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| 00:02.08 | efloid | FWIW I use the download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox repo and find that virtualbox does better at setting up the local bridge than virt-manager |
| 00:03.48 | quadrathoch2 | efloid, what does it better in that context, I mean a local bridge is not magic, just out of curiosity |
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| 00:05.48 | efloid | quadrathoch2: yes, on a home server that has a fixed IP using netplan no issues with bridge. however on a laptop using NetworkManager virt-manager had issue setting up bridge but virtualbox had none |
| 00:06.24 | quadrathoch2 | weird, never had issues efloid :/ |
| 00:06.24 | efloid | quadrathoch2: I can't recall the exact issue(s) because it was some time ago. Now I just use VB mostly for Vagrant stuff |
| 00:06.54 | efloid | will try virt-manager again |
| 00:07.41 | quadrathoch2 | efloid, but especially because of secure boot, i can't use virtualbox ;) so no can do (at least at this pc) |
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| 00:08.31 | efloid | hmm. i never had issues with virtualbox - using the oracle repo above. but i don't use secure boot. |
| 00:09.17 | quadrathoch2 | efloid, secure boot needs every single module signed. and virtualbox doesn't have one. that's why the pc wouldn't boot |
| 00:10.10 | efloid | is glad not to have restrictive security requirements :-> |
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| 00:12.00 | quadrathoch2 | eh, for me, it's just another restricting, so nobody can fiddle around with the PC |
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| 00:16.07 | efloid | yes i can understand many contexts where it would be essential |
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| 00:35.02 | noahmg123 | I have some images I want to all be certain dimensions, for consistency sake. But they aren't, so what I want is for them each to be converted to the desired dimensions, with the original image centered and any extra space being transparent. Is there an easy imagemagick commad to do this? |
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| 01:38.01 | ectospasm | noahmg123: are you trying to script a bunch of images that way? Or is it just a handful of images? |
| 01:38.14 | ectospasm | If it's just a handful, I'd use the gIMP |
| 01:38.58 | ectospasm | If it's a lot of them, I'm curious as to how to do it in imagemagick. There's probably a convert recipe that will do it, but I have no idea how to get what you want. |
| 01:39.14 | RoyK | "convert" in imagemagick is nice |
| 01:39.36 | ectospasm | You could probably add a border of some kind, to bring each image to your desired dimensions. |
| 01:40.36 | ectospasm | Use imagemagick to get the dimensions of the original image, calculate how big it needs to be, add the transparent border to bring up to spec, et voilà ! |
| 01:40.52 | ectospasm | How is left as an exercise for the reader. |
| 01:41.11 | ectospasm | apologizes for going all Catholic on everyone tonight. |
| 01:41.25 | ectospasm | Ooops, wrong channel |
| 01:41.41 | RoyK | lol |
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| 01:44.22 | noahmg123 | ectospasm: I found a command that worked pretty well. |
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| 01:44.43 | ectospasm | noahmg123: care to share the exact incantation? |
| 01:44.51 | noahmg123 | Sure, just a moment |
| 01:46.09 | noahmg123 | I was trying to recreate this image pack I found for country flags (it has them all standard size with transparency filling in the differences in aspect ratios) |
| 01:46.24 | noahmg123 | Whatever they did to make them failed on three of the images. |
| 01:46.35 | noahmg123 | So I decided to remake them myself |
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| 01:48.09 | noahmg123 | The command I ran was `for i in *; do convert -background none -gravity center -resize 96x96 -extent 96x96 $i $i; done` |
| 01:48.26 | noahmg123 | Modified slightly from an answer here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/31713634/how-to-square-an-image-and-pad-with-transparency-from-the-commandline-imagemagi |
| 01:49.09 | noahmg123 | Suprisingly the answer is not the accepted on and the accepted one is widly more complicated |
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| 01:50.30 | noahmg123 | ectospasm: in case you missed it ^ |
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| 01:51.14 | ectospasm | The only thing I'd change is the output argument. If it messes up, you've lost your original image. |
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| 01:52.27 | noahmg123 | Yeah. I made sure to test it on an single image first. |
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| 02:38.07 | gimmel | Hi all, I'm looking at moving my server install that is running on LVM partitions to another drive. Am I best to reduce the source paritions to their minimum and just dd the whole drive? Or am I better creating an lvm layout on the destination and dd'ing each lv ? |
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| 02:57.19 | quadrathoch2 | gimmel, I would suggest you look at rsync, so you don't have to move every single bit (even the unused ones) |
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| 03:17.53 | maxrazer | I went to uninstall Ocenaudio recorder and apt said that after that 46GB! would be freed. What? |
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| 03:27.14 | maxrazer | Does APT use packagfe install size information provided by a third party package? |
| 03:27.35 | maxrazer | For some reason when I go to remove a third party package the reported space that will be freed is massively incorrect by orders of magnitude. |
| 03:27.46 | maxrazer | The package in question is Ocenaudio |
| 03:28.23 | maxrazer | I checked and the true install size is not what is reported to be freed by APT. |
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| 03:32.34 | themill | yes, apt would believe the info in the repository's Packages file for that. What doe "apt-cache show ocenaudio" (or whatever the package name is) show? |
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| 03:34.22 | maxrazer | themill, Installed-Size: 44958574. That matches the 44GB that it says is freed when I remove. |
| 03:34.42 | allan_wind | Hey guys, dumb question, the security update for linux that went out today... I was surprised seeing uname -r showing the new kernel without rebooting, so does kernel updates happen live now/ |
| 03:34.42 | allan_wind | ? |
| 03:35.08 | annadane | kpatch *does* exist (or whatever it's called) but no not by default |
| 03:35.21 | annadane | you should reboot |
| 03:35.33 | maxrazer | I believe the kernel updates do work without rebooting. However, the system may be unstable if you don't reboot after updating the kernel. You should reboot. |
| 03:36.03 | allan_wind | annadane: yeah, I know of kpatch but don't have that installed. |
| 03:36.06 | maxrazer | I've had systems crash when I continued to operate it after a kernel update without rebooting. |
| 03:36.51 | themill | uname -r doesn't indicate whether you have installed the security update btw |
| 03:38.09 | annadane | we should start calling them service pack updates so people actually reboot |
| 03:38.14 | allan_wind | themill: don't they kick the whatever the - number is called? |
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| 03:38.56 | annadane | (remember when reinstalling windows xp meant you had to rerun service pack 2 updates and it would take hours and hours?) |
| 03:38.56 | themill | No, the kernel ABI is only incremented when interfaces change such that you need to recompile external modules |
| 03:39.50 | allan_wind | themill: yeah, not being clear... so I thought I was running 4.19.0-8-amd64 and now running -9 |
| 03:40.01 | themill | that doesn't happen on its own ;) |
| 03:40.35 | themill | what does uname -a say? |
| 03:40.57 | themill | (or uname -rv) |
| 03:44.20 | allan_wind | argh... paste doesn't work in pidgin for some strange reason. I see the -v adds a + string after reboot |
| 03:44.31 | allan_wind | so I was probably already running -9 |
