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| 02:59.59 | T0mW | are Secure Digital Memory cards now supported in linux kernel? Or, is it a proprietary driver, like NVidia's ? |
| 03:00.06 | sorphin | heh |
| 03:00.19 | sorphin | proprietary |
| 03:00.24 | T0mW | still |
| 03:00.25 | T0mW | hmm |
| 03:01.28 | MonMotha | I could have sworn someone had written a driver |
| 03:01.39 | sorphin | MonMotha: i've only seen sharps |
| 03:01.40 | MonMotha | IIRC familiar includes one, though it basically runs the card in MMC mdoe |
| 03:01.47 | MonMotha | and doesn't do SD-IO |
| 03:01.51 | sorphin | right |
| 03:01.54 | MonMotha | but it could talk to SD cards, and had source |
| 03:02.05 | MonMotha | so basically, it supported SD, but without the "secure" thing |
| 03:02.10 | sorphin | well, someone should tell zap (guy doing the stuff for the Axim) |
| 03:02.11 | T0mW | that's fine |
| 03:02.30 | T0mW | I don't need secure storage, I just want to use the bulk capacity of the things |
| 03:02.31 | sorphin | cuz he mentions no MMC support cuz of the specs |
| 03:02.47 | MonMotha | the MMC spec is open, doesn't mean the spec for the MMC hardware on the Axim is open |
| 03:03.01 | sorphin | heh |
| 03:03.15 | sorphin | he says the MMC spec |
| 03:03.19 | sorphin | not the hw spec |
| 03:03.20 | sorphin | :P |
| 03:03.26 | sorphin | and he has no mmc cards.. |
| 03:04.02 | MonMotha | heh |
| 03:04.04 | MonMotha | just use CF :) |
| 03:04.19 | sorphin | MonMotha: well, using CF disallowed CF networking, etc |
| 03:04.20 | sorphin | :P |
| 03:06.02 | T0mW | MonMotha: thank you |
| 03:06.35 | MonMotha | T0mW: did you find it? |
| 03:08.51 | T0mW | yup, found enough info. Thanks, just writing some email to a client and needed some tantalizing prospects to dangle in front of him. |
| 03:09.16 | T0mW | MonMotha: I know that he is fascinated by those camera stick memories. |
| 03:09.21 | MonMotha | ah |
| 03:09.24 | T0mW | heh |
| 03:09.25 | MonMotha | I'd say just use CF :) |
| 03:09.33 | T0mW | size matters |
| 03:09.39 | T0mW | ;) |
| 03:09.39 | MonMotha | nice and easy to talk to, though it needs a lot of wires |
| 03:09.45 | MonMotha | CF is small, just takes a lot of wires :) |
| 03:09.48 | T0mW | nod |
| 03:10.11 | T0mW | I prefer it as well, but, you got to go with what the customer wants, not what they need. |
| 03:10.18 | MonMotha | true |
| 03:10.34 | MonMotha | I've been fortunate enough to have clients that let me tell them what they need/want |
| 03:10.39 | MonMotha | doesn't always happen |
| 03:11.02 | T0mW | If I know him, he wants to goto a Trade Association show and be able to tell people that his entire software is contained inside "this". |
| 03:11.19 | MonMotha | Hey, we do that with CF cards :) |
| 03:11.23 | T0mW | yeah, |
| 03:11.33 | MonMotha | I've got a single board x86 embedded system that boots off CF in ATA mode like a hard drive |
| 03:11.36 | MonMotha | just boots lilo |
| 03:12.30 | T0mW | Hey, this guy thinks so far outside the box that he cannot even smell the cardboard. He is still coding in Assembler. |
| 03:12.51 | *** join/#elinux jcrouse (~nobody@vc7-1-203.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 03:12.58 | jcrouse | fn.net was slow tonight |
| 03:13.09 | T0mW | MonMotha: btdt, I've played with booting off CF configured as an ATA drive |
| 03:16.30 | MonMotha | T0mW: I code in assembler...on microcontrollers and when doing bootloaders |
| 03:20.12 | T0mW | MonMotha: yeah, I write a lot of it on the 8051, one of the products I support is about 30% assembler, the rest of the code is C. |
| 03:20.51 | T0mW | MonMotha: my first language that I learned was Z80 assembler. Then Microsoft Basic (interpreted) and then C. |
| 03:21.28 | T0mW | I like knowing how to do at least some coding in the native asm of any processor I work with. |
