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| 04:03.28 | T0mW | when you want to figure out FAT FS, ask an old timer... |
| 04:03.51 | T0mW | prpplague: when you want to figure out FAT FS, ask an old timer... |
| 04:03.58 | T0mW | prpplague: BTDT |
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| 05:13.29 | cdm | <sigh> |
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| 11:20.14 | Genesis | bonjour |
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| 12:36.09 | prpplague | morning folks |
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| 12:51.18 | pb_ | hi plague |
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| 12:52.54 | prpplague | pb_: morning |
| 12:52.59 | prpplague | pb_: its friday |
| 12:53.20 | prpplague | pb_: going on a pub crawl this evening? or just gonna grab some takeaway and a couple of tins? |
| 12:55.29 | prpplague | hmm, having problems getting my mtd driver to compile |
| 12:58.52 | prpplague | getting undefined ref to __arch_ioremap |
| 12:58.56 | prpplague | never heard of that one |
| 13:08.06 | prpplague | hmm, seems the lineo ppl have those commented out |
| 13:08.08 | prpplague | odd |
| 13:36.25 | prpplague | ~lart kergoth for being an freelance programmer |
| 13:36.34 | prpplague | wow |
| 13:44.42 | CosmicPenguin | I swear, more then half of your problems have been because of Lineo code |
| 13:45.01 | CosmicPenguin | why don't you just dump that stuff, and start new with the RMK kernel? |
| 13:45.45 | kergoth | lineo code? |
| 13:47.41 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: don't have time at the momment, almost done with it enough to roll out the proof of concept demo |
| 13:49.51 | kergoth | ? |
| 13:50.43 | CosmicPenguin | http://www.sonos.com/us/?tref=gstore |
| 13:50.55 | CosmicPenguin | It was dissused on /. yesterday |
| 13:51.15 | CosmicPenguin | It has the penguin inside, for whatever thats worth |
| 13:51.15 | kergoth | ah |
| 13:51.25 | file[laptop] | very cool |
| 13:51.47 | CosmicPenguin | If I bought something like that, I would have to pump my music collection up |
| 13:52.11 | kergoth | file[laptop]: heh, its kinda like that one device i wanted to create, but less flexible :) |
| 13:52.22 | file[laptop] | yeah |
| 13:52.24 | CosmicPenguin | kergoth: heh, yeah I thought that |
| 13:52.43 | CosmicPenguin | but in the end - what are the odds I'll find time and money to actually put anything worthwhile together on my own? :) |
| 13:52.49 | file[laptop] | c'mon advil, kick in! |
| 13:52.57 | kergoth | CosmicPenguin: hehe, indeed |
| 13:53.27 | CosmicPenguin | Of course, it would help if my desktop at home didn't crash as soon as I did anything worthwhile |
| 13:53.30 | CosmicPenguin | stupid memory, be less faulty |
| 13:54.49 | kergoth | congrats! |
| 13:55.54 | file[laptop] | supposedly my application for Google Summer of Code was accepted, I wonder if I'll get it... |
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| 14:12.53 | file[laptop] | ahhh thank god for advil |
| 14:18.25 | prpplague | ahhh thank god for meth |
| 14:23.29 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 14:23.52 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: actually barbados is pretty good about controling illegal drugs |
| 14:36.52 | CosmicPenguin | Wow - the interactive "recommended " tags thing in del.icio.us is pretty cool |
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| 14:42.25 | TheCollector | file[laptop]: congrats on graduation! what are your plans now? |
| 14:43.02 | CosmicPenguin | Hey's going to drink beer and stay out all night! |
| 14:43.17 | CosmicPenguin | I apologize |
| 14:43.51 | TheCollector | hehe |
| 15:11.09 | Genesis | bonne journee / have a nice day |
| 15:21.55 | prpplague | anyone know what the second arg of setup_initrd is? |
| 15:37.40 | CosmicPenguin | Oops - time to piss off IT |
| 15:41.18 | prpplague | s/off/on |