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| 03:45.42 | themill | yes, you should see uname -v go from 4.19.118-2 â 4.19.118-2+deb10u1 while uname -r is unchanged |
| 03:45.46 | allan_wind | exactly |
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| 04:27.42 | allan_wind | (... and the pidin copy&paste issue was that xterm uses primary selection and pidin only seems to use the clipboard selection; fix is the set .Xresources XTerm*selectToClipboard: true) |
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| 05:58.47 | *** topic/#debian is Current Debian release is buster, 10.4 point release /msg dpkg 10.4; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.12 ; 9.12 needs dist-upgrade | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 06:04.46 | aypea[0] | oh ffs. well that's a bug. |
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| 06:07.45 | Agafnd | well i don't know if this is the best place to ask about this but. quiterss quite unexpectedly started segfaulting on startup |
| 06:07.54 | Agafnd | so i installed the dbgsym, ran in it gdb |
| 06:08.13 | Agafnd | and it says "/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/QtCore/qrefcount.h: No such file or directory" |
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| 06:09.16 | Agafnd | well, in full https://paste.debian.net/1151291/ |
| 06:10.08 | Agafnd | i am a bit flummoxed, it has never done this before and i definitely have libqtcore4 installed |
| 06:10.34 | Agafnd | though. hm. that filepath says qt5, doesn't it |
| 06:13.02 | Agafnd | (i have libqt5core5a installed too, though) |
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| 06:37.49 | skyliner_369 | I believe cmake has a "build this for windows" option but I actually don't know what that option is even called... |
| 06:38.05 | skyliner_369 | and google is being unhelpful |
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| 06:53.05 | Merazi_xd | Hello everyone ð |
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| 07:49.15 | murii | hi, I was looking over https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux-libre |
| 07:49.25 | murii | and saw this part: Distributions that compile a free Linux kernel |
| 07:49.28 | murii | and there Debian |
| 07:49.39 | murii | is it true? Does Debian run only open source code? |
| 07:49.57 | murii | no binary blobs or hidden code ? |
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| 07:58.11 | efloid | murii: doesn't that depend on the drivers you use? |
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| 07:59.18 | efloid | e.g. wifi card requiring intel firmware, or nvidia card requiring firmware? |
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| 07:59.56 | efloid | you can not install firmware-linux-nonfree and firmware-misc-nonfree |
| 08:01.10 | nobyk | Wasn't there a repo or package for lenovo firmware/drivers ? |
| 08:01.24 | nobyk | I thought there was but I can't seem to find it |
| 08:01.49 | efloid | for what device? |
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| 08:06.54 | murii | efloid: not every driver has to be closed sourced |
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| 08:07.35 | murii | it seems like you guys don't know the actual answer? |
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| 08:13.10 | hwm4rgs | murii: If you enable the nonfree repos, you can install proprietary software. |
| 08:13.15 | hwm4rgs | They're not enabled by default. |
| 08:13.49 | murii | hwm4rgs: so, I should check source.d |
| 08:14.00 | murii | there I can see it,right? |
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| 08:14.23 | hwm4rgs | There's a package called "vrms" that does exactly what you want, if you don't want to/can't check manually. |
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| 08:15.52 | murii | hwm4rgs: ty |
| 08:16.20 | skyliner_369 | where can I get the latest version of mingw? |
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| 08:19.37 | murii | hwm4rgs: how about the contrib packages? |
| 08:19.40 | murii | what's the deal with them |
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| 08:20.08 | hwm4rgs | contrib packages contain DFSG-compliant software, but have dependencies not in main (possibly packaged for Debian in non-free). |
| 08:20.15 | hwm4rgs | https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList |
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| 08:59.13 | sgo11 | how to debug a key binding does not work? It used to work well, but it suddenly stops working two days ago. |
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| 09:27.11 | emorris | Hi, I'd like to allow a particular user to do poweroff/reboot (e.g. systemctl reboot/systemctl poweroff) without entering password. I've tried the config at http://paste.debian.org/hidden/0f0748a7 in /etc/polkit-1/localauthority/50-local.d/10-admin-policy.pkla, but I get the asked to select an identity, then a password twice - for set-wall-message, and reboot. Is there any way I can avoid this? |
| 09:29.31 | emorris | I'd understand if I needed to add a rule for set-wall-message, but I'm not sure why it's asking for an identity then a password for the reboot target. |
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| 09:35.06 | sgo11 | I found out the key shortcuts don't work on a particular keyboard. This is just weird. The shortcut I am having trouble is Ctrl+Shift+P. I checked "xev" and compared the working keyboard with the not-working keyboard. I don't see any differences on keycode, keysym. It just works in one keyboard, but doesn't work in this one. Why? Btw, Ctrl_R+Shift+P works in non-working keyboard. Only Ctrl_L+Shift+P doesn't |
| 09:35.12 | sgo11 | work. |
| 09:35.16 | RoyK | emorris: it's http://paste.debian.net/hidden/0f0748a7 (not .org). I've never understood used those policies - I'd just use sudo |
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| 09:39.49 | sgo11 | This is just weird. I have tried to assign Ctrl+Shift+O to some app in this keyboard. It works well. What's wrong with this physical keyboard? It doesn't make sense to me know. |
| 09:40.01 | emorris | RoyK, thanks - paste created on a different machine. Yeah, I'm thinking of just using sudo - polkit seems the "proper" approach but is confusing as hell |
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| 09:40.56 | sgo11 | I think I found out why. I can not assign Ctrl+Shift+P in this keyboard. This is just weird. |
| 09:41.04 | sgo11 | I need to talk to the seller. |
| 09:41.37 | RoyK | emorris: possibly, but sudo is simple and works :) |
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| 09:45.07 | n_1-c_k | emorris, what works for me is visudo(8) and add e.g. 'emorris ALL=NOPASSWD: /sbin/poweroff' |
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| 09:49.44 | emorris | n_1-c_k, yeah, that's what I'll probably end up doing |
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| 10:01.23 | skyliner_369 | who all here wants to get rid of the silly media shortcuts on your keyboard to have both super keys again instead of that unused and unusable Fn key? |
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| 10:25.36 | jekkan | Hi all, i'm new to debian, i'm trying to install pcsx2 but i can't find it in the repository and it seems strange.. maybe there is any repository i have to added? something like "community repository"? |
| 10:25.42 | jekkan | I'm on debian bullseye |
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| 10:26.43 | oxek | I messed up my sudoers file. How do I restore it to the default provided by debian? |
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| 10:29.38 | hwm4rgs | oxek: You could always completely remove sudo and install it again. |
| 10:30.03 | jekkan | oxek: maybe you can look for a sudoers file and create new one. For example taking from here https://wiki.debian.org/it/sudo |
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| 10:31.14 | hwm4rgs | jekkan: the pcsx2 package is i386, idk if that might be it |
| 10:31.48 | RoyK | oxek: another tip - use visudo, don't just edit the file. It's stated in the top. Also, install etckeeper so that you can roll back easily if you mess up something |
| 10:31.50 | oxek | hwm4rgs: does that actually remove config files though? |
