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| 00:16.02 | hop | must be a full moon tonight |
| 00:18.05 | greycat | Even worse. It's election night. |
| 00:19.01 | hop | thanks for explaining my joke to me |
| 00:28.08 | randombit | lol |
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| 01:52.50 | icypee | hello |
| 01:53.08 | icypee | how do i get the fingerprint scanner on my thinkpad working with debian? |
| 01:54.06 | hop | icypee: lenovo probably has a support forum |
| 01:54.16 | sney | http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Integrated_Fingerprint_Reader |
| 01:54.58 | icypee | i tried that on xfce and gnome and they both didn't work |
| 01:55.07 | sney | !doesn't work |
| 01:55.08 | dpkg | "Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>. |
| 01:55.43 | icypee | i tried installing fprintd on xfce and gnome and the prompt to scan my fingerprint wouldn't appear |
| 01:57.59 | sney | did you identify your model of reader, and whether fprint supports it, and if you need to do anything else? remember #debian can't see your screen or read your mind, so it's best if you say what you already tried |
| 01:58.24 | icypee | yes it supports it |
| 01:58.34 | icypee | it reads my fingerprint in fprintd-enroll |
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| 06:18.24 | cheater | hi. in dpkg-query, what's the difference between Status-Status and Status-Want? my guess is that "Status-Status: installed" means that the package is installed right now, while "Status-Want: installed" means it's either installed now or will be installed after some sort of job runs, but I don't really know how that works exactly. |
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| 06:31.13 | unixbsd | Hello, How to plot DOS functions, fermy in linux debian?`are there tools for this for chem/physics? |
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| 06:37.43 | jmcnaught | unixbsd: https://www.debian.org/blends/ check out DebiChem and Debian Science, view their metapackages links to browse the packages they include. |
| 06:38.28 | alex11 | i was going to say the same but didn't want to be lazy |
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| 06:41.07 | unixbsd | I would need to plot fermy and bonds. I check this webpage in 5 min. thank you #debian ! |
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| 07:26.10 | uos_lyn | Hello everyone, I have fixed a bug in Debian Qt and fixed it. How can I submit patch to debian warehouse |
| 07:26.43 | cheater | what's the difference between a package's state and its selection state? |
| 07:26.48 | cheater | what do the selection states do? |
| 07:26.57 | cheater | and why aren't they the same thing as package states? |
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| 07:33.14 | themill | cheater: dpkg --set-selections is one of the places where selection state doesn't match state; partly failed package installations or removals is another |
| 07:34.05 | cheater | thanks! |
| 07:34.15 | cheater | :) |
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| 09:23.53 | ksk | uos_lyn: if there is already an open bug for that in the bts, you can most likely submit a patch to it. |
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| 09:41.46 | Lope | anyone here installed noise-repellent on debian? |
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| 09:48.59 | otisolsen70 | I just got an OOM event last night. Appearently triggered by dhcpd (kernel: dhcpd invoked oom-killer: gfp_mask=0x6200ca(GFP_HIGHUSER_MOVABLE), nodemask=(null), order=0, oom_score_adj=0) Are there any resion why dhcpd would take up a huge amount of memory? |
| 09:49.07 | otisolsen70 | Possible memory leak? |
| 09:49.56 | azeem | dhcpd just triggered it, it doesn't mean that it takes huge amounts |
| 09:50.23 | azeem | probably best to pastebin the whole message (there should be more lines following with diagnostics), though those are pretty hard to decipher IME |
| 09:50.28 | azeem | !paste |
| 09:50.28 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://filebin.net or https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>. |
| 09:51.03 | azeem | Lope: doesn't look like that noise-repellent is packaged? |
| 09:51.08 | Lope | azeem, nope |
| 09:51.20 | Lope | do you guys know how to add a lv2 plugin in debian? |
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| 09:51.41 | Lope | I've got the plugin files, and have added them to a dir in /usr/lib/lv2/ but it's not showing up. |
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| 09:52.50 | jelly | ,i lv2 |
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| 09:52.51 | judd | No package named 'lv2' was found in buster/amd64. |
| 09:52.57 | jelly | Lope: what is lv2? |
| 09:53.47 | jelly | judd: file usr/lib/lv2 |
| 09:53.52 | judd | No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file. |
| 09:54.09 | Lope | jelly, audio plugin |
| 09:54.16 | azeem | for what? |
| 09:54.29 | azeem | can you be a bit more specfic, we don't know at all what you are talking about |
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| 09:57.22 | jelly | ,i lv2-dev |
| 09:57.24 | judd | Package lv2-dev (libdevel, optional) in buster/amd64: LV2 audio plugin specification. Version: 1.14.0~dfsg1-2; Size: 107.3k; Installed: 717k; Homepage: http://lv2plug.in/ |
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| 10:01.00 | Lope | apt install lilv-utils |
| 10:01.03 | Lope | lv2ls |
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| 10:02.18 | Haohmaru | jelly lv2 is a kind of linux-ish audio plugin format, so there would be host programs that load these, and a pile of lv2 plugins |
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| 10:03.03 | Haohmaru | Lope you just uhm.. install it and then make your host refresh/rescan for new plugins |
| 10:03.10 | Haohmaru | it should just work(TM) |
| 10:03.26 | uos_lyn | ksk: It is a Qt bug, and Qt official has been submitted to the patch that has been repaired, but there are not yet Patches in debian, so We want to submit it to Debian as well |
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| 10:05.09 | Lope | Haohmaru, how do you refresh? |
| 10:05.33 | Haohmaru | consult your Host's documentation? |
| 10:05.54 | Lope | eh, will try a good old reboot. |
| 10:05.59 | Haohmaru | bruh |
| 10:06.08 | Lope | I've been hassling with this shit for 20 mins |
| 10:06.19 | Lope | lv2ls shows my new plugin |
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| 10:09.16 | Haohmaru | check your host, who knows how it does it.. other plugin formats usually require manual rescanning because dodgy plugins can often cause the Host to freeze/crash or what not |
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| 10:18.48 | Lope | Haohmaru, thanks |
| 10:19.26 | otisolsen70 | azeem, found the entire log/trace and pasted here: http://paste.yt/p13065.html (from oom killer) |
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| 10:30.47 | azeem | otisolsen70: looks like pypy (whatever it did) and then restic took the most mem from a first glance |
| 10:31.21 | azeem | and the kernel oom'd the former: |
| 10:31.23 | azeem | [1209514.695034] oom_reaper: reaped process 14504 (pypy), now anon-rss:0kB, file-rss:0kB, shmem-rss:0kB |
| 10:31.58 | otisolsen70 | otisolsen70, ok. That makes sense. I did have a big pypy program running at that time now that I think about it. |
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| 11:19.10 | wonderworld | hey, i am having problems with /etc/hosts. It doesn't seem to be honored at all. i have "hosts: files dns" in nsswitch.conf but still if i check a hostname set in /etc/hosts, still the external dns is used |
| 11:20.58 | ratrace | wonderworld: pastebin your hosts file, I bet it's in wrong format |
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| 12:30.13 | otisolsen70 | Is there a good tool in Debian to generate web based (static) galleries of my photo collection? |
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| 12:31.56 | gpunk | try copper-mine |
| 12:32.15 | gpunk | or apt search web gallery :p |
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| 12:33.34 | gpunk | and FYI: generating web based static is nonsense, if it is generated ... it in not static ...especially by Web |
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| 12:34.59 | otisolsen70 | gpunk, what package is copper-mine in? |
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| 12:38.44 | otisolsen70 | gpunk, huh? I want something that takes a folder with photos and generates static html/css/javascript + thumbnails, etc. that I can put on a webserver (or browse locally) as a web gallery |
| 12:39.04 | otisolsen70 | gpunk, something like lazygal for example. Howerver, I would like something that is better or more modern. |
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| 12:40.12 | govext | gpunk what you said brings even more nonsense |
| 12:40.39 | bezaban | guess static site generators aren't a think |
| 12:40.54 | otisolsen70 | What? They totally are. |
| 12:41.07 | bezaban | exactly :) |
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| 12:47.37 | otisolsen70 | So anyone know of any good static gallery generators that work on debian? Preferably something that is packages and apt-getable. But if something is fairly small and self-contained that will work also. |
