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| 00:04.22 | lorek | defaults,user doesn't change ownership it just allows the user to mount/unmount. You can set permission masks and gid/uid masks but they don't change the underlying permissions only effective permissions afaik. |
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| 00:22.54 | outoftime | lorek: looks like there are different problem. Even with sudo I'm getting "read-only filesystem" error message. fstab mounting line https://termbin.com/6x9m |
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| 00:35.14 | outoftime | lorek: solved. |
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| 01:06.28 | karlpinc | lorek: Isn't there a debian-live manual or something? There's also #debian-live, or so says dpkg. |
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| 01:15.25 | annadane | i should know the answer to this, but anyway, are there ways to configure apt such that daemons don't get autostarted on package install until it's required by the user? |
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| 01:17.07 | annadane | well, daemons/service units/whatever |
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| 01:20.49 | lorek | anne: yeah I think you can do that with a policy file |
| 01:21.32 | lorek | policy-rc.d, #!/bin/sh exit 101 (to deny all runlevel operations) |
| 01:23.00 | lorek | Major Hayden from major.io had a post on their blog about it awhile back (2014) |
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| 01:23.31 | annadane | https://major.io/2014/06/26/install-debian-packages-without-starting-daemons/ |
| 01:23.38 | lorek | that's it |
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| 01:24.19 | annadane | wonder if the config file location has changed from 2014 |
| 01:24.38 | annadane | but yeeeeah i really kind of wish debian didn't do that by default |
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| 01:26.01 | annadane | seems like a pretty stupid design decision IMHO |
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| 01:26.46 | lorek | yeah it is |
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| 01:27.28 | karlpinc | annadane: Yes and no. People expect the daemon to run when the software is installed. (sshd is a good example.) I'm not saying I don't see your point. |
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| 01:28.12 | annadane | the "proper" (and i'm not saying it is, but it makes a good thought experiment at least) way is to prompt the user about if they want stuff autostarted now |
| 01:28.52 | karlpinc | annadane: Nah. Prompting sucks. |
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| 01:29.24 | dvs | config option? |
| 01:29.50 | karlpinc | dvs: Absolutely. And maybe a command line option as well. |
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| 01:30.42 | annadane | i'd support a CLI option |
| 01:30.55 | annadane | well i'd support both |
| 01:31.17 | dvs | then file some bugs! |
| 01:31.23 | annadane | i don't think it causes *that* many problems, i'm sure the defaults are sane... but still |
| 01:33.19 | jadax | I have some old canon USB printer |
| 01:33.29 | jadax | how old could it be to add that printer to my debian distro? |
| 01:33.34 | jadax | not how old |
| 01:33.37 | jadax | how difficult! |
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| 01:34.40 | annadane | probably no way of telling unless you try it |
| 01:34.42 | karlpinc | jadax: Printers are always a pain in the butt in my opinion. See: zless /usr/share/doc/cups/README.Debian.gz |
| 01:34.46 | annadane | and whether it requires firmware or not |
| 01:35.18 | annadane | dvs, yeah maybe but i can't be the first person who's ever thought of it |
| 01:35.20 | karlpinc | jadax: Often you go to http://localhost:631 and poke it with a stick until it works. |
| 01:35.35 | karlpinc | annadane: Then you can add to an existing bug! ;-) |
| 01:36.25 | karlpinc | jadax: Often older hardware is easier. Support is rarely removed unless you're running proprietary software. |
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| 01:43.00 | annadane | ln -s /bin/generic-service /usr/bin/lib/proc/boot/man/.config/share/applications/local/bin/generic-service-autostart |
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| 01:49.40 | jadax | I successfully added a printer using http://localhost:631 |
| 01:50.08 | jadax | in debian's GUI settings-> printers shows my printer |
| 01:50.31 | dvs | so print a test page |
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| 01:55.28 | Borntuft | Good evening. I have a Canon Pixma MX492 printer connected via CUPS. I am able to print and scan on the flatbed using Debian 10 (connected wirelessly), however I can not get the automatic document feeder using Xsane. I get "operation cancelled" when I try to use the ADF |
| 01:55.40 | Borntuft | Are there any settings I should be enabling or using? |
| 01:58.21 | jadax | dvs ir printed half the page |
| 01:58.24 | jadax | and now it's stuck |
| 01:58.37 | jadax | this is linux for ye |
| 01:59.01 | annadane | i had an add-on question to earlier but i'll post it in oftc's #debian because other people have questions |
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| 02:08.58 | Oksana | How do I upgrade from oldstable to stable? |
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| 02:09.49 | annadane | Oksana, read the release notes https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/releasenotes |
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| 02:11.39 | aoc | is debian's eol 12 years feom now ? |
| 02:12.02 | Guest35155 | is debian's eol 12 years from now ? |
| 02:12.10 | annadane | no? |
| 02:12.44 | dvs | !confuse dvs |
| 02:12.44 | dpkg | No, them is your snake tomorrow, dvs? Shirts of the Democracy of Tibet with extra crabpaste. |
| 02:12.50 | Guest35155 | what programs does debian have that combat global warming ? |
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| 02:16.36 | karlpinc | Guest35155: Debian has 3 years of full support and 2 years of long-term support. See: https://www.debian.org/releases/ |
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| 02:19.56 | karlpinc | Borntuft: There may be some printer config file or another you could download. Or maybe there's a newer driver in testing that could be backported. hard to say. |
| 02:20.21 | Guest35155 | karlpinc, because of global warming we need to calculate a well planned eol for debian 12 years from now, i think we should provide debian users with a realistic time plan |
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| 02:29.02 | Oksana | annadane: Thank you. Fixed broken packages, upgrading stretch for now, not moving to stable yet. |
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| 02:29.39 | mason | Guest35155: powertop combats global warming |
| 02:30.31 | Oksana | wonders why aoc seems to think that end of world is coming in twelve years |
| 02:30.57 | annadane | #debian-offtopic |
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| 02:34.04 | Guest35155 | can i use xchat through a squid proxy ? is there a irc specific proxy ? |
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| 02:37.22 | Guest35155 | wait.. i'll tmux a client somewhere... i have hazy dreams of scrollz... |
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| 02:39.32 | Oksana | I think this writer mixed up Debian and Devuan GRUB menu entries https://epsi-rns.github.io/system/2017/08/08/distro-debian-devuan-migration.html |
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| 02:42.25 | annadane | uhhhhh. well, not sure we can really answer support questions on that |
| 02:45.14 | Guest35155 | i wonder how much bandwidth a network X connection to xchat would consume ? |
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| 02:46.26 | Guest35155 | ya know, i have to optimize my bandwidth consumption for community supported p0rn |
| 02:47.01 | Guest35155 | it's a city code like snow removal is |
| 02:47.03 | Oksana | I am trying to remove systemd, including libpam-systemd. I don't want to remove dbus, yet. dbus-user-session depends on libpam-systemd. What do I do about this? |
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| 02:48.01 | annadane | there's !remove systemd, though it does say jessie, don't know if it's the same in buster |
| 02:48.03 | Oksana | Hmm, I can just uninstall dbus-user-session. Doesn't officially break anything. |
| 02:48.03 | annadane | !remove systemd |
| 02:48.04 | dpkg | To use an init system other than systemd in jessie, install the systemd-shim package (for logind) and remove the systemd-sysv package: aptitude install systemd-shim sysvinit-core systemd-sysv-. To stick with sysvinit for wheezy->jessie upgrades, follow the pinning advice in the release notes: http://deb.li/30Kby - See also <upstart> and <openrc> |
| 02:48.13 | Guest35155 | geez, i think you need to start small and build up rather than tear down some distro |
| 02:48.33 | annadane | and yeah i also don't get the "must rip out systemd", but to each their own |
| 02:49.23 | Guest35155 | i have begun to appreciate the integration and ease of use of systemd |
| 02:49.28 | Oksana | I am just trying to avoid monopoly. I get that systemd, unlike Windows, is open-source, but I don't like monopoly. Especially when it produces a dependency hell of 'everything depends on systemd'. |
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| 02:50.10 | Guest35155 | heck, everything depends on /eyc/init.d is better ? |
| 02:50.17 | Guest35155 | etv |
| 02:50.19 | Guest35155 | etc |
| 02:50.22 | Guest35155 | yeah |
| 02:50.57 | Guest35155 | oops |
| 02:51.29 | theciaguy | systemd is superior based on its technical merits. I'm not concerned with peoples' ideological niggles. |
| 02:51.45 | annadane | basically the only linuxses i know with full* (sorta) support for non systemd is like, void, slackware and gentoo |
| 02:52.21 | Guest35155 | as long as systemd doesn't require signing or "drm" it;s ok |
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| 02:53.20 | FleaFart | why would it? It already has all the intel that it requires. |
| 02:53.34 | Guest35155 | the big red flag is when linux modules begin to require signing |
| 02:53.34 | Unit193 | theciaguy: Some people would argue the technical merit as well. |
| 02:54.10 | theciaguy | Unit193: There are some technical issues with systemd's design, but it is superior to what came before. People are welcome to argue that. There's no law against being wrong. |
| 02:56.24 | annadane | i think debian is good at avoiding the worst bit of systemd: the breaking-because-new bit (people had issues with systemd adoption in distros like fedora, which is more leading edge), debian is intentionally behind everyone else... and debian tends to put more testing into stuff |
| 02:56.29 | theciaguy | I am not defending every aspect of its design, don't get me wrong. (Binary logging, really?) |
| 02:56.36 | annadane | otherwise... avoiding systemd because of ideology seems a bit strange |
| 02:57.15 | annadane | because of technical reasons perhaps, but purely to avoid a monopoly, well, that monopoly is already there, so... |
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| 02:57.28 | FleaFart | Signing up with the companies that are backed by government is always fun when it comes to legal battles. I for one, believe Linux is already dead, and it the experts that are creating there own demise. nuff said. |
| 02:57.43 | Unit193 | annadane: With regards to that factoid, systemd-shim is only in oldstable, so for buster it'd be different. Unfortunately I only know the process for testing/unstable, not buster. |
| 02:58.10 | annadane | ...downside to debian being behind everyone else is our wiki and dpkg factoids suck :P |
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| 03:01.08 | FleaFart | Think about it, what is the difference between a virus and the big 6, (besides legally accepting in the legal agreements) .. Actually, what is the difference between China net and American net? |
| 03:01.47 | FleaFart | It this really what you guys want to build? |
| 03:01.58 | annadane | "big 6"? |
| 03:02.00 | theciaguy | That is some aircraft-grade tinfoil. |
| 03:02.18 | FleaFart | Add linux to the big five... |
| 03:02.27 | annadane | ehh |
| 03:02.42 | annadane | it's certainly true the linux foundation itself kind of sucks but i wouldn't lump systemd into that |
| 03:02.58 | Guest35155 | what is the console irc client to use ? i forgot the name |
| 03:03.14 | annadane | there's probably a few, irssi is the most well known |
| 03:03.21 | Unit193 | irssi or weechat. |
| 03:03.31 | Guest35155 | ah, yes irssi tnx |
| 03:05.51 | Oksana | annadane: The monopoly is already there, sure. I am trying to get out of the monopoly, if only just on my own computer. Thunar can replace caja; with pcmanfm as back-up. PolicyKit is concerning. |
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| 03:06.29 | annadane | i basically hate all file managers for different reasons |
| 03:06.41 | annadane | thunar/pcmanfm are probably my favorites though |
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| 03:07.14 | nsa_ | oooh |
| 03:07.23 | Oksana | Why does policykit depend on systemd in the first place?.. |
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| 03:09.05 | nsa_ | Oksana: systemd makes the structure for scripting system support systems easier |
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| 03:11.48 | FleaFart | nsa: yup, so everyone jumps on board because they can not code, and the farmers don't have to farm, they just spray chemicals from the same company that created agent orange. I fail to see how any of it will make a better future? |
| 03:12.11 | FleaFart | oh, this might interest you: http://www.stat.ucla.edu/~zyyao/projects/I2T.htm |
| 03:12.31 | Borntuft | karlpinc, thanks for your reply. I'll look into that |
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| 03:14.35 | FleaFart | btw, Devuan is a fork of Debian that doesn't use Systemd,,, in case your interested. |
| 03:14.40 | Oksana | Just brilliant. Going by Debian dependencies, the only alternative to systemd is consolekit, where MATE is concerned. But, ConsoleKit is apparently ancient, https://consolekit2.github.io/ConsoleKit2/ and ConsoleKit2 is not available in repositories. |
| 03:14.57 | Oksana | FleaFart: Yes, I am looking at https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-Install-Devuan/blob/master/migrate-to-ascii.md |
| 03:15.19 | FleaFart | I have it on all my boxes |
| 03:15.34 | Oksana | With which login/display manager? |
| 03:16.01 | Oksana | And which Desktop Environment? |
| 03:16.09 | Oksana | And which Window Manager? |
| 03:17.31 | FleaFart | List of channels . devuan . Be safe |
| 03:23.23 | mason | Oksana: FWIW, I yanked systemd out of a Buster install yesterday. Unproblematic, but I wasn't using anything that wasn't already using plain sysvinit scripts. |
| 03:24.07 | mason | Oksana: If you want a desktop environment, it's probably going to be tougher. |
| 03:24.27 | Oksana | Hmm, nice. I am running stretch, so installing systemd-shim should be simple, if Synaptic wasn't arguing that there are broken packages. |
| 03:25.04 | Oksana | E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. |
| 03:25.09 | mason | Oksana: And as noted, there's #devuan. Most of the packages come directly (directly!) from the Debian mirrors. Some don't. |
| 03:26.27 | mason | As for the politics of it all, well, that's much of the point of free software. If you don't like it, change it or replace it and give your improvements away, etc. |
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| 03:35.04 | Oksana | When I try to run 'aptitude install systemd-shim sysvinit-core systemd-sysv-' I see that aptitude is trying to remove lots of things. Why? Is it doing apt-get autoremove? |
| 03:38.13 | mason | Oksana: You'll have to look at the specific things being removed. As for what you're doing, this is more or less what I did yesterday: https://www.reddit.com/r/initFreedom/comments/cpj1ya/a_howtoremovesystemdfromdebianbuster_post_i_made/ |
| 03:39.28 | mason | I didn't bother with holding libsystemd0, as I see no reason for it not to be upgraded at present. Debian, AFAIK, doesn't ship libelogind0 and I'd want bugfixes as they appear. |
| 03:40.14 | mason | Well, I guess the pinning shoots that in the head. But anyway. |
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| 03:41.24 | Oksana | Thank you. systemd-shim is weird. |
| 03:41.43 | Oksana | But I got aptitude to not uninstall multitude of 'not being used' packages. |
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| 04:11.04 | Oksana | How do I get Wicd to configure Ethernet connection properly? I can ping 8.8.8.8 , but I cannot ping bing.com . |
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| 04:17.34 | bernyrd | how do I find which firmware files I need for a given radeon card |
| 04:17.38 | bernyrd | I tried checking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Radeon_HD_6000_Series |
| 04:17.43 | bernyrd | my card is 6450 |
| 04:17.52 | bernyrd | I need to put the firmware in the BIOS pflash |
| 04:17.57 | bernyrd | I only have space for a few files |
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| 04:22.49 | jmcnaught | bernyrd: "dmesg | grep -i firmware" and see which files the kernel is looking for but failing to load |
