| 00:00.52 | *** join/#debian DennisG (~dennis@eva.infra.promising.nl) |
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| 00:16.30 | wsky | so debian is a honeypot |
| 00:16.40 | randompleb | what? |
| 00:16.54 | wsky | you heard me |
| 00:17.06 | wsky | you sell user data to 3rd party entities |
| 00:17.19 | annadane | keep your conspiracy shit out of the suport channel |
| 00:17.24 | randompleb | Talk's cheap. Show me the proof |
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| 00:17.41 | wsky | muy whole life for last several years is a proof |
| 00:18.04 | *** join/#debian CaCO3 (~CaCO3@pool-98-114-176-56.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:18.32 | randompleb | Why not let wireshark run in the background and look for yourself? For me, theres nothing |
| 00:18.45 | wsky | sending a password is a single packet |
| 00:19.06 | joepublic | a honeypot collects information on would-be penetrations, not on conspiracy theorists. |
| 00:19.32 | wsky | i feal betrayed |
| 00:19.41 | wsky | feel. |
| 00:19.53 | joepublic | your feelings aren't going to affect reality in any way, to be quite frank |
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| 00:20.22 | joepublic | that's not how facts work... |
| 00:20.27 | randompleb | wsky, What's this nonsense. What would someone do with your passwkrd? Do you have a public server running on your machine? Do you have sensitivr data? Please dont troll here |
| 00:20.28 | wsky | that's what you think |
| 00:20.55 | wsky | somehow there are people aware of my personal data on a fresh debi9an instalation |
| 00:21.03 | wsky | how come it's not honeypot |
| 00:22.21 | wsky | feds and cia all over the community |
| 00:22.48 | joepublic | yes, feds and *nsa all over the community. sad thing. |
| 00:22.57 | *** join/#debian troy (~troy@unaffiliated/yort) |
| 00:22.59 | annadane | can confirm. am i fbi agent. |
| 00:23.02 | annadane | am* |
| 00:23.08 | annadane | wow, fingers. |
| 00:23.13 | randompleb | I can confirm too. I work for the NSA |
| 00:23.39 | joepublic | despite my clearance level, I can confirm that they are joking |
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| 00:24.43 | annadane | on a more serious note you're not being very specific when you say "people are aware of my data" |
| 00:24.49 | annadane | how can we possibly comment |
| 00:25.43 | wsky | there are entities on freenode aware of wjhat i'm doing on my computer |
| 00:25.48 | wsky | it's just like windows |
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| 00:26.06 | wsky | debian's security is ilusoric |
| 00:26.11 | annadane | err. well, i still don't know what you're talking about; in the meantime, i'm quite sure debian is not a honeypot |
| 00:26.29 | *** join/#debian itamarst (uid165457@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ndptpltyloksavqu) |
| 00:26.39 | joepublic | to be honest, irc is a completely unsecured protocol that doesn't encrypt transmissions and they may be monitored by anyone. |
| 00:27.10 | wsky | do you really think nsa and cia would let everyone use top secret grade encryption just like that? |
| 00:27.16 | wsky | of course not |
| 00:27.20 | randompleb | Hell, even your public IPs ... different story if youre behind a NAT |
| 00:27.29 | annadane | i give up |
| 00:27.30 | joepublic | even unspecified freenodian entities. |
| 00:27.33 | annadane | closes the window |
| 00:27.34 | wsky | same case like with original crypt and decrypt from original unix |
| 00:28.11 | randompleb | wsky, Talk's cheap. Show me the code. Show me where jt is backdoored or so if you are gonna claim it |
| 00:28.41 | wsky | it might be even hardware level, do you remember heartbleed? |
| 00:28.46 | randompleb | And what makes you think people are spying on you? How important of a person are you? |
| 00:28.52 | randompleb | heartbleed yes |
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| 00:28.56 | joepublic | debian might be at the hardware level? say that again slowly |
| 00:29.00 | inthl | I am NSA. what can I guys help you with? |
| 00:29.17 | randompleb | heartbleed got overlooked because of their internal memory allocation routines AFAIK |
| 00:29.25 | annadane | heartbleed was openssl in general, not specifically debian |
| 00:29.45 | inthl | it got overlooked because noone noticed and noone was mr. expert enough to review that stuff, everyone used it for convenience. |
| 00:29.46 | inthl | next? |
| 00:29.58 | wsky | remember the original crypt and decrypt from the original unix |
| 00:30.09 | wsky | they let whole world use it only after they cracked it |
| 00:30.17 | inthl | what's the news? |
| 00:30.35 | randompleb | Yes, why is this surprising? Security's a process |
| 00:30.37 | annadane | now, it is provably true thanks to snowden that the nsa does try to weaken encryption, so i don't doubt that they've tried general backdoors, but you're making a specific claim about debian |
| 00:30.39 | wsky | that any other linux system is same case scenario |
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| 00:31.06 | randompleb | wsky, then what are you proposing we should use? |
| 00:31.08 | wsky | the security is ilusoric and linux distros are honeypots attrackting people for security and exploiting them even more than windows |
| 00:31.25 | annadane | i promise you it's not more than windows |
| 00:31.30 | inthl | again, what's the news? the pentagon employs 25.000 mathematicians, what do you think they are doing all day long? |
| 00:31.33 | annadane | open source is generally inherently *more* secure |
| 00:32.01 | annadane | you're making specific claims, not backing them up, and generally being unhelpful |
| 00:32.04 | wsky | annadane: it reaches no security level above windows |
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| 00:32.25 | joepublic | have you talked to someone about this? A counselor, doctor? |
| 00:32.26 | inthl | snowden is just *one* babbling idiot who had intel and clearance got into the 'wrong' hands, that's it, no more behind that |
| 00:32.35 | annadane | and debian, among linux distributions, tends to have the best reputation period |
| 00:32.48 | inthl | that's true. the NSA approves. |
| 00:32.49 | randompleb | wsky, really? how come that many many ransomwares run on windows? You thinkbits because of thr market share? |
| 00:32.54 | annadane | snowden is not an idiot. but whatever |
| 00:33.05 | inthl | however, debian is using linux as the kernel, our 25k guys are looking into that as we speak |
| 00:33.07 | wsky | randompleb: because windows is way more popular on ransomware target |
| 00:33.29 | wsky | 90% personal computers is windows |
| 00:33.30 | inthl | windows is popular because of its wide range of use, that's the only reason |
| 00:34.43 | inthl | a friendly hint from your nsa guys: do not use the usual encryption stronger than 2048 bits - everything higher makes it actually easier for the mathematicians to break |
| 00:34.49 | annadane | debian has routinely very quickly patched security holes |
| 00:34.57 | annadane | so you're making specific claims about the project |
| 00:35.00 | annadane | you're not very convincing |
| 00:35.23 | joepublic | a pastor, perhaps, or nurse? |
| 00:35.27 | wsky | what you believe in is a mirage |
| 00:35.51 | randompleb | wsky, where's the proof? Ive been asking for it ever since you got here .. |
| 00:36.51 | randompleb | On a side note, when is debian getting support for luks2 /boot. Grub added the support in January. |
| 00:37.01 | inthl | my dick is hard right now. theoretically I could proof that. how about you? tell us something we don't know about - that may or may not be a 0day |
| 00:37.38 | joepublic | nice rhetorical skills. |
| 00:37.40 | wsky | randompleb: can't proove that |
| 00:38.01 | inthl | poc perhaps? any theory? we can work with theories very well |
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| 00:38.23 | randompleb | wsky, Then why assume? Is it possible that we live in a VM? Possible but highly unlikely. No evidence. |
| 00:38.48 | inthl | I have seen cats walking twice the same doorstep. the same cat, I swar. |
| 00:38.49 | inthl | e |
| 00:38.52 | joepublic | Let's establish some things. |
| 00:39.07 | randompleb | No Neo thats the drugs inthl |
| 00:39.13 | wsky | randompleb: i can see what's going on around me, that's it |
| 00:39.28 | randompleb | wsky, Yes, I can too because I have eyes |
| 00:39.36 | joepublic | 1. Is the U.S. government busily engaged in spying on its citizens, possibly including people here? That is a yes. really no argument about that. |
| 00:39.59 | joepublic | 2. Is any system fully secure? That's a philosophical question, but its answer is "probably not". |
| 00:40.06 | wsky | joepublic: that's right |
| 00:40.24 | inthl | let's face it, make it very short: the nsa - less likely any other agency from outside us - can obtain any information from you and the hardware you use. there is just one condition: you have to be of interest, a target. assume that for every country's leaders and politicians, lobby activists, ceo's of every non-pussy revenue company |
| 00:40.29 | inthl | linux or not. |
| 00:40.37 | wsky | there is no possible way i was able to get compromised in any known way to me yet i am compromised |
| 00:40.39 | joepublic | 3. Does debian work in secret to hide such disclosures? Again, easy answer. No. bugs.debian.org. |
| 00:40.44 | annadane | conspiracy theorists who tend to be correct, try to calmly explain to others their position, how they arrived at their position, and what the general public is missing. conspiracy theorists who are just crackpots speak in absolutes, about how "i have eyes" and "i see what's around me" and "what you believe in is a mirage" |
| 00:40.55 | wsky | annadane lives in a wonderland |
| 00:41.00 | inthl | the answer to my text is short: don't be a target |
| 00:41.02 | annadane | give your specific claims. we have no idea who these "people on freenode" are who "have your information" |
| 00:41.03 | inthl | stay below the radar |
| 00:41.05 | annadane | wsky, fuck you. |
| 00:41.08 | wsky | <3 |
| 00:41.11 | annadane | i don't suffer fools. |
| 00:41.27 | joepublic | heh you're doing it right now |
| 00:41.43 | randompleb | wsky, Is it possible that I'm talking to you is not real. And you'rebin a VM? |
| 00:41.48 | inthl | guys, I just told you the conditions. there's nothing more to summarize |
| 00:41.50 | annadane | you haven't even specified how you've been compromised, for all we know it has nothing to do with debian |
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| 00:42.30 | joepublic | inthl, you are kind of wrong. With automated widespread collection, you do not need to be a target at all. |
| 00:43.03 | randompleb | Yes, but automated data can be huge. Filtering that for valuable targets make sense |
| 00:43.07 | joepublic | example of widespread automated collection, https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hubs/ |
| 00:43.13 | inthl | well that's not the right conclusion. the issue is that data, or mostly meta-data, is collected from everyone - but it won't lead to any further investigation, until you don't become a target |
| 00:43.47 | inthl | this meta data just makes it way easier to identify a target and get to him/her in case they become a target |
| 00:43.52 | annadane | the NSA absolutely does spy on people and does try to implement backdoors, but that's different from saying that debian specifically is a honeypot |
| 00:43.56 | inthl | stay below the radar. |
| 00:44.10 | inthl | I use debian on all my hosts, there are plenty |
| 00:44.11 | joepublic | too late, I am a dues paying card carrying libertarian party member |
| 00:44.19 | inthl | I feel safer than with anything else - not safe, but safer |
| 00:44.31 | wsky | i felt safer on 98se |
| 00:44.41 | annadane | and actually, if we wanted to make that argument, debian isn't run by a company, it's a volunteer effort, so if anything you'd think it's harder to exploit |
| 00:44.43 | randompleb | lmao I should come here more often |
| 00:44.45 | wsky | back in 00s |
| 00:44.47 | joepublic | wsky, I can find you a 98se download link if you like. |
| 00:44.47 | inthl | i watched most porn with 92se |
| 00:45.12 | inthl | the meta data collection was way less with 98se than it is today |
| 00:45.39 | inthl | at that time, phone calls and voice to text translation for bell atlantic and all the others was of priority |
| 00:46.13 | joepublic | sure, president, bomb, allah, local terror cell, upcoming operation |
| 00:46.14 | inthl | its peak was in the 80s I think |
| 00:46.22 | inthl | blackbriar |
| 00:46.33 | joepublic | we think it's really got legs. |
| 00:47.23 | randompleb | Ive got three legs and the middle one is gonna get buried in someone if buster doesnt get gcc docs soon |
| 00:47.26 | inthl | don't forget treadstone, prism and ubuntu |
| 00:47.44 | joepublic | gcc docs are non-free. read them from the upstream. |
| 00:48.05 | inthl | you know, he is right in one thing |
| 00:48.09 | randompleb | Yeah, but i think theyre available from the backports too? |
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| 00:48.47 | inthl | ubuntu is a debian derivate, the most used distro out there - hence a mass-metadata target. ubuntu takes too much sources from debian without in-depth checks, so there you go. debian is unsafe. |
| 00:49.04 | annadane | windows is *so* trustworthy, how microsoft forced everyone to update to windows 10 and several people have concerns about their telemetry |
| 00:49.09 | annadane | yeah, much more secure than debian |
| 00:49.24 | inthl | dude I just told you, debian is not safe. |
| 00:49.35 | inthl | I'm gonna switch to bsd |
| 00:49.48 | joepublic | wait, didn't that heartbleed thing come straight from OpenBSD? |
| 00:49.53 | randompleb | No |
| 00:49.55 | randompleb | it didnt |
| 00:50.05 | inthl | who cares? considering that irc is 'not secure', i just became a target |
| 00:50.10 | inthl | so it is over for me anyway |
| 00:50.23 | randompleb | openbsd forked openssl into libressl after the heartbleed incodent |
| 00:50.24 | annadane | if you're going to make any argument that debian is insecure then don't use "people on freenode have my info" as an example and specifically without being concrete about why you think it's the OS's fault |
| 00:50.29 | joepublic | yeah you are chatting in the channel where someone said bomb president allah |
| 00:50.35 | wsky | i'm migrating to freebsd |
| 00:50.38 | wsky | because fall |
| 00:51.00 | inthl | I'm megrating to windows 10, because xhamster hardware video accelleration |
| 00:51.02 | joepublic | please note that chatting from freebsd is similarly unencrypted and nonsecure |
| 00:51.10 | joepublic | please note that chatting from Windows 10 is similarly unencrypted and nonsecure |
| 00:51.41 | randompleb | Genuine question, how come gcc docs is non free? |
| 00:51.44 | inthl | then novell netware it is. or that cisco os. what could be more trustworthy than cisco? |
| 00:51.52 | annadane | probably because of invariant sections |
