irclog2html for #elinux on 20021230

01:33.18*** join/#elinux GPSFan_ (~kenm@65.114.238.130)
01:52.12*** join/#elinux boss (~boss@flu11888-1.gw.connect.com.au)
02:02.17CosmicPenguinwhats the good word folks?
02:18.27sorphinCosmicPenguin: yo
02:19.37CosmicPenguinsorphin: yo back
02:20.08sjhill*yawn*
02:20.24sjhillibot: ~fishslap sorphin
02:20.26sjhill: I give up, what is it?
02:20.34sjhillibot: fishslap sorphin
02:20.37ACTION slaps sorphin up side the head with a wet fish.
02:20.37sorphin~lart sjhill
02:20.49sorphinCosmicPenguin: saw my comment that the dvd works fine ?
02:21.40CosmicPenguinsorphin: no, it got lost in the noice.  But thats good news
02:22.05sorphinsjhill: why? you need to get a grip? :P
02:22.12sjhill:P
02:22.25sjhilli can't grip to rip tracks from my scsi dvd/cd rom
02:22.46sorphinCosmicPenguin: yup, need to use ProDVD tho, since dvdrecord can't recognize the dvd media (none that i have), and i can't find the right values to shove into the table
02:23.01sorphinsjhill: awww.. poor baby :P
02:23.24sjhillsorphin: i'm only tolerating you because you're copying discs for me :-P
02:23.52sorphinheh
02:23.56sorphintolerating me eh?
02:24.05sjhillheh
02:24.23sorphinsjhill: you don't wanna start ;)
02:24.53sjhilllol
02:25.50sorphinwell, that's not the way to get it ;)
02:26.28sorphinCosmicPenguin: anyways, other than that, works like a charm :) so that's one nail in sjhill's^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hour dvd writing coffin
02:26.50CosmicPenguinsorphin: good deal... I'm sure you wrote it all up so I just have to follow the steps, right?  ;)
02:27.21sorphinCosmicPenguin: it's exactly what's on that one dvd writing page we looked at
02:27.34CosmicPenguinsorphin: ahh - thats good
02:27.46sorphinjust get cdrtools-2.0, and cdrecord-ProDVD (and it's wrapper script)
02:27.48sorphinand you're good
02:28.09sorphindoing the obvious substitution in steps ;)
02:32.34CosmicPenguinbrb - gotta reboot
02:42.17*** join/#elinux CosmicPenguin (~jordanc@12-255-37-66.client.attbi.com)
02:42.31sorphinCosmicPenguin: re
02:42.39CosmicPenguinsorphin: thx
02:42.49CosmicPenguinsorphin: 2.4.21-pre2 - lets hope its better
02:43.10sorphinhehe
03:00.55*** part/#elinux boss (~boss@flu11888-1.gw.connect.com.au)
04:08.18*** join/#elinux scanline (~micah@0-1pool16-145.nas1.monroe2.la.us.da.qwest.net)
04:50.29sorphinoh good grief
04:50.37sorphinand the OOM steps in
04:58.41CosmicPenguinsorphin: doh
04:59.57CosmicPenguinsorphin: you don't leave swap on, normally?
05:00.07sorphinon a machine w/ 1.5G of mem?
05:00.26sorphini usually forget
05:00.33sorphincuz i rarely need it
05:22.48CosmicPenguinAnyone have an EEPROM burner they want to sell?
05:23.06sorphinnope
05:23.20sorphinCosmicPenguin: what'd you break? ;)
05:23.59CosmicPenguinsorphin: Nothing - I just might have reason to burn an chip or two in the next few months, and I want to be prepared
05:24.40sorphinoh?
05:29.10CosmicPenguinactually, now that I think about it, it probably won't be EEPROM
05:29.19*** join/#elinux BZFlag (timr@216.190.31.164.yoda.infowest.net)
05:29.49*** mode/#eLinux [+o BZFlag] by ChanServ
05:38.16sorphinBZFlag: evening mr flag *grin*
05:40.07BZFlagheya. on vacation. dialup sux. ;-)
05:41.37sorphinwhere you at ?
05:42.24sorphinheh
05:42.28sorphinnot here obviously ;)
05:43.16CosmicPenguinThe company owning the IP address was based in Washington
05:44.31sorphinCosmicPenguin: maybe he's visiting his "uncle bill" :P
05:52.39CosmicPenguinsorphin: yeah, that would be funny
05:53.23CosmicPenguinsorphin: this is where we discover that Tim is actually a Microsoft operative that has infilrated the inner circles of Linux development
06:16.22CosmicPenguinsorphin: I dunno, but I always find that sleep cures everything
06:16.25CosmicPenguinsee ya
08:58.09*** join/#elinux ade|lite (~adrian@modem-1255.giraffe.dialup.pol.co.uk)
08:59.18ade|litelo folks
11:18.39*** join/#elinux miniPanda (~minipanda@211.154.175.2)
11:19.05miniPandahi! ;->
12:12.03*** join/#elinux file[bed] (jwired@mctn1-3881.nb.aliant.net)
15:02.25*** join/#elinux prpplague (~JoeBob1@12.148.134.9)
15:11.09*** join/#elinux GPSFan (~kenm@65.114.238.130)
15:11.21sorphinmornin ken,davey
15:11.34GPSFanHowdy,
15:11.47sorphinGPSFan: anymore webpal news ?
15:12.35kergothhey dan, dave, etc
15:12.44GPSFansorphin: got my kernel rebuilt, uptime 1 day 15 hrs.
15:12.48sorphinmorning chris
15:13.01sorphinGPSFan: cool
15:13.12sorphinGPSFan: once my maxim samples show up, i'll be on your track too
15:13.25GPSFan:>)
15:14.15*** part/#elinux miniPanda (~minipanda@211.154.175.2)
15:14.27prpplaguenothing new on my end
15:14.59prpplaguei spent the weekend building and testing my ttl-232 adapte
15:15.00sorphinprpplague: ya, excessive beer consumption isn't new for you ;)
15:15.03GPSFanonce my cf adapters arrive I'll have a solid state unit. I did get it ti boot of cf already, just a kludge hookup.