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| 12:50.15 | otisolsen70 | I found 'sigal' which looks promising: http://sigal.saimon.org/en/latest/installation.html It is a pip package. What is the best practice for using such tools on Debian? Should I install the actual pip package? or should I rather set up a virtualenv and install the pip package from there? |
| 12:50.25 | gpunk | lol I love kiddos that run their mouth ONLY to contradict others ... did you type coppermine gallery on a search engine ? we are not here to spoonfeed you |
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| 12:51.43 | gpunk | because at a certain extend, your question is not even debian related |
| 12:52.06 | gpunk | you have an issue with your debian installation ? non, so ... be polite |
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| 13:01.52 | shtrb | CommunistWolf, if it's in fact DHCP-PD ,does it mean I should have an IPv6 lease file somewhere ? |
| 13:03.24 | teo7 | Hi, I've a wifi firmware missing problem.. i already added non-free source list and i installed firmware-linux-* and firmware-iwlwifi, but nothing.. |
| 13:03.25 | teo7 | Then I also tried "modprobe -r iwlwifi; modprobe iwlwifi" but again nothing is changed. |
| 13:03.25 | teo7 | maybe there is some problem loading the downloaded modules |
| 13:04.38 | CommunistWolf | dunno, i've never used dhcp-pd |
| 13:04.47 | teo7 | This is lspci -nn: Network controller [0280]: Broadcom Limited BCM4313 802.11bgn Wireless Network Adapter [14e4:4727] (rev 01) |
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| 13:07.06 | shtrb | CommunistWolf, but you told me about it yesterday :) |
| 13:07.18 | CommunistWolf | sure, but i've never used it |
| 13:07.24 | shtrb | Should there be lease files for ipv6 at all ? |
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| 13:07.36 | CommunistWolf | I know it exists at the network level, but I've no idea what the implementations look like or do |
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| 13:52.53 | jelly | uos_lyn: you'd typically file a bug report, add a pseudo-header Tag: patch, and attach or link the patches; it's not likely to get fixed in Debian 10 unless it's really really important, but it will get integrated in dev branch for the next release |
| 13:53.07 | jelly | oops, that was supposed to be sent hours ago |
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| 13:54.21 | darsie | Does https://midomi.com work for you to identify songs? |
| 13:54.31 | darsie | With firefox? |
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| 14:03.15 | uniqdom | Hello, I'm seeing the message "Current command vanished from the unit file, execution of the command list won't be resumed" in some systemd unit file. what's that |
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| 14:15.44 | Frowney | I am running debian and want to put an xmodmap command into the User's session startup script? where can i find this on debian? |
| 14:16.09 | ratrace | Frowney: ~/.xsessionrc |
| 14:16.15 | Frowney | I researched this topic, and online they suggested just dropping a script into /etc/init.d/ |
| 14:16.26 | Frowney | ratrace thank you sir/madam |
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| 14:42.58 | unixbsd | hello |
| 14:43.26 | unixbsd | which software looks like ms outlook but way x100 faster thna thunderbird? claws-mail is fine but quite basic |
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| 14:47.14 | ratrace | that's a question unlikely to receive a response |
| 14:48.27 | raidghost | ratrace: correct;) |
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| 14:49.44 | jelly | unixbsd: Outlook Web Access is okay, but you need an Exchange installation or Office365 (none of which are free) |
| 14:51.07 | ratrace | is outlook web access way x100 faster thna thunderbird? |
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| 14:52.51 | raidghost | chuckmail, maybe? |
| 14:53.05 | Frowney | ratrace using ~/.xsession : is this correct-> #! /bin/sh "\n" xmodmap -e "keycode 43 = Menu"? |
| 14:53.34 | Frowney | or do i need to systemd? |
| 14:53.38 | ratrace | Frowney: I didn't say ~/.xsession, and you don't need the shebang; that file is sourced |
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| 14:53.51 | ratrace | you do not need a systemd service to issue an xmodmap call like this, no |
| 14:54.11 | Frowney | ratrace: ~/.xsessionrc (typo) |
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| 14:54.36 | Frowney | do i need to make it executable for it to work? |
| 14:54.47 | ratrace | (and I don't know xmodmpa enough to tell if you that specific invocation will do what you want it to do) |
| 14:54.59 | ratrace | Frowney: you don't, it's sourced |
| 14:56.07 | greycat | I missed some of the context, but a systemd service would be *counter*productive if you're trying to modify an X session, as it won't run inside the X session. |
| 14:56.20 | greycat | The traditional "shell-sourced dot files" approach is what you want. |
| 14:57.23 | Frowney | my command works great in the terminal but am struggling with making it work, I will reboot to see if it it works after taking the shebang out and making it not an executable |
| 14:57.24 | Frowney | brb |
| 14:58.16 | Frowney | oh another question, i want to use the option _netdev in /etc/fstab to only mount these devices i mounted there _after_ my connection has been established, but it wont mount them after |
| 14:58.19 | greycat | a shebang in a sourced dot file is ignored by the shell (the # makes it act like a comment), and the execute bit is likely also ignored |
| 14:58.30 | greycat | likewise* |
| 14:58.31 | jelly | ratrace: yes, server-side search does wonders |
| 14:58.54 | Frowney | greycat so rebooting is moot without any further modifications? |
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| 14:59.17 | greycat | you wouldn't need to reboot anyway, just log out and log back in (or restart X, if you're doing startx) |
| 14:59.31 | Frowney | can i put a sudo mount -a in that same .xsessionrc to remount my mounts? |
| 14:59.34 | greycat | and for the _netdev thing, |
| 14:59.35 | greycat | !auto |
| 14:59.35 | dpkg | Interfaces marked "auto" are waited for by things that wait for the network to be up (like systemd's network-online.target). "allow-hotplug" means the interface is removable or not always needed, so network-online won't wait for it. |
| 15:00.15 | ratrace | Frowney: no, no sudo in .xsessionrc. you can do remounts in other ways, but you need to specify what exactly you want, if you want assistance with that |
| 15:00.18 | Frowney | so i needed auto option not _netdev! |
| 15:00.31 | greycat | ... god DAMN it |
| 15:00.55 | greycat | dpkg, auto =~ s#"auto"#"auto" in /etc/network/interfaces# |
| 15:00.55 | dpkg | OK, greycat |
| 15:00.57 | greycat | !auto |
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| 15:01.00 | ratrace | what auto what netdev? now *I* 've lost context :) |
| 15:01.07 | greycat | !auto |
| 15:01.07 | dpkg | Interfaces marked "auto" in /etc/network/interfaces are waited for by things that wait for the network to be up (like systemd's network-online.target). "allow-hotplug" means the interface is removable or not always needed, so network-online won't wait for it. |
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| 15:01.39 | greycat | S/He started talking about fstab and _netdev for some reason. I have no idea how it connects to the other question. |
| 15:02.01 | ratrace | oh there was an interjected question.... I missed it |
| 15:02.01 | Frowney | ratrace my bad :) in etc/fstab you can put the option _netdev, to signal that this is a network device that needs a network connection to be established |
| 15:02.39 | Frowney | i misunderstood auto to be anoter possible option in etc/fstab but i know now that it is in /etc/network/interfaces |
| 15:02.40 | greycat | and "wait for a network connection" means "wait for each interfaces designated as 'auto' to be brought up" |
| 15:02.43 | ratrace | Frowney: yes I know that, but I don't know what exactly you want to achieve; you mentioned sudo mount for xsessionrc, and that's most definitely wrong thing to do |
| 15:03.28 | greycat | sudo in .xsessionrc will not be able to prompt you for a password because it isn't running in a terminal |
| 15:03.46 | Frowney | I want the mounts that are networkshares (nfs and smb) to be only mounted after the network connection is established |
| 15:04.16 | greycat | let fstab do that, and make sure the ethernet interface is NOT marked "allow-hotplug" |
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| 15:04.22 | greycat | which is stupidly debian's default |
| 15:04.46 | Frowney | I am just greatful people even put in all this effort to creat something as beautiful |
| 15:05.41 | Frowney | greycat to let fstab do that the _netdev is the wrong option, but instead i need to use auto in interfaces, correct? |
| 15:05.46 | ratrace | Frowney: so you need what greycat said. auto in interfaces(5) and _netdev in fstab. netdev, btw, creates an implicity dependency on remote-fs.target which, I think, is implicitly dependent on network-online.target |