| 03:21.45 | T0mW | comes in handy a lot of times. |
| 03:22.08 | T0mW | especially when trying to figure out how the boot is failing. heh |
| 03:22.41 | T0mW | MonMotha: what processors do you code in asm? |
| 03:24.52 | chouimat|ibook | rules 456788:When entering a dark where you have a black chair always light the room ... because your black cat might sleep on that chair and a claw in the ass is painful |
| 03:25.26 | sorphin | uhhhhhhh |
| 03:25.58 | MonMotha | T0mW: 8051, a little ARM, MIPS, and a little i960 |
| 03:26.06 | jcrouse | Thats the confused utterance of somebody who has never had a claw in the ass |
| 03:26.14 | MonMotha | I have a project that I'm learning Z80 asm for |
| 03:26.28 | MonMotha | 8051 was my first arch, so it's kinda my baby :) |
| 03:26.43 | chouimat|ibook | sorphin: no just sit on my cat |
| 03:27.15 | sorphin | chouimat: nod |
| 03:29.21 | T0mW | MonMotha: any data still out there on Z80 asm? I learned off "The Z80 microcomputer Handbook". My copy was pretty tattered and when I was at a Hamfest, I saw a nearly pristene copy that someone had in a box of books. So I bought it for nostolgic reasons. |
| 03:29.55 | T0mW | the binding was barely worn! |
| 03:31.25 | T0mW | MonMotha: then there is my old copy of "Signetics Microcontroller Users Manual" complete with internal Signetics phone numbers to the engineers that worked on the 8051 for Signetics. At one time, you could actually get to talk with the guys working with the silicon. |
| 03:41.27 | *** join/#elinux prpplague (~billybob@adsl-69-154-79-198.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 03:41.52 | jcrouse | lague |
| 03:41.54 | jcrouse | wassup? |
| 03:42.46 | T0mW | prpplague: ho ho ho |
| 03:43.09 | jcrouse | zee, christmas, she is almost here, ya? |
| 03:45.23 | prpplague | @%^#^&$&^(%&*(%^(* |
| 03:45.50 | jcrouse | hehe - cute |
| 03:46.19 | prpplague | jcrouse: hehe, i made some "dirty" cookies for donna, hehe |
| 03:46.38 | prpplague | jcrouse: kids making cookies for school and santa |
| 03:47.23 | prpplague | T0mW: how goes it this evening? |
| 03:47.43 | T0mW | prpplague: not bad, just googling around |
| 03:47.47 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe, 1.7x2.1 board |
| 03:47.56 | prpplague | T0mW: its looking sweeeeeet |
| 03:48.04 | T0mW | heh, IMHO, SODIMM-144 |
| 03:48.20 | T0mW | or DIMM-100 edge conn |
| 03:48.32 | prpplague | T0mW: too hard for amatures/hobbiest to work with |
| 03:48.33 | T0mW | screw the headers |
| 03:50.14 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe, we are putting the mmc socket right on the module |
| 03:50.35 | T0mW | http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seanellis/images/mmcserial_sch.png |
| 03:50.43 | prpplague | T0mW: the whole thing is just a little bigger than a cf card |
| 03:52.00 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, from what i can tell it doesn't take much to talk to a mmc |
| 03:52.11 | prpplague | T0mW: main problem is handling the 512byte block |
| 03:52.39 | T0mW | what's wrong with a 512 byte sector? |
| 03:52.54 | prpplague | T0mW: but if you have SPI you really don;t have to use a rs-232 |
| 03:53.26 | prpplague | T0mW: nothing major, i just mean you have to make sure you have your software coded to write 512bytes at a time |
| 03:54.09 | T0mW | prpplague: naw, I was looking at connecting to the stuff. AFAICT, the secure digital media can be used in place of the MMC. I have a SD card here, three to be exact, was thinking of soldering some wires to one and hooking it up to the card engine I have to see what's what. |
| 03:55.21 | prpplague | T0mW: the sd card is the same as the mmc, just the sd has two additional pins for the "secure" portion |
| 03:55.31 | prpplague | T0mW: most sd cards can be used as mmc |
