irclog2html for #elinux on 20050217

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02:03.32fishheadhttp://www.m-systems.com/content/Developer/Calc.asp <--- life of their flash based product in years calculator, pretty damn cool
02:06.29fishheadriker
02:06.31fishheadcheck out that url sometime
02:06.41fishheadyou can tell it
02:06.46fishheadthis disk on chip product : blah
02:06.51fishhead10 meg file
02:06.55fishheadwritten 10 times a day
02:07.00fishheadand it will tell you how many yrs it will last
02:09.25fishheadlike i said 10 meg file I think
02:09.30fishheadwritten 1000 times a day
02:09.34fishheadthe product would last 53 yrs
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02:15.28TimRikerwriting one file is easy. try updating a few hundred thousand inodes.
02:16.26fishheadwell obviously you won't want to use a normal fs on a flash drive
02:19.01Russyaffs!
02:19.20Russfishhead: tell that to the boneheads that decided on cf for or product
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02:25.32*** topic/#elinux is Embedded Linux || http://eLinux.org/ || cross compile, uClibc, busybox, tinylogin, handhelds, post-sale linux installs ;-), etc. || free embedded linux training at http://free-electrons.com/news/news.2004-09-28/en || see prpplague about custom holly-gates jtag dongles
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02:25.48fishheadcf is ok
02:26.32fishheadah i see
02:27.01Russno its not
02:27.06Russit totally sucks
02:28.11fishheadwhy
02:29.01Russbecause of the flash translation layer
02:29.11Russyou have absolutely no control and no garuntees
02:29.19fishheadah
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02:30.23Russso then since it looks like a block device, you need to run a journaling filesystem on top of it
02:30.40Russso you are running a journalling filesystem on top of a journaled block device
02:33.22Russhttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/1999-November/000165.html
02:33.32Russworse yet, the FTL sometimes fails
02:34.17fishheadwould disk on chip had worked better ?
02:34.26Russdepends on what type
02:34.38Russand what you are running on it
02:35.04Russdoc can provide you with raw nand flash which you can run yaffs on, which I would trust
02:35.29Russthe other problem is that we have a purge requirement
02:35.38Russwe have a requirement to delete sensitive data
02:35.46Russwith a FTL, that is impossible
02:36.24fishheadi see
02:36.39Russthe only way to get around it is through an encryption layer and storing they key somewhere besides the CF
02:37.17prpplagueRuss: hey bud
02:37.21Russhey prpplague
02:37.22prpplagueRuss: how goes it?
02:37.27Russpretty good
02:37.30Russbusy day at work
02:37.33prpplagueRuss: don't see ya around too oftern these day
02:38.26Russfishhead: having raw access to the flash (nor or nand) gives you predictable behavior
02:39.18Russfishhead: (btw, bob canup doesn't know what he is talking about)
02:41.35fishheadwho is that
02:41.40fishheadbob canup
02:41.47Russone of the people talking in that link I sent
02:42.19fishheadoh I see now
03:34.16fishheadruss
03:34.18fishheadyou in usa ?
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06:35.50*** topic/#elinux is Embedded Linux || http://eLinux.org/ || cross compile, uClibc, busybox, tinylogin, handhelds, post-sale linux installs ;-), etc. || free embedded linux training at http://free-electrons.com/news/news.2004-09-28/en || see prpplague about custom holly-gates jtag dongles
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08:39.36Russfishhead: ya
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15:37.26CosmicPenguinMorning folks
15:41.15prpplague^2CosmicPenguin: yo! crack baby
15:43.26CosmicPenguinyo
15:48.21CosmicPenguinSo somebody tell me, can SIP do DTMF at all, or is it just a peer to peer thing?
15:48.36CosmicPenguinBecause every app I see has no problems registering with my server, but none of them can do anthing with it
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16:11.46T0mWCosmicPenguin: let me guess DTMF does not mean: Dual Tone Modulated Frequency ?
16:12.18T0mWCosmicPenguin: as in: Touch-tone ?
16:13.17anderseeDanish Tele Marketing Functions?
16:13.42T0mW:) only if they wear leather!
16:14.03TimRiker~wtf dtmf
16:14.25TimRiker~wtf imnsho
16:16.53T0mWandersee: oh, you said "Functions" and I read it as "Females"
16:19.05anderseeT0mW: heh, I was thinking that contemplating a breakfast danish in leather was a bit too avant-guard for my tastes
16:21.54T0mWandersee: at this point, I am totally code-shot, any thought that does not have a: for, while or if in it is good.
16:22.31T0mW"just one more week, and it'll be done".  :P
16:24.25T0mWnow, there is a news headling: Finished with your PC? Pulverize it
16:24.37T0mWs/headling/headline/
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17:03.26CosmicPenguinsigh
17:06.05CosmicPenguinThis VoIP stuff is tough
17:21.16T0mW#!$@ bash crap
17:21.37prpplague^2hehe
17:21.45prpplague^2T0mW: what kind of problem you having?
