| 00:00.01 | epony | I think that software came from #redhat |
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| 00:00.34 | epony | to replace the sysV init scripts with runlevels which were not that good :-) |
| 00:00.53 | bustero | brianherman, a swap partition or a swap file. I do not have unpartitioned space on my SSD |
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| 00:03.15 | epony | bustero if you had used a swap partition about 2x the size of your ram or like 10-20 GB (10% of the disk) and it sits mostly empty, that gives you a 10% headroom to reduce the chance of filling it all up (which may increase the effort on the wear leveling on the previous gen drives) |
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| 00:07.51 | bustero | epony, i did not create a swap partition. do i have to create one or is it perhaps better to create a swap file? i remind you that I do not have any unpartitioned space left on my SSD |
| 00:08.12 | epsilon | bustero: pro tip: always left few gig, 10gig free space for emergencies |
| 00:08.35 | epony | bustero try with a file first, probably should do |
| 00:08.36 | epsilon | always useful if you need some space somewhere in the directory |
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| 00:10.10 | bustero | with gparted i can shrink the /home partition and then create a swap partition if you consider this option to be way better than creating a swap file |
| 00:10.54 | whislock | Whether file or partition, it gets mapped the same way. A swap file should be fine. |
| 00:10.56 | epsilon | epony: swap 2x the ram is definitely outdated, ram is cheap these days. usually 50% of ram is enough, if swap is being touched, just add more ram |
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| 00:11.55 | epony | epsilon yeah, I live in the 4GB RAM land |
| 00:13.10 | winny | if you wish to run pm-hibernate, you'll want at least as much ram in swap |
| 00:13.14 | epony | (I'd typically just use the installer suggested defaults) |
| 00:13.25 | epony | winny gets it |
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| 00:14.00 | winny | if you use a lot of swap, OOM killing won't happen for awhile, and you can gracefully try to reduce memory pressure (instead of killing journald or whatever OOM decides on) |
| 00:14.02 | epony | (some times dumps on crashes need space there too, you have some swap in use too) |
| 00:14.48 | epony | what does the "probably" outdated wiki say? :-D |
| 00:16.20 | bustero | i neither suspend nor hibernate. i have 8 GB RAM |
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| 00:18.04 | *** topic/#debian is Debian 10 Buster released! /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.9 ; 9.9 needs dist-upgrade | Jessie: jessie-{updates,backports} removed, /msg dpkg jessie-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net| chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
| 00:18.07 | epony | on my 4GB system I have 8GB swap spread over 2 drives equally |
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| 00:18.54 | bustero | I open five Firefox tabs maximum but.. my laptop crawled when I was transferring 30 GB of data from my USB flash drive onto my SSD. The laptop became almost non responsive. |
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| 00:19.05 | epony | 4GB was getting filled occasionally during prolonged use |
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| 00:19.20 | winny | bustero: do you trim your SSD regularly? |
| 00:19.51 | winny | this can help improve performance of SSDs in general |
| 00:20.19 | Tom-_ | i have 8 GB of RAM and I think i've used well over 100 tabs in firefox |
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| 00:20.34 | Tom-_ | ,v nvidia-legacy-304xx |
| 00:20.35 | judd | No package named 'nvidia-legacy-304xx' was found in amd64. |
| 00:20.52 | bustero | how would i know if i trim regularly? I just installed buster on my 256 SSD |
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| 00:21.42 | epony | if you've not done too much work on the fresh install, re-install (wipe clean) and use auto-partitioning (defaults) |
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| 00:23.27 | bustero | epony, that is a too radical solution |
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| 00:24.07 | Lady_Aleena | Were the nvidia drivers renamed or moved between stretch and buster? I am currently using nvidia-legacy-304xx. |
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| 00:25.55 | jmcnaught | Lady_Aleena: it appears that nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver is not in buster, but nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver is. There's a list of supported GPUs in the description: https://packages.debian.org/buster/nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver |
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| 00:28.18 | Lady_Aleena | jmcnaught, I misread the number. |
| 00:28.55 | Tom-_ | this preparation is a good idea too :) |
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| 00:29.57 | bustero | Do i need "relatime" mount option in /etc/fstab ? I have a 256 GB SSD and have just installed buster |
| 00:30.32 | Lady_Aleena | Oh good guh! I did apt-cache search 'nvidia', and I have some things that say 340 and others with 304. *head desk* |
| 00:31.20 | jmcnaught | bustero: no relatime is already included in defaults |
| 00:31.41 | Tom-_ | Lady_Aleena, i don't remember which one of those you needed, but i think it was 340 |
| 00:31.45 | Lady_Aleena | Can anyone make sense out of all of these packages? |
| 00:31.47 | Tom-_ | i know they look deceptively similar |
| 00:31.50 | Lady_Aleena | http://paste.debian.net/1090653/ |
| 00:32.51 | jmcnaught | Lady_Aleena: those aren't installed packages, they're available packages. 'dpkg -l | grep nvidia' should show you installed nvidia packages |
| 00:32.54 | Synaptic | how to see wich port is using a process in order to add to ufw ? |
| 00:32.58 | epsilon | bustero: if you don't need a(ccess)time, consider using noatime to reduce writes on SSD |
| 00:33.11 | Lady_Aleena | head desks again. |
| 00:33.13 | jmcnaught | Lady_Aleena: I think nvidia-detect also shows which driver you need |
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| 00:34.05 | Tom-_ | Lady_Aleena, yeah, nvidia-detect is supposed to answer that for you. but it looks like nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver is the one you'e supposed to install, and probably have installed already |
| 00:34.24 | Lady_Aleena | jmcnaught, thanks... now I have that list, and it is 340 NOT 304. |
| 00:34.27 | Tom-_ | I just checked packages.debian.org and this nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver package has the exact same drivers in the description as Stretch as in Buster |
| 00:34.41 | bustero | epsilon, can you please explain in plain English what you just wrote? |
| 00:34.51 | Lady_Aleena | Okay, so nvidia shouldn't be a problem this time. |
| 00:35.06 | Tom-_ | i hope not! and i think the reason it was the last time was because I gave you the wrong recommendation |
| 00:35.34 | Lady_Aleena | Well, we shall see. Maybe tomorrow. |
| 00:36.00 | Lady_Aleena | I am going to start to make something to eat in about 15 minutes, then eat, then whatever next. |
| 00:36.31 | epsilon | bustero: atime is record when a file has been last accessed. If you never us it (and usually you don't), tell fstab not to record/write it. |
| 00:37.45 | epony | bustero see https://wiki.debian.org/SSDOptimization#Mounting_SSD_filesystems |
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| 00:40.30 | bustero | jmcnaught said " no relatime is already included in defaults" |
| 00:41.05 | jmcnaught | bustero: relatime and noatime are not the same thing |
| 00:42.33 | bustero | so, what do i need to add to my fstab to keep my 256 GB SSD healthy? i just installed buster |
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| 00:46.23 | epsilon | <epony> bustero see https://wiki.debian.org/SSDOptimization#Mounting_SSD_filesystems <- this |
| 00:47.06 | epony | I'm also using noatime on the BSDs, especially on flash devices and SSDs. |
| 00:47.19 | epony | (and for /home etc) |
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| 00:48.17 | bustero | epsilon, the wiki is confusing |
| 00:48.55 | try | To wayland or not to wayland. That is the question! |
| 00:49.22 | epony | What's the difference :-) |
| 00:49.27 | try | I have a couple machines with nvidia. It sounds like I'm out of luck there. |
| 00:49.35 | epony | *I know the answer to that question* |
| 00:49.42 | try | But I really want to see the new hotness |
| 00:49.53 | epsilon | bustero: just add noatime for the beginning |
| 00:50.09 | try | @epony, yeah yeah, I'm ditching that hardware on my nephew |
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| 00:50.40 | epsilon | won't kill your machine cause you didn't follow everything on the page - I don't do it neither |
| 00:52.33 | epsilon | on usual desktop usage, you'll replace a SSD because it became too small after several years and now because of exceeded usage |
| 00:52.39 | epony | try I'm using Radeons since the late 90ies.. |
| 00:53.30 | try | @epony, I'll be picking up an RX580 this week, after the expected price drop |
| 00:53.34 | epony | mine most used cards are 5450 and 6450 (both cost 35 EUR new) |
| 00:53.41 | bustero | /boot/efi needs noatime too? |
| 00:54.03 | try | nice! |
| 00:54.36 | try | I need to drive a couple of 1080p monitors, so no special requirements here. Maybe some opencl stuff down the road |
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| 00:55.02 | epony | I'm using 1440p IPS panels from 2011 (dual-link DVI cables) |
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| 00:55.38 | try | excellent |
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| 00:57.46 | try | @epony, have you fooled around with opencl, on your AMD hardware? |
| 00:57.52 | epony | yep.. and that combined with a secondary VGA monitor from the same cheap video card, with 3D acceleration for media playback, sets the base line |
| 00:58.19 | epony | nope |
| 00:58.47 | try | I'm interested in how it compares to CUDA, in terms of development effort |
| 00:59.40 | epony | these cards are too weak, I think they don't have the double float etc |
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| 01:05.37 | epony | specs says OpenCL 1.2 supported |
| 01:06.55 | Tom-_ | i'm really excited about Wayland. it seems superlative to me |
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| 01:09.27 | try | @epony I've been reading about gcc BRIG (HSA IL). That sounds maybe like an alternative to OpenCL? |
| 01:10.27 | try | https://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/cauldron2015?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=mjambor-hsa-slides.pdf |
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| 01:13.23 | try | ... that might be only for APUs |
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| 01:24.53 | tfgbd_ | What is an APU |
| 01:24.57 | tfgbd_ | Sounds like marketing |
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| 01:26.03 | darkmeson | Is the rationale behind the aggressive move to silently, forcibly move people off of sysv init to systemd after having purged the packages they'd need to revert the change documented anywhere, by chance? |
| 01:26.34 | darkmeson | tfgbd_: it's what AMD calls their version of GPU that's integrated into the CPU |
| 01:27.31 | darkmeson | So, yes, a marketing term. I just call it "anticompetitive", but at least AMD has a reasonable enough GPGPU core to base it on (ATI's) |
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| 01:30.27 | darkmeson | To everyone else: as far as my question goes, I realize that probably comes off as intentionally inflammatory, and while I fully expect no one will even respond, it's just something I have to ask to be fair |
| 01:30.52 | whislock | You're right, it sounds intentionally inflammatory. |
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| 01:32.12 | darkmeson | I've been blasting them for it ever since I discovered it since it's more aggressive a move than even the most bleeding edge distros dream of by all outward appearances, but maybe there's a good reason |
| 01:32.14 | darkmeson | maybe not |
| 01:33.06 | darkmeson | All I have to do is go through the motions in earnest, and I can keep doing what I'm doing with a clear conscience until/unless someone provides evidence to the contrary |
| 01:33.59 | bustero | i just installed buster on my laptop' s 256 GB SSD, what do i need to do about trimming? |
| 01:34.20 | darkmeson | usually, just add 'discard' to the fstab entry for your FSes that support it |
| 01:35.06 | whislock | darkmeson: Essentially, two packages required for Debian to run using sysvinit are unmaintained. |
| 01:35.18 | darkmeson | and/or run fstrim from cron periodically, if you're the sort to obsess about negligable performance and longevity impacts |
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| 01:35.47 | whislock | A cursory Internet search can find discussion to that effect. |
| 01:36.02 | darkmeson | whislock: that explains the motivation, but not the reason for the series of aggressive actions |
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| 01:36.26 | brianherman | whislock: does xfs support discard |
| 01:36.29 | whislock | motive, n., a reason for doing something |
| 01:36.37 | darkmeson | This IS Debian we're talking about, so it's about the last one that one would expect to go all Mr. Hyde on us |
| 01:37.11 | whislock | brianherman: Not entirely certain why I'm being asked directly. |
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| 01:37.20 | darkmeson | especially in decidedly abjectly undebian fashion, no less |
| 01:37.40 | brianherman | ooops wrong person my bad |
| 01:37.58 | darkmeson | brianherman: try mount -o remount,discard on it and see if it complains |
| 01:38.05 | brianherman | ok |
| 01:38.06 | brianherman | thanks |
| 01:38.07 | epony | tfgbd_ you're one step closed to a nomination for a title in the Useful Comments Awards ceremony 2019 in the section "one liner noise" |
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| 01:38.19 | darkmeson | I *think* it does, but xfs doesn't support shrinking, so I haven't been able to use it in a long time |
| 01:38.48 | whislock | AFAIK, XFS supports discard, though there are arguments to be made for discard vs. periodic (cron) trim. |
| 01:39.04 | darkmeson | that'd be the negligable gains and obsessing bit ;) |
| 01:39.14 | brianherman | according to archlinux it does https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_state_drive |
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| 01:39.37 | darkmeson | also, it's probably going to be highly device and maybe even model-dependent, so ymmv either way |
| 01:39.38 | whislock | darkmeson: More like data corruption issues, if I recall correctly. Some SSD controllers don't correctly handle discard. |
| 01:40.34 | darkmeson | brianherman: btw, if your fs is on luks, you'll have to add it to the relevant /etc/crypttab entries too |
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| 01:40.51 | whislock | Even Debian's own documentation does not recommend using discard as an fstab option. |
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| 01:41.06 | brianherman | at work i use xfs, lvm2, and luks |
| 01:41.12 | darkmeson | just be aware that discarding on crypto potentially hurts security |
| 01:41.18 | ryouma | my brain is not working well rignt now. does the randomness problem in buster apply to booting, or to only booting machines that run openssh? https://daniel-lange.com/archives/152-hello-buster.html |
| 01:41.51 | darkmeson | (especially on SSDs, due to wear-levelling) |
| 01:41.51 | epony | darkmeson I'm interested in reading the full scope of your observations on the topic you scratched (moves and changes), do you have something posted online or would you rather share here? |
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| 01:42.53 | epony | (just curiosity, no need to go into a debate) |
| 01:43.06 | darkmeson | epony: I provided about all I know already, and I'm essentially stuck here atm due to issues with an RCA 2-in-1's i915 support and browsers |
| 01:43.28 | epony | oh, ok |
| 01:43.46 | darkmeson | Which is to say that I did a routine update one day only to find that I'd been silently switched to systemd in the meantime |
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| 01:44.23 | darkmeson | Well, no problem, I thought. It's my bad for not figuring out that convoluted process to pin packages and something I installed dragged it in |
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| 01:44.57 | darkmeson | ...except it happened on several installations at about the same time, AND I discovered all of the old packages had been removed from ALL of the repos |
| 01:45.01 | epony | Yeah, I've seen this happen with other upgrades and re-installs too, should be mentioned in depth in the release notes and accompanied with some ease of migration quick start guides etc.. typically |
| 01:45.58 | darkmeson | At first I wrote it off as being just one of those hazards of unning on testing, but debootstrap'ed installations of older versions showed it to be an issue across the board |
| 01:46.03 | ryouma | to put my q in different words, do all machines potentially take hours to boot, or just ones that serve ssh? |
| 01:46.27 | brianherman | ryouma what i have never had a machine take hour to boot |
| 01:46.38 | darkmeson | at that time, there wasn't any mention of discussion of it in the search results either. I just manually traversed several mirrors and found no signs of the packages whatsoever |
| 01:46.44 | epony | ryouma do you have a problem with the hostname / dns setup? |
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| 01:47.12 | ryouma | i have no problems. i do not want to have problems. |
| 01:47.30 | ryouma | brianherman: see release notes. |
| 01:47.34 | epony | I meant to say, delays in boot time happen sometimes due to DNS.. |
| 01:47.38 | darkmeson | epony: biggest takeaway there is that it happened MID-RELEASE. That's something not even bleeding edge distros do if they can help it |
| 01:47.42 | ryouma | epony: randomness |
| 01:47.52 | ryouma | like urandom |
| 01:48.19 | ryouma | darkmeson: wasn't the pinning man page wrong at one point? |
| 01:48.35 | ryouma | (on the trim issue i have been running without trim/discard for a long time now, because i didn't have the energy to zero the whole thing and update the firmware just to permit it. it is not dead yet. the issue with crypt and discard i thuoght was something like "we know what fs you use muahahaha". which didn't seem impressive to me. but i could be wrong, as they are adamant.) |
| 01:48.39 | darkmeson | ryouma: just to be clear, you know it's SPECIFICALLY an entropy-related issue? And these aren't vms we're talking about? |
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| 01:49.56 | darkmeson | I wouldn't know about the manpages. I usually have to look it up online since apt never gained the ability to just 'apt-get pin' like some of the other PMs have |
| 01:49.58 | ryouma | darkmeson: yes i know it is specifically entropy, and that it has somethign to do with systemd. but idk if it is a problem in all booting potentially. |
| 01:50.16 | ryouma | and yes i am not talking about vms |
| 01:50.56 | darkmeson | That rules out the two things I was thinking of then (systemd's infinite waits and lack of virtio rng) |
| 01:51.24 | ryouma | rules out? systemd is default. confused. |
| 01:51.34 | darkmeson | that first one is one of the really, REALLY stupid things about systemd btw |
| 01:51.44 | ryouma | i have not upgraded |
| 01:52.01 | ryouma | idk why systemd needs randomness |
| 01:52.06 | darkmeson | no init should EVER infinite wait by default. especially since we can't just hit 'i' to interactively skip it anymore |
| 01:52.43 | ryouma | can't disagree |
| 01:52.58 | ryouma | neverr knew i |
| 01:53.21 | darkmeson | then again, it's the same mentality that spawned the apt/dpkg's policy that scriptlets must always succeed |
| 01:53.54 | darkmeson | that always made debian and derivatives a real pain when the root was on nfs or other novel places |
| 01:54.12 | ryouma | i am a humble home user |
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| 01:54.51 | darkmeson | It looks like there's a sizeable #systemd on this network btw |
| 01:55.17 | ryouma | ok maybe i will ask there. i presume it isn't mordor. |
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| 01:55.35 | darkmeson | The systemd people have problems being standards-compliant, and their logic is usually very...strange |
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| 01:56.04 | epony | if you nail the goals, it becomes understandable (desktoysation) |
| 01:56.06 | darkmeson | so I couldn't hazard a guess there if it's actually systemd and not sshd or something else needing entropy to generate certs or the like |
| 01:56.17 | epony | (or apple envy) |
| 01:56.22 | cyberb01 | hey Sr. How's it going?? |
| 01:56.55 | darkmeson | epony: things like systemd wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem if we were capitalizing on virt concepts like driver domains |
| 01:57.09 | themill | darkmeson: do you have a debian support question we can help you with? |
| 01:57.18 | epony | don't know, I'm a physicist |
| 01:57.29 | ryouma | as a user, i get fuddlified by things like mime types more than i do by systemd |
| 01:57.50 | darkmeson | Instead, they want to push systemd on us at the baremetal level where developing, non-standards-compliant software such as itself can inflict the most damage and elicit the most free work from the community for the glory of the architects |
| 01:58.18 | epony | darkmeson your points are valid |
| 01:59.15 | epony | I think time will either improve on the state of the usefulness, or result in a competing improvement rewrite (with potentially other quirks but at least solving sysV this time for real) |
| 01:59.24 | darkmeson | shorter form: the Qubes OS approach (appvms) and/or MINIX3 approach (nearly everything in userspace, somewhat similar to microkernel approaches) is the actual way forward |
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| 01:59.57 | darkmeson | the rest is just an unnecessary time sink that'll make GNU/Linux (more of) the new Windows |
| 02:00.28 | epony | darkmeson the last point is actually the real goal post (nailed it) |
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| 02:00.57 | darkmeson | We can actually do Qubes-like things with Debian, but it can only be as stable as (say) a Xen configuration with a simple init at the baremetal |
| 02:02.00 | darkmeson | Linux is working its way toward the latter, albeit in a slightly different way (pvops, UML, etc - kernel nesting, essentially) |
| 02:04.10 | brianherman | i like qubes os approach i wish they could get it working with kvm though |
| 02:04.14 | darkmeson | epony: and as far as systemd goes, it was totally reinventing the wheel. we already had things like runit, monit, etc and had for a long time |
| 02:04.35 | ryouma | i am getting no answers, and i am in no hurry, so i will just stick with stretch for an indefinite time and maybe the problem will get fixed, i guess. no big deal. |
| 02:04.58 | ryouma | or i will install that haveged thing |
| 02:05.12 | ryouma | (as long as it does not affect luks) |
| 02:05.16 | darkmeson | ryouma: I guess you could replace the sshd with a script wrapper that dumps and strace to a file on permanent storage somewhere and see where it stalled |
| 02:05.23 | ryouma | i do not run ssh |
| 02:05.52 | ryouma | i just wanted to make sure if i upgraded that it would boot |
| 02:06.30 | darkmeson | that's always up in the air with systemd too. especially because of the infinite wait thing |
| 02:07.21 | darkmeson | also get in the habit of the habit of adding 'nofail' to anything not critical to be mounted at system boot |
| 02:07.23 | ryouma | that was my q |
| 02:07.55 | epsilon | i hate systemd for failing bring up network services on bootup, especially vpn or interfaces |
| 02:08.11 | epsilon | didn't happen with init |
| 02:08.30 | ryouma | i have nofail on boot home big. but i think it does not stop the thing where systemd does not boot if a disk is not avail. |
| 02:08.35 | darkmeson | Personally, between the network managers causing so many problems and systemd's nonsense, I ended up inadvertently reinventing the old network management and sysv init in rc.local |
| 02:08.49 | ryouma | oh i have it on swap also |
| 02:08.51 | themill | feel free to take this elsewhere, thanks |
| 02:09.11 | ryouma | were my questions off topic? |
| 02:09.16 | darkmeson | which, of course, I have to sentry with a dot lock file, because I have to also have an @reboot in the system cronttab to guarantee it fires |
| 02:09.26 | themill | ryouma: no, you're not actually getting answers, however |
| 02:09.27 | epsilon | network manager is first thing i uninstall usually |
| 02:09.40 | darkmeson | for some reason, systemd also doesn't like to reliably run rc.local when it's enabled, and no, that's not Debian-specific, sadly |
| 02:09.50 | annadane | i sort of trust debian to patch the more annoying parts of systemd but... *shrug* |
| 02:10.37 | darkmeson | epsilon: network manager wasn't too bad, until you start using openvpn, tinc, and other tunnel users that create their own interfaces. then it freaks out (long-standing bug reports, and still unfixed afaik) |
| 02:11.24 | darkmeson | annadane: I think they were the first to disable the dangerous defaults of systemd-resolved to google's dns, so I guess that says something |
| 02:11.42 | darkmeson | Unfortunately, no distro has done anything about the infinite wait problem afaik |
| 02:11.49 | themill | darkmeson: last request to stop spewing nonsense, thanks |
| 02:11.56 | darkmeson | so it's a sad necessity to know about the init=/bin/sh trick |
| 02:12.19 | epsilon | a collegue has ubuntu and I couldn't get network manager to establish simple openvpn tap connection, ended up teaching him how to do it in shell. It was a good lesson, still he wants to be a network admin |
| 02:12.29 | darkmeson | ...just to get in and remove an entry from /etc/systemd or similar just to make the system bootable |
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| 02:13.18 | darkmeson | epsilon: some people swear by wicd, but it and network manager both failed miserably on this rca 2-in-1 (intel's cherry trail SoCs that they refuse to support for some reason) |
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| 02:15.18 | darkmeson | basically, they're not smart enough to unload and reload the underlying modules when necessary (much less detect the "when necessary". even though pinging the configured gw works for 90%+ of use cases) |
| 02:16.25 | darkmeson | Sadly, it's been a recurring theme for the entire existence of wifi, and thus I've had to have my own "fixer" script daemonized to unblock it |
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| 02:16.55 | darkmeson | It wasn't until this system that I finally had enough incentive to bring all the bits together into a full replacement though |
| 02:17.30 | epony | darkmeson these issues are not unique to Linux or a particular distribution though (wifi and init systems) |
| 02:17.35 | darkmeson | A long-standing, unfixed issue in apparmor profiles for the tor system instance was the primary motivator for systemd-like solution |
| 02:18.45 | darkmeson | There again, no idea why it's such a problem to add /etc/tor/hidden_service allowances to the apparmor profile, but it's still unfixed on at least Debian and Ubuntu |
| 02:19.20 | epony | basically you describe a specific use case not ideally served or being the priority of the respective software, so your own custom solution proves 100% efficient in your case (same applies to custom system management in lieu of configuration / change management toolkits) |
| 02:19.46 | darkmeson | and yes, I'm picking on Debian (and Ubuntu) here, but that's the bits that relevant to this channel. If you want me to rant about Fedora, or OpenSUSE, or whatever, I could do that too. They've all given me reasons for this approach :) |