| 03:55.46 | T0mW | yeah, one is a write protect, dunno what the other one is. |
| 03:55.50 | prpplague | T0mW: the specification for SD is not totally open, however the mmc is |
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| 03:56.14 | T0mW | uhhuh, found the MMC Association and looked at the spec. |
| 03:56.47 | T0mW | freakin' mind blowing at how much data they can stuff into a peice of plastic, ain't it? |
| 03:56.47 | prpplague | T0mW: http://www.sharpsma.com/pub/productfocus/publications/micro/mcu/tec_appnote_LH79520_multimediacar.pdf |
| 03:57.13 | prpplague | T0mW: how did you find the spec? i looked and didn't see anything on mmca.org |
| 03:58.19 | jcrouse | five days of dealing with a group of people who honestly believe that Linux is hurting our business is enough |
| 03:58.36 | prpplague | T0mW: nm, i found it |
| 03:58.43 | prpplague | jcrouse: jeeze |
| 03:58.43 | T0mW | jcrouse: time to get another paycheck from some other company |
| 03:58.57 | prpplague | jcrouse: internal AMD ppl? |
| 03:59.23 | T0mW | jcrouse: life is too short to spend it dealing with Ass^H^H^H idiots. |
| 03:59.30 | jcrouse | T0mW: the company is actually great - this is just one or two people in a sort of position of power that bother us |
| 03:59.42 | prpplague | T0mW: anyway that url at sharp has a complete implmenation notes on mmc for lh79520 |
| 03:59.42 | T0mW | lol |
| 03:59.58 | jcrouse | The director of software development is an old school open source guy - he actually did a ton of Emacs lisp with RMS himself back in the day |
| 03:59.59 | T0mW | jcrouse: yeah, and one of them signs your paycheck, right? |
| 04:00.13 | jcrouse | nah - these people can only bother me in an annoying sort of manner |
| 04:01.17 | prpplague | T0mW: hey, did you get your jtag app working to flash ? |
| 04:01.21 | jcrouse | s name escapes him |
| 04:01.51 | jcrouse | mmmm... fat tire |
| 04:01.59 | jcrouse | Thats from my neck of the woods, is it not? |
| 04:02.17 | prpplague | yea, fort collins |
| 04:02.21 | jcrouse | Odells |
| 04:02.29 | prpplague | hehe, |
| 04:02.36 | jcrouse | They make a great winter beer - called Frambuzen |
| 04:03.17 | jcrouse | prpplague: hehe - I've got one of those too! |
| 04:03.31 | T0mW | prpplague: yeah, I got Jtag working, didn't bother with jflash. Jtag works okay for me. |
| 04:03.57 | prpplague | T0mW: for lh79520? |
| 04:04.10 | prpplague | jcrouse: i don't see odells frambuzen |
| 04:04.15 | T0mW | prpplague: oh, not yet. |
| 04:04.33 | jcrouse | prpplague: on rate beer you mean? |
| 04:04.35 | T0mW | prpplague: if you're eager for it, I can work on it tonite |
| 04:04.39 | prpplague | jcrouse: yea |
| 04:04.42 | jcrouse | prpplague: wait, maybe its not odells |
| 04:05.02 | prpplague | T0mW: no, mine works, just wondering if you needed any info |
| 04:05.09 | jcrouse | Odells is the *other* Ft. Collins brewery (90 Shilling - its good) |
| 04:05.15 | jcrouse | Fat Tire is from New Belgium |
| 04:05.32 | prpplague | ohhh |
| 04:05.42 | prpplague | http://www.ratebeer.com/Ratings/Beer/Beer-Ratings.asp?BeerID=2314 |
| 04:05.52 | jcrouse | http://www.newbelgium.com/beers_fz.asp |
| 04:05.55 | T0mW | prpplague: naw, I have that lh79520 board cooking in the autorouter. I'll put that together in the next couple of weeks and victumize that to Jtag. |
| 04:06.03 | jcrouse | prpplague: you got it |
| 04:06.53 | T0mW | prpplague: I've pretty much all the parts for it, just need to the rest of the stuff off Digikey. |
| 04:07.00 | prpplague | T0mW: ok, well let me know if you need some info |
| 04:07.03 | jcrouse | prpplague: I'm doing the winter beer mini tour at Old Chicagos |
| 04:07.08 | prpplague | jcrouse: hehe |
| 04:07.24 | jcrouse | I'm up to 7, so I need to go with my wife this weekend so I can drink my limit and have a DD |
| 04:07.29 | prpplague | T0mW: we should have our first production board on wed. |