17:21.47CosmicPenguin"Ahh, so you have come at last, bash..."
17:21.53T0mWwhy can't I just make perl statements inside a makefile, at least perl makes sense.
17:22.08T0mWcryptic ass'ed shit
17:22.12CosmicPenguinT0mW: nothing stoping you from doing a perl -e, is there?
17:22.26T0mWhmmm
17:22.32T0mWdoh
17:22.42T0mWCosmicPenguin: thanks
17:22.52CosmicPenguinT0mW: no problem - thats what I do
17:23.08T0mWI wonder, can I do a block perl code that way?
17:23.13CosmicPenguinI get about two statments into sed, and I say, "screw this sh*t"
17:23.31T0mWlike, perl -e 'do { blah ; blah ; blah }' ?
17:23.44CosmicPenguinThat, I don't know
17:23.50CosmicPenguinkergoth would probably know
17:23.53T0mWkergoth: ping
17:24.42T0mWin a makefile can I do something like: perl -e 'do { blah ; blah ; blah }' ?  IOW, excute a series of statements in perl within a do block?
17:25.13anderseeT0mW: did I just see the words "at least perl makes sense" from you?
17:25.48T0mWooo
17:25.52T0mWI can!
17:26.01anderseeI can write perl, but I don't think I heard anybody claim it made sense before.
17:26.04T0mWandersee: it does, somehow I like perl
17:27.05T0mWandersee: all those years of crunching textual data with C programs pales in comparision to what I can accomplish in perl. I used to write my little "do this" utils in C, now I just do it in perl.
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17:32.58kergothT0mW: heh, perl isnt whitespace sensitive, in general, whether in a .pl or in a -e
17:33.35T0mWgah! you still run into the same char escapement problems: e.g. \$ not $
17:33.44kergoth?
17:34.01T0mWwait one
17:34.14kergoth'' isnt expanded by the shell. its passed to perl verbatim.
17:34.22kergoth"" is, and as such, needs appropriate escapes
17:34.59T0mW#!/usr/bin/perl
17:34.59T0mW<PROTECTED>
17:34.59T0mW<PROTECTED>
17:34.59T0mW<PROTECTED>
17:34.59T0mW<PROTECTED>
17:35.00T0mW<PROTECTED>
17:35.02T0mW<PROTECTED>
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17:35.04T0mW<PROTECTED>
17:35.22T0mWthat works in perl, what I hoped that I could do is take it and simply put '\' after each line.
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17:36.09cdmmorning.
17:36.10T0mWhowever, bash will take the perl -e <my code> and interpret the contents of it before it passes the block to perl
17:36.21kergothonce again, the shell doesnt do shit if you're using '' quoting.
17:36.26kergothif you're using "" quoting, then yes, it does
17:36.34T0mWkergoth: ok
17:36.50kergothso perl -e '\
17:36.53kergoth[rest of your code
17:36.53kergoth]
17:36.55kergoth'
17:36.58kergothnot ""
17:37.00kergothand it should work fine.
17:53.24T0mWkergoth: help, I seem to be missing a really basic concept here.  When you have the time I'd like you to look at my one liner and the makefile error?
17:53.48kergothk
17:53.53T0mWI give it:
17:53.56T0mW<PROTECTED>
17:54.03T0mWthat is the line from makefile
17:54.20T0mW[tom@sparebox RPMS]$ make build-config-hamlin-rpm
17:54.20T0mWperl -e '[ my @dirs = qw / this works /; foreach my ubdir (@dirs) { print "ubdir\n" } ]'
17:54.20T0mWsyntax error at -e line 1, near "qw / this works /;"
17:54.20T0mWMissing $ on loop variable at -e line 1.
17:54.20T0mWmake: *** [build-config-hamlin-rpm] Error 255
17:54.28kergotheh, whats with the []?
17:54.44kergoth~$ perl -e 'my @dirs = qw / this works /; foreach my $subdir (@dirs) { print "$subdir\n" }'
17:54.47kergoththis
17:54.48T0mWshrug, either way: with / without same error
17:54.49kergothworks
17:54.52kergoth~$
17:54.53ibothmm... $ is a dollar sign
17:55.08kergothworks just fine for me if i dont have the [].
17:55.18T0mWwhat is the ~$ ?
17:55.32kergoththats me pasting my shell output
17:55.41T0mWok,
17:55.59kergothitll behave identically in a makefile. a shell is a shell, whether spawned by me or make.
17:56.26T0mWyeah, but I get the $ being lost when I put the exact statement into a makefile
17:56.50kergothoh, we forgot about gmake expansions.
17:56.52pb_are you escaping the $?