| 15:06.00 | ratrace | *implicit |
| 15:06.41 | ratrace | Frowney: you need both. auto to get the interface up on boot, and _netdev to designate the boot dependency |
| 15:06.55 | ratrace | (dependency of the mountpoint on network) |
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| 15:08.00 | Frowney | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:08.01 | greycat | Debian sets up all interfaces (ethernet and wireless) as "allow-hotplug" by default, which breaks any kind of traditional server or workstation setup where you mount stuff at boot time after the (ethernet) network is up. |
| 15:08.58 | greycat | On the server end, it breaks mountd because DNS isn't up at the time mountd slurps up all the hostnames in /etc/exports and tries to resolve them. |
| 15:09.44 | gpunk | Please do not put system commands in .xintitrc .bashrc ... etc that is not a good practive, FYI, if you are using NetworkManager, there is a service called NetwManagerWaitOnline thingy, you can use it by playing with the orders/dependencies, that is the linux/unix way |
| 15:10.08 | ratrace | Frowney: wait, that was an instruction for the bot to replace in factoid.... you need just "auto eth0" instead of "allow-hotplug eth0" , without quotes, on one line, assuming your interfaces is eth0, and if not, replace with what it actually is |
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| 15:13.25 | Frowney | ratrace sorry i understood |
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| 15:13.38 | Frowney | i was already trying to fix my config file that is why i didnt react earlier |
| 15:14.22 | Frowney | i put auto eth0 in interfaces and _netdev in fstab |
| 15:15.07 | greycat | ... is eth0 actually the interface's name? |
| 15:15.13 | Frowney | gpunk thank you! |
| 15:15.34 | Frowney | thank you sirs madams i will reboot and hope for the best :) |
| 15:15.37 | gpunk | :) |
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| 15:17.55 | ratrace | greycat: I bet it isn't =) |
| 15:18.30 | greycat | I'm also concerned by the wording "i put auto eth0 in..." rather than "i changed allow-hotplug eth0 to auto eth0" |
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| 15:24.19 | ratrace | something tells me that network is now broken and the user can't even get online to ask for help. |
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| 15:39.58 | Frowney | neither the xmodmap in .xsessionrc nor the addition of auto eth0 in my intefaces worked, I think I should study X window system and Networkmanager instead of retrieing. thank you again for your help earlier |
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| 15:41.01 | ratrace | Frowney: addition? not replacement? |
| 15:41.33 | ratrace | Frowney: and is your interface _really_ named eth0 ? |
| 15:41.37 | Frowney | the file was empty, naming the interfaces.d folder as source(which i checked is empty) |
| 15:41.48 | greycat | a) is this *real* Debian, or something else? b) is eth0 actually your interface name? c) are you running GNOME or some other desktop environment that might undo your xmodmap changes? |
| 15:41.54 | Frowney | ratrace i got the name off of ifconfig |
| 15:42.04 | greycat | what file was empty?? |
| 15:42.08 | ratrace | Frowney: is this devuan really? |
| 15:42.22 | Frowney | interfaces(5) |
| 15:42.43 | Frowney | yes i am running gnome |
| 15:42.44 | greycat | if /etc/network/interfaces was empty then you are not using interfaces(5) which means you are using SOMETHING ELSE to configure your network |
| 15:43.13 | Frowney | greycat: what DE do i need to use to fix this? |
| 15:43.45 | greycat | To fix *what*!? I don't know what your goals are. I do know that GNOME loves to take full control of everything and will not let you (for example) set up your own mixed locale variables. |
| 15:43.58 | Fox | Frowney: answer greycat's first question: are you running real/stock debian ? |
| 15:44.14 | greycat | I wouldn't be shocked to learn that it also undoes all keyboard/mouse changes made by xmodmap, but I don't *know* for sure whether it does. |
| 15:44.47 | ratrace | the choice of DE is irrelevant. The question is only where do you configure your network. Typical configuration with something like gnome is to have interfaces(5) manage your ethernet via dhcp, and NM then does wireless and maybe other transient, dynamic interfaces |
| 15:44.50 | jelly | I'm not sure xmodmap has effect if they're accidentally on wayland, and if it does, it might be per-app |
| 15:45.04 | ratrace | oh good catch, jells |
| 15:45.20 | jelly | it's not a catch, it's a WAG |
| 15:45.24 | ratrace | heh |
| 15:45.30 | greycat | ratrace: there are multiple questions being asked simultaneously and they don't have anything in common. The xmodmap changes apparently have something to do with desired customizations of the X environment, but who the hell knwows whether they're even running X. It could be Wayland. |
| 15:45.36 | jelly | based on how my Ubuntu laptop behaves |
| 15:45.54 | ratrace | jelly: good nonetheless, it takes getting used to that gnome session is wayland by default if the gpu drivers permit it |
| 15:45.55 | jelly | (each X app has its own keymap) |
| 15:46.04 | gpunk | Frowney: I already tald, do not mix USER scripts and especially NOT Xorg with mounting FSs, NM manager Wait Online IS made exactly for that: WAIT for the network to be UP to DO things |
| 15:46.09 | ratrace | greycat: indeed |
| 15:47.01 | greycat | I'm not sure how one would even go about getting an empty /etc/network/interfaces on a Debian installation. Even if you use N-M, isn't loopback (lo) configured in /e/n/i? |
| 15:47.09 | ratrace | afaik it is |
| 15:47.45 | jelly | IIRC ifupdown sets up lo even without it (or systemd does, don't remenber) |
| 15:48.51 | ratrace | actually looking at mine (I use networkd), it's not empty, there's no lo. but ther IS a comment and source of /etc/network/interfaces.d/* |
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| 15:48.58 | ratrace | so definitely NOT empty on Buster |
| 15:49.01 | Frowney | its xwayland :| |
| 15:49.31 | Frowney | i am sorry |
| 15:49.36 | jelly | turn that frown upside down! |
| 15:51.05 | ratrace | and huh.... one buster installation has "source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*", that's using the installer. and debootstrap'd servers have "source-directory /etc/network/interfaces.d" |
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| 15:51.46 | jelly | perhaps you had a new debootstrap |
| 15:52.31 | jelly | never heard of source-directory |
| 15:52.50 | Frowney | I think I will do myself a better service if i just learn about networkmanager and gnome and how to uninstall xwayland and install real x |
| 15:53.01 | Frowney | i am sorry for the grief, pls excuse me |
| 15:53.36 | ratrace | now there's a wrong premise to ragequit on. |
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| 15:54.13 | jelly | not enough rage in that quit |
| 15:54.14 | greycat | Never did confirm what OS they were running, did they.... |
| 15:54.27 | ratrace | nope |
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| 16:42.37 | unixbsd | Can I run MS-Team to make phone calls, using DEBIAN Stable running on the PS4 (playstation) ? |
| 16:43.34 | greycat | That is a huge twisted mass of mini-questions. |
| 16:44.30 | azeem | also probably best addressed to Microsoft and Sony |
| 16:44.36 | greycat | I count at least three: (1) can Debian stable be installed on the playstation 4 (2) can MS-Team run on Debian on the Playstation 4's architecture, whatever that is (3) can MS-Team make phone calls |
| 16:44.41 | sney | google says it's amd64, so as long as MS has a compatible binary it should be like running it on any other modern-ish pc |
| 16:44.49 | azeem | yes to (3) |
| 16:45.03 | azeem | well, Voip-like calls |
| 16:45.23 | azeem | and yes, there's ms teams .debs for amd64 |
| 16:45.44 | ratrace | sounds like fake question |
| 16:45.55 | unixbsd | i am serious, i am unix master |
| 16:46.05 | ratrace | anyone knowing how to install linux on ps4 would know the answer to this one. |
| 16:46.23 | sney | sounds like you didn't take a minute to test it, so either you're still hardware shopping, or? |
| 16:47.02 | ratrace | unixbsd: then you already know the answer, "master". |
| 16:47.52 | unixbsd | ratrace: do believe me? check that unix master ;) https://termbin.com/l6jv |
| 16:48.21 | ratrace | so you're not even running debian? =) |
| 16:49.20 | unixbsd | as well. even slackware |
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| 16:52.16 | n4dir | "do you run debian" "even slackware". The most odd answer i read in a few minutes |
| 16:52.36 | azeem | unixbsd: anyway, the answer is: if you get debian stable to run on your playstation 4 and sound/mic is working, then ms teams should probably work as well |
| 16:52.40 | azeem | now can we move on |
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| 17:05.08 | jelly | that was not a serious question, but PS4 is technically a very, very weird x86_64 |
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| 17:11.52 | unixbsd | I got it how it works. the exploit uses http://ps4.editzz.net. This load the bzimage of 4.4.0-rc6-00037-gfb243c0-dirty kernel, made by kr105@ubuntu in 2016. It forces forcepae. This allows to run the busybox on it. Then, you need to recompile the kernel. This is fair sufficient to compile the kernel and build the initrd. |