| 02:19.51 | themill | darkmeson: please report bugs using reportbug; #debian is not for bug reports |
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| 02:20.52 | darkmeson | epony: no, it's more simple than that. packages have maintainers, and hidden services are core to Tor. It stands to reason that anything reported that hinders the package's core functions would be fixed in a reasonably timely manner |
| 02:21.14 | darkmeson | themill: again, general apparmor issue, not related to apparmor itself |
| 02:21.20 | epony | darkmeson I've had to create and maintain custom scripts to reset interfaces and networking, and set it in a scriptable manner for various environments, and shell scripts are quite useful (as always) |
| 02:21.45 | themill | darkmeson: you are asking for a file to be in a package. It won't magically appear there on its own |
| 02:21.54 | darkmeson | there's no reporting for that and a blackbox bureaucracy preventing doing more than air grievances if/when it's applicable to the topic at hand |
| 02:22.20 | darkmeson | themill: as I said, it's a long-standing issue that was reported ages ago and still exists |
| 02:22.27 | themill | bug number? |
| 02:22.52 | darkmeson | can't really get that for you atm. as I said, a browser will kill this thing (i915 bugs) |
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| 02:26.08 | darkmeson | It's been pretty...interesting...just trying to get one tweaked to run on a 2G systen without killing it from OOM and disk thrashing |
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| 02:30.11 | darkmeson | I'm probably going to have to revise the Xephyr/Xnest portion of my sandboxing solution to hide some features and/or resort to Xrdp or Xvnc, but that'll likely require a lot larger, contiguous block of time than I had today |
| 02:32.41 | darkmeson | I guess to sum it all up, Piling abstraction layers on abstraction layers for portability and stability is a trap we all fall into even once we know better. |
| 02:33.55 | darkmeson | The intention wasn't to paint a bad picture of Debian, specifically, but to remain as topical as possible. At least as much of a motivation in my abstractions was to hide away differences in the way distros handle things since I've historically liked to distro-hop a lot |
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| 02:39.36 | darkmeson | Then I stuck with OpenSUSE and Ubuntu for the longest time, and used Debian on baremetal since it was stable and could be extremely minimalist (because complexity at the baremetal == more reboots, which should never happen) |
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| 02:40.08 | annadane | i think my distro hoppin' days are over |
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| 02:40.41 | darkmeson | rather, rebooting baremetal shouldn't happen. And be glad if you can't identify with that, because it means you're either too young to identify with it, or you don't deal with excruciatingly slow reboots from disk arrays with staggered spinup, etc |
| 02:42.06 | epony | darkmeson I've ran various OSes concurrently for different work loads and tasks sets, typically 3 at a time, now reduced to 2, for more than 10-15 years each. I've never had a problem with reboots and have no problem rebooting as often as weekly and sometimes daily. |
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| 02:42.35 | darkmeson | I'm getting a little out of that mindset with these embedded things we're using now and their fast nand and eMMC interfaces, but we're still not quite there yet with process checkpointing and so forth, and that interruption to the workflow is a big problem of its own |
| 02:42.54 | darkmeson | epony: note that I said the baremetal. |
| 02:43.10 | epony | unreliable boot up and system ready state is an ultimate problem |
| 02:43.14 | darkmeson | Rebooting a vm is lightning quick since everything effectively remains in ram |
| 02:43.51 | epony | I was referring to the host OS :-) |
| 02:43.53 | darkmeson | well, as long as systemd doesn't infinite wait on some random thing that isn't coming back, anyway :) |
| 02:44.20 | epony | Should be carefully isolated, reported, fixed.. reliable boot up is a necessity. |
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| 02:45.04 | andmyaxe | question about the stretch->buster upgrade: do I need to do anything special when /etc/apt/sources.list was generated by cloud-init? it has a comment at the top saying that "modifications made here will not survive a re-bundle" |
| 02:45.14 | epony | darkmeson how are you using X nesting? |
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| 02:48.54 | darkmeson_ | epony: and that's why my first employer in my professional career had a system that hadn't been rebooted since I moved to high school |
| 02:49.00 | darkmeson_ | ^_^ |
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| 02:50.03 | darkmeson_ | 15 YEARS of uptime, and I got the honor of shutting it down. And even then, it was only shut down because we were moving on up to a better facility |
| 02:50.54 | darkmeson_ | The funny part is that it was running an ancient version of Fedora of all things |
| 02:51.33 | uptime | "honor"??? |
| 02:51.46 | darkmeson_ | excuse me, I guess it was still redhat back then |
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| 02:51.56 | darkmeson_ | It was redhat 6.x iirc |
| 02:53.36 | darkmeson_ | uptime: don't get me started. I also crashed their primary dev machine with a simple, recursive script with a faulty condition because they couldn't be bothered to let me impose some sane limits |
| 02:54.06 | annadane | i do enjoy #debian storytime |
| 02:54.54 | darkmeson_ | It works as well as about anything when testing out new hardware, I guess |
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| 02:55.56 | epony | darkmeson_ I actually recall installing and running RH 4-9 and it was one of the systems used these days at work.. |
| 02:56.14 | darkmeson_ | annadane: Today might not have been the best example of it, and this will probably come of as a bit narcissistic, but people with questions definitely want me around |
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| 02:57.01 | darkmeson_ | and btw, channels like this can be reasonably expected to be high traffic in one form or another, and idle conversation (that isn't TOO wild) serves to keep those of us with the answers closer when someone DOES pop in |
| 02:57.01 | epony | But the long uptime is considered a failure waiting to happen any moment, without a successful boot up after it due to hidden hardware boot up failure. |
| 02:57.29 | darkmeson_ | annadane: so if there's some specific breach of protocol, feel free to air that instead of that passive-aggressive crap |
| 02:57.40 | annadane | what? i'm not being passive aggressive |
| 02:57.43 | darkmeson_ | otherwise, /ignore the people talking and move on |
| 02:57.46 | annadane | i legitimately enjoy stuff like this |
| 02:58.05 | darkmeson_ | see, now that comes off as disingenuous |
| 02:58.14 | ryouma | either irony or sincerity. not passive aggression. was my take. |
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| 02:58.34 | darkmeson_ | keep in mind that we can't see the nonverbals, so we're all effectively asberger's sufferers here |
| 02:58.47 | epony | :-) |
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| 02:58.51 | darkmeson_ | all we can do is pattern-match, and that's the pattern you matched in my data banks ;) |
| 02:59.19 | epony | quick name 5 short word |
| 02:59.28 | annadane | dog cat pig house tire |
| 02:59.28 | epony | s |
| 02:59.40 | darkmeson_ | epony: they thankfully had spare hardware at the ready, but the lack of updates was far more of a problem |
| 02:59.52 | epony | darkmeson_ yeah |
| 03:00.14 | epony | those years were.. difficult for RH in terms of reliability and security |
| 03:00.15 | darkmeson_ | I wasn't supposed to have access, and I never told them, but they had a gaping hole for me to get in through on the intranet side |
| 03:01.13 | darkmeson_ | In hindsight, I probably should have said something, but they wouldn't even let me isolate the corporate network from the guest network, impose 802.1x on the ethernet ports in the commons, or the like |
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| 03:01.35 | themill | darkmeson_: please take idle chatter elsewhere, ##chat perhaps |
| 03:01.36 | epony | darkmeson_ you fixing it would have probably closed the other guy(s)' "sikrit" begdor |
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| 03:02.05 | darkmeson_ | They'd just hand-wave it away as we have more important concerns, despite my protests about how little of my "precious" time it'd actually take to implement |
| 03:02.08 | epony | (which is what I would have done immediately on the spot, no time wasted) |
| 03:02.21 | darkmeson_ | themill: fair enough, in this case |
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| 03:03.05 | darkmeson_ | the point was that I would've expected something like Debian to hit 15 years uptime, but redhat/fedora always having been various levels of bleeding edge rarely lasted months for me |
| 03:03.30 | darkmeson_ | (and I know a goodly bit of what I do just for the fact of avoiding reboots at all costs) |
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| 03:05.27 | darkmeson_ | epony: as it turns out, they had a massive data breach that gained media attention < 10 years ago, but (thankfully) I'd parted ways long before then, so no reflection on me |
| 03:07.28 | darkmeson_ | unlike situations like the Debian one I lead off with, where I defended their original decision to move to systemd only to have them prove the opposition totally right in the most brutal way possible :/ |
| 03:09.02 | epony | darkmeson_ good for you, depending on the role and maintenance mode for the respective set of systems, reboots may be part of the review and continuous reliability model, so.. don't be so fixated in a certain set of operation modes, but allow flexibility and assess for most appropriate strategy (and look for new ideas from other systems and methodologies, there's always something new or nice to learn and apply where actionable / meaningful). Rigidity is |
| 03:09.02 | epony | not an optimum or an advantage. |
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| 03:10.34 | epony | As for systemDesktop, probably that has disturbed your learned ways and practical approaches.. so I sympathise with that ;-) |
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| 03:10.57 | darkmeson_ | whelp, looks like one drop in several hours of this and other interactive, highly network-centric processes, so r8723bs on this Z3735F-based 2-in-1 is doing better than my toshiba satellite does witha primo intel chip. pretty impressive, considering the sdio code is still pretty fresh |
| 03:12.36 | darkmeson_ | epony: definitely get that, but I'm in a position to reciprocate by saying that flexibility can just as easily be a double-edged sword |
| 03:12.47 | epony | yep, agreed |
| 03:13.48 | darkmeson_ | I've always been more of a generalist turning polymath, who just so happened to know a lot about Linux since it was developed alongside me way back when |
| 03:13.56 | epony | (to a certain extent) for example, distro-hopping is not flexibility, but desktop trials / search for some other package management method |
| 03:14.35 | darkmeson_ | That being said, I still couldn't tell you how to use awk, because I learned sed, shell scripting, and know a myriad of other ways to do the same thing, even if potentially less efficient |
| 03:14.55 | annadane | actually speaking of systemd i had nvidia-persistenced.service (i think) fail earlier when installing nvidia-driver, no idea what that's about, but it seems to be fine now |
| 03:15.30 | epony | sounds familiar, probably learned on the job (no formal study of the tool out of personal interest) |
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| 03:16.31 | darkmeson_ | I was actually hired for my first big-time professional gig for my Linux "hobby", and my degree actually counted against me a little |
| 03:16.34 | magyar | are debian repositories for buster down? |
| 03:17.05 | epony | you can get by with principally generic awk recipes ;-) but without a quick start guide to the init system.. |
| 03:17.10 | darkmeson_ | any of those of you who are college age that are following along should pay attention to this part, because... |
| 03:17.33 | darkmeson_ | professional experience trumps degrees in technical fields every day of the week |
| 03:17.53 | darkmeson_ | so that shiny degree that cost so much was pointless and useless after I got my five years |
| 03:18.11 | darkmeson_ | and it's not hard to get on the books experience through charities and so forth, either |
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| 03:18.32 | annadane | magyar, seems to be ok for me, change your mirror? |
| 03:18.34 | epony | remember tldp :-) |
| 03:18.36 | ecbrown | magyar: not sure what "debian repos" you mean -- i just apt updated and it was successful |
| 03:18.43 | annadane | i'm using deb.debian.org, which is a redirector |
| 03:18.51 | ryouma | um, does debian allow you to have 15y uptime? don't kernels get security patches? |
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| 03:19.09 | darkmeson_ | looks like it's fine here, according to debootstrap |
| 03:19.41 | ryouma | my impression was if kernel upgrade, then reboot at some point |
| 03:19.56 | darkmeson_ | magyar: I've had a few open hotspots and other networks that blocked me for some reason. That's one of my better reasons for keeping Tor around |
| 03:20.11 | magyar | annadane: ecbrown: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/cHtQZVAS0rzWOZzp8mksiA |
| 03:20.19 | ecbrown | ryouma: why would a computer *not* be able to run for 15 years (in principle) |
| 03:20.24 | darkmeson_ | Regular connection doesn't work, switch to Tor. Tor doesn't work, and then you know it's either down, or someone is up to something nasty |
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| 03:20.41 | magyar | darkmeson_: no hotspots, just regular internet |
| 03:20.55 | annadane | magyar, buster/updates, you should use security.debian.org |
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| 03:21.15 | ryouma | ecbrown: kernels have something like system call um, offsets, and running code will need to have those in sync. so you have to reboot. or so. is what i heard. |
| 03:21.21 | darkmeson_ | magyar: the same principle applies nonetheless. Tor forces a different route, so anything problematic in the current one may not be that way |
| 03:21.24 | ryouma | unless there is hotswapping of kernels |
| 03:21.29 | annadane | deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main |
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| 03:21.57 | epony | ryouma see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel#Live_patching |
| 03:21.58 | themill | (or deb.debian.org) |
| 03:21.59 | darkmeson_ | technically, changing mirrors should work too, but Tor is the easier/lazier solution, so I mostly just go with that |
| 03:22.22 | ryouma | epony: ok, so i guess you can in this distro. did not know. |
| 03:22.48 | epony | ryouma on the BSDs, you recompile and reboot to load and run the new kernel, no such tricks |
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| 03:23.30 | magyar | annadane: same errors |
| 03:23.40 | annadane | even after an apt update? |
| 03:24.12 | themill | !show sources.list magyar |
| 03:24.12 | dpkg | magyar: Please pastebin the contents of your /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list. The easiest way to do this is to pastebin the output of: head -v -n -0 /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*} |
| 03:24.44 | darkmeson_ | epony: mostly true. netbsd has had rump kernels for forever, and those are about like the uml gymnastics I used to use to avoid reboots |
| 03:25.23 | magyar | themill: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/1m21PP~fizEuHIF9yEVwQQ |
| 03:26.42 | themill | magyar: can you also pastebin the output of "apt update" |
| 03:28.21 | epony | darkmeson_ yeah, my systems are set to be reboot tolerant, in fact a reboot issues an OS re-install in place (performs auto-upgrades) |
| 03:28.53 | magyar | themill: so apt update seems to work >> https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/O1k1uUUUN82iQTFGQt-V6A |
| 03:29.01 | magyar | but apt-get update was failing |
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| 03:29.09 | themill | magyar: there is no difference |
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| 03:29.49 | magyar | hmm, not sure, but I was getting the errors that I pasted before from apt-get update |
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| 03:29.52 | themill | (well, this error is not a difference; apt prompting you about the Suite change is a difference but that was not what you had earlier) |
| 03:29.56 | darkmeson_ | epony: sounds a bit like what the overlayroot package is for |
| 03:30.08 | themill | magyar: the error you had before was because you had a broken sources.list |
| 03:30.33 | magyar | themill: the last time I did an apt-get update was a week ago and it all worked fine |
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| 03:31.17 | themill | magyar: you might have just hit an ftp.us.d.o mirror that happens to also have security on it by luck. It would only be luck, however. |
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| 03:32.01 | magyar | themill: could be, it seems to work now, so I'm a happy camper, thank you |
| 03:32.53 | themill | np |
| 03:34.53 | epony | darkmeson_ haven't heard of it yet, using mostly the generic methods provided in OpenBSD here for auto-upgrades.. it's trivial to setup and with a minimum of effort you can ensure a known state (matching the compiled distribute ready sets) |
| 03:35.27 | epony | would be fun to learn how to do the same with Debian |
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| 03:38.16 | annadane | ugh, can you really not middle click stuff to open in tabs in pcmanfm |
| 03:38.18 | annadane | come on |
| 03:39.05 | annadane | it's my favorite file manager otherwise |
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| 03:39.42 | epony | I have it installed here, but not using it most of the time.. |
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| 03:42.12 | annadane | oh wait |
| 03:42.18 | annadane | yes i can, just not on the sidebar |
| 03:42.36 | annadane | still slightly annoying but less so |
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| 03:54.00 | darkmeson_ | epony: overlayroot just automates a few steps. Most of it boils down to things like: overlay /sysroot overlay lowerdir=/,upperdir=/.sysroot.rw,workdir=/.sysroot.work,nofail,private,X-mount.mkdir=0700 0 0 |
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| 03:54.31 | darkmeson_ | That's an example pulled from the fstab on this 2-in-1 |
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| 03:55.42 | darkmeson_ | That just uses / as a read-only branch with all changes from /sysroot being written to /.sysroot.rw, of course. |
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| 03:57.09 | darkmeson_ | Replacing actual / would just push that into the initramfs during the initial setup and add a couple steps (like making sure all fs dependencies are mounted somewhere first), but that's trivial enough with the modularity in about any distro today |
| 03:58.11 | darkmeson_ | Just a tiny scriptlet dropped in the right place, an initramfs regeneration, and maybe kcli doctoring and grub conf regeneration |
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| 03:59.34 | darkmeson_ | I'm mostly using that example on here as part of a larger solution to approximate certain android and XPrivacy security features on lowmem systems were virt other techniques is too impractical |
| 04:02.46 | darkmeson_ | It could be used with lxc to test for updates too though. That being said, it'd be the masochistic option compared to lvm, btrfs, etc snapshotting, but it's possible |
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| 04:05.20 | darkmeson_ | overlayroot is mostly intended for live media afaict, but it (or the technique anyway) would/could grant the same sort of snapshotting in a storage stack-agnostic way, and I know I would've loved to have had it back when I was building clusters |
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| 04:07.42 | darkmeson_ | (maintaining just enough state in just the right way was always one of the bigger challenges, technologically speaking) |
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| 04:12.48 | Henry151 | hi #debian. I have just sat down at my laptop to run an apt search "thing" and got a response "The value 'stable' is invalid for APT::Default-Release as such a release is not available in the sources" |
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| 04:13.44 | Henry151 | i am running 9.9 stretch |
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| 04:14.28 | Henry151 | any idea why this would have happened? i saw a headline saying something about a new version of debian coming out so i assume related.. any help resolving much appreciated, i do not want to upgrade yet until i get home because i am currently traveling and cannot afford to have anything not work at the moment |
| 04:14.59 | Henry151 | (tho already something seems not to be working even though i didn't try to update or upgrade) |
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| 04:18.47 | ckur13 | need to update your apt repository, then you can get debian 10 edit /etc/apt/sources.list change stretch to stable, save the file and run apt update & apt dist-upgrade |
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| 04:30.38 | Henry151 | um, i tried a sudo apt update... |
| 04:30.49 | Henry151 | i did not want to upgrade to debian 10 yet |
| 04:31.02 | Henry151 | do i have to in order to download the program i'm trying to download? |
| 04:31.36 | nemo_nemo | exit |
| 04:31.42 | Henry151 | i really do not want to attempt to upgrade at all on this slow internet connection while i'm away from home, i just needed to install vncviewer to access one of my remote machines |
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| 04:33.55 | winircuser-745 | Hello! I am upgrading to Buster from Stretch. So I issued `apt upgrade` and it got completed successfully. But then I issued `apt dist-upgrade`, all the packages got downloaded and it started unpacking/installing stuff so I locked my XFCE session (Ctrl-Alt-L) and now I see only a blinking cursor on screen. Here's the screencast https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOxctqH5C4Ur4e7zLhAk2PqD2VQkHZhBXlJts20AUeaHPBZaUZGQlunPv6n9WCSVg/photo/AF1QipMf97FL |
| 04:34.35 | winircuser-745 | I am not able to shift to any of the vts too (Atrl-Alt-F{x}) |
| 04:34.38 | darkmeson_ | blinking cursor means either X11 died and couldn't be regenerated, or you ended up on a different VT somehow |
| 04:34.38 | jmcnaught | Henry151: you have to take specific steps to upgrade from Debian 9 to 10 (stretch to buster), it won't happen if you upgrade your packages as long as your sources.list is correct |
| 04:35.20 | darkmeson_ | winircuser-745: in situations like that, I usually try to ssh to it to see if it's even alive |
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| 04:35.37 | jmcnaught | Henry151: your sources.list should point to 'stretch' and not 'stable'. If you have 'stretch' you stay on Debian 9. |
| 04:35.53 | Henry151 | ok, thanks jmcnaught |
| 04:36.05 | winircuser-745 | darkmeson_: I think X is upgrading in the background. Now my strategy is to wait it out till the dist-upgrade gets completed. But without any screen I have no idea how much to wait... |
| 04:36.05 | darkmeson_ | winircuser-745: assuming it is, you'd probably want to try "sudo systemctl restart graphical.target" unless you have unsaved work or something |
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| 04:36.39 | Henry151 | jmcnaught: i'm looking at my sources.list and it's saying stretch everywhere, nowhere does it say stable |
| 04:37.07 | winircuser-745 | darkmeson_: SSH sounds good! Thanks! BTW do you know how much time dist-upgrade should take? |
| 04:37.15 | darkmeson_ | I don't think I've ever had it kill my existing X11 session, but solid plan nonetheless. Suggestion for worst case remains the same though |
| 04:37.25 | Henry151 | this https://termbin.com/v0zy is my sources.list, it's a little messy and has some unneeded duplicate entries i think but it was working fine until today |
| 04:37.29 | jmcnaught | I'd call a mid-progress dist-upgrade 'unsaved work'. |
| 04:37.46 | darkmeson_ | upgrades can take hours or days, depending on a variety of factors |
| 04:37.56 | winircuser-745 | jmcnaught: I'm not going to abort the dist-upgrade mid-way |
| 04:38.13 | winircuser-745 | I just don't know how much time to wait |
| 04:38.23 | darkmeson_ | (not the least of which being that dpkg likes to fail in the middle because someone didn't account for specific conditions and scriptlets are treated as totally pass/fail |
| 04:38.31 | jmcnaught | winircuser-745: I know, you're trying to do the opposite. Does your computer have a disk activity light? |
| 04:38.45 | jmcnaught | winircuser-745: can you ssh in from another machine? |
| 04:38.49 | darkmeson_ | also because they stall on user input at various points unless you passed the right options |
| 04:39.24 | winircuser-745 | jmcnaught: Sadly, disk activity light went off 3-4 months back :( |
| 04:39.41 | darkmeson_ | that being said, never attempt a dist-upgrade in a terminal directly on X11. Do it in a screen session if nothing else so it doesn't get hosed if your X session does |
| 04:39.44 | Henry151 | is there somewhere else in my machine that i need to make sure it says "stretch" and not "stable", other than /etc/apt/sources.list ? |
| 04:39.54 | winircuser-745 | winircuser-745: Yes, I have a friend's Windows box from which I can SSH |
| 04:40.58 | winircuser-745 | jmcnaught: After SSH what should be the next step? Checking `top` for apt-get progress? |
| 04:41.27 | darkmeson_ | Henry151: everything else should be updated for you, save for that and entries in sources.list.d |
| 04:41.59 | jmcnaught | Henry151: you're fine, you're not going to accidentally upgrade to buster |
| 04:42.06 | Henry151 | i'm fixing entries in sources.list.d now |
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| 04:42.26 | Henry151 | i'm not trying to upgrade at all i just want to make apt install things work again |
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| 04:42.34 | Henry151 | so far it is not working |
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| 04:43.03 | jmcnaught | Full commands used and complete output in a paste will help people help. |
| 04:44.47 | Henry151 | https://termbin.com/9crf |
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| 04:45.22 | Henry151 | thanks fo r the help you've already given and any more you are able to provide |
| 04:46.35 | winircuser-745 | jmcnaught: Yes, I have a friend's Windows box from which I can SSH |
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| 04:46.50 | Henry151 | the error message about mp3splt has been happening for ages but i was still able to update, instlal, etc so i didn't bother fixing it, i can just delete the mp3splt line from my sources.list i don't even need it any more. |
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| 04:47.06 | Henry151 | /instlal/install |
| 04:49.51 | Henry151 | it looks to me like i need to change the value of "APT::Default-Release" from "stable" to "stretch" but i'm not sure how that would be done if it is even what i need to do. |
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| 04:51.07 | jmcnaught | Henry151: I would try 'sudo apt update' again with all of the thirdparty repos commented out first. |
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| 04:52.03 | jmcnaught | winircuser-745: I guess that looking for the apt-get process is maybe the best you can do, I don't know of a way you can reattach to that session unless you were using screen or tmux |