| 00:51.58 | annadane | like emacs's docs |
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| 00:52.01 | randompleb | I see... |
| 00:52.08 | annadane | i don't know for sure, but it's gnu, 99% that's the reason why |
| 00:53.16 | inthl | guys please let me work on my stuff. to get more m0ney, because I want to become a real target. thanks |
| 00:53.23 | annadane | but it should still be packaged in debian at least, i'd be surprised if not |
| 00:53.38 | randompleb | Also, on the topic of apparmor vs selinux? i get that that selinux is complex. Was this the only reason apparmor was chosen? |
| 00:53.51 | randompleb | yeah it should atleast be in the non free repos |
| 00:53.53 | annadane | ,v gcc-8-doc |
| 00:53.54 | judd | Package: gcc-8-doc on amd64 -- buster-backports/non-free: 8.3.0-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 8.4.0-1; sid/non-free: 8.4.0-1 |
| 00:54.00 | annadane | it's in backports, non-free |
| 00:54.05 | annadane | so enable backports and non-free |
| 00:54.17 | joepublic | that's a terrible reason to enable non-free |
| 00:54.28 | annadane | why? you're not pulling in other things |
| 00:54.36 | annadane | it's not going to make your entire system full of crp |
| 00:54.37 | annadane | crap |
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| 00:54.53 | joepublic | adding non-free adds all non-free packages indiscriminately to apt search, apt-cache search |
| 00:55.00 | annadane | i guess |
| 00:55.06 | randompleb | yeaj thats true |
| 00:55.21 | randompleb | Maybe manually copy thr man pagrs? |
| 00:55.27 | tyzef | somiaj? |
| 00:55.41 | joepublic | or just get the package from packages.debian.org and install it |
| 00:56.02 | annadane | *i* am cautious to typically only install from main, but yeah, i can see where other users don't bother checking |
| 00:57.04 | tyzef | somiaj I struggle to mount the usb pen dribe on net install. I had found the file, it's /var/log/syslog |
| 00:57.43 | randompleb | What format is the pendrive in? |
| 00:57.49 | tyzef | normally I simply do : mount /dev/sdc /mnt |
| 00:57.57 | tyzef | udb |
| 00:58.19 | tyzef | format is udb |
| 00:59.40 | annadane | the fact debian even separates things judiciously into main contrib and non-free and by default is 100% free software is a further argument against debian being a honeypot... but whatever... |
| 01:00.05 | joepublic | debian is a great platform for building a honeypot, of course |
| 01:00.11 | randompleb | udb? First time hearing that... Does anyone here have any knowledge aboht thi |
| 01:00.32 | joepublic | unless it's a type for "usb", then no |
| 01:00.36 | joepublic | lol typo |
| 01:00.43 | randompleb | haha |
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| 01:02.08 | annadane | social contract? honeypot. |
| 01:02.14 | annadane | excellent reputation since 1993? honeypot. |
| 01:02.23 | randompleb | Again, does anyone know why Debian chose apparmor over selinux? I get that selinix is complex but that cant be the only reason... |
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| 01:03.05 | joepublic | what makes you think debian does not have selinux? |
| 01:03.14 | randompleb | no ofcourse it does |
| 01:03.21 | randompleb | but as a default thing |
| 01:03.23 | annadane | there are specific reasons for not selinux by default i just don't remember what they are |
| 01:03.55 | silverballz | anyone find a machine code monitor yet? |
| 01:04.21 | annadane | i think one issue selinux has suffered from is it becomes a little bit like Mandatory Access Control on windows where *everything* asks for permission to run... but this is going off memory, i don't really know |
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| 01:06.23 | randompleb | I see. thanks. also, radare2 got removed earlier because the radare developers didnt support the veraion shipped with debian.Any idea if it's coming back? I know I can just compile it myself or get an appimage |
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| 01:08.35 | annadane | anecdotally, a comment from reddit: "Personally, while SELinux may be useful in some corner cases, its extra complexity makes it a non-starter for me. I'm more likely to make a config mistake using SELinux than run into a situation where SELinux is the better tool for the job. I've used AppArmor and it works well, is a lot easier to set up and does the job. For 99% of use cases AppArmor is probably going to be just as useful, without all the |
| 01:08.35 | annadane | headaches." |
| 01:09.19 | tyzef | sorry randompleb, it's UDF |
| 01:09.20 | annadane | plus yeah apparmor is integrated by default as of debian 10 so that's a good reason to use it |
| 01:09.31 | annadane | (apparmor source code freely available? honeypot.) |
| 01:11.43 | annadane | and this is where the whole discussion started if you're interested in the perusal of such: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2017/08/msg00090.html |
| 01:12.36 | annadane | including a section of |
| 01:12.36 | annadane | Why AppArmor and not SELinux? |
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| 01:13.14 | randompleb | thanks for the link. Will check it out now. tyzef i beleve you need to specify the udf format with "-t udf" when using the mount command. i may be wrong but try it anyway |
| 01:14.21 | tyzef | ok randompleb thanks |
| 01:14.33 | randompleb | tyzef did it work? |
| 01:15.00 | tyzef | okay O will do, hehe |
| 01:15.12 | tyzef | s>o>s |
| 01:15.43 | annadane | great son |
| 01:15.43 | annadane | g |
| 01:15.50 | randompleb | I am curious why you have your usb drive formatted as udf? does it have only one partition or multiple?? |
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| 01:16.49 | tyzef | "mount -t udf /dev/sdb /mnt" should do it |
| 01:18.20 | randompleb | no |
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| 01:18.33 | tyzef | UDF, because I was disturbed by root permission, udf do not disturb regarding that |
| 01:18.52 | randompleb | wait did it work?? |
| 01:19.23 | tyzef | not yet try |
| 01:19.32 | tyzef | ok I try it now |
| 01:19.41 | tyzef | command found here : https://askubuntu.com/questions/359264/how-to-open-udf-volume |
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| 01:21.25 | tyzef | actually I cant do a fdisk -l so I don't know the name of that usb pen on the computer |
| 01:21.37 | randompleb | i think /dev/sdb wont work. /dev/sdb1 may work. Again, i might be wromg. |
| 01:21.40 | tyzef | fdisk is not installed |
| 01:21.49 | randompleb | fdisk is not installed? |
| 01:22.08 | tyzef | yes on netinstall |
| 01:22.16 | randompleb | AFAIK fdisk is installed on netinst |
| 01:22.39 | randompleb | did you enter root with "su -" |
| 01:22.39 | tyzef | fdisk: not found |
| 01:22.45 | tyzef | oops |
| 01:22.57 | dvs | lsblk |
| 01:23.06 | tyzef | what ! su : not found |
| 01:23.14 | tyzef | i am in tty |
| 01:23.26 | tyzef | i am in during the isnatll |
| 01:23.56 | ChiLLabiS | do su the sudo fdisk -l |
| 01:23.58 | tyzef | lsblk not found |
| 01:24.20 | tyzef | sudo not found |
| 01:24.29 | tyzef | oops |
| 01:24.30 | ChiLLabiS | ok |
| 01:24.42 | tyzef | bin/sh sudo not found |
| 01:24.50 | tyzef | path problem? |
| 01:25.21 | somiaj | the install is a very limited shell, many caommands won't be there |
| 01:25.38 | somiaj | you shouldn't need su from the installer shell |
| 01:25.55 | tyzef | apt is also not found |
| 01:26.04 | randompleb | Oh he hasn't installed yet? He's in the installer? |
| 01:26.11 | tyzef | yes |
| 01:26.14 | ChiLLabiS | ok |
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| 01:27.37 | randompleb | Why are you mounting a usb device i the installler? Drivers? |
| 01:28.12 | tyzef | to get that : /var/log/syslog |
| 01:28.25 | tyzef | gold is there in it |
| 01:28.51 | tyzef | the why I can't connect up my wifi interface |
| 01:29.11 | tyzef | but only with that netinstall wlp2s0 get UP |
| 01:29.17 | tyzef | roughly |
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| 01:29.53 | tyzef | it show everything but my knowledge is to low for me to explain it |
| 01:30.10 | randompleb | Maybe because your wifi driver is non free ? Debian installer doesnt contain non free firmware? Can this be the reason or was it working |
| 01:30.13 | randompleb | earlier? |
| 01:30.13 | tyzef | i need to pastebin it |
| 01:30.49 | tyzef | we suspect kernel issue |
| 01:31.12 | randompleb | which laptop do you have? |
| 01:31.20 | tyzef | eeepc |
| 01:31.45 | tyzef | ar9285 |
| 01:31.50 | tyzef | ath9k |
| 01:32.14 | tyzef | I can scan and can't UP |
| 01:32.55 | tyzef | it do perfectly the job on debian 9.0.4 xfce |
| 01:33.29 | somiaj | tyzef: are you justing to see what kernel the installer uses to test it out (is the network working int he isntaller?) |
| 01:34.05 | tyzef | no yet not seen |
| 01:34.08 | tyzef | ok |
| 01:34.21 | tyzef | hehe, how to scroll in TTY |
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| 01:38.45 | tyzef | somiaj, uname -r say 4.19.0-8-amd64 |
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| 01:39.07 | somiaj | that is the debian versin, what is the actual version, should be 4.19.<something> and is listed later in uname -a |
| 01:39.23 | somiaj | yea that is kernel release, I want kernel version, uname -v |
| 01:40.01 | tyzef | uname -a + 4.19.98-1 |
| 01:40.41 | somiaj | http://snapshot.debian.org/package/linux-signed-amd64/4.19.98%2B1/#linux-image-4.19.0-8-amd64_4.19.98-1 |
| 01:40.53 | tyzef | uname -v =SMP Debian 4.19.98-1 (2020-01-26) |
| 01:41.10 | somiaj | there is the kernel the installer is using, you could try to install that in your debian 10 and see if the network card with it, if it does you have basically idenfieid where this regresion occured |
| 01:42.45 | tyzef | yes |
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| 01:44.23 | johnfg | Howdy! |
| 01:44.32 | tyzef | well I will give a try asap, it's here near by 7am and I haven't yet slept, i take a nap, let you know asap ! thank you all for your attention and help ! |
| 01:44.36 | dvs | Hey oh! |
| 01:45.26 | johnfg | somiaj: Did you see anything else wrong with the way I went about moving/mounting /var? When I rebooted, there were problems, even though /var was mounted. Not sure what it was. I had to boot in recovery mode to get things back. |
| 01:45.57 | somiaj | the only thing I noticed is why your mew mount point had a /var/var |
| 01:46.02 | somiaj | oh you were using -R, one second. |
| 01:46.39 | somiaj | yea, you probably need to use -a, so permissions and symlinks are preservered, I wasn't paying that close attention, just trying to answer your /var/var/ mostly |
| 01:46.50 | johnfg | Right, and I did your correction. |
| 01:47.22 | johnfg | So, is that `cp -Ra /var/* /mnt/temp (where lvol3 is mounted)? |
| 01:47.35 | somiaj | the R is extra, since a includes it |
| 01:48.00 | somiaj | but yea cp -a should preserve everything |
| 01:48.14 | johnfg | It's on the same machine, but would there be any advantage to using rsync -av? |
| 01:48.21 | johnfg | If I want the verbose? |
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| 01:51.47 | somiaj | using rsync is fine |
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| 01:59.19 | ectospasm | I prefer `rsync -av` over `cp -Ra` because if the operation stops for whatever reason, you can pick up where you left off instead of copying files that have already been copied. |
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| 02:02.21 | somiaj | alos you could use rsync -av /var/ /new/loc vs rsync -av /var/* since rsync deals with src and src/ differently (see man page) |
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| 03:43.41 | brieweb | I upgraded to Debian buster on my server and Xen upgraded to Xen 4.11, but it won't boot. I was able to go back and boot Xen 4.8 from grub |
| 03:43.44 | brieweb | any tips? |
| 03:44.21 | brieweb | I see three things that load on the screen. loading kernel, loading xen, and then loading ramdisk. Nothing else appears and it just hangs |
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| 03:47.38 | brieweb | I seem to recall before that a system hung on openvwitch. |
| 03:49.12 | brieweb | maybe I should reconfigure xen? |
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| 04:27.18 | johnfg | thanks for the help guys. I'll post later if the machine boots up correctly. |
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| 04:34.05 | brieweb | hmm, it seems that I have a number of xenconsoled.service in /etc/systemd and two subfolders |
| 04:34.47 | brieweb | and they link to the xenconsoled in /usr/lib/xen-4.8/bin/xenconsoled |
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| 04:41.23 | somiaj | brieweb: usually vendor services are in /lib/systemd/system, so those might be local edits using systemctl edit service, or somethting similar. You could see if moving those out of the way (for a backup) helps things |
| 04:41.58 | somiaj | and by vendor, debian supplied services, (though postinstall scripts may add links in /etc/systemd |
| 04:43.25 | brieweb | funny thing is I upgraded to xen-4.11, yet I did not do an autoremove and it doesn't have any scripts there |
| 04:43.38 | brieweb | but, I will try moving them out of the way |
| 04:43.49 | brieweb | I should look at the release notes for xen-4.11 |
| 04:44.58 | somiaj | I don't know xen so can't really help there, I just know that the standard for how debian packages should be putting their service files in /lib/systemd not /etc |
| 04:45.05 | somiaj | but local overrides will be in /etc |
| 04:45.40 | brieweb | oh. I see |
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| 05:21.56 | brieweb | I deleted the two files /etc/systemd/xenconsoled.service and /etc/systemd/system/xenconsoled.service and it still brings it up when I boot into Xen 4.8. Xen 4.11 still won't boot though. I also loaded the intel-microcode |
| 05:22.11 | brieweb | I could always reinstall the hypervisor. |
| 05:22.20 | somiaj | brieweb: well wihtout the files in /etc, it will use the files in /lib |
| 05:22.30 | somiaj | you can mask the service if you don't want it to be brought up at all |
| 05:22.36 | brieweb | ok |
| 05:23.14 | brieweb | I wonder if somehow it stops the xen 4.11 from booting? |
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| 05:28.02 | somiaj | brieweb: as I said I don't use xen so can only give some basics about how systemd handels services |
| 05:34.16 | velix | Can I select two repositories when using `apt -t` ? |
| 05:37.17 | somiaj | velix: what use case do you need this for? |
| 05:37.38 | somiaj | all -t does is bring the pinning of the repo to 999, I don't think you can select two, and don't see why you would need this. |
| 05:37.38 | velix | somiaj: This is my dev system and I've got several repositories, which do backporting. |
| 05:38.16 | somiaj | velix: you might need to pin those repos better to not need to do -t |
| 05:38.37 | somiaj | are you always wanting packages from these custom repos, or only in certain cirucmstances? |
