just come up with a totally new name |
| 15:42:19 | pb_ | mallum: indeed |
| 15:42:29 | mallum | arg my stupid cats machine is bust again :( |
| 15:42:41 | cmarqu | dc probably wants "Storm TNG" or some such :) |
| 15:42:51 | pb_ | mallum: what did you do to it this time? |
| 15:43:10 | mallum | firmware refuses to boot, booting off cd and it refuses to mount /dev/hda1 |
| 15:43:24 | mallum | saying something about unsupported options |
| 15:43:34 | mallum | I changed the filesystem to ext3 |
| 15:43:43 | mallum | but its came up before fine |
| 15:43:51 | mallum | and then it crashed |
| 15:44:00 | mallum | now it wont come back up |
| 15:44:01 | pb_ | :-| |
| 15:44:03 | moray | well, the 'unsupported options' will be the ext3 flags - hm |
| 15:44:21 | pb_ | mallum: ext3 looks exactly like ext2, except when not cleanly unmounted |
| 15:44:31 | mallum | pb_: uh .... |
| 15:44:41 | mallum | pb_: f**k |
| 15:44:42 | pb_ | mallum: so I suspect the kernel you're trying to boot with doesn't "do" ext3. |
| 15:44:48 | mallum | pb_: nope 2.2 |
| 15:44:52 | pb_ | mallum: and I'm 99% certain the firmware won't. |
| 15:45:33 | mallum | pb_: may put the drive in an other machine ( with ext3 ) , mount there and then cleanly umount ? |
| 15:45:42 | pb_ | mallum: yup, that would do it |
| 15:46:13 | mallum | pb_: was just about to build the 0.3pre0 matchbox ipkgs :(( |
| 15:46:18 | pb_ | gutted! |
| 15:46:49 | mallum | damn and there was me thinking ext3 would fix all the fsking it does when it crashes .... |
| 15:47:03 | mallum | and infact it did the complete opposite ! |
| 15:47:11 | pb_ | mallum: well, you could put a 2.4 kernel on a cd and boot from that |
| 15:47:24 | pb_ | mallum: and then you ought to be pretty much invincible, I'd think |
| 15:47:40 | mallum | pb_: probably quicker for me to pop the drive in another machine. ... |
| 15:47:48 | pb_ | mallum: aye |
| 15:48:06 | mallum | pb_: I'll then make some sort of recovery cd |
| 15:48:14 | mallum | pb_: with 2.4 |
| 15:48:30 | mallum | pb_: assuming I cant go back from ext3 ... |
| 15:49:10 | pb_ | mallum: sure, you can go back to ext2 at any time |
| 15:49:15 | mallum | pb_: about the copyright issue, surely fsf dont own all the copyright on gnome software ? |
| 15:49:25 | pb_ | mallum: you just have to make sure the filesystem is clean, then use tune2fs to delete the journal |
| 15:49:36 | mallum | pb_: cool |
| 15:50:36 | mallum | I'll have to use my firewall to do the mount so I'll be offline for a second |
| 15:58:42 | DaveH | Morning |
| 15:59:04 | cmarqu | Hi DaveH |
| 15:59:20 | DaveH | was someone looking for me earlier |
| 15:59:49 | pb_ | DaveH: no, I think we were just taking your name in vain. |
| 16:00:02 | DaveH | Grins ah I see |
| 16:02:01 | mallum | woohoo ! she's back |
| 16:04:24 | pb_ | DaveH: a few quick thoughts on your schema, since I have to leave in a couple of minutes: in general, all seems very good, but I think we would probably be better off without the GPE_FORMAT table and its associated data. Also, it's not clear to me what the "description" in the GPE_RESOURCE_TABLE would really be used for, and I think it might be better to put links inside the resource table as just another element type, rather than having a separat |
| 16:04:24 | pb_ | e table for them. |
| 16:05:15 | pb_ | DaveH: all seems fine other than that. I haven't looked at the contacts format one yet, will do that later. |
| 16:06:16 | pb_ | mallum: congratulations |
| 16:06:29 | mallum | pb_: hmmm, can see an option to delete the journal - I could just alter fstab to mount as ext2 ? |
| 16:06:58 | moray | pb_: well, I've fixed the bug I was getting locally, by adding code to deal with us having errors in gpe_error_box... |
| 16:07:19 | moray | mallum: you probably want to mount as ext2 before removing the journal anyway |
| 16:08:20 | mallum | moray: indeed |
| 16:09:09 | pb_ | moray: ah, right. |
| 16:09:26 | pb_ | okay, time to go to the public house, back later. |
| 16:09:31 | mallum | :) |
| 16:12:45 | cmarqu | Beer, ah... |
| 16:36:37 | mallum | hmphh, back to the drawing board .... |
| 16:49:31 | cmarqu | gpe-contacts would be nice to have, but it doesn't work yet. I guess i can even stop submitting bugs against it... |
| 17:09:36 | zecke | how is gpe dealing with multiuser? and how far is syncing? |
| 17:16:10 | spung | zecke: AFAIK multiuser is being delt with |
| 17:16:22 | spung | i heard some chat about a sound daemon |
| 17:16:40 | spung | and (gpe-login, gpe-dm, matchbox) are working together for multi-user |
| 17:16:55 | zecke | spung: does gpe get's directly started through the init scripts? |
| 17:16:57 | zecke | ah good |
| 17:17:04 | zecke | gpe-login is similiar to xdm? |
| 17:17:22 | spung | zecke: no sync yet tho.. the database schema is being finished |
| 17:17:44 | Veggen | But are the apps generally usable? |