| 04:23.14 | bernyrd | well this is the tricky part, the motherboard must initialize the card I think |
| 04:23.30 | bernyrd | if I supply no firmware it seems to try to load files with R600 in the name |
| 04:23.49 | bernyrd | but checking this table R600 isn't even mentioned |
| 04:25.42 | bernyrd | oh no I see it |
| 04:25.44 | bernyrd | thank jmcnaught |
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| 04:26.15 | soda | hello! |
| 04:26.47 | soda | are there any ACTIVE channels regarding security? most are filled with lurkers only |
| 04:28.43 | bernyrd | it's all of the CAICOS files, BTC_rlc, and SUMO_{something} |
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| 04:40.11 | bernyrd | yeah still doesn't work |
| 04:42.01 | soda | i come bearing gifts, asking nothing in return: i have noticed that if u install firewalld, it automatically causes ufw's status to be set to DISABLED when restarting. The ONLY workable solution I have found is to UNINSTALL firewalld! (Don't tell me there's no need to run 2 simultaneous firewalls -- I'm aware of that!) |
| 04:42.24 | soda | but that is still undesirbale behaviour from a firewall app. |
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| 04:42.33 | soda | (just thought id share that tip) |
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| 07:22.13 | tdn | How can I have system accounts be locked for some time if wrong password was entered X times in a row? E.g. lock account for 30 minutes on 3 login attempts? Is this something that works "out of the box" or do I need special configuration? |
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| 07:22.47 | Haohmaru | i don't think that's the default behavior, no idea if it's possible, but i hope it is |
| 07:23.31 | Haohmaru | or if it is so by default, then the allowed attempts are muchos much |
| 07:24.30 | tdn | It is NOT on by default |
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| 07:27.13 | OerHeks | it is a PAM thingy, maybe this page is any help https://www.tecmint.com/lock-user-accounts-after-failed-login-attempts-in-linux/ >>> auth [default=die] pam_faillock.so authfail audit deny=3 unlock_time=300 |
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| 07:35.47 | tdn | Ough. I was hoping this would be something I could easily check off. Messing with PAM config is rather daunting and always involves the risk of locking myself out. |
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| 07:42.55 | xcorshinex | guys how to enable presentation mode on debian 10 mate? |
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| 07:50.32 | peetaur2 | Can anyone help with unexplained logless reboots (avg ~3 per day)? It started after upgrading from Debian 8 to 9 (kernel 4.9), and the problem is gone when downgrading the kernel (4.4 or 4.9 debian 8 backport), and stays when upgrading (4.19). |
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| 08:01.09 | jorge | hello ! |
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| 08:06.17 | KOLANICH | Hello everybody. |
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| 08:06.56 | Animal_Farming | bye |
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| 08:08.26 | KOLANICH | Where can I get the full list of standardized paths for Debian? I mean that are beyond FHS. Such as /usr/lib/java/<runtime>/ /etc/alternatives and /usr/share/applications |
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| 08:11.46 | ArlequInOut | KOLANICH, in the package content with command-line utils |
| 08:12.01 | ArlequInOut | https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/view-contents-of-deb-file/ |
| 08:12.22 | ArlequInOut | and man page also |
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| 09:31.37 | ov3rmind | good ugt! guys! |
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| 09:32.16 | DarkaMaul | I've a problem connecting to WPA2-entreprise (802.11X) wifi-network using wpa_supplicant v2.9 (debian testing). I get this error : CTRL-EVENT-ASSOC-REJECT bssid=00:00:00:00:00:00 status_code=16. Connection log for the command : https://pastebin.com/8R1uMC6K . |
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| 09:37.18 | vlt | Hello. How can I find out whether Debian 10 will run on an Intel Server Board S2600WFT? |
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| 09:39.18 | colo-work | vlt, by trying to boot it on that platform ;) I'm very positive it will just work. |
| 09:40.12 | vlt | colo-work: That's what I am thinking, too. But I'd like to know before confirming the order. |
| 09:40.14 | vlt | Hmmmm |
| 09:41.34 | tomreyn | you could try contacting someone who uses it (or seems to have used it in the past) |
| 09:42.01 | vlt | That's why I came here :D |
| 09:42.10 | tomreyn | more targetted, though |
| 09:42.27 | vlt | tries ##hardware |
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| 09:43.01 | tomreyn | i.e. search the web for debian "S2600WFT" |
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| 09:44.58 | colo-work | vlt, the platform ("Wolf Pass") should be well-supported. there's no real reason to be afraid it won't work. |
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| 09:52.16 | vlt | Ok, that should be enough confirmation. Thank you, everyone. |
| 09:52.50 | vlt | Is there a way to find out whether there's something in non-free (which I'd rather not use) that targets that hardware? |
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| 09:59.31 | no_gravity | Why does "time" give me numbers with a "," as the decimal seperator? |
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| 10:05.48 | colo-work | no_gravity, probably due to your locale? |
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| 10:06.59 | no_gravity | colo-work: Something in the output of "locale" that I should look for? |
| 10:07.11 | colo-work | https://paste.debian.net/plain/1106892 |
| 10:07.24 | colo-work | (my default locale is en_US.utf8) |
| 10:07.54 | no_gravity | colo-work: My LC_ALL isempty |
| 10:07.56 | colo-work | you probably have LC_NUMERIC (or something more general, like LANG) set to a locale with , as the decimal seperator |
| 10:08.11 | colo-work | what does `locale` yield for you? |
| 10:08.16 | colo-work | (nopaste) |
| 10:09.11 | no_gravity | colo-work: https://paste.debian.net/1106893/ |
| 10:10.07 | colo-work | LC_NUMERIC=de_DE.UTF-8 |
| 10:10.10 | no_gravity | Yeah |
| 10:10.13 | no_gravity | This works: |
| 10:10.17 | no_gravity | export LC_NUMERIC=en_US.UTF-8; time sleep .1 |
| 10:10.26 | no_gravity | I wonder if I should put that in my bashrc. |
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| 10:11.23 | xormor | no_gravity: sudo dpkg-reconfigure locales |
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| 10:11.34 | dka | Can I use True Wireless Earbuds with Debian ? |
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| 10:11.50 | colo-work | dka, if they use bluetooth, that's very likely |
| 10:11.59 | no_gravity | xormor: That will survive a reboot then? |
| 10:12.05 | dka | Ok, but I am not able to peer anything with my bluetooth |
| 10:12.10 | xormor | no_gravity: yes. |
| 10:12.19 | dka | For example, I have a Jabra Solmate speaker, and I am not able to use it through bluetooth on debian |
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| 10:12.46 | no_gravity | xormor: Ok, I'll try that. |
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| 10:13.39 | no_gravity | xormor: Jesus, that brings up a tricky ui... |
| 10:13.54 | no_gravity | xormor: And does not let me set LC_NUMERIC. |
| 10:14.02 | colo-work | dka, how do you try to pair; what tool do you use? I've had good results with "blueman" in the past. |
| 10:14.19 | dka | I have just debian |
| 10:14.27 | dka | So it's bluetooth manager |
| 10:14.28 | xormor | no_gravity: I think it will set LC_NUMERIC as well... |
| 10:14.33 | colo-work | no_gravity, check out update-locale(8) |
| 10:14.37 | xormor | no_gravity: I will test it... |
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| 10:17.24 | no_gravity | So I have put this in my bashrc now: export LC_NUMERIC=en_US.UTF-8 |
| 10:17.29 | no_gravity | Hope it will not break anything :) |
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| 10:18.50 | humbot | separator |
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| 10:20.47 | no_gravity | humbot: ? |
| 10:20.54 | xormor | no_gravity: https://paste.debian.net/1106894/ |
| 10:21.17 | no_gravity | xormor: Yeah. I'm not sure if I want that. |
| 10:21.37 | no_gravity | For example, this might be fine for me: LC_PAPER=de_DE.UTF-8 |
| 10:21.45 | xormor | no_gravity: I will first kill X and then reboot. |
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| 10:23.47 | colo-work | no_gravity, depending on your setup, $HOME/.pam_environment might be a better fit for your needs |
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| 10:24.15 | xormor | no_gravity: I came back after killing X (the system restarted it, and I logged back in with my default username). It asked me if I want to change the names in my $HOME, like "Videot" to "Videos" etc. so I said "no, and don't ask again." |
| 10:24.52 | xormor | no_gravity: now I will try to restart the whole computer. |
| 10:25.52 | no_gravity | xormor: Damn, I will restart my machine too. I hope "dpkg-reconfigure locales" did not fuck something up ... |
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| 10:41.56 | no_gravity | Looks like my locale stayed the way it was. |
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| 10:42.16 | no_gravity | Except the LC_NUMERIC of course. Which is now en_US.UTF-8 |
| 10:42.19 | no_gravity | So all is fine. |
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| 10:55.37 | GUEST5331 | türk varmı |
| 10:55.56 | GUEST5331 | varsa söylesin |
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| 10:58.39 | avu | !tr |
| 10:58.39 | dpkg | somebody said tr was t�rk�e yardIm i�in #debian.tr (irc.freenode.net): -- if you need help in turkish, please join #debian.tr on irc.freenode.net. |
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| 10:59.04 | GUEST5331 | lan avu türk müsün |
| 10:59.27 | GUEST5331 | hadi cevap yaz bebiÅim |
| 10:59.41 | GUEST5331 | caNIM CÄ°ÄERÄ°M |
| 10:59.47 | GUEST5331 | AÅKIM |
| 10:59.53 | GUEST5331 | SEVGÄ°LÄ°M |
| 11:00.04 | GUEST5331 | BEBEK SÃYLE |
| 11:00.16 | GUEST5331 | HADÄ° SEVÄ°ÅELÄ°M |
| 11:00.17 | jelly | !tr |
| 11:00.17 | dpkg | tr is, like, t�rk�e yardIm i�in #debian.tr (irc.freenode.net): -- if you need help in turkish, please join #debian.tr on irc.freenode.net. |
| 11:01.18 | GUEST5331 | BU KADAR HADÄ° GELLLLLLLLL |
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| 11:01.40 | GUEST5331 | NOLDU LAN |
| 11:01.59 | GUEST5331 | HADÄ° GÃTÃN YEMEDÄ°MÄ° |
| 11:02.11 | GUEST5331 | HADÄ° GELLL SEVÄ°ÅMEYE |
| 11:02.17 | GUEST5331 | HADÄ°Ä°Ä°Ä°Ä°Ä°Ä°Ä°Ä°Ä°Ä°Ä°Ä°Ä°Ä°Ä°Ä°Ä°Ä°Ä° |
| 11:02.35 | epsilon | don't drink and irc |
| 11:03.43 | GUEST5331 | AÅKIM |
| 11:03.49 | GUEST5331 | GELLLL GELLL |
| 11:04.08 | GUEST5331 | EVLENELÄ°M GELLL DE |
| 11:04.25 | GUEST5331 | HADÄ°Ä°Ä°Ä°Ä°Ä° |
| 11:04.44 | GUEST5331 | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:05.06 | epsilon | !ops |
| 11:05.09 | GUEST5331 | SEXXXXXXXXX |
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| 11:05.23 | GUEST5331 | SDGXÅGH |
| 11:05.24 | GUEST5331 | FGMNXDOFKHJ |
| 11:05.26 | GUEST5331 | FGTJKSDFIOGUH |
| 11:05.26 | GUEST5331 | RGBIDFUG |
| 11:05.27 | GUEST5331 | RMKGHHYUG |
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| 11:09.57 | tomreyn | i think this message should say türkçe yardIm için #debian.tr (irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:10.08 | tomreyn | (broken unicode) |
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| 11:12.22 | Haohmaru | <capslock_intensifies.gif> |
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| 11:25.32 | avu | dpkg: no, tr is türkçe yardIm için #debian.tr (irc.freenode.net) -- if you need help in turkish, please join #debian.tr on irc.freenode.net. |
| 11:25.33 | dpkg | okay, avu |
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| 11:55.37 | epony | Upgrade sudo now: https://www.sudo.ws/alerts/minus_1_uid.html |
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| 11:57.57 | fairway | hi |
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| 12:18.00 | transhuman | so, I have tried several things on both Ubuntu and Debian for a fast randomization of a hard drive came across this command pv âtimer ârate âstop-at-size -s "$(blockdev âgetsize64 /dev/sda )" /dev/urandom > /dev/sda , seems 8 times faster than other methods my question is this with the getsize64 whats the maximum sized hard drive that this will work with? |
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| 12:34.21 | ratrace | transhuman: why not a simple dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sda status=progress ? |
| 12:34.45 | transhuman | cause I didnt think of it |
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| 12:34.49 | ratrace | another method is using LUKS and dd-ing /dev/zero into the mapped device, but I hear urandom is just as fast these days |
| 12:34.58 | transhuman | that would proably be even faster |
| 12:35.01 | ratrace | (it wasn't in the past) |
| 12:35.44 | transhuman | anyway that is at least 8 times faster than shred |
| 12:35.55 | ratrace | at any rate, the LUKS method, if you have aesni in the cpu, is guaranteed to saturate sata3, |
| 12:36.02 | transhuman | think its the driver thats the issue |
| 12:36.09 | ratrace | transhuman: shred does multiple passes though |
| 12:36.25 | transhuman | screw it I can run the command multiple times! |
| 12:37.06 | transhuman | it takes shred nearly 15 days for an 8 TB drive will only take 2 days for dd |
| 12:37.16 | ratrace | not sure that's necessary. I seriously doubt anyone can take anything out of a drive that has randomized sectors. I think the NSA recommendations from the past were just about future-proofing, but let's be real, you don't have chinese next-gen nuclear missile blueprints onthat drive, do you :) |
| 12:37.36 | transhuman | just by the number of MB its throughputting |
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| 12:38.20 | Haohmaru | hanstruman |
| 12:38.36 | transhuman | I zeroed out the drives for one pass and writing random data for second then a quick reformat before selling |
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| 12:39.03 | transhuman | good enough for what was on it for sure |
| 12:39.21 | transhuman | noone is going to spend a 100k to get the data off it |
| 12:39.33 | ratrace | I never sell drives, I take them to the welding machine, then I hammer smash them, then I toss into recycling |
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| 12:40.09 | transhuman | not to mention the intial data was encrypted anyway |
| 12:40.13 | GuiltySpark343 | What about drilling holes in it? |
| 12:40.28 | transhuman | I want the money for selling 4 8 TB drives |
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| 12:40.43 | transhuman | need a video card |
| 12:40.44 | ratrace | transhuman: that's science fiction, no forensic tool can salvage data. what they _might_ read is patterns, and from patterns perhaps extrapolate with some help of AI, bit DELTAS between adjacent sectors. but yeah, that's very very very costly. |
| 12:41.17 | transhuman | yeah its not like the old days of hard drives from what I understand |
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| 12:41.47 | Haohmaru | ratrace bruh, have u seen Horatio's image "enhance" algorithm |
| 12:41.57 | Haohmaru | u only need 1 pixel |
| 12:41.59 | GuiltySpark343 | transhuman: don't listen to ratrace. He's an NSA spook sent here to misinform us and give us nerds a false sense of security and privacy! |
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| 12:42.11 | ratrace | Haohmaru: IRL even. https://interestingengineering.com/a-violent-stalker-found-a-japanese-artists-home-by-zooming-in-on-her-eyes |
| 12:42.29 | transhuman | yeah I read that thats freaking like the movies |
| 12:43.16 | transhuman | guess you have to wear contacts or something when doing videos now |
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| 12:43.58 | ratrace | transhuman: matte black sclera lenses. mmmmh yummy. |
| 12:44.08 | jelly | !offtopic |
| 12:44.08 | dpkg | #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. |
| 12:44.38 | transhuman | sorry didn't mean to start that one |
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| 12:44.55 | transhuman | anyway thanks |
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| 12:51.05 | melpy | does this channel have any up to date log online yet |
| 12:51.24 | greycat | !itclog |
| 12:51.29 | greycat | !irclog |
| 12:51.30 | dpkg | it has been said that irclog is #debian on <freenode> is logged at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23debian/ , #debian on <OFTC> is logged at http://irclogs.thegrebs.com/debian/ |
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| 13:00.55 | greycat | The log has a character encoding issue. themill jak2000: you have no ë#!/bin/shû line in that script |
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| 13:12.22 | no_gravity | Why does this show me the hostname in less? ssh example.com 'echo 123' | less |
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| 13:12.48 | no_gravity | It shows me this: ESC]0;ssh example.com echo 123^G123 |
| 13:12.51 | greycat | becauuuuse... your hostname is 123? because the 'echo' command on example.com has been replaced? |
