| 00:01.19 | RobotGuy | I just added some pictures showing the new arm design. |
| 00:01.31 | g1powermac | man, this day just keeps getting worse. . . |
| 00:01.53 | RobotGuy | I'm just having a quiet day, not dealing with hardware. |
| 00:03.25 | RobotGuy | I do need to figure out if my server is alive or not, but it apparently won't boot with a PCI video card. |
| 00:04.02 | RobotGuy | It only has a 300W PSW, so I don't think it will handle my AGP video card. |
| 00:04.14 | RobotGuy | s/PSW/PSU |
| 00:09.08 | RobotGuy | I can't seem to find a manual for this MS-6308E motherboard. |
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| 02:22.49 | RobotGuy | ping |
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| 02:23.34 | prpplague | RobotGuy who are you ping'n? |
| 02:23.47 | RobotGuy | Anyone, to see who is here. |
| 02:24.24 | RobotGuy | I'm surprised to see you here still, on a Sunday. |
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| 02:26.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Have you looked at any of the new XMegas? |
| 02:27.49 | prpplague | no, url? |
| 02:28.46 | RobotGuy | http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/devices.asp?family_id=607#1965 |
| 02:29.08 | RobotGuy | I think these must be Atmel's answer to the PIC32. |
| 02:30.37 | prpplague | whats the difference between xmega and the standar mega |
| 02:32.03 | RobotGuy | I am not really sure yet, other than they seem to go from 128k Flash up to 512k. I just started looking at them. |
| 02:33.12 | RobotGuy | There's one 16k and one 64k version also. |
| 02:33.43 | RobotGuy | Correction, 3 64k parts |
| 02:34.49 | RobotGuy | Interesting, 12 bit ADCs and AES/DES hardware crypto. |
| 02:42.42 | RobotGuy | Oh, wow, 16 Meg address space. |
| 02:48.09 | RobotGuy | Where does Atmel hide the pinout diagrams? |
| 02:49.56 | RobotGuy | I think I was looking at the wrong manual. |
| 02:50.57 | RobotGuy | Oooooooooooooooooooooo, FIVE Uarts, one with IrDA. |
| 02:55.54 | RobotGuy | OMG, check out the ATxmega64a1 |
| 02:57.28 | RobotGuy | http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/product_card.asp?part_id=4297 |
| 03:00.31 | RobotGuy | Atmel is starting to get into ARM7 territory here. Now I am going to have to look at Atmel's ARM7 line up a bit closer. |
| 03:01.37 | solar | RobotGuy: in case you never saw it. http://www.avrtv.com/ |
| 03:01.54 | solar | most recent one covers the xmega |
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| 03:08.00 | Redhatter | That xmega chip looks great... |
| 03:08.27 | Redhatter | 2Msps ADC... wonder how well it could do basic DSP? |
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| 03:10.22 | RobotGuy | solar: Thanks. I missed that. |
| 03:10.50 | RobotGuy | Redhatter: Yes, the Xmega does look more interesting now. I like the A1 series with 8 uarts. |
| 03:13.16 | RobotGuy | Drats, I am not getting sound from those videos. |
| 03:21.15 | RobotGuy | If you are soldering, say, a TQFP64 package, does the entire chip need to be soldered in one sitting or can one take a break at intervals? |
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| 03:24.13 | RobotGuy | -sigh- I wish I could afford to go get a nice full meal. |
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| 06:02.47 | HcE | I think RobotGuy will have even wetter pants in Q4 ;) |
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| 07:05.41 | solar | wonders if HcE works for atmel |
| 07:06.20 | HcE | solar: I'll give you the chance to use Google to find that out ;) |
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| 07:06.52 | solar | oh the fun way |
| 07:07.38 | solar | HcE: Oh joy with the good pains you are about to feel |
| 07:08.06 | [AD]Turbo | yo |
| 07:09.33 | solar | HeE: Hi. I'm solar. I'm with the gentoo embedded/uclibc/busybox projects. I just recently discovered the avr platforms properly and the light blubs are going off in every direction. |
| 07:14.11 | HcE | huh? |
| 07:17.13 | solar | HcE: was typo on the $nick; But I was saying hello and introducing myself properly. |
| 07:33.02 | HcE | aha =) |
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| 10:33.40 | methril | hola |
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| 10:54.03 | RobotGuy | Howdy |
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| 12:43.39 | quickdev | Hey |
| 12:44.27 | quickdev | I'd like to draw a smart object with some horizontal bars in it (rectangles). When the rectagles are modified in height, do I need to delete the members (rectangles) I added to the smart object before? |
| 12:51.15 | methril | you want to draw with....? |
| 12:51.42 | quickdev | methril, I'd like to draw some rectangles in a smart object |
| 12:52.21 | methril | your explanation is a little bit poor for me :) |
| 12:52.22 | quickdev | with evas |
| 12:53.41 | quickdev | methril, is it ok to modify rectangles drawn in a smart object or shouldn't they be touched unless deleted and recreated? |
| 12:54.13 | methril | i never use evas, sorry |
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| 13:22.20 | RobotGuy | Mornin' |
| 13:23.05 | g1powermac | heya prpplague |
| 13:23.14 | prpplague | greetings |
| 13:23.19 | prpplague | solar: ping |
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| 13:25.55 | RobotGuy | pea: Hi |
| 13:26.15 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Motnin' |
| 13:26.21 | RobotGuy | Mornin' even |
| 13:26.26 | prpplague | greetings |
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| 13:28.52 | pea | mornin' all |
| 13:29.11 | RobotGuy | No wonder it was getting warm in my apartment - I forgot to open the windows when I went to bed. |
| 13:30.32 | RobotGuy | prpplague: How do you tell when you have sent an entire letter, using that bitmapped table setup for the Morse stuff? |
| 13:31.42 | prpplague | RobotGuy: a two bit value of 0x00 indicates that the letter is complete and a space is to be sent |
| 13:34.10 | pea | there's never 2 dits or 2 dahs together? |
| 13:35.08 | prpplague | pea: i'm sorry i did not understand your question |
| 13:35.10 | RobotGuy | Isn't "U" .._ ? |
| 13:35.53 | pea | in other words, you're using 2 bits per dot (or dash) ? |
| 13:36.08 | pea | (in the bit table) |
| 13:36.32 | prpplague | correct |
| 13:36.58 | pea | ah, ok. i'm all good for a while ;) thx |
| 13:37.35 | RobotGuy | So 00 is a dot and 11 is a dash? |
| 13:38.35 | prpplague | pea: for example 0x09 is the code for the letter A, which is: 0000000000001001 |
| 13:39.08 | RobotGuy | Oh, OK, I see it now. :) |
| 13:39.32 | prpplague | pea: the first 2 bits are 01 - which is a dit, second 2 bits are 10 which is a dash, the next 2 bits are 00 which indicates the letter is done and a space is to be sent |
| 13:39.47 | RobotGuy | So 0x01 is dit and 0x10 is a dah. |
| 13:40.05 | prpplague | RobotGuy: uh, no, thats hex |
| 13:40.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: 0x01 is dit, 0x02 is dash |