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| 16:08.18 | chouimat | What's Important To Men? |
| 16:08.18 | chouimat | 1- It is important to find a woman that cooks and cleans. |
| 16:08.19 | chouimat | 2- It is important to find a woman that makes good money. |
| 16:08.19 | chouimat | 3- It is important to find a woman that enjoys having sex. |
| 16:08.19 | chouimat | 4- It is important that these three women never meet. |
| 16:08.37 | prpplague | hehe |
| 16:09.24 | sjhill | wow, then i scored big time |
| 16:09.34 | chouimat | prpplague: btw you know why LA got all the lawyers and SF all the gays?? |
| 16:09.43 | sjhill | i'm afraid to ask |
| 16:09.53 | chouimat | SF had the first choice |
| 16:10.56 | prpplague | hehe |
| 16:10.58 | prpplague | good one |
| 16:11.36 | prpplague | chouimat: do you know the difference between a catfish and a lawyer? |
| 16:11.44 | chouimat | no |
| 16:12.22 | prpplague | chouimat: one is a cold blooded, bottom dwelling, scavanger |
| 16:12.26 | prpplague | chouimat: the other is a fish |
| 16:12.48 | chouimat | prpplague: lol |
| 16:13.53 | sjhill | how many Canadians does it take....ah....nevermind |
| 16:15.39 | prpplague | sjhill: hehe, saw where timsys just got a big injection of vulture^h^h^h^h^h^henture capital |
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| 16:19.05 | sjhill | prpplague: yeah, hey...i wish them the best...i just got tired of management not communicating properly |
| 16:19.28 | Genesis | bonne soiree / have a nice soiree |
| 16:19.38 | chouimat | sjhill: manager know how to communicate? |
| 16:19.49 | sjhill | chouimat: actually, yeah they do exist |
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| 16:20.22 | prpplague | sjhill: yea, btdt |
| 16:20.34 | prpplague | sjhill: i get the feeling that they are struggling |
| 16:20.57 | chouimat | sjhill: I got asked in a job interview why I quit my previous job with out having found a new one first ... I told the guy Mutual agreement .... (and I was thinking My old boss is an asshole and I agree with this) |
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| 16:21.45 | sjhill | heh |
| 16:22.11 | sjhill | prpplague: what are your impressions? |
| 16:22.52 | prpplague | sjhill: based solely on my reading of news and such...... |
| 16:23.24 | prpplague | sjhill: that they are over burdened with sales and management who think they are gonna ride to riches on the backs of OSS developers |
| 16:37.00 | T0mW | prpplague: I did have some old MicroSoft documentation of the FAT12/16 filesystems. I recently chucked it |
| 16:38.50 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe, yea, i got those articles from circuit cellar |
| 16:38.57 | prpplague | T0mW: looks like that should help |
| 16:39.20 | T0mW | the filesystem is three parts |
| 16:39.49 | T0mW | blind boot code, FAT table, data |
| 16:39.57 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, i got the structure ok, its getting from one section to the next seems to be the problem |
| 16:40.46 | T0mW | you actually have to start reading the device from the partition table to see how the device is organized |
| 16:41.02 | T0mW | its all math |
| 16:41.25 | T0mW | FAT entries are chains to allocations of data == a file |
| 16:41.32 | CosmicPenguin | T0mW: I thought the FS header had all the math already done for you |
| 16:41.37 | T0mW | nope |
| 16:41.43 | CosmicPenguin | Whats missing? |
| 16:43.17 | T0mW | I have to review, the CF-BOOTLOADER code went as far as calculating where the first data block on the drive started. I did not bother with building it further to traverse the FAT table to actually look for a file |
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| 16:43.47 | T0mW | There is some counter-intuitive stuff in the math, but this is MicroSoft stuff we are talking about? |
| 16:43.49 | T0mW | heh |
| 16:43.59 | CosmicPenguin | mkdosfs assumes a sector size of 512 bytes, maybe thats its own limitation |
