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| 02:37.45 | rastaval | hello |
| 02:39.24 | CosmicPenguin | evening |
| 02:39.30 | CosmicPenguin | or morning |
| 02:39.31 | CosmicPenguin | or whatever |
| 02:41.45 | rastaval | hehe |
| 02:41.45 | rastaval | CosmicPenguin |
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| 06:48.48 | Big_Johsnon | hello all |
| 06:48.53 | Big_Johsnon | anybody awake in here? |
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| 14:04.56 | CosmicPenguin | Morning |
| 14:06.06 | mallum | hey |
| 14:09.05 | mark | whats up |
| 14:15.24 | *** join/#elinux prpplague (~billybob@12.148.134.14) |
| 14:18.31 | CosmicPenguin | The gang's all here |
| 14:24.53 | *** join/#elinux sieve_work (~klu5ter@12.148.134.14) |
| 14:27.05 | TomW | prpplague: holy sh!t, Batman! Those connector pins are tiny! |
| 14:27.28 | sieve_work | morning all |
| 14:27.39 | CosmicPenguin | TomW: things least likely to hear from Robin? |
| 14:32.24 | prpplague | TomW: lol |
| 14:32.28 | prpplague | TomW: i told you |
| 14:32.40 | prpplague | TomW: i did a test solder |
| 14:32.55 | prpplague | TomW: i can solder it with a standard 15w iron with a good tip |
| 14:33.14 | TomW | heh |
| 14:33.16 | prpplague | TomW: just as long as i have a clear path |
| 14:33.48 | TomW | CosmicPenguin: no, just what Robin really was saying but the censors wouldn't let him.. |
| 14:34.44 | prpplague | TomW: what type of chips case are you planning to use for the PS and rs-232? |
| 14:34.47 | prpplague | TomW: dip? |
| 14:35.39 | TomW | prpplague: I got the connectors last night when I arrived home (was messing witn Windoze problems over in New Jersey), also got my EagleCAD 4.1 upgrade as well. |
| 14:36.18 | TomW | prpplague: good thing about having the physical parts is that it makes the mechanical drawing make more sense. |
| 14:36.28 | prpplague | TomW: ok, estimates on having a initial layout? |
| 14:36.33 | TomW | none |
| 14:36.40 | prpplague | TomW: ok |
| 14:36.52 | TomW | prpplague: RS232 would prolly be Maxim components, they are easy to get. |
| 14:37.26 | prpplague | TomW: agreed, i was just thinking it would be easier if you can use dip packages |
| 14:38.21 | TomW | prpplague: the PS components will prolly be Linear Technology parts 'cause they actually keep stock on the stuff they advertise availability for, not like Maxim: it is in the catalog, but, "we will have to wait for another production run before we can ship you some samples / small order..." |
| 14:39.24 | TomW | prpplague: naw, go with SSOP packages, they can be hand soldered if need be. DIP is too huge. |
| 14:40.05 | CosmicPenguin | lol - somebody on a mailing list I'm on just said he was like Debian Linux: |
| 14:40.30 | CosmicPenguin | Once somebody finally opened his shell, they would be apt to love him |
| 14:40.31 | TomW | prpplague: did you research the power pinouts of all the card devices to see if they are the same pins on each card? Or, are they different pins for differnet cards? |
| 14:41.16 | TomW | CosmicPenguin: eh? So, he is looking for a woman willing to "draw him out", eh? |
| 14:41.54 | CosmicPenguin | TomW: shell, apt, Debain |
| 14:41.55 | *** join/#elinux devsucks (~devsucks@65.117.135.105) |
| 14:42.03 | CosmicPenguin | Its a horrible joke |
| 14:42.12 | TomW | prpplague: had a really great time Saturday. Went to a dinner dance, danced with a whole bunch of single women that I knew, danced until my feet hurt! |
| 14:42.43 | signal11 | CosmicPenguin: that is just awful. but moderately funny i must admit |
| 14:43.35 | TomW | prpplague: finally spent most of the evening with Arlene, she is a really cute blond. She works in maintainence for one of the local resorts, I told her that she has "great legs for a plumber". |