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| 05:02.52 | winircuser-745 | jmcnaught: I have one small query. I connected that Windows box to the Debian machine using LAN cable. Now how do I find the IP of that Debian machine to put in PuTTY? |
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| 05:22.40 | Henry151 | https://termbin.com/5b7q still getting the same message after removing third-party repos... |
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| 05:24.29 | Henry151 | winircuser-745: this may be helpful https://superuser.com/questions/1005693/getting-ip-address-of-a-direct-connected-computer |
| 05:26.12 | Henry151 | winircuser-745: specifically "The best method would be to add a router with DHCP in the mix" -- you may have a hard time doing it with a direct lan cable between the two machines, but if you plug them both into the same router, you can look at the router admin page and see the ip address for connected devices |
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| 05:29.30 | Henry151 | jmcnaught: I'm seeing /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00local:APT::Default-Release "stable" when i run grep -ri stable /etc but i'm a little afraid to tinker with something that i don't understand, can you help me to know if changing that "stable" to "stretch" might be a good idea? |
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| 05:29.50 | OS-51870 | #offsec |
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| 05:30.40 | elwisp | Henry151: i believe stable points to buster now that buster is out. So i believe thats why you are seeing these errors |
| 05:31.20 | Henry151 | elwisp: yea, i'm trying to adjust my config to fix it up so that my machine points at stretch instead of stable |
| 05:31.25 | jmcnaught | Henry151: I don't have that file /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00local and its name to me says that you created it locally |
| 05:31.54 | elwisp | Henry151: can you paste the content of that file? |
| 05:34.06 | Henry151 | it only consists of that one line pasted in the grep output above -- i just searched my bash history and see that i created it while trying to install some backport, probably following some guide, a very long time ago |
| 05:34.35 | elwisp | change it to stretch if you want to stay on stretch then |
| 05:34.41 | Henry151 | i just adjusted it to say "stretch" instead of "stable" and it seems to have fixed my issue, in case someone else encounters similar problems i think that did the trick |
| 05:34.58 | elwisp | :) |
| 05:34.58 | Henry151 | thanks, yeah, i'll be upgrading as soon as i get home to my fast internet, very excited |
| 05:36.09 | Henry151 | i just can't afford to get stuck with a broken system here 200 miles from home with slow internet and no secondary machine in case i screw this one up somehow. |
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| 05:49.08 | nekr0z | Hello all! I've upgraded to buster and have no sound since. /proc/asound/cards has the card I want, but pulseaudio doesn't seem to see it. Can you advice where to look next? |
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| 05:52.33 | diogenes_ | nekr0z, try a new user. |
| 05:52.50 | nekr0z | diogenes_: have already |
| 05:53.33 | diogenes_ | pavucontrol? |
| 05:53.58 | nekr0z | diogenes_: pavucontrol sees the other three cards but not the one in question |
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| 05:56.18 | diogenes_ | nekr0z, is it listed here: aplay -l |
| 05:56.28 | nekr0z | Solved! 'sudo apt remove timidity' and pulseaudio immediately recognized the card. Wonder what's so different in buster compared to stretch in that regard. |
| 05:56.37 | nekr0z | diogenes_: yes, it was listed there |
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| 05:56.56 | dob1 | hi, I would lie to start at boot postgresql AFTER openvpn |
| 05:56.59 | dob1 | *like |
| 05:57.18 | dob1 | I am looking at /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/postgresql.service |
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| 05:58.01 | nekr0z | Will need to look into timidity compatibility more since I do need it installed, but the problem is located now so the path is clear. God, I hate Poettering! ;-) |
| 05:58.56 | OS-51870 | :Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services - see https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration |
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| 05:59.01 | OS-51870 | what does it mean |
| 05:59.27 | dob1 | you need to register your nickname |
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| 06:00.07 | OS-51870 | I registered it yesterday |
| 06:00.26 | winircuser-745 | Hello! I am upgrading from Stretch to Buster. I have already issued the dist-upgrade which made my display blank. So now I have SSHed from another machine since I don't want to force power off the update. Now After SSH into the said Debian box I see 0% CPU activity for dpkg and apt-get. I think it's expecting some user input which I can't see due to blank display. |
| 06:00.33 | dob1 | OS-51870, you are not logged |
| 06:00.58 | diogenes_ | OS-51870, /msg nickserv identify password |
| 06:01.38 | OS-51870 | <PROTECTED> |
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| 06:02.04 | diogenes_ | without space |
| 06:02.17 | dob1 | OS-51870, it's better that you change your password |
| 06:02.35 | winircuser-745 | How do I get my display back so that I can proceed with the update or if that's not possible how do I answer the dpkg/apt-get questions using SSH connection so that upgrade can complete successfully? |
| 06:02.57 | Ticho | dob1: you'll have to make a unit override in /etc/systemd/system/ and add the extra dependency there |
| 06:03.10 | uptime | OS-51870: Now you'll want to do /msg nickserv set password NewUniquePasswordHere |
| 06:03.10 | Wulf | winircuser-745: kill the processes and continue through ssh? |
| 06:03.25 | winircuser-745 | BTW this is how the display look (2 sec): https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOxctqH5C4Ur4e7zLhAk2PqD2VQkHZhBXlJts20AUeaHPBZaUZGQlunPv6n9WCSVg?key=ZE9UZmFfbzgtNnpnMlFxejQtNDMzRDFvTGxadXdn |
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| 06:03.34 | Ticho | dob1: see "man systemd.unit" and example 2 near the end there |
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| 06:04.06 | winircuser-745 | Wulf: It will not Break the Debian, right? https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian |
| 06:04.28 | Wulf | winircuser-745: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Don.27t_blindly_follow_bad_advice |
| 06:04.53 | Wulf | winircuser-745: no, of course not!!111 |
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| 06:05.31 | Wulf | at least not too badly. It can always be repaired. Somehow. |
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| 06:05.57 | Wulf | winircuser-745: injecting input into your running processes is not impossible, but probably hard. |
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| 06:08.17 | winircuser-745 | Wulf: Ah okay. I am on my way to kill the upgrade process but I think it's going to break the Debian :| |
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| 06:23.54 | andy| | Hey. I have a problem with dummy interfaces in debian buster. In earlier versions the dummy interface was created when `modeprobe dummy`. I have an `auto dummy0` interface in /etc/network/interfaces.d/dummy.conf but that doesn't seem to do anything anymore. I have to manually add the interface with `ip link add dummy0 type dummy` and then run `ifup -a` to add the configuration to the interface. Any clues here |
| 06:23.56 | andy| | what might be the problem? |
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| 06:29.16 | winircuser-745 | Wulf: So I killed the running apt-get and dpkg processes. Then I proceeded with apt upgrade and it complained about broken install (as expected) and suggested to run `apt --fix-broken install`. Running that threw this file being locked error: http://paste.debian.net/1090667/ |
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| 06:29.41 | Wulf | winircuser-745: sounds like a process is still running |
| 06:29.46 | darkmeson_ | and|: 'lsmod |grep dummy". if that doesn't show anything, "modprobe dummy". if it errors, you don't have the module, otherwise, lsmod again. still nothing? check /etc/modprobe.d for blacklist lines for it |
| 06:29.52 | Wulf | winircuser-745: fuser /var/cache/debconf/config.dat |
| 06:30.05 | winircuser-745 | Wulf: Or may be it was killed before it could release the lock? |
| 06:30.08 | darkmeson_ | (and/or install /bin/true-like lines) |
| 06:30.15 | winircuser-745 | i.e. dpkg which I killed |
| 06:30.23 | winircuser-745 | Wulf: ^ |
| 06:30.30 | Wulf | winircuser-745: linux usually releases locks automatically when noone is there to hold it anymore. |
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| 06:31.01 | themill | winircuser-745: is there a debconf or ucf process still running? |
| 06:31.14 | darkmeson_ | linux doesn't, but apt and friends definitely do |
| 06:31.16 | klys | andy|, grep CONFIG_DUMMY /boot/config-`uname -r` |
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| 06:31.23 | winircuser-745 | Wulf: I have experienced contradictory behavior with apt lock before'. After abruptly killing the apt process |
| 06:31.47 | winircuser-745 | darkmeson_: So what should be done in this situation? |
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| 06:32.35 | darkmeson_ | winircuser-745: I could've sworn I saw someone say it already, but run fuser against the lock to see if a process still has it open |
| 06:32.44 | darkmeson_ | if not, you just delete it manually |
| 06:32.59 | andy| | darkmeson_: dummy module is loaded. I have tried running `modprobe -r dummy` and `modprobe dummy` but no dummy interface is created. `lsmod | grep dummy` returns `dummy 16384 0`. |
| 06:33.04 | themill | no, do not delete the lock file |
| 06:33.10 | uxfi | hi |
| 06:33.14 | uxfi | IS debian 10 Buster out? |
| 06:33.19 | Wulf | uxfi: yes. |
| 06:33.19 | uxfi | officially? |
| 06:33.22 | Wulf | uxfi: yes. |
| 06:33.24 | uxfi | ok |
| 06:33.33 | darkmeson_ | alternatively, run apt-get dist-upgrade or similar. it'll almost certainly erorr out immediately, but it might clean things up automatically if there's no actual dpkg holding the lock |
| 06:33.36 | uxfi | Thank you.. On jessie here |
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| 06:33.38 | Wulf | winircuser-745: oh, if it's a separate lock file, well... not sure then. |
| 06:33.45 | uxfi | I will upgrade tommrow thank you mr Wulf |
| 06:33.50 | Wulf | uxfi: welcome. |
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| 06:34.21 | winircuser-745 | darkmeson_: fuser /var/cache/debconf/config.dat returned nothing |
| 06:34.39 | themill | winircuser-745: is there a debconf or ucf process still running? |
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| 06:36.34 | Wulf | winircuser-745: did you run that as root? |
| 06:37.02 | winircuser-745 | themill: ps aux| grep debconf returned this: http://paste.debian.net/1090671/ |
| 06:37.29 | blackflow | I wonder why Wayland was chosen as default. It's still not ready. That mouse is lagging and stuttering to the point it becoming unusable. |
| 06:37.34 | darkmeson_ | winircuser-745: that's...not the lock file... |
| 06:37.46 | themill | winircuser-745: that says that it's showing you a needrestart prompt and that is safe to kill and move on |
| 06:38.05 | themill | darkmeson_: orly. |
| 06:38.17 | Wulf | winircuser-745: is there a "-new" file, and what does fuser return there? |
| 06:38.43 | Wulf | sysopen(my $fh, $this->{filename}."-new", ⦠flock($fh, LOCK_EX | LOCK_NB) ⦠error("$this->{filename}-new is locked by another process |
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| 06:39.12 | Wulf | oh, then your paste should've said "-new" |
| 06:39.52 | winircuser-745 | Wulf: Previosuly I hadn't executed fuser with sudo but now I did and now `fuser /var/cache/debconf/config.dat` says 2318 |
| 06:40.08 | Wulf | good. Kill that process. |
| 06:40.08 | winircuser-745 | I think that's the pID of running process I gotta kill? |
| 06:40.10 | themill | which is needrestart as I said |
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| 06:40.15 | darkmeson_ | themill: ok, maybe. I could've sworn it created a file with literal .lock in the name, but I must be getting my wires crossed with another pm |
| 06:40.44 | darkmeson_ | at least, according to what I'm seeing dpkg-reconfigure holding open |
| 06:41.25 | winircuser-745 | themill, Wulf thank you! Looks like it fixed the issue! |
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| 06:41.51 | themill | winircuser-745: btw screen or tmux are useful tools for these sorts of upgrades -- next time ;) |
| 06:42.24 | winircuser-745 | themill: I have been meaning to learn one of em. Which one do you suggest? |
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| 06:42.58 | zoredache | tmux is the newer choice, supposedly a bit better written and maintained |
| 06:42.58 | andy| | darkmeson_: it doesn't seem like my /etc/modprobe.d/dummy.conf `options dummy numdummies=8` is respected. When I run for example `modeprobe -r dummy && modprobe dummy numdummies=1` the interface is populated... |
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| 06:43.01 | darkmeson_ | tmux is the superior one if you haven't learned one yet, but it's default key combo couldn't be worse |
| 06:43.06 | meisteris | Hello, what's up with jessie apt key id AA8E81B4331F7F50? |
| 06:43.09 | darkmeson_ | s/it's/its/ |
| 06:43.32 | darkmeson_ | just changes it to screen's ctrl+a since that's actually reachable |
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| 06:43.34 | meisteris | this morning I've ran apt-get update and it said, that there is no public key available |
| 06:43.36 | meisteris | W: There is no public key available for the following key IDs: |
| 06:43.36 | meisteris | AA8E81B4331F7F50 |
| 06:43.57 | meisteris | tried to get it from key server |
| 06:43.57 | meisteris | apt-key adv --keyserver keyring.debian.org --recv-keys AA8E81B4331F7F50 |
| 06:44.10 | meisteris | But it can't be retrieved |
| 06:44.10 | meisteris | gpgkeys: key AA8E81B4331F7F50 can't be retrieved |
| 06:44.19 | meisteris | any hints please? :) |
| 06:44.22 | RedMercury | I guess now buster is released there's no point in filing bugs for stretch? |
| 06:44.55 | themill | meisteris: which release of Debian is this? |
| 06:44.58 | Wulf | RedMercury: depends on the bug |
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| 06:45.03 | RedMercury | I have a terrible memory leak in ksmserver, I can get it to leak about 200mbyte/sec |
| 06:45.04 | meisteris | themill jessie |
| 06:45.16 | meisteris | 8.8 |
| 06:45.17 | RedMercury | just by running vlc capturing a usb video device |
| 06:45.24 | themill | meisteris: and you've also got buster in your sources.list? |
| 06:45.24 | RedMercury | and it doesnt go away when i kill vlc |
| 06:45.47 | meisteris | no, no buster in my sources |
| 06:45.59 | themill | meisteris: can you pastebin your sources.list? |
| 06:46.05 | meisteris | sure :) |
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| 06:46.27 | zoredache | RedMercury: probably would depend on the bug. If there is a security bug, it should probably be reported. Or a critical data lose bug. A minor functionality bug that is corrected in the newer release, or upstream probably wouldn't get fixed. |
| 06:47.06 | RedMercury | well, when i capture it kills my machine due to oom, so kinda data loss? |
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| 06:47.31 | RedMercury | the process is now up to 28g virt heh |
| 06:47.32 | meisteris | themill, here it is (along with apt-key list): |
| 06:47.33 | meisteris | https://pastebin.com/nxXDf6Ed |
| 06:47.38 | themill | meisteris: does apt tell you which Release file is signed with that key? (because jessie's isn't) |
| 06:48.05 | meisteris | let me see... |
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| 06:48.43 | themill | meisteris: ahh, jessie/updates is |
| 06:48.56 | andy| | darkmeson_: case closed: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1042452/file-etc-modprobe-d-dummy-conf-ignored-on-ubuntu-18-04 |
| 06:48.58 | themill | meisteris: which version of the debian-archive-keyring package do you have? |
| 06:49.07 | RedMercury | I guess I'll update to buster and see if it repros |
| 06:49.17 | themill | meisteris: (jessie/updates is signed with both keys) |
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| 06:49.29 | meisteris | debian-archive-keyring 2014.3 |
| 06:49.50 | themill | meisteris: hmm you should have 2017.5~deb8u1 |
| 06:50.12 | meisteris | OK, I should try to update it then :) |
| 06:50.45 | themill | yes, that will contain the stretch security key |
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| 06:51.43 | meisteris | Yes, all good now with 2017.5~deb8u1 version of debian-archive-keyring |
| 06:51.49 | meisteris | Thank you very much themill! :) |
| 06:51.53 | zoredache | does the debian key server have the bugged keys? IE keys affected by that mass signing thing? |
| 06:52.45 | themill | meisteris: is apt-get update now happy? |
| 06:52.49 | themill | zoredache: no |
| 06:52.51 | meisteris | yes :) |
| 06:52.59 | themill | meisteris: very good! |
| 06:53.49 | meisteris | Yes, one very happy apt it is \o/ |
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| 07:00.34 | ThiefMaster | did something change in the debian 10 openstack image when it comes to SSH? i rebuilt my test machine (which worked fine with debian 8 and 9) using the debian 10 image, and can't ssh to it (connection is closed right after "SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT sent" when doing ssh -v) |
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| 07:01.59 | ThiefMaster | hm, in the console I see "Failed to start Execute cloud user/final scripts. See 'systemctl status cloud-final.service' for details." - but of course i can't run that command since i can't get an interactive shell... |
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| 07:05.13 | mohsen_1 | Hi. what software do you use on windows to burn debian iso imges on cd? |
| 07:05.24 | zoredache | rufus |
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| 07:06.29 | themill | we regularly see rufus fail to burn images correctly |
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| 07:06.39 | themill | mohsen_1: on cd or on usb? |
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| 07:07.13 | mohsen_1 | themill: on cd |
| 07:07.20 | Wulf | mohsen_1: I don't. I install my computers through PXE. Or, if that's hard to do, USB. |
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| 07:07.51 | mohsen_1 | zoredache: rufus is for writing on usb, according to their site: http://rufus.ie |
| 07:08.22 | zoredache | mohsen_1: right, sorry my mistake. I don't think I have used an optical disk in like 5 years |
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| 07:08.37 | mohsen_1 | Wulf: yeah that's what I regularly do too, but I don't have access to a usb drive now |
| 07:08.40 | zoredache | at least not for installing. Can't windows just write an ISO directly? |
| 07:08.42 | Wulf | mohsen_1: try "Nero Burning Rom". Not sure if it's still any good, but I like that name. |
| 07:08.56 | zoredache | I thought that was built in these days |
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| 07:09.24 | zoredache | can't you just right click on the iso? |
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| 07:10.11 | mohsen_1 | Wulf: yeah I would go for Nero |
| 07:10.17 | mohsen_1 | zoredache: it can only mount it |
| 07:10.25 | zoredache | be aware some programs (like 7zip) will steal the iso association. https://superuser.com/questions/1281568/windows-10-burn-iso |
| 07:10.39 | zoredache | but the functionality does exist in Windows to right it directly |
| 07:10.43 | zoredache | write* |
| 07:10.47 | Wulf | mohsen_1: https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#record-windows |
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| 07:11.37 | mohsen_1 | Wulf: thanks |
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| 07:21.50 | miskatonic | may apparmour be uninstalled with aptitude on buster? |
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| 07:22.29 | blackflow | miskatonic: yeah, you can remove it, but why would you do that? security is good. |
| 07:22.35 | meisteris | zoredache https://www.imgburn.com/ is pretty good on writing iso images to disks on windows. |
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| 07:24.18 | Wulf | miskatonic: If a particular program gives you trouble, you can disable apparmor for it. |
| 07:24.30 | Wulf | miskatonic: or you can fix the policy. It's not *too* complicated. |
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| 07:25.54 | Wulf | I believe that debian changed its logo several years ago. Where can I find the old logo? I tried searching the web, without success. |
| 07:26.38 | miskatonic | may a user fix policies of apparmor, or does this require the intervention of a superuser? |
| 07:26.52 | Wulf | miskatonic: I think you need to be root. |
| 07:27.14 | Wulf | but it would make sense to me if users could set policies for their own programs. |
| 07:28.23 | miskatonic | security usually annoys me and destroys usability, as seen in the case of firefox who went down the hill with its paranoia |
| 07:29.10 | Wulf | miskatonic: google used their market power to promote chrome. |
| 07:29.13 | blackflow | miskatonic: not for a lack of reason. |
| 07:29.31 | Ticho | security will always be at odds with usability |
| 07:30.29 | zoredache | Up to you of course, but tools like apparmor can protect your system in some cases. |
| 07:30.48 | miskatonic | chrome has always been unusable, firefox became unusable with Quantum, which is just a cheap clone of chrome |
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| 07:32.01 | Wulf | miskatonic: I don't see how firefox is (or ever was) unusuable. Sure, it had some performance issues. But currently I'm very happy with it. |
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| 07:33.01 | blackflow | waah web extensions waaah |
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| 07:34.02 | miskatonic | all necessary extensions of firefox became unavailable with the abandon of XUL, especially pentadactyl |
| 07:35.12 | Wulf | Yeah, it took some time until extension authors released new compatible versions |
| 07:35.27 | meisteris | chrome engine is only usable in the form of vivaldi browser, but it's ugly in terms of licence and privacy. As it is partly proprietary skin on top of partly proprietary engine, which is owned by google. Still, firefox is better, if one is prepared to dive into about:config for a while :) |
| 07:35.41 | zoredache | does anyone happen to know why monit was dropped from buster (even though it still seems to be in sid) |
| 07:36.14 | zoredache | I am probably looking in the wrong place, but I am not seeing anything in the bug reports page or anything |
| 07:36.35 | Wulf | zoredache: http://debian.2.n7.nabble.com/Bug-927775-monit-CVE-2019-11454-CVE-2019-11455-td4519403.html maybe |
| 07:37.17 | Wulf | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=927775 |
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| 07:38.04 | zoredache | Wulf: thanks |
| 07:38.24 | Wulf | https://tracker.debian.org/news/1041792/monit-removed-from-testing/ |
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| 07:40.20 | zoredache | I saw that last tracker.debian link. Wasn't sure what that meant. Thanks for the other two though |
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| 07:41.12 | jelly | ,v monit |
| 07:41.13 | judd | Package: monit on amd64 -- jessie: 1:5.9-1+deb8u1; jessie-security: 1:5.9-1+deb8u2; stretch: 1:5.20.0-6; sid: 1:5.25.3-1 |
| 07:41.21 | jelly | ,why is monit not in testing |
| 07:41.22 | judd | No package named 'is' was found in buster/amd64. |
| 07:41.25 | jelly | !why is monit not in testing |
| 07:41.26 | dpkg | monit is not in testing for the reasons listed in https://qa.debian.org/excuses.php?package=monit |
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| 07:43.29 | themill | #927775 |
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| 07:45.27 | colo-work | hmm, after my upgrade to buster, redshift ("Adjusts the color temperature of your screen"; not the amazon postgres fork) seems not to have an effect any more. |
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| 07:46.46 | miskatonic | oh, the package list on debian.org still does not list packages for stable buster. this must be fixed |
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| 08:00.24 | afidegnum | hello, i m mixing the command syntax, what's the correct for certbot ? | certbot -d domain.com --certonly | is that correct ? |
| 08:01.42 | blackflow | afidegnum: no manpage to check that? |
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| 08:24.34 | sunzero | where is kernel-package in debian? |
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| 08:24.46 | sunzero | pkg |
| 08:25.17 | blackflow | sunzero: linux-image-amd64 for example |
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| 08:25.23 | sunzero | no |
| 08:25.32 | blackflow | then what are you asking for |
| 08:25.41 | sunzero | blackflow: i mean for make-kpkg |
| 08:26.53 | blackflow | sunzero: linux-source-<version> |
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| 08:28.04 | sunzero | blackflow: from which package come make-kpkg i mean |
| 08:28.07 | sunzero | comes |
| 08:30.02 | blackflow | sunzero: it comes from `kernel-package` package, so back to square one. what are you asking really? |
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| 08:31.02 | sunzero | yes it's there but i cant get kernel-package i am with buster now |
| 08:31.06 | sunzero | E: Package 'kernel-package' has no installation candidate |
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| 08:31.54 | blackflow | indeed there is none for buster..... huh.... |
| 08:32.07 | sunzero | blackflow: why |
| 08:32.19 | Habbie | can confirm |
| 08:32.20 | blackflow | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=925411 |
| 08:32.21 | Habbie | it does not exist in buster |
| 08:32.38 | BenNZ | sunzero: you dont use make-kpkg when compiling a kernel anymore its been depreciated |
| 08:33.27 | BenNZ | sunzero: use make -j`nproc` bindeb-pkg instead |
| 08:33.36 | blackflow | right, so linux-source and use its Makefile targets. |
| 08:33.48 | BenNZ | sunzero: assuming thats what you were trying to do |
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| 08:39.29 | aLeSD | hi all |
| 08:39.48 | aLeSD | how could I install python3.6 in jessie ? |
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| 08:41.08 | solrize | i'm confused, this has happened to me twice on separate machiens. i upgrade a stretch machine to buster by fixing sources.list, apt-get update, apt-get upgrade, apt-get dist-upgrade, reboot and it still seems to be running stretch even though sources.list is modified, run upgrade and dist-upgrade again gets a lot more stuff |
| 08:41.21 | solrize | is that weird? |
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| 08:48.17 | sunzero | BenNZ: depracated for 10? |
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| 08:50.26 | sunzero | BenNZ: in debian 10.0 buster |
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| 08:51.25 | BenNZ | sunzero: https://wiki.debian.org/BuildADebianKernelPackage |
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| 08:56.26 | themill | aLeSD: you don't. If you need newer tools, use a newer release. (You could feasibly do this in a virtualenv, but perhaps it's time to upgrade to a supported release?) |
| 08:56.49 | aLeSD | ok. Tahnks |
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| 09:02.34 | Matt12345 | Hello |
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| 09:03.13 | Wulf | aLeSD: pyenv |
| 09:05.32 | Matt12345 | I upgrade a lxc container from jessie to stretch then stretch to buster but I still have deprecated interface name like eth0. networkctl doesn't offers ens3 interface. How could I switch to previous name interface to the new one please? |