| 05:38.53 | velix | somiaj: hmm. I like to have interactive control whether to get a file from one of those repositories. |
| 05:39.28 | velix | Pinning might make this impossible? |
| 05:39.33 | somiaj | I'm not sure the best way to deal with your use case. Would apt install pkg1=ver1 pkg2=ver2 ... work? |
| 05:39.46 | velix | Oh that sounds interesting, I'll try. |
| 05:40.04 | somiaj | I think apt supports that sysntax, if not aptitude does |
| 05:40.47 | somiaj | velix: pinning is a way to override what apt selects as default due to version numbers |
| 05:41.11 | velix | somiaj: Yeah, but both repositories could make backports of the same package with the same build number :D |
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| 05:42.10 | somiaj | so you have two packages with the exact same version number that are not the same? |
| 05:42.42 | velix | Not right now, but it could happen. |
| 05:42.47 | somiaj | I would avoid that |
| 05:42.57 | velix | Sure, those aren't my repositories ;) |
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| 05:44.06 | somiaj | you may have to manually change the pinning for certain repos for these edge cases where version number or upping the pinning of a single repo with -t doens't work. But according to the man page, it appears you can't list more than one repo |
| 05:45.01 | velix | Okay, no problem then. I'll play around with it. Thanks for your ideas. |
| 05:45.07 | somiaj | from the man page "In short, this option lets you have simple control .." I think it assuming if you need more complicated control you would actually use pinning |
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| 08:43.07 | invra | any way to install alacritty on buster or i have to compile from source? |
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| 08:48.13 | ansimita | invra: looks like you have to compile (the latest release) from source with a rustc newer than one that's provided for buster |
| 08:48.31 | invra | uh no then too much risk |
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| 08:49.08 | invra | ansimita: do you know a bit awesomewm? how would i make it so i can launch for example synaptic? i need some kind of gksu or something? |
| 08:49.46 | ansimita | invra: unfortunately I am not familiar with awesomewm |
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| 09:32.53 | braingain | how do i debug ssh refusing the connection for a particular user? |
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| 09:36.02 | ansimita | braingain: I'd start by passing -v, -vv, -vvv to the ssh command |
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| 09:38.21 | flayer | have you tried replacing the user? |
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| 10:04.07 | algun | Hey. How come there’s no Android Studio in the repo? What’s against DFSG about it (except perhaps the binary that Google builds)? |
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| 10:39.50 | petn-randall | algun: I'd just assume that no one has packaged it yet. |
| 10:41.10 | algun | Yet? Hehe, you’re optimistic. It’s 6 years old. |
| 10:41.20 | algun | But thanks for the answer. |
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| 10:44.01 | petn-randall | algun: If it gets packaged has more to do with if someone is interested in it, not necessarily age. |
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| 10:46.26 | algun | petn-randall: surely you are not suggesting Debian users are disinterested in Android development? Android Studio is the very primary tool for it. |
| 10:46.53 | algun | I would say it depends on the interest in packaging and mintenance. |
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| 10:58.37 | petn-randall | algun: Yes, that's what I meant. |
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| 11:22.58 | braingain | ansimita: it doesnt yield. connection is refused on a tcp level |
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| 11:23.29 | braingain | flayer: what do you mean, replacing? i can login as root or other user. this useris supposed to be a jail |
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| 11:25.24 | petn-randall | braingain: Can you paste the complete output? If more than 2 lines -> https://paste.debian.net |
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| 12:25.53 | velix | Anyone with an idea, why `/etc/skel/.bashrc` only allows `color_prompt=yes` for `xterm-color`? `xterm-256color` is a legit setting, but gets ignored here. |
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| 12:34.04 | Lope | I've created a one-shot systemd service. sometimes it starts, sometimes it doesn't. It's driving me nuts. |
| 12:34.19 | Lope | Will paste in a sec. |
| 12:39.04 | Lope | https://paste.debian.net/1144318/ |
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| 12:42.20 | petn-randall | Lope: What does the /foo.sh do? I've just recently had a similar problem and noticed that the network* targets are more complex than you'd think. |
| 12:42.58 | Lope | petn-randall, weird, it seems to not start on a fresh boot, but starts after a reboot... |
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| 12:44.49 | Lope | petn-randall, it does all sorts of stuff that I need to do to init the server. |
| 12:45.19 | Lope | petn-randall, I could separate it into stuff that can happen before network, which is 99% of it. and stuff that can happen after network. |
| 12:45.29 | Lope | but that doesn't fix it if it doesn't run the stuff after network. |
| 12:45.46 | Lope | doesn't solve the problem, just 99% solves it. |
| 12:46.05 | Lope | (just saying in theory, I've not tried this) |
| 12:46.37 | petn-randall | Lope: Thing is, after "network" can mean very different things. |
| 12:47.51 | petn-randall | Lope: After=network.target does not mean it'll run when a working internet connection is up. |
| 12:49.07 | petn-randall | That's why I'm asking for details on the script. |
| 12:49.23 | Lope | petn-randall, the only network thing i need is to mount a nfs |
| 12:49.38 | Lope | but I put all kinds of crap in this script which changes over time |
| 12:49.53 | Lope | so i would like it to generally run when the network is operational |
| 12:50.11 | Lope | petn-randall, seems like a simple enough desire? |
| 12:50.49 | petn-randall | Lope: Then you need "After=network-online.target" in the [Unit] section, and "WantedBy=network-online.target" in the [Install] section. |
| 12:51.02 | petn-randall | And you'll risk it never running when the network config fails. |
| 12:51.33 | Lope | petn-randall, does network online mean that it has a working internet connection? |
| 12:51.38 | petn-randall | yes |
| 12:51.40 | Lope | or just that the port is active? |
| 12:51.51 | Lope | I just want port is active, because it's a NFS lan thing |
| 12:52.01 | Lope | I still want it to work even if the internet is down. |
| 12:52.02 | petn-randall | Lope: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/NetworkTarget/ |
| 12:52.19 | Lope | the point is though, that the service is not running |
| 12:52.29 | Lope | so making the condition more restrictive isn't going to help |
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| 12:53.09 | petn-randall | Lope: "network.target" is not a target that gets reached on default systems. |
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| 13:02.27 | annadane | is there a reason why thunar isn't keeping my file association for .jar, as java -jar? and i can't find it in the mime type editor either so i can't edit it like that |
| 13:02.51 | petn-randall | Lope: Also one pitfall I noticed during testing is that just updating your unit file is not enough. You need to run `systemctl reenable <unit>` for it to update the symlinks from the [Install] section. |
| 13:04.38 | Lope | petn-randall, thanks for your help bud. I unfortunately had 2 services with the same name on different servers, and they had different Before and After conditions. the one that was having issues had some rather impossible conditions. |
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| 13:05.06 | Lope | petn-randall, what happens if you say Before and then list services that don't exist (have not been installed/setup yet) would that prevent startup? |
| 13:06.20 | petn-randall | Lope: Not sure. If there's an After= condition that doesn't exist I'd expect it not to start, though. |
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| 13:32.59 | pileofstraw | I thought perhaps I had solved my problem of random infrequent hard lockups in 300 deployed NUC7i5BNK machines by discovering that the nonfree firmware had not been deployed, so I puppetized it out to all the machines |
| 13:33.04 | pileofstraw | and 2 more have since locked up |
| 13:33.11 | pileofstraw | crushing my soul like peanut shells |
| 13:34.08 | pileofstraw | wondering if anyone has any ideas on finding the source of a hard lockup given that zero logs are generated and it requires an in-person hard reset to fix |
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| 13:35.12 | Agiofws | hello |
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| 13:36.36 | Agiofws | i've stumbled upon a package inconsistancy trying to install wine on debian buster it all ends down to a package that is not supported in buster anymore and i don't know how to go about it |
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| 13:37.28 | overlaws | how can i find a complete list of gui terminal emulators for xfce ? xfce terminal has a lot of problems |
| 13:40.02 | Agiofws | anyone please take a look at https://paste.debian.net/1144342/ |
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| 13:40.29 | Agiofws | it all comes down to libunistring0:i386 is not available, but is referred to by another package. " |
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| 13:42.31 | petn-randall | !bat |
| 13:42.32 | dpkg | [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 13:42.42 | petn-randall | Agiofws: Can you provide all of the above in a single paste? ^^^ |
| 13:42.43 | Agiofws | can anyone tell me why wine in buster depends on libunistring0:i386 while that package is not supported in buster? |
| 13:43.31 | Agiofws | petn-randall, ok than you i'll try to provide |
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| 13:45.01 | petn-randall | I guess because wine-staging-i386 doesn't exist in Debian it's hard to support it. |
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| 13:46.32 | annadane | for wine packages outside of debian, winehq has good instructions |
| 13:46.35 | annadane | i would probably ask them |
| 13:46.46 | annadane | #winehq is their channel, for example |
| 13:47.14 | petn-randall | Agiofws: Is there a reason you're not using the wine packages in Debian? |
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| 13:50.04 | rozenglass | overlaws: xfce-terminal is developed by the xfce project, but you can run any other terminal emulator while using xfce. The arch-wiki contains a big list, many of which are available debian https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/list_of_applications#Terminal_emulators |
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| 13:51.39 | annadane | overlaws, out of curiosity, what problems? |
| 13:51.53 | Agiofws | nope no reason at all |
| 13:52.01 | rozenglass | overlaws: although, many terminal emulators are not as user-friendly as xfce-terminal, so it might be worth trying to solve the issues you have with the xfce-terminal |
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| 13:53.09 | petn-randall | Agiofws: Then I'd remove the packages you've found, and just install the one that comes with Debian. |
| 13:53.14 | annadane | hm, surprising. most people who use wine outside of debian do it for specific reasons like game performance |
| 13:53.23 | annadane | i guess the question is a legitimate one after all |
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| 13:55.46 | Agiofws | petn-randall, https://paste.debian.net/1144346 |
| 13:57.17 | EdePopede | overlaws, also: debtags search 'role::program && x11::terminal' |
| 13:57.32 | EdePopede | debtags are better than sliced bread! |
| 13:58.21 | petn-randall | Agiofws: I'd remove the wine repos you have there, remove any wine packages, and then just install regular wine from Debian. |
| 13:59.09 | Agiofws | in sources.list ? |
| 13:59.27 | petn-randall | Agiofws: Yes, and in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* |
| 14:00.52 | rozenglass | EdePopede: I tried the debtags web UI before recommending the arch-wiki, but searching for x11::terminal, found results like a backgammon game and an xrdp client, and obvious things missing, like konsole and rxvt-unicode |
| 14:01.18 | Agiofws | deb https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/debian/ buster main even that line petn-randall ? |
| 14:01.23 | rozenglass | but generally, debtags are useful in my experience too |
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| 14:03.44 | Agiofws | petn-randall, https://paste.debian.net/1144348/ |
| 14:05.19 | petn-randall | Agiofws: Even that line. All wine repos, actually. |
| 14:05.37 | Agiofws | maybe i need wine 5 for this but i'll give it a try |
| 14:05.53 | petn-randall | Agiofws: The package name is just "wine". |
| 14:05.58 | Agiofws | yip |
| 14:07.33 | EdePopede | rozenglass: the correct combination can be tricky sometimes, and unluckily there are also a lot of packages missing some tags or not using it at all |
| 14:09.56 | EdePopede | rozenglass: usually i request some packages i remember and then look what they have in common ;) |
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| 14:12.36 | invra | suggestion on how to get alacritty on busteR? |
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| 14:14.29 | annadane | probably just compile from source |
| 14:14.36 | annadane | ,v alacritty |
| 14:14.37 | judd | No package named 'alacritty' was found in amd64. |
| 14:14.44 | invra | https://github.com/alacritty/alacritty/blob/master/INSTALL.md#debianubuntu |
| 14:14.51 | invra | they say to use cargo install --git https://github.com/alacritty/alacritty |
| 14:15.18 | annadane | i forget what uses cargo |
| 14:15.34 | invra | https://dpaste.org/15Fk it fails to build tho |
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| 14:17.06 | invra | http://ix.io/2kt2 |
| 14:17.17 | invra | lol x.chocolate(); // error: no method named `chocolate` found for type `Mouth` |
| 14:17.28 | invra | is it trolling me |
| 14:18.23 | Agiofws | i can't install wine32 depends on libwine:i386 which depends on libldap-2.4-2:i386 ... |
| 14:18.48 | annadane | invra, perhaps you can ask them? open an issue on their github page |
| 14:21.34 | braingain | petn-randall: https://paste.debian.net/plain/144350 |
| 14:22.30 | Agiofws | petn-randall, if i go down the rabbit hole trying to install wine32 it also ends up to libunistring0:i386 commenting out the external repos |
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| 14:27.56 | annadane | braingain, your link doesn't exist |