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| 17:12.43 | shtrb | unixbsd, yes you can use teams to make calls, I'm using that from flatpak , I hate that product |
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| 17:14.35 | ratrace | hah flatpak. more like fatpack. :) |
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| 17:14.47 | shtrb | not doing outbound calls, also working on refular amd64. |
| 17:14.53 | shtrb | ratrace, still better then snap |
| 17:15.13 | ratrace | possibru. |
| 17:15.59 | shtrb | it would had been much better , that all that "packagers" would do wnpp and pack normal and nice debs |
| 17:16.28 | ratrace | but upstreams are making that very difficult. look at Chromium. |
| 17:16.53 | ratrace | so, containerized applications makes sense. just not snap. that's horrible, horrible, garbage tech. |
| 17:17.00 | shtrb | I would have even donated a 10 euro for them to pack that (and I sure as hell other would have chimmed in to make the effort better) |
| 17:17.00 | jhutchins | Cross-platform package management just doesn't work on so many levels. It's not that hard to run multiple packagers. |
| 17:17.11 | ratrace | and I'm not sold on fatpacks either. methinks appimage has the most advantage. |
| 17:17.17 | shtrb | chromium is not a good example |
| 17:17.37 | ratrace | it's the perfect example |
| 17:18.06 | ratrace | thicc, bloatware that has specific llvm version requirements and is causing all kinds of maintainership nightmares. |
| 17:18.54 | shtrb | chromium is like node based apps , broken by design |
| 17:18.56 | jelly | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:18.56 | jelly | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:19.01 | greycat | I thought "thicc" had positive connotations. |
| 17:19.07 | jelly | the vendor has more than flatpak or snap. |
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| 17:19.40 | jelly | doesn't really matter, it's an Electron app |
| 17:19.52 | shtrb | jelly,I want to see that in *DEBIAN* repos not on a external repo , with , who know what rules and flows |
| 17:20.05 | jelly | shtrb: I want a pony. |
| 17:20.13 | ratrace | you already have one! |
| 17:20.15 | jhutchins | The problem is with libraries and support programs not having cross-version compatibility, and with apps requiring a specific version of a library. This goes against the modular shared-library nature of Linux. |
| 17:20.34 | shtrb | jelly, That is probably an easier task then have all Microsoft debs imported into debian |
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| 17:20.55 | jhutchins | jelly: I can arrange for that to happen. There's one up for sale at this month's auction in KS. |
| 17:21.17 | shtrb | #debian is teaming up to get jelly a pony |
| 17:21.30 | ratrace | not THAT pony! |
| 17:22.04 | shtrb | I can help in delivering (know how to operate farm machinery ) |
| 17:23.19 | jelly | shtrb: at some point you either trust the vendor, or don't use their product. MS have sane repos set up with valid crypto signage. |
| 17:23.49 | ratrace | but the software in those repos, on the other hand... |
| 17:23.52 | jelly | having it packaged in Debian doesn't improve a whole lot in security |
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| 17:24.05 | jhutchins | Two of the most expensive words in English when used together: "Free horse". |
| 17:24.40 | shtrb | trust is not a boolean question, having a package inside debian mean the package behaves properly with debian and not just with the packager machine |
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| 17:25.00 | ratrace | or else ends up like VirtualBox |
| 17:25.23 | jelly | shtrb: ms packages are fine in that regard, electron is pretty much self-contained. |
| 17:25.50 | jelly | at least their skype, teams and vscode are. |
| 17:26.16 | ratrace | are you actually praising electron? |
| 17:26.30 | jelly | no, I'm praising Microsoft's deb packaging. |
| 17:27.01 | shtrb | didn't vscode ship telemetry implementation (that free vscode didn't have ) ? |
| 17:27.22 | jelly | shtrb: sure, but it didn't break your apt or leave crap behind after --purge |
| 17:27.52 | ratrace | whenever I hear "Microsoft" and ".deb" in the same sentence, I always remember R ..... https://www.preining.info/blog/2018/06/microsofts-failed-attempt-on-debian-packaging/ |
| 17:28.04 | ratrace | rm /bin/sh |
| 17:28.21 | jelly | they are able to learn from their mistakes, apparently |
| 17:28.23 | shtrb | pfff .. I raise that with bumble bee |
| 17:28.26 | ratrace | sure, things change, evolve, get better etc... I just can't forget the rm /bin/sh, ever. |
| 17:28.54 | jelly | I'm more of a forgive, don't forget myself |
| 17:29.04 | shtrb | Best package failure I remember https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee-Old-and-abbandoned/issues/123 |
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| 17:29.46 | ratrace | shtrb: lol omg! |
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| 18:27.12 | ksk | shtrb: classic! Even Origin? (the EA launcher) did that on release if I remember correctly.. |
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| 19:22.57 | roycroft | hello, folks |
| 19:23.18 | roycroft | i have a machine that i'm going to use as a cnc controller |
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| 19:23.37 | roycroft | it has a dell monitor with an elo accutouch usb touch controller |
| 19:23.55 | roycroft | a few years ago i installed debian 8 on the machine and was able to get the touch screen working fine |
| 19:24.42 | roycroft | this time, installing debian 10.6, dmesg sees the elo accutouch device, but the x.org config thinks it's a wacom touch screen |
| 19:25.30 | roycroft | i was able to calibrate it wiht xinput-calibrator, although the calibrator spit out a few errors at first, but it's not working correctly |
| 19:25.38 | roycroft | likely do thinking it's a wacom, not elo |
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| 19:26.04 | roycroft | if anyone has any insights on getting this configure correctly i'd appreciate it |
| 19:26.44 | roycroft | most of the information i've found on the web about elo touch screens and linux is for rs-232, not usb interfaces |
| 19:27.29 | roycroft | my changelog from years ago shows that i installed xserver-xorg-input-mutouch, but i don't know if that was necessary or not |
| 19:27.51 | roycroft | i'm not even sure it was for this touch screen, as i have several |
| 19:27.59 | roycroft | but i did get this particular one working at one point |
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| 19:31.08 | ksk | roycroft: Did you checkout https://wiki.debian.org/TabletAndTouchScreen already? Some of the articles are more useful than others. |
| 19:32.55 | roycroft | no, i did not know of that site |
| 19:33.07 | roycroft | i'll spend some time there, and i'll ask here again if i have further questions |
| 19:33.08 | roycroft | thanks |
| 19:33.13 | ksk | mhhm, the article does not seem too detailed in regards of hardware, but check it out yourself :) |
| 19:33.48 | roycroft | oh, actually, i did read that article this morning |
| 19:33.56 | roycroft | it was unmemorable, obviously :) |
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| 19:35.07 | roycroft | the thing is, i'm much more experienced with bsd than linux, although i've been running linux on the server farm at work for several years now |
| 19:35.38 | roycroft | but i don't have to deal with custom kernels/drivers on the work machines |
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| 19:35.53 | roycroft | so i installed that xserver-xorg-input-mutouch package |
| 19:36.00 | roycroft | in case it might help |
| 19:36.17 | roycroft | but i don't see it when listing available drivers with modprobe |
| 19:36.24 | ksk | Maybe someone else knows something and can help you out. Its about 7pm in Europe right now, I know that there is much more traffic in here the ten hours before. |
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| 19:36.45 | roycroft | ok, i'm on the west coast of the us |
| 19:36.47 | roycroft | it's noon here |
| 19:37.09 | roycroft | but i'm usually in the office by 6am local time, so i'll try early tomorrow if i don't have it sorted out by then |
| 19:37.17 | ksk | roycroft: soo, it is usb? what does lsusb identify it as? IF you then google that, in regards to which driver/firmware/kernel-module/foo is needed, what is the picture? |
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| 19:37.49 | roycroft | Bus 003 Device 002: ID 04e7:0008 Elo TouchSystems 3000U AccuTouch® Touchmonitor Interface |
| 19:37.56 | roycroft | so i'm sure it's finding the correct device |
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| 19:38.20 | roycroft | and i did search on that, and all i'm finding is links to configuring elo serial touch screens on linux |
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| 19:38.37 | ksk | I google a russian FTP offering "Linux Driver" :D |
| 19:38.56 | roycroft | i'll respectfully pass on that, thank you very much :) |