| 04:07.40 | T0mW | prpplague: nice |
| 04:07.49 | prpplague | jcrouse: hehe |
| 04:08.32 | MonMotha | T0mW: cooking in the autorouter? it takes that long? |
| 04:08.48 | prpplague | MonMotha: when you are doing it small |
| 04:08.52 | T0mW | MonMotha: 5 layer board |
| 04:08.54 | prpplague | MonMotha: very small |
| 04:09.06 | MonMotha | T0mW: and my 8051 reference is also the red backed Signetics 8051 guide, which is a publication of Intel's specs with modification |
| 04:09.35 | T0mW | MonMotha: about 2.6" x 2.1" (50mm X 65mm) |
| 04:15.24 | jcrouse | prpplague: http://www.ratebeer.com/Ratings/Beer/Beer-Ratings.asp?BeerID=2177 |
| 04:15.30 | jcrouse | prpplague: thats the Odells beer I was thinking of |
| 04:16.42 | MonMotha | T0mW: ah, that would be fairly complicated |
| 04:17.05 | MonMotha | as somebody put it, it's a multi thousand node travelling salesman problem where you're not allowed to overlap except on a different layer |
| 04:17.35 | MonMotha | and I don't have any Z80 references, unfortunately. I should get one |
| 04:17.49 | T0mW | I don't usually autoroute boards, but I thought that I would do that with this one. It is so small... |
| 04:18.10 | MonMotha | and yes, hamfests are great places to pick up random stuff. I picked up a BOX of 74S series logic and some analog stuff (mostly op-amps) for $1 at Hamvention :) |
| 04:18.20 | T0mW | lol |
| 04:18.36 | MonMotha | yes, we're talking hundreds of chips |
| 04:18.50 | T0mW | yeah, pickup up a box of 50, new, carbide drills, 0.029", for only $15 one time. |
| 04:19.03 | MonMotha | mostly 74S, a few 74LS, some true 74 series TTL, a couple HCs, and a couple 54193s, yes milspec :) |
| 04:19.08 | MonMotha | not bad |
| 04:20.24 | T0mW | MonMotha: yeah, then there are the tape reels of leftover auto-insertion parts. You can get those reels with maybe 5 or 6 feet of components on them. Sometimes lots of good resistors & caps on those reels. |
| 04:21.13 | T0mW | nice way to stock up on some quantity of a few components. |
| 04:21.54 | T0mW | like you can get 100..200 0.1uFd caps, resistors in the K + 10K's ranges, etc. |
| 04:22.04 | T0mW | for a dollar or two |
| 04:24.20 | MonMotha | yup |
| 04:24.38 | T0mW | heh, my nephew has taken up with smoking cigars |
| 04:24.47 | T0mW | he is 20 years old.. |
| 04:24.57 | jcrouse | T0mW: so have you taken up with smacking him across the head? |
| 04:25.16 | T0mW | lol, he is a good kid |
| 04:25.39 | T0mW | otherwise, I'm proud of that boy. |
| 04:26.22 | T0mW | MonMotha: which Hamvention, Dayton? |
| 04:27.08 | MonMotha | yup |
| 04:27.29 | T0mW | :) last time I was there was around 1996 |
| 04:27.35 | T0mW | 1994? |
| 04:27.42 | T0mW | something like that. |
| 04:27.57 | Soopaman | sorphin, you around? |
| 04:28.11 | T0mW | that one takes you at least a day to walk all the way through it and carefully consider all that is on the tables. |
| 04:28.26 | MonMotha | yes, yes it does |
| 04:28.29 | MonMotha | in the rain |
| 04:28.35 | T0mW | MonMotha: have you been to Timonium, Maryland? |
| 04:28.39 | MonMotha | nope |
| 04:28.55 | MonMotha | in fact, last year was the first time I'd gone to a hamfest |
| 04:29.02 | T0mW | MonMotha: used to be another good one, early Spring and Late Falls |
| 04:29.03 | MonMotha | I got my license just over a year ago |
| 04:29.07 | T0mW | s/falls/fall/ |
| 04:29.27 | T0mW | MonMotha: Rochester NY is ok, but a little thinly attended |
| 04:29.42 | T0mW | MonMotha: you're in Pittsburg? |
| 04:30.54 | T0mW | MonMotha: oh, maybe it is Indiana then |
| 04:33.19 | MonMotha | Indiana :) |
| 04:33.27 | MonMotha | whois me and look up the domain :) |
| 04:34.18 | MonMotha | how'd you get Pittsburg? :) |
| 04:37.39 | T0mW | MonMotha: off the top of my head, I knew you were west of me, for some reason thought it was Pittsburg. |