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| 10:32.02 | RoyK | oxek: with --purge, it does |
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| 10:34.43 | oxek | RoyK: visudo unfortunately does not handle files in /etc/sudoers.d/ |
| 10:35.44 | RoyK | oxek: that's true |
| 10:35.57 | RoyK | oxek: but just use etckeeper |
| 10:36.23 | oxek | I've been meaning to learn git anyway, so I'll add etckeeper to my todo list |
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| 10:43.03 | RoyK | oxek: apt install etckeeper should do ;) |
| 10:44.19 | jekkan | hwm4rgs: oh, yes, i had to add 32 bit architecture i think, now i can see it |
| 10:44.24 | jekkan | hwm4rgs: thans |
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| 10:56.22 | Abrax | this the official chan for debian.org? |
| 10:56.59 | nkuttler | Abrax: no, the official is on oftc |
| 10:57.03 | nkuttler | !oftc |
| 10:57.03 | dpkg | OFTC is the Open and Free Technology Community, a support/collaboration service. They have an IRC network: irc.oftc.net. You may (or may not) be connected to OFTC's network. http://www.oftc.net/ See also <freenode>, <oftc move> and <fact sharing>. |
| 10:57.17 | nkuttler | Abrax: but this one is bigger |
| 10:57.23 | Abrax | oh |
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| 10:57.31 | Abrax | why arent they on freenode |
| 10:57.34 | Abrax | freenode is huge |
| 10:57.39 | Abrax | and why is this a single # then |
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| 11:13.22 | nobyk | efloid: It'd be for laptops |
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| 11:23.33 | nobyk | thinkpad |
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| 11:52.10 | ksk | Abrax: Historical reasons I suppose. As far as I can tell there are far more users in here :) |
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| 12:24.10 | Kalirog | Hi everyone, can someone help me with an installation of a RTSP server with Gstreamer? Everything is running fine but i don't know where to put the lib files. |
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| 12:26.14 | chris_99 | Hi, i'm just wondering, i was trying to install a .deb file doing apt install ./blah.deb, but it seems to manage to install from the internet instead, is there a way to force local installation of a deb file, without using dpkg |
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| 12:27.21 | quadrathoch2 | chris_99, this is the correct way to install a local deb file |
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| 12:28.01 | chris_99 | hmm, i'm getting "Note, selecting 'blah' instead of '/home/pi/blah.deb'" and then it grabs from the internet |
| 12:28.40 | dvs | chris_99, dpkg -i ./blah.deb |
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| 12:29.40 | quadrathoch2 | dvs, well he was asking without using dpkg |
| 12:30.05 | dvs | slaps self |
| 12:30.10 | chris_99 | yeah dpkg does work fine, was just confused how it grabs from the net |
| 12:30.13 | chris_99 | with apt |
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| 12:31.46 | Kalirog | Can someone tell me where i should put new libraries in Debian ? Is there a best practice for that? |
| 12:32.21 | hwm4rgs | What kind of library are you talking about? |
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| 12:32.52 | Kalirog | I don't know if i can post a link here but it the gst RTSP lib for Gstreamer |
| 12:33.13 | hwm4rgs | What language? |
| 12:33.44 | hwm4rgs | If you're going to use it just for your own project, it's pretty neat to just put it inside your project in order to not clutter up the system |
| 12:33.51 | Kalirog | i think it's C. the RTSP plugin is downloaded from github, so all the stuff is in /download for the moment, which is bad |
| 12:34.40 | Kalirog | so i can just make an /etc/rtsp for example and put everything in that? |
| 12:34.57 | hwm4rgs | Of course you can, but /etc/ is typically used for configuration files |
| 12:35.15 | hwm4rgs | Nothing would find it unless told to look there. |
| 12:35.26 | hwm4rgs | So, the question that matters is - what are you going to do with the library |
| 12:36.50 | Kalirog | I'm using these library to compile .c files of Gstreamer, to make an RTSP Stream, theses library are needed |
| 12:37.14 | Kalirog | if this doesn't make sence you can just look up for gst -rtsp server on github, or i could send you a pm for that |
| 12:37.30 | hwm4rgs | Please don't PM me. |
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| 12:38.09 | hwm4rgs | If you just want to compile gstreamer, you can either put them in the system path for libraries and compile as usual, or you can put them wherever you want and tell the compiler to look for them where you put them. |
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| 12:38.50 | hwm4rgs | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12102657/how-to-install-c-library-on-linux-in-particular-sdl-image#:~:text=Typically%2C%20libraries%20live%20in%20%2Flib,to%20compile%20against%20the%20library. |
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| 12:45.30 | Kalirog | Thanks for the link but the thing is that there are many folder, including X86 or x64, can i just put the lib un a folder under /usr/lib then ? |
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| 12:45.45 | Kalirog | Sorry, i'm trying to understand Debian on my own but it takes times |
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| 12:46.52 | dvs | Kalirog, no /usr/lib would be a bad idea. /usr/local/lib would be better. |
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| 12:47.47 | Kalirog | Ok thanks ! Is there any link which discuss about best practices regarding folders in debian? |
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| 12:48.43 | dvs | !lfs |
| 12:48.43 | dpkg | hmm... lfs is large file support (http://web.archive.org/web/20110723152405/http://www.suse.de/~aj/linux_lfs.html), or ask me about <linux from scratch>, or Log-structured File System (NetBSD) |
| 12:48.47 | dvs | oops |
| 12:49.06 | Kalirog | Are you talking about Linux from scratch? |
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| 12:49.39 | dvs | Kalirog, https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/apcs02.en.html |
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| 12:50.42 | ratrace | Kalirog: cat /etc/ld.so.conf/* to see standard ld paths. you can use /usr/local/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ for example |
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| 12:52.14 | Kalirog | Thanks a lot guys, i will look into that |
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| 12:58.07 | ratrace | (because no package will install under /usr/local/ so won't conflict your libs) |
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| 13:08.39 | *** topic/#debian is Current Debian release is buster, 10.4 point release /msg dpkg 10.4; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.12 ; 9.12 needs dist-upgrade | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 13:09.12 | StyXman | to add some sauce to the salad, we're running on LXD containers, and I seem to have slight issues resolving DNS (a non cached domain takes 5-30s) |
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| 13:09.16 | greycat | #debian might not be the best place to debug this, as it's fairly deep in the internals of dbus/systemd/PAM ... maybe #systemd? or submit a bug to them? |
| 13:09.23 | StyXman | but DNS seems to be out of the picture |
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| 13:10.04 | StyXman | so I'm seriously considering removing those references to systemd in PAM, but I want to have an idea of the impact |
| 13:12.16 | StyXman | over #systemd they told me the whole house of cards would come crashing down and burning; over #openssh they told me not much would happen, and I have no idea |
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| 13:46.11 | stockholm | hi, i use the debian installer via serial console to install a kvm virtual host and i gets slow when it tries to detect the network link. it finally fails to download the release file from the mirror. |
| 13:46.49 | stockholm | i wonder how i can switch to the shell window when on the serial console |
| 13:47.21 | stockholm | the top line shows that there are four termianals, and i seem to be connected to the first |
