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| 00:23.55 | mr_ab | How do you specify more than one [foo=bar] bit in sources.list? The two most obvious ways deb [a=b,c=d]... or deb [a=b] [c=d]... Don't seem to be working or perhaps I'm doing something else wrong... Still trying to recover my machine.. 3rd day... |
| 00:24.06 | urk | Will I be able to use vi or vim without the apt edit-sources after updating? |
| 00:24.44 | urk | Currently I can't use vi /etc/apt/sources.list I get an error while in a screen indicating it went to readonly, and when I do the :w!, I get an error indicating it can't read the file. |
| 00:25.14 | dvs | urk: you need to run vi as root in that case |
| 00:25.40 | urk | dvs> Its already in root, and that is what is going on. |
| 00:26.07 | urk | dvs> If it wasn't in root I wouldn't even be able to get into the vi screen, and I would immediately get an error that the file is locked. |
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| 00:26.51 | mr_ab | That's not accurate.. You can open file with vi in readonly mode... |
| 00:27.15 | milkt | urk: in that case vi start with readonly mode |
| 00:27.17 | urk | mr_ab> Well this is what is going on with my installation. |
| 00:27.42 | urk | mr_ab> What version of Debian are you running? |
| 00:27.55 | milkt | urk: what are you trying to do with /etc/apt/sources.list ? |
| 00:28.20 | mr_ab | Just try running sudo vi... |
| 00:28.47 | urk | milkt> Yes, I am trying to edit sources.list I was able to do it with the apt edit-sources, but it is a few extra steps. |
| 00:29.29 | urk | mr_ab> A lock file situation is not the type of error I am posting about, and it isn't related. I am already at root. The error I am complaining about is within the screen that opens up after running vi. |
| 00:30.12 | pasiz | why you run vi in screen? |
| 00:30.20 | oxek | mr_ab: the syntax described in `man sources.list` |
| 00:30.32 | oxek | deb [ option1=value1 option2=value2 ] uri suite [component1] [component2] [...] |
| 00:30.37 | pasiz | or do you mean gnu screen or physical screen? |
| 00:30.40 | milkt | urk: do you know how to use vi? try editing with "sed" or "cat"? |
| 00:31.10 | pasiz | cat is bad advice for editing |
| 00:31.21 | milkt | well i know, not sure what is happening on their machine |
| 00:31.39 | milkt | i wonder if they have nano |
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| 00:31.56 | pasiz | if someone doesn't know how to use vi, definately have empty file after cat |
| 00:32.56 | urk | milkt> Saving within vi seems to be goofy. |
| 00:33.16 | pasiz | :wq |
| 00:33.21 | oxek | :x |
| 00:33.27 | oxek | saved you a letter |
| 00:33.37 | milkt | urk: what do you mean? |
| 00:33.40 | themill | mr_ab: «multiple values these are separated from each other with a comma (,)» from sources.list(5). You might like to look at the deb822 format for the file instead, however |
| 00:33.55 | pasiz | donates saved letter for charity |
| 00:34.23 | pasiz | and still uses wq ;) |
| 00:34.52 | themill | mr_ab: actually, that's for multiple values for the same item; it's space separated... definitely use the 822 format! |
| 00:35.00 | oxek | pasiz: better to use :x, :wq will save each time, even if file is not changed |
| 00:35.30 | pasiz | oxek: if i don't change file, i use plain q |
| 00:35.31 | oxek | themill: I've still never seen 822 in the wild |
| 00:35.49 | themill | I must live in wilder places. |
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| 00:38.07 | oxek | not even debian uses it by default ;) |
| 00:38.25 | pasiz | oxek: and if you type x without escaping, you delete character. if you type wq you just are one word right... |
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| 00:38.51 | mr_ab | Oxek.. Thanks and sorry.. I dug around some manpages forgot there was one for the file itself... On a live CD with no internet and TV.. Really uncomfortable.. ;) |
| 00:39.08 | mr_ab | Off my a-game to say the least |
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| 00:39.34 | pasiz | especially old ibm and lenovo laptops are prone to miss characters |
| 00:40.24 | oxek | hardware issues are out-of-scope for vim |
| 00:40.35 | themill | oxek: that's just that no-one has changed the installer yet... I think someone has started that work though |
| 00:40.57 | oxek | isn't deb822 over 20 years old? |
| 00:41.06 | pasiz | but they exists on some of my easy to carry datacenter x220:s ;) |
| 00:41.25 | pasiz | also space, not only : |
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| 00:43.18 | Paerox | Not sure where to ask, so I try here first. I want to compile and run a Go application (https://github.com/hoenn/ynab-metrics) but when I do "make run" I get an error saying "cannot unmarshal config file". I have the "golang"-metapackage installed. |
| 00:43.55 | Paerox | Could it be that I'm missing a package to be installed? |
| 00:44.33 | themill | oxek: as a sources.list format, I think stretch was the first to have robust support, with experimental support perhaps in jessie |
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| 00:45.07 | oxek | I remember wrong then |
| 00:45.41 | pasiz | Paerox: so you you have config file where is something wrong. |
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| 00:45.55 | acu | hello all |
| 00:46.06 | acu | is there a way to see the left life of an SSD ? |
| 00:46.22 | pasiz | acu: could you elaborate more |
| 00:46.39 | pasiz | otherwise, as long as it goes... |
| 00:47.14 | oxek | acu: you could check the SMART values, some vendors use it to indicate "remaining life" |
| 00:47.22 | pasiz | Paerox: The project is ready to be built and run, before continuing create ynab-metrics/config.json based on the sample.json file in the same directory. Replace access_token with your actual access token. |
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| 00:47.33 | pasiz | did you read github installation notes |
| 00:47.46 | pasiz | that is your problem |
| 00:48.02 | Paerox | pasiz, I do have a config file, yes. I followed the example, renamed "sample-config.json" to "config.json" and inserted my access token. |
| 00:49.29 | ryouma | acu: i recall something about smart showing the number of blocks or similar that have been used up and are total or such |
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| 00:49.51 | pasiz | Paerox: unmarshalling array is the reason, your formatting may be wrong |
| 00:49.54 | Paerox | pasiz, Aha. I just re-read my config.json file. I see now that I'm missing a comma at the end of the "user_token" line |
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| 00:50.48 | pasiz | you are welcome |
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| 00:51.49 | Paerox | pasiz, I added a comma, still does not run. *headscratching intisifies* |
| 00:52.16 | pasiz | your array is NOT PARSABLE |
| 00:53.04 | pasiz | copy sample-config again, and add only the access token to it |
| 00:53.07 | Paerox | pasiz, I understand now. Will inspect my config.json carefully |
| 00:53.31 | Paerox | pasiz, good suggestion. Will try. |
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| 01:04.33 | Paerox | acu, do you have the "smartmontools" package installed? |
| 01:12.37 | jaggz | uhoh |
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| 01:12.46 | Paerox | pasiz, Do I have to do a "make build" whenever I change my config.json? |
| 01:12.59 | jaggz | I moved a few folders to hdd from ssd, including /var/ to /mnt/bigdrive/var |
| 01:13.11 | jaggz | but apparently I did something wrong (maybe I didn't move those.. or killed them) |
| 01:13.36 | jaggz | when I try to run apt now it says: E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend - open (2: No such file or directory) |
| 01:14.16 | Paerox | jaggz, is "/var/lib/dpkg" gone now? |
| 01:14.50 | SponiX | jaggz: I have an odd feeling you had an apt like process open when you did the transfer |
| 01:15.24 | jaggz | Paerox, yeah |
| 01:15.35 | jaggz | SponiX, nah, did it from single user moded |
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| 01:17.09 | jaggz | shoot. yeah, there's a lot missing. so whatever's there now was created at the boot/run of x11.. all the stuff created by apt installations is gone |
| 01:17.23 | Paerox | dpkg expects to read/write to /var/lib/dpkg. If it does exist, dpkg will fail unless you tell dpkg about the new location (is that possible?) |
| 01:17.23 | dpkg | Paerox: You are person #2 to send an unparseable request |
| 01:17.49 | jaggz | They *could* be hiding in the mounted-over /var directory but I didn't see the message I noticed when I did that with another dir "/var is not empty. mounting over it anyway kthx" |
| 01:18.56 | lembron | just to close that out from a few hours ago - `spt-get update && apt-mark manual php5.6-memcache && apt-get remove php-memcache && apt autoremove && apt-get dist-upgrade` worked like a charm, whole farm is upgraded =) |
| 01:18.58 | SponiX | jaggz: there are tools like "clonezilla" that typically are helpful with these situations |
| 01:19.20 | jaggz | dpkg She is person #1 to send an unparasable request. He is person #2 to send an unparsable request. |
| 01:19.20 | dpkg | ...but she is already something else... |
| 01:19.24 | jaggz | GAW |
| 01:19.36 | SponiX | lembron: if you are "upgrading" to php5.6 you are still a bit behind the times :) |
| 01:20.06 | jaggz | Paerox, gonna try going back into single-user mode (don't think I can unmount /var right now without doing that).. |
| 01:20.17 | jaggz | can I init into single user mode or do I have to reboot? |
| 01:21.03 | Paerox | I've never tried it myself, but I suspect "systemctl rescue" is what you want to do. |
| 01:23.24 | genr8_ | is anyone smart enough to know how Firefox controls disabling X's screensaver when playing a fullscreen video ? I started running Firefox in FireJail, but now that feature is gone, it keeps blanking the screen while im watching a video |
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| 01:26.25 | ryouma | i know that some video players have an option to do so, so if you can't find out what ff does you can find out what they do |
| 01:28.03 | genr8_ | i was thinking about it in reverse. like its got to be an OS function |
| 01:28.15 | genr8_ | maybe your way will produce more results |
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| 01:40.58 | ratrace | genr8_: via dbus, there's an api call to suspend the screensaver |
| 01:41.31 | genr8_ | ffs dbus |
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| 01:42.00 | ratrace | "inhibit", not suspend. org.gnome.screensaver.inhibit |
| 01:43.59 | ratrace | on i3-wm I'm using xautolock which will lock the screen unless I place the mouse cursor in the predefined corner, which I do when I watch netflix |
| 01:46.44 | Druid | wow how did u do that ratrace |
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| 01:48.04 | genr8_ | that sounds cool |
| 01:49.20 | Druid | ignore my question the feature is in xautolock itself |
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| 01:51.13 | torniq | E: Failed to fetch https://packages.sury.org/php/dists/stretch/main/binary-amd64/Packages |
| 01:51.13 | torniq | E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead. |
| 01:51.34 | torniq | I see the key listed in apt-key list, but whenever i do; apt update, .. i get this |
| 01:53.49 | jaggz | okay |
| 01:53.50 | jaggz | found the dir |
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| 02:01.46 | jaggz | SponiX, i wasn't copying a whole thing.. just was setting up a new system and.. the way I do it is I have my raid hdd mirror at something like /mnt/bigfs, then in it I have the few directories I want on hdd |
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| 02:02.19 | jaggz | that means the normal boot options of picking mounting locations don't work during install, I just have to put the thing at /mnt/bigfs then add bind-method mounts in /etc/fstab |
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| 02:02.57 | jaggz | (those are nice. they let you mount part of a mounted fs (a directory) somewhere in your filesystem) |
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| 02:03.35 | jaggz | I used to use symlinks for it /home -> /mnt/bigfs/home .. but finally, once, after YEARS of it, one software (forgot which) couldn't handle the symlink |
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| 02:04.55 | dannylee | me and debian will rule the world... |
| 02:05.26 | dannylee | i have blue eyes |
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| 02:05.32 | jaggz | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:05.47 | jaggz | looks something like that |
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| 02:06.35 | jaggz | oh I got that wrong. anyway, something like that |
| 02:07.35 | jaggz | in that case you should remove mnt- to match. or change the path to /mnt/bigfs/home |
| 02:07.47 | jaggz | i mismatched them when prepping it for irc |
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| 02:12.49 | SponiX | jaggz: seems like a complicated mess with a lot of points of failure to me. I just use something like rsync and verify the data is in a few places to avoid loss and call it good enough :) |
| 02:12.58 | SponiX | you do you though |
| 02:14.01 | jaggz | SponiX, I've just used raid mirrors for years in our personal systems |
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| 02:14.33 | jaggz | something starts dying -- unless both die -- swap one out with a new.. done. |
| 02:14.35 | ratrace | Druid: yes, xautolock essentially invokes the -locker of choice in -time period of inactivity unless the mouse is within -corners |
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| 02:14.44 | ratrace | I use it with i3lock |
| 02:15.07 | ratrace | signs off |
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| 02:25.35 | jaggz | SponiX, where's the failure? |
| 02:25.38 | jaggz | (the point of .. ) |
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| 03:42.31 | genr8_ | i am having a terrible time solving this screensaver inhibit |
| 03:43.12 | genr8_ | i do think its the dbus thing but its very bunged up to actually interact with |
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| 04:59.48 | mrjpaxton[m] | Is there a real quick way to check what packages I have installed from "buster-backports"? |
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| 05:04.52 | sney | mrjpaxton[m]: with aptitude, 'aptitude search ~i ~Abuster-backports' would probably do it |
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| 05:13.04 | SponiX | mrjpaxton[m]: dpkg-query -W | grep '~bpo' works also |
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| 05:54.54 | urk | Would someone like to review my sources.list file? https://paste.debian.net/1187766/ I created the file in accordance with instructions from Debian's website, and ended up with a bunch of redundancies. The following URL is the errors https://paste.debian.net/1187767/ |
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| 05:55.24 | urk | The first thing I noticed is that contrib entries are already being handled by main, and I am wondering what is going on here? |
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| 05:56.43 | genr8_ | ,v kernel |
| 05:56.44 | judd | No package named 'kernel' was found in amd64. |
| 05:56.55 | genr8_ | how to do the thing |
| 05:57.02 | PaddyF | urk: why comment out regular packages and run on sources repositories only? |
| 05:57.12 | themill | urk: you keep listing "main" in lines 15, 18, 21 but you've already configured those exact same things earlier. |
| 05:57.18 | PaddyF | sorry themill |
| 05:57.42 | themill | (also, what PaddyF says -- that's not a functional sources.list for installing packages) |
| 05:57.59 | SponiX | ,v linux-image-amd64 |
| 05:58.00 | judd | Package: linux-image-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.16+63+deb8u2; jessie-security: 3.16+63+deb8u7; stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u11; stretch-backports: 4.19+105+deb10u4~bpo9+1; buster: 4.19+105+deb10u9; buster-security: 4.19+105+deb10u9; buster-backports: 5.10.13-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.10.13-1; sid: 5.10.19-1 |
