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| 00:02.36 | RoyK | mutante: what§s in that line? |
| 00:02.42 | RoyK | what's |
| 00:03.31 | mutante | RoyK: IncludeOptional /usr/share/modsecurity-crs/owasp-crs.load |
| 00:03.44 | mutante | with a comment above "# Include OWASP ModSecurity CRS rules if installed" |
| 00:03.53 | mutante | just.. this syntax means it is NOT optional |
| 00:04.11 | mutante | httpd docs "will be silently ignored (instead of causing an error) if wildcards are used" ugh |
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| 00:04.27 | mutante | there is no wildcard.. then it's not optional :o |
| 00:04.56 | mutante | and then as well that httpd thinks it's a syntax error when the file is not there as a bonus |
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| 00:06.13 | mutante | i should use reportbug against libapache2-mod-security2 i suppose |
| 00:07.54 | mutante | except if that file does not come from the package, but it seems very much that it does |
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| 00:09.12 | abff | mutante: you can use apt-file to load a database of files provided by packages |
| 00:09.18 | abff | if you're uncertain |
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| 00:12.46 | mutante | abff: good point. done and confirmed. it does |
| 00:15.51 | abff | mutante: well done |
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| 00:30.39 | yuri0x0 | hi I just downloaded the alsa topology conf-1.2.3 package, but I don't know where to install it on my debian 10 system, where should I insert the configuration files? |
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| 00:36.33 | jim | yuri0x0, where did you get it? |
| 00:36.44 | jim | do you have a link to that place? |
| 00:37.08 | jim | is it possible that debian already has it packaged? |
| 00:37.17 | yuri0x0 | ftp://ftp.alsa-project.org/pub/lib/alsa-topology-conf-1.2.3.tar.bz2 |
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| 00:37.32 | yuri0x0 | I'm trying to install this |
| 00:38.56 | abff | yuri0x0: apt show alsa-topology-conf it's already in the repos |
| 00:39.04 | abff | oh shit I am on testing |
| 00:39.07 | abff | nvm me |
| 00:39.07 | mutante | yuri0x0: my guess would be /etc/alsa/conf.d |
| 00:39.19 | mutante | since it's for alsa and that .d dir is for config snippets |
| 00:39.38 | quadrathoch2 | ,v alsa-topology-conf |
| 00:39.39 | judd | Package: alsa-topology-conf on amd64 -- bullseye: 1.2.2-1; sid: 1.2.2-1 |
| 00:39.54 | jim | oh look it is packaged |
| 00:40.01 | abff | in bullsey not buster |
| 00:40.21 | jim | ,checkbackport alsa-topology-conf |
| 00:40.22 | abff | it looks like it's under /usr/share/alsa/topology |
| 00:40.22 | judd | Backporting package alsa-topology-conf in sidâbuster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12). |
| 00:41.06 | quadrathoch2 | debhelper 12 is in buster |
| 00:41.30 | jim | waht's debhelper-compat? |
| 00:41.50 | quadrathoch2 | jim it was renamed to debhelper. it's just to help creating debs ;) |
| 00:41.54 | quadrathoch2 | ,v debhelper |
| 00:41.55 | judd | Package: debhelper on amd64 -- jessie: 9.20150101+deb8u2; jessie-security: 9.20150101+deb8u2; stretch: 10.2.5; stretch-backports: 12.1.1~bpo9+1; buster: 12.1.1; buster-backports: 13.2~bpo10+1; bullseye: 13.2; sid: 13.2 |
| 00:43.34 | jim | what would I do if I wanted to build the package in buster? |
| 00:43.43 | quadrathoch2 | !ssb |
| 00:43.44 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
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| 00:44.22 | jim | I know that part, what about the two different names debhelper and debhelper-compat? |
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| 00:45.00 | quadrathoch2 | dephelper-compat was renamed to debhelper, so you wouldn't need to backport it. or did I misunderstand you? |
| 00:45.07 | yuri0x0 | configure: error: No linkable libatopology was found. |
| 00:45.19 | yuri0x0 | Failed in the install alsa-utils |
| 00:45.20 | jim | judd thinks it's not backportable |
| 00:45.56 | quadrathoch2 | jim, yes, because debhelper-compat is not in buster (because it was renamed to debhelper) |
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| 00:47.03 | jim | do you mean that debhelper in buster was renamed to debhelper-compat in bullseye? |
| 00:47.38 | quadrathoch2 | ahh yes sorry, :/ jim |
| 00:48.10 | jim | so what do I do to fix the problem stated by judd? |
| 00:48.14 | yuri0x0 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:48.27 | yuri0x0 | 8alsactl |
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| 00:48.35 | yuri0x0 | alsactl |
| 00:49.02 | quadrathoch2 | idk jim |
| 00:49.16 | jim | care to help me find out? |
| 00:49.26 | quadrathoch2 | as nobody ever fixed it, even admins, idk if there is a way to fix it (during buster/stable) |
| 00:53.14 | LtL | alsactl in alsa-utils package. in /usr/sbin/alsactl |
| 00:54.06 | LtL | oh nevermind. |
| 00:54.37 | abff | yea little more complicated than that |
| 00:55.15 | jmcnaught | yuri0x0: what are you trying to accomplish with this alsa topology? Are you trying to get sound to work? |
| 00:58.28 | yuri0x0 | I want to install alsa-utils, and when I install alsa utils I get a message saying that the topology is missing |
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| 00:58.53 | yuri0x0 | onfigure: error: No linkable libatopology was found. |
| 00:59.44 | jmcnaught | How are you installing alsa-utils? From the package in Debian, or from a source tarball? |
| 01:00.37 | jim | yuri0x0, I'm trying to figure out, and get help for, making a backport for it work |
| 01:01.28 | quadrathoch2 | jim which package? |
| 01:01.42 | yuri0x0 | source tarball |
| 01:01.50 | yuri0x0 | jmcnaught |
| 01:02.15 | jmcnaught | yuri0x0: why? What is the core issue? Debian already has alsa-utils that you can install with "apt install alsa-utils" |
| 01:02.17 | yuri0x0 | Cool |
| 01:02.26 | abff | ,v alsa-utils |
| 01:02.26 | jim | jmcnaught, alsa-topology-conf |
| 01:02.26 | judd | Package: alsa-utils on amd64 -- jessie: 1.0.28-1; stretch: 1.1.3-1; buster: 1.1.8-2; bullseye: 1.2.2-2; sid: 1.2.2-2 |
| 01:03.06 | yuri0x0 | I want to install the latest version, 1.2.3, my machine has a lower version, which does not have alsactl |
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| 01:04.21 | abff | are you sure it doesn't? I'm pretty sure alsactl lives in sbin, try running it with sudo |
| 01:04.28 | quadrathoch2 | jim, I just compiled alsa-topology-conf, it works flawlessly |
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| 01:06.24 | yuri0x0 | I'm sure, I'm logged in as root |
| 01:06.36 | jmcnaught | yuri0x0: did you become root with "su"? |
| 01:06.43 | abff | okay cool, you do you |
| 01:06.52 | yuri0x0 | Yes |
| 01:07.31 | jmcnaught | yuri0x0: you need to use "su -l" to get a root login with root's environment including PATH. You still have the normal user's PATH, which does not include /usr/sbin which is where alsactl lives. |
| 01:07.49 | abff | alsactl has been around earlier than 1.1.8 |
| 01:08.06 | jmcnaught | !buster su |
| 01:08.06 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). To approximate the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs. See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
| 01:08.07 | abff | there's a changelog for 1.1.7 on the alsa wiki that shows alsactl exists. |
| 01:08.20 | abff | jmcnaught: news to me |
| 01:08.31 | mutante | i was soo motivated to report the bug, but then i got "Unable to connect to Debian BTS (error: "timeout('timed out',)");" while using _reportbug_. so do i reportbug reportbug now :p |
| 01:11.10 | yuri0x0 | Thanky you very much jmcnaught |
| 01:12.07 | jmcnaught | yuri0x0: you're welcome. It helps sometimes to state what the core issue is, it's hard to tell how far down the rabbit hole you are sometimes :) |
| 01:12.16 | yuri0x0 | Do you know how I can make my external microphone work in linux jmcnaught? |
| 01:13.00 | jmcnaught | yuri0x0: is it a USB microphone? In my experience it's plug and play, you can manage devices with pavucontrol. |
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| 01:14.39 | yuri0x0 | I've tried with pavucontrol but it won't, it recognizes the external microphone, but it doesn't capture the sound |
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| 01:16.00 | jmcnaught | yuri0x0: in pavucontrol on the Configuration tab, do you have the profile set correctly? |
| 01:16.31 | yuri0x0 | What do you mean, profile? |
| 01:16.40 | abff | pa works its just a lot of janky shit and jankier bandaids |
| 01:17.41 | jmcnaught | yuri0x0: see how each device has a profile drop-down? https://i.imgur.com/dYNUyvm.png |
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| 01:21.12 | yuri0x0 | A moment |
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| 01:23.12 | yuri0x0 | https://imgur.com/a/gSqHhjS |
| 01:23.35 | yuri0x0 | https://imgur.com/a/N8gCKsq |
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| 01:23.53 | yuri0x0 | I go here and come back |
| 01:25.19 | jmcnaught | yuri0x0: on my pavucontrol it shows microphone activity in the bar below the volume slider, does yours show any activity when you make noise into the microphone? |
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| 01:30.29 | jim | quadrathoch2, as an ssb from sid? |
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| 01:30.51 | quadrathoch2 | yes jim |
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| 01:34.42 | yuri0x0 | Yes, look at the picture, a black bar, but when I use the external microphone, the bar does not increase, but when I use the internal microphone it increases due to the sound |
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| 01:35.47 | jmcnaught | What kind of external microphone is it? |
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| 01:38.58 | yuri0x0 | https://www.amazon.com/BOYA-Omnidirectional-Microphone-Smartphones-Camcorders/dp/B0828JDF3H/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=lapela+boya-m1&qid=1596505126&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyWktUMDI1Q0M3MkNBJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDEzNTMyTFZLVUVPUVBWWUcxJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA4MzkwMTUxMFdCM08zUFdCSldRJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ== |
| 01:39.31 | jim | quadrathoch2, themill (whose bot judd is) let us know judd hasn't learned about versioned provides yet, and that explains the error message from judd above |
| 01:41.08 | quadrathoch2 | ahh thanks, great to know |
| 01:42.00 | jmcnaught | yuri0x0: the microphone works on other devices, and it has a good battery? |
| 01:42.28 | yuri0x0 | Yes it works |
| 01:44.33 | jmcnaught | yuri0x0: I have seen before that an input source works but does not show activity in pavucontrol. What program are you recording with? Have you checked the pavucontrol Recording (Gravando?) tab to make sure that the recording stream is using the correct device (and not the monitor)? |
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| 01:49.04 | jim | yuri0x0, there's a neat trick, you can get the source (debianized) from a later version and try to build it on an earlier version |
| 01:49.52 | jim | I'm trying it now |
| 01:52.42 | jim | yuri0x0, I got a package! |
| 01:52.56 | jmcnaught | jim: I think we've moved beyond that. They were trying to build alsa-utils from source (which needed alsa-topology-conf) because they could not find alsactl, because of "su" and PATH not including /usr/sbin |
| 01:53.20 | jim | oh ok |
| 01:53.55 | jim | so he never needed alsa-topology-conf other than to build that other thing |
| 01:54.04 | jmcnaught | yeah |
| 01:54.34 | jim | so the package's purpose is to support compilation of things |
| 01:54.51 | jmcnaught | Right now it seems like the soundcard works, the internal microphone works, but not when an external microphone is plugged into the jack. |
| 01:55.40 | jim | I don't really have a clue how to fix that |
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| 01:56.40 | genoobie | Hello all, I am looking to install a fairly light (CD sized) debian on my dell dimension 8400 |
| 01:56.45 | jim | does the ext mic work in that case? |
| 01:56.58 | genoobie | where could I find an ISO for this? |
| 01:57.38 | jim | genoobie, use a regular debian netinstall, and don't install as much :) |
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| 02:05.44 | DammitJim | I've done Samba and nfs befoe |
| 02:05.48 | DammitJim | before |
| 02:06.06 | DammitJim | what do you guys recommend is the most reliable and easiest way to allow copying files from one server to another? |
| 02:06.12 | DammitJim | for automated scripts |
| 02:06.33 | sponix | DammitJim: rsync |
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| 02:06.41 | DammitJim | rsync over what? |
| 02:06.49 | sponix | over anything |
| 02:06.56 | DammitJim | remember, I want this to be done automatically |
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| 02:07.08 | DammitJim | ok, rsync over samba? |
| 02:07.21 | sponix | lol |
| 02:07.25 | sponix | read up on rsync |
| 02:07.34 | DammitJim | or you mean rsync itself? |
| 02:07.38 | sponix | yes |
| 02:07.44 | sponix | that is why I said rsync |
| 02:07.45 | quadrathoch2 | DammitJim ssh is probably best ;) |
| 02:08.06 | dvs | DammitJim, rsync only needs a network connection. |
| 02:08.11 | DammitJim | hhhmmmm... I was considering that as well (I already have an rsync server running) |
| 02:08.15 | sponix | quadrathoch2: rsync has features ssh/scp doesn't like "resume" :) |
| 02:08.31 | quadrathoch2 | ahh okay :) |
| 02:08.49 | DammitJim | mind you, this is just to have a cron job copy files from one location to another |
| 02:09.03 | sponix | it can also remove files at the destination if they no longer exist on the host, and LOTS of other cool shit |
| 02:09.33 | DammitJim | yeah, for this project, I'm not necessarily looking for that |
| 02:09.45 | DammitJim | at the end of a script, I just need to copy some generated files to another server |
| 02:10.07 | sponix | I think you will be hard pressed to find something more fitting than rsync |
| 02:10.43 | DammitJim | I though of just having a samba mount to the other server |
| 02:10.55 | dvs | ... |
| 02:10.58 | DammitJim | then just cp <file> /mnt/server/ |
| 02:12.49 | sponix | sure, you _could_ do that |
| 02:13.20 | sponix | scp is an option also if you don't want to mess with all the mounting and so forth |
| 02:13.41 | jim | backup the files then restore from the backup... borg backup is pretty good |
| 02:13.43 | DammitJim | I'm conflicted between ssh keys |
| 02:13.49 | DammitJim | and username/password combinations |
| 02:14.01 | sponix | That is Linux though, there is probably at least a dozen ways to do it |
| 02:14.11 | DammitJim | tru |
| 02:14.40 | sponix | jim: I am just a fan of rsync and scp because they are already there for me when I need them |
| 02:15.07 | jim | sponix, good enough |
| 02:15.09 | DammitJim | tru |
