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| 01:09.54 | oxek | I was told I should probably report to my distro a segfault in curl that's in debian stable |
| 01:10.03 | oxek | so if anyone is interested, this causes a segfault: |
| 01:10.07 | oxek | echo test | curl -F 'file=<-' https://0x0.st |
| 01:10.27 | oxek | I failed with reportbug earlier today, so am not able to report it properly myself |
| 01:10.37 | ryouma | huh, oldstable confirms |
| 01:10.48 | ryouma | i never understood that <- syntax though |
| 01:11.07 | oxek | the segfault seems to exist at least since curl 7.38 |
| 01:11.28 | oxek | I don't get the syntax either, but it should not segfault |
| 01:11.44 | ryouma | unless 0x0 is literally sending that string |
| 01:12.06 | ryouma | i had a coworker once who put no such file or directory in a file and then catted it |
| 01:12.48 | ryouma | oxek: shouldn't the shell give nonzero for $? |
| 01:13.11 | oxek | ryouma: I'm new to linux, still learning, so I don't know the answer to that |
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| 01:13.15 | oxek | segfaults are weird |
| 01:13.45 | ryouma | oxek: try echo test | curl '-sSfFf:1=<-' ix.io |
| 01:14.00 | ryouma | that works at least |
| 01:14.23 | ryouma | i don't remember what to do to create a specific error so i can't test it but i think it should be an exit code |
| 01:15.03 | ryouma | dist-upgrades |
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| 01:22.00 | oxek | ryouma: you are right, it's the server being annoying by sending that string |
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| 01:22.53 | ryouma | lol |
| 01:27.35 | ryouma | (/bin/sleep 100&(sleep 2;pkill -11 /bin/sleep)) |
| 01:27.46 | ryouma | you will get exit code of 1 |
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| 02:57.25 | another | !ask |
| 02:57.25 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 02:58.02 | another | I have a problem with btrfs; Debian buster; can't mount |
| 02:58.09 | another | mount: /srv: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/vdc, missing codepage or helper program, or other error. |
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| 03:20.04 | JordiGH | Why do packages still install stuff under /etc/init.d? |
| 03:20.09 | JordiGH | Does systemd actually use those? |
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| 03:20.41 | themill | it can, yes |
| 03:20.55 | themill | (plus not everyone uses systemd) |
| 03:21.18 | JordiGH | Well, I am using systemd. |
| 03:21.23 | JordiGH | So why do I have /etc/init.d? |
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| 03:22.07 | themill | how do you suppose that you'd not have it |
| 03:22.29 | somiaj | Until recentally debian offically supported systemd and sysvinit, so many packages provide both systemd unit files and sysv init.d files. |
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| 03:22.45 | themill | or how do you supposed that packages would be usable with different init systems? |
| 03:23.34 | another | btw: problem solved |
| 03:23.53 | JordiGH | themill: I figure that if I'm using systemd, I don't need scripts to start/stop services, that systemd units would do the whole work. |
| 03:24.00 | JordiGH | So why do I have init.d? |
| 03:24.13 | sney | aiui, debian tries to distribute software as is from upstream, as much as possible. so if upstream includes a sysv-style init script, it goes into the package unless there's a good reason not to |
| 03:24.42 | JordiGH | Okay, so it's a vestigial appendix. |
| 03:24.58 | ryouma | it's a good policy :) |
| 03:24.59 | sney | it's more like a second kidney |
| 03:24.59 | JordiGH | We had this script, you're not using, but we'll stick it in /etc/init.d anyway. |
| 03:25.48 | ryouma | the biggest bug debian ever had was produced because a package was changed i think |
| 03:26.02 | JordiGH | The OpenSSL bug. |
| 03:26.06 | ryouma | yes |
| 03:26.21 | sney | the wonderful thing about debian is it's not made for only one use case. so maybe you're not using an init.d script but someone else might be, for whatever reason. you're both supported. hooray! |
| 03:26.38 | JordiGH | Okay, just wanted to make sure I really don't need it. |
| 03:26.52 | themill | JordiGH: you're not using selinux either, but you have those libraries installed so that others can use selinux. same for ldap etc etc |
| 03:26.56 | JordiGH | systemd units for Debian packages aren't written to refer to init.d scripts, are they? |
| 03:27.11 | themill | some are |
| 03:27.22 | somiaj | and debian packages don't install files based on which init system (or other configuration choice) you make. And the disk space lost by having /etc/init.d/ files in packages is so little. |
| 03:27.23 | JordiGH | Oh no. |
| 03:27.28 | themill | (but generally not as that's a crap way of doing it) |
| 03:27.35 | sney | you should be able to tell pretty easily by looking at the unit file |
| 03:27.52 | JordiGH | sney: That's a lot of unit files to look through.. let's grep. |
| 03:28.11 | another | 132K /etc/init.d/ |
| 03:28.32 | JordiGH | Yes, it's small, but so was my appendix. |
| 03:28.42 | themill | wonders what problem JordiGH is trying to solve |
| 03:28.51 | JordiGH | not everything is a problem. |
| 03:28.56 | JordiGH | Some questions are just questions. |
| 03:28.59 | JordiGH | I don't have a problem. |
| 03:29.03 | JordiGH | Do you have problem? |
| 03:29.05 | JordiGH | Do we have a problem? |
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| 03:29.13 | JordiGH | Do you want a problem? |
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| 03:29.36 | sney | I would say it's a safe assumption that anything in the big tasks / big popcon numbers is working with systemd directly. anything with a duct tape unit that is just a wrapper for a shell script is probably on the fringes with 1 person maintaining it who didn't have time |
| 03:30.03 | sney | certainly now that systemd has been the default for a few years |
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| 03:31.17 | somiaj | The recent vote I think will have effects on this as well |
| 03:31.41 | klys | what was the recent vote? |
| 03:31.43 | sney | and #debian is typically a support channel, so usually when someone has a "why" question it's related to something practical they're trying to figure out. but if you want a problem, I'm sure one can be devised |
| 03:32.18 | somiaj | klys: https://www.debian.org/vote/2019/vote_002 -- it was last year, but still recent in my mind |