| 13:40.48 | RobotGuy | OK, I knew it was something like that. I have the concept at least. :) |
| 13:41.14 | RobotGuy | I meant to show my values in binary. |
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| 13:55.58 | RobotGuy | sjhill: Greets |
| 13:58.24 | sjhill | RobotGuy: howdy |
| 14:04.40 | prpplague | sjhill: greetings |
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| 14:28.59 | prpplague | RobotGuy: might be going ahead with the sledgehammer |
| 14:29.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you probably aren't going to like it though |
| 14:29.28 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That would be very cool. :D |
| 14:29.32 | RobotGuy | prpplague: How so? |
| 14:29.53 | prpplague | RobotGuy: its going to be 2410 based, with minimal ram and flash |
| 14:30.17 | RobotGuy | Hammer with more I/O then. I was hoping for better. |
| 14:30.34 | prpplague | like i said, you weren't going to like it |
| 14:30.44 | prpplague | its going to be targeted at arduino users |
| 14:31.12 | RobotGuy | Ah, OK, that makes sense. How minimal ram and flash? |
| 14:31.32 | prpplague | right now we are talking 16/16 |
| 14:32.05 | RobotGuy | Well, it depends on the software side of things, really. |
| 14:33.00 | RobotGuy | If you want to target just Arduino folks with a setup we don't have to change to get the necessary functionality, then the design makes sense to me and I'd probably use it. |
| 14:33.21 | RobotGuy | Hamaduino. ;) |
| 14:33.33 | RobotGuy | I mean Hammaduino |
| 14:33.43 | RobotGuy | grins |
| 14:33.51 | RobotGuy | How much I/O? |
| 14:34.58 | prpplague | 80 total pins |
| 14:35.30 | RobotGuy | 2x 40 pin header or 4x 20 pin header? |
| 14:36.27 | RobotGuy | I'd go 4x 20 pin and have a shorter but wider module. |
| 14:38.46 | RobotGuy | would enjoy the faster speed of Arduino stuff on a Hammer. |
| 14:38.58 | prpplague | http://www.elinux.org/SledgeHammer_Board |
| 14:40.33 | sjhill | hey prpplague |
| 14:40.43 | prpplague | sjhill: whats cookin? |
| 14:41.00 | RobotGuy | prpplague: When do you think a proposed pinout for Sledge might be available? |
| 14:41.32 | sjhill | prpplague: release this week |
| 14:41.36 | sjhill | going to be busy |
| 14:42.38 | prpplague | sjhill: ahh fun fun |
| 14:52.33 | RobotGuy | prpplague: RAM for what I want to do may not be the issue I thought it would be. |
| 14:53.39 | RobotGuy | Is there any change a 300W PSU will handle an ATI 800XL graphics card? |
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| 14:55.04 | RobotGuy | s/change/chance |
| 14:55.54 | g1powermac | morning GPSFan |
| 14:56.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: With a fully Arduino compatible environment, and mega I/O, I can get behind Sledge. :) I'd really like to see something like this. |
| 14:57.37 | GPSFan | g1powermac: morning, I got everything boxed up I just need to get a weight on the cpu and plextor boxes. hope I can ship the lot this week. |
| 14:59.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: http://www.elinux.org/SledgeHammer_Board |
| 14:59.35 | RobotGuy | I saw it. :) |
| 15:00.00 | RobotGuy | I'm more interested in seeing a proposed pinout. :) |
| 15:00.04 | prpplague | RobotGuy: http://www.elinux.org/SledgeHammer_Board |
| 15:01.06 | g1powermac | GPSFan, k, sounds good |
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| 15:01.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i wouldn't have reposted the url if something hadn't changed |
| 15:02.00 | RobotGuy | I just realized that. :) |
| 15:02.40 | RobotGuy | I see enough pins left to add the analog inputs. |
| 15:02.52 | prpplague | right now the big question is whether we should keep the i2s and how many adc's to bring out |
| 15:03.16 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes and all 8 please. :) |
| 15:04.14 | prpplague | i can't seem to find anyone that actually uses them for anything other than touchscreen |
| 15:05.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Accelerometers require 2 or 3, IMUs can require more. What else would you put on the remaining pins? People who are doing Arduino stuff (ala MAKE Magazine) use all sorts of I/O combinations. |
| 15:06.31 | prpplague | like i said, i've yet to find anyone who can tell me what they use it for, and provide actual examples |
| 15:07.17 | RobotGuy | Alright, I give up then. |
| 15:08.01 | RobotGuy | What else is an option for the remaining pins?? |
| 15:08.37 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i didn't say we were going to add adc's , i simply said i can't find anyone who can show me real world examples other than touchscreen |
| 15:10.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy: there are few items for suspend/resume that need to be brought out such as the nBattflt line |
| 15:16.38 | prpplague | RobotGuy: if we drop the lcd support down to 16-bit , instead of 24-bit, that free's up another 8 lines |
| 15:16.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: which means you could have all 8 adc's |
| 15:19.26 | prpplague | 24-bpp on the s3c2410 is pushing it |
| 15:19.45 | prpplague | you could still use the psp lcd just in 16bpp mode |
| 15:19.45 | RobotGuy | Can the s3c2410 do 16 bit well? |
| 15:20.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: 16-bpp is what the lcd controller was designed for |
| 15:20.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy: everything else is just a hack imho |
| 15:20.39 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Oh, cool. In that case I would drop to 16 bit color and add the 8 ADCs. |
| 15:21.14 | RobotGuy | Then there is still plenty of pins for the suspend/resume stuff. |
| 15:22.54 | RobotGuy | Oh yeah, I would use Sledge with that configuration of pins and an Arduino environment. |
| 15:25.10 | prpplague | i still don't fully "get" the arduino environment, but it seems to be what people want |
| 15:25.42 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Have you been reading MAKE Magazine at all? |
| 15:25.52 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i read it daily |
| 15:26.01 | RobotGuy | Cool. I thought so. |
| 15:26.47 | RobotGuy | I need to get a heftier PSU for my server. |
| 15:27.06 | RobotGuy | I don't think 300W is going to handle this ATI 800XL video card. |
| 15:28.46 | RobotGuy | I need to get all my magazine subscriptions restarted (Robot Magazin, SERVO, Nuts & Volts) and subscribe to MAKE Magazine. |
| 15:29.20 | sjhill | wow, you must have a lot of time |
| 15:29.23 | sjhill | to read all those |
| 15:29.31 | RobotGuy | sjhill: I do have a lot of time. |
| 15:30.03 | RobotGuy | No Wife or GF. Just me and my kitty. |
| 15:30.43 | RobotGuy | Oh, and add Circuit Cellar to that list. :) |
| 15:30.51 | sjhill | i love Circuit Cellar |
| 15:31.09 | sjhill | my subscription is long since gone, but i'll never throw those away |