| 09:06.23 | Wulf | I prefer deprecated names over "predictable" interface names... |
| 09:07.01 | netcrash | I have a machine not setup by be that has a vlan interface named "vlan32" since the vlan is 32 , how did the guy placed the interface name like this? |
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| 09:07.26 | Matt12345 | I read the documentation here https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#migrate-interface-names. I remove 70-persistent-net.rules and /etc/systemd/network/50-virtio-kernel-names.link but I can't rebuild the initrd. |
| 09:07.39 | Matt12345 | Wulf, you are right. |
| 09:08.08 | Wulf | Matt12345: why can't you rebuild it? |
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| 09:08.45 | Matt12345 | because I am in a container, it doesn't make sense I think. The host is on Jessie but uses the new interface name. |
| 09:08.54 | blackflow | Matt12345: there's no initrd in the container. You sure those names aren't coming from the host? iirc there's no udev in lxc? and it's udev that does the renaming. |
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| 09:09.02 | inch | Matt12345: Do you have the name set to eth0 in /var/lib/lxc/*/config |
| 09:09.07 | inch | On the host side. |
| 09:09.49 | blackflow | netcrash: interfaces can be renamed. see the "renaming" section of the interfaces(5) manpage |
| 09:10.18 | Matt12345 | blackflow, Thank you for your help, I have no reference to eth* in /var/lib/lxc/*/config |
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| 09:12.01 | Matt12345 | This is my /var/lib/lxc/*/config file https://opportunis.me/paste/?61161141c2c2f24f#qSLCstGcEi4Z7DoctWUI0WqBcYSGI4PWklFK2wh8bzg= |
| 09:12.08 | netcrash | blackflow: ok , thank you |
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| 09:12.46 | Matt12345 | *a part of it |
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| 09:14.19 | blackflow | Matt12345: set whatever lxc.network.name you want in that config |
| 09:15.07 | Matt12345 | lxc.network.name = ens3 works! |
| 09:15.08 | blackflow | note that those are by default veth interfaces from a bridge set up by LXC, those aren't your hardware NICs |
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| 09:16.32 | Matt12345 | So, if I understand properly, I do not need to switch from the predictable interface name because, as we are talking about a container, I can define it by myself. |
| 09:16.38 | Matt12345 | Am i correct? |
| 09:16.48 | Matt12345 | *switch to the predictable interface name |
| 09:17.30 | blackflow | Matt12345: predictable naming is done on the host, by udev, for hardware NICs. That does not affect your containers. those are bridges and virtual nics. |
| 09:18.09 | blackflow | eg. bridge br0 will always be br0. veth0 will always be veth0, there's no udev rules to rename those, as those are always predicatbly the same. |
| 09:18.10 | Matt12345 | blackflow, thank you very much for your help, I understand better! |
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| 09:18.55 | blackflow | the whole point of renaming is to avoid naming confusion when there are multiple NICs. eth0 means nothing. One boot it can be NIC 1, and another it could be NIC 2 |
| 09:19.29 | Junior | Am I late for the Buster party? |
| 09:19.29 | blackflow | so "predictable" really means using PCI attributes, MACs and other parameters, to predictably attach one name to a physical device. |
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| 09:20.15 | Wulf | blackflow: problem is, those "predictable" names aren't predictable at all. When I see a random piece of hardware with only one nic, I was able to predict that the name is "eth0". |
| 09:21.00 | Wulf | Now I would need to e.g. get the next best interface with a default route |
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| 09:21.17 | blackflow | Wulf: actually it's predictable. You can inspect it with udevadm info, and the follow the default rules established by default NamePolicy which is kernel,database,onboard,slot,path in that order |
| 09:21.37 | blackflow | so you will know exactly which of those will be used for the name on next boot. |
| 09:21.39 | sunzero | BenNZ: heh u mean bindeb-pkg |
| 09:21.56 | sunzero | replace a make-kpkg |
| 09:22.03 | sunzero | BenNZ: from which package is bindeb-pkg |
| 09:22.35 | Wulf | blackflow: okay, what is the predictable name of my laptop's ethernet interface? |
| 09:22.42 | Wulf | blackflow: exactly, you don't know. |
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| 09:23.58 | blackflow | Wulf: don't be dense. you know very well what I'm talking about. |
| 09:24.16 | plantroon | omg those buster designs are so refreshing. The grub background for example :D |
| 09:24.17 | blackflow | but then who cares. feel free to use net.ifnames=0 if that suits you better. |
| 09:24.31 | Wulf | It should be called "stable" interface names. Because that's what they are. Not "predictable". |
| 09:25.06 | Wulf | "enp0s31f6" is the answer btw :) |
| 09:25.27 | blackflow | Wulf: if you showed me your udevadm info output for that NIC, I would've told you exactly which one would be used by default. |
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| 09:25.50 | Haohmaru | i want debian 10 too |
| 09:25.52 | Wulf | blackflow: what's the command? |
| 09:25.54 | Junior | plantroon: I have this problem installing Buster. Basic commands like 'usermod' or 'reboot'/'shutdown' don't work. The files are still there, it's just a problem with the PATH variable or something. Did you also have this or is it just me? |
| 09:26.17 | blackflow | Wulf: udevadm info /sys/class/net/<NIC> |
| 09:26.21 | Matt12345 | Junior, just you |
| 09:26.22 | jelly | Wulf, they're not even stable if you have mutable PCI layouts, like on many servers |
| 09:26.31 | mureena | https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/ |
| 09:26.33 | mureena | :) |
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| 09:27.22 | azeem | Junior: probably https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/460478/debian-su-and-su-path-differences ? |
| 09:27.36 | Wulf | blackflow: https://paste.debian.net/1090699/ |
| 09:28.05 | blackflow | Wulf: you have redacted the important bits. lol |
| 09:28.17 | plantroon | Junior: no such thing here |
| 09:28.35 | Wulf | blackflow: the mac address shouldn't be important, right? |
| 09:28.50 | Wulf | blackflow: and the resulting interface name is what you should deduce from the remainder of the output |
| 09:29.24 | blackflow | Wulf: you redacted ID_NET_NAME_PATH which is the path it'd probably use since there's no ONBOARD detail |
| 09:29.43 | blackflow | Wulf: the process is simple. Using the NamePolicy rules, you check them in order. first one to hit will be used. |
| 09:30.07 | Wulf | blackflow: and where does that name "enp0s31f6" come from? |
| 09:30.46 | blackflow | Wulf: you've redacted output, who knows what else you changed. so thanks for playing. |
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| 09:31.46 | Wulf | blackflow: I only changed what I marked as changed. |
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| 09:32.29 | blackflow | Wulf: you redacted ID_NET_NAME_PATH which is the path it'd probably use since there's no ONBOARD detail |
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| 09:33.07 | Wulf | blackflow: ID_NET_NAME_PATH=enp0s31f6 where does "enp0s31f6" come from? |
| 09:33.19 | Junior | I've done multiple installs now, it's weird. Maybe something's bugged with my iso but I didn't do anything with it. Meh ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 09:33.42 | Haohmaru | Junior did you run sha sum on it? |
| 09:34.18 | blackflow | Wulf: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.net-naming-scheme.html |
| 09:34.27 | Haohmaru | i've wasted loads of time and nerves on a broken .iso, then i check the sha sums |
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| 09:34.56 | mureena | blackflow: That's actually a logical way, not just predictable |
| 09:35.06 | blackflow | mureena: yup. |
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| 09:36.09 | blackflow | Wulf: so you see, it's very much predictable. But yea you have to plug it in first so the drivers and udev can construct the name from the rules given. |
| 09:36.39 | blackflow | if you only have one NIC and want it to always be eth0, use net.ifnames=0 in your kernel command line, problem solved. |
| 09:37.18 | blackflow | but if you had mutliple nics and wanted ethX, you better tie them down with custom udev rules based on their MACs. |
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| 09:38.18 | Junior | Haohmaru: *a cold sweat appears* lemme just... That's a good question |
| 09:38.40 | blackflow | Wulf: also, for extra internet points, write a .link systemd-networkd unit that matches the MAC and names it whatever way you want, it's even simpler than using udev rules. |
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| 09:39.02 | Haohmaru | i've had an .iso that broke after copying it over the network |
| 09:39.20 | mureena | To normal users this way to name things doesnât matter at all. People who deal with this stuff however should learn and deal with it. |
| 09:39.40 | Wulf | blackflow: I'm unable to parse my interface name even with the docs you linked me. On most of my system I simply disable that feature. In the rare case that I do have multiple interfaces, I used to use udev rules to give the interfaces nice names based on the mac address. I didn't setup such a system for quite some time now. |
| 09:40.29 | Junior | But did the ISO break completely or did you have something similar like me? |
| 09:41.00 | blackflow | Wulf: depends how buggy BIOS is. I've rarely seen ethX switching upon boot, but.... I _have_ seen it. always did the precaution of tying them down to MACs, until systemd came along which did it for me. |
| 09:41.34 | Haohmaru | Junior the installation was failing somewhere in the middle with no obvious clues |
| 09:42.10 | Haohmaru | on another one, it was saying that it can't read from the "medium", so i burnt it on 4 different CDs |
| 09:42.19 | Wulf | blackflow: On a router with 5 ethernet interfaces, I can't really remember where "eth3" goes to. |
| 09:42.24 | Haohmaru | that is, while installing packages |
| 09:42.59 | Haohmaru | so it depends where and how it's corrupted.. but just run sha sum on it and don't waste your time with broken ones |
| 09:43.01 | blackflow | Wulf: you can also give them semantic names, they needn't be mechanical like ethX or enpXsYZ |
| 09:43.06 | Wulf | exactly :) |
| 09:43.39 | jelly | colo-work, are you on wayland or xorg? |
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| 09:45.43 | colo-work | jelly, xorg. it appears that I can use it to manually _reduce_ color temperature, but not to _raise_ it... |
| 09:47.20 | blackflow | Wulf: in your case, the rule is "prefix [Pdomain] sslot [ffunction] [nport_name | ddev_port]" so en (for ethernet NIC) + p + 0 (PCI domain) + s + 31f6 (slot) . Now, en p and s are understandably, but why 0 and 31f6? That's BIOS determining. So that names is based on physical location (PCI slot) of the NIC on your motherboard. |
| 09:47.46 | blackflow | *slot 31 function 6 |
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| 09:49.14 | blackflow | Wulf: which means, what jelly suggested earlier, is if you (un)plug some other hardware somewhere, your BIOS might reorder something and poof the predictable name changed. But those are edge, buggy cases that should be fixed in the BIOS. |
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| 09:49.39 | blackflow | there were some bugs in systemd in the past too, but afaik those are fixed by now (unless moar crop up) |
| 09:50.13 | jelly | blackflow, if you merely plug a card, no. If you change how PCI bus layout looks, yes. |
| 09:50.42 | blackflow | jelly: there was a bug (and report on systemd GH) in the past where someone unplugged their nvidia GPU and NIC changed name. |
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| 09:50.52 | blackflow | I CBA to find it now, but I remember it vividly. |
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| 09:53.15 | Wulf | blackflow: oh, I didn't look at the table / assume it's the same as that long string above |
| 09:53.29 | jelly | eh, who knows whast kind of craziness consumer boards do |
| 09:54.04 | Wulf | So if I did a bios upgrade, the name could well change? |
| 09:54.18 | jelly | yes, that is a distinct possibility |
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| 09:54.41 | jelly | if you have a single wired card, you might as well stay on net.ifnames=0 |
| 09:54.52 | Wulf | The only benefit of that "predictable" naming scheme is that users are nudged into thinking about the interface names :-) |
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| 09:55.22 | blackflow | unfortunately. but also, edge and buggy cases. I'd say to be perfectly sure, match against the card's MAC and assign a name you want. via udev rules, or .link units. I haven't heard yet that a NIC could change its MAC by itself :) |
| 09:55.31 | jelly | Wulf, that's not the only benefit, but it's pretty useless for a single-wired-iface-and-nothing-else case |
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| 09:56.10 | jelly | Wulf, mostly it's there to make RedHat's idea of read-only / and read-only /etc work |
| 09:56.14 | Wulf | blackflow: not by itself, no. But if someone burns some of the eletronic fuses... :-) |
| 09:56.30 | jelly | other distros can suffer |
| 09:56.43 | blackflow | heh |
| 09:56.52 | mureena | What kind of user thinks about interface names lmao |
| 09:57.07 | mureena | Like a normal user |
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| 09:57.51 | Ecco | Hi! |
| 09:57.59 | Ecco | Apparently the "monit" package has been removed from buster? |
| 09:58.05 | Ecco | Is that so? If it is, why? |
| 09:58.15 | blackflow | jelly: yeah but as long as there's an option to stay with ifnames=0, no harm done :) |
| 09:58.15 | jelly | Ecco, it was buggy at the time of the release. |
| 09:58.21 | Ecco | ok |
| 09:58.22 | Wulf | https://tracker.debian.org/news/1041792/monit-removed-from-testing/ |
| 09:58.40 | Ecco | ok, how can I find this info without bothering you guys next tim? |
| 09:58.49 | Ecco | I've looked this up for 5 minutes before coming here :) |
| 09:58.55 | Ecco | (and of course, thanks a lot for the link!!) |
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| 09:59.13 | jelly | Ecco, tracker.debian.org/packagename is a good start |
| 09:59.19 | blackflow | people seem to think RH and systemd cabal are forcing anything. lolno. they just develop software. your distro maintainers (whom you should be blaming and yelling at) are guilty of building your distro the way it is ;) |
| 09:59.21 | aadam | I have downloaded windows 10.ISO how do I make bootable usb from debian to install windows using usb |
| 09:59.31 | Ecco | jelly: thanks |
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| 09:59.54 | Ecco | So it won't be part of buster? |
| 10:00.16 | jelly | blackflow, they are forcing a LOT of things, and Debian maintainers for systemd fix some of the dumber and more incompatible choices made by upstream |
| 10:00.26 | Wulf | Ecco: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?archive=0;dist=unstable;ordering=normal;repeatmerged=0;src=monit |
| 10:00.47 | Wulf | Ecco: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/monit |
| 10:01.31 | dgp | blackflow: It's like rolling a lot of core linux userland components into one upstream controller by redhat might be a bad idea or something.. |
| 10:01.38 | dgp | s/controller/controlled/ |
| 10:01.43 | blackflow | jelly: c'mon nobody forced anything on debian, but debian boards, members, maintainers. the same "upstream is forcing X" applies to anything. This wayland buggy thing for example which is for some reason default. the kernel upstream that wants everyone to ride the latest kernels and don't care much about LTS ones. |
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| 10:01.59 | jelly | blackflow, go read #debian-systemd and their mailing list. |
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| 10:02.13 | jelly | for the last 2-3 years. |
| 10:02.31 | blackflow | I've read it. and personally I don't have a problem with systemd. I just find it weird that anyone thinks upstreams are forcing anything. |
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| 10:03.42 | dgp | blackflow: what do you do when upstream makes breaking changes? |
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| 10:04.22 | jelly | blackflow, I'm not commenting on it being a problem, or whether it's suitable for a purpose, but if you track Fedora and RHEL7 and 8 you see there are design choices and default settings that are not necessarily optimal for other distros like Arch or Debian |
| 10:05.48 | blackflow | jelly: default settings that can be changed downstream? |
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| 10:06.44 | blackflow | dgp: over the years Debian has dropped packages that have proven to be often breaking, hard to maintain, insecure, abandonware, .... . |
| 10:06.46 | jelly | blackflow, the choice of builtin defaults is inherently "forcing" |
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| 10:07.24 | m1sosoup | @aadam: this isn't really a topic for this channel, but the only reliable way to do that i've found is WoeUSB, you can find it on Github |
| 10:07.32 | dgp | blackflow: yeah, good luck dropping something like systemd.. you are basically forced to pull in any changes they make or maintain your own fork |
| 10:08.35 | aadam | ok thanks |
| 10:08.48 | blackflow | dgp: what breaking changes are you thinking about btw? what did they do now? |
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| 10:09.43 | blackflow | jelly: I'd disagree, as long as it's reconfigurable run-time and/or a compile-time option that doesn't require complex code changes, patches, backports, ... |
| 10:09.48 | netcrash | Sorry for the newb question but, how can I name a interface of a vlan like vlan42 ? it's based on interface ens3 |
| 10:10.13 | dgp | blackflow: I'm not thinking about any in particular. You're saying distros aren't forced to do anything by upstreams but it's pretty clear in a lot of cases the only option other than doing what the upstream wants is to maintain your own fork |
| 10:10.13 | jelly | judd, bug 927775 |
| 10:10.14 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/927775 in src:monit (closed, security, upstream): «monit: CVE-2019-11454 CVE-2019-11455»; severity: serious; opened: 2019-04-23; last modified: 2019-06-17. |
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| 10:10.45 | blackflow | netcrash: did you look at the renaming section of interfaces(5) manpage like I told you? it couldn't be simpler. |
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| 10:11.05 | emilsp | so, on this new debian 10 thing, is there a way to get the non-esr version of firefox at all? |
| 10:11.10 | jelly | dgp, this is pretty much what distros have done for a while with different core components or important packages. |
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| 10:11.44 | jelly | emilsp, you can get the linux tarball from Mozilla and use that build if you need it. |
| 10:11.47 | dgp | jelly: yeah and it's a waste of man power than could be used actually making things work |
| 10:12.14 | jelly | dgp, I can only partially agree with that. |
| 10:12.35 | jelly | there have always been crazy upstreams, or dead upstreams. |
| 10:12.46 | emilsp | jelly: so https://wiki.debian.org/Firefox is outdated? |
| 10:13.04 | jelly | Debian has, at times, used forks of GNU libc, OpenOffice, and probably other things. |
| 10:13.12 | stefanos82 | since the latest stable release, I get no updates for my testing :/ |
| 10:13.17 | stefanos82 | is everything alright? |
| 10:13.34 | stefanos82 | skypeforlinux has updates, but when I "apt update", I see nothing |
| 10:13.52 | emilsp | skypeforlinux source is broken |
| 10:13.59 | jelly | emilsp, it is not. https://wiki.debian.org/Firefox#Firefox_Stable.2C_Beta_and_Nightly says exactly what I just suggested. |
| 10:14.37 | jelly | emilsp, "If you want to install Firefox Stable [...] on your Debian Stable, you can do it by following those steps." |
| 10:14.41 | emilsp | oh, I have to be on unstable to get non-esr versions. I missed that. |
| 10:14.59 | emilsp | Yep, thanks a lot :) I apologize for not being capable of any reading comprehension :/ |
| 10:15.25 | stefanos82 | ha! now it fetches the skype updates lol |
| 10:16.04 | jelly | emilsp, np, it happens |
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| 10:18.32 | blackflow | dgp: well, see, that's the distros "you had one job" thing. Otherwise what's teh point of distros if they'll all use upstream code and be literally, exactly all the same. |
| 10:18.57 | blackflow | so I won't share a tear if a distro has to spend time and money to adjust. it was their choice from day one. |
| 10:19.37 | jelly | blackflow, it's a matter of perspective. Anything that changes existing workflow or settings can be percieved as forced. Moreso if it does not have a clearly stated longterm reason. |
| 10:20.18 | blackflow | jelly: yeah but you can't blame RH for building software for themselves first, thinking of their own use cases first, "forcing" others to recompile with different options or even patches. |
| 10:20.42 | jelly | blackflow, sure I can. |
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| 10:21.06 | blackflow | because it works both ways. there was drama in gentoo few years ago when openrc had to change some binary names because debian -- downstream user of openrc -- asked them too, even though debian switched to systemd.... |
| 10:21.10 | jelly | I can think and say their ro / is a dumb idea from the start. |
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| 10:21.26 | AaronXu | can web sites see your mac address? |
| 10:21.30 | AaronXu | on debian/chrome |
| 10:21.58 | blackflow | jelly: I beg to differ. it has plenty of valid use cases. I use readonly / on my servers wherever possible. |
| 10:22.25 | jelly | blackflow, but you don't use Debian on them, or you switch to rw when patching. |
| 10:22.56 | Fox | #debian-offtopic anyone ? :) |
| 10:23.07 | jelly | right |
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| 10:24.14 | blackflow | jelly: I redeploy pre-made, updated ZFS datasets. :) |
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| 10:26.24 | han-solo | AaronXu: no |
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| 10:51.13 | colo-work | quick poll: what package are you people replacing ssmtp with when upgrading to buster? |
| 10:51.58 | blackflow | colo-work: dma |
| 10:52.30 | colo-work | interesting; I wasn't aware that one even existed :) |
| 10:52.52 | blackflow | been using it even before, as ssmtp is effectively abandonware for quite some time now. |
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| 11:03.22 | kreyren | any ETA on bullseye security? |
| 11:03.47 | blackflow | kreyren: on what? |
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| 11:04.25 | kreyren | blackflow, > E: The repository 'http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye/updates Release' does not have a Release file. -- and repository is not available on the mirror |
| 11:04.37 | kreyren | wait testing-security is not a thing right |
| 11:04.41 | blackflow | right. |
| 11:04.44 | kreyren | lol |
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| 11:05.39 | Junior | dpkg quit, oh no |
| 11:05.40 | dpkg | Junior: I give up, what is it? |
| 11:07.21 | Junior | No nothing, the thing just said you quit |
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| 11:12.01 | NetTerminalGene | how does ryzen 2400G work with buster? i mean its gpu |
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| 11:14.22 | Matt12345 | [nftables] Does someone interstand why I have ct state { established } drop in the configuration file am I still able to established a connection from the host? The input policy is set to drop. :( |
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| 11:14.57 | Matt12345 | [nftables] Does someone interstand why even if I have "ct state { established } drop" in the input part of the configuration file am I still able to established a connection from the host? The input policy is set to drop. :( |
| 11:16.08 | jelly | kreyren, testing does not get a security repo until very late in the release cycle, after the freeze |
| 11:16.45 | jelly | and even then it's just in preparation for stable-security |
| 11:17.09 | jelly | Matt12345, maybe ask in #Netfilter |
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| 11:18.19 | kreyren | jelly, yep forgot about it |
| 11:18.29 | kawaii | Patiently awaiting the 10.1 release so we can start using it in production at $work :) |
| 11:18.58 | colo-work | shouldn't you wait for 10.1's .1, to make it even more safe? |
| 11:19.10 | colo-work | (repeat-ad-infinitum) |
| 11:20.57 | mohsen_1 | what software do you use to create a debia USB installation media on windows? |
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| 11:24.24 | xenlo | Hi, Is there a way to avoid the debian-installer to use the public repo http://security.debian.org/debian-security? |
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| 11:24.36 | xenlo | P1ersson (~P1ersson@wlan-eduroam-130-237-240-11.su.se) a rejoint #debian y via PXE and netinstall with a preseed file. And in that preseed, there is only reference of my local repos. |
| 11:24.43 | xenlo | But even like that I see in the logs that debian-installer check package list from security.debian.org. |
| 11:24.50 | xenlo | So if my local repo is not fully up to date, it fetch newer package and my installs are not consistant. What I want to avoid. |
| 11:24.57 | tabakhase | mohsen_1 ive used YUMI in the past, but thats a whole multiboot-builder (but single exe) |
| 11:25.10 | tabakhase | there is prob even smaller stuff like etcher that would work just fine too |
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| 11:25.43 | jan6 | etcher is glorified dd with checksum checking ;P |
| 11:26.15 | humpled | https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#record-windows |
| 11:26.16 | mohsen_1 | tabakhase: can etche be used to flash debian cd to usb? |
| 11:26.16 | tabakhase | it has things to click on *shrugs* jan6 |
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| 11:26.48 | jan6 | mohsen_1: yes, at least I've done it |
| 11:26.52 | tabakhase | "Flash OS images to SD cards & USB drives, safely and easily." |
| 11:27.01 | pja | NetTerminalGene: Got one in the machine Iâm on right now. Works fine. |
| 11:27.33 | pja | IIRC there were a lot of teething troubles with early 4.X kernels, but the 4.19 in buster seems OK. |
| 11:27.46 | mohsen_1 | tabakhase: thanks |
| 11:28.19 | jelly | xenlo, disable internet access? |
| 11:28.48 | pja | xenlo: Feed the installer your own apt mirror list? |
| 11:29.14 | jelly | pja, they already did that <xenlo> So if my local repo is not fully up to date [...] |
| 11:29.53 | pja | xenlo: https://d-i.debian.org/manual/en.amd64/apbs04.html |
| 11:30.23 | pja | jelly: You can mirror the security repo as well IIRC. Or am I wrong about that? |
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| 11:30.44 | xenlo | jelly: No I can't disable internet access, and of course I provide my own apt mirror list via my preseed |
| 11:30.54 | jelly | pja, that's not the problem here, the problem is you can't tell d-i not to TRY accessing security.d.o at all |
| 11:30.55 | pja | xenlo: Does that mirror include security? |
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| 11:31.11 | EmleyMoor | I upgraded my router to buster, but it drops to the initramfs prompt because it can't find the logical volumes for partitions other than / and /boot. If I type vgchange -ay gw00b there and then Ctrl-D, it continues booting. How do I make sure, on future reboots, I don't have to do this? |
| 11:31.34 | xenlo | pja yes |
| 11:31.55 | jelly | xenlo, you can avoid setting default gateway in the network config, then |