| 03:32.30 | sney | 2019 does feel like yesterday, for several reasons |
| 03:32.37 | themill | heh |
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| 03:33.02 | JordiGH | Hahahaha the outcome graph |
| 03:33.23 | JordiGH | Sometimes I wish real governments were run like Debian. |
| 03:34.39 | themill | In the sense of argued endlessly about the same things and occasionally tried to rip themselves apart because quite minor things were blown out of all proportion? |
| 03:35.18 | sney | having more clarity as to the popularity of runner-up positions is nice |
| 03:35.50 | themill | some sort of 'preferential' vote is certainly much more sensible than first past the post |
| 03:36.56 | sney | also, endless argument with periodic loss of perspective might be an integral part of a functional representative government. but oh, I can see the offtopic weeds from here |
| 03:36.56 | JordiGH | themill: But the endless debate makes for such a good show. Sure beats watching C-SPAN. http://aaonline.fr/search.php?search&criteria[sequenceId-is]=6512_en_Debian%20init%20case |
| 03:39.17 | JordiGH | Ooh, runs with no flash now. |
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| 03:46.04 | JordiGH | The peanut gallery is my favourite character. |
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| 04:37.24 | redbrass | How do I tell the installer that a) I need the firmware drivers for my wifi card, and b) use the wifi card for installation instead of eth0 (or equivalent)? |
| 04:39.04 | lxkraken | Is this your ISO: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/10.5.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-dvd/firmware-10.5.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso |
| 04:39.29 | lxkraken | That ISO includes any non-free drivers you might need. |
| 04:40.46 | redbrass | ok. I'll give it a shot. I was using the netinst iso. AND the bullseye testing iso. (I need the newer kernel for my hardware - I'm attempting to fix a black screen issue with xorg...) |
| 04:41.31 | redbrass | thanks for the link.. my google searches hadn't found that one yet... |
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| 04:48.57 | somiaj | !testing installer |
| 04:48.58 | dpkg | Repeat after me: the testing installer is for testing the <installer>, not for installing <testing>. To install testing, do a minimal installation using the <stable> installer and ask me about <stable->testing>. Installer bugs should be filed against the debian-installer pseudopackage. https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ |
| 04:49.54 | somiaj | redbrass: Tradtionally it is often suggested to install a minimum system with the netinstaller, then dist-upgrade to testing. You can read the install guide for how to supply firmware to the offical 'free' installer, but most just use the unoffical 'non-free' installer with the firmware included for most wifi cards. |
| 04:50.04 | somiaj | *install a minimum stable system |
| 04:51.58 | alex11 | redbrass, for what it's worth backports exist too if you just need a kernel |
| 04:55.41 | redbrass | I've tried the usual troubleshooting first, Backports, nvidia commercial drivers, etc. Today I installed Arch Linux (for the first time) and was able to get lightdm and kde running. So I know my hardware *can* work. But most the resources I know offer deb or rpm files, so I'd rather stick with Debian. Unfortunately Debian isn't giving me a useful install easily. |
| 04:56.57 | lxkraken | redbrass: Maybe try a more recent version: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/bullseye_di_alpha2/amd64/iso-dvd/firmware-bullseye-DI-alpha2-amd64-DVD-1.iso |
| 04:57.19 | redbrass | Ausus TUF A15 laptop - Ryzen 7 4800H, with Nvidia GTX 1650. It took a bit but I found out the Nvidia drivers are NOT the issue... it is something about the XOrg config. So I'm trying to install a debian system with a more recent kernel (natively, not via backports) to see if that works better. |
| 04:57.20 | somiaj | redbrass: It might just be missing firmware, lots of graphics cards need firmware these days too. Debian DSFG just states that all packages in main must be free, but debian does provide most firmware in its non-free repo |
| 04:57.27 | redbrass | I'll give that one a shot too. Thanks. |
| 04:59.06 | somiaj | redbrass: you shouldn't need an xorg config, so if you have xorg.conf, that could be your problem. I would just use the text installer and worry about xorg at a future date, so far non of your hardware should need testing (that you have shared) |
| 05:00.52 | lxkraken | redbrass: somiaj is right. An xorg config file might be causing you more trouble than you think. |
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| 06:11.34 | redbrass | Thanks for the help gang. I installed with both of the ISOs linked above. Neither could find my wireless adapter. So I hooked up a 50 foot network cable from the basement and did a wired install. Neither was able to give me a stable system. I'm getting a PPM error that breaks any graphical steps (after a fresh boot) |
| 06:11.34 | apt | redbrass: de rien |
| 06:12.50 | redbrass | I previously fixed this by installing the Nvidia commercial driver. So I tried that and I can't even get the file to run properly. And there are a bunch of noveux errors dumped to the terminal. Even doing a lspci is hanging the box. |
| 06:13.02 | redbrass | running ip addr does not list the wireless device at all. |
| 06:14.06 | redbrass | so, I think I am probably better served by moving to a different distro for a few months. (I know I could fix each error individually, but I'm after a low maintenance box, and that effort is contrary to the low maintenance focus...) |
| 06:14.38 | redbrass | ironically, I know Arch Linux installs properly. I don't consider Arch Linux low maintenance. :) |
| 06:14.57 | redbrass | I appreciate the efforts here though. |
| 06:14.58 | diogenes_ | redbrass, what unfriendly PC is that? a lenovo? |
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| 06:15.39 | redbrass | Asus TUF A15, with a Ryzen 7 4800H and Nvidia GTX 1650. |
| 06:16.40 | redbrass | The hardware is sweet - the installs are FAST. Getting the install right though.... I feel like I'm back in 2003 installing Gentoo for the first time.. :) |
| 06:16.44 | diogenes_ | so it's quite new, i'd recommend you to try liquorix and xanmode kernels. |
| 06:17.36 | redbrass | diogenes_: That is why I was trying out the Bullseye install tonight... after the newer kernels and hardware support. |