| 15:31.11 | RobotGuy | Me too |
| 15:31.24 | RobotGuy | Why do you not subscribe now? |
| 15:31.42 | prpplague | sjhill: yea i just let mine lapse |
| 15:32.17 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Any particular reason? |
| 15:32.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: $$ |
| 15:33.00 | sjhill | time and cost |
| 15:33.27 | RobotGuy | $$ is why I don't get any magazines right now. |
| 15:36.06 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I would also drop the 3.3V output from Sledge. Too easy to damage it by using the 3.3V line. |
| 15:36.25 | prpplague | sledge doesn't have a 3.3v output |
| 15:36.49 | RobotGuy | Is pin 42 an input then? |
| 15:37.37 | RobotGuy | I must look at the s3c2410 datasheet again. |
| 15:38.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy: why would you have to look at the datasheet? |
| 15:38.39 | prpplague | RobotGuy: traditionally unless it has _out on the line, voltages are considered as an input |
| 15:39.39 | prpplague | hmm, only have 10 pins left, really need 17 |
| 15:39.58 | solar | prpplague: pong |
| 15:40.08 | prpplague | solar: hey |
| 15:40.21 | prpplague | solar: didn't get to read all the log of arduino before i left this morning |
| 15:40.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: 17 pins for suspend/resume stuff? |
| 15:40.33 | prpplague | solar: was there something you wanted me to see on there? |
| 15:41.10 | solar | prpplague: yeah. Let me finish getting my second eye open then I'll see what it was all about. |
| 15:41.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: 8adc's + 4 eints + 3 pwm's +2 control lines |
| 15:41.24 | prpplague | solar: ahh ok |
| 15:41.36 | prpplague | hands solar a bloody mary |
| 15:46.15 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Do you really need all 4 of those eints? |
| 15:46.23 | prpplague | wonders if anyone that actually uses the adc stuff uses anything other than 3.3v for the vref |
| 15:46.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, for the touchscreen |
| 15:46.39 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I do, if that matters. |
| 15:46.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what value do you use with it? |
| 15:47.22 | RobotGuy | 5V to 12v |
| 15:47.30 | RobotGuy | Mostly 5V |
| 15:47.59 | prpplague | ok, that won't work with the s3c2410 anyway without a divider |
| 15:48.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the adc's on the s3c2410 are 0-3.3v |
| 15:48.27 | RobotGuy | I know, and I understand about the divider. :) |
| 15:49.01 | RobotGuy | You haven't dropped any of the LCD data lines. |
| 15:49.36 | adyer | prpplague: all that stuff is on separate GPIOs? maybe you could tie some together and let the software config decide what is what. Have to protect against drive conflicts, tho |
| 15:50.42 | prpplague | adyer: yea we talking about doing that, we did a test run, very very unstable |
| 15:50.56 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i did drop some of the lcd lines |
| 15:51.03 | prpplague | RobotGuy: refresh your page |
| 15:51.47 | adyer | prpplague: analog muxes? 74HC4051 is pretty cheap |
| 15:51.48 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Oh, OK, I see how you did it. |
| 15:54.09 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Did you get all your suspend/resume lines in? |
| 15:54.31 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, everything is in there now |
| 15:54.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: COOL! :D |
| 15:57.22 | solar | prpplague: ok. Was two things. 1) Did you finish the array mappings for the Morse code DoLetter() function? If so you re-post them. 2) You might have a hot little gem here. But I searched for the m5930 and came up with them online for about $60 bucks. It fits perfectly in an altoids tin or the width of your hands. |
| 15:59.22 | prpplague | solar: no, didn't finish with the mappings, but i can do that at lunch |
| 15:59.59 | prpplague | solar: 2) $60 is just for the upgrade module , were you wanting to purchase some more of those? |
| 16:00.53 | solar | prpplague: perhaps yes. but just the boards. (not interested in the plastic) |
| 16:01.22 | prpplague | solar: with or without the bt installed? |
| 16:01.39 | RobotGuy | prpplague: M5930? |
| 16:02.04 | prpplague | RobotGuy: a cradle upgrade board for the M5900 cradle |
| 16:02.28 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ahh, OK. |
| 16:02.37 | solar | prpplague: depends on pricing. But for now with I was comparing what I thought was $60 to http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8255 |
| 16:03.32 | prpplague | holy cow |
| 16:03.47 | solar | see why I think you might have a little gem |
| 16:04.25 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Is the BT in those capable of HCI/HID? |
| 16:04.44 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no, like i said, they don't really exist |
| 16:04.45 | solar | and your board is more or less the same board as that but with the 128 vs the 168 as far as I can tell |
| 16:05.02 | prpplague | yea, i don't have all the i/o brought out though |
| 16:05.07 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I don't understand, sorry. |
| 16:05.59 | RobotGuy | HID is just software? |
| 16:06.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you either have 1) a generic bluetooth device that can do everything and you have a smart device connected to it, or 2) you have smart module that is a combination of bluetooth and something like an arm processor |
| 16:06.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: 1) the software is on the smart device 2) software is part of the firmware on the module |
| 16:06.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have a Wiimote with Nunchuk. |
| 16:07.05 | prpplague | it is almost impossible to get HID firmeare for a smart module |
| 16:07.28 | prpplague | grabs the schematic for the 5930 |
| 16:07.39 | prpplague | solar: is the usb stuff on there worth anything? |
| 16:07.47 | prpplague | solar: because i could drop all of that off |
| 16:08.05 | prpplague | solar: where did you see a M5930 for $60? |
| 16:09.16 | RobotGuy | The Wiimote is a HID device. |
| 16:09.23 | kergoth`work | morning |
| 16:09.30 | solar | prpplague: online. Sorry don't have the link handy and I'll need to jump in the shower soonish. |
| 16:09.57 | prpplague | solar: np, give me a shout later |
| 16:10.03 | prpplague | kergoth`work: greetings |
| 16:10.14 | solar | prpplague: can't say one way or the other about the USB being exposed. It's a good basic design however. |
| 16:10.42 | prpplague | solar: hehe thanks |
| 16:11.00 | RobotGuy | s/ device/. |
| 16:11.24 | solar | I'd love to make a few mods to it. But :) |
| 16:11.34 | prpplague | solar: but what? |
| 16:13.45 | solar | before diving into it. and sharing a bunch of ideas. I'd like to get an idea of what the units run in the 1-10, 11-50, 100-1000 range |