15:15.26*** join/#elinux sieve (~sieve@12.148.134.9)
15:15.55prpplagueGPSFan: ya i took the dremel to the front plate and fixed the smart card slot so i can use the cf-adapter there instead
15:16.21GPSFanprpplague: that's where I will put mine.
15:16.23sorphinsieve: and there's the other abcsinc drone ;)
15:16.23prpplagueGPSFan: from what i tell, probably the best way to do this is drill some holes in the pcb for mounting
15:16.51prpplagueGPSFan: then mount the cf slot using some teflon spacers
15:16.52sievesorphin: bleh...
15:16.53GPSFanprpplague: just don't short the VCC & GND planes
15:17.00prpplagueright
15:17.33prpplagueGPSFan: when i try this i'll take some meter readings before and after
15:18.16GPSFanprpplague: good idea, using plastic screws may help too.
15:18.20*** join/#elinux Morn (~julie@ultrasparc.ipv6.magenet.com)
15:18.30sorphinMorn: re
15:18.46Mornre's
15:21.39GPSFanprpplague: there is a new kernel patch, fixing some keycode issues with the wireless KB. http://www.luban.org/Webpal/
15:22.30CosmicPenguinIts good to be back
15:22.55fileI concur
15:23.06sorphinCosmicPenguin: morning mr pixil
15:31.15CosmicPenguinsorphin: morning to you too
15:31.22CosmicPenguinsorphin: any news?
15:38.13sorphinCosmicPenguin: about ?
15:38.30CosmicPenguinsorphin: anything, I guess...
15:38.41CosmicPenguinsorphin: since you're always here, you know about everything before I do.. :)
15:38.50sorphinCosmicPenguin: not really, well, not yet anyways
15:39.40sorphinCosmicPenguin: heh, i dunno about always here, i was off visiting someone all saturday and then sunday morning :P
15:42.52sorphindon't think i've ever read phrack
15:42.59prpplagueGPSFan: i think i'm gonna try build a cs8900 isa card for one my wp's
15:53.20CosmicPenguinprpplague: its PITA time... :)
15:59.34prpplagueCosmicPenguin: PITA?
16:00.13CosmicPenguinPain In The Ass
16:00.18CosmicPenguinYou know what I mean... :)
16:19.58GPSFanprpplague: that sounds like a lot of work. why not just one of the $5 ones?
16:21.33prpplagueGPSFan: hmmmmmmmmm, lets see, buy $5 card learn nothing, buy $100 learn alot
16:21.59prpplagueGPSFan: $100 and a weekend seems alot better than a semester class with a boring professor
16:25.15CosmicPenguinheh.... making a new operating system seems like a lot of work, why not just use one of $100 dollar ones?
16:25.31CosmicPenguin"Because I gotta... mister!"
16:26.02sorphinGPSFan: designing your own ether board is a definate learning experience, you know that:P
16:26.59prpplaguesorphin: from what i can tell with the cs8900a should be pretty easy
16:27.10prpplaguesorphin: i got some sample chips coming in
16:27.12sorphinprpplague: even still
16:28.02GPSFansorphin: oh, H can't agree more, but having a working nic is a useful tool in that process. The timing on the isa bus for the wp is probably different from the SA1110, if I were going to build one, the hack kit would be my target.
16:28.49sorphinGPSFan: well, seeing as it's using a bog standard ISA modem
16:29.15sorphinGPSFan: any isa timing shouldn't be too bad
16:29.36prpplagueGPSFan: from the several usages i looked at, sa-1110 boards interfacing to cs8900a are simulating an isa bus
16:30.22prpplagueGPSFan: should be able to test some things on the webpal first and when i get the next set of hack kit boards continue with the dev
16:31.02GPSFanprpplague: then by all means go for the wp as a target, get a isa prpto board and have at it. btw what will you use for a MAC address?
16:31.40prpplagueGPSFan: lol, got some old nics, just use one of them
16:31.59prpplagueGPSFan: just gotta make sure i destroy the card so it won't ever be used
16:32.13sorphinprpplague: paranoid :P
16:33.44prpplagueGPSFan: erikm was trying to get a mac range for the lart board, but they wanted a small fortune
16:45.25GPSFanprpplague: you ever used gdb on a tux, or other arm platform remotely?
16:45.45sorphinGPSFan: you mean like the Ceiva maybe? ;)
16:46.29GPSFanI'm looking for a binary of gdbserver, but don't particularly want to build it form sources.
16:48.22prpplagueGPSFan: sorry, no, i've always used jtag for flashing and such
16:49.27GPSFank, I'm trying to debug a program that I have working on my x86 linux box and want to run on my WP. It cross compiled ok, but gives real funny results when run on the WP.
16:55.09prpplagueGPSFan: hmm
16:56.03GPSFanprpplague: I'm sure it is my lousy programming skills (rocks can code better than I).
16:56.14prpplagueGPSFan: same here
16:56.49GPSFanI guess I'll cross build it form source, I just didn't want too many variables going crazy at once.
17:04.47sorphinprpplague: um.. didn't you use gdb for the ceiva ?
17:05.15prpplaguesorphin: naw, not me
17:05.29prpplaguesorphin: someone else mentioned doing that
17:05.39sorphinprpplague: ah
17:06.26sorphinman
17:06.30sorphinit's 63F out
17:08.30prpplaguesorphin: ha got you beat, its 74F here
17:08.40sorphinprpplague: umm
17:08.50sorphinprpplague: i was pointing out how unseasonable it is here atm :P
17:09.08sorphin65F is late Dec.. is *very* not normal
17:09.12sorphins/is/in/
17:09.23sorphin(i said 65, cuz it just went up)
17:09.28prpplaguesorphin: ya well, if i give you the ip of a server will r00t it so i can go fix it?
17:10.14sorphinprpplague: um.. i'm not a script kiddie, that's f1l3
17:24.16sorphinprpplague: besides, he's your boy, you could prolly get him to do anything :P
17:33.27prpplaguesorphin: not mine
17:33.58sorphinprpplague: whatever
17:34.04sorphinprpplague: you know you're his hero ;p
17:34.45prpplaguelol, why because i drink beer and hang out at the nudie bar?
