00:21.14 | Nullivex | Sean-Der: u around? |
00:43.13 | Sean-Der | Nullivex, yes sorry! |
01:25.43 | Nullivex | Sean-Der: whats your username in FS? I want to have floele add you as a developer |
01:25.57 | Nullivex | Sean-Der: that way tasks can be assigned to you. right now I own most of them |
01:26.07 | Nullivex | Sean-Der: even if they have nothing to do with me |
01:26.17 | Sean-Der | Sean-Der is my username on bugs.flyspray.org |
01:26.26 | Sean-Der | You can take all the bugs thats fine :p |
01:26.50 | Sean-Der | Actually that is really good please assign me some so I can stop procrastinating haa |
01:27.20 | Nullivex | ya and we can get a lot more organized |
01:27.33 | Nullivex | i feel like we are snowballing this release and if we dont do it soon people are going to lose interest again |
01:28.35 | Sean-Der | Nullivex, yea I am starting to get a little burned out. I have been patching since November. I am glad you are here Nullivex we needed a good leader :) |
01:31.16 | Nullivex | Sean-Der: ya, I just saw no one else really pushing to get things moving. Lots of patches and good work, just no organization. I notice if people dont see their changes get pushed to the public they arent very likely to continue to contribute |
01:32.00 | Nullivex | Sean-Der: this is also part of my argument for even a basic extension system because contributers wouldnt need to go through us to get their addons out on the market which is huge for us |
01:32.51 | Nullivex | this also gives people that want to modify the system an easy documented way to do it, you have to think nearly everyone using FS is a coder of some sort and if it was easy for them to make modifications i know they would |
01:36.48 | Sean-Der | Nullivex, agree 100% with you. The easier we make Flyspray to hack the more it feels it target. The entry point for Bugzilla is high, Flyspray is perfect for the aspiring team or developer. I know Murugan is working on our Top Level site, but the bad info is quite off putting |
01:37.10 | Sean-Der | So assign away and this weekend I will start getting my share done |
01:39.55 | Nullivex | heck the reason i got onboard with the project was for the fact i wanted to start modifying some things |
01:43.40 | Sean-Der | Nullivex, so good thing it was so obfuscated or we would have never infected you :p |
01:44.27 | Nullivex | well i hate hacking code like this without a chance of it getting merged, cuz otherwise i have to re-apply the patches every time a new version comes out |
01:44.41 | Nullivex | so i went looking around the site and then noticed things were dead |
01:44.48 | Nullivex | it was weird how we all showed up at the same time |
01:50.12 | Sean-Der | Nullivex, I wanted to sharpen up my skills and I have never done open source work before, so I thought what the hell! Yea it was so weird you and scott literally showed up in a week of each other. Now we are a big happy family :D |
01:51.50 | Nullivex | hehe yep, check this out |
01:51.51 | Nullivex | for($vlan=++$pool['lo']; $vlan <= $pool['hi']; $vlan++) $vlans[] = $vlan; |
01:51.57 | Nullivex | i actually found a use for precrement |
01:53.45 | Sean-Der | You hipster :p I felt so cool because I finally found a reason to use a do{} while() hahah I made sure to print it out and frame it |
01:54.44 | Nullivex | the first time i did one was pretty chill |
01:54.49 | Nullivex | now i find myself using them all over |
01:54.55 | Nullivex | they are most common for timeout related coding |
01:55.31 | Nullivex | especially if you are moving data around in streams, the use for them there is pretty much a neccessity |
01:56.34 | Sean-Der | Nullivex, I used mine while waiting for a null terminator. I think am going to start following the Go style and always use a for() |
02:02.17 | Nullivex | Sean-Der: check this out http://pastebin.com/BbYBEYCk |
02:05.39 | Sean-Der | actually locking the tables before pulling data out of them, very tidy :D uhh ohh there is a wildcard though |
02:06.01 | Nullivex | which on the select? |
02:06.57 | Sean-Der | Nullivex, haha yes. I got chastised for it once so know I am scared to even dream of it |
