| 00:11.15 | *** join/#elinux nictuku (nictuku@nictuku.user) |
| 00:44.49 | *** join/#elinux prpplague (~billybob@adsl-69-154-79-198.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 00:46.01 | prpplague | ho ho ho |
| 00:46.49 | T0mW | who wouldn't go? (not prpplague, he is outa' here) |
| 00:47.09 | prpplague | T0mW: ? |
| 00:47.14 | T0mW | heh |
| 00:47.20 | T0mW | to the Bahamas |
| 00:47.25 | prpplague | ahh |
| 00:47.32 | prpplague | who's going to the bahamas? |
| 00:47.38 | T0mW | aren't you? |
| 00:47.42 | prpplague | barbados |
| 00:47.45 | T0mW | ah |
| 00:47.52 | prpplague | different area |
| 00:47.56 | prpplague | barbados is in the west indies |
| 00:48.02 | T0mW | I knew it was in the Bermuda Triangle |
| 00:48.17 | prpplague | i.e. islands south of puerta rico |
| 00:48.28 | T0mW | I liked Puerto Rico |
| 00:48.52 | T0mW | too bad I saw it after a rock concert |
| 00:49.11 | T0mW | well, it may have been called a rock festival |
| 00:49.23 | prpplague | bahamas are north of puerta rico |
| 00:49.41 | T0mW | does it snow there? |
| 00:49.44 | T0mW | heh |
| 00:49.52 | prpplague | hehe nope |
| 00:49.58 | T0mW | :) |
| 00:50.20 | T0mW | but the Hurricanes blow like H#LL though |
| 00:51.14 | T0mW | oooh! They have cable tv there? |
| 00:51.29 | prpplague | hehe, no no cable, but lots of internet |
| 00:51.34 | prpplague | mostly satelite tv |
| 00:51.48 | T0mW | yeah, and lots of marijuana in the jungle |
| 00:52.12 | prpplague | hehe, yea they arrest 200+ ppl at a bar last week |
| 00:53.06 | T0mW | oh, wait, that is Jamica that has that stuff in the jungle |
| 00:54.20 | prpplague | http://www.nationnews.com/StoryView.cfm?Record=56309&Section=Local&Current=2004%2D12%2D21%2000%3A00%3A00 |
| 00:54.35 | T0mW | yeah, they have to keep it illegal, otherwise the natives will get the munchies and eat all the food. Leaving nothing for the tourists. |
| 00:55.57 | T0mW | whew! Parrrrtay! |
| 01:00.16 | T0mW | prpplague: well, considering that you could always sneak off by yourself to the beach and do a little girl-watching, I guess you could dispense with cable tv? |
| 01:02.18 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:03.22 | T0mW | no, but you wouldn't do that, your wife is so beautiful, and loving, that, you just cannot stand to look at other women. |
| 01:03.24 | T0mW | heh |
| 01:03.44 | prpplague | hehe, looking is ok, touching is a different story |
| 01:03.56 | prpplague | hehe, your right |
| 01:04.12 | prpplague | or she'd be wearing my nuts as ear rings |
| 01:04.36 | T0mW | I have a friend who claims that when he goes to the beach that his wife helps spot the good looking ones for him |
| 01:04.41 | T0mW | yeah, right |
| 01:05.18 | prpplague | hehe, donna does that in the mall sometimes |
| 01:06.39 | T0mW | good, means she is either comfortable that you belong to her, or she is sadistic |
| 01:07.08 | kergoth | or both |
| 01:07.12 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:07.46 | T0mW | kinky |
| 01:08.47 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:09.00 | prpplague | what i'm gonna have to get used to |
| 01:09.09 | prpplague | is there are basically 3 names on the island |
| 01:09.11 | T0mW | I get a phone call and the caller id says "POLLING REAS", did I answer it? |
| 01:09.21 | prpplague | everyone is either a King, Brown, or Hinds |
| 01:09.54 | T0mW | so an Anders is going to stick out as a migrant? |
| 01:10.02 | prpplague | oh yea |
| 01:10.09 | T0mW | gonna change your name? |
| 01:10.13 | prpplague | the last anders in barbados was back in 1877 |
| 01:10.25 | T0mW | and they hung him, right? |