| 05:59.01 | urk | PaddyF> If you don't comment them out then you will get even more redundancy errors than what I have here. I have been through this before, and find that the instructions on Debian's website could use some improvement. |
| 05:59.24 | PaddyF | one second |
| 05:59.30 | urk | themill> I was wondering about that, but these are the instructions that came from Debian's site. |
| 05:59.51 | SponiX | urk: know the list that debian ships with ? --- YEAH, that one is just fine ( quit dicking with things ) |
| 05:59.55 | PaddyF | this tool makes it easy to get a proper sources.list --> https://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ |
| 05:59.56 | SponiX | LOL |
| 05:59.58 | edlou | anyone with ryzen 9 experiencing this: https://dpaste.com/CWTEVCFSJ ? |
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| 06:00.24 | urk | themill> My initial thoughts are the site is out of date. |
| 06:00.56 | themill | PaddyF: no, please don't recommend debgen, it's full of crap |
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| 06:01.04 | PaddyF | oops |
| 06:01.26 | themill | urk: "the website" is pretty vague. If it's the wiki page I'm thinking of, then it's pretty clear that that is an "instead of" not "as well as" |
| 06:02.32 | genr8_ | Whats the deal with 5.4.x not being a thing on debian ? |
| 06:02.39 | leonardus | I just installed Debian and I'm trying to install the drivers for Surface Laptop stuff https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface/wiki/Installation-and-Setup |
| 06:02.49 | leonardus | The problem is that involves downloading stuff from the internet and installing packages |
| 06:02.54 | leonardus | and I don't have any wifi drivers |
| 06:02.59 | leonardus | what am I supposed to do? |
| 06:03.23 | SomethingGeneric | leonardus, Surface Linux is fairly explicit that you need internet to get up and running. In my case, that meant a USB-C adapter w/ a ethernet port |
| 06:03.37 | SomethingGeneric | Of course, you could always also download and copy files from another PC via USB stick, too |
| 06:04.18 | SomethingGeneric | genr8_, iirc, Debian doesn't like to bump major versions in point releases |
| 06:04.28 | leonardus | I don't have one of those adapters |
| 06:05.00 | SomethingGeneric | leonardus, if you've got a base system running, use the same adaptor that connected ur flash drive or memory card, and use that as a transfer method for the correct drivers> |
| 06:05.02 | SomethingGeneric | *? |
| 06:07.56 | leonardus | I'm not running Linux on my other machine so I'm not sure how I would go about getting the packages on there, maybe could you do me a favor and send me the .debs for: `linux-image-surface linux-headers-surface iptsd libwacom-surface linux-surface-secureboot-mok`? |
| 06:08.12 | leonardus | Or is there a way for me to get those myself? |
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| 06:09.35 | SponiX | leonardus: got a phone handy that has internet ? |
| 06:09.39 | leonardus | Yes |
| 06:09.41 | SponiX | Android one ? |
| 06:09.44 | leonardus | yep |
| 06:09.58 | SponiX | Google how to USB Tether internet over to your Surface |
| 06:10.06 | SomethingGeneric | leonardus, here's the repo url as per their github https://pkg.surfacelinux.com/debian/ |
| 06:10.16 | SomethingGeneric | But yeah actually SponiX's suggestion sounds better |
| 06:10.34 | leonardus | I'll try that, thanks |
| 06:11.23 | SomethingGeneric | leonardus, worst case, find the .deb files and copy them over some other way, but as DontBreakDebian would say, use package manager instead :)) |
| 06:11.45 | urk | Does anyone know why I am getting an error message after trying to unmount a usb? https://paste.debian.net/1187774/ This has been happening all day even though I religiously unmount before pulling a usb drive out of my computer. Could this be a bad USB? I am using a Sandisk. |
| 06:12.07 | urk | I just realized I am off topic, and should have posted this in hardware. |
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| 06:13.05 | SomethingGeneric | urk, since you're here, did you check to *see* if any process was using it? |
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| 06:16.09 | urk | SomethingGeneric> I'm trying to use the Fuser command, but without success. I don't think I have the syntax right. |
| 06:16.54 | urk | I'm doing sudo fuser -m which should do it, but it apparently not. |
| 06:17.44 | SomethingGeneric | urk: "sudo fuser -m /dev/sdd1" ? |
| 06:18.47 | urk | SomethingGeneric> This is what came back /dev/sdd1: 19939 30745c |
| 06:19.18 | urk | I shouldn't have to kill the process every time I use my usb, and wonder what is going on? |
| 06:19.41 | urk | Problem seemed to occur on both my 32-bit computer, as well as the newer XPS next to me. |
| 06:19.45 | SomethingGeneric | urk: yea, it's weird. How did you mount it? Was it automatic thru GNOME or another DE? |
| 06:20.59 | urk | SomethingGeneric> At the command line /mount /dev/sdd1. On the newer laptop I mounted it with sudo mount /dev/sdd1 /mnt |
| 06:21.50 | urk | Problem persists no matter what I do. Tomorrow I might check the net to see if there are other complaints about it. |
| 06:21.53 | SomethingGeneric | Hmm. I wonder if it's conflicting with udisk/udev? (Honestly, I don't know enough about those subsystems to help you troubleshoot, sorry :( ) |
| 06:22.04 | leonardus | Alright so, as my luck would have it, I don't think I have a C-to-C cable to tether with |
| 06:22.40 | SomethingGeneric | leonardus, might want to look into making a custom repo by downloading the packages you need from the surfacelinux repo |
| 06:22.44 | leonardus | I have a C-to-A but that would mean unplugging my keyboard |
| 06:23.22 | leonardus | SomethingGeneric: Alright, I guess I have no other option. How do I do that? |
| 06:23.48 | urk | I think I have a bad USB. I had to run fuser 2-3 times to clear out the running processes. |
| 06:23.59 | SomethingGeneric | urk, it's also weird that even becoming root kicks you back?? Try "sudo fuser -k /dev/sdd1" ? |
| 06:24.06 | SomethingGeneric | Ope, you're faster than me. |
| 06:24.30 | SomethingGeneric | leonardus, https://wiki.debian.org/DebianRepository/Setup |
| 06:25.02 | urk | SomethingGeneric> After running fuser -k, no processes are showing up, but I still get an error. |
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| 06:25.35 | SomethingGeneric | urk, that's really weird. I'm not sure what else to tell you to try. Sorry. Do you/did you sanity check w/ a different USB stick? |
| 06:25.49 | SomethingGeneric | Good luck to you and leonardus, I've gotta take off for tn |
| 06:25.53 | SomethingGeneric | Have a good <local time here> |
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| 06:26.01 | urk | I think I have a bad USB. I had to run fuser 2-3 times to clear out the running processes. |
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| 06:27.12 | urk | I usually use Patriot USB, but Fry's was out of them |
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| 06:27.59 | leonardus | I might just run to best buy tomorrow and pick up a C to C cable to do this instead. |
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| 06:51.14 | SymbioticFemale | what would cause an ssh daemon started at boot to "exited (SUCCESS)" rather than "active (running)? |
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| 06:56.22 | xx22 | hi, after debian update, I got a grub_register_command_lockdown on boot |
| 06:56.29 | xx22 | and it stops |
| 06:56.54 | xx22 | is there a way to boot from the grub menu? |
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| 07:28.24 | genr8_ | are you pressing X on your keyboard for some reason ? |
| 07:28.46 | genr8_ | press alt-sysrq-x (which will disable it until the next boot) ? |
| 07:30.41 | genr8_ | idk. seems unusual that it would suddenly put you in lockdown mode |
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| 07:38.04 | jolt | SymbioticFemale: systemd is a bit confusing sometimes. Normally it starts a process, but that process starts another process, and then the first process is exited (SUCCESS) |
| 07:39.28 | jolt | SymbioticFemale: but I see that my ssh service is "running" state, maybe you want to investigate the ssh service output for clues; journalct -u ssh |
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| 07:55.55 | fireba11 | yay. update broke grub: grub-install: warning: your core.img is unusually large. It won't fit in the embedding area. |
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| 08:00.39 | frostschutz | fireba11, how large is it? |
| 08:04.28 | dff | hi all, im trying to debug an issue in a huge log file. id like to cat log.txt | grep "weird error" | tell me which line the errors occur on |
| 08:04.42 | dff | anyone that can help me out with the last pipe? |
| 08:05.16 | fireba11 | frostschutz: no clue. where is that fiel supposed to be? |
| 08:08.04 | PaddyF | dff: you could use an editor and use its function to search |
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| 08:08.47 | dff | PaddyF: this is a low resource system and the log file is huge |
| 08:08.58 | dff | editor lags |
| 08:09.11 | dff | id rather get the line from bash then open nano on that line |
| 08:09.13 | dff | if possible |
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| 08:09.33 | dff | feels like a remote 90s terminal |
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| 08:10.54 | PaddyF | dff: add the option "-n" to grep |
| 08:11.29 | dff | hugs PaddyF |
| 08:11.33 | PaddyF | :) |
| 08:11.39 | PaddyF | but you can save the use of "cat" too |
| 08:12.00 | PaddyF | you could: grep -n error_string /path/to/file |
| 08:12.10 | dff | cool thanks |
| 08:12.14 | PaddyF | welcome |
| 08:14.10 | fireba11 | useless uses of cat #56267272 |
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| 09:35.18 | fireba11 | frostschutz: since that setup is very old, the first partition starts at sector 63 leaving little room for grub. default is 2048 now. will probably have to shrink the first partition a little |
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| 11:21.55 | Lope | I've only ever * Installed r8168-dkms (on a computer that needs it) or * Not installed r8168-dkms. I've found that some Realcrap adapters will _only_ work with r8168, and others will _ONLY_ work with r8169 adapters... |
| 11:22.23 | Lope | Is it possible that I can have r8168-dkms, but only load the module if r8169 isn't working? |
| 11:22.38 | Lope | so maybe put it in the modules blacklist file, then modprobe it if I need it? |
| 11:22.54 | Lope | after first unloading r8169 of course. |
| 11:23.25 | Lope | it's just that I'd like to be able to make a portable debian installation that I can use on either type of Realcrap network adapters. |
| 11:23.29 | ratrace | I think the amount of Joules you're pouring into this problem has vastly surpased the cost of just getting a different NIC :) |
| 11:23.46 | Lope | ratrace, haha, bro, sometimes onboard is the way to go :) |
| 11:23.57 | ratrace | but that's a rented server, innit? |
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| 11:24.23 | Lope | Nah, that server that I had troubles with is fine. It's got r8168 loaded and is happy. |
| 11:24.34 | ratrace | ah |
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| 11:24.45 | Lope | all my servers/PC's are working |
| 11:25.01 | Lope | but I don't like that I have to either install r8168-dkms, or not install it. |
| 11:25.10 | ratrace | then you really have two options: a) have both installed, the kernel will chose the right one b) if the kernel chooses the wrong one, you'll have manually blacklist in such cases |
| 11:25.15 | Lope | I'd like to have it installed, but only load it when i detect a shitty revision of realcrap. |
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| 11:25.25 | Lope | rev 11 is one such shitty revision. |
| 11:25.52 | Lope | ratrace, can I blacklisr r8168, but manually modprobe it? |
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| 11:26.36 | ratrace | yes I think so, the blacklist is for the modprobe something something service |
| 11:26.52 | ratrace | system-modules-load.service |
| 11:27.04 | Lope | ratrace, I've got one computer (that's old)... when it had r8168 the eth didn't work. So I'd rather not let the kernel load it. |
| 11:27.08 | ratrace | systemd*- |
| 11:27.12 | Lope | (of it's own choice) |
| 11:27.33 | Lope | Most realcrap works with r8169 |
| 11:27.37 | Lope | "works" i mean. |
| 11:27.54 | Lope | You still have to lock the speed and disable checksumming etc if you want it to be stable, usually. |
| 11:27.58 | ratrace | well mine, the one and only I ahve, works just fine |
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| 11:28.25 | Lope | (depends on timeframe of course, my one realcrap has a firmware crash after 2 weeks if autoneg is enabled) |
| 11:28.32 | Lope | like clockwork. |
| 11:28.42 | ratrace | lol |
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| 11:29.08 | Lope | ain't no replacement for intel networking. |
| 11:29.15 | Lope | It's one thing they've done right. |
| 11:29.15 | ratrace | I guess I got lucky with mine. it's r8169 and I wasn't think about it at all when I was purchasing the motherboard |
| 11:29.30 | Lope | which rev is it? |
| 11:29.41 | Lope | I've got a database of revisions and it's problems. |
| 11:29.44 | ratrace | the worst thing would've been buying an additional pcie nic thingy for a dozen bucks I think they're that cheap |
| 11:30.29 | Lope | ratrace, I've got literally 10 realcrap rev 6 nics, which "work" "fine" with r8169. |
| 11:30.38 | mrjpaxton[m] | I'm using both the backported kernel and `firmware-realtek`, and it seems to be working just fine with my RTL8822BE. Just make sure that you backport both if you're going to use it, otherwise you may get "firmware missing" errors. |
| 11:30.41 | Lope | Problem is you don't always have a free PCI-E slot etc. |
| 11:30.44 | ratrace | rev 11 |
| 11:30.55 | Lope | ratrace, jesus, rev11 is satan for me. |
| 11:31.06 | ratrace | 03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 11) |
| 11:31.10 | Lope | there must be multiple rev 11's. |
| 11:31.26 | Lope | (I wouldn't be surprised) |
| 11:31.29 | ratrace | but: firmware: direct-loading firmware rtl_nic/rtl8168g-2.fw |
| 11:31.32 | mrjpaxton[m] | I wonder what the other 10 are then. Lol. |
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| 11:31.49 | Lope | mrjpaxton[m], it might be hardware REVISION |
| 11:31.55 | Lope | but different firmware or some shit. |
| 11:31.55 | ratrace | so.... ¯\_(ã)_/¯ I have no friggin clue whether it's 8169 or 8168 or both or what |
| 11:32.31 | ratrace | It JustWorks(tm), even without the firmware, I'm just loading it because OCD. |
| 11:32.32 | Lope | mrjpaxton[m], are you on buster? |
| 11:33.09 | mrjpaxton[m] | Some of Realtek's Ethernet seems to work out of the box with the free drivers/firmware. It's always the Wi-Fi I've had problems with in the past on Debian. |
| 11:33.16 | mrjpaxton[m] | Lope: Yep, on Buster. |
| 11:33.19 | ratrace | I've been very luck with hardware support on linux since... forever. I never purchased specifically researching driver support, and got bitten only once, many years ago when I had ATI that of course didn't work, and I replaced it with nvidia which.... JustWorked(tm)..... in 2006.... |
| 11:33.34 | ratrace | *lucky |
| 11:33.41 | Lope | ratrace, I've got one old mobo that's only got 2 PCI-E slots. at one point I was using USB ethernet adapter on it lolz. (until I mastered the realcrap situation) |
| 11:33.42 | mrjpaxton[m] | But I have `buster-backports` enabled to use the newer drivers. |
| 11:33.51 | mrjpaxton[m] | They seem to work a lot better. |
| 11:34.12 | ratrace | even the random 10⬠usb wifi I just grabbed off the shelf with zero though..... JustWorks(tm) being a Ralink thingy |
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| 11:34.44 | mrjpaxton[m] | Ralink is very much hit or miss. |
| 11:34.54 | Lope | ratrace, there's one ralink chipset that's very buggy, requires you to turn off the hardware crypto otherwise it runs at a proper snails pace. |