02:07.43 | Nullivex | Sean-Der: but its future proof, i see the downsides to it in terms of memory allocation, but it beats rewrite an entire library every time i add a db field |
02:07.53 | Nullivex | Sean-Der: especially when those db fields get passed to unkown sources |
02:08.07 | Nullivex | Sean-Der: like straight to templates that need to make use of an unkown set of variables |
02:08.33 | Nullivex | you have to lock the tables in this case though otherwise you run the risk of a race condition if you assign two at once |
02:09.34 | Nullivex | Sean-Der: however, in your case the only thing i use is the vlan field so i modified the query :p |
02:11.11 | Sean-Der | Nullivex, Muhahah my goal is to always be able to whine about a code snippet. I am always explicit for minimalist reasons. Even though an extra key in my array REALLY doesn't matter I always like to work with the least data possible |
02:13.57 | *** join/#flyspray scottman (~scottman@75-169-55-144.slkc.qwest.net) |
02:14.05 | scottman | Sean-Der: your alive |
02:14.25 | Nullivex | scottman: ya, he is haha its surprising |
02:14.48 | Sean-Der | scottman, My network connection is... but the man is not :) |
02:14.51 | Nullivex | Sean-Der: thanks for the critiscism in that case i did change the call, but there are instances where it makes sense not to code like that, depends on how you use the data really |
02:16.21 | Sean-Der | Nullivex, I always worry about getting fat though. You see that when layers and layers get added on. It scares me how inefficent code becomes when you have an ORM and a template engine and so on |
02:17.36 | Nullivex | ya |
02:17.56 | Nullivex | as long as you make it a RULE that nothing gets nested past 2 you have nothing to worry about |
02:18.06 | scottman | hides his source code. |
02:18.22 | Nullivex | all the code i write has a controller -> model, then controller -> template |
02:18.44 | Nullivex | the controller handles all the data jockying so it never goes deeper |
02:18.48 | scottman | i use template engines, tt for perl and i like rain tpl right now, then i do what Nullivex does. |
02:18.51 | Nullivex | keeps the code controllable |
02:19.50 | Nullivex | then keep all your business logic inside functions helps keep your memory usage low, since php frees the memory on return |
02:20.08 | Nullivex | then stay away from arrays as references |
02:20.18 | Nullivex | they shouldnt even allow arrays to be referenced imo |
02:20.44 | Nullivex | well i guess in some circumstands (read only) it makes sense but if u have an array that gets passed as a reference to a function |
02:20.55 | Nullivex | then that function adds 1000 entries to it there is no way to control you rmemory usage |
02:20.56 | Sean-Der | It just seems more work than time you gain. I don't get things like smarty I maintain a product that uses it, I waste more time learning the syntax and doing it correctly than anything else |
02:21.01 | Nullivex | <PROTECTED> |
02:21.34 | Sean-Der | There was no opening tag :) when did this rant begin haha |
02:21.41 | Nullivex | haha |
02:21.51 | scottman | smarty is a big heavy |
02:21.55 | Nullivex | well i use templates that done use php but there is no logic in them |
02:21.58 | Nullivex | the controller does all the logic |
02:22.07 | Nullivex | instead of a template with logic |
02:22.10 | Nullivex | i use template chunks |
02:22.40 | Nullivex | sometimes the chunking of the templates gets a bit cryptic but it performs well and takes about 30 seconds to learn the system |
02:23.01 | scottman | templates can be awesome though |
02:23.05 | scottman | its just confusing ones |
02:23.09 | scottman | suck |
02:23.19 | Nullivex | ya they shouldnt be a programming language in themselves |
02:23.25 | scottman | it really helps when you have noobs who suck at programming |
02:23.29 | scottman | but are more designers |
02:23.30 | scottman | ;0 |
02:23.33 | Nullivex | i have never been a fan of php based templating because eventually someone will stick too much logic in them |
02:23.53 | scottman | yup |
02:23.58 | Nullivex | and the php method makes output control a pain |
02:24.06 | Nullivex | cuz you have to do a bunch of buffer wrapping |