| 06:17.58 | somiaj | redbrass: what is your wifi chipset? |
| 06:18.52 | somiaj | YOu should be able to use buster just fine with that nvidia card you have, as I said use the text installer, then install the non-free nvidia driver from debian's repos. |
| 06:18.59 | diogenes_ | redbrass, it's not the same, as a final instance i'd give xanmod a try before going to other distro. |
| 06:19.16 | redbrass | realtek 86xx (I'd have to fire up the machine again to get to the specific model) |
| 06:19.42 | somiaj | I think my issue was I am out of date on what nvidia card numbers, so it might just need a backport kernel. One second |
| 06:19.46 | somiaj | ,v nvidia-kernel-dkms |
| 06:19.47 | judd | Package: nvidia-kernel-dkms on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 340.106-1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.132-1; stretch/non-free: 390.138-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 418.74-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 418.152.00-1; buster-backports/non-free: 440.100-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 450.57-3; sid/non-free: 450.57-3 |
| 06:19.55 | redbrass | somiaj: I've tried buster. I ran into all these problems there too. I've seen some references to others running Debian on this box, but not problem free initially. |
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| 06:23.04 | somiaj | hmm, seems nvidia has updated their site so I can't as easly see what cards are supported, the 418.52 only supports the 1660, maybe 1650 was added to the 418.152 |
| 06:23.48 | somiaj | but the 440.100 from buster-backcports supports that card just fine. As for the wifi card, unless you have more info, it might just be you need the firmware and kernel from backports |
| 06:23.53 | somiaj | ,v firmware-realtek |
| 06:23.54 | judd | Package: firmware-realtek on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 0.43; jessie-security/non-free: 20161130-5~deb8u1; stretch/non-free: 20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-2~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-2; buster-backports/non-free: 20200619-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 20200619-1; sid/non-free: 20200619-1 |
| 06:24.37 | redbrass | judd: firmware-realtek is installed on the laptop - still can't see the wireless device. |
| 06:24.42 | somiaj | redbrass: anyways, it will take a bit of manual work, but you could get buster to work with that hardare from what I see, but due to needing non-free firmware and non-free drivers, it will take a bit more work than something like arch that will install non-free stuff without making you do extra steps |
| 06:24.44 | redbrass | lspci lists it though |
| 06:25.05 | somiaj | as I said, it could be you need the firmware from backports, and a kernel from backports |
| 06:25.28 | somiaj | So you could get debian stable to work on that machine, but it will take some knowledge of debian and doing things from a text console and wired interface |
| 06:27.44 | redbrass | I have that know how.. :) Been using Linux since 2002ish. This isn't new... I'm just getting lazy and prefer low maintenance over a high(er) maintencance system (like Gentoo or such...) And Ubuntu has burned me by retiring repos/versions quickly. |
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| 06:28.20 | somiaj | redbrass: Well here is the steps I would do. 1) Install a minimum system (don't choose a desktop) using the stable netinstall. Install over a wired interface |
| 06:28.30 | somiaj | the installer should ask to enable backports, do that. Also enable non-free |
| 06:28.52 | redbrass | This is why I luv IRC though - awesome folks who are willing to offer assistance. :) |
| 06:28.59 | Praematura | So three times now in the past 4 days, my Debian system has "frozen" on me and NOTHING is in the logs. Would someone like to tell me what could be happening, or was me choosing Debian for a server/desktop OS a bad choice? Because this keeps happening and it's very frustrating. |
| 06:29.08 | somiaj | 2) install the realtek-firmware and linux-image-amd64 from backports (apt install -t buster-backports realtek-firmware linux-image-amd64), and then reboot and get your wifi working |
| 06:29.17 | somiaj | 3) install the non-free nvidia driver from backports |
| 06:29.22 | somiaj | 4) install the desktop of your choice |
| 06:29.31 | klys | praematura, are you running a desktop? |
| 06:29.36 | redbrass | Praematura: could be hardware related - I've seen bad memory have that sort of behavior. |
| 06:30.13 | somiaj | Praematura: are you running a graphical enviroment (Xorg)? Or is this all console base. If the linux kernel in debian is freezing, it could be hardware (or some bug with the hardware you have). |
| 06:30.27 | Praematura | kyls, yes, xfce |
| 06:30.30 | somiaj | Praematura: in general debian is a good choice for servers, provided it supports the hardware of the machine. |
| 06:30.38 | somiaj | Praematura: do you have an ssh server running? |
| 06:30.59 | Praematura | I will note: this was NOT an issue until a few days ago when I lost power. |
| 06:31.30 | klys | praematura, I haven't tried xfce myself, though I would advise testing it for a day or two without a desktop (try a windowmanager + compton) and see where that gets you. |
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| 06:31.46 | somiaj | Praematura: reason I ask, is sometimes xorg will crash, but the system is still running and you can ssh into it. If that is the case, the issue is probably with the gpu. You can also enable presistant logging with systemd that can help (though everything should also be in /var/log/syslog) |
| 06:32.15 | somiaj | Praematura: power loss can cause corruption of files, maybe try debsums and see if you have corrupt files |
| 06:32.18 | somiaj | !debsums |
| 06:32.18 | dpkg | debsums is a utility that will check a package's files against their checksums. The "-a" argument will instruct it to also check configuration files: "apt install debsums; debsums -a -s". Almost all packages come with md5sums included in the package or apt will have generated them for you; generate missing ones with "apt-get install --reinstall `debsums -l`". Ask me about <md5sums>. |
| 06:32.27 | Praematura | The thing is, Xorg doesn't crash: the screen just freezes, and everything there stays until the screen goes blank. Network connectivity dies. |
| 06:32.44 | diogenes_ | Praematura, BTRFS by any chance? |
| 06:32.57 | Praematura | Originally I found out is was going into 'suspend' mode and had fixed that, but now something seems to have been reset. |