| 19:39.28 | ksk | okay I see, was just making sure we are on the same page here. |
| 19:39.45 | roycroft | while this machine will not be on the internet post-install, it will be controlling a large machine that is potentially rather dangerous |
| 19:40.28 | ksk | on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EloTouchScreen I found the statement "*** EVTOUCH DRIVER HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM UBUNTU STARTING AT VERSION 11.04 *** " |
| 19:40.58 | roycroft | yup, i saw that too |
| 19:41.25 | roycroft | the touchscreen worked fine with debian 8.x |
| 19:41.57 | greycat | if you still have that debian 8 system, or logs from it, check them and see what was being used, driver-wise |
| 19:42.13 | RoyK | (or just use debian :þ) |
| 19:42.27 | roycroft | and without meaning to offend anyone here, i never saw what the point is in the existence of ubuntu, other than to take debian and assign it completely different release version numbers and code names |
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| 19:42.46 | shtrb | roycroft, make profit |
| 19:42.54 | roycroft | i have no idea how ubuntu 11 correlates with debian releases |
| 19:43.05 | jelly | "old" |
| 19:43.14 | jelly | !release history |
| 19:43.14 | dpkg | Named after "Toy Story" characters. Buzz(1.1; 1996-03-14), Rex(1.2; 1996-10-28), Bo(1.3; 1997-05-01), Hamm(2.0; 1998-07-24), Slink(2.1; 1999-03-09), Potato(2.2; 2000-08-15), Woody(3.0; 2002-07-19), Sarge(3.1; 2005-06-06), Etch(4.0; 2007-04-08), Lenny(5.0; 2009-02-14), Squeeze(6.0; 2011-02-06), Wheezy(7; 2013-05-04), Jessie(8; 2015-04-25), Stretch (9; 2017-06-17), Buster (10; 2019-07-06). Next: Bullseye. http://deb.li/it56U |
| 19:43.15 | roycroft | the ubuntu vs. debian discussion is not why i'm here, though |
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| 19:43.36 | roycroft | and it probably is a bit too controversial for casual conversation |
| 19:43.58 | roycroft | so i'll just say that i use debian |
| 19:44.06 | roycroft | and i'd like to fix my problem :) |
| 19:44.09 | jelly | roycroft: I mean, Ubuntu has year-based versioning. 11.04 would have been released in 2011 |
| 19:44.14 | roycroft | ok |
| 19:44.21 | roycroft | i had no idea that it uses year-based versioning |
| 19:44.28 | roycroft | but that's actually helpful |
| 19:44.36 | roycroft | i don't have to rememer anything else about it |
| 19:44.41 | jelly | if you know Debian 8 used to work, you can try using a 3.16 kernel from jessie (= Debian 8) |
| 19:44.43 | ksk | I did just throw in Ubuntu here because it was the only useful reference to roycroft his/her device. |
| 19:44.48 | roycroft | i can take the version number and roughly correlate it to debian |
| 19:44.58 | roycroft | i identify as male |
| 19:45.09 | roycroft | (is that how we do things these days+?) |
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| 19:45.12 | roycroft | i am old |
| 19:45.16 | jelly | (I think so?) |
| 19:45.18 | ksk | roycroft: Did you see what the grey cat wrote about checking with your debian 8 system? |
| 19:45.20 | roycroft | and trying to use current terminologoy |
| 19:45.30 | roycroft | yes, and unfortunately that's not an option |
| 19:45.40 | roycroft | because i overwrote the debian 8 install with the debian 10 install |
| 19:45.52 | roycroft | i thought my changelog from debian 8 would be sufficient documentation |
| 19:45.57 | roycroft | but apparently not |
| 19:46.16 | greycat | you could try booting a debian 8 live CD or something |
| 19:46.27 | roycroft | i very briefly considered just trying to upgrade from debian 8 to debian 10 |
| 19:46.29 | roycroft | however |
| 19:46.53 | roycroft | 1. that would be a 2-stage upgrade, and i have no idea if the debian 8 release i was running was close to the final one |
| 19:46.56 | jelly | roycroft: is it possible the wacom driver has subsumed the elo driver, and it's _supposed_ to be working? |
| 19:47.15 | roycroft | my experience has been that some of the package repositories disappear over time, so those upgrades of old systems can be challenging |
| 19:47.22 | ksk | roycroft: http://media.elotouch.com/Support/files/install/Elo-Linux-ST-USB-Driver-v4.3.1_Installation-Instructions.txt This suggest you would need third party drivers? |
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| 19:47.45 | roycroft | and 2. i had installed a real time kernel, which was not part of the debian distribution at the time |
| 19:47.47 | roycroft | it was a lot of work |
| 19:48.00 | roycroft | ksk: yes, elo don't want anything to do with linux |
| 19:48.07 | greycat | sounds like the kind of thing you shouldn't have nuked |
| 19:48.12 | jelly | the fact calibration did _anything_ is somewhat promising |
| 19:48.29 | roycroft | well rt is just a debian package as of 10.x |
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| 19:48.44 | roycroft | so to put things in perspective |
| 19:48.47 | roycroft | i'm not down right now |
| 19:49.08 | roycroft | i was not running the cnc controller with 8.x, decided to upgrade, and am now in a panic because i need it back |
| 19:49.19 | roycroft | this machine has never been in production |
| 19:49.25 | roycroft | it was a test build back then |
| 19:49.34 | ksk | roycroft: Mhhm? I read that as "install this drivers from our download area on your linux". |
| 19:49.54 | roycroft | and i'm now finishing up the hardware mods to the machine (the one being controlled), and am ready to finish the conversion from manual to cnc |
| 19:50.08 | roycroft | oh? |
| 19:51.03 | roycroft | sorry, i didn't go to that link when you posted it |
| 19:51.24 | roycroft | i had dealt with elo before and they told me explicitly that they do not support linux and are not interested in even hearing about linux |
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| 19:51.32 | roycroft | it appears they've had a change of heart on that |
| 19:51.49 | roycroft | or that the person i was dealing with got through their bad hair day |
| 19:52.06 | jelly | ksk: vendor-provided drivers are usually a) horrible b) horribly old, then someone sane puts lots and lots of patches on them and updates them for a recent kernel |
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| 19:52.46 | roycroft | i have an appointment in a couple minutes |
| 19:52.50 | ksk | ah okay, so there might also be an OSS version of making it work, agreed. |
| 19:52.52 | roycroft | i'll look at the elo site again after |
| 19:53.02 | roycroft | and do some more research |
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| 19:53.09 | jelly | but this is from 2016, not that bad |
| 19:53.09 | roycroft | and i'll check in if i'm still having issues later |
| 19:53.11 | roycroft | thanks for your time |
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| 19:53.25 | ksk | It mentions kernels up to 4.X - so not too much hope from that. |
| 19:53.34 | ksk | !kernels |
| 19:53.36 | dpkg | Linux kernel versions, stable: 5.9.3, mainline: 5.10-rc2, stable 5.9: 5.9.3, stable 5.8: 5.8.18 (EOL), longterm 5.4: 5.4.74, longterm 4.19: 4.19.154, longterm 4.14: 4.14.203, longterm 4.9: 4.9.241, longterm 4.4: 4.4.241, linux-next: next-20201104 |
| 19:53.57 | jelly | and it's a libusb userspace thing |
| 19:54.11 | jelly | and wow, I haven't seen THAT in a while |
| 19:54.13 | jelly | - Motif versions supported: |
| 19:54.13 | jelly | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:54.24 | jelly | ksk: 4.x is _good_ |
| 19:54.35 | jelly | buster has a 4.x |
| 19:54.41 | roycroft | #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 4.19.152-1 (2020-10-18) |
| 19:54.42 | roycroft | i'm on 4.x |
| 19:54.57 | ksk | Yeah, realizing I spawned a very helpful faqtoid. |
| 19:55.13 | mingeo | is there a tool to quickly verify if all the binaries checksums correspond the ones packaged in current release of debian ? |
| 19:55.15 | roycroft | heads out |
| 19:55.16 | jelly | ,kernels |
| 19:55.17 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.9.0-rc8-686-pae (5.9~rc8-1~exp1); sid: 5.9.0-1-686 (5.9.1-1); bullseye: 5.9.0-1-686 (5.9.1-1); buster-backports: 5.8.0-0.bpo.2-686 (5.8.10-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-12-686-pae (4.19.152-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.19.152-1~deb9u1); jessie-backports: |
| 19:55.18 | judd | 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
| 19:55.31 | greycat | !debsums |
| 19:55.31 | dpkg | debsums is a utility that will check a package's files against their checksums. The "-a" argument will instruct it to also check configuration files: "apt install debsums; debsums -a -s". Almost all packages come with md5sums included in the package or apt will have generated them for you; generate missing ones with "apt-get install --reinstall `debsums -l`". Ask me about <md5sums>. |
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| 19:55.58 | jelly | mingeo: "debsums" but its use is not mandatory so some packages don't come with checksums |
| 19:56.22 | mingeo | i only for essential ones |
| 19:56.27 | mingeo | need( |
| 19:56.28 | mingeo | * |
| 19:57.02 | mingeo | like standard utilities used over ssh sessions and also cryptsetup |