| 02:15.16 | sponix | Duplicity can be used, but hell I think that is just a python wrapper for rsync anyway :) |
| 02:15.23 | DammitJim | btw, I'm not talking about taking backups |
| 02:15.25 | DammitJim | that's next week |
| 02:15.45 | DammitJim | I just need a VM that is doing some work and generates some files to copy the files to another server when it's done |
| 02:16.01 | sponix | Any data of importance copied from one medium to another = backup of a kind |
| 02:16.04 | jim | borg takes a bit of setup |
| 02:16.20 | sponix | jim: hmm, too much work for me then :) |
| 02:17.02 | sponix | rsync -avP ./local sponix@remote:/backup/ |
| 02:17.04 | sponix | done |
| 02:17.46 | sponix | or maybe that was scp... they are so damn close to one another I could care less :) |
| 02:18.11 | DammitJim | I forgot... how do I make rsync not ask me for a password? |
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| 02:19.45 | sponix | DammitJim: if you "google" that.. It is probably a key based auth. Might even use the ssh system |
| 02:20.01 | DammitJim | sponix, I have used a secrets file before |
| 02:20.37 | jim | sponix, well, look into it if you want to... I think it has some great features |
| 02:21.20 | DammitJim | can I supply a password in a script for the rsync client? |
| 02:21.35 | sponix | https://www.techjunkie.com/rsync-without-password/ |
| 02:22.17 | sponix | https://www.thegeekstuff.com/2011/07/rsync-over-ssh-without-password/ |
| 02:22.34 | DammitJim | oh no, but I don't want to do rsync over ssh |
| 02:22.38 | DammitJim | that was my original question |
| 02:24.48 | sponix | RSYNC_PASSWORD to the password you want to use or using the --password-file option. This may be useful when scripting rsync. WARNING: On some systems environment variables are visible to all users. On those systems using --password-file is recommended. |
| 02:25.00 | sponix | DammitJim: "man rsync" does wonderful things also :) |
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| 02:25.19 | sponix | So yes, you can have /etc/rsync_passwd or whatever and use that for scripting |
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| 02:38.22 | DammitJim | thanks... I went with rsync |
| 02:38.27 | DammitJim | simple enough with secrets |
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| 04:01.42 | genoobie | hey all |
| 04:01.53 | genoobie | I just booted debian 10 live xfce |
| 04:02.03 | genoobie | and I want to wipe the HDD with 0's |
| 04:02.07 | genoobie | how would I do this? |
| 04:02.40 | kline | genoobie: dban |
| 04:02.43 | petn-randall | genoobie: `cp /dev/zero /dev/sdX` as root, sdX being the correct drive you checked with `fdisk -l` first. |
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| 04:03.16 | genoobie | petn-randall can I sudo this? |
| 04:03.57 | petn-randall | genoobie: Yes, sudo gives you root permissions. |
| 04:04.54 | genoobie | petn-randall, lastly, petn, looks like the HDD is broken up into sda1,2and 5 |
| 04:05.14 | petn-randall | genoobie: Yes, those are partitions on your disk. |
| 04:05.45 | genoobie | so should I use some other thing to merge them first? |
| 04:06.06 | petn-randall | Err no, if you wipe the disk the partitions are gone, too. |
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| 04:06.33 | genoobie | so do I run that command you listed three times? |
| 04:06.33 | kline | if you're asking these questions, using a tool like dban is probably a safer option |
| 04:06.38 | petn-randall | genoobie: I'd double-check you don't need any data from that disk, this step is irreversible. |
| 04:06.50 | genoobie | yeah, no info required. |
| 04:07.07 | genoobie | kline is dban command line? |
| 04:07.11 | petn-randall | kline: dban won't teach you about disk partitions. |
| 04:07.34 | kline | petn-randall: i have a strong suspicion that genoobie doesnt really care about disk partitions |
| 04:07.44 | petn-randall | dban is a different live distro. |
| 04:07.51 | genoobie | I mean I *kindof* understand them. |
| 04:07.51 | kline | genoobie: its an iso you can boot off a disk/usb stick like a livecd |
| 04:07.59 | kline | and its specialised for wiping hard drives |
| 04:07.59 | genoobie | gotcha. |
| 04:08.10 | genoobie | yeah, but I already have this fancy xfce :) |
| 04:08.15 | kline | https://dban.org/ you can get it here, from the "download" in the top right corner |
| 04:08.35 | genoobie | anyhow, do I have to that "cp" command three times because there are three partitions? |
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| 04:08.55 | kline | (its free/open source, the company also has "Erasure" which is a commericial product for companies that need certifications of destruction etc) |
| 04:09.11 | petn-randall | Does dban boot on current machines? Their last release is 5 years ago. |
| 04:09.12 | genoobie | fdisk -l gives, sda1 as "linux", sda2, "extended", sda5 as "swap / solaris" |
| 04:09.27 | genoobie | so just run the cp command three times... |
| 04:09.38 | petn-randall | genoobie: No, just run it against the disk. |
| 04:09.39 | kline | petn-randall: i believe so yes |
| 04:09.51 | petn-randall | genoobie: In this case it's sda. |
| 04:09.58 | petn-randall | genoobie: You had linux on your PC before? |
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| 04:10.02 | genoobie | oh oh oh...gotcha |
| 04:10.54 | genoobie | cp /dev/zero /dev/sda |
| 04:11.20 | genoobie | there's no indicator bar or nothing...how can I tell if it is working? |
| 04:11.25 | genoobie | 160GB HDD btw |
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| 04:12.11 | genoobie | petn-randall thanks a million for the help btw. |
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| 04:13.10 | petn-randall | genoobie: When the prompt returns. |
| 04:13.22 | petn-randall | Might take an hour or so, depending on the speed of the drive. |
| 04:15.51 | genoobie | 7200 |
| 04:16.00 | genoobie | ugh an hour? |
| 04:17.12 | petn-randall | genoobie: It goes faster if you buy a faster drive ;P |
| 04:17.25 | genoobie | haha...7200 is the Maxx |
| 04:17.38 | genoobie | anyhow, I'm just wiping for resale. |
| 04:17.45 | genoobie | someone bought this P4 tank for $38. |
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| 04:18.09 | genoobie | They wanted me to ship *right away* because their computer broke and they need it for work. |
| 04:18.16 | petn-randall | genoobie: There are 15k rpm HDDs, and SSDs are even faster. |
| 04:18.31 | genoobie | Well...not in a 2005 P4 they're not :) |
| 04:18.49 | petn-randall | Someobody is still buying a P4 as a replacement? |
| 04:18.51 | petn-randall | LOL |
| 04:19.01 | petn-randall | Oh wait, private? |
| 04:19.14 | petn-randall | I thought you meant a company bought it. |
| 04:19.31 | petn-randall | They might be on a tight budget then. |
| 04:21.28 | genoobie | Yeah, true. But I cannot believe I got $38 for it. |
| 04:21.45 | genoobie | I mean, if my kids had any interest, they could soup them up, etc., |
| 04:21.58 | genoobie | but they're bums...I blame the parent(s). |
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| 04:42.39 | kristijonas | https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/10.5.0-live+nonfree/amd64/iso-hybrid/ For debian-live-10.5.0-amd64-kde+nonfree.iso, both Firefox and Chrome blocks from downloading it as dangerous file. |
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| 04:43.09 | sponix | kristijonas: seems legit |
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| 04:44.09 | petn-randall | kristijonas: works fine here. |
| 04:44.17 | kristijonas | but only with KDE, other ISOs - not complained about. |
| 04:45.04 | sponix | kristijonas: if you need that use wget |
| 04:45.20 | ropeiX0e | Does anyone have fix for Firefox Home Highlights does not display bookmarks ? |
| 04:45.45 | sponix | ropeiX0e: I can tell you how to start a completely fresh profile |
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| 04:46.22 | kristijonas | I actually don't know if I need non-free, with my old laptop the standard iso didnt have wifi drivers |
| 04:46.31 | kristijonas | but just got a new laptop |
| 04:46.31 | ropeiX0e | sponix I tried fresh profile already |
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| 04:49.09 | kristijonas | Intel Wireless 8260 (rev 3a), do I actually need non-free since I only have wifi, not cable connection? |
| 04:49.36 | sponix | kristijonas: try both |
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| 04:51.06 | ropeiX0e | sponix can you get bookmarks to show in home highlights on your firefox ? |
| 04:52.07 | sponix | ropeiX0e: I can get bookmarks to show, yes -- but I don't get what you mean by "in home highlights" |
| 04:52.27 | sponix | I always have my home button and bookmarks visible -- pretty sure |
| 04:53.05 | ropeiX0e | url page "about:home" and settings I have set only Web Search, Highlights and Bookmarks checked |
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| 04:53.57 | sponix | ropeiX0e: so you want your bookmarks and home button visible in firefox, and you can't see them right now ? |
| 04:54.40 | ropeiX0e | sponix no no I mean firefox home page is supposed to show my bookmarks with these settings I think, but it is not showing anything. |
| 04:56.21 | sponix | ropeiX0e: put this directly in the URL bar - about:preferences#home |
| 04:56.41 | sponix | ropeiX0e: if you don't have a URL bar, hit "alt+f" and use the menu to turn that back on |
| 04:57.22 | ropeiX0e | sponix yes, on that page I have checked Web Search, Highlights and Bookmarks. But nothing shows |
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| 04:59.40 | sponix | ropeiX0e: well that "highlights" stuff is a collection of your prior web history of surfing. If on a completely new profile, it probably doesn't even have that information to display "yet" |
| 05:00.15 | sponix | ropeiX0e: to go like slashdot.org freebsd.org www.distrowatch.com news.google.com debian.org kernel.org and a few others |
| 05:00.36 | sponix | then start another tab, see if some of those show up there |
| 05:01.03 | ropeiX0e | sponix I understand, but weird I thought it was supposed to show bookmarks too like it has the check box for |
| 05:01.03 | sponix | I often configure my new tabs to just show up as www.google.com and not have that firefox blank rubbish page anyway :P |
| 05:02.27 | ropeiX0e | sponix thx anyways I guess I need to make my own html file for "bookmarks" then |
| 05:03.35 | sponix | ropeiX0e: Oh... Mine will show "bookmarks" there if I have just them selected in highlights -- but only a few (although I have hundreds) |
| 05:03.51 | sponix | I tell it 2 rows, and it only shows 1 row of like 4 or 5 |
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| 05:05.18 | genoobie | petn-randall do you have a sec? |
| 05:05.34 | ropeiX0e | sponix can you check why those specific bookmarks show, I already tried moving folders and setting tags for the bookmarks... |
| 05:05.37 | genoobie | I was running that command and the computer went into a bit of sleep... |
| 05:05.47 | genoobie | now it won't come back from sleep. |
| 05:06.23 | genoobie | any way I can revive it? I think the 'cp' command is still running, but there's no way fror me to know... |
| 05:06.42 | genoobie | the HDD light is on and I think I hear it (it's pretty noisy in here). |
| 05:07.08 | genoobie | or that question is to anyone... |
| 05:07.17 | sponix | ropeiX0e: sorry I can't be of more help. But I have to get some rest now. This might be better addressed in a #firefox or #mozilla channel here on freenode. Pretty sure one of the other will exist |
| 05:07.39 | genoobie | Basically I ran..."cp /dev/zero /dev/sda" and the computer went into "sleep" |
| 05:07.58 | ropeiX0e | sponix okay np |
| 05:08.01 | genoobie | I brought it back once, but when I logged in using "user:live" the screen went black |
| 05:08.17 | genoobie | now I can tell the screen is being lit up |
| 05:08.33 | genoobie | and the HDD light finally went off (about an hour) |
| 05:08.43 | genoobie | is there any way I can check on this machine's status? |
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| 06:30.34 | shreerama | Could not execute auto check for display colors using command /usr/bin/xdpyinfo. Check if the DISPLAY variable is set. .. its actually set to DISPLAY=192.168.0.1:0.0 please help |
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| 06:31.06 | holycow | hi |
| 06:31.47 | holycow | i have configured my .bashrc to not show the full path of where I am curently located. only the logged in user. |
| 06:32.00 | holycow | what is the command that will show me where on the filesystem i am currently located? |
| 06:32.07 | holycow | i could have sworn it was something like which |
| 06:32.42 | genoobie | okay, I'm sorry... |
| 06:32.43 | holycow | googling for the answers leads to synonym how to articles file system management. i cannot find this command for some reason. |
| 06:33.49 | genoobie | I followed the instructions here...https://wiki.debian.org/bcm43xx |
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| 06:33.56 | genoobie | and my wireless still doesn't work. |
| 06:34.18 | genoobie | when I type in iwconfig it says command not found...I suspect this is the problem |
| 06:34.50 | holycow | sudo iwconfig maybe? |
| 06:35.01 | genoobie | nope |
| 06:35.19 | genoobie | why wouldn't wireless tools come with LXDE's Wicd... |
| 06:35.39 | holycow | install the iw package perhaps |
| 06:35.40 | genoobie | wait, nm there they are... |
| 06:36.04 | genoobie | how can I bring up the wlan interface? |
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| 06:36.35 | holycow | try sudo ifup wlanxxx |
| 06:36.43 | genoobie | do I need "supplicant" too? |
| 06:36.57 | holycow | no idea. i only buy supported hardware and everything just works |
| 06:37.11 | genoobie | unknown interface. |
| 06:37.18 | genoobie | wlan0 that is. |
| 06:37.23 | holycow | replace xxx with the wlan number |
| 06:37.44 | genoobie | yeah, sudo ifup wlan0, right? |
| 06:37.55 | holycow | should be, dpeends, check |
| 06:37.56 | genoobie | fwiw the card did work on deb8. |
| 06:38.08 | genoobie | so I know it can work. |
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| 06:38.54 | genoobie | holycow ifup wlan0 = unknown interface. |
| 06:40.08 | ayekat | genoobie: `ip l` will show you the available network interfaces |
| 06:40.33 | genoobie | ayekat thank you! |
| 06:40.44 | genoobie | so how do I turn on (and keep on) wlan0? |
| 06:40.55 | genoobie | it says, "state down" |
| 06:41.03 | genoobie | so is there an graphical way to do this? |
| 06:41.29 | ayekat | you mentioned wicd - are you using that? |
| 06:42.16 | genoobie | ayekat yes |
| 06:42.23 | holycow | i don't know what gui in xfce would be best. wicd-gtk seems to exist |
| 06:42.49 | genoobie | I installed the b43 firmware as per the instructions here....https://wiki.debian.org/bcm43x |
| 06:43.04 | holycow | i usuall just do ifup wireless-interface and then wicd-cli and connect |
| 06:43.30 | genoobie | holycow I thought I read somewhere that ifup is obsolete... |
