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| 00:04.20 | fuxxy | Debian (Buster) currently installs Python 3.7 by default. How can I get Python 3.5 (preferably both installed simultaneously)? |
| 00:06.24 | rwp | fuxxy, I am not a python person so treat this as FWIW but I would go to http://snapshot.debian.org/ search for python3 and see what versions are available and install the older ones from there. |
| 00:07.26 | fuxxy | I did an "apt install python3.5, and apt says "0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded." |
| 00:07.40 | rwp | That implies that you already have it installed. |
| 00:07.45 | sponix | fuxxy: why 3.5 ? |
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| 00:08.15 | fuxxy | sponix, I have a python package that apparently requires ==3.5 |
| 00:08.58 | sney | python 3.5 is not available in buster and messing with python defaults can bring you a world of pain |
| 00:09.01 | rwp | That does sound suspicious. As a real honest to goodness Debian package? Or some random python script? |
| 00:09.49 | fuxxy | rwp, not a debian package. http://overviewer.org |
| 00:09.53 | sney | python 3.x versions are intended to be backwards compatible, so anything developed for 3.5 should work fine in 3.7. however, there are out-of-debian ways to manage multiple pythons in /usr/local or so |
| 00:09.56 | rwp | Because of the way python (and perl and ruby and ...) are packaged they are installed as versions specific binaries in /usr/bin and therefore can have multiple versions installed simultaneously. |
| 00:10.14 | sponix | sney: maybe they can use equivs to make it think python3.5 is there, and then just link python3.5 to /bin/python3 ;) |
| 00:10.36 | sney | sponix: unfortunately, equivs is never a hammer, even if everything does look like a nail |
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| 00:11.27 | rwp | I am very suspicious that you really need exactly python 3.5. I feel it very likely that the default 3.7 is okay for you. |
| 00:11.29 | sney | making a /usr/bin/python3.5 symlink that points to /usr/bin/python3.7 might just work though, depending on how kludgy that overviewer thing is |
| 00:12.07 | fuxxy | it worked when I was running stretch. I performed a dist-upgrade, now the main overviewer.py complains No module named 'overviewer_core' |
| 00:12.13 | rwp | fuxxy, I assume you are trying to download the deb file from http://overviewer.org/downloads ?? I'll look to see what dependencies they declare in the package. |
| 00:12.40 | rwp | fuxxy, That package says: Depends: python3 (>= 3.4), python3-pil, python3-numpy, libc6 (>= 2.4) |
| 00:12.55 | rwp | Therefore it should be good to go with 3.7 and does not need exactly 3.5. |
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| 00:13.18 | rwp | overviewer_core huh... That needs a python person to look at and answer. |
| 00:13.45 | rwp | I do see this bug though: https://github.com/overviewer/Minecraft-Overviewer/issues/1595 |
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| 00:15.52 | rwp | Looking at the deb file contents I do see a lot of .pyc files in the deb file. Knowing nothing about python or py packaging I find it surprising that they would have .pyc files there. |
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| 00:16.36 | fuxxy | rwp, I was under the impression .pyc files are compiled upon first-run. They left them in the package for some reason |
| 00:16.58 | fuxxy | rather, .pyc are the compiled version of a matching .py |
| 00:17.44 | sponix | fuxxy: that might explain why it is looking for a specific version ;) |
| 00:18.00 | rwp | I am not a python person but I would have expected them to ship the .py files and let them be compiled on the local system at install time so that everything matched. But I do not know very much. Less and less every day! |
| 00:18.13 | fuxxy | I'm wondering if I remove the .pyc files it'll behave? |
| 00:18.27 | rwp | That bug ticket has a lot of discussion about the exact problem. |
| 00:18.43 | fuxxy | they're suggesting I compile from source, and not use their repo. They apparently don't have a buster build environment |
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| 00:19.12 | rwp | I think if it were me that I would build from the source. |
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| 00:19.46 | fuxxy | that's the simplest just to get it working, I was hoping for sort-of-automated versioning |
| 00:19.57 | fuxxy | hence the appeal of the repeo |
| 00:20.14 | rwp | I agree on the appeal of the repository. But apparently they haven't kept it up to date. |
| 00:20.36 | rwp | http://docs.overviewer.org/en/latest/building/#linux describes what is needed to build it. Does not seem too scary. I would give it a go. |
| 00:20.59 | fuxxy | rwp, not scary, just need a bunch of -dev versions I'd have to re-install |
| 00:21.40 | rwp | "re-install"? You had them installed previously? Just trying to understand. IRC is always lacking in context. Sorry. |
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| 00:22.20 | rwp | The other option would be where you were going before. Install python 3.5 using packages. Due to the versioning of the python files I think that will work okay too. |
| 00:22.59 | rwp | ls -l /usr/bin | grep python |
| 00:23.09 | rwp | I see that I have both 2.7 and 3.7 installed on my Buster system. |
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| 00:24.08 | rwp | And 3.5 on Stretch. I think it would be okay to add stretch to sources.list on Buster and install the old python 3.5 packages from there. |
| 00:24.42 | rwp | I think that would likely work okay. And specifically because of the package versioning and because you are at Buster which is already later than Stretch on the same release track. |
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| 00:26.03 | rwp | I think normally the python and python3 and python-all packages pull in the new versions. The old versions are then candidates for autoremove and get cleaned up that way. |
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| 00:26.31 | rwp | Note that I haven't tested this but just by looking I don't see an immediate reason that would cause a problem. |
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| 00:27.11 | rwp | fuxxy, I will be curious which direction you try and how it goes! |
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| 00:32.12 | fuxxy | rwp, I'll try compiling from source. I'm just being extra cautious I use the same INSTALL locations before removing the repo version |
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| 00:33.26 | GarySmith2222 | wow |
| 00:33.37 | GarySmith2222 | I did it! |
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| 00:36.43 | rwp | fuxxy, Are you familiar with the 'etckeeper' package? It saves /etc information in version control. Very useful for keeping track of what is changing on systems. I highly recommend it. |
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| 00:37.42 | rwp | It's also pretty simple to use. For the most part it "Just Works" when installed. The only interesting problem is if one already has .git directories in subdirectories of /etc already. |
| 00:39.01 | rwp | Such as if one is already using git version control for some subdirectory. Then initially there will be a failure on the stacking of .git directories. Ignore the sub directory and that's it. |
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| 00:39.29 | fuxxy | rwp, I've never pulled a git repo into /etc. I would lose track of that for sure. It does seem handy, though. I've been running multiple debian VM's to separate services so the installs don't get too convoluted |
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| 00:43.33 | fuxxy | Well, the build was easy. Now to figure out what to move out of the build folder |
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| 01:00.11 | fuxxy | rwp It appears installing overviewer to the system was as simple as copying the build/overviewer_core folder to /usr/lib/python3.7 and the build/scripts/overviewer.py to /usr/bin |
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| 01:18.49 | sponix | So, nvidia-smi says my Installed version of Cuda is 10.2 -- BUT, when I do apt-cache madison nvidia-cuda-toolkit or nvidia-cuda-dev -- my options listed are 9.2 stable, and 10.1 backports |
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| 01:19.30 | sponix | I am using the Nvidia 440 driver from backports for my GTX 960 ... Should I be using the newer backports cuda also ? Is there a performance advantage for Folding@home ? |
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| 01:34.46 | i-node | hello, I have a disk that doesn't show any partitions (there is one), if I open it with gdisk, it tells me that it has found mbr and gpt partition and asks me to choose one option: mbr, gpt or create blank gpt. if I choose GPT, it shows one partition, but when I do W it prevents me from writing it because I will loose data |
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| 01:35.44 | sponix | i-node: what are you attempting to accomplish ? |
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| 01:36.19 | i-node | sponix: I have data in that partition but cannot mount it because in /dev there is only the whole disk link, not partition |
| 01:36.37 | i-node | partprobe doesn't found anything |
| 01:37.07 | sponix | i-node: do you know for sure if it was mbr or gpt prior ? |
| 01:37.19 | i-node | yes |
| 01:37.27 | i-node | it must be since I have used it |
| 01:37.38 | sponix | must be which ? |
| 01:37.44 | i-node | only gpt shows the partition, on mbr it does not shows it |
| 01:38.20 | sponix | and did it only have 1 partition prior ? If so, what partition type, and format ? |
| 01:38.49 | i-node | only one partition, but cannot remember fs, maybe ext4, but not 100% sure |
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| 01:39.58 | sponix | i-node: might see how it looks with "gparted" |
| 01:40.37 | sponix | i-node: if recovery is needed you get to read up on testdisk and photorec with your figures crossed :) |
| 01:41.41 | i-node | gparted shows it empty |
| 01:41.48 | sney | depending on the size of the disk, it may make more sense to just copy the whole thing to a file and do the recovery on that |
| 01:42.52 | i-node | sney with dd? |
| 01:44.44 | i-node | testdisk shows the partition, it is analyzing it |
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| 01:54.33 | rwp | fuxxy, Sounds good! Keep track of that information. Since it is outside of the package manager you will need to track it yourself, and hopefully with a future version will undo it and use the upgraded package later. And be enjoying it working between now and then. :-) |
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| 02:08.51 | lyind | hi, is there any way to make edits to the description text of bug reports filed via reportbug or email (submit@bugs.debian.org)? |
| 02:09.08 | lyind | after the fact i mean. |
| 02:10.46 | lyind | i need to remove some private information |
| 02:18.58 | sponix | lyind: you accidentally include your SSN, Credit Card Number, and Mother's Maiden name ? |
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| 02:20.06 | rwp | lyind, If it truly is important you would need to write the bugs maintainers. However remember https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect |
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| 02:21.53 | lyind | rwp: it's just a session id i accidentally copied into the bug report. but i immediately destroyed the session. so the edit would only serve to hide my stupidy... i guess we leave it sitting there. |
| 02:22.05 | lyind | rwp: thank you |
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| 02:22.45 | lyind | rwp: need some sleep |
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| 02:27.20 | rwp | lyind, I have definitely written some stupid things myself. But my plan is to hide that as best as possible by saying more things that are hopefully more helpful and intelligent so that the sum total is on average better. |
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| 02:29.00 | lyind | rwp: sounds like a plan |
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| 03:13.35 | nickgaw | Hi, Where as I am totally blind can I find a text or single html file version of the debian reference guide or other guides like the installation and faqs? One single file would be best but if it is in sections like chapter 1 is in it's own file and chapter 2 is in it's own file I guess that would work but prefer it is one file? |
| 03:15.06 | annadane | on the internet or as a package on your system? |
| 03:15.30 | annadane | i'm reading your description, but what's wrong with https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/? |
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| 03:15.49 | nickgaw | Either if it is already installed on my debian system where is it and what format would it be in? |
| 03:16.30 | annadane | i don't believe any of those are installed by default |
| 03:16.35 | annadane | the faq *might* be |
| 03:16.59 | annadane | only because i think i've seen that flash by in the installer as it's installing debian |
| 03:17.09 | annadane | you can check where stuff is with the 'whereis' tool |
| 03:17.17 | nickgaw | on line can I find single files versions of guides or build my own version somehow without manually cutting and pasting? |
| 03:17.20 | annadane | so whereis debian-faq |
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| 03:17.55 | annadane | you mean you want stuff all on one page as opposed to having to click on sections? like if you wanted to print it out? maybe i'm just not understanding fully |
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| 03:18.51 | nickgaw | I would like it in one page as I can load the entire file into a braille notetaker and read threw it like a book but if each section is in it's own file that I guess would beok. |
| 03:19.13 | annadane | ah, you mean blind in a literal sense. i apologize for my misunderstanding |
| 03:19.24 | annadane | i'm not sure, maybe someone else can answer |
| 03:20.15 | nickgaw | my braille devices also speak so I like to read these guides using text to speech and having them in one large html file would be nice each guide but if things are in sections that would be ok I guess. |
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| 03:34.36 | *** topic/#debian is Current Debian release is buster, 10.3 point release (needs dist-upgrade) /msg dpkg 10.3; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch; /msg dpkg 9.12 (needs dist-upgrade) | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 03:34.48 | nickgaw | I will look at those links and will get back to you if I need more help just wondering how did you make those files? |
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| 03:35.23 | sponix | nickgaw: I copied them from /usr/share/doc/ in debian-reference |
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| 03:35.56 | sponix | nickgaw: My Discord Server is https://discord.gg/S2HqPuW if you join it, you will be my 2nd blind person lol |
| 03:36.17 | nickgaw | ok let me take a look at these files. |
| 03:36.29 | sponix | sure sure |
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| 03:42.20 | nickgaw | sponix I downloaded the epub and I will see how that works. |
| 03:44.08 | sponix | nickgaw: hope it helps. I am about to go to sleep it is 22:45 here. But normally I hang out here often. Let me know if you can use a hand with anything else |
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| 03:44.44 | nickgaw | ok thanks! |
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| 04:20.51 | Hatter__ | Where are the network card drivers now in Buster ? I used to look in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules |
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| 04:21.41 | sney | the drivers are the same place they've always been, in /lib/modules |
| 04:21.50 | sney | what's your real question? |
| 04:22.00 | Hatter__ | sney, perhaps I am not talking about drivers. |
| 04:22.27 | Hatter__ | When I am replacing a nic, i am used to going into udev to remove the old one |
| 04:23.09 | Hatter__ | so no, not talking about drivers, sorry. |
| 04:24.39 | sney | are you trying to control the interface names? |
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| 04:25.11 | Hatter__ | sney, yes |
| 04:25.30 | sney | https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.link.html |
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| 04:25.50 | Hatter__ | the 2x that are in this box are showing in 70-persistent-net.rules, but the new one I just added is not |
| 04:26.27 | sney | I believe the 70-persistent-net.rules thing is deprecated |
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| 04:26.44 | Hatter__ | sney, ah, that was my next question. that's likely the case. |
| 04:26.45 | sney | but if you manually create an entry it may still work. otherwise see the systemd.link manual above |
| 04:26.59 | Hatter__ | sney, ok thx. |
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| 04:52.06 | travisfromsaskat | there we are |
| 04:52.17 | travisfromsaskat | where's the off-topic chats, paltalk got shot down for 30 minutes |