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| 15:09.01 | *** topic/#debian is Current Debian release is buster, 10.3 point release (needs dist-upgrade) /msg dpkg 10.3; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch; /msg dpkg 9.12 (needs dist-upgrade) | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 15:09.32 | pileofstraw | i would love if there was a guide to untangle the insanely complicated nature of having the right intel drivers installed on Buster |
| 15:09.40 | pileofstraw | Haven't felt like this much of an idiot in...at least hours |
| 15:10.45 | braingain | https://paste.debian.net/plain/1144350 |
| 15:10.48 | braingain | sorry |
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| 15:11.45 | braingain | pileofstraw: most of intel stuff is already supported by the kernel. theres a microcode package but other than that.. what kind of drivers do you want to install? |
| 15:12.54 | pileofstraw | I am running a kaby lake system and asking in #intel-gfx, the answer to "should I be running something more involved than stock 4.19 kernel with firmware-misc-nonfree" was "Oh my yes." |
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| 15:13.19 | pileofstraw | Also whether to run xserver-xorg-video-intel vs xserver-xorg-core |
| 15:13.25 | pileofstraw | i just feel lost! |
| 15:13.56 | joepublic | did the "oh my yes" people recommend anything specific? If not, nothing to install |
| 15:14.28 | braingain | kaby lake is '2017ish.. is your screen black tho? |
| 15:16.33 | pileofstraw | the central problem I am trying to solve is random intermittent hard lockups requiring a physical reset with no logging of any kind |
| 15:16.55 | pileofstraw | Screen is not black, it locks up with content showing in X. In fact the time and date show, so I can see when it happens. |
| 15:17.46 | pileofstraw | I kind of just have nothing to go on. I discovered these machines didn't have the firmware-misc-nonfree package so I put it on all 300 machines, but the lockups continue. |
| 15:17.47 | lwp | pileofstraw, xserver-xorg-video-intel depends on xserver-xorg-core, so if you need the -intel package, you will be running both |
| 15:18.22 | lwp | ,i xserver-xorg-video-intel |
| 15:18.24 | judd | Package xserver-xorg-video-intel (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: X.Org X server -- Intel i8xx, i9xx display driver. Version: 2:2.99.917+git20180925-2; Size: 1606.2k; Installed: 3202k; Homepage: https://www.x.org/ |
| 15:18.32 | tomreyn | pileofstraw: did you run a different kernel version and / or debian (or other linux distro, or even other OS) on this system fine previously (and how long ago was that)? |
| 15:18.42 | pileofstraw | lwp: https://wiki.debian.org/GraphicsCard describes uninstalling xserver-xorg-video-intel, is that not relevant to this? |
| 15:19.03 | pileofstraw | tomreyn: these were previously running stretch and I remote dist-upgraded them to solve a possibly-related problem with a totally different system. |
| 15:19.08 | pileofstraw | that problem is documented here: |
| 15:19.55 | pileofstraw | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/566141/intermittent-lockup-right-as-kernel-loads-on-debian-hours-to-reproduce |
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| 15:20.23 | pileofstraw | Moving to Buster stopped this specific lockup from happening, but now it seems to just lock up after boot and when X is running |
| 15:20.34 | tomreyn | so you're saying you release upgraded multiple systems with the same hardware configurations from stretch to buster, because a different system than the one freezing on buster experienced these lockups previously? |
| 15:21.19 | pileofstraw | Of the 300 systems I have involved here, 1-3 of them lock up every day. So far over the course of this dozens of them have locked up. |
| 15:21.29 | pileofstraw | So I hypothesized this problem was common to all of the identical systems. |
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| 15:21.35 | joepublic | ouch |
| 15:21.50 | pileofstraw | it's not fun and very expensive and very humbling. |
| 15:22.37 | braingain | my Kaby Lake Mac also hangs up from time to time 1/14 days |
| 15:22.54 | tomreyn | hmm that's not very reproducible, but at least it is. |
| 15:23.11 | lwp | pileofstraw, I don't know the answer to your question about uninstalling |
| 15:23.34 | pileofstraw | So the problem described in the above stackexchange I managed to reproduce by putting 9 of these machines on a bench and cron-rebooting them every 2 minutes as it happened during soft reboots |
| 15:23.43 | pileofstraw | And it would take about 24h before all 9 would be crashed. |
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| 15:24.00 | pileofstraw | But THIS problem is just while running X. So I can't speed up the timeline |
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| 15:24.38 | pileofstraw | I am looking into getting systemd to persist its journal across all 300 machines, in case there is a slim chance I get a crumb of logging in systemd that I'm not currently getting in the traditional /var/log files |
| 15:24.47 | pileofstraw | but I feel like that'll be 15 hours of work to learn nothing |
| 15:24.58 | tomreyn | i assume firmwares are all up to date? |
| 15:25.35 | joepublic | pileofstraw, is this helpful information? https://hobo.house/2018/05/18/fix-for-intel-i915-gpu-freeze-on-recent-linux-kernels/ |
| 15:25.46 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: there are two intel video drivers as far as I understand, the xserver-xorg-video-intel one, and a built-in one in core. If you install the *-intel one, then it is used by default. If you uninstall it, then the built-in one is used instead. The built-in driver is the recommended one in most cases. |
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| 15:26.37 | pileofstraw | tomreyn: the most recent thing I did was puppet-deploy firmware-misc-nonfree to all the machines, dmesg was definitely reporting that it was probably missing firmware while loading the i915 kernel module |
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| 15:26.41 | pileofstraw | but since then I've had more machines lock up. |
| 15:26.51 | pileofstraw | joepublic: checking |
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| 15:27.44 | tomreyn | unfortunately intel linux drivers are discomposing lately, not just the gpu ones. and then there are the rapid less tested microcode updates. |
| 15:27.49 | tomreyn | had you tried dis_ucode_ldr ? |
| 15:28.17 | tomreyn | that'd make them fall back to the ucode that's embedded in the mainboard firmware ("BIOS") |
| 15:29.36 | pileofstraw | tomreyn: from here https://wiki.debian.org/Microcode#Working_around_boot_problems_caused_by_microcode_updates |
| 15:29.48 | pileofstraw | this suggests that the microcode problems would manifest at the beginning of the boot process |
| 15:30.03 | pileofstraw | given that these new lockups are after boot, could this still be the cause? |
| 15:30.05 | tomreyn | on the other hand keeping these full mainboard firmwares (and not just the microcodes) updated *may* also help |
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| 15:30.42 | pileofstraw | joepublic: so far this is very up my alley and I wish I had found this sooner, thank you |
| 15:30.56 | tomreyn | hmm you're right, the ucodes are less likely to be the cause of the new lockup, but more likely of the old ones (locking up during initrd load) |
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| 15:31.55 | pileofstraw | I suppose those ucodes updated when I dist-upgraded to buster |
| 15:32.10 | pileofstraw | joepublic: ah crap his solution was "new motherboard" lol |
| 15:32.17 | pileofstraw | lemme run it by intel, replacing 300 machines... |
| 15:32.23 | joepublic | I was thinking more of the kernel command line options |
| 15:34.20 | pileofstraw | joepublic: so its definitely running the xorg drivers and not the intel i915 driver |
| 15:34.23 | pileofstraw | that's interesting |
| 15:34.34 | pileofstraw | worth a try, I could probably puppet this with an Xsession.d custom rules file |
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| 15:34.41 | pileofstraw | maybe, anyway |
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| 15:35.43 | pileofstraw | rozenglass: thank you for this explanation, I will remove xserver-xorg-video-intel from all these machines (after testing) |
| 15:35.44 | tomreyn | i915 is the kernel module, xorg drivers are 2d drivers for X, they are orthogonal, can't be directly compared |
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| 15:38.06 | tomreyn | this may be useful for further debugging https://www.linuxembedded.fr/2019/12/storing-crash-data-of-the-linux-kernel-for-post-crash-debugging/ |
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| 15:38.45 | tomreyn | pstore is handy on uefi systems, and this should be uefi systems |
| 15:38.54 | pileofstraw | definitely uefi |
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| 15:39.38 | pileofstraw | tomreyn: the i915 vs xorg driver delineation is one of the things i am finding so confusing, i need a better primer on how these components interrelate |
| 15:40.24 | pileofstraw | not only that but i keep reading that i should be using mesa |
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| 15:44.12 | tomreyn | mesa is the generic open source graphics stack. you are using it whenever you use intel or amd gpus with open source kernel drivers. |
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| 15:45.09 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: mesa is basically an opengl implementation for 3D accelerated graphics. Unless you are using Nvidia proprietary drivers, then you are most likely using mesa. |
| 15:45.11 | tomreyn | mesa is needed for 3d graphics acceleration |
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| 15:47.08 | johnfg | hi folks! |
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| 15:48.06 | tomreyn | there also vulkan, though, to makes things even more complicated for you ;) |
| 15:48.07 | johnfg | Just wanted to say thanks to those who helped me out yesterday. I've got /var moved to another logical volume, and the system is running properly. Just needed to correct a few mistakes. |
| 15:48.22 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: honestly, I think getting xorg and general journal logs from the previous locked boot is most likely your best chance by now. |
| 15:49.13 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: and in general, persisting logs across reboots even if for a few boots back, is a good investment anyway imho |
| 15:50.35 | rozenglass | I feel like keeping a few boots back of journal should be the default, I'm ignorant to why it's not |
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| 15:59.30 | pileofstraw | rozenglass: so currently my logging is /var/log/syslog, kern.log, messages, those typical files |
| 15:59.48 | pileofstraw | Is there any reason to believe that systemd persistent journalling will capture lockup logging better than these files? |
| 16:00.10 | pileofstraw | That is what I most want, ANY kind of kernel panic or error trace for what the heck is going on here |
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| 16:03.31 | pileofstraw | I'm sure I looked already but I may be able to get xorg logs from the last one that we restarted, one moment |
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| 16:04.51 | quarterback | I'm getting messages in debian to install security updates everyday. Is it really necessary? Can I just turn the message off? I have nftables intalled. It seems like the system is secure. |
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| 16:05.10 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: do you have syslog going back to previous boots? |
| 16:05.18 | quarterback | it seems there is no option to disable security update messages in debian buster. |
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| 16:05.29 | pileofstraw | Yes I did. there is a big huge syslog hole between lockup and reset |
| 16:05.45 | rozenglass | oh |
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| 16:07.42 | quarterback | I must have used a testing repository in debian somewhere. |
| 16:08.39 | quarterback | How do I enable equalizer in pulse effects? All other options can be modified but the equalizer option is not highlighted. |
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| 16:08.52 | pileofstraw | rozenglass: final syslog messages on this particular machine are dhclient trying to DHCP on its wifi interface (which I am not using) and not getting anything |
| 16:09.09 | pileofstraw | That's Apr 28, 8:29pm |
| 16:09.21 | pileofstraw | Then the next line is Apr 29, 7:17pm when our tech was on site |
| 16:09.23 | somiaj | quarterback: Installing the security updates is suggested. It is often only one or two packages per update, and only targeted fixes to fix the security issues. These are all documented in the DSA annoucments. |
| 16:09.41 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: If you have syslog from previous boots, then I don't think persisting journald will you much more, as far as my experience they're almost identical on debian |
| 16:09.46 | quarterback | somiaj, I will take a look at that. Thanks. |
| 16:09.51 | pileofstraw | that is what I was afraid of. |
| 16:11.31 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: and the kern.log? do you have it from before the lockdown? what's near the end of it? |
| 16:12.29 | rozenglass | lockup* |
| 16:12.58 | somiaj | quarterback: https://www.debian.org/security/ -- there has been one a day recentally, but they don't always happen everyday |
| 16:13.09 | somiaj | quarterback: now debian has 60,000+ packages, not all DSA's apply to everyone |
| 16:13.23 | quarterback | somiaj, I don't know what DSA means. |
| 16:13.42 | somiaj | debian security annoucment, that packge tells you that and lists them back to april 02 |
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| 16:14.41 | pileofstraw | rozenglass: checking |
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| 16:17.21 | pileofstraw | rozenglass: last kern.log message is about perf interrupt taking too long and it was 8 hours prior to the lockup. |
| 16:19.36 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: try grepping for errors in both logs, see if anything might be significant |
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| 16:21.19 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: do you have Xorg logs? |
| 16:21.35 | pileofstraw | xorg by default stores this boot and the last boot, I think. So nope. |
| 16:21.43 | pileofstraw | but I will when my tech reboots the 2 that are currently locked up, ugh. |
| 16:21.59 | oxek | Should I install pylint using `apt install pylint` or `pip install pylint`? I don't really understand the distinction. |
| 16:22.57 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: if you are using debian 9+ then the Xserver can be run without root, and depending on how it's run the logs might be in the user's home (~/.local/share/xorg) instead of /var/log |