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| 11:35.01 | ratrace | I've even had luck with an occasional Broadcom! |
| 11:35.03 | mrjpaxton[m] | And now they've merged with Mediatek anyway, soooo.... yeah. |
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| 11:36.29 | ratrace | the first laptop I bought for linux was a random choice.... HP something. atheros wifi, Justworked(tm). nvidia gpu, JustWorked(tm). even the pcmcia sd card thingy, JustWork....no, wait, I had to fiddle with some userland daemons for that one. |
| 11:36.35 | deadrom | hi. M.2-to-USB-C adapter, popped in, "device not responding to setup address", deb10, stock kernel. not shown in lsusb. crappy device? needs newer kernel? tested other dist with 5.4, same result. |
| 11:36.37 | ratrace | that was 2006 |
| 11:37.09 | ratrace | deadrom: where did you get 5.4 in debian |
| 11:37.24 | ratrace | ah "other dist" ..... so, tried backports? 5.10 is in buster backprots |
| 11:38.06 | mrjpaxton[m] | Hmm... The Nvidia GPU just worked on Linux in 2006? I find it hard to believe it worked with every acceleration feature though. |
| 11:38.11 | Lope | ratrace, my realtek rev 11 is on a Z87 motherboard i5 4th gen. |
| 11:38.28 | Lope | that will not work at all without r8168. |
| 11:38.31 | ratrace | assus H81M-R here |
| 11:38.40 | mrjpaxton[m] | I mean nowadays Nouveau would work on it just fine, but that didn't exist back then... I think? |
| 11:38.59 | ratrace | no, nouveau came later |
| 11:39.13 | Lope | is Nouveau okay for a laptop for just code/browsing? |
| 11:39.24 | ratrace | mrjpaxton[m]: I don't know about "every accel feature" but .... I played EnemyTerritory just fine... and later Doom. |
| 11:39.45 | mrjpaxton[m] | I still have a GTX 780 Ti, just to test out Nouveau any time I want to. But in the meantime, I've switched to Radeon. It's good enough for me. Lol. |
| 11:39.46 | ratrace | downloaded doom linux client from iD software FTP site, and copied media from the game DVD. |
| 11:40.21 | ratrace | Lope: should be |
| 11:40.30 | Lope | ratrace, in fairness to realcrap, it's only about 5% as bad as AMD pro proprietary linux driver situation. |
| 11:40.41 | ratrace | afaik major problem with nouveau is lack of some very proprietary firmware that's something something "reclocking" something which is needed in games |
| 11:40.43 | Lope | That is some special kind of evil. |
| 11:40.54 | mrjpaxton[m] | That sounds cool. I wish I grew up with that game. But I grew up with a lot of Maxis and Nintendo games. |
| 11:41.37 | ratrace | THAT SAID .... Debian Stretch default installation wouldn't boot on the workstation with gtx960 I built in 2015, due to nouveau going belly up on boot. had to boot into text mode and install nvidia-driver |
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| 11:41.46 | Lope | I'm amazed that people have invested countless hours of their lives in Nouveau. |
| 11:41.54 | Lope | For free! |
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| 11:42.12 | mrjpaxton[m] | ratrace: The simple thing is, since it's reprogrammed from the ground up to be compatible with Nvidia GPUs, it lacks a lot of the code that fully accelerates them. So the GPUs have "slow accelleration". |
| 11:42.23 | mrjpaxton[m] | In other words, the driver sucks. But at least it's FOSS. |
| 11:42.25 | ratrace | mrjpaxton[m]: btw I was very much adult in 2006. I "grew up" with early Zork, collossal cave.... things like that :) |
| 11:42.27 | Lope | ratrace, as I understand it, Nouveau only got really good recently. |
| 11:42.56 | mrjpaxton[m] | Oh really? I could check it out again. |
| 11:43.06 | ratrace | Lope: wouldn't now, I used nouveau only to get to the terminal and install nvidia-driver :) |
| 11:43.10 | mrjpaxton[m] | I was thinking of installing a second GPU and passing it through to some kind of VM, maybe. |
| 11:43.17 | mrjpaxton[m] | I dunno. |
| 11:43.38 | ratrace | mrjpaxton[m]: I'm doing that.... needs CPU with good VT-* support |
| 11:43.44 | mrjpaxton[m] | I guess Linux could use the 780 Ti. it's not like I use Linux that much for my gaming. That's still Winblows. |
| 11:44.04 | ratrace | most importantly... which isn't mentioned in various guides.... you need a newer CPU with POsted Interrupts or else the performance is gonna tank |
| 11:44.28 | Lope | Yeah, not just CPU, also need a good Mobo. |
| 11:44.38 | ratrace | heh "newer" .... that'd be Broadwell and newer. oh yeah, mobo with good IOMMU separation |
| 11:44.46 | Lope | I bought a Ryzen x470 mobo, hopefully it'll be good for IOMMU. |
| 11:44.47 | ratrace | if it does NUMA zones, you've hit a goldmine |
| 11:44.55 | mrjpaxton[m] | I used to have a link for Nouveau's compatibility list, but I lost it. It's very good though and showing you what works, and what doesn't. |
| 11:45.04 | Lope | I haven't gotten around to setting it up. |
| 11:45.12 | mrjpaxton[m] | Or I guess "feature set". |
| 11:45.23 | ratrace | Lope: x470 or x740? |
| 11:45.38 | ratrace | dunno if you typo'd. Cuz I got x740 for the new workstation. still haven't assembled it all |
| 11:45.55 | mrjpaxton[m] | Oh weird. Their Website is down for me - https://nouveau.freedesktop.org |
| 11:46.12 | Lope | Ryzen X470 MSI Gaming MAX |
| 11:46.29 | ratrace | I found and ordered RTX3060ti but the store screwed me over and called in a week later to tell me they're out of them. now you can't get rtx 30* anywhere and they're insanely priced. NOPE. |
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| 11:47.04 | mrjpaxton[m] | Hmm... Yeeeah. Why are people like that, though? Lol. |
| 11:47.08 | Lope | ratrace, can you pass thru a single USB port to a VM? |
| 11:47.12 | Lope | for gaming |
| 11:47.36 | ratrace | Lope: you must pass all the devices in the IOMMU group. So if that one port is alone in its group, sure. |
| 11:47.40 | Lope | I know people like to pass the whole USB controller thru, but what if you only have a port. |
| 11:47.44 | mrjpaxton[m] | People really have nothing better to do during a pandemic then use their time to scam people. |
| 11:48.09 | Lope | ratrace, yes, I'm aware of the IOMMU situation |
| 11:48.20 | ratrace | I've learned to hate nvidia so much.... so I'll be getting AMD 6700tx |
| 11:48.22 | Lope | but what about using some KVM/Qemu hax to pass thru just the port |
| 11:48.28 | Lope | using software or whatever? |
| 11:48.30 | ratrace | Lope: I've heard about it, but never did it |
| 11:48.34 | Lope | I mean that's been around since forever. |
| 11:48.41 | Lope | Long before IOMMU |
| 11:48.54 | mrjpaxton[m] | IOMMU crashed my computer once. I still prefer VirtIO whenever I can use it. But I guess GPU passthrough needs it. |
| 11:49.01 | ratrace | Lope: one thing I learned for gaming VM is that you should virtualize as little as possible. passhtrough natively as much as possible |
| 11:49.03 | Lope | Okay, I can't imagine performance would be terrible. Mouse and KB is hardly high perf shit. |
| 11:49.14 | ratrace | Lope: lag |
| 11:49.24 | Lope | ratrace, ah, I suppose. |
| 11:49.25 | ratrace | if it lags 1 ms it can screw your FPS experience. |
| 11:49.41 | deadrom | ratrace: is there a deb-live-testing with latest kernel? |
| 11:49.42 | Lope | ratrace, can you achieve zero lag with IOMMU? |
| 11:49.51 | ratrace | deadrom: I don't know, sorry |
| 11:50.00 | ratrace | Lope: yes with posted interrupts |
| 11:50.22 | ratrace | feature of CPU to virtualize interrupts in such a way that the host kernel is not handling them, they're signalled directly into the VM |
| 11:50.22 | Lope | ratrace, you know those PLX PCI-E port multipliers? |
| 11:50.33 | Lope | they probably don't make extra IOMMU groups eh? |
| 11:50.44 | ratrace | no idea, but they're essentially bifurcating a lane, no? |
| 11:50.56 | ratrace | so I'd guess that's still the same IOMMU but.... I don't know that for a fact |
| 11:50.57 | Lope | they're like a USB hub but for PCI-Express |
| 11:51.21 | Lope | but then you could pass thru the whole controller |
| 11:51.22 | ratrace | Lope: well they can't make up new lanes out of thin air, so they're bifurcating existing ones |
| 11:51.30 | Lope | but still not an IOMMU thing. |
| 11:51.45 | Lope | ratrace, bifurcating is completely different to PLX |
| 11:51.54 | ratrace | the "passthrough" is really just one thing: assigning a pciid to the vfio-pci driver before the regular driver gets to it. that's literally all there is |
| 11:52.07 | Lope | bifurcating is where you have say a 16 lane slot, and you split that into 4x 4 lane slots. |
| 11:52.24 | ratrace | (and giving those pciids to the qemu-kvm of course). but it'll fail unless you reassign _all_ devices in the group to vfio-pci |
| 11:52.27 | Lope | the PLX thing can take a 1 lane slot and turn that into 4x 1 lane slots. |
| 11:52.39 | Lope | So it's really like a hub. |
| 11:52.43 | ratrace | yeah no |
| 11:52.46 | Lope | Whereas bifurcation is more passive. |
| 11:52.53 | ratrace | it can't make up pci lanes out of thin air |
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| 11:53.00 | deadrom | you guys are aiming at virtual machine gaming..? |
| 11:53.09 | ratrace | yea |
| 11:53.11 | Lope | it doesn't make up lanes, it acts as a PCI-E switch. |
| 11:53.19 | Lope | think of a network switch. |
| 11:53.34 | ratrace | Lope: yes but the motherboard and CPU have a fixed number of them. you can't add new ones to the fixed number of physical wires going into the cpu |
| 11:54.00 | ratrace | so if it's not bifurcating it's doing something even worse .... emulating |
| 11:54.18 | ratrace | round robin serialization onto the same pci lane or some shit like that |
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| 11:54.40 | Lope | ratrace, https://www.amazon.com/BGNing-Express-External-Adapter-Multiplier/dp/B07B2SWS2D/ |
| 11:54.51 | Lope | ratrace, those are not USB ports. they're PCI-E riser ports. |
| 11:55.16 | ratrace | Lope: a network swith can't give you 10x1GBps if it has one 1GBps uplink. I mean, it CAN but it's a lie, those 10 ports will balance and round robin packets to saturate 1GBps uplink |
| 11:55.18 | Lope | ratrace, yes exactly |
| 11:55.45 | Lope | but you don't need a full 1 PCI-E lane bandwidth for mouse and keyboard. |
| 11:55.51 | ratrace | that's true |
| 11:55.56 | Lope | So bandwidth saturation is a non issue. |
| 11:56.24 | ratrace | you can bif.... emulate.... mice, kbd, network card even.... you can stuff 16x devices onto a single 1x16 lane |
| 11:57.05 | ratrace | 16x1 onto 1x16 |
| 11:57.19 | Lope | sure could. |
| 11:57.36 | Lope | BTW you see there's a heatsink on a chip on that card. |
| 11:57.44 | Lope | It's very much like a network switch. |
| 11:58.14 | ratrace | "for bitcoin miner" ..... now THAT'S marketing. |
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| 11:58.44 | Lope | haha yeah lolz |
| 11:58.59 | ratrace | gold plated UTP cat6 for EXCELLENT (digital) audio performance. $300 per 2 meters of it |
| 11:59.00 | Lope | so funny the people who write marketing for products. |
| 11:59.18 | Lope | especially tech products, who don't know jack. |
| 11:59.55 | Lope | So I don't know if I'm remembering accurately, but I think I've seen a 2x slot bifurcation card that has no substantial chip or heatsink on it. |
| 12:00.34 | Lope | with PLX, AFAIK your motherboard or cards don't need to be special to work with it, majority will "just work" even OLD shit. |
| 12:00.49 | Lope | Whereas bifurcation, the card and mobo understand that there's bifurcation. |
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| 12:01.25 | Lope | The reason you can't just split a 16 lane slot into 16 1x lanes, is that there's some signalling shit per slot. |
| 12:01.49 | Lope | with bifurcation, if I imagine right, all cards and mobo are connected in parallel on that signalling bus. |
| 12:01.53 | Lope | And they play nice. |
| 12:02.06 | Lope | Kind of like a 1-wire bus or whatever. |
| 12:02.11 | Lope | or 2 wire etc. |
| 12:02.43 | Lope | so PLX creates the illusion that each card is talking to it's own PCI-E host. |
| 12:02.56 | Lope | kind of like BNC network cables vs UTP. |
| 12:03.11 | Lope | (I might be wrong about bifurcation) |
| 12:03.20 | Lope | but that's my "understanding" |
| 12:03.51 | ratrace | yeah could be |
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| 12:13.42 | queip | copied files from /disk1 to /disk2 using rsync -av |
| 12:13.50 | queip | now testing with -niaHc shows some files as " |
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| 12:14.10 | queip | as "hf" what does this mean? that the copy changed sometimes a pair of hardlinked files into 2 distinct files in the new disk2 ? |
| 12:14.43 | queip | can this and only this be repaired with rsync? just do rsync -avH /disk1 /disk2 now again? (files on either side did not changed in the meantime) |
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| 12:15.26 | MegaCarp | how could i host a debian preseed file for use on kvm and local network? |
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| 12:16.07 | Nindustries | Hi, is there a way to install TPROXY on Debian/iptables? |
| 12:16.11 | Nindustries | squid returns: TPROXY support in the system does not work. |
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| 12:16.24 | zprd | hi all |
| 12:16.47 | zprd | unatteded upgrade of tonight broke grub boot I think (buster) |
| 12:17.03 | zprd | am i the only one? (running VMs) |
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| 12:19.34 | aminvakil | zprd: just rebooted a buster vm, let's see how it goes! |
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| 12:20.40 | zprd | symbol grub_register_command_lockdown not found |
| 12:21.11 | Druid | have seen someone else ask same question, zprd |
| 12:21.28 | Druid | 01:56 < xx22> hi, after debian update, I got a grub_register_command_lockdown on boot |
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| 12:22.20 | aminvakil | zprd: i didn't have grub2 package installed, not affected then |
| 12:23.04 | zprd | ah |
| 12:23.09 | zprd | gosh |
| 12:23.11 | ratrace | queip: I don't think you can turn a copy into a hardlink post-hoc. should really use all the possibly relevant flags when copying. -aSHAXx |
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| 12:23.40 | zprd | rescue mode + update-grub gave nothing, any clue guys? |
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| 12:24.46 | Druid | sorry idk anything |
| 12:24.50 | Druid | good luck |
| 12:24.52 | ratrace | zprd: bug #984426 |
| 12:24.54 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/984426 in grub-pc (open): «grub suddenly does not boot and ends up with "grub_register_command_lockdown not found"»; severity: important; opened: 2021-03-03; last modified: 2021-03-04. |
| 12:25.12 | zprd | thx I ll have a llok |
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| 12:31.06 | omarek | LVM is oficially bleh. I'm reading the recommended resources at tldp.org, and it says 1) most boot loaders don't understand LVM, 2) root on LVM is for advanced users only. |
| 12:31.35 | omarek | Looks like asking for trouble unless your goal is to learn about LVM. |
| 12:32.02 | omarek | I only started reading and it's already 2 special cases. |
| 12:32.03 | themill | next step is to ask is "most bootloaders" a useful measure of anything. The relevant thing is whether the bootloaders you will actually use support it. |
| 12:32.53 | themill | also, d-i will happily set up /boot outside the lvm for you with about 1 click. |
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| 12:36.29 | ratrace | I concur that LVM is bleh, but not for those reasons. It's because filesystem suites like ZFS or BTRFS are much better for most use casese where LVM is needed. |
| 12:37.12 | omarek | themill: I'm a newbie when it comes to LVM but I'm vaguely experienced with standard partition setup and know how to back it up. |
| 12:38.05 | omarek | I'm also a programmer, so when I see special cases I get uncomfortable. Suppose I want to backup data on my hard drive. If all I have is partitions, it's relatively straightforward. Go over the list of partitions and back up each of them, or make an image with dd. |