| 13:47.35 | stockholm | i would like to see the log on the 4th |
| 13:47.52 | stockholm | how can i switch there? |
| 13:48.31 | stockholm | i tried to go to #debian-installer but that is an empty chanel. |
| 13:48.50 | greycat | you're on the wrong network |
| 13:48.54 | stockholm | oh |
| 13:48.59 | stockholm | i should go to oftc |
| 13:49.00 | stockholm | lol |
| 13:49.08 | annadane | !tea stockholm |
| 13:49.08 | dpkg | hands stockholm a nice lukewarm glass of mint tea. |
| 13:49.19 | stockholm | gee, thanks |
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| 14:37.38 | expon | has anyone on sid noticed gnome-shell crashing hard and entering an infinite loop spamming logs recently? or just me |
| 14:37.50 | greycat | !debian-next |
| 14:37.50 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 14:37.55 | expon | oh course i forgot that exists |
| 14:37.58 | expon | cheers greycat |
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| 14:38.10 | expon | seems it's invite only atm |
| 14:38.16 | expon | oh, oftc |
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| 15:24.44 | gvth | today at about 11:30 o'clock GMT my laptop just shut down (gracefully). How can I find out what caused this? |
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| 15:42.27 | shellclear | hi, is possible build gnome-terminal with support transparency? |
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| 15:45.13 | gh00p | Anyone have a laptop brand/model recomendation that'll run Linux well? |
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| 15:48.32 | petn-randall | gh00p: Any lenovo laptop, and probably many more. |
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| 15:53.22 | karlpinc | gvth: The logs? |
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| 15:55.00 | blackop | hi |
| 15:55.47 | blackop | when i run "sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade" it returned with some warnings about missing firmwares as in this paste: http://paste.debian.net/plain/1151379 |
| 15:55.57 | blackop | what could be wrong? |
| 15:56.43 | towo` | your system is missing firmware-misc-nonfree? |
| 15:57.00 | blackop | well i installed iw2200 |
| 15:57.03 | blackop | intel wifi |
| 15:57.07 | blackop | non-free |
| 15:57.22 | blackop | i changed sources.list with non-free |
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| 15:57.41 | towo` | firmware-misc-nonfree != iw2200 |
| 15:57.56 | EmleyMoor | But did you add the package "firmware-misc-nonfree"? |
| 15:58.04 | blackop | i dont know |
| 15:58.14 | towo` | check it! |
| 15:58.33 | EmleyMoor | "i dont know" probably means "no". Check and install |
| 15:59.14 | blackop | this is my sources.list: http://paste.debian.net/plain/1151380 |
| 15:59.30 | blackop | i dont know how to check and how to install that |
| 15:59.39 | blackop | i dont know what firmware-misc-nonfree also |
| 15:59.45 | towo` | blackop, what's thej proböem to do a dpkg -l | grep -i firmware? |
| 15:59.56 | blackop | i did intel wireless because after long tries i learned how to do that |
| 16:00.01 | EmleyMoor | Like you would "apache" or any other package |
| 16:00.15 | towo` | apt install firmware-misc-nonfree |
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| 16:00.34 | jmcnaught | blackop: "apt policy firmware-misc-nonfree" is it installed? "apt show firmware-misc-nonfree" what is it? "apt install firmware-misc-nonfree" install it. "man apt" learn more :) |
| 16:00.58 | sney | this looks like a job for |
| 16:01.00 | sney | !refcard |
| 16:01.01 | dpkg | A short reference of Debian commands - quite useful for someone new to Debian - can be found at http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/refcard/refcard.en.pdf and packaged for Debian as debian-refcard. See also <grounding>, <vim refcard>. |
| 16:01.07 | blackop | towo`: http://paste.debian.net/plain/1151381 |
| 16:01.27 | towo` | now you know, what to do |
| 16:01.59 | blackop | ok |
| 16:02.13 | blackop | so it wasnt installed |
| 16:02.14 | EmleyMoor | blackop: those missing firmwares are not for ipw... |
| 16:02.16 | blackop | jmcnaught: installing now |
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| 16:02.32 | blackop | ok so i need to install other nonfree firmwares too |
| 16:02.58 | EmleyMoor | If you've got hardware that will benefit from them they are potentially worth having |
| 16:04.13 | blackop | i dont know what hardware else needs nonfree |
| 16:04.19 | blackop | i thought only intel wifi cards |
| 16:04.50 | EmleyMoor | Intel graphics cards often do... |
| 16:05.35 | EmleyMoor | Fortunately you often get messages about firmware you might need that you appear to be missing, as you've already noticed |
| 16:05.48 | blackop | i see |
| 16:06.20 | blackop | in dmesg i am getting these errors in red: http://paste.debian.net/plain/1151383 |
| 16:06.28 | blackop | what are they and how can fix= |
| 16:06.30 | blackop | ? |
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| 16:07.11 | EmleyMoor | Not sure they're in the least nocuous... |
| 16:07.49 | towo` | blackop, try the kernel frombackports, maybe there the issue in i915 is fixed |
| 16:08.11 | blackop | how to try kernel? |
| 16:08.31 | blackop | what s backport? |
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| 16:08.58 | towo` | blackop, what about learning some debian basics? |
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| 16:09.17 | ska | Anyone know how to get slack to open a link in a firefox-esr tab, instaed of trying to open a new window? |
| 16:09.19 | towo` | https://backports.debian.org/ |
| 16:09.21 | blackop | i learn but linux is something endless |
| 16:09.27 | blackop | everytime new things appearing |
| 16:09.41 | ska | Nobody in the normal #firefox chan seems to know/care. |
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| 16:11.00 | ayekat | ska: doesn't firefox have an option to force windows to be opened in tabs instead? or am I mixing things up |
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| 16:13.02 | ska | I tried about:config options but doesn't seem to work. Its fing annoying. |
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| 16:40.24 | gvth | karlpinc: the output of "dmesg", for example, doesn't shop timestamps |
| 16:40.49 | gvth | karlpinc: *show timestamps |
| 16:40.55 | greycat | It does, just not in human-readable form. |
| 16:41.28 | gvth | greycat: isn't there an '-h' flag like in ls? |
| 16:41.43 | annadane | it's -H |
| 16:41.51 | annadane | "man dmesg" |
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| 16:42.02 | annadane | ah, well, -T |
| 16:42.04 | annadane | sorry |
| 16:42.24 | greycat | hmm... ok, that's a thing, then. I would have to figure out how to make that actually work... and it only appears to human-readable-ify *some* of the timestamps, not the early ones |
| 16:42.38 | greycat | ESC[32m[ +2.837268] ESC[0mESC[33mEXT4-fs (sdc1)ESC[0m: ... |
| 16:42.45 | greycat | ESC[32mESC[1m[Jun 7 13:29] ESC[0mESC[33musb 1-6ESC[0m: USB ... |
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| 16:46.40 | gvth | how do I make dmesg print system details prior the last reboot? |
| 16:46.55 | gvth | -s doesn't seem to work... |
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| 16:50.29 | greycat | dmesg does not know anything before reboot -- it's the kernel's in-memory ring buffer |
| 16:50.47 | greycat | there may be saved files in /var/log/ or you may have enabled the persistent journal in systemd |
| 16:51.07 | greycat | !persistent journal |
| 16:51.08 | dpkg | In Debian releases 8-10, systemd's journal is not persistent by default. To enable a persistent journal, enable Storage=persistent in /etc/systemd/journald.conf. Persistence will be the default in Debian 11 Bullseye. |
| 16:51.30 | jmcnaught | gvth: did you look in /var/log/syslog? |
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| 16:52.40 | gvth | jmcnaught: /var/log/syslog also begins at current boot |
| 16:52.58 | greycat | there's /var/log/kern.log* |
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| 16:53.25 | gvth | greycat: I am trying to find out what caused the last (graceful) shutdown of my system that happened at noon today... |