| 06:33.59 | Praematura | [BTRFS] Oh HELL no, I'll never touch that filesystem. ext4 only |
| 06:34.33 | Praematura | Up until the power outage, my system had been running without restart for months. |
| 06:34.38 | redbrass | When this happens try hitting CTRL-ALT-F1 a couple of times. If that brings up a terminal, try logging in. If you are able too then the graphical system has frozen. If you can't do that then you are truly locked up... |
| 06:35.01 | Praematura | redbrass: Thank you, will write that down right now to try. |
| 06:35.38 | somiaj | redbrass: graphical system locking up will take the keyboard with it most the time, that is why I suggested ssh. |
| 06:35.41 | diogenes_ | Praematura, setting editor > xfce4-session > SaveOnExit is it enabled? |
| 06:35.41 | redbrass | once at a TTY terminal, you can hit CTRL-F7 to return to the graphical interface |
| 06:36.02 | somiaj | If the network is truely going down, it sounds like a kernel lockup. There is the magic sys key you can try |
| 06:36.17 | redbrass | somiaj: agreed, but troubleshooting is a series of steps to isolating the specific culprit. |
| 06:36.49 | Praematura | The worrying thing is NONE of the logs in /var/log show anything during the freeze. No errors, no warnings, nothing. |
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| 06:37.55 | somiaj | kernel panics/lockups won't log things, because the lockup happens faster than it can be logged. The main on you should check is /var/log/syslog |
| 06:38.14 | somiaj | though I would follow klys suggestion, and disable the desktop (its a server right?) and see if it still locksup |
| 06:39.51 | Praematura | Sadly it's both a server AND a desktop, because my partner didn't want me to have two separate systems. But like I said, I've been running buster for months and zero issues until our power outage about a week ago. Now it just keeps "freezing", and I haven't been able to find any sort of kernal errors or anytning else. |
| 06:40.12 | somiaj | Praematura: try debsums and see if any packages are corrupt, then reinstall them. |
| 06:40.55 | somiaj | Praematura: are you sure that debian hasn't had a kernel update in that time too. Maybe trying to older kernel would help, if it is the case the older kernel works, you have a regression bug. |
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| 06:41.13 | somiaj | I assume you are running the stock kernel (not backports?) |
| 06:41.38 | Praematura | somiaj: I'll give debsums a try. I actually did an 'apt-get upgrade' and the only things updated were my nVidia drivers (probably a good thing) and Firefox. |
| 06:42.02 | somiaj | nvidia drivers could cause xorg to crash, though often times ssh/network will still be functional. |
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| 06:43.06 | Praematura | Yeah, in this case, SSH is non-responsive as well. |
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| 06:48.01 | Praematura | 'debsums -s' didn't show anything concerning, just a few changed files from the 'aspell-*' packages |
| 06:50.58 | somiaj | follow the instructions at the top of /usr/share/doc/systemd/README.Debian to enable presistant logging in systemd. This could make searching through the logs via journalctl after a crash a bit easier, maybe that can help you track down the issue |
| 06:52.16 | Praematura | somiaj: The sad thing is: it's never a crash. My system literally freezes, and the only way to get it back is to powercycle. |
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| 06:52.52 | Praematura | It's sat in the "frozen" mode for many, many hours. |
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| 06:55.06 | somiaj | That will still make it so you can access all the systemd logs after a reboot (though they should be in /var/log/syslog, you can then search them with journalctl) |
| 06:55.17 | somiaj | It might give you an idea of exactly what was the last thing before the freeze |
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| 06:59.20 | Praematura | somiaj: I will give it a try, thank you. |
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| 08:24.53 | guix-vits | Thanks people, for Your work. |
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| 09:56.52 | Fibonnax | morning |
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| 09:58.42 | cadmio | Hello |
| 09:58.59 | cadmio | What's the name of the packer for GMP the GNU Multiple Precision Arithmetic Library ? |
| 10:00.46 | petn-randall | cadmio: The person who maintains the package? |
| 10:01.20 | cadmio | sorry *package |
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| 10:44.43 | oxek | does paste.debian.net have a way I can upload a textfile from terminal? |
| 10:45.51 | jelly | !pastebinit |
| 10:45.51 | dpkg | A command-line tool to send data to a <pastebin>. To paste e.g. your sources.list do "apt-get install pastebinit; pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list"; to paste the output of a program do e.g. "dmesg 2>&1 | pastebinit". For a list of pastebin sites do "pastebinit -l". See also <pastebinit config>, <nopaste>. |
| 10:46.09 | jelly | oxek, pipe or redirect into "pastebinit -b https://paste.debian.net" |
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| 10:51.00 | Lope | How can I install chromium 85 or newer on debian buster? |
| 10:51.12 | Lope | I've enabled backports. But not sure how to search for it in backports. |
| 10:51.21 | Lope | I did `apt cache policy chromium` and didn't see it there. |
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| 10:53.22 | petn-randall | ,v chromium |
| 10:53.23 | judd | Package: chromium on amd64 -- jessie: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; stretch: 73.0.3683.75-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 73.0.3683.75-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 73.0.3683.75-1~deb9u1; buster: 83.0.4103.116-1~deb10u3; buster-security: 83.0.4103.116-1~deb10u3; bullseye: 83.0.4103.116-3+b1; sid: 83.0.4103.116-3+b1 |
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| 10:53.44 | UncleCid | chromium-browser perhaps |
| 10:53.58 | petn-randall | Lope: buster already has the newest version packaged. 85 is not packaged yet. |
| 10:54.20 | UncleCid | ,v chromium-browser |
| 10:54.20 | petn-randall | Lope: So if you really can't live with 83, you can install it from the upstream website. |
| 10:54.21 | judd | No package named 'chromium-browser' was found in amd64. |
| 10:55.03 | Lope | petn-randall, so you mean find a .deb or tar package from chromium's site? |