| 16:14.20 | solar | oh 51-99 |
| 16:17.56 | *** join/#edev Ei5GTB_ (n=Paul@78.16.143.168) |
| 16:18.04 | prpplague | solar: looks like we sell it to customers at cost, so probably about as cheap as you can get it would probably be around $62 |
| 16:18.31 | prpplague | solar: probably small qty probably would be in the range of mayb $80 |
| 16:18.57 | prpplague | solar: the usb stuff adds alot to the cost |
| 16:19.08 | prpplague | solar: so if you really don't need that stuff, we can drop it |
| 16:20.16 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Is there no way I can connect my HID Wiimote to something like Hammer? |
| 16:20.31 | RobotGuy | s/no/any |
| 16:20.34 | prpplague | RobotGuy: sure plug in a bluetooth usb dongle |
| 16:21.24 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Some things I would like to use my Wiimote with don't have USB Host capability, like Arduino and Sanguino. |
| 16:22.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: get to programming then |
| 16:22.33 | RobotGuy | I'm thinking in terms of using an Arduino as a dedicated controller processor for the Wiimote, allowing it to be used with anything. |
| 16:22.47 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I do not understand that comment. |
| 16:23.29 | prpplague | RobotGuy: it is doable to use the arduino to communicate via bluetooth HID, however it just takes coding, and no one has done it because there are easier ways |
| 16:23.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Please tell me the easier ways then. |
| 16:24.05 | prpplague | <prpplague> RobotGuy: sure plug in a bluetooth usb dongle |
| 16:24.33 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Arduino DOES NOT have USB Host capability. |
| 16:25.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague: What kind of BT module would I need for Arduino to be able to do software HID? |
| 16:25.59 | prpplague | RobotGuy: which is why you don't see anyone doing it with arduino |
| 16:26.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you'd need one with custom firmware |
| 16:26.43 | prpplague | seems like g1powermac had looked at nxp device with bt |
| 16:26.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: HCI firmware? |
| 16:26.57 | prpplague | RobotGuy: HID firmware |
| 16:30.48 | prpplague | solar: yea, about the cheapest i could get it into your hands would be something like $65.00 |
| 16:31.23 | solar | prpplague: I have the 3 page schematic of the circuits. Is there one for the board? I have a rev.c Is that proprietary? |
| 16:32.19 | solar | what how many pins are left to be exposed? |
| 16:32.22 | prpplague | solar: one for which board? for now it is, i've put in to have it made public |
| 16:32.55 | solar | m5930 |
| 16:33.08 | prpplague | solar: about 20 pins to be exposed, if you were serious about using it, i'd rev the board without the usb and add the exposed pins |
| 16:33.23 | prpplague | solar: the pcb you have is the M5930 |
| 16:33.34 | prpplague | solar: are you asking about what the 5930 plugs into? |
| 16:35.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy: my suggestion to you, is to get it working first with a usb dongle on your pc, then then about what you need to transfer the operations to an avr based design |
| 16:36.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That makes sense to me. :) |
| 16:37.05 | RobotGuy | I already have a BT dongle. |
| 16:38.08 | solar | prpplague: Not what it plugs into. But rather do you have the pcb schematic |
| 16:38.34 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I've been tempted to tap into the I2C of the Wiimote/Nunchuk. |
| 16:38.36 | prpplague | solar: hmm, we must be having a terminology problem |
| 16:38.45 | solar | I think so. |
| 16:39.03 | prpplague | solar: i emailed the m5930 schematic to you the other night |
| 16:39.31 | prpplague | solar: you got that email right? |
| 16:40.11 | solar | yes. But that is for the circuits only. |
| 16:40.19 | RobotGuy | An AVR could perform I2C to serial translation and send the bytes out through a serial BT module. |
| 16:40.26 | prpplague | solar: schematic==circuits |
| 16:40.38 | prpplague | solar: what are you wanting to know? |
| 16:41.03 | prpplague | solar: i'm guessing you are asking for a board profile |
| 16:41.20 | solar | prpplague: the one I'm after is for the pcb printout. So I know where stuff like pin2 of the ISP goes to. |
| 16:41.55 | solar | where to plug in power. Where to expect serial |
| 16:42.00 | solar | :) |
| 16:42.12 | prpplague | solar: generally that is called a "board profile" , but in most cases people just use the schematic |
| 16:42.34 | prpplague | solar: you have the board handy to look at? |
| 16:42.40 | solar | yes |
| 16:42.54 | prpplague | solar: turn it over to the side which has no components |
| 16:44.37 | prpplague | solar: on the back side you will see the solder pads for each of the connectors |
| 16:44.37 | prpplague | solar: for instance, look at the top connector |
| 16:44.46 | prpplague | solar: see how all but one of the pads are round, and the last one is square? |
| 16:45.10 | solar | the square pin(2?) on the ISP is where I apply +5V power? |
| 16:45.22 | prpplague | solar: the square pin is pin 1 |
| 16:45.37 | solar | square pins. Does that always hold true? |
| 16:45.40 | prpplague | solar: the pin directly above it is pin 2 |
| 16:46.07 | prpplague | solar: as a general rule, for good product design, yes |
| 16:46.26 | prpplague | solar: you'll see some cheap boards made in china that don't, but in generally yes |
| 16:46.33 | prpplague | solar: now, turn the board over |
| 16:46.40 | prpplague | solar: and look at the same connector |
| 16:47.16 | prpplague | solar: notice there is a marking in white "P2" with an arrow pointing to the connector |
| 16:47.53 | prpplague | solar: see that? |
| 16:48.28 | solar | P2 points at the square pin |
| 16:48.54 | prpplague | exactly |
| 16:49.04 | prpplague | solar: so if you look on the rest of the board |
| 16:49.18 | prpplague | solar: you will see all the markers point to pin 1 |
| 16:49.40 | prpplague | solar: if you go to your schematic and locate the marker P2 , it will show you what each pin is |
| 16:50.39 | solar | prpplague: are there any onboard power leds? |
| 16:52.13 | prpplague | solar: no as this was designed to be inside a case |
| 16:52.39 | solar | and the blue-led only triggers when doing bluetooth? |
| 16:53.58 | prpplague | solar: yea |
| 16:54.50 | solar | anyway pin2 and pin10 put power to the board? |
| 16:55.56 | prpplague | yep, you can power it up with that |
| 16:57.25 | solar | ok. Good. I'll make up some kind of connector and get back with you for the next lesson |
| 16:57.36 | prpplague | hehe |
| 16:57.47 | solar | heads to work now. |