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| 16:53.42 | greycat | all of the stuff I said applies |
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| 16:54.30 | gvth | /var/log/kern.log contains two lines which are pretty recent |
| 16:55.19 | gvth | <PROTECTED> |
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| 16:56.09 | jmcnaught | gvth: logs get rotated. Do "ls /var/log" to see the name patterns. Look at /var/log/syslog.1 or /var/log/kern.log.1 if your logs have been rotated. |
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| 16:56.32 | shtrb | Does anyone have an idea , how I can fix the mic status reverse ? my headset has a feature when the mic is working there is a nice red led activated , and when the mic is not recording the led goes off, however in plasma when I click on mic mute the led gets activated and only when I actually using the mic the led goes off. |
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| 16:57.01 | gvth | jmcnaught: thanks, this helped |
| 16:57.56 | gvth | are the timestamps the time set in my BIOS which is GMT or is it the timezone I set up? |
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| 16:59.38 | annadane | probably the one you set up |
| 16:59.52 | annadane | you can easily cross reference that |
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| 17:03.04 | gvth | I just found out that the last graceful shutdown that occured at noon today was due to a critical temperature that was reached. I was actually doing a resource intensive job with ffmpeg. How do I avoid that in the future? Underclock my CPU? |
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| 17:04.43 | jmcnaught | gvth: if you think you're going to be checking logs a lot I also recommend making journald persistent as shown above. Then you can view logs for specific times with commands like 'journalctl --since="2020-06-10 11:30:00 UTC"' or 'journalctl --boot=-1 --pager-end" to see the end of the previous boot's log. |
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| 17:05.17 | jmcnaught | gvth: for the overheating checkout thermald |
| 17:05.21 | annadane | it's actually sort of nice persistent journald isn't the default |
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| 17:05.51 | shtrb | gvth, tlp |
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| 17:06.44 | shtrb | and thermald will allow you to thermal throtel automatically |
| 17:07.41 | gvth | does thermald work with my first generation i5 CPU? |
| 17:07.56 | shtrb | I do not know |
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| 17:09.00 | jmcnaught | gvth: if you can, you might want to reapply thermal paste on the CPU as well |
| 17:09.20 | shtrb | and clean the cooling fins ! |
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| 17:10.09 | gvth | jmcnaught: I think I can't get to my laptop's CPU physically |
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| 17:10.35 | shtrb | gvth, can you at least extract the dirt/dust from the cooling fins ? |
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| 17:11.25 | gvth | shtrb: I don't see dust or whatsoever on the cooling find |
| 17:11.31 | gvth | *fins |
| 17:12.35 | gvth | should I anyhow clean it with a vacuum cleaner? |
| 17:12.43 | jmcnaught | gvth: the sensors command from lm-sensors can tell you the CPU's temperature then thermald should be able to read it too, and then it can do things like change the CPU frequency governor from ondemand to powersave until the temperature decreases again. |
| 17:13.40 | shtrb | gvth, you shouldn't use vacuum cleaner or anything like that on a laptop that you can not open to clean (you can do more harm than good) |
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| 17:18.18 | gvth | Thanks to all who helped me. I will now check out all these tools. |
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| 18:12.29 | wikan | not sure if #debian but I wonder why most ttf fonts look not ugly but broken in terminal. Am i doing something wrong? |
| 18:13.04 | ratrace | "broken"? |
| 18:13.30 | greycat | Terminals typically use special fonts that were designed for use in terminals. |
| 18:13.38 | wikan | I am checking fonts on mate-terminal and some are cut in half of height, some have letters mixed together, some have letters moved left or right what looks weird |
| 18:14.16 | wikan | maybe 10% of fonts looks ok - and I am not say ok because I like those fonts, but rendering is ok |
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| 18:15.16 | wikan | greycat: well I am trying lcd fonts. So all those fonts shoukd me monospace type |
| 18:16.21 | wikan | sometimes letters render like css margin-left -4px or css padding-top -4px :| |
| 18:16.51 | wikan | everthing work fine in libreoffice |
| 18:19.08 | wikan | ok, wrong. Broken fonts in terminal does not show in Libreoffice at all. Interesting... |
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| 18:23.56 | wikan | how to check font name if I have to use this format -> *-Hack-*-*-*-8-* ? |
| 18:24.43 | greycat | xlsfonts | grep -- -Hack- # ? |
| 18:24.51 | greycat | I don't have any such font, though. |
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| 18:29.18 | wikan | dont get it |
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| 18:29.30 | wikan | there is no Hack but Hack works fine with xterm :| |
| 18:29.47 | wikan | there is many many fonts I see first time |
| 18:30.03 | wikan | I didn't even knew I have them installed |
| 18:30.45 | greycat | Lots of font packages, including the traditional ones like xfonts-100dpi. |
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| 18:31.56 | hyiltiz | #flood |
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| 18:40.17 | ratrace | I never had to fiddle with fonts using that format. these days it's all fontconfig and ttf things |
| 18:40.52 | wikan | xterm requires this format when you need to setup font |
| 18:41.01 | wikan | xterm may look really great |
| 18:41.10 | greycat | Not in my experience. I've always just used "-font 7x13" or whatever. |
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| 18:41.26 | ratrace | and I use urxvt under i3-wm, which uses xft for font rendering so it's again a different way to specify it. DejaVu and Liberation work just fine for me, UTF-8 friendly with all the diacritics I need |
| 18:42.03 | ratrace | last time I used xterm was... I think it was last century even :) |
| 18:42.40 | greycat | "xterm -font 12x24 &" works and gives me a very large window but I also get a warning message. *shrug* |
| 18:42.41 | wikan | mee to but I decided to check if xterm may look good and I am supriced |
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| 18:43.02 | wikan | it looks the same as gnome-terminal |
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| 18:43.16 | wikan | nice antialiased fonts, 256 colors |
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| 18:43.26 | ratrace | speaking of, some nice font drama is coming up with next iteration of debian, due to pango dropping freetype metrics in favor of harfbuzz |
| 18:44.01 | dvs | !harfbuzz |
| 18:44.15 | wikan | I don't know what freetype is :| it is ttf lib? |
| 18:44.22 | greycat | My criteria are (1) can I read it, (2) can I distinguish all pairs of characters, like ( { and 0 O |
| 18:44.23 | dvs | yes |
| 18:44.53 | wikan | exactly greycat - and most fonts are awful |
| 18:45.20 | wikan | xterm probably doesnt use pango so it is time to move to pango :D |
| 18:45.23 | wikan | back |
| 18:45.28 | wikan | move to xterm |
| 18:45.32 | ratrace | dvs: libharfbuzz |
| 18:46.02 | wikan | terminal fonts make me crazy :D |
| 18:46.04 | dvs | ratrace, is truetype still not free? |
| 18:46.21 | ratrace | there are some patents iirc |
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| 18:46.44 | dvs | I thought the patents would expire by now. |
| 18:47.39 | wikan | I love how it looks https://www.androidpolice.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/nexusae0_l_lcd.jpg |
| 18:47.47 | ratrace | dvs: indeed... https://www.freetype.org/patents.html |
| 18:48.15 | wikan | i would love to use this kind of font but... must be readable |
| 18:48.30 | wikan | impossible :D |
| 18:49.31 | wikan | i got idea to do my own font. But I gave up after I tried 3 apps |