| 16:44.25 | T0mW | correct, it is not an assumption though, it is part of the math |
| 16:44.41 | CosmicPenguin | #define SECTOR_SIZE 512 |
| 16:44.52 | T0mW | FAT systems could also have sectors that were 128byte, 512, 1024, etc |
| 16:45.18 | T0mW | like the Bournulle (sp?) floppy drive |
| 16:45.41 | CosmicPenguin | Right - but prpplague is messing with known hardware, for the most part |
| 16:45.54 | T0mW | that was a large, multiple surface, 8 inch floppy drive. It used 1K sector sizes |
| 16:46.09 | T0mW | I agree |
| 16:46.32 | T0mW | 512 byte sectors are "standard", but not absolute |
| 16:47.40 | CosmicPenguin | Also, the boot sector does have a field called sector_size |
| 16:47.42 | CosmicPenguin | and cluster_size too |
| 16:48.04 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea, thats sort of the problem all the examples i have don't directly assume 512byte sector sizes |
| 16:48.20 | T0mW | one constant was the boot block at logical sector 0, but logical sector 0 could be offset from the start of the "drive" due to the size of the partition table. The partition table can vary in length and has entries dictating how big it is. |
| 16:48.55 | CosmicPenguin | s/drivers/drives/ |
| 16:49.03 | T0mW | I've seen this with Lexar vs. Sanyo compact flash. the lenght of the partition table varies slightly |
| 16:49.29 | T0mW | s/Sanyo/SanDisk/ |
| 16:49.35 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, the odd math seems to be what i'm tripping up on |
| 16:49.55 | prpplague | T0mW: but i'm pretty sure this article is clearing that up |
| 16:50.42 | T0mW | once you establish the start of the FAT table, the size of the FAT entries (12 bit / 16 bit) and the start of the Data area, you have the information to begin your search of the directory entries. |
| 16:50.58 | T0mW | IIRC, the first directory is in the first Data cluster |
| 16:51.11 | T0mW | prpplague: good |
| 16:51.32 | prpplague | T0mW: its for doing fat16 on a pic so it written very low level |
| 16:51.41 | T0mW | prpplague: don't make assumptions about stuff though, if they say to calc something, do it. |
| 16:52.21 | T0mW | prpplague: ah, but FAT12 is organized differently, the table is a string of nibbles rather than a string of bytes |
| 16:54.23 | prpplague | T0mW: yea |
| 16:54.40 | prpplague | T0mW: just using fat16 and possible vfat |
| 16:54.49 | prpplague | T0mW: fat16 first |
| 16:55.07 | T0mW | IIRC, FAT strings always end with 0x800 or 0x8000? something like that, FAT entries are chains of cluster references. The first cluster pointed to within the directory entry for the file. You then hop over to the corresponding array index into the FAT to get the next cluster reference (provided it is not a "END OF CLUSTER CHAIN" marker) and repeat |
| 16:55.35 | prpplague | T0mW: right, understand all that |
| 16:55.58 | T0mW | you take the cluster number, then calc the Cylinder / Head / Track from that using the values you obtained from the partition table |
| 16:55.58 | prpplague | T0mW: problem i'm having is taking that cluster and getting to the right 512byte block |
| 16:56.23 | CosmicPenguin | cluster_size * sector_size should be your offset, IIRC |
| 16:56.24 | T0mW | partition table dictates the organization of clustering |
| 16:56.26 | prpplague | T0mW: right, thats the whole problem, getting that calc |
| 16:56.53 | T0mW | partition table has that info |
| 16:57.02 | CosmicPenguin | The filesystem header should too |
| 16:57.16 | T0mW | maybe |
| 16:57.27 | CosmicPenguin | thats what the code sex |
| 16:57.30 | CosmicPenguin | s/sex/sez/ |
| 16:57.42 | prpplague | i'll be looking at it again this afternoon probably |
| 16:58.31 | T0mW | like I said, I'd have to refresh my memory on this. I once had written a drive editor where I could edit the contents of a hard drive's sector. I think I still have that code as well. |
| 16:58.36 | T0mW | it is written in C |