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| 04:52.22 | travisfromsaskat | :D |
| 04:52.44 | travisfromsaskat | i used to be an uber leet h4x0r like you guys, but hey, life goes on, where's the chats at |
| 04:53.15 | travisfromsaskat | hope you guys're all doing good though |
| 04:53.40 | travisfromsaskat | arabia and russia should be punished for their timing of an oil war, that's like 45% of our national canadian/american economy's going, poof |
| 04:53.42 | Ede|Popede | ain't an uver leet hax0r nor wants to be one. and: topic? |
| 04:53.49 | travisfromsaskat | lol |
| 04:54.02 | travisfromsaskat | ede too humble to acknowledge his leetness |
| 04:54.15 | travisfromsaskat | he can program awk programming an assembler in ksh |
| 04:55.20 | travisfromsaskat | what you want to talk about |
| 04:55.24 | Ede|Popede | ,v paltalk |
| 04:55.25 | travisfromsaskat | i've always liked file systems |
| 04:55.25 | judd | No package named 'paltalk' was found in amd64. |
| 04:55.30 | Ede|Popede | oh. good. |
| 04:55.33 | travisfromsaskat | yeah |
| 04:55.39 | travisfromsaskat | could never find a client for it on linux |
| 04:55.59 | travisfromsaskat | you know that 64 bit cpus can do 128 bit divisions? |
| 04:56.08 | travisfromsaskat | it's in the c-code |
| 04:56.13 | travisfromsaskat | almost never utilized though |
| 04:56.32 | travisfromsaskat | could speed up alot of programs, if you can turn other calculations into divisions, where it makes sense |
| 04:56.59 | travisfromsaskat | almost nobody knows assembly anymore though |
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| 04:57.06 | travisfromsaskat | ez code world |
| 04:57.16 | travisfromsaskat | i always loved the exactness of assembly and c |
| 04:57.27 | travisfromsaskat | and being able to do the same things in both |
| 04:58.04 | Ede|Popede | the reason may be that they never released one? |
| 04:58.34 | travisfromsaskat | yeah, i translated the 'programming from the ground up' book into 64 bit on some floppy disk or cd i burnt somewhere |
| 04:59.11 | travisfromsaskat | got all the callings and things translated from int $0x80 to 64 bit |
| 04:59.13 | sponix2ipfw | travisfromsaskat: please /join #Debian-offtopic and tell your life's story in there |
| 04:59.17 | travisfromsaskat | ok |
| 04:59.21 | travisfromsaskat | ty sponix |
| 04:59.27 | travisfromsaskat | you uber leetness you |
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| 05:15.03 | soft_cement | irc - the best way to talk to yourself |
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| 05:22.24 | ejr | hi! i want to download a package via apt-get for later installation/installation whenever needed. when i use "apt-get download" i only receive the package, not the dependencies. is there a way to also automatically fetch the dependencies of that package for later installation? |
| 05:23.13 | Unit193 | 1. Use apt install $pkg and look what else it'll pull in. 2. apt-offline? |
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| 05:25.24 | ejr | as for 1.) how does it help me to know what it'll pull in? i could of course write a script that then fetches all of those packages manually with apt-get download, but that seems clumsy |
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| 05:39.15 | miskatonic | and how to decide between alternatives if apt is used non-interactively? |
| 05:39.41 | miskatonic | In aptitude it is easy to walk through alternatives |
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| 05:45.37 | Haohmaru | scalar <- spam bot |
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| 05:47.17 | GarySmith3333 | ? |
| 05:47.50 | Haohmaru | pokes the jelly |
| 05:48.31 | annadane | miskatonic, um... update-alternatives? |
| 05:48.56 | annadane | oh, alternative package transaction methods |
| 05:49.11 | annadane | i... don't know, i haven't heard of a way to do that |
| 05:50.05 | Ede|Popede | ejr: apt-get -s install, you could grep the indented lines |
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| 05:51.58 | Unit193 | ejr: In that it would show you precisely what packages would be installed, so you have a full list of things to pass to `apt download` |
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| 05:53.06 | miskatonic | not these alternatives ... I mean dependence alternatives |
| 05:54.07 | awal1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:54.38 | awal1 | you right aptitude is more friendly regarding deps resolution |
| 05:55.33 | awal1 | but if you use stable branch, you shouldn't have deps issues |
| 05:55.46 | awal1 | or you are with testing/unstable? |
| 05:57.11 | miskatonic | no, dependence issues also appear in stable distributions |
| 05:57.58 | awal1 | are you mixing stable with testing/unstable? |
| 05:58.06 | awal1 | or 3d party stuff? |
| 05:58.29 | miskatonic | I am not mixing anything |
| 05:59.15 | awal1 | well, a very small percenage of stable pkgs may have deps issues, yes |
| 05:59.35 | awal1 | globally, no deps problems under stable |
| 06:00.02 | awal1 | anyway, apt is what it is; use aptitude if you find it more suitable |
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| 06:01.24 | awal1 | maybe the new "apt" frontend of main apt will include some stuff of aptitude regarding what you are saying. it is work in progress |
| 06:02.49 | miskatonic | For example, uninstalling gnome but keeping a chosen subset of gtk utilities is better done interactively |
| 06:02.50 | awal1 | i tried it but it looks like the new apt is more on the apt-get way |
| 06:03.37 | awal1 | well, if you want to remove gnome meta pkg that is an other story |
| 06:04.53 | awal1 | remove all the pkgs installed by the metapkg 'gnome' is almost impossible |
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| 06:05.52 | awal1 | aptitude , also apt-get, can do the job for you at maybe 80% but the rest cleaning you should do it manually |
| 06:06.09 | awal1 | inter-dependency is complex |
| 06:07.03 | awal1 | if you leave a few megabytes of libs auto installed by gnome and it recommends doesn't really matter, i think |
| 06:07.26 | awal1 | i mean it is not a problem |
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| 06:07.40 | miskatonic | I disable recommends and suggests all the time, anyways |
| 06:08.36 | awal1 | if you want to get a system 100% clean of gnome, then reinstall the whole system and check closely what you install |
| 06:09.08 | awal1 | recommends can be really recommended pkgs sometimes |
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| 06:11.55 | miskatonic | Aptitude -R still lists the recommends, and I can read and check and decide for myself to enable individual recommends |
| 06:12.10 | awal1 | miskatonic, so i guess your problem is not having a broken system or unmet dependencies when trying to install X pkgs. you "issue" is that a few autoinstalled pkgs still in your system after removing gnome? |
| 06:12.11 | jelly | Haohmaru, use !ops next time. PM spam or what? |
| 06:12.27 | Haohmaru | yes, on join |
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| 06:13.02 | Haohmaru | he has stopped now |
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| 06:15.53 | awal1 | reverse search (Ctrl-R) stopped working in my Guake terminal (Sid). anyone who have guake on stable can check if it still works? |
| 06:15.57 | Haohmaru | pwned ^ ;P~ |
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| 06:16.45 | miskatonic | gnome was just an example for a complex dependency system. I have avoided desktop environments already at initial install time, so that does not concern me. Problems I have had with various smaller packages which no one else seems to use, anyways |
| 06:17.03 | Haohmaru | jelly i didn't want to spam all teh ops, i know ur usually awake at this time |
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| 06:19.58 | miskatonic | For example, when downgrading from texlive-full to a partial texlive installation while still wanting to keep some fonts and utilities that come with texlive-full but are not included in the subsets |
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| 06:20.47 | awal1 | there isn't a magical pkg management tool for now |
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| 06:21.11 | awal1 | and downgrading process is not really supported by debian tools |
| 06:21.35 | annadane | miskatonic, look into equivs |
| 06:21.40 | annadane | sorry for not suggesting it earlier |
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| 06:21.52 | awal1 | go from a to b is the logical process. but from b to a is a personal adventure |
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| 06:23.40 | awal1 | ... |
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| 06:24.04 | moukloush | Bonjour |
| 06:25.15 | annadane | o/ |
| 06:25.50 | Haohmaru | moi no schprachen ze italiano |
| 06:26.14 | awal1 | dpkg: downgrade |
| 06:26.15 | dpkg | Downgrading is not, nor will ever be supported by apt. Programs change their data in a way that can't be rolled back, and package maintainer scripts support upgrades to new config file formats but not downgrades. Try: "dpkg -i olderversion.deb" or "aptitude install package=version" using "apt-cache policy package" to get the old version number. See also <partial downgrade>, <unstable->testing>, <sdo>. |
| 06:27.29 | miskatonic | I do not taklk about version downgrade but a different form of downgrade |
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| 06:28.19 | jelly | miskatonic, you have several options: if you want to keep MOST the deps, you can use equivs to replace the ones you do not need and keep apt happy. |
| 06:28.58 | jelly | miskatonic, if you need some deps of the huge metapackage, you can mark the desired ones as manually installed |
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| 06:29.28 | jelly | use: apt-mark manual packagename [packagename2 ...] |
| 06:30.26 | miskatonic | to do that, I need to see the consequences of an uninstallation of a metapackage. Aptitude makes it easy to see the consequences and act accordingly. |
| 06:30.27 | jelly | the deps marked manual won't get uninstalled when you remove the parent metapackage |
| 06:30.47 | jelly | miskatonic, all the apt* tools have a -s / --dry-run optoin |
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| 06:31.32 | jelly | also, apt-get won't autoremove automatically like aptitude does. Not sure about apt. |
| 06:31.57 | jelly | so. aptitude -s remove texlive-full |
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| 06:34.25 | saran | I installed debian10 minimal install. I also installed alsa-utils and pulseaudio, and enabled the sound using alsamixer command, but when I play video using mpv, the audio is not playing and I get the following displayed 'Audio/Video desynchronisation detected! Possible reasons include too slow hardware, temporary CPU spikes, broken drivers, and broken files. Audio position will not match to the Video (see |
| 06:34.31 | saran | A-V status field).' I used the following command 'sudo alsactl restore' mentioned in the debian wiki sound configuration. |
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| 06:45.41 | jm_ | have you checked mpv is playing via PA? |
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| 07:16.16 | zatumil | do you recommend install by default? |
| 07:16.49 | annadane | zatumil, for what? |
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| 07:24.01 | Haohmaru | for default purposes - yes |
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| 08:13.20 | tuv | I'm seeing frequent 'Connection failed' errors from apt when I use a local network proxy (ok, it's a little more complicated setup). How can I debug them? I can't see any additional details on the apt client side |
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| 08:14.00 | tuv | Not all operations fail. some succeed, some fail, seemingly randomly |
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| 08:19.37 | Lady_Aleena | I just read an article on how the world will change because of Covid-19. One of the topics was how software developers will be writing and producing better telework software. Will Debian be able to keep up with the new software? Do you think the Linux community is reaching out to software developers to make sure that there are versions of telework software for Linux users? Debian does not like releasing bleeding-edge software, but some |
| 08:19.37 | Lady_Aleena | of the changes in the world may demand it. So, do you think that Linux will keep up? |
| 08:19.50 | Lady_Aleena | Here's the article/section link: https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/business/T012-S001-risky-jobs-that-pay-big-bucks/index.html#kip-slide-21887-13 |
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| 08:19.58 | jm_ | tuv: have you checked if Debug::Acquire::http would help? |
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| 08:20.38 | Lady_Aleena | I think that is the link. |
| 08:21.42 | Lady_Aleena | Sorry, wrong page: https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/business/T057-S003-12-ways-covid-19-will-change-the-tech-industry/index.html#kip-slide-21887-13 |
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| 08:24.08 | tuv | jm_: i'm trying that now. now sure where the debug output should show up though |
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| 08:28.21 | jm_ | tuv: should be stderr |
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| 08:45.00 | tuv | can't it be configured to go to a file? |
| 08:46.10 | tuv | I want to be able to see what happens when apt actions are performed by some automation tool, e.g. ansible |
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| 08:52.46 | Jaami | Hi |
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| 08:53.33 | Jaami | i need non-free smal/netinstall image. |
| 08:54.17 | Jaami | where to find that non-free small/netinstall image |
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| 08:57.22 | Jaami | please give me the small non-free debian image url |
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| 09:08.42 | jelly | !firmware images |
| 09:08.42 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ |
| 09:09.14 | jelly | Jaami, the non-edu one there. So http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-10.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso |
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| 09:21.43 | Jaami | jelly: ty, non-edu is good for me. |
| 09:23.32 | vz_ | mega plus |
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| 09:24.09 | vz_ | anyone on covid impact on timtam exports? |
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| 09:26.00 | jelly | vz_, maybe you want to ask in a different channel, this is #debian for tech support of Debian GNU/Linux |
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| 09:35.03 | jm_ | tuv: apt... 2>foo ? |
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| 09:36.23 | discord_ | Hello, I'm trying to set up iptables to do NAT so I don't run a service as root |
| 09:36.55 | discord_ | I found this as a reference: https://serverfault.com/questions/112795/how-to-run-a-server-on-port-80-as-a-normal-user-on-linux |
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| 09:37.31 | discord_ | this seemed to be the favorite response but it's 12 years old: iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp --dport 80 -j REDIRECT --to-port 8080 |
| 09:37.40 | ratrace | discord_: eh what? you don't need iptables for that, just CAP_NET_BIND_SERVICE |
| 09:37.45 | discord_ | I tried to adapt it and ended up with the following: |
| 09:38.06 | discord_ | ratrace: no as it says in that article I don't want that effecting other java services running on the host |
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| 09:38.20 | ratrace | discord_: it's per PID/process capability |
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| 09:38.53 | ratrace | that answer is incorrect. |
| 09:38.58 | ratrace | (the SO answre) |
| 09:39.04 | discord_ | Did it change from what they are suggesting? |
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| 09:39.19 | discord_ | Ok, do you have a reference? Is it really bad to use IP tables? |
| 09:39.26 | ratrace | discord_: you can set the capaiblity in the service unit and it then affects ONLY that master process (and its children methinks) |
| 09:39.33 | ratrace | discord_: it's nonsense to use iptables for that |
| 09:39.45 | discord_ | why? looks like a simple rule |
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| 09:39.58 | discord_ | I mean not simple for me but almost... |
| 09:40.13 | discord_ | it's like one line, no units, etc. |
| 09:41.20 | ratrace | because the capability exists. using iptables for that is like creating a whole convoluted rube goldberg machine. its only value is comedy and "Because I can". |
| 09:41.27 | ratrace | but do whatever you want. you've got the information now. |
| 09:41.30 | discord_ | ok ratrace I will accept your opinion as I ponder it further. Do you have a reference regarding CAP_NET_BIND_SERVICE |
| 09:41.40 | discord_ | ? |
| 09:42.15 | discord_ | ratrace: I recall long ago it was pretty common for people to use IP tables, and I think before that they used IP chains... |