| 06:43.38 | ayekat | I guess for starters, NetworkManager or WICD is probably the easiest way - otherwise... well, ifupdown (but it takes some config-editing) |
| 06:43.39 | holycow | i think that message just means that you are not connected to a wireless access point |
| 06:44.08 | holycow | genoobie: it is. i am too lazy to learn the new tools. also they suck ass syntaxt wise. |
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| 06:44.30 | genoobie | hrm... |
| 06:44.46 | genoobie | my wicd isn't "seeing" wlan0 (that's what it looks like anyhow) |
| 06:45.00 | holycow | sometimes the wireless cards are actually powered down |
| 06:45.07 | holycow | let me see if i can find the power up command |
| 06:45.11 | ayekat | genoobie: so it's listed in the output of `ip l`, but wicd doesn't see it? |
| 06:45.29 | genoobie | ayekat, yes (so it seems) |
| 06:45.31 | ayekat | genoobie: you could try to bring it up with `ip l set dev wlan0 up` - but it's a bit odd... |
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| 06:45.58 | ayekat | usually network management tools don't care too much about whether something is up or not - they're there for managing exactly that, after all ^^ |
| 06:46.36 | genoobie | didn't change anything |
| 06:46.59 | genoobie | wait! Here we go! |
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| 06:47.33 | genoobie | Thank you! Going to install nvidia next and then done! |
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| 06:48.15 | holycow | genoobie: a couple of more tips |
| 06:48.23 | holycow | sudo iwconfing device name |
| 06:48.31 | holycow | that will give you a bunch of info about the device |
| 06:48.43 | holycow | look for the power management line |
| 06:49.03 | holycow | you can turn that on and off with: sudo iwconfig devicename power on (or off) |
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| 06:49.21 | holycow | sometimes a wireless card will just power it self off, or at least it did for me on debian 9 |
| 06:49.22 | shreerama | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:49.34 | holycow | its a good thing to know to check |
| 06:49.43 | genoobie | thank you holycow |
| 06:49.50 | holycow | sure |
| 06:50.37 | holycow | okay, so, anyone remember the command that will show you where you are in the file system? my terminal is configured not to show that automagically |
| 06:51.16 | ayekat | pwd |
| 06:51.24 | holycow | thats it!!!! |
| 06:51.31 | holycow | damnit. thanks, appreciate that. |
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| 06:52.18 | genoobie | okay, so how do I know if X is using nouveau or nvidia drivers? |
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| 06:53.17 | genoobie | nm, I will follow this...https://linoxide.com/hrdwre/install-nvidia-driver-debian/ |
| 06:53.41 | holycow | lsmod will tell you as well |
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| 06:55.14 | holycow | thanks guys |
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| 07:07.14 | genoobie | ugh, is nvidia-detect gone? |
| 07:07.42 | genoobie | I tried to follow the guides to install and it says, "unable to locate package nvidia-detect" |
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| 07:11.55 | jmcnaught | ,i nvidia-detect |
| 07:11.57 | judd | Package nvidia-detect (non-free/x11, optional) in buster/amd64: NVIDIA GPU detection utility. Version: 418.152.00-1; Size: 203.8k; Installed: 263k; Homepage: https://www.nvidia.com |
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| 07:12.13 | jmcnaught | genoobie: do you have non-free enabled in sources.list? |
| 07:12.23 | genoobie | jmcnaught I do |
| 07:12.51 | jmcnaught | genoobie: did you run "apt update" after changing sources.list? |
| 07:13.12 | genoobie | Oh I see...it's buster/AMD64...I'm i386. |
| 07:14.18 | Ashleee | i386? :) |
| 07:14.22 | Ashleee | what do you have? |
| 07:14.56 | genoobie | A very old machine :) |
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| 07:15.11 | genoobie | I'm actually selling it... |
| 07:15.21 | jmcnaught | If it's old you're probably better off with the open source driver anyways. |
| 07:15.46 | genoobie | jmcnaught not that old :) |
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| 07:16.44 | jmcnaught | What is the GPU? |
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| 07:20.28 | genoobie | geforce 6800 |
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| 07:22.31 | Ashleee | that is old. |
| 07:22.40 | Ashleee | more so if the rest of your machine isn't amd64 compatible |
| 07:23.00 | Ashleee | daym :) |
| 07:23.07 | Ashleee | honestly good luck |
| 07:24.11 | Unit193 | Huh, my 6150 even is amd64. |
| 07:24.13 | genoobie | okay... |
| 07:24.36 | genoobie | following a guide that has me booting in to a TTY environment and has me logging in as root |
| 07:24.41 | genoobie | but I cannot log in as root.. :( |
| 07:25.11 | genoobie | can I log in and execute the command via sudo? |
| 07:25.26 | genoobie | bash NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-390.116.run or some such thing. |
| 07:25.37 | genoobie | I'm a bit confused. |
| 07:26.13 | jmcnaught | x86_64 is not going to run on i386. |
| 07:26.31 | genoobie | no I know, I have the 32bit driver |
| 07:26.31 | towo^work | don't break your system with using that installer |
| 07:27.16 | genoobie | I am following a guide that has me blacklisting nouveau, compiling something, and then reboot. |
| 07:27.26 | genoobie | but I am stuck at the "login as root" part. |
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| 07:29.03 | genoobie | so will running a command via sudo be equivalent to logging in as root? |
| 07:29.17 | Ashleee | yes |
| 07:29.35 | genoobie | okay, tx! |
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| 07:30.14 | jmcnaught | genoobie: do those instructions cover DKMS? Otherwise next kernel update the drivers will stop working and it will boot to a blank screen. |
| 07:30.37 | genoobie | eff... |
| 07:30.55 | genoobie | jmcnaught I'm following along here... |
| 07:31.10 | jmcnaught | I know at some point the nvidia installer gained DKMS support but I don't know which version. |
| 07:31.23 | jmcnaught | Is something wrong with using the default open source driver? |
| 07:32.03 | jelly | is something wrong with debian's packaging of nvidia's driver? |
| 07:32.15 | genoobie | just got better results with the prop... |
| 07:32.23 | genoobie | but, I am confused... |
| 07:32.35 | jelly | ,v nvidia-kernel-dkms |
| 07:32.37 | judd | Package: nvidia-kernel-dkms on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 340.106-1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.132-1; stretch/non-free: 390.138-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 418.74-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 418.152.00-1; buster-backports/non-free: 440.100-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 440.100-2; sid/non-free: 440.100-2; experimental/non-free: 450.57-1 |
| 07:32.48 | ratrace | genoobie: I tried to scroll up to find the original issue, but gave up after a dozen screens, can you tl;dr the problem? |
| 07:33.17 | genoobie | I followed the steps in the guide listed here...https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-install-nvidia-driver-on-debian-10-buster-linux |
| 07:33.38 | genoobie | I went to the nvidia instructions, downloaded the .run file |
| 07:33.42 | jmcnaught | Oh it's just nvidia-detect that's only for amd64. |
| 07:33.51 | ratrace | genoobie: and why didn't you use the packaged driver? |
| 07:34.02 | genoobie | and allegedly blacklisted the nouveau driver |
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| 07:34.18 | genoobie | ratrace I forget there was something that the packaged driver didn't do... |
| 07:34.41 | ratrace | genoobie: well perhaps you should try the packaged driver and see if that works first? |
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| 07:35.00 | ratrace | there's the latest 418, 440 from backports, and there's legacy 390 and 340 if oyu have an older GPU |
| 07:35.25 | genoobie | I'm trying to use 304 |
| 07:35.44 | ratrace | 340 doesn't support your GPU? |
| 07:35.46 | genoobie | but I don't understand where I went wrong...I followed the guide to the tee. |
| 07:35.50 | genoobie | no, 304 does |
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| 07:36.55 | genoobie | The long and short was... |
| 07:37.19 | genoobie | I disabled the nouveau driver and booted into a tty\ |
| 07:37.40 | genoobie | when I ran the nvidia setup it said, "nouveau was still in use". |
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| 07:37.58 | genoobie | now when I try to su, it says authentican failure. |
| 07:38.12 | genoobie | I'm pretty stuck. |
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| 07:38.33 | genoobie | I know I used the nvidia driver in debian 8 |
| 07:39.51 | jelly | you did not disable it enough, then |
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| 07:40.26 | joze | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYWzMvlj2RQ |
| 07:43.31 | genoobie | jelly I guess this guide doesn't work... |
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| 07:46.13 | jelly | joze, that was really in arm context, not graphic card related |
| 07:46.47 | jelly | is the one ruining jokes by explaining them |
| 07:47.06 | joze | totally ruined! |
| 07:48.30 | ratrace | genoobie: time to evaluate nouveau. for such an old card like yours, I think it's gonna do a great job. |
| 07:48.41 | ratrace | *re-evaluate |
| 07:48.49 | genoobie | ratrace, you're probably right.... |
| 07:49.00 | genoobie | why wouldn't the proprietary driver be better? |
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| 07:49.18 | diogenes_ | uses nouveau with great success |
| 07:49.34 | ratrace | proprietary driver contains certain firmware not yet available to nouveau, firmware involving among other things clock unlocking so modern games don't quite work with nouveau |
| 07:49.48 | ratrace | then again modern games aren't gonna quite work on 6800 |
| 07:50.01 | genoobie | okay, but there's a slight bigger problem |
| 07:50.23 | genoobie | I used the command "su" and I was able to get to the # in bash (i.e. root) |
| 07:50.31 | ratrace | !buster su |
| 07:50.31 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). To approximate the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs. See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
| 07:50.53 | genoobie | ratrace nice! |
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| 07:51.22 | genoobie | but it still says authentication failure. |
| 07:51.29 | genoobie | it worked once and now, it doesn't... |
| 07:51.40 | ratrace | you're typing in wrong password? do you have sudo installed? try sudo -i |
| 07:51.49 | genoobie | yes, sudo is installed. |
| 07:52.04 | genoobie | oh! |
| 07:52.07 | genoobie | hrm... |
| 07:52.15 | genoobie | I guess I don't understand some things... |
| 07:52.42 | ratrace | make sure you check or set a new root pass, reconfirm it from another terminal using "su -l" |
| 07:53.09 | genoobie | ratrace...? |
| 07:53.23 | genoobie | so sudo -i worked with the usual password |
| 07:53.35 | ratrace | genoobie: sudo works with your user's password. su requires root's password |
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| 07:53.59 | genoobie | ratrace root password was never set... |
| 07:54.02 | genoobie | I don't think |
| 07:54.16 | genoobie | but I'm pretty sure I got to # by typing su |
| 07:54.23 | ratrace | I'd actually recommend you to set a root password, as sudo can break, and you'll need root in case of system recovery where sometimes sudo isn't available |
| 07:55.08 | ratrace | root not having a (local login) password is really not any significant security improvement, esp if you have sudo, it's actaully none at all |
| 07:55.42 | genoobie | okay. |
| 07:55.49 | genoobie | so one last thing and I'll leave it here... |
| 07:55.57 | genoobie | I was trying to follow this guide... |
| 07:56.15 | genoobie | and this command gave me trouble |
| 07:56.16 | genoobie | cho blacklist nouveau > /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-nvidia-nouveau.conf |
| 07:56.21 | genoobie | that's echo |
| 07:56.41 | genoobie | it said permission denied (even as sudo) |
| 07:57.00 | genoobie | so I got in to and executed the command followed by these two commands |
| 07:57.06 | ratrace | genoobie: you can'd do that with sudo, as sudo elevates to root only for that "echo", but not for > redirection |
| 07:57.21 | genoobie | ratrace okay, gotcha |
| 07:57.26 | genoobie | systemctl set-default multi-user.target |
| 07:57.30 | netvixtra | sudo su |
| 07:57.31 | netvixtra | fix it |
| 07:57.33 | netvixtra | exit |
| 07:57.33 | ratrace | so with sudo you must use a tool like tee. echo "..." | sudo tee somefile.blah ( tee -a for >> ) |
| 07:57.46 | ratrace | dont' sudo su. use `sudo -i` instead |
| 07:58.09 | genoobie | so I did those two commands after and when I rebooted, I noticed graphics were still popping up |
| 07:58.14 | ratrace | genoobie: I think you need to update-initramfs -u for that modprobe.d change |
| 07:58.31 | genoobie | so obviously nouveau wasn't disabled... |
| 07:58.39 | genoobie | oh... would that fix it? |
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| 07:59.27 | ratrace | genoobie: possibly. with plymouth in question nvidia would want drivers initiated from within initramfs, thus you have to blacklist nouveau that early |
| 07:59.55 | genoobie | so after I do the echo command, try the update-initramfs -u |
| 08:00.02 | ratrace | right |
| 08:00.03 | genoobie | then do those two systemctl commands? |
| 08:00.18 | killn9ne | hey guys, is debian fine on newer laptops? Im told that linux has problems with newer laptops, true? |
| 08:00.27 | ratrace | only if you used systemctl to change from multi-user.target to something else |
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| 08:01.03 | diogenes_ | killn9ne, mostly true. |
| 08:01.25 | ratrace | genoobie: maybe you meant graphical.target ? |
| 08:01.41 | killn9ne | that sucks. UHM. what year laptops should I target ? |
| 08:01.56 | killn9ne | or what HW should I stay away from? |
| 08:02.03 | genoobie | brb...trying this... |
| 08:02.04 | ratrace | genoobie: multi-user.target is analogous to "runlevel 3", which is teh "text mode". graphical.target is analogous to 5, ie the graphics mode, xorg. |
| 08:02.06 | rattlebattle79 | killn9ne: there is also non-free ISOs which may make the installation easier with laptop hardware |
| 08:02.33 | diogenes_ | killn9ne, at least 6 months old. |
| 08:02.52 | killn9ne | a usb boot wont work? or external dvd player? |
| 08:03.07 | killn9ne | 6 months isnt that bad. okay |
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| 08:03.44 | diogenes_ | should work with secure boot disabled. |
| 08:04.32 | genoobie | ratrace the splash screen is what seems to be bringing the driver back in even after it's disabled... |
