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| 04:06.13 | ringlej | Hi. Is this a forum I can ask questions regarding buildroot? |
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| 20:13.55 | *** topic/#elinux by TimRiker -> Embedded Linux || http://eLinux.org/ || cross compile, uClibc, busybox, handhelds, post-sale linux installs ;-), etc. || free embedded linux training at http://free-electrons.com/news/news.2004-09-28/en || thoughts? http://tree.celinuxforum.org/CelfPubWiki/EmbeddedLinuxWiki |
| 20:16.47 | TimRiker | thoughts on the celf wiki article? |
| 20:30.08 | CosmicPenguin | TimRiker: I vote 1000 times for MediaWiki |
| 20:40.58 | TimRiker | CosmicPenguin: I don't like the MediaWiki "someone changed this page, go look to see the changes" |
| 20:41.15 | TimRiker | I very much like the moinmoin "here's the diff on the page" approach. |
| 20:43.43 | TimRiker | CosmicPenguin: what things about media wiki do you like over moinmoin? |
| 21:08.42 | CosmicPenguin | mediawiki has the diff stuff doo |
| 21:08.51 | CosmicPenguin | we use mediawiki for OLPC, and I love it |
| 21:11.02 | CosmicPenguin | http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Talk:Case_design&curid=1871&diff=13309&oldid=6789 |
| 21:11.12 | CosmicPenguin | I think you're talking about something like that |
| 21:11.41 | CosmicPenguin | I like the "article" and "discussion" distinction too - it really encourages wiki style commenting without messing with the basic message |
| 21:33.09 | TimRiker | CosmicPenguin: no. I'm talking about the change notification emails not a web page. |
| 21:33.18 | CosmicPenguin | oh |
| 21:33.28 | CosmicPenguin | Not sure what to say about that - I use an RSS feed personally |
| 21:33.31 | CosmicPenguin | to monitor the changes |
| 21:55.28 | TimRiker | how do you set which pages show up in your rss feed? |
| 21:57.02 | CosmicPenguin | My RSS feed is the recent changes list |
| 21:57.39 | TimRiker | and does the rss feed give you 1) the reason for the edit 2) a diff of the changes 3) the email/contact that did the changes 4) a replyto: link for the contact that did the changes? |
| 21:57.55 | TimRiker | so you get ALL the recent changes? that's not acceptable. |
| 21:58.29 | TimRiker | I want to hear when someone edits these 20 pages, not when someone touches the other 2000 I don't care about. |
| 21:59.11 | CosmicPenguin | That might be possible - I don't know |
| 21:59.20 | CosmicPenguin | my wiki is small enough that I can ignore the cruft |
| 21:59.36 | TimRiker | moinmoin will send me an email on the pages I specify (by page, category, or regex match) with a diff of the changes, the date, and the editor. |
| 21:59.45 | CosmicPenguin | As for 3) and 4) - that totally defeats the purpose of a wiki, IMHO |
| 21:59.51 | CosmicPenguin | e-mail and wiki do not mix |
| 22:00.59 | TimRiker | so you're off line at 4am, and someone hacks up your prized page, then 2000 regular normal edits go by, and you get online again. you don't want to know that your prized page got hacked up? |
| 22:01.01 | CosmicPenguin | I dunno - people tend to be really millitant about their wikis |
| 22:01.13 | CosmicPenguin | I have a watchlist... :) |
| 22:01.20 | TimRiker | which does what exactly? |
| 22:01.59 | CosmicPenguin | Anyway, I'm sure there are reasonable fixes for all these - I can't imagine that the wikipedia admins go very long without inventing ways to help themselves |
| 22:02.37 | CosmicPenguin | of all the wiki's I've used, mediawiki comes out on top |
| 22:02.41 | CosmicPenguin | moinmoin comes in second |
| 22:02.45 | CosmicPenguin | twiki is the worst wiki in the world |
| 22:03.01 | CosmicPenguin | thats all I know |
| 22:03.14 | TimRiker | I'll agree on twiki. but for me the order on is moinmoin on top with media 2nd. |
| 22:03.51 | TimRiker | I like moinmoin's categories and the diff in email. I have not seen any mediawiki that does those including wikipedia. |
| 22:04.49 | TimRiker | I like mediawiki's color schemes better than any that are included with moinmoin. however moinmoin kicks mediawiki's butt in useability. :) |
| 22:05.13 | CosmicPenguin | I don't agree |
| 22:05.21 | TimRiker | course I dislike the "article" and "discussion" distinction. I think it's very un-wiki-ish. |
| 22:05.40 | CosmicPenguin | moinmoin is better for publishing things |
| 22:05.49 | CosmicPenguin | mediawiki is better for evolving things |
| 22:05.57 | TimRiker | "let's talk about this document, but hide all of it so the random document reader does not participate in the discussion" |
| 22:06.16 | CosmicPenguin | of course, the wiki you are talking about is going to probably be more of a "publish" motif |
| 22:06.31 | CosmicPenguin | so most of the mediawiki features will go unused |
| 22:06.48 | TimRiker | you mean the mis-feature of hiding any discussion? |
| 22:07.06 | CosmicPenguin | So close the debate and use moinmoin already... :) |
| 22:07.29 | CosmicPenguin | I like moving the discussion - it keeps the content seperate from the stupid people |
| 22:07.40 | TimRiker | =) aw, that sounded like a cave. =) just debating the issue. I really am interested in your perspective. :) |
| 22:07.54 | CosmicPenguin | And the discussion is there, its just seperate |
| 22:08.33 | CosmicPenguin | I think with OLPC at least - the dicussion tab lets people ask questions and disent, while at the same time leaving the article less confusing for newbies |
| 22:08.39 | TimRiker | I just don't that I have to do more work (ie check the discussion page) so that the stupid people are not confused. |
| 22:09.04 | CosmicPenguin | I find the recently changed pages invaluable for that |
| 22:09.16 | CosmicPenguin | And I know wikipedia has more advanced features then we have enabled on OLPC |
| 22:09.23 | CosmicPenguin | of course, the OLPC community is maybe 20 people |
| 22:09.30 | TimRiker | I guess what I'd really like is "note" markup that is hidden unless you set your profile to "show notes" |
| 22:10.09 | TimRiker | so newbies see the clear page, but non-idiots can see the notes right next to what the note is commenting on. |
| 22:10.30 | TimRiker | er of course I meant non-newbies. |
| 22:12.25 | TimRiker | cause another thing about the "discussion" page that I don't like is that you have to give the context for what part of the "article" you are talking about. if the note was right on that page, then that's obvious. |
| 22:13.47 | CosmicPenguin | can't argue with that logic |
| 22:24.20 | [mbm] | in moinmoin you can put comments in the source using the "##" prefix, it remains invisible in the final markup so you can do things like "## No, we don't support xyz and never will, stop editing this page" |
| 22:25.08 | [mbm] | not quite the same as mediawiki's talkback, but just as effective |
| 22:27.55 | [mbm] | (an odd quirk of that is that the search feature will find things that are only in the comments and not in the final markup, leading to many confused newbies) |
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