| 04:37.52 | chouimat|Zzz | good night |
| 04:38.39 | MonMotha | oh |
| 04:38.45 | MonMotha | nope, Terrible Hole, IN |
| 04:39.06 | T0mW | heh, I like Iowa better |
| 04:41.22 | MonMotha | now if only I coudl figure out why my MythTV server suddenly lost sound |
| 04:41.31 | T0mW | heh |
| 04:42.18 | T0mW | good luck, that is one thing I have had major headaches with: sound. I finally got the AC97 working with SPDIF output and giving me Surround Sound (5.1) |
| 04:42.56 | MonMotha | well, it was working |
| 04:44.33 | MonMotha | ah, it wasn't my mythtv server, it was my desktop |
| 04:44.41 | T0mW | heh |
| 04:44.57 | MonMotha | I inadvertantly bumped the mute button on my speakers' volume control |
| 04:45.06 | jcrouse | heh |
| 04:45.19 | MonMotha | nwo I acn't log into the mythtv server... |
| 04:45.20 | MonMotha | grr |
| 04:46.38 | T0mW | MonMotha: they actually have television in Indiana? |
| 04:48.00 | jcrouse | No silly, thats why he needs the mythtv... :) |
| 04:48.12 | jcrouse | He has it piped in from afar |
| 04:50.06 | MonMotha | Yes |
| 04:50.12 | MonMotha | across the room |
| 04:50.26 | jcrouse | God speed little bits! |
| 05:01.43 | jcrouse | ohh... dumb and dumber |
| 05:01.48 | jcrouse | its been a while since I've seen this one |
| 05:28.43 | MonMotha | well, that was fun |
| 05:28.49 | MonMotha | turns out it was hanging on mounting an NFS filesystem |
| 05:29.06 | MonMotha | I redid the startup order so it starts SSHd before it tries to mount NFS stuff (since I don't mount /usr off NFS) |
| 05:29.13 | MonMotha | that way I can be sure I can access it (since it runs headless) |
| 05:29.24 | MonMotha | It runs a serial console, but even getting a console cable to this thing is difficult |
| 05:31.29 | T0mW | heh, yeah, I had fun getting LVM2 to see the freaking Logical Volumes on boot. I had to delay my vgscan for 8 seconds so the SATA drives would come up. |
| 05:31.36 | T0mW | SATA sux |
| 05:32.04 | T0mW | for some reason, the scsi code would see the drives, but wouldn't let you access them for about 8 seconds |
| 05:32.10 | MonMotha | hah |
| 05:32.18 | MonMotha | I'm waiting for SASCSI |
| 05:32.36 | T0mW | Hey, I reboot so seldom that I don't care much about it. |
| 05:33.17 | T0mW | I just stuck the 8 second delay in the startup scripts (rc.sysinit) and left it at that. |
| 05:33.38 | T0mW | had me going for a while though |
| 05:34.17 | T0mW | IIRC, I didn't have this problem with 2.6.7, only with 2.6.8.1 |
| 05:34.37 | MonMotha | heh |
| 05:34.43 | MonMotha | I've been known to kludge like that too |
| 05:34.59 | MonMotha | 00:34:50 up 114 days, 8:23, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 <--- My server at home |
| 05:35.15 | T0mW | tlb's mva's course pages, fine pages, my head is spinning. |
| 05:35.40 | MonMotha | what arch? |
| 05:35.46 | T0mW | ARM922T |
| 05:35.54 | MonMotha | ah, ok |
| 05:36.11 | MonMotha | heh, I turned on my mythtv and started the live tv function |
| 05:36.25 | MonMotha | it tuned itself to oxygen, which is showing "Task sex with Sue Johansen" :) |
| 05:36.27 | T0mW | first time I've ever seriously tried to understand MMU operation beyound the nebulous concept stage |
| 05:36.29 | MonMotha | s/Task/Talk/ |
| 05:36.36 | T0mW | lol |
| 05:36.43 | MonMotha | T0mW: yeah, I'm tempted to build an MMU on my i960 board |
| 05:36.53 | MonMotha | I want to run real-deal linux on it |
| 05:37.02 | MonMotha | maybe as an add-on |
| 05:37.19 | T0mW | I think I've seen that show, they graphically talk Sex. |
| 05:37.32 | *** join/#elinux Soopaman (~soopaman@S0106000354014131.wp.shawcable.net) |
| 05:37.33 | *** join/#elinux Soopaman_ (~soopaman@S0106000354014131.wp.shawcable.net) |
| 05:37.49 | MonMotha | yes, she has dolls |
| 05:38.03 | T0mW | MonMotha: how you going to do it, with an FPGA as a translation element? |