| 17:17:55 | zecke | spung: are you using the sqllite daemon or plain libsqllite? |
| 17:18:11 | spung | Veggen: i don't think so |
| 17:18:31 | Veggen | I'm definitely interested in GPE... |
| 17:18:47 | zecke | I'm a Opie developer.... |
| 17:18:56 | cmarqu | Veggen: gpe-calendar seems usable. |
| 17:19:00 | spung | Veggen: we're actively working on it, tho |
| 17:19:22 | Veggen | I should probably volounteer, but I have a few other projects to get to a usable state before my spare-time is ready for more projects ;) |
| 17:19:24 | cmarqu | zecke: plain libsqllite ATM |
| 17:19:45 | spung | zecke: yes, but i think the idea is to use usqld |
| 17:19:59 | zecke | spung: how does libsqllite perform? |
| 17:20:15 | zecke | and how is the support from the maintainer? Does he actively develop it? |
| 17:20:47 | cmarqu | Multiple maintainers. pb is very active. |
| 17:20:52 | spung | zecke: i think so, and it's supposed to be at least 4 times faster |
| 17:20:54 | cmarqu | Other people too. |
| 17:20:58 | zecke | let's say it like this. Trolltech decided to use XML for their files but this really really sucks cause it does not scale |
| 17:21:13 | cmarqu | Oh. You are talking about sqlite. Sorry. |
| 17:21:18 | spung | zecke: do you wish to share same DB? |
| 17:21:25 | zecke | cmarqu: yes |
| 17:21:56 | zecke | spung: it would be ridicoulus if Opie starts to design their own database. I want to look first what is available |
| 17:21:58 | zecke | and then we will decide |
| 17:22:10 | spung | zecke: that would be nice, you should talk to pb_ and DaveH (the author of the DB schema) |
| 17:22:25 | Veggen | zecke: the beauty of open source. If you make something usable and modular enough, it could be possible for TrollTech just to replace their with your :) |
| 17:22:26 | zecke | we also got the problem that we want to stay compatible with Qtopia from the Sharp Zaurus |
| 17:22:36 | spung | zecke: do you want their emails? |
| 17:22:43 | zecke | spung: yes |
| 17:22:55 | cmarqu | Import/export Qtopia XML... |
| 17:23:06 | | DaveH is mocking lars_g |
| 17:23:06 | cmarqu | ibot: DaveH? |
| 17:23:09 | cmarqu | :) |
| 17:23:18 | | cmarqu: i haven't a clue |
| 17:23:18 | cmarqu | ibot: pb? |
| 17:23:27 | zecke | lol |
| 17:23:38 | | OK, cmarqu. |
| 17:23:38 | cmarqu | ibot: pb is pb (at) handhelds.org |
| 17:23:55 | spung | zecke: Dave dave@HumanPenguin.org | pb pb@nexus.co.uk | gpe mailing list gpe@handhelds.org |
| 17:23:59 | zecke | cmarqu: we got IntelliSync to sync Qtopia with outlook so we don't want to give that up |
| 17:24:14 | cmarqu | zecke: Ah. Hmm. |
| 17:24:32 | zecke | cmarqu: we will convert them on demand... Our launcher got a build in FTP Server |
| 17:25:12 | cmarqu | GPE wants to use SyncML, but there were some issues... like nobody responding from syncml.org IIRC. |
| 17:25:17 | spung | zecke: about gpe-login: http://gpe.handhelds.org/projects/GPE-login.shtml |
| 17:26:38 | spung | lol, pb's got a lot of e-mail addreses, @gnu.org @debian.org @handhelds.org |
| 17:26:55 | zecke | lol |
| 17:26:58 | zecke | ok thanks a lot |
| 17:26:59 | zecke | cu |
| 17:27:23 | spung | in my language 'cu' means 'ass' |
| 17:27:26 | | ...but daveh is mocking lars_g... |
| 17:27:26 | cmarqu | ibot: DaveH is dave(at)HumanPenguin.org |
| 17:27:36 | | cmarqu: I forgot daveh |
| 17:27:36 | cmarqu | ibot: forget DaveH |
| 17:27:38 | | OK, cmarqu. |
| 17:27:38 | cmarqu | ibot: DaveH is dave(at)HumanPenguin.org |
| 17:27:47 | zecke | ah I forgot something |
| 17:28:00 | spung | zecke: too late, we're closed now |
| 17:28:00 | zecke | does GPE provide something like task-gpe-all ;) |
| 17:28:01 | cmarqu | Your keys? |
| 17:28:08 | zecke | lol |
| 17:28:17 | spung | it's 18:32 |
| 17:28:20 | spung | we're closed |
| 17:28:30 | zecke | here it 19:32 |
| 17:28:34 | cmarqu | AFAIK, there is no such package. |
| 17:28:45 | moray | starts sweeping the floor of the channel and putting chairs up on tables |
| 17:28:51 | cmarqu | Good idea tho. |
| 17:28:53 | spung | zecke: not yet |
| 17:28:54 | cmarqu | :) |
| 17:28:56 | zecke | most of the packages are in familiar unstable? |
| 17:29:07 | cmarqu | TODO: task-gpe-all |
| 17:29:16 | spung | zecke: i think those are pretty outdated |
| 17:29:26 | zecke | ok then I will collect all the packages manually |
| 17:29:28 | zecke | cu |
| 17:29:37 | spung | zecke: but i'm not sure |
| 17:29:41 | spung | zecke: debian-arm |
| 17:29:41 | zecke | spung: ok where can I get newer packages without cross compiling? |
| 17:29:58 | spung | zecke: i think debian-arm has some |
| 17:30:12 | spung | zecke: you can run them on your desktop anyway |
| 17:30:16 | zecke | ok thanks a lot and cu in a while |
| 17:30:32 | zecke | yes I could |
| 17:31:25 | moray | is adding an interface onto gpe-soundbite, btw |
| 17:31:53 | spung | is doing last years maths exam |