17:35.29sorphinprolly
17:35.39sorphinand cuz you have all this free hardware he can't get *grin*
17:35.53prpplaguelol
18:01.43Russ|werkummm...its 46F here, does that count for anything?
18:09.41sorphinRuss|werk: that's more what it should be here or abouts
18:12.16Russ|werkat least its not as could as it could be, in the upper teens
18:12.35Russ|werks/could/cold/
18:14.07sorphinindeed
18:14.56kergothanyone know, how, from a function, to dump the stack contents in the linux kernel? I need a fucking call trace at a certain point
18:15.36sorphinnope
18:15.52Lethaleach architecture has methods for dumping the stack
18:15.54Lethallook at traps.c
18:16.02Lethalyou can get a call trace from that just fine
18:16.32Lethaltho you might have to unstatic it :P
18:16.53kergothLethal: ah, thanks
18:17.18Lethalshow_trace_task()/show_task() is usually what you want
18:19.39Lethaldump_stack() if you don't care about the task struct pointer :P
18:20.16kergothLethal: thanks :)
18:25.26kergoth;)
18:25.31sorphinhehe
18:25.55Lethalkergoth, physically indexed / physically tagged L1
18:26.10sorphinkergoth: i think he's been hitting the bong this morning ;p
18:26.15Lethalkergoth, with bus snooping it'll trigger a write-back or invalidate when you prepare to do DMA
18:26.29Lethalkergoth, without it, you have to implicitly do the stuff by hand before DMA
18:26.34Lethalutterly useless
18:27.21Lethalwell, you can just do an all-out flush, or you can check your dma direction and save a few cycles :P
18:27.36Lethalwhich is what we do in sh for pci dma on noncoherent l1
18:27.46Lethalor at least we will when I commit it..
18:28.22Lethalsorphin, embedded linux kernel hacking :P
18:28.40sorphinah
18:28.47sorphinin other words, nothing fancy :P
18:29.01sorphinkergoth: no one in here understands lethal ;p
18:29.18Lethalandersee and bzflag probably do :P
18:29.24Lethalsjhill too :P
18:29.35Lethalno idea about the rest of you crazy arm folk :P
18:29.45Russ|werkI think I know what he is saying...why flush all the cache if you only need to flush half (or none)
18:29.45sorphinandersee works for himself
18:29.50sorphinbzflag is just insane
18:29.55kergothLethal: any resource/book recommendations? ;)
18:29.56sorphinand sjhill
18:30.09sorphinsjhill is a lost cause, after all, he likes MIPS
18:30.09Russ|werkkergoth: my guess? the sh manual
18:30.54LethalRuss|werk, essentially. its dma direction. if you do dma to the device, you just invalidate the dcache. if its from the device, writeback. if its bi-directional, flush. otherwise, BUG() :P
18:31.15Russ|werkthats what I figured
18:31.30Russ|werkI don't see why a read is a BUG()
18:31.30Lethalif your cache does bus snooping, it does it automagically for you
18:31.57LethalRuss|werk, its not a read, its if your doing dma that's not to the device, from the device, or bidirectional. since that's a new dma direction
18:32.02Russ|werkmake[3]: *** No rule to make target `/usr/src/linux-timmy/include/asm-ia64/efi.h', needed by `efi.h'.  Stop.
18:32.03Russ|werkgrr....
18:32.07Lethalif you read, it counts as _from_ the device ;P
18:32.32Russ|werkerr...make mrproper prolly
18:33.33Lethalkergoth, my two personal favorites are see mips run and unix systems for modern architectures: symmetric multiprocessing and caching for kernel programmers
18:34.03kergothLethal: thank you
18:36.35sorphinok, who here's an ide guru (esp in proc stuff)
18:38.30sorphinCosmicPenguin: has nothing to do w/ the ide bug, etc
18:39.32sorphinCosmicPenguin: btw.. seems the dvd+rw-tools now support -r/rw too (and might give cdrecord-prodvd a run
18:39.39sorphinCosmicPenguin: http://fy.chalmers.se/~appro/linux/DVD+RW/-RW/
18:41.06CosmicPenguinsorphin: good news
18:41.11CosmicPenguinsorphin: I love it when new DVD tools come out
18:41.34sorphinnow if only someone would port ifoedit :P
18:41.52sorphinifogen is nice, but doesn't allow the fancyness of ifoedit
18:43.19Lethalifo?
18:44.13sorphinLethal: dvd talk
18:44.27Lethalah
18:44.41Lethalpast mpeg2/css I'm lost :P
18:45.10Lethalif the dvd is shiny and works, good enough for me ;P
18:45.19sorphinooooooooo.. shiney
18:45.31Lethalindeed, its like built-in marketing appeal
18:45.46sorphineveryone likes shineys ;)
18:46.17Lethalbesides, embedded cpu talk is easy to parse. the rest of your crazy stuff isn't, I have yet to figure out wtf a tsop is :P
18:46.26sorphinhaha
18:46.32sorphinsurface mount
18:46.58Lethalyeah, they both have an s in them, I see the similarities already :P
18:47.05sorphinLethal: Thin Small Outline Package
18:47.06Russ|werkLethal: the if you know the low level software stuff, the hardware is pretty easry
18:47.12sorphin:P
18:47.16sorphinnow you know
18:47.17Russ|werkor a TTSOP
18:47.21Lethalah
18:47.31LethalRuss|werk, I suppose it probably is, I just haven't had any reason to learn any of it
18:47.37Russ|werka number suffix of course means the number of pins
18:48.34sorphinLethal: you can also be like ken and make a DIP a TSOP ;)
18:48.41Russ|werkand as someone who's worked with a lot of low level software, you are less inclined to make the mistakes that many ee's make
18:49.13Lethalthe closest i've gotten to any of that stuff was fpga hacking, which in itself was pretty fun
18:49.24sorphinfpga's are neat toys
18:49.29Lethalexcept the customers engineers kept smoking crack and reimplementing the ISA on a bi-weekly basis
18:50.24Lethalyeah, they're pretty cool
18:50.37Lethaleverything goes to hell the minute you try and get silicon running tho ;P
18:51.07sorphinLethal: only if you're due for a severe beating w/ the cluebat
18:51.22CosmicPenguinmmmm... cluebat
18:51.25Lethalhmm.. hitachi and ST .. probably long overdue :P
18:51.43sorphinLethal: now now
18:51.51sorphinLethal: the SH4 is a nice proc
18:51.55Lethalyeah
18:51.59LethalSH4 is okay
18:52.04LethalI'm talking about SH5
18:52.28sorphinand as for ST.....