| 08:04.46 | ratrace | if you can disable it at all... I think I've read somewhere about the new gen laptops that are only EFI and some are only secureboot enabled |
| 08:05.26 | ratrace | genoobie: so updating initramfs helped? |
| 08:05.34 | diogenes_ | ratrace, i'd stay away from those. |
| 08:06.15 | killn9ne | do the laptops say if they have EFI in advertisements or am I going to have to look up model numbers? |
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| 08:06.50 | genoobie | ratrace it might, I will see in a sec |
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| 08:07.09 | diogenes_ | killn9ne, every laptop 2013+ has it. |
| 08:07.25 | jelly | killn9ne, if a laptop comes with Windows 10 it has UEFI |
| 08:07.34 | ratrace | genoobie: you can remove "splash" (and "quiet" so you can see early output) from the kernel command line from grub, if you have those even |
| 08:07.57 | diogenes_ | not sure about system76 though. |
| 08:08.25 | genoobie | ratrace, the nvidia installer seems to be working... |
| 08:08.43 | ratrace | diogenes_: they probably do. system76 ^W Ubuntu users would want double boot with Windows. |
| 08:09.19 | killn9ne | purism laptops? |
| 08:10.14 | genoobie | there's an issue, I'm getting an error saying that the path to the modprobe utility reported by /proc/sys/kernel/modprobe, /sbin/modprobe, differs from the path determined by 'nvidia-installer', /usr/sbin/modprobe. Please verify that /sbin/modprobe works correctly and correct the path in /proc/sys/kernel/modprobe if it does not. |
| 08:10.34 | genoobie | so it's getting further... |
| 08:10.43 | diogenes_ | killn9ne, you can directly order what you want your PC to contain inside. |
| 08:10.47 | genoobie | it's building a kernel module at least |
| 08:10.54 | ratrace | genoobie: that's not a problem unless the installer is dumb enough to think it is |
| 08:11.06 | killn9ne | um, how? I want a laptop without secure boot/uefi garbage |
| 08:11.19 | genoobie | ugh...it said, "unable to build the nvidia kernel module |
| 08:11.50 | ratrace | genoobie: do you have all the building prerequisites? apt install build-essential |
| 08:12.08 | genoobie | afaik... |
| 08:12.12 | genoobie | I used this command. |
| 08:12.22 | genoobie | apt -y install linux-headers-$(uname -r) build-essential |
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| 08:13.10 | diogenes_ | killn9ne, https://clevo-computer.com/en/laptops-configurator/?p=1 |
| 08:13.19 | genoobie | I mean this is partially an exercise to learn something too... |
| 08:13.45 | ratrace | genoobie: debugging nvidia's .run file is a bit offtopic here though. |
| 08:13.57 | genoobie | I guess I can see that... |
| 08:14.13 | ratrace | genoobie: oh btw I think I glimpsed in the scrollback something abotu this being a 32-bit system? |
| 08:14.21 | genoobie | yes. |
| 08:14.24 | ratrace | well, isn't the .run file 64-bit only? |
| 08:14.32 | genoobie | it is a 32bit system, no they have one for 32bit |
| 08:14.39 | ratrace | from what I see on nvidia.com, there's only the 64-bit linux driver for 6 series |
| 08:14.43 | genoobie | https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/123708/en-us |
| 08:14.54 | ratrace | oh |
| 08:16.01 | netvixtra | 6 series? is this technical museum? |
| 08:16.28 | genoobie | okay okay...I think I found some other issues...brb |
| 08:16.30 | ratrace | genoobie: does the installer actually fail and stop at that /sbin/modprobe complaint? |
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| 08:17.43 | genoobie | ugh, now it's really borked... |
| 08:18.22 | ratrace | speaking of double boots and gaming..... I'm now a proud owner of a windows 10 *gaming* VM with gpu-passthru'd nvidia and usb peripherals. On Debian Buster. |
| 08:19.28 | ratrace | genoobie: problem with that .run is that it installs into system paths without the package manager oversight. it'll cause mess, it'll require you to remember rebuilding it on kernel updates, and the _real_ question is actaully if older drivers can work with newer kernels even. |
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| 08:20.29 | ratrace | it's usually the other way around, newer kernels requiring nvidia support to catch up, but due to kernel's recent.... GPU condom shenanigans.... it may very well be the case that older drivers require repatching to work with newer kernels. 4.19 in buster is rather in that "too new" category for 2017's 304 driver |
| 08:21.24 | ratrace | *GPL condom (lol) |
| 08:23.38 | genoobie | okay, uncle, I give... |
| 08:24.14 | genoobie | but ratrace I get your point. |
| 08:24.35 | genoobie | how do I get nouveau back and running... |
| 08:24.49 | genoobie | like "unblacklist" it |
| 08:25.45 | ratrace | genoobie: remove that "blacklist" line or the whole file you added into modprobe.d (if the file only contained that), and run `update-initramfs -u` again |
| 08:26.41 | genoobie | I'm thinking I'll just re-install it... |
| 08:26.42 | genoobie | the OS |
| 08:27.47 | genoobie | not sure exactly what I have to remove... |
| 08:27.56 | ratrace | I doubt that's needed. You can use debsums to check the installer didn't overwrite a file belonging to a package, but from what I gather from you, the installer didn't even run |
| 08:28.23 | genoobie | ratrace well it said, both times, failed... |
| 08:28.38 | genoobie | what would I be looking for? |
| 08:28.59 | genoobie | The installer ran, building the module failed. |
| 08:29.19 | genoobie | so 2 things. How do I reverse the blacklist? |
| 08:29.37 | ratrace | I just told you 4 minutes ago :) |
| 08:30.25 | genoobie | okay so basically delete blacklist-nvidia-nouveau.conf |
| 08:30.43 | genoobie | then update-initramfs -u |
| 08:30.47 | genoobie | reboot? |
| 08:31.22 | ratrace | aye |
| 08:31.40 | ratrace | assuming that blacklist-nvidia-nouveau.conf didn't contain any other options that you might need |
| 08:31.57 | genoobie | there are three files in the blacklist... |
| 08:32.17 | genoobie | nvidia-installer-disable-nouveau.conf |
| 08:32.47 | genoobie | and qemu-blacklist.conf |
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| 08:34.46 | ratrace | genoobie: what's in qemu-blacklist.conf ? |
| 08:34.52 | genoobie | something is still funky... |
| 08:35.05 | ratrace | and what's the third file? you said three files, named only two |
| 08:35.20 | genoobie | looks like it's some nvidia thing... |
| 08:35.22 | ratrace | "funky" in what way |
| 08:35.27 | ratrace | genoobie: pastebin please |
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| 08:37.27 | genoobie | sorry for the delay |
| 08:37.50 | genoobie | okay, looks like everything is back to normal / nouveau |
| 08:38.08 | genoobie | ditched the qemu file |
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| 08:59.44 | dosmanak | Hello. I am looking for some CMDB, IPAM tool. I found racktables, which looks quite OK, but seems bit old and heavy. Do you have any recomendation for rack/server/ip documentaction? |
| 08:59.56 | dosmanak | Idealy something with nice API ;-) |
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| 09:03.12 | genoobie | ratrace, I want to thank you and suggest that I owe you a debt of gratitude |
| 09:04.05 | genoobie | I think I was hung up on getting this old driver to try and work with a new OS because I had done it in Debian 8, but you pointed out that the kernel may have undergone some significant changes and it was pointless to try and "revive" this old driver. |
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| 09:04.25 | genoobie | ratrace and it wasn't just you, I think multiple people suggested as much. |
| 09:04.29 | genoobie | anyhow, I thank you again. |
| 09:07.38 | ratrace | genoobie: you're welcome |
| 09:07.40 | ratrace | !next |
| 09:07.40 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
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| 10:00.27 | toogley | i am running debian stable with enabled backports. what would be the debian way to run something like swaywm, given that it is not packaged for debian stable? |
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| 10:00.46 | jelly | ,v swayvm |
| 10:00.47 | judd | No package named 'swayvm' was found in amd64. |
| 10:00.51 | jelly | ,v sway |
| 10:00.52 | judd | Package: sway on amd64 -- bullseye: 1.5-2+b1; sid: 1.5-2+b1 |
| 10:00.59 | jelly | that thing? |
| 10:01.02 | toogley | yes |
| 10:01.06 | jelly | !ssb |
| 10:01.06 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
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| 10:01.27 | jelly | make a local build, following the recipe above |
| 10:02.32 | toogley | !package recompile |
| 10:02.32 | dpkg | 1) Add a <deb-src> line for your current release to your sources.list 2) apt update; apt install build-essential devscripts fakeroot; apt build-dep packagename 3) as any user, apt-get source packagename 4) cd packagename-version/; ask me about <debian/rules>; 5) dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us 6) as root, apt install ../packagename-version.deb. Ask me about <debian/rules>, <nocheck>, <nostrip>, <apt-get source>. |
| 10:03.04 | toogley | jelly thanks, will try that |
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| 10:05.59 | lxsameer | hey folks, is there any way to get rid of the systemd on debian ? |
| 10:06.16 | diogenes_ | lxsameer, ask in #devuan |
| 10:07.24 | lxsameer | diogenes_: cheers |
| 10:07.36 | themill | A different derivative is not needed, just install sysvinit |
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| 10:10.19 | ratrace | is it really that simple? iirc the whole reason for devuan was that it wasn't possible to completely get rid of systemd on Debian |
| 10:10.20 | jelly | still if they want to "get rid of" any and all bits of systemd, including udev and logind and every other component from the systemd project, they might be a client for |
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| 10:11.13 | themill | ratrace: it's to address an allergy to seeing systemd in the output of dpkg -l |
| 10:11.21 | jelly | ratrace, udev is systemd now. So yeah, you can't get rid of it. |
| 10:13.14 | ratrace | unless you use eudev, but I see that's not packaged for Debian so yeah. and iirc there was some issue with dependency to libsystemd0, and elogind |
| 10:13.27 | jelly | if you prioritize using less maintained forks over having some stuff with "systemd" or "logind" present in installed packages list, then devuan is a decent option |
| 10:13.32 | ratrace | (like, the reason this last systemd GR "redux" was called for) |
| 10:14.10 | jelly | if you just want the old pid 1, keep Debian |
| 10:14.28 | ratrace | right, that sound sensible. |
| 10:14.31 | ratrace | sounds* |
| 10:15.23 | jelly | systemd is mature enough now that people have gotten used to its idiosyn crazies, just like they got used to sysvinit's |
| 10:16.33 | jelly | and I trust Debian's maintainers to serve as a buffer against upstream breaking things in even newer and more interesting ways |
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| 10:22.02 | ratrace | actually distros are breaking more things with systemd misconfiguration defaults, than upstream does with new releases. Especially debian with the dual-init support, so things cannot take full advantage of systemd APIs. |
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| 10:26.20 | Fox | ,v zookeeper |
| 10:26.22 | judd | Package: zookeeper on amd64 -- jessie: 3.4.9-3+deb8u1; jessie-security: 3.4.9-3+deb8u2; stretch: 3.4.9-3+deb9u2; stretch-security: 3.4.9-3+deb9u2; buster: 3.4.13-2; bullseye: 3.4.13-5; sid: 3.4.13-5 |
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| 10:27.02 | jelly | ratrace, not breaking existing setups takes priority over new features, in my book |
| 10:28.01 | ratrace | for how long? |
| 10:33.51 | jelly | ratrace, in case of Debian, for a single release. After N+1 is out, weird fixes to make N->N+1 release upgrade work are supposed to be removed when N+2 becomes new testing |
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| 10:35.20 | jelly | ratrace, ideally the distro should migrate your setup automatically during release upgrade. If that does not happen, breakage should at least be documented in N+2 release notes, but ideally intentional breakage should NEVER happen |
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| 11:12.50 | ws2k3 | im trying to install a specific version of a debian package. apt-cache policy clickhouse-server|grep "20.5.3.27" shows me " 20.5.3.27 0" but when i run apt-get install clickhouse-server=20.5.3.27 it does not install it... and i dont understand why. https://paste.ee/p/L6hVP |
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| 11:18.52 | beelzebuzz | ws2k3: did you try dpkg -i packagenamehere with a copy of that deb? the log isn't exactly verbose |
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| 11:19.09 | Guifle | hi, I am constantly getting "Project ERROR: poppler-qt5 development package not found" even though I have installed python3-poppler-qt5, libpoppler-qt5-dev and poppler-utils |
| 11:19.27 | ws2k3 | beelzebuzz: no i did not. cause the deb is provided by the repo |
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| 11:19.43 | Guifle | debian 10 |
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| 11:19.58 | beelzebuzz | i understand but the dpkg output might be different |
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| 11:20.52 | dkas | Hi. I have a mattermost server that runs on debian. It used the - now defunkt - kopano repositories. I was able to upgrade the old installed version that kopano packaged via the recommended way (extract .tgz, delete old files, overwrite files, etc) and it is working flawlessly. But now I face a problem: dpkg --list still shows the old version installed. |
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| 11:21.15 | dkas | Is there a way to remove that entry from dpkg database without actually changing the system? |
| 11:21.36 | beelzebuzz | ws2k3: aptitude might also have more verbose output for why it won't install |
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| 11:22.40 | quadrathoch2 | ,v clickhouse-server |
| 11:22.41 | judd | Package: clickhouse-server on amd64 -- buster: 18.16.1+ds-4; bullseye: 18.16.1+ds-7.1+b1; sid: 18.16.1+ds-7.1+b1 |
| 11:23.04 | ws2k3 | its from a different repo |
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| 11:26.25 | ws2k3 | i just pulled the .deb files and now i have it installed. thx anyway! |
| 11:26.43 | shreerama | m getting cant open display error in oracle user please help |
| 11:26.50 | shreerama | for xclock |
| 11:28.13 | nkuttler | shreerama: erm, what's oracle user? |
| 11:28.49 | nkuttler | shreerama: do you mean, you su to another user and are trying to open gui apps? |
| 11:28.56 | shreerama | yes |
| 11:29.11 | nkuttler | just open the clock as the correct user? |
| 11:29.42 | quadrathoch2 | ws2k3 you would probably want to figure out why you have 8 packages not upgraded, I did it right now on a clean install and it worked fine |