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| 19:58.46 | bioFart007 | hello everyone, had a locale question. "locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory" is the message i get when trying to install or update anything on machine |
| 19:59.18 | greycat | !locales |
| 19:59.18 | dpkg | Use 'dpkg-reconfigure locales' to get it up and running. This generates <locale> definitions and also edits /etc/default/locale which sets the $LANG environment variable at login time. Use "LANG=C command" to change the output language for a one off command, ask me about <localised errors>. See also <mac locales>. http://wiki.debian.org/Locale |
| 20:00.20 | RoyK | greycat: shouldn't that also list installing the locales-all package in case you're in a hurry and can afford to waste a wee bit of diskspace? |
| 20:00.30 | bioFart007 | i reconfigured and generated locales |
| 20:00.31 | jelly | bioFart007: what does "locale" command say in the same shell that you try to install stuff in? |
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| 20:01.42 | bioFart007 | "Cannot set LC_ALL to default...." and then everything after is = to en_US.UTF-8 |
| 20:01.59 | bioFart007 | LC_ALL has no value |
| 20:02.16 | greycat | did you generate the en_US.utf8 locale? |
| 20:02.23 | bioFart007 | yes i did |
| 20:02.28 | jelly | bioFart007: can you pastebin actual command and output, and also command line and output of an(y) affected command? |
| 20:02.36 | another | locale -a |
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| 20:03.11 | jelly | ^ will tell you which locales are available |
| 20:03.13 | bioFart007 | i can't its on another computer |
| 20:03.27 | jelly | !pastebinit |
| 20:03.27 | dpkg | A command-line tool to send data to a <pastebin>. To paste e.g. your sources.list do "apt-get install pastebinit; pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list"; to paste the output of a program do e.g. "dmesg 2>&1 | pastebinit". For a list of pastebin sites do "pastebinit -l". See also <pastebinit config>, <nopaste>. |
| 20:03.28 | greycat | that computer is not connected to the internet? |
| 20:03.33 | bioFart007 | locale -a gave me |
| 20:03.35 | bioFart007 | C |
| 20:03.39 | bioFart007 | C.UTF-8 |
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| 20:03.45 | bioFart007 | en_US.utf8 |
| 20:03.48 | bioFart007 | POSIX |
| 20:04.58 | bioFart007 | its connected to the internet |
| 20:05.10 | bioFart007 | but i can't install anything on it because of this locale issue |
| 20:05.14 | greycat | then you can use termbin.com and so on |
| 20:05.23 | jelly | bioFart007: do you maybe have curl installed? |
| 20:06.29 | jelly | bioFart007: how do you become root? Do you use sudo with your installation attempts, or do you first open a separate root shell somehow? |
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| 20:06.43 | bioFart007 | its redribbon if that means anything to anyone |
| 20:06.57 | jelly | dpkg: redribbon |
| 20:06.57 | dpkg | jelly: I wish you would RTFM. |
| 20:07.04 | jelly | sorry |
| 20:07.34 | greycat | google seems to say it's a Linux distribution |
| 20:07.41 | greycat | Introduction. Red Ribbon GNU/Linux for PS3 is a new PPC64 GNU/Linux distribution with support for Cell/BE, designed for Sony PS3. It is based on Debian GNU/Linux, |
| 20:07.47 | greycat | so, we probably can't help you |
| 20:07.50 | jelly | bioFart007: does "env LC_ALL=C apt-get install curl" work |
| 20:08.02 | jelly | oh wow, ppc |
| 20:09.05 | bioFart007 | Unable to lock the admin directory |
| 20:09.25 | bioFart007 | darn it i can' t find any resources any where on this |
| 20:09.28 | greycat | are you even root |
| 20:09.33 | *** part/#debian YWH_1 (~foo_drive@107-129-37-134.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:09.36 | bioFart007 | yes |
| 20:10.11 | *** part/#debian bioFart007 (~agent@45.56.142.71) |
| 20:10.56 | ksk | bioFart007: It is totally offtopic in here, but it seems to me that there only was this 2011 release of "Red Ribbon GNU/LINUX", and there are no repositories or so available (anymore?). |
| 20:11.08 | greycat | (they left) |
| 20:11.09 | jelly | a PS3 is like what, $50 on ebay? |
| 20:11.19 | ksk | :(( |
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| 20:13.48 | jelly | ppc64 big endian, says http://web.archive.org/web/20190629013051/https://redribbongnulinux.000webhostapp.com/ |
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| 20:17.40 | jelly | and releases up until and including jessie |
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| 21:03.48 | eyJhb | If I want to run kernel 5.7 on Debian 9.5 (stretch), but apt-update, apt-cache search only shows 5.9, how would I go about doing that? |
| 21:04.00 | *** join/#debian uniqdom (~uniqdom@186.10.228.134) |
| 21:04.02 | sney | !snapshot |
| 21:04.02 | dpkg | http://snapshot.debian.org/ is an archive of almost all Debian packages uploaded since 2005, including those removed from the official archives because they were very buggy, unusable, broken, vulnerable or in some way non-free. This service replaces snapshot.debian.net. http://www.debian.org/News/2010/20100412 |
| 21:04.18 | sney | I don't think there ever was a 5.7 for stretch, though. just buster-backports and up |
| 21:04.38 | sney | still, kernels are pretty self-contained, so a snapshot 5.7 could work anyway |
| 21:05.48 | eyJhb | Hmm, weird. These servers are kinda weird in general |
| 21:06.00 | eyJhb | Praying for a reinstall, but given a little to survive for now |
| 21:06.06 | ratrace | what's so specific about that version? |
| 21:06.48 | eyJhb | Have two servers, the other has that version and works. Basically I do not want 5.9, as that requires virtualbox 6.x, and the software is not tested with that |
| 21:07.07 | eyJhb | So want to stay on lower than 5.9, so I can use vbox 5.x, and thereby 5.7 makes sense to match the other frakenserver |
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| 21:08.07 | eyJhb | sney: Do I need to know the exact name ? |
| 21:08.30 | sney | eyJhb: just click the 'l' section under binary packages, and ctrl+f with your browser. |
| 21:08.48 | sney | it'll be linux-image-5.7.x-y-amd64 |
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| 21:09.56 | eyJhb | I might be blind, but I cannot find it sney https://termbin.com/w5yx |
| 21:10.02 | eyJhb | Just did a curl to make sure... |
| 21:10.08 | eyJhb | Oh... |
| 21:10.11 | eyJhb | Sorry |
| 21:10.47 | sney | yes, binary |
| 21:11.01 | uniqdom | I'm running a simple python script using systemd. The program starts correctly, but I'm unable to stop it using 'sudo systemctl stop app.service'. what could be the problem? The .service is this one: https://paste.debian.net/1169983/ |
| 21:12.04 | ratrace | uniqdom: why are you unable? what does it say when you try? |
| 21:12.46 | uniqdom | the service seems to be stopped as I'm seeing it in journalctl. But I still see the python script running using ps aux |
| 21:13.07 | ratrace | uniqdom: is the app forking? |
| 21:13.19 | uniqdom | it has some threads |
| 21:13.21 | sney | uniqdom: there should be a field where you can set the dir to run from. I suspect that chain of commands in ExecStart is causing systemd to pick up the wron pid for the service |
| 21:13.22 | ratrace | and why do you set KillMode like that? why not leave the default |
| 21:13.46 | ratrace | sney: Type=simple, doesn't care about pidfile |
| 21:14.03 | uniqdom | oh sorry about that KillMode, I was trying to kill it somehow |
| 21:14.07 | uniqdom | i will remove KillMode |
| 21:14.29 | uniqdom | ratrace: should I change the Type? |
| 21:14.38 | uniqdom | sney: I will try that |
| 21:14.49 | ratrace | meanwhile, use proper systemd options to set the current working directory, like WorkingDirectory |
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| 21:15.31 | ratrace | uniqdom: you should not change the Type unless the program is written for different Type |
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| 21:15.53 | ratrace | is the program expecting to be run under a process manager like that? does it manage its own daemonizations/forking? |
| 21:16.21 | uniqdom | no |
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| 21:16.39 | ratrace | no what? there were two different questions there :) |
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| 21:20.44 | uniqdom | no, sorry, I don't really understood your questions :( |
| 21:21.07 | uniqdom | but hey. it's working. thanks :) |
| 21:21.21 | ratrace | what change is working? |
| 21:21.24 | eyJhb | sney: thanks, it works not. Appreciate your help :) |
| 21:22.25 | uniqdom | I supose it was the killmode, but i also added the WorkingDirectory |
| 21:22.42 | ratrace | and changed ExecStart not to do cd? |
| 21:23.58 | uniqdom | yep ;) |
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| 21:24.16 | ratrace | that's the one then. sney way on the money, I misread what they wrote, thought they meant pidfile.... usually meaningful for type=forking |
| 21:24.20 | ratrace | *was |
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| 21:27.11 | sney | ratrace: it's fine, I'm not super familiar with writing service defs anyway, I was guessing from context |