18:52.31sorphin........
18:53.07LethalI'm still waiting for them to get the SH8000/ST50 to a point where they can produce more then 5 boards a year :P
18:53.27Lethalthat work :P
18:53.50sorphinheh
18:53.57Lethallast time they tried, 1 out of 10 worked to some degree
18:54.00Lethalnot impressive stats :P
18:54.04sorphinLethal: 2 words (which i've seemed to have to use frequently lately)
18:54.08sorphinLethal: pipe dream
18:54.24Lethalindeed, which is why I'm porting to the gdb simulator instead :P
18:55.02Lethalthey haven't even pondered smp yet, which is amazing, since sh2 and sh3 allowed for it
18:55.33Lethaland smp sh2 is just uncalled for
18:56.14Lethalat least with the sh5, it could actually be useful :P
18:56.38Lethalunfortunately sh2 is the only sh smp I have to work with, despite it having no mmu
18:57.09Lethal512-proc sh7 configurations are a ways off :P
18:58.06Russ|werksmp with no mmu?
18:58.09Lethalyeah
18:58.14Lethalit sucks
18:58.16Lethalvigorously
18:58.29sorphinlethal is a masochist
18:58.36Lethalalthough on the plus side, context switches are faster.. ;P
18:59.06Russ|werkhow does forking new processes work on an mmuless system
19:00.35Lethalforking isn't an issue, its paging that is. I haven't had to do anything special for fork yet.
19:00.58Lethalalthough my init is doing weird things, so who knows ;P
19:01.07Russ|werkI thought fork() didn't work on uclinux
19:01.38LethalI'm not sure about that, I don't have userland up yet. but I can manually start something w/ do_fork()
19:02.55Lethalthe uclinux mips port does fork fine as well, as far as I can tell. m68k looks like the only one with an issue.
19:03.14Lethaldunno
19:03.51Lethalmost of the issues I've run into so far have been paging, virt to phys stuff, page table references, etc.
19:04.47Lethalon my second processor it jumps into its entry point where do_fork() is invoked by hand for the init task, and all that works fine.
19:04.55Lethalregardless of an mmu being present or not
19:07.33Lethali've never done an mmuless port before though, so its entirely possible I'm smoking crack
19:08.54LethalI suppose there could be some CLONE_VM issues
19:08.59Lethalnot sure though
19:11.07Lethaloh, I see, uclinux doesn't do fork(), but it does vfork()
19:16.08*** join/#elinux Russ|werk (user@wsip68-98-222-194.ph.ph.cox.net)
19:20.21prpplaguesorphin: box? to live in?
19:20.52sorphinprpplague: no
19:21.00sorphin'you know what i mean :P
19:21.09Lethalsorphin, build an smp sh2!@# :P
19:21.15sorphinumm
19:21.16sorphinno
19:21.33Lethalsorphin, come on, its even got 2M of discontig memory. you know you want it ;P
19:21.47Lethaloh, you wanted something useful
19:21.49Lethalnm then
19:21.49Lethal:P
19:22.17sorphinmy dual PPro box, because it's a peecee, isn't very useful as SMP, while the sparc20, somewhat is..
19:22.31sorphinmy current fastest box is my 1ghz athlon.. want faster
19:22.39Russ|werkI have a dual ppc cpu board with mainboard, its not apple
19:22.39Lethalsmp athlon isn't bad for a workstation
19:22.43sorphinbut w/ amd's new naming crap
19:22.45kergothLethal: question, how do i obtain the current struct pt_regs to pass to the function which dumps a backtrace?
19:22.48Russ|werkalso, a dual ppro board, but no memory
19:23.06sorphinRuss|werk: eh ?
19:23.20Russ|werkit requires buffered EDO 168pin memory
19:23.24sorphini know
19:23.37Russ|werkdifficult to track down for what I'm willing to pay for it
19:23.49sorphinRuss|werk: i'm using a Providence board :P
19:24.13sorphinRuss|werk: paid about 300 or there abouts i think for the mem
19:24.32Russ|werkya, I'm not willing to pay $300 to get a dual ppro 180 working-
19:25.37sorphinthis was a few years ago anyways
19:27.11sorphinanyhoo
19:27.20sorphinlooking for suggestions (real ones, prpplague :P )
19:29.47Lethalkergoth, you can get it at do_fork() time, or you can try and typecast the stack pointer from the current thread context.
19:30.12kergothLethal: bah, figured. thanks
19:31.06sorphinkergoth: any suggestions from the digicorner? :P
19:31.28Lethalkergoth, if you have a show_task() or show_trace_task(), you can just hand it a task struct pointer..
19:31.35Lethalkergoth, it'll do all the magic for you
19:31.43kergothLethal: ah. thanks
19:32.16Lethalshow_task() takes the sp, show_trace_task() takes the tsk
19:32.27LethalI think its like that under 2.4 as well
19:40.59Russ|werkwtf was that changed for
19:41.28Russ|werk2.4.20-pre4->2.4.21-pre2 s/\/proc\/kmesg/\/proc\/kmsg/
19:42.41CosmicPenguinheh - from LKML:  When playing netris, the shapes fall a lot faster in 2.5.53-mm2 than in
19:42.41CosmicPenguin2.4.20 and in 2.5.53.
19:42.48CosmicPenguinNow thats a bug report
19:42.49Russ|werknm
19:43.31kergothhah
19:44.28CosmicPenguin"I can't frag as many people in 2.4.20 as in 2.4.19.  The kernel must be broken!