| 11:32.03 | jelly | aand set it up afterwards |
| 11:32.23 | jelly | xenlo, or you can tell d-i to use a http proxy that only allows what you want to allow |
| 11:32.24 | xenlo | The only stuff not mirrored is the sources |
| 11:32.42 | jelly | there's more than one way to "disable internet access" |
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| 11:33.34 | jelly | NOTE: I have not tried setting a http proxy and testing whether d-i still tries to access mirrors directly. |
| 11:33.49 | jelly | Try it and see |
| 11:33.49 | xenlo | I need the right default gateway as the local mirror is not in the same subnet |
| 11:34.04 | jelly | xenlo, you can set up a route just for that and for your dns |
| 11:34.29 | jelly | but it's a bit messy as you need custom in-target commands |
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| 11:35.02 | xenlo | the DNSÂ sounds the easier in my case |
| 11:35.16 | xenlo | but still looks like an workaround |
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| 11:35.23 | EmleyMoor | (it seems I'm not the only one this has happened to) |
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| 11:36.34 | xenlo | So, jelly, you confirm me that there is no option in the preseed to tell the d-i to forget about the security public repo? |
| 11:36.36 | pja | EmleyMoor: What happens if you try updating the initramfs from the running system? |
| 11:37.00 | jelly | xenlo, I don't know of one |
| 11:37.29 | jelly | there's one only for the normal mirror |
| 11:37.47 | xenlo | I found that too |
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| 11:38.14 | xenlo | well I think to be sure I will have to dig in the source code⦠:-/ |
| 11:38.21 | xenlo | thanks jelly |
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| 11:38.45 | EmleyMoor | pja: The question is not "What happens if I do" but "What do I update?" |
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| 11:39.11 | jelly | xenlo, it's probably easier to set up a squid proxy and try things than to hack up d-i, but YMMV |
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| 11:39.44 | pja | EmleyMoor: Yes, Iâm saying: try updating the initramfs. Iâve had a similar problem in the past that was solved by doing just that & it probably canât hurt. |
| 11:40.27 | EmleyMoor | pja: Oh, just update? Worth a try I guess |
| 11:40.51 | pja | Exactly. Might sort it. |
| 11:40.56 | pja | Did for me anyway... |
| 11:41.01 | rdz | hey all. i noticed that sudo.service is masked in Debian Buster. Does that mean i don'tn have to 'systemct restart sudo.service' when adding a new file to /etc/sudoers.d/ |
| 11:41.02 | rdz | ? |
| 11:42.27 | sc_ | just upgraded a webserver from stretch to buster, only issue is php7.2 and php7.3, anyone have any notes on upgrading to the latest versions, I seem to be stuck in stretch |
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| 11:43.26 | EmleyMoor | No, that did not work |
| 11:43.54 | rdz | sc_, install the appropriate meta package...like: libapache2-mod-php instead of libapache2-mod-php7.3 |
| 11:44.14 | rdz | if you installed libapache2-mod-php7.0 in stretch, it won't automatically upgrade to 7.3 |
| 11:44.31 | sc_ | thanks, using nginx |
| 11:44.42 | sc_ | with php sury.org packages |
| 11:44.43 | rdz | sc_, whatever.. you get the idea |
| 11:44.52 | mureena | peasants not using php provided by sury's repo |
| 11:44.53 | EmleyMoor | pja: No change |
| 11:45.05 | rdz | sc_, is it a Debian question then? |
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| 11:45.26 | rdz | sc_, i don't know how this third party source handles their packaging |
| 11:46.00 | mureena | php 7.2 comes from php7.3-* packages, search those with apt-cache search |
| 11:46.05 | mureena | if you're using sury |
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| 11:46.30 | sc_ | I believe I may have a policy pinning issue |
| 11:46.55 | sc_ | https://pastebin.com/raw/D1WTU7RQ |
| 11:47.13 | EmleyMoor | pja: Any other suggestions? |
| 11:47.34 | pja | EmleyMoor: :( |
| 11:47.57 | pja | EmleyMoor: Is this the same volume group that / is on, or a different one? |
| 11:48.22 | EmleyMoor | pja: Same. / and /boot are active, rest not. |
| 11:48.26 | rephlexie | i apt installed php7.3 then did the same for for all the 7.3 modules one by one |
| 11:49.38 | sc_ | thanks rephlexie, for some reason it is saying it is installed, i may just nuke and reinstall |
| 11:50.00 | pja | Or just install the "php" package & possibly libapache2-mod-php7.3 |
| 11:50.12 | rephlexie | ^ |
| 11:50.43 | sc_ | not needed, but thanks |
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| 11:50.55 | sc_ | rephlexie: bingo, purged and reinstalled |
| 11:51.18 | EmleyMoor | pja: One suggestion is to cobble something out of this Ubuntu Q&A - https://askubuntu.com/questions/794526/boot-hangs-and-needs-manual-lvm-vgchange-ay - but I'd like to be sure this is the right thing to do first |
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| 11:52.08 | pja | EmleyMoor: that is weird. |
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| 11:54.06 | EmleyMoor | pja: It sure is... |
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| 11:55.20 | Ticho | EmleyMoor: do you perhaps have volume_list or auto_activation_volume_list configured in /etc/lvm/lvm.conf ? |
| 11:55.22 | sc_ | ye olde --purge and reinstall did the trick, not sure why it locked into stretch |
| 11:56.44 | mureena | You've something like :deb https://packages.sury.org/php/ stretch main in your apt sources? |
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| 11:57.04 | EmleyMoor | Ticho: No (other than commented) |
| 11:57.13 | sc_ | i updated all from streth to buster |
| 11:57.20 | sc_ | and re-updated apt |
| 11:57.37 | Ticho | EmleyMoor: alright, 'twas just a shot in the dark |
| 11:58.26 | EmleyMoor | This stalls the rest of my upgrades until I find the right answer |
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| 12:00.10 | colo-work | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=912087 - well, that is annoying |
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| 12:00.18 | pja | EmleyMoor: Is grub installed to a real partition? A little googling suggests that if it was installed onto the physical lvm volume then that can leaqd to this kmind of breakage. |
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| 12:03.01 | NetTerminalGene | pja, thanks |
| 12:03.16 | NetTerminalGene | pja, do you need blob for that? |
| 12:03.30 | NetTerminalGene | non-free firmware |
| 12:03.31 | NetTerminalGene | ? |
| 12:03.56 | pja | NetTerminalGene: Youâll probably need non-free firmware installed. |
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| 12:04.14 | pja | Doubt itâll work without, but havenât tried! |
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| 12:04.43 | NetTerminalGene | pja, did you install debian with non-free iso image? |
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| 12:05.33 | pja | NetTerminalGene: Canât remember off-hand. |
| 12:06.04 | NetTerminalGene | pja, does it causing screen tearing? |
| 12:06.28 | NetTerminalGene | when watching youtube video etc.. |
| 12:06.31 | Ticho | colo-work: that's a long-standing issue being uncovered a bit more - personally, I feel very dirty whenever I have to install haveged on a small router box |
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| 12:07.39 | colo-work | Ticho, yes. I'm dealing with close to a hundred ganeti instances, and I'm evaluating our options for those... |
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| 12:08.50 | pja | NetTerminalGene: Not sure, as have switch to an RX580. |
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| 12:11.30 | Ticho | colo-work: ouch, good luck |
| 12:12.44 | EmleyMoor | pja: GRUB is installed to the MBR |
| 12:13.15 | colo-work | Ticho, apparently, qemu can provide entropy to its guest OS by supllying the host's /dev/urandom, which would be good enough for me. but it's gonna be an adventure to teach ganeti how to do that. |
| 12:13.44 | colo-work | (and I'm also questioning the sanity of this approach when a freshly booted node is supposed to get 40 instances online at once...) |
| 12:16.31 | sc_ | thank you debian team, upgrade process from debian 9 to 10 was very easy :-) |
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| 12:17.40 | EmleyMoor | For me it's still a PITA |
| 12:18.29 | EmleyMoor | Not had one this problematic since slink->potato |
| 12:18.38 | pja | EmleyMoor: :( |
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| 12:18.51 | pja | EmleyMoor: Report the bug to lvm2 at least. |
| 12:19.34 | zbychuk | Does Buster boot on the new Ryzen platform? |
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| 12:20.22 | pja | zbychuk: I know Phoronix had a ton of trouble with the latest Ubuntu on a Ryzen 3000 platform. |
| 12:20.39 | pja | Some weird kernel / systemd interaction IIRC. |
| 12:20.51 | zbychuk | hmm |
| 12:21.01 | pja | Iâd hold off a week or two until it gets cleared up personally! |
| 12:21.06 | zbychuk | ok |
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| 12:21.28 | Koopz | if the kern.log repeatedly reports a network interface being up and down a ton of times, sometimes working for a few hours/days how likely is it that the network card of the server is dying? |
| 12:21.34 | pja | Ubuntu LTS was fine, but 19.x wonât boot IIRC. |
| 12:21.35 | epony | s/platform/test sample/ |
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| 12:21.52 | pja | Suspect buster might have the same problem. |
| 12:22.33 | pja | EmleyMoor: Only thing I can suggest is to hack a vgchage into the local lvm scripts & do an initramfs update so it gets insterted into the initramfs. |
| 12:22.38 | zbychuk | I am thinking to bay a new komputer, as my old one has i7 3770k, 32GB RAM, no discrete graphics |
| 12:23.08 | pja | Itâs a hack, but itâll solve your immediate problem & a stray vgchange shouldn't hurt anything in the future. |
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| 12:24.15 | zbychuk | I think to buy a x470 chipset MB, as x570 is requiring active cooling and i will not be buying new Radeon or PCIE4.0 SSD |
| 12:25.09 | pja | zbychuk: If you buy a 470, make sure itâs got the latest BIOS or it might not boot if you drop a Ryzen 3x00 in it. |
| 12:26.02 | zbychuk | I think 3900X would be optimal for me, and NVIDIA 2070 SUPER + SSD Samsung 970 PRO 512GB |
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| 12:26.31 | zbychuk | pja: ok |
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| 12:27.16 | pja | xenlo: Poking the debian-installer example pre-seed files: are you setting apt-setup/security_host ? |
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| 12:29.05 | pja | It looks like thatâs a separate thing to the apt proxy pre-seed value. |
| 12:29.48 | epony | zbychuk you're going to use that for windows gaming? |
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| 12:46.31 | brutser | hi all! when installing debian 10 on my lenovo t450s, i get the following error at boot: http://paste.debian.net/1090742/ - what can i do to fix this? I googled, but found nothing good... |
| 12:47.00 | colo-work | Ticho, qemu's method of supplying the hosts' entropy into the guest's entropy source seems to work |
| 12:47.08 | colo-work | (in case you're interested :)) |
| 12:47.14 | colo-work | I think I have solved my problem. yay. |
| 12:47.42 | petn-randall | brutser: That looks like a cosmetic ACPI bug in the firmware. Unless you have any noticeable issues from that, you can safely ignore it. |
| 12:48.17 | brutser | petn-randall: ok thanks |
| 12:48.41 | Ticho | colo-work: the virt-rng driver? |
| 12:49.06 | petn-randall | brutser: Updating the BIOS might remove the error, which is a good idea in general. |
| 12:49.30 | brutser | petn-randall: ok, i thought i actually did update the BIOS recently, but i'll check the version |
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| 12:50.07 | colo-work | Ticho, once you supply the emulated device to the guest, Debian (even jessie and stretch) auto-detect the device and load the virtio-rng driver, appropriately configured |
| 12:50.33 | DonAlex | help.. cannot seem to set date |
| 12:50.45 | DonAlex | date -s "2019-07-08 13:49" |
| 12:50.45 | DonAlex | date: cannot set date: Invalid argument |
| 12:51.50 | Ticho | colo-work: cool - I use the same for my windows VM on my work laptop :) |
| 12:52.28 | colo-work | ah :) |
| 12:52.43 | Ticho | colo-work: and now, how do you make sure the host has enough entropy for all the entropy-hungry guests? :) |
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| 12:53.13 | colo-work | Ticho, I am trying to using /dev/urandom, not /dev/random, to provide guests with entropy |
| 12:53.59 | colo-work | my cluster is configured like this in regard to kvm_extra now: kvm_extra: -object rng-random,id=rng0,filename=/dev/urandom -device virtio-rng-pci,bus=pci.0,addr=0x1e,max-bytes=1024,period=1000 |
| 12:54.21 | *** join/#debian sc_ (~sc@sc.ix.tc) |
| 12:54.24 | colo-work | I can see an open fd for the instance-specific qemu process, pointing towards the node's /dev/urandom |
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| 12:54.48 | Akuw | hi |
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| 12:55.10 | Akuw | what software can i use to make hardware and software invetory and create pdf documents as report |
| 12:55.12 | Akuw | ? |
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| 12:55.48 | petn-randall | Akuw: I've used i-doit in the past, which is unfortunately not packaged for Debian. |
| 12:56.00 | tarzeau | i'm using my shell script: http://www.aiei.ch/linux/inventory |
| 12:56.20 | Akuw | some web app? |
| 12:56.39 | tarzeau | requires to have a /etc/serial with a serial number, ours are encoded L-YY.MM.serial (so i know from who (letter) what year and month it was bought) |
| 12:56.52 | tarzeau | it generates html files, you put in some directory, BAM web app |
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| 12:57.06 | tarzeau | we use hostname.html :) |
| 12:57.19 | tarzeau | very easy to adapt to your needs too |
| 12:58.03 | Akuw | another application? |
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| 13:02.09 | doitux_ | Hi there, i'm developer of a management software for music teacher: https://github.com/doitux/qupil/ |
| 13:03.02 | doitux_ | is there any volunteer who would like to offer help to build or build debian packages for the software? |
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| 13:03.29 | jmcnaught | !rfp |
| 13:03.29 | dpkg | Request For Package (RFP) is the way to ask for a piece of software to be included in Debian. See http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp, the section on that page "Adding new entries with "reportbug"" is a good place to start. Technically, a RFP is a wishlist bug filed against "wnpp" with a title beginning "RFP: ", ask me about <wnpp>. The best way of getting software packaged is to do it yourself: ask me about <nmg>. |
| 13:03.36 | Habbie | doitux_, not me, but a question: does the software currently build & run on debian? |
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| 13:04.53 | epony | if only GH had a button to do it |
| 13:05.04 | jelly | what's a GH |
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| 13:05.20 | jan6 | github |
| 13:05.26 | foxmask | hi |
| 13:05.26 | epony | ;-) |
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| 13:05.35 | doitux_ | Habbie: i'm doing the development on ubuntu. So i think it should also build on debian. |
| 13:05.43 | brw | how's everyone doing with the upgrade to buster? |
| 13:05.44 | Habbie | doitux_, oh yes, good |
| 13:06.07 | tarzeau | it just worked! magic |
| 13:06.23 | brw | :) |
| 13:06.24 | tarzeau | (knot, nginx, ntp, postgres, ssh, dropbear) |
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| 13:06.37 | jelly | Akuw, there's a half dozen different IT and network equipment inventory management systems. |
| 13:06.55 | brw | anyone here use debmirror? I'm trying to figure out how to get the buster archive signing keys going (the current machine that I am running debmirror on is on Stretch) |
| 13:06.59 | emyd | hi! i'm installing debian on a matebook which has no ethernet card. it shows a dialogue for the wifi driver and when i select "iwlwifi" and hit enter it just redraws it. should i try the graphical installer or the one for buster? (this is the one for 9.9) |
| 13:07.22 | Akuw | jelly: hi, can you recomend some? |
| 13:07.24 | tarzeau | jelly: i tried them all, they didn't do what i needed, now there's inventory (shell script :) |
| 13:07.29 | jelly | emyd, iwlwifi requires non-free firmware to actually run |
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| 13:07.46 | Akuw | i am looking some web based |
| 13:07.52 | tarzeau | the goal was, have an overview over machines (one machine, one page) |
| 13:08.02 | jelly | emyd, if you need wifi during installation, use unofficial debian-installer images with firmware included |
| 13:08.05 | jelly | !firmware images |
| 13:08.05 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/. Follow the current/ link for stable, daily-builds/ or weekly-builds/ for testing. |
| 13:08.35 | tarzeau | Akuw: if you try mine, and like it, i'm happy to make a package of it, and improve it. but no idea what your needs are for an inventory of machines... |
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| 13:08.52 | maze88 | Hi, what laptop would you recommend I buy (I'll be installing Debian 10.0 on it!)? my two main options are Dell Latitude 7390 and System76 Galago Pro... |
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| 13:09.05 | jelly | tarzeau, does it keep track of software, db users and dependencies? |
| 13:09.27 | tarzeau | jelly: it keeps track of software. db users no, dependencies of what? |
| 13:09.35 | themill | doitux_: your mixture of licences is not nice (AGPL stuff mixed in with GPL_ |
| 13:09.41 | tarzeau | jelly: the last parts you mention are easy to add |
| 13:10.05 | tarzeau | jelly: have a look at it, i really like it since it's made so easy. patches/improvements welcome |
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| 13:10.15 | tarzeau | i even had a version of it for macOS, but not windows |
| 13:10.25 | jelly | tarzeau, systems depend on services. Services depend on machines and database schemas (users) and software installs. database schemas depend on databases. |
| 13:11.54 | tarzeau | jelly: as i said, the syntax INSIDE the thing is: command "Title" "command to get the data" . so add your services, schemas, users, software, be done |
| 13:12.24 | jelly | i-doit can do all that but I would NOT recommend it to my worst enemy |
| 13:12.31 | tarzeau | jelly: our systems are general purpose (partly cuda enabled) linux workstations (also hpc nodes) with a desktop and local screens (1-4) |
| 13:13.15 | jelly | there was a french open source product, name escapes me |
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| 13:14.08 | tarzeau | i just run it on my vhost, it's unusable on vhosts: but you get an idea: http://aiei.ch/linux/aiei.html |
| 13:14.47 | tarzeau | jelly: glpi, fusion inventory? |
| 13:15.03 | tarzeau | it's not providing a single page of overview, but yes that's the one our windows friends use |
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| 13:15.19 | jelly | ocsinventory-ng |
| 13:15.48 | tarzeau | indeed, the linux version is not fulfilling our needs. we need to know in which building machines are, and what age they have incl. all technical details |
| 13:15.50 | zbychuk | epony: not realy for windows. I want to edit my videos with it using DaVinci Resolve |
| 13:16.00 | jelly | Akuw, ^ Id investigate along those lines |
| 13:16.43 | jelly | tarzeau, honestly we have an excel sheet for all the server and storage hardware and that works better than i-doit or any piece of sw |
| 13:17.16 | tarzeau | jelly: we wanted soemthing that runs regularly on the machines, and puts it on some central place accessible linked from our active monitoring system by host |
| 13:17.46 | emyd | thanks jelly. i got debian installed but without wpasupplicant so i need to install it via usb from another computer and set it up manually |
| 13:17.57 | tarzeau | jelly: we've got a wiki with some css/html trick that depicts 1/2/4 U rack units nicely though for that part |
| 13:18.02 | maze88 | Hi, what laptop would you recommend I buy (I'll be installing Debian 10.0 on it!)? my two main options are Dell Latitude 7390 and System76 Galago Pro... |
| 13:18.10 | tarzeau | to keep track of rackspace and location, and serverroom location |
| 13:18.18 | epony | zbychuk yes, probably a good system for that too |
| 13:19.10 | zbychuk | epony: yes, i think so too |
| 13:19.18 | jelly | tarzeau, now go steal stencils from Visio and put pix of actual hardware, front and back view :-) |
| 13:19.30 | zbychuk | bye |
| 13:19.39 | epony | ~ |
| 13:19.43 | tarzeau | jelly: http://bootes.ethz.ch/rack.png |
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| 13:20.57 | jelly | I could generate that from our spreadsheet, it has locations and racks and units and hw models |
| 13:21.06 | jmcnaught | emyd: while you're doing that you may also want to make sure you install the firmware-iwlwifi package: https://packages.debian.org/buster/firmware-iwlwifi |
| 13:21.50 | jmcnaught | emyd: oh I guess you're installing stretch so https://packages.debian.org/stretch/firmware-iwlwifi instead |
| 13:23.07 | wr | on debian 10 should i have now "deb https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian buster contrib" or "deb https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian bionic contrib" on repositories? https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads |
| 13:23.42 | tarzeau | wr: https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian/dists/ they don't have buster |
| 13:23.52 | themill | wr: you'd have to ask them |
| 13:23.54 | tarzeau | the correct answer would be to not use foreign deb providers |
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| 13:24.44 | wr | tarzeau, themill when i use buster it fails on install but when i used bionic works |
| 13:25.01 | themill | wr: you need to ask oracle. |
| 13:25.08 | tarzeau | wr: as i said, there's no buster packages yet from them |
| 13:25.12 | jelly | tarzeau, except noone supports vbox but upstream really, it's a bit of a mess |
| 13:25.29 | wr | themill, yes i asked on channel, wait mode still |
| 13:25.44 | tarzeau | same with vscode, google-earth, google-chrome, and teamviewer... |
| 13:25.45 | greycat | assuming "bionic" is an ubuntu release name, you should expect a bit of danger or manual tweaking will be necessary if you try to use that on a non-ubuntu system |
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| 13:26.41 | tarzeau | and nvidia/cuda http://developer.download.nvidia.com/compute/cuda/repos/ nothing of debian there |
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| 13:31.00 | jelly | cuda compiler and -dev, basically the stuff that comes with nvidia gpu driver, are packaged in non-free |
| 13:31.23 | jelly | no idea how usable and complete that is |
| 13:31.51 | jelly | ,v nvidia-cuda-toolkit |
| 13:31.52 | judd | Package: nvidia-cuda-toolkit on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 6.0.37-5; stretch/non-free: 8.0.44-4; stretch-backports/non-free: 9.1.85-8~bpo9+1; bullseye/non-free: 9.2.148-7; buster/non-free: 9.2.148-7; sid/non-free: 9.2.148-7; experimental/non-free: 10.0.130-3 |
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| 13:33.43 | wr | tarzeau, greycat yes since they had a line Ubuntu 18.04 / 18.10 / 19.04 / Debian 10, it got me confused and started to think that the bionic/buster repo was the same, but guess not, the thing is that don't have buster then... |
| 13:34.24 | greycat | If something is labeled "works in ubuntu 18.04 or debian 10" then that's a reasonably good sign. |
| 13:34.59 | greycat | You're still going to have to ask the repository's maintainers for help if it doesn't work, but that's much better than blindly installing something from an Ubuntu-only source. |
| 13:35.10 | wr | greycat, now i have installed vbox works, but i don't know if i should remove this |
| 13:35.27 | greycat | If it's working, then why are you asking? |
| 13:35.55 | wr | greycat, because the repo is another and i have buster in my system and not bionic |
| 13:36.51 | wr | greycat, i'm pretty unsure on this but since no one replied yet on vbox channel |
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| 13:40.06 | bustero | i installed buster on my laptop yesterday and something very odd happened wheb |
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| 13:40.32 | fredl | 'lo folks |
| 13:40.46 | fredl | did freeipa-server not make it into buster? |
| 13:41.29 | greycat | ,v freeipa-server |
| 13:41.30 | judd | No package named 'freeipa-server' was found in amd64. |
| 13:41.41 | jelly | signs point to "no" |
| 13:41.48 | jelly | ,v freeipa-client |
| 13:41.49 | judd | Package: freeipa-client on amd64 -- bullseye: 4.7.2-3; buster: 4.7.2-3; sid: 4.7.2-3 |
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| 13:42.03 | fredl | hmm |
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| 13:42.13 | fredl | interesting. |
| 13:42.34 | jan6 | bustero: how about you say WHAT odd thing happened instead of "something odd" ;P |
| 13:43.14 | fredl | 'v python-ipaserver |
| 13:43.20 | fredl | ,v python-ipaserver |
| 13:43.21 | judd | Package: python-ipaserver on amd64 -- sid: 4.7.1-3 |
| 13:43.36 | bustero | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:43.37 | fredl | argh |
| 13:43.50 | greycat | fredl: I bet it's easy to backport |
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| 13:44.15 | fredl | I'm sure, and I got a few sid vm's running anyway to try with greycat |
| 13:44.17 | fredl | tnx |
| 13:44.49 | sunzero | how to stop apt-get autoremove list |
| 13:44.52 | sunzero | to don't remove |
| 13:44.53 | sunzero | it |
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| 13:45.05 | sunzero | or to clean the list i mean.. |
| 13:45.20 | jan6 | manually install the packages? |
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| 13:45.47 | sunzero | no |
| 13:46.01 | bustero | jan6, can you please replicate the issue? |
| 13:46.12 | fredl | ehrmmmm well at least I *thought* I had a Sid vm... |
| 13:46.13 | jan6 | bustero: not on 10 yet |
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| 13:46.30 | fredl | but my Sid apparently is not everybody else's Sid |
| 13:46.41 | Eryn_1983_FL | hi peeps i need help crafting a apt repo for this http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/stretch/ |
| 13:46.43 | fredl | coz in mine I don't see python-ipaserver |
| 13:46.49 | Eryn_1983_FL | er apt source |
| 13:47.09 | Eryn_1983_FL | seems mine was set to stable and its trying to upgrade for new versin and i cant baby sit it now... |
| 13:47.47 | fredl | Oh wlel |
| 13:47.56 | greycat | https://packages.debian.org/sid/python-ipaserver |
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| 13:48.01 | greycat | oops, too slow |
| 13:48.02 | bustero | if any of you people here can replicate the issue, it would great. Having your MATE session terminated because you want to burn a iso onto a cd is a major pain in the neck |
| 13:48.33 | petn-randall | bustero: Can't you just decline it? |
| 13:49.51 | jmcnaught | Eryn_1983_FL: I don't quite get what you mean but if you have a problem with your sources you can put /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* onto https://paste.debian.net/ for people to take a look at (in a single paste please :) |
| 13:50.16 | Eryn_1983_FL | yeah |
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| 13:50.39 | Eryn_1983_FL | http://ix.io/1O1W |
| 13:50.39 | themill | fredl: https://salsa.debian.org/freeipa-team/freeipa/blob/master/debian/rules#L15 |
| 13:50.42 | Eryn_1983_FL | i use ix |
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| 13:50.50 | bustero | if you decline, the burning stops and the blank CD becomes a coaster. i do not have rw CDs |