| 11:29.50 | shreerama | i want to make it work in su - oracle |
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| 11:30.18 | nkuttler | shreerama: use gksu |
| 11:30.23 | nkuttler | !tell shreerama about root x |
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| 11:33.00 | shreerama | what permissions should i give to su - oracle so that i would get xclock display |
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| 11:38.56 | jelly | shreerama, none. Migrate xauthority data by copying xauth cookies, then set DISPLAY environment variable from oracle shell |
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| 11:39.33 | jelly | shreerama, for a start, run "xauth list" as the user running X display server to see the cookies |
| 11:40.01 | ratrace | nkuttler: btw, gksu is no more |
| 11:40.26 | jelly | !mit-magic-cookie export |
| 11:40.26 | dpkg | You can export your <mit-magic-cookie> to allow another user to run applications on your display by doing one (but not both) of: 'su user_running_x -c "xauth extract - $DISPLAY" | xauth merge -' or 'export XAUTHORITY=/home/<USER_RUNNING_X>/.Xauthority'. For other approaches, ask me about <root x>. |
| 11:40.46 | jelly | that looks alomost right |
| 11:41.10 | jelly | execpt xauth extract should be run as the user running X server |
| 11:41.53 | shreerama | as root user , $xaut list .. getting one line console ouput |
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| 11:45.05 | shreerama | dpkg now it is not displayin cookie value :( |
| 11:45.05 | dpkg | shreerama: I think you lost me on that one |
| 11:45.33 | shreerama | xauth: file /home/root/.Xauthority does not exist |
| 11:48.02 | nkuttler | ratrace: huh? still packaged |
| 11:48.28 | nkuttler | ah, no, i have stretch sources.. |
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| 11:51.08 | nkuttler | dpkg no, root x is <reply>If you need to run an X application as root (or another user), ask me about <sshx> <mit-magic-cookie> <xauth> or look at kdesudo. Whatever you do, don't use <xhost> or try <running x as root>! |
| 11:51.08 | dpkg | i already had it that way, nkuttler |
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| 11:54.29 | shreerama | dpkg: & jelly: finally working thanx, followed following commands 1.$ xauth list $DISPLAY 2. copy output 3. su - oracle 4. $export DISPLAY=:0 5.$xauth add paste output 6.$xclock => gui visible |
| 11:54.29 | dpkg | shreerama: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request |
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| 12:13.26 | littlebit | hi people, I have a question about setting up an apach2 server where it is supposed to serve site1.example.com and site2.example.com, and I'd want to ask from the os standpoint what to do so that my 2 sites are found in my network |
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| 12:15.42 | ratrace | littlebit: I suppose you need some kind of DNS to make those names resolve to the server's IP |
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| 12:17.27 | littlebit | ratrace: true, so I have to place the records in my dns, but is there another way so that? |
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| 12:19.10 | ratrace | littlebit: depends on what particular problem you want to solve. you can have an authoritative DNS instance that parts of your network query, or for example you can do it "manually" with /etc/hosts on each of your machine, which is less than optimal |
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| 12:23.21 | littlebit | ratrace: i do not want to dependent from a dns server, I modified the /ets/hosts as: 127.0.0.1 site1 site2 site1.example.com site2.example.com |
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| 12:27.21 | RoyK | littlebit: you generally shouldn't have 127.0.0.1 in dns anyway |
| 12:29.20 | ratrace | littlebit: 127.0.0.1 is local IP on a local machine. another machine will have "its own" 127.0.0.1, they're not routable outside of a machine |
| 12:29.35 | ratrace | is *localhost IP on a .... |
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| 12:43.12 | littlebit | it is on 127.0.1.1 |
| 12:45.00 | ratrace | littlebit: 127.0/8 is non-routable outside of a machine |
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| 12:45.44 | ratrace | eh that'd be /16, but you get the point. the 127/8 is non-routable |
| 12:46.04 | RoyK | littlebit: 127.0.0.1 is just "me" or "home" or something. You'll *never* find another machine on the internet that can be reached on 127/8, but all machines have their 127.0.0.1 address along with the ipv6 variant ::1 |
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| 12:46.24 | littlebit | understood |
| 12:46.59 | RoyK | so any machine will be able to ping 127.0.0.1 or ::1, but that's just because they talk to themselves :) |
| 12:47.32 | ratrace | 127.0.0.1 the "crazy" subnet where machines talk to themselves and hear voices! :) |
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| 12:48.19 | RoyK | ratrace: that's an address, though, where 127/8 is the subnet ;) |
| 12:50.32 | ratrace | RoyK: technically, that'sa 127.0.0.1/32 subnet :) |
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| 12:54.14 | MrTrick | Asking a question that I know is a bit "silly"... Is it possible to set up a dir so that writing (appending) to any name of file in that dir *actually* appends to a different file? |
| 12:55.27 | MrTrick | eg if a process tries to write to `logs/sillysubdir/needlesslylong-datestamped-fileN.log` or any other file name in the subdir, the data is appended to `logs/app.log` |
| 12:55.54 | MrTrick | for single file => file, a symlink would do it. For file names not known ahead of time? |
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| 13:01.08 | ratrace | MrTrick: I'm not aware of any such mechanism, short of writing a kernel module that does remapping, perhaps via device-mapper API |
| 13:01.17 | RoyK | ratrace: any teacher on earth will talk to you about the naming of that subnet, though ;) |
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| 13:03.20 | RoyK | MrTrick: I guess a socket should work, with a little program listening to that socket and appending to a file |
| 13:03.21 | ratrace | RoyK: perhaps they should re-read CIDR naming schemes ;) |
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| 13:03.50 | RoyK | why specify a host address if you want to give a network address? |
| 13:04.23 | leafwiz | Hey, my NOPASSWD: ALL seems not to work. - %sudo ALL=(ALL:ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL |
| 13:04.47 | RoyK | leafwiz: I really wouldn't recommend that anyway |
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| 13:05.00 | killn9ne | * sazawal (~sazawal@2409:4043:2205:a2a6:ec49:948d:cadf:d2b9) has joined |
| 13:05.00 | killn9ne | <killn9ne> How do I submit a bug? |
| 13:05.00 | killn9ne | <killn9ne> Firefox REFUSES to delete cookies in i386 versions on Debian/Ubuntu |
| 13:05.04 | jelly | MrTrick, no need for a kernel module, when a custom fuse module might work |
| 13:05.19 | leafwiz | RoyK : You want to use password in the sudo -s? |
| 13:05.23 | ratrace | RoyK: well that's orthogonal to your objection of me calling it a subnet. /32 is a CIDR valid "subnet" ;) |
| 13:05.36 | RoyK | jelly: why not a socket and just a daemon written in a few lines of code? |
| 13:05.53 | dvs | leafwiz, ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL |
| 13:05.55 | RoyK | ratrace: I know it's correct, but it's confusing |
| 13:05.56 | dvs | I think |
| 13:06.02 | jelly | RoyK, "name not known in advance" |
| 13:06.23 | jelly | you need to invent an ad-hoc protocol then |
| 13:06.28 | RoyK | leafwiz: yes |
| 13:06.56 | RoyK | leafwiz: is the user a member of the sudo group? has he or she logged out and in again after gaining membership? |
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| 13:07.14 | leafwiz | RoyK: yes , has loggin in and out |
| 13:07.20 | leafwiz | also rebootet server |
| 13:07.22 | jelly | otoh, messing with what open(), read() and write() do on file paths is pretty much what FUSE was meant for |
| 13:07.55 | leafwiz | I did a usermod -G sudo veniadmin |
| 13:08.00 | jelly | well. open(). Others deal with file descriptors, not paths |
| 13:08.00 | leafwiz | logged in and out |
| 13:08.14 | ratrace | I'm not sure fuse would work, as that fuse module would need to claim the VFS layer ownership of the filesystem below it. ie, not sure a random FUSE module can do that to, say, an ext4 filesystem |
| 13:08.31 | RoyK | leafwiz: if you want to give a particular user sudo-access to do a specific command in a script or somewhere typing a password isn't possible, then specify that command alone, not the whole thing |
| 13:09.37 | ratrace | leafwiz: if I'm not mistaken, if you didn't use -a with that usermod, then -G would list the total supplemental groups, not append to it, ie. you nuked your other default supplemental groups |
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| 13:10.08 | leafwiz | ratrace I thought using a captial G would not nuke the group |
| 13:10.25 | leafwiz | RoyK I want all commands to not have sudo passwords |
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| 13:10.29 | ratrace | leafwiz: capital G is for supplemental groups |
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| 13:11.28 | ratrace | leafwiz: according to the manpage: "if the user is currently a member of a group which is not listed, the user will be removed from the group". hence, -a to append, or -G specifies the absolute list of supplemental group membership |
| 13:12.11 | jelly | ratrace, mount your fuse filesystem somewhere, your code only affects file access under that |
| 13:12.15 | RoyK | leafwiz: btw, there's no need to reboot for such a thing. linux will only need a reboot if kernel or things like glibc are upgraded |
| 13:12.51 | netvixtra | a reboot is the holy grail of tech support |
| 13:13.07 | leafwiz | RoyK sure, but debian runs systemd so you never know when a system runs the systemd |
| 13:13.08 | RoyK | leafwiz: I understand, but what is this ventiadmin user's gonna do? |
| 13:13.09 | ratrace | jelly: yes but my point was, that fuse module would need to know how to deal with the, say, ext4 format in order to manipulate it. ie, it won't hand off to the ext4 module |
| 13:13.25 | leafwiz | Can be all kinds of strange bugs with systemd systems |
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| 13:13.58 | RoyK | leafwiz: heh - systemd is used all over the planet now and it has proven it works |
| 13:14.10 | jelly | ratrace, nah, fuse code is userspace. You can open and read and write files from userspace on your backend the usual way |
| 13:14.17 | ratrace | systemd doesn't interfere with sudo btw.... at least won't until some weird systemd-homed mapping becomes a thing |
| 13:14.51 | ratrace | jelly: I know it is userspace, but what I'm saying is it would have to map all access to the underlaying filesystem, not just some syscalls |
| 13:15.13 | jelly | all access = some syscalls |
| 13:15.22 | leafwiz | RoyK sure. But I have a different experience. So I prefer not to use systemd systems but I kinda had to now |
| 13:15.25 | ratrace | like, if you ran fusermount of a block device with ext4, the kernel won't use ext4, except for some calls that are routed through FUSE |
| 13:15.51 | leafwiz | And I know that systemd should not interfer with sudo, but again systemd make me paranoid. |
| 13:15.52 | ratrace | it's all or nothhing at the VFS layer, afaik, is what I'm saying. the FUSE module would need to handle the entire ext4 on-disk format |
| 13:16.10 | RoyK | ratrace: again, why do it so hard? why not write a wee daemon that listens to a socket and logs somewhere else? |
| 13:16.12 | leafwiz | you never know what new service it has taken over |
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| 13:16.25 | ratrace | RoyK: what socket though? |
| 13:16.56 | ratrace | leafwiz: perhaps you should chalk that up to random systemd hate you've read online and give systemd a chance |
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| 13:18.51 | leafwiz | ratrace I have, and its just a pain to use. It is not kiss. And I wish debian would leave people to option to opt out of systemd. But we have devuan when you do not want to use systemd. But still, all the resouces that goes devuan should rather be spent on debian. If debian would give people the freedom to choose. |
| 13:18.58 | jelly | ratrace, userspace never writes to a _mounted_ ext4 fs directly, it always uses syscalls. FUSE isn't just for filesystem drivers. |
| 13:19.46 | jelly | ratrace, there's already a dozen fuse modules using existing mounted filesystems as backends, and doing 1:1 actions except for certain specific things |
| 13:20.00 | ratrace | jelly: it's literally Filesystems in User SpacE |
| 13:20.11 | RoyK | ratrace: IIRC the question was to allow writes to one file and then redirect all writes there to append to another file, which sounds like a unix socket to me. Just "mknod somesock p" and "cat somesock >> somesock.log" and it'll work |
| 13:20.21 | jelly | ratrace, the backend can be anything you like. |
| 13:20.39 | ratrace | jelly: but I'll admit I could be wrong about FUSE requiring ot handle entire on-disk format, maybe it can delegate to the ext4^W appropriate filesystem module, for low-level access |
| 13:20.47 | ratrace | jelly: then again a device-mapper module would be more feasible |
| 13:21.13 | jelly | ratrace, the backend does not have to be a block device. It can be a memory structure. Or a second mounted filesystem. |
| 13:21.39 | jelly | encfs maps files inside encfs mount to files on a filesystem. |
| 13:21.56 | ratrace | jelly: rigth, it needn't be just block device, but do you know a FUSE module that works atop of mounted filesystems? I'm curious now to look it up how it works |
| 13:22.06 | jelly | ^^ |
| 13:22.14 | ratrace | oh encfs is FUSE? |
| 13:22.20 | jelly | yes |
| 13:22.24 | ratrace | indeed, thanks. |
| 13:22.44 | jelly | there's a dozen or more fuse-based overlay-like fses |
| 13:23.11 | jelly | there's a perl module to write your own quickly |
| 13:23.26 | jelly | well, quickly if you want to ^%@$^ |
| 13:23.37 | ratrace | RoyK: but the problem is, the filename is not known in advance, or else you could just set up a symlink |
| 13:23.46 | ratrace | jelly: heh |
| 13:26.28 | jelly | or a LD_PRELOAD wrapper on open() / openat() |
| 13:27.20 | jelly | if you control the execution enviroment of all the relevant processes |
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| 13:32.07 | RoyK | ratrace: a symlink won't work. Think of "echo something > that-symlink" |
| 13:32.22 | RoyK | ratrace: with a socket, you can s/>/>>/ easily |
| 13:33.00 | ratrace | RoyK: uhm... what are you talking about..... echo something > that-symlink would > into the linked file |
| 13:34.16 | jelly | OP wants to always append, never truncate/overwrite |
| 13:34.42 | ratrace | https://dpaste.org/zUhi |
| 13:35.01 | ratrace | jelly: oh you mean they want to turn > into >> ? I see... |