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| 10:55.25 | petn-randall | Lope: yes |
| 10:55.32 | Lope | petn-randall, thanks bud. |
| 10:55.53 | Lope | petn-randall, So when a new chromium version gets packaged, would it appear in backports? |
| 10:56.02 | Lope | I doubt it'll show up in buster? |
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| 10:59.45 | tomreyn | Lope: https://software.opensuse.org/download/package?package=ungoogled-chromium&project=home:ungoogled_chromium has Chromium 84 |
| 11:00.05 | tomreyn | (for buster) |
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| 11:03.50 | petn-randall | Lope: It'll show up in buster, it's one of the very few exception of things that get feature upgrades in stable. The reasoning behind it is that browsers become less useful with time if they don't support current web standards, and also because security updates get more and more difficult to backport with time. |
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| 11:06.55 | oxek | jelly: pastebinit gives me some python error |
| 11:09.52 | tomreyn | oxek: you can use termbin.com instead, if this works for you: some_command_with_textual_output | nc termbin.com 9999 |
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| 11:12.02 | oxek | tomreyn: that works, but I prefer p.d.n because it's https upload, and because I can delete the entry afterwards |
| 11:13.37 | tomreyn | oxek: then you'll need to find a way to solve "some python error" |
| 11:14.18 | unborn | oxek: you might write your own pastebin script with little knowledge of php and html, you don't need even need sql.. just couple of text files and host it on your own or solve some python errors right there |
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| 11:15.21 | oxek | this is the pastebinit error I get https://paste.debian.net/hidden/7c0d4939/ |
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| 11:48.05 | oxek | petn-randall: I thought chromium is no longer being updated in debian due to dependency on python2 |
| 11:48.37 | oxek | debian still has only chromium 83 in repos for over a month now, despite numerous security fixes in 84 |
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| 11:51.43 | petn-randall | oxek: I rather understand this an a long-term issue, python2 is still in all Debian releases. |
| 11:51.58 | oxek | and because chromium cannot be built on sid, it will not go into testing, which means it is not suitable for stable |
| 11:51.59 | petn-randall | ("all" being stable, testing, unstable) |
| 11:53.39 | oxek | right now, I'd say chromium is not to be used in debian, and if you really need it, get it from snap |
| 11:53.47 | petn-randall | oxek: Only RC bug on chromium is #967124, which is only about unversioned python dependencies. chromium 84 is aready in experimental. |
| 11:53.48 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/967124 in src:chromium (open, bullseye, sid): «chromium: Unversioned Python removal in sid/bullseye»; severity: serious; opened: 2020-08-04; last modified: 2020-08-04. |
| 11:54.39 | petn-randall | It might be delayed due to some transitions, but I'm only going by what tracker.debian.org says. |
| 11:55.32 | oxek | chromium 84 was released 2020-07-14, and the fixes were not backported to 83 by debian. It is highly unusual for a package to remain in debian with known security issues for this long. |
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| 11:58.51 | oxek | the version in experimental https://packages.debian.org/source/experimental/chromium does not even build chromium |
| 11:58.58 | oxek | it is just the language packs |
| 11:59.21 | oxek | and it has been like that since August 1st |
| 11:59.39 | oxek | so I'd still say chromium is dead in debain for now |
| 11:59.49 | oxek | until upstream fixes the python issue |
| 11:59.53 | cronolio | hi, how i can use less as pager if alternatives says /bin/less but mare is used as pager when i type ls /bin/<tab> for example |
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| 12:01.04 | oxek | cronolio: that's not more being used, that's your shell's internal pager |
| 12:01.23 | petn-randall | cronolio: Do you have $PAGER set? |
| 12:01.29 | cronolio | even set export PAGER=less doesn't help |
| 12:01.43 | cronolio | by default PAGER is not set |
| 12:01.52 | oxek | petn-randall: "source package has 2 unsatisfiable build dependencies" at https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/chromium |
| 12:02.41 | cronolio | what the shell internal pager |
| 12:05.34 | petn-randall | oxek: python2-minimal exists on amd64, which is why I'm confused by this info. Might be a transient build error, or it really was like that in the past. |
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| 12:09.58 | EdePopede | cronolio: it says "More", not "more". htop only shows me xterm and bash, no pager. seems bash handles it on its own. |
| 12:10.08 | oxek | I don't remember the details, just passing on the info from a month ago, that chromium cannot be built anymore on debian and will remain that way until upstream fixes it's dependency on python2 |
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| 12:11.45 | FuzzyByte | cronolio: Why exactly do you want less to page that in the first place? Just curious. |
| 12:11.45 | EdePopede | cronolio: not even C-z works, try `ls /bin | less` and it will work. |
| 12:11.54 | FuzzyByte | ^ |
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| 12:12.05 | FuzzyByte | might ad well just use ls for that |
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| 12:14.55 | EdePopede | it was just to demonstrate usage of internal vs external pager |
| 12:15.25 | EdePopede | fun fact, the tabbing produces 2 columns here, while a plain ls creates 4 for /bin |
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| 12:16.03 | FuzzyByte | ncie i guess |
| 12:17.14 | EdePopede | right, totally colorful :) |
| 12:18.54 | FuzzyByte | I use zsh, mainly for that lovely cycling autocompletion, and all the other features it has. |
| 12:19.12 | FuzzyByte | i wonder whether the cols are different there too. |
| 12:19.33 | EdePopede | does it use LS_COLORS? |
| 12:19.38 | EdePopede | ah, columns |
| 12:20.02 | FuzzyByte | ye, sorry |
| 12:20.15 | EdePopede | this one always gets me *g* |
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| 12:39.48 | k3tan | hi, the latest version of virtualbox doesn't install properly on debian 10.5 due to a few dependency issues (not being the latest versions). is there a timeframe of when they're likely to be updated? libc6, libqt5, libvpx6 are the packages. |