| 05:38.15 | MonMotha | T0mW: that was my plan |
| 05:38.18 | T0mW | nod |
| 05:38.29 | T0mW | interesting idea. |
| 05:38.35 | MonMotha | I need an FPGA (or a lot of 74 series logic) to handle the burst transfers anyway, and I need a DRAM controller of some kind |
| 05:38.49 | MonMotha | I figured I could implement a PMMU on it while I was at it |
| 05:38.52 | T0mW | all the MMU is is nothing more than a glorified Banked Memory device |
| 05:38.55 | MonMotha | yup |
| 05:39.10 | T0mW | just a lot more bells & whistles. |
| 05:39.16 | MonMotha | divide things up into pages, allow you to map physical pages to virtual pages, and protect pages |
| 05:39.30 | T0mW | yeah, fault via an interrupt |
| 05:39.36 | MonMotha | yup |
| 05:39.50 | MonMotha | there's actually a special fault pin on the i960 that seems to be just for this purpose (though it is very undocumented) |
| 05:39.55 | MonMotha | I'll have to get my guides back out |
| 05:40.02 | MonMotha | I'm planning on maying working on this over x-mas break |
| 05:40.33 | T0mW | I've a proprietary app to port over to ARM, I would need to implement the MMU. The old platform used a bank mapper scheme (hardware register file to do translation) |
| 05:41.02 | T0mW | it was a 16 deep register file |
| 05:41.11 | T0mW | s/file/device/ |
| 05:41.49 | T0mW | toyz |
| 05:42.36 | MonMotha | did I tell you about my Computer Architecture class project? :) |
| 05:43.22 | T0mW | no |
| 05:43.30 | MonMotha | heh, it has no program counter |
| 05:43.35 | T0mW | ? |
| 05:43.40 | T0mW | heh |
| 05:43.59 | T0mW | so, it is not a Von Neuman, or Harvard arch? |
| 05:44.01 | MonMotha | http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~martinbv/arch-1.3.txt |
| 05:44.12 | MonMotha | well, the memory arrangement is Von Neuman |
| 05:44.14 | MonMotha | but it has no PC |
| 05:44.29 | MonMotha | there's my current spec |
| 05:44.38 | MonMotha | it's not finished, but you can certainly see where I'm going |
| 05:45.30 | T0mW | MonMotha: you should be able to build that as a software emulated machine. |
| 05:45.53 | T0mW | that would prove out the concept, build it as a PCODE machine |
| 05:46.20 | T0mW | your microcode would be implemented with the software functions. |
| 05:46.23 | MonMotha | T0mW: well, we're going to implement it in hardware :) |
| 05:46.28 | T0mW | later |
| 05:46.29 | MonMotha | that's what the class involves |
| 05:46.31 | T0mW | yeah |
| 05:46.44 | MonMotha | well, I have to do what the class requires. Obviously I could code up an emulator (and I've been tempted to) |
| 05:46.47 | T0mW | MonMotha: with an FPGA, programmable logic, right? |
| 05:46.51 | MonMotha | yup |
| 05:47.03 | MonMotha | hence all my complaints about the crappy Xilinx software recently |
| 05:47.05 | MonMotha | btrb |
| 05:47.06 | T0mW | yeah, so the software emulator would let you work the bugs out. |
| 05:47.10 | MonMotha | gotta go get something off the printer |
| 05:47.19 | T0mW | MonMotha: gonna implement a BSR (jtag)? |
| 05:48.16 | MonMotha | back |
| 05:48.23 | MonMotha | hadn't planned on it |
| 05:48.46 | MonMotha | I have a simulator that will let me run the entire verilog design on a PC |
| 05:49.11 | MonMotha | too bad I have to use the stupid, buggy-as-all-hell Xilinx visual stuff (draw out schematics and it generates Verilog for you) rather than just writing in Verilog directly |
| 05:49.22 | T0mW | many years ago I did some work on bit-slice machines. that was cool, we didn't have FPGA's to work with so the implementation was done with descrete logic + PROMs. |
| 05:49.29 | MonMotha | since some people in the past have screwed themselves over by writing bad Verilog that can't be synthesized, they just prohibit it now |
| 05:49.39 | MonMotha | yeah, we've got big FPGAs |