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| 13:52.10 | greycat | bustero: I don't know MATE specifically, but many Desktop Environments try to do an auto-mounting thing when they see a CD inserted in the drive, and this can interfere with burning software that needs exclusive control of the drive. |
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| 13:52.55 | greycat | If you can figure out a way to disable MATE's CD auto mounter, either permanently or temporarily, without logging all the way out of MATE, that should be sufficient. |
| 13:52.59 | jmcnaught | Eryn_1983_FL: that is not complete, see the example here: https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList#Example_sources.list you need three deb lines |
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| 13:53.45 | greycat | If you're willing to postpone non-security bug fixes until the formal point releases, you can get away with two. |
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| 13:54.09 | bustero | greycat, how can i achieve what you are suggesting me to do? |
| 13:54.27 | jmcnaught | Eryn_1983_FL: you also spelled stretch wrong in stretch-updates |
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| 13:56.31 | Sia- | Hi, i'm on gnome with pulseaudio and want to create shortcut to mute/Umute the usb mic. with alsamixer is possible but debian 10 the als utils isn't installed by default |
| 13:56.56 | greycat | ,file bin/alsamixer |
| 13:57.01 | judd | Search for bin/alsamixer in buster/amd64: alsa-utils: usr/bin/alsamixer |
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| 13:58.15 | Eryn_1983_FL | lol |
| 13:58.16 | Sia- | greycat, and? |
| 13:58.17 | blackflow | ,file usr/bin/amixer |
| 13:58.21 | judd | Search for usr/bin/amixer in buster/amd64: alsa-utils: usr/bin/amixer |
| 13:58.31 | blackflow | I'm scripting this one for my i3-wm controls |
| 13:58.33 | themill | !apt suite changed |
| 13:58.33 | dpkg | If you were already using Debian 10 "Buster" prior to it being released as stable, or you use 'testing' in your sources.list, apt complain about changes to the release information on the mirror. apt(8) will prompt you to accept changes; apt-get(8) will need --allow-releaseinfo-change |
| 13:58.37 | themill | Sia-: ^^ |
| 13:58.44 | themill | err etab |
| 13:59.34 | greycat | dpkg, apt suite changed =~ s/apt complain/apt-get will complain/ |
| 13:59.34 | dpkg | OK, greycat |
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| 14:00.36 | Sia- | themill, is anyway to do mute umote the usb mic via cli? |
| 14:00.51 | blackflow | Sia-: yes, via amixer |
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| 14:01.50 | Sia- | blackflow, does it make any conflict with my pulseaudio? |
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| 14:02.29 | blackflow | Sia-: doesn't seem to, in fact it seems to be operating the same set of audio channels. |
| 14:02.32 | themill | Sia-: pactl can do it |
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| 14:03.42 | themill | Sia-: «pactl set-source-mute 1 toggle» (1 is the source number from pactl list) |
| 14:03.52 | Sia- | themill, pactl can mute output but not usb mic |
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| 14:04.01 | themill | wfm |
| 14:05.39 | EmleyMoor | Bug 931628 |
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| 14:05.44 | Sia- | this can mute output "pactl set-sink-mute 0 toggle" but this doesn't mute usb mic " pactl set-source-mute 1 toggle" |
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| 14:08.05 | themill | Sia-: is it source 1? It's probably not. |
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| 14:09.25 | sheldor_the_conq | Hi, I'm trying to use this preseed file https://paste.debian.net/plainh/f2552eff in order to automat debian 10 installation |
| 14:09.44 | sheldor_the_conq | install stuck on the location screen https://framapic.org/mnIkzXwNKasO/mTCkYQHXz9v8.png |
| 14:09.59 | sheldor_the_conq | on the preseed i get d-i debian-installer/locale string fr_FR |
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| 14:11.14 | jim | so now this channel mainly supports buster? |
| 14:12.15 | themill | Sia-: (my usb mic is source #2 for instance; «pactl list|grep -A10 ^Source.#» might help) |
| 14:12.51 | greycat | jim: A lot of people here are probably still on stretch, or even older... |
| 14:12.54 | themill | jim: /topic |
| 14:13.10 | greycat | Upgrades to buster are going to be the main focus for a while, obviously. |
| 14:14.37 | jim | can someone tell me why my cups on buster can't talk to a cups still running on stretch? |
| 14:14.53 | jim | or rather help me to find out why |
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| 14:17.15 | pja | sheldor_the_conq: How are you starting the installer? |
| 14:17.24 | sheldor_the_conq | pja:by using packer |
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| 14:18.05 | pja | sheldor_the_conq: What command line is it using? |
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| 14:19.10 | nimbius | hi debian, im trying to set up a home router, but whenever I add a static interface for my internal network, it adds a default gateway for that interface. |
| 14:19.13 | nimbius | how can i prevent this'/ |
| 14:19.22 | pja | sheldor_the_conq: Try setting the country explicitly? |
| 14:19.38 | Wulf | nimbius: how do you do that? |
| 14:20.00 | greycat | nimbius: remote the "gateway" line that you added in /etc/network/interfaces if you don't want it... |
| 14:20.03 | greycat | remove* |
| 14:20.32 | nimbius | greycat: i only have network/netmask/broadcast and IP set. |
| 14:20.47 | sheldor_the_conq | pja: here's the cfg packer file used https://paste.debian.net/plainh/a39b7df9 |
| 14:20.49 | *** join/#debian quazgar_ (~quazgar@tmo-080-34.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 14:20.50 | greycat | Then what makes you think it's changing your default route? What does "ip route" say? |
| 14:20.51 | themill | jim: I assume you've cranked up the logging and looked at what it says? |
| 14:21.06 | foxmask | i'm trying to upgrade from debian 9.9 to 10 and meet an error with emacsen-common package install http://paste.debian.net/1090771/ any idea ? |
| 14:21.33 | nimbius | greycat: when the interface comes up, it sets the network 0.0.0.0 to a UD type route of 10.66.66.1, which clobbers the default route im getting from my provider interface. |
| 14:21.43 | *** join/#debian walnut_burl (~oak@104.129.29.18) |
| 14:21.45 | nimbius | 10.66 is my internal network |
| 14:22.03 | *** join/#debian michaelni (~michael@213-47-41-20.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) |
| 14:22.08 | emyd | is there a tool to install all debs for a package and its dependencies to a folder? |
| 14:22.11 | sheldor_the_conq | pja: the country seems to be set by d-i time/zone string Europe/Paris. Does the order is important ? |
| 14:22.29 | pja | sheldor_the_conq: It might be. Packer probably hasnât been updated for buster yet. |
| 14:22.55 | whislock | nimbius: Please provide your network configuration via paste.debian.net. |
| 14:23.08 | sheldor_the_conq | pja: maybe in fact it tought that my config file was outdated |
| 14:23.17 | emyd | currently downloading debian-live-10.0.0-amd64-standard+nonfree.iso which has 1.3 gb. is standard gnome or just a plane debian w/o DE? |
| 14:23.41 | nimbius | whislock: https://pastebin.com/FJjRVv6X |
| 14:23.52 | nimbius | the dhcp entry is my provider/uplink |
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| 14:24.21 | whislock | nimbius: Okay, can you also paste the output from "ip route"? |
| 14:24.32 | nimbius | whislock: BRB |
| 14:24.34 | nimbius | trying |
| 14:24.35 | pja | Live image has Gnome on it IIRC. |
| 14:24.39 | whislock | And your static config can be reduced to one line, btw. |
| 14:24.44 | jim | emyd, what's the purpose of the folder? |
| 14:25.02 | themill | foxmask: do you know what happened to /var/lib/emacsen-common/state/flavor/installed? |
| 14:25.09 | emyd | have all debs of wpasupplicant |
| 14:25.17 | emyd | and its deps |
| 14:25.21 | foxmask | themill: no ; I even don't know it |
| 14:25.29 | jim | it does that normally |
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| 14:25.45 | jim | but it puts them into standard places |
| 14:25.45 | sheldor_the_conq | pja: i'm gonna ask it to #packer-tool |
| 14:25.47 | foxmask | themill: there is no /var/lib/emacsen-common folder at all |
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| 14:26.07 | themill | foxmask: did you have emacsen-common installed under stretch? |
| 14:26.14 | sheldor_the_conq | pja: do you know if preseed has evolved for debian 10 ? |
| 14:26.26 | emyd | jim: how would you do it on buster for stretch? |
| 14:26.34 | jim | the debs get downloaded to /var/cache/apt/archives |
| 14:26.36 | foxmask | themill I dont know :) I expected no because I dont use emacs |
| 14:26.39 | pja | sheldor_the_conq: https://salsa.debian.org/cloud-team/vagrant-boxes/blob/master/packer-virtualbox-vagrant/contrib-buster.json |
| 14:26.42 | pja | might be helpful? |
| 14:26.47 | emyd | jim: only debs for buster |
| 14:27.07 | sheldor_the_conq | pja: oh :) |
| 14:27.11 | pja | :) |
| 14:27.20 | sheldor_the_conq | pja: thanks i'm gonna try it :) |
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| 14:27.37 | themill | foxmask: try «dpkg -x /var/cache/apt/archives/emacsen-common_3.0.4_all.deb /» |
| 14:27.37 | jim | emyd, you're cautioned against running debs for oses or branches you don't run |
| 14:28.13 | jim | either stay on stretch and use stretch packages, or upgrade and use buster packages |
| 14:28.30 | emyd | jim: i want to download them for another os on another computer |
| 14:28.41 | emyd | which has no internet |
| 14:28.52 | emyd | because the default installer refuses to install iwlwifi |
| 14:29.02 | jim | oh, there's this thing called apt-offline or apt-zip |
| 14:29.04 | themill | emyd: I'd suggest using apt-offline except someone filed bugs that caused it to not be in buster... |
| 14:29.09 | foxmask | themill: looks better ; the upgrade process continues now |
| 14:29.11 | greycat | Did you use the non-free firmware installer image, or the regular installer image? |
| 14:29.17 | foxmask | themill: what does -x ? |
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| 14:29.28 | emyd | the regular |
| 14:29.28 | greycat | foxmask: man dpkg |
| 14:29.37 | nimbius | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:29.46 | themill | foxmask: it just unpacks the files without actually marking the package as installed or running the maintainer scripts. |
| 14:29.57 | emyd | currently downloading debian-live-10.0.0-amd64-standard+nonfree.iso which has 1.3 gb. is standard gnome or just a plane debian w/o DE? |
| 14:30.02 | whislock | nimbius: Not going well? |
| 14:30.04 | themill | foxmask: basically, you installed the package which created that directory, and then got apt to install the package again |
| 14:30.05 | nimbius | whislock: https://pastebin.com/MZXJyJqD |
| 14:30.16 | foxmask | themill: ok ; I tried to install it by hand too with dpkg -i but failed angain and again ; thanks |
| 14:30.32 | greycat | emyd: gah, why do people grab *LIVE* images... |
| 14:30.36 | jim | emyd, are you intending to install debian buster on some machine? |
| 14:30.36 | themill | foxmask: yeah, dpkg -i will have tried and failed to run the maintainer scripts |
| 14:30.43 | emyd | yes |
| 14:30.43 | greycat | !firmware images |
| 14:30.43 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/. Follow the current/ link for stable, daily-builds/ or weekly-builds/ for testing. |
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| 14:31.03 | emyd | yes, that's where i grabbed the link from |
| 14:31.10 | jim | emyd, you can use a debian netinstall... they're much smaller |
| 14:31.34 | emyd | that's what i usually do but as i said the installer fails to install iwlwifi |
| 14:31.48 | emyd | and the matebook has no ethernet card |
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| 14:31.50 | jim | emyd, you don't need that big live image |
| 14:31.57 | themill | now if only that URL actually pointed to the netinstall ISO rather than somewhere several directories away from it |
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| 14:32.07 | jim | emyd, what does it have? |
| 14:32.07 | magic_ninja_work | emyd, yea, you want the nonfree firmware image. |
| 14:32.10 | emyd | thanks themill :) |
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| 14:32.45 | pja | sheldor_the_conq: Good luck! The pre-seed theyâre using is here: https://salsa.debian.org/cloud-team/vagrant-boxes/blob/master/packer-virtualbox-vagrant/http/buster-preseed.cfg |
| 14:32.50 | emyd | jim: it's some intel card |
| 14:32.56 | emyd | (wifi) |
| 14:33.02 | J_C | the non-free netinst image did say I missed a couple of ath10k .bin files for my wireless card, but it still worked regardless. |
| 14:33.12 | nimbius | whislock: thoughts? |
| 14:33.14 | NetTerminalGene | i read buster support secure boot. do you have to sign yourself? |
| 14:33.16 | jim | emyd, ok, what cpu do you have in it? |
| 14:33.43 | whislock | nimbius: Can you do me a favor here? Can you change your enp2s0 stanza to just the following: the iface line, and "address 10.66.66.1/24". Remove netmask, network, and broadcast. |
| 14:33.47 | emyd | installing via wifi is always a hassle. usually need to copy the drivers over from another computer via another usb .. |
| 14:34.04 | sheldor_the_conq | pja: yeah i'm adapting it |
| 14:34.06 | nimbius | whislock: trying now |
| 14:34.11 | jim | want to try it as an experiment to see if it works? |
| 14:34.18 | J_C | emyd: the non-free netinst image SHOULD have all of the drivers you need to download everything |
| 14:34.21 | emyd | jim: 64bit |
| 14:34.29 | greycat | dpkg, no, firmware images buster is <reply>A buster amd64 netinst installer with non-free firwmare is in <http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/10.0.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/>. See <firmware images>. |
| 14:34.30 | dpkg | greycat: okay |
| 14:34.33 | jim | ok one sec |
| 14:34.33 | pja | NetTerminalGene: Only if you want to use kernels you build yourself IIRC. |
| 14:34.42 | themill | dpkg, cookie greycat |
| 14:34.44 | dpkg | spins the wheel of knowledge and ponders... qotd304... . o O ( Why is mysqld now using 100% CPU? ) <jelly> because your query-fu is weak? <colo-work> because mysql's optimizer-fu is weak? <greycat> because your CPU is puny? <abrotman> Because MySQL .. <colo-work> because infinite loops take some time to complete? |
| 14:34.46 | greycat | themill: happier? Now someone just has to update it for every point release. |
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| 14:35.34 | jelly | dpkg, fib is <reply>see firmware images buster |
| 14:35.34 | dpkg | ...but fib is already something else... |
| 14:35.39 | jelly | noooooooooooooo |
| 14:35.44 | greycat | !literal fib |
| 14:35.44 | dpkg | "fib" is "saying standard debian is better than knoppix" |
| 14:35.56 | jelly | dpkg, forget fib |
| 14:35.57 | dpkg | jelly: i forgot fib |
| 14:35.58 | greycat | well, that one can go. |
| 14:36.02 | jelly | dpkg, fib is <reply>see firmware images buster |
| 14:36.03 | dpkg | okay, jelly |
| 14:36.11 | jelly | !fbi |
| 14:36.11 | dpkg | fbi is probably the Federal Bureau of Investigation, or the frame buffer image viewer |
| 14:36.28 | jim | emyd, ok, this image: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/10.0.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-10.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso |
| 14:37.00 | pja | !fib |
| 14:37.00 | dpkg | A buster amd64 netinst installer with non-free firwmare is in <http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/>. See <firmware images>. |
| 14:37.12 | greycat | It may or may not include the iwlwifi stuff... I don't know much about that. But at least it's a reasonable starting point. |
| 14:37.33 | sunzero | how can i skip apt-get autoremove |
| 14:37.48 | petn-randall | sunzero: just ... don't run it? |
| 14:38.00 | greycat | sunzero: apt-get doesn't do autoremove by default, but apt does. |
| 14:38.08 | emyd | thanks all, will try it |
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| 14:38.32 | emyd | ETA 20min |
| 14:38.38 | greycat | sunzero: if you want to completely disable autoremove forever and ever no matter what, you can put the line APT::NeverAutoRemove "."; in a new file inside /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ |
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| 14:38.58 | jim | emyd, that image is 375 mb |
| 14:39.12 | sunzero | greycat: yes i understand you |
| 14:39.22 | themill | btw apt doesn't autoremove; aptitude does |
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| 14:39.25 | sunzero | greycat: with what name?? |
| 14:39.29 | sunzero | ops |
| 14:39.31 | sheldor_the_conq | pja: still same message by changing us to fr |
| 14:39.32 | jim | and hopefully you don't have to copy drivers and what not |
| 14:39.38 | greycat | sunzero: I used "99local" as the name |
| 14:39.43 | pja | sheldor_the_conq: :( |
| 14:39.51 | sheldor_the_conq | yeah |
| 14:40.01 | greycat | you can name it whatever will work for you, and it's probably a good idea to assume it uses the run-parts naming restrictions (NO DOTS) |
| 14:40.01 | sunzero | greycat: what you mean |
| 14:40.07 | sheldor_the_conq | they're using vagrant but not me |
| 14:40.11 | pja | maybe thereâs a sub-config for that locale that isnât being set? |
| 14:40.15 | greycat | sunzero: you get to name it |
| 14:40.23 | sheldor_the_conq | a sub-config ? |
| 14:40.43 | sunzero | greycat: aptconf? |
| 14:41.10 | themill | apt.conf(5) has more |
| 14:41.20 | greycat | sunzero: You create a new file with whatever name you feel is appropriate. |
| 14:41.37 | sunzero | greycat: ah ok |
| 14:41.39 | sunzero | greycat: thanks |
| 14:41.41 | greycat | That's why I wrote "... in a new file ..." |
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| 14:51.20 | pja | sheldor_the_conq: Thereâs a french preseed here: https://doc.ycharbi.fr/index.php/Installation_automatique_Debian#Contenu_du_fichier_Preseed |
| 14:51.24 | pja | is that any help? |
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| 14:52.50 | emyd | is there a cli browser with js functionality? |
| 14:53.10 | hexyul | i'm confused, when I do a backup of, say, `/etc`, `/var/lib/dpkg`, `/var/lib/apt/extended_states` as per the upgrade guide, should I follow symlinks ? |
| 14:53.15 | nimbius | whislock: so it looks like this issue is being caused by isc-dhcp-server |
| 14:53.27 | whislock | nimbius: Ah. |
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| 14:53.37 | Wulf | emyd: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Headless_mode |
| 14:53.40 | sheldor_the_conq | pja: yeah gonna explore it :) |
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| 14:54.12 | nimbius | whislock: but im not sure why? |
| 14:54.24 | emyd | Wulf: this won't look like links, right? |
| 14:54.30 | nimbius | once the system hands out its first IP on this interface, it adds a weird default GW. |
| 14:54.32 | *** join/#debian toxync12 (~toxync12@223.72.96.111) |
| 14:54.34 | Wulf | emyd: it won't look like anything. |
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| 14:54.44 | emyd | hehe |
| 14:54.51 | nimbius | this would only be an issue if enp2s0 were listening for dhcp traffic, which, it should NOT be. |
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| 15:04.03 | jadax | I started doing upgrade from debian 9 to debian 10 |
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| 15:04.06 | Danu | HI! |
| 15:04.09 | jadax | but it failed on minisspd service |
| 15:04.22 | jadax | Failed to start keep memory of all UPnP devices that announced themselves. |
| 15:04.41 | brutser | hi, i got a lenovo t450s and everytime i boot debian 10 with mate, it split the display between the laptop and the monitor (attached with displaycable) - how can i make the monitor become the only display? |
| 15:04.42 | jadax | what should I do about minissdpd? |
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| 15:06.00 | petn-randall | brutser: You should be able to configure it in the display settings, and those changes should be persistent. |
| 15:08.08 | factor | What's the difference from debian9 to debian10 Openstack qcow2 image. Debian 10 is finding my cloud-init and running some of the commands(hostname, setting password),but not following all the commands(i.e runcmd: write_file:). |
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| 15:09.43 | nimbius | oof man running dhcp and dhcpcd side by side is...painful. |
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| 15:11.55 | nimbius | <PROTECTED> |
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| 15:13.06 | nimbius | whislock: i figured it out! |
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| 15:13.35 | nimbius | I have dhcpcd running on my router to pull config for the dhcp uplink but its also pulling dhcpd config for the internal network and applying it to the interfaces at the same time. |
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| 15:14.21 | nimbius | adding nodhcp seems to have fixed the issue |
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| 15:15.13 | webmind | Hi |
| 15:15.20 | trackanddirt | hi |
| 15:15.30 | webmind | upgraded my laptop to buster, now getting "ListUtil.c: loadable library and perl binaries are mismatched (got handshake key 0xdb80080, needed 0xce00080)" when trying to use perl |
| 15:15.35 | emyd | i wrote the image to the stick with "dd bs=4M if=<iso> of=/dev/sdc". it's no valid boot device and looks empty in fdisk: /dev/sdc1 * 0 767999 768000 375M 0 Empty |
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| 15:16.07 | emyd | when i repeat the dd command it finishes in seconds which is weird. could there be some wcaching going on? |
| 15:17.02 | emyd | oh it's just the type that's empty. the files are on it |
| 15:17.36 | petn-randall | webmind: Either you need to fully upgrade to buster, or you need to update your locally installed libraries (which I guess are installed via cpan). |
| 15:17.48 | emyd | maybe dd jumps over bytes when the outfile is equal to the infile? |
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| 15:19.47 | petn-randall | emyd: That's not what's happening. It's likely buffered, though, so you need to run `sync`. |
| 15:22.14 | emyd | wrote it to another stick and it works. |
| 15:22.32 | emyd | maybe broken flash something something |
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| 15:23.46 | webmind | petn-randall: I did an apt-get dist-upgrade to buster |
| 15:24.00 | emyd | nice, this one asks me for my wifi password. |
| 15:25.05 | nimbius | does anyone know if dhcpcd's nodhcp and nodhcpv6 are somehow linked? |
| 15:25.44 | webmind | thanks |
| 15:25.50 | webmind | was indeed a mixed perl version |
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| 15:43.23 | tfgbd_ | Does suspend work in CS supporting laptops? |
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| 15:49.07 | factor | scratch that about the debian10 openstack qcow2 image. While some errors are taking place, more of the commands are working. Will have to look into the package when it finishes. Did notwork much at all yesterday. |
| 15:49.24 | factor | cloud-init is acting wonky though. |
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| 15:50.08 | greycat | factor: boot time entropy starvation? |
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| 15:50.40 | factor | greycat, could be. |
| 15:50.50 | factor | did get some urandom errors in the logs. |
| 15:50.56 | greycat | https://wiki.debian.org/BoottimeEntropyStarvation |
| 15:51.18 | greycat | also section 5.1.4 in the release notes, https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#entropy-starvation |
| 15:51.41 | factor | That was yesterday. I made a very lightweight openstack , for testing. |
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| 15:53.35 | factor | greycat, yes seems to be the case |
| 15:53.48 | petn-randall | tfgbd_: What do you mean with CS in this context? |
| 15:54.27 | tfgbd_ | Connected Standby |
| 15:54.34 | tfgbd_ | Intel Connected Standby |
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| 16:04.10 | factor | greycat, its seems I need to upgrade my kernel to manage the urandom issue. I'm still using a home made kernel 4.18. Deb10 default is 4.19 which has a CONFIG_RANDOM_TRUST_CPU to fix the entropy issue. Thanks for the help. |
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| 16:14.01 | Eryn_1983_FL | hi guys |
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| 16:14.29 | Eryn_1983_FL | so one of my systems did a dirty upgrade to buster, and i think i got something hung up so i cant install ffmped or mpd. |
| 16:14.33 | Eryn_1983_FL | https://paste.debian.net/1090795/ |
| 16:14.37 | Eryn_1983_FL | can you help me out? |
| 16:14.53 | petn-randall | Eryn_1983_FL: What is a "dirty upgrade" for you? |
| 16:15.18 | Eryn_1983_FL | screwed up |
| 16:15.33 | Eryn_1983_FL | some package is installed as stretch version but i am running buster now. |
| 16:15.39 | Eryn_1983_FL | im scared to do a reboot.. |
| 16:15.53 | petn-randall | Eryn_1983_FL: How did you upgrade? |
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| 16:16.33 | Eryn_1983_FL | well i had a repo set as stable and puppet config tool start upgrading the machine w/o me knowing, i stoped, and then tried to fix it.. |
| 16:17.13 | petn-randall | Eryn_1983_FL: I'd continue upgrading then. Guess it's too late to prepare for it, though ... |
| 16:17.20 | Eryn_1983_FL | ive installed all the packages, but mpd and ffmpeg so far will not install. |
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| 16:17.44 | deego | petn-randall: how should one prepare for it? In the past, I have always simply done apt upgrade |
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| 16:18.02 | petn-randall | deego: Reading the release notes is a start, and also making backups. |
| 16:18.03 | Eryn_1983_FL | whats done is done |
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| 16:18.10 | petn-randall | !bat |
| 16:18.10 | dpkg | In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 16:18.11 | Eryn_1983_FL | i got my backuips, |
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| 16:18.26 | petn-randall | Eryn_1983_FL: Can you provide all of the above factoid in a single paste then? ^^^ |
| 16:18.34 | Eryn_1983_FL | probabbly not.. |
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| 16:19.01 | Eryn_1983_FL | ill take my axe to it no worries. |
| 16:19.11 | deego | petn-randall: thx re backups. i did actually read the notes. didn't see anything. did i miss anything? |
| 16:19.15 | styx-tdo | hi, on stable, does anyone update amavisd-new recenty? When i start it, i get errors about zeromq, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=926473 - but for me, this makes amavis not start at all, and critical |
| 16:19.23 | petn-randall | deego: About what? |
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| 16:21.55 | Sia- | themill, you helped me alot the source is 21. fix it Thanks |
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| 16:33.38 | paulgrmn | In Stretch, the default output of `date` showed "Mon Jul 8 09:01:09 EDT 2019". After upgrade to Buster, it shows "Mon 08 Jul 2019 12:12:40 PM EDT". Why? Thanks. |
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| 16:34.50 | petn-randall | paulgrmn: Probably because there was an update to the timezone data. |
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| 16:35.02 | petn-randall | paulgrmn: Which will likely also end up in oldstable, just a little later. |
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| 16:37.04 | BCMM | petn-randall: tzdata covers formatting stuff? |
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| 16:38.25 | tfgbd_ | its time zone data |
| 16:39.49 | BCMM | i would have assumed this was a locale issue... |
| 16:40.21 | greycat | paulgrmn: buster's locale definitions changed |
| 16:40.50 | BCMM | $LC_TIME controls date's default format, right? |
| 16:41.24 | BCMM | actually, how can one see what different LC_TIME values actually mean? |
| 16:41.53 | greycat | trial and error |
| 16:42.03 | greycat | or reading the definition files |