| 13:12.52 | no_gravity | Why not just 123? |
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| 13:13.07 | greycat | or you've got something naughty in your .bashrc on example.com and it's using a Debian-ish bash |
| 13:13.22 | no_gravity | greycat: AHAHAHAHA! Yeah, I replaces ssh with a function! |
| 13:13.50 | no_gravity | ssh() { printf '\e]0;%s\a' "ssh $*"; command ssh "$@"; } |
| 13:13.52 | dvs | why have single quotes around "echo 123"? |
| 13:13.59 | greycat | the ESC]0; ... ^G part looks like someone attempting to set the xterm title bar |
| 13:14.12 | no_gravity | greycat: Yes. Just added that to my bashrc today. |
| 13:14.53 | greycat | ssh() { if -t 0; then printf ...; fi; command ssh "$@"; } |
| 13:14.57 | greycat | oops |
| 13:15.02 | greycat | ssh() { if test -t 1; then printf ...; fi; command ssh "$@"; } |
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| 13:15.51 | no_gravity | greycat: Awesome! |
| 13:16.05 | humbot | :v |
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| 13:33.33 | no_gravity | I started performance testing different VMs today. |
| 13:33.37 | no_gravity | When you measure something with "time ..." the value labeled "real" is what you would measure with a stopwatch, right? |
| 13:33.42 | greycat | yes |
| 13:33.51 | no_gravity | Awesome, thanks. |
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| 13:44.15 | russw | I'm rolling up my sleeves to upgrade from stretch->buster and am going through the official docs. It mentions the upgrade process is for "pure" debian, yet I have chrome, slack, sublime, vscode, and a few others in my sources.list.d/. |
| 13:44.32 | russw | Are these generally safe to leave in place, or should I uninstall them before upgrading? |
| 13:44.32 | greycat | google-chrome has never given me any problems |
| 13:45.32 | russw | greycat: thanks... so you just leave it in place and nothing explodes? :) |
| 13:45.46 | greycat | Yeah. But I don't know the others. |
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| 14:29.18 | cstls | if i'm trying to find a substring in a line from stdout, is it best to use awk for this? |
| 14:29.41 | greycat | what do you want to do when you "find" It? |
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| 14:29.43 | derfragemasterma | he |
| 14:29.44 | derfragemasterma | hey |
| 14:29.47 | derfragemasterma | helpppp |
| 14:30.12 | cstls | trying to isolate a line of text, where the line contains 'node' |
| 14:30.16 | greycat | grep node |
| 14:30.25 | cstls | but that returns the entire line |
| 14:30.26 | petn-randall | derfragemasterma: Try asking a question, and you might get an answer. |
| 14:30.29 | petn-randall | !ask |
| 14:30.30 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 14:30.32 | greycat | 10:30 cstls> trying to isolate a line of text, where the line contains 'node' |
| 14:30.37 | derfragemasterma | i have new pc |
| 14:30.38 | greycat | That is LITERALLY what you ASKED FOR. |
| 14:30.43 | derfragemasterma | AMD RYZEN 3900X |
| 14:30.47 | derfragemasterma | Can i put DEBIAN onn there? |
| 14:30.49 | derfragemasterma | or Debian too old?? |
| 14:30.54 | cstls | nope |
| 14:31.10 | cstls | not what i MEANT |
| 14:31.30 | petn-randall | derfragemasterma: I'm pretty sure Debian runs fine on it. |
| 14:31.49 | derfragemasterma | petn-randall thanks |
| 14:31.53 | derfragemasterma | Debian stable and which DE do you recommendà |
| 14:31.55 | derfragemasterma | ? |
| 14:32.09 | petn-randall | derfragemasterma: I would start with stable, yes. |
| 14:32.09 | cstls | grecay: 10:29 < cstls:#debian> if i'm trying to find a substring in a line from stdout |
| 14:32.13 | derfragemasterma | Thans |
| 14:32.15 | derfragemasterma | And which DE? |
| 14:32.33 | greycat | 10:29 greycat> what do you want to do when you "find" It? |
| 14:32.52 | derfragemasterma | petn-randall :) |
| 14:33.30 | cstls | to grab the subtring at the matching regex |
| 14:33.50 | petn-randall | derfragemasterma: Whatever DE you like most. |
| 14:33.53 | greycat | So suddenly there is a regex involved, not a substring. Show REALISTIC sample input, and tell us what output you expect. |
| 14:34.10 | petn-randall | derfragemasterma: The large ones are Gnome, KDE and Xfce. You can try them all, even on the same installation. |
| 14:34.20 | derfragemasterma | oK THANKS! |
| 14:34.26 | derfragemasterma | I WILL INSTALL NOW ! |
| 14:34.36 | petn-randall | Ok, no need to yell in here. :) |
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| 14:47.08 | cybrNaut | This does not work on Debian => torsocks lynx 'http://searxes.nmqnkngye4ct7bgss4bmv5ca3wpa55yugvxen5kz2bbq67lwy6ps54yd.onion/' |
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| 14:47.28 | cybrNaut | problem is that Debian does not yet support version 3 onion URLs |
| 14:47.35 | cybrNaut | correct? |
| 14:47.40 | cstls | greycat, using a regex does not exclude substring, no idea what you're even talking about |
| 14:47.51 | greycat | Show REALISTIC sample input, and tell us what output you expect. |
| 14:48.14 | cstls | enough with the emphasis, too |
| 14:48.34 | greycat | Well, that's it. My patience with you is exhausted. *plonk* |
| 14:49.07 | greycat | If you went out of your way to make everyone angry and unwilling to help you, then congratulations. It worked. |
| 14:49.19 | cstls | i think you started off irate |
| 14:49.28 | cstls | which is also fine |
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| 14:50.04 | Ede|Popede | grep has this nice -o option |
| 14:50.18 | greycat | GNU grep does. Standard grep does not. |
| 14:50.32 | cstls | ah thanks ede |
| 14:51.25 | greycat | Ideally, when designing a programming solution to a question, we'd want to know the platforms on which the code is expected to run. But in this case we couldn't even get one line of sample input. Good luck trying to squeeze out details like the set of target operating systems. |
| 14:51.33 | cstls | ede, that did the trick! thank you |
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| 14:51.53 | cstls | gotcha |
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| 14:51.58 | cstls | will work on that |
| 14:52.09 | Ede|Popede | some up to date debian with the usual set of tools installed? |
| 14:52.20 | cstls | yes |
| 14:52.20 | Ede|Popede | chances should be above 99% here |
| 14:52.25 | cstls | worked perfectly |
| 14:53.08 | greycat | Granted, because we're in #debian, we can just give a Debian-only solution. Murphy says that they will reject this because it doesn't work portably, but that's THEIR fault for asking in the wrong channel, and you can shrug and brush 'em off. |
| 14:53.21 | Ede|Popede | i tried years ago to go with classic sets, cal, old grep, what not. but usually GNU implements really handy extensions |
| 14:53.25 | greycat | But nothing at all can be done until sample input is shown. |
| 14:53.45 | cstls | well it was answered, so save your energy |
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| 14:54.36 | Ede|Popede | i think i'll set up a POSIX conformant system when i'm done with the daily beast and see how it would work out |
| 14:57.09 | jelly | Ede|Popede has access to POSIX standard? |
| 14:57.17 | humbot | "to grab the subtring at the matching regex" |
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| 14:57.30 | greycat | https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/contents.html |
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| 14:58.03 | jelly | ,i posh |
| 14:58.04 | judd | Package posh (shells, optional) in buster/amd64: Policy-compliant Ordinary SHell. Version: 0.13.2; Size: 88.8k; Installed: 190k; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/posh |
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| 15:10.49 | noodlepie | Hiya guys! |
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| 15:15.58 | Kabouik | Hi there. With the sudo vulnerability recently discovered, I realized that sudo on Debian Jessie is still in version 1.8.10p3. The version that fixes the vulnerability is 1.8.28. Is there no way to update sudo using apt on Jessie? |
| 15:16.22 | greycat | Nope. It's no longer receiving security support. |
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| 15:16.35 | Kabouik | Eew. :/ |
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| 15:17.23 | Kabouik | I have a VPS running Jessie, I thought it would be supported until 2020. dist-upgrade on a VPS sounds a bit frightening, I'm sure it'll break many things on the server. |
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| 15:18.18 | greycat | It's possible that the LTS team will offer a fixed package at some point. |
| 15:19.31 | Kabouik | I hope so, they did not update sudo in a while it seems, but a vulnerability on sudo will hopefully justify it |
| 15:19.56 | jelly | Kabouik: do you actually use the affected peculiar configuration of sudo anywhere? |
| 15:20.51 | Kabouik | No I don't think so, unless it is default. I don't feel the urge of updating, but since I'm no wizard, I was not sure whether I would be affected or not. |
| 15:21.18 | greycat | If you only use the default config, you're not affected. |
| 15:21.21 | Kabouik | The thing is I experienced some quite intense attack attempts on my server in the past few weeks (finally fixed, I hope), so I wanted to clear that too |
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| 15:40.43 | karlpinc | Kabouik: I've not had problems with major release upgrades on a VPS. At lest not if VPS is a VM. Of course, it's a remote system so that's always an issue. Hopefully you've console access of some sort should things go totally sideways. |
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| 15:44.16 | xormor | I think I have a NAT, if not that, then a sort of a firewall. How do I let my neighbor in my computer via the Internet, or should I use a Wi-Fi or a WLAN? I want him to be able to log in via ssh, and play a game called omega-rpg. |
| 15:45.07 | greycat | xormor: if you're behind a NAT (pretty common), you might be able to configure the NAT router to forward an incoming port to your internal IP address |
| 15:45.30 | xormor | greycat: is it in my modem? |
| 15:45.37 | greycat | it... could be. |
| 15:46.05 | xormor | greycat: I want port 22, if that is the SSH server port. Or if not, I will use another port. I will check /etc/services now. |
| 15:46.06 | greycat | do you have a combo modem+router, or do you have separate modem and router boxes? |
| 15:46.19 | xormor | greycat: it is a combo. it is all in the same box. |
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| 15:46.52 | greycat | well, login to it (most of them have a web interface, and an admin password), and see if you can configure it to forward a port to you |
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| 15:47.49 | xormor | greycat: I do not want to get any trouble from tinkering with my modem's settings. I do not want to have to do a factory reset. Yes... I will do it, later, if I feel like it. I am a bit tired. It is 18:47 (evening here now, 06:47PM the U.S. notation). |
| 15:47.49 | choice | Strange: I installed Debian 10, then apache2 and php. But Apache does not execute .php files. What did I do wrong? |
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| 15:50.12 | Mathisen | choice, install libapache2-mod-php7.3 |
| 15:50.20 | choice | Mathisen: Strange. I installed LAMP a bunch of times but never explicitely installed that. |
| 15:50.24 | choice | It always worked. |
| 15:50.36 | choice | Mathisen: Installed that now, restarted apache - it still does not execute PHP. |
| 15:51.44 | Mathisen | it should... |
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| 15:52.47 | greycat | are the modules enabled, in /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/ ? |
| 15:52.51 | jelly | doesn't mod_php only work with mpm_prefork? |
| 15:53.11 | jelly | and some other mpm is default in debian's apache 2.4 |
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| 15:54.33 | choice | This made it work for some reason: a2dismod mpm_event & a2enmod mpm_prefork & a2enmod php7.3 |
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| 15:55.19 | greycat | looks at his *shudder* php box, and discovers it's still using the stretch php 7.0 modules |
| 15:56.20 | greycat | there, told it to use php7.3 instead |
| 15:57.21 | choice | So is that the right way to run php these days? |
| 15:57.37 | greycat | there is no right way to run PHP, ever |
| 15:57.58 | greycat | the only reason it's on this box of mine is because mediawiki uses it |
| 15:58.25 | choice | Strange. Wehn I install Debian10-slim in docker, I do not have to do any of that. Just instlling apache2 and php is enough. Why? |
| 15:58.39 | Mathisen | for me i just purged old php versions and installed 7.3 when i upgraded to buster. did not have to do any more fancy stuff |
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| 15:59.13 | greycat | I'm not sure "a2dismod php7.0; a2enmod php7.3" is fancy |
| 15:59.42 | choice | greycat: I did not do that. |
| 16:00.00 | greycat | well of course not; you didn't upgrade from stretch |
| 16:00.07 | choice | Why is "libapache2-mod-php7.3" not installed when I do "apt install php"? |
| 16:00.09 | karlpinc | choice: It may be because php-fpm is generally a better approach. Although I do recall having to enable modules in the past to get apache+php to work. |
| 16:00.20 | karlpinc | choice: See the apache README.Debian |
| 16:00.29 | karlpinc | !tell choice about readme.debian |
| 16:00.50 | choice | Could it be because of the order I installed PHP and Apache? |
| 16:01.17 | karlpinc | choice: Probably not. If you really care you can look at the changelog. |
| 16:01.41 | jelly | ,depends php |
| 16:01.42 | judd | Package php in buster/amd64 -- depends: php7.3. |
| 16:01.48 | karlpinc | choice: Then you can see who made the change and when. See if there's a discussion on the package's mailing list. And if not, go ask. |
| 16:01.51 | jelly | ,depends php7.3 |
| 16:01.52 | judd | Package php7.3 in buster/amd64 -- depends: libapache2-mod-php7.3 | php7.3-fpm | php7.3-cgi, php7.3-common. |
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| 16:02.17 | choice | I did it in this order: |
| 16:02.19 | choice | apt-get install php -y |
| 16:02.20 | choice | apt-get install apache2 -y |
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| 16:02.51 | jelly | choice: complete output of those commands might be instructive |
| 16:03.15 | choice | jelly: Well, now it's too late. |
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| 16:33.03 | johnfg | hi folks |
| 16:33.04 | netcrash | What happens I I logrotate a symlink?have a log dc01.log and a lynk dc01.domain.lan to that dc01.log , what happens I use logrotate on this? |
| 16:33.37 | greycat | Try It And See |
| 16:33.41 | johnfg | Any idea whether either TeamViewer or Slack have service files for them to be started by systemd at boot? |
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| 16:36.56 | johnfg | I did find teamviewerd.service, so that's done, but am wondering about slack. |
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| 16:44.19 | netcrash | Doesn't do rotation on symlinks |
| 16:45.23 | jelly | johnfg: Slack as in client for the chat service? Or some other Slack? |
| 16:47.22 | johnfg | as in client for the chat service (which I've been using a *lot*)! |
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| 16:47.40 | greycat | why would a chat client start at boot? |
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| 16:52.07 | rhoshack | any one who knows how to join another group plsss |
| 16:52.20 | greycat | in most clients, "/join #channelname" |
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| 16:52.30 | greycat | I'm assuming you mean join another IRC channel |
| 16:52.45 | rhoshack | yes i am |
| 16:52.53 | SerajewelKS | johnfg: if the slack client is text-mode then it would be possible to have a systemd user unit run it in screen, which you could attach to... but i question the wisdom of doing this |
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| 16:53.52 | SerajewelKS | johnfg: if the client is an X/wayland client then you need an existing desktop session for it to run inside of. running it at boot may therefore not even be possible, unless you're also starting, say, an X VNC service at boot as well. |
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| 16:59.24 | no_gravity | What is a good way to pipe a directory to another machine? Via tar/gzip/zip? |
| 16:59.41 | wakawako | hi |
| 16:59.43 | *** join/#debian m0u (~m0u@unaffiliated/m0u) |
| 16:59.48 | greycat | rsync is a great choice. if rsync's not available on the target, then tar over ssh. |
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| 17:02.56 | no_gravity | greycat: Like this? tar -cO mydir | ssh othermachine 'tar -x' |
| 17:03.09 | wakawako | what is the best tools for checking a software wise outdated system if it´s you want to guarantee that it´s fine? |
| 17:03.25 | greycat | cd /src && tar cf - . | ssh user@host 'cd /dest && tar xf -' |
| 17:03.27 | greycat | or similar |
| 17:03.46 | no_gravity | greycat: Let me try that ... |
| 17:04.25 | c-c | wakawako: maybe you could do # apt update |
| 17:04.27 | greycat | wakawako: if you suspect it may have been compromised in the past, your best bet is to wipe it and reinstall |
| 17:05.17 | wakawako | what if I don´t want to wipe it entirely but rather save it from being compromised? |