| 18:50.34 | wikan | great example how to write not user friendly apps |
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| 18:59.41 | diogenes_ | Hey guys, why would a source ./configure successfully but would fail at 'make' stage? |
| 19:00.16 | greycat | You do not source a configure file. You execute it. |
| 19:00.23 | greycat | ./configure not source ./configure |
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| 19:01.03 | greycat | If that's not what you meant, then... you're simply asking "why would make fail"? Read the errors and ask the developer/maintainer of the software. |
| 19:01.37 | greycat | Or if it's an obvious user error, fix whatever you did wrong. E.g. install whatever *-dev packages you're missing. |
| 19:02.01 | diogenes_ | well yes i do according to instructiond cd build && ../configure && make. |
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| 19:02.16 | wikan | the reason may be version of gcc |
| 19:02.36 | diogenes_ | ohh i see thanks. |
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| 19:02.50 | diogenes_ | that might be it. |
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| 19:08.03 | greycat | At some point you have to read the error message. |
| 19:08.45 | greycat | Or, you could just continue collecting random guesses from strangers who can't see your screen, have no idea what you're building, what version of Debian you're using, what problem you're having.... |
| 19:09.49 | diogenes_ | graingert, i'm trying to build gnome-vfs-2.0 on buster. |
| 19:10.02 | greycat | Oh god, that sounds horrifying. |
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| 19:10.14 | diogenes_ | i know ) |
| 19:10.31 | greycat | Are you building a .deb, or are you building something from upstream? Is this already packaged in buster? If so, did you try "apt-get build-dep" to get all the dependencies? |
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| 19:11.35 | greycat | I get nothing for apt-cache search --names-only gnome vfs so it might not be in buster, which means ... good luck. |
| 19:12.23 | diogenes_ | greycat, this is the package i try to build bependencies for and make an appimage https://packages.debian.org/stretch/gnome/brightside |
| 19:12.55 | greycat | ... why does it say stretch? |
| 19:13.14 | greycat | are you trying to build some GNOME thing on an *old* version of Debian? |
| 19:13.54 | greycat | ,depends brightside --release stretch |
| 19:13.55 | judd | Package brightside in stretch/amd64 -- depends: gconf-service, libart-2.0-2 (>= 2.3.17), libasound2 (>= 1.0.16), libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.12.4), libbonobo2-0 (>= 2.32.1-3~), libbonoboui2-0 (>= 2.15.1), libc6 (>= 2.2.5), libcairo2 (>= 1.2.4), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.11), libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1), libgconf-2-4 (>= 3.2.5), libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 (>= 2.22.0), libglade2-0 (>= 1:2.6.4-2~), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.16.0), |
| 19:13.56 | judd | libgnome-2-0, libgnomecanvas2-0 (>= 2.11.1), libgnomeui-0 (>= 2.22.0), libgnomevfs2-0 (>= 1:2.17.90), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.8.0), libice6 (>= 1:1.0.0), liborbit-2-0 (>= 1:2.14.10), libpango-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libpangocairo-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libpangoft2-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libpopt0 (>= 1.14), libsm6, libwnck22 (>= 2.30.7), libx11-6, libxml2 (>= 2.6.27), gconf2 (>= 2.28.1-2). |
| 19:14.02 | greycat | *shudder* |
| 19:14.29 | greycat | ,v brightside |
| 19:14.30 | judd | Package: brightside on amd64 -- jessie: 1.4.0-4.1; stretch: 1.4.0-4.2 |
| 19:14.41 | greycat | god, this just gets worse and worse |
| 19:15.05 | greycat | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/brightside says "[2017-12-27] brightside REMOVED from testing" |
| 19:15.35 | diogenes_ | i tried to trick the system with some shady ways but i guest i won't be able to make it fly. |
| 19:15.48 | diogenes_ | guess* |
| 19:16.31 | greycat | bug #885171 |
| 19:16.32 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/885171 in ftp.debian.org (closed): «RM: brightside -- ROM; obsolete»; severity: normal; opened: 2017-12-25; last modified: 2018-01-24. |
| 19:17.05 | greycat | "It has not been updated upstream for GNOME 3, and would otherwise hold up removal of old GNOME libraries" |
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| 19:17.36 | greycat | bug #885050 |
| 19:17.36 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/885050 in src:brightside (closed, buster, sid): «brightside: Depends on old GNOME libraries»; severity: serious; opened: 2017-12-23; last modified: 2018-01-24. |
| 19:17.58 | diogenes_ | yeah it's dated, thanks for the info. |
| 19:18.43 | greycat | The Debian maintainer of the package gave up trying (or did not have time) to port it to buster, and if you have to ask "why would make fail", I have my doubts about your ability to do so. |
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| 19:22.39 | greycat | If your actual goal isn't to get it *ported*, but just to get it *running* on your computer, then simply install the packages from stretch (including any obsolete dependencies) and live with it. |
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| 19:24.30 | diogenes_ | greycat, i wanted to make and appimage with all deps included so it's like a portable app. |
| 19:25.10 | diogenes_ | but i'm not that skilled to port it. |
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| 19:30.11 | wikan | diogenes_: it is great time to learn something new :) |
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| 19:31.47 | graingert | diogenes_: cool |
| 19:31.50 | greycat | I don't know what an "appimage" is so I'm just going to guess it's somehow like a snap thingy. If you have to build this from source, you might have better luck doing it on stretch, where it's known to work. |
| 19:32.01 | greycat | Just create a stretch chroot (use debootstrap) and build it there. |
| 19:32.17 | greycat | But I'm still not sure why you can't just use the binary packages from stretch. |
| 19:32.19 | diogenes_ | wikan, hehe maybe motivation is what i'm lacking. |
| 19:33.12 | diogenes_ | greycat, you're right a stretch chroot is a good idea, thanks again! |
| 19:33.15 | sney | if it depends on legacy gnome2 stuff it may be more feasible to port it to use MATE libs instead of updating it to gnome3. |
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| 19:36.05 | wikan | diogenes_: motivation comes right after you understand your intention :) |
| 19:37.42 | joepublic | unless there's something else you can apt-get install --by-magic |
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| 19:38.22 | greycat | the tracker and the bugs I linked were pretty explicit about it being unbuildable in buster because it depends on old GNOME libs that were removed |
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| 19:39.12 | dimitry008 | Hello guys, could you recommend to me a nice SQL Client for Debian ? (wth GUI) |
| 19:39.15 | dimitry008 | please, thank you! |
| 19:39.46 | karlpinc | dimitry008: For what database? |
| 19:40.32 | dimitry008 | karlpinc, for a MySQL database |
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| 19:41.55 | karlpinc | dimitry008: Humm. Dunno so much about mysql... There's phpmyadmin and adminer. Both are web interfaces, which is nice for multiple reasons. |
| 19:42.02 | wikan | dimitry008: I used emma |
| 19:42.06 | karlpinc | dimitry008: And omnidb. |
| 19:42.26 | wikan | dimitry008: emma is lightweight and works fine |
| 19:44.06 | quadrathoch2 | dimitry008, most use phpmyadmin, as it is also easy to setup |
| 19:44.16 | quadrathoch2 | and is a webinterface |
| 19:44.54 | dimitry008 | karlpinc, nice opton, thank you!! |
| 19:45.03 | dimitry008 | wikan, thanks a lot! :) |
| 19:45.13 | dimitry008 | quadrathoch2, okay, will try it too, thank you!! |
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| 19:54.04 | CuzImPol | yo i need some help pls. does anyone know how to permanently rename a wifi interface? |