| 16:42.35 | BCMM | so, i guess my question is: where are the definition files, and are they human-readable? |
| 16:43.35 | jhutchins_wk | This is very strange: I can scp a 500 byte file to server b, but I can't scp a 28k file, process hangs after creating 0 byte target. |
| 16:44.58 | BCMM | fwiw, i get paulgrmn's first format with LC_TIME=en_GB.utf8 date, and the second format with LC_TIME=en_US.utf8 date |
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| 16:46.12 | greycat | paulgrmn: I did this <https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-user@lists.debian.org/msg741047.html> |
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| 16:48.04 | styx-tdo | is it possible to have a package in debian stable that can be built, but doesn't start? |
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| 16:49.14 | petn-randall | styx-tdo: Most software requires configuration to work, so yes. |
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| 16:50.24 | styx-tdo | amavisd-new has a dependency (in the code, not the control file) that cannot be fulfilled by stable packages |
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| 16:51.31 | styx-tdo | there is a bug, but it is "normal".. i'd think that a breaking change would make a higher severity.. |
| 16:51.37 | paulgrmn | Yes, setting LC_TIME=en_US.utf8 shows the date format I saw before upgrade to Buster. |
| 16:51.55 | petn-randall | styx-tdo: Which one exactly? |
| 16:53.08 | styx-tdo | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:53.17 | petn-randall | styx-tdo: Doesn't the zeromq dependency require that you enable it in the config? |
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| 16:53.48 | styx-tdo | code of /usr/sbin/amavis-services, line 144: die "Perl modules ZMQ::LibZMQ3 or ZMQ::LibZMQ2 or ZeroMQ not available\n"; |
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| 16:54.28 | styx-tdo | amavisd-status: same - dies at line 110... so... |
| 16:54.32 | styx-tdo | not optional, imho |
| 16:55.38 | petn-randall | Ah, ok. |
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| 16:56.09 | petn-randall | Then I'd bump the severity of the bug report to RC, and add the details that it's not optional anymore. |
| 16:56.36 | paulgrmn | https://paste.debian.net/1090807/ |
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| 17:00.30 | greycat | paulgrmn: as shown on that mailing list post, the default definitions are in /usr/share/i18n/locales/en_US and so on. |
| 17:00.35 | greycat | those are human-readable |
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| 17:04.19 | paulgrmn | Thanks, all. It never occurred to me the date output for a locale would change, but now I know. |
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| 17:07.55 | styx-tdo | petn-randall, the bug system.. only way to send a request is by mail? |
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| 17:10.10 | earend1 | or email. |
| 17:10.30 | earend1 | pigeons are not supported (yet) |
| 17:11.33 | earend1 | https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting |
| 17:11.51 | earend1 | "We strongly recommend that you report bugs in Debian using the reportbug program." |
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| 17:14.05 | styx-tdo | *correction: Request raising the bug to blocker, actually |
| 17:14.49 | petn-randall | styx-tdo: you can change the severity with the tool `bts`. |
| 17:15.15 | petn-randall | styx-tdo: It's in the package devscripts. |
| 17:15.30 | tfgbd_ | Is bts named after BTS? |
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| 17:16.20 | styx-tdo | 40 packages later... ;) |
| 17:16.41 | earend1 | unix program names are usually named after the authors hairdressers cousin |
| 17:16.44 | petn-randall | tfgbd_: bug tracking system, not "behind the scenes" :) |
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| 17:17.56 | annadane | Buster Through Stretch :) |
| 17:18.17 | greycat | The debian bug tracking system (BTS) is named bug tracking system. |
| 17:18.27 | annadane | mind blown |
| 17:19.20 | tfgbd_ | Where do you even learn a term like that? |
| 17:20.14 | greycat | !bts |
| 17:20.14 | dpkg | Bug Tracking System for Debian packages, http://bugs.debian.org/ or to go directly to the bug page for a particular package/bug, try http://bugs.debian.org/packagename or http://bugs.debian.org/bugnumber . aptitude install reportbug, and check out <querybts> too. Users of unstable and testing are required to check the BTS. See also <apt-listbugs>, <reportbug>. http://wiki.debian.org/HowtoUseBTS |
| 17:20.19 | tfgbd_ | Ohh |
| 17:20.25 | tfgbd_ | Stop abbreviating. |
| 17:20.30 | tfgbd_ | It alienates the community |
| 17:20.34 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 17:20.41 | greycat | Next! |
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| 17:22.11 | metrix | iptables command is not on my new Buster machine after upgrading, but dpkg --get-selections shows it installed... How do I use iptables? |
| 17:22.52 | petn-randall | tfgbd_: Says the guy with the unpronouncable name. |
| 17:23.06 | greycat | metrix: https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#nftables |
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| 17:24.46 | metrix | greycat: thank you! |
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| 17:28.20 | lns | What's the best way to call a script after a certain package has updated (I'm a sysadmin, not pkg maintainer)? I want to copy files from an updated package to a chroot to keep them in sync. |
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| 17:28.48 | lns | I looked at dpkg triggers but that looks only available for package maintainers. |
| 17:29.30 | lns | (for context, I'm running bind chrooted and need root.hints updated in the chroot when dns-root-data package updates) |
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| 17:31.20 | Nao | After upgrading to Buster my "gateway" line in /etc/network/interfaces stop work. Default route is added, but it routes to 0.0.0.0 |
| 17:31.34 | greycat | Nao: what does "ip route" actually say? |
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| 17:36.13 | mohsen_1 | I attempted to install debian 10 twice today, I faced with this error: adweita-icon-theme verify checksum failed at both times |
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| 17:37.54 | metrix | Is /usr/sbin supposed to be in the PATH by default? |
| 17:38.10 | styx-tdo | metrix, for root |
| 17:38.47 | styx-tdo | metrix, the s in sbin is superuser. these commands should only be executed by a system admin ;) |
| 17:38.47 | metrix | hmm... My root after upgrading to Buster: PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games |
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| 17:40.41 | jelly | metrix, how do you become root? |
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| 17:40.49 | metrix | su |
| 17:41.03 | greycat | metrix: https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes |
| 17:41.30 | jelly | metrix, use "su -" to open a proper root shell, then |
| 17:41.38 | greycat | that's one of the choices |
| 17:41.51 | greycat | s/proper root shell/root login shell/ |
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| 17:42.02 | Ticho | I feel like this was glossed over in release notes, where the only su-related change mentions X11 display access |
| 17:42.08 | metrix | Ahh Thank you, I read through that, but didn't catch the - ... |
| 17:42.09 | jelly | and one safe enough to use on older releases and other linuxes as well |
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| 17:42.32 | greycat | To be fair, I did put it first. |
| 17:42.45 | jelly | (I honestly did not notice that, having memorized su - a long time ago) |
| 17:42.45 | greycat | although personally I consider it the *worst* answer |
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| 17:51.16 | Psyndrome | hi |
| 17:52.09 | Psyndrome | What commands i need to upgrade to the new version of the system? |
| 17:52.44 | jhutchins_wk | Does ifconfig no longer show MTU, or is this because it's a VB VM. |
| 17:52.52 | greycat | dpkg, stretch->buster |
| 17:52.52 | dpkg | Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> http://deb.li/JFKc . TL;DR: In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "stretch" to "buster", remove stable-specific lines like stretch-backports. apt update && apt upgrade && apt full-upgrade. 3rd party repos like <dmo> are known to cause problems with the upgrade. |
| 17:54.35 | jelly | jhutchins_wk, it does, output format is changed a bit |
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| 17:55.18 | jelly | eth0: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 |
| 17:55.28 | jhutchins_wk | Ah, | grep MTU |
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| 17:56.30 | jelly | jhutchins_wk, that change was also in stretch IIRC |
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| 17:57.24 | jhutchins_wk | Yeah, running stretch here. |
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| 17:57.41 | jelly | upgrade! :-D |
| 17:57.58 | dvs | stay constant! |
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| 17:59.08 | greycat | Constant vigilance! |
| 17:59.12 | jhutchins_wk | Gonna let the mad rush die down first. |
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| 18:25.14 | Nao | greycat, https://paste.debian.net/1090830/ |
| 18:25.58 | Nao | For some reason I see 169.254.204.38/16 here |
| 18:26.28 | greycat | Nao: that 169.254 stuff usually comes from avahi |
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| 18:26.56 | greycat | The 169.254.0.0/16 line is perfectly fine and has nothing to do with your default gateway. That's the "default" line above it. |
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| 18:27.51 | greycat | However, it appears that you have munged your outputs beyond all recognition, which is going to make it extremely hard for anyone to help you, beyond pointing out "169.254.x.y is avahi". |
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| 18:31.41 | jelly | Nao, can you show actual contents and outputs? |
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| 18:36.30 | luna_ | Now its compiling Firefox 68 and Firefox 18 (iOS) gonna be released tommorow 18:00 Swedish time |
| 18:37.24 | salcedo | firmware-10.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso booting off of usb doesn't detect cdrom |
| 18:37.48 | salcedo | "cdrom" (because i don't have one) |
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| 18:39.54 | mtn | salcedo: what tool did you use to make the usb? |
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| 18:41.29 | salcedo | mtn: dd |
| 18:42.07 | salcedo | note, i'm booting off of an internal "cache" drive. trying with a usb drive now. |
| 18:42.26 | salcedo | also alps touchpad... |
| 18:42.39 | dvs | salcedo, what was the exact command did you use? |
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| 18:42.54 | salcedo | dd if=firmware-10.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso of=/dev/sdc bs=16M |
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| 18:44.04 | salcedo | using same command with conv=sync to write to usb stick |
| 18:44.13 | salcedo | will see if that works |
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| 18:49.14 | jpw | salcedo: UEFI? |
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| 18:49.33 | salcedo | jpw: yep |
| 18:49.36 | jpw | if so what brand |
| 18:49.45 | salcedo | thinkpad t440s |
| 18:50.41 | jpw | k gimmy a min |
| 18:50.48 | Lady_Aleena | Hello all. The following is how far I got when I was updating and upgrading to buster: http://paste.debian.net/1090831/ |
| 18:51.12 | salcedo | jpw: brb going to try the usb stick instead of the internal one. |
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| 18:51.21 | Lady_Aleena | Here is my sources.list: http://paste.debian.net/1090832/ |
| 18:51.33 | jpw | thats a good plan, try all the devices you can |
| 18:52.00 | jpw | some UEFI envirnonents i've seen lately are straight up garbage |
| 18:52.21 | jpw | legacy mode is poorly implemented, if at all |
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| 18:56.08 | jpw | are you a) sure legacy mode is enabled an b) secure boot is also disabled? |
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| 18:56.27 | dokma | Any way to clone same mouse clicks to multiple windows? |
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| 18:57.29 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: looks good |
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| 18:57.39 | Lady_Aleena | LtL, the error looks good? |
| 18:57.56 | LtL | lawhat error checking again |
| 18:58.02 | LtL | ack |
| 18:58.09 | Lady_Aleena | LtL, the first pastebin link. |
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| 18:58.27 | greycat | This is why you want to put your whole question into *one* line of IRC, not spread it out. |
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| 18:59.21 | Nao | greycat, jelly : I removed some stuff from "interfaces", rebooted VPS and here is the result: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/8b10c378/ |
| 18:59.29 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: i don't see a mistake |
| 18:59.44 | Lady_Aleena | Error is shown here: http://paste.debian.net/1090831/; my sources.list is here: http://paste.debian.net/1090832/ |
| 19:00.06 | Rust3dCor3 | Hello. Any alternative to kdocker (it just infuriates me). I was using all time alltray on debian 9. Now since I'm on fresh buster I have no access to alltray. Any alternatives? |
| 19:00.10 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: i used http://paste.debian.net/1090832/ its fine |
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| 19:00.54 | karlpinc | ,v alltray |
| 19:00.55 | judd | Package: alltray on amd64 -- jessie: 0.71b-1; stretch: 0.71b-1+b2; sid: 0.71b-1.2 |
| 19:00.57 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: you only need the first line to full-upgrade, but that should be okay |
| 19:00.59 | greycat | Lady_Aleena: I can't help but notice the line that says "ubuntu trusty" |
| 19:01.08 | Rust3dCor3 | im on stable |
| 19:01.24 | greycat | that may be a red herring, but I also have no clue what "AppStream" is |
| 19:01.34 | Lady_Aleena | greycat, I don't know where that comes from. |
| 19:01.35 | karlpinc | ,checkbackport alltray |
| 19:01.36 | judd | Backporting package alltray in sidâbuster/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using buster. |
| 19:02.01 | karlpinc | !tell Rust3dCor3 about ssb |
| 19:02.08 | greycat | Lady_Aleena: grep -rF launchpad.net /etc/apt |
| 19:02.22 | karlpinc | Rust3dCor3: You could self-backport alltray, or see if it is in the backports repo. Just saying. |
| 19:02.33 | sunkan | Does anyone know if all debian packages are recompiled with the new GCC compiler version for each major release? |
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| 19:02.55 | Lady_Aleena | greycat, http://paste.debian.net/1090837/ |
| 19:02.59 | BCMM | greycat: cross-distro interface to package management (including a standard metadata format) |
| 19:03.22 | greycat | BCMM: *shudder* |
| 19:03.57 | BCMM | greycat: eh, what's wrong with that? |
| 19:04.01 | greycat | Lady_Aleena: you wondered where the ubuntu line was from, so I showed you how to find out -- deal with it however you see fit |
| 19:04.46 | BCMM | greycat: obviously you want something specific to your package manager to do anything advanced, or to fix problems. but there's nothing wrong with having a nice simple interface to just install an application... |
| 19:05.30 | greycat | I notice how "problems" are mentioned before "nice simple". |
| 19:05.59 | BCMM | ... i don't get it, sorry |
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| 19:06.02 | JamesBong | hi there |
| 19:06.14 | greycat | in this case I can't even guess whether Lady_Aleena's error comes from something this AppStream thing put in place |
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| 19:06.46 | Lady_Aleena | Do I delete the contents of sources.list.d? |
| 19:06.47 | greycat | oh, wait, it does say appstreamcli in the error message, so I correct myself: it's *definitely* related. |
| 19:06.58 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: how did you get a PPA, I hadn't seen the first paste. |
| 19:07.12 | greycat | Hit:2 http://ppa.launchpad.net/notepadqq-team/notepadqq/ubuntu trusty InRelease |
| 19:07.36 | BCMM | it's basically just an metadata standard that allows frontends to show things like application icons in the interface |
| 19:07.47 | greycat | If you *need* this source, then leave it alone. If not, consider what to do about it. Your choice. |
| 19:08.11 | Lady_Aleena | I don't even have notepadqq installed anymore. |
| 19:08.18 | greycat | Her error message says E: Problem executing scripts APT::Update::Post-Invoke-Success 'if /usr/bin/test -w /var/cache/app-info -a -e /usr/bin/appstreamcli; then appstreamcli refresh-cache > /dev/null; fi' |
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| 19:09.25 | BCMM | Lady_Aleena: do you actually use any appstream frontends? |
| 19:09.45 | Lady_Aleena | BCMM, I don't know. Some other program I use might. |
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| 19:09.57 | BCMM | Lady_Aleena: well, do you use a GUI for installing packages? |
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| 19:10.09 | BCMM | that error shouldn't stop apt-get working normally, for example |
| 19:10.28 | Lady_Aleena | BCMM, I am in XFCE right now, but using a terminal emulator. |
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| 19:10.46 | BCMM | Lady_Aleena: i meant like synaptic or something |
| 19:10.52 | Lady_Aleena | BCMM, no. |
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| 19:12.22 | BCMM | Lady_Aleena: the thing that failed is just a hook that appstream puts in apt, to update its metadata cache. you can probably safely remove the package "appstream" |
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| 19:13.04 | BCMM | Lady_Aleena: check what it wants to uninstall with it - it's possible you've just got an apt frontend you've never used. more than one desktop task installs such a frontend, for example. |
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| 19:13.41 | Lady_Aleena | From what I can tell, the appstream error is separate from the Ubuntu lines, correct? |
| 19:13.52 | BCMM | (if you want to save a bit of time and never see this problem again. otherwise, just do apt update again, and it'll probably sort itself out) |
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| 19:14.16 | BCMM | Lady_Aleena: it's not impossible that it's choking on metadata it got from the ppa |
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| 19:14.56 | BCMM | Lady_Aleena: uh actually i don't think it even fetched a metadata file for that repo, so it probably is unrelated |
| 19:15.21 | Lady_Aleena | Is there a way to find out what, if anything, depends on appstream? |
| 19:15.31 | BCMM | Lady_Aleena: `aptitude why appstream` |
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| 19:16.01 | BCMM | Lady_Aleena: or just try apt-remove, and read the warning about having to remove other packages |
| 19:16.09 | jelly | sunkan, no, but they're tested if they can build, and bugs are filed if they can't |
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| 19:17.28 | BCMM | Lady_Aleena: you will be able to apt-update a bit faster without it, since i think apt won't bother fetching icons without it (which occasionally takes time to download) |
| 19:17.51 | Lady_Aleena | Sorry for taking the long way around, I just wanted to be sure. Updating and upgrading now. |
| 19:18.04 | miskatonic | i will wait until dvd sets are available for order |
| 19:18.32 | Lady_Aleena | I probably won't be able to paste any more errors to a pastebin when Firefox is upgraded to Buster edition. |
| 19:18.41 | BCMM | Lady_Aleena: (yup, just having appstream installed does slow down apt update, since the metadata fetching is triggered by /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50appstream) |
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| 19:20.05 | jelly | Nao, hm. what does "ifup -nv eth0" say? |
| 19:20.32 | BCMM | talking of pastebins, anybody else find that pastebinit does not, in fact, work? |
| 19:20.46 | jelly | Nao, do you have any virtualization or containerization software installed? |
| 19:20.54 | BCMM | for me, it always just prints http://paste.debian.net/ instead of giving me a link to my actual paste |
| 19:21.19 | jelly | BCMM, the output has a minimum length requirement for paste.debian.net |
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| 19:21.32 | Nao | greycat, jelly : Problem with default gateway was /etc/init.d/dhcpcd . After disabling it I got my gateway back. |
| 19:21.39 | miskatonic | im knew it ... firefox without xul sucks infinitely |
| 19:21.40 | BCMM | jelly: ah, thanks |
| 19:21.46 | jelly | you can't pastebin just one line |
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| 19:22.20 | jelly | !win Nao |
| 19:22.20 | dpkg | Congratulations, Nao! You have won second prize in a beauty contest! |
| 19:22.42 | Nao | jelly, It took me 2 days to figure this out... |
| 19:22.52 | BCMM | jelly: yeah, i don't know how i initially got it in to my head that it was broken, but i've been occasionally doing, like, echo test | pastebinit to see if its fixed, lol. that explains a lot. |
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| 19:26.16 | salcedo | jpw: yep that worked. |
| 19:26.45 | salcedo | in debian now. no xorg/wayland/whatever installed. just bare minimum. |
| 19:26.52 | salcedo | need to research how to get these alps touchpads working. |
| 19:26.59 | salcedo | they work in many other distros, including openbsd. |
| 19:27.00 | jelly | ,i dhcpcd |
| 19:27.01 | judd | No package named 'dhcpcd' was found in buster/amd64. |
| 19:27.08 | jelly | ,i dhcpcd --release stretch |
| 19:27.09 | judd | No package named 'dhcpcd' was found in stretch/amd64. |
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| 19:27.17 | jelly | ,i dhcpcd --release jessie |
| 19:27.18 | judd | No package named 'dhcpcd' was found in jessie/amd64. |
| 19:27.22 | luna_ | Soon Debian 10, Debconf and Debcamp meeting |
| 19:27.24 | jelly | ok wow |
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| 19:27.38 | karlpinc | salcedo: Sometimes "apt-cache search alps" (or something) helps find the right package. You may need to enable non-free repo if the firmware is non-free. |
| 19:27.49 | jelly | Nao, maybe take a look at what other old software is lying around |
| 19:27.51 | jelly | !obsolete |
| 19:27.52 | dpkg | If you remove a repository from your sources.list (e.g. removing <dmm>), then you should check what packages you have installed from the other repository. Synaptic and aptitude have a "Obsolete and Locally Created Packages" list. Or, "aptitude search ~o". Note this doesn't include packages that exist in the repo at a different version to the one you have installed; see <not available> <list repositories>. |
| 19:28.20 | sunkan | jelly: The reason I ask is due to a bug in GCC (for ARM) that has been fixed but that causes incompatibility with code compiled with GCC earlier than 7.1 Can I assume that all libraries in debian will work fine together with the GCC version in buster? |
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| 19:28.58 | jelly | ,v gcc |
| 19:28.59 | judd | Package: gcc on amd64 -- jessie: 4:4.9.2-2; stretch: 4:6.3.0-4; bullseye: 4:8.3.0-1; buster: 4:8.3.0-1; sid: 4:8.3.0-1; experimental: 4:9-20181127-1 |
| 19:29.47 | sunkan | jelly: So some packages (including libraries?) can be built with 6.3.0 for example? |
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| 19:30.36 | greycat | sunkan: if you find a problem, report a bug about it |
| 19:30.41 | Nao | jelly, this init script is from package dhcpcd5, it is presented in buster. |
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| 19:31.17 | greycat | well now *that* sounds familiar, doesn't it |
| 19:31.51 | jelly | sunkan, in general, they might be, yes. If it's a well known issue chances are Debian knew about the same bug and rebuilt everything for armel / armhf / aarch64 |
| 19:32.23 | sunkan | greycat: Not really sure where to report it though, boost causes GCC to emit warnings about this for example. Can I check if boost is compiled with GCC 8.3.0? (I would assume so since the version has changed since Stretch) |
| 19:32.28 | jelly | sunkan, ask in #debian-arm on irc.oftc.net and point out the actual issue. |
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| 19:33.00 | jelly | boost gets rebuilt like every month in sid, because of its incompatibility with itself... |
| 19:33.05 | sunkan | jelly: I'll give that a try. Thanks for the help. |
| 19:33.15 | greycat | Nao: Let me guess... this is a Raspbian system, and you're using an "image" that was prepared by Raspbian, and this "image" installs dhcpcd5 by default, and dhcpcd5 does weird things to your networking? |
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| 19:33.45 | greycat | Nao: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/07/msg00359.html |
| 19:34.05 | Nao | greycat, I'm using Debian VPS from Digital Ocean |
| 19:34.05 | greycat | and that WHOOOOOOLE god damned thread from hell |
| 19:34.13 | jelly | they said it was a VPS |
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| 19:34.27 | sunkan | jelly: ;) So in that case there probably is no issue then.. |
| 19:36.32 | Nao | greycat, That's exactly my problem. I will figure out do I need this package or not (probably not) and remove it. |
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| 19:40.18 | tfgbd_ | What's the proc arch? |
| 19:40.23 | tfgbd_ | of the vps |
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| 19:41.34 | tfgbd_ | Make sure you don't use devian and backup your .vhd |
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| 19:43.51 | tfgbd_ | I think I'm going to start testing debian testing on my new hardware |
| 19:43.52 | Gabriel_7 | testing/updates security does not exist anymore? |
| 19:43.59 | greycat | Correct. |
| 19:44.12 | greycat | It'll be replaced with testing-security at some point. |
| 19:44.37 | jelly | Gabriel_7, testing NEVER has a security repo. |
| 19:45.01 | corbean | hello Gabriel_7 |
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| 19:45.07 | jelly | (that actually gets populated with packages just for testing. Sometimes the repo exists) |
| 19:45.08 | greycat | It did, it was just empty for like 8 years. |
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| 19:46.02 | greycat | (and now that buster is stable, bullseye questions really belong in OFTC #debian-next) |
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| 19:46.39 | jelly | that bundle of b-beginning codenames is really going to bite us in the butt innit |
| 19:46.55 | jelly | !bookworm |
| 19:46.55 | dpkg | The release following Debian 11 "Bullseye" is codenamed "Bookworm" and will be Debian 12. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2018/04/msg00006.html Bookworm is the librarian in Toy Story 3, a big green worm with a flashlight and keeper of the instruction manuals. |
| 19:47.15 | Gabriel_7 | OK I did not know the securyt testing repo was empty ... |
| 19:47.19 | greycat | I still haven't seen Toy Story 3. Or 4. |
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| 19:48.46 | annadane | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toy_Story_characters we'll be ok for a while |
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| 19:49.01 | tfgbd_ | Yeah, 4 is out now |
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| 19:49.26 | tfgbd_ | I'm downloading mint. |
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| 19:50.38 | annadane | "the debian project is pleased to announce debian 25, which doesn't have a codename, because pixar stopped making films" |
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| 19:51.55 | linuturk | is there a way to disable unattended-upgrades temporarily? have it call a script or check for some other precondition before executing the actual apt commands? We have some devices that run workloads at arbitrary times, and they'd be sensitive to these upgrades while a job is running. |