19:45.03sorphinCosmicPenguin: indeed
19:45.10*** join/#elinux sjhill (~NOYB@207-191-210-241.cpe.ats.mcleodusa.net)
19:45.23sorphinsjhill: no riffraff allowed in here
19:45.32Lethalsorphin, hypocrite :P
19:46.00sorphinLethal: i'm not riffraff, i don't worship MIPS :P
19:46.29LethalMIPS is fine. its not SH, but it's still a fun platform :P
19:46.38Lethalexcept for toshiba mips, thats just uncalled for.
19:46.48sorphinhehe
19:46.59*** join/#elinux TomW (tom@147seg-pc-1624-14.msns.str.ptd.net)
19:47.01sorphinLethal: mips is neat, i'll give it that
19:47.03sorphinTomW: wow
19:47.09sorphinTomW: you're still alive ;)
19:47.17TomWsorphin: you are fast on the trigger!
19:47.19sorphinTomW: you've missed all the webpal advances :P
19:47.20Lethalsorphin, yeah, but smp on r3k w/o ll/sc isn't :P
19:47.44TomWsorphin: got body-slammed by a Cold.
19:47.48sorphindoh
19:48.12sorphinTomW: mr gpsfan has been having all the fun, i'm waitin for my maxim samples to build my serial crap
19:48.20TomWheh
19:48.31CosmicPenguinBut then again, I'm a dork
19:48.40TomWCosmicPenguin: yeah, want one?
19:49.10CosmicPenguinTomW: sure - will it give me time off work?
19:49.13LethalCosmicPenguin, blindness is usually a large factor
19:49.23Lethalalthough there's plenty of blind kernel developers :P
19:49.25TomWCosmicPenguin: heh, yes it will!  :D
19:49.28CosmicPenguinLethal: too much moonshine?
19:49.31sorphinCosmicPenguin: you're the future pixil dork tho ;p
19:49.46CosmicPenguinTomW: and you still call it a "cold"?  Sounds like "flu" or "dysentery" is a better word for it.. :)
19:50.04TomWCosmicPenguin: I'll spit in a baggie and mail it to you, okay?
19:50.16TomWlol
19:50.27sorphinTomW: it'd be no comparison to what i live w/ every DAY Tom :P
19:50.32LethalCosmicPenguin, nah, but its the blind people that other people don't know are blind that are cool ;P
19:51.08TomWCosmicPenguin: ahhh...  come to think of it, that wouldn't be a smart thing to do, sending a virus in the mail.  Now would it?
19:51.25TomW:/
19:51.39LethalTomW, indeed. plus it hardly has any originality ;P
19:51.39CosmicPenguinTomW: just speak clearly into the microphone
19:51.41sorphinTomW: so :P
19:52.01sorphinCosmicPenguin: i cannot tell a lie, it was Jordan's fault.
19:52.36CosmicPenguinsorphin: maybe we can blame it on Morn - no sense in making a whole new FBI file just for little ol' me
19:52.58sorphinCosmicPenguin: you sure they don't already have one on you? ;)
19:53.24TomWCosmicPenguin: okay, you'll have to do it the American Way then.  Go out, kiss a bunch of Babes and see what you can contract.  :)
19:53.52CosmicPenguinsorphin:  I don't think the FBI even has an office in Wyoming
19:53.53TomWWhat? Is Morn awake?
19:54.19sorphinTomW: was 4 hours ago
19:54.45TomWsorphin: probably off doing what I should be doing: working.
19:54.58sorphindoubtful on both accounts ;p
20:00.14prpplagueTomW: hey
20:01.01prpplagueTomW: whats cookin with your webpal?
20:01.20sorphinprpplague: he's been slacking.. claims he's been sick ;p
20:02.40prpplagueya ya been out smokin crack again
20:02.48sorphinprpplague: when aren't you :P
20:02.52TomWprpplague: nothin', I got to get one together for my Mom to use so she can have something to use for email.  She is retiring in February and needs an email client.
20:03.02Russ|werkI was going to wait till the el-cheapo board house got back from the holiday break
20:03.47Russ|werkanyone happen to be coming out here for the fiesta bowl?
20:03.52prpplagueRuss|werk: is your design with the max232 or max233?
20:04.15Mornhi
20:04.17Russ|werk233 iirc, whatever it was, it was 5V, required two caps, and have 4 buffers
20:04.22MornSaw my name mentioned
20:04.24sorphinMorn: re
20:04.26Russ|werk(and was TSOP)
20:04.30sorphinMorn: yeah, CP was slandering
20:04.41Morndoh!
20:04.49sorphinRuss|werk: the 233 only has 1 cap, for +v/gnd bypass
20:05.01sorphinRuss|werk: the 232 uses external caps
20:05.07sorphinRuss|werk: it'd be better to use the 233
20:05.21Russ|werkdoes the 233 require -12V?
20:05.25sorphinno
20:05.39sorphinit's the 232 w/ internal caps is all
20:05.47sorphinlil bit longer
20:05.51sorphin20 pin instead of 16
20:07.22Russ|werkwhy so many pins?
20:07.26Russ|werkdie space?
20:07.32sorphini dunno
20:07.38CosmicPenguinprpplague: whats the news on the serial converter (you told me to ask you on Monday)
20:07.51sorphini know it has to do w/ the internal caps.. tying stuff together..
20:08.06sorphinRuss|werk: saves on caps either way
20:08.23Russ|werkbut probably not cost, and not very much board space...
20:08.37sorphinheh
20:08.40sorphinlike $1 more
20:08.51Russ|werkya, its $2 to $3 more
20:09.00Russ|werkwell, $1.50 more
20:09.05sorphinRuss|werk: you could also do like ken suggested and design around the 235 :P
20:09.12Russ|werkthe A is really expensive
20:09.13sorphinboth serial ports in 1 chip
20:09.26Russ|werkI don't see whats wrong with using the max232
20:09.46sorphinRuss|werk: your choice.. already making my own here
20:09.56Russ|werkor preferable the 232A
20:10.02Russ|werker
20:10.08Russ|werkI think I was thinking of the 231
20:10.16Russ|werkno
20:10.21Russ|werkdammit, now I'm confused
20:10.24sorphinhehe
20:10.31sorphinyou either want
20:10.34sorphinthe 232/233
20:10.37sorphinor the 235 :P
20:10.54Russ|werkthe 235 is a lot of board space
20:11.16sorphinumm
20:11.19sorphinit's both ports :P
20:11.27sorphinso that'd be why
20:11.34Russ|werkhmm...is the second port usable?