| 17:31:57 | moray | (but one that makes the assumption it will be called by other programs) |
| 17:32:16 | moray | spung: hey, that's cheating, you can't do that much work for your exams! ;) |
| 17:32:37 | spung | moray: damn it, i spent all day long studying |
| 17:32:43 | spung | moray: i think i'm getting sick |
| 17:32:54 | cmarqu | moray: What does soundbite do actually? It's not listed in http://gpe.handhelds.org/projects/ |
| 17:34:16 | moray | cmarqu: it's pb's(?) program to record and play back gsm-compressed audio - was just commandline |
| 17:34:41 | cmarqu | Ah. Cool. |
| 17:35:23 | moray | cmarqu: I'm just trying to make it a popup thing that other programs could call when they want to do that (e.g. gpe-todo) |
| 17:35:48 | cmarqu | Should be mapped to the Record button... |
| 17:37:09 | moray | cmarqu: that too, yes - though that would require us to sort out where it should get saved to etc... |
| 17:40:08 | cmarqu | In wince, a single button press opens the app, and holding the button records. To be saved... in $HOME, no? For provacy reasons again. |
| 17:47:17 | cmarqu | is sitting outside with a beer for a while. BBL. |
| 18:03:45 | dc_ | hehe |
| 18:03:47 | dc_ | afternoon |
| 18:03:49 | dc_ | watches resident evil :} |
| 18:04:13 | dc_ | pb_: hey! |
| 18:04:20 | pb_ | dc_! |
| 18:04:44 | pb_ | what's the news? |
| 18:04:54 | dc_ | not much |
| 18:05:00 | dc_ | --> You are now talking on #gpe |
| 18:05:01 | dc_ | --- Topic for #gpe is GPE: GNU Palmtop Environment | gpe.handhelds.org |
| 18:05:01 | dc_ | --- Topic for #gpe set by spung at Thu Jun 13 19:43:05 |
| 18:05:01 | dc_ | <dc_> hehe |
| 18:05:01 | dc_ | <dc_> afternoon |
| 18:05:01 | pb_ | huh. |
| 18:05:01 | dc_ | * dc_ watches resident evil :} |
| 18:05:04 | dc_ | --> pb_ (~pb@pc1-camb6-0-cust163.cam.cable.ntl.com) has joi |
| 18:05:06 | dc_ | :) |
| 18:05:28 | pb_ | ah, a quiet evening so far then. |
| 18:06:08 | dc_ | indeed |
| 18:06:15 | dc_ | well, actualy I just signed on :} |
| 18:07:57 | pb_ | right, hmm. Well, I see cmarqu has been busy, the emails from bugzilla are flooding in. |
| 18:08:40 | mallum | pb_, dc_: hey take a peek at scap ..... ;) |
| 18:08:59 | mallum | dc_: resident evil ? |
| 18:09:09 | dc_ | mallum: the movie |
| 18:09:46 | pb_ | mallum: hey, cool. |
| 18:11:45 | dc_ | mallum: wow, cool :D |
| 18:12:09 | mallum | ipkgs are available |
| 18:12:20 | pb_ | mallum: in unstable? |
| 18:12:31 | mallum | http://www.handhelds.org/~mallum/downloadables/experimental/ |
| 18:12:42 | mallum | pb_: these are way too unstable for unstable |
| 18:12:47 | pb_ | mallum: :-) |
| 18:12:51 | dc_ | hehe |
| 18:12:57 | pb_ | oh, damn, I left my ipaq at the office again. |
| 18:12:59 | dc_ | wakes his iPAQ up |
| 18:12:59 | mallum | use at your own risk :) |
| 18:13:09 | pb_ | oh well, I'll have a go with them tomorrow. :-) |
| 18:13:24 | mallum | pb_: cool |
| 18:15:29 | mallum | heres the bugs I know of so far .... |
| 18:15:44 | mallum | miniapm is broke ( failed linking against libapm ? ) |
| 18:15:49 | dc_ | :/ |
| 18:16:01 | mallum | doesn't quite survive a roatation yet ( but close ) |
| 18:16:12 | mallum | other theme causes segfualt |
| 18:16:18 | mallum | icons get blacked out |
| 18:16:26 | mallum | ( someitmes ) |
| 18:16:35 | mallum | mmenu is half way up the screen |
| 18:16:40 | dc_ | heh |
| 18:17:36 | mallum | fuck knows what is happening when you try and drag a dialog |
| 18:18:20 | dc_ | hehw |
| 18:18:27 | dc_ | mallum: well it looks cool man :D |
| 18:22:28 | mallum | dc_: yeah, in them shots it matchbox + calender look _better_ than qpe !!! |
| 18:22:31 | mallum | MUHAHAHAHAHA |
| 18:22:43 | dc_ | mallum: yes!! :DDDD |
| 18:22:48 | dc_ | wow |
| 18:22:53 | dc_ | quite a few people here :} |
| 18:24:10 | pb_ | mallum: yeah, it's awesome. |
| 18:24:36 | pb_ | hell, bugzilla thinks I "own" nine bug reports already. |
| 18:24:45 | dc_ | haha :P |
| 18:24:59 | pb_ | dc_: get yourself a bugzilla account so I can offload some of these :-) |
| 18:25:49 | dc_ | pb_: I do |
| 18:25:56 | dc_ | pb_: dctanner@magenet.com |
| 18:26:02 | Veggen | Hmmf. I want a satelitte fix :) (just found gpsdrive precompiled) |
| 18:26:02 | mallum | dc_: quite a few bugs to fix but nothing heavy |
| 18:26:31 | Veggen | oops. non-gpe-related on #gpe |
| 18:27:22 | pb_ | dc_: ah, right, cool. |
| 18:27:30 | dc_ | pb_: assign me some |
| 18:27:43 | pb_ | dc_: doing it now!" |
| 18:28:15 | mallum | pb_: I put a new network card in the arm box, using tulip driver |
| 18:28:30 | pb_ | mallum: cool, has that improved things at all? |
| 18:28:48 | mallum | pb_: well I was hammering it compiling stuff and it seemed ok |
| 18:29:29 | pb_ | dc_: okay, you now have a few bugs |
| 18:29:36 | mallum | dc_: if you decide to install the new matchbox, make sure you install that xstroke there too. It fixes the broken docking |