| 12:38.23 | omarek | I suppose I can still make a dd image if I use LVM... |
| 12:38.59 | themill | as a programmer, you also know that adding an additional layer of indirection solves all problems. That's what lvm is. |
| 12:39.01 | ratrace | but how do you make a delta of that... or do dd all the data over and over again for each backup run? |
| 12:39.13 | omarek | ratrace: Would you bother with a different filesystem on a M.2 / nvme drive? |
| 12:39.47 | ratrace | I wouldn't bother with anything other than btrfs or zfs regardless of ssd interface, but that's becuse I value my data |
| 12:39.47 | themill | Don't know about you, but encrypted / is basically mandatory. |
| 12:40.00 | ratrace | agreed |
| 12:40.28 | omarek | There are some filesystems optimized for SSDs. |
| 12:40.47 | ratrace | I prefer "data integrity" and "durability" over "optimized for SSD" |
| 12:41.16 | ratrace | for all the volatile data that may perish whenever, and I'll just recreate it, raid0 mdadm atop of sata or nvme SSDs works for me |
| 12:41.26 | omarek | themill: Why encrypted / ? This is a home system. |
| 12:41.45 | ratrace | what do you do with your home system's disk when it dies? |
| 12:42.19 | omarek | ratrace: I boot from an USB, try to mount and salvage data. |
| 12:42.21 | themill | omarek: now you're projecting your use case onto everyone else and telling them that they don't need things. |
| 12:42.31 | omarek | Unless I have a backup. |
| 12:42.42 | ratrace | omarek: I mean what do you do with the physical disk that has died |
| 12:42.48 | themill | work data anywhere near machine == encrypted hard disk. |
| 12:43.06 | ratrace | do you throw it in the garbage? do you melt it? |
| 12:43.26 | omarek | themill: I will likely have to work from home now. |
| 12:44.46 | omarek | ratrace: Obviously I don't see what you're asking for. |
| 12:45.31 | ratrace | omarek: just trying to understand how you deal with data cleanup from the storage device before you recycle it or throw it away. I'm guessing you're not throwing away your data for anyone to pick it up and salvage it, after the disk leaves your home |
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| 12:46.18 | omarek | I've been guilty of failing to set up a proper backup. My plan is to do a proper install now and then set up an rsync process to periodically back it up. |
| 12:46.47 | omarek | I now have 2 large SATA drives, one USB drive, and one M.2 SSD. |
| 12:47.34 | omarek | I'm reading up on btrfs now. |
| 12:48.35 | revolutionary | i am connecting to openvpn server A and i want to connect to openvpn server B from server A but i am getting these errors |
| 12:48.38 | revolutionary | https://bpa.st/R7CA |
| 12:48.42 | ratrace | what I was aiming at was that even "home systems" benefit from encryption. soner or later you're going to retire the storage media. in some cases you won't be able to dd wipe out the data. and for those cases (let alone theft or active snooping or ...), having the data encrypted in the first place is very beneficial |
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| 12:50.07 | omarek | ratrace: Oh I see your point now. I heard it's basically impossible, or at least very time-consuming to truly erase data. You need to write over it with some random patterns or stuff and even then it's not foolproof. |
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| 12:51.46 | omarek | How should I set up my Linux system if I expect to work from home? An employer may want me to run some icky software with potential spyware or whatever. |
| 12:51.54 | ratrace | omarek: there are levels of success proper forensic equipment can achieve when restoring erased data, yes. |
| 12:52.41 | ratrace | omarek: in my experience, single overwrite with random data (crucial: random and not zeroes) should suffice for vast majority of cases, but military grade stuff recommends multiple passes "just in case". proper encryption mitigates all that. |
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| 12:55.24 | ratrace | omarek: you can virtualize the environment for the softwrae you're concerned with |
| 12:58.49 | omarek | The question "How do I set up my Linux system" just got a good deal more complicated. |
| 13:00.16 | ratrace | SecurityIsHard(tm) |
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| 13:09.10 | abff | sihlinux |
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| 13:19.41 | parabyte | okay guys and girls, i been using wodim to write raw data to cdr's without a filesystem how can i do the same with dvd? |
| 13:19.58 | Wulf | parabyte: with wodim too? |
| 13:20.21 | parabyte | i been writing raw data to dvd without a filesystem when i dd off the device i get a full 4.6 or so gigs of data not my expected 3.1 gigs of data |
| 13:20.27 | parabyte | yes Wulf |
| 13:20.35 | parabyte | i used wodim for the cdr writing |
| 13:20.41 | parabyte | let me get the command switches i used |
| 13:21.12 | Wulf | parabyte: do you still get your data, only with some zeros or similar appended? |
| 13:21.51 | parabyte | Wulf, what tool would you use to check this fact? |
| 13:21.58 | parabyte | im assuming a type of hex viewer? |
| 13:22.12 | parabyte | i used this to write the cd media wodim -vv --multi dev=/dev/sr0 -data file19 |
| 13:22.26 | parabyte | its a set of files i used split on that span across multiple media's |
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| 13:23.39 | parabyte | Wulf, iv installed a hex viewer let me just take a gander at my raw file |
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| 13:25.02 | parabyte | Wulf, iv used cdrecord and cdrtools over the years i kinda know the switches without referring to the documentation |
| 13:25.29 | parabyte | but dvd media i have no clue what so ever! its creating a track 1 and adding some padding, im reading the wodim output i enabled -vv to get some verbosity |
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| 13:25.50 | parabyte | from what i can tell my data is on track 2 |
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| 13:28.05 | parabyte | this is a pure case of RTFM |
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| 13:28.12 | parabyte | i will get onto it! |
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| 14:03.19 | parabyte | Wulf, yeah it was padded with zero's |
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| 14:10.26 | magicpl | Hi debian community, I search for ext4 filesystem features documentation such as "needs_recovery". I have possible issue with an ext4 filesystem and I would like to understand all filesystem features from tune2fs. I already searched in tune2fs man.. I would appreciate if someone could give me information. I didn't find it yet on google.. Thank you and have a good day |
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| 14:20.10 | Namarrgon | magicpl: https://ext4.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Main_Page |
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| 14:32.41 | ratrace | magicpl: you'll really need to have a specific question with a specific problem |
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| 14:41.07 | magicpl | thank you Namarrgon, I think that the only place I will have details about it is into the kernel source. I now search into bootlin website for EXT4_FEATURE_INCOMPAT |
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| 14:52.32 | omarek | ratrace: So btrfs brings back... manual defragmentation to Linux world? |
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| 14:54.59 | ratrace | omarek: no, why? |
| 14:55.29 | omarek | ratrace: https://wiki.debian.org/Btrfs#Maintenance |
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| 14:58.39 | ratrace | that's a bit misleading what it says there. but yes, CoW filesystems do fragment more than non-CoW filesystems. there's autodefrag, but mostly you won't need it |
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| 15:00.52 | omarek | ratrace: How do you deal with slow dpkg on btrfs? |
| 15:02.10 | ratrace | I don't |
| 15:02.53 | omarek | ratrace: If I understand correctly, dpkg is either slow or unsafe on btrfs? |
| 15:02.53 | ratrace | I don't see that it's slow. It's fast enough. If it's slower than ext4, so be it. I prefer the features of btrfs that aren't available in ext4 |
| 15:03.20 | ratrace | omarek: based on what did you make that conclusion? |
| 15:03.33 | omarek | That's a bit of shame, because I mainly want to have the system istself on SSD, and I want to see it go BRRR |
| 15:03.55 | ratrace | if you want "go BRRRR" and don't care about data integrity, then btrfs is definitely not for you |
| 15:04.22 | omarek | ratrace: The Debian wiki page. I'm digging through man pages and firefox tabs. |
| 15:04.40 | ratrace | omarek: which sentence exactly says dpkg is either slow or unsafe |
| 15:04.52 | avu | the dpkg faq entry mentions the same problem with ext4 :) |
| 15:05.03 | avu | https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Dpkg/FAQ#Q:_Why_is_dpkg_so_slow_when_using_new_filesystems_such_as_btrfs_or_ext4.3F |
| 15:05.18 | omarek | Is there a high level summary of advantages/disadvantages of BTRFS versus ext4? |
| 15:05.30 | ratrace | ah fsync |
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| 15:06.40 | ratrace | omarek: maybe there is but in short, why I prefer btrfs: data checksumming, auto healing corruption with redundancy, volume management / pooled filesystem, built in raid levels, snapshotting, transparent compression. |
| 15:07.13 | omarek | ratrace: Which of these do you get for free, and which need to be explicitly set up? |
| 15:07.22 | ratrace | I prefer ZFS for the same reason, and I use btrfs and zfs in different roles for increased data durability |
| 15:08.05 | omarek | I have a lot of reading to do. |
| 15:08.29 | ratrace | omarek: data checksumming is always on unless you explicitly disable per file, dir or mount; autohealing is consequence of data checksummiing if you have redundancy (like raid1). volume management is built in. raid levels are built in if you give it more than one device. snapshts are built in. compression needs to be activated per mount, dir or file |
| 15:09.11 | ratrace | there's also deduplication but I never use taht |
| 15:09.42 | omarek | I think it doesn't have innate encryption support so I guess you need to use a third party utility or something... |
| 15:09.51 | ratrace | LUKS |
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| 15:09.54 | omarek | I read that somewhere. |
| 15:10.14 | ratrace | otherwise ZFS has built-in encryption but I don't like it because it doesn't encrypt everything |
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| 15:18.07 | jelly | ,i eatmydata |
| 15:18.09 | judd | Package eatmydata (utils, optional) in buster/amd64: Library and utilities designed to disable fsync and friends. Version: 105-7; Size: 15.4k; Installed: 30k; Homepage: https://launchpad.net/libeatmydata |
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| 15:30.50 | miausX | ratrace: I use software RAID-1 with ext4 for OS and a ZFS mirror for data. Still not sure about btrfs |
| 15:31.55 | miausX | ratrace: those are really small servers, but I really dig that checksumming and autohealing for the data |
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| 15:35.10 | miausX | I plan to migrate from ext4 to btrfs when the Debian Installer fully supports it |
| 15:35.25 | oxek | what do you mean fully supports it? |
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| 15:37.30 | shtrb | anyone can suggest any debian game that I can use joysticks ? |
| 15:37.43 | shtrb | any game , I just need to check joysticks |
| 15:38.13 | abrotman | apt-cache search joystick ? |
| 15:38.19 | miausX | oxek: the wiki sais it doesn't support multi-disk btrfs volumes nor subvolume creation |
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| 15:38.37 | pafymyc | hi! would someone know how to zgrep on all these files: a.log, a.log.1, a.log.2.gz, a.log.3.gz, ..., a.log.15.gz *but on reverse order*? |
| 15:39.02 | miausX | s/sais/says/ |
| 15:40.13 | shtrb | abrotman, I don't need a library :) I'm searching for an already built game :) |
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| 15:40.24 | abrotman | there are games in there, keep reading |
| 15:41.34 | Gramcor | abrotman, hello |
| 15:41.41 | shtrb | ,v joystick |
| 15:41.43 | judd | Package: joystick on amd64 -- jessie: 1:1.4.7-2; stretch: 1:1.6.0-1; buster: 1:1.6.1-1; bullseye: 1:1.7.1-1; sid: 1:1.7.1-1 |
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| 15:50.53 | heydrickx | Hello all |
| 15:50.58 | heydrickx | I've installer pihole on my debian router. It didn't work very well so I removed it and installed it on a raspberry pi where it's working fine. |
| 15:51.04 | heydrickx | However it has apparenly created a mess in my router's dhcp |
| 15:51.09 | heydrickx | I've got a WAN interface for which the IP is not the public IP provided by my internet provider anymore (it was the case before I installed pihole) |
| 15:51.13 | heydrickx | And I've got a bridge between LAN and Wifi. Bridge is still fine but LAN and Wifi now receives IP (they didn't before). I don't know where those IP come frome since they're in a range I never use |
| 15:51.19 | heydrickx | My routeur and internet connections are now erratic. I've read the config files (interface, dhcpcd.conf, dhcpd.conf, ...) but can't find what pihole has changed |
| 15:51.25 | heydrickx | Anyone would have an idea which could help me ? |
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| 15:57.45 | SirFooBar | While I don't actively use Arch, I have a bootloader I installed my distro from the terminal in legacy mode, and the whole install is located in a solitary partition. My system is UEFI capable, but for whatever reason, efi installs always failed. I was stupid enough to install gnome software, even though I use i3. It automatically installed a new |
| 15:57.46 | SirFooBar | kernel version, and of course when it came to updating grub, it failed but never threw a single message. I have booted into live images, mounted the root filesystem and tried reinstalling grub to no avail. The simplest option is for me to back up the data and do a clean wipe, but I have various installs of programs with modded headers and and |
| 15:57.46 | SirFooBar | installed with modified makefiles, so a disk wipe would be a pain in the ass. I can try to explain more in depth, and I can also explain what types of errors it threw when reinstalling grub. |
| 15:58.09 | SirFooBar | Current install is debian |
| 15:58.50 | SirFooBar | I also really don't have the resources nessecary to to a full backup |
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| 16:02.04 | miausX | heydrickx: Hi! |
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| 16:05.08 | heydrickx | miausX, Hello |
| 16:05.51 | miausX | heydrickx: I don't use Pi-hole, but maybe you can take a look at the installer: https://install.pi-hole.net |
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| 16:07.04 | codehotter | I have two interfaces, one configured via dhcp, one static. I want the static one to be the default route. I've set the gateway, and if I disable the dhcp interface, it does work fine, but if I have them both enable the dhcp one gets the default route |
| 16:07.15 | codehotter | how do I configure this in /etc/network/interfaces so that I can have the statically configured one be the default route? |
| 16:07.59 | miausX | heydrickx: I'm interested in your question because I plan to create a similar setup |
| 16:09.39 | heydrickx | miausX, ok. It just wen well until yesterday and my only advice is : do NOT install pihole on your router!!! ^^' |
| 16:11.16 | miausX | heydrickx: noted, thanks :) |
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| 16:11.32 | miausX | heydrickx: are you sure the bridge was created by Pi-hole? |
| 16:12.41 | heydrickx | miausX, no I created the bridge before I installed pihole. All was working fine before pihole. No it just looks like I have two dhcp servers interfering with each others |