| 17:00.21 | CosmicPenguin | From what I inferred from the code, FAT cluster size != disk cluster size |
| 17:00.47 | T0mW | correct |
| 17:00.54 | CosmicPenguin | Which makes sense, otherwise it wouldn't be possible to create a fat filesystem without the media |
| 17:01.24 | CosmicPenguin | So the only really hard part is finding the boot sector, but after that, its all gravy |
| 17:01.42 | T0mW | it goes back to the partition table, you had to partition the drive before you put a filesystem on it. So the partition table data is also inportant. |
| 17:01.50 | T0mW | CosmicPenguin: correct |
| 17:01.51 | CosmicPenguin | To find the partition |
| 17:02.11 | T0mW | once you find the Logical Sector Zero, it is fairly simple from there |
| 17:02.40 | file[laptop] | illogical! |
| 17:02.42 | T0mW | the bitch can be accessing Physical Sector Zero to read that partition table entry |
| 17:06.39 | CosmicPenguin | thats probably not good |
| 17:07.59 | T0mW | no, I cannot find that source. I'd written that maybe 18 years ago... |
| 17:08.20 | T0mW | it's not on the 1998 backup, I'll try an earlier one |
| 17:08.24 | T0mW | eject |
| 17:08.30 | T0mW | oops |
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| 17:19.59 | CosmicPenguin | doh |
| 17:20.00 | CosmicPenguin | horrible luck |
| 17:20.16 | CosmicPenguin | they're taking the whole site to the movies today, but I have to do an interview for Austin, so I can't go |
| 17:21.23 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:21.36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: they interviewing you, are you interviewing someone else |
| 17:22.16 | CosmicPenguin | I'm interviewing somebody else |
| 17:22.27 | CosmicPenguin | If I ever even thought about moving to texas, I would probably have to commit hari kari |
| 17:22.51 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 17:22.54 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: why? |
| 17:23.03 | CosmicPenguin | I just don't like it one bit |
| 17:23.29 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:23.38 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: could you be more qualitative? |
| 17:25.12 | CosmicPenguin | I've lived my entire life at 4000 feet and higher, I don't suffer heat or humidity well, I need it to snow at least three months out of the year, and i struggle with the attitude of most Texans in general |
| 17:27.28 | CosmicPenguin | Also, I need the highest mountain in the state to not be the Dallas city dump |
| 17:27.38 | T0mW | nope, lost in the gray annals of time... must have lost it when I tried that drive compression program |
| 17:28.16 | T0mW | what was that pre Win95 drive compressor called, the one that MS purchased to make "drivespac" ? |
| 17:28.31 | CosmicPenguin | THe one with the ads with the blowfish? |
| 17:29.02 | kergoth | T0mW: stacker? |
| 17:29.18 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: curious about the attitude thing |
| 17:29.34 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: how do perceive the "texan" attitude? |
| 17:49.55 | T0mW | kergoth: yeah! that PoS |
| 17:51.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: interviewing for a dev position? |
| 17:51.25 | CosmicPenguin | yeah, senior software position |
| 17:51.51 | CosmicPenguin | Strangely, while I know scads of engineers in Dallas (or at least, who used to be in Dallas) |
| 17:51.57 | CosmicPenguin | I don't know anybody in Austin |
| 17:52.14 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea austin is a different world |
| 17:52.32 | CosmicPenguin | Strange though - from what I hear, the place is lousy with engineers |
| 17:52.41 | CosmicPenguin | you would think at leats one would have stumbled into #elinux |
| 17:52.54 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea, what i term "corporate engineers" |
| 17:53.22 | kergoth | T0mW: didnt ms get sued by them for patent infringement? |
| 17:53.31 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: different mental direction imho |