| 14:44.21 | TomW | CosmicPenguin: ok, got it. duh |
| 14:44.40 | CosmicPenguin | signal11: I told him that joke ws so corny, you might call it a kernel |
| 14:44.54 | TomW | heh |
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| 14:54.10 | prpplague | TomW: fun fun |
| 14:54.28 | prpplague | TomW: you think i can solder ssop with a 15w iron ? |
| 14:54.52 | prpplague | TomW: thats gonna be a difficult think to do if i want to do a bunch |
| 14:55.23 | prpplague | TomW: i have a list of about 12 cards that will work with this board |
| 14:55.36 | prpplague | TomW: each with different power pins |
| 14:55.49 | prpplague | TomW: just need to have the solder points labeled |
| 15:03.42 | prpplague | TomW: just emailed you a listed of core modules i have tinkered with using that amp dimm connector |
| 15:14.43 | *** join/#elinux TomW (~TomW@24.238.72.225) |
| 15:15.10 | TomW | prpplague: freaking new CDRW went belly-up and took the IDE subsystem down with it! |
| 15:34.31 | *** join/#elinux chouimat (~dieu@r2351064.cidc.net) |
| 15:34.54 | chouimat | hi |
| 15:35.33 | TomW | chouimat: what?! |
| 15:35.59 | TomW | heh |
| 15:36.49 | nelson | TomW: hey, I finally met Larry Welcoin. |
| 15:37.02 | TomW | hehahe |
| 15:37.19 | chouimat | TomW: hi |
| 15:37.27 | TomW | nelson: he's been too busy to bs with me lately, too much work. |
| 15:37.50 | TomW | nelson: where did you guys hook up at? |
| 15:38.12 | nelson | TomW: I made the pilgrimage to Gouveneur |
| 15:38.31 | nelson | I was headed down to Philadelphia (NY) to ride the rail-trail there. |
| 15:38.47 | TomW | heh, yeah, pilgrimage is the word for it. There is a lot of space between towns in upstate NY. |
| 15:39.20 | TomW | nelson: he and I used to work together at a small company in NJ. |
| 15:39.21 | nelson | Well, heck, you can spend a half-hour just driving from one end of Syracuse to the other, so it's considered reasonable to drive 1/2 hour to another town here. |
| 15:39.35 | nelson | TomW: Ahhhhh, I was wondering. |
| 15:39.45 | TomW | nelson: an hour to purchase a loaf of bread... |
| 15:39.53 | nelson | TomW: drop me a line next time you come visit him..... |
| 15:40.00 | TomW | k |
| 15:40.37 | TomW | maybe soon, I feel a "road trip" coming on. |
| 15:41.59 | TomW | nelson: I got him started with his linux stuff, kept talking it up and he finally took the plunge a few years ago |
| 15:43.53 | nelson | TomW: Hehe. Yes, he's very enthusiastic about it. Recognizes a good thing when he sees it. |
| 15:45.28 | TomW | he's been doing computers for quite a while and got fed up his systems' crashing & burning all the time. |
| 15:46.09 | prpplague | TomW: doh cdrw crash ehh? |
| 15:46.39 | TomW | nelson: ok, we'll have to get together and trade stories some day. Yeah, CDRW took the system down a while ago, cheap-o Phillips unit. |
| 15:46.51 | prpplague | TomW: you are pretty sure about using ssop on the board? i'm just wondering about soldering with my radio shack special |
| 15:47.26 | TomW | prpplague: got to bite the bullet, old man, and learn some new tricks ... get some new tools... |
| 15:47.27 | prpplague | TomW: i sent you an email with a list of core modules i've played with using that dimm socket |
| 15:48.06 | prpplague | TomW: yea, well this is funded from my pocket, and i like to keep things simple |
| 15:48.44 | prpplague | TomW: you get the email? |
| 15:49.46 | TomW | prpplague: yeah, got the email |
| 15:50.05 | prpplague | TomW: ok |
| 15:50.26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: did you ever get web hosting from file? |
| 15:50.30 | prpplague | TomW: so..... |
| 15:51.10 | TomW | prpplague: brb, phone call |
| 15:51.10 | prpplague | TomW: have me something soon? |
| 15:51.13 | prpplague | TomW: ok |