| 17:05.33 | c-c | have you tried rkhunter or clamav? |
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| 17:07.33 | wakawako | tried it but it had no chance to detect it |
| 17:08.28 | c-c | funny how apt doesn't seem to know --simulate |
| 17:08.33 | greycat | To *prevent* it from being compromised, keep it up to date on security patches, and follow general good practices. Minimize the services you run, especially the ones exposed to the Internet. Don't break permissions. Disable password logins if you can, or use strong passwords if you must. |
| 17:08.56 | greycat | c-c: it has -s |
| 17:09.05 | greycat | wooledg:~$ apt -s install bash |
| 17:09.05 | greycat | NOTE: This is only a simulation! |
| 17:10.53 | wakawako | same has happened on a different machine with a different tool, neither did an AV as Avast succeed finding even a windows trojan nearly ago and it was a very nasty one too |
| 17:11.09 | wakawako | nearly a decade ago* |
| 17:11.10 | c-c | $ apt -s update --> Command line option 's' [from -s] is not understood in combination with the other options. |
| 17:11.44 | wakawako | sure that the apt command is fine to use on a stable version? |
| 17:11.55 | greycat | well, there's nothing to simulate in an update |
| 17:11.55 | c-c | wakawako: what has happened? |
| 17:12.11 | c-c | greycat: you could get a number on updates |
| 17:12.28 | wakawako | a few months ago I clicked on a link that made a machine behave weird |
| 17:12.34 | greycat | Without connecting to the servers and downloading the package lists? No. |
| 17:12.51 | *** join/#debian Mad_Hat (~Mad_Hat@72x18x38x7.static.newroadstelecom.net) |
| 17:12.59 | wakawako | the browser had trouble loading a youtube video properly |
| 17:13.30 | wakawako | what do you mean now with downloading a package list? |
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| 17:14.12 | greycat | "apt update" downloads package lists from the internet. If you were "simulating" it, it would do nothing. There would be no new information. No way the "simulation" could tell you how many new package updates there are. |
| 17:14.13 | c-c | wakawako: the browser used different player libraries for youtube in 2009, 2014 and 2017 |
| 17:14.27 | mutante | wakawako: what "update" does is only downloading the list of package versions, not upgrading packages |
| 17:14.41 | wakawako | oh |
| 17:15.01 | wakawako | Thought you meant something else at first |
| 17:15.04 | mutante | wakawako: "upgrade" is another story |
| 17:15.06 | c-c | greycat: simulation would download, count the package list, perhaps show the delta/diff in numbers, but leave package list files as they are. |
| 17:15.26 | c-c | greycat: thats why apt-get has -s |
| 17:15.35 | greycat | downloading the lists and throwing them in a black hole afterward? how fucking wasteful. I fully support the Debian developers in NOT doing that. |
| 17:15.39 | mutante | download to /tmp/ or something? |
| 17:15.47 | c-c | hm, or does it |
| 17:16.04 | greycat | Anyway, apt -s works for everything other than "update", and that's fine. |
| 17:16.40 | c-c | greycat: simulation is not wasteful |
| 17:16.45 | greycat | ... |
| 17:16.49 | c-c | greycat: its for people who don't make mistakes |
| 17:16.51 | greycat | Why is everyone trying to PISS ME OFF today. |
| 17:16.58 | wakawako | just realized a thing I forgot to do when it happened, I should have used vrms to see if something new happened |
| 17:17.01 | humbot | dark side of the moon |
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| 17:17.08 | greycat | The Moon is Waning Gibbous (97% of Full) |
| 17:17.12 | c-c | see, you wen't DIW and started judging my computing just now |
| 17:17.26 | c-c | its not your business to judge my simulation desires |
| 17:17.30 | greycat | *plonk* |
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| 17:17.48 | greycat | It *IS* my business to judge whether you are worth spending my time on. |
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| 17:18.27 | c-c | hands greycat the napoleon hatr |
| 17:18.37 | mutante | facepalm.. over a command line parameter |
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| 17:18.56 | c-c | in fact, thats a shortcoming in apt |
| 17:18.57 | wakawako | since mentioned debian developers, has something been newly discovered at their end with the help of the reportbug tool? |
| 17:19.38 | SerajewelKS | c-c: -s doesn't waste server resources when you run it with install/upgrade, the information is local. what you're proposing would actually cost mirror operators additional money. |
| 17:19.41 | c-c | - this means you have no way of seeing what apt wants to update, without changing your systen (package lists) |
| 17:20.08 | SerajewelKS | c-c: package lists are ephemeral information and are largely useless if they are out-of-date anyway as the packages they refer to could be deleted |
| 17:20.15 | jelly | c-c: -s is more of a dry run option than a simulation. What you're describing would be completely new functionality. |
| 17:20.34 | c-c | - which might be useful when you have a scenario that wakawako proposed: a potentially somehow compromized system |
| 17:21.00 | SerajewelKS | c-c: if the system is compromised then the addition of a feature to apt is not going to save you |
| 17:21.14 | wakawako | is -a ls a good option? |
| 17:21.59 | user404 | Hello guys. How are you? I got a strange problem. Running 'sudo updatedb', I got an error msg saying permission denied for '/run/user/1000/doc'. Checking this file with 'ls -ahl', it was created Dec 31, 1969 and the permissions are 0500, owner and group belongs to my user. When I login as root, permissions are ??? for owner, group and others, as well as for other columns listed by 'ls -ahl'. I |
| 17:22.01 | *** join/#debian tMH (tmh@kak-sam.to) |
| 17:22.01 | c-c | its probably enough to have "upgrade" as dry run for most |
| 17:22.02 | user404 | can't delete it using my user nether root. |
| 17:22.08 | tMH | hello debians!:) |
| 17:22.16 | user404 | What can I do with this directory: |
| 17:22.19 | user404 | ? |
| 17:22.42 | greycat | user404: if you run "id" as yourself, is your UID 1000? |
| 17:22.42 | jelly | c-c: and update is a prequisite for any of the command that actually change the system |
| 17:22.55 | user404 | greycat yes |
| 17:22.59 | c-c | user404: you could $ su - and then try |
| 17:23.15 | user404 | c-c i'll try, just a sec |
| 17:23.18 | greycat | then in theory, you should be able to do whatever you want in there, as yourself... you should be the owner. |
| 17:23.29 | tMH | I have 3.16.0 / Debian 7.11 - on pentium II - 128mb ram. is it good idea to upgrade it to the jessie (8.*) release of Debian or its better to stay with this 7.11 forever?;) |
| 17:23.31 | jelly | user404: you should run updatedb with a config file, and let it avoid tmpfs mountpoints |
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| 17:23.53 | greycat | even though *my* /run/user/$UID/ doesn't have a doc subdirectory |
| 17:24.02 | jelly | user404: like the cron job that calls it actually does |
| 17:24.45 | greycat | tMH: if you don't upgrade, you will be more and more vulnerable to undiscovered security issues, because Debian 7 is not receiving any updates |
| 17:24.46 | jelly | tMH: if you have a GUI on it. don't upgrade, each newer release eats more RAM |
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| 17:24.54 | jelly | !elts |
| 17:24.54 | dpkg | Limited commercial support for wheezy exists in form of Extended LTS, see https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Extended and https://deb.freexian.com/extended-lts/ |
| 17:25.01 | tMH | jelly - no, it's console only host:) |
| 17:25.22 | wakawako | Would personally say go upgrade the OS but I do not know if it´s compatible with the hardware |
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| 17:25.29 | greycat | It is compatible. |
| 17:25.35 | wakawako | cool |
| 17:25.38 | greycat | Even debian 10 should run on that hardware. |
| 17:25.45 | tMH | really? |
| 17:25.46 | jelly | tMH: 128M is still barely enough to keep dpkg and apt working. |
| 17:25.56 | tMH | jelly - aha! |
| 17:25.58 | user404 | jelly got it, but what does tmpfs mountpoints do exactly? The name suggest it is temporary mounted, maybe during the boot time. Is that right? |
| 17:25.59 | tMH | 10x ppl :) |
| 17:26.09 | c-c | tMH: I would ask myself how much Strawberry Pi Zero W costs |
| 17:26.18 | SerajewelKS | user404: it's a RAM filesystem |
| 17:26.21 | greycat | user404: well, you can look in /run/user/1000/ and see what it has |
| 17:26.21 | c-c | 5x the memory |
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| 17:26.34 | SerajewelKS | user404: so yes, it's temporary (the contents are lost when unmounted) |
| 17:26.34 | karlpinc | tMH: You're going to need swap. The xz compression of .deb files uses lots of ram to uncompress. |
| 17:26.52 | jelly | user404: the name does not suggest anything. It's a filesystem type backed by ram+swap, loses the contents on boot. It can be and is use for many purposes. |
| 17:27.14 | wakawako | If the ram is a limitation, try a lighter desktop enviroment |
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| 17:27.26 | no_gravity | greycat: About this: cd /src && tar cf - . | ssh user@host 'cd /dest && tar xf -' |
| 17:27.30 | greycat | He's not using a desktop environmen.t |
| 17:27.43 | no_gravity | greycat: That transfers *one* of the subdirectories and nothing else. Whats going on? |
| 17:27.44 | jelly | c-c: and CPU with about the same oomph as a P2 |
| 17:27.56 | tMH | c-c - ;)) |
| 17:28.03 | jelly | wait, "Strawberry Pi", wtf is that |
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| 17:28.04 | karlpinc | no_gravity: I like using -C with tar, and avoid the "cd"s. |
| 17:28.06 | tMH | c-c - it'll be next stuff:) |
| 17:28.31 | wakawako | once had a p3 powered pc, it only did it´s thing. |
| 17:28.37 | tMH | karlpinc - I hope I don't need no swap because I don't run nothing 'heavy' on that host, just upgrading some packages, and some programs from their sources:) |
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| 17:28.48 | user404 | SerajewelKS the problem is that, even when I restart my machine, this directory /run/user/1000/doc is created with timestamp as Dec 31 1969, permission 0500 and it's not possible to delete (it doesn't matter if I am root or regular user) |
| 17:29.05 | no_gravity | And in the subirectory it only transfers a few of the files. |
| 17:29.10 | no_gravity | That is super strange. |
| 17:29.13 | tMH | ok, I replaced 'wheezy' with 'jessie' in sources.list.. let me do it!;) |
| 17:29.18 | karlpinc | no_gravity: It transfers the current directory, the one cd-ed into. |
| 17:29.21 | *** join/#debian T_Other_1 (~TOther1@82-217-51-143.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 17:29.30 | karlpinc | tMH: You'll probably want to read the upgrade instructions. |
| 17:29.34 | jelly | tMH: don't do jsut that. Read the release notes first. |
| 17:29.39 | *** part/#debian T_Other_1 (~TOther1@82-217-51-143.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 17:29.40 | wakawako | can you change it with the time and date option in a settings meny? |
| 17:29.42 | jelly | dpkg, wheezy->jessie |
| 17:29.42 | dpkg | Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> http://deb.li/ldcj . In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "wheezy" to "jessie". apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade. 3rd party repos like <dmo> are known to cause problems with the upgrade. See also <jessie sysvinit>. |
| 17:30.01 | greycat | wheezy->jessie is one of the biggest upgrades in Debian history, because the init system changed |
| 17:30.28 | greycat | I mean "biggest" in the sense of most intrusive, most likely to have issues... not size of downloads or whatever |
| 17:30.29 | no_gravity | karlpinc: I wish it did that. |
| 17:30.33 | jelly | honestly apache 2.2 -> 2.4 was a lot more pain than sysvinit -> systemd there |
| 17:30.42 | karlpinc | tMH: Swap is always good, especially on low RAM machines. There's going to be stuff loaded into RAM that's rarely used. You want to use the RAM you've got. |
| 17:32.16 | wakawako | and the excess ram is being used as cache right? |
| 17:32.30 | greycat | there's not much "excess" when you only have 128 MB |
| 17:32.33 | greycat | but... in theory, yes |
| 17:32.42 | karlpinc | no_gravity: As I read it, you should wind up with a /dest/src/ directory with everything in the original /src/. |
| 17:33.12 | greycat | no_gravity: did you do something silly like suppressing stderr, so that you can't see whatever error messages accompany the files that can't be copied? |
| 17:33.28 | no_gravity | karlpinc, greycat: Sorry, i did a mistake! All is good. |
| 17:33.59 | karlpinc | no_gravity: If you're going to run that as root, you want a -p on the untar side also. |
| 17:34.21 | karlpinc | (Although now that I think of it, I think that's the default.) |
| 17:35.01 | wakawako | last time I tried using rkhunter and chkrootkit, it didn´t find what I wanted it to find although chkrootkit did detect a faulty package install that existed long before the incident. |
| 17:36.00 | *** join/#debian apt (ibot@c-174-52-60-165.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:36.00 | *** topic/#debian is Current Debian release is buster, 10.1 point release /msg dpkg 10.1; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.11 ; 9.11 needs dist-upgrade | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 17:36.02 | no_gravity | wakawako: exit |
| 17:36.03 | greycat | wakawako: if you used "su", then exit |
| 17:36.05 | wakawako | ok |
| 17:36.14 | wakawako | thank you |
| 17:36.16 | karlpinc | no_gravity: Preserves ownership et-al. (and yes, read the man page. If you are not comfortable, read "man less" so you can learn how to find just the parts of any man page you want to look at.) |
| 17:36.25 | no_gravity | karlpinc: Awesome, thanks! |
| 17:37.21 | no_gravity | Strange, that tar thing seems to go pretty slow ... |
| 17:37.48 | no_gravity | Or maybe not. |
| 17:37.50 | no_gravity | Not sure. |
| 17:37.53 | xormor | greycat: I got the SSH working with my neighbor. We tried it out and I turned it off. The setting I was looking for was called "Take into use Ipv6 from the WAN to the LAN". |
| 17:37.59 | greycat | I strongly recommend installing rsync everywhere. Then you can use rsync. |
| 17:38.00 | *** part/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@188.208.121.251) |
| 17:38.04 | karlpinc | no_gravity: Probably network is the resource limiting factor. |
| 17:38.15 | no_gravity | karlpinc: Yup |
| 17:38.16 | wakawako | is there a certain method to check file at the time to find something that you suspect snuck in? |
| 17:39.06 | xormor | what can you guys see about my computer and computing and Internet use from this channel? |
| 17:39.42 | karlpinc | xormor: Well, your tatoo is very interesting.... |
| 17:39.55 | xormor | karlpinc: I don't have a tattoo :-D |
| 17:39.57 | somiaj | xormor: might want to ask in #freenode, but we can see your ip, and a little bit of other personal info depending on how your client is configured. |
| 17:40.08 | xormor | somiaj: ok |
| 17:40.10 | mutante | xormor: i can guess you are Finnish |
| 17:40.10 | somiaj | #freenode can also talk about masks, and other ways to hide someof your info |
| 17:40.15 | xormor | mutante: yes. |
| 17:40.30 | greycat | he's already using a "cloak" |
| 17:40.42 | somiaj | ahh okay, yea a cloak can hide some stuff |
| 17:40.44 | mutante | xormor: that is because you use that word that Wikipedia tells me about |
| 17:40.53 | xormor | mutante: what word? |
| 17:40.59 | mutante | Väinämöinen |
| 17:41.04 | xormor | mutante: yes :-D |
| 17:41.20 | wakawako | what exactly is "/usr/lib/jvm/.java-1.11.0-openjdk-amd64.jinfo /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/PyQt5/uic/widget-plugins/.noinit" |
| 17:41.31 | mutante | xormor: that's basically all without being IRC server operator |
| 17:41.51 | *** join/#debian oish (~charlie@228.25.169.217.in-addr.arpa) |
| 17:42.47 | jelly | wakawako: those are file paths for some files that come with some packages. |
| 17:43.07 | wakawako | found it with chkrootkit |
| 17:43.17 | jelly | wakawako: dpkg -S /path/to/file ... will tell you which package, if any, ships it |
| 17:43.40 | greycat | or you could read those files and see what they contain, and then try to guess why chkrootkit gave you their names |
| 17:43.50 | mutante | xormor: well.. there is /ctcp userinfo and i tried but your client says nothing. we can see the name and version of your IRC client though |
| 17:44.02 | wakawako | seen it before |
| 17:44.15 | jelly | chkrootkit is a shell script that generates LOADS of false positives based on old heuristics |
| 17:44.22 | wakawako | greycat |
| 17:44.26 | jelly | "omg a dot file in /usr" |
| 17:44.39 | jelly | "could be malware" |
| 17:44.51 | greycat | yeah, the leading . in the filenames is the first thing I suspected |
| 17:46.33 | karlpinc | xormor: We can do the usual Internet probing of your IP. |
| 17:46.44 | c-c | wakawako: thats for some gui program |
| 17:47.19 | c-c | wakawako: it is some python program that uses QT lib on top of java JDK for the GUI Wingow |
| 17:47.32 | c-c | my guess is thats some KDE media player |
| 17:47.38 | jelly | c-c: those are two different, unrelated paths |
| 17:48.05 | karlpinc | wakawako: You can use debsums to check files that come with debian. |
| 17:48.06 | *** join/#debian p8m (~ident1@50-83-138-161.client.mchsi.com) |