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| 21:28.39 | greycat | The main point is that you are *not* writing a shell script to do all the setup. This isn't sysv-rc. You need to use systemd's internal features for all the setup (env vars, working directory, UID, GID, resource limits, ...) and then directly execute the ONE command that you need. |
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| 21:29.13 | greycat | Sure, there are ways to work around that or fudge things, but try to do it right the first time. It'll save you a lot of headache. |
| 21:30.52 | karlpinc | I'm running xfce4-terminal. Sometimes when I ssh to a remote system which requires a password, I can't login. But I always seem to be able to when I stat a new terminal window. I'm always pasteing the password with the middle mouse button. Is there something that a terminal window might do to mess up middle-mouse-paste of a password? |
| 21:31.02 | karlpinc | s/stat/start/ |
| 21:31.27 | greycat | did you try pasting directly at a shell prompt to see what's actually in the buffer? |
| 21:31.40 | karlpinc | Yes. it always seems to come out right.... |
| 21:31.53 | roycroft | i don't know why that's happening to you, karlpinc |
| 21:32.01 | roycroft | but i would recommend not using passwords with ssh |
| 21:32.01 | karlpinc | I can be able to login in one window and not the one right next to it. |
| 21:32.04 | roycroft | use key exchange instead |
| 21:32.16 | roycroft | ssh-copy-id |
| 21:32.22 | karlpinc | roycroft: I am using key pairs. Sometimes a password as well. |
| 21:33.39 | ratrace | karlpinc: first of all, if you're allowing passwords, then your keys have ZERO security advantage |
| 21:34.10 | ratrace | second, please define "can't login" .. what error message exactly do you see? |
| 21:34.14 | karlpinc | I'm pretty much flailing around trying to figure this out. I've also thought that maybe some firewall hates me, and there's some sort of local-side port that's being re-used or something. |
| 21:34.27 | roycroft | yes, i disable password logins |
| 21:34.31 | karlpinc | ratrace: It's denied at the remote end. I see password failure in the logs. |
| 21:34.40 | BCMM | ratrace: a lot of people use passphrases to unlock their keys |
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| 21:34.49 | karlpinc | ratrace: I'm requiring _both_ keys and passwords. |
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| 21:35.13 | BCMM | ratrace: that way, even if an attacker gets a device with the key on it, they hopefully can't log in |
| 21:35.13 | ratrace | BCMM: that has nothing to do with what I said |
| 21:35.31 | ratrace | password login != private key passhprase |
| 21:35.33 | BCMM | ratrace: i am trying to make you realise that what you said has nothing to do with what karlpinc said |
| 21:35.42 | karlpinc | Lets move on. |
| 21:36.01 | ratrace | I beg to differ: "22:32 < karlpinc> roycroft: I am using key pairs. Sometimes a password as well." |
| 21:36.34 | karlpinc | As well as a key.... Anyway.... |
| 21:36.39 | ratrace | also "I see password failure in the logs." |
| 21:37.12 | greycat | I'm guessing however you set up this gnetto two-factor authentication scheme might have some bugs in it. |
| 21:37.27 | ratrace | anyway, if you're using passwords and sometimes they fail until you start a new terminal? I'd look at locale or keymap settings |
| 21:37.31 | karlpinc | ratrace: Yes. I'm worried about something messing with my paste. Somehow. I can't figure out why the same password works sometimes and not others. Maybe it's the remote end. But maybe not. |
| 21:37.53 | greycat | You can rule out the paste issue by typing the damned thing. |
| 21:38.08 | greycat | If you can't type it, then it's not a password. It's a freaking second key. |
| 21:38.23 | karlpinc | greycat: Possibly. The ssh part is simple: AuthenticationMethods publickey,password |
| 21:38.45 | karlpinc | greycat: Good point. I'll try. |
| 21:39.02 | ratrace | eh pasting passwords |
| 21:39.24 | karlpinc | (That's why I use irc, to discover the obvious.) |
| 21:40.00 | karlpinc | ratrace: Yeah. But I just don't want to type 20 or 30 random characters. |
| 21:40.13 | ratrace | why not use just keys then.... |
| 21:40.29 | karlpinc | ratrace: Because I want to require _both_ keys _and_ a password. |
| 21:40.50 | karlpinc | (key first) |
| 21:41.10 | ratrace | karlpinc: but this defeats the purpose.... ALSO, as I said, having BOTH keys and passwords (and I'm assuming you're NOT talking about privkey passphrase) does not increase security one bit |
| 21:41.32 | ratrace | or if you ARE talking about privkey passphrase, then use the ssh-agent and unlock it ONCE on login to your local user session |
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| 21:42.28 | karlpinc | ratrace: Sure it does. You need a key, and a password. Nobody memorizes their key. So you need a device, and a password. 2 things are more secure than 1 thing. |
| 21:43.33 | ratrace | apparently you're not memorizing your password either. and I'm really failing to understand what exactly you're doing there. some kind of 2fa? |
| 21:43.47 | karlpinc | Yup. 2fa. |
| 21:43.49 | greycat | I called it ghetto two-factor authentication and I think I'm on the mark here. |
| 21:43.51 | ratrace | or are you REALLY talking about privkey passphrase and not PasswordAuthentication=yes |
| 21:43.56 | karlpinc | Right. I need 3 things. |
| 21:44.21 | ratrace | sounds overly convoluted for zero actual gain |
| 21:44.21 | karlpinc | ratrace: I am not talking about putting a password on a private key. |
| 21:44.46 | greycat | A password that you can remember or type is just a slightly longer key. |
| 21:44.49 | greycat | can't* |
| 21:44.55 | karlpinc | ratrace: Yes. If I were to memorize my passwords. But I only remember the most used. |
| 21:45.28 | ratrace | if you have a 2048 bit key, and a 20 char password (160bits) ... it's weaker than havign a single, say, 4096key key |
| 21:45.39 | karlpinc | greycat: Sorta. That's a matter of how I manage my passwords, which I'm not really interested in discussing. |
| 21:45.40 | ratrace | * 4096 bit |
| 21:45.53 | karlpinc | ratrace: Sure, if the only threat model is a brute force attack. |
| 21:46.19 | ratrace | and what other threat model is there then? |
| 21:46.44 | greycat | also, 20 typable characters is less than 160 bits |
| 21:46.46 | karlpinc | ratrace: If, on the other hand, the threat model is you lose your laptop which does not have an encrypted drive and there are no passwords on the private keys then the attacker has little work to do. |
| 21:47.01 | ratrace | that's solved with privkey passphrases. so put passphrases on the privkeys, duh. |
| 21:47.18 | ratrace | I'm with greycat on this one. ghetto 2fa that actualyl does NOTHING |
| 21:47.45 | greycat | apparently it succeeds in keeping him out at random |
| 21:48.10 | ratrace | I mean I'm literally having a jackie_chan_meme.jpg moment here. you're not putting passphrases on privkeys and then you're convoluting something somethign fake 2fa to protect AGAINST very use case where privkey passphrases ARE useful?! |
| 21:48.14 | roycroft | i acl access to ssh, so random people from random place can't even try to connect |
| 21:48.25 | roycroft | and i encrypt anything senstive on portable devices |
| 21:48.27 | ratrace | WHAT |
| 21:48.33 | roycroft | if you have a laptop you should encrypt your home directory |
| 21:49.18 | roycroft | when i need to access a network i manage and i'm some random, remote place, i vpn in, which avoids the acls |
| 21:49.30 | ratrace | and even if you don't..... just use a privkey passphrase, it's LITERALLY doing the same thing you're faking with that ghetto 2fa, BUT actually makes it work |
| 21:50.03 | roycroft | linuxcnc |
| 21:50.54 | karlpinc | ratrace: Wrong. Because the number of bits of randomness is not the issue. The issue is: how hard is it to get the secrets? |
| 21:50.58 | ratrace | greycat: you're right, 20 typeable chars is less than 160 bits, as it's 7x20, not 8x |
| 21:51.16 | greycat | not even 7 either... |
| 21:51.19 | ratrace | karlpinc: extremely hard with a 10-ish char privkey passphrase |
| 21:51.23 | greycat | somewhere between 6 and 7 |
| 21:51.28 | ratrace | NSA can't really crack it hard. |
| 21:51.48 | ratrace | it's so hard, nobody would actually bother, they'd just tie you up and hit you with a $5 wrench until you give up your passprhase. |
| 21:51.59 | ratrace | https://xkcd.com/538/ |
| 21:52.11 | karlpinc | My point exactly. |
| 21:52.22 | ratrace | but you're not using privkey passphrase, so I don't see your point at all |
| 21:52.47 | karlpinc | How is an attacker going to get my passwords? How are they going to get my keys? They are kept separate. So one method won't work to get both. |
| 21:52.56 | ratrace | I'm talking how hard it is to get the secrets when you put a passphrase on your ssh privkey |
| 21:53.10 | ratrace | karlpinc: again, they'll tie you up and hit you with a $5 wrench until you tell them both |
| 21:53.28 | ratrace | and I'm literally not joking. that method is faster than trying to bruteforce your privkey passphrase |
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| 21:53.30 | roycroft | i would give up the secret before the first blow on the head |
| 21:53.31 | karlpinc | I'm talking about whether it matters to have 2 separate secrets, accessed different ways. |
| 21:53.40 | roycroft | nothing's worth getting beat up over |