| 01:10.45 | prpplague | hehe, no he died of malaria |
| 01:10.58 | T0mW | hmmmm |
| 01:11.13 | T0mW | make sure you get all your shots before you leave |
| 01:11.38 | T0mW | but, then, sooner or later you'll have to drink the water and eat the Crabs |
| 01:12.01 | T0mW | ah, that is what you're going to miss: cheap steaks |
| 01:12.33 | T0mW | $1.89/gal fuel |
| 01:12.43 | T0mW | pork rinds |
| 01:13.00 | T0mW | corn on the cod |
| 01:13.03 | T0mW | corn on the cob |
| 01:13.30 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe, water is safe there |
| 01:13.49 | T0mW | how old are you? |
| 01:13.49 | prpplague | T0mW: as far as shots, i've had more shots that i can count when i went somalia |
| 01:13.55 | prpplague | 34 |
| 01:14.00 | T0mW | uhoh |
| 01:14.17 | T0mW | I don't if, when I was 34, I could live in a land of temptation. |
| 01:14.50 | T0mW | ok, I get off that topic |
| 01:15.05 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:15.21 | T0mW | she's prolly checking in on the irc from time to time |
| 01:15.55 | T0mW | well, you are going to miss tinkering with those boards. |
| 01:16.06 | prpplague | hehe, naw will still tinker |
| 01:16.12 | T0mW | so, what is it that they offered you? a software job? |
| 01:16.22 | T0mW | writing code? |
| 01:16.49 | prpplague | basically a 1/3 IT manager, 1/3 Open Source advocate, 1/3 teacher |
| 01:17.13 | T0mW | hm, that sounds ... interesting |
| 01:17.42 | T0mW | basically, they want to suck your brain dry |
| 01:18.06 | prpplague | i have to manage about 10 ppl for Barbados Shipping and Trading, and server as the Director of Technology Development for barbados |
| 01:18.38 | T0mW | yup, that's what I thought, you are going to die, be ressurected in Barbados as a Manager |
| 01:18.41 | prpplague | will have to teach a couple classes at the local uni |
| 01:18.51 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:18.59 | T0mW | my son, that is Purgatory |
| 01:19.00 | Soopaman | that sounds like a sweet job |
| 01:19.13 | T0mW | not for a coder it ain't |
| 01:19.36 | Soopaman | well if you have some sort of social skills |
| 01:19.39 | Soopaman | it would be a money job |
| 01:19.43 | prpplague | actually its gonna be nice, since i'll have a nice budget for the school |
| 01:19.49 | T0mW | "don't feed the programmers" |
| 01:19.52 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:20.06 | Soopaman | prpplague, then you could hire me :P |
| 01:20.10 | T0mW | we have the social skills of a gnat, and they bite |
| 01:20.26 | prpplague | Soopaman: gotta be married to bajan or have a work permit |
| 01:20.35 | T0mW | hmm |
| 01:21.02 | T0mW | going to get citizenship? |
| 01:21.12 | T0mW | like maybe a dual |
| 01:21.13 | prpplague | T0mW: where have you been old man? |
| 01:21.17 | T0mW | sleeping |
| 01:21.24 | T0mW | why |
| 01:21.26 | prpplague | T0mW: i got my bajan passport over a year ago |
| 01:21.33 | T0mW | yeah, .. |
| 01:21.36 | Soopaman | prpplague, if it takes me marrying a beautiful bajan who can cook, i think i can possibly make that sacrifice |
| 01:21.43 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:21.50 | T0mW | ok, so you already got that then, ok |
| 01:21.55 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe yep |
| 01:22.05 | prpplague | T0mW: been plannig for a loooooooong time |
| 01:22.08 | T0mW | Soopaman: can cook and snuggles well |
| 01:22.23 | prpplague | oh and those bajans can dance |
| 01:22.28 | T0mW | how tall is she? |
| 01:23.08 | prpplague | 5'5" |
| 01:23.17 | T0mW | I'm 5'10, I don't like 'em over 5'6 |