| 13:35.46 | ratrace | still the problem of not knowing the name in advance remains, unless the name somehow _can_ be known |
| 13:36.11 | RoyK | then the question is - why is the filename uknown? |
| 13:36.31 | RoyK | *unknown* |
| 13:37.21 | leafwiz | ratrace okay, not to be negative, but this is a good example of my issues with systemd. Like now I ran the command: root@veniops-nms01:/var/log/zabbix# systemctl start zabbix-server.service |
| 13:37.22 | leafwiz | some strange issues. |
| 13:38.39 | ratrace | leafwiz: issues like what? and you really have to differentiate issues due to badly written config/service files, from issues with systemd itself (eg bugs or poor design decisions inside systemd) |
| 13:38.51 | ratrace | it's unfair to blame systemd for badly written service files... |
| 13:38.55 | RoyK | leafwiz: "some strange issues" is quite commonly known as "PEBKAC". If you're specific about it, that's another thing |
| 13:39.14 | RoyK | btw, zabbix usually has good logs itself |
| 13:39.30 | RoyK | so it shouldn't be too hard to dig into them to find the source of the problem |
| 13:39.33 | ratrace | it's like saying linux sucks because you ran -G instead of -aG and you nuked your supplementary groups list :) |
| 13:39.45 | leafwiz | ratrace I kinda feel that is an excuse. I think its due to systemd being opposite of kiss , making it easy for people to do mistakes. |
| 13:39.45 | jelly | linux sucks! |
| 13:39.55 | RoyK | MS/DOS FTW! |
| 13:40.01 | ratrace | slaps jelly with an oversized, three day old trout |
| 13:40.06 | jelly | but it sucks less than other stuff thus far |
| 13:40.24 | ratrace | leafwiz: have you looked at the linux kernel recently? think it's KISS? |
| 13:40.32 | ratrace | how about..... xorg. or gnome. or KDE..... |
| 13:41.22 | leafwiz | yeah, all those serices kinda suffer. Gnome 3 was a pain. Xorg is kinda a pain and people try to write something new. More KISS, KDE is also kinda big. |
| 13:41.38 | ratrace | people either want KISS or they want modern features which are, well, far more complex than what unix design of 1980 could've imagined. |
| 13:41.41 | RoyK | ratrace: apropos xorg https://xkcd.com/963/ |
| 13:41.45 | leafwiz | Linux kinda has to be big, but Linus has strict rule not to break user space |
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| 13:41.54 | leafwiz | systemd loves to break userspace |
| 13:42.01 | ratrace | RoyK: heh, pure gold :) |
| 13:42.06 | f8e4 | is there anything i can do on the hw low level to stop falshing screens, eg i switch tabs windows in darkmode somthing blank background in white scars my eyes |
| 13:42.07 | ratrace | leafwiz: that's just bs |
| 13:42.42 | leafwiz | Maybe it has stabelized now, but early on there was allways something new. |
| 13:42.45 | jelly | ratrace: systemd devs make very questionable design decisions, and put very little focus on sysadmin friendliness. Try to find out how to use a custom command line for a service. |
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| 13:43.08 | ratrace | leafwiz: systemd doesn't "love" to do anything like that. and in majority cases, the breakage observed with systemd is because systemd _exposed_ bugs in other parts where for example sysvinit would happily ignore and never complain bout so the user never knew there was a bug |
| 13:43.23 | ratrace | jelly: what do you mean? |
| 13:43.25 | jelly | ratrace, third party documentation has to fix things for them, thank $DEITY for Arch Linux wiki |
| 13:43.37 | jelly | I just gave an example. |
| 13:43.40 | f8e4 | jelly sysd is awesome, they great doc! |
| 13:44.00 | ratrace | jelly: "how to use a custom command line for a service", you mean how to use ExecStart? |
| 13:44.43 | jelly | ratrace, yes. Try it. See how mouch time it takes to figure it out and how many official man pages you need to go through. |
| 13:45.11 | ratrace | meanwhile, third party docs have always been a thing in linux land. for example, I recently got my Windows 10 gaming VG going with gpu passthrou. guess which docs I was forced to refer to :) |
| 13:45.29 | leafwiz | root@ipark-nms01:/home/nmsadmin# mount | wc -l |
| 13:45.40 | ratrace | not the kernel docs on how to use and configure PCI lanes, not the vfio docs, barely even the qemu-kvm docs. I use Arch Wiki :) |
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| 13:46.11 | jelly | ratrace, hint: you're not allowed to edit files in /lib/systemd, and you're not allowed to copy the whole file to /etc/systemd, as that will break on release upgrades |
| 13:46.13 | ratrace | so singling out systemd for a problem that exists everywhere in *nixland, is.... unfair. |
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| 13:46.52 | jelly | it's just one of a dozen shitty choices they've been making. |
| 13:46.52 | ratrace | jelly: wait, that's not strictly systemd limitation, but packaging limitation. systemd doesn't in itself alter units in /lib |
| 13:46.58 | LunaLovegood | I put 'buster' in my sources.list file and did the whole 'apt full-upgrade'. But my kernel is still 3.16, how do I tell it to use a newer kernel? |
| 13:47.11 | leafwiz | Systemd breaks with the fundemental *NIX phillosphy of having many small independent systems. This is what made *nix systems great. |
| 13:47.31 | ratrace | and also it's never said not to copy while files into /etc/systemd/system/ quite the contrary that's teh only way to write oyur own units, where you don't want to use vendor's from /lib |
| 13:47.45 | jelly | leafwiz, that's not really a problem IF it works in a consistent manner |
| 13:48.30 | ratrace | leafwiz: it's also why the philosophy doesn't quite work in 2020. good luck piping text between independent systems |
| 13:48.35 | jelly | LunaLovegood, which OS release did you start with? |
| 13:49.15 | jelly | LunaLovegood, skipping releases is not allowed, there's no warranty if you go, say, from debian 8 (jessie) straight to debian 10 (buster) |
| 13:49.21 | leafwiz | For me its bloat, like all the things I can do on a Debian system I can do on a Devuan system. So for me as a regual user I just see loads of stuff that complicates things. Its the same with the BSD they also implement the KISS thoughs. If you do mount there, you get a small cute list. |
| 13:49.45 | ratrace | leafwiz: it's a matter of preference, but then you don't get to enjoy all the benefits of systemd on a devuan system |
| 13:50.03 | leafwiz | Also you have independant processes for each service. Like NTPd is its own process. |
| 13:50.14 | ratrace | for example the simplicity of chrooting with systemd-nspawn, versus having ot deal with manual mounts of /dev (and submounts!), /sys and /proc, and cleaning that up on exit |
| 13:50.21 | themill | leafwiz: please make sure you don't use the sorting options of ls -- you should pipe it into awk and sort to sort by size or time. Please also ensure you don't use any of the GNU extensions to find for the same reason. |
| 13:50.31 | LunaLovegood | jelly: sources.list had stretch. I don't think it ever had a previous version. |
| 13:50.42 | ratrace | leafwiz: systemd-timesyncd is its own process |
| 13:51.06 | jelly | LunaLovegood, stretch had 4.9 kernel. 3.16 is older than that. |
| 13:51.19 | leafwiz | Why is there a systemd ntp process? Was not the regular ntpd process good enough? why reimpement it with? |
| 13:51.24 | jelly | LunaLovegood, is your system a VM or a container of some sort? |
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| 13:51.39 | leafwiz | I know there are many ntp processes. But yeah. |
| 13:51.40 | LunaLovegood | nope, it's my aunt's intel atom laptop |
| 13:52.01 | themill | leafwiz: ntpd is about the worst example you could pick. ntpd is a codebase that wants replacing. |
| 13:52.01 | leafwiz | For me its just bloat, and I don't understand why. The non systemd systems runs just as good. |
| 13:52.13 | ratrace | leafwiz: because systemd the project (not pid1) wants to be a collection of basic tools to build an OS. very much not unlike, say, FreeBSD that keeps in its own code tree entire ntpd |
| 13:52.14 | jelly | LunaLovegood, what kernels are there right now? ls -ld /boot/vmlinuz* |
| 13:52.46 | jelly | ratrace, why do they NIH instead of using what works |
| 13:52.49 | ratrace | leafwiz: so would you ask, why is FreeBSD maintaining a whole copy of ntpd? why is FreeBSD maintaining a whole copy of (very much outdated) openssl? |
| 13:53.58 | ratrace | jelly: because they control the code and whole integration. systemd-timesyncd for example is not just a NIH of a ntp daemon. it's a dbus enabled service. |
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| 13:54.33 | jelly | ratrace, they could have forked chrony. They could have picked an existing resolver or slimmed down dnsmasq. But no, NIH it is. |
| 13:54.36 | LunaLovegood | just 3.16 |
| 13:54.45 | leafwiz | Sure, and there is openntpd from openbsd I think , so yeah it seems many people want their own ntp server.. :P Its just like the naming conventions of the files in systemd , long paths into strange places, and mount being bloated, and if you accedentily kill systemd process the system dies, and so on |
| 13:54.55 | LunaLovegood | I saw a package called linux-image-amd64, I'll try installing that |
| 13:55.14 | jelly | LunaLovegood, it is possible you did not do the debian 8 -> debian 9 release upgrade properly |
| 13:55.28 | jelly | LunaLovegood, what does "uname -a" say? |
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| 13:55.55 | leafwiz | But the systemd debate is a agree to disagree thing, so people that does not like systemd can use devuan. Its just a shame that we need an own distribution to not run systemd. |
| 13:56.11 | themill | [citation needed] |
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| 13:56.28 | LunaLovegood | It was a few years ago, I might have installed it with a debian 8 usb drive then immediately switched it to stretch and did apt-get update / dist-upgrade and called it a day |
| 13:56.39 | LunaLovegood | don't really remember |
| 13:56.43 | ratrace | leafwiz: as has been discussed here earlier, it's possible to run Debian without systemd in place of PID1 |
| 13:56.44 | LunaLovegood | it seems to work now |
| 13:56.45 | jelly | leafwiz, I've been running debian with sysvinit for a couple years now |
| 13:57.16 | jelly | and gave up, since systemd and debian devs fixed the most horrible bugs in the meantime |
| 13:57.27 | ratrace | leafwiz: devuan is a knee-jerk reaction trying to remove _any_ trace of code that even touched systemd (via libsystemd0 for example) |
| 13:57.35 | jelly | it's good enough and works as well or better than sysvinit did |
| 13:58.00 | jelly | ratrace, it started as that, they also do some good stuff |
| 13:58.20 | ratrace | and let's not forget that various systemd-* daemons, with the exception of journald, aren't even needed in a system where SD is pid1. |
| 13:58.48 | ratrace | I think it's even possible to --configure all those OUT of systemd so you're left with a lean process manager (+journal) |
| 13:59.19 | jelly | LunaLovegood, you might have lots of obsolete packages left over. /msg dpkg obsolete |
| 13:59.31 | ratrace | so all this hate, why systemd-* this or NIH that is pointless. the whole project wants full integration, which any programmer will tell you, is easier when you control the code from scratch, rather than try to shoehorn existing codebases like chrony |
| 14:00.06 | jelly | not all programmers are idiots |
| 14:00.19 | leafwiz | yeah, I feel systemd is kinda like windowsifying linux. to make the system easy for the programmes. And maybe that is how things need to go |
| 14:00.46 | jelly | ratrace, and I don't want an OS that is easy for programmers, I want an OS that is easy for the sysadmin |
| 14:00.48 | leafwiz | But I still get irritated when I see all of the bloat in my systems, its why I get a zen feeling when I run devuan. |
| 14:00.56 | leafwiz | Things there are simple and nice |
| 14:01.01 | ratrace | like xorg? |
| 14:01.17 | jelly | that includes not breaking backward compat |
| 14:01.31 | leafwiz | Sure things can be improved. But I still want to go the oposite way, of decentralizing daemons. |
| 14:01.49 | jelly | leafwiz, you'll have to become a developer for that |
| 14:01.53 | leafwiz | That can be decentralized |
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| 14:02.20 | ratrace | jelly: you do realize that your argument is really against specific integration option? it's very much possible to run only the process manager,pid1 (and journal), and nothing else, and use chrony or whatever else you don't want from systemd |
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| 14:03.16 | jelly | ratrace, I have at least 2-3 different arguments against systemd, and about 4-5 for it. |
| 14:03.29 | leafwiz | Eric S Raymond I think called systemd a clusterf** :P But yeah. |
| 14:03.30 | ratrace | leafwiz: that's the history of linux before systemd. a myriad of decentralized daemons that didn't talk to each other and you had a mess of intercompatibility nightmare |
| 14:03.45 | avu | leafwiz: eric s raymond is also a blubbering idiot |
| 14:03.55 | leafwiz | Sure, but he is one of the pioneers |
| 14:04.05 | leafwiz | He has written many books |
| 14:04.12 | avu | he really isn't |
| 14:04.13 | jelly | leafwiz, yeah no, it's just another project. There will be a different one if someone other that RedHat decides they've had enough |
| 14:04.25 | avu | he is just good at telling people he is |
| 14:04.30 | leafwiz | Like the "art of unix programming" |
| 14:04.41 | ratrace | leafwiz: are you making the "appeal to authority" logical fallacy now? |
| 14:05.10 | leafwiz | Sure, but it is a factor even if its a logical fallacy |
| 14:05.25 | ratrace | no it's not, hence the fallacy |
| 14:06.27 | ratrace | like for example Linus Torvalds recent argument against ZFS, which was a very misinformed argument, he stated factual falsehoods. but people should've what, said oh it's true because Linus the penguin god himself said so? |
| 14:06.29 | leafwiz | I'm not saying its a definitive argument, im just saying A well experienced NIX pioneer truly does not like systemd and that I feel counts for something. But again maybe another pioneer really likes systemd. So again its down to your phillosphy |
| 14:06.57 | avu | calling ESR a "well experienced NIX pioneer" is just a joke |
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| 14:07.22 | avu | so if you pull out the appeal to authority fallacy, at least pick a proper authority (: |
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| 14:07.43 | themill | Let's return to Debian user support, since we've now covered every angle of this yet again. and again. |
| 14:07.51 | ratrace | leafwiz: and speaking of LT, here's the authority: the linux penguin god himself is embracing and loving systemd. |
| 14:08.17 | oxek | What is the proper syntax for the sources.list file if I want to specify both the signed-by and arch options? |