| 16:23.19 | somiaj | oxek: you should install the debian packages if you want it on your debian system. |
| 16:23.38 | somiaj | oxek: the difference is pylint packaged by debian is teted to work with debian, pylint from pip will install the latest version, which isn't fully tested. |
| 16:23.52 | somiaj | oxek: if using pip, you should really do this in a python virtual enviorment, and not use pip to install stuff on your system. |
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| 16:24.16 | oxek | ah, so whenever I have the option, I should use debian version? |
| 16:24.23 | oxek | and use pip for any venv? |
| 16:24.28 | rozenglass | oxek: `apt` is the official Debian package manager, `pip` is a python-specific package manager. `pip` is better used when developing python packages generally |
| 16:25.11 | rozenglass | oxek: yes, when you have the option it's best to use the debian version |
| 16:25.47 | somiaj | oxek: it depends on your use case, I woudln't use pip on your debian system. I would create a virtual enviorment if you need to install stuff either not in debian, or of different versions |
| 16:26.41 | oxek | My usecase is setting up vscode and wanting some linter. |
| 16:26.51 | oxek | So I guess pylint using apt it is |
| 16:26.51 | somiaj | getting in the habbit of using pip outside a debian system could lead to other issues depending on what you install with it |
| 16:27.32 | oxek | is it possible to use the debian versions of packages in the virtual environemnts? |
| 16:27.38 | somiaj | which is the main reason for virtual enviroments, to be able to isolate all the python libaries/programs you need for a specific action and have it be independent of your main system. |
| 16:28.03 | somiaj | I think so, but installing stuff with pip keeps it outside of the main system |
| 16:29.19 | rozenglass | oxek: Just don't use any global installation method using language-specific package managers (don't ever type sudo before them) I've had awful breakage back in the day because of that XD |
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| 16:31.03 | rozenglass | oxek: what I would sometimes do, is modify the config of the language-specifc package manager to install into my home directory instead of on a system-level. Then you can add the installation path to your $PATH environment variable, and you'd be able to use the binary tools almost like any other debian-specific package. |
| 16:31.34 | somiaj | rozenglass: that is the whole point of the python virtual enviroments I keep mentioning, you can install things there (they can be owned by a user or root) and be completely independent of the system. |
| 16:31.52 | pileofstraw | ok actionables: 1) check fresh xorg post-crash logging, 2) make X use the intel i915 driver, 3) update intel microcode |
| 16:31.53 | oxek | I'm just starting with this, so I don't yet understand fully what you wrote, but I am making a note of it. Thanks for trying to help. |
| 16:31.57 | pileofstraw | x 300 and then wait. |
| 16:32.26 | somiaj | pileofstraw: do you really want to use the i915 driver, most suggest using the modesetting driver these days (which talks to the kms i915 module) |
| 16:32.34 | oxek | I already know to not blindly use sudo when something doesn't work |
| 16:32.43 | somiaj | the xorg-video-intel really isn't needed and the modesetting driver is prefered is my understanding |
| 16:33.07 | somiaj | pileofstraw: also some intel cards need firmware, firmware-misc-nonfree I think is the package that has it |
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| 16:34.12 | rozenglass | somiaj: I haven't used any python virtual envs, so I'm not sure, can you call binaries inside the env from outside the env? Would it be safe to set a $PATH into the insides of a virtual env? I had the impression that the applications that create and handle the envs do other things to set it up. |
| 16:35.41 | somiaj | rozenglass: I would look them up, the whole point of them is to be able to have multiple enviorments with different versions of python packages, compeltely independent of the system |
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| 16:36.26 | annadane | yes you can call virtualenv binaries outside of it, it just has to be in your path |
| 16:36.27 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: 1) yup, that might be helpful, 2) I'm not sure what you mean here, do you want to re-install the xorg-video-intel drivers? 3) okay :) |
| 16:36.28 | oxek | to verify, I probably am never gonna need or want multiple independent versions of pylint, so installing it using apt should be what I want, yes? |
| 16:36.52 | pileofstraw | Got it, so rather than i915, uninstall xserver-xorg-video-intel on all machines. |
| 16:36.52 | rozenglass | annadane: oh, great. didn't know that. thanks |
| 16:37.00 | annadane | for what i use it goes in /usr/local which is already in the path by default and also overwrites the system version |
| 16:37.12 | annadane | or, well, takes precedence over |
| 16:37.26 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: I would give that a shot yes, but of course test it on one or two first |
| 16:37.54 | rozenglass | oxek: yes |
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| 16:38.21 | pileofstraw | Yeah I have five on the bench |
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| 16:38.54 | pileofstraw | Out of 300 machines if I have 1 fail per day then i am excited to see a failure in approximately...2.5 months |
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| 16:39.25 | rozenglass | annadane: yup that works too |
| 16:40.12 | somiaj | pileofstraw: if you have the modesetting driver, it should be used by default, so having xserver-xorg-video-intel installed won't matter. You can check the Xorg.0.log to see what driver is actually used, and provide a small xorg.conf.d/ snippit to force one over the other. There might be rare cases the intel driver works better, but most things aer switching to the generic modesetting driver and using kms |
| 16:40.18 | somiaj | standards, vs a single driver per gpu manufacture |
| 16:40.19 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: 300 machines sound like fun :) what do you use them for if you don't mind me asking |
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| 16:44.04 | rozenglass | somiaj: I don't know about the latest debian versions, but at some point early when the modsetting driver was newly being advertised, I clearly remember installing the -intel driver and it automatically taking precedence (reintroducing my screen-trearing issues). So checking the logs to confirm which one is loaded is probably good. uninstalling the -intel driver is 100% guaranteed to not have it loaded :P |
| 16:45.43 | somiaj | rozenglass: which is why I said you can check the Xorg.0.log file to see what driver is being loaded, and use an xorg.conf.d/ snippit to configure what one is used. |
| 16:46.05 | somiaj | personally I like having both installed, so I can compare the two, as somtimes the intel driver does work better, but less and less as times go on |
| 16:48.46 | invra | what package can provide a pule volume tray icon? |
| 16:49.53 | somiaj | there are a few, apt search can find them, I'll go look up the one I use to use |
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| 16:50.28 | somiaj | pasystray is what I think I use to use |
| 16:53.09 | invra | somiaj: it doesnt handle the volume keyboard keys? |
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| 16:55.44 | somiaj | this should be done by your de/wm not a systray icon |
| 16:59.33 | pileofstraw | rozenglass: digital signage, advertising. |
| 16:59.39 | pileofstraw | these are 300 machines out of over 3000 we run |
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| 17:06.48 | pileofstraw | rozenglass: https://pastebin.com/nZhcdEUF |
| 17:06.58 | pileofstraw | based on this xorg log it looks like it is already using modesetting |
| 17:07.23 | pileofstraw | So I have no idea what best practice is at this point. If it's already using the generic modesetting driver and locking up, I guess I need to change something. |
| 17:09.43 | somiaj | do you have the firmware installed, you could try the intel driver instead |
| 17:10.03 | somiaj | one thing you could do is dmesg | grep -i firmware, and see if the i915 driver complains about not being able to load firmware |
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| 17:10.22 | pileofstraw | I puppet installed firmware-misc-nonfree to all 300 machines but it did not stop the lockups |
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| 17:10.36 | pileofstraw | I did that, it was complaining before I installed the package, now its not. |
| 17:10.49 | pileofstraw | Seems to be using the firmware correctly. No idea if it's "new" enough firmware :/ |
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| 17:16.16 | Azathoth2533 | Hello! Is there a way to transition /var/run to /run and then remove one of them? |
| 17:17.14 | somiaj | on my systems /var/run links to /run |
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| 17:17.43 | somiaj | so in essence the transition is falicited via a link for software that still uses /var/run instead of /run |
| 17:18.16 | oxek | hmm, I spent some time debugging this weird problem that I installed pylint using apt yet vscode did not see it installed |
| 17:18.28 | oxek | apparently, pylint is still python2 in debian-stable |
| 17:18.48 | oxek | so I need to do `apt -t buster-backports install pylint` |
| 17:18.55 | somiaj | so install pylint3 |
| 17:19.03 | somiaj | in debian python3 packages will all have a 3 on them |
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| 17:19.14 | Azathoth2533 | Yes. It is linked in mine as well. But I mean to remove /var/run. |
| 17:19.31 | oxek | somiaj: yeah I was confused by the guide on the pylint website where it just called it pylint |
| 17:19.55 | somiaj | Azathoth2533: what would you gain from that? The only way to do that is to ensure that all software that uses /run to store data uses /run and not /var/run, and due to this link not all software could be updated. |
| 17:21.08 | somiaj | I personally don't see what removing a link will achive, besides possibly breaking software that didn't move from /var/run to /run as standards evolved |
| 17:21.18 | Azathoth2533 | I have installed bedrock on top of debian. And it appears it only needs one of them. |
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| 17:22.06 | paradigm | Azathoth2533: Bedrock should create that symlink for you |
| 17:22.10 | Azathoth2533 | I am instructed to keep one of them and then repair the system. |
| 17:22.36 | somiaj | you only have one of them, the link is just to ensure that software that is still using /var/run puts everyting in /run (a single location) |
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| 17:22.51 | somiaj | without the link you may have stuff in two separate locations (again totally depends on what software you use) |
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| 17:23.35 | paradigm | Azathoth2533: On my Bedrock+Debian box, /var/run is a symlink to /run, which is a directory. That's probably what you want to mimic. |
| 17:24.44 | paradigm | I'm guessing your system somehow has both /var/run and /run as real directories; I have no idea how that happened. Presumably you can remove the directory at /var/run and make it a symlink to /run (or just remove /var/run and reboot, in which case Bedrock should create that symlink) |
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| 17:25.37 | Azathoth2533 | @paradigm I will try that. And reply. |
| 17:26.13 | Azathoth2533 | @somiaj Thanks. |
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| 17:26.55 | somiaj | for a running system you may want to copy /var/run to /run frist before turining it to a link (or do this form a live system where the data in /var/run may not affect a running program) |
| 17:27.31 | somiaj | and yes if /var/run is not a link, something is setup incorrectly, the link is what makes everything use a central location |
| 17:28.18 | oxek | bedrock sounds like quite a strange "distro". First time I hear of anyone trying to do such a thing. |
| 17:28.34 | paradigm | indeed it is |
| 17:29.05 | somiaj | oh bedrock isn't even debian? |
| 17:29.16 | somiaj | in the future, you should not use #debian for based on debian support. |
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| 17:30.22 | paradigm | For Azathoth2533's purpose, Bedrock is kind of like a chroot manager, and he's got debian in a chroot; it's not wholly unfitting. But yes, #bedrock probably would have been a better place to ask. |
| 17:30.35 | oxek | I suppose debian can be the starting point for bedrock |
| 17:30.44 | paradigm | nods |
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| 17:32.45 | Azathoth2533 | Removing /var/run and rebooting did not work. |
| 17:33.04 | somiaj | ahh okay, yea we support the actual container/chroot, though in this case something happened on the creation level if it isn't creating it to debian's standards. |
| 17:33.19 | somiaj | Azathoth2533: you needed to make /var/run a link to /run, my guess is software creates that directory if it didn't exist |
| 17:34.34 | paradigm | Bedrock just uses debootstrap to set it up. I can't reproduce a difficulty there, it works fine for me. |
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| 17:35.53 | Azathoth2533 | @somiaj I have both of them present. And they do contain similar files. How do I symlink /var/run to /run? Or see if it already is? |
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| 17:36.18 | somiaj | ls -ld /var/run -- what is the output |
| 17:36.31 | somiaj | maybe it has been a sysmlink this whole time and you didn't realize it |
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| 17:38.03 | Azathoth2533 | @somiaj drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 May 2 12:30 /var/run |
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| 17:38.35 | somiaj | yea that is a directory, so you will want to remove that directory and then 'ln -fs /run /var/' |
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| 17:41.28 | Azathoth2533 | @somiaj I removed it. The command shows nothing. |
| 17:41.56 | somiaj | that is a good thing, now 'ls -ld /var/run' |
| 17:42.07 | somiaj | in linux commands that don't output ran scuessfuly |
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| 17:43.37 | Azathoth2533 | It worked. I think I transitioned from /var/run to /run from the output. |
| 17:43.49 | pileofstraw | After reading a lot about intel-microcode I am going to install it on 300 machines and see if that gives me some stability. I think thats the best I got right now. |
| 17:43.58 | pileofstraw | my cpu is listed on the microcode update guidance |
| 17:44.14 | somiaj | Azathoth2533: yup, what the link does is make it so /run and /var/run are effiectivally the same location, but applications can use either. |