20:11.44sorphinyes
20:11.52CosmicPenguinRuss|werk: its tied to the IR / Smartcard, IIRC
20:11.58sorphinCosmicPenguin: yup
20:12.09Russ|werkso that'd be a no if you want to use the IR or smartcard
20:12.23sorphincorrect
20:12.34sorphinmost of these guys aren't gonna be using it
20:12.36sorphintho
20:12.44CosmicPenguinthe IR?  Are you kidding me?
20:13.20sorphinCosmicPenguin: you're not covered under most ;p
20:13.36CosmicPenguinsorphin: really, most of us *don't* want to use the IR?  May I ask why not?
20:14.14sorphindaveyboy didn't seem like he'd use it, seeing as both him and ken removed the atmel ;p
20:14.22Russ|werkI think with the smartcard reader, and the serial port, you can do a quick setup to get directtv
20:14.39sorphinROTFL
20:14.57Russ|werkwhat?
20:15.03Russ|werkI've seen a setup at someone's house
20:15.19CosmicPenguinRuss|werk: except for the whole digital reciever part
20:15.24sorphinRuss|werk: and you plan on handling the dvb signal with........
20:15.24Russ|werkthey have a directtv receiver, with a pcb inserted in the smartcard slot, and an ic on that pcb
20:15.26sorphinair ?
20:15.28Russ|werkthat goes to a comuter
20:15.32sorphinoh brother
20:15.35Russ|werker,computer's serial port
20:15.38sorphinRuss|werk: aka
20:15.43sorphinRuss|werk: an emulator
20:15.47Russ|werkthe other serial port then goes to a smartcard reader
20:15.54sorphinyou can do that w/ a 386 ;p
20:16.03sorphinthat's just an EMU
20:16.08Russ|werkya, but then you need a 386, a smartcard reader, etc
20:16.14sorphinand DOS
20:16.31Russ|werkbut with the webpal, you just need the webpal, and the little pcb smartcard thingy
20:16.31sorphinor a linux that can access it all :P
20:19.04Russ|werkfree payperview is pretty nifty
20:21.26sorphinanyways
20:22.21prpplagueCosmicPenguin: got mine built over the weekend
20:22.28prpplagueCosmicPenguin: not loaded anything yet
20:22.42prpplagueCosmicPenguin: gonna try to do that tonight as well as send some docs to ya
20:23.48CosmicPenguinprpplague: cool
20:23.48prpplaguesorphin: ya i removed the ir, and wired it to my cradle for my zaurus
20:24.25prpplaguesorphin: the keyboards are alot more enjoyable on the z
20:24.49sorphinprpplague: try that again ?
20:25.00prpplagueCosmicPenguin: i also took a dremel to the cover so i can mount the cf-2-ide on the front where the smart card slot was
20:25.05prpplaguesorphin: what?
20:25.05Russ|werkprpplague: the CIR components can be ordered from digikey...
20:25.22CosmicPenguinRuss|werk: thats exactly what I was thinking... hell, I even got one at RadioShit
20:25.23sorphinprpplague: you did WHAT w/ the ir stuff and the Z? :P
20:25.50prpplaguesorphin: de-soldered the ir module from the webpal, put the ir on a pcb and connected it to the z cradle
20:26.01CosmicPenguinprpplague: though I might remove the smart card and replace it with the CF like you did
20:26.05prpplaguesorphin: install some serial-2-kbd daemon
20:26.13prpplaguesorphin: use ir keyboard with z
20:26.18sorphinprpplague: weird
20:26.26prpplaguesorphin: why?
20:26.35sorphinprpplague: never though of that
20:27.07prpplagueCosmicPenguin: the big key is drilling the holes
20:27.23prpplagueCosmicPenguin: got to do some testing to make sure we don't short anything out
20:27.29sorphinprpplague: so, mr posstein.. how'd you wire it up? :P
20:28.25prpplaguesorphin: if you are lazy you can just buy one of the ast remote packages and use the ir receiver
20:29.03sjhillokay, enough of this....what is this webpal thingee?
20:29.18sorphinibot: webpal ?
20:29.20it has been said that webpal is a set top box appliance that can run Linux. see http://webpal.bigbrd.com/, or http://www.softwareandstuff.com/h_misc_webpal.html
20:29.24prpplaguesorphin: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3759&item=2083969919
20:29.27sorphinsjhill: there
20:29.34prpplaguesjhill: what you didn't get one?
20:29.50sorphinprpplague: course not, he's a mips whore
20:29.56TomWsjhill: http://www.softwareandstuff.com/h_misc_webpal.html
20:29.59prpplaguesorphin: thats the same remote as the one with the webpal
20:30.06sorphinTomW: i already had ibot tell him :P
20:30.13TomW:(
20:30.35sorphinprpplague: either way :P as i said, what about the cradle wiring ;p
20:31.04TomW:'(
20:31.19sorphinTomW: oh calm down already :P
20:31.26prpplaguesorphin: rx-rx tx-tx 5v-5v ground-ground
20:31.55sorphinprpplague: here i thought you couldn't wire serial direct to usb :P
20:31.56TomWprpplague is stuttering
20:32.09prpplaguesorphin: i used the schematic for the cradle on the faq which identifies the rs-232 signals
20:32.18sjhillhmmm, i assume better network connectivity has been solved?
20:32.24prpplaguesorphin: the cradle has all the sharp-io available just not wired
20:32.37sorphinprpplague: ah
20:32.54sorphinsjhill: yeah, built/buy a cs8900? card
20:33.02sorphinprpplague: where's this schem?
20:33.11prpplaguefor the cradle?
