| 00:02.07 | *** join/#elinux AMDPenguin (~nobody@aus-ext-proxy02.amd.com) |
| 00:02.19 | AMDPenguin | I'll tell you what - my proxy can kiss my ass |
| 00:37.42 | Sgt-Donan | bn |
| 00:37.56 | T0mW | wb |
| 00:37.59 | T0mW | heh |
| 00:38.26 | T0mW | looks like I won $100 in the local state lottery, I only play once every few years |
| 00:38.53 | T0mW | that'll buy a box of decent cigars |
| 00:39.52 | *** join/#elinux AMDPenguin (~nobody@aus-ext-proxy02.amd.com) |
| 00:44.01 | *** join/#elinux hufnus (~slonsiki@m3d1036d0.tmodns.net) |
| 01:03.34 | MonMotha | T0mW: congrats |
| 01:03.56 | T0mW | tnx |
| 01:04.00 | MonMotha | if you'd won a few times that, maybe you could bribe the guys at Cadence to make some decent software :) |
| 01:04.22 | MonMotha | you're a ham, btw, right? |
| 01:04.23 | T0mW | It was like 63 million pot, so I just bought one on a whim, I never play it. |
| 01:04.29 | T0mW | WN3L |
| 01:04.34 | MonMotha | going to dayton? |
| 01:05.00 | T0mW | naw, don't need anything except a place to put the HF rig and get it on the air again. |
| 01:05.11 | MonMotha | heh, I need to acquire a decent HF rig |
| 01:05.24 | MonMotha | fixing up boat anchors is nice and fun, but sometimes I think I might want to do sideband... |
| 01:05.28 | T0mW | I do need some kevlar line, some RG58, and insulators to rebuild my diploe |
| 01:05.40 | T0mW | Kenwood TS-850 here |
| 01:05.50 | MonMotha | Heathkit DX-60B :=) |
| 01:05.55 | T0mW | bought it about 10 years ago at Dayton |
| 01:06.00 | MonMotha | not bad |
| 01:06.21 | T0mW | Big investment at the time, cost me $1600 |
| 01:06.27 | MonMotha | yeah, that was a really nice rig |
| 01:06.27 | T0mW | with options |
| 01:07.12 | MonMotha | the club here has a TS-2000X (w/ 1.2GHz). Nice rig. Could have a lower noise floor, though |
| 01:07.34 | MonMotha | but then I'm comparing it with a KWM-2 |
| 01:07.37 | T0mW | I like it, other than their freaking ThunderDiode, damn lightning protection circuit sux, I burned it tuning up on 20mtrs, then blewout the receiver from a near lightning strike (0.5 miles away) |
| 01:07.44 | T0mW | yah |
| 01:07.58 | T0mW | digital is never as quite as vacuum tubes |
| 01:08.03 | T0mW | tubes are much quieter |
| 01:08.21 | T0mW | semi-conductors have a tendancy to "fry" |
| 01:08.25 | MonMotha | well, this thing also has DSPs out the wazoo, so there's a nasty A->D->A conversion happening, though the filters are nice |
| 01:08.26 | *** join/#elinux file[mac] (~jcolp@mctn1-3494.nb.aliant.net) |
| 01:08.46 | T0mW | I haven't found a DSP like I like, that is really worth the money, you know |
| 01:08.59 | T0mW | of course |
| 01:09.07 | T0mW | it has been about 6 years since I last looked |
| 01:09.22 | T0mW | I would like a tiny HF rig for the mobile |
| 01:09.25 | MonMotha | agreed, though I do get some use out of this one. It has variable low and high cutoffs for the audio bandpass (and the DSP runs at IF) |
| 01:09.36 | T0mW | nod |
| 01:09.36 | MonMotha | yeah, my friend AG4ZP has a nice Yaesu all bander |
| 01:09.48 | MonMotha | I've been tempted to get one, about $700 I believe |
| 01:09.55 | T0mW | yeah |
| 01:10.04 | MonMotha | if they have it on an unusually good special at dayton, I might get it, but that's doubtful |
| 01:10.10 | T0mW | heh |
| 01:10.18 | T0mW | they might, wait til the last day |
| 01:10.38 | MonMotha | unfortunately, I won't be there on Sunday |
| 01:10.41 | T0mW | MonMotha: it's only a credit card away. ;) |
| 01:10.49 | MonMotha | yeah yeah |
| 01:10.53 | T0mW | heh |
| 01:10.54 | MonMotha | $700 is a lot of $$$ |
| 01:10.57 | T0mW | it is |
| 01:11.14 | MonMotha | though a friend and I are thinking of blowing $3k each on an arcade |
| 01:11.21 | MonMotha | so, it's not too bad when compared to taht :) |
| 01:11.31 | T0mW | I'd like to mount a DK3 "screwdriver" antenna on the mobile again and run 40/17mtr mobile again |
| 01:11.56 | MonMotha | that's what my friend does |
| 01:12.02 | MonMotha | he does pretty damn well, actually |
| 01:12.39 | T0mW | It can be a blast, you go on long trips the HF is more entertaining than VHF/UHF repeaters, try finding a PL tone while driving |
| 01:13.00 | T0mW | much less setting it into the radio |
| 01:13.04 | MonMotha | I've noticed |
| 01:13.04 | T0mW | at 70mph |
| 01:13.10 | T0mW | brb phone |
| 01:13.10 | *** join/#elinux noclouds (~mhfan@60.166.171.151) |
| 01:13.25 | MonMotha | though I can't imagine logging HF stuff @70MPH is much fun |
| 01:13.25 | MonMotha | ok |
| 01:19.08 | T0mW | MonMotha: back, was asking a friend about a woman I met last Friday |
| 01:19.11 | T0mW | she's married |
| 01:19.13 | T0mW | darn |
| 01:19.54 | T0mW | MonMotha: I don't log while mobile, I tell 'em I'm mobile and if they want a card, they know what to do. |
| 01:20.19 | MonMotha | yeah, I try to keep logs as much as possible, just so I have them |
| 01:20.26 | MonMotha | but that works to |
| 01:20.28 | MonMotha | o |
| 01:20.30 | T0mW | I don't collect QSL cards, not since I WAS on 40 mtr phone. Never bothered with the cert, just wanted to do it and get the cards |
| 01:20.45 | T0mW | I do log contacts from the home though |
| 01:21.01 | T0mW | nice to look the log over and see where you've been |
| 01:21.18 | MonMotha | hum, I'm a bit concerned about creating a ground loop here. I've got video ground and system ground. I know normally one could probably get away with connecting them, but this particular machine has a very strange concept of "ground" |
| 01:21.20 | T0mW | I still have a paper log |
| 01:21.29 | T0mW | heh |
| 01:21.31 | MonMotha | yeah, we do paper too, except for contests |
| 01:22.08 | MonMotha | well, the box of the system unit in a DDR machine is at about 3VAC relative to earth ground. I found that out when I sort-of (well, did) trip the breaker on the thing when I hooked my frequency counter up |