| 05:49.48 | MonMotha | Spartan 2E series from Xilinx, we get them free |
| 05:50.03 | T0mW | preloadable counters (for the PC and to JUMP + CALL), latches (for branch return instructions) |
| 05:50.46 | MonMotha | yup |
| 05:50.55 | MonMotha | we don't have PC though, so no counter required |
| 05:51.07 | MonMotha | the most complex part of the thing hardware wise is that it has a hardware stack |
| 05:51.16 | T0mW | 40 bit wide control outputs to control the external hardware. It was an XYZ CRT that was being controlled by this thing. You would actually scribe the electron beam around as if it was a pencil. |
| 05:51.27 | MonMotha | neat |
| 05:51.28 | T0mW | it was cool |
| 05:52.02 | T0mW | fastest CPU we had then was an 8MHz Z80, and that thing ran around 40MHz. |
| 05:52.19 | T0mW | so, um |
| 05:52.34 | T0mW | how are you going to fetch instructions without a PC? |
| 05:52.36 | MonMotha | heh, yeah |
| 05:52.45 | MonMotha | read the spec :) |
| 05:53.01 | MonMotha | each instruction contains the address of the next instruction, which is loaded into a register (ni) |
| 05:53.14 | MonMotha | when the next instruction cycle comes around, ci := ni, fetch from ci |
| 05:53.53 | T0mW | right, so you effectively have a program counter |
| 05:54.09 | T0mW | MonMotha: so, you are building a linked list of instructions. |
| 05:54.19 | MonMotha | yup |
| 05:54.27 | T0mW | I don't see the point |
| 05:54.31 | MonMotha | the idea is that the "program counter" isn't actually a counter |
| 05:54.33 | MonMotha | there is no point :) |
| 05:54.47 | T0mW | ok, got it |
| 05:54.48 | MonMotha | that was the point. To make an architecture that's completely pointless, just for the purpose of being different |
| 05:54.58 | T0mW | ROTFL |
| 05:55.04 | T0mW | no shit |
| 05:55.09 | MonMotha | yup |
| 05:55.18 | MonMotha | everybody else just basically cloned MIPS |
| 05:55.30 | T0mW | well, you'll get grade points for originality. |
| 05:55.41 | MonMotha | I took her comment that she didn't know of any arch without a program counter and made one |
| 05:55.44 | MonMotha | that was the idea |
| 05:55.54 | T0mW | and, put the oneous of building the code onto the assembler. |
| 05:56.09 | T0mW | you going build a highlevel compiler for it too: e.g. a gcc port? |
| 05:56.12 | MonMotha | it's really a stupid idea. Basically you nearly double the size of your code for very little benefit |
| 05:56.16 | MonMotha | oh no, definately not |
| 05:56.21 | MonMotha | this isn't a compilers course : |
| 05:56.24 | MonMotha | :) |
| 05:56.24 | T0mW | aw |
| 05:56.48 | MonMotha | they have an entire course on compilers her |
| 05:56.50 | MonMotha | e |
| 05:57.05 | T0mW | ok, but it could be a project that you take all the way through your achedemic study. Like take the software course and implement a compiler for your arch? |
| 05:57.15 | T0mW | heh |
| 05:57.26 | T0mW | like having a deformed pet dog or something |
| 05:57.28 | MonMotha | they've not done that in the past |
| 05:57.40 | MonMotha | thing also is that the compilers course requires a bunch of CS courses I don't plan on taking |
| 05:57.50 | T0mW | oh, what's your Major |
| 05:58.06 | T0mW | EE? |
| 05:58.10 | MonMotha | Computer Engineering, which here is basically EE with the analog stuff ripped out and digital and CS substituted |
| 05:58.27 | T0mW | yeah, analog is a whole realm onto itself |
| 05:58.54 | MonMotha | I take CS120 (which is the "hey, let's learn Java" course), CS220 (data structions, intro algorithm analysis), Computer Arch I & II (II is actually an ECE course), and Operating Systems |
| 05:58.56 | T0mW | I've seen good analog engineers and good digital engineers but never one that can do both well. |
| 05:59.14 | T0mW | cool |
| 05:59.21 | MonMotha | yup, I do analog stuff mostly as a hobby |
| 05:59.27 | T0mW | MonMotha: have fun with your processor |