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| 16:16.23 | miausX | heydrickx: Pi-hole has a builtin DHCP server. Maybe you have both your router DHCP server and the Pi-hole DHCP server enabled? |
| 16:16.59 | miausX | heydrickx: just an idea... As I said, never used the product |
| 16:17.26 | heydrickx | miausX, I've checked the running services. There was nothing strange on the router but there was indeed a dhpcd service running on the pi (on which I now installed pihole). But shutting down the pi and rebooting the router didn't change anything |
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| 16:19.59 | nmschulte | I noticed that firmware required by nouveau for VA-API / PureVideo hardware codec acceleration is not available in Debian. I don't know if this ever was, but without it or any instruction as to how to acquire the firmware blobs, e.g. h.264 decode acceleration is not available with nouveau and "older" cards (GeForce 8400 GS [rev 2; NV98]). |
| 16:20.19 | nmschulte | Is it possible to improve this situation? |
| 16:22.01 | miausX | heydrickx: OK, so lets find that DHCP server first -> grep dhcp-server /var/lib/dhcp/dhclient.*.leases |
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| 16:24.52 | heydrickx | miausX, I've got 3 lines saying the same thing : option dhcp-server-identifier 85.26.21.1; |
| 16:27.47 | miausX | nmschulte: never used VA-API, sorry... Did you take a look to the wiki? |
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| 16:29.38 | miausX | heydrickx: that's your ISP DHCP server, isn't it? |
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| 16:34.25 | heydrickx | miausX, I guess so. It looks like my public IP |
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| 16:38.20 | miausX | codehotter: that's a good question... Is the static iface defined before the dynamic one? |
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| 16:40.31 | miausX | heydrickx: yep. It looks like your ifaces are missconfigured and your LAN iface is exposed to the WAN |
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| 16:42.15 | heydrickx | miausX, that doesn't look good at all. But I've checked everything a hundred times and sent some pastebins to ##networking and still don't understand what happens. |
| 16:42.17 | miausX | heydrickx: the Pi-hole installed on the Pi has nothing to do with it |
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| 16:42.41 | heydrickx | miausX, No. I did shut it down and restarted the router but got exactly the same situation |
| 16:43.22 | miausX | heydrickx: I'm a bit rusty with these thinks, but I can take a look to the pastebin if you want |
| 16:44.17 | heydrickx | miausX, sure :) thanks. I'm sending them here |
| 16:44.23 | heydrickx | https://pastebin.com/f7BtMHpU |
| 16:44.27 | heydrickx | https://pastebin.com/PzLh6Rd0 |
| 16:44.32 | heydrickx | https://pastebin.com/AfpQdABy |
| 16:44.36 | heydrickx | https://pastebin.com/9FrnM9CS |
| 16:44.41 | heydrickx | https://pastebin.com/UzyuK50V |
| 16:44.45 | heydrickx | https://pastebin.com/vxZMtxbd |
| 16:44.51 | heydrickx | https://pastebin.com/aD8PEKHS |
| 16:44.59 | heydrickx | Here there are ^^ |
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| 16:58.46 | nmschulte | There's not much of anything on the Debian Wiki about Nouveau except blacklisting it when using Nvidia proprietary. |
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| 16:59.48 | ratrace | nmschulte: did you try the new kernel(s) and with that new firmware from buster-backports? |
| 17:00.05 | sney | nmschulte: check if the firmware files you're looking for are present in https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git. if not, then they are simply not distributed for linux |
| 17:00.25 | sney | there might be a way to extract them from the nvidia site somewhere |
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| 17:02.59 | ratrace | nmschulte: did you see this? https://wiki.debian.org/HardwareVideoAcceleration#VA-API |
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| 17:05.16 | miausX | nmschulte: there is an Arch package that extracts the firmware from the NVIDIA binary driver: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Hardware_video_acceleration#NVIDIA |
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| 17:06.07 | neilthereildeil | hey guys |
| 17:06.40 | miausX | hi neilthereildeil |
| 17:06.52 | neilthereildeil | when i setup my fstab file, the UUID has to be the UUID of the root LV, not the VG containing the rootLV, of the GPT UUID of the partitioning containing the VG, right? |
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| 17:07.34 | jelly | nmschulte, is that card too old to have firmware in firmware-misc-nonfree where much of nvidia fw resides? |
| 17:07.58 | jelly | nmschulte, which fw files are not getting loaded? |
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| 17:12.09 | jhutchins | neilthereildeil: Yes, you want the volume, not the container. |
| 17:12.19 | miausX | neilthereildeil: the only UUID I have on my /etc/fstab points to my boot partition |
| 17:12.42 | neilthereildeil | miausX: it should be for ur / parititon, but /boot partition |
| 17:12.54 | neilthereildeil | https://www.thegeekdiary.com/centos-rhel-converting-an-existing-root-filesystem-to-lvm-partition/ says i can just use the LV name? |
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| 17:14.57 | SirFooBar | Hello, does anybody have the time to help me recover a debian install that failed to boot after a kernel update? |
| 17:15.10 | SirFooBar | Because reinstalling is not an option |
| 17:15.38 | miausX | SirFooBar: ouch, sorry about that :( |
| 17:17.14 | miausX | SirFooBar: excuse the silly question... don't you have a second entry on grub to boot from? |
| 17:17.57 | SirFooBar | It is installed in legacy mode because my laptop's efi always tries to boot using fallback directories. This is because I have Windows installed for use at work. |
| 17:18.35 | SirFooBar | After doing research, this is a recurring issue for my laptop model |
| 17:18.56 | SirFooBar | But debian was working fine up until now |
| 17:19.58 | SirFooBar | miausX I had only the debian entry, because it was installed in legacy mode, whereas Windows was installed in EFI mode |
| 17:20.39 | nmschulte | I have the device working; I used extract_firmware.py and latest 340.180 version (check script usage for how to amend versions). one such file is: nouveau/nv98_fuc084 |
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| 17:20.50 | miausX | SirFooBar: oh, I'm really sorry... I never tried that setup. I no longer dual boot on any computer nor use Windows (just in VMs when required) |
| 17:21.40 | nmschulte | I also must apologize: I was intending to continue a conversation after drop, but in #debian-next. |
| 17:22.18 | nmschulte | Probably the issue also applies to stable, as apt-file returns no packages w/ such firmware filenames. |
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| 17:23.15 | SirFooBar | miausX After booting failed, I booted into a live USB, and mounted the filesystem, and tried to reinstall grub. Now I don't even get a grub menu. |
| 17:23.46 | nmschulte | I'm just surprised that, after the firmware is available, nouveau (video; PureVideo; VA-API) hwaccel performs excellent. There is no way to set this up, or ready instructions on debian.org, but there are conveniences for setting up proprietary nvidia driver. |
| 17:24.17 | nmschulte | Seems strange that setting up proprietary driver is more assisted/enabled than the nouveau/mesa paths. |
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| 17:26.01 | nmschulte | (maybe I am also confused: is #debian-next only OFTC, and my convo _was_ here prior?) |
| 17:26.01 | sney | well, it is a wiki. if something is missing, add it |
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| 17:26.57 | nmschulte | certainly. I'm guessing this arcana _is_ documented nicely somewhere |
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| 17:31.55 | miausX | SirFooBar: my setup is really simple (one OS, one bootloader), so I don't know how can I help you, sorry :( |
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| 17:38.02 | SirFooBar | *sigh* so I guess my debian install will remain a dead partition until I can back it up and add the backed up configs to an install on my desktop computer with a much smarter firmware |
| 17:39.43 | miausX | SirFooBar: what computer do you have? Can't you install grub and boot both Debian and Windows from there? |
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| 17:40.26 | miausX | SirFooBar: I did that a long time ago, but that was before UEFI, on BIOS only computers |
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| 17:41.14 | SirFooBar | My install is on my laptop - A Lenovo Ideapad 320 15IAP |
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| 17:42.00 | SirFooBar | miausX and the funny part is, Lenovo products were supposed to be super Linux-friendly. |
| 17:42.56 | SirFooBar | after reading around, the version of grub in debian repositories is literally held together with band-aids |
| 17:43.20 | miausX | SirFooBar: not sure about that, I thought that applies to its corporate line of products (Thinkpads, etc.) |
| 17:43.31 | SirFooBar | Maybe |
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| 17:44.51 | SirFooBar | The issue is that I need windows for work, due to stupid proprietary software that won't run in wine. And my system is what many refer to as a potato, so a VM would be quite slow. |
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| 17:46.26 | miausX | SirFooBar: this is just an idea, but did you take a look at this? -> https://wiki.debian.org/GrubEFIReinstall |
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| 17:47.33 | miausX | SirFooBar: my corporate laptop doesn't pick up grub when installed on EFI, but you can set that up on the firmware, pointing it to the correct path |
| 17:48.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1069] by debhelper |
| 17:48.18 | miausX | SirFooBar: when I said "firmware" I refer to the "BIOS" laptop configuration |
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| 17:54.00 | SirFooBar | miausX Thank you for trying to help, but I think I am just going to back up the data and install some time later. It really is too bad though; I had i3, polybar, and a compositor all set up and looking good. |
| 17:54.27 | SirFooBar | I even made a few posts on /r/unixporn showing off my setup |
| 17:54.51 | miausX | SirFooBar: sorry about that :( |
| 17:56.33 | SirFooBar | This really is a problem with computer manufacturers in general, especially when they are manufacturing laptops. With desktops at least you can pick your motherboard |
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| 17:57.28 | SirFooBar | this dictates the quality of firmware you have |
| 17:57.38 | miausX | SirFooBar: yup. I try to get only business line laptops, just in case. I prefer a used ThinkPad or Latitude before the latest and greatest consumer laptops |
| 17:58.17 | jelly | SirFooBar, which grub package is installed? |
| 17:58.35 | SirFooBar | grub2? |
| 17:58.42 | SirFooBar | x86_64 |
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| 17:58.52 | jelly | output of dpkg -l grub\& | grep ^.i would be nicer |
| 17:59.03 | jelly | ... dpkg -l grub\* | grep ^.i |
| 17:59.21 | miausX | jelly: dammit, that "\" always gets me |
| 17:59.24 | SirFooBar | I am not booted into a live usb right now |
| 17:59.40 | jelly | (that is: is it grub-pc or grub-efi-something64) |
| 18:00.01 | jelly | legacy/bios style or efi style |
| 18:00.23 | SirFooBar | It is legacy |
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| 18:00.38 | jelly | hm. grub-install /dev/sda ought to do the trick then |
| 18:00.46 | SirFooBar | I did that |
| 18:01.01 | jelly | there was a bug a couple months back |
| 18:02.00 | miausX | jelly: how can the computer boot both a MBR installed grub and an EFI Windows? |
| 18:02.05 | SirFooBar | jelly I did grub-install like you said, but it required me to install it using blocklists |
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| 18:03.13 | SirFooBar | miausX that is a question I was unable to answer; the disk is gpt, but debian is in bios mode, and has no biosboot partition |
| 18:03.23 | SirFooBar | it is a wonder how it even installed |
| 18:04.04 | jelly | do we know windows boots in uefi mode? |
| 18:04.25 | SirFooBar | yes because I can verify |
| 18:04.26 | jelly | surely it booted from grub now, if grub deals with the boot process. |
| 18:04.36 | SirFooBar | nope |
| 18:04.49 | jelly | how to do pick which one to boot, then? |
| 18:04.58 | jelly | how do* you* pick |
| 18:05.22 | SirFooBar | I manually switch between uefi mode and bios mode in the firmware menu |
| 18:05.33 | jelly | oh $DEITY |
| 18:05.39 | SirFooBar | they have no idea each other exist |
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| 18:05.53 | SirFooBar | but It worked fine |
| 18:06.06 | jelly | okay. It'd sure be nicer if both booted UEFI |
| 18:06.15 | miausX | yup |
| 18:06.40 | SirFooBar | I have tried with multiple distros, and all of them fail to install grub in UEFI mode |
| 18:07.00 | SirFooBar | the also failed to install in bios mode; all except debian |
| 18:07.07 | jelly | but how knows how ideapad firmware is broken. It's not a thinkpad (those work better with linux) |
| 18:07.20 | jelly | who* knows |
| 18:07.42 | jelly | should probably stop typing for today. |
| 18:07.52 | neilthereildeil | if i have a separate boot partition, where do it specify its UUID? |
| 18:08.08 | miausX | jelly: thank you for trying to help :) |
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| 18:08.56 | SirFooBar | neilthereildeil you want to specify the UUID by listing your disks, and then copying the UUID of your boot partition, and then add it to fstab |
| 18:09.30 | miausX | SirFooBar: can't you install Windows on legacy mode? Not now, but when you reinstall that thing |
| 18:09.43 | neilthereildeil | hmmm it seems on my GPT partitioned machine with no separate /boot partition, there was no /boot entry in fstab |
| 18:10.39 | miausX | SirFooBar: my laptop has three options: legacy boot, UEFI and UEFI+SecureBoot. Maybe try both Debian and Windows with legacy boot? |
| 18:10.52 | SirFooBar | miausX I could but installing windows is a pain in the ass, and if I removed windows I would probably not want to reinstall it anyway. |
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| 18:11.02 | jelly | windows won't work in legacy if they were installed in uefi mode |
| 18:11.10 | SirFooBar | I know |
| 18:11.29 | miausX | jelly: I know, a reinstall will be required for that |
| 18:11.34 | neilthereildeil | does grub need the UUID of the boot partition or the root partition? |
| 18:11.46 | SirFooBar | the thing is, debian and windows should be able to coexist |
| 18:12.16 | jelly | and firmware devs should read and obey the specs, yet here we are |
| 18:12.19 | SirFooBar | neilthereildeil grub needs the location of /boot/efi in order to boot using a gpt disk |
| 18:12.42 | SirFooBar | neilthereildeil how are you installing debian anyway |
| 18:12.51 | neilthereildeil | im modifying an existing installation |
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| 18:13.01 | SirFooBar | neilthereildeil for what? |
| 18:13.07 | miausX | jelly: I have some old laptops that still work fine (8-9 years)... how easy was everything before UEFI |
| 18:13.22 | jelly | neilthereildeil, if you're adding separate /boot, just add it to the fstab and mount it |
| 18:13.32 | SirFooBar | miausX UEFI does make everything more complex |
| 18:13.37 | neilthereildeil | this machine has a GPT partiotion, but no efi |
| 18:13.44 | neilthereildeil | im booting in legacy bios maode |
| 18:14.02 | SirFooBar | neilthereildeil than it won't work |
| 18:14.23 | miausX | SirFooBar: yup... But that's what we have now... |
| 18:14.23 | neilthereildeil | how can i tell if its BIOS boot? i dont remember |
| 18:14.29 | neilthereildeil | i MIGHT be wrong |
| 18:14.44 | SirFooBar | unless you stumble across a unique situation like me, you won't be able to boot like that neilthereildeil |