02:24.32 | Nullivex | the template class i wrote hasnt been modified since 2004 lol |
02:24.37 | Nullivex | and its on sourceforge :p |
02:24.54 | scottman | http://bugs.flyspray.org/task/1719?project=1&order=severity&sort=desc&order2=id&sort2=desc |
02:24.56 | scottman | see that |
02:25.01 | scottman | that is sorta funny |
02:25.41 | Sean-Der | scottman, what is the element ID you speak of?! hahha . Maybe after more work I will see the point to a template engine, but PHP is easy and in the end I think you over engineer stuff |
02:26.08 | scottman | Sean-Der: whats this element ID you are referring me to |
02:26.30 | Sean-Der | scottman, you made a joke about web designers hah |
02:26.35 | scottman | i know |
02:26.37 | scottman | ;) |
02:26.38 | Nullivex | Sean-Der: under-engineering can lead to more resource usage than over-engineering :p |
02:26.43 | scottman | i dont over engineeeeer |
02:27.11 | scottman | i try to have job security |
02:27.13 | scottman | ;) |
02:27.20 | Sean-Der | scottman, IF ITS NOT IN ASSEMBLY ITS FAT AND OVER ENGINEER |
02:27.27 | Nullivex | minimal functions that dont recycle data end up using more resources than a more complex set of code |
02:27.32 | Nullivex | LOL |
02:27.36 | scottman | ah the assembly web server ;) |
02:28.03 | Sean-Der | Thats why I write code with pointers everywhere and variables with names like $stuff and $data |
02:28.15 | Sean-Der | They can never get rid of me now! |
02:28.32 | scottman | does php have a pointer system? |
02:28.34 | scottman | lol |
02:28.44 | Nullivex | Sean-Der: http://openlss.com/index.php?act=pages&page=download you should definitely read through the code, show take you about half an hour |
02:28.50 | Nullivex | let me know what you think |
02:28.53 | Nullivex | lol ya hardly |
02:29.12 | Nullivex | even with a pointer php still does malloc every 5 seconds |
02:29.20 | Nullivex | the oop system in php leaks memory like crazy |
02:29.30 | Sean-Der | Nullivex, ok I will! |
02:29.43 | scottman | i like to static reference |
02:29.54 | scottman | well use static classes |
02:30.03 | scottman | instead of making objects |
02:30.25 | Sean-Der | Memory usage is not a strong point of PHP. But really you shouldn't being using it outside of webdev so I have never had an issue. I always do have server side stuff in Python |
02:30.28 | Nullivex | ya i like using enum fields in myisam accompanied by class constants and a static array of those constants |
02:30.32 | Nullivex | so nice for typing and drop downs |
02:30.45 | scottman | Python :0 |
02:30.58 | scottman | your one of those dudes |
02:31.12 | Nullivex | Sean-Der: python's memory management isnt all that good either, if you need it to be low on memory u gotta use a strongly typed language IMO |
02:31.22 | scottman | f its all about Perl |
02:31.36 | Nullivex | if perl had an exception system i could tolerate it |
02:31.42 | scottman | lol |
02:31.47 | scottman | cpan |
02:31.55 | Nullivex | ya i used the one out of there |
02:32.00 | scottman | im sure there is a module |
02:32.00 | Nullivex | it was still hacky |
02:32.15 | Nullivex | exceptions are the shit |
02:32.19 | Sean-Der | scottman, Is it still 2000 people still use scary scary perl |
02:32.24 | Sean-Der | ;D |
02:32.31 | scottman | im trying to bring it back |
02:32.33 | scottman | ;) |
02:32.40 | scottman | the hype train is starting |
02:32.45 | scottman | but no one is getting on |
02:32.53 | scottman | :( |
02:32.57 | Sean-Der | Next thing I know you are gonna start talking about Haskell and Node.js hah |
02:33.03 | scottman | ive tried to convert my friend |
02:33.05 | scottman | he went to .net |
02:33.05 | Nullivex | lol @ haskell |
02:33.23 | scottman | dude |
02:33.24 | scottman | node.js |
02:33.31 | Sean-Der | Why god would you ever go to the Microsoft stack |
02:33.33 | Nullivex | couch db! |
02:33.36 | scottman | ive tried to get intot that |
02:33.40 | scottman | i dont think its ready yet |
02:33.41 | Nullivex | F# |
02:33.52 | scottman | haha |
02:33.56 | Nullivex | f# makes me laugh |
02:33.57 | scottman | my friend is an idiot |
02:34.05 | Nullivex | a microsoft language running on nix* |