| 14:08.28 | ratrace | themill: I feel it'll continue to be like that for the next 5-10 years :) |
| 14:08.42 | themill | sadly, yes |
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| 14:09.09 | oxek | deb [arch=amd64] [signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/...] ...? |
| 14:09.17 | themill | oxek: in the 822 syntax or the old list syntax? |
| 14:09.35 | oxek | themill: I'm reading the manpage and the distinction is not clear to me |
| 14:10.02 | leafwiz | Okay. yes. Agree to disagree.. :) But it will be like this as you say for the next 5-10 years. But we will have to see. This is what is great about the NIX world that we can fork things and evolution takes over. |
| 14:10.04 | themill | oxek: if you want the old list syntax as you showed, it's one [â¦] with space separated options |
| 14:10.38 | themill | oxek: the examples immediately under the General Format heading show the two approaches |
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| 14:11.01 | oxek | themill: I get it now, thanks! Missed that one. |
| 14:11.04 | themill | Noone uses the 822 syntax yet because it has only been around for a decade. They should. |
| 14:11.22 | oxek | also, I had no idea there was some new 822 syntax |
| 14:11.55 | themill | It's much better for options like you describe |
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| 14:12.00 | oxek | themill: why does debian itself not use it for the default sources.list? |
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| 14:13.04 | themill | Noone has patched the installer to make it do so yet and if the installed changed, someone would scream because it would break their terribly important thingy based on legacy stuff. |
| 14:13.36 | oxek | I've never seen anyone use the deb822 style |
| 14:13.38 | themill | Innovation is terribly bad. We should all still be using old unixen boxes from the 1980s. |
| 14:13.43 | themill | https://xkcd.com/1172/ is relevant. |
| 14:13.46 | annadane | can i see what's causing mate.desktop to appear in /usr/share/xsessions after i've removed mate stuff? |
| 14:13.54 | annadane | or rather, how can i |
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| 14:14.36 | annadane | well i can just dpkg -l mate* |
| 14:14.39 | annadane | think i'll just do that |
| 14:14.41 | themill | mate-session-manager? |
| 14:14.48 | annadane | yeah probablyu |
| 14:14.59 | themill | ,file /usr/share/xsessions/mate.desktop |
| 14:15.03 | judd | Search for /usr/share/xsessions/mate.desktop in buster/amd64: mate-session-manager: usr/share/xsessions/mate.desktop |
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| 14:19.56 | annadane | also if i uninstall mate-polkit... i don't really see much other polkits in dpkg -l, is there one for xfce? |
| 14:20.33 | annadane | oh, never mind |
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| 14:41.55 | Antoine- | Hello, I would like to create an LVM volume (with mirroring). Do I need to format my drives or can I use them as is? They are using ext4 |
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| 14:44.54 | jelly | Antoine-, a LVM logical volume (LV) needs to reside inside a LVM volume group (VG) which consists of at least one LVM physical volume (PV) -- the PV is a previously unused disk or partition |
| 14:45.34 | jelly | if you already have partitions and filesystems and no free space, you'd need to get rid of some of those |
| 14:46.41 | jelly | I'd recommend using whole disks for PV, without partitioning, but then they can't be boot disks. |
| 14:47.01 | Antoine- | jelly: I have two 2 TB drives. One with about 200 GB free, and the other one with about 300 GB free. I bought another 4 TB drive |
| 14:47.16 | Antoine- | It would only be to store data, not my operating system |
| 14:47.57 | jelly | there is no easy in-place conversion process to LVM from normal partitions. |
| 14:48.19 | jelly | if you want to use two 2TB devices for lvm with mirroring, move data off them |
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| 14:49.06 | jelly | if you only want to use a small part of the disk for LVM, you need to create a new partition |
| 14:50.10 | Antoine- | So, could I create a new physical volume of 4 TB with my new disk, assign it to its own volume group and logical volume, move the data from my 2 * 2 TB disks, then create a physical volume for each of them then set up mirroring? |
| 14:50.59 | jelly | yes |
| 14:51.23 | jelly | you probably also need to boot this machine from some disk |
| 14:51.45 | Antoine- | Yes I have another 80 GB disk that I use for the system |
| 14:52.03 | Antoine- | Which I planned to leave outside of the LVM volumes. Is it not a good ideA? |
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| 14:52.23 | jelly | that disk needs to be partitioned, because DOS MBR and UEFI do not understand LVM. (I think grub for uefi understands LVM, but you still need an EFI system partition to make UEFI boot process work) |
| 14:52.47 | jelly | it's fine |
| 14:52.58 | Antoine- | That disk and system already run fine |
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| 14:53.16 | Antoine- | I don't need to change anything to that disk and its partitions, right? |
| 14:53.26 | Antoine- | Oh yes ok, it's fine :) |
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| 15:03.27 | toogley | hey. so i am currently running debian stable with enabled backports. i have successfully installed the package dino-im from unstable using the unstable sources and building the packages manually. |
| 15:04.29 | toogley | for dino-im i only had to install additional packages, which were not currently in use on my debian stable machine. but now that i want to install sway, this is different. |
| 15:04.59 | oxek | ,checkbackport sway |
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| 15:05.00 | judd | Backporting package sway in sidâbuster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 13), libjson-c-dev (>= 0.13), libwlroots-dev (>= 0.11.0). |
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| 15:05.21 | oxek | toogley: not gonna be easy |
| 15:05.43 | toogley | as i am currently running kde with the wayland version, i have already a wayland-server package (don't know the exact package, but something which is installed already and where sway needs a newer version |
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| 15:06.05 | toogley | yes, i have installed from hte build-depends above already debhelper-compat and libjson-c-dev |
| 15:06.20 | toogley | and i think also libwlroots-dev |
| 15:06.32 | toogley | but sway itself needs a newer wayland server package thing |
| 15:06.33 | oxek | verify what you have installed, and what versions |
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| 15:09.50 | oxek | ,depends sway --release bullseye |
| 15:09.51 | judd | Package sway in bullseye/amd64 -- depends: libgl1-mesa-dri, swaybg, libc6 (>= 2.28), libcairo2 (>= 1.10.0), libevdev2 (>= 0.9.1), libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 (>= 2.31.1), libgles2, libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.12.0), libinput10 (>= 1.6.0), libjson-c5 (>= 0.15), libpango-1.0-0 (>= 1.22.0), libpangocairo-1.0-0 (>= 1.22.0), libpcre3, libpixman-1-0 (>= 0.25.2), libsystemd0 (>= 243), libwayland-client0 (>= 1.9.91), libwayland- |
| 15:09.52 | judd | cursor0 (>= 1.0.2), libwayland-server0 (>= 1.14.91), libwlroots6 (>= 0.11.0), libxcb1, libxkbcommon0 (>= 0.7.0). |
| 15:10.00 | oxek | all those versions are satisfiable on buster |
| 15:10.08 | oxek | except for those listed earlier |
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| 15:13.05 | toogley | ../meson.build:98:0: ERROR: Invalid version of dependency, need 'wayland-server' ['>=1.18'] found '1.16.0'. |
| 15:13.17 | toogley | and i wonder what if it is sensible to continue |
| 15:13.58 | jelly | judd, checkbackport sway |
| 15:13.59 | judd | Backporting package sway in sidâbuster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 13), libjson-c-dev (>= 0.13), libwlroots-dev (>= 0.11.0). |
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| 15:14.09 | toogley | like, i've heard you should not mix different stages of debian. and as far as i understand it is okay for small dependency-trees like dino |
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| 15:14.38 | jelly | toogley, it's not okay because it's VERY easy to make a mistake and pull more than you intend |
| 15:14.38 | lovelytingy | hi guys i want to change my bootloader to systemd-booti tried but end result was i was not able to boot. then i repair using live disk and now i'm again with grub. |
| 15:14.50 | toogley | so in essence, i'm not sure if i want to replace wayland-server version 1.16 from stable with the version from unstable |
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| 15:15.26 | toogley | jelly: oh, but now i'm confused, because i only did what you said earlier today |
| 15:16.06 | toogley | like i have only the src line from unstable in my sources.list |
| 15:16.14 | jelly | toogley, that's good. |
| 15:16.46 | jelly | if you made local deb packages you're not really using binary software from a newer branch |
| 15:16.48 | toogley | lovelytingy: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Systemd-boot that might be helpful |
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| 15:17.31 | toogley | jelly: ah, but one difference: i did apt install ./local-package.deb instead of dpkg -i local-package.deb |
| 15:17.49 | oxek | toogley: really odd because depends declares sway only needs server version >= 1.14.91 |
| 15:17.55 | oxek | how are you building it? |
| 15:18.14 | lovelytingy | i followed the instructions carefully but when i install bootctl it create folder loader under /boot/efi but on that site article says it has to be in /boot |
| 15:18.15 | jelly | toogley, that's not a problem either, as long as you keep having deb repo lines for only the release that is installed |
| 15:18.17 | toogley | oxek: this is not from sway, it is from the libwlroots-dev dependency |
| 15:18.39 | oxek | toogley: I understand now. Not gonna be easy then. |
| 15:19.40 | oxek | lovelytingy: what site article? |
| 15:20.05 | jelly | toogley, two ways forward: you can either backport (do the build procedure thing0 libjson-c-dev and libwlroots-dev themselves, or |
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| 15:21.01 | jelly | toogley, ... or edit debian/control in the source tree, and try to lower the versions of those two in the Build-Depends line(s) to versions that are in fact available from buster or buster-backports, and see if things build that way |
| 15:21.12 | lovelytingy | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:22.10 | jelly | toogley, installing the locally backported .deb with apt install ./foo.deb is in fact a bit better than doing it with dpkg -i |
| 15:24.12 | oxek | jelly: why? They both write to the same database |
| 15:24.36 | jelly | dpkg will not satisfy missing deps automatically |
| 15:24.36 | dpkg | wish i knew, jelly |
| 15:26.51 | urthmover | good day folks. I'm interested in starting my systemd unit file when mypackage.deb is installed via apt-get. How do I accomplish the starting part? I'm not finding some clear examples or docs to do this. All help is appreciated |
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| 15:27.51 | wikan | what i need to do to configure sound card? |
| 15:28.29 | wikan | hwinfo --sound gives no results |
| 15:28.37 | wikan | alsamixer has 2 devices |
| 15:28.45 | wikan | pulseaudio mixer cannot connect to server |
| 15:29.29 | wikan | i installed all firmware pkgs |
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| 15:33.29 | jelly | wikan, which desktop/laptop brand and model is this? If you have a desktop and a discrete sound card, which sound card is it? Can you recognize it in "lspci -nn" or "lsusb" output? |
| 15:33.49 | wikan | jelly: it is kiano slimnote |
| 15:33.54 | wikan | 15" |
| 15:33.56 | wikan | probably |
| 15:34.02 | wikan | cant find info about sound |
| 15:34.07 | wikan | but it worked under mint linux |
| 15:34.25 | jelly | if it's a recent model motherboard or laptop, the hardware might not all be supported with debian 10 |
| 15:34.27 | wikan | didn't check what is the driver name |
| 15:34.40 | jelly | wikan, pastebin the outputs of "lspci -nn" and "lsusb" |
| 15:34.41 | jelly | !pate |
| 15:34.44 | jelly | !paste |
| 15:34.44 | wikan | it is maybe 8 yo |
| 15:34.47 | jelly | !paste |
| 15:34.47 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
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| 15:35.04 | jelly | good, that does not count as new or recent :-) |
| 15:35.24 | jelly | !what's my hardware |
| 15:35.24 | dpkg | You can use lspci, lsusb, lsscsi, lspcmcia, lshal, hwinfo, dmidecode, and/or lshw, or even dmesg to find out what kind of hardware your machine might have, or you could crack the lid and look inside ... oooh, shiny! If you install lshw, run "lshw -html > myhardware.html" as root and you'll have a nice HTML summation. See also <myram>, <driver locator>. |
| 15:36.08 | jelly | I have a 2019 laptop model and debian is missing firmware for the sound card. |
| 15:36.27 | wikan | lspci -nn and lsusb dont return sound cards |
| 15:36.41 | jelly | where's the paste url, please |
| 15:36.47 | wikan | ok wait |
| 15:36.54 | wikan | i have to connect via ssh |
| 15:39.05 | jelly | if you can boot Mint again you might be able to see which driver they used |
| 15:39.30 | wikan | i cant |
| 15:39.37 | wikan | preparing paste |
| 15:39.44 | wikan | i can boot live cd |
| 15:40.13 | wikan | i will ;) |
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| 15:42.07 | wikan | 3minutes |
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| 15:45.59 | wikan | jelly -> https://paste.debian.net/hidden/37e59059/ |
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| 15:57.14 | jelly | wikan, looks like an Atom SoC with a bytcr-rt5651 -- see if headphones work, the internet is full of reports for similar machines where speakers do not work but headphones do |
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| 15:57.51 | jelly | https://github.com/plbossart/UCM/issues/13 for example |
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| 15:58.26 | jelly | wikan, I would try what this person reported: https://github.com/plbossart/UCM/issues/13#issuecomment-366533981 |
| 15:58.56 | wikan | yea, but... games dont work. Like KDE games |
| 15:59.00 | jelly | it is quite possible that Mint added those UCM piecese to their distro, but Debian never did |
| 15:59.02 | wikan | because sound |
| 15:59.58 | wikan | no sound at all |
| 16:01.01 | wikan | okiii i will try this option |
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| 16:03.14 | oxek | I'm trying to create a /etc/apt/preferences.d/repo.pref for a repository, where I setup pinning so that it cannot overwrite packages provided by debian |
| 16:03.30 | oxek | this is the repo I am trying to setup https://gitlab.com/paulcarroty/vscodium-deb-rpm-repo |