| 01:23.25 | prpplague | most of the bajan women very short |
| 01:23.54 | T0mW | prpplague: 'cause the tall ones cannot find husbands? |
| 01:24.00 | T0mW | heh |
| 01:24.05 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:24.19 | T0mW | ratio of men to women was what? |
| 01:24.22 | prpplague | http://justbajan.com/feature/2004/flames/index.htm |
| 01:24.46 | prpplague | T0mW: like about 60% women 40% menu |
| 01:24.47 | prpplague | menu |
| 01:24.49 | prpplague | argh |
| 01:24.51 | prpplague | men |
| 01:24.52 | prpplague | ls |
| 01:24.54 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:24.58 | T0mW | that is like, nice eye-candy |
| 01:25.17 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:25.25 | T0mW | prpplague: don't get too excited Dave, the plane doesn't leave for a few weeks |
| 01:25.32 | prpplague | but down there the men treat their women like shit |
| 01:25.50 | prpplague | T0mW: so like southern gentlemen go over big down there |
| 01:25.57 | T0mW | oh God, no wonder your wife fell in love with an American |
| 01:26.07 | prpplague | no, a Texan |
| 01:26.17 | T0mW | American women train their boys well |
| 01:26.54 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:26.54 | prpplague | http://justbajan.com/feature/2004/flames_pre/index.htm |
| 01:27.10 | T0mW | ha, all Texans do is drink beer, fist fight, eat chili, and ... I can't recall what they do with the cows |
| 01:27.32 | T0mW | something un-natural, IIRC |
| 01:27.48 | T0mW | ROTFLAMAO |
| 01:28.12 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:28.21 | T0mW | oh! |
| 01:28.32 | T0mW | my gawd, they is loverly |
| 01:29.10 | T0mW | prpplague: they give you a good medical plan? |
| 01:29.18 | prpplague | of course those are some of the best , but they are generally that good looking |
| 01:29.25 | prpplague | T0mW: gov owned |
| 01:29.40 | T0mW | good, becuase you're gonna need it to have your eyeballs put back in on a regular basis |
| 01:29.58 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:30.44 | T0mW | I like women of color, especially latinas |
| 01:31.24 | prpplague | T0mW: interesting thing, there is a small country in south american called guayana |
| 01:31.31 | prpplague | T0mW: ever heard of it? |
| 01:31.38 | T0mW | yeah |
| 01:31.58 | T0mW | british guayana, at one time |
| 01:32.28 | T0mW | IIRC, it is east coast, south of brazil? |
| 01:32.29 | prpplague | yea |
| 01:32.32 | prpplague | yea |
| 01:32.49 | prpplague | they are kinda like a sister country to barbados |
| 01:33.04 | prpplague | you get these incredible looking latinos that speak english |
| 01:33.11 | prpplague | kings english |
| 01:33.12 | T0mW | I'm too old for that scene, I'd get a heart attack lusting after those women |
| 01:33.13 | prpplague | its wild |
| 01:33.45 | prpplague | T0mW: whats funny is that few americans really travel to barbados |
| 01:33.58 | prpplague | T0mW: 90% of the tourists are bristish |
| 01:33.59 | T0mW | heh, prolly I'd be a rich man if I was living there and collecting US Social Security checks |
| 01:34.05 | prpplague | yea |
| 01:34.26 | prpplague | average pay is about $1000USD/month |
| 01:34.33 | T0mW | lots of people do that, keep dual citizenship and go back to the "old country" to retire |
| 01:34.56 | T0mW | ah, I was thinking of moving to Seattle |
| 01:35.04 | T0mW | just to do something different |
| 01:35.19 | T0mW | I've been living here in the east all my life, time for a change |
| 01:35.56 | T0mW | prpplague: wonder if they need dirty old software engineers in guayana? |
| 01:36.12 | T0mW | I know they need them in Hondoras |