| 18:29:40 | pb_ | DaveH: are you there? |
| 18:32:49 | dc_ | mallum: right |
| 18:36:33 | mallum | dc_: also after you've launched matchbox, remove any mini* entrys from ~/.xsession. the dock should now look after launching them ( see created .mbdock ) |
| 18:36:34 | dc_ | heh, crapy movie :/ |
| 18:38:00 | pb_ | dc_: :-/ |
| 18:38:53 | mallum | uh oh, other theme load segfualts on arm but not on powerpc :( |
| 18:40:02 | dc_ | heh |
| 18:50:38 | mallum | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.8861.png |
| 18:51:20 | mallum | gnome2 .... |
| 18:51:27 | mallum | ;) |
| 18:51:39 | dc_ | haha |
| 18:51:59 | dc_ | hrm |
| 18:52:03 | dc_ | is cvs down? |
| 18:53:50 | DaveH | pb_: sorry was downstairs .. |
| 18:54:02 | pb_ | dc_: no, it's working for me. |
| 18:54:14 | dc_ | pb_: it stalls once I enter my apss |
| 18:54:18 | dc_ | pass :/ |
| 18:54:46 | pb_ | DaveH: ah, right, did you see the stuff I wrote earlier about the schema? |
| 18:55:01 | DaveH | Yea just before my DSL went down .. |
| 18:55:06 | pb_ | :-/ |
| 18:55:12 | dc_ | pb_: oh, did anyone edit the day_popup.c stuff anyway? |
| 18:55:20 | dc_ | pb_: I was going to work on fdixing it |
| 18:55:22 | pb_ | dc_: weird, are you able to log in directly to hh.org? |
| 18:55:29 | dc_ | on my list, and on bugzilla :} |
| 18:55:40 | DaveH | The purpose of the formats table is to allow a application to be associated with a type ? |
| 18:55:45 | pb_ | dc_: what, the alpha blending thing? |
| 18:55:59 | dc_ | pb_: well yeah |
| 18:56:04 | pb_ | DaveH: sorry, you've lost me already :-( |
| 18:56:13 | dc_ | pb_: well, last time I check, it didn't even have any icons |
| 18:56:14 | pb_ | DaveH: what's a "type" in this context? |
| 18:56:43 | pb_ | dc_: oh, right, yeah, the icons are back, it's just the close one that has problems now I think. |
| 18:57:11 | DaveH | a type relates to wether a table stores contacts events or banking details .. plus others as we add them |
| 18:57:35 | mallum | dc_: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.24574.png MUHAHAHAHA |
| 18:58:09 | mallum | dc_: people looking at scap are gonna get real confused |
| 18:58:16 | pb_ | mallum: :-) |
| 18:59:01 | pb_ | DaveH: hmm, I see, so are you saying that each of those would have a different data format in the type table? |
| 19:00:00 | DaveH | Nods and a user selectable application to run that type .. IE if you relate a contact to an event in a calender .. when you look at that contact the calender application can see the users preffered contacts application ? |
| 19:00:31 | DaveH | also the whole concept prevents the problem of the sc hema going out of date when we come up with new data to store ? |
| 19:01:51 | dc_ | mallum: haha :D |
| 19:02:51 | pb_ | DaveH: hmm, right, wouldn't it be easier just to put a "preferred application" string in the GPE_RESOURCE_TABLE? |
| 19:03:30 | dc_ | pb_: oh okay |
| 19:03:33 | dc_ | pb_: hmm |
| 19:03:39 | dc_ | pb_: what needs work then :/ |
| 19:04:07 | pb_ | dc_: system setup :-) |
| 19:04:17 | pb_ | dc_: or you can work on the calculator if you like |
| 19:04:32 | dc_ | pb_: hmm |
| 19:04:33 | dc_ | :) |
| 19:04:48 | dc_ | food first |
| 19:04:52 | moray | pb_: I don't know if you saw, I'm putting a minimal frontend onto gpe-soundbite just now |
| 19:05:24 | pb_ | moray: No, I didn't see. Excellent! |
| 19:06:20 | DaveH | Its an attempt to divide the data in a organised manner .. in Database design its genrally considered bad to mike unrelated data in tables .. the idea is that a table represents a sincgle concrete concept .. GPE RESOURCE TABLE indicates the location of a resource |
| 19:06:34 | moray | pb_: I've just got a transient window with a progress bar and buttons, the idea being that other programs should call it and deal with where the files should go etc. |
| 19:06:43 | DaveH | but that said there is no preformance reason why that sould not be done |
| 19:07:36 | moray | pb_: oh, if I'm going to be able to check in my bugfix from earlier I'll need CVS access... :) |
| 19:07:45 | DaveH | as we allready mix it up a bit having the format type within the Resource table |
| 19:09:03 | pb_ | DaveH: well, I was thinking of it in terms of an entry in the GPE_RESOURCE_TABLE representing a category of data -- contacts, events or whatever. That being the case, it seems fairly natural to associate preferred applications at that level. |
| 19:09:42 | DaveH | fair enougth |
| 19:11:15 | pb_ | DaveH: also, I would rather tie things down so that each resource type has (only) one data representation associated with it. I can see that making the choice of format orthogonal to the semantics of the fields is kind of elegant, but in practice I think it will burden our applications with too much complexity. |
| 19:11:18 | DaveH | You also mentioned something about merging links with the GPE_RESOURCE ? |