| 17:01.39 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Would http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8771 have a possibility of doing what I want to do? |
| 17:04.50 | RobotGuy | Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Wiimote and Nunchuk are assembled using screws. |
| 17:10.34 | prpplague | looks |
| 17:11.35 | RobotGuy | The BT chipset in the Wiimote is a BCM2042. |
| 17:12.20 | prpplague | RobotGuy: nope, it doesn't have any HID support |
| 17:12.32 | RobotGuy | Dang. |
| 17:12.38 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that one is mainly designed for interfacing to bluetooth headsets |
| 17:12.52 | g1powermac | prpplague, huh? |
| 17:13.01 | prpplague | g1powermac: double huh |
| 17:13.09 | g1powermac | prpplague, what nxp device? |
| 17:13.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: like i said, they just don't exist since there is no demand |
| 17:13.21 | chouimat|work | ok let try this: Quadruple huh? |
| 17:13.31 | RobotGuy | Triple huh |
| 17:13.33 | prpplague | g1powermac: sorry i was probably mistaken on the person |
| 17:13.39 | g1powermac | prpplague, ahh, k |
| 17:14.25 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Would it be possible to get a sample of a device that would work? |
| 17:14.49 | prpplague | RobotGuy: not sure i understand your question |
| 17:15.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Would it be possible to get sample(s) of BT HID device(s) that would allow doing what I want to do? |
| 17:15.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you are still having problems understanding what is involved |
| 17:16.07 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I guess so. |
| 17:16.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the bt device you just showed me |
| 17:16.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: at sparkfun |
| 17:16.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you know the one? |
| 17:16.31 | RobotGuy | Yes |
| 17:16.44 | RobotGuy | The BlueGiga SMD module |
| 17:16.53 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that module is two things together |
| 17:17.05 | prpplague | RobotGuy: it is an arm processor and a bt rf transceiver |
| 17:17.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the arm process is running a program |
| 17:17.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that program makes it use the bt rf transceiver and pass the information the arm processors uart connection |
| 17:17.40 | RobotGuy | Firmware |
| 17:17.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: exactly |
| 17:18.20 | RobotGuy | Hardware + Firmware = module. |
| 17:18.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: so ANY bt module has the potential to be used as a BT HID device, however, either the firmware is not available, or no one has written it |
| 17:19.38 | RobotGuy | wonders if the components, particularly the BT chipset, would be available as sample(s). |
| 17:19.57 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea you can get that with no problems, you can order from NXP |
| 17:20.21 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Only if a person/company has an account with NXP. |
| 17:20.35 | chouimat|work | bt hid? |
| 17:20.40 | prpplague | http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8469 |
| 17:20.45 | prpplague | chouimat|work: thats what i said |
| 17:21.10 | chouimat|work | ok now I understand ... not |
| 17:21.28 | prpplague | chouimat|work: hehe |
| 17:21.41 | prpplague | RobotGuy: still think you are going to have problems |
| 17:22.48 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Probably. :( The HID spec is available, but I am guessing coding firmware from that would be difficult at best. Software HID?? |
| 17:23.12 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea very difficult |
| 17:24.25 | RobotGuy | wonders about tapping into the Wiimote's internals. |
| 17:24.44 | RobotGuy | Naw, I'd probably break it. |
| 17:26.39 | prpplague | the major issue is that bt HID uses the core USB HID protocol |
| 17:26.57 | prpplague | so in most cases you will be connecting to something using a usb interface |
| 17:27.00 | RobotGuy | And that has to be supported in hardware, right? |
| 17:27.18 | MothaWork | holy hell, Fedora lacks pidof? |
| 17:27.33 | chouimat|work | not here |
| 17:27.36 | prpplague | RobotGuy: not nessarily , but helps to be connected via usb so you don't duplicate work |
| 17:27.53 | MothaWork | huh...I wonder how it got to where this system (not under my control) does |
| 17:27.59 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Wiimote doesn't connect via USB though. |
| 17:28.00 | MothaWork | all my Debian systems have it without installing anything extra |
| 17:28.06 | prpplague | MothaWork: f8/f9 normally have pidof |
| 17:28.12 | prpplague | MothaWork: with the base install |
| 17:28.17 | MothaWork | well, this is so old it may be f7 or older |
| 17:28.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: actually it does |
| 17:28.23 | chouimat|work | MothaWork: my armv5 fc6 based box have it |
| 17:28.30 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Internally? |
| 17:28.39 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea |
| 17:29.03 | MothaWork | ok, then I have no idea |
| 17:29.19 | prpplague | iirc, the wii uses mostly usb bus for i/o |
| 17:29.47 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Have you looked inside one? |
| 17:30.03 | prpplague | when i first came out |
| 17:30.30 | chouimat|work | MothaWork: should be in SysVinit |
| 17:31.00 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Is there a little USB Hub in there? |
| 17:32.31 | MothaWork | chouimat|work: well, like I said, not under my control |
| 17:32.39 | MothaWork | so if it's not there, I can't fix it other than by chucking it in my homedir |
| 17:32.40 | chouimat|work | :( |
| 17:32.49 | MothaWork | I would never run Fedora to begin with |
| 17:32.55 | chouimat|work | try /sbin/pidof |
| 17:33.15 | MothaWork | holy hell, they put it in sbin? |
| 17:33.21 | MothaWork | and why didn't "locate pidof" find that? |
| 17:33.22 | chouimat|work | yes |
| 17:33.35 | MothaWork | why is pidof in sbin? |
| 17:33.52 | chouimat|work | I don't know ... |
| 17:34.00 | MothaWork | might as well put ps in there while they're at it... |
| 17:34.47 | *** join/#edev bbradley (n=bbradley@78-105-167-16.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:35.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, USB - http://www.wiire.org/index.php?title=Wii/console/bluetooth_card&printable=yes |
| 17:36.29 | MothaWork | I've noticed that Fedora tends to do that with things that have uses outside of system init/admin |
| 17:36.47 | MothaWork | they put "ip" (from iproute2) in /sbin while Debian puts it in /bin |
| 17:38.23 | RobotGuy | prpplague: So what all this amounts to is I am going to have to aquire something (like a Wii) that has the HID bluetooth stuff in order to do what I want to do. |