| 09:42.32 | discord_ | but yeah do you have a reference I can follow quickly?? |
| 09:42.32 | ratrace | discord_: AmbientCapabilities=CAP_NET_BIND_SERVICE |
| 09:42.39 | discord_ | ?? |
| 09:43.10 | ratrace | discord_: you have a systemd unit for the service I presume? if not, why not? use the AmbientCapabilities setting of the service unit. |
| 09:43.31 | ratrace | see systemd.exec(5) for more info on that |
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| 09:45.03 | ksk | discord_: most webservers also offer to start as root, and drop privileges after binding to the lowport.. |
| 09:45.45 | ratrace | ksk: isn't the accept() loop still running as root? |
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| 09:46.28 | ksk | yeah thats true, you will still have "some nginx/apache process running as root" :) |
| 09:46.57 | ratrace | but in this case, you run the whole process unprivileged, you just need the CAP to bind to port <1024 |
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| 09:48.31 | ratrace | fwiw I run all the public processes like that, especially nginx |
| 09:48.44 | discord_ | it's not a webserver it's a web application |
| 09:48.58 | ratrace | discord_: does it process HTTP Requests? |
| 09:49.07 | ratrace | I mean if it listens on port 80 then it probably does, right? |
| 09:49.39 | discord_ | I set it up to listen to a port other than 80 and want to forward the incomming port to the service so I don't have to run it as root... |
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| 09:50.20 | ratrace | right so it's a web application with web server functionality (more precisely, it's a HTTP server), and you can run it unprivileged just give it the CAP_NET_BIND_SERVICE capability to bind to port 80 |
| 09:50.33 | ksk | discord_: we got your problem scenario, CAP_NET_BIND is the solution ;) |
| 09:52.48 | discord_ | ok I will look it up... |
| 09:53.38 | ksk | discord_: in 2020 you want to create a systemd service file for your daemons anyways. |
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| 09:53.48 | ksk | then, you just need to add one line, adding the capability. |
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| 09:57.25 | discord_ | ksk iptables says it uses systemd now... |
| 09:58.18 | ratrace | discord_: eh you don't need the iptables service or anything at all. you need it for your java webapp |
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| 10:00.41 | ratrace | (it = service definition via systemd units) |
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| 10:01.42 | discord_ | I'm sorry but I like to be able to set things via the command line to test before I start producing units |
| 10:02.35 | ksk | but that is not the way its meant to be done. |
| 10:02.54 | ratrace | discord_: lolwhat? systemctl start yourservice is not command line-y enough for you? |
| 10:03.20 | ksk | its not easy nor makes any sense to try to mimic all the systemd behaviour "on commandline" |
| 10:03.33 | ratrace | but service manip _IS_ command line ..... |
| 10:03.48 | discord_ | https://wiki.jenkins.io/display/JENKINS/Running+Jenkins+on+Port+80+or+443+using+iptables |
| 10:04.20 | ratrace | discord_: it's jenkins? you wanna run jenkins unprivileged? |
| 10:05.48 | discord_ | what a reference! |
| 10:05.58 | discord_ | no |
| 10:06.01 | discord_ | jenkins |
| 10:06.09 | ratrace | *PLONK* |
| 10:06.14 | discord_ | that just shows how to work with ip tables. he happens to be using jenking |
| 10:06.33 | ratrace | he apparently never heard of capabilities. |
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| 10:07.13 | ratrace | how about this: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/55edtv/how_do_you_allow_an_arbitrary_process_invocation/ |
| 10:07.22 | ratrace | is that enough of a reference? |
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| 10:07.45 | discord_ | I will take a look. about time... |
| 10:08.40 | ratrace | it only says what we've been saying here for some time...... AmbientCapabilities=CAP_NET_BIND_SERVICE in your service unit. |
| 10:09.42 | ratrace | even if you're "just testing" you can whip up a simple service unit for that. that's why it was designed, so people can quickly whip up service management config without resorting to arcane shell scripting |
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| 10:32.01 | discord_ | ratrace: I am giving it a shot... |
| 10:32.51 | discord_ | this is on a solusVM... WIll that work? |
| 10:34.02 | discord_ | ratrace: don't quite follow this part: // use systemd-provided file descriptor instead of binding in Node |
| 10:34.05 | discord_ | 12 |
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| 10:35.38 | discord_ | I don't see where that's specifying ipv6 vs ipb4... |
| 10:36.08 | ratrace | discord_: ENOCONTEXT |
| 10:37.04 | discord_ | ?? |
| 10:37.23 | discord_ | https://gist.github.com/drocsid/6513e2b8cc665495c696a061056c0ca0 |
| 10:37.27 | discord_ | want to edit it? |
| 10:37.52 | discord_ | I don't see where I'm specifying my local port |
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| 10:40.55 | Regor | on login my ext4 partition requires password on udisk2 authentication popup . please link the docs on " udisks2 to mount devices without authentication" applicable to buster . |
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| 11:01.17 | AAAAAA | hello everyone |
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| 11:08.32 | talin | hello. i am really confused with how to create a debian package. i have read and understood the manual approach to doing it, but i can't figure out what tool to use for it. should i use dh_something, dpkg-deb, debmake or something else? which tools are outdated and which are recent? basically i have one .py file and one .conf file that needs to be copied into the filesystem, and i need to ensure that some |
| 11:08.38 | talin | python dependencies are installed. that's it. where do i start? |
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| 11:08.50 | talin | this isn't an official package, just one for my own use |
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| 11:13.59 | n_1-c_k | talin, it's a while since I messed with it but if you haven't seen it yet, the package "maint-guide" might help. |
| 11:15.06 | diogenes_ | i use dpkg-deb --build dirname. |
| 11:15.28 | talin | n_1-c_k: thank you |
| 11:15.45 | talin | diogenes_: so you just move files around manually and then call that command? you don't generate a skeleton first, or anything like that? |
| 11:15.53 | talin | using e.g. debmake or something |
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| 11:18.10 | diogenes_ | talin, yes nanualy create DEBIA subfolder, control, usr but more common opt dir and place all the needed files and icons. |
| 11:18.24 | diogenes_ | manualy* |
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| 11:18.41 | talin | okay, cool :-) i'll look into that. thank you |
| 11:18.54 | diogenes_ | DEBIAN subfolder* |
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| 11:32.03 | L0aD1nG | hello |
| 11:32.16 | Haohmaru | hai |
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| 11:32.51 | L0aD1nG | i would like to ask if i install a program not from debian databases, with an installer where should i look on the system for its file? |
| 11:32.57 | L0aD1nG | s/file/files |
| 11:33.10 | Haohmaru | who knows |
| 11:33.12 | L0aD1nG | if for example i would like to uninstall it |
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| 11:33.42 | Haohmaru | if the installer wanted root access then it could be anywhere |
| 11:34.13 | L0aD1nG | i ve been on that situation before like a week and it was all about the /opt, what i found with the find command at least |
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| 11:35.03 | L0aD1nG | Haohmaru: i think it didnt ask for root but not sure cause the program was installed like 2 years ago |
| 11:35.05 | Haohmaru | afaik, programs on don't get installed like.. "in one place" .. each program's different files go into different system directories |
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| 11:35.49 | Haohmaru | the exe might be in /usr/bin, some of the images might be in /usr/share/, and so on |
| 11:35.52 | L0aD1nG | i hope it was in the /opt and now got rid of all its files |
| 11:36.56 | L0aD1nG | Haohmaru: /usr/bin has a sym link just that it seems that was running everything on /opt, but all this from what i saw with the find command |
| 11:37.57 | Haohmaru | symlink? well i don't think normal users are allowed to make symlinks in there |
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| 11:39.52 | L0aD1nG | Haohmaru: so i am mistaken right? it was installed with root privileges... |
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| 11:40.09 | ksk | L0aD1nG: how did you install that software in the first place? |
| 11:40.22 | Haohmaru | it probably wanted root |
| 11:40.27 | ksk | apart from reversing the installer, or asking the vendors support, we cant really help you. |
| 11:40.51 | ksk | if it was a third party debian package, you can of course just remove it via apt. |
| 11:40.55 | Haohmaru | yeah, ask the author or whoever made that installer |
| 11:40.55 | L0aD1nG | ksk: i think with his own installer, and the program was the Android Studio. |
| 11:41.19 | ksk | android studio in its latest form just unpacks itself on linux imho, no installer. |
| 11:41.24 | Haohmaru | ah crapdroid.. so.. google |
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| 11:42.43 | L0aD1nG | ksk: maybe 2-3 years ago, so i am not sure for the method but i am sure it wasnt via apt. |
| 11:43.27 | Haohmaru | if they give you .deb then you install it with apt/dpkg/gdebi, and i think it should be easily uninstallable like normal |
| 11:44.12 | L0aD1nG | Haohmaru: i tried to uninstall it and search it both with dpkg and apt without any result. |
| 11:44.50 | Haohmaru | *shrug* then |
| 11:45.00 | Haohmaru | better try to find the installer |
| 11:45.07 | Haohmaru | and see what it looks like |
| 11:45.34 | oiaohm | L0aD1nG: I have used debain for over 20 years. dpkg or apt or apt-get would be your normal package management bits you would do uninstalls from. |
| 11:45.45 | oiaohm | L0aD1nG: if using the command line. |
| 11:46.03 | Haohmaru | i think i've seen only one thing with an "installer" and it was crapvidia non-free drivers, with a fuggly .sh script |
| 11:46.10 | L0aD1nG | maybe it still exists i didnt thought about that let me see, although now i followed (i guess) the wrong strategy manually rm. |
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| 11:47.02 | L0aD1nG | oiaohm: i think it had his own installer and had nothing to do with terminal but again i am not sure |
| 11:47.04 | Haohmaru | (luckily i don't have crapvidia on my debian) |
| 11:47.07 | halia | ? |
| 11:47.55 | L0aD1nG | good point Haohmaru, found this on Downloads "android-studio-ide-143.3101438-linux.zip" |
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| 11:48.42 | Haohmaru | either look inside it for clues, or find the "install instructions" for it and see what they said |
| 11:48.43 | oiaohm | L0aD1nG: darn crud. I just looked up android studio install page yes it manual install crap. I now remember why I installed it by flatpak so I had a clean uninstall. |
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| 11:51.11 | L0aD1nG | either way now i did the wrong thing searching "everything" and manually removing it so even if there is an uninstaller it wont work properly i guess |
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| 11:51.50 | oiaohm | L0aD1nG: also it does not help that those who make Android Studio only provide install instructions not uninstall ones. |
| 11:52.24 | Haohmaru | google is evil, didn't u know |
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| 11:53.15 | oiaohm | L0aD1nG: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian what you have done in fact disobeys the advice here. Some ways I would say open a bug against Android studio if possible asking them to tell you what you should have deleted and so on to remove the program. |
| 11:53.46 | oiaohm | They are not packing the thing for simple removal they should be picking up the messes. |
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| 11:54.26 | L0aD1nG | oiaohm: it was the only thing that it was not supported by debian i had in my system. I know... |
| 11:55.14 | L0aD1nG | well i may still have... well i guess configuration files? i should check /etc maybe? |
| 11:55.17 | oiaohm | L0aD1nG: really I would think those who made the problem would be able to give better advice on what their installer script has done. |
| 11:55.48 | oiaohm | Because this is not like a flatpak or a debian package that part of those is how to uninstall the thing. |
| 11:56.06 | L0aD1nG | oiaohm: its logical, okay thank you for the advice. |
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| 11:57.29 | oiaohm | Next time you find sometime like this look at flatpak/snap/appimage.. basically a solution that part of install include a clean uninstall option. |
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| 12:00.14 | L0aD1nG | oiaohm: thanks for the info i will check it |
| 12:01.00 | L0aD1nG | Haohmaru: you had a point i found some configuration file via the txt information file on the zip, on my home folder.. |
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| 12:03.39 | Jaami | Hi, my 2TB USB with 4 partitions is not recognized by unetboorin and rufus. what is the best tool name? tyring to boot usb with non-free net debian. |
| 12:04.27 | abrotman | dpkg: win32diskimager |
| 12:04.28 | dpkg | win32diskimager is much more reliable than <unetbootin> for copying ISO images to USB sticks and you can download it from http://sf.net/projects/win32diskimager/ . Adjust the file mask from *.img to *.* if it doesn't show Debian .iso images. See <usb install> and <install debian> for further details. |
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| 12:09.11 | afidegnum | is there a way to limit a samba file share size per user ? |
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| 12:10.36 | jelly | Jaami, mind you, writing to usb with win32diskimager will overwrite/lose all data previously present on the device |
| 12:12.02 | Jaami | jelly: if it is about the active partition on USB then no issue because made 4 fresh partitions with bootice |
| 12:12.57 | jelly | the installer image has its own partition table. |
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| 12:13.21 | Jaami | oh |
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| 12:14.13 | Jaami | hmm, im not sure what i can do to avoid that problem. but for a try my other 3 partitions are hidden |
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| 12:16.14 | Jaami | :) let me try , i will get back to you if that means all 4 partions will be gone |
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| 12:20.42 | Jaami | jelly: win32diskimager immediately picked the only active visible partition. that is good to go i believe. |
| 12:21.22 | Jaami | this was not done by any other of the five tools i have used so far |
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| 12:22.24 | L0aD1nG | Jaami: did you also tried universal usb installer? |
| 12:24.14 | Jaami | universal usb installer was there on alternativeto.net but really i thought that was not good |
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| 12:29.21 | Jaami | rebooting |
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| 12:34.10 | jelly | uh, it should write the whole device not just the partition |
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| 12:40.51 | vlt | Hello. What are the kernel cmdline params one could try to get rid of "ACPI Exception: AE_NOT_FOUND, ..." when booting a Debian live iso in "MacBook Parallels" virtualization environment? |
| 12:42.06 | jelly | vlt, ignore those, unless something actually fails to work |
| 12:43.42 | vlt | jelly: It seems to fail. The problem is it’s not myself trying but someone I gave the iso image to try on their Mac and I have no further details right here :-| |
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| 12:44.25 | vlt | I just got a grumpy "doesn't work". |
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| 12:58.05 | jelly | vlt, what fails, specifically? boot after installation? installation? |
| 12:58.11 | jelly | !doesn't work |
| 12:58.11 | dpkg | "Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>. |
| 12:59.00 | jelly | I get ACPI fw issues on servers that otherwise work normally 24/7/365 |
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| 13:04.07 | kdksfjsd | hi |
| 13:04.27 | kdksfjsd | Is there a script that i can run on my linux terminal so i can remote control my server thru a irc bot ? |
| 13:04.41 | kdksfjsd | like basic cmds / uptime / uname ps x ... and so on |
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| 13:09.45 | Jaami | Hi, bad thing about debian non-free net image is that it look for cd-rom drivers. please let me know if i can use other non-free image that need no cd-rom to load files |
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| 13:13.33 | Jaami | having 4 partitions on USB with only 1 visible and active , is no problem and debian setup started. but main menu when go for cd-rom checking, there is the problem. why debian setup look for cd-rom? |