| 17:53.33 | CosmicPenguin | Yeah, but I hear that there are lots of tiny software houses in Austin too |
| 17:53.34 | T0mW | yeah, then they settled |
| 17:54.14 | T0mW | kergoth: it was copyright infringement, we didn't have software patents back then |
| 17:54.21 | kergoth | ah thats right |
| 17:54.31 | T0mW | the good old days... |
| 17:54.45 | T0mW | back before you could patent software, heh |
| 17:54.46 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe, yea, but they operate more like shops out of bangalore than something in the states |
| 17:54.58 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: yeah, I get that impression |
| 17:55.15 | T0mW | prpplague: chop-shop software? |
| 17:55.18 | CosmicPenguin | Definately not silicon valley circa 97 |
| 17:55.21 | prpplague | T0mW: yea |
| 17:55.34 | prpplague | T0mW: they have it down to like you were ordering a pizza |
| 17:55.40 | T0mW | :) |
| 17:56.00 | T0mW | 80% of your requirements can be met, cheaply |
| 17:56.25 | prpplague | hehe, yea |
| 17:57.47 | T0mW | prpplague: GetMediaDescriptor() is the cf_bootloader stuff that learns the structure of the drive |
| 17:58.36 | T0mW | like I said, Lexar and SanDisk have slightly differing interpretations of how a drive is to be described. |
| 17:58.50 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, i've most of it covered, its just getting the math right |
| 17:58.55 | T0mW | that's becuase the old MicroSoft FAT spec was a bit vague |
| 18:00.29 | T0mW | prpplague: I'm also interested in MMC. I do have some connectors for them, just haven't tried it out yet |
| 18:00.46 | prpplague | T0mW: pretty easy stuff via spi |
| 18:01.20 | T0mW | SCL, SPA + SCK ? |
| 18:01.56 | prpplague | SDO, SDI, SCLK, CS |
| 18:02.34 | T0mW | This little LPC2106 board I'm ready to fabricate has SPI on it, maybe I'll stick an MMC socket on the prototype to play with the stuff |
| 18:02.48 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: really? the SDO and SDI lines were bidrectional, though, right? |
| 18:03.00 | CosmicPenguin | oh, wait |
| 18:03.02 | prpplague | T0mW: i have collected alot of info on it http://www.elinux.org/wiki/MMC |
| 18:03.05 | CosmicPenguin | scratch that - stupid question |
| 18:03.09 | prpplague | hehe |
| 18:03.14 | T0mW | prpplague: saw that, thanks |
| 18:03.20 | prpplague | T0mW: don't go with a mmc socket |
| 18:03.20 | CosmicPenguin | You did it the funky way.. :) |
| 18:03.26 | T0mW | no? |
| 18:03.28 | prpplague | T0mW: make sure you get a sd socket |
| 18:03.37 | T0mW | 9 pin right? |
| 18:04.09 | prpplague | yea |
| 18:04.51 | prpplague | T0mW: its next to imposible to get mmc cards cheaply now |
| 18:04.52 | T0mW | that's what I've got |
| 18:05.14 | T0mW | SD does do the MMC protocol, right? |
| 18:05.18 | prpplague | T0mW: no, wait the sd is 11 pin |
| 18:05.23 | T0mW | oh |
| 18:05.51 | prpplague | usually with a card detect and wp |
| 18:06.02 | prpplague | T0mW: you might have a sd socket without those |
| 18:06.08 | prpplague | T0mW: you would need to check |
| 18:06.28 | CosmicPenguin | SD spec says 9 pins minimum |
| 18:07.38 | T0mW | I have a couple of Memorex "Secure Digital" memories here, all three are 9 pin |
| 18:07.54 | prpplague | T0mW: but the sockets aren't just 9 pin |
| 18:08.10 | prpplague | T0mW: most all have 11 |
| 18:08.37 | prpplague | T0mW: pin 10 - card detect, pin 11 write protect |
| 18:09.05 | T0mW | ok |
| 18:09.42 | prpplague | T0mW: if your sd card fits in it, it should be ok |
| 18:09.46 | T0mW | I guess you can card detect by trying periodically to talk to it, and assume write protect if a write fails |
| 18:09.57 | prpplague | T0mW: yea |
| 18:10.10 | prpplague | T0mW: we connected those to gpios |
| 18:10.20 | T0mW | I bought these SD memories last August |
| 18:10.48 | T0mW | prpplague: you're saying that your memories have 11 pins on them, or just the sockets do? |