02:34.10 | scottman | likes to use a GUI |
02:34.14 | scottman | i dunno |
02:34.42 | Sean-Der | SQL is dead, its all about buckets of data. I will hold out for a little while but I will pick up MongoDB eventually |
02:34.59 | scottman | pff no way, sql will never go away |
02:35.27 | Nullivex | ya agreed with scott on that |
02:35.30 | scottman | is mongodb the json db |
02:35.42 | scottman | brb putting kid to bed |
02:35.47 | Sean-Der | Oh I wholly agree on SQL never going away |
02:36.02 | Nullivex | i was sensing some sarcasm on ur post there Sean-Der |
02:36.11 | Nullivex | about it being dead |
02:36.11 | scottman | if anything |
02:36.11 | Nullivex | haha |
02:36.14 | scottman | ORM is taking off |
02:36.16 | scottman | :D |
02:36.17 | Sean-Der | Its just the industry goes crazy over every damn buzzword |
02:36.20 | Sean-Der | NOOOOO |
02:36.25 | scottman | yes |
02:36.28 | scottman | ORM |
02:36.29 | scottman | yes |
02:36.37 | Sean-Der | Your killing me BURN IT WITH FIRE |
02:37.08 | Nullivex | lol |
02:37.42 | Sean-Der | Why does everyone want to reinvent the wheel. Its like how everyone thinks that OOP was the answer. People need to actually RTFM |
02:38.54 | Nullivex | oop is a nice way to organize code but the expenses are very high |
02:39.19 | scottman | one reason why java does good on large scale projects because of its organization |
02:39.19 | Nullivex | i would do procedural programming all day if we just had a nicer way to do namespacing |
02:39.20 | scottman | jsp |
02:39.53 | Nullivex | i like function names like "create" then i like to have a classname of "users" so u get user->create |
02:40.00 | Nullivex | but that doesnt mean it needs to be a big bloaty class |
02:40.15 | Nullivex | could just be an abstract class with static functions and i would be a happy camper |
02:40.48 | Nullivex | and i have seen some people do some really f'd up stuff with classes |
02:40.59 | scottman | dont look at me |
02:41.00 | Nullivex | like FS does lol |
02:41.13 | Nullivex | the OOP in FS is a joke and makes me laugh |
02:41.17 | Sean-Der | I like structs to be honest. Data makes sense to be stored as an object, but functions shouldn't imo |
02:41.25 | Nullivex | the installer for example, have u guys read that code? |
02:41.48 | Nullivex | Sean-Der: it makes sense to have functions that manipulate that data to be in the class tho |
02:42.14 | Nullivex | im serious though, if you want to laugh at some OOP code read the FS installer |
02:42.35 | Sean-Der | Nullivex, It will make a good comedy night hahah |
02:43.44 | Nullivex | ya, we need to do some heavy overhauling on FS at somepoint but getting the ball rolling is still most important |
02:44.14 | Nullivex | the FS code is a hard to follow labyrinth |
02:44.46 | Sean-Der | I find that creating a super class that stores functions and then all the sub class inheriting most of the time is over complicated. OOP is good in some cases, but I have yet to be converted. structs are logical representations of objects that you use a Library of functions to manipulate |
02:45.40 | Nullivex | well i have become accustomed to making a class for each database table or group of database tables |
02:45.55 | Nullivex | models essentially is the only thing i use classes for |
02:46.02 | Nullivex | for scripting i rarely use classes just procedural |
02:46.09 | scottman | the installer yes |
02:46.10 | scottman | haha |
02:46.24 | Nullivex | installer is such a mess |
02:46.27 | scottman | yup |
02:46.35 | Nullivex | i exited that code quickly after i opened it |
02:46.46 | Nullivex | fixed the php 5.3 stuff and got out before i started rewriting it |
02:46.52 | Sean-Der | I will bring a girl home and read her the code. It will surely impress her |
02:47.12 | Nullivex | * nullivex hopes sean isnt serious! |
02:47.22 | scottman | i do that as well make a class for each db table |
02:47.34 | Sean-Der | just labeling static functions probably halved thrown warnings |
02:48.14 | Sean-Der | Of course I am not serious! What the hell would a girl be doing associating with me! |
02:48.43 | Nullivex | lol |
02:49.04 | Nullivex | i used to go out with a coder girl, she's out in utah |