| 13:14.14 | joepublic | by CD-ROM, in this case, it means the set of files on your USB stick |
| 13:14.51 | Jaami | joepublic: is that mean the usb cannoy have 4 partitions? |
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| 13:15.33 | Jaami | cannot* |
| 13:15.57 | joepublic | not specifically, though your four partition monomania is contrary to the procedure of just copying the install image to a usb stick, that image having its own partitions. |
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| 13:18.08 | Jaami | i can smile at this point because i need no more than one partition at this time. i think to save time best way to go is re-partitions with just one |
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| 13:20.01 | Jaami | 2TB USB with just 1 partition is ugly though |
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| 13:21.05 | Jaami | let me do it |
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| 13:40.05 | Jaami | Hi, non-free net image always go for cd-rom driver check while my usb has only one bootable partition with debian setup. either the image is bad or my usb drive . how to bypass the cd-rom driver check on debin main menu setup ? |
| 13:41.27 | Jaami | there is no cd-rom in my laptop |
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| 13:42.41 | Jaami | can someone give me the url of debain image without cd-rom checking? |
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| 13:43.49 | L0aD1nG | Jaami: i guess the bios settings are okay for the usb boot...right? |
| 13:44.05 | Jaami | i had 4 partitions on USB, i deleted all and one active partition on usb when boot look for cd-rom which i dont have. what am i doing wrong? |
| 13:44.22 | Jaami | L0aD1nG: yes, boot process start from USB |
| 13:44.35 | L0aD1nG | ohh right, there is no optical drive at all. |
| 13:44.53 | vlt | jelly: I have to ask what specifically fails. It’s a Debian live USB iso I created using live-build. It works perfectly fine on all "real" machines and a Xen host I tested on. But there’s always that one guy who wants to run it on his Mac :rolleyes: |
| 13:44.55 | Jaami | yes, no optical drive at all |
| 13:45.25 | L0aD1nG | Jaami: did you search on the internet about it? |
| 13:45.26 | vlt | jelly: Thanks for your help so far. |
| 13:45.59 | greycat | !firmware images |
| 13:45.59 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ |
| 13:46.37 | Jaami | L0aD1nG: please give me hint on what went wrong or could be wrong, so i can go for search on net |
| 13:47.26 | L0aD1nG | Jaami: does what dpkg said help you somehow? can you try it? |
| 13:47.48 | L0aD1nG | what greycat pointed out their, check it |
| 13:47.48 | Jaami | L0aD1nG: i will try that in a minute |
| 13:48.05 | Jaami | let me download the image that dpkg gave |
| 13:48.12 | greycat | Jaami: are you installing *onto* USB, or are you trying to boot the installer *from* USB to install onto a hard drive or SSD? |
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| 13:48.50 | Jaami | greycat: i am booting from usb to install on HDD |
| 13:48.51 | dreamer | hmm, trying to upgrade an old container of mine. was still running jessie. going to stretch first: http://paste.debian.net/1139115/ |
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| 13:49.23 | greycat | Then you don't talk about "partitions on USB". Writing the installer image onto the USB device obliterates all content currently on the USB device, including partitions. |
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| 13:50.34 | Jaami | greycat: sounds goot, but thats what i did last time. removed all partitions and left only one active on USB. |
| 13:50.45 | jm_ | dreamer: you need to find out why it's not starting |
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| 13:51.26 | themill | Jaami: precisely how are you copying the image onto the usb stuck? |
| 13:51.42 | dreamer | jm_: the old nginx is still running |
| 13:51.50 | dreamer | but even when I stop it the install won't work |
| 13:52.32 | dreamer | is confused |
| 13:53.16 | jm_ | dreamer: the postinst tries to start it and that failed is my guess, you can try sticking "set -x" in its postinst script to see the details |
| 13:53.42 | dreamer | where can I find this? |
| 13:53.53 | greycat | /var/lib/dpkg/info/ |
| 13:53.55 | Jaami | themill: i use bootice to make/remove partitions then format the partition(s) then use Win32DiskImager to make the usb bootable with non-free net image i downloaded today. someone gave me the link here in this channel |
| 13:54.31 | dreamer | instead of `set -e` or additionally ? |
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| 13:55.40 | greycat | additional |
| 13:56.20 | dreamer | that doesn't really give any new info: http://paste.debian.net/1139119/ |
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| 13:56.43 | GarySmith2222 | This software is so stabilize |
| 13:56.44 | greycat | yeah, you'll need to look at nginx logs to see why it's not working |
| 13:57.18 | jm_ | dreamer: ok so check its logs then, hopefully it will give the reason there |
| 13:57.53 | dreamer | apparently something in my config. weird |
| 13:58.09 | dreamer | (had a mail{} directive .. I guess from some trials I did years ago ..) |
| 13:58.18 | dreamer | thnx :) |
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| 13:59.11 | Jaami | themill: here is the url for the image and it is the same i used to downlaod firmware https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-10.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso |
| 13:59.56 | Jaami | i mean dpkg gave me same link again |
| 14:00.07 | greycat | And how are you writing the image to the device? |
| 14:00.33 | Jaami | greycat: i use win32diskimager |
| 14:01.18 | jm_ | np |
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| 14:12.32 | Jaami | good to go with other debian flavor |
| 14:12.34 | ksk | If I remember correctly, some FAQ mentioned https://rufus.ie/ - worked for me in the past. |
| 14:12.41 | Jaami | thanks |
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| 14:26.17 | L0aD1nG | thanks for helping me guys |
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| 14:48.22 | kryl | hi, I have a strange problem with my wifi adapter. I use NetworkManager, but I have the same results with low levels stuff like "iw". I can use SSID with my internal card but the level is low. I added an externel wifi adapter (two differents adapter for testing) and I can see more networks because it's more sensible including all list from my external BUT excluding my router ! |
| 14:48.48 | kryl | I really don't understand why my external adapter who can see more networks can't see my router and my internal is able to do it |
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| 14:49.10 | somiaj | do you have the firmware for the wifi card installed (debian doesn't include non-free firmware by default) |
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| 14:49.22 | somiaj | dmesg | grep -i firmware (any errors about unable to load firmware) |
| 14:49.45 | kryl | my external adapter can see and connect to more networks excluding my router. |
| 14:49.51 | kryl | it works well... |
| 14:50.05 | somiaj | check to see you have the firmware installed |
| 14:50.06 | kryl | it's like if there is a filter in my system. If I boot an other system it works... :-) |
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| 14:51.32 | kryl | somiaj, http://ix.io/2hbm << here is the result of dmesg | grep -i firmware |
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| 14:52.35 | somiaj | is your interal card that isn't working intel (iwlwifi) or atheros (ath9k) |
| 14:52.42 | kryl | I also tryied to disable my other card with : blacklist iwlwifi and rmmod iwlnvm iwlwifi. But I continue to see all SSID except my router with the external adapter |
| 14:52.55 | kryl | both of them works... |
| 14:53.04 | kryl | the internal is on iwlwifi |
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| 14:53.26 | kryl | the signal of the internal one is really low (it's a hardware but of my laptop apparently) |
| 14:53.26 | somiaj | maybe the issue is somewhere else, firmware looks to be fine. |
| 14:53.34 | kryl | that's why I want to use an external adapter |
| 14:53.35 | somiaj | (that is just often an issue on debian) |
| 14:53.57 | kryl | but for a very strange reason only my router can't appear in the list ! |
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| 14:56.32 | kryl | you will see the results here : http://ix.io/2hbo |
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| 14:57.20 | kryl | "nmcli dev wifi list" the first block is the external adapter and the second one the internal card... the router SSID expose : zit & zit-hd... |
| 14:57.31 | kryl | and I expect to see them in the more sensible card. |
| 14:57.46 | kryl | it's really strange :-) and if I use an other adapter with a different MAC I have the same problem |
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| 15:06.41 | somiaj | could there be an issue with the router? Do you have it set to broadcast its ssid? |
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| 15:12.38 | kryl | somiaj, I just try both of the external adapter to an other laptop with "windows" and they can see the ssid. |
| 15:12.55 | kryl | it's really coming from my system |
| 15:13.10 | kryl | I'll try to reboot to "windows" on the same laptop but I'm pretty sure it will works. |
| 15:13.25 | kryl | I also parsed all /etc seeking for SSID name "zit" without results. |
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| 15:22.47 | Lope | I just did a debootstrap onto a USB drive, it seemed to complete successfully, but when I try to chroot into it (with the boot partition bind mounted) it said I have no name@myhostname |
| 15:23.02 | Lope | and I wasn't able to do anything in it really, couldn't launch vi, or apt etc. |
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| 15:23.21 | Lope | ratrace, you're a bit of a debootstrap veteran, any ideas? :) |
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| 15:24.19 | somiaj | 'it said', what is it. What is the exact output of 'chroot /path/to/usb' |
| 15:25.16 | Lope | bash: warning: setlocale: LC_ALL: cannot change locale (en_GB.UTF-8) |
| 15:25.39 | Heavy91 | Lope: have you tried to specify explicitely, e.g. "chroot /path/to/usb /bin/bash"? |
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| 15:25.40 | Lope | then I get a shell: I have no name!@my-hostname:/# |
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| 15:25.47 | Lope | Heavy91, tried that also. |
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| 15:26.02 | greycat | Ignore the locale error, just do export LANG=C and live with it. |
| 15:26.14 | greycat | It's not like you need fancy shit when you're in an emergency rescue. |
| 15:26.42 | Heavy91 | Lope you seem to have a custom "active" shell prompt which does not work in the chroot environment. I think you can ignore that. |
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| 15:27.07 | greycat | yes, simplifying your prompt may also help |
| 15:27.21 | Lope | Heavy91, probably that's what the error is. But I don't care about that. |
| 15:27.25 | Lope | I can't install nano |
| 15:27.34 | Lope | `apt install nano` is not working |
| 15:27.40 | Heavy91 | Lope error msg? |
| 15:27.53 | Lope | I can't even run `ip a` |
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| 15:28.02 | greycat | PATH set wrong? |
| 15:28.04 | Lope | bash: ip: command not found |
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| 15:28.18 | Lope | checking |
| 15:28.23 | greycat | ip is in /bin and /sbin on mine... is your system completely broken? |
| 15:28.31 | Lope | path looks fine: PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin |
| 15:28.32 | Heavy91 | Lope /usr/bin/ip a |
| 15:28.53 | Lope | bash: /usr/bin/ip: No such file or directory |
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| 15:29.22 | greycat | either you chrooted to the wrong place, or your system is severely broken |
| 15:29.36 | Lope | yeah it seems the debootstrap didn't work properly. |
| 15:29.41 | Lope | I'll format it and try again |
| 15:29.43 | Heavy91 | Lope ip is in package iproute2. I think this is not by default in debootstrap |
| 15:29.57 | Lope | it just seemed to end abruptly after extracting a bunch of stuff. no error. |
| 15:30.04 | Heavy91 | can you call "apt search ..."? |
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| 15:30.38 | Lope | I've not seen this weirdness before. |
| 15:30.40 | Lope | whoami: cannot find name for user ID 0: No such file or directory |
| 15:31.08 | Lope | Heavy91, okay. But apt is all weird, can't even install nano. |
| 15:31.08 | Heavy91 | Lope are you mixing up architectures? amd64 binary on i386 kernel? Missing libraries? |
| 15:31.14 | Lope | I'm going to nuke it and reinstall. |
| 15:31.24 | Lope | No, my host is amd64 and I did an amd64 arch |
| 15:31.38 | somiaj | Lope: Why are you debootstraping to a usb? |
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| 15:31.39 | Heavy91 | hmm.. strange thing |
| 15:31.54 | greycat | the "whoami" error sounds like /etc/passwd or /etc/nsswitch.conf is missing (or both) |
| 15:31.56 | somiaj | Lope: this an external usb drive, thumb drive (just courious what your overall goal is) |
| 15:31.59 | Lope | somiaj, cos the debian installer sucks imho |
| 15:32.02 | Heavy91 | what filesystem does your usb device have? |
| 15:32.17 | Lope | I pretty much always debootstrap, for the last year or so on every install |
| 15:32.21 | somiaj | Lope: That doesn't really answer the question. Why are you installing on a usb drive? |
| 15:32.40 | Lope | somiaj, I'm debootstrapping, then when done I'll install it in another machine |
| 15:33.02 | somiaj | Lope: ahh okay, just courious. |
| 15:33.12 | Lope | It's much nicer to debootstrap from a working system. the net install is so lame, it doesn't even have fdisk. |
| 15:33.15 | Lope | and no apt either. |
| 15:33.40 | somiaj | the netinstall has fdisk, cfdisk, parted |
| 15:33.41 | Lope | I mean not that I want to complain, I love debian. I just think the net install could be way better. |
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| 15:33.57 | Lope | somiaj, when I opened a shell from the netinstall fdisk didn't work, but perhaps path was wrong. |
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| 15:34.12 | Lope | I didn't want to suffer so I just decided to do it from my installed system. |
| 15:34.20 | Heavy91 | Lope a chroot env does probably not work when the file system is not POSIX compliant. What did you use? |
| 15:34.29 | Lope | Heavy91, ext4 |
| 15:34.38 | somiaj | Lope: do you use expert mode, you sometimes have to load additional .udebs for stuff like that. fdisk is kinda depericated, I think parted is default, but you can load additional udebs for fdisk, cfdisk (what i use) |
| 15:34.41 | Lope | ext4 on luks |
| 15:35.09 | Lope | ah, I've not learned to use parted, I'm very familiar with fdisk. |
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| 15:35.29 | Lope | okay, let me retry this debootstrap and see. |
| 15:35.40 | Lope | maybe 2nd time's a charm. |
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| 15:36.42 | Lope | should I do my bind mounts before I debootstrap into the dir? |
| 15:36.45 | Lope | or after? |
| 15:37.02 | greycat | there should be, like, instructions that tell you how to debootstrap |
| 15:37.13 | greycat | I would read them and then do whatever they say. |
| 15:37.18 | Lope | I'll try debootstrapping before I mount stuff into it. |
| 15:37.43 | Lope | ah, last time I looked the debootstrap instructions weren't great. will just give it another go quick. |
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| 15:39.54 | Lope | when I did the debootstrap earlier I specified --arch amd64. assuming that it was clever enough to realize that I'm ON amd64 and it can do a single stage debootstrap. |
| 15:40.11 | Lope | But maybe it's not clever enough to realize that so I've omitted arch. Will see what happens. |
| 15:40.27 | Lope | that I have no name thing kind of reminds me of an incomplete 2 stage debootstrap |
| 15:40.43 | Lope | when you're doing a cross arch debootstrap |
| 15:41.29 | Lope | okay it finished differently. |
| 15:41.40 | Lope | this time it ended saying Base system installed successfully! |
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| 15:41.50 | Lope | so I guess --arch amd64 is a nono. |
| 15:42.05 | Heavy91 | Lope: debootstrap should work on an empty directory. Do the mounts after it has finished |
| 15:42.22 | greycat | or the first time failed for some reason unrelated to your --arch amd64 option |
| 15:42.31 | Lope | okay, the debootstrap immediately looks much better. |
| 15:42.36 | Lope | none of that I have no name stuff. |
| 15:42.49 | Lope | apt update is working. |
| 15:42.49 | apt | ...but update is already something else... |
| 15:42.59 | Lope | okay so the --arch amd64 was the problem, I reckon. |
| 15:43.30 | Lope | Heavy91, yeah, I did the mounts afterwards this time, so it's either that or not supplying arch, hehe. |