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| 12:42.11 | nkuttler | !errors |
| 12:42.11 | dpkg | If you don't tell us the exact error messages you get, we can't tell you what's wrong, and it's also useful to know exactly what command you're typing. Please look for the *first* error that occurs, as this is often the cause of later errors -- ask me about <localized errors> too. Please don't paste in the channel, use a pastebin instead; ask me about <pastebin>. |
| 12:42.14 | nkuttler | !bat |
| 12:42.14 | dpkg | [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 12:42.30 | oxek | k3tan: libc6 will be updated in debian 11, so 2022 |
| 12:42.50 | nkuttler | ,v virtualbox |
| 12:42.51 | judd | Package: virtualbox on amd64 -- jessie/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; jessie-security/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; stretch-backports/contrib: 5.2.24-dfsg-4~bpo9+1; sid/contrib: 6.1.12-dfsg-9 |
| 12:43.00 | nkuttler | ah, it's not even in buster.. |
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| 12:43.13 | oxek | it's not even in bullseye |
| 12:43.34 | oxek | virtualbox has been removed from debian |
| 12:43.36 | nkuttler | k3tan: libvirt/virt-manager and kvm/qemu is nice |
| 12:44.25 | oxek | nkuttler: I could never get bidirectional clipboard and file copy/paste in those, only virtualbox has that working reliably |
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| 12:45.21 | nkuttler | oxek: i hear you, but that's still better than totally broken |
| 12:45.44 | nkuttler | supposedly it should work with spice |
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| 12:48.45 | petn-randall | oxek: clipboard works fine back and forth with virt-manager, never used file copy/paste. |
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| 12:49.07 | petn-randall | screen resize and HW acceleration also work fine, though I remember a dark past where this wasn't the case. |
| 12:49.50 | nkuttler | i use linux and windows vms with virt-manager, everything works fine except for copy pasting, but i can't say i spent time on getting that to work |
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| 12:55.18 | blebz | W3rD |
| 12:55.33 | FuzzyByte | blebz: what |
| 12:55.44 | blebz | Err.. Hello |
| 12:55.51 | FuzzyByte | hi i gues |
| 12:55.53 | FuzzyByte | s |
| 12:55.54 | blebz | Werd |
| 12:56.02 | FuzzyByte | Okay... |
| 12:56.25 | blebz | We used to say it back in the 90's |
| 12:56.52 | blebz | Now it just makes you sound like a feckles village idiot. |
| 12:57.07 | blebz | feckless even |
| 12:57.27 | FuzzyByte | it does. |
| 12:57.32 | FuzzyByte | Lol. |
| 12:57.54 | petn-randall | FuzzyByte, blebz, do you have a support question? |
| 12:58.12 | FuzzyByte | I don't. |
| 12:58.22 | FuzzyByte | Sorry or the sudden off-topic |
| 12:58.40 | blebz | Yeh .. Does anyone know where there is a good newbies guide for Debian? Something that shows you how to set up paths and set-up sudo and basic stuff like that? |
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| 12:59.08 | blebz | Also why does my computer keep going to sleep? |
| 12:59.27 | FuzzyByte | blebz: probably your de, check in the graphical tool of it |
| 12:59.49 | blebz | de? |
| 12:59.58 | FuzzyByte | desktop environment, sorry. |
| 13:00.12 | FuzzyByte | basically what gives you windows and stuff |
| 13:00.20 | FuzzyByte | and fancy bars etc |
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| 13:00.27 | blebz | That's OK .. |
| 13:00.39 | petn-randall | blebz: https://debian-handbook.info/ |
| 13:00.54 | petn-randall | blebz: That's an ebook that's a good starting point. |
| 13:01.07 | blebz | Nice one, thanks petn-randall |
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| 13:01.44 | petn-randall | blebz: Regarding your suspend, I'd check the power management settings in your DE. It's likely that it's set to go to sleep when the machine is idle for a while. |
| 13:01.54 | FuzzyByte | ^ |
| 13:02.26 | blebz | Yeh.. I did try that.. but I think maybe it lost the settings when I restarted. |
| 13:02.28 | petn-randall | In gnome it's settings -> Power -> Automatic Suspend. |
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| 13:02.53 | blebz | Dang I shouldn't have put gnome on ze boxen. |
| 13:03.21 | petn-randall | Nothing per se wrong with that. It comes with sane defaults for most things. |
| 13:03.26 | blebz | I am using it to SSH into anyway.. doh.. why did I put gnome on it? |
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| 13:03.51 | blebz | Now I gotta go downstairs! |
| 13:04.57 | petn-randall | blebz: At least you still now where your boxes are still standing ... ;) |
| 13:05.04 | FuzzyByte | blebz: install a vnc server to remote control it graphicall, the best of luck |
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| 13:05.55 | blebz | Yeh I guess I could set-up vnc .. hmmm... |
| 13:08.00 | FuzzyByte | blebz: install tightvncserver on the computer you want to control, and xtightvncviewer on the computer you want to control your other computer from. |
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| 13:08.37 | FuzzyByte | ^ personal preference only tho, anything worns |
| 13:08.40 | FuzzyByte | work |
| 13:08.41 | FuzzyByte | s |
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| 14:06.40 | blebz | Thanks |
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| 14:25.29 | hassoon | every subwindow in playonlinux is always empty like this: https://i.imgur.com/VrfuEVJ.png |
| 14:25.32 | hassoon | anyone who can tell me what's wrong with my playonlinux? i use debian buster/10 |
| 14:28.10 | unborn | playonlinux isnt this thingy to running windows craps on linux? |
| 14:29.43 | unborn | oh it is...I remember it correctly.. hassoon playonlinux - that's whats wrong with it self. |
| 14:30.23 | FuzzyByte | hassoon: try lutris or wine |
| 14:31.05 | hassoon | FuzzyByte: lutris.. heard of that |
| 14:31.53 | FuzzyByte | http://duckduckgo.com/lite?q=lutris |
| 14:32.24 | unborn | try steam or grow up - perhaps use device for games like a console like an ps4 etc. |
| 14:34.02 | FuzzyByte | Or dualboot windoze |
| 14:34.22 | AimHere | Or just use playonlinux |
| 14:34.48 | FuzzyByte | AimHere: then he should get it to work first |
| 14:35.04 | jmcnaught | He just asked for help, which is what this channel is for. |
| 14:35.15 | FuzzyByte | also SuperTuxKart is a good game, change my mind. |