| 17:44.26 | somiaj | pileofstraw: are these really new machines? |
| 17:44.39 | somiaj | pileofstraw: also 300 machines, is this a lab, wondering why you are using xorg on so many machines? |
| 17:45.35 | somiaj | pileofstraw: note you may also want to see if a firmware update for the machines is available, you probably can't deploy this, but firmware updates will contain new microcodes, and maybe other fixes to the firmware fo the machines |
| 17:45.54 | somiaj | (by firmware I mean what use to be called bios, you get from the manifacture) |
| 17:46.22 | pileofstraw | I'm sure they have Intel "bios" updates as they've been in the field for quite a while. To do that would involve recalling them. |
| 17:46.37 | pileofstraw | They are all NUC7i5BNK machines, not a lab. they are deployed across Canada. |
| 17:46.43 | pileofstraw | digital signage machines |
| 17:47.33 | pileofstraw | So some were purchased recently, in the last six or nine months, but this particular model was launched Q1 2017 |
| 17:48.15 | somiaj | ahh yea, unless you have local tech's firwmare updates will be not possible. microcode will address cpu issues, but you could have other issues. |
| 17:48.51 | pileofstraw | other issues that the microcode will not address, or do you mean that a microcode update will cause other issues? |
| 17:49.02 | somiaj | If you have some of them locally you could see and try firmware updates, and if that works maybe think about how to get a local tech to slowly upgrade them. Hopefully the microcode works. You could also try backport kernel/firmware, but I would avoid this if you can for security issues. |
| 17:49.04 | pileofstraw | fwiw these machines have a variety of bios versions on them. |
| 17:49.15 | Azathoth2533 | @somiaj I am again asked to remove one of the directories. Is there any way I can remove /var/run entirely? |
| 17:49.23 | somiaj | pileofstraw: the micorcode update will only affect the cpus, if there were other firmware issues (acpi, etc) you can't do this user land. |
| 17:49.41 | somiaj | Azathoth2533: why? There is no point, you only have one directory and one linke. |
| 17:50.26 | somiaj | Azathoth2533: some software still uses /var/run, what the link does is ensure that such software stores its run data in /run, I see no reason you need to remove that link, the link takes up basically 0 space, and allows applications to use /var/run to put data in /run without rebuilding the softweare |
| 17:50.33 | Azathoth2533 | @somiaj Why am I notified at init to keep only one of them. |
| 17:51.18 | somiaj | I don't know, on debian there is a link, and I have never seen the message you ahve seen. |
| 17:51.24 | somiaj | Azathoth2533: what is the output of 'ls -ld /var/log' |
| 17:51.35 | somiaj | arg 'ls -ld /var/un' |
| 17:51.36 | pileofstraw | somiaj: makes perfect sense. Short of recalling them all or spending a hundred tech hours I will have to take whatever fixes I can get. I just wish this was more reproducible. |
| 17:51.37 | somiaj | arg 'ls -ld /var/run' |
| 17:52.07 | somiaj | pileofstraw: yea, I would start with the microcode and help. Why is xorg running on these machines? do people actually locally use xorg at all? |
| 17:53.43 | oxek | on a similar note, anyone know if debian has a plan to change the mountpoint of /boot/efi to simply /efi? |
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| 17:54.15 | Azathoth2533 | @somiaj drwxr-xr-x 12 root root 4096 May 2 12:47 /var/log |
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| 17:54.37 | somiaj | Azathoth2533: I do not know why the link deepds on dsiappearing. |
| 17:54.58 | pileofstraw | nothing is used locally on these machines, they are all remotely installed in signs. I feel my phrasing will be wrong but X is what's showing our ad stack on the attached LCD displays |
| 17:55.01 | somiaj | Azathoth2533: I dont think you can delete that directory and then ln -fs /run /var/, while the system is running nativelly. |
| 17:55.21 | pileofstraw | we're using X as the window manager to output ads. |
| 17:55.43 | somiaj | pileofstraw: ahh I see, I was just courious why you were running xorg and hoping you could just remove it, but that makes sense. |
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| 17:56.29 | Azathoth2533 | @somiaj lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 May 2 12:40 /var/run --> /run |
| 17:56.59 | Azathoth2533 | Here's the output for ls -ld /var/run. |
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| 17:57.30 | somiaj | Azathoth2533: oh yea, you ran my misstyped command, that is better, yea /var/run -> /run is a link, I do not know why you are being told to remove one. You want that link there. |
| 17:57.34 | pileofstraw | somiaj: not until i get our ascii-based ad platform finished =) |
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| 17:58.23 | somiaj | pileofstraw: well hopefully the microcode helps, and these are intel machines not some arm device? Anyways, I am not use to such hardware, so I can't really be of much more help |
| 17:59.01 | Azathoth2533 | @somiaj It's fine. Thank you for your help. |
| 17:59.27 | pileofstraw | somiaj: you have been a great help, thank you. they are all intel i5-7260U processors, 7th gen kaby lake. |
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| 18:00.25 | somiaj | pileofstraw: you do have firmware-misc-nonfree installed to right? |
| 18:00.58 | somiaj | anyways if microcode doesn't help, you could try the firmware/kernel from backports, but I would try to stick witht he stock kernel if at all possible. |
| 18:01.15 | pileofstraw | Yes, on Thursday I rolled that out to every machine, and was crushed when a few crashed Friday and today. |
| 18:01.36 | somiaj | assuming you did reboot after the install? |
| 18:01.43 | pileofstraw | Every machine reboots every night, yeah |
| 18:02.14 | pileofstraw | I should state openly that I am not even positive this crash is due to video. I just cannot think of many things that would hard-lock a debian system and produce absolutely no logging output. |
| 18:02.24 | johnjay | is there a relatively bugfree way to start something on graphical login? |
| 18:02.27 | pileofstraw | that leads me to think its something low level |
| 18:02.29 | johnjay | i'm trying .xsessionrc atm |
| 18:02.42 | johnjay | is systemd the "correct" way for that? |
| 18:02.52 | somiaj | pileofstraw: crashes often produce no output beause the crash happens before there is time to log. |
| 18:03.14 | somiaj | johnjay: usually you use autostart features of the DE/WM you use |
| 18:03.24 | pileofstraw | but many crashes are in the form of a kernel panic, right? at least producing output to stdout? |
| 18:03.28 | johnjay | somiaj: technically that's true but redshift is not really a feature of a window manager |
| 18:03.34 | johnjay | it's just an X11 type program |
| 18:03.42 | johnjay | so i put redshift& in my .xsessionrc and i'm hoping it works |
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| 18:04.52 | somiaj | johnjay: do you want this to run on the display manager? even .xsessionrc won't run until the user logins |
| 18:05.19 | somiaj | pileofstraw: depends on the crash, but kernelpanics dont' often log, and some crashes are just a hard freeze, not all are kernel panics |
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| 18:05.31 | paradigm | Azathoth2533: to be clear, that message you're seeing when booting is from Bedrock, not Debian. If you successfully made /var/run a symlink to run and you're still seeing that message, the issue may be on Bedrock's end, and #bedrock would be a more suitable place to ask. |
| 18:06.06 | pileofstraw | fair. yeah this one hard locks on whatever X is showing at that instant, and openSSH (and presumably all networking) dies |
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| 18:06.19 | somiaj | pileofstraw: the fact that this is happening on multiple machines, i would almost suggest check the memeory, random lockups/freezes can be due to bad memeory. |
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| 18:06.40 | somiaj | but I would highly doubt all the machines have the same bad memeory |
| 18:06.58 | pileofstraw | I have run memtest86+ on multiple machines, which is of limited use |
| 18:07.25 | pileofstraw | i'm not sure if you saw the stackexchange link I posted but when I was diagnosing the boot issue I also changed memory and could still reproduce it. |
| 18:07.31 | pileofstraw | but maybe that's unrelated. |
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| 18:08.26 | somiaj | well I'm not sure what is best, maybe 1) try micrcocode, 2) get a single machine locally, update firmware. If it is firmware, you are just gonna have to figure out how to get a tech to each system. |
| 18:08.59 | somiaj | The only other thing you may want to try is build a custom kernel and disable features you are not using. |
| 18:09.16 | somiaj | though this really isn't needed in this day and age, but it is something you could test on a local machine just to try to help diagnose things |
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| 18:18.57 | pileofstraw | oof the idea of that is brutal. But I'll see if it comes to that. |
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| 18:29.40 | somiaj | pileofstraw: well best of luck, sounds like they are making you work for your pay! |
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| 18:33.46 | pileofstraw | somiaj: still better than when we deployed hundreds of SSDs that got hit by the sandforce bug eight years ago... |
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| 18:35.51 | a_flayer | haha |
| 18:35.58 | a_flayer | i mean, aww, sorry |
| 18:36.37 | pileofstraw | deploy enough machines and we'll get hit with everything that hits the industry, I suppose |
| 18:36.57 | rozenglass | yeah :) |
| 18:38.46 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: sorry I haven't looked at your xorg logs because pastebin is blocked in the country I'm in, and I don't have the laptop with tor/bridges/vpn on hand |
| 18:40.40 | johnjay | somiaj: ah i didn't know the distinction. i want it to run after i login |
| 18:40.48 | johnjay | so putting something in .xsessionrc makes Xorg run it for everybody? |
| 18:40.56 | johnjay | but i'm the one running Xorg? or am I? |
| 18:40.58 | pileofstraw | rozenglass: can I stick it somewhere else for you/ |
| 18:41.39 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: that would be great |
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| 18:44.23 | pileofstraw | rozenglass: how about HASTEBIN |
| 18:44.25 | pileofstraw | https://hastebin.com/afaxefipeh.cpp |
| 18:45.13 | rozenglass | seems to work |
| 18:45.52 | a_flayer | wow, pastebin is blocked in turkey? |
| 18:46.16 | fenris | awesome |
| 18:46.27 | fenris | not sure |
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| 18:46.34 | fenris | try a vpn |
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| 18:49.21 | rozenglass | yes it is blocked in turkey :) |
| 18:49.27 | rozenglass | among many many other websites |
| 18:50.01 | rozenglass | many more sites are blocked during tensions too |
| 18:50.12 | rozenglass | even github got blocked for a day before |
| 18:50.25 | annadane | or use tor |
| 18:50.33 | annadane | the browser, that is |
| 18:51.00 | rozenglass | I use tor, but tor is blocked, so you'd need bridges |
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| 18:51.39 | frikinz | then use bridges. I host a hidden one for that purpose. |
| 18:51.40 | rozenglass | wikipedia was blocked for more than two years, and only recently the constitutional court declared the block unconstitutional, and so it was unblocked |
| 18:52.13 | rozenglass | frikinz: I do use bridges when I need to :) |
| 18:52.33 | frikinz | Good. That motivates me to keep on hosting that |
| 18:52.42 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: so, according to the logs you have Iris Plus Graphics |
| 18:53.57 | oxek | why don't people use paste.debian.net in #debian... |
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| 18:54.12 | annadane | they want to be different, i guess |
| 18:54.27 | ratrace | it's broken, often marks as spam something that isn't, and prevents posting |
| 18:54.29 | rozenglass | frikinz: thanks for hosting it :) in extreme cases like during the military coupe attempt, only such efforts helped us know what the heck was going on. With planes flying everywhere, explosions, and firefights breaking all over the place, it's very awful to not know what's going on. |
| 18:54.51 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: I found this https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/issues/2183 |
| 18:54.52 | annadane | p.d.n is broken? really? |
| 18:55.11 | oxek | I haven't been able to use pastebin.com in years due to blocking, but pdn never failed me |
| 18:55.51 | annadane | i know p.d.n says you have to insert at least two line breaks for small pastes, but... |
| 18:55.55 | frikinz | rozenglass: yeah I've been in such countries and I've been fighting censorship for like 20 years. Good luck |
| 18:56.34 | rozenglass | frikinz: I'm actually from Syria originally, so Turkey is a breath of fresh air for me :) |
| 18:56.55 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: and https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/intel/-/issues/1752 |
| 18:57.24 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: those two issues mention hangups, and use the same graphics card as the machine in your logs |
| 18:57.53 | somiaj | johnjay: ~/.xsessionrc is only parsed for the user who's directory that is in. |
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| 18:59.12 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: can you grep for the word "hang" in your syslog? |
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| 19:00.20 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: also, this issue mentions a way to reproduce the hangups, can you try it https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/issues/2183#reproduction-steps |
| 19:00.37 | somiaj | annadane: it goes down from time to time |
| 19:00.54 | somiaj | annadane: also do you mean packages.debian.org (not .net) |
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| 19:01.03 | annadane | somiaj, paste.debian.net. |
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| 19:01.30 | somiaj | oh haha, yea that site (.net) is community run, can be slow and goes down. termbin.com is a nice one to use and easy from the command line |
| 19:01.33 | somiaj | !termbin |
| 19:01.34 | dpkg | well, termbin is you can paste to termbin.com from terminal via: cat /path/to/file | nc termbin.com 9999 |
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| 19:02.54 | jmcnaught | surely dpkg means 'nc termbin.com 9999 < /path/to/file' |
| 19:03.00 | jhutchins | !gpm |