| 17:48.09 | c-c | oo true |
| 17:48.27 | c-c | is actually using his tv as a monitor |
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| 17:50.36 | *** join/#debian zamuro (~Samantha@unaffiliated/zamuro) |
| 17:50.41 | c-c | wakawako: my guess is the first one is output from a crashed java JVM instance, and the latter some settings for a media player GUI |
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| 17:53.55 | wakawako | is debsums a reliable tool to find something important? |
| 17:54.06 | greycat | it only tells you whether a file from a package has been altered |
| 17:54.19 | greycat | it will not tell you anything else, like new files that "shouldn't" be there |
| 17:55.22 | wakawako | well that sounds like a false positive |
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| 17:58.37 | wakawako | at least it seems like the tool is doing something to check the files in the system |
| 17:59.46 | wakawako | is it safe to ssh to a machine you suspect had contact with something just to search it for suspicious activity? |
| 18:00.50 | jelly | wakawako: if you have X11Forwarding disabled and AgentForwaring disabled, ssh to that machine is safe, ssh from it someplace else, no |
| 18:01.16 | wakawako | how do I check that? |
| 18:01.32 | jelly | you explicitely disable them. |
| 18:01.50 | wakawako | not sure what that means really |
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| 18:02.24 | jelly | it means adding options for ssh to the command line that disable those (and any other forwarding) options |
| 18:02.27 | wakawako | as in "kill"/"xkill" *name of the program* |
| 18:02.30 | greycat | Look, obviously you don't trust this machine for whatever reason. You're spending a LOT of time agonizing over EVERYTHING. Just wipe it. |
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| 18:03.23 | jelly | if you don't trust the machine running chkrootkit or debsums or any other tool while booted in that same OS you can't trust is... unreliable and can't be trusted |
| 18:03.43 | greycat | chkrootkit is just a joke, anyway |
| 18:03.51 | wakawako | ok |
| 18:04.04 | wakawako | rkhunter? |
| 18:04.20 | jelly | they are roughly equivalent |
| 18:04.29 | wakawako | ok |
| 18:04.47 | jelly | one is older than the older, don't remember which |
| 18:04.49 | *** join/#debian xaeB5 (xaeB5@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/xaeb5) |
| 18:04.52 | jelly | than the other* |
| 18:05.02 | mason | wakawako: If you want to verify your system, you need an external boot mechanism and something like tripwire in addition to whatever analysis tools you want to include, generally. |
| 18:05.37 | xaeB5 | hi. i installed emacs and when i enter the command "emacs" in my terminal it opens a GUI application. what is this? isn't emacs a CLI program? |
| 18:05.52 | mason | xaeB5: emacs -nw |
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| 18:06.28 | jelly | wakawako: the only safe way to inspect this system is freeze it, if it's a VM, make a copy and inspect the disk contents after the disk copy is connected to machine you can actually trust |
| 18:06.44 | mason | xaeB5: Or instead, install emacs-nox, as an alternative. |
| 18:06.44 | xaeB5 | mason: oh ok thanks. i actually like the GUI, i was just wondering |
| 18:07.24 | mason | xaeB5: If you like the GUI, then keep the package you've got, and run with -nw (no window) when you want it in a terminal. Also look at things like emacsclient/gnuclient/etc. |
| 18:07.36 | herzlichweise | i always wondered what you do with tripwire when package updates come in |
| 18:07.40 | jelly | wakawako: if it's booted and you're sshed into it you technically can't trust any output or results of any command |
| 18:08.14 | xaeB5 | mason: thanks |
| 18:08.15 | mason | herzlichweise: You have to verify what's changed and save the new data. |
| 18:08.30 | herzlichweise | thats an immense amount of work |
| 18:08.43 | mason | herzlichweise: Security and convenience are generally mutually opposed to one another. |
| 18:08.48 | herzlichweise | yeah |
| 18:08.54 | jelly | herzlichweise: they don't "come in", you enable write access to the OS and update the db along with upgrades. apt hooks could automate most of it |
| 18:09.13 | mason | jelly: Are there apt hooks extant? |
| 18:09.17 | *** join/#debian disi (~tucked@2600:1700:22f0:37b0:a021:97a9:2c0e:7658) |
| 18:09.20 | mason | Or things that use them, rather? |
| 18:09.23 | jelly | yes |
| 18:09.29 | mason | Oh, neat. Didn't know. |
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| 18:11.44 | jelly | mason: deb format includes checksums for every file a package ships. Amusingly this checksum list is not mandatory. One example of hook usage is "debsums" tool, which looks if a just installed package has the appropriate md5sums control file or not, and generates one on the fly if it's not shipped |
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| 18:12.54 | herzlichweise | !tripwire |
| 18:12.54 | dpkg | Open Source Tripwire (packaged for Debian as tripwire) is a host-based intrusion detection system. It monitors a designated set of files, notifying the system administrator about corruption or tampering. http://tripwire.sf.net/ http://sf.net/projects/tripwire |
| 18:13.23 | herzlichweise | sourceforge *shudder* |
| 18:13.30 | mason | I'm not finding and canned hooks that work with tripwire as yet. Looking. |
| 18:13.37 | *** join/#debian yonder (~yonder@unaffiliated/yonder) |
| 18:13.40 | jelly | !aide |
| 18:13.40 | dpkg | AIDE (Advanced Intrusion Detection Environment) is an open source, host-based intrusion detection system, initially developed as a free <tripwire> replacement. http://aide.sf.net/ |
| 18:15.41 | wakawako | how to put tripwire into run mode |
| 18:15.42 | jelly | mason: oh there are no existing hooks for tripwire that I know of. |
| 18:15.50 | jelly | if tripwire even alive and packaged? |
| 18:15.54 | jelly | ,v tripwire |
| 18:15.55 | judd | Package: tripwire on amd64 -- jessie: 2.4.2.2-4; stretch: 2.4.3.1-2+b4; bullseye: 2.4.3.7-1+b10; buster: 2.4.3.7-1+b10; sid: 2.4.3.7-1+b10 |
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| 18:16.03 | jelly | huh |
| 18:16.08 | greycat | not-dead |
| 18:16.24 | tMH | greycat - are you guru into iptables stuff ? |
| 18:16.25 | jelly | both it and aide are horribly old |
| 18:16.29 | jelly | ,v aide |
| 18:16.30 | judd | Package: aide on amd64 -- jessie: 0.16~a2.git20130520-3; stretch: 0.16-1+b3; buster: 0.16.1-1; sid: 0.16.1-1+b1; experimental: 0.16.2-1 |
| 18:16.47 | mason | Might be a fun project. Or a useful one anyway. Question might be how to trust getting data off-box for an offline tripwire database, but then, if you fail to get updates off-box because of something malicious, that'll show up. |
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| 18:18.06 | herzlichweise | tMH: there is a dedicated channel ( #netfilter ) |
| 18:18.25 | jelly | mason: had worked on a project like that a while ago, with daily aide db updates, one way uploads of db to a secure remote location and a pretty diff frontend |
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| 18:19.25 | wakawako | is verbose what I want to choose if I want it to do a rough check? |
| 18:19.26 | jelly | it was very nice as a PoC but brittle |
| 18:19.28 | mason | jelly: Sounds reasonable. I once did a wrote-only remote client for back-ups once, which could be the basis for such a thing. |
| 18:19.56 | herzlichweise | !rkhunter |
| 18:19.56 | dpkg | Rootkit Hunter is a Unix-based tool that scans for rootkits, backdoors and local exploits. It does this by comparing MD5 hash of important files with known good ones in online database, searching for default directories (of rootkits), wrong permissions, hidden files, suspicious strings in kernel modules, and special tests for Linux and FreeBSD. See also <system compromise recovery>, <chkrootkit>, <tiger>. |
| 18:20.03 | mason | The system could emit things for the remote, but could never change what it had sent. |
| 18:20.26 | mason | herzlichweise: Beware false positives with these tools, also. |
| 18:20.33 | herzlichweise | yes :) |
| 18:20.35 | mason | wakawako: ^ sorry, meant that for you |
| 18:20.46 | jelly | mason: honestly you could integrate it with a backup client now, if the backup server is going to get all the data and checksum it for dedup purposes, it might as well accept a bit of metadata and warn you of unexpected changes |
| 18:21.24 | mason | jelly: Pushing the paranoia far enough, you'd not want to trust that the software sending back-ups can see everything on the server. |
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| 18:22.11 | mason | Booting off pristine media to scan while the system is not running its normal OS is better. But of course that assumes the firmware or IME or something isn't evil. |
| 18:22.11 | jelly | mason: so do backups of VM snapshots from the host :-) |
| 18:22.22 | mason | jelly: That'd be reasonable. |
| 18:22.23 | derfragemasterma | HWELPPPPP |
| 18:22.24 | derfragemasterma | HELPPPPPPPPPP |
| 18:22.34 | jelly | !ask |
| 18:22.35 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 18:22.40 | mason | derfragemasterma: A small brush might get whatever's stuck under your 'P' key. |
| 18:22.58 | derfragemasterma | I ahve NEW PC |
| 18:23.01 | derfragemasterma | AMD RYZEN 3900x |
| 18:23.05 | derfragemasterma | Can i install DEBIAN? |
| 18:23.23 | greycat | didn't you already ask this? |
| 18:23.30 | derfragemasterma | no |
| 18:23.31 | derfragemasterma | ! |
| 18:23.31 | towo` | sure you can, but you will not have much fun |
| 18:23.33 | jelly | derfragemasterma: you can probably install it, I'm less sure how well it's going to WORK |
| 18:23.41 | greycat | 10:30 derfragemasterma> AMD RYZEN 3900X |
| 18:23.42 | greycat | 14:23 derfragemasterma> AMD RYZEN 3900x |
| 18:23.59 | derfragemasterma | jelly is ubunti better ? |
| 18:24.05 | towo` | derfragemasterma, mit debian unstable sähe es schon besser aus |
| 18:24.10 | towo` | grr |
| 18:24.11 | jelly | derfragemasterma: try it and see. |
| 18:24.13 | asymptotically | umbongo? |
| 18:24.24 | derfragemasterma | towo unstable ? |
| 18:24.25 | towo` | derfragemasterma, with unstable it would look way better |
| 18:24.27 | derfragemasterma | towo ok welche DE? |
| 18:24.33 | derfragemasterma | towo ok, which DE? |
| 18:24.39 | wakawako | Shouldn´t debian run fine with most hardware out of the box though? |
| 18:24.40 | towo` | doesn't matter |
| 18:24.53 | wakawako | unless it involves a nvidia gpu |
| 18:24.59 | mason | wakawako: New hardware might be as-yet unsupported by the kernel Debian ships. |
| 18:25.10 | mason | wakawako: Example: https://techgage.com/article/amd-ryzen-7-3700x-ryzen-9-3900x-performance-in-linux/ |
| 18:25.11 | jelly | derfragemasterma: rule of thumb: if you want to run Linux, don't buy hardware that's been on the market less that 12 months. hw support is spotty for mew stuff. Especially new comsumer stuff. Servers are better. |
| 18:25.14 | wakawako | forgot that fact |
| 18:25.25 | derfragemasterma | ok thanks |
| 18:25.31 | derfragemasterma | Can i run it on my |
| 18:25.38 | derfragemasterma | Old e8400 pc ?or is too old? |
| 18:25.42 | derfragemasterma | With 4 GIG |
| 18:25.52 | mason | derfragemasterma: Web searches are really useful here. |
| 18:25.53 | jelly | that one will work |
| 18:25.58 | jelly | probably! |
| 18:26.03 | jelly | NO WARRANTY |
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| 18:26.13 | derfragemasterma | l |
| 18:26.16 | derfragemasterma | ok |
| 18:26.18 | jelly | !enter |
| 18:26.18 | dpkg | The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel. |
| 18:26.19 | derfragemasterma | but which de is good? |
| 18:26.25 | jelly | derfragemasterma: xfce |
| 18:26.46 | derfragemasterma | ok before i go to install |
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| 18:26.59 | derfragemasterma | xfceâ¦... good..... some other openions ? |
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| 18:27.05 | jelly | !polls |
| 18:27.06 | dpkg | "Does anyone have X or use Y?" is taking a poll, not asking a good question that IRC helpers can answer. Don't do it or sussudio's army of militant badgers will hurt you. Also see <ask> and <bad polls>. |
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| 18:27.08 | wakawako | any de is good as far as I know |
| 18:27.19 | jelly | except Gnome! |
| 18:27.20 | dvs | on 4GB? |
| 18:27.24 | derfragemasterma | yes |
| 18:27.24 | jelly | !start a DE war |
| 18:27.25 | dpkg | KDE blows! |
| 18:27.31 | dvs | grr! |
| 18:27.34 | derfragemasterma | except gnome``??? |
| 18:27.43 | greycat | Use whatever you like. |
| 18:28.15 | wakawako | imo gnome looks like it´s own thing rather than, well, modern windows 10 |
| 18:29.12 | derfragemasterma | wakawako dont you like GNOME 3? Shell? |
| 18:29.13 | wakawako | unity is pretty similar to it |
| 18:29.22 | h0n3ycl0ud | ewww GNOME shell |
| 18:29.44 | derfragemasterma | h0n3ycl0ud what is your fav DE? |
| 18:29.48 | wakawako | What I said about gnome was that it looked like something on it´s own, in a good way |
| 18:29.55 | h0n3ycl0ud | xfce cuz it only does what i ask it to |
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| 18:30.12 | h0n3ycl0ud | and also does everything i want it to |
| 18:30.31 | derfragemasterma | h0n3ycl0ud thanks. i often hear that XFCE is recommended |
| 18:30.32 | derfragemasterma | ! |
| 18:30.37 | wakawako | kde is quite the customizeable de by far |
| 18:30.54 | greycat | Everyone's opinion is different. Try the various interfaces, use the one you like. That's all. |
| 18:31.03 | derfragemasterma | I like: |
| 18:31.10 | derfragemasterma | GNOME Shell, xfce, Unity, mate |
| 18:31.13 | derfragemasterma | and KDE |
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| 18:31.25 | derfragemasterma | i really loved XFCE and MATE. |
| 18:31.34 | h0n3ycl0ud | i like MATE |
| 18:31.42 | wakawako | you can even make kde look like an entirely different OS with a few clicks |
| 18:31.47 | jelly | and each of those has a million themes and tunables |
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| 18:32.05 | derfragemasterma | hi rick |
| 18:32.07 | wakawako | a cool feature of kde |
| 18:32.24 | Guest15210 | hi |
| 18:32.29 | wakawako | hi |
| 18:33.00 | h0n3ycl0ud | <opinion>i don't want my GNU/Linux to look like another operating system </opinion |
| 18:33.01 | h0n3ycl0ud | > |
| 18:34.02 | wakawako | don´t worry, it´s not going to inherent the bad parts of something you switched from for a good reason |
| 18:34.28 | wakawako | etc security and privacy |
| 18:34.36 | h0n3ycl0ud | lol the betrayal of GNOME |
| 18:34.59 | wakawako | which one is the most private you recommend? |
| 18:35.24 | h0n3ycl0ud | there isn't really much of a privacy tradeoff |
| 18:36.09 | h0n3ycl0ud | if you use the debian netinstall disc you can install all of them and switch between them to see which you like best... |
| 18:36.32 | jelly | anything on wayland will have better security than anything on X |
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| 18:36.50 | xormor | My favorite is MATE, because I customize it. |
| 18:37.05 | wakawako | wayland is better than x? |
| 18:37.05 | h0n3ycl0ud | jelly: I thought this was a DE war |
| 18:37.10 | derfragemasterma | xormor thanks |
| 18:37.16 | derfragemasterma | xormor do you have Debian 10? stable? |
| 18:37.16 | wakawako | how do I swap? |
| 18:37.23 | h0n3ycl0ud | wakawako, on the login screen |
| 18:37.26 | xormor | derfragemasterma: yes, I do. |
| 18:37.35 | wakawako | interesting |
| 18:37.38 | greycat | h0n3ycl0ud: that only applies to gdm3 with gnome under buster |
| 18:37.45 | wakawako | but if I don´t have it present? |
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| 18:38.14 | h0n3ycl0ud | greycat, that doesn't answer the question though |
| 18:38.34 | derfragemasterma | COOL! :D |
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| 18:38.49 | wakawako | fun fact: in gnome the windows key more of a useage and in windows itself |
| 18:39.01 | trysten | hi team! i'm having wireless issues with my older rtl pci wireless card |
| 18:39.38 | wakawako | fun fact: in gnome the windows key gets more of a proper useage than in windows itself* |
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| 18:40.37 | h0n3ycl0ud | greycat, so how do you switch desktop environments if login managers no longer give you the option at login |
| 18:40.54 | greycat | h0n3ycl0ud: ... I never said 'no longer give you'. |
| 18:41.01 | trysten | it disconnects without cause. i'm wondering how to get some debug messages from the driver to see if there's something there |
| 18:41.09 | greycat | I said that your answer to the other person only works if the other person HAPPENS TO BE running gdm3 + gnome + buster. |
| 18:41.20 | jelly | wakawako: X11 has serious problems with any app basically being able to snoop of keyboard and mouse events of any other app, and probably also draw above other apps without user noticing |
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| 18:42.03 | jelly | wakawako: also, clipboard / selection are basically free for all |
| 18:42.04 | mason | stares suspiciously at his xterm. Is it watching me? |
| 18:42.13 | jelly | the answer is yes. |
| 18:42.17 | greycat | h0n3ycl0ud: I have no idea how one is supposed to "switch" to Wayland from any other window manager or desktop environment. The Debian wiki is not very forthcoming with details about it. |