| 18:14.48 | jelly | neilthereildeil, which grub\* package is installed |
| 18:15.10 | neilthereildeil | jelly: how do i find out? |
| 18:15.33 | SirFooBar | miausX I have found, that bios boots faster than EFI on some machines |
| 18:15.36 | jelly | list installed packages, show the ones with names starting with grub |
| 18:15.45 | neilthereildeil | how? |
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| 18:16.00 | jelly | neilthereildeil, dpkg -l | grep ^.i | grep ' grub' |
| 18:17.09 | jelly | neilthereildeil, run "dpkg -l" on its own. Then append " | grep ^.i" and run that to see what it changed. Then append the second pipe. |
| 18:17.45 | neilthereildeil | grub-common, pc, pc-bin, grub2-common |
| 18:18.01 | jelly | grub-pc is legacy |
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| 18:18.21 | miausX | SirFooBar: I wasn't aware of that... Is something I setup and forget about. Once installed, it keeps that way |
| 18:18.35 | neilthereildeil | ya so im not using efi |
| 18:18.40 | neilthereildeil | but this is agpt disk |
| 18:18.43 | jelly | UEFI is an OS of its own, with drivers and apps. |
| 18:18.44 | neilthereildeil | a gpt |
| 18:19.18 | jelly | neilthereildeil, that's okay (if you have a boot disk larger than 2TiB that's the only way to boot legacy) |
| 18:19.30 | neilthereildeil | yea its larger than 2tb |
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| 18:19.49 | neilthereildeil | ut im changing it now |
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| 18:20.17 | neilthereildeil | Â /boot will be smaller than 2TB and / will be a LV thats big |
| 18:21.00 | jelly | I'm not sure you can convert to LVM in place without reformatting and restoring all the files |
| 18:21.14 | neilthereildeil | thats what im doing |
| 18:21.25 | neilthereildeil | im copying over the files |
| 18:21.29 | neilthereildeil | to my new / |
| 18:21.34 | neilthereildeil | but how do i setup grub? |
| 18:21.46 | neilthereildeil | should i point it to the /boot UUID or / UUID? |
| 18:22.08 | neilthereildeil | Â / is an LV |
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| 18:24.51 | neilthereildeil | alternatively, can i have /boot in an LV? |
| 18:24.58 | neilthereildeil | if so, i can skip this step |
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| 18:25.07 | miausX | neilthereildeil: I don't think so... |
| 18:25.21 | neilthereildeil | hmm ok |
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| 18:25.32 | neilthereildeil | so i have it in a seperate GPT partition |
| 18:25.38 | neilthereildeil | but how do i tell grub about it? |
| 18:25.49 | neilthereildeil | or do i just need to tell it about the root LV? |
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| 18:26.48 | jelly | neilthereildeil, what do you mean "point grub" |
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| 18:27.15 | neilthereildeil | i have to tell grub withere either root is or where /boot is which the kerneles are |
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| 18:27.48 | jelly | neilthereildeil, no you don't, grub-install figures that out automatically if /boot is mounted |
| 18:28.18 | neilthereildeil | ok |
| 18:28.21 | jelly | what is failing, precisely? |
| 18:28.32 | neilthereildeil | but i have to pass grub root=UUID=<UUID> |
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| 18:28.39 | neilthereildeil | nothing is failing yet |
| 18:28.45 | neilthereildeil | im gonna fix up grub and the nreboot |
| 18:28.49 | neilthereildeil | but im pretty sure it will not owrk |
| 18:28.54 | jelly | why do you think you "have to tell grub" then? |
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| 18:29.27 | neilthereildeil | because earlier /boot was on the GPT partition containing /. it was ALL one big partition |
| 18:29.49 | neilthereildeil | now im putting / in an LV, so /boot needs to go in a seperate gpt partition |
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| 18:30.07 | jelly | that's all fine and update-grub and grub-install will be able to deal with it |
| 18:30.11 | neilthereildeil | ok |
| 18:30.23 | jelly | don't invent problems that are not there |
| 18:30.29 | neilthereildeil | do i have to have /boot mount correctly when i irun update-grub? |
| 18:30.43 | jelly | it needs to be mounted, yes |
| 18:31.02 | jelly | because grub's own configuration is there, under /boot/grub |
| 18:31.02 | neilthereildeil | do i have to mark the parition as bootable or anything? |
| 18:31.05 | jelly | no |
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| 18:33.26 | jelly | assuming you're in some live cd preparing things right now, step 1) put all files back in place step 2) mount / and /boot under it, make sure etc/fstab is correct step 3) chroot into your new LVM /, have /sys and /proc and /dev bind-mounted step 4) run update-grub and grub-install /dev/sda step 5) rebuild initrd so that it contains lvm stuff |
| 18:33.46 | jelly | neilthereildeil, install lvm2 package if it's not present for some reason |
| 18:34.37 | jelly | may have done a conversion to lvm or twenty |
| 18:34.53 | miausX | O.o |
| 18:35.24 | jelly | LVM makes some things a lot easier |
| 18:35.40 | neilthereildeil | jelly: 20? nice |
| 18:36.20 | jelly | don't keep count, but we had lots of naively done P2V |
| 18:36.48 | jelly | VMware tools doing Physical to Virtual recreate the exact same disks and partitions. This is silly. |
| 18:37.47 | jelly | so the second or third time after we have to reboot to extend some disks, I convert them to LVM and never have to reboot for that again |
| 18:38.51 | neilthereildeil | jelly: re step 2) i have an entry for full path of root LV in fstab (not UUID). is that OK? |
| 18:39.58 | neilthereildeil | i dont have antying in fstab about /boot... |
| 18:40.03 | jelly | neilthereildeil, there are some debian-specific tricks for fstab and initrd that help, if you use /dev/mapper/vg-lv syntax in fstab and grub pulls it from there for the root=... boot parameter, initrd code will assume that's LVM without checking |
| 18:40.25 | neilthereildeil | ok so then i think fstab is ready |
| 18:40.29 | jelly | neilthereildeil, you need to have every filesystem in fstab if you want it mounted at boot |
| 18:40.38 | jelly | add the new /boot. |
| 18:40.41 | neilthereildeil | oh so i need /boot in fstab also |
| 18:40.45 | neilthereildeil | ok |
| 18:41.01 | jelly | it's okay to use UUID= for that one |
| 18:41.40 | neilthereildeil | ok thats a UUID entry since its a whole GPT [artition |
| 18:42.02 | jelly | it's also okay to use it for root fs but as I said /dev/mapper/vg-lv makes initrd shortcut some of the detection. /dev/vg/lv does not make the same shortcut |
| 18:42.02 | miausX | jelly: it should use the UUID to avoid device name changes that prevent the system from booting, isn't it? |
| 18:42.32 | neilthereildeil | i have /dev/vg/LV syntax |
| 18:42.33 | miausX | jelly: Nice one! I wasn't aware of that syntax trick |
| 18:42.39 | jelly | miausX, sometimes /dev/sda1 becomes /dev/sdb1 yes |
| 18:42.56 | neilthereildeil | ok im gonna update-grub now! |
| 18:42.58 | jelly | neilthereildeil, I'd change that to /dev/mapper/vg-lv in fstab |
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| 18:43.33 | jelly | but it's probably going to work either way, as long as you remember to rebuild initramfs |
| 18:44.30 | jelly | miausX, I only found out after reading the scripts inside initrd |
| 18:44.46 | miausX | wow |
| 18:45.24 | jelly | that basically means something was so broken I had to read scripts inside initrd to figure out what's going on |
| 18:45.33 | jelly | !debug initramfs |
| 18:45.33 | dpkg | from memory, initramfsdebug is http://wiki.debian.org/InitramfsDebug |
| 18:45.35 | jelly | and such |
| 18:46.06 | miausX | jelly: ouch! That doesn't sounds like fun |
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| 18:47.16 | miausX | jelly: I have to ask: how can something break like that? Human error? |
| 18:47.48 | jelly | lots of ways |
| 18:48.02 | jelly | neil could forget to add lvm support to initramfs right now |
| 18:48.27 | jelly | that would result in initrd being unable to find the root filesystem |
| 18:48.35 | neilthereildeil | HMM UPDATE-GRUB ISNT RETURNING |
| 18:48.39 | neilthereildeil | sry for caps |
| 18:48.52 | jelly | neilthereildeil, are you inside chroot? |
| 18:48.56 | neilthereildeil | ya |
| 18:49.03 | jelly | make sure /sys /proc and /dev are bind-mounted |
| 18:49.15 | jelly | people forget /sys |
| 18:49.19 | neilthereildeil | only dev is bind mounted |
| 18:49.21 | ratrace | with -R |
| 18:49.27 | neilthereildeil | https://www.thegeekdiary.com/centos-rhel-converting-an-existing-root-filesystem-to-lvm-partition/ |
| 18:49.40 | jelly | I don't know what -R is so it's probably not essential :-) |
| 18:50.00 | jelly | neilthereildeil, is your system a centos or rhel? |
| 18:50.08 | neilthereildeil | debian |
| 18:50.32 | neilthereildeil | i see grub-mkconfig and grub-probe running... |
| 18:50.38 | neilthereildeil | but still nothing |
| 18:50.45 | ratrace | jelly: recursive bind mount of submounts, there's submounts in dev and sys |
| 18:50.58 | neilthereildeil | should i remount all those with --bind? |
| 18:50.58 | jelly | neilthereildeil, but you did mount a new /sys like that howto says? |
| 18:51.15 | neilthereildeil | ya i did this: mount -t sysfs /sys /sys |
| 18:51.16 | jelly | that would probably be good enough |
| 18:51.50 | miausX | jelly and ratrace: thank you, I learned something new today |
| 18:51.57 | neilthereildeil | i havent killed it |
| 18:52.04 | neilthereildeil | install-grub is still running |
| 18:52.06 | neilthereildeil | but i think its hung? |
| 18:52.16 | jelly | neilthereildeil, did update-grub finish |
| 18:52.22 | neilthereildeil | oops i mean update-grub |
| 18:52.26 | neilthereildeil | update-grub is hund |
| 18:52.30 | neilthereildeil | i havent run install yet |
| 18:52.39 | miausX | Time to disconnect a bit from computers... Bye! :) |
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| 18:52.57 | jelly | neilthereildeil, you could strace it a bit and see what it's doing |
| 18:52.57 | neilthereildeil | iotop doesnt how disk being hit hard or antyhingi |
| 18:53.17 | ratrace | it's probably missing the parts you'd get with -R |
| 18:53.24 | jelly | !wave miausX |
| 18:53.24 | dpkg | waves at miausX |
| 18:54.08 | jelly | ratrace, cgroups and debug stuff doesn't seem too important to make grub work |
| 18:54.09 | neilthereildeil | should i kill it and remount everything with -R? |
| 18:54.51 | jelly | neilthereildeil, you could ^C it but then you won't know what it's hung on. Maybe it's still working |
| 18:55.19 | jelly | neilthereildeil, if you do bind mounts for /sys and /proc, umount them first |
| 18:55.28 | jelly | from the chroot that is |
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| 18:55.31 | ratrace | now comes the fun part |
| 18:55.38 | neilthereildeil | unless its blocked, i dunno what else could be happening. there no CPU being used |
| 18:55.51 | jelly | which is why I suggested you strace the process |
| 18:56.20 | neilthereildeil | i dont actually see update-grub in top |
| 18:56.25 | neilthereildeil | so i dunno how to strace it |
| 18:56.29 | neilthereildeil | i needthe PID |
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| 18:56.44 | ratrace | update grub is just a simple wrapper to grub-mkconfig |
| 18:56.46 | ratrace | look for that |
| 18:56.53 | jelly | that's a script, too |
| 18:57.04 | ratrace | oh it is |
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| 18:58.03 | jelly | neilthereildeil, you can ^Z it and "jobs -p" |
| 18:58.13 | jelly | and then "fg" it back |
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| 18:58.48 | jelly | that'll provide _a_ PID, but not the right one. You can pstree that one to see the tree of processes |
| 18:59.05 | jelly | started from inside the script |
| 18:59.07 | ratrace | or use -f for strace |
| 18:59.49 | jelly | goes back to comparing two almost-binary files by hand |
| 19:00.22 | ratrace | hexdump diff -u :) |
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| 19:03.05 | neilthereildeil | strace reports that grub-mkfs is sruck on a "read(3, " call |
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| 19:03.32 | jhutchins | For some reason, on buster all of my cifs mounts are 755 even though the server's mask is 777, and they mount 777 on a machine running stretch. |
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| 19:04.22 | jhutchins | I'm even using root credentials for the mount. |
| 19:04.35 | neilthereildeil | jelly: ok im gonna unmount everything and remount all 3 with --bind. should i also use -R? |
| 19:04.37 | jhutchins | Server is also running stretch. |
| 19:05.04 | jelly | neilthereildeil, -R won't hurt |
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| 19:06.18 | jelly | neilthereildeil, that strace is interesting, what does lsof -np PID say is file descriptor 3 ? |
| 19:06.40 | jelly | zsh 3701 jelly 3u <- fd 3 CHR 136,0 0t0 3 /dev/pts/0 |
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| 19:06.56 | neilthereildeil | i already killed it |
| 19:07.00 | jelly | noooo |
| 19:07.21 | jelly | :P |
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| 19:10.09 | neilthereildeil | its a pipe |
| 19:12.25 | neilthereildeil | jelly: --bind faild |
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| 19:13.16 | neilthereildeil | mount --bind -t -proc /proc/ /proc/ |
| 19:13.24 | neilthereildeil | bad usage |
| 19:15.03 | neilthereildeil | what am i doing wrong? |
| 19:15.05 | ratrace | mount -t proc proc /proc /mnt/proc |
| 19:15.19 | ratrace | no need to bind proc, you can create a new procfs like this |
| 19:15.47 | ratrace | otherwise you don't specify -t for --bind or --rbind |
| 19:16.10 | neilthereildeil | ok i mounted proc |
| 19:16.16 | neilthereildeil | wha command should i run for sys and dev? |
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| 19:16.25 | neilthereildeil | and before or afterchroot? |
| 19:16.41 | ratrace | and ffs I typod that mount -t proc proc /mnt/proc no that extra src arg needed |
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| 19:17.12 | ratrace | mount -R /dev /mnt/dev ; mount -R /sys /mnt/sys |
| 19:17.29 | ratrace | is that systemd host you're chrooting from? |
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| 19:18.18 | neilthereildeil | its all debian, so i guess? |
| 19:18.24 | neilthereildeil | hmm update-rub hug agin |
| 19:18.26 | neilthereildeil | again |
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| 19:18.45 | jelly | all the bind mounts have to be done from outside into the equivalent dirs within the chroot path |
| 19:18.56 | neilthereildeil | ohhh oops |
| 19:19.05 | neilthereildeil | so before chroot? |
| 19:19.10 | jelly | yes |
| 19:19.26 | ratrace | what the f.... how did those commands even finish without an error from _inside_ chroot? |
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| 19:19.39 | jelly | you're bringing missing stuff into the chroot so that tools that need access to devices, like grub, can work |
| 19:20.21 | neilthereildeil | ok i should prolly reboot. ima little confused now |
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| 19:20.28 | neilthereildeil | im gonna boot back to DVD |
| 19:20.41 | jelly | if you had grml.org as live cd, you'd just do grml-chroot /where/ever |
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| 19:21.06 | neilthereildeil | yea thats what i have. grml |
| 19:21.11 | jelly | heh |
| 19:21.21 | neilthereildeil | should i try that instead of chroot? |
| 19:21.27 | neilthereildeil | or rebooting? |
| 19:21.42 | jelly | first umount all the stuff you already mounted |
| 19:22.03 | jelly | there's probably lots of crap mounted inside the chroot right now |
| 19:22.12 | neilthereildeil | sys is busy |
| 19:22.13 | neilthereildeil | i cant umount it |
| 19:22.14 | ratrace | I'd just reboot |
| 19:22.14 | jelly | neilthereildeil, where is your / mounted? |
| 19:22.23 | neilthereildeil | instide mnt/dst |
| 19:22.32 | jelly | /mnt/dst? |