| 19:03.00 | dpkg | gpm (General Purpose Mouse) is a package for use of the mouse in a Linux (text-only) console. Install it, then use left button to select text, middle or right button to paste. In some applications (such as elinks), you have to hold down Shift in order to cut or paste, otherwise the application itself interprets the mouse clicks. http://www.nico.schottelius.org/software/gpm/ #gpm on irc.freenode.net. |
| 19:03.54 | somiaj | what about echo or any other ways get info |
| 19:04.26 | somiaj | so piping is nice, but the example there is like nails to a chalkboard for all those who don't like to cat a file into less or grep |
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| 19:04.59 | jmcnaught | true enough, I was just thinking of the poor cats |
| 19:05.26 | jhutchins | somiaj: piping cat to less or grep is redundant, to nc it's not. |
| 19:05.49 | somiaj | good point |
| 19:06.12 | annadane | is it? i still use cat blah | grep foo all the time |
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| 19:09.10 | oxek | I like `bat` |
| 19:09.25 | oxek | hmm, maybe I shouldn't say that in 2020... |
| 19:09.47 | jhutchins | annadane: grep foo blah |
| 19:10.48 | annadane | annadane@debian:~$ grep epub ~ grep: /home/annadane: Is a directory |
| 19:11.26 | annadane | i guess i need some kind of recursive option |
| 19:11.30 | frikinz | hey that's my hostname |
| 19:11.59 | jhutchins | annadane: grep epub ~/* |
| 19:12.03 | somiaj | annadane: you also wouldn't normally cat a directory. |
| 19:12.17 | annadane | fair enough, that. :P |
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| 19:20.41 | brutser | anyone here know a good repository for obmenu-generator? |
| 19:21.07 | brutser | this one is bad: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/Head_on_a_Stick:/obmenu-generator/Debian_10 |
| 19:22.55 | trek00 | brutser: there is also obamenu |
| 19:23.14 | brutser | trek00: ah ok, have not heard of that |
| 19:23.14 | trek00 | not the same features however |
| 19:23.19 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: those two comments mention potential workarounds for the hangups they describe: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/issues/2183#note_357193 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/issues/2183#note_481037 |
| 19:23.39 | brutser | trek00: well i got my menu now prepared with obmenu-generator, so prefer to use that |
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| 19:34.50 | pileofstraw | rozenglass: sorry, baby fussing |
| 19:35.23 | pileofstraw | both of these are Ice Lake which is a newer architecture but Iris Plus is also on Kaby Lake |
| 19:35.34 | pileofstraw | I can certainly try the hardinfo test |
| 19:38.47 | pileofstraw | ...once I figure out how to do it via commandline... |
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| 19:46.59 | pileofstraw | Well logging into a machine via SSH and running hardinfo I get a pile of output but it gets to GPu Drawing and just ends. |
| 19:47.05 | pileofstraw | which makes sense as its likely dependant on X |
| 19:47.31 | pileofstraw | so running export DISPLAY=:0 first seems to cause it to run properly in X instead of in the ssh session |
| 19:48.01 | pileofstraw | and I'm just left with a blank line that will accept keyboard input (so it's not locked up) and presumably all sorts of fun draw-y things are happening in X |
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| 19:48.09 | pileofstraw | But it ain't locking up, which is perhaps instructive. |
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| 19:51.37 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: whoops, yes, those issues are about a different architecture. If it was not reproducible in the way described in the issue, then trying the workarounds is probably not worth it |
| 19:51.55 | lwp | pileofstraw, can you use ssh -X when you connect ? |
| 19:52.16 | rozenglass | pileofstraw: I have to go sleep now, sorry I couldn't be of more help |
| 19:52.23 | somiaj | though ssh -X might not trigger gpu issues on the host |
| 19:53.11 | pileofstraw | rozenglass: I appreciate the help you have given, thanks so much! |
| 19:53.22 | rozenglass | :) |
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| 19:58.19 | tyzef_ | trek00, greycat, somiaj, I ma connected on wifi with the netinstall kernel... I did that https://i.stack.imgur.com/rRJTz.png good man Luis Manuel ! |
| 19:58.33 | pileofstraw | interesting, I have never done X forwarding before. Trying to get it working with kitty ssh |
| 19:58.53 | tyzef_ | the thing is I am still not sure if the issue come from the kernel |
| 19:59.21 | tyzef_ | I did it with Network Manager |
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| 20:01.32 | tyzef_ | so two problem I see here... of course me first, I may had simply fixed the matter with that command from the beginning means 1 week ago... the other possibility, it really come from the kernel |
| 20:01.42 | somiaj | tyzef_: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernel/GitBisect if you are really adventerous you can start doing this to locate the exact kernel the regression occured |
| 20:02.04 | somiaj | tyzef_: you could also use snapshot.debian.org to install all the kerneles between the one that worked and the current one, identify the exact kernel that the regression occurs and report a bug. |
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| 20:02.29 | somiaj | to me it seems like kernel since you have had issues in other linuxes with newer kernels, but older kernels seem to work. |
| 20:02.42 | somiaj | A quick test is you have it working, upgrade the kernel, if it breaks you know there is a regression |
| 20:02.46 | tyzef_ | yes true |
| 20:03.05 | tyzef_ | yes lets update the kernel please ! |
| 20:03.05 | somiaj | debian you can have the newer and older kernel installed, so you could reboot off your older kernel to get your wifi back |
| 20:03.20 | somiaj | tyzef_: if you have the debian security sources, apt install linux-image-amd64 |
| 20:03.34 | tyzef_ | yes I have |
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| 20:05.15 | tyzef_ | hey what is this... I have the newest Kernel available |
| 20:05.46 | tyzef_ | why it ugraded my kernel? |
| 20:05.56 | somiaj | uname -a (are you currently running the newest kernel vs running the one in the netinstall?) |
| 20:06.15 | somiaj | tyzef_: the installer adds security sources and updates them during the install, it does assume you want secure packages |
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| 20:06.52 | tyzef_ | I ma sure I had the netinstall kernet because I installed it without internet to make sure to have "this" kernel ! |
| 20:07.14 | somiaj | I just want to check which one you are currently running, what does uname -v give? |
| 20:07.29 | tyzef_ | hey ! no, I have my previous kernel |
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| 20:08.59 | tyzef_ | but apt install linux-image-amd64 tell me that I already have (4.19+105+deb10u3) |
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| 20:09.17 | somiaj | if you reboot you shoudl be able to choose what kernel to boot from in grub, so you can try the new one out |
| 20:09.45 | tyzef_ | ohhh, is there any key option in grub? |
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| 20:11.18 | tyzef_ | in grub only one kernel I can see |
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| 20:13.11 | tyzef_ | strange isn't it? |
| 20:13.50 | tyzef_ | wait I send you a photo, I can't pastebin, I have nothing except tty |
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| 20:20.35 | gswan | Hey can anyone tell me what xen and or libvirt is? Ive used qemu to emulate arm devices on my x86 machine and kvm to emulate x86 machines, but i dont know what those other ones do. |
| 20:21.03 | somiaj | tyzef_: you should see debian, and then another option right below it, you go down, select that option, and all the other kenernels you have installed should become avaialbe to choose. |
| 20:21.49 | somiaj | gswan: qemu-kvm are often used together, qemu is full software emulation of different hardware, kvm uses the hardware emulation features of modern cpus, so even with using kvm, one often uses parts of qemu for network enumlation and what not. |
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| 20:22.31 | somiaj | gswan: xen is a completely different model of emulation, xen uses the hardware emulation (simlar to kvm) but does things in a container, so all instances using xen share the same kernel, while with kvm they emulate the whole hardware and have indvidual kernels. |
| 20:23.03 | somiaj | gswan: xen has some preformance increases because of the shared kernel, but other issues (you must use the same arch as the host, you must use a container that is compadable with the host's kernel, etc) |
| 20:23.26 | tyzef_ | somiaj, please if you like to have a look: https://framapic.org/FY2UmcxwdyQ9/nOHlX0hyp2hk.jpg |
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| 20:24.10 | somiaj | gswan: libvirt is a libary, or collection of tools that allow you to manage virutal machines. libvirt can work with qemu-kvm (what I use it for), it can also work with with virtualbox, and might even work with xen (unsure here). libvirt gives tools like virsh and virt-manager to make manging virtual machines easier than calling qemu or kvm directly with all the different comand line options you may need |
| 20:24.16 | somiaj | for a particuarl vm. |
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| 20:24.49 | somiaj | tyzef_: what is the output of apt policy linux-image-amd64? |
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| 20:25.26 | somiaj | tyzef_: oh nevermind, y ou need to reboot, you should be able to boot off the new kernel from grub |
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| 20:27.17 | somiaj | tyzef_: if not, run update-grub |
| 20:28.44 | gswan | OK so i get QEMU, KVM, libvirt, but what do yoj mean that xen shares kernels? LIke it can use just 1 single kernel for, say 3 vms? |
| 20:28.58 | somiaj | gswan: lxc and docker are other container like methods, they are a bit different from xen, but function similarly in that you use containers and share the kernel. |
| 20:29.08 | somiaj | gswan: do you know what a chroot (or bsd jail is)? |
| 20:29.22 | gswan | yes |
| 20:29.27 | gswan | wait |
| 20:29.43 | gswan | so is it just like docker, but it emulates the whole root filesystem? |
| 20:29.55 | somiaj | gswan: xen is a very advanced chroot/jail, in which all instances share the hosts kernel, but have their own userspace (so one container can't access anotehrs infromation) |
| 20:30.38 | somiaj | gswan: there are differences between xen and docker, but similar in that xen provides containers, though it is from my understand more powerful than docker or lxc, in how isolated and independent the containers are. I don't use either so I only know the vague basics. |
| 20:30.55 | somiaj | xen's containers are way closer to a full vm than a docker conatiner |
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| 20:31.40 | gswan | ok, well that clears up a lot |
| 20:33.04 | tyzef_ | somiaj, https://framapic.org/FIR6iGV42jeP/pRQ5Qpfb03YM.jpg |
| 20:33.29 | somiaj | tyzef_: reboot |
| 20:33.46 | tyzef_ | oops it is not the correct one |
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| 20:37.51 | gswan | Oh, and thank you for the explanation somiaj! |
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| 20:40.31 | tyzef_ | somiaj, it's afetr reboot: https://framapic.org/aPTFFv1R6tqA/HXP2tW2H0a0Y.jpg |
| 20:40.56 | tyzef_ | s > afetr > after |
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| 20:42.41 | tyzef_ | still no choice in grub... |
| 20:42.44 | somiaj | tyzef_: you should follow a bit closer, I don't need to check every thing. You need to boot of the newer kernel to test it. If you don't see it in grub run 'update-grub' as I said. |
| 20:42.58 | somiaj | oh wait, you did run update-grub |
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| 20:43.04 | somiaj | why isn't it seeing the newer images, |
| 20:43.18 | somiaj | tyzef_: ls /boot, do you see vmlinuz-<newer kernel version> there? |
| 20:43.48 | somiaj | try to run apt dist-upgrade does it install a newer kernel? |
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| 20:44.40 | rekishi | I have a dumb question concerning issues in UL, I recently purchased a new(to me) server, the previous owner had no performance issues, and it will UL/DL full speed inside the network and DL fullspeed from outside the network but throttles the hell out of outbound traffic, initially I noticed a dying drive so I replaced the OS drive, but the issue persists and doesnt persist when using Kubuntu |
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| 20:46.15 | rekishi | further note, these drives were ported from a previous machine also running buster, with no network throttling |
| 20:47.03 | tyzef_ | somiaj, ls /boot: vmlinuz-4.19.0-8-amd64 |
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| 20:48.27 | somiaj | tyzef_: oh wait, I see, does the wireless card work with that kernel? That is the newest kernel, and not the one from the netinstaller. |
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| 20:49.16 | tyzef_ | somiaj, yes it work ! |
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| 20:50.35 | tyzef_ | after reboot also |
| 20:51.20 | somiaj | you are running the newest kernel, so I'm usnure why it is working now when it wasn't working before |
| 20:51.56 | tyzef_ | maybe the problem is that I am a stupid newbe from 2007? oops |
| 20:52.09 | tyzef_ | i also don't understand |
| 20:52.14 | somiaj | who knows, well it works, continue installing stuff, move on |
| 20:52.44 | tyzef_ | yes, thanks for all! |
| 20:53.40 | tyzef_ | I think this wifi card is a bit special |
| 20:53.59 | tyzef_ | because many got same like me on the web I could see |
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| 20:56.28 | invra | should i be deletin /etc/mpd.conf if i am using .mpdconf in my user |
| 20:56.32 | Gigglebyte | is zoom meeting in the repos? I see a Zoom something, but realize proprietary software is not in the repository. |
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| 20:57.38 | rekishi | Gigglebyte: its a .deb? |
| 20:58.37 | Gigglebyte | rekishi> Supposed to be |
| 20:58.39 | sney | you can download the zoom deb from their website and use it on buster. as you said, it's proprietary so it's not distributed by debian |
| 20:59.20 | rekishi | any ideas on whats throttling my UL? |
| 20:59.22 | sney | there is a f/oss program called jitsi that does the same thing. it's not currently in debian either but I think the process is ongoing to get it uploaded. |
| 20:59.54 | sney | rekishi: is that bare metal or a VM? |
| 21:00.01 | rekishi | bare metal |
| 21:00.25 | sney | hmm. what network hardware? |
| 21:00.30 | rekishi | whats REALLY weird, is that the old OS drive and the new OS drives were WD Blacks, and a WD blue was beating it |
| 21:00.47 | rekishi | but since there wasnt an issue before i dont think its a hard drive issue |