| 18:42.28 | h0n3ycl0ud | greycat, I was talking about switching DE's |
| 18:42.34 | h0n3ycl0ud | not windowing systems |
| 18:42.42 | greycat | 14:37 wakawako> wayland is better than x? |
| 18:42.45 | greycat | 14:37 wakawako> how do I swap? |
| 18:42.52 | greycat | That's what you responded to. |
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| 18:43.41 | h0n3ycl0ud | greycat, apparently there were two threads of conversation |
| 18:43.51 | h0n3ycl0ud | my mistake |
| 18:44.37 | h0n3ycl0ud | <wakawako> which one is the most private you recommend? < referred to DE's |
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| 18:44.57 | greycat | wakawako has been all over the place for an hour or more |
| 18:45.02 | trysten | a regular ping seems doesn't eliminate the problem, so maybe I can rule out power-management. |
| 18:45.45 | h0n3ycl0ud | greycat, i've been wondering if they were a bot almost this whole time |
| 18:46.16 | h0n3ycl0ud | most people would notice someone responding to a question they asked of someone else... |
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| 18:56.18 | wakawako | Is a troublesome connection to your internet something you should be worried about? |
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| 19:05.17 | ruffni | is it possible my unattended upgrades hang due to some fixed packages? my machine spins up heavily lately and unattended-upgr is at 100% (time is not about an hour)... the logs give some warnings about held packages and being unable to mark some for upgrades. |
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| 19:15.14 | tom_work | How can I prevent a specific tmpfs mountpoint from being swapped? |
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| 19:21.59 | wakawako | how do you see if you have additional files you shouldn´t have? |
| 19:22.22 | greycat | You don't. You wipe the system. |
| 19:23.05 | mutante | i guess you would have to first make a list of them while you still know for sure it is clean |
| 19:23.14 | wakawako | that is the only solution? |
| 19:24.01 | JPT | Let's start slow: Debian packages bring a bunch of files with them, but that does not guarantee that all the ones that pop up during usage of those packages are not important, too. |
| 19:24.20 | JPT | Let's say you set up an apache2 with php. Your /var/www will be kind of empty at that point. |
| 19:24.42 | JPT | But after putting a lot of web stuff in there, you cannot just start deleting "superfluous" files without breaking those websites. |
| 19:24.42 | mutante | wakawako: i mean if you did not somehow save the clean state how would you know what is different in the "infected" state |
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| 19:27.04 | jhutchins_wk | wakawako: I'm pretty sure this was asked earlier but I missed it: Do you have some reason to believe your system has been hacked, or are you just doing an initial setup? |
| 19:28.52 | wakawako | it was previously in a hacked state but as of now I dunno if it can be affected by being connected to a router that too was in an infected state |
| 19:29.41 | wakawako | the only device I can confirm to be disinfected is my phone |
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| 19:30.52 | mutante | wakawako: if "previously in hacked state" then there is no other thing to do besides reinstalling |
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| 19:31.33 | mutante | that being said i think "infected by router" is highly unlikely |
| 19:31.36 | wakawako | and don´t know if I even want to try connect my phone to that router again since the situation is partially unknown for me |
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| 19:32.26 | jhutchins_wk | wakawako: What kind of router, and how did you determine that it was infected? |
| 19:33.27 | wakawako | I browsed with my phone connected to that router only to discover that someone had hijacked it without me knowing it |
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| 19:34.18 | mutante | wakawako: how did you discover it if you also did not know it? |
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| 19:35.07 | wakawako | first off, the phone was highly likely connected to the same router as the computer when it happened |
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| 19:36.08 | wakawako | second, the day after I used the phone it was as if someone knew what I had looked at. |
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| 19:36.24 | wakawako | at the device I used |
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| 19:36.47 | wakawako | had the router factory reseted as well |
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| 19:37.39 | wakawako | as of now I really can´t be sure if it solved something or opened up to another bad thing |
| 19:37.40 | tMH | heck, upgraded to jessie, and now I cannot get networking to work |
| 19:37.51 | tMH | removed 70*persistent*net.rules, no success. |
| 19:38.09 | jhutchins_wk | wakawako: Your phone stores that info. |
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| 19:38.51 | jhutchins_wk | wakawako: Your browser has a history of URLs visited and often saves images and other parts of the pages locally. |
| 19:39.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1544] by debhelper |
| 19:39.08 | tMH | I suppose it does not read /etc/network/interfaces... |
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| 19:39.19 | tMH | how can I force it to use this file ? |
| 19:39.22 | tMH | fscking systemd.. |
| 19:39.48 | jhutchins_wk | tMH: It will use that file by default, and settings there will override Network Manager. |
| 19:40.01 | greycat | Debian *does* read /etc/network/interfaces, in every release, in every init system. |
| 19:40.08 | jhutchins_wk | tMH: You're going to have to dig through dmesg and see why it's not loading. |
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| 19:40.30 | wakawako | jhutchins_wk You mean that´s why it fell victim to the attack as well? |
| 19:40.47 | tMH | greycat - I see systemctl status networking that everything - as it sees - OK, but it load OTHER files - not /etc/network/interfaces! |
| 19:40.59 | tMH | that has everything ok , I mean |
| 19:41.16 | tMH | how to switch networking.service to load /etc/network/interfaces instead ? |
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| 19:41.36 | tMH | I cannot paste it because I use KVM to switch to that host. |
| 19:41.46 | tMH | no copy&paste over KVM machines yet;) |
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| 19:42.08 | jhutchins_wk | wakawako: I mean there probably was no attack. |
| 19:42.28 | wakawako | as much as I wish it wasn´t |
| 19:42.37 | tMH | greycat - might be there is Networking manager messing all the stuff up ? how can I _DISABLE_ it without active network , tell me please ? |
| 19:42.51 | wakawako | I have experienced this thing first hand |
| 19:42.55 | jhutchins_wk | tMH: The network system reads that file, it doesn't run it. |
| 19:42.58 | greycat | 15:39 jhutchins_wk> tMH: It will use that file by default, and settings therewill override Network Manager. |
| 19:43.13 | tMH | jhutchins_wk - as I see messages in systemctl status network.service - it DOES NOT read /etc/network/interfaces. |
| 19:43.26 | tMH | greycat - it does not, I see empy - yes - raised ETH. |
| 19:43.26 | greycat | tMH: BASED ON WHAT EVIDENCE |
| 19:43.28 | tMH | eth0 |
| 19:43.35 | tMH | heck! |
| 19:43.38 | tMH | let me PHOTO this stuff! |
| 19:43.40 | tMH | to show ya; |
| 19:43.42 | tMH | ;) |
| 19:43.48 | SerajewelKS | !enter |
| 19:43.48 | dpkg | The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel. |
| 19:44.06 | jhutchins_wk | tMH: Actually, we have a few decades of experience with this, we know how it works and how it fails. |
| 19:44.33 | jhutchins_wk | tMH: Again, I suggest you look through dmesg (dmesg |less) and find out what's actually happening. |
| 19:46.23 | tMH | jhutchins_wk - https://i.imgur.com/Gqb840O.jpg |
| 19:46.27 | tMH | take a look at this, please. |
| 19:46.51 | tMH | as you see - no /etc/network/ mentioned AT ALL. |
| 19:46.59 | greycat | So what? |
| 19:48.41 | SerajewelKS | tMH: "systemctl status mariadb" isn't going to mention /etc/mysql/my.cnf either, but mysqld still loads it |
| 19:49.13 | JPT | You could start by checking the files mentioned in the output of your 'systemctl status networking'. It mentions /etc/init.d/networking, and also some drop-in files that might be a nice read. |
| 19:49.14 | greycat | It would be more useful to show the contents of /etc/network/interfaces and the output of "ip addr". |
| 19:49.22 | wakawako | Just to be sure, is it possible that during an install the OS can be infected while connected to an affected network? |
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| 19:49.52 | SerajewelKS | wakawako: it is impossible to prove that that _can't_ happen, so technically it is possible |
| 19:50.10 | wakawako | tell more about it |
| 19:50.14 | SerajewelKS | wakawako: this is a different question from "is it likely and/or is there a known vulnerability" |
| 19:51.10 | wakawako | in my case it´s about a vulnerability that is possibly unknown and that is what worries me |
| 19:51.12 | jhutchins_wk | tMH: https://paste.debian.net/1107083/ |
| 19:51.13 | greycat | wakawako: if you install from a KNOWN GOOD installer image, you should be safe. Package lists are signed, so if someone is trying to MITM your connection to the Debian servers, you'll just get failures instead of corrupted packages. |
| 19:51.45 | tMH | greycat - I'll show up /etc/network/interfaces and ip a output. |
| 19:51.48 | tMH | just wait |
| 19:51.57 | wakawako | what is MITM? |
| 19:52.11 | greycat | !mitm |
| 19:52.11 | dpkg | mitm is, like, monkey-in-the-middle, http://www.vandyke.com/solutions/ssh_overview/ssh_overview_threats.html |
| 19:52.27 | SerajewelKS | wakawako: technically all vulnerabilities are unknown until they are discovered so the odds of there being a vulneralibity are non-zero. however i'm not aware of any such vulnerability, and the likelihood of there being one considering that package lists are verified by the GPG key present in the installer image means that the odds of this happening are very low. |
| 19:52.27 | greycat | Man In The Middle, usually... never heard Monkey before. |
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| 19:53.13 | SerajewelKS | wakawako: this is why asking "is it possible there is a vulnerability" is a bad question. the answer will always be "yes." |
| 19:54.01 | wakawako | what concerns me is that what happened to me involves someone who most likely has experience with linux and it´s a blackhat |
| 19:54.51 | wakawako | the haunting thing about this is that the source where it came from isn´t that easy to find again |
| 19:55.14 | jhutchins_wk | wakawako: ... and you are a valuable strategic target worth expending valuable man-hours on why? |
| 19:55.21 | SerajewelKS | if you don't trust your router i would trash it and get another, preferably one with a better reputation for security |
| 19:55.29 | tMH | jhutchins_wk - nice one.. no reading /etc/network/interfaces on that paste... |
| 19:55.38 | tMH | ok, let me show screenshots I made. |
| 19:55.38 | wakawako | it´s a comhem router |
| 19:55.40 | SerajewelKS | assuming that the router was compromised, which your description sounds like it was at one point |
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| 19:56.26 | jhutchins_wk | tMH: We don't need screenshots. YOU need to read the output of dmesg and look at the lines where it's loading the network devices and configuring the network (or not). |
| 19:56.52 | tMH | jhutchins_wk - https://imgur.com/a/yzBWsAB |
| 19:57.10 | jhutchins_wk | tMH: You can always capture the output of a command, put it on a flash drive, and upload it from there. |
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| 19:57.20 | wakawako | well it gets worse, I brought the laptop when it was infected to another network which makes me question how easy this is to repair the damage at |
| 19:57.23 | greycat | dpkg, no, mitm is <reply>A Man-In-The-Middle attack is when someone intercepts and modifies your communications. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-in-the-middle_attack> SSH avoids this by storing host keys. Debian package lists are signed. <https://wiki.debian.org/SecureApt> |
| 19:57.24 | dpkg | greycat: okay |
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| 19:57.28 | tMH | jhutchins_wk - I did dmesg -t | grep eth - it said everhthing is ok, mac adress etc. |
| 19:57.33 | tMH | -T even |
| 19:58.02 | tMH | jhutchins_wk - I doubt usb will run on this oldie host... but I'll try:) |
| 19:58.10 | JPT | tMH: Perhaps you're missing an `auto eth0`. Everything else looks fine. |
| 19:58.11 | SerajewelKS | is it possible that ifupdown isn't even installed? |
| 19:58.28 | JPT | Try 'ifup eth0' and see if that does it. |
| 19:58.34 | greycat | JPT: I get a "please sign in" page. Did he really not show the /e/n/i contents? |
| 19:58.54 | JPT | The contents were fine, but i was annoyed about the 'adult' tag, too |
| 19:58.55 | SerajewelKS | greycat: works here, but i am signed in to imgur |
| 19:59.07 | SerajewelKS | oh he flagged it NSFW!? |
| 19:59.12 | JPT | Yup |
| 19:59.33 | wakawako | and as I suspect there might been other devices connected to the same router where it happened a while later |
| 20:00.19 | jhutchins_wk | wakawako: If you're really concerned about the router you should probably contact comhem. |
| 20:00.49 | jhutchins_wk | wakawako: If you were actually compromised, it's likely you visited a web page with a blind trojan on it. |
| 20:00.55 | wakawako | already done and got it reset then reconfigured |
| 20:01.05 | wakawako | that is the case |
| 20:01.31 | jhutchins_wk | wakawako: The _only_ way to recover is to completely wipe the disk and do a clean install, because there's no way to tell _everything_ that they might have done. |
| 20:01.53 | wakawako | only I don´t fully know what it contained when I entered it |
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| 20:02.46 | wakawako | it began with the browser then occasional stutters and the second device affected |
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| 20:03.44 | jhutchins_wk | wakawako: That could just be hardware trouble. |
| 20:04.14 | wakawako | it wasn´t hardware |
| 20:04.28 | wakawako | related |
| 20:04.37 | jhutchins_wk | wakawako: Use tools like top and ps axu to determine what's running, track down everything that is and what it does. |
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| 20:07.36 | tMH | jhutchins_wk - so - what exactly output should I paste ? dmesg -T , cat /etc/networking/interfaces, systemctl status networking ? or what else ? |
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| 20:08.57 | wakawako | was going to say that now we are getting somewhere but then I get disconnected for a weird reason |
| 20:09.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1536] by debhelper |
| 20:09.02 | ruffni | is it possible to stop unattended upgrades? |
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| 20:10.13 | wakawako | how do you find all folders with . at the beginning? |
| 20:10.48 | ruffni | find | grep -e '/\.' ? |
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| 20:10.55 | ruffni | without the questionmark at the end |
| 20:11.08 | greycat | find . -type d -name '.*' ! -name . |
| 20:11.19 | wakawako | which one? |
| 20:11.29 | greycat | Try the both and see. |
| 20:12.41 | wakawako | the first one did an even better job |
| 20:13.12 | wakawako | thanks ruffni |
| 20:13.24 | greycat | ruffni's answer doesn't match the question you asked. So apparently you didn't ask what you actually wanted. |
| 20:13.28 | tMH | jhutchins_wk - https://justpaste.it/31g1u |
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| 20:13.44 | ruffni | true |
| 20:13.49 | tMH | :Q |
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| 20:14.34 | tMH | JPT - btw, auto eth0 did not help - I suppose the problem is somewhere else... |
| 20:14.34 | wakawako | the command found many more folders with . at the beginning |
| 20:14.58 | tMH | JPT - that fscking system won't load /etc/network/interfaces, as it shown in paste... |
| 20:14.59 | wakawako | mostly cache related |
| 20:15.00 | greycat | ruffni's command show you "foo/.bar/file1" "foo/.bar/file2" and so on |
| 20:15.01 | tMH | systemd even |
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| 20:15.13 | greycat | mine only shows you "foo/.bar" |
| 20:15.16 | JPT | tMH: Did 'ifup eth0' return any valuable output? |
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| 20:15.29 | tMH | JPT - I do not have ifup/ifdown at all.. |
| 20:15.38 | wakawako | for me it showed |
| 20:15.41 | tMH | but I have ifconfig, if what;) |
| 20:15.49 | tMH | ah.. forgot about "ip a". |
| 20:15.52 | tMH | just a minute. |
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| 20:17.29 | JPT | I'm a little irritated now - wasn't ifup/ifdown mandatory for using /etc/network/interfaces? At least on Debian jessie (Debian 8, right?) |
| 20:21.10 | tMH | jhutchins_wk - https://justpaste.it/31g1u |
| 20:21.15 | tMH | updated the paste. |
| 20:21.19 | tMH | greycat - any ideas ? |
| 20:21.19 | wakawako | ./.cache with mesa_shader_cache containments, .config with containment, .profile, .bash_history, .gnupg with containments and .bashrc |