| 05:59.32 | MonMotha | that and some mixed signal interfacing |
| 05:59.52 | T0mW | strange though, the instruction set looks vaguely arm-like... |
| 06:00.14 | MonMotha | hum, wonder where I got that from... :) |
| 06:00.18 | T0mW | like how many ways can you say "put this value into this register" ? |
| 06:00.19 | MonMotha | actually, I based it more on 8051 |
| 06:01.00 | MonMotha | basically, it's a hodgepodge of 8051, ARM, and MIPS |
| 06:01.04 | T0mW | yeah, you could name your CPU the PP-1 (pointless processor version 1) |
| 06:01.04 | MonMotha | taken down to 15 total instructions |
| 06:01.31 | MonMotha | I was thinking NOPC, but that's better :) |
| 06:01.46 | T0mW | hey, as long as it does something usefull, like read a switch and turn an LED on/off |
| 06:02.04 | MonMotha | it has to basically run euclid's algorithm |
| 06:02.07 | MonMotha | that's the test |
| 06:02.12 | T0mW | euclid? |
| 06:02.24 | MonMotha | the gcd algorithm |
| 06:02.28 | T0mW | what is that, like Drystone or something? |
| 06:02.42 | MonMotha | no, just something given by the comp arch requirements |
| 06:02.46 | T0mW | k |
| 06:03.32 | T0mW | and, it has to give a predetermined result with a given input, right? to prove it is actually running the code and not a hot-deck setup? |
| 06:04.10 | MonMotha | what it does is you give it a number and it finds a relatively prime number by iterating from 1 up until it finds one (in other words, in an extremely inefficient manner, but it tests the proc well) |
| 06:04.31 | T0mW | ok |
| 06:04.48 | T0mW | sort of like compiling the linux kernel on a new box to test everything out. |
| 06:04.50 | T0mW | heh |
| 06:04.56 | MonMotha | kinda |
| 06:05.29 | T0mW | ok, I'm off to watch what mythtv captured for me. I am way behind on my useless tv watching. |
| 06:05.31 | T0mW | later |
| 06:06.12 | MonMotha | heh |
| 06:06.17 | MonMotha | I need to get to doing my emag |
| 06:06.23 | MonMotha | but first a PB&J sandwich |
| 06:42.23 | TimRiker | T0mW: if you get a minute sometime chmod g+w elinux/htdocs/datafile on sf. k? |
| 06:42.37 | TimRiker | er datafiles |
| 06:42.47 | T0mW | TimRiker: k |
| 06:44.49 | TimRiker | not in kansas anymore |
| 06:54.58 | T0mW | `ls`: still there? |
| 06:58.42 | `ls` | yeah. |
| 06:58.53 | `ls` | need sleep... |
| 06:58.59 | T0mW | ok, logged, just forget where the htdos are |
| 06:59.20 | T0mW | under /home/groups ? |
| 06:59.42 | T0mW | nm, I'll find it |
| 06:59.43 | `ls` | /home/groups/e/el/elinux/htdocs/datafiles |
| 06:59.54 | T0mW | tnx, good night |
| 06:59.58 | `ls` | nite |
| 07:00.39 | `ls` | you did a chmod g+w /home/groups/e/el/elinux/htdocs/datafiles ? |
| 07:01.40 | T0mW | done |
| 07:01.43 | `ls` | I suggest adding umask 002 to your ~/.bashrc on sf. |
| 07:01.56 | T0mW | k, it is 022 now |
| 07:02.20 | `ls` | as normally you don't create stuff in ~ but rather in group dirs, 002 makes more sense. |
| 07:02.28 | kergoth | its also a good idea to g+s your directories so that new files in them have the correct group by default |
| 07:03.26 | T0mW | kergoth: ok, thanks for the tip |
| 07:03.45 | T0mW | kergoth: something new, I didn't know that before |
| 07:09.32 | T0mW | kergoth: ah, that works pretty good. tnx, I'd been wondering how to do that a while back |
| 07:09.49 | kergoth | no problem |
| 07:18.36 | T0mW | ok, also cleaned up my act on tuxscreen files & dirs |
| 07:37.29 | T0mW | kergoth: is this you? http://www.paonia.com/~kenm/DCT5000/ |
| 07:46.25 | kergoth | nope |
| 07:46.32 | T0mW | ok |
| 07:50.09 | sorphin | T0mW: that's gpsfan's :P |
| 07:50.18 | sorphin | he's kenm |
| 07:51.43 | T0mW | sorphin: yeah, that is who I finally narrowed it down to, thanks sorphin. there was some broken links on the DTC5000 info about JTAG pinouts. |
| 07:51.56 | sorphin | nod |