| 18:11.31 | prpplague | T0mW: just the sockets |
| 18:11.37 | T0mW | k |
| 18:11.55 | T0mW | prpplague: you had me worried Dave |
| 18:12.35 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe |
| 18:12.48 | prpplague | T0mW: sorry, just didn't want you making the same mistake we did |
| 18:13.07 | prpplague | T0mW: our first revision we use mmc sockets instead of sd |
| 18:13.13 | prpplague | T0mW: major pain |
| 18:13.19 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
| 18:13.30 | T0mW | these were listed, at Digikey, as SD sockets |
| 18:13.39 | prpplague | ahh ok |
| 18:14.08 | T0mW | I'll check to see if they have the 11 pin stuff, but I don't have many spare pins left on this board design |
| 18:14.42 | T0mW | oh wait, I do have 11 pins on the one processor |
| 18:15.16 | T0mW | now if I had space to route new signals on this board, this board is tiny |
| 18:15.57 | T0mW | all TSSOP, SOP packages + 0603 resistors + caps |
| 18:16.17 | T0mW | flysheet stuff |
| 18:16.47 | sjhill | what is 0603 all about? |
| 18:17.19 | T0mW | about 1mm long |
| 18:17.28 | sjhill | rock on |
| 18:18.04 | sjhill | my company announced contract wins totalling almost a 1/2 billion $ today |
| 18:18.08 | T0mW | I contacted the people that sparkfun has their mylar paste masks made, they seem to think they can build me a mask |
| 18:18.19 | T0mW | sjhill: RAISE TIME! |
| 18:18.27 | sjhill | yeah, it's coming |
| 18:19.14 | sjhill | SGI Tezro here i come |
| 18:19.23 | T0mW | sjhill: you don't work at Time Sys no more? |
| 18:20.13 | T0mW | file[laptop]: bad day? |
| 18:20.25 | file[laptop] | meh not feeling the best |
| 18:20.37 | file[laptop] | and I'm anxious for a reply from Google to see if my summer of code application was accepted |
| 18:21.11 | T0mW | file[laptop]: ah, like doing volunteer work, eh? |
| 18:21.25 | T0mW | file[laptop]: little or no money |
| 18:21.30 | file[laptop] | well, I was going to work on this anyway... |
| 18:21.54 | T0mW | file[laptop]: you just get the glorious line on your resume that you worked for Google |
| 18:22.01 | T0mW | heh |
| 18:22.20 | file[laptop] | plus $4500, but meh |
| 18:22.58 | file[laptop] | see the problem with working on Asterisk is that to get anything into the CVS tree, is a PITA... |
| 18:23.20 | file[laptop] | by going through the summer of code thing I can get Mark's attention easier, and for longer periods of time... SO it'll be easier to get him to put stuff in... |
| 18:24.42 | T0mW | prpplague: I think that you meant that the SD vs. MMC was that SD is 9 pin and MMC is 7 pin? The SanDisk doc on the Wiki shows MMC to be 7 pins? |
| 18:25.04 | T0mW | prpplague: rather than SD == 11pin vs. MMC == 9 pin? |
| 18:26.08 | CosmicPenguin | T0mW: from what I can tell from the spec, the SD card has 9 pins, but prpplague is recommending adding two more pins to the socket for the card detect and write protect |
| 18:26.25 | CosmicPenguin | The SD spec says there are 9 card contacts |
| 18:26.37 | T0mW | yes, he is, but the MMC spec shows only 7 pins on the device |
| 18:26.45 | CosmicPenguin | CD/DAT3, CMD, Vss1, Vdd, CLK, Vss2 DAT0, DAT1, DAT2 |
| 18:26.52 | T0mW | while an SD has 9 pins |
| 18:27.10 | CosmicPenguin | Thats right |
| 18:27.23 | T0mW | ok |
| 18:27.51 | CosmicPenguin | But neither card has a write protect contact |
| 18:28.17 | T0mW | mine has slider to write protect |
| 18:29.03 | CosmicPenguin | Our controller has an additional line that detects write protect from the socket |
| 18:29.10 | CosmicPenguin | Card detect too |
| 18:29.30 | T0mW | card detect is passive signal? hi or low? |
| 18:30.43 | T0mW | CosmicPenguin: sorry, I know you are under NDA |
| 18:30.59 | CosmicPenguin | heh - no problem - its not like the board isn't available |
| 18:31.18 | CosmicPenguin | But I don't know anything about the quality of the signal, but its a GPIO thats seperate from the SD controller |
| 18:31.32 | CosmicPenguin | Or at least, thats what I read to figure out card status |