| 01:36.35 | T0mW | but, after reading up on Hondoras, I wouldn't want to live there |
| 01:36.48 | T0mW | Honduras |
| 01:36.55 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe, thats the thing you can live in barbados and just commute |
| 01:37.02 | T0mW | yeha, right |
| 01:37.15 | prpplague | T0mW: just 20minutes by plane |
| 01:37.28 | T0mW | get me a little 30ft cruiser and drift into work |
| 01:37.32 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:37.50 | T0mW | hey honey, can I give you a lift home? |
| 01:37.51 | prpplague | yea, plus you can get work on the other 20+ islands within 30 minutes of barbados |
| 01:38.08 | T0mW | that sounds nice, I hope you'll like it there |
| 01:39.11 | prpplague | me too |
| 01:39.19 | prpplague | its almost like winning the lottery |
| 01:39.29 | prpplague | its been my dream for almost a decade |
| 01:40.25 | T0mW | I worked with a guy from Barbados, back on my first job in electronics. he and his wife were here in the US building up their savings to move back home to retire. |
| 01:40.37 | *** join/#elinux noclouds (~mhfan@61.191.207.77) |
| 01:41.15 | prpplague | T0mW: yea |
| 01:41.18 | T0mW | She was a Registered nurse and he was an electronics tech. From Barbados standards, they were making good money. he showed me a picture of their place back home |
| 01:41.27 | prpplague | yea |
| 01:41.43 | T0mW | I'm trying to recall his name now, he taught me a lot about electronics repair |
| 01:41.57 | T0mW | I see his face in my minds' eye |
| 01:42.07 | prpplague | T0mW: donna's father gave us a bunch of beach land when we got married |
| 01:42.13 | prpplague | T0mW: on the east coast |
| 01:42.28 | T0mW | ah, the windward side of the island |
| 01:42.36 | prpplague | yea' |
| 01:42.44 | prpplague | right on Bath Beach |
| 01:43.16 | T0mW | low rent district, becuase you have to replace the house at least once every three years when the tidal surge wipes it off the beach |
| 01:43.21 | prpplague | http://barbadosphotogallery.com/jpgees/beaches/bath.jpg |
| 01:43.29 | prpplague | see the hill in the top left |
| 01:44.06 | T0mW | yup, close to the water. Hey, you a fish eater? |
| 01:44.10 | prpplague | yea |
| 01:44.12 | prpplague | flying fish |
| 01:44.14 | prpplague | http://barbadosphotogallery.com/jpgees/beaches/wbeach3.jpg |
| 01:44.18 | T0mW | not me, makes me sick |
| 01:44.29 | prpplague | thats a pic of sandy lane, where tiger woods got hitched |
| 01:44.35 | T0mW | I need a supply of land meat |
| 01:45.02 | T0mW | whats that, the other side of the peninsula |
| 01:45.47 | T0mW | prpplague: hey Dave, you might not have to mow the lawn, but some one has to rake the sand |
| 01:46.12 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:46.36 | T0mW | I can see it now, Dave gets a new riding rake for Christmas! |
| 01:46.48 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe, http://www.allamandabeach.com/images/photoGallery/A14.jpg |
| 01:46.57 | prpplague | T0mW: the room on the third floor to the left |
| 01:47.33 | T0mW | that is the one thing I like about Puerto Rico was the white beaches and the blue water |
| 01:47.57 | T0mW | and the ocean breezes |
| 01:48.00 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe, that was the hotel room where i first "banged" my wife , hehe |
| 01:48.06 | T0mW | heh |
| 01:48.32 | T0mW | where'd you meet her? |
| 01:48.57 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:49.11 | prpplague | i knew her sister at the place i was working |
| 01:49.14 | T0mW | ah |
| 01:49.17 | T0mW | cool |
| 01:49.48 | T0mW | you had a choice then |