| 15:44.28 | Lope | yeah, the debootstrap is working 100% now. |
| 15:44.37 | Heavy91 | Lope have you checked the mount options? Maybe some strange options like nodev, noexec, nosuid? |
| 15:45.01 | Heavy91 | Lope ok so is it solved? |
| 15:45.05 | Lope | I mount the same every time. |
| 15:45.10 | Lope | Heavy91, 100% solved. |
| 15:45.29 | Heavy91 | Lope fine ;-) |
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| 15:47.15 | Lope | in south africa we say "yawellnofine" |
| 15:47.38 | Lope | (just kidding, strange people say that, and non strange people say it as a joke_ |
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| 16:30.38 | Surfer2011 | hello, i just installed debian 10 on my laptop and i cannot activate the ssh service, can you help me? |
| 16:31.06 | greycat | Surfer2011: apt install openssh-server |
| 16:31.11 | Surfer2011 | tried all kind of things update, upgrade, install openssh-server |
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| 16:32.14 | Surfer2011 | greycat: tells me it depends on openssh-client 1:7.9pl-10+deb10u1) but 1:79p1-10+deb10u2 should be installed |
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| 16:32.29 | Surfer2011 | and depends on openssh-sftp-server |
| 16:32.40 | greycat | sounds like you need to do "apt update" first to get an updated pkg list |
| 16:32.52 | Surfer2011 | did that |
| 16:32.53 | greycat | !buster sources.list |
| 16:32.53 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list". |
| 16:33.53 | Surfer2011 | missing the first one |
| 16:34.05 | Surfer2011 | why is this first one missing on a totaly fresh install? |
| 16:36.26 | Surfer2011 | deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main error could not resolved |
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| 16:38.40 | greycat | that might be related to why the installer didn't use that source |
| 16:39.03 | greycat | try again, and if it keeps failing, you may need to look at your local firewall settings or whatever to figure out why |
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| 16:42.19 | Surfer2011 | firewall was a good hint :-) thanks |
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| 16:53.37 | Surfer2011 | using this tutorial (https://willhaley.com/blog/custom-debian-live-environment/) how would i get (A) ssh aktivated by default in this live image and (B) add-place custom files in the user/Documents folder |
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| 16:58.20 | zumba_addict | just found out that SELinux is a Redhat thing. What does Debian offer? |
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| 17:00.58 | sney | it was invented by redhat people but it's been in mainline linux (and thus available in every distro) since the 2.6 kernel |
| 17:01.15 | nkuttler | !selinux |
| 17:01.15 | dpkg | Security Enhanced Linux (SELinux) is NSA's port of the FLASK Security Architecture to Linux. Also it can make your system unbootable if you uninstall it. Unofficial FAQ: http://www.crypt.gen.nz/selinux/faq.html . http://wiki.debian.org/SELinux http://selinuxproject.org/ #selinux on irc.freenode.net. See also <apparmor>, <tomoyo>. |
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| 17:02.03 | zumba_addict | oh so it's not just the redhat distro but in kernel itself |
| 17:03.12 | sney | yes. |
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| 17:03.43 | sney | redhat differs in that they turn it on by default, iirc |
| 17:04.33 | zumba_addict | got it |
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| 17:09.39 | nulleip | linux-5.6.3 is throwing error with `make deb-pkg` after aplying patch patch-5.6.2-3 |
| 17:09.43 | nulleip | dpkg-source: info: use the '3.0 (quilt)' format to have separate and documented changes to upstream files, see dpkg-source(1) |
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| 17:09.46 | nulleip | dpkg-source: error: unrepresentable changes to source |
| 17:10.25 | nickgaw | dpkg docbook |
| 17:10.25 | dpkg | docbook is probably a sgml or xml dtd used for docmentation authoring. documentation for it can be found at http://www.docbook.org/tdg5/en/html/docbook.html. Install: docbook, docbook{-doc,-styles,-xml,-xt,-too}, sgml{-base,-data}, task-sgml, task-sgml-dev, jade. See: docbook-markup |
| 17:10.55 | nulleip | I duplicate this from #linux, sorry, I think that maybe is debian related |
| 17:11.07 | nickgaw | dpkg owner |
| 17:11.07 | dpkg | dondelelcaro owns me |
| 17:11.27 | annadane | nickgaw, please don't spam the bot |
| 17:11.30 | annadane | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:12.03 | nickgaw | I did not know you could do that I am trying to find out information so you are saying /msg dpkg instead? |
| 17:13.01 | annadane | yeah, find the information from dpkg by private messaging dpkg so it doesn't fill up the support channel when people have questions |
| 17:13.05 | auspugs | nickgaw that is exactly what he is saying, if you put a "/" at the start, makes it a command |
| 17:13.23 | annadane | you can also find stuff here https://ircbots.debian.net/factoids/ |
| 17:13.39 | nickgaw | yes I knew that but I did not know that you could private message the bot. |
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| 17:14.47 | nickgaw | How would I go about contacting the owner of that bot? |
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| 17:19.39 | cybercrypto | nickgaw: start your investigation by reading debian wiki, related to communication channels. |
| 17:22.36 | nickgaw | What I was trying to do is find a way to add some accessibility information to the dpkg bot as I am totally blind and it does not know a lot about accessibility this is why I was trying to contact the owner of dpkg? |
| 17:23.08 | greycat | The bot just spits back factoids that we teach it. Everyone can teach it. It doesn't require the owner's intervention. |
| 17:23.37 | nickgaw | So how do I teach it something and is the source around? |
| 17:25.36 | sney | you /msg the bot and tell it 'factoidname is factoid content' and if factoidname isn't taken, it will reply "ok" |
| 17:25.42 | sney | and then it has a new factoid. |
| 17:26.00 | sney | you can also correct existing ones by saying 'no, factoidname is factoid new content' |
| 17:26.10 | cybercrypto | nickgaw: Please, read here first and cleaer out your main doubts. You will problably understand it better after the reading. https://ircbots.debian.net/judd/ |
| 17:26.23 | nickgaw | ok I will try that once I learn something I know won't change in the near future can you reteach it something if something changes? |
| 17:26.29 | sney | judd and dpkg are completely different and behave differently |
| 17:26.29 | greycat | judd works very differently from dpkg |
| 17:26.53 | sney | nickgaw: the website linked earlier for searching the factoids also contains their revision history |
| 17:27.21 | annadane | you *don't* want users being able to freely edit judd |
| 17:27.22 | nickgaw | What codebase is that bot? |
| 17:27.38 | greycat | dpkg, what are you |
| 17:27.39 | dpkg | I am an infobot. For more information, ask me about <infobot>. |
| 17:27.43 | sney | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:27.43 | dpkg | You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, sney |
| 17:27.53 | greycat | !infobot |
| 17:27.53 | dpkg | Infobot is an IRC bot that is geared towards remembering "factoids", and repeating them back to people on request. It supports many additional features, such as google lookups, dictionary, spell checker, debian package checks, and more. See http://infobot.sf.net/ for more. |
| 17:27.53 | sney | hush |
| 17:28.02 | cybercrypto | greycat: I know. It is clear that our friend nickgaw miss concepts about irc/bot commands. My suggestion is to read docs and dig a bit more before anything else. |
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| 17:28.24 | greycat | cybercrypto: so don't point him to a page on judd, when he's asking about dpkg |
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| 17:29.16 | cybercrypto | Ok, so use this links instead, nickgaw : https://ircbots.debian.net/factoids/ |
| 17:29.18 | nickgaw | I have used that other bot before and thanks for those pages I did not know they existed so am reading them now. |
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| 17:31.30 | cybercrypto | nickgaw: Yeap. dpkg info and docs are also there, if you will. |
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| 17:40.10 | nickgaw | Just wondering I know as I have stopped epic5 from telling me when users join and leave but can most irc clients be made to stop telling you when someone changes their nickname or is that something you kind of need to know? |
| 17:41.15 | sney | nickgaw: current hexchat has toggles for join/parts and nick changes. it varies by client, though. |
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| 17:41.59 | nickgaw | Is hexchat a GUI or console program? |
| 17:42.04 | sney | most irc clients can be expanded with plugins and scripts, and cleaning up data messages is a common request, so those scripts likely exist for all irc clients |
| 17:42.07 | sney | hexchat is gui |
| 17:42.30 | nickgaw | I will have to see how well it works with orca. |
| 17:43.17 | sney | it's a very minimal gui. most of the code is from the early 00s and it can still be controlled with / commands like irssi |
| 17:43.44 | nickgaw | Can you run it is console mode with X windows not running? |
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| 17:45.06 | cybercrypto | nickgaw: irssi is console mode and does not depend on X, you run it via terminal. I use and like irssi |
| 17:45.22 | greycat | irssi is a very popular terminal IRC client |
| 17:45.33 | nickgaw | Is it newer then epic5 and still being maintained? |
| 17:45.55 | greycat | ,v irssi |
| 17:45.57 | judd | Package: irssi on amd64 -- jessie: 0.8.17-1+deb8u5; jessie-security: 0.8.17-1+deb8u5; stretch: 1.0.7-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 1.0.7-1~deb9u1; stretch-backports: 1.2.0-2~bpo9+1; buster: 1.2.0-2; bullseye: 1.2.2-1+b1; sid: 1.2.2-1+b1 |
| 17:46.02 | greycat | looks like it. |
| 17:46.30 | annadane | if we're talking about irssi i may as well at least mention weechat, i don't have very much experience with it but it seems to have a lot of cool features as well |
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| 17:47.33 | annadane | i think china has a "WeChat" or something, not to be confused with that :P |
| 17:47.33 | nickgaw | Why do most users on irc no longer like when I want to use /dcc to send files directly to them they want me to put it in dropbox and send it that way? |
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| 17:49.09 | Surfer2011 | https://willhaley.com/blog/custom-debian-live-environment/ can someone help me on the last part getting back an iso file from it but for amd64 ?! won'T get it to work |
| 17:49.18 | greycat | A lot of people are not running IRC clients directly on Internet-facing hosts. They do it through firewalls, through "bouncers", and so on. |
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| 17:55.57 | jelly | weechat has a client/server thing of its own doesn't it |
| 17:55.59 | nickgaw | How easy is it to setup gcc to compile for x86 on my x64 system and just use all of the same components for x86 that I can use on x64? |
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| 17:57.30 | jelly | nickgaw, it depends on what your goal is; many -dev packages are still not coinstallable (you can't have 32bit dev libs and headers coexist with 64bit native ones) |
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| 17:58.04 | jelly | it's easy to set up a separate 32bit chroot for building things |
| 17:58.19 | jelly | and then build in a native 32bit environment |
| 17:58.27 | *** join/#debian DammitJim (~DammitJim@173.227.148.6) |
| 17:59.14 | nickgaw | ok so just make a chroot like with debootstrap? |
| 17:59.20 | greycat | that would be a whole lot easier than trying to set up a cross-compiling environment, honestly |
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| 18:04.28 | L0aD1nG | hello there |
| 18:04.33 | sney | hi |
| 18:04.55 | L0aD1nG | is it true that stretch will be supported till 2022?? |
| 18:05.03 | L0aD1nG | seems to me too long. |
| 18:05.22 | sney | https://wiki.debian.org/LTS |
| 18:05.23 | sney | yep |
| 18:06.26 | nickgaw | Why are they supporting Stretch until then? |
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| 18:06.47 | L0aD1nG | i will upgrade soon though |
| 18:06.49 | greycat | !stable |
| 18:06.49 | dpkg | [stable] The status of a Debian release when no packages will be added or version-bumped, and changes will only fix security issues and critical bugs. Packages can be removed in rare circumstances. The current stable version of Debian is Buster (10.x); ask me about <releases>. Security bugs are fixed in stable by backporting the fix to the stable version (ask me about <security backports>). https://wiki.debian.org/DebianStable |
| 18:07.32 | sney | oldstable is supported so that systems that can't upgrade right away, for whatever reason, are given extra time to move to stable |
| 18:07.47 | greycat | People running production servers and other critical systems may not want to ride a roller coaster of upgrading every 2 years. |
| 18:08.06 | nickgaw | If you wanted to still install oldstable or an earlier release can that be done? |
| 18:08.22 | greycat | yes |
| 18:08.34 | sney | yes, though it becomes more complicated with the oldold+ stable releases as the repo address changes to archive.debian.org |
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| 18:08.38 | L0aD1nG | can you find the iso on the official page? |
| 18:08.43 | L0aD1nG | i never checked that |
| 18:08.45 | sney | and security support is gone too, so you have to be wise about where to deploy them |
| 18:08.56 | sney | yes, cdimage still has older installers |
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| 18:09.40 | sney | nothing ever really gets deleted around here. just moved, sometimes |
| 18:09.46 | nickgaw | I mainly asked for my own testing purposes so if I wanted to install 1.0 I could do that like in a chroot or on a virtual machine? |
| 18:10.14 | jelly | L0aD1nG, LTS effort does not cover ALL the possible packages. Be careful and if your business relies on it, consider contributing financially. |
| 18:10.15 | greycat | !release history |
| 18:10.15 | *** join/#debian stoffepojken (stoffe@h-148-185.A328.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 18:10.15 | dpkg | Named after "Toy Story" characters. Buzz(1.1; 1996-03-14), Rex(1.2; 1996-10-28), Bo(1.3; 1997-05-01), Hamm(2.0; 1998-07-24), Slink(2.1; 1999-03-09), Potato(2.2; 2000-08-15), Woody(3.0; 2002-07-19), Sarge(3.1; 2005-06-06), Etch(4.0; 2007-04-08), Lenny(5.0; 2009-02-14), Squeeze(6.0; 2011-02-06), Wheezy(7; 2013-05-04), Jessie(8; 2015-04-25), Stretch (9; 2017-06-17), Buster (10; 2019-07-06). Next: Bullseye. http://deb.li/it56U |
| 18:10.43 | L0aD1nG | jelly: its my main and personal system my laptop |
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| 18:11.53 | L0aD1nG | but stretch is not LTS right now at least based on what the site says |
| 18:12.28 | nickgaw | but if I want to install 1.1 for my own testing purposes can I do that? |
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| 18:13.08 | greycat | you can *try*... I doubt it will work on any current hardware |
| 18:13.11 | jelly | it will be soon |
| 18:13.26 | jelly | like in 3 months |
| 18:13.36 | nickgaw | Before the debian-installer how did you install older versions? |
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| 18:13.49 | L0aD1nG | wow i should upgrade i am too old... i know i will have to mess with i3 again i guess... |
| 18:13.58 | jelly | nickgaw, boot and install floppies. |
| 18:14.01 | greycat | each one had its own version of the debian installer |
| 18:14.12 | greycat | you either booted with a floppy or a CD |
| 18:14.22 | nickgaw | So it was probably a mess to install? |
| 18:14.30 | sney | it wasn't very intuitive but we made it work |
| 18:14.35 | greycat | the installer has not radically changed since then |
| 18:14.46 | jelly | nickgaw, it was a mess comparable to all the other OSes of that time |
| 18:14.52 | greycat | it is largely the same text menu system, if you don't use the graphical installer, and who the hell uses the graphical installer... nobody. |
| 18:15.04 | nickgaw | true |
| 18:15.06 | sney | it was pretty easy in those days to be working through the installer and suddenly be looking at dselect though, if memory serves |
| 18:15.27 | nickgaw | What kernel and gcc version was in 1.1? |
| 18:15.33 | greycat | prior versions of the installer were actually more helpful in some ways, offering to set up your MTA for you |
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| 18:15.47 | greycat | half the newbies we get here these days have no working local mail delivery and can't debug their crontabs |
| 18:15.52 | jelly | nickgaw, best grab it and look inside. |
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| 18:16.30 | nickgaw | Will anyone support me on getting 1.1 working on my system if I can not get it working? |
| 18:16.42 | greycat | not likely |