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| 18:37.44 | T0mW | AH, there is a mechanical switch on the side of the socket for the card detect! Also mechanical for Write Protect detection, that is where Dave is getting the 11 pins from. |
| 18:38.13 | T0mW | 9 pins on the SD + 3 pins on the mechanical |
| 19:01.18 | sjhill | yaboot is great, why? |
| 19:01.23 | sjhill | yamon i mean |
| 19:01.44 | CosmicPenguin | I want to be able to add stuff |
| 19:02.10 | CosmicPenguin | Its great - but doesn't it sometimes annoy you it can't load a kernel from within a filesystem like grub does? |
| 19:04.50 | T0mW | whew! the mechanical footprint on this SD connector has a lot of dimensions to it! |
| 19:18.41 | Crofton|laptop | CosmicPenguin, you hit the nail on the head about auto* |
| 19:22.58 | *** join/#elinux CP|Laptop (~nobody@aus-ext-proxy02.amd.com) |
| 19:23.47 | CP|Laptop | mmm.... video confrencing |
| 19:24.35 | Crofton|laptop | CP|Laptop, I am hating auto* |
| 19:35.11 | CP|Laptop | welcome to the dark side |
| 19:35.28 | CP|Laptop | first comes hate |
| 19:35.40 | CP|Laptop | then comes reluctant acceptance |
| 19:41.59 | Crofton|laptop | I have half a dozen config.guess's in various /usr/shar dirs |
| 19:42.08 | Crofton|laptop | I guess I just picke one ... |
| 19:50.07 | T0mW | prpplague: heh, the SD connector is too big to find a spot for it on this board! |
| 19:50.45 | prpplague | T0mW: yea it took 2 weeks for us to layout our board so it would fit |
| 19:51.16 | T0mW | in comparision, it is HUGE |
| 19:52.30 | prpplague | hehe |
| 19:52.39 | prpplague | T0mW: got any photos of your board? |
| 19:53.15 | T0mW | no photos, can give jpeg? it is currently 3.75 X 3 inches |
| 19:54.31 | T0mW | I may stretch it 0.25 in both directions to fit: MMC + beeper + one more SPST button |
| 19:55.22 | prpplague | T0mW: you must have it packed then |
| 19:55.31 | prpplague | T0mW: our board is about the same size |
| 19:55.38 | prpplague | T0mW: with mmc/sd |
| 19:58.09 | T0mW | prpplague: http://www.openhardware.net/board.gif |
| 19:58.30 | T0mW | prpplague: that doesn't have the 4 LEDs on it |
| 19:58.49 | prpplague | interesting |
| 19:58.56 | prpplague | T0mW: wish i could show you this board |
| 19:59.07 | T0mW | twin LPC2106 processors |
| 19:59.37 | T0mW | I needed more than RAM, so I added another processor and split the tasks |
| 20:00.15 | T0mW | THAT is cool! to have self contained processors that you can just plop down on a board! |
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| 20:00.22 | prpplague | T0mW: our board is 1.75x2.25 |
| 20:00.40 | T0mW | ooo! that is small! Can you tell me the CPU? |
| 20:01.00 | T0mW | prpplague: Multi-layer + uBGA ? |
| 20:01.23 | prpplague | T0mW: duh, lh79520 |
| 20:01.35 | T0mW | my board is only two layer, didn't want to go to more than 2 layers |
| 20:01.50 | T0mW | no reason for me to go *that* small, heh |
| 20:02.14 | T0mW | prpplague: so, your company is going for the full "daze-n-amaze" |
| 20:02.26 | prpplague | T0mW: yea |
| 20:02.31 | T0mW | :) heh |
| 20:02.54 | T0mW | "...just slightly larger than an SD memory device..." |
| 20:08.30 | *** join/#elinux file[laptop] (~file[lapt@mctn1-3366.nb.aliant.net) |
| 20:11.31 | prpplague | T0mW: yea its pretty small |
| 20:12.49 | T0mW | ideally, you want to make it cheap enough that you never have to repair the thing, just toss it and give them a replacement board |
| 20:14.11 | prpplague | yep |
| 20:14.16 | prpplague | its pretty cheap |
| 20:14.33 | prpplague | whole dev kit will be less that $200 |
| 20:15.41 | T0mW | ... and that includes profit |
| 20:17.16 | prpplague | yea |
| 20:18.53 | T0mW | hmmm, MMC card might be the way to go... Logging + software updates... |
| 20:19.16 | CosmicPenguin | and a small little chip that you can swallow if being chased by your enemies |
| 20:19.31 | T0mW | :D |
| 20:20.16 | T0mW | might interfere with the Wifi chip in my head |