| 01:49.49 | Russ | wow, in ny, they is have the smarts |
| 01:49.52 | Russ | http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/electoral_college/2004_certificates/vote_new_york_03.html |
| 01:50.15 | T0mW | there are no smart people in NY |
| 01:50.43 | prpplague | Russ: hey |
| 01:51.11 | Russ | I was saying that bga production is cheaper than qfp because you can use looser tolerences |
| 01:51.24 | Russ | and less layers |
| 01:51.41 | T0mW | yeah, but the thing that gets me is the parts placement |
| 01:51.59 | T0mW | feels like you are doing it blind |
| 01:52.00 | prpplague | Russ: yea, but i can hand solder a qfp |
| 01:52.05 | T0mW | nod |
| 01:52.17 | Russ | the discussion was about volume cost though |
| 01:52.20 | T0mW | Russ: I would like to do BGA |
| 01:52.30 | Russ | T0mW: just put some silk at the corners |
| 01:52.41 | T0mW | Russ: it is cheaper, very little chance of lead shorts |
| 01:52.42 | Russ | you don't have to be as close when placing a bga as a qfp |
| 01:52.46 | prpplague | Russ: oh , yea, volume prefers bga, but smaller qty;s qfp |
| 01:52.49 | Russ | its just, once you reflow it, thats it |
| 01:52.54 | T0mW | nod |
| 01:52.59 | Russ | there is no rework |
| 01:53.08 | T0mW | nothing like reflow stationn to touch it up |
| 01:53.32 | prpplague | Russ: the costs we were looking at for 3 prototypes was about 5k |
| 01:53.43 | prpplague | Russ: verses qfp of about $600 |
| 01:53.49 | Russ | (btw, for the link, it should be JFK, not JLK) |
| 01:53.51 | T0mW | the people I deal with are producing quantities < 1000 pcs per year |
| 01:53.59 | Russ | what size bga? |
| 01:54.11 | Russ | 1.2mm spacing? |
| 01:54.20 | prpplague | iirc a 12x12 unit |
| 01:54.24 | prpplague | 256 |
| 01:54.26 | prpplague | iric |
| 01:54.33 | prpplague | i'd have to double check |
| 01:54.43 | prpplague | i just saw the numbers for $$ |
| 01:54.47 | T0mW | um, 16x16? |
| 01:55.01 | prpplague | one sec, i'll check |
| 01:55.13 | Russ | T0mW: probably... |
| 01:55.23 | Russ | so that would be tighter than 1.2mm |
| 01:55.33 | T0mW | pico-BGA |
| 01:55.36 | T0mW | heh |
| 01:55.39 | Russ | 1.2mm is great because the pins are so far away |
| 01:55.56 | T0mW | they do those in a nitrogen gas, right? |
| 01:55.58 | Russ | you can usually easily fit two traces between each set of pads or vias on inner/back |
| 01:56.32 | Russ | 16x16 will still take a few layers to escape |
| 01:56.45 | T0mW | yeah, at least 8 |
| 01:56.52 | Russ | you get 3 on each side on layer 1 |
| 01:57.05 | Russ | another 2 on the next layer, and so on |
| 01:57.08 | prpplague | 324 17x17 |
| 01:57.24 | Russ | where do you find an equivilent qfp? |
| 01:57.44 | prpplague | that was the LH7A404 , we dropped down to the LH79520 part |
| 01:57.49 | prpplague | arm9 vs. arm7 |
| 01:57.57 | Russ | I don't think I've seen a qfp with that many pins |
| 01:57.59 | T0mW | that is a small chip |
| 01:58.10 | prpplague | Russ: the lh79520 is only 176 |
| 01:58.13 | T0mW | about 20mm square |
| 01:58.25 | Russ | (you can escape a 16x16 is 6 layers btw) |
| 01:58.47 | Russ | prpplague: so why don't they make a bga with an equivilent pin count? |
| 01:59.06 | T0mW | 6? |
| 01:59.22 | prpplague | Russ: i'm sure they do |
| 01:59.24 | T0mW | 3 + 3 (10) plus another five ? |
| 01:59.29 | prpplague | Russ: we just didn't lool |
| 01:59.31 | prpplague | look |
| 01:59.55 | prpplague | it was just soooo much easier to prototype |
| 02:00.15 | Russ | er, wait |
| 02:00.21 | Russ | 4 layers |
| 02:00.42 | Russ | layer 1 = 6, layer 2 = 4, layer 3 = 4, layer 4 = 2 |