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| 18:17.20 | sney | none of us have used a system that old in a long time if ever (I started on 2.2) so vague guesses would be the best support you'll get anyway |
| 18:17.23 | nickgaw | Will it run on a 64 bit system if it is 32 or 16 bit? |
| 18:17.30 | jelly | nickgaw, sure, for 100$/hr |
| 18:17.43 | sinkmanu | hi |
| 18:17.55 | sney | a 32-bit KVM VM would be your best bet for emulating it I think. |
| 18:17.59 | sney | hi sinkmanu |
| 18:18.02 | jelly | nickgaw, probably won't run on a 64bit hardware directly. Might run in a VM |
| 18:18.21 | nickgaw | ok I just want to mess around with it. |
| 18:18.45 | greycat | amd64 did not exist in those days, so you would be using a pure i386 release |
| 18:18.57 | jelly | probably be very picky with specific emulated hw components (some ISA network and scsi for disks and who knows for graphics) |
| 18:19.35 | sney | bochs would probably work |
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| 18:19.53 | jelly | !TIAS |
| 18:19.53 | dpkg | TIAS is "Try It And See". |
| 18:19.59 | sney | indeed |
| 18:20.05 | nickgaw | I guess it is no big deal if it does not work but can I still file bugs? |
| 18:20.14 | sney | no bugs for unsupported releases please |
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| 18:21.07 | nickgaw | Will it just be ignored and if I find a bug running it on a modern system why should I not report it to help others? |
| 18:21.30 | greycat | if you can reproduce the same bug on a current stable release, that's worth reporting |
| 18:21.49 | nickgaw | yes |
| 18:21.57 | L0aD1nG | i never check the /var/mail now that i heard that i checked and i find just one error like 20 times... |
| 18:22.25 | L0aD1nG | this : /usr/bin/mandb: can't open /usr/local/man/man1/mutagen-pony.1: Permission denied |
| 18:22.53 | sney | though if the bug is "libvirt in buster has x problem virtualizing debian 1.1" then try to be wise about whether it's worth the maintainers' time |
| 18:23.06 | sney | L0aD1nG: /usr/local indicates that's something you installed outside of the debian ecosystem |
| 18:23.40 | nickgaw | ok understand but is testing older releases still something that is done sommetimes? |
| 18:23.54 | greycat | no |
| 18:24.13 | sney | not outside of people's personal labs for curiosity purposes |
| 18:24.20 | L0aD1nG | sney: maybe is that Android studio i had who know i am 99% sure that nothing else was from the outside |
| 18:24.36 | L0aD1nG | s/know/knows |
| 18:25.04 | nickgaw | Why is /tmp on the normal hard drive should it not be a tmpfs filesystem in memory? |
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| 18:25.26 | greycat | you're allowed to make it be a tmpfs if you like |
| 18:25.30 | greycat | the default is "just a directory" |
| 18:25.45 | somiaj | and even if you make it tmpfs, you still need the location as the mountpoint I belive. |
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| 18:29.17 | nickgaw | So why is /proc and /sys not in /etc/fstab yet they are mounted? |
| 18:29.31 | greycat | Magic. |
| 18:30.54 | nickgaw | So how should the /tmp with tmpfs mount entry look in /etc/fstab |
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| 18:31.02 | somiaj | hmm, I recall (maybe my memeory is failing me) proc use to be in /etc/fstab, though I guess the kernel just took that over? |
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| 18:31.26 | sney | since we've been talking about debian releases from 20 years ago, yeah I remember that stuff being in fstab |
| 18:31.28 | greycat | yeah, it used to be there explicitly |
| 18:31.44 | sney | kernel took over or maybe it's handled with a service in init |
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| 18:33.00 | nickgaw | What really needs to be written is a kernel configuration file prober that probes your system and generates a custom kernel configuration file for the user why is this not around yet? |
| 18:33.25 | greycat | very few people build custom kernels these days; it hasn't been necessary for years |
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| 18:33.46 | greycat | I gave it up during the 2.6 series |
| 18:34.06 | sney | unless you're talking about a targeted initrd, which is something that has been possible for years and many systems use |
| 18:34.27 | sney | just because you've never heard of something doesn't mean it hasn't been invented yet |
| 18:34.38 | nickgaw | No I am talking about a kernel that does not need the initrd and just runs on your hardware. |
| 18:34.48 | greycat | nobody does that any more |
| 18:35.07 | L0aD1nG | any clue if there are drivers for hp printers? I am thinking of installing debian on my new desktop and i need the printer... |
| 18:35.13 | nickgaw | true but someone does for debian kernels? |
| 18:35.30 | greycat | initrd is required for disk encryption, among other things, and a LOT more people care about that, than care about saving a few kilobytes of RAM |
| 18:35.50 | somiaj | nickgaw: the module system is very robust and so someone configures a kernel that builds a core kernel and the modules, then loads only the modules that are needed. |
| 18:36.19 | nickgaw | yes I agree on the disk encryption but if I did not set that up if I want to do a custom build that will take a long time. |
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| 18:36.40 | L0aD1nG | i mean to the if debian provide some, i searched and saw that hp forwarding you to their own drivers for linux |
| 18:36.41 | somiaj | L0aD1nG: debian contains various 'drivers' for hp printers, but they aren't really drivers, though forget what they are called. |
| 18:36.43 | greycat | you're allowed to do that yourself, if you wish |
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| 18:37.08 | L0aD1nG | somiaj: so i cant really use the printer right? |
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| 18:37.51 | L0aD1nG | except if i install what hp provides and they work |
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| 18:38.42 | joepublic | L0aD1nG, http://www.openprinting.org/printers |
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| 18:39.09 | somiaj | L0aD1nG: what do you mean? I use hp printers with only stuff in debian regurally. |
| 18:39.34 | somiaj | L0aD1nG: look at the package printer-driver-all or printer-driver-foo, that should give you what you need. |
| 18:41.15 | L0aD1nG | thanks guys but i cant try it right now... my desktop doesnt even boot with grub... |
| 18:41.35 | L0aD1nG | windows wont even install.. they ruined my hardware and wont even install right now |
| 18:41.57 | *** join/#debian WoC (woc@unaffiliated/woc) |
| 18:42.21 | L0aD1nG | so when i buy new i will try then |
| 18:42.40 | nickgaw | I am looking at the System76 laptops and they use another they say better boot loader then grub can it be configured to remember the last system or assign labels you can type into the keyboard to boot an operating system? |
| 18:43.00 | L0aD1nG | somiaj: thats cool i thought you mean that there are no drivers. But its my luck of english i guess |
| 18:43.03 | WoC | Trying to switch from graphical defauls to non-graphical startup, wouldn't that be; systemctl set-default multi-user.target ? |
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| 18:44.05 | WoC | For some reason, i'm getting; Failed to set default target: Connection timed out |
| 18:44.24 | L0aD1nG | Debian installation of base system gone well but it wont boot. In the start i got a Reading Error and then with some "magic way" i got a grub error and a grub rescue console |
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| 18:44.54 | L0aD1nG | s/luck/lack |
| 18:45.09 | greycat | are you actually booting with systemd? |
| 18:45.23 | WoC | me ? Yes |
| 18:45.28 | greycat | does "systemctl get-default" actually work? |
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| 18:47.06 | lwp | L0aD1nG, debian (and thus CUPS) already has support builtin for many many models of HP printers. In my recent experience, it finds the printer by itself, and knows what to do |
| 18:47.20 | WoC | the running pid 1 is; /lib/systemd/systemd --system --deserialize 22 |
| 18:47.20 | *** part/#debian nickgaw (~nick@63.141.51.15) |
| 18:47.55 | WoC | but get-default also times out, odd... |
| 18:48.21 | WoC | load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.05 |
| 18:48.45 | somiaj | L0aD1nG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostScript_Printer_Description -- they function as drivers, I should have just said yes. |
| 18:48.48 | WoC | wicked... |
| 18:49.03 | greycat | where on earth did you get that "/lib/systemd/systemd --system --deserialize 22" from? |
| 18:49.44 | WoC | that the running process |
| 18:49.56 | WoC | running as pid 1 |
| 18:49.56 | greycat | literally what did you TYPE to SEE that output |
| 18:49.57 | somiaj | L0aD1nG: but in linux cups does most of the work for you, and there are often built in ppd files that will work for most printers. |
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| 18:50.03 | WoC | ps auxw |
| 18:50.23 | greycat | unicorn:~$ ps auxw | grep init |
| 18:50.24 | greycat | root 1 0.0 0.0 170780 7624 ? Ss Mar08 10:19 /sbin/init |
| 18:50.50 | somiaj | I have the same thing here, (though an 18 instead of a 22) |
| 18:50.52 | greycat | I cannot see what you see, not in ps auxw, not in ps -ef, not in /proc/1/cmdline |
| 18:50.57 | lwp | L0aD1nG, also starting in buster, CUPS has "driverless printing" for modern printers that can accept .pdf and .jpeg data directly. Works great |
| 18:51.23 | somiaj | greycat: could this be due to you have upgraded your system over the years? But I'm seeing the same thing WoC is |
| 18:51.33 | greycat | Maybe? I have no idea. |
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| 18:51.48 | greycat | in any case, "systemctl get-default" timing out is bad. |
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| 18:52.24 | L0aD1nG | well i cant try nothing right now cause the extensive use of windows (i think) ruined it everything malfunctions and debian which is installed wont even get to grub, i need a new desktop and now we are on a quarantine here in greece nothing is working |
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| 18:53.00 | WoC | k, ty greycat appreciated |
| 18:53.22 | lwp | L0aD1nG, can you run a debian live-system USB or DVD on that machine ? |
| 18:53.57 | L0aD1nG | lwp: well i havent one ready i have kali and tails ready with a multiboot usb i can run that |
| 18:54.43 | lwp | L0aD1nG, if you can run a live system, then the machine isn't totally ruined, i would say. |
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| 18:54.53 | L0aD1nG | ohh i am wrong i have debian 10 on a dvd, do i have live system with that? |
| 18:55.31 | lwp | maybe, maybe not, boot it and see |
| 18:56.07 | lwp | it will be an option in the first menu you see after booting, if it is a live system |
| 18:57.42 | lwp | IOW, if you can run kali from USB, then the basic computer is probably OK, and your problem is either a bad disk drive, or a bad install |
| 18:58.08 | L0aD1nG | actually after the debian failing with grub i turned on freebsd... I wanted to learn freebsd to as much as i can from the past so it was a good time i thought. (freebsd had an error on installation process before even the start up menu) then that got me on freebsd channel and someone there searched my model of motherboard and told me that its an old motherboard that supports only windows vista, xp. Although i |
| 18:58.11 | L0aD1nG | dont know if this is true cause i didnt checked myself and cause i was running windows 7 on it for like 2 years |
| 18:59.13 | L0aD1nG | lwp: i can run live system i got in with both tails and kali, old versions though |
| 19:00.07 | lwp | then you either have a disk problem, or you are not installing debian and freebsd correctly. |
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| 19:00.32 | L0aD1nG | lwp: i installed debian correctly i think really i have done it so many times. |
| 19:00.44 | L0aD1nG | lwp: i guess is the disk |
| 19:01.04 | L0aD1nG | i guess on 2050 maybe there will be a disk to handle windows filesystem.. |
| 19:01.22 | lwp | today there is support for NTFS in linux |
| 19:01.35 | L0aD1nG | but to talk true was an old hard drive |
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| 19:03.19 | Surfer2011 | https://willhaley.com/blog/custom-debian-live-environment/ can someone help me on the last part getting back an iso file from it but for amd64 ?! won'T get it to work |
| 19:03.36 | L0aD1nG | lwp: i didnt know that, but from what i hear and experience (dont say i know cause i am not a fs expert) its a crappy filesystem just from the fact that the machine "lags" and needs reinstallation i have like 7 years debian on my laptop without reinstallation |
| 19:04.24 | greycat | !debian-live |
| 19:04.24 | dpkg | The Debian Live project provides pre-built Debian live system images and allows creation of your own. NOT recommended for installing Debian. Live images are available from http://www.debian.org/CD/live/ . https://wiki.debian.org/DebianLive #debian-live on irc.debian.org; also see <live login>, <uefi live>. |
| 19:04.43 | greycat | the people in that channel, on that network, may know more about it |
| 19:05.17 | L0aD1nG | now its the filesystem or generally windows os...? nevermind its such an offtopic conversation |
| 19:06.06 | lwp | L0aD1nG, unless you are talking about re-installing windows, or you need to save some files from that disk, you can just delete that windows filesystem , and use something more reasonable, like ext4 |
| 19:06.47 | L0aD1nG | lwp: i told you i have installed debian like my laptop have them install talking about partitioning... |
| 19:07.03 | L0aD1nG | there is no windows at all there right now |
| 19:07.16 | lwp | then what does any windows file system have to do with it ??? you are the one who brings it up ? |
| 19:07.26 | L0aD1nG | grub wont start thats the point |
| 19:07.43 | lwp | did you install into a windows file system ? |
| 19:08.33 | L0aD1nG | i used ext2 for /boot ext4 for / ext4 for /home and swap thats the table |
| 19:09.02 | L0aD1nG | pc has nothing to do with windows right now, sorry if i used bad english and you misunderstood |
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| 19:10.00 | WoC | L0aD1nG: are you using GPT partition table ? on a UEFI computer ? |
| 19:10.18 | WoC | or DOS type table ? |
| 19:10.31 | *** part/#debian letty (~me@lugatgt/llama/letty) |
| 19:10.32 | L0aD1nG | lwp: and i saved the files i wanted with kali linux live i just mounted the disk, cause windows crashed and wont even open |
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| 19:10.50 | L0aD1nG | WoC: no no uefi |
| 19:10.55 | L0aD1nG | motherboard is old |
| 19:11.07 | WoC | ok, so grub on MBR ? |
| 19:11.22 | L0aD1nG | yea |
| 19:11.53 | WoC | ok... maybe you have some bad blocks in the beginning of the disk |
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| 19:12.20 | WoC | would explain why freebsd fails |
| 19:13.11 | WoC | easy, but slow way to check for bad blocks, dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/null ... |
| 19:13.25 | WoC | assuming sda is your disk |
| 19:13.30 | L0aD1nG | i am so sad from the chances to be true that this hardware guy fooled me and got me a old motherboard that boots only with windows that i didnt check the information which i got from freebsd channel. |
| 19:13.41 | L0aD1nG | freebsd will through a lua error. |
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| 19:14.24 | L0aD1nG | reading the freebsd dvd will throw a lua error and start up menu for installation wont even boot, then it will bring you to a console with some basic commands |
| 19:14.39 | lwp | L0aD1nG, I have many very old motherboards around, that still are running various linux installs. |
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| 19:15.14 | L0aD1nG | guys do you want me to live boot and pastebin the dmidecode so we can check? |
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| 19:18.02 | L0aD1nG | right now at least the last time before the grub rescue console i got a grub error that tells some i386 file is missing |
| 19:18.30 | karlpinc | L0aD1nG: Probably best to use the unoffical installer with non-free firmware included. And, check that you're copying the ISO properly to the boot media. |
| 19:18.38 | karlpinc | !firmware installer |
| 19:18.38 | dpkg | Debian-Installer is able to load additional <firmware>, by including it within installation media or supplying on removable media (e.g. USB stick, floppy). See http://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/ch06s04 . To include firmware within Debian <netboot> images, see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/NetbootFirmware . See also <firmware images>. |
| 19:18.46 | karlpinc | !firmware images |
| 19:18.46 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ |
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| 19:19.56 | L0aD1nG | karlpinc: i have one dvd left (cant buy other from anywhere cause of quarantine) and usb stick as far as i know debian works fine with dd command on a usb |
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| 19:21.07 | Surfer2011 | greycat: the channel is abanond, 1 person in there ^^ so i think it is no big help |