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| 19:54.30 | greycat | CuzImPol: https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkInterfaceNames |
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| 19:54.54 | greycat | in particular, https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkInterfaceNames#CUSTOM_SCHEMES_USING_.LINK_FILES |
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| 20:16.45 | wikan | i dont understand gnome devs |
| 20:17.03 | wikan | they removes most usful functions |
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| 20:17.42 | greycat | I don't understand ANY part of gnome, not the devs, not the software, not the users.... |
| 20:17.43 | wikan | i am trying to change background in terminal. The works color palette window and no color picker |
| 20:18.38 | greycat | With a normal terminal, you would either set an xrdb variable to affect all future instances of the terminal, or set up your menu to launch that terminal with whatever --color type args you want. |
| 20:19.43 | wikan | i am going to leave gtk terminal :) |
| 20:20.13 | wikan | any suggestions? xterm seems to be nice |
| 20:20.27 | greycat | xterm, rxvt-unicode |
| 20:20.50 | sney | lxterminal is modern and gtk so it would integrate pretty well with a gnomish environment |
| 20:21.20 | wikan | is it possible to redefine color numbers? |
| 20:22.59 | sney | I don't know, that's not something I'm usually inclined to do, but probably |
| 20:24.11 | sney | though if you really want to go off the rails with colors and backgrounds, try Eterm |
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| 20:26.16 | n4dir | greycat: if you remember yesterdays back and forth about fluxbox menu: later i installed jessie and there the apps-menu gets updated automatically; to a certain degree. just small talk. |
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| 20:33.32 | nobyk | greycat: what do you prefer over gnome? I'm trying different things out rn that's why I ask |
| 20:33.50 | greycat | I've been using fvwm longer than most people in this channel have been breathing. |
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| 20:34.34 | greycat | (Maybe not "most". It's hard to guess ages.) |
| 20:34.55 | wikan | nobyk: I use oly tiled managers |
| 20:35.12 | wikan | nobyk: i3 for few years |
| 20:36.04 | nobyk | fvwm3? |
| 20:36.14 | greycat | ,v fvwm |
| 20:36.15 | nobyk | I've seen i3 a lot, it's all over r/unixporn |
| 20:36.15 | judd | Package: fvwm on amd64 -- jessie: 1:2.6.5.ds-3; stretch: 1:2.6.7-3; buster: 1:2.6.8-1; bullseye: 1:2.6.8-1+b1; sid: 1:2.6.8-1+b1 |
| 20:36.16 | wikan | it is weird for first weeks but after all you understand there is no better type of wms |
| 20:36.18 | greycat | That one. |
| 20:37.21 | nobyk | I have xfce now and I want to like it but I just don't |
| 20:37.44 | n4dir | there is also fvwm-crystal, apt-cache says like a DE around fvwm. No clue if it is an advantage for anyone, but it does exist. |
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| 20:44.23 | nobyk | I'm just gonna assume they're not very plug and play or are they? |
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| 20:48.57 | n4dir | nobyk: i'd say no, rather not. enlightenment, e17, might be something worth looking into, as you said you don't like xfce. |
| 20:49.20 | n4dir | just saying as people hardly speak of it. It is something unusual. |
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| 20:50.56 | sney | e17 does some cool stuff and it's very resource efficient, iirc. Great if you like theming and colors and backgrounds on everything. |
| 20:51.48 | n4dir | yeah, for all the bling it is very low on ressources |
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| 20:52.18 | n4dir | and yes, you can waste month and months configuring pretty much anything you can think of |
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| 20:53.01 | sney | once I worked on a distro project that used e17 as the main gui. it was very slick on some very crappy early-00s hardware. |
| 20:53.42 | n4dir | i looked into some, might be i know it. But then: i don't use computers that long. 2007 or such. |
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| 21:07.53 | nobyk | Cool, they're on my list. Thanks people |
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| 21:13.33 | wikan | dunno why but something happen to my network settings |
| 21:13.50 | wikan | i restarted computer and my network interface was down |
| 21:14.04 | wikan | now everytime this interface is down after boot |
| 21:14.08 | wikan | dunno what happen |
| 21:14.19 | wikan | network service starts at boot |
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| 21:25.20 | feetongrass | Hi |
| 21:26.02 | sney | hi |
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| 21:28.23 | wikan | hehe |
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| 21:29.03 | joshh | greycat: i remember you from this channel back when i first started using linux about 17 years ago, so you're probably in a pretty high age percentile. maybe even the oldest fvwm user alive |
| 21:29.27 | joshh | actually 18 i think |
| 21:29.32 | joshh | pretty sure i first tried it in 02 |
| 21:29.43 | wikan | joshh: oldest and only one who use fvwm :P |
| 21:29.57 | joshh | someone has to be the boomer here |
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| 21:31.16 | joshh | greycat should post to unixporn |
| 21:31.25 | wikan | his taking a nap in his chair now :) |
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| 21:34.25 | brabo | eep. apt install youtube-dl in buster installs deps all right, but then fails due to: /usr/bin/env: âpythonâ: No such file or directory |
| 21:34.47 | brabo | symlink of python to python2 in /usr/bin fixes things |
| 21:34.57 | brabo | urr *to python3 |
| 21:34.58 | annadane | you probably don't want debian's youtube-dl anyway, it breaks all the time |
| 21:35.02 | brabo | it works |
| 21:35.09 | brabo | provided i make that symlink |
| 21:35.56 | brabo | so this is more of: why does apt install python3 and no python2 present on the system not create that symlink? |
| 21:36.46 | wikan | my question is why python3 is installed by default :| |
| 21:37.05 | brabo | there was no python installed at all, and python3 got installed as dependency |
| 21:37.22 | brabo | but that symlink was not created, as afaik it was always created with python2 |
| 21:37.44 | wikan | how it is possible? What desktop are you use? |
| 21:37.55 | brabo | what does my DE have to see with that? |
| 21:38.01 | joshh | most distros have python and perl in their base for a lot of their standard tooling |
| 21:38.15 | joshh | and that just becomes the system python, etc |
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| 21:39.00 | brabo | this is so besides the point. a debian buster with no python installed, gets python3 installed as dependency, and apt does not check for and create if missing python symlink to it. |
| 21:40.23 | wikan | every person who use python as dependences should pay python tax |
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| 21:40.46 | joshh | is it possible to not have python installed? |
| 21:40.59 | brabo | what my DE has to see with that, idk :) afaik debian is not just debian with gnome and all the extras installed from the installer iso ;) |
| 21:41.02 | brabo | joshh: yes |
| 21:41.09 | sney | probably if you disabled recommends across the board and didn't install a gui |
| 21:41.09 | wikan | joshh: probably it is. for first few minuts of using linux |
| 21:41.23 | joshh | i thought it was part of the base system but never looked hard or cared |
| 21:41.25 | wikan | before you try to install more apps |
| 21:41.27 | joshh | and never not wanted it |
| 21:41.28 | brabo | sney: exactly |
| 21:41.34 | sney | !why recommends |
| 21:41.35 | dpkg | From Debian 5.0 "Lenny" onwards, apt-get and aptitude both install "Recommended" packages by default. From <policy> section 7.2, Recommends, "declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency. The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations." You're not that unusual, trust us. By not installing "recommended" packages you will be missing functionality. |
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| 21:42.14 | brabo | sney: i know. still imho not installing recommends should still result in things working |