| 17:38.44 | MothaWork | ah yes, noticing that bluetooth sucks, are we? |
| 17:38.51 | chouimat|work | MothaWork: the problem is debian put everything in /usr/bin :) |
| 17:39.55 | MothaWork | chouimat|work: I've got plenty in /bin and /sbin |
| 17:40.00 | MothaWork | though /usr/bin is huge, yes |
| 17:40.01 | prpplague | RobotGuy: still missing the point, the BT HID protocol uses USB HID for the core operations, what ever you use, you will need to have some sort of usb HID stack inorder to use it |
| 17:40.35 | MothaWork | their usage does seem consistent with modern uses of /bin, /sbin, and /usr, though |
| 17:40.59 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I thought the firmware for that was on the BT chip. |
| 17:41.04 | RobotGuy | I guess I was wrong |
| 17:41.33 | MothaWork | I seem to recall that there is a small, opensource USB HID parser out there |
| 17:41.49 | prpplague | RobotGuy: when using a module |
| 17:41.59 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the part in the wii is not a module |
| 17:42.04 | chouimat|work | http://www.mgeups.com/opensource/projects/hidparser.htm ? |
| 17:42.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy: in fact, you can purchase the same configuration as a usb dongle |
| 17:42.46 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Would a USB HID keyboard or mouse have something usable? |
| 17:43.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: NO USB on things like Arduino. |
| 17:43.35 | MothaWork | chouimat|work: that's it. It's kinda limited (it was written to talk to UPSes, which have simple HID descriptors), but it's there |
| 17:44.03 | chouimat|work | starting point :) if the code is readable :) |
| 17:44.25 | MothaWork | chouimat|work: the latter might be debatable, from what I remember |
| 17:44.37 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: there is a project out there that does bit-banged USB on AVR |
| 17:44.39 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, those would be easier to use, but the problem is the firmware again, the firmware in the keyboard is designed to be a client |
| 17:44.46 | prpplague | RobotGuy: same as the wiiremote |
| 17:44.57 | MothaWork | oh, yeah, device only |
| 17:44.58 | prpplague | RobotGuy: gotta have a master somewhere |
| 17:45.02 | MothaWork | USB is very much master/slave |
| 17:45.06 | MothaWork | as is bluetooth |
| 17:45.16 | MothaWork | (though not so much as USB) |
| 17:45.35 | chouimat|work | hmmm sound like the relation I had with one of my ex .... /me runs |
| 17:48.15 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, I'll just drop this as it is clear I am not going to be able to get from point A to point B with it. |
| 17:49.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: like i said, you should get it working on your desktop first |
| 17:49.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you generally learn alot and sometimes find solutions |
| 17:49.33 | prpplague | almost always does proof-of-concept on desktop |
| 17:51.59 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I'll have to wait until I have a properly working PC. Both of mine are borked at present. :( |
| 17:52.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you _still_ haven't got them working? |
| 17:53.22 | solar | that should be his number one item to fix. think he is down from 3 comps to 1 |
| 17:53.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I don't know what is wrong with this one, and the other one likely needs a bigger PSU before it will work right. |
| 17:53.59 | RobotGuy | solar: Down from 2 to 0 |
| 17:54.09 | prpplague | solar: indeed |
| 17:54.11 | RobotGuy | This one barely works software wise. |
| 17:55.20 | RobotGuy | This one loses files and apprently corrupts some too. |
| 17:56.39 | solar | RobotGuy: if you were down to 0 that would mean you are on irc from your cell-phone |
| 17:57.16 | RobotGuy | solar: I count this one down because it isn't working properly. |
| 18:03.06 | prpplague | solar: about 1/2 way complete on all the numbering code representations |
| 18:10.22 | prpplague | solar: this is kind of mind numbing |
| 18:14.43 | prpplague | solar: hehe ";" == 0x666 |
| 18:17.38 | RobotGuy | That's no decimal though. |
| 18:23.10 | chouimat|work | ?? |
| 18:23.25 | CosmicPenguin | thats a space station! |
| 18:37.34 | adyer | prpplague: morse code to some kind of hex? |
| 18:38.46 | prpplague | adyer: yea |
| 18:50.28 | prpplague | solar: http://www.pastebin.ca/1184521 |
| 18:51.43 | adyer | what, no huffman coding? <ducks> |
| 18:53.40 | prpplague | adyer: naw, just a 4 bit pattern |
| 18:53.53 | prpplague | adyer: 00 space, 01 dit, 10 dash, 11 word |
| 18:54.54 | ds2 | while you are at it, can you also write the inverse of that code? |
| 18:55.05 | prpplague | ds2: ?? |
| 18:55.25 | ds2 | code that takes /dev/audio input of morse code and output of ASCII |
| 18:55.27 | ds2 | =) |
| 18:55.28 | *** join/#edev bbradley (n=bbradley@78-105-167-16.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:56.07 | ds2 | useful for 80M |
| 18:56.20 | prpplague | ds2: 80M ? |
| 18:56.54 | ds2 | 80M ham band |
| 18:57.01 | prpplague | ahh |
| 18:57.06 | ds2 | probally all of HF |
| 19:13.00 | prpplague | solar: you've got spam |
| 19:18.48 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 19:18.52 | prpplague | has a headache |
| 19:21.20 | *** part/#edev prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 19:21.25 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 19:25.57 | solar | prpplague: cool thanks. I'll do a tad more cleanup and post it somewhere for the masses. |
| 19:37.31 | prpplague | solar: sounds good |
| 19:38.21 | prpplague | solar: i wonder how much smaller the code is now |
| 19:39.50 | prpplague | solar: old morse code compiled with your app is 10244, new morse code is 9898 |
| 19:40.21 | prpplague | solar: 346 bytes savings isn't too bad |
| 19:41.19 | g1powermac | just bought a batch of 360 5v 2megabit plcc flash chips for $50 :-) |
| 19:41.44 | g1powermac | http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230283385579 |
| 19:42.41 | sunrunner20 | lol |
| 19:43.19 | prpplague | cute |
| 19:43.29 | g1powermac | they're nice chips |
| 19:52.36 | MothaWork | ds2: there are morse decoders out there |
| 19:52.53 | MothaWork | they work rather well on machine generated CW, but only so-so on manually keyed (either w/ a keyer or a straight key) |
| 19:53.25 | Crofton | look up cw skimmer ..... |
| 19:55.01 | MothaWork | there are ones out there that work OK on manually keyed CW |
| 19:55.08 | MothaWork | depends on how good the originators fist is |
| 19:58.13 | solar | prpplague: Your spam has earned a RE: |
| 20:02.32 | ds2 | MothaWork: I know about those |
| 20:02.53 | ds2 | was hoping to convince someone to write yet another implementation, that prehaps is more tolerant of sloppy CW |