| 20:21.47 | wakawako | the second found just three of all of these |
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| 20:22.53 | wakawako | only had plasma available |
| 20:23.03 | tMH | ok, is it possible to enable eth0 temporarily with dhcp option ? |
| 20:23.07 | tMH | from console ? |
| 20:23.10 | tMH | my ifconfig ? |
| 20:23.33 | tMH | I'll try to install ifup/ifdown.. |
| 20:23.43 | wakawako | are you look after using macchanger? |
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| 20:25.10 | mutante | tMH: you want to get info from DHCP server? dhclient eth0 ? |
| 20:27.03 | tMH | mutante - I want to enable networking temporarily - with dhcp. |
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| 20:27.57 | mutante | tMH: dhclient should do that and temporarily set what it gets from the server |
| 20:28.04 | mutante | until something else changes it again |
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| 20:28.19 | tMH | mutante - dhcpclient eth0 worked NICE! thank you!:) |
| 20:28.30 | tMH | (tho I never used to run dhcp on my pcs) |
| 20:28.31 | mutante | ah, cool. yw |
| 20:29.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1529] by debhelper |
| 20:29.21 | tMH | ha! no packages ifup / ifdown found! |
| 20:29.39 | tMH | Unable to locale package ifup / ifdown. |
| 20:30.33 | SerajewelKS | tMH: it's called ifupdown |
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| 20:31.31 | tMH | SerajewelKS - yes, installing it |
| 20:31.34 | tMH | SerajewelKS - 10x anyway:) |
| 20:31.43 | wakawako | those folders I mentioned I found with the first command, are those really every . folder? |
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| 20:32.11 | mutante | wakawako: that is unknown |
| 20:32.16 | wakawako | ok |
| 20:32.42 | tMH | so, ppl, how can I fix this stuff ? OK, I assume that systemctl _reads_ /etc/network/interfaces, but it does not run it! |
| 20:34.05 | wakawako | what is there besides systemd you can use? |
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| 20:34.31 | genright | tMH: that is a bad assumption, systemd has its own network managment instead for the latest versions |
| 20:34.57 | JPT | tMH: After installing ifupdown, i assume that restarting your network/networking service should just start working. |
| 20:35.09 | tMH | genright - ok, you mean I should forget about /etc/networking/interfaces and switch new-cool-bells'n'whistles-systemd-stuff ? |
| 20:35.12 | genright | https://wiki.debian.org/SystemdNetworkd |
| 20:35.14 | tMH | to new.. |
| 20:35.30 | tMH | oh, no |
| 20:35.39 | tMH | FUCK it, xcz me my french |
| 20:35.42 | mutante | tMH: maybe /etc/init.d/networking restart |
| 20:35.43 | JPT | If you feel like it, you can switch to systemd-networkd. It has its own set of weirdness, but will work just as good as the traditional stuff. |
| 20:35.44 | tMH | again - 2450981345 lines for _one_ service. |
| 20:36.06 | tMH | JPT - I would not, because system thrown away KISS principle |
| 20:36.11 | tMH | system |
| 20:36.11 | tMH | d |
| 20:36.27 | tMH | and yes, I'll try to restart networking with installed ifup/ifdown |
| 20:36.30 | JPT | I've migrated a ton of machines at work to systemd-networkd, and they're all running fine. |
| 20:36.56 | tMH | JPT - you were right!;)) |
| 20:37.07 | tMH | ifup/ifdown worked as you said! |
| 20:37.11 | JPT | Awesome :) |
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| 20:37.20 | SerajewelKS | tMH: "I assume that systemctl _reads_ /etc/network/interfaces" <-- no, systemd will run the service that ifupdown provides, and ifup will read the file |
| 20:37.22 | tMH | let me reboot the host to get rid of that dhcp address (to make all stuff clean, also) |
| 20:37.56 | SerajewelKS | also you don't "run" /etc/network/interfaces any more than you "run" any other config file |
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| 20:38.11 | SerajewelKS | it is not a script, it is a set of declarations |
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| 20:39.05 | tMH | JPT - about systemd - I mean - we have had crontab entry with _two_ string in it - comment and rule to run something by specified time period(s), now - as I see - I'll have to write tens of strings to do the same - in systemd! |
| 20:39.35 | tMH | KISS stuff is gone! |
| 20:39.42 | tMH | [KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID] |
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| 20:40.09 | JPT | I have to admit that i did not try systemd timers yet. And systemd has a different way to approach things, too - sure. |
| 20:40.24 | JPT | But once you dig into the manpages a bit, you can still get it to work. |
| 20:41.07 | SerajewelKS | systemd timers have several advantages such as the ability to see when a timer last ran, when it will run next, whether or not it is currently running, etc. of course these features could possibly just be added to cron. |
| 20:41.07 | mutante | tMH: isnt this more readable than classic cron though? https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Systemd/Timers#Examples |
| 20:41.08 | JPT | And at least for service units vs good ol' init scripts: With systemd, you can write a service for whatever program/script you wrote and it just works. |
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| 20:41.15 | wakawako | is there any alternatives to systemd? |
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| 20:41.23 | SerajewelKS | wakawako: many |
| 20:41.26 | JPT | With the old init system, you had to take a skeleton shell script and carve shell code to make your stuff work. |
| 20:41.30 | tMH | mutante - it is _complicated_. |
| 20:41.42 | JPT | So in that regard, systemd simplifies a lot of things for me. |
| 20:42.01 | wakawako | what is the rest of the alternatives for it? |
| 20:42.21 | mutante | tMH: i am not sure it isn't just that you are used to cron so it seems easy to you because you did it many times before. but otherwise i agree with KISS |
| 20:43.46 | SerajewelKS | wakawako: there's sysvinit and upstart, for example |
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| 20:44.05 | wakawako | how good are those? |
| 20:44.21 | JPT | That depends on your requirements and preferences. :) |
| 20:44.33 | wakawako | safety |
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| 20:44.44 | SerajewelKS | wakawako: sysvinit is what was widely in use before systemd |
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| 20:48.38 | tMH | btw... I loved old eth0, eth1 scheme since the ages.. why system started to use enp* names instead, can someone tell me ? |
| 20:48.51 | tMH | heck.. systemd started, either |
| 20:49.15 | dvs | tMH, this change was made in the kernel to have persistent naming with multiple interfaces. |
| 20:50.10 | JPT | You can always write udev rules to name your interfaces based on their mac address. That's something that can help you out when you're building a big router and you're not planning to hot-swap nics. |
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| 20:51.03 | wakawako | what does a trojan horse usually contain? |
| 20:51.17 | dvs | ??? |
| 20:51.19 | mason | tMH: Easy enough to change it back. Pass the kernel "net.ifnames=0" |
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| 20:52.07 | tds | dvs: I thought the change was in systemd/udev, rather than the kernel? |
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| 20:53.20 | c0rnelius | you can also just edit --> /etc/udev/rules.d/80-net-setup-link.rules |
| 20:54.02 | JPT | wakawako: It's a program (any program, really) which contains code that connects to an attackers machine or allows inbound connections from an attacker, who can then remotely control that programs behaviour. |
| 20:54.48 | mason | c0rnelius: That seems easier to you? :P |
| 20:55.02 | dvs | tds, go figure: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/ |
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| 20:56.22 | c0rnelius | well when it comes to wlan, yes... I've never bothered fiddling with eth. |
| 20:56.25 | tMH | mason - yeah.. I removed 70.*persistent* - as always did:) |
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| 20:58.26 | wakawako | I have an idea, can I make an usb stick with the software I want to use to become a read only unit? |
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| 20:58.45 | JPT | Sure. Just like a linux live cd, basically. |
| 20:59.05 | c0rnelius | yeah mount it read only :) |
| 20:59.34 | JPT | Perhaps use a file image to mount as /, so you can checksum it to make sure it's still unchanged. |
| 20:59.36 | wakawako | If I know how tripwire works fully, I might try it |
| 21:01.17 | dka | Can this https://www.inmac-wstore.com/lenovo-thinkpad-fibocom-l850-gl-cat9-wwan-modem-cellulaire-sans-fil-4g-lte/p7163853.htm work on Debian ? |
| 21:01.34 | SerajewelKS | tMH: that wasn't a systemd change, it was a kernel change. it wasn't uncommon to have interface names seemingly randomly flipped on a reboot if multiple network devices raced to initialize and were initialized in a different order. |
| 21:01.53 | SerajewelKS | tMH: the new naming scheme ensures that once you know the name for a specific interface, it _will not_ change (absent hardware changes) |
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| 21:02.17 | [sr] | howdy |
| 21:02.31 | [sr] | small kind of offtopic/but related |
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| 21:04.21 | tMH | SerajewelKS: gotcha |
| 21:04.37 | tMH | I wonder... I have installed jessie version, and there is 3.16 kernel.. |
| 21:05.07 | tMH | are there kernels greater than 3 series available for this _old_ PC - pentium II?;) |
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| 21:08.38 | c0rnelius | SerajewelKS: Yes but it also means if you change the hardware it's not just going to work because the naming scheme has changed. |
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| 21:09.37 | c0rnelius | i have no problem with the naming scheme biz, but when it comes to something like an SBC is can for sure be annoying, especially in the wifi department |
| 21:09.48 | c0rnelius | it* |
| 21:10.59 | SerajewelKS | c0rnelius: that could very well have been the case already. if you had eth0 and eth1 and the names were stable and you replace eth0, there were three options: (1) the new card is called eth0 and everything works, (2) the old eth1 is now called eth0 and the new card is eth1, which means the configs get swapped, or (3) the new card is called eth2 and you have to adjust the config anyway. |
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| 21:11.49 | SerajewelKS | c0rnelius: at least now we _know_ it will be either outcome 1 or 3, usually 3 |
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| 21:12.18 | c0rnelius | i've heard peps use this argument before and I've never seen that happen in the wild. Not saying it hasn't! I've just never seen it. |
| 21:12.36 | SerajewelKS | i've seen all three outcomes at various times |
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| 21:13.01 | SerajewelKS | the new scheme at least eliminates the _most undesirable_ one |
| 21:13.06 | c0rnelius | plus you can write a simple bash script to bring up what, when and where if you like, |
| 21:13.39 | SerajewelKS | i've always expected to have to tweak network config when replacing network hardware, on _any_ operating system |
| 21:14.01 | c0rnelius | to a degree i'm sure |
| 21:14.07 | c0rnelius | not gonna argue that |
| 21:14.11 | wakawako | tripwire requires a catchphrase and I don´t have any |
| 21:14.24 | SerajewelKS | at least now replacing hardware won't cause one of your _other_ interfaces to suddenly change its name |
| 21:14.38 | c0rnelius | true |
| 21:15.23 | SerajewelKS | i've seen a lot of complaints about the new system that mostly amount to "i can't assume my network interface is called eth0 anymore" which, to be honest, you never _could_ safely assume that... it just _usually_ worked |
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| 21:15.55 | SerajewelKS | and for desktop systems that use network-manager, it will use whatever is available without regard for its name |
| 21:16.11 | SerajewelKS | for server systems, i _like_ having stable interface names :) |
| 21:16.14 | c0rnelius | and network-manager is horrid :) |
| 21:16.16 | pixel19 | please somebody explain why in my sources.list i have deb https://deb.debian.org/debian buster main and when update apt presents http://cdn-fastly.deb.debian.org/debian experimental InRelease |
| 21:16.37 | SerajewelKS | network-manager is horrid for servers. for desktop users who want their wired/wireless network to work, it's not awful. |
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| 21:17.19 | c0rnelius | i tend to stay away from it in general. plan.io is even worse but I'd still rather use that on my buildbox than network-manager |
| 21:17.24 | SerajewelKS | pixel19: because deb.debian.org is returning a redirect to cdn-fastly.deb.debian.org |
| 21:17.25 | xaeB5 | do i need to install something in debian to view plaintext files written in markdown as html/or other formats? |
| 21:17.59 | SerajewelKS | xaeB5: yes |
| 21:18.13 | wakawako | doesn´t notepad work? |
| 21:18.19 | xaeB5 | SerajewelKS: what do i need? |
| 21:18.26 | pixel19 | Are the servers updating packages? |
| 21:18.28 | SerajewelKS | xaeB5: that depends on your goal |
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| 21:18.43 | SerajewelKS | pixel19: i have no idea what that question means |
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| 21:19.08 | xaeB5 | SerajewelKS: to view the interpreted markdown , like in html in my browser or pdf, etc. |
| 21:19.12 | SerajewelKS | xaeB5: if you're looking for a markdown editor with live preview, that's one thing. if you just want to convert a markdown document to HTML for publication, that's something else. |
| 21:19.41 | xaeB5 | SerajewelKS: i'd like to do both |
| 21:19.45 | SerajewelKS | xaeB5: but in general "apt-cache search markdown" will give you a list of packages that are related to markdown |
| 21:20.05 | xaeB5 | i did that and there are a hundred different things |
| 21:20.06 | c0rnelius | pixel19: you could also just use http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ |
| 21:20.30 | SerajewelKS | c0rnelius: httpredir is discontinued |
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| 21:20.34 | xaeB5 | SerajewelKS: can you name one of those markdown editor with previews? |
| 21:20.36 | SerajewelKS | deb.debian.org is the replacement |
| 21:20.37 | c0rnelius | really? |
| 21:20.44 | c0rnelius | why does it still work? |
| 21:20.47 | SerajewelKS | c0rnelius: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianGeoMirror |
| 21:20.58 | c0rnelius | i'll check it |
| 21:21.05 | SerajewelKS | c0rnelius: because presumably the maintainers didn't just say "fuck it let's break everyone who uses this as their mirror" |
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| 21:21.18 | pixel19 | SerajewelKS: perhaps if i change the mirrors for the sources... a moment. |
| 21:21.25 | c0rnelius | gotcha. nice to know. |
| 21:21.31 | SerajewelKS | pixel19: i still don't even understand your question |
| 21:21.39 | SerajewelKS | pixel19: changing mirrors may or may not be the answer |
| 21:22.04 | ztychr | I'm trying to add PPA's to my sources by add-apt-repository. I'm doing it fine in ubuntu, but in debian I get gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found. |
| 21:22.47 | SerajewelKS | c0rnelius: both deb.debian.org and httpredir.debian.org are CNAMEs to the same thing, so when they discontinued httpredir they put in place a DNS record to move everyone on that transparently to deb.debian.org |
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| 21:23.01 | SerajewelKS | c0rnelius: but of course it could go away at any time, so we shouldn't tell people to use it, even if it's equivalent right now |
| 21:23.03 | ztychr | Is this because the PPA's Im trying to add are made specifically for ubuntu libraries? |
| 21:23.14 | SerajewelKS | !ppa |
| 21:23.14 | dpkg | [ppa] Personal Package Archive (see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas or <launchpad>). PPAs are either: (a) an easy way to grab packages based on nightly-builds/VCS snapshots or (b) an easy way for any idiot to publish a package of extremely poor quality (remember, you will run the maintainer scripts as root during install!). Choose your repos wisely. No equivalent exists for Debian yet. Ask me about <why not use a ppa>. |
| 21:23.19 | wakawako | how do I make a catchphrase for tripwire to let me continue? |
| 21:23.20 | SerajewelKS | ztychr: ^ |
| 21:23.50 | SerajewelKS | ztychr: tl;dr: don't use ubuntu PPAs on debian |
| 21:23.57 | annadane | ztychr, https://wiki.debian.org/CreatePackageFromPPA |
| 21:24.13 | c0rnelius | i had no idea it was discontinued. guess i never got the memo. |
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| 21:24.37 | SerajewelKS | c0rnelius: i didn't until recently, either |
| 21:24.57 | ztychr | Thanks. |
| 21:25.17 | SerajewelKS | c0rnelius: the new service is provided by both AWS cloudfront and fastly, and presumably the primary mirror redirects you to whichever one is closer to you |
| 21:25.42 | c0rnelius | gotcha |
| 21:25.44 | SerajewelKS | c0rnelius: i've noticed that all of my AWS servers get redirected to cloudfront as i would expect, which is nice... they basically get served packages over the LAN |