| 02:00.48 | T0mW | ok |
| 02:00.53 | Russ | (so you have some extra room too) |
| 02:01.16 | T0mW | got it, I was thinking only 2 pins per layer beyond the first 6 pins on layer one |
| 02:01.18 | Russ | a 10x10 is great though, because you only need two layers, and you get 100 pins |
| 02:01.33 | T0mW | but how do you solder it down? |
| 02:01.36 | Russ | you can fit two traces between each pair of vias |
| 02:01.42 | Russ | T0mW: pads on the top |
| 02:01.44 | T0mW | wish there was some way to do that myself |
| 02:01.57 | Russ | you need to reflow and be very carefull with the amount of paste |
| 02:02.01 | T0mW | I have a hot-air pencil that I use on QFP |
| 02:02.15 | Russ | at that point, you probably want to use a stencil |
| 02:02.21 | T0mW | yes |
| 02:02.33 | Russ | its not worth making a mistake |
| 02:02.36 | T0mW | which means pay the setup charge at the ass'y house |
| 02:02.47 | Russ | a stencil is only a few hundred |
| 02:03.11 | T0mW | I researched it, aside from finding someone who'll say they'll do your protos, the setup cost was about 3..5K |
| 02:03.21 | T0mW | that is the barrier |
| 02:03.27 | Russ | what I want to find is mass produced stencils that have bga patterns |
| 02:03.28 | T0mW | engineering costs |
| 02:03.37 | Russ | so you can use the stencil for the bga part |
| 02:04.15 | T0mW | Russ: there is a company called Zyphertronics that has a BGA setup, it costs about $12k |
| 02:04.45 | T0mW | They claim to be able to mount the BGAs with their setup and they don't use an oven |
| 02:04.56 | Russ | eh? |
| 02:05.07 | Russ | if you have a 1.2mm bga, you can probably mount and reflow it yourself |
| 02:05.48 | T0mW | yeah, it looks like the setup where you have the "heat cups" where you put the air director on the heating flow element and flood the perimeter of the BGA with hot air |
| 02:06.21 | Russ | depends on how tight your profile is |
| 02:06.29 | T0mW | right |
| 02:06.44 | T0mW | well. mount them first |
| 02:07.00 | Russ | http://pcbexpress.com/stencils/index.php |
| 02:07.04 | T0mW | Russ: that is interesting what you say about the placement tolerance being so loose |
| 02:07.11 | Russ | laser cut setncil, $149.50 |
| 02:07.22 | Russ | T0mW: just look at the pattern of a 1.2mm bga |
| 02:07.35 | Russ | you have a huge amount of spacing compared to a qfp |
| 02:08.28 | Russ | you are talking about enough space to run two 7 mil traces |
| 02:09.28 | T0mW | man, I'll tell you, putting paste on the board in the correct quantity can be a bitch |
| 02:10.33 | T0mW | I have a penumatic setup I use to squirt the paste out those tiny needles, it saves your hand from pressing that solder paste out, but you have to have a steady hand to draw a nice line. |
| 02:11.09 | T0mW | I like that stencil, but I have reservations on how much time you would get to place parts before that thin paste starts to dry? |
| 02:11.27 | Russ | paste doesn't really dry much |
| 02:11.34 | Russ | its the keeping it cool that is the important part |
| 02:11.41 | T0mW | true |
| 02:11.55 | T0mW | I've had paste dry on me when doing a rack of boards |
| 02:12.10 | Russ | Have you tried keeping them fridgerated? |
| 02:12.23 | T0mW | what, before ass'y? |
| 02:12.40 | T0mW | I store my paste in the refridgerator |
| 02:12.53 | Russ | while the board with paste on it is waiting for parts to be placed |
| 02:12.55 | T0mW | but allow it to come up to room temp before use |
| 02:13.31 | T0mW | oh, no, I just paste a small amount of parts, solder them down, then cool the board and repeat |
| 02:13.51 | T0mW | tedious |