| 20:03.14 | ds2 | arrgg |
| 20:03.48 | *** join/#edev ds2 (i=noinf@netblock-66-245-251-24.dslextreme.com) |
| 20:04.07 | ds2 | a second CTRL-Z messes up the curses state :( |
| 20:28.11 | prpplague | uh oh |
| 20:28.19 | prpplague | checks his mail |
| 20:28.53 | ds2 | another all hands meeting and the special security staff are arriving in the parking lot? :) |
| 20:29.11 | prpplague | solar: naw, refering to solar's comment |
| 20:33.15 | g1powermac | hmm, that was fun |
| 20:33.29 | g1powermac | had a 2mm metal splinter in his thumb |
| 20:33.40 | prpplague | solar: looks dandy |
| 20:33.57 | prpplague | solar: you tried it yet? |
| 20:36.56 | CosmicPenguin | wonders why nobody has tried consolidating the watchdog timers in the kernel before |
| 20:38.17 | ds2 | CosmicPenguin: in what way? |
| 20:38.39 | CosmicPenguin | in that nearly all of them are mostly identical |
| 20:41.30 | chouimat|work | CosmicPenguin: I guess they thought that code duplication was less evil than #ifdef .... |
| 20:41.58 | ds2 | as in factoring it out |
| 20:42.21 | CosmicPenguin | it can be done like everything else - function hooks for ping() and disable() and set_heartbeat() and then the master driver handles the fileops etc etc |
| 20:42.45 | chouimat|work | true |
| 20:42.52 | ds2 | if only the x86 code worked more like the arm code where a board file defines the things unique about a particular implementation |
| 20:44.51 | CosmicPenguin | don't act too smug - there are 14 arm watchdog drivers all doing the same thing as the other architectures |
| 20:45.23 | chouimat|work | CosmicPenguin: plus all those not in the standard kernel :) |
| 20:47.02 | ds2 | didn't say the arm code was any better |
| 20:47.16 | ds2 | just saying the possibilities for factoring is better |
| 20:47.47 | ds2 | seems like someone needs to write patches for a watchdog-core ;) |
| 20:48.39 | CosmicPenguin | This is one of those things that is so stupid simple, then it makes you think there is a reason why they haven't done it already |
| 20:48.54 | CosmicPenguin | of course, nobody in Linux land really cares about watchdog timers |
| 20:49.25 | ds2 | isn't this the general trend with most subsystems? seems this was the case that produced the VFS layer |
| 20:49.55 | ds2 | or the change from where you had to patch the equiv of main() to call your driver's init when you added a driver |
| 20:53.54 | adyer | CosmicPenguin: heh, let me know before the rewrite, I have one that'll need redoing ;-( |
| 20:56.01 | CosmicPenguin | I'm thinking about it - but on the other hand, I'm so lazy |
| 20:56.04 | adyer | CosmicPenguin: of course people who really like watchdogs usually have lots of requirements for them... |
| 20:56.37 | CosmicPenguin | if you really like watchdogs, then the linux watchdog isn't for you |
| 20:56.39 | ds2 | then there are those people who decides to toss out the watch dog rather than fix their code |
| 21:05.54 | ds2 | GOD DAMN #@$!@#!@#%#!$@$@#$@$@^a$#@#t%@# coders who insist on pulling in everything single damn library in the world |
| 21:06.35 | CosmicPenguin | aka - gtk |
| 21:08.06 | ds2 | how did you know? </sarcasm> |
| 21:13.23 | ds2 | configure is such an abomination |
| 21:14.16 | MothaWork | auto* and libtool in general are an abomination |
| 21:15.06 | MothaWork | and yes, the watchdog situation on ARM sucks |
| 21:15.44 | chouimat|work | ds2: in general softwares suck ... |
| 21:15.48 | CosmicPenguin | watchdoginess in general sucks |
| 21:16.53 | MothaWork | I'm not a huge fan of watchdogs, but they do serve a purpose |
| 21:18.18 | prpplague | since everyone is in complain mode....... |
| 21:18.34 | MothaWork | complaining is awesome, though! |
| 21:18.35 | prpplague | complains about the EE doing homebrew power management |
| 21:19.06 | MothaWork | prpplague: well, it depends on how complicated the power management is and how much the local system differs from the reference design |
| 21:19.42 | MothaWork | I did my own power management on these boards and things are fine, but then a) I'm reasonably careful, and b) these micros are fairly simple in comparison to some of the huge things out there |
| 21:20.05 | prpplague | MothaWork: 1) reference design had nothing for PM 2) very complicated 3) the EE has no experience doing PM |
| 21:20.08 | MothaWork | oh, and c) I have lots of other stuff on my board not on the reference design, and d) I didn't have any battery concerns as these are all plug-in powered |
| 21:20.21 | chouimat|work | prpplague: the EEdiot? |
| 21:20.22 | prpplague | MothaWork: this board has probably 50 discretes on it |
| 21:20.32 | prpplague | counts |
| 21:20.35 | MothaWork | prpplague: well, in that case, the EE should have contacted FAE for the major components |
| 21:20.45 | prpplague | MothaWork: thats just it |
| 21:20.57 | prpplague | MothaWork: he didn't use any off-the-shelf stuff |
| 21:21.01 | MothaWork | oh god... |
| 21:21.06 | MothaWork | why would anybody do that? |
| 21:21.20 | prpplague | MothaWork: my point exactly |
| 21:21.24 | MothaWork | there's a reason we have PMICs out there |
| 21:21.31 | CosmicPenguin | there is? |
| 21:21.39 | MothaWork | and even if you don't use a full-function PMIC, there's plenty of good SMPS controllers, LDOs, etc. |
| 21:21.55 | prpplague | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:22.01 | MothaWork | (and the rare occasion when you DON'T want a LD linear, there are those, too) |
| 21:22.01 | prpplague | oops that was for MothaWork |
| 21:22.10 | MothaWork | prpplague: that's pretty bad... |
| 21:22.14 | prpplague | indeed |
| 21:22.30 | prpplague | MothaWork: he argued that this was a way to save money since we didn't purchase an asic |
| 21:22.40 | prpplague | yea riiiigggghhhtttt |
| 21:22.53 | MothaWork | looks like a MOSFET and a Diode on my big board, not including diodes that are part of buck regulators |
| 21:22.58 | kergoth`work | prpplague: what was the name of that teeny arm bootloader you like again? |
| 21:23.00 | kergoth`work | is drawing a blank |
| 21:23.17 | prpplague | kergoth`work: apex |
| 21:23.27 | prpplague | kergoth`work: its not perfect for everyone |
| 21:23.34 | prpplague | kergoth`work: but i find it heck of a tool |
| 21:23.35 | MothaWork | prpplague: I can't imagine using discretes for power management these days |
| 21:23.58 | MothaWork | prpplague: there are plenty of situations where a fully integrated PMIC isn't the best choice, but using tons of discretes is just silly |
| 21:24.12 | MothaWork | SMPS controllers with built in switch transistors are very common |
| 21:24.24 | prpplague | MothaWork: indeed |
| 21:24.27 | MothaWork | as are linear regulators with no external required components other than a capacitor or two |
| 21:24.33 | prpplague | kergoth`work: http://wiki.buici.com/wiki/Apex_Bootloader |
| 21:24.38 | prpplague | kergoth`work: pretty robust |