| 01:22.35 | T0mW | MonMotha: use a voltmeter to check differential on voltage & current between the grounds, that'll give you an idea what would happen if you connnected them |
| 01:22.40 | MonMotha | then of course, I have no clue if -5V is actually hooked up on these damn things |
| 01:22.47 | T0mW | current meter |
| 01:22.50 | MonMotha | T0mW: I would, except the machine is about 100 miles away right now |
| 01:22.54 | T0mW | lol |
| 01:23.15 | T0mW | guess you're not going to connect anything at that range |
| 01:23.17 | MonMotha | the previous version of this adapter had the two grounds connected, and to our knowledge no ill effects occured |
| 01:23.35 | T0mW | current meter should tell you |
| 01:23.49 | T0mW | few millamps should be ok |
| 01:23.49 | MonMotha | it's just that blowing this up in one way or another would be very, very bad. replacement parts are multi kilodollars |
| 01:23.56 | T0mW | nod |
| 01:23.59 | MonMotha | yeah, I can hook it up and measure I guess |
| 01:24.06 | MonMotha | leave a jumper header |
| 01:24.51 | MonMotha | I just hate to end up with two grounds on this darn board |
| 01:24.56 | MonMotha | I'm not very familiar with the implications of that |
| 01:25.02 | T0mW | the 3vac might only be stray magnetic field from the power supply inducing a low level current in the chassis? |
| 01:25.31 | T0mW | aluminum will respond to 60hz magnetic field |
| 01:25.58 | MonMotha | T0mW: it's possible. To my knowledge, the box isn't even connected up to anything (hence why it's not actually at ground). However, hooking up my probe's ground clip to it was enough to get the machine to shut itself down due to overcurrent a few seconds later |
| 01:26.24 | MonMotha | to me, that doesn't say "low current induced by a magnetic field" |
| 01:26.26 | T0mW | plus, you may be seeing some stray leakage from the input circuit of the supply. MOV / bypass cap leakage |
| 01:27.05 | T0mW | MonMotha: series or switching supply? |
| 01:28.02 | T0mW | Switching supply could give a hot ground if your wall socket is mis-wired |
| 01:28.10 | MonMotha | it's a switching |
| 01:28.18 | MonMotha | the unit in question is a DDR machine, btw |
| 01:28.27 | MonMotha | I assume it's switching at least |
| 01:28.41 | T0mW | I've seen that, where switcher would work on reversed Hot & Neutral from 110v line, but would have heavy ground current |
| 01:28.42 | file[mac] | did I hear DDR? |
| 01:28.47 | MonMotha | it's possible the wall outlet is miswired. It was added after the fact by who knows who. I could certainly check that. If that's a case, it certainly needs to be fixed |
| 01:28.53 | MonMotha | file[mac]: not the memory kind |
| 01:29.00 | file[mac] | Dance Dance Revolution! |
| 01:29.06 | MonMotha | yes, that kind |
| 01:29.10 | T0mW | ~cluebat file |
| 01:29.11 | ibot | ACTION pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps file. |
| 01:29.18 | file[mac] | stop that old man! |
| 01:29.19 | MonMotha | I'm making a board to let you hook a playstation up to a DDR cabinet |
| 01:29.23 | file[mac] | if you tried it you would break your bones |
| 01:29.59 | file[mac] | HA |
| 01:30.04 | T0mW | :D |
| 01:30.05 | file[mac] | but you're still a nice guy regardless ;) |
| 01:30.11 | T0mW | most times |
| 01:30.42 | T0mW | "Nice Guys Sleep Alone" |
| 01:30.53 | file[mac] | true, true |
| 01:31.04 | MonMotha | hum, I really hope mouser isn't stupid |
| 01:31.21 | T0mW | mouser has such a lame website, digikey is much better |
| 01:31.30 | MonMotha | I made a very small order from them (so small you could throw it in a #10 envelope), and I told them to ship it 1st class mail. My luck they'll put the darn thing in a huge box and charge me $20 to ship it |
| 01:31.33 | MonMotha | s/ship/mail/ |
| 01:31.39 | T0mW | yup |
| 01:31.54 | MonMotha | T0mW: yeah, but they don't charge me an extra $5 if I don't order $25 worth of stuff |
| 01:32.00 | MonMotha | which is hard to do when the most expensive thing you're ordering is a $1 connector |
| 01:32.22 | T0mW | digikey's search engine is funky, their parts descriptions are so chaotic that it is sometimes hard to find stuff |
| 01:32.40 | MonMotha | yeah, I've noticed that having a hard copy catalog is useful with Digikey |
| 01:32.44 | MonMotha | mouser too |
| 01:32.57 | T0mW | sometimes yeah, but their freakin' catalog is sooo huge! |
| 01:33.08 | MonMotha | true |
| 01:33.16 | T0mW | they've got some cool shit though |
| 01:33.56 | MonMotha | think it's really important to put a 75Ω termination on the ends of an RGB connection from a playstation? |
| 01:34.06 | MonMotha | cable is only a couple meters long |
| 01:34.12 | file[mac] | wow, this IRC client rendered that ohms perfectly |
| 01:34.21 | T0mW | I have to put together an order soon to Digikey, must prototype a design so I can drop onto customer's desk to get him to purchase it |
| 01:34.23 | MonMotha | yea for unicode |
| 01:34.46 | T0mW | I got garbage for ohm |
| 01:35.02 | file[mac] | yay for my Mac |
| 01:35.07 | MonMotha | T0mW: your client doesn't support unicode then. Not that it's really in the IRC spec, which I believe calls for US-ASCII |
| 01:35.09 | T0mW | MonMotha: SWR still applies |
| 01:35.20 | MonMotha | T0mW: true, though the line is likely to be electrically short? |
| 01:35.28 | T0mW | more so |
| 01:35.34 | MonMotha | I guess it's not a huge deal to put the darn resistor on the board |
| 01:35.47 | T0mW | even traces on a circut board are affected |
| 01:35.52 | MonMotha | and since it's otherwise driving the input of an op-amp (aka, wow, that's high impedence), probably a good idea |
| 01:36.12 | T0mW | faster your processor goes, the more likely termination is going to be important |
| 01:36.21 | T0mW | rise times |
| 01:36.24 | MonMotha | T0mW: processor? there's nothign digital about this board :) |
| 01:36.30 | T0mW | :) |
| 01:36.43 | T0mW | naw, it that just an aside |
| 01:36.48 | MonMotha | http://martinbv-3.student.rose-hulman.edu/~monmotha/jamma1.pdf is an older revision |
| 01:36.49 | T0mW | s/it// |
| 01:37.05 | MonMotha | yes, fast edge times mean that there are very high frequency harmonics to worry about |
| 01:37.19 | MonMotha | if there's anything I learned from my EMC class I just went through hell for, that's one of them |
| 01:37.59 | MonMotha | hum, that version doesn't appear to have the termination resistors on it, they're on the current revision |
| 01:37.59 | T0mW | You might want to put 75ohm carbon comp resistors to ground across the coax inputs. Won't hurt |
| 01:38.28 | T0mW | then the length of cable is meaningless, as long as cable is also 75ohm |
| 01:38.32 | MonMotha | any particular reason metal film wouldn't work? |
| 01:38.45 | T0mW | like wirewound, it is inductive |
| 01:38.53 | T0mW | although at lower resistances |
| 01:39.01 | MonMotha | they're notable inductive at a few megahz at most? |
| 01:39.20 | T0mW | the effect is negligable, higher resistances (> 100K) it becomes pronounced |
| 01:39.31 | T0mW | better to develop good habits early |
| 01:39.55 | MonMotha | yeah, I usually do consider the inductance of my resistor (especially with wirewound, or any type at HF and above) |
| 01:40.14 | T0mW | :) wierd science |
| 01:40.21 | MonMotha | no kidding |
| 01:40.38 | MonMotha | I've been toying with the idea of building a 2.4GHz downconverter. That's turning out to be, well, complicated |
| 01:40.41 | T0mW | AM == absolute magic, FM == Fscking Magic |
| 01:40.59 | MonMotha | partially since Cadence Layout isn't particularly versed in the idea of the impedance of traces |
| 01:41.08 | MonMotha | heh |
| 01:41.10 | T0mW | yeah |
| 01:41.49 | T0mW | as you know, the dielectric constant of the PCB is important at the higher freqs |
| 01:41.56 | MonMotha | yes |
| 01:42.12 | MonMotha | you have to start treating traces as actual transmission lines above the groundplane |
| 01:42.34 | T0mW | I've stayed away from RF design as the digital micros have my attention, hard to mess things up at 20MHz |
| 01:42.45 | MonMotha | yeah, that's my domain of choice as well |
| 01:43.01 | T0mW | +15v/-15v is about as high as I go |
| 01:43.10 | MonMotha | http://martinbv-3.student.rose-hulman.edu/~monmotha/PSXMIDI-13.pdf is what I just milled earlier today |
| 01:43.22 | MonMotha | I guess a schematic would probably be more useful, but eh |
| 01:43.34 | T0mW | yah, cool |
| 01:44.20 | MonMotha | the giant DIP in the middle is an Atmel 8051 with the 6clock/inst feature |
| 01:44.37 | T0mW | I like 16..24 mil traces myself |
| 01:44.46 | MonMotha | I could have gone SMT, but then I'd need an adapter to program them |
| 01:44.56 | MonMotha | I don't even remember what those traces are |
| 01:45.01 | T0mW | 12? |
| 01:45.01 | MonMotha | I designed that board in January |
| 01:45.14 | T0mW | they look to be 10 or 12 |
| 01:45.17 | MonMotha | they're much bigger than 12 |
| 01:45.27 | MonMotha | looks like about 16 on the final product |
| 01:45.56 | MonMotha | just a little wider than the mills around them which were 15, so actually probably bigger since I can tell the difference and I usually can't see 1mil |
| 01:46.02 | T0mW | ok, maybe the layout tool doesn't print a checkfile the same as the gerber |
| 01:46.18 | T0mW | I've seen that |
| 01:46.37 | MonMotha | yeah, I don't know that that file is exactly to scale wrt the traces |
| 01:46.58 | MonMotha | the actual traces are almost as wide as the SOIC pins on the top |
| 01:47.05 | T0mW | anyway, I'm debating on declaring the $100 as income, or just pocket the cash... |
| 01:47.17 | MonMotha | $100? Will they report it? |
| 01:47.27 | T0mW | heh, I keep the books fairly well. I'll prolly report it |
| 01:47.39 | MonMotha | always the safe choice |
| 01:47.50 | T0mW | cheaper than a audit |
| 01:47.58 | MonMotha | yep |
| 01:48.30 | T0mW | well, time to reformat the new MythTV box and get this IR keyboard stuff packaged |
| 01:48.39 | MonMotha | unfortunately, I screwed up making this board slightly. Decided against running the 31mil mill on the back, so it may be a bit tough to solder, and then the top traces aren't perfectly aligned with the drills since we have to flip |
| 01:49.37 | T0mW | I usually take a flood with a copper fill for ground inside the unused area of the PCB. After all, that is copper that is on the board anyway, why strip it off? |
| 01:50.22 | MonMotha | well, since I didn't strip it all off, that's essentially what I'm going to end up with |
| 01:50.24 | T0mW | not many board houses anymore use the copper plating approach, not environmentally friendly. not that etchant is |
| 01:50.50 | MonMotha | yeah, we start with copper clad here and mill the traces awawy |
| 01:50.56 | T0mW | MonMotha: you building the pcb yourself? etching it? |
| 01:51.06 | MonMotha | nope, Rose has a little milling machine |
| 01:51.10 | T0mW | ah |
| 01:51.12 | T0mW | nice |
| 01:51.32 | MonMotha | $15 for a double sided board, usually free if you provide your own drill bits and mills (which the ham radio club has a set for members to use) |
| 01:51.52 | MonMotha | a lot cheaper than places like 4pcb, even with student discounts |
| 01:51.54 | T0mW | I've looked at them, but the problem was always the feed thrus and feeding signals at the pin from top to bottom, you had to make sure you soldered both sides of pin |
| 01:52.11 | MonMotha | yeah, though we do have a plating machine |
| 01:52.17 | T0mW | cool |
| 01:52.33 | MonMotha | takes like 2 hours to plate the board, plus 1-2 hours to warm the machine up ahead of time, but we do have it |
| 01:52.34 | T0mW | is that laser etching? |
| 01:52.40 | T0mW | or milling |
| 01:52.45 | MonMotha | no, real milling |
| 01:52.47 | T0mW | k |
| 01:53.01 | MonMotha | we also have an IR reflow oven, at least I think that's what that was (didn't really look too tough) |
| 01:53.28 | T0mW | someday you may have to have your own asic die producing machine |
| 01:53.39 | MonMotha | we have a MEMS lab |
| 01:53.47 | T0mW | MonMotha: I was looking at toaster oven, want to give that a try |
| 01:53.49 | MonMotha | not quite, though Im' guessing one could do some stuff in there |
| 01:54.04 | MonMotha | yeah, I've been told people have remarkable luck doing QFPs with toaster ovens |
| 01:54.17 | MonMotha | how do they solder BGAs in production? I can't think of a good way |
| 01:54.29 | T0mW | get a plate lased out for the mask and do a board that way (squeegee) |
| 01:54.39 | T0mW | MonMotha: over |
| 01:54.44 | T0mW | MonMotha: oven |
| 01:54.45 | T0mW | drate |
| 01:54.56 | T0mW | fingers are getting dyslexic |
| 01:55.02 | MonMotha | I'd think you'd melt the darn chip |
| 01:55.52 | T0mW | slow warmup, then hard fast heat, quick cooldown to moderate temp, followed by quick cool to < 100F |
| 01:56.08 | MonMotha | makes sense I guess |
| 01:56.14 | MonMotha | just enough to reflow the solder balls |
| 01:56.21 | T0mW | you have to carefully control the heating ramp up/down, then the carrier doesn't absorb much heat |
| 01:57.32 | T0mW | convection oven should handle smt ok, it is the bga that I wonder about. I would think that a hot nitrogen gas would be needed for them to carry the heat under the chip carrier |
| 01:58.11 | T0mW | although, from what I've researched on the web, there seem to be people using convection (toaster ovens) to mount bga |
| 01:58.15 | MonMotha | I've not heard of people having much luck working with BGAs at home, at least not without destroying the chip in the progress |
| 01:58.20 | MonMotha | really? |
| 01:58.21 | MonMotha | wow |
| 01:58.55 | T0mW | MonMotha: talk to Russ about that, he turned me onto some stuff |
| 02:00.32 | T0mW | MonMotha: http://pcbexpress.com/essentials/index.php |
| 02:01.36 | T0mW | MonMotha: they don't mention any bga on that site, but they will give you the stencil for pasting |
| 02:03.01 | T0mW | I'd like to try that sometime. the setup I have now is a pnuematic powered syringe to apply a thread of paste onto the pads. It is not very accurate and time consuming to paste up a board. Stenciling might be easier |
| 02:07.34 | T0mW | MonMotha: http://pcbexpress.com/projects/index.php |
| 02:27.46 | MonMotha | let me take a look... |
| 02:29.02 | MonMotha | I know you can buy pre-pasted SMT resistors and caps, but I dunno about BGAs |
| 02:29.09 | MonMotha | depends on the maker too, obviously |
| 02:29.13 | MonMotha | much harder to multisource ICs |
| 02:29.43 | MonMotha | I soldered some resistors/caps by hand using an iron, wasn't too bad. Just tin the pad, place the pre-pasted part on, tap it with the iron |
| 02:31.59 | T0mW | I'm looking over articles on modifying a toaster oven to behave as reflow. Microprocessor control of heating elements by relay + thermocouple to sense temp. |
| 02:32.03 | MonMotha | wow, this is the most difficult to read mechanical detail I've seen in a while |
| 02:32.07 | MonMotha | ah, neat idea |
| 02:32.15 | T0mW | could be |
| 02:32.30 | jacques | latest is the electric skillet |
| 02:32.41 | jacques | better than oven because it only heats the bottom |
| 02:32.52 | T0mW | I'm wondering if you couldn't take two ovens to make one, mount the elements from one into the other for faster rise time of heat? |
| 02:33.27 | MonMotha | jacques: many toaster ovens I've seen have a bake/broil/toast setting |
| 02:33.31 | jacques | http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorial/ReflowToaster/reflow-hotplate.htm |
| 02:33.34 | MonMotha | bake only turns on the bottom element, broil top, toast both |
| 02:33.37 | jacques | http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorial/SMD_Printing/SMD_Printing.htm |
| 02:33.44 | jacques | these guys have actually tried it all |
| 02:33.59 | jacques | everything from "pro" reflow ovens on down |
| 02:34.03 | T0mW | http://www.circuitcellar.com/library/print/0704/Lacoste_168/Lacoste-168.pdf |
| 02:34.08 | jacques | yeah that's old |
| 02:34.10 | jacques | :-) |
| 02:34.13 | T0mW | k |
| 02:34.19 | jacques | the sparkfun stuff is a response to that |
| 02:36.18 | jacques | they also have a $2.50/in board deal, tho they raised it to $5/in for first timers because they had so many clueless ppl taking up their time |
| 02:36.29 | jacques | their forums are good too |
| 02:42.39 | MonMotha | hum, I'll have to try with a hotplate |
| 02:42.52 | MonMotha | I wasn't aware you could actually contact heat a PCB like that without damaging it |
| 02:46.13 | T0mW | jacques: good site, thanks |
| 02:47.01 | jacques | T0mW, you're welcome, someone in another channel turned me onto it a few months ago |
| 02:47.44 | T0mW | skillet!? |
| 02:48.03 | T0mW | low tech solutions are the least thouhgt of |
| 02:48.36 | MonMotha | T0mW: yeah, that looks very interesting |
| 02:48.46 | MonMotha | hotplates are dirt cheap too |
| 02:49.39 | jacques | they have a scan of their $32 Target receipt :-) |
| 02:49.44 | MonMotha | yeah |
| 02:50.05 | MonMotha | hum |
| 02:50.27 | MonMotha | these mechanical drawings are turning out to be difficult to interpret |
| 02:50.41 | T0mW | cons: Skillet sides can burn arms |
| 02:50.44 | T0mW | heh |
| 02:51.31 | MonMotha | yeah, I noticed that |
| 02:51.37 | MonMotha | I also noticed they complained about 220V |
| 02:51.44 | MonMotha | what's wrong wtih 220V? as long as it can tolerate 240... |
| 02:52.21 | jacques | harder to find a place to plug it in no? |
| 02:52.38 | jacques | like a clothes dryer or some window unit air conditioners |
| 02:55.26 | MonMotha | I guess |
| 02:55.40 | MonMotha | I'd think most placesl ike this could probably get 240V run fairly easily, it's likely available |
| 02:55.55 | jacques | like what? |
| 02:55.57 | MonMotha | only issue would be if your office has 3 phase, in which case you'd have 208, but not 220/240 |
| 02:56.07 | MonMotha | like a basement or small industrial park |
| 02:56.07 | T0mW | I am interested in the mylar stencil and paste applicator. I may still go with a toaster oven just the same |
| 02:56.12 | jacques | they are researching solutions for hobbyists |
| 02:56.38 | MonMotha | jacques: ah, I got the impression it was more geared towards small firms |
| 02:56.51 | T0mW | yeah |
| 02:57.23 | T0mW | I've seen small companies using a solder pot for pcbs instead of flow soldering |
| 02:57.24 | jacques | they want to serve hobbyist market, were complaining in the forum about companies chewing them out about board delays on their $2.50/in deal |
| 02:58.18 | T0mW | heat the pot up, then "dip" the bottom of the board into the pot |
| 02:58.19 | T0mW | heh |
| 02:58.43 | T0mW | talk about low-tech |
| 03:00.05 | MonMotha | jacques: ah |
| 03:01.04 | MonMotha | jacques: that's actually cheap enough I'd even consider it. I can make basically any reasonably size board (up to like 10"x14") for effectively free, but it takes like 2-3 hours just to run the mill, then it's another 2 hours to do hole plating, and god forbid I want a soldermask and silkscreen |
| 03:01.36 | jacques | yeah they include all the "extras" in their price |
| 03:01.44 | MonMotha | at that point we're talking a whole day to make a board here (which while fun, may not be what I'm in the mood for), so $2.50/in (since I'm pretty sure I can figure this stuff out, especially after making a couple myself) for all that is a darn nice deal |
| 03:02.03 | jacques | in the forums they talk about how you can get curved shaped boards and different color solder mask - black white blue red |
| 03:05.20 | MonMotha | yeah, that could be kinda cool |
| 03:06.30 | jacques | but you pay for the rectangle that your shape fits in naturally - no integrating curves to get area :-) |
| 03:06.40 | MonMotha | awwww :) |
| 03:06.46 | jacques | lol |
| 03:06.56 | MonMotha | I really wish orcad layout didn't suck so badly... |
| 03:08.57 | T0mW | MonMotha: btdt, orcad sux |
| 03:09.46 | MonMotha | btdt? |
| 03:10.51 | jacques | been there done that |
| 03:11.00 | MonMotha | ah |
| 03:11.03 | jacques | ~btdt |
| 03:11.04 | ibot | it has been said that btdt is Been There Done That |
| 03:11.04 | MonMotha | yeah, it has "issues" |
| 03:11.09 | MonMotha | ah, ibot knows that one |
| 03:11.27 | MonMotha | unfortunately, OrCAD is what Rose uses (and it's at least free for me, therefore) |
| 03:20.44 | Russ | pcb all the way |
| 03:21.19 | Russ | and then get the boards at run.to/pcb |
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| 04:13.27 | T0mW | Russ: you use any smd stencils |
| 04:14.00 | Russ | I haven't had the opportunity to use any |
| 04:14.05 | Russ | but I've seen them used |
| 04:15.30 | T0mW | the mylar stencils look to be very interesting, I'm tired of using the pnuematic paster |
| 04:15.47 | Russ | mylar instead of steel? |
| 04:17.04 | T0mW | I haven't used either, just a syringe |
| 04:17.22 | Russ | same here, but all the stencils I've seen are laser cut steel |
| 04:19.25 | T0mW | http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorial/SMD_Printing/Stencil-10.jpg |
| 04:19.47 | T0mW | $20 basic charge + $1/sq inch |
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| 04:50.11 | Russ | can anyone play this stream? mms://211.43.217.86/arirang/lsk/lsk_300k_2005-04-06_198.asf |
| 04:51.09 | pigeon | works under mplayer |
| 04:51.23 | Russ | audio? |
| 04:52.24 | pigeon | very slow... let me download it first... |
| 04:52.31 | Russ | its streaming |
| 04:53.20 | pigeon | nope, seems no audio even i play the downloaded file |
| 04:53.31 | pigeon | oh hand on |
| 04:53.33 | Russ | yup, that's what I'm getting too |
| 04:53.35 | pigeon | i hear something |
| 04:53.39 | pigeon | and then nothing |
| 04:53.52 | Russ | is there anyway to force mplayer to use dll's? |
| 04:53.57 | pigeon | got like half a second of audio, then no audio |
| 04:54.11 | pigeon | you can use -ac/-vc to specify which decoder to use |
| 04:54.21 | pigeon | -ac help/-vc help to list |
| 04:54.59 | pigeon | ahha! |
| 04:55.05 | pigeon | -ac wmadmo works |
| 04:55.29 | pigeon | wmadmo dmo working Windows Media Audio DMO [wmadmod.dll] |
| 04:55.32 | pigeon | that's the one |
| 04:56.14 | pigeon | any luck? |
| 04:56.47 | Russ | ah |
| 04:56.56 | Russ | thanks |
| 04:57.05 | Russ | now I just need to reencode the audio |
| 04:57.31 | pigeon | heh, cool |
| 04:58.11 | Russ | I think 'mencoder mms://211.43.217.86/arirang/lsk/lsk_300k_2005-04-06_198.asf -ac wmadmo -ovc copy -oac mp3lame' might work |
| 04:58.56 | pigeon | yeah |
| 05:00.11 | Russ | I think I might need a -forceidx or something |
| 05:00.41 | pigeon | i'll probably -dumpstream -dumpfile xxx.asf first and then mencode that later... |
| 05:00.50 | pigeon | (that's just me :) |
| 05:01.25 | Russ | having trouble getting audio in sync |
| 05:01.46 | pigeon | hmm... |
| 05:06.47 | pigeon | try things like -ofps and -mc 0 |
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| 05:14.00 | Russ | doesn't seem to help |
| 05:22.21 | Russ | hmm.. |
| 05:22.31 | Russ | ok, I'll just dump them, and play them with the dll |
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| 11:04.33 | prpplague | AMDPenguin: http://www.cooltechzone.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1276 |
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| 12:08.39 | jcath | hi, anyone play with s3c44b0 before? thanks! |
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| 13:11.51 | chouimat | morning |
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| 14:01.40 | prpplague | hmm, i have a couple of dev policy questions i need to ask, hopefully the channel will be a little more active shortly |
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| 14:24.36 | prpplague | GvzEvxre: http://kiel.kool.dk/ look someone has done an sd/mmc mode to the wrt54g similiar to my mod for the zip and pixter |
| 14:26.39 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: morning |
| 14:26.51 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: morning |
| 14:27.21 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: when ya get a second, i'd like to throw some questions at you regarding dev policies |
| 14:29.32 | CosmicPenguin | okay |
| 14:31.28 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ok, now i know my environment is a little different than yours, however i'd like to see how you approach this |
| 14:32.17 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: like currently busybox is at a pretty stable release of 1.00 which means if you need to do mods to it, you can take your sweet time and not worry about a new release coming out tomorrow |
| 14:32.41 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: on the other hand, some apps, are getting new releases a couple times a month |
| 14:33.26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: and in the middle is things like the kernel, while not being a fast moving target, it is still moving |
| 14:34.27 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: so the question is how to do decide where to draw the line in trying to do your dev? if you settle on today's version of an app, do your dev work, and its out of date tomorrow, then what? |
| 14:36.55 | CosmicPenguin | hold on |
| 14:44.47 | CosmicPenguin | Well, thats actually one of my biggest problems |
| 14:45.16 | CosmicPenguin | Because our validation and stablity process is the tall pole - if I chose a version today, then it will be several months before it peters out the other side |
| 14:46.18 | CosmicPenguin | But, if I had my way |
| 14:46.44 | CosmicPenguin | I would institute a regular release schedule - The day the release cycle started, we would use the latest stable version available on that day |
| 14:47.41 | CosmicPenguin | All development would be against that version for the entire cycle. If something catastrophic happened to the code during the cycle (major security fix, etc) |
| 14:47.59 | CosmicPenguin | Then we would upgrade and evaluate the impact |
| 14:48.23 | CosmicPenguin | With something like the kernel - immediately prior to release, we would update to the latest maintainence release |
| 14:48.35 | CosmicPenguin | Which should be low impact as far as our code is concerned |
| 14:49.03 | CosmicPenguin | I think the key is to maintain a strict release schedule - that way, you will always be compelled to update the version |
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| 14:59.35 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hmm |
| 15:01.09 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: what about pushing patches back to the maintainer? if you are 2 or 3 versions behind current, is the maintanier really gonna want to mess with them? |
| 15:01.30 | CP|Laptop | well, thats the problem with being a big company |
| 15:02.18 | CP|Laptop | on one hand, you need to be update to date |
| 15:02.22 | CP|Laptop | but on the other, you need to be stable |
| 15:03.37 | chouimat | hi CP|Laptop CosmicPenguin prpplague |
| 15:04.07 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: yea, so the question is, how do you justify to your boss to essientila re-do a working release? i.e."well, the product is working, its stable, the customers are happy, why should we spend time making a new release to potientially introduce bugs and problems?" |
| 15:04.12 | prpplague | chouimat: lo |
| 15:04.39 | CP|Laptop | prpplague: our customers do that for us, really |
| 15:04.55 | CP|Laptop | prpplague: "That release is 13 months old - don't you have anything newer?" |
| 15:05.07 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: ahh |
| 15:05.21 | CP|Laptop | the important thing is to have both the new and old stuff available |
| 15:05.50 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: see thats where we differ, 98% customers have no clue about whats running on the device, they just want to turn it on and have it work properly |
| 15:06.07 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: of our customers that is |
| 15:06.19 | CP|Laptop | but you deal with more "end customers" then we do |
| 15:06.30 | Crofton | anyone know anything about usbmon and debugfs? |
| 15:06.41 | CP|Laptop | our customers are making their own platforms, so they are accutely aware of whats happening on the OS front |
| 15:06.42 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: yea, thats kinda what i meant about the different environs |
| 15:06.51 | CP|Laptop | or at least, the good ones are |
| 15:06.55 | prpplague | hehe |
| 15:07.08 | CP|Laptop | Wyse is very clueful, for example |
| 15:07.42 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: i'm normally challenged with the balancing of 1) doing new releases for old products and 2) developing initial release for new products |
| 15:08.11 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: we have code for some products thats only had minor tweaks for the last 4 years |
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| 15:11.46 | CP|Laptop | man - I shouldn't do bugzilla updates early in the morning |
| 15:12.21 | chouimat | wow now slashdot is even worse ... they said palm released a linux based pda but it run palmos 5.4 .... |
| 15:15.21 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: i hate it when friends and relatives(in-laws are the worst) ask me to help resurrect their winblows pc's |
| 15:16.11 | prpplague | lordy its hot today, its sucking the motivation right out of me |
| 15:16.37 | prpplague | http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/airportprofile/BGI |
| 15:19.37 | CP|Laptop | prpplague: I refuse to do Windows stuff |
| 15:19.48 | CP|Laptop | prpplague: I honestly tell them, I have no idea what to do |
| 15:20.08 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: hehe, yea, most of the time i do as well |
| 15:21.07 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: i'm doing one now though because they were interested in trying linux, so i'm recoving some files from their ntfs partition and loading rhat on it for them |
| 15:21.28 | CP|Laptop | ugh - thats probably worse |
| 15:21.35 | CP|Laptop | at least with windows, you can blame microsoft |
| 15:21.56 | CP|Laptop | windows, you have no one to blame but yourself |
| 15:22.47 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: hehe, why is that? |
| 15:24.53 | CP|Laptop | s/windows/linux/ |
| 15:26.43 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: still i figured i'd let them try it for a week |
| 15:26.54 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: seeing how they can't find their winblows cd's |
| 15:27.05 | CP|Laptop | mmm... drink coasters |
| 15:27.14 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: and all they do is exel files and mp3's |
| 15:35.07 | CP|Laptop | I should blow up in this meeting and walk out triumphantly |
| 15:35.11 | CP|Laptop | but I need my job |
| 15:51.14 | Crofton | prpplague, I see the FCC thinks VOIP phones should work better with 911 |
| 15:51.43 | CP|Laptop | 911 is good, mkay? |
| 15:53.41 | Crofton | yes, but it must be a royal pain for VOIP guys |
| 15:53.55 | Crofton | and prpplague has a US number and a Barbados address right? |
| 15:53.58 | CP|Laptop | Welcome to the real world, fellas... :) |
| 15:54.06 | Crofton | heh |
| 15:54.38 | Crofton | The FCC can be pretty out of touch |
| 16:23.58 | CosmicPenguin | GvzEvxre: you around? |
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| 17:01.06 | T0mW | jacques: http://www.lxmsuite.com/ |
| 17:07.44 | prpplague | Crofton: yea, so what freaking good would 911 do me |
| 17:08.04 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: problems at the meeting? |
| 17:08.20 | kergoth | prpplague: *finally* moving. movers picked up my stuff yesterday :D |
| 17:08.34 | prpplague | kergoth: lovely |
| 17:08.38 | prpplague | kergoth: when ya coming to visit? |
| 17:09.11 | T0mW | kergoth found a job? |
| 17:09.52 | prpplague | T0mW: he's got a full time job at the local boxing gym as a punching bag, hehe |
| 17:09.59 | T0mW | heh |
| 17:10.22 | T0mW | woman's punching bag |
| 17:10.37 | chouimat | prpplague: wow ... I though I would have applied to be a QA tester at the local whorehouse |
| 17:11.13 | T0mW | moans convincingly: 80%, wiggles well: 40% |
| 17:11.25 | chouimat | T0mW: hehe |
| 17:11.59 | prpplague | T0mW: "works well one on one, but still needs improvement in team efforts" |
| 17:12.05 | T0mW | heh |
| 17:12.09 | T0mW | :P |
| 17:12.44 | T0mW | "cadaver shows more emotion" |
| 17:17.15 | CosmicPenguin | Now, that was funny |
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| 17:19.38 | CosmicPenguin | See, now this is what I'm saying |
| 17:20.38 | CosmicPenguin | Groklaw had two possible responses to the Devorak article - 1) say, yes, you frickin DoSin' idiots, stop it right now, or 2) publicly mock him, and call him names for even suggesting that some OSS people are zealots |
| 17:20.53 | CosmicPenguin | Guess which stance they took? |
| 17:21.07 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:21.12 | prpplague | #2 i'm guessing |
| 17:21.23 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: problems at the meeting? |
| 17:21.33 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: nah - just that people are idiots |
| 17:21.53 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: for some reason, we're being held to the standard of supporting all 3 million lines of LInux code |
| 17:22.09 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: in bed with the covers up to my noise - "i see stupid people......" |
| 17:22.11 | CosmicPenguin | and we are publicly and loudly slapped for sugggesting that two people can't possibly handle all that |
| 17:22.27 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:22.59 | CosmicPenguin | For example, if you have 32 boxes trying to NFS mount a drive on a server at the same time, and once every two weeks, one of the mounts fails, do you... |
| 17:23.24 | CosmicPenguin | a) realize that you have an infrastructure problem, and try to fix it, or b) claim that there is a serious software issue, and mark the bug as a blocker and assign it to the Linux team? |
| 17:24.15 | chouimat | CosmicPenguin: ouch |
| 17:24.28 | prpplague | hehe, well it could be on the other end like at abcsinc |
| 17:24.35 | CosmicPenguin | And b1) Loudly complain when somebody comments that nobody in the LInux team hacks on the networking subsystem *and* the code has been the same for the last six months *and* the problems only emerged when they added more bozen |
| 17:24.53 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: where 25% of the time the workstation does function properly and they think thats ok to ship |
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| 17:29.28 | CosmicPenguin | I would love to leave in a blaze of glory, but I think I would regret it later |
| 17:30.05 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea, live and learn for awhile d00d |
| 17:30.27 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: as long as it doesn't give you uclers or keep you up at night |
| 17:30.54 | CosmicPenguin | Well, eventually something is going to give |
| 17:31.06 | CosmicPenguin | Either things change, or they dump LInux |
| 17:31.21 | CosmicPenguin | And the second doesn't seem like a intellgent business decision |
| 17:34.09 | prpplague | thats the last time i drink a lucozade, that think got my heart racing and my blood pressure really high |
| 17:34.40 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i've really got to get cookin on this fb |
| 17:36.22 | CosmicPenguin | mm... kfb |
| 17:37.37 | CosmicPenguin | Ok - second anniversary is on Friday |
| 17:37.43 | prpplague | i really am disappointed in this lineo bsp for the sharp lh79520 |
| 17:37.48 | CosmicPenguin | Our tradition is to give the "traditional" gifts to each other |
| 17:37.52 | CosmicPenguin | This year, its cotton |
| 17:37.54 | CosmicPenguin | Any suggestions? |
| 17:38.05 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe, mine is next wed. |
| 17:38.55 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: last year it was paper, so I gave her tickets to a Circu De Soeli show |
| 17:38.56 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe, matching coffins and burrial plots? |
| 17:39.10 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: what does cotton have to do with that? |
| 17:39.22 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:39.38 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: cotton lined coffins |
| 17:40.04 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe, i still haven't figured out what i'm gonna do either |
| 17:41.42 | CosmicPenguin | Lets see -we're going to Vegas in a few weeks |
| 17:41.45 | CosmicPenguin | What can we do for that? |
| 17:59.50 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: ok - I'm going to give her a bag of cotton balls |
| 18:01.21 | CosmicPenguin | With a gift certificate to a spa |
| 18:01.30 | CosmicPenguin | maybye - the website is acting flaky |
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| 18:27.22 | kergoth | prpplague: you see zecke's bitbake/oe changes? memory usage is down from hundreds of megs to like 40 or something |
| 18:28.31 | CosmicPenguin | I never broke 14 on the opteron |
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| 19:22.20 | cdm | 14 during a build? |
| 19:27.01 | CosmicPenguin | yeah - crazy, huh? |
| 19:27.15 | CosmicPenguin | Most of the time, during builds, the compiler was a bigger memory user |
| 19:27.21 | kergoth | hey cdm |
| 19:29.53 | *** join/#elinux GPSFan (~Ken@65.121.49.208) |
| 19:29.59 | cdm | hey kergoth - how's life man? Get shit figured out? |
| 19:32.21 | Crofton | turn the computer off kergoth or you will never get out of there |
| 19:40.08 | kergoth | Crofton: heh, just did some dishes and made myself lunch. plenty of work yet to do |
| 19:40.32 | kergoth | cdm: heh, not really. been down here depressed and in a rut. _finally_ got the movers to get my shit yesterday, so i'm finally moving back to MN. once i'm there, will see |
| 19:53.51 | cdm | ahhh..I thought you had moved already. |
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| 20:13.56 | prpplague | kergoth: oh cool, no i had not seen it |
| 20:14.07 | prpplague | kergoth: that was a major reason i've been avoiding OE these days |
| 20:14.27 | prpplague | kergoth: i'd already made plans to go with buildroot though for the next 2 BSP's |
| 20:15.05 | prpplague | TimRiker: did you see the url i sent you about the sd/mmc i/o? |
| 20:15.55 | TimRiker | prpplague: I think so. don't recall if I followed it or not. |
| 20:16.38 | prpplague | TimRiker: http://kiel.kool.dk/ |
| 20:16.52 | prpplague | TimRiker: have a look, basically identical to what i've been testing |
| 20:24.22 | TimRiker | nice |
| 20:25.39 | prpplague | TimRiker: should be fairly easy to implement on the zipit if we can find some spare gpio's |
| 20:25.48 | TimRiker | that's a big if. |
| 20:26.38 | TimRiker | I'm chroot'ed to debian-unstable-arm on my zipit. Any thoughts on an graphical app that handles 4bit grayscale fb? |
| 20:26.52 | TimRiker | I can't seem to find an X server that does it. |
| 20:27.01 | TimRiker | (meaning a pre-compiled one...) |
| 20:28.40 | TimRiker | fbgrab says: Error: Not enough memory or data |
| 20:38.53 | prpplague | TimRiker: let me look, i think i might have a kdrive precompiled for 4-bit |
| 20:41.46 | prpplague | TimRiker: sorry, looks like i cleaned out my test area |
| 21:00.14 | jacques | exactly how many free GPIOs does one need to add a SD interface? I'm reading the http://kiel.kool.dk/ and can't tell for sure - 3? 4? |
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| 21:07.34 | jacques | d`oh, answer is at very end of the article |
| 21:23.59 | prpplague | jacques: implementing a soft-spi is fairly simple in most causes |
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| 21:32.53 | *** mode/#elinux [+v mallum] by ChanServ |
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| 21:44.40 | *** join/#elinux fishhead (~gddsf@24.3.15.166) |
| 21:44.41 | fishhead | http://www.commsdesign.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=163105430 |
| 21:44.42 | fishhead | http://www.commsdesign.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=163105430 |
| 21:47.35 | fishhead | http://www.xecom.com/home.htm |
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