| 20:21.58 | prpplague | T0mW: might think about using mini-sd |
| 20:22.08 | prpplague | T0mW: for your small board it would be perfect |
| 20:22.23 | prpplague | T0mW: we are gonna us mini-sd on the next revision of our board |
| 20:22.28 | T0mW | I forgot about those |
| 20:22.31 | CosmicPenguin | Is that that RS-MMC form factor? |
| 20:23.08 | T0mW | IIRC, mini-sd is not that miniature... |
| 20:23.18 | T0mW | just slightly smaller |
| 20:23.37 | prpplague | T0mW: its about 1/2 the size of std-sd |
| 20:24.52 | CosmicPenguin | cute |
| 20:25.18 | T0mW | I think that is still very much bleeding edge hardware. |
| 20:25.55 | T0mW | We still need something that is easy to get, not in danger of becoming a nitch type device. |
| 20:26.58 | T0mW | something that small would blow out of your hand in a stiff breeze |
| 20:28.58 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, alot of cell phones are using it these days |
| 20:30.05 | T0mW | yeah, got to have someplace to cache the webpages |
| 20:31.43 | T0mW | prpplague: curse you |
| 20:31.59 | T0mW | prpplague: now all I can think about is how to stick MMC on the card |
| 20:32.09 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:34.25 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:43.48 | prpplague | TimRiker: did you find that arm simulator i suggested? |
| 20:44.54 | CosmicPenguin | He found the stimulator instead |
| 20:44.58 | CosmicPenguin | thats why he's been gone for a while... :) |
| 20:45.10 | T0mW | hah ha! |
| 20:45.18 | T0mW | ah sheet |
| 20:51.10 | T0mW | prpplague: now it will fit |
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| 21:08.28 | kergoth | hmm, anyone know any good sites for freelance/contract programming and/or admin work? |
| 21:08.31 | kergoth | heh |
| 21:11.12 | CosmicPenguin | Well, if you are really desperate there's always contractedwork and elance... :D |
| 21:15.03 | kergoth | need to get some cash flow happening, and dont want to take non-technical work.. and the local job market for technical stuff sucks |
| 21:15.05 | kergoth | heh |
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| 21:22.59 | *** join/#elinux cdm (~cdm@17.255.212.165) |
| 21:31.57 | T0mW | kergoth: try looking at dice.com ? |
| 22:26.28 | CosmicPenguin | Thats why the lady is a tramp |
| 22:27.14 | T0mW | kergoth: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-5759605.html |
| 22:29.07 | CosmicPenguin | <PROTECTED> |
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| 22:33.51 | T0mW | CosmicPenguin: report is suspect though, there is no mention of PHP at all |
| 22:34.25 | jacques | heh |
| 22:34.34 | jacques | can't wait til MS abandons .NET |
| 22:35.37 | T0mW | give them time, they will back themselves into a corner as they usually do |
| 22:36.44 | MonMotha | I love talking in #linuxhelp on EFNet. You get people insisting that 1GHz = 1024Mhz |
| 22:37.04 | MonMotha | then, when you correct them, they go off on how a PIC micro is clocked at 20MHz but only runs 5MIPS |
| 22:38.54 | T0mW | hmmm, 29 hits on "linux embedded" for NY, NJ, and PA |
| 22:44.12 | CosmicPenguin | http://seeker.dice.com/jobsearch/servlet/JobSearch?op=101&dockey=xml/6/e/6ee48378f9ac867a5512f6f492f47863@activejobs0&c=1&source=1 |
| 22:44.14 | CosmicPenguin | THere's a fun one |
| 22:45.06 | T0mW | I'd never work for a company that adverts for "C++ Embedded" |
| 22:45.27 | T0mW | means that engineering manager has no clue |
| 22:46.26 | T0mW | CosmicPenguin: that does sound cool, wonder if the final product will be painted green |
| 22:46.26 | T0mW | ? |
| 22:46.41 | CosmicPenguin | I'm assuming so |
| 22:46.45 | T0mW | yeah |
| 22:46.51 | T0mW | I'm outa here |
| 22:47.00 | CosmicPenguin | C++ prefered - nice to see our boys in uniform get nothing but the best |
| 22:52.12 | CosmicPenguin | I'm looking forward to the PCMCIA hotplug stuff |
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