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| 14:40.28 | jmcnaught | hassoon: playonlinux seems to be working here, do you have any more information? Tried running it from a terminal to get warnings or errors? |
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| 14:52.37 | beelzebuzz | playonlinux has setup scripts for windows apps as well. it's not just for games |
| 14:54.04 | FuzzyByte | nice i guess |
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| 15:36.13 | carlesc | I am currently running socat to listen to a TCP port and redirect a serial port to it whenever a client connects. Can I also execute a script using socat *after* the client connects but *before* the serial port redirection begins? |
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| 19:15.22 | jhutchins | I wonder what keystroke(s) causes irssi to jump to the top of the command buffer... |
| 19:16.15 | evilbug | wooow |
| 19:16.21 | evilbug | haven't heard about irssi in years. |
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| 20:26.10 | bigfluff | Is anybody using Cinnamon on Debian? Looking for a more 'traditional' desktop environment than Gnome, and not in love with KDE's bloat... |
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| 20:27.43 | FuzzyByte | bigfluff: I use Mate, it's nice. |
| 20:27.58 | amlchief | have someone else noticed constant chromium crashes lately on debian stable? should i try backports version? |
| 20:28.08 | jelly | also, most of KDE's thingies can be switched off |
| 20:28.28 | jelly | I basically use kde and xfce interchangeably with the same featureset |
| 20:28.31 | sney | KDE's bloat is mostly in your head, it has lower memory usage at idle than you'd expect. still not for everyone though. xfce is also popular |
| 20:28.51 | jelly | that indexer thing is not in their head |
| 20:29.08 | jelly | forgot what the name was, disabled it years ago |
| 20:29.17 | beelzebuzz | bigfluff: xfce/mate/cinnamon are the medium sized ones |
| 20:29.17 | jelly | asomething? nepomuk? |
| 20:29.23 | sney | I remember the indexer thing being an issue in kde4 but haven't run afoul of it since... 2016? |
| 20:30.30 | sney | I also disabled it years ago but I've had too many brand new profiles since then for it to still be disabled. |
| 20:31.25 | beelzebuzz | bigfluff: there's also pantheon from elementary os if you want something similar to osx |
| 20:31.32 | oxek | amlchief: don't use chromium in debian, it is no longer supported by debian |
| 20:31.49 | oxek | use some fork of chromium, or upstream chrome |
| 20:31.56 | oxek | (or the snap package) |
| 20:32.20 | amlchief | oxek, any suggestion for a fork of chromium? |
| 20:32.21 | sney | chromium is still supported, there's just an issue right now with the python dependency |
| 20:32.23 | bigfluff | Is there a way to install Plasma without all of the Kontacts + Konversation etc out-of-box? |
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| 20:32.26 | sney | debian doesn't eol things in stable |
| 20:32.36 | oxek | perhaps I am wrong then |
| 20:33.19 | oxek | amlchief: don't know yet, I'm still on the out-of-date 83 provided by debian |
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| 20:33.37 | beelzebuzz | bigfluff: plasma desktop is a thing |
| 20:33.46 | sney | bigfluff: sure, there are multiple metapackages and you can always pick and choose components. the 'kde-plasma-desktop' package will get you a pretty minimal starting point |
| 20:33.56 | jelly | if it was unsupported you would be told by the debian-security-support package (provided that's installed) |
| 20:33.57 | amlchief | me too, almost impossible to work, i.e. login to google cloud console or aws and get constant crashes |
| 20:34.07 | jelly | ,v chromium |
| 20:34.08 | judd | Package: chromium on amd64 -- jessie: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; stretch: 73.0.3683.75-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 73.0.3683.75-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 73.0.3683.75-1~deb9u1; buster: 83.0.4103.116-1~deb10u3; buster-security: 83.0.4103.116-1~deb10u3; bullseye: 83.0.4103.116-3+b1; sid: 83.0.4103.116-3+b1 |
| 20:34.33 | oxek | jelly: it's out-of-date over a month now, with known security issues |
| 20:34.47 | sney | amlchief: it's a version behind but shouldn't be crashing aiui, try with a clean profile |
| 20:34.57 | bigfluff | So basically I want to do minimal install, no DE, and then install plasma-desktop? |
| 20:35.09 | sney | oxek: again, there's an issue with a python dependency, but that's a far cry from "no longer supported" |
| 20:35.15 | jelly | oxek, but not officially unspported |
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| 20:35.27 | oxek | sney: you're right, I am likely overexaggerating |
| 20:35.48 | oxek | the fault is with upstream anyway, not debian |
| 20:35.50 | beelzebuzz | bigfluff: yup |
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| 20:36.20 | sney | the python issue looks like it'll be solved relatively soon with the python2-* compromise packages being kept in bullseye, just need to fix the build-deps in the package and it'll *probably* come down the pipe in a couple weeks (or less if it's considered truly urgent). |
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| 20:37.07 | bigfluff | Okay, I remember trying this.... how can I get the wi-fi interface up after installation/boot to minimal/bash? |
| 20:37.30 | jelly | it's unfortunate but firefox was lagging a lot more a couple years back |
| 20:37.35 | sney | these instructions are current for using ifupdown for wifi at cli: https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#Command_Line |
| 20:37.58 | jelly | debian has problems with fast-moving upstreams, and that includes both remaining web browsers |
| 20:38.05 | sney | you will probably need to use the firmware installer to have wifi right away too. |
| 20:38.13 | jelly | at least firefox has the ESR branch |
| 20:39.03 | oxek | I wish I was a debian dev, then I could fix some really low-hanging fruit identified by lintian |
| 20:39.25 | sney | patches welcome |
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| 20:40.59 | oxek | sney: I would not even know where to start. E.g. https://lintian.debian.org/tags/insecure-copyright-format-uri.html for one single package such as trash-cli. How would I go about it? |
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| 20:41.20 | sney | !tell oxek about nmg |