| 21:26.07 | xaeB5 | so anyone know of a markdown editor with live preview in debian |
| 21:26.33 | c0rnelius | well now I have to go through everything and make sure it's straight :/ |
| 21:26.36 | SerajewelKS | xaeB5: "apt-cache search markdown | grep -i editor" lists some options |
| 21:26.48 | c0rnelius | sob |
| 21:26.58 | xaeB5 | SerajewelKS: have you actually used any? |
| 21:27.15 | SerajewelKS | c0rnelius: looks like this happened in 2017: https://lists.debian.org/debian-mirrors/2017/02/msg00000.html |
| 21:27.38 | SerajewelKS | xaeB5: no, but you can try those and pick whichever one you like |
| 21:27.45 | xaeB5 | ok |
| 21:28.02 | SerajewelKS | it's not like you're choosing a mortgage company here, you can uninstall one if you don't like it |
| 21:28.32 | c0rnelius | i see. Well luckily for me I don't use debian on everything, but I will have to be cat'ing some things for a look see. |
| 21:29.05 | c0rnelius | i guess this applies to arm and whatnot as well? |
| 21:29.09 | c0rnelius | hmm |
| 21:29.59 | c0rnelius | shit ha |
| 21:30.33 | SerajewelKS | c0rnelius: i think it's pretty safe to say that they aren't going to remove the redirect any time soon |
| 21:30.47 | SerajewelKS | c0rnelius: if they did it would probably be after like the next 2-3 releases |
| 21:30.56 | SerajewelKS | it's not like keeping a CNAME record around is a huge burden |
| 21:31.09 | c0rnelius | kool |
| 21:32.23 | SerajewelKS | c0rnelius: i'd definitely switch existing systems but not urgently |
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| 21:35.15 | Sora | hi |
| 21:35.23 | wakawako | hi |
| 21:35.29 | Sora | how do i make encrypted partitions in the installer with luks that don't use the entire disk in 1 giant partition? |
| 21:35.30 | Sora | without lvm |
| 21:36.06 | wakawako | isn´t there anything in the repo for that? |
| 21:36.15 | Sora | in the installer? no |
| 21:36.22 | Sora | it just makes 1 partition |
| 21:36.25 | Sora | for the entire drive |
| 21:36.33 | wakawako | what desktop environment? |
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| 21:36.39 | Sora | debian |
| 21:36.40 | Sora | installer |
| 21:36.50 | wakawako | no not the distro |
| 21:37.22 | Sora | what are you asking |
| 21:37.23 | wakawako | de is etc gnome, xfce, kde,mate or other |
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| 21:37.33 | Sora | ??? |
| 21:37.35 | Sora | installer |
| 21:37.47 | Sora | this has no desktop |
| 21:38.04 | *** join/#debian YesMan (Rubafix@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/rubafix) |
| 21:38.08 | wakawako | is it all a terminal? |
| 21:40.04 | *** join/#debian dodo__ (~uniqdom@ip-45-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl) |
| 21:40.37 | Sora | is wakawako a troll |
| 21:41.04 | Sora | it is the installer of debian |
| 21:41.10 | Sora | terminal install, yes |
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| 21:46.43 | Sora | ok I figured it out |
| 21:46.45 | Sora | nvm |
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| 21:48.50 | wakawako | how did you do? |
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| 21:52.28 | wakawako | how do I change terminal text color for root? |
| 21:53.28 | *** join/#debian Burek (~Burek@unaffiliated/burekzfinezt) |
| 21:54.56 | somiaj | wakawako: depends on the terminal, what terminal do you use? |
| 21:55.09 | somiaj | wakawako: also for root, do you want to launch a root terminal, or do you want the color to change if you 'su -' to root? |
| 21:55.11 | wakawako | in this case, konsole |
| 21:55.25 | wakawako | the second one |
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| 21:56.15 | pixel19 | please, someone may tell me what is wrong with my sources.list? https://paste.debian.net/1107384/ |
| 21:56.18 | somiaj | That one I don't know is possible, but you could launch a root terminal with a different color, using -fg and -bg flags |
| 21:56.45 | somiaj | pixel19: why do you think something is wrong with it? |
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| 21:57.49 | th3jam3sd3an | waka, root has its own .bashrc if you want to tweak that. Not sure if that is a good way to do it, someone correct me if I am wrong... |
| 21:58.37 | wakawako | change the color for root from being the same as the rest to something else to separate it |
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| 21:59.25 | pixel19 | somiaj: is this pastebin the response expected for normal? https://paste.debian.net/1107395/ |
| 21:59.27 | somiaj | wakawako: Most just change the prompt, PS1, and with escape sequences you can add color. |
| 21:59.49 | th3jam3sd3an | that is what I do basically |
| 22:00.11 | wakawako | explain more in detail |
| 22:00.19 | somiaj | pixel19: corret, there is no errors in that output, it is informing you everything was downloaded. |
| 22:00.51 | somiaj | pixel19: the one error I see, is do you have any files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/, because I'm seeing an experimentail source, which you do not want to include in buster. |
| 22:01.27 | somiaj | wakawako: you can set the PS1 variable which controls the prompt in roots .bashrc or .profile, and this can have color or just a noticable difference. |
| 22:01.31 | pixel19 | somiaj: hum.. dont remember to see cdn-aws before.. |
| 22:01.52 | somiaj | wakawako: https://www.howtogeek.com/307701/how-to-customize-and-colorize-your-bash-prompt/ -- this might help |
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| 22:02.26 | somiaj | wakawako: but you can play around with setting PS1 until you find a prompt you like to distniguish a root prompt from a user prompt |
| 22:02.37 | wakawako | ok |
| 22:02.40 | somiaj | pixel19: it seems you have an additional file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ providing you sources you do not want |
| 22:02.43 | wakawako | thanks |
| 22:03.24 | th3jam3sd3an | damn, beat me to it lol |
| 22:05.31 | pixel19 | somiaj: You are right.. |
| 22:06.15 | somiaj | pixel19: just remove that file, you don't want experimential sources in stable |
| 22:06.57 | pixel19 | somiaj: removed |
| 22:07.10 | pixel19 | somiaj: tnks |
| 22:08.52 | annadane | if i wanted to perpetually use the kernel from backports would i apt install -t buster-backports linux-image-amd64? |
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| 22:09.17 | annadane | though i guess linux-image-5.02 or whatever would also work because afaik there's only ever one kernel in backports |
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| 22:13.11 | annadane | bonus question: if i have multiple kernels, then kernels will appear in apt autoremove, if i apt-mark hold them they won't be removed via apt autoremove, but that also prevents updates (like security updates) to them, no? |
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| 22:16.01 | themill | annadane: they are never going to get security updates |
| 22:16.19 | themill | (the newer packages you have installed *are* the security updates) |
| 22:16.29 | annadane | right |
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| 22:29.21 | somiaj | annadane: you can also just apt-mark manual packagename -- making the kernels marked as manual will remove them from autoremove |
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| 22:29.46 | annadane | oh yeah, right. |
| 22:29.54 | somiaj | annadane: another solution is edit the autoremove hook for kernels and have it keep more than 2 kernels (you can adjust the settings to say keep the last 5 kernels), then the ones that are getting autoremoved are a bit older. |
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| 22:32.22 | annadane | does it matter whether it's linux-image-amd64 or linux-image-version-number though? |
| 22:32.39 | annadane | i guess it only does if it's an LTS kernel |
| 22:32.54 | somiaj | yes, linux-image-amd64 is the manually installed metapackage that pulls in new kernels |
| 22:33.25 | somiaj | linux-image-version are the actual kernels that are auto packages held in by the meta package linux-image-amd64, so mark the actual kernel image as manual if that is the approach you wish to take |
| 22:34.08 | somiaj | as linux-image-amd64 gets updated, it changes which package it depends on, thus turning a kernel form a depends that is required, to no longer required (so it can be autoremoved). |
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| 22:35.58 | annadane | actually no LTS kernels wouldn't be in backports anyway |
| 22:36.03 | jetscreamer | debian is perfect! it must be pebkac! |
| 22:36.34 | annadane | i think i may just end up compiling my own |
| 22:36.53 | jetscreamer | (stock #debian answer when someone doesn't have a clue) |
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| 22:37.44 | jetscreamer | s/answer/response/ |
| 22:37.47 | annadane | (https://www.xkcd.com/349/) |
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| 22:38.27 | jetscreamer | in other news, the sky can be blue, sometimes |
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| 22:39.25 | jetscreamer | !love nvz & abrotman |
| 22:39.26 | dpkg | makes love to nvz & abrotman, caressing nvz & abrotman's hair, whispering sweet nothings in nvz & abrotman's ear... |
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| 22:47.30 | jim | threesome with a bot! |
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| 22:53.08 | Wikiwide | I am tired of dependency hell. I am using aptitude, that should help a little with understanding of dependencies. But still... |
| 22:53.17 | Wikiwide | I am moving from Debian Stretch to Devuan Ascii. Yesterday, I had wicd working. Today, after reboot, I don't have Internet at all. |
| 22:53.24 | Wikiwide | And given that Ethernet should be super easy to configure... |
| 22:53.25 | melpy | what the heck dpkg.. cheating on me |
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| 22:56.19 | jetscreamer | !penixstrike |
| 22:56.25 | jetscreamer | gah |
| 22:57.14 | Wikiwide | That's just, wow. Ifconfig doesn't seem to know of any interfaces outside lo. |
| 22:57.53 | Wikiwide | And, I managed to run wicd-gtk. Because I have psensors on start-up, and I put wicd-gtk into 'alarm' of psensors. |
| 22:58.42 | jetscreamer | ./etc/network/interfaces gets reset because a stock install of debian depends on networkManager. if that helps, fwiw |
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| 23:00.44 | Wikiwide | It 'helps' in the sense that my interfaces contain only auto lo. Should they contain auto eth0 , or something? |
| 23:01.33 | annadane | if your question concerns devuan, maybe ask them |
| 23:01.35 | annadane | !devuan |
| 23:01.36 | dpkg | Devuan (https://devuan.org/) is a Debian <derivative>, meant to avoid dependencies on <systemd>. Not supported in #debian, please see #devuan on chat.freenode.net for support. |
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| 23:05.51 | jim | Wikiwide, you're doing ethernet? |
| 23:06.05 | jim | (not wireless?) |
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| 23:08.50 | raidghost | Hmm. Trying to upgrade to a new version of fpcalc, but it still complains about "You got an old version of fpcalc" please upgrade to 1.4.3. Not sure if debian got that as a packacage |
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| 23:11.51 | raidghost | libchromaprint-tools is already the newest version (1.4.2-1). |
| 23:12.10 | dvs | ,v fpcalc |
| 23:12.11 | judd | No package named 'fpcalc' was found in amd64. |
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| 23:13.11 | raidghost | When i do a search with apt-get search fpcalc it shows: libchromaprint-tools - audio fingerprinting library - tools |
| 23:13.41 | raidghost | https://manpages.debian.org/testing/libchromaprint-tools/fpcalc.1.en.html |
| 23:15.00 | raidghost | But maybe thats something else. i dont know |
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| 23:16.03 | dvs | ,v libchromaprint-tools |
| 23:16.04 | judd | Package: libchromaprint-tools on amd64 -- jessie: 1.2-1; stretch: 1.4.2-1; bullseye: 1.4.3-3; buster: 1.4.3-3; sid: 1.4.3-3 |
| 23:16.20 | dvs | raidghost, you must still be on stretch |
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| 23:19.16 | raidghost | I guess i maybe should upgrade, then |
| 23:20.00 | raidghost | allways a tricky part to upgrade, allways a lot of questions that needed to be handled right away. And not all that i`m sure i have the answer for. |
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| 23:21.49 | pixel19 | why they name those funny names of baptism?.... stretch, bullseye |
| 23:22.02 | dvs | baptism? |
| 23:22.17 | raidghost | is there a AMEN? |
| 23:22.24 | dvs | Eh? Man? |
| 23:24.26 | pixel19 | stretch...kkkkk |
| 23:25.12 | pixel19 | should be THOR |
| 23:25.18 | pixel19 | ZEUS |
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| 23:28.41 | raidghost | ASTRA |
| 23:28.46 | pixel19 | for servers stars and greek names for buda sake |
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| 23:29.32 | astra | ?? |
| 23:29.56 | somiaj | Wikiwide: in general we suggest in debian you do not mix distros, this causes dependency problems. If you want to move to devuan, you should install it and migrate your data. We also don't support devuan (or based on debian) here |
| 23:30.10 | annadane | debian names are taken from toy story characters |
| 23:30.18 | somiaj | there is no upgrade path from debian -> some other distro. |
| 23:33.32 | pixel19 | the volume of mailing lists from debian community is autstanding |
| 23:34.11 | pixel19 | *outstanding |
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| 23:38.26 | intruder01 | What happens when debian runs out of toystory characters? Will they move on to another pixar franchise? |
| 23:38.50 | intruder01 | sorry, off-topic |
| 23:38.56 | somiaj | Debian is relying on the fact that new toy story movies and characters will be added to keep up with the release |
| 23:39.05 | somiaj | but we still have lots of names left, won't be running out any time soon |
| 23:39.22 | mason | There are always the credits. |
| 23:40.28 | pixel19 | should be more servers names |
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| 23:42.55 | pixel19 | much more presentable for the world... toy stoy?!:/ |
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| 23:44.27 | somiaj | I don't get what point you are trying to make and this is off-topic. Debian has been naming its releases after toystory since version 1.1, Buzz, https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases |
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| 23:44.35 | somiaj | https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases#Codenames |
| 23:46.27 | pixel19 | you keep control of the things. Despite scrutinize 1MTon of emails couldnt find one line of code of failures. |
| 23:47.17 | somiaj | what? You aren't making any sense to me. |
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| 23:48.06 | pixel19 | somiaj: the community keep control of security. |
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| 23:48.48 | intruder01 | like the mafia |
| 23:48.57 | pixel19 | kkkk |
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| 23:49.49 | raidghost | I wonder why i got: E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) |
| 23:49.51 | mutante | intruder01: you guys are infobots ? |
| 23:49.53 | pixel19 | but what if is there a brainiack to "help" there? |
| 23:49.59 | raidghost | as the last message after run apt full-upgrade |
| 23:50.13 | pixel19 | with second intentions |
| 23:50.40 | mutante | raidghost: it should give you the reason above that? |
| 23:51.06 | raidghost | libvirt-daemon-system |
| 23:51.18 | raidghost | can i reinstall that without have to reconfig it agaiN? |
| 23:51.26 | pixel19 | here is easy |
| 23:51.42 | raidghost | dpkg: error processing package libvirt-daemon-system (--configure): installed libvirt-daemon-system package post-installation script subprocess returned error exit status 1 |
| 23:51.42 | dpkg | raidghost: That isn't an error, post the whole output to a pastebin (/msg dpkg pastebin). |
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| 23:51.57 | pixel19 | reviews MTons of lines of code evereyday |
| 23:51.58 | raidghost | ups. pastebin it next time. sorry |
| 23:53.27 | pixel19 | but we have clamav, rkhunter, etc |
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| 23:54.38 | pixel19 | everything automated |
| 23:55.14 | intruder01 | mutante: I don't know him or what's an infobot |
| 23:55.38 | intruder01 | I was just Alex Jones'ing him |
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| 23:56.06 | erod | Hello. |
| 23:56.17 | raidghost | Hello World. |
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| 23:56.56 | erod | I have recently installed firejail and am running firefox through it. it has been some time since i've last used firejail, and my understanding of it's function must incorrect. |
| 23:57.00 | pixel19 | erod: burn all |
| 23:57.49 | intruder01 | pixel19: come to #debian-offtopic if you must have a debian-related rant |
| 23:58.02 | erod | I am assuming all downloads are being stored in some tmpfs, or similar, but i was curious to know where this is configured, or if someone could provide documentation to this feature. I haven't read much on the wordpress site |
| 23:58.25 | erod | Does this topic not fall under this channel? |
| 23:58.59 | intruder01 | erod: Your does, I think. I was talking to pixel19 |
| 23:59.23 | erod | My apology. I did not notice. |