| 19:22.05 | greycat | I'm not on that network to check it at the mo'. |
| 19:22.12 | greycat | Are you sure you checked on the right network? |
| 19:23.00 | lwp | 36 users on #debian-live on OFTC |
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| 19:48.39 | yooey_ | ebisu |
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| 19:52.33 | iPseudo | Hello. Anyone here know anything about Vagrant? |
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| 19:59.41 | bryanpedini | iPseudo: there is #vagrant (119) just for that bro ;) |
| 20:00.55 | iPseudo | bryanpendini: thank you sir. I messaged here cause their channel has been unresponsive for quite some time. Thank you for pointing that out though. |
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| 20:01.14 | L0aD1nG | now i just reinstalled the youtube-dl and at the end i got the same error from my /var/mail with apt : can't open /usr/local/man/man1/mutagen-pony.1: Permission denied |
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| 20:01.48 | L0aD1nG | any clue how to fix this? |
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| 20:39.12 | metbsd | is there a lightweight linux distribution for i7-2xxx |
| 20:39.15 | metbsd | laptop |
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| 20:40.02 | metbsd | or is there a way to backup whole debian system and restore it elsewhere |
| 20:40.25 | WoC | dumpfs ? |
| 20:40.57 | metbsd | it can dump and restore root too? |
| 20:41.48 | greycat | Debian can be pretty lightweight, if you opt out of all the desktop environment stuff. |
| 20:41.50 | WoC | Should, yes, and i'm pretty sure you have it in xBSD too |
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| 20:42.24 | WoC | man dumpe2fs for more details |
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| 20:43.23 | somiaj | metbsd: there are lots of ways to backup a debian system, a lot depends on your backup model. Some only back up data and package lists, some backup the whole filesystem. |
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| 20:50.17 | Antoine- | Hello, have set up a reverse proxy to access a couple services. I'd like to be able to access these services through the reverse proxy only and not through the actual port they are listening on. How should I do that? Should I look at the services' config or should I do it with iptables or something? |
| 20:50.41 | greycat | configure each service to listen to loopback only |
| 20:50.59 | metbsd | somiaj: i want to backup and restore entire file system including packages and etc files |
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| 20:51.22 | Antoine- | greycat: Oh good idea, thanks :) |
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| 20:51.52 | Antoine- | greycat: Wait, would I work if some of the services run inside a docker container? |
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| 20:56.38 | somiaj | metbsd: as I said this depends on backup model. Debian can mostly be backuped by making a copy of the file system (though you have to manually make it bootable on the other system). But there are other equally as useful methods. |
| 20:57.02 | metbsd | tell me the name please |
| 20:57.15 | metbsd | backup whole thing and restore whole thing including boot loader |
| 20:57.52 | greycat | *that* sounds like simple disk mirroring |
| 20:58.09 | metbsd | yes |
| 20:58.14 | metbsd | greycat: that's that |
| 20:58.41 | somiaj | I personally prefer just copying the file system as opposed to mirroring the full partition table, as I don't have to deal with issues if the disks are different sizes. This just requires manually making the system bootable after the copy. |
| 20:58.58 | somiaj | clonezilla is a popular disk imagining tool, there are others. |
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| 21:15.15 | L0aD1nG | is there any clue why i cant change the permisions on this /usr/local/man/man1/mutagen-pony.1 as root?? |
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| 21:16.16 | L0aD1nG | chmod +x /usr/local/man/man1/mutagen-pony.1 and there is no result |
| 21:16.37 | KjetilK | L0aD1nG: Just guessing: could it be on a NFS-mounted filesystem? |
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| 21:18.03 | somiaj | KjetilK: hopefully not in /usr/local |
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| 21:18.24 | somiaj | L0aD1nG: ls -l /usr/local/man/man1/mutagen-pony.1 -- what is the output? Is that a symbolic link? |
| 21:18.36 | KjetilK | I've seen stranger things, somiaj :-) |
| 21:18.47 | L0aD1nG | it throws an error of this file that cant be opened on apt-get... |
| 21:18.48 | somiaj | L0aD1nG: also why are you trying to make a man page executable, this really sounds like an XY problem. |
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| 21:19.06 | L0aD1nG | i must fix it somehow i am searching on the internet of this but not really helpful |
| 21:19.24 | somiaj | L0aD1nG: this is really an XY problem, maybe state your actual problem, what command you typed, and the full output with the errors you are getting. PUt thsi at paste.debian.net |
| 21:19.52 | L0aD1nG | /usr/bin/mandb: can't open /usr/local/man/man1/mutagen-pony.1: Permission denied |
| 21:19.55 | somiaj | also apt-get should not be doing anything with files in /usr/local on a stock debian system. |
| 21:20.02 | L0aD1nG | after installing something at last i get this error |
| 21:20.13 | somiaj | oh I guess, mandb trying to update could use /usr/local. |
| 21:20.24 | somiaj | L0aD1nG: ls -l /usr/local/man/man1/mutagen-pony.1 -- what is the output? |
| 21:21.02 | L0aD1nG | -rw------- 1 root staff 1120 Aug 9 2016 /usr/local/man/man1/mutagen-pony.1 |
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| 21:23.08 | somiaj | seems strange to me a manpage can only be read by root, did you install this software in /usr/local? |
| 21:23.35 | greycat | with a name like mutagen-pony, you can only expect quality |
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| 21:24.05 | somiaj | anyways, try 'chmod 644 /usr/local/man/man1/mutagen-pony.1' as that is more what I would expect the permissions of a man file to be. |
| 21:24.16 | dvs | somiaj, it's called security, Microsoft style. ;-P |
| 21:24.30 | rwp | Seems like someone had a bad umask setting at the time of installation. |
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| 21:25.24 | L0aD1nG | i ll try, sec |
| 21:25.32 | rwp | L0aD1nG, Please do not make files executable (re: chmod +x manpage.1) that are not executables! |
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| 21:26.12 | L0aD1nG | yea i would like to try this just to see if its fixing the error i know there is no point but the whole error seems strange |
| 21:26.33 | greycat | rwp: usually the Makefile would use the "install" command with an explicit permission mode that would make the umask irrelevant, so... this project most likely has a very poor build/installation system |
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| 21:27.08 | somiaj | L0aD1nG: in the future, you should give the output of the command you ran 'apt-get whatever you did', and then the full output of all messages (even if you don't think they are important) and paste it at paste.debian.net. Knowing the actual problem makes support way better. |
| 21:27.22 | rwp | Given the mode -rw------- shown the error mandb: can't open /usr/local/man/man1/mutagen-pony.1: Permission denied makes perfect sense. |
| 21:27.48 | rwp | greycat, Right. But we both know there is a *lot* of bad juju code out there. We see it every day. |
| 21:27.49 | somiaj | but the chmod 644 /that/file should fix this error, you might have other issues from this software you installed in /usr/local |
| 21:28.00 | L0aD1nG | somiaj: okay but there was no other message that seemed to me a problem |
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| 21:28.20 | L0aD1nG | i did change the permissions let me reinstall something |
| 21:28.34 | rwp | L0aD1nG, No other message that you have yet seen. The day is still early. Plenty of time to run into more problems later. |
| 21:28.48 | somiaj | L0aD1nG: there is often information that comes from the output that is useful even you don't htink it is. Like undertanding why you were wanting to change the permsisions on this random file in the first place would have saved time. |
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| 21:29.07 | somiaj | oh yea, sometimes things error out on the first error they run into, others can still be lurking |
| 21:30.56 | L0aD1nG | https://paste.debian.net/1139202/ |
| 21:31.04 | L0aD1nG | same error.. its weird |
| 21:31.39 | somiaj | that is not the same error, that is different (this is a different file) |
| 21:31.59 | L0aD1nG | ohh yea sorry didnt noticed |
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| 21:32.11 | rwp | L0aD1nG, What does this report? find . -type f \( ! -perm -o+r -o ! -perm -g+r -o ! -perm -u+r \) -ls |
| 21:32.13 | L0aD1nG | what is happening..really |
| 21:32.16 | rwp | L0aD1nG, What does this report? find /var/local -type f \( ! -perm -o+r -o ! -perm -g+r -o ! -perm -u+r \) -ls |
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| 21:32.52 | rwp | I suspect it will list out a lot of files that are not readable that should be. |
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| 21:33.31 | rwp | If so then can fix those all at one time with: find /var/local -type f \( ! -perm -o+r -o ! -perm -g+r -o ! -perm -u+r \) -exec chmod -v a+r {} + |
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| 21:35.12 | L0aD1nG | rwp: this command lists no files |
| 21:35.35 | lenswipe | hey folks - I'm getting a notification that /dev/mapper/debian--vg-root is full. I ran sudo du -sh in / and the largest item in there is /home at 49GB. After that it's /var, at 15GB. |
| 21:36.02 | lenswipe | I believe that /home is a sep partition so that shouldn't be affecting things, leading me to suspect that /var may be the culprit. |
| 21:36.05 | rwp | Then all of them must be readable. |
| 21:36.27 | lenswipe | The problem is that if I go into /var and re-try the command nothing in /var is on it's on big...there's just lots of things at a few MB each that all add up |
| 21:36.32 | lenswipe | anyone have any thoughts? |
| 21:36.42 | rwp | lenswipe, How many LV partitions do you have? |
| 21:36.54 | lenswipe | rwp, uh, two or three I think, how do I find out |
| 21:37.00 | rwp | df -lh |
| 21:37.14 | rwp | lvs |
| 21:37.27 | lenswipe | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:37.32 | rwp | df -h is really what you want to know about when you have a full file system. |
| 21:37.38 | lenswipe | Ah |
| 21:37.51 | rwp | But /dev/mapper/debian--vg-root is just your root file system. But running du -sh will walk all of them. |
| 21:37.57 | rwp | Not what you want. |
| 21:38.22 | rwp | Also du and df are intrinsically somewhat different. Due to many reasons such as fragments and hardlinks and so forth. |
| 21:38.47 | lenswipe | rwp, https://gist.github.com/rmainseas/f5b2985f6844304a4fd90307ec156398 |
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| 21:39.24 | rwp | Good information. Hint: "df -h /" will look only at the root file system. |
| 21:39.34 | rwp | What does vgs say you have for free space in your VG? |
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| 21:39.50 | L0aD1nG | rwp: your command returns nothing but as i change the permissions on the next file one more appears like the new error just the same and so on |
| 21:40.01 | lenswipe | it says debian-vg free: 0 |
| 21:40.04 | rwp | lenswipe, All of those snap partitions makes me think you are running Ubuntu not Debian. :-/ |
| 21:40.05 | L0aD1nG | so you are right there are many files |
| 21:40.15 | lenswipe | rwp, no, im running debian - I just installed some snaps |
| 21:40.30 | rwp | lenswipe, Okay. :-) |
| 21:40.42 | lenswipe | things like Remina and some other stuff have to be installed as snaps for some weird reason |
| 21:40.45 | lenswipe | Cura, FreeCAD etc. |
| 21:40.54 | rwp | Since you have 12M available (due to minfree, good) you might try installing ncdu which is a nice tool for looking at where disk space is used. |
| 21:41.01 | rwp | cd / && ncdu -x |
| 21:41.07 | L0aD1nG | ohh no there are 9 files there i can do it one by one |
| 21:41.24 | lenswipe | thanks, i'll give that a shot |
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| 21:42.10 | lenswipe | rwp, okay, it's showing /usr and /var |
| 21:42.19 | rwp | The other thing you might need to do (at least initially) is to remove large packages that you don't need that are consuming a lot of disk space. |
| 21:42.25 | lenswipe | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:42.32 | rwp | For example texlive is huge. For example 0AD (the game) is huge. Things like that. |
| 21:42.32 | lenswipe | and /var 7.0 GB |
| 21:42.45 | lenswipe | yeah, i think i installed texlive at some point, but then uninstalled it |
| 21:42.56 | rwp | On my system /usr is 2.7GB in size. For a comparison. But /usr/share can be very large. |
| 21:43.05 | lenswipe | hmm |
| 21:43.16 | lenswipe | holy hell |
| 21:43.20 | rwp | Is /var in the root partition for you? Yes it is. Try "apt-get clean" and see if that frees up space. |
| 21:43.21 | lenswipe | there's a texlive folder in there |
| 21:43.24 | lenswipe | in /usr/share |
| 21:43.33 | rwp | That will remove cached downloaded deb files. That you probably won't need again. |
| 21:43.34 | lenswipe | f***. I definitely un-installed that. |
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| 21:43.49 | rwp | dpkg -l | grep texlive |
| 21:43.49 | dpkg | No packages found matching | grep texlive |
| 21:44.04 | rwp | I guess I should have quoted that example. :-/ |
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| 21:44.29 | lenswipe | lol |
| 21:44.37 | L0aD1nG | alright i changed all to 644 with chmod and the error is fixed |
| 21:44.44 | L0aD1nG | thanks so much for the help! |
| 21:44.54 | lenswipe | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:44.54 | dpkg | No packages found matching | grep texlive | wc -l 56 |
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| 21:44.55 | lenswipe | oof |
| 21:44.56 | rwp | Normally apt will download to the cache the deb files. These build up. It is expected to clean them out periodically. But everything works fine if that is forgotten. Until the disk fills up. |
| 21:45.12 | lenswipe | is that all stuff that's uninstalled? |
| 21:45.17 | lenswipe | s/uninstalled/installed |
| 21:45.22 | rwp | Review that texlive list and see if you still need them. Then purge them off if you don't need them. |
| 21:45.28 | lenswipe | i don't need anything of texlive |
| 21:45.30 | lenswipe | I'm done with it |
| 21:45.32 | rwp | Yes. Those are packages that are still installed. |
| 21:45.36 | lenswipe | damn. |
| 21:45.46 | lenswipe | So, how do i get rid of them? Just pipe that to rm? |
| 21:45.51 | lenswipe | or sudo apt purge whatever? |
| 21:45.57 | rwp | They may be installed in the "rc" state where they are removed but /etc conffiles remain. Those are lint if you are never going to use them and should be "purged". |
| 21:46.14 | rwp | A "purge" removes /etc conffiles that are associated with the package too. |
| 21:46.17 | uniqdom | I'm planning the deploy of a Wordpress site using docker. Should I use "latest" tag or stay at 5.4? |
| 21:46.26 | lenswipe | ah |
| 21:46.37 | lenswipe | uniqdom, for production use? |
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| 21:46.41 | uniqdom | yes |
| 21:46.46 | rwp | By default the idea is that one can remove a package but then re-install it and the /etc conffiles remain making the configuration persistent. |
| 21:47.00 | lenswipe | you should probably stay at 5.4 and then go forward manually unless you enjoy having unpredictable deployments |
| 21:47.17 | lenswipe | rwp, yeah, that makes a lot of sense, but i guess with reference to texlive...less so |
| 21:47.45 | rwp | lenswipe, I highly recommend using the 'etckeeper' package to keep /etc in git version control. Then one can purge without fear because if you ever need something you changed in an /etc conffile then there is always the git version control to go look at to retrieve it from. |
| 21:47.53 | uniqdom | lenswipe: I'm new in wordpress, is there an LTS version? |
| 21:48.16 | lenswipe | uniqdom, not that I'm aware of |
| 21:48.18 | uniqdom | or does the support comes with the latest version only? |
| 21:48.21 | rwp | And of course there is always backup. Because everyone should always have a good backup too. Right? But version control is trivially easier. |
| 21:48.29 | lenswipe | yeah |
| 21:48.41 | lenswipe | uniqdom, i think it's latest version only, but i couldn't swear to that. |
| 21:49.17 | lenswipe | rwp, so, how do i purge off those texlive packages? |
| 21:49.18 | uniqdom | thanks, if somebody can answer that please |
| 21:49.39 | lenswipe | uniqdom, ##php, or ##wordpress would be more likely to know |
| 21:49.58 | lenswipe | #wordpress, even |
| 21:50.33 | rwp | lenswipe, dpkg -l | awk '/^rc/{print$2}' would give a list. Upon careful review if that is what you want then: apt-get purge $(dpkg -l | awk '/^rc/{print$2}') would purge that list. Double check my commands since I am just typing them in from the top of my head. |