| 21:53.41 | karlpinc | But actually, I'm not interested in talking about it. |
| 21:54.20 | ratrace | karlpinc: apparently you are, you came here for help on your convoluted, you-broke-it-yourself, fake 2fa method. we're telling you, you can achieve the same level of security with a nice, typeable, no-need-to-paste privkey passprhase. |
| 21:54.34 | karlpinc | I interested in figuring out how to reproduce the problem so I can type in the password and see if the problem is related to middle mouse paste. |
| 21:54.38 | roycroft | karlpinc: i think folks here think you're silly and your mother smells like elderberries |
| 21:55.29 | greycat | "roy" croft sounds french, so beware, or he will taunt you a second time |
| 21:55.37 | karlpinc | ratrace: A private key passphrase is not enforceable. I can't make people put passwords on their private keys. I can make them type in a separate password when they use their key. |
| 21:55.41 | roycroft | i'm new to this channel, though, so i'm not going to swear to that |
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| 21:56.10 | noisemaker | Trying to install debian I get "Failed to install the base system \ The base system installation into /target/ failde. \ Check /var/log/syslog or see virtual console 4 for the details" How can I debug this really ? |
| 21:56.10 | ratrace | karlpinc: you also can't make them NOT write your convoluted 20 char passphrase, on a post-it note on their computer screen |
| 21:56.22 | ratrace | do yo see my point now? convoluted for zero actual security gain. |
| 21:56.45 | karlpinc | ratrace: Or write their password to their private key on a sticky. So what? |
| 21:56.49 | roycroft | wait |
| 21:56.57 | roycroft | you're talking about a policy for other users, not for yourself? |
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| 21:57.18 | karlpinc | roycroft: As it happens, yes. What that matters I don't know. |
| 21:57.20 | ratrace | the stronger you make your security by making people do some work, the WEAKER you make it as those people seek ways to reduce the work and, in the process, reduce security. this is security psychology 101, taught at 1st year NSA indoctrination course. |
| 21:57.24 | eyJhb | What is the difference between linux-image-5.9.0-1-cloud-amd64 and linux-image-5.9.0-1-amd64 ? I got it on kernel 5.7 now, but I want to install wireguard witout changing the kernel again. |
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| 21:57.27 | roycroft | if that is the case it is absolutely guaranteed that they will write their convoluted password on a post-it note and attach it to the screen |
| 21:57.31 | roycroft | or ot their keyboard |
| 21:57.53 | ratrace | eyJhb: the former is supposedly optimized to run as a kvm guest |
| 21:57.54 | karlpinc | Except that I don't make them have long random password. Just something reasonably good. |
| 21:57.59 | roycroft | have you never interacted with end users before? |
| 21:58.23 | roycroft | "reasonably good" is their streetname followed by the year their daughter was born, to most users |
| 21:58.35 | karlpinc | roycroft: Sure. |
| 21:58.40 | ratrace | karlpinc: as a sysadmin of 20+ years, I'm guaranteeing you, people will write your passphrases around. |
| 21:58.52 | eyJhb | ratrace: So I am guessing, if I accept that, then it will install kernel-5.9, and then it will update grub and use that kernel instead? |
| 21:58.53 | karlpinc | roycroft: Hence, the requirement of a key pair. |
| 21:59.04 | ratrace | if you're really concerned about user users going rogue or getting compromised, with an SSH access, you secure other layers |
| 21:59.22 | roycroft | the person who reads the sticky note on the screen will have access to the key |
| 21:59.36 | roycroft | because they'll be sitting in front of the computer |
| 21:59.40 | ratrace | noisemaker: you can ctrl-alt-F4 to get to tty4 and see what it says |
| 22:00.13 | ratrace | eyJhb: wait, I lost the context of what you're asking. if you accept _what_? |
| 22:00.50 | eyJhb | ratrace: Ohh sorry, if I install wireguard and it wants to install the linux-image-5.9.0-1-cloud-amd64, then it will update grub and I will be on that kernel, right? |
| 22:01.00 | eyJhb | If I agree to do so |
| 22:01.08 | ratrace | roycroft: in the company I work for, my business partner, ie. a top echelon personnel, used password "onlyiknowit1" |
| 22:01.17 | noisemaker | ratrace: that keys combination doesn't work |
| 22:01.31 | ratrace | roycroft: everyone in the company, and some cooperants, knew it also :) |
| 22:01.44 | ratrace | noisemaker: maybe without ctrl then? just alt F4 ? |
| 22:01.51 | noisemaker | nevermind. I see it. |
| 22:02.10 | ratrace | people + passwords = goodbye_security |
| 22:02.43 | noisemaker | ratrace: debootstrao: sh: write error: broken pipe \ base-installer: error: exiting on error base-installer/debootstrap-failed |
| 22:02.43 | karlpinc | ratrace: So there's no point in putting a password on a private key then? |
| 22:02.51 | ratrace | so if I were so concerned, I'd go the other wa around and distribute PRIVATE keys too, that you yourself generated, and protected with a reasonable passphrase that people will still write on post-int notes |
| 22:03.53 | ratrace | karlpinc: it's generally better to protect key with passphrases |
| 22:04.36 | karlpinc | ratrace: Yes. And it's generally better to require something you have and something you know. What works best in actual practice depends on the circumstances. |
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| 22:04.46 | ratrace | noisemaker: did you try to restart the installation procedure? could be transient issue, could be hardware issue |
| 22:05.02 | ratrace | karlpinc: that's done with _actual_ 2FA then |
| 22:05.17 | ratrace | OpenSSH can do proper 2fa |
| 22:05.49 | karlpinc | ratrace: Find me a definition of 2fa that excludes having a plain-old password as one factor. |
| 22:06.04 | ratrace | how about a second device |
| 22:06.34 | karlpinc | ratrace: My passwords are on a second device. I have to plug it in to get them. |
| 22:06.42 | noisemaker | ratrace: Let me restart.Should be from the scratch? |
| 22:06.47 | greycat | Traditional 2FA is "one thing you have, one thing you know", and a memorized-and-typed password qualifies. This "random 20 to 30 character string" doesn't qualify. |
| 22:07.04 | ratrace | noisemaker: yes |
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| 22:07.30 | ratrace | noisemaker: you're using the installer ISO, right? did you verify the checksum after download? |
| 22:08.03 | karlpinc | greycat: I just don't seeing you convincing me that there's difference in security between a password that's easily memorized and one that isn't. |
| 22:08.12 | ratrace | karlpinc: I thought you said this was a policy for other users; do they also have the passwords on a second device? |
| 22:08.31 | greycat | oh god, I missed more stupidity while I was off washing dishes... |
| 22:08.43 | ratrace | here's the thing with 2FA. the second factor protects the first, nothing else |
| 22:08.45 | noisemaker | ratrace: I did check it from all 3 hash's. debian-10.6.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso |
| 22:08.49 | karlpinc | ratrace: I don't know what they do. I suspect they memorize their passwords, and have a device holding their key pair. |
| 22:09.06 | greycat | then you should be doing that too |
| 22:09.15 | greycat | sounds like your users are better at this than you are |
| 22:10.01 | jhutchins | karlpinc: https://xkcd.com/936/ |
| 22:10.04 | ratrace | karlpinc: so if you enforced a proper 2FA with, say, yubikeys, you'd know 100% what the factors involved were |
| 22:10.25 | karlpinc | greycat: I have a different password for every password I've ever created. There's no way I'm going to memiorise them all. |
| 22:10.31 | ratrace | you'd know that there's literally two devices needed to log in. their laptops (for example) with the ssh privkey, and their yubikey as the second physical device |
| 22:11.12 | karlpinc | ratrace: That's not the security system I'm paid to maintain. |
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| 22:14.16 | karlpinc | I'm not saying it's the most secure system possible. But it is more secure than just keys. Which is where we started the conversation. |
| 22:15.00 | greycat | 16:30 karlpinc> I'm running xfce4-terminal. |
| 22:15.02 | greycat | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/196098/copy-paste-in-xfce4-terminal-adds-0-and-1/422629 |
| 22:15.06 | greycat | There's my guess. |
| 22:15.34 | ratrace | eek! |
| 22:15.35 | karlpinc | greycat: I always knew you were a genius! |
| 22:15.52 | noisemaker | ratrace: I will try another USB key. I restarted the installation this time from ncurses UI, and I got the same error. |
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| 22:30.30 | noisemaker | ratrace: usb key issues, I tried with another and things are going better. |
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| 22:35.13 | ratrace | nice |
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| 23:40.01 | strk | how dangerous would it be to install a mailman deb package for Buster in a Jessie machine ? |
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