| 21:42.36 | sney | --no-install-recommends is *only* appropriate on a case by case basis. if you do it by default, you are only going to shoot yourself in the foot. for all other questions, read the dpkg factoid again. |
| 21:42.42 | brabo | even if without some extras. this is hardly an extra one would blame on not accepting recommends |
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| 21:44.42 | brabo | sney: so you say because python2 or python3 was previously not installed as a recommends that now with installing python3 this ymlink is not created? |
| 21:45.17 | n4dir | still wondering why you hadn't installed python in the first place |
| 21:45.37 | brabo | n4dir: that is i think much besides the point. fyi, i didn't need it. |
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| 21:46.08 | n4dir | the point is that you sure did an installation which is a bit odd. |
| 21:46.20 | brabo | n4dir: and it works like a charm for over 2 years |
| 21:46.23 | n4dir | s/sure/probably |
| 21:47.06 | n4dir | and that might (or might not) result in the actual problem. |
| 21:47.42 | brabo | and yes, it is an odd install no doubt, running debian without systemd is a challenge ;) but i don't think this is the issue here. afaik it is normal that if python2 or python3 gets installed, this symlink is created. |
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| 21:49.15 | n4dir | i can't see how the init system comes into this |
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| 21:49.51 | brabo | just saying i have indeed an odd system, and saying that that is for as far as i can see, not the issue ;) |
| 21:50.15 | brabo | anyway, i thought i'd be nice to report that missing symlink. was all. |
| 21:50.32 | brabo | if not relevant, then that's fine ;) |
| 21:50.39 | sney | debian's default python in buster is python 2 and there are many known issues with having /usr/bin/python point to python3. bullseye (the to-be-released debian 11) will have python 3 as the default and there was a whole chaotic transition to get to that point |
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| 21:51.44 | brabo | sney: ah, it's because buster is deaulting to py2 and not yet py3. i see. |
| 21:51.51 | n4dir | brabo: assuming i understand your intention correct that would be a bug-report. Nothing anyone here could do about it |
| 21:52.14 | brabo | that makes sense, and afaik 2/3 have caused problems yes ;) |
| 21:52.26 | sney | having a debian system with no default python env is such a weird edge-case that a bug report to that effect would probably just be ignored |
| 21:52.36 | brabo | n4dir: well, a bug report if there was something to report, sney pointed out something very useful to know |
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| 21:52.50 | brabo | and thus seems there's no bug to report ;) |
| 21:53.07 | brabo | sney: also, time will fix this |
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| 21:53.22 | brabo | if bullseye defaults to 3 i'm sure this issue will be poof, gone |
| 21:53.46 | sney | yes, though youtube-dl will always lag behind google's api changes, that's a whole different can of snakes |
| 21:53.52 | brabo | sney: thanks for your info, that makes sense :) |
| 21:53.59 | brabo | yeah |
| 21:54.42 | brabo | i usually do a manual install of yt-dl. spotted it in buster repos last week, so i was: ah, should try that :D |
| 21:56.13 | sney | no problem, and for the future try to remember that the purpose of Recommends isn't some evil dude twirling his moustache and laughing as he adds more bloat to your system. The vast majority of the time, they're necessary for normal use. Leave them on and only disable in specific situations |
| 21:57.01 | brabo | sney: but you're blaming this on recommends... because recommends would have installed python2.7 and had the python symlink point to that? |
| 21:57.04 | sney | or at least if you have a weird problem remember that you disabled recommends and that's probably why |
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| 22:05.07 | sney | brabo: yep, and as documented at https://github.com/rbrito/pkg-youtube-dl/tree/debian/2019.01.17-1 it is supported by python 2 and 3 so it would have then worked. |
| 22:05.49 | sney | I'm not sure why the package depends on py3 specifically, and *that* might be a bug, except that it won't matter as soon as bullseye is released and nobody except the lunatics who disable Recommends from the get-go will even notice. |
| 22:07.32 | brabo | sney: probably because whoever packaged it had the sanity to not let it depend on an obsolete python version? |
| 22:08.13 | sney | except that package is for buster. if it were my package I would have it depend on python-defaults and let it follow the rest of the system |
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| 22:12.27 | brabo | sney: well, i guess this is an edge case in general, i get that debian for the stable doesn't mid-life want to switch python default to 3. even though now it's been 11 months since the eol of py2 was announced over a decade ago to be 5 years ago, and in 2014 set for 2020 |
| 22:12.39 | brabo | damn |
| 22:13.00 | brabo | scratch the 11 months, that wa shalf thought about the 01/01/2020 exact date |
| 22:14.39 | sney | announcing an EOL and having a reasonable transition for one of the most popular OSes in the world are quite different things. This has been a long time coming and it can't be done casually. If you want to get into the weeds of the developer discussions on this, I'm sure there are a few novels on lists.debian.org |
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| 22:16.03 | sney | even after bullseye releases in mid-2021 or so, we'll likely still have a huge volume of people trying to support py2 code in various situations |
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| 22:16.41 | brabo | sney: uhm. 2014 the eol of py2 was announced for 2020 |
| 22:16.43 | brabo | so uhm |
| 22:17.05 | brabo | and if anyone wants to support py2 code atm, then i think it's clear who to blame ^^ |
| 22:19.02 | sney | yeah and if every linux user was a solitary nerd doing their own thing then it wouldn't matter, but that is not the case. you don't seem to know the lengths that enterprises will go to in order to keep using legacy apps that they paid for. |
| 22:19.43 | sney | bullseye will have python3 as the default, and indeed won't have python2 available in the repos, and I predict there will be some 3rd party repo with python 2.7.100 that we'll all be arguing about for years to come |
| 22:20.11 | ksk | haha, agreeing on that :D |
| 22:20.17 | sney | "blame" is irrelevant when the software is still there and there are juggernauts still trying to use it. |
| 22:20.35 | ksk | if not a "deb27ian" fork ;) |
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| 22:21.24 | sney | we had this on the small scale with hexchat-python switching to 3 as the default and that's an irc client! but there are hundreds of py2 scripts from the 90s and early 00s where the developer is MIA and people still want to use the scripts |
| 22:21.58 | brabo | sney: oh i don't doubt it. but considering the first announcement of retirement of py2 was in.. 2008? i'd say blame is not unwarranted :) |
| 22:22.14 | sney | it's not unwarranted, it's just meaningless irl. |
| 22:22.29 | sney | may as well go yell at the ocean |
| 22:23.12 | ksk | I know it was a big effort for sabnzbd (usenet client) to switch to python3 |
| 22:23.59 | ksk | brabo: just because upstream EOLs something does not mean its not enterprise standard still for ten years ;) |
| 22:24.15 | karlpinc | cobol |
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| 22:34.21 | brabo | ksk: ;) |
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| 22:58.44 | orion | Hi. What is the proper IRC network/channel to ask RockPro64-related questions? |
| 22:58.58 | orion | (Specifically, I am trying to get Debian to boot off of the eMMC) |
| 22:59.40 | sney | if it's actually debian and not some weird vendor image, probably #debian-arm on OFTC |
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| 23:02.15 | orion | Thank you. |
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