| 15:54.55 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: no, he couldn't deliver |
| 15:55.02 | prpplague | ok |
| 15:55.13 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I've got a spare domain on my current server, though I'm worried about bandwidth |
| 15:55.33 | CosmicPenguin | andersee offered me a domain off of busybox.net, but I don't know if he have alll the nessesary tools |
| 15:55.50 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: so I'm really in a bind - more so because all of my hosting options are name based, so I need a name... :) |
| 15:56.47 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hmm, i could set up small-linux.com here |
| 15:59.21 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I'm suffering from delisions of grandure at this point, with dreams of a website with news and message boards and bug lists and patch managers and automated downloads and all that other crap I really don't have the time or expertise to create |
| 16:00.14 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea |
| 16:02.06 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: regardless, if greg follows through on his threat not to accept my patches, that only gives meat to a project fork |
| 16:17.30 | TomW | wankerbox.com? |
| 16:18.24 | TomW | CosmicPenguin: that domain is not yet taken. :D |
| 16:19.02 | *** join/#elinux diana (~diana@home-25022.b.astral.ro) |
| 16:19.03 | diana | hello |
| 16:19.09 | diana | i have a stupid question |
| 16:19.14 | TomW | uhoh |
| 16:19.25 | diana | can i put uclinux into 512k with 1 mb ram? |
| 16:19.29 | TomW | no |
| 16:19.40 | diana | what is minimum? |
| 16:19.58 | TomW | ram is too small, I would not try uclinux with < 4 MB |
| 16:20.00 | TomW | ram |
| 16:20.21 | diana | i mean uclinux |
| 16:20.28 | diana | not normal linux |
| 16:21.21 | CosmicPenguin | wankerbox? |
| 16:21.24 | TomW | diana: technically, you *might* cram uClinux kernel into a 512K Flash / eprom, but, that would be a useless system. I have gotten linux / uClinux into as little as 1Meg of Flash running with 4MB of RAM.. |
| 16:22.00 | TomW | diana: you need some basic utils in the flash image: kernel + romfs |
| 16:22.08 | CosmicPenguin | You could probably pull it off if you had one minimial appliaction running as the init app |
| 16:22.26 | CosmicPenguin | It would be tight |
| 16:22.33 | TomW | minimal |
| 16:22.47 | TomW | no ping, no ftp, nothing else |
| 16:22.56 | CosmicPenguin | Stupid keyboard... :) |
| 16:23.01 | TomW | busy box is 300K |
| 16:23.13 | TomW | IIRC |
| 16:23.14 | diana | CosmicPenguin > exacly i'm intresting in minimum ram |
| 16:23.17 | diana | no bash no nothing |
| 16:23.22 | diana | just my app as init |
| 16:23.30 | TomW | ok, possible |
| 16:23.35 | diana | thx TomW |
| 16:23.50 | diana | what is minimum of ram memory? |
| 16:23.51 | TomW | diana: what processor |
| 16:23.58 | diana | TomW > i386 |
| 16:24.01 | TomW | ouch |
| 16:24.10 | diana | why ouch? |
| 16:24.17 | TomW | i386 == power hog |
| 16:24.31 | diana | TomW > that's my bussines |
| 16:24.38 | TomW | ARM == power friendly, low current, good MIPS |
| 16:24.39 | diana | i don't use battery |
| 16:24.48 | TomW | I do |
| 16:24.49 | diana | i don't care much about power |
| 16:24.53 | diana | anyway |
| 16:24.58 | diana | can i use 1 mb of ram? |
| 16:25.42 | CosmicPenguin | That depends on your app |
| 16:25.51 | CosmicPenguin | If you can afford it, I would toss in another MB |
| 16:25.58 | diana | CosmicPenguin > i mean just for kernel |
| 16:26.09 | diana | CosmicPenguin > i can't install more MB |
| 16:26.13 | CosmicPenguin | Oh, sure - the kernel should fit in 1MB |