| 21:01.13 | Gigglebyte | is zoom meeting in the repos? I see a Zoom something, but realize proprietary software is not in the repository. |
| 21:01.26 | sney | Gigglebyte: I already answered your question. please read. |
| 21:01.50 | rekishi | Gigglebyte: |
| 21:01.54 | rekishi | fug |
| 21:02.29 | tyzef_ | somiaj, does the problem had been because i changed something as well, before in my wifi router password, ther was some ! and ? and I now had removed them... |
| 21:02.31 | Gigglebyte | sney> the file on zoom's website doesn't work, and it looks like the filename has been changed, or isn't correct. |
| 21:02.46 | sney | !doesnt work |
| 21:02.47 | dpkg | "Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>. |
| 21:03.15 | sney | that said, I use the zoom deb on my buster laptop and it's fine, and support for 3rd party software is not offered in this channel anyway |
| 21:05.33 | rekishi | sney: so far this is what testing I have done, 1. changed ports 2. changed OS drives 3. Changed distros. What I found was that changing ports did nothing (shocker since theyre the same NIC) changing the drives did nothing (5Mb to 7Mb) and changing distros alleviated the issue. howevever the distro test was without going back and setting up all the services that run on my buster box. |
| 21:05.57 | rekishi | the major network hogs on the debian box rn are transmission, apache, ssh |
| 21:06.05 | sney | rekishi: what network hardware is it? I've seen bnx2 have some weird behavior with MTU configuration |
| 21:06.53 | rekishi | its a SFP+ card with a SFP+ to RJ45 adapter, its something on an inventec board |
| 21:07.45 | rekishi | 4:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82599ES 10-Gigabit SFI/SFP+ Network Connection (rev 01) |
| 21:07.45 | rekishi | 84:00.1 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82599ES 10-Gigabit SFI/SFP+ Network Connection (rev 01) |
| 21:09.40 | sney | alright, ixgbe, so no broadcom tomfoolery |
| 21:11.38 | sney | still, I'd look at the MTU size. having it set too large can result in fragmentation and/or a lot of transmission retries, which manifests as reduced speed |
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| 21:13.10 | rekishi | it's set to automatic? |
| 21:14.41 | rekishi | enp132s0f0: flags=4099<UP,BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 |
| 21:14.41 | rekishi | enp132s0f1: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 |
| 21:14.41 | rekishi | lo: flags=73<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING> mtu 65536 |
| 21:15.08 | sney | drop it to 1490 and see what happens |
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| 21:15.52 | cyveris | 1500 is fine. Dinking with the MTU isn't going to help you. |
| 21:17.14 | rekishi | any suggestions on what could be eating my UL like a fat kid with cookies? |
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| 21:18.19 | cyveris | Have you tried terminating any of those processes and seeing if it resolves the issue? |
| 21:19.21 | cyveris | But you said that all three are hogging bandwidth, right? |
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| 21:22.49 | invra | https://wiki.debian.org/mpd this guide is not correct. mpd --create-db is not a command |
| 21:23.30 | rekishi | cyveris: they have the potential to hog bandwidth |
| 21:23.37 | rekishi | as they are what use my bandwidth most |
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| 21:24.08 | cyveris | I'm aware; that also wasn't really my question. I know that they CAN. I'm interested in what IS. |
| 21:24.09 | rekishi | stopping them changed nothing, and they were running before on the old metal with no issues |
| 21:24.23 | cyveris | Well, something is causing them to send a ton of traffic outbound. |
| 21:24.47 | cyveris | How are you measuring their activity, network-wise? |
| 21:24.56 | cyveris | At the firewall, or elsewhere? |
| 21:25.42 | rekishi | its an assumption theyre hogging bandwidth, however the only way I am testing UL is using speedtest-cli which is still telling only 3.5Mb up |
| 21:26.05 | rekishi | previously I tested bias by having a friend DL from my box but had similar results |
| 21:26.17 | mason | rekishi: run iftop -n |
| 21:26.51 | cyveris | ^ |
| 21:26.54 | rekishi | nothing is running |
| 21:27.13 | rekishi | 0B 0b |
| 21:30.06 | rekishi | so far nada |
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| 21:31.09 | rekishi | im trying to think whats majorly different between buster and kubuntu 20.04 |
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| 21:36.45 | jaakkos | I wanted to use Property= [Match] rule with systemd, which was introduced in v.243. Buster backports has 244.3-1~bpo10+1, and /usr/share/doc/systemd/NEWS.gz lists this feature; it's documented here https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.link.html |
| 21:37.18 | jaakkos | However, it's missing from 'man 5 systemd.link', and the feature is not recognized by systemd. I wonder what's up with that. |
| 21:38.58 | somiaj | jaakkos: that manpage comes from udev, have you updated udev to be from backports too? |
| 21:39.01 | somiaj | ,v udev |
| 21:39.02 | judd | Package: udev on amd64 -- jessie: 215-17+deb8u7; jessie-security: 215-17+deb8u13; stretch-security: 232-25+deb9u11; stretch: 232-25+deb9u12; stretch-backports: 241-5~bpo9+1; buster: 241-7~deb10u3; buster-backports: 244.3-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 245.5-2; sid: 245.5-2 |
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| 21:42.33 | jaakkos | somiaj: I have not, that's it :) BTW, what's an easy way to see where a man page comes from? And thank you! |
| 21:43.14 | somiaj | jaakkos: I used dpkg -S /path/to/file in this cause /usr/share/man/man5/systemd.link |
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| 21:43.55 | somiaj | jaakkos: you might want to check all packages on your system that are still 241-7, 'dpkg -l | grep 241-7' |
| 21:43.57 | mason | rekishi: You might have gotten the wrong interface if you see no bandwidth userd. |
| 21:44.00 | mason | used* |
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| 21:45.01 | rekishi | its says its listening on the prefix of both ports |
| 21:45.13 | jaakkos | somiaj: neat. Thanks again for the quick solution _b |
| 21:45.29 | rekishi | which i also think is weird since theres obviously kb of data being brought in by irc |
| 21:47.04 | rekishi | now i have it set to the correct listening |
| 21:47.40 | rekishi | TX 160MB ???? |
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| 21:51.08 | invra | https://wiki.debian.org/mpd this guide is not correct. mpd --create-db is not a command. it has been removed 10 years ago, i woudl say the wiki is "slightly" outdated |
| 21:55.06 | *** join/#debian bn_work (uid268505@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yxdpjqinewwiskjt) |
| 21:55.27 | rekishi | so the TX peak is 35 Mb which is the internet plan peak |
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| 21:56.29 | rekishi | and its ip addresses that i can only assume are transmission, however when running speedtest-cli |
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| 21:57.09 | rekishi | i'm only getting 3.5 UL |
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| 21:58.41 | invra | https://github.com/MusicPlayerDaemon/MPD/blob/master/NEWS#L1580 here you can see --create-db was removed as a command from mpd in version 0.16 (2010/12/11) |
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| 22:00.36 | kmf_58 | hi all hope ur ok u and ur by freinds and family |
| 22:00.52 | *** join/#debian drzacek (~drzacek@2001:16b8:1cb1:900:cc08:33a5:2243:339b) |
| 22:03.12 | invra | kind of |
| 22:03.51 | sney | invra: what's the correct command? |
| 22:04.41 | invra | it is autogenerated if the config file is setup properely. there is no command as far as i know |
| 22:04.58 | invra | let me check man |
| 22:05.30 | invra | sney: yeah there is no command to generate a fb. it is done with the config file |
| 22:05.58 | sney | ok, and I'm guessing "The operation must be repeated each time the music catalog changes. " is false too? |
| 22:06.29 | invra | yeah makes sanse to remove that aswell |
| 22:06.29 | rekishi | is the solution just to say fugget and install *buntu |
| 22:07.38 | invra | what are you fuggeting about rekishi |
| 22:08.43 | sney | wiki updated |
| 22:10.05 | invra | nice sney gj |
| 22:10.16 | invra | gives beer to sney |
| 22:10.17 | rekishi | invra: my buster box gives software full speed up, but when running speedtest or any user DL from outside network, it throttles to 4Mb |
| 22:10.18 | sney | rekishi: that other guy was right that my idea was a shot in the dark, but if you're having network throughput issues even when nothing is running, it still suggests a lower level issue. |
| 22:10.50 | rekishi | sney: i checked iftop, and transmission is outputting at 35Mb (which I pay for) |
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| 22:11.21 | sney | ubuntu often ships a newer kernel, maybe the 5.4 kernel from buster-backports would improve your situation |
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| 22:12.18 | mason | rekishi: Is the issue that your bandwidth is being choked off? If so you should be able to cap transmission. |
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| 22:13.37 | rekishi | mason: so the entire system was on hardrives on a dell workstation ported to a new barebones chenbro, on the previous hardware I had no issues with throttling or transmission choking out other processes, new hardware -- new issues, which do not persist in other operating systems |
| 22:13.53 | rekishi | sney: are there buster compatability issues with 5.4? |
| 22:14.35 | sney | none that I've heard of |
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| 22:17.05 | rekishi | i forget, kernel updating shouldnt require a system reboot right? |
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| 22:17.39 | sney | it does, you need to boot the new kernel |
| 22:18.20 | rekishi | right |
| 22:18.23 | rekishi | welp |
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| 22:18.58 | invra | sney: wah i typed /me gives a beer to sney.. and all of a sudden weechat crashed, screen crashed and i got kicked out of aws ssh istance... lol wtf |
| 22:19.18 | invra | that was freaky |
| 22:19.38 | rekishi | brb all |
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| 22:22.22 | rekishi | back |
| 22:22.58 | rekishi | sdt |
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| 22:24.08 | rekishi | even with 5.4 speedtest-cli is having issue |
| 22:24.39 | sponix | rekishi: speedtest-cli is broken from my experiences. Results aren't even close |
| 22:26.44 | warsoul | how adduser with sudo privileges? |
| 22:27.13 | dvs | warsoul, adduser <user> sudo |
| 22:27.29 | kmf_58 | what is a fb file plz? |
| 22:28.38 | kmf_58 | it's has been a lo,g time i didn;t use my pc |
| 22:29.37 | sney | kmf_58: fb could stand for a lot of things, what do you need help with exactly? |
| 22:29.56 | warsoul | dvs dont ask for passwd |
| 22:30.08 | warsoul | dont know the passwd for the user |
| 22:30.36 | kmf_58 | sney, just to learn and get up to dzte |
| 22:30.44 | sponix | warsoul: that is a bit of a problem then |
| 22:30.47 | kmf_58 | date* |
| 22:31.12 | sney | !debian-handbook |
| 22:31.12 | dpkg | The Debian Administrator's Handbook is at http://debian-handbook.info/ and can be browsed, bought and downloaded. From Debian 7 "Wheezy" onwards, it can also be installed from the debian-handbook package. Also ask me about <books> <docs>. PDF at https://debian-handbook.info/download/stable/debian-handbook.pdf |
| 22:31.50 | kmf_58 | thx |
| 22:31.56 | kmf_58 | a lot |
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| 22:43.26 | sponix | warsoul: is your Linux install on an ext4 partition without any encryption ? |
| 22:49.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1245] by debhelper |
| 22:49.20 | warsoul | sponix just got the ssd vps |
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| 22:50.58 | warsoul | -bash: sudo: command not found |
| 22:51.25 | dvs | as root? |
| 22:51.33 | dvs | oh wait nv |
| 22:51.34 | dvs | m |
| 22:51.43 | warsoul | fix it |
| 22:51.47 | dvs | sudo isn't installed by default |
| 22:53.46 | annadane | 'apt install sudo' |
| 22:53.52 | annadane | or just do without and use su - instead |
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| 22:54.42 | annadane | (note that that's su - and not su and yes there is a difference |
| 22:54.43 | annadane | ) |
| 22:54.45 | annadane | !buster su |
| 22:54.45 | dpkg | In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). To approximate the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs. See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for details. |
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| 23:05.09 | Thete | anyone by chance know how to get app indicators for electron apps in gnome? |
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| 23:23.14 | Unit193 | Thete: Not sure about the electron part, but you can use gnome-shell-extension-appindicator for the latter. |
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| 23:29.07 | Gigglebyte | Got Zoom installed, and it is working. |
| 23:29.29 | Unit193 | Condolences. |
| 23:30.12 | annadane | honeypot. |
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| 23:31.27 | edi | lol |
| 23:31.49 | joepublic | freenodian entities harvesting conspiracy theories out of honeypots worldwide |
| 23:32.22 | annadane | in fairness, zoom legitimately does have privacy issues |
| 23:32.27 | annadane | *unlike* debian |
| 23:32.53 | joepublic | that's true |
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| 23:38.40 | hierbat | would you recommend btrfs over ext4 for a workstation with a single SSD? Or does it not really matter |
| 23:39.03 | hierbat | I might be overthinking this |
| 23:39.26 | somiaj | I often recommend ext4 because it is the standard and very well tested file system. |
| 23:39.30 | joepublic | btrfs stands for Buzzsaw To Remove Files Speedily in my opinion |
| 23:40.15 | somiaj | In general I suggest using ext4 unless there are very specific features you want and need from another filesystem. |
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| 23:41.09 | annadane | has heard some horror stories about btrfs, people prefer zfs |
| 23:41.22 | EdePopede | Gigglebyte: does the chromium-sandbox (iirc) really run SUID root? i just looked into the .deb, and was left with the impression it needs it. |
| 23:41.43 | somiaj | zfs has only been in linux for a while, and at one point I thougth there was some push to make btrfs the core filesystem, but that didn't happen. |
| 23:41.51 | hierbat | thank you, it is interesting to see what's out there but I'll stick with the default install for now then! |
| 23:42.05 | hierbat | yeah seems like btrfs has been around for 12 years too |
| 23:42.21 | somiaj | with lvm, you can get some of the volume capaiblities of zfs/btrfs as well, and have some additional features. |
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