| 19:12:37 | pb_ | DaveH: That is, if the schema will admit (say) contacts being either XML or vCard, depending on the entry in GPE_RESOURCE_TABLE, all applications are going to have to be preprared to read and write both formats. I think the choice of data format either has to be made more granular, so that each individual record can have a format associated with it, or (preferably) decided once, for all time, for each table. |
| 19:13:47 | DaveH | Nods I agree it makes mopre sence for us to create our own formats that are fairly expandable and introduce those as standards for GPE .. |
| 19:14:01 | DaveH | then have a conversion app for syncing |
| 19:14:16 | pb_ | DaveH: Yeah, I had this idea that a link was basically just another object attribute. Say for an event representing a meeting, you would have a date, a time, and a list of attendees. The attendees might well end up being linked to entries in the contacts database, and it seems best to me to represent those links in the same place as all the rest of the data, rather than consigning them to a separate table. |
| 19:15:04 | pb_ | moray: sure, do you already have an account on handhelds.org? |
| 19:17:00 | DaveH | Im not sure I get your meaning there .. A event is a point in time a contact is a collection of details .. A link can be used to represent any number of relationships but it this case would be the list of contacts attending the event.. Or a building the event is in (a contact need not represent a person) trying to link those concepts in some form of link resource is going to at the very least repeat a lot of data .. at the worse limit us in what l |
| 19:17:00 | DaveH | nks may be used for in the future ? |
| 19:19:26 | pb_ | DaveH: hmm, I get the feeling we have some wires crossed somewhere. Let me try to put down something more concrete on the links thing and mail it to you. |
| 19:19:50 | DaveH | nods good idea .. Cheers |
| 19:20:14 | moray | pb_: no, I don't [or don't think I do...] |
| 19:20:35 | pb_ | moray: okay, let me know your real name and email address, and I will set it up for you. |
| 19:22:29 | moray | pb_: Moray Allan <moray@sermisy.org> |
| 19:22:45 | moray | thanks |
| 19:23:19 | pb_ | moray: it's done. |
| 19:25:39 | moray | thank you... (got the email.) do I need to do anything different for GPE CVS than the usual handhelds one? |
| 19:27:56 | pb_ | moray: nope, it should all be fairly straightforward. You need to set up your SSH key using the interface at admin.handhelds.org and the password that was mailed to you, then you should be able to log in, run cvs and all that good stuff. |
| 19:29:20 | moray | pb_: yup, see that now (from the group listing bit of the account page) |
| 19:31:38 | moray | is off briefly to try to get some food before the shop shuts... |
| 19:43:00 | dc_ | returns |
| 19:43:01 | dc_ | hey spung |
| 19:43:15 | cmarqu | dc_: Hey, do you own gpe-contacts now? |
| 19:43:44 | dc_ | cmarqu: do I?? |
| 19:43:51 | dc_ | hides |
| 19:44:00 | dc_ | cmarqu: I hope not, don't even know how it works :/ |
| 19:44:06 | cmarqu | dc_: Well, pb_ assigned my bug to you. |
| 19:44:10 | cmarqu | :) |
| 19:44:11 | dc_ | cmarqu: oh |
| 19:44:19 | dc_ | cmarqu: well, that's different :/ |
| 19:44:39 | pb_ | cmarqu: yeah, but that doesn't mean he owns the whole program - just that one bug :-) |
| 19:44:45 | cmarqu | I would have had more bugs on it, but I figured it just wasn't there yet. |
| 19:45:06 | cmarqu | dc_: Ah :) |
| 19:45:14 | pb_ | cmarqu: right, there's no point filing bugs about (to pick an example at random) the fact that you can't actually load or save any contacts. |
| 19:45:32 | cmarqu | dc_: Well, it needs to be fixed in autoconf/automake... |
| 19:45:42 | cmarqu | pb_: Too bad :/ |
| 19:45:42 | pb_ | ! |
| 19:46:12 | pb_ | cmarqu: the whole gpe-contacts thing is basically stalled pending an outcome on the database schema stuff. |
| 19:46:23 | cmarqu | I see. |
| 19:46:36 | dc_ | yeah, I'm working my way through all the apps and converting them to the new pixmaps system |
| 19:46:38 | pb_ | cmarqu: same with gpe-calendar and gpe-todo, to some extent. |
| 19:47:24 | cmarqu | Yup. So... I want a gpe-media package now :) |
| 19:47:33 | dc_ | yay |
| 19:47:44 | pb_ | cmarqu: Yeah, I dunno really what the situation is with gpe-media. |
| 19:47:45 | dc_ | pb_: is there a ui for gpe-media yet? |
| 19:47:56 | dc_ | whould like to make one :} |
| 19:48:01 | pb_ | dc_: well, funnily enough, that was going to be one of my projects for this evening. |
| 19:48:18 | dc_ | pb_: oh cool, can I help then ;)? |
| 19:48:31 | cmarqu | dc_: You go fix your bugs! :) |
| 19:48:35 | pb_ | dc_: mallum had a cool idea about making the control panel into a toolbar window like xkbd |
| 19:48:54 | dc_ | pb_: ohhh |
| 19:48:55 | pb_ | dc_: and, of course, we have your pixmaps, so at least in theory nothing can stand in our way. |