| 16:04.15 | oxek | it already has a corresponding sources.list line 'deb [ arch=amd64 signed-by=/etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/vscodium.asc ] https://gitlab.com/paulcarroty/vscodium-deb-rpm-repo/raw/repos/debs/ vscodium main' |
| 16:04.45 | oxek | and I don't know how what to enter into the vscodium.pref file to pin it |
| 16:05.04 | oxek | https://wiki.debian.org/DebianRepository/UseThirdParty has some info, but not enough for my usecase |
| 16:05.24 | oxek | this is the line that I am unsure about: Pin: origin deriv.example.net |
| 16:05.32 | oxek | I don't know what to put there instead |
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| 16:06.11 | oxek | using 'Pin: origin gitlab.com' feels wrong |
| 16:06.19 | oxek | and I don't know if I can put the entire URL there instead |
| 16:06.31 | oxek | and in what format |
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| 16:07.04 | oxek | alternatively, I don't know if I can use some other identifier in the 'Pin: ' line |
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| 16:07.35 | wikan | jelly: restarting... |
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| 16:07.49 | oxek | I am reading 'man apt_preferences' but it is quite difficult for me to understand |
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| 16:09.54 | wikan | well this solution is stupid :D |
| 16:10.21 | wikan | sound card doesnt work so i do not need to disable any driver |
| 16:10.28 | wikan | i need enable correct one :) |
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| 16:13.57 | jelly | wikan, you also maybe need those ucm files |
| 16:14.28 | wikan | not working ;) |
| 16:15.45 | wikan | downloadig mint |
| 16:15.52 | wikan | i wil check drivers on live |
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| 16:18.17 | wikan | jelly: when I said "this solution is stupid" i didnt mean to be not fair to you :) |
| 16:18.27 | wikan | jelly: sorry for misunderstanding if any |
| 16:19.22 | jelly | no offense taken |
| 16:19.51 | wikan | :) |
| 16:20.36 | wikan | i think the intell driver may be important |
| 16:20.42 | wikan | because chipset is intell :D |
| 16:20.54 | wikan | will se when boot mint live |
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| 16:30.33 | wikan | what may be a reason if wifi connects very long |
| 16:30.46 | wikan | it takes about 1 minute to receive ip addres |
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| 16:31.00 | wikan | usb wifi device works fine and fast |
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| 16:33.45 | jelly | dpkg, list deleted files |
| 16:33.45 | dpkg | well, list deleted files is to list open file handles for deleted files run as root: lsof -n +L1 |
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| 16:38.37 | wikan | jelly: it is to me? |
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| 16:43.45 | jelly | nope |
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| 17:26.35 | jhutchins | !mint |
| 17:26.35 | dpkg | Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at http://forums.linuxmint.com/ or join #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org for support. Linux Mint is variously based on <Ubuntu> with a "Linux Mint Debian Edition" (LMDE) also available. See also <based on debian>, <mintppc>. |
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| 17:30.07 | Faubourg | is one on freenode also ##linuxmint or so |
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| 17:40.12 | sney | the ## means it's unofficial, but if it's big/useful enough, it might be worth including in the factoid |
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| 17:46.03 | oxek | what Pin priority do I use if I want apt to only use this repo if the package does not exist in debian repo? |
| 17:46.05 | oxek | Pin 100? |
| 17:46.22 | oxek | I don't want this repo to ever overwrite any packages that are in debian repos |
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| 17:50.01 | sney | 100 is the priority used by backports, so that's the kind of behavior you could expect |
| 17:50.54 | sney | there's also APT::Default-Release which will do roughly the same thing, as long as the repos have different codenames |
| 17:51.40 | mutante | if there are 2 repos and a package only exists in one of them.. do you need pinning in the first place? |
| 17:52.48 | sney | nope, just for the packages that exist in both, which was implied by the question |
| 17:53.35 | mutante | well, i read "only use it if the package does not exist in debian repo" |
| 17:53.45 | mutante | ok |
| 17:53.49 | oxek | mutante: a package currently exists in only one of them, but I don't want a 'malicious' repo to suddently add a package for e.g. firefox-esr that would overwrite the firefox-esr provided by debian |
| 17:54.13 | mutante | i see, *nod* |
| 17:54.32 | oxek | sney: where do you see current pinning priorities? I don't have a .pref file for backports |
| 17:54.46 | sney | apt policy |
| 17:54.46 | apt | somebody said policy was available at http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/, the manual that describes how debian packages should and must interact with the debian system. see best practices |
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| 17:55.04 | oxek | sney: awesome, thanks! |
| 17:55.07 | sney | np |
| 17:56.23 | oxek | where's the manpage for apt policy? |
| 17:57.24 | sney | should just be man apt, depending on what you mean |
| 17:57.59 | oxek | There's nothing about 'apt policy' in 'man apt'. I tried 'man apt-get' and a few others but none mention the output of 'apt policy' |
| 17:58.26 | mutante | oxek: man apt-cache ? |
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| 17:58.39 | sney | policy just prints the current configuration and priorities. yeah, could be in -cache |
| 17:58.40 | oxek | mutante: that's the one, thanks |
| 17:59.48 | ca1ek | What do I have to change in the default sshd config so that transfers work as expected? right now the sftp connection drops out every 20 seconds or so, and the speed is at most 70k over a gigabit LAN. |
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| 18:00.25 | ca1ek | It's actually "fast" for the first couple of seconds, like 2MB/s, but then it just craps out |
| 18:00.38 | sney | that sounds like it's more likely to be a tcp problem |
| 18:01.01 | sney | ssh can be set to send more keepalives to keep a connection from dropping, but that should never happen anyway when there's an active transfer |
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| 18:01.42 | ca1ek | I set up more keepalives now, but previously it would restart the transfer every so often and it would keep up a roughly 2mbit speed |
| 18:01.52 | sney | hardware is worth checking too. nic, switch, cable, etc |
| 18:02.02 | ca1ek | now with keepalives, it just downloads for the first 20 seconds, then stops for a minute. |
| 18:02.32 | ca1ek | also, a ssh interactive session doesn't drop out, it works very much fine |
| 18:02.49 | sney | way fewer packets with that, obviously |
| 18:03.10 | ca1ek | I don't see what network issues could happen on a LAN. both computers manage to get through to the WAN at a good speed |
| 18:03.25 | ca1ek | so it should be fine between them as well i guess, but i'm not a networks guy |
| 18:03.53 | ca1ek | I think actually using a proxy could remedy this, if that's the case, lol |
| 18:04.35 | ca1ek | what would be the troubleshooting steps for something like this? like, i should certainly check something on the router |
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| 18:07.09 | sney | take the router out of the equation. plug the machines into each other, give them ips, transfer the file directly. |
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| 18:07.36 | sney | consumer routers are also prone to overheats and memory issues, you might try powering it down for a few minutes and then trying again. |
| 18:08.18 | sney | for more specific network troubleshooting advice, ask in ##networking as it's a little out of #debian's scope |
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| 18:09.11 | ca1ek | alright |
| 18:09.12 | ca1ek | thanks |
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| 18:49.15 | Akuw | hi, i have a loopstats.log, but the strange is all lines has only one column that changes |
| 18:49.20 | Akuw | 9061 622.913 0.000000000 -9.887 0.000000238 0.000000 6 |
| 18:49.41 | Akuw | only second column changes |
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| 18:50.10 | Akuw | it means hour |
| 18:50.17 | Akuw | but the rest are the same |
| 18:51.57 | Akuw | so when i plot there is a straight line |
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| 18:53.18 | Akuw | any idea? |
| 18:53.36 | sney | are you troubleshooting a problem, or just trying to look at a cool graph? |
| 18:53.47 | cbthree | where can i download debian-10.5.0-i386-xfce-CD-1.iso? |
| 18:53.57 | ratrace | Akuw: ... and are you in the correct chan? how is this related to debian... |
| 18:54.20 | quadrathoch2 | cbthree https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/ |
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| 18:54.36 | cbthree | i386! |
| 18:54.41 | sney | quadrathoch2: that's the wrong arch and wrong variety. |
| 18:54.50 | quadrathoch2 | ahh yeah, overlooked |
| 18:54.53 | cbthree | quadrathoch2, i have a 32bit computer |
| 18:55.04 | sney | cbthree: it doesn't look like there's a xfce cd1 for i386, just netinst: http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/release/10.5.0/i386/iso-cd/ |
| 18:55.05 | quadrathoch2 | https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/i386/iso-hybrid/ |
| 18:55.07 | quadrathoch2 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:55.20 | sney | quadrathoch2: again, cd1 is an *installer* not a livecd. |
| 18:55.40 | quadrathoch2 | ahm that's the livecd? |
| 18:55.49 | quadrathoch2 | ahhh lol |
| 18:55.50 | sney | cbthree: you can probably still get the xfce cd1 via jigdo. |
| 18:55.52 | quadrathoch2 | okay sorry :( |
| 18:55.57 | quadrathoch2 | i will just leave |
| 18:56.35 | sney | accuracy > speed |
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| 21:18.07 | padv | msg dpkg guidelines |
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| 21:27.22 | MrTrick | ratrace, RoyK, jelly: thanks for the advice (on doing odd things with appending to files) I'll have to untangle this Gordian knot some other way... |
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| 21:32.22 | ratrace | MrTrick: yeah it's uh..... tricky. :) |
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| 21:50.04 | killn9ne | does anyone here have a 2018 or 2019 laptop running debian just fine? |
| 21:50.34 | sney | !anyone |
| 21:50.34 | dpkg | Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>. |
| 21:50.41 | abrotman | killn9ne: that's extremely vague |
| 21:50.57 | killn9ne | secure boot is the problem and lots of new laptops have it. |
| 21:51.06 | killn9ne | hence the question |
| 21:51.10 | nkuttler | disable it? |
| 21:51.13 | sney | secure boot is supported. what's your real question |
| 21:51.29 | killn9ne | just wondering if I will run into a problem buying a recentish laptop |
| 21:51.34 | sney | https://wiki.debian.org/SecureBoot |
| 21:51.36 | killn9ne | and slapping deb on it |
| 21:51.41 | sney | oh, you're shopping. |
| 21:52.06 | sney | go for business class. thinkpads are generally pretty easy to get working |
| 21:52.20 | killn9ne | yea. dont want to make a dumb purchase |
| 21:52.41 | killn9ne | business class is $1500 minimum |
| 21:52.47 | sney | and funky stuff like touchscreens and convertible tablet screens can be iffy, so if you want a laptop, just get a regular laptop |
| 21:53.00 | abrotman | no, a Thinkpad starts around $700 I think |
| 21:53.04 | jhutchins | killn9ne: Secure boot was intended to prevent end-users from installing alternative OSs instead of Windows. There were enough businesses already running alternatives like Linux or BSD that they were able to convince Intel that it was a bad idea. Intel backed off with the concession of making it possible to disable it. |
| 21:53.39 | jhutchins | killn9ne: The only risk it protects you from is if hostile parties have physical access to the system. |
| 21:53.45 | killn9ne | alright awesome i wasnt informed, the last pc I have is an i386, ive been buying mac since then |
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| 21:53.50 | sney | jhutchins: the windows thing is conspiracy FUD. microsoft got the signing keys first, but we've been able to use MOKs and stuff for years in the non-windows realm. read that debian wiki page please |
| 21:54.12 | jhutchins | sney: No, it's not, I was pretty deep in the industry at the time. |
| 21:54.13 | killn9ne | well its kinda their fault for proposing it |
| 21:54.19 | killn9ne | not everyone makes purchases at the same time |
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| 21:55.16 | killn9ne | alright thanks. I'll probably try to find a decent elitebook |
| 21:55.25 | sney | jhutchins: whatever, "secure boot means your computer can only run windows" hasn't been true for years and it's irresponsible to keep telling new users that |
| 21:55.26 | jhutchins | It is useful these days for preventing employees from bypassing corporate management of their systems, but that wasn't the original target. |
| 21:56.02 | jhutchins | sney: No, it was only ever implemented with the ability to disable/bypass it. |
| 21:56.31 | jhutchins | sney: That's not how it was originally proposed/tested. |
| 21:56.40 | sney | killn9ne: there are also a lot of hardware resellers where you can get a ~1-2 year old off-lease business laptop for a significant discount, depending on your locale |
| 21:57.01 | sney | jhutchins: then why is debian distributing signed kernels if disable/bypass is the only option? what year is it where you are? |
| 21:57.30 | jhutchins | sney: Because it's not the only option any more. |
| 21:57.39 | sney | ARGH. QED. |
| 21:58.40 | jhutchins | sney: The point was the origin of the concept and the minimal advantage it offers ordinary users. |
| 21:58.59 | jhutchins | History matters. |
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| 23:11.58 | incal | hello, what is the biggest MUD today and what client do people use? I only find mudlet in the repos and it says it is graphical, I want text only (hm... maybe it can do that as well) |
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| 23:17.00 | incal | mudlet(1) "There are no command line options. Just run the command mudlet to start the GUI." ... okay, it doesn't. no text only clients? |
| 23:17.45 | incal | ah tintin++ |
| 23:19.07 | jmcnaught | incal: there's a games-mud metapackage that depends on a couple of others |
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| 23:41.43 | incal | you happen to know what the Emacs and Vims are of MUD clients? |
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| 23:42.06 | incal | or the zshs... |
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