| 20:41.36 | oxek | (I'm using that as a very simple issue that I could fix, just to learn how to contribute to debian) |
| 20:41.53 | sney | those docs give the overview of debian's patching approach, then you make the patch and attach it to the appropriate bug report and tag it with 'patch' |
| 20:42.01 | beelzebuzz | bigfluff: depends but probably networkmanager |
| 20:42.11 | sney | #debian-mentors on OFTC is a great resource for learning how to contribute as well |
| 20:42.26 | FuzzyByte | bigfluff: nmtui or nmcli shoudl wirk |
| 20:42.33 | FuzzyByte | should work |
| 20:42.35 | oxek | sney: yeah, I think I'll try to learn how to do that. |
| 20:42.49 | oxek | it's a lot more involved that doing a simple github pull request |
| 20:43.10 | sney | I used to be a package maintainer but I quit because I couldn't keep up with it at that time in my life. I think I'm going to try to get back into it soon as well |
| 20:43.36 | NetTerminalGene | does anyone use samsung evo 860 ssd on buster? how compatible is it? do i need to set up trim? |
| 20:43.45 | yanmaani | oxek: There was a project to run lintian and send in automated patches |
| 20:43.46 | n4dir | if you want to contribute you could also do some work at wiki.debian.org, for example translations. or whatever needs some loving |
| 20:43.50 | yanmaani | debian janitor? |
| 20:44.08 | oxek | I wouldn't want to be a package maintainer for some package, I'd just like to fix some little issues that are relevant to debian packaging that don't come from upstream - such as the lintian-identified issues |
| 20:44.26 | oxek | n4dir: I can't even access the debian wiki :D |
| 20:44.40 | n4dir | ah, right, now i remember. then sorry |
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| 20:45.53 | oxek | NetTerminalGene: I used the non-evo version. Did not need to configure anything extra. I don't use trim though. |
| 20:45.57 | bigfluff | thanks FuzzyByte |
| 20:46.25 | FuzzyByte | np |
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| 20:46.49 | NetTerminalGene | oxek: did you upgrade its firmware? is its speed good? |
| 20:47.17 | NetTerminalGene | if you upgrade its firmware how? |
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| 20:47.36 | oxek | NetTerminalGene: was there an upgrade for the PRO version? |
| 20:47.52 | NetTerminalGene | oxek: i don't know |
| 20:48.07 | NetTerminalGene | i am wondering if there is a problem that you should upgrade firmware |
| 20:48.15 | oxek | I did not do a firmware upgrade on this ssd, but for a different samsung one I used the samsung enterprise magician (don't remember exact name) which is available for linux |
| 20:48.21 | oxek | and I did the upgrade from a livecd |
| 20:49.00 | oxek | speed is crappy, but that's my own fault - I use full disk encryption without trim |
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| 20:49.11 | sney | hardware vendors usually only support the latest firmware revision for a given device, so if you need vendor support, it's good to have it upgraded. but in my experience over years using various SSDs in linux, they're always fast regardless of firmware revisions/tweaks/etc and I've never needed to do anything special |
| 20:49.52 | sney | I guess it depends on your standard for "fast" - for me it's not having noticeable i/o lag except with large file transfers/opens |
| 20:50.15 | NetTerminalGene | oxek: i also use FDE. my OCZ SSD write speed is 30 Mb/s. do you think it is because FDE? what is your speed? |
| 20:50.47 | sney | there used to be major concerns with using TRIM etc to make sure you didn't run out of writes but AIUI that stopped being a real problem with the 2nd generation of devices, almost a decade ago |
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| 20:51.02 | oxek | It's definitely FDE, the SSD appears completely full at all times to the drive controller, so speed will always be bad. |
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| 20:53.07 | NetTerminalGene | oxek: what is your write speed? |
| 20:54.59 | oxek | NetTerminalGene: a dd from that drive tells me 170MB/s |
| 20:55.46 | oxek | but you'll find better benchmarks someplace else. My scenario is special - my CPU does not even have AES-NI. |
| 20:55.51 | NetTerminalGene | it is good |
| 20:56.10 | oxek | on paper, it should have 4x the speed |
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| 21:04.39 | NetTerminalGene | oxek: i am telling mine is 30 Mb/s man |
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| 21:33.28 | jelly | dd "from" the drive sounds like read; read perf can be different than write |
| 21:35.22 | FuzzyByte | jelly: Don't make him overwrite it lol |
| 21:35.24 | jelly | oxek, I leave about 15% of the ssd completely unused, it helps a lot on older devices and maybe also on newer; I also do not disable trim with luks |
| 21:35.49 | dvs | oxek, started over? |
| 21:37.07 | jelly | thus my 120GB ocz vertex 3, almost 10 years old, still lives |
| 21:37.22 | flayer | i have one of those as well |
| 21:37.31 | flayer | ^5 |
| 21:38.01 | jelly | (I learned a lesson after I killed an ocz vertex 2 with swapping after 8 months, and they replaced the unit with this one under warranty ;-) |
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| 21:38.39 | flayer | the 2 had some known issues by the time i bought my 3 |
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| 21:39.12 | jelly | lesson isn't "don't swap to ssd", but "have enough RAM" and also "ssd firmware might be smarter now but it still can breathe better if you leave 15-20% of space never, ever, used" |
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| 21:40.17 | jelly | now I swap to RAM if a machine doesn't have enough RAM ;-) |
| 21:42.28 | dvs | which wears out the SSD... ;-P |
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| 22:06.24 | ryouma | there is a bug |
| 22:07.37 | yanmaani | ryouma: ??? |
| 22:07.38 | ryouma | in which my drive does not do trim. i use the whole drive. at some point i might upgrade firmware but have not. or i might ... reset the drive and then partition some percent to not be used? or do i still have to use fstrim occasionally. in any case performance is ok |
| 22:08.07 | ryouma | i know debian's kernel avoids my firmware version or has some solution |
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| 23:00.10 | tomreyn | ryouma: if you were hoping to get assistence with something, you'll need to state what it is exactly, and provide details / context. use a pastebin. |
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