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| 19:23.05 | jelly | kill that update-grub again |
| 19:23.22 | neilthereildeil | wait im just goona reboot |
| 19:23.24 | neilthereildeil | im getting tired and confused |
| 19:23.48 | jelly | go take a walk if it's legal where you live :-) |
| 19:23.55 | jelly | and remember to hydrate! |
| 19:24.16 | ratrace | now one trick to prevent that problem with umounting sys and dev, run unshare --mount before you start mounting. that will start a new subshell so keep in mind to do extra exit after exiting chroot |
| 19:24.47 | neilthereildeil | im gonna hydrate while thisreboots |
| 19:24.48 | ratrace | without that you can't umount --rbound mounts. otherwise you just --bind but then have issues with some things inside chroot missing shm and other things |
| 19:25.30 | jelly | so, dumb question |
| 19:25.32 | ratrace | and with unshare --mount you don't have to umount anything, just exit the namespace |
| 19:26.03 | jelly | is there a way to pass a '\0' as a parameter to a command in zsh or bash? |
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| 19:26.24 | ratrace | literally like that but double quoted? |
| 19:26.26 | jelly | I need to cdbget $'\004_spf\010croadria\003com\000' but my shell doesn't pass that last \000 |
| 19:26.58 | jelly | netcraft, I mean. strace confirms it |
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| 19:27.45 | jelly | tries bash |
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| 19:28.25 | ratrace | are you passing binary zero, or '\0' literally? |
| 19:29.09 | jelly | $'' is supposed to eval those to corresponding bytes |
| 19:29.49 | jelly | but |
| 19:29.51 | jelly | execve("/usr/bin/cdbget", ["cdbget", "\4_spf\10croadria\3com"], [/* 33 vars */]) = 0 |
| 19:30.30 | jelly | no \0. I need that \0. Or I have to CODE :-) |
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| 19:33.05 | jelly | the $'' shell feature isn't buggy itself, this is fine: echo cdbget $'\004_spf\010croadria\003com\000' |hexdump -C |
| 19:34.40 | jelly | is it execve() itself? |
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| 19:37.24 | vincent- | Hello. I'm trying to run a fully automated Debian installation via PXE. I manage to boot the machine into the Debian installer by using the "vmlinuz", "initrd.gz" and "boot.img.gz" files from this site: http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/buster/main/installer-amd64/current/images/hd-media/ |
| 19:37.31 | vincent- | Now, in order to perform the automated installation I'm trying to use a preseed.cfg file. For that, I'm adding the following kernel options to the kernel command line: "auto url=http://path-to-preseed.cfg" |
| 19:37.41 | vincent- | The Debian installer boots and remains in the screen for language selection, and nothing else happens. Am I doing it wrong? |
| 19:38.11 | vincent- | I am using this preseed, by the way: http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/example-preseed.txt |
| 19:39.09 | ratrace | jelly: I'd just python that baby instead of throwing myself at the mercy of shellscriptology and shenanigans of escape |
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| 19:49.41 | vincent- | I have also tried with "preseed/url=http://path-to-preseed.cfg". Same result. |
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| 19:50.44 | lpancescu | vincent-: when i use http for loading preseeds, it also seems to want the md5 of the file, to be sure it wasn't incompletely downloaded. that works for me, but i boot from a stick, not pxe |
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| 19:51.40 | vincent- | Ok, I will add it and try again. |
| 19:51.49 | lpancescu | vincent-: but if you're using pxe to boot, i think it's easier to just put the preseed on the inird that it gets anyway |
| 19:51.54 | neilthereildeil | damn, grml is STILL booting |
| 19:52.00 | neilthereildeil | it takes 30 minutes to boot |
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| 19:54.00 | vincent- | lpancescu, well, I'm trying to avoid making my own initrd and just use the one provided by Debian. |
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| 19:54.53 | greycat | Debian doesn't actually provide a whole initrd. It provides the framework to build one on demand every time you update kernel, firmware, microcode, etc. |
| 19:55.02 | vincent- | lpancescu, which option do you use for the checksum? "preseed/url/checksum", or a short one? According to the docs "preseed/url" can be shortened to just "url". But I can't find the short version for the checksum. |
| 19:55.06 | lpancescu | vincent-: you can just edit the debian-provided one to add a preseed to it |
| 19:56.24 | lpancescu | i used both the short and long ones, they both works. it's typing md5 hashes that sucks :) |
| 19:57.07 | vincent- | lpancescu, can you tell me the short version for the checksum? I can't find it. |
| 19:57.17 | lpancescu | which you don't have to do if you put the preseed on the initrd. it will be discovered automatically without you doing anything |
| 19:57.52 | vincent- | According to the docs the checksum is optional, so I'm expecting this to not work again. I'm going to try it right now. |
| 20:00.01 | vincent- | Yep, as I was expecting, doesn't work. |
| 20:00.16 | lpancescu | probably preseed-md5, see https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/apbs02.en.html#preseed-loading |
| 20:01.40 | lpancescu | maybe you're missing firmware for the network card or something... try to use your own web server, then you can see if any http request comes through |
| 20:02.00 | lpancescu | passing the two params works fine for me |
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| 20:04.34 | vincent- | I'm using my own web server. The kernel, initrd and the rootfs are loaded just fine. |
| 20:06.08 | lpancescu | that's loaded by the bios, the question is what happens after the kernel loads. do you see a request for the preseed file? |
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| 20:07.55 | vincent- | Oh, wait a sec. I just opened a console and looked at the output of "ip a". Only the loopback device is there :-( That's the problem. |
| 20:08.23 | lpancescu | there's a shell available on VT2 and the syslog available on VT4, maybe you see something there |
| 20:09.00 | lpancescu | yup. if the bios/uefi recognize your network card, it doesn't mean the kernel also will... |
| 20:09.40 | lpancescu | you can try the unofficial installer images containing firmware, maybe that helps |
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| 20:11.57 | jelly | ratrace, argv[][] takes NUL terminated strings, #bash put the blame on C language, and unix and linux kernel just inherited that. You can't pass parameters containing '\0' to commands on this OS. |
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| 20:15.16 | vincent- | lpancescu, uhm, I could try those unofficial images, yes. Do you happen to have a URL for that? |
| 20:15.45 | jelly | !firmware images |
| 20:15.45 | dpkg | There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The images are "unofficial" because "official Debian" includes only 100% free software. They are otherwise identical to the normal installer images and prepared by the same Debian Developers. See <check iso>. |
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| 20:16.30 | leonardus | I'm on a netinstall trying to set up Android tethering so I can install wifi drivers https://wiki.debian.org/Android_Tethering |
| 20:16.34 | leonardus | but it doesn't look like I have ifconfig |
| 20:16.36 | lpancescu | jelly: vincent- boots from pxe |
| 20:16.40 | leonardus | I see the phone in "ip link" though |
| 20:16.50 | greycat | !ifconfig |
| 20:16.50 | dpkg | Starting with Debian 9 (stretch), the net-tools package which has the ifconfig, netstat, route commands is not installed by default. You may install net-tools if you wish. Remember: /sbin/ifconfig and /sbin/route are not in a normal user $PATH. net-tools is deprecated; replacement commands include «ip a» and «ss» and «ip r». |
| 20:16.50 | leonardus | what's the proper way to configure it for networking? |
| 20:17.07 | leonardus | greycat: I can't install any packages, I don't have wifi |
| 20:17.32 | greycat | I was simply triggering the explanation for why you don't have ifconfig |
| 20:17.33 | jelly | lpancescu, there ought to be netboot files around there somewhere |
| 20:18.54 | leonardus | I got it working, nvm |
| 20:19.28 | lpancescu | i only found https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/NetbootFirmware |
| 20:19.39 | lpancescu | vincent-: ^ |
| 20:20.20 | lpancescu | you might as well put the preseed on the initrd if you have to change it anyway... :) |
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| 20:21.51 | jelly | oh, right, netboot images are on regular mirrors not cdimage |
| 20:22.49 | vincent- | lpancescu, that's what I'm trying now. I think if it works, it would be good enough. It's just concatenating the firmware to the initrd. Not that bad. |
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| 20:28.57 | vincent- | lpancescu, apparently is not that easy. I may have the firmware, but it looks like the kernel is lacking the module for my ethernet card. |
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| 20:32.19 | lpancescu | vincent-: you can also add modules to the initrd |
| 20:33.03 | lpancescu | or you can give up and use a usb stick like everybody else :) |
| 20:33.12 | vincent- | That's probably what I need to do. It's a well known module, "igb", for Inter gigabit cards, I'm surprised it's not included by default. |
| 20:33.32 | vincent- | lpancescu, no way, we have more than 200 machines. We want to automate this thing. |
| 20:34.02 | vincent- | *Intel |
| 20:35.29 | lpancescu | oh. i thought you have just one raspberry pi or something like that :) |
| 20:37.05 | lpancescu | did you try a debian live-cd with firmware, does that work? if your hardware is new enough, it might not be recognized by the 4.19 kernel in stable |
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| 20:38.48 | lpancescu | or even an unofficial installer image with firmware, i'd try that before trying to change an initrd - if the network card is still not seen, you might need a newer kernel |
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| 20:39.41 | vincent- | Oh, the hardware is not that new. We have manually installed Debian on those machines already. |
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| 20:48.09 | NetTerminalGene | does firefox on bullseye really hw decode of videos? |
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| 20:49.38 | sney | the only firefox in bullseye is firefox-esr, which is currently the same version as buster-security |
| 20:49.54 | sney | do you mean firefox 86 which is only in sid? |
| 20:50.02 | NetTerminalGene | dunno |
| 20:50.23 | NetTerminalGene | i read it somewhere that firefox can hw accel the videos |
| 20:50.27 | greycat | You don't know what your own question is. |
| 20:50.28 | NetTerminalGene | on bullseye |
| 20:51.25 | sney | I'm on bullseye and I use firefox from sid, but I don't know how to tell if videos in it are using hardware acceleration |
| 20:51.47 | sney | I would guess probably unless it requires a non-free component |
| 20:51.50 | NetTerminalGene | "As of Debian 11/Bullseye, VA-API support is enabled by default in Chromium and Firefox. However, in the case of Firefox, it currently only works on Wayland desktops. GNOME Web has VA-API support through the gstreamer1.0-vaapi package if installed. " |
| 20:51.59 | NetTerminalGene | https://wiki.debian.org/HardwareVideoAcceleration |
| 20:52.20 | sney | wayland only, I guess I don't have it then |
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| 21:14.18 | Okee | During bootup I noticed that in recovery mode I have both kernel 4.19, and kernel 5.10. How do I purge my system of this unexpected anticle? |
| 21:14.48 | greycat | remove the package you don't want, but seriously, it's good to have a backup kernel just in case |
| 21:15.22 | greycat | also, dict says no defintions found for anticle |
| 21:15.53 | sney | the opposite of a miracle, or maybe 'article' with a typo |
| 21:16.29 | Okee | greycat> My understanding is that the kernel 4.19 will not run on this laptop so adding something newer might be in order? |
| 21:16.58 | greycat | well, if it doesn't boot then I suppose removing it would be harmless |
| 21:17.24 | Okee | greycat> How do I remove it? I will try booting from it before actually removing it. |
| 21:17.51 | Okee | I recall that the system wouldn't boot on it during the install. |
| 21:17.54 | sney | oh, this is urk again, isn't it? nobody else uses > |
| 21:19.09 | Okee | sney> Hexchat wouldn't let me keep my real identity, and altered me. |
| 21:19.31 | greycat | if you don't know how to see the installed packages, you've got no business running testing or unstable |
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| 21:19.59 | sney | greycat: if you're going to engage with this guy, be prepared for days and days of saying the same thing repeatedly. anyway, it's buster with backports. |
| 21:20.28 | Okee | greycat> I am running stable. |
| 21:20.37 | sney | Okee: that is the wrong interpretation. hexchat does not care about your nick. if the network made you change, it was because someone (maybe you!) registered urk with a password. |
| 21:20.46 | sney | you are really good at wrong interpretations, though. |
| 21:20.47 | greycat | well, you can use dpkg -l to see the installed packages |
| 21:21.10 | greycat | there is an urk logged in |
| 21:21.19 | greycat | 16:21 Urk [~pdq@2601:647:5c80:2730::1] |
| 21:21.20 | greycat | 16:21 Okee [~pdq@2601:647:5c80:2730::1] |
| 21:21.23 | sney | lol |
| 21:22.25 | greycat | so you might want to look for other clients running, or perhaps ask nickserv to ghost you |
| 21:22.51 | sney | !tell Okee -about refcard |
| 21:22.55 | sney | !tell Okee -about handbook |
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| 21:23.31 | sney | Okee: look in your messages from the dpkg bot, almost every question you have about debian like "how do I remove a package" is answered in the first link, and there's more detail in the second one. |
| 21:23.50 | *** join/#debian Urk (~pdq@2601:647:5c80:2730::1) |
| 21:23.57 | sney | (and if you come to #debian with questions answered by the refcard, people here will have less and less patience for you) |
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| 21:24.20 | leonardus | My wifi firmware isn't loading and has some errors on line 806 here https://paste.debian.net/hidden/872a36f2/ |
| 21:24.22 | leonardus | any ideas? |
| 21:25.11 | sney | leonardus: file not found. do you have firmware-iwlwifi installed? if so, you probably need a newer version of it. |
| 21:25.16 | sney | ,v firmware-iwlwifi |
| 21:25.17 | judd | Package: firmware-iwlwifi on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 0.43; jessie-security/non-free: 20161130-5~deb8u1; stretch/non-free: 20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-2~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-2; buster-backports/non-free: 20200918-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 20201218-3; sid/non-free: 20210208-3 |
| 21:25.23 | greycat | another solution to okee's dilemma is "do nothing", because having the second kernel sitting there doesn't hurt, other than occupying a bit of disk space |
| 21:25.38 | greycat | Debian will try to keep your two most recent kernels installed by default. |
| 21:25.47 | leonardus | sney: I do, version 20190114-2 |
| 21:25.58 | sney | leonardus: try with the version from buster-backports, then. |
| 21:26.05 | greycat | ... shit, they already left. |
| 21:26.26 | leonardus | sney: I have buster-backports in my sources.list but I don't know how to force the package to install from there |
| 21:26.36 | sney | greycat: don't worry, you'll have another chance to repeat yourself with that one |
| 21:26.44 | sney | leonardus: apt -t buster-backports install ... |
| 21:27.13 | greycat | !buster-backports |