| 02:14.03 | T0mW | that stencil thing looks interesting though |
| 02:14.18 | T0mW | Russ: where is their bga stencil? |
| 02:14.32 | Russ | you'd just have to send them a pattern |
| 02:14.55 | Russ | its a custom stencil |
| 02:15.37 | T0mW | I was looking over their pricing, they don't say anything about blind / buried vias :( |
| 02:15.43 | T0mW | those cost |
| 02:16.03 | T0mW | as I found out today while talking with the board house |
| 02:17.06 | Russ | ya |
| 02:17.15 | T0mW | pricing is darned good though, for 6 layer it is about half the cost of 4pcb.com |
| 02:17.27 | Russ | I would stay away from blind/buried vias unless you are making a cell phone or pda |
| 02:17.54 | T0mW | for a 2.6"x2.1", 6 layer, no blinds / buried, it was about $1000 |
| 02:18.04 | T0mW | for up to 18 boards |
| 02:18.22 | Russ | you know about olimex, right? |
| 02:18.25 | T0mW | they panelize and you can save on qty |
| 02:18.27 | T0mW | no |
| 02:18.51 | Russ | they only do single/double side afaik, but its really cheap |
| 02:19.23 | T0mW | no |
| 02:19.31 | T0mW | that's like APCircuits |
| 02:19.36 | Russ | http://www.olimex.com/pcb |
| 02:21.29 | Russ | what design do you have with blind/buried vias |
| 02:21.37 | T0mW | Russ: thanks, I bookmarked them |
| 02:21.57 | T0mW | Russ: it was a 6 layer, card engine type: sodimm-144 |
| 02:22.09 | Russ | card engine type? |
| 02:22.23 | T0mW | I'm rerunning the autorouter using through vias for everything, just to see how it works out. |
| 02:22.58 | T0mW | LH79520, Flash chip + two 16bit SDRAMs on it so far. Just a test to see how tight it would be. |
| 02:23.13 | T0mW | then decide what else I can put on the card. |
| 02:23.33 | Russ | which autorouter? |
| 02:23.37 | T0mW | Eagle |
| 02:23.42 | T0mW | 4.1 |
| 02:23.54 | T0mW | does a fairly nice job |
| 02:24.55 | T0mW | I had some cash in yr/2000 and decided to get a new PCB package, and choked on the price for OrCAD, PcCAD, etc. EagleCAD was pretty reasonable |
| 02:25.03 | Russ | what are you bringing out besides the data/addr for flash+ram? |
| 02:25.09 | T0mW | LCD |
| 02:25.35 | T0mW | flash+ram will be on the card, I'd like to put an MMC socket on the card as well |
| 02:25.56 | T0mW | plus an RTC |
| 02:26.06 | T0mW | Real Time Clock |
| 02:26.18 | T0mW | like one of the Dallas DS1306 |
| 02:26.32 | Russ | you should try routing with a bga with similar pin number |
| 02:26.46 | T0mW | I'm leary about mounting it |
| 02:26.48 | Russ | the board space of the chip and the routing size required is a lot smaller |
| 02:27.36 | T0mW | 425F == 218C, that is pretty hot |
| 02:28.05 | T0mW | the toaster oven, I mean |
| 02:28.52 | T0mW | well, I guess, if you open the door it would cool down fairly quickly... |
| 02:29.26 | T0mW | prpplague: I can see this now, she asks "Tom, what are you baking in the oven?" |
| 02:29.28 | T0mW | heh |
| 02:29.52 | T0mW | Russ: you try doing that toaster oven thing yet? |
| 02:30.24 | Russ | with a few small boards |
| 02:30.32 | T0mW | bga? |
| 02:30.59 | T0mW | I don't like to move the boards once they are pasted. |
| 02:31.48 | T0mW | although, I could use the oven to only mount the BGA, then use the hot-air pencil on the other devices. |
| 02:31.57 | T0mW | hmmm |
| 02:34.04 | T0mW | Russ: have you done layout on a bga board yet? |
| 02:34.29 | T0mW | Russ: aren't the pads essentially vias? |
| 02:44.49 | *** join/#elinux jcrouse (~nobody@vc7-1-203.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 02:45.02 | jcrouse | Yodidly, didily |
| 02:52.19 | jcrouse | I like this Green Day track - Whatshername |
| 02:52.22 | jcrouse | It speaks to me |