| 16:26.15 | TomW | possibly, look, the RAM is there so that the application can be loaded and run, then RAM can be malloc'ed to satisfy the app. Your only other need for RAM is for buffers (if any) for ethernet / console drivers. |
| 16:26.16 | diana | i already have the hardware |
| 16:26.30 | diana | ok |
| 16:26.44 | CosmicPenguin | In other words - don't turn it into a web server |
| 16:26.45 | diana | what is the minimum for kernel + ppp |
| 16:26.52 | diana | CosmicPenguin > no way |
| 16:27.00 | TomW | diana: you would have to build the kernel to Execute In Place (EIP) |
| 16:27.09 | diana | ok TomW |
| 16:27.16 | diana | what is the minimum for kernel + ppp? |
| 16:27.21 | diana | with minimum ppp |
| 16:27.40 | diana | not all crazy stuff |
| 16:28.04 | TomW | diana: you really don't need uClinux to run x86. x86 will run a stripped down version of linux. uClinux still, IIRC, has an issue with memory fragmentation that is a killer if you alloc / free many ram sections. |
| 16:28.50 | TomW | diana: another issue with uClinux is that the application runs a supervisor (root) and can clobber the kernel / driver code at will. |
| 16:29.58 | TomW | diana: running a standard stripped-down version of mainstream linux affords you the protection for the kernel from the app trashing it, plus you take advantage of the MMU in which case you avoid the memory fragmentation issue entirely. |
| 16:31.36 | TomW | diana: the main differnce between uClinux vs. linux is the MMU, uClinux is for processors without an MMU. If you ignore the MMU issue, there is entirely no differnce between them. |
| 16:33.19 | TomW | diana: I still say that you need 1MB of Flash to store your kernel + romfs in. Even if the rom file system only contains linux + the app, it just seems that is the minimum to me. |
| 16:34.11 | diana | TomW > i will try and i will tell you |
| 16:34.20 | TomW | nod |
| 16:35.06 | TomW | diana: I mainly do ARM work now, I did design a couple of MC68EZ328 systems that ran uClinux. Now all I do is ARM + linux. |
| 16:36.23 | TomW | CosmicPenguin: you have to admit, if you need a throw-away domain name, what could be better than wankerbox? |
| 16:37.28 | TomW | CosmicPenguin: you might even get that huge following of interest, although I don't know if you would appreciate some of the people that would visit your site based upon its' name? |
| 16:38.06 | TomW | shux, I've got to get to work.. |
| 16:38.43 | CosmicPenguin | He ain't lying |
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| 17:25.09 | Russ | CosmicPenguin: ask andersee for webspace |
| 17:25.19 | Russ | CosmicPenguin: he has all that set up |
| 17:25.24 | CosmicPenguin | Russ: mysql too? |
| 17:25.33 | Russ | oh, I don't know |
| 17:25.47 | CosmicPenguin | Probably |
| 17:26.11 | CosmicPenguin | My biggest worry with andersee is I don't want him to have to take on too much liability |
| 17:26.33 | Russ | then be a comaintainer |
| 17:27.15 | CosmicPenguin | I guess I'm just being indesisive - I need to sack up and get into the game instead of whining on the sidelines |
| 18:46.59 | TomW`work | CosmicPenguin: so, what kind of liability are you talking about? Getting sued or getting besmirched by association with a fork? |
| 18:48.07 | CosmicPenguin | TomW`work: Something along those lines |
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| 20:56.56 | CosmicPenguin | The wandering poet has returned |
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| 23:53.45 | kergoth | CosmicPenguin: you know a linux term emulator w/ serial support that doesnt suck? |
| 23:53.57 | kergoth | and dont say uucp, or i'll shoot you |
| 23:53.59 | kergoth | :) |
| 23:57.34 | Russ | if I say minicom, do I get stabbed? |
| 23:58.25 | Russ | seyon? |
| 23:58.36 | kergoth | ugh, dont start me on minicom :) |
| 23:58.39 | file[wifi] | ...toast? |