| 21:27.13 | dpkg | Some packages intended for Bullseye (Debian 11) but recompiled for use with Buster (Debian 10) can be found in the buster-backports repository. See http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ . Ask me about <bdo>, <backports>. |
| 21:27.17 | greycat | http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ |
| 21:28.15 | leonardus | sney: hey, I think that did the trick! thanks! |
| 21:28.21 | sney | np |
| 21:29.18 | leonardus | and one more thing, when I boot I get these messages, are they anything to be concerned about? https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/MuspA7zS/image.png |
| 21:29.22 | leonardus | or can I just ignore them? |
| 21:29.35 | sney | that's normal on an encrypted LVM system |
| 21:29.41 | leonardus | understood, thanks |
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| 21:30.36 | Urk | sney> The following is a print out from dpkg -l http://paste.debian.net/1187912/ |
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| 21:31.27 | sney | !tell Urk -about refcard |
| 21:31.33 | sney | !tell Urk -about handbook |
| 21:31.40 | sney | Urk: look in your messages from the dpkg bot, almost every question you have about debian like "how do I remove a package" is answered in the first link, and there's more detail in the second one. |
| 21:31.54 | sney | (and if you come to #debian with questions answered by the refcard, people here will have less and less patience for you) |
| 21:31.56 | oxek | sney: normal, but annoying |
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| 21:34.14 | sney | oxek: yeah, if I were developing lvm's logic for "is this volume encrypted?" I would at least include a way to squelch those messages. but as is, hmm, you get used to it |
| 21:35.23 | oxek | yes, we get used to it, but every new person comes up to me asking about this "warning" |
| 21:37.37 | sney | #794971 says that you can hide the messages by changing an initramfs-tools script. |
| 21:37.38 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/794971 in lvm2 (open): «lvm2: Volume group not found, unable to find LVM during boot»; severity: normal; opened: 2015-08-08; last modified: 2018-10-24. |
| 21:38.59 | oxek | "Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015" Maybe it's time something be done about this... |
| 21:39.32 | sney | debian usually doesn't like hiding cosmetic warnings, because they can be informative during troubleshooting |
| 21:39.52 | sney | there may be a middle ground somewhere, idk what it is |
| 21:39.52 | oxek | but in this case, it is misleading rather than informative |
| 21:40.43 | oxek | I really don't like warnings where the answer is "Just ignore it, it's like that on every system and doesn't matter at all" |
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| 22:07.00 | jhutchins | Ok, this is really strange. Service samba status shows it masked and dead, yet I'm able to access files. |
| 22:08.22 | jhutchins | Is there something else that provides samba/cifs in systemd? |
| 22:08.39 | jhutchins | This is a stretch system, and I've never had trouble accessing it. |
| 22:09.28 | sney | I think only illumos has the in-kernel cifs server. is it possible that there's some other samba daemon running via some other method? inetd? |
| 22:10.36 | sney | 'ss -lp' and look for the 139 and 445 entries |
| 22:10.44 | greycat | if it's listening on TCP, you could ask lsof or ss what's on that port |
| 22:11.27 | jmcnaught | jhutchins: smbd.service? |
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| 22:12.02 | jhutchins | jmcnaught: That's what it says is masked and dead. |
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| 22:12.39 | jhutchins | D'oh! |
| 22:12.41 | jhutchins | smbd |
| 22:14.09 | zodd | What is the desired document-root, ownership and chmod settings for serving Matomo using NGinx? Package installs stuff in /etc/matomo and /usr/share/matomo. Security wise I just wonder... |
| 22:14.35 | jhutchins | jmcnaught: Do you run cifs? |
| 22:16.04 | jmcnaught | jhutchins: just a simple read-only share from my desktop to a Windows system |
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| 22:20.24 | SymbioticFemale | how do i tell mount to ignore write-protection on a USB? mount -w is not doing it |
| 22:20.39 | jhutchins | That's pretty much all this is, central stretch server for single-source storage, sharing files, backups. |
| 22:21.06 | jhutchins | SymbioticFemale: You put an entry in fstab. |
| 22:22.31 | dob1 | where do I read sftp errors? |
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| 22:24.01 | dob1 | do I find |
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| 22:25.40 | SymbioticFemale | jhutchins: nope. doesn't do it. doesn't change it. |
| 22:25.52 | SymbioticFemale | jhutchins: still mount refuses to mount it rw |
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| 22:30.34 | leonardus | I'm trying to follow the instructions at ` https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#iwd `, but the iwd service won't start when I try to run `systemctl --now enable iwd`. Here's the output of `journalctl | grep iwd`: http://termbin.com/ht10 |
| 22:30.41 | leonardus | I made sure that wpa_supplicant is not installed |
| 22:30.54 | jhutchins | !user accessible ntfs |
| 22:30.54 | dpkg | To get an NTFS or VFAT file system accessible by users and groups on the local machine, man mount; man 5 fstab; and read about the umask, fmask, dmask, uid, and gid options. You'll end up sticking something like conv=auto,uid=<user>,gid=<group>,dmask=0002,fmask=0003 into your fstab's mount option field. |
| 22:31.24 | genr8_ | leonardus, thats complaining about your kernel |
| 22:31.30 | jhutchins | SymbioticFemale: /dev/sr0 /media/cdrom0 udf,iso9660 user,noauto 0 0 |
| 22:31.33 | genr8_ | there is a mismatch. |
| 22:31.52 | leonardus | genr8_: I'm using the surface-linux kernel, is it incompatible? |
| 22:31.55 | jhutchins | Hm, that might not be it. |
| 22:32.10 | genr8_ | leonardus, it appears like it is. |
| 22:32.58 | genr8_ | leonardus, you would have to recompile it yourself, and add those 3 options (it would lose factory secureboot signing). im not sure if thats viable or not. |
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| 22:33.32 | jhutchins | SymbioticFemale: I see a suggestion of UUID=8C52-C1CD /home/storage auto user,umask=000,utf8, -->noauto<-- 0 0 |
| 22:33.57 | jhutchins | SymbioticFemale: I'm afraid the system where I had it set up may be dead and gone, let me keep digging. |
| 22:34.10 | jhutchins | SymbioticFemale: There's always google, plenty of responses there. |
| 22:34.22 | genr8_ | leonardus, theres also an off chance, that you can run the 'iwd' service with some --disablesomefeature option to prevent it from wanting extra stuff. but it might actually be crucial to the core of IWD, not sure |
| 22:34.53 | leonardus | I'll probably just use NetworkManager instead |
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| 22:36.18 | jhutchins | SymbioticFemale: Yeah, it's gone sorry. But making an entry for fstab is what you do. |
| 22:36.29 | SymbioticFemale | jhutchins: alright |
| 22:36.55 | jhutchins | I wonder how many computers ago that wasy... |
| 22:37.12 | genr8_ | see if you can google "iwd wireless daemon disable RC4" or something |
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| 22:40.58 | genr8_ | actually, im reading the source code, and it does not look hopeful |
| 22:41.44 | genr8_ | seems to be very built into the EAPOL component (Extensible Authentication Protocol) |
| 22:42.04 | SomethingGeneric | leonardus, I had arch on my surface using surface-linux, and NetworkManager worked fine once I followed the instructions to grab the correct binary driver. |
| 22:42.58 | genr8_ | not sure whats worse, NM or Intel binaries on linux :P |
| 22:43.27 | SomethingGeneric | genr8_, if you've already got SystemD why not go for it?? /s |
| 22:43.56 | genr8_ | indeed |
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| 22:44.26 | genr8_ | grumbles and goes back to gentoo configuration |
| 22:44.42 | SomethingGeneric | Nah but leonardus, if you don't want to poke around in IWD source code you'll probably want to just go with NM |
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| 22:45.00 | SomethingGeneric | genr8_, glad I'm not the only non-debian daily driver in this chat lol. (I use arch btw) |
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| 22:45.33 | SomethingGeneric | doesn't have to worry about arch config because Manjaro gang |
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| 22:50.31 | leonardus | should backports be at the top or bottom of sources.list? |
| 22:50.34 | leonardus | does it matter? |
| 22:50.53 | leonardus | SomethingGeneric: tried networkmanager and it does seem to work, now just trying one last time with iwd |
| 22:51.24 | imMute | leonardus: no, order doesn't matter. |
| 22:51.40 | SomethingGeneric | leonardus, glad to hear that :) (But yes, def keep poking at IWD) |
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| 22:54.20 | genr8_ | It does seem very unusual that the surface kernel does not have those options. i checked all my debian kernels and debian makes sure to have those options |
| 22:54.58 | leonardus | genr8_: got this answer in ##linux-surface: As far as I can tell, the latest kernel has `CONFIG_CRYPTO_USER_API_SKCIPHER=m` and `CONFIG_CRYPTO_ECB=y`. `CONFIG_CRYPTO_ARC4` seems to be disabled as that seems to be considered obsolete (it at least depends on `CONFIG_CRYPTO_USER_API_ENABLE_OBSOLETE`) |
| 22:55.02 | genr8_ | may want to complain upstream, they seem like normal stuff and can be built as a module |
| 22:55.13 | genr8_ | ah hah |
| 22:55.19 | genr8_ | that makes sense |
| 22:55.34 | genr8_ | they actually secured you to the point of breaking Intels own junk |
| 22:55.42 | genr8_ | i'd complain to intel then lol. |
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| 22:57.06 | genr8_ | RC4 is definitely obsolete and I agree with it being disabled. unfortunately the intel iwd daemon doesnt seem to account for this likelyhood. |
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| 22:57.31 | SomethingGeneric | wonders about intel binaries vs IBM binaries (lol) |
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| 22:58.47 | genr8_ | the CONFIG_CRYPTO_USER_API_ENABLE_OBSOLETE came about in kernel 5.10 |
| 23:00.08 | ryouma | i am using the grml-rescueboot package. is this supposed to download the latest grml, or must i do that manually? my grml.*.iso is many years old in oldstable, so i downloaded manully, but the signature is expired: http://sprunge.us/RiJV8W . is it the .asc file that is expired, or something in my .gnupg that is expired? i tried various scripts and options to update keys but they all ran into issues. |
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| 23:01.23 | Unit193 | I think we use that package entirely differently. I pop an ISO into /boot/grml/ then update grub, I've never actually used it with grml itself. |
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| 23:04.38 | alex11 | what do i need to do to install the backported nvidia driver, anything special? |
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| 23:04.54 | alex11 | i know the syntax i just wonder if i need headers or something |
| 23:05.17 | genr8_ | ryouma, try against the latest copy of his signing key https://grml.org/download/gnupg-michael-prokop.txt |
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| 23:07.33 | genr8_ | this page also talks about the repo signing keyring stuff https://grml.org/files/ |
| 23:08.57 | ryouma | thanks for some reason i missed that. do i do gpg --import on the .txt file? |
| 23:09.29 | ryouma | Unit193: idk, i probably did the same, dling then putting it in that dir, if the package does not dl. dunno why that would bre different between youa n me. |
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| 23:11.08 | genr8_ | yes i think so |
| 23:11.27 | ryouma | thanks |
| 23:11.28 | ryouma | i don't understand teh package repo page you linked |
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| 23:12.15 | genr8_ | it wants you to integrate it into debian, instead of downloading manually |
| 23:13.17 | ryouma | ok thanks, i think i will skip that for now as it would add more complexity than i can deal with atm. i got rid of my apt preferences file to reduce complexity :/. |
| 23:13.45 | ryouma | well the expired sig worked great, with no gpg warning. but with the newly downloaded sig i get "gpg: WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted signature! gpg: There is no indication that the signature belongs to the owner." |
| 23:14.17 | ryouma | so this means i need more ... signers in my .gnupg? can i leverage debian maintainers keyring or some such thing to get enough to make this verification work? |
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| 23:15.23 | genr8_ | thats the correct line of thinking but the warning could also be ignored as long as you're sure you trust his key |
| 23:15.34 | ryouma | specifically http://sprunge.us/kRwxay |
| 23:16.11 | genr8_ | link is blank |
| 23:16.34 | leonardus | NetworkManager is working except it doesn't automatically connect on boot, I have to manually type `nmcli con up <ssid>` every time. But in nmtui, the option to automatically connect is checked. |
| 23:16.56 | ryouma | genr8_: http://sprunge.us/N4xd35 |
| 23:17.53 | genr8_ | i would just sign it / trust it with myself. |
| 23:18.16 | genr8_ | do your own side verification. I found this https://gist.github.com/mika/12965b22b44ccdf08ba3 |
| 23:18.34 | ryouma | well, i don't know if the key is trustable. i'd hope i can importa few keys that have a chain of trust. |
| 23:18.53 | ryouma | the last one of which will sign that one |
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| 23:19.21 | realtime-neil | How do I prevent a given package's preinst maintainer script from running? |
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| 23:20.48 | ryouma | not sure what i would do with that mika thing, don't want to dl a program to do a second verification, as that's a bit reciusive sounding. perhaps i misunderstand (highly likely(). |
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| 23:22.06 | genr8_ | yes you misunderstood. unfortunately his "mika" account on keybase is gone... but based on the 7 year github otherwise it looks to be him |
| 23:22.28 | genr8_ | the trust does not need to be automatic, as long as you can conduct your audit yourself on google manually |
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| 23:23.14 | genr8_ | i dont do much key-signing-sharing so Idk how to go about finding others |
| 23:25.13 | genr8_ | gpg: key 96A87872B7EA3737: 289 signatures not checked due to missing keys |
| 23:25.32 | genr8_ | does that mean theres 289 people who signed his ? and we need to go find them ? |
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| 23:27.11 | genr8_ | i'm missing a lot of knowledge on this. |
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| 23:34.16 | ryouma | my knowlegge is even slimmer. but i have sigs in my .gnupg that i trust, although some are expired. these include e.g. peter palfrader and steve mcintyre and some who are in debian's downloaded db of sigs. i figure if THAT list of sigs is compromised then the whole sytem is vulnerable. so i trust it. so for the OLD grml signing key, my verification worked perfectly. except, it is an expired key. so i figure my |
| 23:34.16 | ryouma | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:36.08 | ryouma | but idk what to do to do that. i tried some kind of key signing path thing on the web but the site was down or something. then i tried wotsap and set it up and it says it can't find palfrader or mcintyre keys which... is a bit disturbing as those are super common signing keys. |
| 23:37.13 | ryouma | i wish this part could be automated. like "ok, you have keys you trust in your .gnupg. and you have debian's thing. so, populate your .gnupg with some keys to create a path from the stuff in your .gnupg now, to the sig you care about being signed." |
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