| 19:48:59 | dc_ | pb_: for media? |
| 19:49:03 | pb_ | dc_: yes. |
| 19:49:09 | dc_ | sweet :D |
| 19:49:46 | dc_ | arg. |
| 19:49:51 | pb_ | ? |
| 19:49:54 | dc_ | I can't do anything till cvs updates :{ |
| 19:50:02 | dc_ | connection times out |
| 19:50:07 | dc_ | authough I can still ssh in |
| 19:50:09 | pb_ | :-( |
| 19:50:19 | cmarqu | I'd like to have gpe-media controllable with the buttons/joypad. Like rew/ffwd/skip fwd/skip bwd/vol+/vol-... (where vol is not the master volume) |
| 19:50:49 | pb_ | cmarqu: is there a gpe-media component in bugzilla? if so, file it there :-) |
| 19:50:56 | cmarqu | Sounds like a wishlist bug, huh? |
| 19:51:00 | pb_ | right |
| 19:51:03 | dc_ | oh dear |
| 19:51:08 | pb_ | dc_: ? |
| 19:51:13 | dc_ | mallum: how do I install the gnome-panel2? |
| 19:51:20 | cmarqu | Ha, yeah. No component in bugzilla for that, no. |
| 19:51:29 | dc_ | oh dear/ |
| 19:52:29 | cmarqu | pb_: Wille you are at it, can you add gpe-soundbite too? |
| 19:53:15 | pb_ | cmarqu: done. |
| 19:53:24 | pb_ | I made dc owner of gpe-media, just for laughs. |
| 19:53:41 | dc_ | oh dear, |
| 19:53:49 | cmarqu | :) |
| 19:53:50 | dc_ | this could be very funny :} |
| 19:56:55 | cmarqu | dc_: "You've got new bugs." |
| 19:57:00 | cmarqu | ;) |
| 19:57:28 | dc_ | oh dear. |
| 19:57:40 | pb_ | dc_: is cvs working now? |
| 19:58:48 | dc_ | no :( |
| 19:58:53 | dc_ | reboots |
| 19:58:54 | dc_ | brb |
| 19:59:00 | pb_ | dc_: do you have CVS_RSH set, and all that good stuff? |
| 20:00:19 | dc_ | yeah |
| 20:00:57 | pb_ | and it's just timing out? |
| 20:01:19 | spung | stupid cable connection |
| 20:01:33 | spung | pb_: hey, heard about that opie guy? |
| 20:01:36 | spung | dc_: yay |
| 20:01:45 | pb_ | spung: which opie guy, what happened to him? |
| 20:01:49 | dc_ | perks up |
| 20:01:51 | dc_ | wha?? |
| 20:01:53 | dc_ | where? |
| 20:02:01 | dc_ | pb_: yes |
| 20:02:06 | spung | pb_: an opie dev came here |
| 20:02:19 | spung | pb_: he wanted to know some stuff about gpe's DB |
| 20:02:23 | pb_ | spung: what, here, to this channel? |
| 20:02:27 | pb_ | spung: ha! |
| 20:02:28 | spung | yes |
| 20:02:30 | dc_ | hahahahaa |
| 20:02:33 | dc_ | suckers |
| 20:02:37 | pb_ | spung: what did you tell him? |
| 20:02:39 | spung | he was considering using the same DB as we |
| 20:02:41 | dc_ | did you expose him to #opie? |
| 20:02:48 | cmarqu | zecke seems like an okay guy. |
| 20:02:49 | spung | he was considering using the same DB as us |
| 20:02:52 | spung | yes |
| 20:02:57 | spung | zecke it was |
| 20:03:07 | spung | pb_: i gave him your e-mail and daveh's |
| 20:03:11 | pb_ | aha |
| 20:03:13 | dc_ | heh |
| 20:03:22 | | i heard pb was pb (at) handhelds.org |
| 20:03:22 | cmarqu | ibot: pb? |
| 20:03:29 | cmarqu | Ha! |
| 20:03:29 | spung | i think sharing the same DB schema |
| 20:03:38 | | cmarqu is the ScummVM package maintainer (but BBrox did the porting) and a lame Storm developer or green and yellow |
| 20:03:38 | pb_ | ibot, cmarqu? |
| 20:03:43 | spung | would be good |
| 20:03:47 | pb_ | hmm |
| 20:03:50 | | you are luismbo AT netcabo DOT pt |
| 20:03:50 | spung | ibot, me? |
| 20:03:52 | | dc is probably a young iPaq hacker or has an email mailto:dctanner@magenet.com |
| 20:03:52 | dc_ | ibot dc |
| 20:04:08 | pb_ | gosh, ibot knows it all. |
| 20:04:14 | dc_ | yeah |
| 20:04:17 | dc_ | brb |
| 20:04:25 | pb_ | spung: yes, sharing would rock. |
| 20:04:42 | mallum | pb_: cool, we should take advantage of toolbar windows ... |
| 20:04:56 | spung | pb_: they want to go away from XML because it does not scale |
| 20:05:03 | cmarqu | Actually, any news about syncml? What were the issue again? They didn't reply to a rather important question, right? |
| 20:05:33 | pb_ | cmarqu: from what I remember, we kind of foundered on the question of whether they were IP-encumbered. |
| 20:05:45 | pb_ | cmarqu: but the evidence since seems to be pointing towards "no". |
| 20:05:49 | cmarqu | Ah, yeah. |
| 20:06:15 | pb_ | cmarqu: did you know you filed the "Want button support" bug twice? |
| 20:06:32 | cmarqu | OPIE has Outlook sync. Would be good to steal that since nobody really wants to implement that I guess... |
| 20:06:56 | pb_ | yah, though Evolution sync is probably more exciting for me personally. |
| 20:07:08 | cmarqu | pb_: Argh. I thought I stopped the browser early enough since the 1st one had a "normal" prio. |
| 20:07:25 | cmarqu | wants BBDB/diary sync to emacs |
| 20:07:31 | pb_ | cmarqu: nope, both were submitted; can you close one as being a duplicate? |
| 20:07:43 | cmarqu | pb_: Yeah, will do. |
| 20:08:13 | pb_ | moray, do you have a bugzilla account? If so, I'll reassign this gpe-soundbite bug to you. |
| 20:09:47 | cmarqu | Okay, bug marked as duplicate. |
| 20:10:14 | cmarqu | dctanner@magenet.com (Damein Tanner) |
| 20:10:18 | cmarqu | A typo there... |
| 20:16:10 | moray | pb_: yes I do (same email address: moray@sermisy.org) |
| 20:17:22 | pb_ | moray: okay, congratulations, you now own bug #13 :-) |
| 20:19:13 | cmarqu | And you even have a *duplicate* of that :) |
| 20:23:14 | mallum | squashes lots of mb bugs :) |
| 20:23:34 | pb_ | an esd package is in familiar incoming now |
| 20:24:03 | pb_ | and I'm gonna check the source into cvs, just in case we need it in the future |
| 20:26:55 | mallum | pb_: cool |
| 20:26:58 | pb_ | moray: can you add a changelog entry for your errorbox.c change if you didn't already |
| 20:30:54 | cmarqu | is very much for ChangeLog files. Too bad cvs2cl deletes people's full email addresses. |
| 20:31:39 | dc_ | hrm |
| 20:31:42 | pb_ | dc_: by the way, did you see gpe-su's icon is fixed now? Very cool pixmap, by the way. |
| 20:31:45 | mallum | pb_: when matchbox dev stabalizes a little, I'll write some funcs for gpe to do things like set windows types, icons etc |
| 20:31:47 | dc_ | yay |
| 20:31:50 | dc_ | cvs works :) |
| 20:31:57 | pb_ | mallum: excellent |
| 20:32:01 | pb_ | dc_: excellent too |
| 20:32:25 | cmarqu | wonders if OPIE's PDF viewer uses libxpdf... |
| 20:32:54 | pb_ | downloads mibus's gpe-media |
| 20:33:15 | pb_ | "ugh, it's got automake all over it" |
| 20:33:22 | cmarqu | :) |
| 20:33:45 | dc_ | pb_: hmm |
| 20:34:08 | dc_ | mallum: cool :} |
| 20:34:30 | dc_ | pb_: err, my pixmaps in the buttons in gpe-su are still not right |
| 20:34:43 | pb_ | dc_: oh dear, what's wrong with them? |
| 20:35:35 | dc_ | pb_: it's like the mouse over problem we had with them before, but they're like that like normal |
| 20:35:44 | dc_ | pb_: not alphering properly |
| 20:35:47 | pb_ | hmm, weird, they look okay on my machine |
| 20:36:00 | dc_ | pb_: hrm, I just recompile libgpe and gpe-su..? |
| 20:36:05 | pb_ | right |
| 20:36:24 | pb_ | let me check with the up-to-the-minute tree |
| 20:36:49 | mallum | cmarqu: yes it is -> http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/portsntools.html |
| 20:38:24 | cmarqu | is envious :) |
| 20:39:02 | moray | hm, if it's been ported to RISC OS, it's likely it's very portable... |
| 20:39:41 | dc_ | yeah |
| 20:39:47 | dc_ | we need gpe-pdf ;) |
| 20:40:01 | pb_ | dc_: weird, the icons still look okay for me. |
| 20:40:10 | pb_ | Can anybody else reproduce dc_'s problem? |
| 20:40:12 | dc_ | pb_: lemme take a shot |
| 20:41:11 | moray | dc_: I could actually do with a very simple image viewer too - I often want to, e.g. download a PNG of a map (without a GPS ;) and look at it when I'm out |
| 20:41:13 | cmarqu | gpe-su looks fine here. |
| 20:41:37 | dc_ | moray: gpe-gallery |
| 20:41:44 | cmarqu | moray: Yeah, me too. With easy panning/zooming etc. |
| 20:41:45 | dc_ | moray: it's in the works :/ |
| 20:42:12 | dc_ | cmarqu, moray: did you guys every try out sview? |
| 20:42:40 | cmarqu | dc_: Well, last time I looked, it was missing a lib, and then I was OOF... |
| 20:42:58 | dc_ | cmarqu: it works now from unstable |
| 20:43:03 | dc_ | I just installed it yesterday |
| 20:43:20 | cmarqu | dc_: Yeah, gotta fix my dualboot and install it. |
| 20:43:28 | dc_ | cool |
| 20:43:34 | dc_ | well I'm porting it to gpe-gallery |
| 20:43:44 | dc_ | maby we can build some simple view options in |
| 20:44:00 | dc_ | I also hope to add a 'take screenshot' option |
| 20:44:01 | dc_ | :} |
| 20:44:27 | dc_ | pb_: http://gekk.homelinux.org/gpe-su.png |
| 20:47:31 | cmarqu | dc_: Doesn't that look right? Looks like here. |
| 20:47:49 | dc_ | :/ |
| 20:47:57 | dc_ | it should be alphaerized :/ |
| 20:48:30 | cmarqu | Oh, the X and the tick? |
| 20:48:34 | dc_ | yeah |
| 20:49:08 | cmarqu | Okay, then I'm seeing it too. |
| 20:50:34 | dc_ | hrm |
| 21:01:01 | pb_ | dc_: I think that's your own fault. |
| 21:03:16 | dc_ | oh dear :{ |
| 21:03:49 | pb_ | dc_: well, that might be a bit harsh, but remember how we talked about only being able to alpha to a flat colour? |
| 21:04:03 | dc_ | ooh |
| 21:04:09 | dc_ | kicks his gtk theme . |
| 21:05:10 | pb_ | I dunno what we can do about that, if anything. |
| 21:05:42 | cmarqu | But shouldn't the tick have a rectangular form then? |
| 21:06:16 | pb_ | Dunno. |
| 21:06:52 | dc_ | no |
| 21:07:03 | dc_ | that's its area of alpha |
| 21:07:10 | cmarqu | Maybe it's not really alpha in that area, but just opaque/non-opaque? |
| 21:07:17 | pb_ | Well, I guess alpha blending to a textured thing is theoretically possible, just needs some crazy h4x0r to take a stab at it. |
| 21:08:20 | moray | pb_: you'd have thought Mozilla would do it...? |
| 21:08:24 | dc_ | pb_: if if I gpe_load_icons is like main.c, can I still access the icons in foo.c ? |
| 21:08:44 | dc_ | moray: mozilla does.. |
| 21:08:44 | dc_ | heh |
| 21:08:47 | pb_ | dc_: yes |
| 21:08:51 | dc_ | cool :D |
| 21:09:11 | pb_ | moray: yeah, the rules are different for browsers :-) |
| 21:09:57 | moray | :) |
| 21:10:26 | moray | and I don't know about Xft, but RISC OS could do AA onto a textured background, which is the same problem |
| 21:10:57 | pb_ | moray: the difficult bit isn't actually doing the alpha blending (the code in render.c could easily be made more general), it's obtaining a pixmap of the background that Gtk is going to draw. I'm sure it's possible, but I don't have a clue how to do it. |
| 21:11:12 | dc_ | X hack |
| 21:11:12 | dc_ | L{ |
| 21:11:13 | dc_ | :} |
| 21:11:15 | dc_ | xD |
| 21:11:28 | pb_ | moray: RISC OS has the advantage that it was always rendering onto a local buffer, so it could actually do the blending in-place. |
| 21:12:01 | dc_ | wow |
| 21:12:01 | mallum | pb_: you may be able to get the parent widgets window background |
| 21:12:12 | dc_ | commits cool pixmap buttons for gpe-calendar |
| 21:13:09 | pb_ | dc_: :-) |
| 21:13:13 | mallum | pb_: what switch do I pass to gcc to get it to statically link a single library ( rather than linking the whole thing statically ) ? |
| 21:14:53 | pb_ | mallum: hmm, dunno if you can do that; you might have to specify the static library by pathname rather than -l. |
| 21:15:25 | mallum | pb_: like a libapm.a ? |
| 21:15:32 | pb_ | mallum: yup |
| 21:16:10 | pb_ | anybody been able to compile the mibus gpe-media? It dies looking for vorbis_codec.h on my machine. |
| 21:16:33 | dc_ | pb_: how do I make it so if I pass NULL for the button label string in gpe_picture_button it doesn't put any label? |
| 21:16:44 | pb_ | dc_: one moment |
| 21:18:06 | dc_ | pb_: n/m, did it myself :D |
| 21:18:08 | dc_ | bounces |
| 21:18:15 | pb_ | dc_: ah, I just committed it :-) |
| 21:18:22 | dc_ | ohoho |
| 21:18:23 | dc_ | =P |
| 21:18:29 | pb_ | heh |
| 21:18:34 | dc_ | pb_: if (text) ? |
| 21:18:37 | pb_ | right |
| 21:18:40 | dc_ | cool |
| 21:18:41 | dc_ | :D |
| 21:18:43 | dc_ | thanks |
| 21:18:48 | dc_ | you're damn fast! |
| 21:19:18 | pb_ | yeah, missed my vocation as a gunslinger. |
| 21:19:25 | dc_ | heheh |
| 21:21:10 | mallum | pb_: hmmm, it dont want to work. Im sure libapm used to exist only as .a now its a .so and the ipaq doesn't have it :( |
| 21:21:19 | dc_ | okay, commited my gpe-calendar stuff, time to watch a movie. |
| 21:22:00 | pb_ | mallum: what's your full link command line? |
| 21:22:12 | pb_ | dc_: cool, I'll try it in a moment. |
| 21:24:33 | mallum | pb_: its not helping its mached into a load of automake |
| 21:24:40 | mallum | pb_: and thats complaining too :( |
| 21:24:40 | pb_ | mallum: ugh |
| 21:24:57 | pb_ | mallum: but count your blessings, you could have libtool in there :-) |
| 21:25:07 | mallum | pb_: gcc -Os -Wall -g -DDEBUG -I/usr/X11R6/include -DDEFAULTTHEME=\"\" -DCONFDEFAULTS=\"\" -o miniapm miniapm.o tray.o -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXpm -lXext -lapm |
| 21:26:11 | pb_ | mallum: try putting "-static" just before "-lapm" |
| 21:26:51 | pb_ | mallum: or, if you just want a hack to get it going, remove /usr/lib/libapm.so. |
| 21:27:30 | mallum | pb_: automake wont let me specify -static before the -lapm. I have to set it on another var ! |
| 21:27:40 | pb_ | mallum: :-| |
| 21:27:49 | mallum | pb_: I think I'll drop the libapm.so |
| 21:32:01 | pb_ | dc[movie]: you forgot to realize your widgets before making the picture buttons. :-/ |
| 21:49:47 | pb_ | DaveH: I mailed you some stuff about links, sorry it took me so long to get around to it. |
| 21:51:27 | pb_ | mallum: by the way, I wonder why the ipaq doesn't have a shared libapm anyway. |
| 22:01:16 | DaveH | pb_:no prob ill read it a little later |
| 22:19:40 | spung | o o |
| 22:19:42 | spung | | |
| 22:19:44 | spung | \_/ |
| 22:23:45 | mallum | - - > ~ ~ < ---- => |
| 22:23:48 | mallum | | |
| 22:24:04 | mallum | ¬--- |
| 22:26:16 | mallum | hmmm |
| 22:40:18 | spung | mallum: what was that supposed to be? =) |
| 22:42:12 | spung | realizes he's going to have one of the most important exams of his life tomorrow morning |
| 22:47:36 | dc[movie] | nighyt :/ |
| 22:47:41 | dc[movie] | WAY to late :(( |
| 23:02:35 | cmarqu | Hey. pd is in the Debian Weekly News :) |
| 23:02:39 | cmarqu | pb even. |
| 23:02:49 | cmarqu | Philip Blundell pointed to the [52]GPE |
| 23:02:50 | cmarqu | effort which also uses Debian as base distribution apparently. |
| 23:02:55 | cmarqu | Not quite right, but still. |
| 23:03:20 | moray | cmarqu: well, from the point of view of promoting it to the Debian people it's near enough... |
| 23:03:55 | cmarqu | Yeah :) |
| 23:21:00 | cmarqu | Night all. |
| 23:27:05 | spung | oh well, wish me luck |
| 23:27:18 | spung | is away: sleep well for good exam tomorrow |
| 23:32:53 | moray | spung: I hope it goes well, yes! |
| 23:36:09 | mallum | spung: best of luck |