20:33.15sorphinindeed
20:33.18sjhillk
20:33.35prpplaguesorphin: dont have the url, but its on one of the faq pages
20:33.42sorphinbah
20:34.04prpplaguesorphin: nope, its on the sharp dev site
20:34.22sorphinprpplague: sharp's actual dev site, or one of the spinoffs?
20:34.32prpplaguesorphin: sharps actual dev site
20:34.40sorphinprpplague: k
20:35.22prpplagueRuss|werk: making any progress on those cards?
20:35.33Russ|werkprpplague: the board house doesn't reopen till the 7th
20:36.19prpplagueRuss|werk: sorry, i mean the pc/104 stuff
20:36.27Russ|werkoh, they work rather well
20:36.39prpplagueRuss|werk: this was suppose to have been the tcsx-2 - http://www.abcsinc.com/tcsx1/top-pcmcia.jpg
20:36.40Russ|werkI haven't had a chance to switch everything over to pppoe yet
20:37.00Russ|werknice case
20:37.01sorphinya know
20:37.06sorphini HATE sites w/ flash, etc
20:37.12Russ|werkwho bent it?
20:37.20Russ|werk(and stamped)
20:37.38prpplagueRuss|werk: probably some tawanies slave kids
20:38.09Russ|werkah
20:38.27prpplagueRuss|werk: we had 10 made, never went into production :(
20:38.34sorphinprpplague: "supposed to have been" ?
20:38.39sorphinwhy not ?
20:39.02sorphinok
20:39.05sorphinthis is gonna annoy me
20:39.17Russ|werkpc104 stuff is generally too expensive to go into production like that
20:39.24Russ|werknow the new via boards, those are really cool
20:39.30sorphinEnroll in the Developer Program.
20:39.44Russ|werkprpplague: have you checked out the via mini-itx boards?
20:39.55prpplagueRuss|werk: ya we have a couple in for testing
20:40.12prpplagueRuss|werk: are suppose to get one of the ones in that has 3 nics include a gb
20:40.23Russ|werkprpplague: they are pretty cheap, I installed one for someone
20:43.45Russ|werkusing winblows?
20:43.57prpplagueRuss|werk: http://www.beldynsys.com/k900.htm
20:44.04sorphinyse, but it started grinding at sharp's "new" dev site
20:48.22Russ|werkprpplague: how much?
20:48.57prpplagueRuss|werk: expensive, $50 per board
20:49.28prpplagueRuss|werk: or $195 for the 5 board kit
20:49.29CosmicPenguinprpplague: we're trying to get some Via Epias on site, but Via won't answer our phone calls
20:50.22Russ|werkprpplague: I can custom make boards for cheaper
20:50.33Russ|werkCosmicPenguin: I have a site to order them from
20:50.36Russ|werkCosmicPenguin: one sec
20:50.50prpplagueRuss|werk: every the prototype board?
20:50.56prpplagues/every/even
20:51.07Russ|werkhttp://idot.com/
20:51.15Russ|werkprpplague: $26 for a two sided board
20:51.33prpplagueRuss|werk: expresspcb?
20:51.46Russ|werkhttp://www.olimex.com/pcb/
20:52.03Russ|werk6.3x3.9
20:52.25Russ|werk$104 for 12.6x7.8
20:52.36Russ|werksubsequent orders of the same panel are cheaper
20:53.07Russ|werkCosmicPenguin: click where it says "mini itx, click here"
20:53.52prpplagueRuss|werk: but you have to do the tricks to make them thinks it's a single board right?
20:54.03Russ|werkprpplague: this place does free panelization
20:54.17Russ|werkso however many of what you are making will fit in a panel, its $26
20:56.44prpplagueRuss|werk: hmm, i realllllly need to try doing this ordering pcb's
20:57.13CosmicPenguinRuss|werk: sweet.  Now, if we could just get quantity numbers from Via, we would be set
20:57.21Russ|werkprpplague: I'm going to order some boards for jtag, rs232, and shanip when they reopen
20:57.48Russ|werkprpplague: I'll see what their prices are to populate the components too
20:57.54prpplagueRuss|werk: you submit as gerber files right?
20:58.19Russ|werkprpplague: right, I sent an email asking if I send them the routing layer, or if they do that
20:58.33Russ|werkbut they probably won't get back to me for another week and a half
20:58.44prpplagueRuss|werk: where are they out of?
20:59.38Russ|werksome european republic or something, lemme check
21:00.10Russ|werkbulgaria
21:01.10Russ|werkI'm thinking assembly will cost extra because it would require a solder paste mask
21:02.42Russ|werk(er, not just cost extra, but cost quite a bit more than just the components)
21:02.42prpplagueany concern about customs?
21:03.01Russ|werkthe US doesn't have customs charges on that sort of thing afaik
21:03.23Russ|werk'PCB from Bulgarian origin have 0% import tax when enter in Europe, CEFTA, USA and Turkey. Please check with your local customs for the import tax if your country doesn't belong to the quoted above.'
21:03.52prpplagueRuss|werk: ahh ok good, we occasionally have problems on some pcbs
21:04.26Russ|werkyou can't send them just any board though, they have about 10 drill sizes, and an 8mil tolerance
21:04.48prpplagueRuss|werk: i'm gonna need some pcbs for the hack kit
21:04.59Russ|werkmake that 8 drill size-s
21:05.04prpplagueRuss|werk: i'll see how your stuff works out
21:05.10Russ|werkthe smallest being 28
21:05.49Russ|werkdelivery time is significantly shorter if you specify a tolerance of 10mil
21:06.15Russ|werkyou can add a drill size for a buck
21:06.29prpplagueRuss|werk: your buddies in az can't do a cheap job?
21:06.45Russ|werkthey don't make pcbs, they send out for thaht
21:08.03prpplagueRuss|werk: ? i thought they did, are they just an assembly house?
21:08.12Russ|werkya, they just assemble
21:08.28Russ|werkI don't know if anyone does pcb's and assembly in the same building
21:08.44Russ|werkI seriously doubt it due to the nature of pcb "creation"
21:09.35Russ|werkI'd be similarly surprised if the photoplates and the etching were done in the same building
21:10.42ds-workmost one-off shops use PCB printers
21:12.50prpplagueRuss|werk: that shop is names triad right?