02:49.07 | scottman | you know what |
02:49.27 | Nullivex | problem was, she was a C# girl :( |
02:49.31 | scottman | it just happened for me |
02:49.41 | scottman | then next thing you know we got married |
02:49.43 | scottman | have a kid |
02:49.46 | scottman | and now a nother one |
02:50.01 | scottman | now i have limited time |
02:50.06 | scottman | to do things |
02:50.07 | scottman | :( |
02:50.15 | Sean-Der | Nullivex, Never copulate with crazy... once you go Microsoft you never go back |
02:50.29 | scottman | did you guys see that java video |
02:50.30 | Nullivex | scottman: you should be thankful for that, its good to have balance |
02:50.35 | Sean-Der | scottman, Thats what you get for having a social life :P |
02:50.35 | scottman | i am |
02:50.56 | scottman | hold on i'll get the java video link |
02:51.01 | Nullivex | i have the hardest time keeping from getting completely addicted, good thing is friends come up start partying i have no choice but to bail |
02:51.21 | Nullivex | which is going to happen in about an hour here |
02:51.23 | scottman | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CTyb89iRLw |
02:52.32 | Sean-Der | HAHAAHA hope your not doing any open source... |
02:53.03 | scottman | i want to use a language that doesnt just run in windows |
02:53.05 | scottman | hahaha |
02:53.07 | scottman | funny stuff |
02:53.24 | Sean-Der | portability has never been a concern for Microsoft |
02:53.38 | Sean-Der | THROUGH SOAP THROUGH SOAP |
02:54.33 | Sean-Der | Scala Johansen hahaha |
02:59.06 | Nullivex | lmao |
02:59.09 | Nullivex | awesome video |
02:59.26 | Nullivex | hmm hmm hmm |
02:59.32 | Nullivex | whats the fastest way to diff two array sets |
02:59.53 | Nullivex | oh array_diff |
02:59.54 | Nullivex | lol |
02:59.55 | Nullivex | imma noob |
02:59.58 | Nullivex | RTFM |
03:00.31 | scottman | pff array_diff |
03:00.32 | scottman | noob |
03:00.51 | Sean-Der | Nullivex, I would write my own algorithm that starts on a random key. |
03:01.02 | Sean-Der | THEN PATCH EVERY PHP INTALL |
03:01.05 | scottman | Sean-Der: would you use a counter? |
03:01.08 | Sean-Der | Its for the best |
03:01.40 | Sean-Der | scottman, No! I have got no hw done because of you guys |
03:02.19 | Sean-Der | -_- I need to drop out of school screw lower money I hate college I have no friends there all business majors |
03:02.38 | scottman | dont drop |
03:02.45 | Nullivex | ya dont do that, what school u going to? |
03:02.59 | Sean-Der | University of Cincinnati |
03:03.11 | Nullivex | aside from one guy i used to work with in chicago, i have no friends that are coders |
03:03.23 | Nullivex | ive gotten used to it |
03:03.46 | Sean-Der | I have NO friends though. No one is into music or good food. Everyone wants to party and *do chicks* |
03:04.10 | Sean-Der | I should have left Cincinnati for school I was just afraid to lose my job |
03:04.13 | scottman | i have a few coder friends but they all lack motiviation |
03:04.13 | Nullivex | lol sounds pretty normal to me |
03:04.19 | Nullivex | $add = array_diff($cur_dcs,$vlans); $remove = array_diff($vlans,$cur_dcs); |
03:04.24 | Nullivex | that should work right? |
03:04.35 | scottman | si |
03:04.36 | Nullivex | meh never be afraid of losing a job |
03:04.57 | Sean-Der | How will I eat then :D |
03:05.00 | Nullivex | for every job you lose there will be 10 companies ready to hire you |
03:05.11 | Nullivex | speaking of which Sean-Der if you want to work in the chicago area |
03:05.22 | Nullivex | i have like 3 head hunters that keep badgering me about recommending someone to them |
03:06.36 | Sean-Der | Nullivex, I will get turned down because of my age. I am applied for CfA and this startup event in Chicago. If you think it is worth it though I will give it a shot! |
03:07.30 | Nullivex | how old are you? |
03:07.36 | Nullivex | i got hired at the state of colorado when i was 20 |
03:07.49 | Sean-Der | I am just barely 18 |
03:07.53 | Sean-Der | BARELY LEGAL |
03:08.58 | Nullivex | heh yave give it one more year |
03:09.02 | Nullivex | ill pass on your resume |
03:09.44 | scottman | im heading off |
03:09.48 | scottman | cya |