| 21:50.35 | lenswipe | uniqdom, if you're new to wordpress, be very (AND I MEAN VERY) conservative with the plugins you install |
| 21:50.41 | lenswipe | rwp, thank you |
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| 21:52.02 | uniqdom | lenswipe: well I thought that I was in #wordpress, thanks for spotting that ;) |
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| 21:52.37 | lenswipe | :) |
| 21:52.47 | lenswipe | easy done |
| 21:53.23 | rwp | lenswipe, 28G is a good size for the root file system. I am surprised you filled it. But if, for example, /var/lib/libvirt is a big disk use (it is for me) then you might relocate it on /home (via symlinks or bind mounts or whatever) and use some of the space on /home for it. |
| 21:53.53 | lenswipe | well, I have texlive-fonts-extra installed |
| 21:53.55 | lenswipe | among other things |
| 21:54.00 | rwp | haha |
| 21:54.13 | lenswipe | that's like the node_modules of document preparation |
| 21:54.21 | rwp | That was just a lucky guess on my part. Since as you might guess I have hit that before. :-) |
| 21:54.26 | lenswipe | lol yeah |
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| 21:54.44 | lenswipe | by the way...this is why I wish there was a good docker container for latex |
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| 21:54.52 | rwp | I am actually *using* TeX though so I can't just purge it. I need it. And so have to have the disk space for it. |
| 21:55.01 | lenswipe | im considering moving to pandoc |
| 21:55.42 | rwp | Something that someone in the channel might know that I do not: How to sort installed packages by installed disk usage? That would be useful. |
| 21:56.21 | lenswipe | rwp, http://paste.debian.net/1139205/ |
| 21:56.22 | rwp | Probably some sort processing on the /var/lib/dpkg/info/status file to produce the result. |
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| 21:56.23 | lenswipe | check that out |
| 21:56.48 | rwp | All of those language packs are going to eat a lot of space. |
| 21:56.54 | lenswipe | yeup |
| 21:56.58 | lenswipe | i don't even know why I have them |
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| 21:57.04 | lenswipe | I do not speak Italian |
| 21:57.16 | rwp | It's Greek to me. |
| 21:57.29 | rwp | Anyway... Good luck! |
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| 21:58.19 | lenswipe | lol thanks |
| 21:58.28 | lenswipe | weird. |
| 21:58.31 | lenswipe | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:58.57 | lenswipe | i would've thought that would give me _some_ space |
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| 22:01.34 | lenswipe | can I just delete things from /usr/share? |
| 22:01.59 | somiaj | could there be something else besides packages taking up all that space, even with a full tex install here and a window manager (I don't use a full desktop), my / is only 15G |
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| 22:02.18 | somiaj | lenswipe: you don't want ot just delete thigns in /usr, espically stuff put there by packages. |
| 22:02.40 | lenswipe | according to ncdu the biggest offender looks to be /usr/share/texlive |
| 22:02.52 | somiaj | you many need to hunt around and see what is using all this space, is /usr really using most of the 28G? Could you be using that space elsewhere. |
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| 22:03.07 | somiaj | lenswipe: and how much space is /usr/share/texlive using? |
| 22:03.19 | lenswipe | 800MB |
| 22:03.39 | somiaj | with 28G, that isn't gonna give you much, espically if you need tex. |
| 22:03.44 | lenswipe | i don't need tex anymore |
| 22:03.47 | lenswipe | there's also the apt cache |
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| 22:04.12 | somiaj | if you use apt-get, /var/cache/apt/archives can have .deb files taking up lots of space you don't need |
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| 22:05.28 | klys | TeX: (tay') (n.): 1. a file format traditionally hailed for its affinity to the texdvi tool, which formats text for printing. |
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| 22:06.01 | lenswipe | somiaj, from what i can see it seems as though no one thing is using the majority of it |
| 22:06.08 | lenswipe | it looks to just be a bunch of things using chunks |
| 22:06.33 | klys | use deborphan |
| 22:07.00 | somiaj | lenswipe: do you have multiple desktops installed? Or something, using 28G worth of pakages is a lot of stuff installed. |
| 22:07.25 | lenswipe | oh shoot, yeah i do have Mate installed |
| 22:07.36 | lenswipe | i think it's mate |
| 22:08.13 | lenswipe | ...huh, maybe not |
| 22:08.22 | lenswipe | is there a way to find out which desktop environments i have installed? |
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| 22:08.39 | somiaj | lenswipe: dpkg -l | wc -l (this should give you a rough number of packages installed) |
| 22:08.58 | lenswipe | 2894 |
| 22:09.07 | somiaj | I don't think it is due to packages |
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| 22:09.42 | somiaj | that number isn't crazy high, it could be you have used space somewhere else, du -h /var (how much space is /var using) |
| 22:09.49 | joepublic | I have 3837 packages installed weighing in at 18GB. |
| 22:09.52 | somiaj | also is /home on a separate partition? |
| 22:09.58 | klys | got 2044 from the same command |
| 22:10.13 | joepublic | but yeah my /home is separate |
| 22:10.16 | somiaj | yea, I don't think 28G of space is being eatten up by those packages. |
| 22:10.35 | lenswipe | 11G/var |
| 22:10.49 | somiaj | I would try to figure out what in /var is taking up all that space |
| 22:11.24 | somiaj | my /var is 5.5G, and 3.5G of that is due to the webserer and /var/www/html |
| 22:11.26 | lenswipe | Well, when I ran that a got huge amounts of output about /var/lib/overlay/docker blah blah blah |
| 22:11.35 | lenswipe | or rather docker/overlay |
| 22:12.00 | lenswipe | i just ran a docker system prune and managed to get back a whopping 0B of space |
| 22:12.15 | somiaj | if docker is putting its images in /var, maybe go back to rwp initial comments about moving it elsewhere, I (like rwp) had to move libvirt out of /var because vm images take up more space than I give to / |
| 22:12.30 | lenswipe | hmm |
| 22:12.36 | lenswipe | yeah |
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| 22:12.38 | somiaj | you might need to move dockers data file to /home or some other partiton that has space for all the docker images you use. |
| 22:13.46 | lenswipe | docker image ls shows a few images...but the biggest one in there is under 2 gigs |
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| 22:15.16 | somiaj | but if you have multiple 1-2G images, that would eat up space fast |
| 22:15.20 | lenswipe | true |
| 22:15.25 | lenswipe | i have 2 images one is 1.2GB |
| 22:15.28 | lenswipe | one is 1.4 |
| 22:15.34 | lenswipe | the rest are about 400MB |
| 22:15.47 | joepublic | the `ncdu` command I find super-helpful in answering these questions |
| 22:15.53 | somiaj | those two take 3G, add anotehr 6-7 400MB images and you have another 2G |
| 22:16.07 | lenswipe | Well, debian-vg-root still has 0 free so |
| 22:16.28 | somiaj | perosnally I would either makge your root file system bigger, or move your docker images to a partition that has space foar them |
| 22:16.39 | lenswipe | Yeah |
| 22:16.43 | lenswipe | Maybe I'll move them to /home |
| 22:16.48 | lenswipe | this machine only has a 256GB SSD in it |
| 22:16.50 | lenswipe | i think |
| 22:17.00 | lenswipe | yeah |
| 22:17.24 | lenswipe | ah, just checked my disk management utility |
| 22:17.27 | lenswipe | apparently i now have 108GB free |
| 22:17.33 | joepublic | or to /media/lenswipe/big-external-drive |
| 22:17.40 | lenswipe | wait, no that's /home |
| 22:17.43 | somiaj | YOus hould probably consider what people metion a bit more, rwp identified this issue early on, but they used libvirt instaed of docker, but that should have been a sign, oh maybe my docker images take up to much space |
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| 22:18.16 | lenswipe | somiaj, very helpful, thanks |
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| 22:18.56 | lenswipe | I'll try to improve my clairvoyance for next time ;) |
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| 22:19.28 | lenswipe | but really though, when I ran `docker image prune` and it basically said "nothing to do" i figured that was docker images out of the picture |
| 22:19.43 | lenswipe | it wasn't until I remembered the "docker image ls" command, that I got some more interesting results. |
| 22:20.01 | jjakob | How long does it typically take for a package release to get from testing to stable? |
| 22:20.11 | lenswipe | so it's all very well sitting there and saying that I should consider what people say more, believe it or not, I don't have the man utility built into my brain |
| 22:20.32 | somiaj | jjakob: never |
| 22:20.58 | pingouin | debian buster. dhclient[563]: bound to 192.168.0.2 -- renewal in 37052 seconds . what control this "renewal" parameter ? the /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf is commented (#send dhcp-lease-time 3600;) i can't figure it out. |
| 22:21.00 | lenswipe | Anyway, I seem to have gotten about 11GB back so thanks |
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| 22:21.12 | jjakob | Oh, so new upstream releases never get to stable |
| 22:21.13 | somiaj | jjakob: stable is a mostly frozen system, once a stable release is made, packages will never move from testing to stable. |
| 22:21.14 | pingouin | i do not have a setting in my routeur also to set it |
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| 22:21.36 | lenswipe | sidenote: the disk visualization thing built into gnome is actually pretty nice |
| 22:21.55 | joepublic | I stand by my recommendation of `ncdu` :) |
| 22:21.57 | somiaj | jjakob: Part of the stability of the system is the frozen nature of it, packages won't change (outside of security fixes and major bug fixes). There are a few exceptions to this rule, webbrowser are the main one. |
| 22:22.00 | zq | if i wanted to include some lines into /etc/rc.local as part of my .deb, what is the idiomatic way to do so? surely not to include the entire file in the package. |
| 22:22.32 | lenswipe | joepublic, I'm using ncdu |
| 22:22.41 | jjakob | well, I'm looking at conntrack-tools that went from 1.4.5 to 1.4.6 |
| 22:22.47 | joepublic | it's a great bit recycler |
| 22:22.49 | somiaj | zq: a .deb package shouldn't be using rc.local as a way to run services. ACtually write a systemd unit file to do the work |
| 22:23.27 | lenswipe | joepublic, it tells me that there's a lot of space being used by /usr/share/texlive. However, somiaj seems to think that's a wild goose chase |
| 22:23.28 | zq | somiaj: what if i'm a sysvinit-core holdout? |
| 22:23.40 | somiaj | zq: then write and init.d script |
| 22:23.44 | joepublic | lenswipe, define "a lot" |
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| 22:23.52 | lenswipe | joepublic, 800MB |
| 22:24.04 | zq | hm |
| 22:24.07 | zq | thanks! |
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| 22:24.42 | lenswipe | joepublic, quite a heft chunk of space if you consider I no longer even have texlive installed. |
| 22:24.44 | somiaj | jjakob: that package won't make it into stable. You could backport it to stable if you really need it. |
| 22:24.51 | lenswipe | I'd argue it also adds up in the same way that the 400MB docker images add up |
| 22:25.05 | lenswipe | and what I'm wondering how is how best to remove it |
| 22:25.35 | somiaj | jjakob: some packages are backported by debian and put in the stable-backports (buster-backports in this case) repo. |
| 22:25.55 | joepublic | you can find what package(s) own the file(s) with dpkg -S /full/path/and/filename |
| 22:26.11 | somiaj | lenswipe: stuff in /usr/share is put there by .deb packages, stuff won't pile up there like /var |
| 22:26.30 | somiaj | lenswipe: if you have more texlive packages installed than you use, you can get some space back by removing packages you don't use |
| 22:26.36 | jjakob | I'd need to ask for it to be backported ? |
| 22:27.00 | somiaj | jjakob: I'm unsure how much backport requests get taken into account, you can backport it yourself |
| 22:27.10 | lenswipe | somiaj, yeah, i'm currently purging text-live-fonts-recommended-italian-whatever |
| 22:27.43 | somiaj | but really it seems like docker (maybe something else) is the real culprit |
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| 22:27.58 | lenswipe | somiaj, i just purged all of my docker images |
| 22:28.00 | lenswipe | i have none left |
| 22:28.02 | lenswipe | they're all gone |
| 22:28.07 | lenswipe | docker image ls produces nothing |
| 22:28.47 | lenswipe | lemme prune all my docker volumes too |
| 22:28.54 | somiaj | hmm, I would have just moved them to another partition, but did that give you some space? |
| 22:29.09 | lenswipe | not really |
| 22:29.22 | lenswipe | i mean this is dev, so the contents of the volumes aren't important |
| 22:29.36 | lenswipe | docker system df says current disk usages is 0 for everything |
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| 22:30.07 | somiaj | is /var on a different partition than /, also did you actually delete the files, I thought you said you had at least 3G+ of docker images. |
| 22:30.38 | lenswipe | i deleted the docker images ages ago, it didn't help me |
| 22:30.41 | lenswipe | help much* |
| 22:30.54 | lenswipe | i just purged the packages that owned those files in /usr/share/texlive |
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| 22:31.48 | lenswipe | \/usr/lib is now 9.3 GB. The biggest thing in there is x86_64_linux-gnu. Maybe I shouldnt' delete that... |
| 22:31.56 | lenswipe | ...though even then it's only 1.5GB |
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| 22:44.29 | zq | is /etc/network/interfaces supposed to be populated by ifupdown's postinst? |
| 22:44.55 | zq | i've accidentally removed mine and tried getting it back by reinstalling ifupdown but with no success |
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| 22:50.32 | somiaj | zq: no |
| 22:50.46 | somiaj | zq: /etc/network/interfaces gets populated due to the installer |
| 22:50.52 | somiaj | manually create it |
| 22:51.11 | somiaj | lenswipe: you do not want to be deleteing thigns in /usr |
| 22:51.14 | zq | somiaj: couldn't i re-run the installer? |
| 22:51.38 | somiaj | zq: I don't think so, but really it is easy to build your own package. By default it only contains lo, and the interface you used during the installer |
| 22:52.11 | zq | somiaj: i mean, when/how is the installer run? |
| 22:52.38 | somiaj | you need two three lines by default, 'source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*', 'auto lo', and 'iface lo inet loopback' |
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| 22:52.51 | somiaj | the debian installer is run when you install debian for the frist time |
| 22:53.10 | somiaj | If you want more in that interfaces file depends on if you want to use th einterface file to manage your network or some other tool such as network-manager |
| 22:53.12 | zq | okay, so i just uninstalled and then re-installed ifupdown and it worked |
| 22:53.24 | zq | i don't understand why apt-get reinstall ifupdown did not |
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| 22:53.53 | somiaj | I don't think the package is creating that file, but it is done by the installer. |
| 22:54.13 | somiaj | (I could be wrong), but really just create the file, and edit it to your preferences. |
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| 22:58.14 | zq | somiaj: i see logic in ifupdown.postinst that creates it only if the post-inst scrip was invoked w/o "$2" |
| 22:58.29 | zq | no worries |
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| 23:03.49 | somiaj | zq: ahh guess it does create the very basics of the file if it doesn't exist. |
| 23:04.09 | somiaj | but yea it also requires the file not exist and no second argument |
| 23:06.31 | zq | somiaj: i don't understand what controls whether a second arg is provided |
| 23:06.36 | zq | it contains the package version |
| 23:07.05 | somiaj | I'm unsure on the exact details of how postinst sripts are run by dpkg during the configure stage. |
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| 23:34.33 | icebp241 | any powerline users? i have a docker container running debian stable and the prompt isnt displaying properly. im not sure what the issue could be. i tried setting the locale |
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| 23:43.41 | uniqdom | icebp241: I don't know what is powerline, but I think that you may want to show us what you are getting as prompt. |
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| 23:46.10 | uniqdom | if you type something in the prompt and you get gibberish, try to delete what you have typed and write reset and hit ente |
| 23:46.12 | uniqdom | enter* |
| 23:47.57 | Ede|Popede | if it has UTF-8 characters the settings may be not correct to display them |
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| 23:55.40 | Ede|Popede | icebp241: what CHARMAP do you have in /etc/default/console-setup ? |
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