21:15.57Russ|werkright
21:16.22Russ|werkoh geez, this site I went to to get tickets to the fiesta bowl block party, their calendar and schedule, it flashes...
21:16.27Russ|werkhttp://www.tempe.gov/escalante/
21:16.36Russ|werkhas to be the worst web design I have ever seen
21:17.21prpplagueRuss|werk: hmm, guess you've not visited our company web site :)
21:18.27TomWRuss|werk: you talking about the "calendar of events" at the bottom of that page?
21:18.28CosmicPenguinhmmm... fiesta bowl block party
21:18.42CosmicPenguinThat has potential of possibly being fun... :-)
21:19.00Russ|werkTomW: yes, and also the table layout of the page really sucks
21:19.20Russ|werkCosmicPenguin: ya, and it will be a blast this year being that its the national championship
21:19.28TomWRuss|werk: table layout sux, but it doesn't flash under Mozilla.
21:19.48CosmicPenguinRuss|werk: no dobut, except for all of the Miami fans hanging around
21:20.12Russ|werkTomW: probably some errant >
21:20.22TomWI want to attend the "Tie Dye Extravaganza"
21:20.34TomWheh
21:21.08Russ|werkCosmicPenguin: being that I live about a mile from where the party, I'll show up
21:21.29CosmicPenguinRuss|werk: yep, and bring your beer money too
21:21.41Russ|werkya, they have the beer gardens, quite a few of them
21:24.31Russ|werkgeez, I hate that, my packet monitor is going ape
21:24.47Russ|werkthe cox network is so broken, and I'm getting 20 dhcp broadcasts a second right now
21:26.05prpplagueRuss|werk: as well as cablynx, we have all kinds of winblows pc's on the network creating all kinds of traffic
21:26.38Russ|werkprpplague: the bizzare thing is, its from a 10.x address
21:26.55Russ|werkhttp://www.tostitosfiestabowl.com/images/indexpages/Bubble%20map123402.pdf
21:29.12Russ|werkhmm...the band list isn't that great..."zowie bowie", "dr ruth band" (whoever the hell that is), and "the go-go's"
21:34.12prpplagueRuss|werk: someone with a dual nic
21:34.38Russ|werkprpplague: I think its broken dhcp servers, because I've gotten a 10.x address before
21:34.49Russ|werkand it was impossible to then get  real address without replacing the NIC
21:36.24prpplagueRuss|werk: ahh you know what it is, when you don't pay your bill they dchp you to a non-internet network
21:36.35prpplagueRuss|werk: that way you can still get online to pay your bill
21:36.52Russ|werknope
21:38.35Russ|werkits something different
21:38.35Russ|werkand when you try to talk to support about it, they are clueless
21:39.28prpplaguehmm
21:44.55prpplagueyeah, just installed j2re plugin, now mozilla crashes
21:45.36prpplaguelovely
22:01.50prpplagueTomW: this stuff might be fun - http://www.advancedinterconnections.com/bgastart.html
22:05.32prpplagueha, word is that riaa.org has been hax0red
22:09.19Russ|werkdoesn't look hax0red
22:09.48Russ|werkhttp://riaa.org/PR_story.cfm?id=598 <- lame
22:10.23Russ|werkwow, if we turn the little switch for the internet to the off position, warezing stops
22:10.59Lethalthats not bad, the CVS webpage was hacked for about 2-3 months before people started complaining about the free porn :P
22:12.56CosmicPenguinInteresting.... riaa.org resolves, but www.riaa.org does not
22:13.05Russ|werkI was just trying to figure out in my head why more book piracy didn't happen, being that everyone has printers, and printing presses are everywhere
22:13.26Russ|werkthen I realized, that books a generally sold close to the cost of production
22:13.27LethalCosmicPenguin, you said that just as I was wondering why it wasn't connecting ;P
22:13.56Russ|werkas apposed to cd's, which are sold at probably 2000% above the cost of production
22:15.15LethalRuss|werk, not worth it, paper + toner costs exceeds half your book costs, others you can just read in pdf ;P
22:17.00prpplagueRuss|werk: did you make your pcb's with eagle?
22:17.09Russ|werkno, harry eaton's pcb
22:18.08prpplagueRuss|werk: ahh
22:18.42prpplagueRuss|werk: granted, i'm a newbie at doing pcb layouts, but i find eagle alot more usable
22:19.46Russ|werkI haven't used it
22:19.50Russ|werkany insight as to why?
22:21.51prpplagueRuss|werk: ease of the drag-n-drop schematics i guess
22:22.01prpplagueRuss|werk: i really should try pcb again
22:22.10Russ|werkwhat is a "drag-n-drop" schematic
22:26.33prpplagueRuss|werk: you d-n-d components on the blank sheet, and then you can click connection points and it moves everything around to best fit
22:26.49prpplagueRuss|werk: it also has a auto-route function
22:27.03Russ|werkah, I prefer manual routing
22:27.12prpplagueRuss|werk: you can do that as well
22:27.13Russ|werkI do the schematic in gschem
22:27.16Russ|werkload the netlist
22:27.23Russ|werkhave it draw all the ratnest lines
22:27.30Russ|werkmove and rotate stuff where I like it
22:27.33Russ|werkand then lay it out
22:28.11Russ|werkin that way, if I see X's in the ratnest, I can go back to gschem, see if those are lines that can be switched
22:28.14Russ|werkand then switch them
22:35.49prpplagueTomW: electrolytic caps under eagle?
22:49.27Russ|werkone of the things I like about pcb, I have code setup to quickly build components
22:49.31Russ|werk(in c)
22:50.00prpplagueRuss|werk: ya well your a c guru
22:51.27Russ|werkthe end result is pretty simple, its like using logo
22:56.32CosmicPenguinmmm.... logo
22:56.56CosmicPenguinOne time, I was gonna port logo to Microwindows, but I never got around to it
22:57.44Russ|werkpads_down(DIMA, 1, 10, 1); right(DIMC); pads_up(DIMA, 11, 20, 1);, etc
22:58.05Russ|werk(distance, start, end, increment)

Generated by irclog2html.pl by Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc.