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| 01:32.33 | warsoul | anybody can help me with my debian freezing |
| 01:34.43 | cybiko123 | Is this a new install? If not, when did it start freezing? |
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| 01:34.55 | cybiko123 | Anything useful in dmesg -T? |
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| 01:37.38 | warsoul | cybiko123, happen the first time using irc nothing else |
| 01:37.54 | warsoul | the second time happen using firefox searching for something on google |
| 01:38.09 | warsoul | when i clicked the link it freezes |
| 01:38.16 | warsoul | just 2 times has freeze |
| 01:38.26 | warsoul | is a 1month and something install |
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| 01:39.17 | cybiko123 | Anything else correlated? Did it get hot? |
| 01:40.09 | cybiko123 | How much is frozen when it freezes? Does the cursor move? Can you switch to a VT? |
| 01:40.21 | cybiko123 | If sound is playing, does it get "stuck"? |
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| 01:42.33 | warsoul | it get stuck completely |
| 01:43.29 | cybiko123 | Next time this happens, check dmesg when it comes back |
| 01:43.47 | cybiko123 | check dmesg when it recovers* |
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| 01:45.47 | warsoul | ok |
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| 01:57.58 | tomreyn | warsoul: do you have a persistent systemd journal maybe? then you could check the previous boot / uptime / session now. |
| 01:58.05 | tomreyn | journalctl -b -1 |
| 01:58.53 | jh001_ | warsoul: what happened when you pulled your usb wifi after the hang? |
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| 02:03.40 | warsoul | jh001_ i haventr try it |
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| 02:10.12 | jh001_ | warsoul: why not? the log items you mentioned yesterday clearly involve a usb device. and now you're back with the same issue. |
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| 02:12.30 | warsoul | im going to check |
| 02:12.38 | warsoul | or mmaybe im buying a new device |
| 02:12.48 | warsoul | because this one the signal on debian is very low |
| 02:12.53 | warsoul | it works fine on windows |
| 02:13.02 | warsoul | but on debian for some reason is 53% |
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| 02:14.10 | jh001_ | warsoul: are you trying to solve a hung box or a slow wifi? |
| 02:14.52 | warsoul | im thinking on chaging it anyways because of the slow wifi |
| 02:15.06 | warsoul | and now it looks like is freezing the pc |
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| 02:22.40 | iuiututa | hi to all |
| 02:23.18 | iuiututa | i need help with bugs in my log |
| 02:23.38 | iuiututa | http://paste.debian.net/1100491 |
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| 02:36.22 | iuiututa | i shall never do an lvm cryto by hand again |
| 02:36.34 | jh001_ | iuiututa: could tou paste out the output of "lshw" as well please? |
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| 02:38.38 | iuiututa | jh001_ i will do it soon |
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| 02:40.26 | iuiututa | the client vm is in the middle of an update |
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| 02:56.18 | iuiututa | my hardware is sadly slow, i need to wait to give more feedback. i am finishing xfce4 installation |
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| 02:59.51 | iuiututa | i am concerned that the pc corrupted something in the installation. yr gonna be laugh when i post the hardware spec |
| 03:02.53 | dvs | !pal iuiu |
| 03:02.54 | dpkg | points at iuiu and laughs hysterically |
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| 03:09.32 | iuiututa | tinycore linux took me a fraction of time to install with X |
| 03:10.44 | iuiututa | i am wondering when the debian team is gonna deliver a true slim installation |
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| 03:17.08 | karlpinc | iuiututa: I always do a minimal install and install xfce afterwards. |
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| 03:17.29 | gkwhc | Hey guys, I'm trying to install mariadb on debian but its giving me a problem.."mariadb-client : Depends: mariadb-client-10.2 (>= 10.2.27+maria~stretch) but it is not going to be installed" how can this be resolved? |
| 03:17.42 | iuiututa | i did it, and now its all messed up |
| 03:17.59 | karlpinc | gkwhc: Are you using the stock debian repos? |
| 03:18.22 | gkwhc | karlpinc: yes |
| 03:19.16 | gkwhc | karlpinc: theres stretch main stretch-updates, stretch-backports |
| 03:21.11 | karlpinc | gkwhc: I don't see 10.2 in any of those. |
| 03:21.19 | karlpinc | gkwhc: So how are you trying to install it. |
| 03:23.37 | gkwhc | karlpinc: oh huh you're right, theres 10.3 and 10.1 but not 10.2 |
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| 03:24.01 | gkwhc | karlpinc: does that mean theres something wrong in my package list? i ran an update though |
| 03:24.41 | karlpinc | !bat |
| 03:24.42 | dpkg | In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 03:26.27 | gkwhc | ah ok! |
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| 03:28.45 | iuiututa | i dont know how lshw will help more than my previous post. but i will do it as soon as possible |
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| 03:29.37 | iuiututa | good times when a 2G machine did all we needed |
| 03:31.08 | iuiututa | my mobile put my pc in the pocket |
| 03:31.15 | iuiututa | and have 1G |
| 03:34.38 | iuiututa | the core dont have virtualization instructions believe this is a point to blame the hardware |
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| 03:50.23 | iuiututa | a promissed here you are https://paste.debian.net/1100494 |
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| 03:52.39 | iuiututa | to metion the host has 2Gram the client eated 1G |
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| 03:57.06 | jh001_ | iuiututa: thanks - was just trying to make sense of the slowness I was seeing in your dmesg |
| 03:58.04 | jh001_ | iuiututa: so looks like buster - did you upgrade or clean install? |
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| 03:59.02 | iuiututa | i did a clean install not today. now was just a slow xfce4 installation |
| 03:59.42 | iuiututa | but the fastness is not my concern |
| 03:59.58 | iuiututa | are the bugs in boot |
| 04:00.29 | iuiututa | forget fast slow stuff |
| 04:02.09 | iuiututa | the keywords a dependencies not ok |
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| 04:05.56 | iuiututa | and the system get stuck in the middle of the boot with manitenance prompt |
| 04:06.07 | iuiututa | i can give the image again |
| 04:07.00 | jh001_ | iuiututa: but has the box always been this sluggish, or just sincethe clean install? |
| 04:07.23 | iuiututa | https://pasteboard.co/Ixaacrb.png |
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| 04:09.44 | iuiututa | jh001_ any debian install is slow here, but again, my concerns are bug messages |
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| 04:13.23 | iuiututa | dependencies failed in many points |
| 04:14.48 | jh001_ | iuiututa: I understand, but your CPU stalls are not good. I suspect you kernel has bome unhappy with something. As you just did a clean install, you're probably in a position do do another one. Do a minimal install. Consider updating your BIOS first. |
| 04:16.44 | iuiututa | i believe i messed something choosing by hand the partitions an logical fisical volumes |
| 04:17.27 | iuiututa | im almost sure if i do a assisted install is gonna be ok |
| 04:18.11 | iuiututa | but i think if you offer manual tkeaks theis shuld be safe tweaks |
| 04:18.29 | jh001_ | iuiututa: yeah - start simple. |
| 04:20.04 | iuiututa | because i did all inside the installer |
| 04:20.30 | iuiututa | the installer must be fail proof |
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| 04:21.13 | iuiututa | im done for now |
| 04:21.21 | jh001_ | iuiututa: the installer gets better all the time - but perfect? not yet. |
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| 04:22.55 | iuiututa | hope the information may help something improved in the future |
| 04:23.37 | iuiututa | have all a good day |
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| 06:15.38 | cooeek | bonjour |
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| 06:22.10 | ZaZaGX | wee wee |
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| 07:40.56 | pincopallcolo | hi! I would like to install debian on ssd with the below configuration: sda gpt, efi (1GB), /boot (ext4 1gb), / (luks ext4), /home (luks ext4); i did it once for a non uefi system, with jessie version. Now I got during installation process the error I could not proceed with installation. Im using net inst iso expert mode (from my memory to format |
| 07:40.56 | pincopallcolo | in gpt the disk and luks in that way, I have to use only net inst iso, not normal live iso). Is my disk partition table bad setted? |
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| 07:43.03 | frikinz | I'm adding entries as auto in fstab. Is there something specific to do if I don't want systemd to block my boot if the remote share is nto reachable? |
| 07:44.08 | humpled | i think 'nofail' frikinz |
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| 09:01.46 | SaganMan | frikinz: backup your fstab before making any changes |
| 09:02.05 | SaganMan | and also add nofail as mentioned |
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| 09:08.13 | KBme | Hello. Does anyone know why after a db_get for a select type debconf question $RET just contains "ok"? |
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| 11:15.29 | andi_ | hello i just started a docker using the debian:stretch image, i wanted to additionally install apt-get install software-properties-common and got this erros: https://paste.xinu.at/6i94K/ what can i do to fix this? |
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| 11:15.50 | grammoboy2 | how do I make space during a dist upgrade ? Working from a live usb, chroot |
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| 11:16.56 | avu | andi_: did you run `apt-get update` before the `apt-get install`? |
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| 11:17.31 | andi_ | avu: yeah, https://paste.xinu.at/0rUwE/ |
| 11:18.05 | avu | andi_: no idea then, maybe try another mirror? |
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| 11:23.26 | gidna | Hello |
| 11:24.13 | gidna | Where can I find the package pdflatex for debian? |
| 11:25.35 | colo-work | gidna, texlive-latex-base |
| 11:26.23 | gidna | colo-work, to get info about that package what command should I use? |
| 11:26.46 | colo-work | gidna, apt-cache show texlive-latex-base |
| 11:27.01 | colo-work | also maybe relevant, apt-cache policy <pkgname> |
| 11:27.26 | gidna | Size: 984132 what is this? MB |
| 11:29.10 | colo-work | bytes, I believe |
| 11:29.18 | colo-work | the deps are going to be massivle more, however |
| 11:29.37 | gidna | so, 9.8 GB?? |
| 11:29.38 | colo-work | (apt-get install will tell you how many more MBytes your installation operation is going to consume on your filesystems) |
| 11:29.49 | colo-work | bytes. not megabytes. |
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| 11:29.59 | colo-work | I gotta go, sorry |
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| 11:33.38 | egonsen | where shall i put a self signed ssl certificate for use with apache2? |
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| 11:37.59 | omar | hello |
| 11:40.14 | bolt | egonsen: doesn't really matter. you tell apache2 where it is in the site configuration file. /etc/ssl/ subdirectories might be preferred by some. Just make sure the permissions are as restrictive as possible so your users can't read the private bit. |
| 11:40.38 | jelly | egonsen: you might as well mkdir /etc/apache2/ssl and put the key and cert there |
| 11:40.51 | bolt | egonsen: letsencrypt, for instance, will by default keep its certs in /etc/letsencrypt. That's fine too. |
| 11:41.26 | jelly | bolt: which LE client is that |
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| 11:42.32 | bolt | jelly: certbot. sorry, should have specified that |
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| 11:43.34 | bolt | jelly: /etc/letsencrypt/live/<domain>/privkey.pem |
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| 11:47.23 | jelly | dehydrated uses /var/lib/dehydrated/certs/$domain/ |
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| 12:22.04 | ihateAdmins | hello, so after a full day power off again, all the (ssh,apache,vsftpd) services are unavailable on boot, but the pc is pingable. |
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| 12:22.17 | ihateAdmins | After a quick reboot everything works fine again |
| 12:22.50 | ihateAdmins | Any ideas what might be happening? |
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| 12:26.14 | LtL | ihateAdmins: are you behind a router, and what is the systemctl status of the services? my guess is the router. |
| 12:27.23 | ihateAdmins | yes behind a router it's in my lan. The services are all running and active |
| 12:28.03 | ihateAdmins | This Problem only appears after pulling the plug of the pc and waiting ~10hours |
| 12:28.21 | ihateAdmins | it does get instantly a ip on boot eveytime |
| 12:28.42 | ihateAdmins | ip configuration is static |
| 12:29.09 | LtL | ihateAdmins: seems doubtful that three services would fail, but a flaky router could account for this. i don't know the details but i have followed this a bit. |
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| 12:30.54 | LtL | ihateAdmins: is the router doing DHCP? |
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| 12:32.12 | LtL | static addressing -might- have something to do with. |
| 12:32.28 | ihateAdmins | no everything is managed with the static network-manager configuration so the pc gets the same ip everytime, the dhcp service is not being used by the pc |
| 12:32.50 | ihateAdmins | the ip adress is not in range for dhcp usage |
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| 12:34.19 | LtL | ihateAdmins: not in range.. meaning iot's a class A subnet and not C ie 192.168.x.x? |
| 12:34.52 | ihateAdmins | i mean it is not used by dhcp, since there are not many devices it's class c |
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| 12:35.34 | LtL | everything on the LAN static? |
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| 12:36.30 | ihateAdmins | it's wlan and yes i did everything static in the config. Mac of wifi interface bssid ip.. |
| 12:41.22 | ihateAdmins | Dhcp is running, but currently it only used up to 30 adresses |
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| 12:41.41 | ihateAdmins | the pc is running on .150 |
| 12:42.10 | section1 | ihateAdmins, where are you trying to connect to that pc ? |
| 12:42.20 | section1 | from the same network ? o from outside ? |
| 12:42.25 | ihateAdmins | same network |
| 12:42.43 | section1 | if you do a telnet pc-ip 22 whats the output ? |
| 12:43.09 | section1 | i think that now its not falling .. |
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| 12:43.15 | section1 | and its working |
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| 12:43.54 | ihateAdmins | Escape character is '^]'.SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_7.4p1 Debian-10+deb9u7 |
| 12:43.57 | ihateAdmins | it is working |
| 12:44.30 | ihateAdmins | i can't reproduce the problem even if i pull the plug now. It takes a while to be turned off to appea |
| 12:44.41 | section1 | when is failing you can try to put a tcpdump on the pc with the service too se if the packets are coming..example tcpdump port 22 and do a the telnet test from other pc |
| 12:44.59 | section1 | to see* |
| 12:45.05 | ihateAdmins | that's a good idea thanks |
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| 13:35.44 | Lope | I'm running KDE on buster, I can't seem to get gnome-terminal to run |
| 13:36.01 | Lope | I installed it and used it once or twice, now it doesn't want to start up. |
| 13:36.22 | greycat | start it from some other terminal -- is there an error message? |
| 13:36.26 | Lope | On my other KDE Buster system, I use gnome-terminal all the time without any issues. |
| 13:36.36 | Lope | greycat, I tried that, no error |
| 13:37.46 | Lope | I ran it with `strace -t gnome-terminal`, it says: 15:37:15 write(1, "# Error constructing proxy for o"..., 157# Error constructing proxy for org.gnome.Terminal:/org/gnome/Terminal/Factory0: Error calling StartServiceByName for org.gnome.Terminal: Timeout was reached |
| 13:37.46 | Lope | ) = 157 |
| 13:38.14 | greycat | that looks very much like a message being written to stdout, so I wonder where stdout went... |
| 13:38.26 | Lope | before that it said: 15:37:15 fstat(1, {st_mode=S_IFCHR|0600, st_rdev=makedev(0x88, 0x2), ...}) = 0 |
| 13:38.42 | Lope | Ah, that msg came after about 30 seconds, I probably didn't wait that long before. |
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| 13:39.02 | greycat | I'd google the error and see what it means. |
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| 13:47.45 | finn0 | Lope: Are you facing this issue in your other user accounts also. If so, create a new user account and open gnome-terminal from their. |
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| 13:50.33 | finn0 | I've faced this once after changing my locale which is due to missing enviroment variable which later I figured out and exported that env variable in ~/.profile file. |
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| 13:53.00 | finn0 | But, I'm running GNOME. |
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| 14:21.39 | Lope | finn0, that's quite possible, because I did change locales |
| 14:22.14 | greycat | If changing locale variables makes gnome-terminal stop working, I reserve all rights to point and laugh at GNOME some more. |
| 14:22.38 | Lope | greycat, bash gnome as much as you want, gnome-terminal is better than konsole |
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| 14:22.44 | Lope | so I use it on KDE :P |
| 14:22.53 | hypersoul | halo |
| 14:22.56 | hypersoul | noob here |
| 14:23.02 | hypersoul | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:23.12 | Lope | welcome to mianus |
| 14:23.22 | hypersoul | help me dearsss and deersss |
| 14:23.56 | Lope | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mianus_%28neighborhood%29 |
| 14:24.10 | hypersoul | any website to learn ubuntu server from beginner configuration server dhcp server etc bla bla bla |
| 14:24.12 | finn0 | Lope: Then, some env variable must be missing. Probably it should be "GDM_LANG". |
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| 14:24.37 | greycat | hypersoul: ask #ubuntu |
| 14:25.19 | Lope | finn0, I tried exporting GDM_LANG but it didn't help |
| 14:25.34 | hypersoul | thank you greycat. lov you (cats) not racist by color . |
| 14:25.37 | Lope | finn0, if you have gnome-terminal working, can you do printenv | grep LANG and tell me what vars you have? |
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| 14:25.53 | finn0 | how you are exporting? |
| 14:26.08 | Lope | just in the terminal en_GB.UTF-8 |
| 14:26.12 | Lope | then run gnome-terminal |
| 14:26.27 | Lope | export GDM_LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 |
| 14:26.56 | Lope | I've got LANGUAGE and LANG set the same, as well |
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| 14:27.25 | finn0 | nope, that will not work. you've to add this line "export GDM_LANG="en_GB.UTF-8" in your ~/.profile and re-login. |
| 14:27.54 | Lope | finn0, you mean logout of KDE? |
| 14:28.02 | Lope | Ah I recall that being an issue before |
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| 14:28.08 | Lope | Okay I'll reboot |
| 14:28.11 | Lope | brb |
| 14:28.21 | Lope | or just logout, perhaps. |
| 14:28.23 | finn0 | yep, logout from user. |
| 14:29.00 | hypersoul | seems to be working goodluck |
| 14:29.13 | greycat | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+bug/1474927 appears relevant |
| 14:29.37 | jelly | finn0: how does gdm, running before a user logs in, and before knowing which user is going to log in, know about one specific user's ~/.profile? |
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| 14:30.00 | Lope | finn0, after logging out and back in, it #JustWorks |
| 14:30.06 | Lope | Didn't need GDM_LANG |
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| 14:31.10 | finn0 | then seems like after changing locale you didn't re-login |
| 14:32.01 | Lope | indeed |
| 14:32.08 | Lope | #NoobMistake |
| 14:32.13 | Lope | GTG BBL |
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| 14:39.26 | finn0 | jelly: sorry for my ignorance, I'm not that much familiar with GDM. But, I do know ~/.profile is read by /etc/gdm3/Xsession script (a shell script). And 'dbus-update-activation-environment' set all env variables defined in ~/.profile file. |
| 14:39.46 | onryo | How do I update the repo in cmd line? |
| 14:40.01 | onryo | Is it apt-get or apt upgrade? |
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| 14:43.41 | finn0 | jelly: And in my case there is one env missing due to which gnome-terminal wasn't working. So, I created a new user and check all env variables value and match it which current and found out that one env variable was missing (i.e. GDM_LANG). So, I decided to export this variable to put in ~/.profile which will automatically exported when I login to user. |
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| 14:47.35 | finn0 | *was |
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| 14:49.02 | jelly | nod |
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| 14:56.14 | greycat | My google results showed me a few bug reports about gnome-terminal silently or not-silently refusing to start up if the locale variables are not exactly what GNOME expects to see, and no resolution or acknowledgement of anything. |
| 14:56.26 | greycat | !pal GNOME |
| 14:56.27 | dpkg | points at GNOME and laughs |
| 14:56.49 | dvs | heh |
| 14:58.35 | LtL | oneon: on stretch or buster, apt update does an update, apt upgrade attempts to upgrade packages. apt-get update && apt-get upgrade does the same thing. |
| 14:58.58 | LtL | they left.. sigh. |
| 14:59.05 | greycat | Nearly the same. There are some differences between apt upgrade, and apt-get upgrade. |
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| 15:00.08 | LtL | greycat: wasn't aware of that, i'll have to read, thanks |
| 15:00.20 | greycat | The most important being that apt upgrade is closest to apt-get upgrade --with-new-pkgs; the second most important being whether .deb files are left behind. |
| 15:00.55 | LtL | good to know, thanks mr. greycat |
| 15:01.09 | greycat | The third most important being the fact that I can't read the progress meter of apt ugprade, because they use yellow fucking text. |
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| 15:01.32 | c4pt | https://github.com/c4pt000/kernel-5.2.14.expSEHDsec |
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| 15:34.48 | gkwhc | hey guys, so i just upgraded to debian 10 and my previously transparent lxterm is now opaque, even though i tried adjust the settings to be transparent. what could be wrong? how can i go about diagnosing this? |
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| 15:37.05 | diogenes_ | gkwhc, maybe with a new test user. |
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| 15:40.22 | karlpinc | gkwhc: Conceivably, the readme.debian has some info. |
| 15:40.29 | karlpinc | !tell gkwhc about readme.debian |
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| 16:42.10 | pthomas | hello, I would like to handle network config with environment variables set by scripts, any thoughts on how to do this? |
| 16:43.37 | notfbi | like cron jobs? |
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| 16:43.55 | pthomas | for instance in /etc/network/interfaces I would like something like iface eth0 inet $Eth0Type |
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| 16:44.07 | pthomas | 'iface eth0 inet $Eth0Type' |
| 16:44.25 | pthomas | where Eth0Type could be dhcp or static |
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| 16:45.23 | pthomas | notfbi, probably not cron jobs, I still want systemd to handle it |
| 16:45.56 | pthomas | I just want it to be dynamic, so that settings can be shared with u-boot |
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| 17:54.03 | gmturner | Hello, I'm trying to figure out why debian-10 initramfs doesn't seem to want to play nicely with ISO's or extracted live-ISO contents on NTFS usb sticks... Just exited the identical merry-go-round on Fedora and it turned out to be a dracut invocation issue: https://github.com/weldr/lorax/pull/849... wondering if perhaps the same thing might be applicable to debian but ... man, the live boot process |
| 17:54.03 | gmturner | can get pretty confusing, wondering if some SME might be hanging around that groks how all the pieces fit together post-buster? |
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| 17:56.41 | gmturner | Based on vague anecdotal evidence it seems like this may sort-of be a regression (or more like a "didn't-re-implement-that in the new framework)" since stretch |
| 17:57.01 | aZz7eCh | hi guys. running debian 9. have virtualbox 5. i have installed deb10 into a vbox to check it out... but it runs like a dogs breakfast. sluggish as hell. I noticed if i install deb9 in a vbox it is just as sluggish and unbearable.. even just hte mouse pointer is annoyingly slow. am i missing something obvious? i have been tweaking the settings for the vbox machine but nothing really makes any diff. any suggestions appreciated |
| 17:57.05 | Primer | gmturner: guessing it can't find the squashfs on ntfs? |
| 17:57.12 | Primer | gmturner: it being grub? |
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| 17:57.42 | aZz7eCh | btw - a windows 10 install in the same vbox version, runs smooth and fine. |
| 17:57.56 | gmturner | Yeah, it fails the is_supported_fs test in the initial initramfs code. Which is exactly the failure modality I encountered in FedoraLand, but their dracut approach seems drastically different |
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| 17:59.13 | gmturner | Specifically I suspect that Fedora is usuing vanilla dracut magic while debian is cooking up their own scripts and gut replacing most of dracut's shell scripts... can't seem to figure out where it all lives in git though |
| 17:59.23 | Primer | gmturner: oh, at the initramfs stage. Are you doing this in a VM/chroot? |
| 17:59.40 | Primer | usually one queries grub for the fs of /boot |
| 17:59.43 | gmturner | Yes but I 've tried bare-metal with equivalent results |
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| 18:01.05 | gmturner | Basically if we reach that is_supported_fs I think the game is already over as it's got this hard-coded "is there a kernel module with than name?" which is either going to give a wrong answer (ntfs.ko) or a false-negative answer (no ntfs.ko, but mount.ntfs-3g is right there waiting to be used on the initramfs) |
| 18:01.42 | Primer | gmturner: grub-probe /boot <-- What does this report? |
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| 18:02.02 | Primer | If /boot is applicable |
| 18:03.13 | Primer | aZz7eCh: yes, the stuff you install onto a guest upon install? |
| 18:03.18 | Primer | the stuff that makes it fast |
| 18:03.33 | aZz7eCh | Primer, its a fresh install - both 10 and 9, nothing installed |
| 18:04.20 | Primer | aZz7eCh: perhaps your 9 has stuff to supprt things like, a proper display? Are you running X? |
| 18:04.33 | Primer | Or is this booting into a console? |
| 18:04.54 | gmturner | Well for my particular usecase that's probably a mess unless I do it from gentoo.... my original objective before I started fixing stuff was to have USB stick with all the linuxen. My personal use-case involves hand-coding grub scripts and, sadly, blocklists (but I think I know how to fix that eventually). |
| 18:05.02 | aZz7eCh | Primer, not sure what you mean. I am using Debian 9 (gnome3?) |
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| 18:06.21 | Primer | gmturner: I'm interesteed in making such a boot USB as well. I have zfs root. But my plan was to just have native partitions on the USB, a UEFI partition about 2G in size, to support debian live minimal, and use it to boot off of, then install onto the device's partitions |
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| 18:06.28 | gmturner | What happens is it spins waiting for the magically is_supported filesystem to come online for some outrageously long period like ten minutes (well, outrageous when you're trying to debug and forgot for the 20th time to look up the argument that speeds it up :)). Then, yeah it times out and dumps me to a "(initramfs)" shell |
| 18:06.57 | Primer | gmturner: maybe it's running that grub-probe /boot :) |
| 18:07.17 | gmturner | That I've been able to do successfully, Primer, and even with hybrid gpt/dos partitioning if you are into that. |
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| 18:07.28 | Primer | gmturner: I presume you have some VM for doing this? I'm using qemu-kvm |
| 18:07.42 | Primer | gmturner: that's one of my goals, yes |
| 18:07.53 | Primer | as I'd also like to use this as a portable live system for S&G |
| 18:08.56 | gmturner | However I'm concerned that if I go that way I lose the "live" magic like, for example, I would hope a live bootstrap would include some special magic to not worry too much about persistent ethernet naming and stuff like that (even on persistent live systems). Or maybe it doesn't do that and this is all pointless :) But I still kinda feel like fixing it |
| 18:09.00 | Primer | So what exactly needs to be on the ntfs that can't be on, say, a big ass fat32 UEFI? |
| 18:09.05 | Primer | Like I'm doing |
| 18:09.26 | gmturner | The simplest answer would be, a gigantic casper-rw volume |
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| 18:09.33 | Primer | well, whatever boots would have to also implement ntfs-3g |
| 18:09.48 | Primer | hehe and that is solved by using a partition. next |
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| 18:10.20 | Primer | I mean, I realize this is out of the scope of what you want to do |
| 18:10.25 | gmturner | it actually does include ntfs-3g and mounts it just fine so long as you manually tell it to. I don't know how to tell dracut to pick up where it left off though... dracut is remarkably obtuse and discombobulated :( |
| 18:11.12 | Primer | yeah, the fact that you want your iso on ntfs would just be a...barrier, IMO |
| 18:11.21 | Primer | I mean, why must it be ntfs? |
| 18:11.22 | gmturner | But presumably if I knew how it would actually spin up just fine if I manually mounted the stage-zero rootfs and then said "now do your magic with that filesystem" |
| 18:11.33 | Primer | Is the casper > 4G? |
| 18:11.37 | gmturner | (if only I knew how to say that :P) |
| 18:11.43 | gmturner | Yeah. |
| 18:12.06 | Primer | So...is there any reason you can't just use a native partition instead? |
| 18:12.25 | gmturner | Debian is the sexyiest prospect for huge persistent live systems because it actually supports kernel upgrading (or at least used to and now has a bunch of gross remnant documentation getting my hopes up :)) |
| 18:12.54 | Primer | I know that you're pursuing casper. But you seem to know grub too. Just add a menuentry and have it boot a normally installed distro onto a partition. IMO. It's what I'm doing. |
| 18:13.03 | greycat | Debian has never supported kernel updates without a reboot. |
| 18:13.18 | Primer | gmturner: it is also my understanding that debian live is not as mature as say, ubuntu, when it comes to live |
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| 18:13.31 | Primer | and it being able to do things like, say, find its casper on ntfs |
| 18:14.02 | gmturner | No. I absolutely can do that. Although I'm not sure I know how to properly tweak a debootstrap or live-config or .... ? to make it be "live-ish" and still just mount a normal partition i.e., ext4 or lvm. |
| 18:14.17 | Primer | gmturner: my goal is also to have a live, persistent, debian 10 (testing) on a USB. I'm just not using casper. My plan is to use partitions. It seems...less painful. |
| 18:14.32 | Primer | gmturner: super easy |
| 18:14.41 | Primer | I can summarize it if you wish :) |
| 18:15.08 | Primer | I have been using debootstrap to make a live usb that has zfs root |
| 18:15.09 | greycat | debian 10 is stable now |
| 18:16.03 | gmturner | I think the problem is the project was run by some dude and there were some hard feelings about some nonsense and so now there is an official kind-of-bleeding-edge live framework and an unofficial more-stable-but-terribly-poorly-documented live framework, tons of wrong documentation and howto's etc... you know the standard thing for projects nobody really gives a crap about but 100 people really want :) |
| 18:16.07 | Primer | which boots from a debian live iso that boots from a grub menu entry that exists on a /boot that is on a native partition of said USB, using the grub iso loop mounting feature |
| 18:16.36 | gmturner | Sure, Primer, that'd be interesting to know. Stretch or buster though? |
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| 18:17.11 | gmturner | I haven't bothered with stretch as this was the old unofficial live regime which, AFAICS does not suffer from this bug (haven't confirmed that first-hand but plenty of anecdotal evidence to the contraray) |
| 18:17.18 | gmturner | contrary* |
| 18:17.19 | Primer | So the flow is: Plug in usb: wipe partition table, make BIOS/UEFI partitions, but make UEFI one 4G, put debian live iso there, install grub efi, boot efi, grub shell, isoloop isopath |
| 18:17.23 | gmturner | however you spell that stupid word :) |
| 18:17.39 | Primer | from there, follow zfs root guide, reboot, et voilà |
| 18:19.22 | AlpacaFace | hey guys. anyone have an idea of how to disable networkmanager in a chroot? |
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| 18:19.39 | Primer | Doing this all in qemu-kvm, btw. Which has an issue with allowing VMs to write to block 0 of raw devices, so I had to overcome that. |
| 18:20.41 | Primer | gmturner: anyhow, no reason the fs on the USB can't be anything else readable by grub. ext2. |
| 18:20.48 | gmturner | ah, yeah, that works for vfat right now on buster OOTB. It's just the NTFS script-glue that's missing. Basically this one module does it: github.com/weldr/lorax/pull/849/commits/ac64763a53 and probably would for debian as well ... but I can't seem to find where/if dracut is even invoked by debian live-* projects |
| 18:20.57 | Primer | Sure, windows won't read it, but who cares about that, right? :) |
| 18:21.43 | Primer | gmturner: that was kind of my point all along? Read what I wrote about debian live not being as mature as others |
| 18:21.44 | gmturner | yeah but then you really can't have the one usb to rule them all which is annoying, as I spent $80 on a really fast USB SATA SSD |
| 18:21.57 | Primer | i.e. not looking to mount ntfs at boot |
| 18:22.25 | Primer | on a usb3 bus, hopefully? |
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| 18:23.11 | gmturner | you see my dillema :) The mission was to throw out the 20 usb sticks in my "system administrative" bag and replace them with one stick. |
| 18:23.14 | Primer | gmturner: so again, I ask, why do you need an ntfs _partition_? |
| 18:23.25 | Primer | gmturner: yes, I want this too |
| 18:23.34 | Primer | You want it to boot windows, presumably |
| 18:23.51 | gmturner | yeah. the thing is surprisingly faster than all my spinning rust (but slower than all my real SSD's). |
| 18:24.04 | Primer | So...why can't you just chainboot to a partition with the windows boot loader on the MBR, or chain to its EFI file? |
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| 18:24.32 | gmturner | Yes, I have parents and old people and stuff who I help out with their windows troubles on a fairly regular basis. |
| 18:24.42 | Primer | And let the windows stuff take over at that point? It's still be easily integrated into a master boot grub menu |
| 18:25.19 | Primer | yeah, I'm family tech support. I keep a single bootable windows recovery USB as well. Separate, ATM, but I'd love to have it all in one. |
| 18:25.32 | gmturner | I can. but ... bleh it's a long story. Basically it's doable but there's little gotchas. For example until quite recently windows would not recognize usb sticks with more than one partition as removable which creates automation problems. |
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| 18:26.09 | Primer | We can make it work. I'm willing to help you with this. We can take it to PM. |
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| 18:26.19 | Figure | hi.. any idea how can I sign driver for kernel? |
| 18:26.34 | Figure | I've installed buster and wanted to upgrade to newer intel nic driver |
| 18:26.38 | Primer | ask them nicely in #debian on irc.oftc.net? |
| 18:26.48 | Figure | compiled fine but I'm not able to load it due signing |
| 18:26.51 | Primer | hehe j/k I wish I knew! |
| 18:27.11 | Primer | I had to give up secure boot when I installed nvidia-driver |
| 18:27.23 | Figure | well I know how to sign it where I can get the default certificates to sign it |
| 18:27.40 | gmturner | sg primer, see you there (but it's likely going to have to wait for a bit while I go see a doctor real quick (he's super close thankfully). |
| 18:27.43 | gmturner | ) |
| 18:28.18 | Primer | gmturner: I'm here 24/7/365.24 |
| 18:28.26 | gmturner | heh understood. |
| 18:28.59 | Primer | Figure: Is it not a factor of customizing the secure boot on the machine in question? |
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| 18:29.16 | Primer | in the firmware |
| 18:29.24 | Figure | it's matter of changing one kernel module on the fly |
| 18:29.26 | gmturner | I think if I can figure out who invokes dracut during live-build/live-config sessions, then it will be trivial to turn it into a "just merge it" bug-with-fix-attached. |
| 18:30.07 | Figure | and no I would not like to reboot it for NIC driver change.. that sounds like windows 95 |
| 18:30.41 | Primer | But the chain of trust extents all the way up into the firmware, if you booted securely |
| 18:31.45 | gmturner | This is the problem with secure boot afaics. Either you're the queen of Microsoftville, or you're not compiling your own kernel stuff ever. |
| 18:32.04 | Primer | pretty sure they're not just going to go "here are the keys! go ahead and sign it yourself!" |
| 18:32.26 | Figure | ffs why it's enabled by default? |
| 18:32.34 | Primer | S&G |
| 18:32.43 | Primer | E-peen |
| 18:32.44 | gmturner | Can you enroll your own key in EFI Figure? |
| 18:32.56 | gmturner | I think that's how you get this done. Never done it myself. |
| 18:33.29 | Figure | and I'm missing network connectivity from the machine due the fact that make install overwrote the original module |
| 18:33.39 | Primer | Maybe RMS asked it to be so |
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| 18:33.55 | Primer | Or maybe done to piss him off? More likely |
| 18:34.15 | gmturner | In theory once you have root on a system running on secure-boot you can tell it to enroll new keys or some nonsense like that, which is why it's great and totally not about stopping people from doing stuff :) |
| 18:34.31 | Primer | Figure: restore the linux-image deb from /var/apt/cache |
| 18:34.52 | Primer | I did that just the other day when I hosed iwlwifi. I still can't get that damn thing to come on from suspend |
| 18:35.09 | Figure | I would but it's not there anymore |
| 18:36.59 | gmturner | The process looks to be adequately described (at least as of 2015) at www.linuxjournal.com/content/take-control-your-pc-uefi-secure-boot (but again bear in mind I've never done this myself) |
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| 18:38.17 | Primer | I've not done it either, but what I saw in the firmware when I was poking around suggested that one needed to add one's own keys there |
| 18:38.58 | Primer | hence the unavoidavble reboot of customizing machine-specific secure boot |
| 18:39.29 | gmturner | Yeah if your EFI has those frobs you can get this done with sufficient head-scratching and a brief period of youtube-deprivation, or so I'd imagine :) |
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| 18:41.14 | gmturner | I think the presence of those frobs is also how you sort out the folks using and abusing UEFI to respectively help you be paranoid or force you to run their particular OS :) |
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| 18:43.14 | gmturner | Interestingly my phone uses UEFI for the latter -- or, it used to before 0-days eventually rescued everybody from Korean tyranny (LG :P). |
| 18:43.40 | Figure | linux-image-4.19.0-5-amd64 anyone got this stored? |
| 18:43.48 | Figure | signed version |
| 18:43.59 | gmturner | I might Figure. Just a mo |
| 18:44.53 | gmturner | you need checksums or what figure? |
| 18:45.22 | Figure | hmm found the dep package |
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| 18:45.29 | Figure | trying to restore the e1000e driver |
| 18:45.54 | Figure | I guess that with next reboot I will install unsigned kernel |
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| 18:48.14 | gmturner | Really unless you've got a pretty good reason to be paranoid about spies with USB sticks hacking your box, Figure, imo SB is not worth the hassle, especially on linux where every time you do anything interesting you seem to need to disable selinux and insmod something you built yourself (or at least it feels that way to me but I am surely in the upper "linux ricer" percentiles). |
| 18:48.18 | Primer | surely that's available generally from the internets? |
| 18:50.05 | gmturner | Yeah, that's what I thought... if you find a buster-10.0.0 ISO, Figure, those contain the package you're looking for |
| 18:50.57 | gmturner | Not that I actually know exactly what package that is... I'd have to boot debian to figure it out. But presumably you know already. |
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| 18:52.23 | Foxfir3 | run/user/1001/gvfs gives me: d????????? ? ? ? ? |
| 18:52.40 | Foxfir3 | permission denied, even when root |
| 18:53.17 | gmturner | If you just need the .ko you could probably just pull it out of the initramfs using cpio. or if you are on nonfree, something wacky like: (unxz | cpio -i; cpio-i) < initramfs beause they for some insane reason catted a compressed firmware initrd and uncompressed official initrd I think |
| 18:54.09 | gmturner | Yeah all fuse-mounts behave that way Foxfir3 |
| 18:54.47 | Foxfir3 | gmturner: okay. fuse-mount. hmm.. its blocking updatedb |
| 18:55.32 | gmturner | No idea why, it's stupid imo... oh, your're root, you can just pluck all these secrets from /proc but we're gonna just make it real hard for you to watch users davfs mounts :) |
| 18:56.25 | gmturner | Foxfir3, there is probably a fusermount option you could put on the commandline or /etc/fstab if you just undo whatever magical thing systemd did and do it all by hand |
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| 18:58.09 | Foxfir3 | okay. so the trouble begins fstab. Running a Pi4 with raspian. boot on microsd, and / on SSD. I must have messed up somewhere. |
| 18:58.49 | gmturner | hell you could just solve it using fusermount by daisy-chaining your fusemount to a root sshfs fuse mount :P |
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| 18:59.49 | gmturner | actually that might be the path of least resistance depending on your precise circumstances Foxfir3. How does the thing get mounted in the first place? |
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| 19:00.07 | Foxfir3 | gmturner: aaaalrighty :D I'll save that note. I have to read up on that stuff. |
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| 19:01.52 | gmturner | just be root, open up your favorite file manager gui (unless it's dolphin -- then use your second-favorite) and type sshfs://myuseracctname@localhost/~ for the folder name and you might well get a magical solution to your magical problem. |
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| 19:04.53 | gmturner | or I guess in your case you'd want sshfs://myuseracct@localhost/run/user/1000/media or something like that (wherever the "top secret user account-only" files are :) |
| 19:05.48 | gmturner | then the files will appear at /run/user/0/media or whatever corresponding place I suspect. |
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| 19:07.54 | gmturner | alternatively mount.sshfs --help. You'll need to be able to ssh in as that user though. So if you don't have ssh all set up and ready to go that would probably make it not worth the effort. Instead just maybe find some clever nc hack for this :) |
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| 19:09.52 | gmturner | Foxfir3 do you use some kind of overlay filesystem on that thing? That could be the root of your woes for sure. |
| 19:10.10 | gmturner | no pun intended :) |
| 19:10.27 | Foxfir3 | saving your notes. no luck with the filemanager. |
| 19:10.48 | Foxfir3 | its just ext4. |
| 19:10.58 | gmturner | if you're root, can you ssh into localhost as your user account? |
| 19:12.04 | Foxfir3 | i will have to set it up first. never thought of using ssh locally. |
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| 19:12.42 | gmturner | are you familiar with how to set up authorized_keys files? without that in place you might run into some missing "hey what's the password" dialog box problem. |
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| 19:13.38 | gmturner | if it's not a ton of files you might be better off just copying them somewhere root an access for starters and sorting out the mess once your system is working right. |
| 19:13.39 | Foxfir3 | i just use a config for my ssh keys, and yes authorized_keys. |
| 19:14.54 | Foxfir3 | so basicsally I got some weird mount issue? and since this setup is a bit out of the ordinary, that could cause It. |
| 19:15.11 | gmturner | ok, so as root do ssh-keygen -t [whatever your user account used], and drop the pubkey (which should have no password or keyring or anything else protecting it) into ~youruser/.ssh/authorized_keys,... which is fine, btw, it just says that as root you pwn yourself which was a given anyhow :) |
| 19:16.21 | gmturner | Yeah, Fixfir3. have you checked /proc/mounts for head-slappers like, maybe something is mounted read-only or something wacky? This might not be fuse related, I'm assuming that but there are other plausible causes on a downlevel device |
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| 19:17.57 | gmturner | like maybe your gizmo does some sort of super-early nonstandard pivot root trick that makes a hash of things somehow. Seen stuff like that on routers before for example, pretty annoying. |
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| 19:19.51 | Foxfir3 | just saving your notes. keygen just throws the list of options at me. strange. |
| 19:20.23 | Foxfir3 | I think you are on to something. Raspain sucks bigtime! I have no idea what kind of hacks they have done. |
| 19:20.44 | Foxfir3 | fuse should not be involved at all |
| 19:20.51 | gmturner | if you do "ssh-keygen -t rsa" it will probably work (at the expense of user security so maybe think about undoing it later) |
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| 19:21.03 | gmturner | even so we can use it to fix this. |
| 19:21.36 | gmturner | if your user has access, then we can fuse-mount your user's stuff into root's stuff and unwind the gordian knot from there. |
| 19:22.14 | Figure | ... efi secureboot is disabled and now only the kernel is forcing me to have signed drivers :/ |
| 19:22.47 | gmturner | There are ways to fuse-mount ext partitions though and you might want to make sure that's not what's going on. I'd sanity check /proc/mounts against my assumptions about what's going on. If it's fuse related it'll say the fs type is "fuse". |
| 19:23.04 | gmturner | if it's a regular ext4 mount, you'll probably see the offending option somewhere in the list |
| 19:23.30 | gmturner | in which case you could just say mount -o remount,no-stupid-option or whatever if you're lucky. |
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| 19:24.37 | gmturner | And if there's some kind of union fs or mount-stacking occuring that will also be reflected (check it as root of course) |
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| 19:26.55 | gmturner | lol, thats just mean Figure :P I'd take a look at the Documentation/ tree of your kernel.. I imagine there's probably some kernel command-line "just-freaking-boot-for-petes-sake" option in there :) |
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| 19:28.01 | Foxfir3 | gmturner: gvfsd-fuse /run/user/1001/gvfs fuse.gvfsd-fuse rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=1001,group_id=1001 0 0 |
| 19:28.15 | Foxfir3 | gmturner: well.. something strange is going on |
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| 19:28.28 | Figure | gmturner: it boots but I do not want to reboot I want it just to load the extra module that I just compiled |
| 19:28.46 | Figure | any idea if one can somehow enroll custom keys to running kernel for validating modules? |
| 19:29.01 | gmturner | aha, so it is indeed a fuse-induced problem. Unfortunately I have never figured out how to get fuse to tell you what is mounted and with with options... I'm not sure there actually is any way. |
| 19:29.39 | Foxfir3 | gmturner: to be honest.. sounds fuse really sucks :D |
| 19:29.44 | gmturner | it might well be that there's no standardized fuse thing equivalent to /proc/mounts for example, and each daemon can implement it's own special snowflake way of doing things |
| 19:30.12 | Foxfir3 | so its a free-for-all service? |
| 19:30.25 | SerajewelKS | it's more likely that it's a gvfsd problem than a fuse problem |
| 19:30.42 | Foxfir3 | gvfsd? |
| 19:30.46 | gmturner | Well at least you know fuse works on your system :) so you can likely use it to rescue yourself from your situation too using sshfs |
| 19:31.34 | SerajewelKS | what exactly is the issue? |
| 19:31.34 | gmturner | It's some kind of gnome/systemd/udev automagic monster. I try not to use that stuff personally so I'm pretty ignorant about it |
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| 19:32.31 | ctcx | Why is "tree" program never default included in Debian? |
| 19:33.13 | greycat | Priority: optional |
| 19:33.21 | SerajewelKS | if everything were included by default you'd need TBs to install |
| 19:33.41 | greycat | it's not commonly used, and it's not required for the normal operation of a system |
| 19:34.15 | SerajewelKS | you can accomplish a similar result with the find tool anyway: find -type d |
| 19:36.40 | ctcx | But that would only list directories, not files |
| 19:36.56 | ctcx | greycat: I never imagined tree program was not commonly used... |
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| 19:38.26 | SerajewelKS | to get files then just omit -type d |
| 19:38.45 | gmturner | Foxfir3, fuse can actually be really amazing but the more you rely on it the more you wind up stacking kernel tasks and user-space tasks in confusing and unexpected ways and it eventually can lead to some instability. But being able to get your actual files -- as "just files" -- from dropbox or a web server without some stupid gui is pretty darn useful under the right circumstances, for example. Not |
| 19:38.45 | gmturner | to mention get your debian live to boot from ntfs (well soon, at least, hopefully... just kidding that's a callback) |
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| 19:38.51 | greycat | ,popcon tree |
| 19:38.52 | judd | Popcon data for tree: inst: 26752, vote: 3418, old: 19429, recent: 3879, nofiles: 26 |
| 19:38.59 | greycat | Not hugely unpopular... |
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| 19:39.12 | gdarko | guys, does swap depend on ram? for example i have 16GB ram and it took 16GB for swap? could it be less? |
| 19:39.27 | gdarko | (this is new installation debian 10) |
| 19:39.33 | SerajewelKS | gdarko: you need at least as much swap as ram in order to hibernate. otherwise, it's a judgement call. |
| 19:39.34 | greycat | if you're on a laptop and you want to do hibernation, swap has to be >= physical RAM, as I understand things |
| 19:40.39 | somiaj | s/has/should/ (my understanding is you need enough space to write the working ram, if you use a lot of swap along with your physical ram, you have to take that into consideration too) |
| 19:40.56 | somiaj | though if you don't use any of your ram... |
| 19:41.01 | ctcx | Years ago it may have more important functions, but, nowadays, is hibernation the only thing swap is for? |
| 19:41.37 | somiaj | ctcx: It is still nice to have, espically if you have a memeory leak (often times the speed of swaping gives you enough time to recover the system) |
| 19:41.46 | SerajewelKS | linux still overcommits memory. swap is used when the system needs more RAM than it has; infrequently used pages are swapped to disk instead. |
| 19:41.50 | somiaj | also gives oom killer a bit more time to kill renagade proess. |
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| 19:42.08 | somiaj | (yea, being able to clear up space for cache also helps if that gets put on swap) |
| 19:42.56 | nvz | I think I need to enable oomkiller on my fathers machine now that you got me thinking about it :P |
| 19:43.09 | somiaj | hmm, I thought it was enabled by default. |
| 19:43.57 | nvz | he leaves FF open all the time with js hungry crap, and often when he goes to sleep or leaves it tends to OOM to the point even sysrq can't help |
| 19:43.57 | gmturner | if you've swapped your 16G of RAM out to spinning rust, you'll probably run out of patience or assume your box is dead, and hit reset, before it has the chance to swap back in and comes back to life, under load. It's still usefull for compressed ram loopback filesystems and stuff like that though |
| 19:44.42 | somiaj | I don't use swap on my desktop/laptop, but I have way more memory than I actually use (often am using only about 20-25% of total amount) |
| 19:45.02 | somiaj | But just because you can get away with not needing it, it still has its use in lots of cases. |
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| 19:46.01 | nvz | gdarko: in order to hibernate you need at least as much swap as ram |
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| 19:47.03 | ctcx | Is there a "debian-offtopic" channel? |
| 19:47.13 | greycat | yes |
| 19:47.40 | ctcx | Where is that? |
| 19:47.47 | nvz | #debian-offtopic |
| 19:47.53 | greycat | #debian-offtopic |
| 19:48.36 | ctcx | Thanks |
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| 19:49.07 | Figure | is there any repository for debian stable that would contain signed drivers? |
| 19:49.20 | Figure | I would bee needing newer e1000e driver |
| 19:49.35 | nvz | Figure: install a newer kernel |
| 19:49.46 | Figure | nvz: requires reboot |
| 19:49.54 | nvz | not really.. but w/e |
| 19:49.56 | greycat | ... |
| 19:50.05 | greycat | what |
| 19:50.47 | Figure | nvz: so how can I upgrade running kernel to different with out bootin to get newer driver? |
| 19:50.53 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 19:51.40 | nvz | you enable buster-backports to install the new 5.2 kernel, that itself doesn't require any reboot.. then you install kexec and read the manual on how to load the new kernel |
| 19:52.13 | nvz | you will have a temporary disruption because its very similar to a reboot in software anyhow, but no hardware reset ever takes place |
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| 19:52.19 | gdarko | nvz: so even if don't use hiberante feature i still need to assign that much ram for swap? |
| 19:52.44 | greycat | gdarko: no. |
| 19:52.47 | nvz | gdarko: hibernation is the only thing that requires swap at all.. if you dont want to hibernate, you don't need swap |
| 19:53.05 | nvz | swap has other uses, but none of them are requirements |
| 19:53.10 | greycat | if you don't plan to hibernate, use as much as you feel is appropriate for your situation, as you were advised already |
| 19:53.18 | SerajewelKS | it would probably be useful to have 1-2GB of swap still |
| 19:53.34 | Figure | so then it would be unsinged kernel + kexec |
| 19:53.35 | SerajewelKS | so the kernel can kick out pages that aren't used to make room for more I/O cache |
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| 19:58.39 | nvz | Figure: the kernel is signed |
| 19:59.15 | nvz | ,i linux-image-5.2.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 --release buster-backports |
| 19:59.16 | judd | Package linux-image-5.2.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 (kernel, optional) in buster-backports/amd64: Linux 5.2 for 64-bit PCs (signed). Version: 5.2.9-2~bpo10+1; Size: 47512.0k; Installed: 266876k; Homepage: https://www.kernel.org/ |
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| 19:59.37 | greycat | judd, why you no list that in ,kernels |
| 19:59.38 | judd | No package named 'you' was found in buster/amd64. |
| 19:59.45 | greycat | ,kernels |
| 19:59.46 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.3.0-rc5-686 (5.3~rc5-1~exp2); sid: 5.2.0-2-686 (5.2.9-2); buster: 4.19.0-6-686 (4.19.67-2); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (4.19.37-5+deb10u2~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-11-686-pae (4.9.189-3); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.9.168-1+deb9u5~deb8u1) |
| 20:00.02 | nvz | ,v linux-image-amd64 |
| 20:00.03 | judd | Package: linux-image-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.16+63+deb8u2; jessie-security: 3.16+63+deb8u6; stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u9; stretch-backports: 4.19+105~bpo9+1; buster: 4.19+105+deb10u1; buster-backports: 5.2+106~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.2+106; sid: 5.2+106 |
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| 20:02.41 | somiaj | someone might need to manually add buster-backports to the list of kernels judd keeps track of |
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| 20:04.39 | greycat | I thought something like that as well |
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| 20:06.26 | gdarko | nvz: i thought i will have some benefit of it in bad times :) but i will disable it. Anyway for a WordPress site i already assigned 16 GB so i don't think i need more of that or additional swap. |
| 20:06.47 | Figure | nvz: I want to be on stable + one upgrade on one driver |
| 20:06.57 | greycat | how on earth can wordpress need 16 GB |
| 20:07.15 | somiaj | I'd still advocate swap on a server, better to have and not use, then need and not have |
| 20:07.22 | gdarko | those are two busy sites greycat |
| 20:07.35 | gdarko | i will host one vm |
| 20:07.37 | nvz | Figure: then do it.. debian doesn't keep any special repo for drivers we have dkms packages for some things.. but afaik that driver isn't one of them |
| 20:07.43 | somiaj | and wouldn't ram ussage depend on number of people accessing the site at once? |
| 20:07.51 | greycat | not... really? |
| 20:07.55 | gdarko | i don't know |
| 20:08.04 | Figure | nvz: I was trying to liik if dkms can sign drivers or not |
| 20:08.06 | gdarko | i don't think 16 GB will be ever used |
| 20:08.12 | gdarko | they are using redis too |
| 20:08.15 | greycat | typically you set a limit on the number of HTTP and PHP workers |
| 20:08.37 | Figure | nvz: https://github.com/koljah-de/e1000e-dkms-debian this would be the one |
| 20:12.00 | nvz | Figure: I dont know for certain as I dont use secure boot, but afaik dkms is aware of such things and can do that automatically |
| 20:13.01 | nvz | I would imagine that if you are using a signed kernel with secure boot dkms will handle it |
| 20:14.32 | nvz | Figure: there is a dkms channel on the official network irc.debian.org ( irc.oftc.net ) #debian-dkms |
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| 20:15.52 | nvz | Figure: however there are only two nicks in there from what I can see.. you may want to ping the mailing lists or such |
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| 20:17.21 | nvz | Figure: there is also #debian-kernel on the server which has many more people in it |
| 20:18.18 | nvz | Figure: debian-kernel@lists.debian.org |
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| 20:24.26 | zetuno | hello. trying to mount a luks encrypted volume. `cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/mapper/foo--vg-foo foo_crypt` succeeds. I get /dev/mapper/foo_crypt, but `mount /dev/mapper/foo_crypt /foo` reports bad option, superblock, etc. error. `fdisk -l` shows a device named "/dev/mapper/foo_crypt-part1" of the size and type that I expect. however I can't see any file at /dev/mapper/foo_crypt-part1 |
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| 20:25.54 | nvz | zetuno: the crypt container in question seems to contain an LVM not a filesystem |
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| 20:27.47 | nvz | zetuno: really you seem to be going about this all wrong but I can't say for certain as there is not remotely enough information |
| 20:30.13 | nvz | zetuno: you seem to be using luksOpen on an LVM |
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| 20:30.57 | nvz | on my system /dev/sda5 is a LUKS container containing an LVM, when I open that with cryptsetup I have mountable volumes under the LVM |
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| 20:35.24 | zetuno | hmm. lvscan doesn't show anything inside the container |
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| 20:36.53 | nvz | idk wth you did.. only you can explain that |
| 20:37.05 | nvz | if you wanna be vague, figure it out yourself.. |
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| 20:40.09 | GenTooMan | how can I search for a backport for buster? all that appears to be on https://backports.debian.org/Packages/ is backports information for stretch. |
| 20:40.31 | nvz | GenTooMan: packages.debian.org |
| 20:40.45 | greycat | there's literally a link that says Buster right under Stretch and Stretch-sloppy |
| 20:41.15 | nvz | and its a link to p.d.o cause its all managed in the same place now.. that stuff is outdated |
| 20:42.21 | annadane | https://packages.debian.org/buster-backports/ or if you go search on the main packages.debian.org website and select all suites instead of just stable it will list buster-backports even though it isn't an option in the dropdown menu |
| 20:43.26 | zetuno | okay whats the correct way to create a mountable volume inside the container? do I create a partition on foo_crypt with `parted /dev/mapper/foo_crypt` commands, or do I just mkfs? |
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| 20:45.15 | nvz | you are confusing terms |
| 20:45.22 | GenTooMan | well I am searching for nextpnr but buster only has the much older arachne-pnr. I currently am have trouble building next-pnr so vainly I was looking to find it. Such is life or mine at least. |
| 20:45.53 | greycat | ,v nextpnr |
| 20:45.54 | judd | No package named 'nextpnr' was found in amd64. |
| 20:45.56 | nvz | volumes, partitions, filesystems are three different things |
| 20:45.57 | greycat | ,v next-pnr |
| 20:45.58 | judd | No package named 'next-pnr' was found in amd64. |
| 20:46.05 | greycat | you used both names but neither one is a package name apparently :( |
| 20:47.24 | nvz | https://salsa.debian.org/electronics-team/nextpnr |
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| 20:49.45 | nvz | near as I can tell the source hasn't even been debianized much less packaged |
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| 20:50.30 | nvz | ah nm mahybe it has been debianized |
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| 20:54.42 | cad_ | test |
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| 20:56.31 | nvz | idk what happened with that.. #907240 was filed, the project was put on salsa.. then just seems to have gone silent |
| 20:56.32 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/907240 in wnpp (open): «ITP: nextpnr -- Portable FPGA place and route tool»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2018-08-25; last modified: 2019-05-31. |
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| 20:57.03 | nvz | near as I can tell the author/maintainer dropped the ball |
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| 20:57.08 | greycat | you can't have a backport of a thing that's not packaged at all yet |
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| 20:58.33 | nvz | https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=ruben.undheim@gmail.com |
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| 20:59.58 | GenTooMan | The truth is a pain filled thing as I like to say. However I wondered why arachne was in the distribution instead of next because arachne stopped maintenance in December of last year I think |
| 21:00.22 | nvz | I see no reason for it, I guess you'd have to ask Ruben himself.. he set the wheels in motion like 13mo ago and then nothing.. |
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| 21:00.57 | nvz | ,v archane-pnr |
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| 21:00.58 | judd | No package named 'archane-pnr' was found in amd64. |
| 21:01.33 | greycat | you have to spell arachne correctly |
| 21:01.33 | GenTooMan | ,v arachne-pnr |
| 21:01.34 | judd | Package: arachne-pnr on amd64 -- stretch: 0.1+20160813git52e69ed-1; bullseye: 0.1+20180909git840bdfd-1; buster: 0.1+20180909git840bdfd-1; sid: 0.1+20180909git840bdfd-1 |
| 21:01.42 | nvz | ,v arachne-pnr |
| 21:01.43 | judd | Package: arachne-pnr on amd64 -- stretch: 0.1+20160813git52e69ed-1; bullseye: 0.1+20180909git840bdfd-1; buster: 0.1+20180909git840bdfd-1; sid: 0.1+20180909git840bdfd-1 |
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| 21:02.01 | nvz | yes well that was in stretch |
| 21:02.05 | nvz | !stretch |
| 21:02.05 | dpkg | Stretch is the codename for the current <oldstable> release, Debian 9, released 2017-06-17. "Stretch" is the rubber octopus in Toy Story 3, see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianStretch . Ask me about <install stretch>, <release notes>, <jessie->stretch>. |
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| 21:02.42 | nvz | which was released in 2017 |
| 21:03.07 | nvz | and things will remain in debian as long as they continue to build and someone continues to build them |
| 21:03.26 | nvz | we talked about this a couple days ago.. things like xmille or such.. been around forever |
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| 21:04.13 | GenTooMan | well I was surprised to find IceStorm so I guess next-pnr has to be shoved in, without it a lot of designs kind of don't route well. |
| 21:04.15 | nvz | were it me, and I was concerned about it I'd try contacting Ruben Undheim or the debian-electronics mailing list |
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| 21:05.56 | cad_ | saludos |
| 21:07.14 | nvz | cad_: hablamos ingles aqui, por ayuda en espanol usar irc.debian.org y #debian-es |
| 21:07.37 | cad_ | ok |
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| 21:10.00 | xaeB5 | i somehow never noticed that debian 10 was released |
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| 21:10.11 | xaeB5 | until i saw news of 10.1 |
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| 21:11.05 | greycat | better late than never |
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| 21:12.09 | annadane | i think i'll start skipping x.0 anyway, give time for some bugs to be ironed out |
| 21:12.31 | vlt | had to downgrade to 9 to fix a serious problem. Maybe 10.1 works. |
| 21:12.38 | nvz | I'm a bit fuzzy on the debian release process anymore.. heh.. I used to think of point releases as just new images of latest security updates but now we have things actually changing versions and that is a bit fuzzy to me |
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| 21:13.12 | xaeB5 | excited to upgrade. i love debian |
| 21:14.12 | nvz | I was contemplating building VMs going all the way back to when amd64 was introduced in like Debian 4 just to refresh my memory on things :P |
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| 21:14.57 | nvz | I'd only used Potato a few days before Woody came out.. and recent changes just seem a blur to me |
| 21:15.42 | annadane | i mean i do think some bug fixes should be a feature of point releases |
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| 21:15.48 | xaeB5 | so i have a question. i usually install ufw and use its default deny incoming, allow outgoing rule set. but i read something about nftables replacing iptables. is there a tool like ufw for nftables? |
| 21:15.51 | annadane | not so much that it fundamentally changes upstream though |
| 21:16.09 | annadane | there'll always be bugs in anything |
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| 21:24.04 | GenTooMan | annadane yes bleeding edge is messy but I wanted to avoid a franken debian to get the tools I wanted. |
| 21:24.06 | somiaj | xaeB5: nftables is partially backwards compadable with iptables, and debian's iptables should have most of this. |
| 21:24.30 | annadane | well it's not like 10.0 is bleeding edge |
| 21:24.38 | xaeB5 | somiaj: ok |
| 21:24.38 | somiaj | xaeB5: so you could continue using ufw with iptables that actually uses nfttables. Maybe as more distros make nftables default, more tools will evolve. |
| 21:24.49 | xaeB5 | cool |
| 21:24.50 | annadane | 10.1 just gives you a bit of buffer to make sure stable is *really* really ready |
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| 21:26.18 | annadane | i suppose some truly paranoid folks will wait until x.2 but i want my new stuff |
| 21:27.22 | somiaj | annadane: some people are still using wheezy on lts....really depends on what they are using debian for |
| 21:27.33 | somiaj | (upgrades on production systems can take a lot of work are may not be needed) |
| 21:27.46 | annadane | oh of course, i just mean for the casual desktop user |
| 21:29.31 | somiaj | yea, I guess I'm just older now, but I find I upgrade my desktop once old stable is no longer supported, but my desktop works like I want it to, no need to take time to change it |
| 21:29.41 | somiaj | but 5 years ago, it was all about the newest software. |
| 21:30.27 | annadane | sid is also probably more stable in the not breaking sense than some linux distros so it's not like upgrading to *.0 when stable releases is a bad thing or anything |
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| 21:33.12 | somiaj | yea, you would think the 8 months we took freezing and stablizing the release is enough, but waiting another few months just means more people and more testing |
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| 21:35.30 | annadane | only upgrading to *.1 also probably means you've read the release notes properly :P |
| 21:36.54 | somiaj | it could take someone that long to read them all... |
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| 21:43.09 | annadane | it's not a bad balance. buster released on july 6 and 10.1 was on sep 7, you don't have to wait *that* long for potentially significant bug fixes the release team didn't catch |
| 21:43.29 | annadane | still though, hard to wait for 2 years and then voluntarily put it off even more |
| 21:45.07 | f8e3 | if digitalocean firewall is enabled inbound rule with ssh tcp 22 blocked |
| 21:45.45 | somiaj | f8e3: is there a question there? You may want to contact digitalocean about their policies. |
| 21:46.48 | f8e3 | somiaj in general what do i have to set to allow eg a https request? do i need to allow inbound tcp too (which is layer lower) ? |
| 21:47.18 | f8e3 | its a server deb9 and has a small http rest api on a port X |
| 21:47.19 | somiaj | I always open both tcp and udp ports, but it really depends on what protocol is being used for communication |
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| 21:47.27 | somiaj | someone who knows this stuff may give a better answer |
| 21:47.29 | somiaj | (##networking might) |
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| 21:48.40 | thexa4 | https is tcp port 443 |
| 21:48.44 | thexa4 | http is tcp 80 |
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| 23:09.58 | genr8__ | I have a question about NGINX and the module system (RTMP module specifically) . This pastebin is from my own Debian 10 system https://pastebin.com/3twXG1Fy |
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| 23:10.34 | genr8__ | How can the nginx -V configure line not include any mention of the "rtmp" module but yet such a module was built, and I'm using it and it works. |
| 23:14.11 | SerajewelKS | what does 'which nginx' say? |
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| 23:14.35 | genr8__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:14.41 | SerajewelKS | as in -- is it possible that you're using the debian-provided nginx binary, with your self-built rtmp module? |
| 23:14.43 | genr8__ | its the debian factory version |
| 23:14.46 | genr8__ | nope |
| 23:14.54 | genr8__ | both came from apt-get |
| 23:15.01 | SerajewelKS | that's literally what i just said |
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| 23:15.22 | SerajewelKS | oh i see, you didn't build the rtmp module |
| 23:15.26 | genr8__ | no i did not. |
| 23:15.31 | SerajewelKS | the same explanation is probably true |
| 23:15.43 | SerajewelKS | nginx / nginx-full was probably built from a different source package |
| 23:16.10 | SerajewelKS | hmm nope, the source package is nginx |
| 23:16.21 | genr8__ | I thought all modules had to be passed to the configure line when nginx was built, in order to work |
| 23:16.33 | SerajewelKS | my guess is that it's a detail of how the module gets built. you could look in the nginx source package to see how it builds the rtmp module. |
| 23:16.36 | SerajewelKS | no, that's not true |
| 23:16.42 | genr8__ | :) |
| 23:16.56 | SerajewelKS | if there's a .so file in the right place and it's ABI-compatible, nginx can load it |
| 23:17.04 | SerajewelKS | "all modules had to be passed to the configure line when nginx was built, in order to work" is false |
| 23:17.10 | genr8__ | so it somehow got built manually? |
| 23:17.32 | SerajewelKS | not manually, just possibly as a separate build step |
| 23:18.02 | genr8__ | hmmm ok. so the build system would have evidence of that you're saying |
| 23:18.24 | genr8__ | i have to admit idk how to look that up |
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| 23:24.27 | SerajewelKS | genr8__: but regardless, nginx -V does not need to list a module for it to work |
| 23:24.47 | SerajewelKS | you can build nginx modules from source and put them in the right place on a debian system and the debian nginx will pick them up and use them |
| 23:25.01 | SerajewelKS | and nginx -V won't list them because debian's nginx wasn't built with them |
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| 23:29.51 | genr8__ | is the build file you're referring to? https://salsa.debian.org/nginx-team/nginx/blob/master/debian/rules |
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| 23:30.37 | genr8__ | judging from this, it looks like there is a "full_configure_flags" that is what I have, and then "extras_configure_flags" which built actually the module |
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| 23:36.05 | genr8__ | i think im satisfied with that. two build steps. |
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