| 21:24.51 | kergoth`work | yeah, i remember hearing about it years ago, just never had a chance to play with it |
| 21:24.52 | prpplague | kergoth`work: the item i like about it is i can get it up on a new board very quickly |
| 21:25.04 | MothaWork | prpplague: I'm quite a fan of the MC3163/NCP3163 |
| 21:25.17 | MothaWork | cheap, reasonably flexible, and the control loop seems hard to confuse |
| 21:25.18 | prpplague | looks |
| 21:25.28 | prpplague | MothaWork: i was looking at some TI stuff |
| 21:25.32 | MothaWork | you can use it in buck, boost, and buck-boost topologies |
| 21:25.45 | MothaWork | the operating frequency is a bit low by modern standards, so the passives can get a bit large |
| 21:25.54 | MothaWork | TI has some very nice power management, too |
| 21:26.02 | MothaWork | as does LT (though LT can be a bit pricey |
| 21:26.50 | prpplague | kergoth`work: give me a shout if you need any info on apex |
| 21:26.52 | MothaWork | 3163 also has a VERY nice design spreadsheet (though it does require Excel) |
| 21:27.30 | prpplague | yea, we needed something a little bigger to control several voltages and control some battery charging |
| 21:28.15 | MothaWork | ah, yeah. Not the best solution for multi-output or battery charging |
| 21:28.44 | prpplague | MothaWork: atleast at this point, i've been able to convince them to replace some of the logic with an atmega48 |
| 21:28.45 | MothaWork | TI and National tend to be good places to look for that sort of thing |
| 21:29.02 | MothaWork | FAE I know at ON isn't a big fan of microcontroller based PMIC |
| 21:29.12 | MothaWork | people have trouble getting loop response time down low enough |
| 21:29.17 | MothaWork | depends on the application, of course |
| 21:29.25 | prpplague | yea, i'm not either, but atleast this way i have a little control over the pm |
| 21:29.39 | MothaWork | if you're just using it to turn things on and off, that's not bad at all, though |
| 21:29.58 | ds2 | blackbox PLDs ;) |
| 21:29.59 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea, he had a lattice of logic making decisions |
| 21:30.07 | MothaWork | ok, that's bad |
| 21:30.14 | MothaWork | use a micro or PLD |
| 21:30.26 | MothaWork | there's almost never a reason to break out the 74xx stuff these days |
| 21:30.30 | prpplague | ds2: yea you could do that, but we already purchase the atmega48 in qty 10k at a time, so its just as cheap |
| 21:30.32 | MothaWork | unless you really do just need a couple of gates for some reason |
| 21:30.52 | MothaWork | I've got some 741G stuff on a couple boards |
| 21:30.58 | MothaWork | for when you just need an inverter or mux or something |
| 21:31.30 | prpplague | i've got to rig up something to test battery failures |
| 21:31.55 | MothaWork | Atmel has some nice battery oriented AVRs |
| 21:31.55 | prpplague | i.e. if they drop the handheld and the battery looses contact with the pins for a short space of time |
| 21:32.07 | MothaWork | they have lots of logic for that sort of thing |
| 21:32.15 | MothaWork | onboard comparators, etc. |
| 21:32.22 | MothaWork | heck, some of them even have charge logic |
| 21:32.42 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea this design is way too far down the road |
| 21:32.44 | ds2 | prpplague: wouldn't a supercap sold that? |
| 21:33.11 | MothaWork | ds2: usually too big for a handheld |
| 21:33.24 | ds2 | ah |
| 21:33.52 | MothaWork | idea is to momentarily put it into the lowest power mode you can get away with, run off the bulk caps you already have, and come back |
| 21:34.20 | MothaWork | if you don't get power back within a few milliseconds, you attempt to flush everything you can out and prepare to just die |
| 21:39.38 | solar | prpplague: re: tested it yet. Nope. Only compile tested it. I forgot to bring nay boards to work. |
| 21:42.00 | MothaWork | going home |
| 21:43.00 | prpplague | solar: ahh no problem, just checking |
| 21:43.00 | *** join/#edev frikker (n=blaine@107.135.68.216.DED-DSL.fuse.net) |
| 21:43.01 | frikker | s |
| 21:43.31 | adyer | Check out lattice ispPAC stuff. PLD plus analog level detect, on board osc., FET drive |
| 21:53.56 | *** join/#edev Ian_Daniher (n=it@69.61.230.246) |
| 21:57.47 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: greetings |
| 21:57.54 | Ian_Daniher | thanks |
| 21:58.30 | prpplague | anyone got any idea for a good way to test battery disconnects othen using a push button? |
| 21:58.49 | sunrunner20 | ? |
| 21:59.32 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: how about a FET hooked up to a gpio? |
| 21:59.38 | prpplague | <prpplague> i've got to rig up something to test battery failures |
| 21:59.38 | prpplague | <prpplague> i.e. if they drop the handheld and the battery looses contact with the pins for a short space of time |
| 22:00.03 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: yea, i was thinking of doing that from the parport on my pc to the device |
| 22:00.08 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: get some good cycles going |
| 22:00.14 | Ian_Daniher | precisely what I was going to suggest! |
| 22:00.42 | Ian_Daniher | I have some python code to run that, if you would like |
| 22:01.14 | Ian_Daniher | you give it a value in seconds for on time and off time, and it'll run ad infinatum |
| 22:01.22 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: naw, thanks, i've got plenty of parport test apps |
| 22:01.28 | solar | I really do love my job. Today is my 2 year. They got me semi drunk for lunch. |
| 22:01.32 | Ian_Daniher | nods |
| 22:01.37 | prpplague | solar: hehe |
| 22:01.43 | Ian_Daniher | solar: lol |
| 22:01.59 | prpplague | solar: just don't go messing with the servers |
| 22:02.27 | solar | prpplague: servers are fine. It's DNS that I have to be kept away from. |
| 22:02.33 | prpplague | hehe |
| 22:02.49 | solar | I have way way toooo much fun with reverse dns records |
| 22:02.59 | chouimat|work | solar: ehehe |
| 22:04.36 | solar | prpplague: so ready to chat for a few mins about the m3950? |
| 22:06.11 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 22:15.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: ping |
| 22:15.54 | prpplague | solar: heading home shortly, bbiab |
| 22:15.57 | prpplague | RobotGuy: pong |
| 22:16.08 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Did you track my package? |
| 22:16.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, the package is scheduled for delivery on wed morning |
| 22:16.43 | prpplague | heads home |
| 22:16.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, that's tomorrow (crossed fingers). Thanks. |
| 22:16.54 | RobotGuy | I mean day after tomorrow |
| 22:16.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: today is monday |
| 22:22.28 | *** part/#edev adyer (n=adyer@adsl-69-223-13-78.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
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| 23:17.38 | RobotGuy | -sigh- |