17:56.54T0mWbuild-config-hamlin-rpm:
17:56.54T0mW<PROTECTED>
17:56.55kergothread the gnu make manual
17:56.56kergothyou want $$
17:56.58pb_you'll need to write $$
17:57.00pb_right
17:57.15T0mWkergoth: is that the only critera? escape the $$
17:57.19kergothyes
17:57.23pb_I'm a bit surprised that make doesn't complain about $subdir not being a valid expansion, though
17:57.40kergoththat is kinda strange
17:57.45T0mWkergoth: aha! works
17:58.21T0mWkergoth: thank you thank you! that means I can get away from that cryptic bash stuff in my makefile and end up with something that not only works, but is readable!
17:58.27kergothhehe
17:58.49kergothbasic principles. i always recommend starting simple. if you cant get the perl working in make, try it at a prompt.  isolate the point of failure
17:58.53T0mWand I don't have to spend a half hour trying to remember if it is: $foo, $(foo) or ${foo}
17:59.20T0mWor it could be just plain foo
18:00.01T0mWforeach foo in "cryptic shit" ; do echo "$$foo" ; done
18:00.26T0mWpb_: thank you
18:14.35prpplague^2hmm, anyone good at arm assembly?
18:15.40MonMothadefine "good"
18:16.13prpplague^2MonMotha: hehe
18:16.31prpplague^2MonMotha: what is this command LDMIA ?
18:17.05MonMothathat I don't know off the top of my head.  Is it not on the quick reference sheet at arm.com?
18:17.11prpplague^2kergoth: yea yea i have it in hand
18:17.21prpplague^2kergoth: can't seem to make heads or tails of this one
18:17.30kergotharent ldm/stm the multiple register load/store instructions?
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18:17.44prpplague^2kergoth: right so whats the IA?
18:17.50prpplague^2Sieve: hey crack whore
18:17.55kergothdont recall, would have to look it up
18:17.56Crofton_omaphttp://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:haxxWpV9UY8J:www.ee.ic.ac.uk/pcheung/teaching/ee2_computing/Lecture_7.pdf+ldmia&hl=en
18:18.00SieveI fel so loves
18:18.04MonMothaload multiple, increment after
18:18.04Sievefeel*
18:18.19prpplague^2MonMotha: where did you see the IA spec?
18:18.29prpplague^2Sieve: how goes it dude? long time no chat
18:18.40Sievessdd
18:18.47MonMothaprpplague: last page of the ARM reference sheet, under addressing mode 4
18:19.02kergothsieve.. i know that name.. you worked at the same place dave did, right?
18:19.23Sieveshhhhhhhhhhhhh
18:19.32SieveI deny it
18:19.38prpplague^2kergoth: now now, lets not be rude
18:19.40prpplague^2kergoth: hehe
18:19.47kergothbut but.. i like being rude
18:20.10Sieveyup.. I worked with Dave
18:20.19Sievein hell
18:20.36CosmicPenguinHoly crap - where the hell have you been?
18:20.54prpplague^2MonMotha: why the hell isn't it in the index properly? hehe
18:21.01SieveI'm still trying to figure that one out
18:22.15MonMothaprpplague: dunno
18:22.59MonMothaprpplague: my circuits "textbook" was an in-house publication.  The index was funny.  It had everything in it
18:23.28MonMotharight down to things like "j" (referencing the firs tpage in the book the imaginary constant was used) and "Peter's power" (referencing some example problem on AC power)
18:24.39CosmicPenguinStarting tommorrow, no more scox
18:24.48Crofton_omapfor real?
18:25.04MonMothathey'll be scoxe
18:25.08CosmicPenguinThey're in danger of delisting, so they are adding a 'e' to the end
18:25.15Crofton_omapah
18:25.18Crofton_omapI heard that
18:25.22CosmicPenguinPronounced "Skocksee"
18:27.13MonMothahttp://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=139768&cid=11700710   <---- hilarious
18:27.25MonMothabbl
18:27.57Crofton_omapdamn, something funny in a /. comment
18:28.45CosmicPenguinSomebody must have copied it from somewhere else then
18:29.18Crofton_omaptrue
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20:29.57CosmicPenguinDamn, this has been the week from hell
20:45.41prpplague^2CosmicPenguin: yea, seems that way
20:46.35CosmicPenguinGod must be pissed at the Grammy results or something
20:46.50kergothagreed
20:50.32chouimatwhat the world will end because of that ... God must like bullshit music then
20:51.01CosmicPenguinI would have said he was an Eagles fan, but then that would have made for a horrible week last week
20:51.11CosmicPenguinMost likely, he angry about the whole NHL thing
20:51.16anderseechouimat: God must love terrible artists, because he made so many of them
20:52.30chouimatandersee: I watched "musique plus" (quebec muchmusic/mtv equivalent) and I was wondering why so much crap where out ... I saw about 1000000000000000000000 clone of Hilray Duff and the like
20:54.29anderseechouimat: it may suck, but at least it is expensive
20:54.54chouimat?
20:55.44CosmicPenguinhehe
20:55.52CosmicPenguinOur quality is low, but at least we don't get credit
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