03:09.50 | Sean-Der | I will work for pennies though. I just need experience I will work 60 hrs for 40 hrs of wages. I just don't want to get stuck blahh work is stressful stuff |
03:09.55 | Sean-Der | Bye scottman ! |
03:10.01 | Sean-Der | May the force be with you |
03:10.02 | Nullivex | laters scottman |
03:10.25 | Nullivex | my advice Sean-Der go enjoy 18 and program a lil later, i mean dont give up on it completely |
03:10.36 | Nullivex | but dont work yourself today at this age, there is no great payoff for it |
03:10.56 | Nullivex | im only 24 and been doing this stuff since i was 12 |
03:11.03 | Nullivex | working professionally as a programmer since 19 |
03:11.49 | Nullivex | and i really wish i would have went and screwed around a little more but i am mkaing up for it now i guess |
03:12.39 | Sean-Der | Nullivex, I want to be like you someday. You have your stuff together most people at 24 are still crap as far as jobs. I just want to be respected as a programmer |
03:15.29 | xrogaan_ | hey |
03:15.34 | xrogaan_ | oh, I got you ! |
03:15.41 | Sean-Der | RUN |
03:15.55 | xrogaan_ | IF I GET YOU, I EAT YOU! |
03:16.05 | Nullivex | UH OH |
03:16.22 | xrogaan_ | anyway, the flyspray.sf.net redirect to the wrong website |
03:16.35 | Sean-Der | I am not a tasty snack.. |
03:16.39 | xrogaan_ | also, http://flyspray.org/development point to an unmaintained git repository |
03:17.00 | Sean-Der | flyspray.rocks.cc -_- hah |
03:17.29 | Nullivex | haha i guess we should report both of those |
03:18.03 | xrogaan_ | on another hand, is the 0.9.9 branch good enough to be installed ? |
03:18.22 | Nullivex | aside froma little timezone fiddling it should be fine |
03:18.26 | Nullivex | we have no open criticals on it |
03:19.03 | xrogaan_ | yeah, I meant "does the install works" ;) |
03:20.38 | xrogaan_ | arr, the sf.net repositories are slow as hell |
03:21.33 | Nullivex | haha that they are |
03:21.41 | Nullivex | and it should install and work just fine and should be stable |
03:21.47 | Nullivex | its frozen for release |
03:22.33 | xrogaan_ | nice |
03:22.42 | xrogaan_ | i've been following the ml discussions |
03:23.11 | xrogaan_ | All I need, is a good bts and the ability to closes issues through commit messages |
03:25.26 | Nullivex | closing through commit messages may take some modifications |
03:25.41 | Nullivex | but i have been trying to spearhead an extension system and i think that would be a great extension |
03:25.57 | xrogaan_ | well |
03:26.09 | xrogaan_ | you don't need extensions |
03:26.42 | xrogaan_ | if both the repository and the bts are hosted on the same machine, you could write a hook that update the database |
03:27.05 | Nullivex | i meant extension as a way to handle custom code that shouldnt neccessarily be part of the core |
03:27.27 | xrogaan_ | an API would be fine |
03:27.40 | Nullivex | ya well we need that too |
03:29.36 | Sean-Der | Well I am out for the night! Good talking to you Nullivex! Also xrogaan_ the extension will rock because we will have a library of extensions that the community can develop on the fly. Without having the edit the main tree of Flyspray |
03:30.02 | xrogaan_ | extensions are there to upgrade flyspray |
03:30.14 | Nullivex | alright Sean-Der have a good one |
03:30.14 | xrogaan_ | in a way, adding features. |
03:30.21 | xrogaan_ | bye Sean-Der |
03:30.21 | Nullivex | ya |
03:30.32 | Nullivex | and it will help us stay more minimal as a core package |
05:23.02 | *** join/#flyspray Sean-Der (~Sean-Der@NW1-DSL-74-215-64-154.fuse.net) |
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14:22.57 | Sean-Der | Nullivex, I went back and found some of the bugs I closed. I am missing a couple, but it would be just a huge pain to find them for a commit list that no one is going to read |
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20:46.19 | Sean-Der | Did we ever throw around the idea of setting permission on a project in Flyspray by group? |
20:46.54 | Sean-Der | Or is this something that would not be worth doing. My boss complained that he couldn't lock underlings out of R&D stuff |
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