| 19:52.26 | linuturk | there isn't a maintenance window or anything like that. |
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| 19:53.17 | linuturk | also, congrats on the release :-D |
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| 19:56.15 | corbean | Gabriel_7, you live in France ? |
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| 19:57.30 | karlpinc | linuturk: See the /usr/lib/apt/apt.systemd.daily |
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| 19:58.18 | karlpinc | linuturk: file. It contains config directives you _should_ be able to frob by dropping a file in and out of one of apt's config directories. (At least on squeeze.) |
| 19:58.41 | Gabriel_7 | corbean: yes... ? |
| 19:58.52 | linuturk | thanks karlpinc |
| 19:58.54 | corbean | oh ok me too |
| 19:59.03 | corbean | Paris ? |
| 19:59.45 | karlpinc | linuturk: APT::Periodic::Enable probably needs to be set to 0 (sometimes). You'll need to test... :) |
| 19:59.47 | Gabriel_7 | I'm tempted to think the place I'm living in is lightly out topic in here :) |
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| 20:00.05 | karlpinc | Gabriel_7: There is #debian-offtopic. :) |
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| 20:01.27 | karlpinc | linuturk: Don't forget to allow for race conditions. You don't want to set the var while something is already running. |
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| 20:01.52 | linuturk | good call :) |
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| 20:04.11 | mataniko | I don't fully understand the upgrade steps around network names. My interface is called eth0, but i have no specific net rules |
| 20:04.44 | jelly | wtf. Who put colors in my iostat output!? |
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| 20:05.00 | greycat | mataniko: if it's working, you can leave it alone for now, but officially you're supposed to migrate to the new names |
| 20:05.30 | keith4 | since the last systemd update in stable, autologin using agetty --autologin is no longer functional. just starts an empty tty now. I don't know where to begin troubleshooting this. any thoughts? |
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| 20:07.49 | luna_ | Rhonda :) |
| 20:12.33 | flipxyz | Hey everyone, |
| 20:12.35 | flipxyz | I'm studing debian packaging and during the debuild process I'm getting this lintian => I: pcapfix source: testsuite-autopkgtest-missing |
| 20:12.37 | flipxyz | I'm not sure if I understand it correctly. Can I ignore this lintian for simple packages like this one (pcapfix) ? Cause lintian infos (lintian -i) says that I have to be sure that the testsuite will make difference. |
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| 20:21.09 | zumba_addict | can I use dpkg -i ./mypackage.deb? |
| 20:21.29 | greycat | You can, but it won't grab dependencies. |
| 20:21.41 | greycat | If you want to grab dependencies, use apt install ./mypackage.deb |
| 20:21.53 | zumba_addict | i'll do that instead. Thank you! |
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| 20:25.40 | zumba_addict | I forgot greycat. It's an upgrade. There is an existing package installed |
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| 20:25.54 | mason | Hey, you guys released Buster behind my back. I thought we'd talked about this. |
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| 20:26.04 | greycat | !buster release |
| 20:26.04 | dpkg | Buster's release is planned for 2019-07-06 (https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/06/msg00003.html). Celebrate by attending, or hosting, a buster release party: https://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartyBuster |
| 20:26.12 | nifker | Is it not possible to upgrade to bullseye already? |
| 20:26.23 | greycat | Bullseye is the current testing branch. |
| 20:26.29 | nifker | Ik |
| 20:26.32 | mason | greycat: Yar, just reading that. Good stuff. Downloading now. |
| 20:26.53 | zumba_addict | and I have the file provided by the vendor |
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| 20:27.21 | zumba_addict | like this? apt-get install --only-upgrade ./mypackage.deb |
| 20:27.21 | nifker | Ive been using testing before too |
| 20:28.25 | greycat | Then you know the drill. |
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| 20:29.51 | nifker | apt tells me that "http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye/updates Release" contains no release file |
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| 20:30.12 | greycat | well of course there's no security updates for it |
| 20:30.36 | greycat | and when there *are*, they will not be named bullseye/updates any more; the decision was made to rename that source |
| 20:31.28 | mason | greycat: Do you know offhand if there are firmware- variants, or has that been rolled in, or...? |
| 20:31.28 | zumba_addict | I checked this link, looks like there is no such thing for upgrading from a local deb file - https://www.tecmint.com/install-local-deb-packages-in-debian-ubuntu-linux-mint/ |
| 20:31.39 | greycat | !fib |
| 20:31.39 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ |
| 20:31.45 | mason | ty ty |
| 20:32.00 | greycat | Oh god, NO. |
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| 20:32.04 | mason | I remember (maybe misremember) there being a link from the main download pages, but I'm not seeing it now. |
| 20:32.12 | greycat | someone changed it to the same CRAP that plagues all the others |
| 20:32.14 | zumba_addict | is `apt install ./debfile` enough to update an installed package? |
| 20:32.20 | greycat | !firmware images jessie |
| 20:32.20 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for installing Debian 8 "Jessie" are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ . See also <install guide>. From Debian 9 "Stretch", DVD1+firmware is also available. |
| 20:32.27 | greycat | See the problem? |
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| 20:33.13 | greycat | zumba_addict: you could have tried it 20 times by now |
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| 20:33.31 | zumba_addict | that's what I'm doing now. My vm is still launching. Thank you |
| 20:33.49 | mason | greycat: Not seeing the issue, but I'm feeling fairly burned out and circling the great drain that is end-of-day. :P |
| 20:34.27 | greycat | It says buster firmware images are at http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ and it says jessie firmware images are at http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ |
| 20:34.49 | greycat | !wheezy firmware images |
| 20:34.56 | greycat | !stretch firmware images |
| 20:35.03 | greycat | oh, oops |
| 20:35.08 | greycat | !firmware images wheezy |
| 20:35.08 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for installing Debian 7 "Wheezy" are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ . See also <install guide>. |
| 20:35.19 | greycat | And wheezy firmare images are at http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ |
| 20:35.57 | mason | Well. Who wants the old stuff anyway. =cough= |
| 20:35.58 | greycat | That's why I went so far out of my way to try to break this cycle. |
| 20:36.35 | greycat | I pointed the main factoid to the ANCESTOR directory from which you can follow current/ or other paths, and explained that. Then I made the buster-specific factoid point to an actual buster release directory. |
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| 21:05.50 | Lady_Aleena | Well, I've upgraded, rebooted, and am in my DE; but HexChat won't connect to Freenode. Anyone else have problems with HexChat after upgrading? |
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| 21:14.46 | Lady_Aleena | So, no one who uses HexChat had problems after upgrading from Stretch to Buster? |
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| 21:17.33 | miskatonic | maybe no one else uses hexchat? |
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| 21:19.01 | tarzeau | https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=hexchat quite some do |
| 21:20.22 | miskatonic | but have those who do , already upgraded? |
| 21:21.25 | tarzeau | miskatonic: the maintainer should have done so. i would've checked what happens when you launch it from terminal, if nothing, what happens when you run ngrep port 6667 while launching it from terminal |
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| 21:27.15 | LtL | lacuni: hexchat connects to freenode just fine |
| 21:27.36 | Lady-Aleena | For some reason it didn't like me at first. |
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| 21:31.53 | emyd | i'm trying to fix "Could not find a primary drm kms device" - after installing the xserver neither lightdm nor gdm3 bring it up. searched a bit and it seems to be related to wayland |
| 21:32.54 | emyd | guess that's the price for not installing a complete DE but just selected metapackages |
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| 21:36.43 | zerocool | hi guys, when i tried upgrading from 9 to 10 i got errors related to udev, initramfs-tools, the kernel... on reboot will not boot, get kernel panic, when i boot using old kernel cannot fix packages, is this common? |
| 21:36.53 | zerocool | has happened two times for me, different machines |
| 21:38.11 | zerocool | ohhhhhhhh, i bet i know what it is |
| 21:38.37 | zerocool | udev wants kvm group to be under 1000 and this machine is probably set up with in above 60k |
| 21:40.44 | emyd | had this too, continued using the old kernel but a fresh install might be easier |
| 21:42.51 | miskatonic | wayland is only necessary for gnome and kde, or has it already infected other parts of debian? |
| 21:43.20 | Sleaker | miskatonic: I believe only gnome/kde |
| 21:43.34 | Sleaker | ;version xorg |
| 21:43.47 | tarzeau | gnustep has a backend, but it's never been cleaned up/released |
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| 21:44.34 | Sleaker | ,v xserver-xorg |
| 21:44.35 | judd | Package: xserver-xorg on amd64 -- jessie: 1:7.7+7; bullseye: 1:7.7+19; buster: 1:7.7+19; sid: 1:7.7+19; stretch: 1:7.7+19 |
| 21:44.39 | emyd | task-desktop installs a whole gnome with all its weird games :/ |
| 21:45.07 | Sleaker | miskatonic: xserver still available in buster at the same v as stretchm so I assume that's good? |
| 21:45.14 | emyd | just want to use i3 |
| 21:45.33 | Sleaker | emyd: don't use tasksel then? |
| 21:45.49 | emyd | sry, was desperate |
| 21:46.17 | Sleaker | or start with a different base task maybe? |
| 21:46.38 | emyd | searching for above error for some time and only found reports for arch, fedora and gnome |
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| 21:46.56 | miskatonic | or start with no task at all |
| 21:47.23 | emyd | lacks the knowledge to pick the right package to fix it |
| 21:47.56 | emyd | why do i even have gnome-shell after installing xserver? |
| 21:48.08 | emyd | gnome-shell: Failed to create backend: Could not find a primary drm kms device |
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| 21:50.08 | emyd | must be gmd3. however lightdm fails too |
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| 21:50.41 | emyd | Could not enumerate user data directory /var/lib/lightdm/data |
| 21:50.51 | emyd | so weird |
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| 21:52.31 | emyd | only hits: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=647359 https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org/msg1505916.html |
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| 21:58.12 | miskatonic | isn't drm kms only supported by some graphic cards/ gpus? |
| 21:58.42 | emyd | question is why is it needed |
| 21:58.59 | emyd | when this folder is present lightdm silently fails |
| 21:59.20 | emyd | something is missing here, maybe a firmware driver |
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| 22:01.39 | dstaring | Does anyone know of a reliable site which lists the actual e-mail addresses for companies to contact them? I've wasted a million hours by now looking through Bosch's website and all they have is a retarded e-mail form which forces me to send a bunch of data to Google, and lacks a file upload feature, so I can't attach my photo which is required to get help. |
| 22:02.06 | emyd | got it, reloading amdgpu brought up the relevant message |
| 22:03.34 | nkuttler | dstaring: this channel is for debian-related support |
| 22:04.01 | annadane | why is it when i install mate-desktop-environment and then purge it and apt autoremove, mate-terminal is still there? |
| 22:04.26 | annadane | stupid question, i forgot about aptitude why |
| 22:04.43 | annadane | and i'm the one who keeps recommending aptitude, too... |
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| 22:09.16 | miskatonic | maybe other packages depend on mate-terminal? |
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| 22:09.41 | emyd | ok, now even after a restart lightdm still logs: Cannot run in framebuffer mode |
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| 22:13.45 | Lady_Aleena | During the upgrade from Stretch to Buster, I got two messages that concern me. 1) LOCALE: Can not set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory. 2) ... dependency problems, but removing anyways as requested. Should either of those bother me after the upgrade? |
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| 22:16.09 | dvs | Lady_Aleena, 2) This shouldn't bother you. That is normal during upgrading. |
| 22:17.09 | Lady_Aleena | dvs, anything on 1? |
| 22:17.28 | petn-randall | Lady_Aleena: This is via ssh? |
| 22:17.50 | dvs | Lady_Aleena, reinstall the locales package? I'm not sure. |
| 22:17.51 | Lady_Aleena | petn-randall, it was through apt-get. |
| 22:18.08 | petn-randall | Lady_Aleena: Yes, but were you connected locally or via ssh? |
| 22:18.08 | Lady_Aleena | I don't know how apt-get is set up. |
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| 22:18.27 | Lady_Aleena | petn-randall, how do I find that out? |
| 22:18.58 | zumba_addict | apt install ./myfile.deb failed greycat |
| 22:19.03 | Lady_Aleena | I honestly don't know how apt-get works, and I am even more clueless when it comes to ssh. |
| 22:19.50 | dvs | petn-randall, I think the answer to that is "no" |
| 22:20.53 | klys | zumba_addict, try dpkg -iGREB ./myfile.deb |
| 22:21.00 | petn-randall | Lady_Aleena: You can probably fix the locale by running `dpkg-reconfigure locales`, and then ensuring the one you use is selected. |
| 22:21.04 | zumba_addict | what is GREB? |
| 22:21.39 | klys | zumba_addict, those are flags to prevent dpkg from doing something unexpected, you can read `man dpkg' for more info. |
| 22:21.48 | zumba_addict | k |
| 22:21.55 | zumba_addict | like a safety measure |
| 22:22.17 | Lady_Aleena | petn-randall, how do I find out if it were set after reboot? |
| 22:22.51 | mutante | apt or apt-get install should work on local files but you have to copy them to /var/cache/apt/ first afair |
| 22:23.03 | zumba_addict | is -B safe? kinda worried about it |
| 22:23.13 | Lady_Aleena | I mean, I just looked up "locale", and everything seems to be in order. |
| 22:23.45 | klys | zumba_addict, if it installs your package it will tell you that it did. |
| 22:23.53 | zumba_addict | k |
| 22:23.55 | petn-randall | Lady_Aleena: Was that during upgrade, or when you also open console? |
| 22:24.05 | zumba_addict | The default action is to keep your current version. |
| 22:24.06 | petn-randall | Lady_Aleena: During upgrade that can happen and I'd consider it normal. |
| 22:24.16 | zumba_addict | I should say Y because i want my old config |
| 22:24.20 | zumba_addict | correct? |
| 22:24.32 | zumba_addict | oh no, it should be N |
| 22:24.40 | Lady_Aleena | petn-randall, only during the upgrade process. That message came up several times. In the terminal, "locale" seems to have everything set. |
| 22:24.41 | mutante | zumba_addict: just Enter is default |
| 22:25.03 | Lady_Aleena | Oh, except LC_ALL is not set. |
| 22:25.31 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: ignore the LC_ALL |
| 22:25.39 | petn-randall | Lady_Aleena: That's sensible, as LC_ALL overrides every other setting. |
| 22:25.43 | Lady_Aleena | Okay, I can do that. |
| 22:26.12 | mutante | Lady_Aleena: it just means it does NOT override all the other language settings https://wiki.debian.org/Locale#Configuration |
| 22:26.13 | Lady_Aleena | Everything else is set to "en_US.UTF-8" that seems fine. |
| 22:27.00 | Lady_Aleena | I can easily ignore LC_ALL (until it bites me in the foot). 8) |
| 22:27.24 | mutante | but LC_PAPER should be the correct toilet paper size for the country or Gimp |
| 22:27.26 | mutante | for |
| 22:27.36 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: during the upgrade you'll see that a bunch of times |
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| 22:29.24 | Lady_Aleena | LtL, I did see that during the upgrade a lot. I'm all upgraded, and no BIG issues. I am in my DE, listening to music, and on IRC. I even checked Facebook and Twitter in Firefox, so I think I'm okay for now. My issues are minor, like making my DE look the way I want it too again. |
| 22:30.09 | klys | that's interesting. I usually use LC_ALL=en_US.utf8 except you have en_US.UTF-8 |
| 22:30.16 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: congratulations, its downhill from there |
| 22:30.34 | Lady_Aleena | I didn't want until a little over a month to upgrade this time. (I waited until about a month and a half ago to upgrade from jessie to stretch.) |
| 22:30.39 | LtL | thats downhill, in a good way. |
| 22:31.27 | dvs | Lady_Aleena, well, the next major upgrade should be in over 2 years now. |
| 22:31.41 | Lady_Aleena | dvs, so no stress until then. |
| 22:31.47 | LtL | buster's kernel made my touchpad work like a rock star |
| 22:32.35 | Lady_Aleena | My ONLY major issue is that my favorite terminal emulator stopped working. Now I have to use others that don't have horizontal scrolling. |
| 22:32.59 | emyd | interesting. after every reboot i need to reload the amdgpu kernel module to make lightdm/start/X work |
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| 22:34.02 | miskatonic | can't systemd take care of loading modules? |
| 22:34.02 | emyd | it's not great but i'll get used to it. reminds me of the times when i had to type 'cd windows<ret>win.exe' on every boot |
| 22:34.22 | emyd | too high-level |
| 22:34.26 | petn-randall | miskatonic: That is an odd question. What problem are you trying to solve? |
| 22:34.45 | Lady_Aleena | <venting>Why don't the more popular terminal emulators have horizontal scrolling?!</venting> |
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| 22:35.26 | miskatonic | petn-randall: emyd's problem ogf having manually to reload amd kernel module each reboot |
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| 22:36.02 | emyd | for some reason on first load it can't find the firmware |
| 22:36.21 | emyd | maybe a boot order thing? |
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| 22:43.09 | n-iCe | hi guys |
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| 22:43.58 | bobo_ | alpine-linux |
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| 22:44.54 | bobo_ | hi, do you have icewm in AL? |
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| 22:47.10 | jeddi | emyd - is the amdgpu module definitely loaded at boot? are you rmmod and then insmod'ing it? |
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| 22:51.59 | emyd | jeddi: i think so because 'modprobe -v amdgpu' does nothing right after reboot |
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| 22:53.57 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: you could try apt-get install --reinstall xfce4-terminal |
| 22:54.19 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: if thats the term you have probs with |
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| 22:58.49 | n-iCe | is there netinstall nonfree? |
| 22:59.08 | n-iCe | got it https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/ |
| 22:59.12 | Lady_Aleena | LtL, I used jessies.terminator as my terminal emulator, and Debian package manager doesn't have it. |
| 22:59.44 | BCMM | emyd: perhaps the kernel module is in the initramfs, but the firmware blob isn't? |
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| 23:00.13 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: i have terminator, you should to |
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| 23:00.35 | BCMM | i think sometimes graphics drivers are installed to the initramfs in order to provide native resolution via kms as early as possible in the boot process |
| 23:00.39 | Tom-_ | ,v terminator |
| 23:00.40 | judd | Package: terminator on amd64 -- jessie: 0.97-4; stretch: 1.90+bzr-1705-1; bullseye: 1.91-4; buster: 1.91-4; sid: 1.91-4 |
| 23:00.49 | Tom-_ | terminator's in buster |
| 23:00.51 | Lady_Aleena | Xterm, UXterm, Konsole, and XFCE terminal do not have horizontal scrolling. |
| 23:01.08 | Tom-_ | is judd's output order wrong? buster should come before bullseye |
| 23:01.09 | Lady_Aleena | Tom-_, that is GNOME terminator, NOT jessies.terminator. |
| 23:01.17 | Tom-_ | oh i didn't know there were two |
| 23:01.48 | Lady_Aleena | There are two. jessies terminator is written in java, and there is a java version problem now. |
| 23:02.03 | Tom-_ | okay so this jessie has nothing to do with the Debian release of jessie |
| 23:02.10 | Lady_Aleena | Nope. |
| 23:02.32 | Tom-_ | so it's probably never been a Debian package? |
| 23:02.48 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: apt show terminator |
| 23:03.01 | Lady_Aleena | No, it has not. I got the deb for it a LONG time ago. |
| 23:03.11 | humpled | vim has horizontal scrolling |
| 23:03.22 | Tom-_ | Lady_Aleena, is there no new version? |
| 23:03.41 | emyd | BCMM: good idea, when i run 'update-initramfs -u' it warns about missing possible firmware files but they are definitively present because firmware-amd-graphics is installed |
| 23:04.13 | emyd | *possible missing |
| 23:04.23 | Lady_Aleena | LtL, apt show terminator shows the wrong one. |
| 23:04.49 | BCMM | emyd: i'm more wondering if perhaps the one you're using is somehow not on the list of files update-initramfs wants |
| 23:04.49 | humpled | terminator is nice though |
| 23:05.09 | humpled | i ran it in openbox, it doesn't need a lot of libs or ram |
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| 23:05.30 | emyd | BCMM: how couldi fix that |
| 23:05.35 | BCMM | emyd: i know very little about how debian handles initramfs creation i'm afraid |
| 23:05.48 | BCMM | emyd: but you could open up the initramfs and see if the file seems to be present |
| 23:07.14 | Lady_Aleena | Tom-_, I'm looking. |
| 23:07.56 | tabakhase | !apt suite changed |
| 23:07.56 | dpkg | If you were already using Debian 10 "Buster" prior to it being released as stable, or you use 'testing' in your sources.list, apt-get will complain about changes to the release information on the mirror. apt(8) will prompt you to accept changes; apt-get(8) will need --allow-releaseinfo-change |
| 23:08.37 | BCMM | ok it turns out i *really* don't know how a debian initrams works, because mine appears to be much larger than the files extracted from it... |
| 23:09.43 | petn-randall | BCMM: If you have microcode installed, it gets prepended to the initramfs in a really weird way. |
| 23:09.57 | BCMM | petn-randall: yeah, microcode is all i'm seeing |
| 23:10.14 | petn-randall | BCMM: So it gets cpio'd twice. |
| 23:10.15 | BCMM | petn-randall: but i thought you could literally just cat cpio archives together, and they would extract like a single archive |
| 23:10.45 | petn-randall | BCMM: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=722318 |
| 23:10.46 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/722318 in initramfs-tools (closed, patch): «prepend_earlyinitramfs makes inspecting initramfs unnecessarily hard»; severity: normal; opened: 2013-09-10; last modified: 2015-03-11. |
| 23:10.56 | petn-randall | BCMM: This explains the issue quite well :) |
| 23:11.18 | BCMM | petn-randall: oh right, it's an uncompressed cpio followed by a compressed one? |
| 23:11.38 | BCMM | i'm somewhat surprised that the kernel handles that |
| 23:12.02 | *** join/#debian Minall (~user@186.69.29.84) |
| 23:12.03 | tfgbd_ | Why did my debian come with Matlab? |
| 23:12.06 | Minall | Hello! |
| 23:12.25 | Minall | I'm having a strange bug, I really need help since I don;t know what to do |
| 23:12.45 | petn-randall | !ask |
| 23:12.46 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 23:12.57 | Minall | Thank you, ok! |
| 23:13.15 | n-iCe | dumb question, is I go for testing, do I need to uprade or change the iso to get a new version of debian? or will it be updated by itself |
| 23:13.18 | petn-randall | BCMM: Indeed, it's a weird setup. |
| 23:13.42 | BCMM | i guess that's why unmkinitramfs exists... |
| 23:13.45 | Minall | I'm trying to install debian on an old computer, but just by plugin the USB it freezes totally my pc, to the point when I have to restart manually. |
| 23:13.58 | BCMM | and wow this initramfs is kind of huge. why is ntfs-3g in here? does debian support NTFS boot??? |
| 23:14.04 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@2a00:23c5:6e21:2100:9c60:bb33:b023:d8) |
| 23:14.11 | Minall | If I plug the usb and then boot the pc, it shows the first screen, but toally freezed, an does nothing |
| 23:14.12 | petn-randall | n-iCe: You'll need to regularly update your system, doesn't matter what ISO you take to bootstrap it. |
| 23:14.42 | Minall | If I try to boot the pc and then as fast as I can plug the usb, it freezes at the point... |
| 23:14.49 | n-iCe | petn-randall: yes, but if I update && upgrade, will version of debian will change auto? |
| 23:15.04 | *** join/#debian user___ (~user@90.253.79.119) |
| 23:15.15 | Minall | It doesn't seem to happend to debian-based distros... just debian |
| 23:15.29 | Minall | But I want to install debian, not other, so... what hsould I do? |
| 23:15.43 | *** join/#debian DINOWILLIAM (~DINOWILLI@177.220.174.24) |
| 23:16.02 | n-iCe | Minall: try other iso maybe? netinstall? |
| 23:16.35 | Minall | I have tried with the iso for 9.9.0 i think was the last stable branch, and now with the 10 |
| 23:16.46 | Minall | Gives exactly the same issue... |
| 23:16.52 | n-iCe | Minall: keep the usb plugged, then boot |
| 23:16.53 | *** join/#debian jpw (~jpw@cpc147786-rdng28-2-0-cust29.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 23:17.12 | Minall | Netinstall, I don't have with me another pc to do that, sadly... |
| 23:17.50 | n-iCe | Minall: you just need ethernet |
| 23:17.56 | Minall | n-iCe: If I do that, I go to the screen when the pc searches for the hard drives, but totally frozen |
| 23:18.07 | Minall | Oh I see what you mean |
| 23:18.23 | *** join/#debian edog (~edog@alcotrash.org) |
| 23:18.26 | *** join/#debian Carno (~carno@unaffiliated/carnophage) |
| 23:18.30 | Minall | I'll try to download it, but why is this? what if the net install doesn't work either? |
| 23:18.40 | *** join/#debian Guest5555 (ab5b5073@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.171.91.80.115) |
| 23:18.58 | n-iCe | Minall: no idea actually |
| 23:19.09 | n-iCe | i'm going to install debian too |
| 23:19.10 | n-iCe | brb |
| 23:19.14 | Minall | Maybe I can't install debian in this pc exactly... |
| 23:19.19 | BCMM | n-iCe: i'm not quite sure i understand the question. do you already have a debian install, that you want to upgrade? or are you asking which ISO to use for a new install now? |
| 23:19.37 | *** join/#debian AndreasLutro (~andreas@lutro.me) |
| 23:20.37 | n-iCe | BCMM: I'm just asking if the testing version upgrades to the new version of debian with update && upgrade when a new version is released |
| 23:21.09 | BCMM | n-iCe: ok, so i'm going to assume you're talking about an already-installed copy of debian... |
| 23:21.30 | Tom-_ | Lady_Aleena, either that or you can show us the java error |
| 23:21.34 | BCMM | n-iCe: you can upgrade to a new debian release from within debian. you don't need to download a new iso and install it again |
| 23:21.35 | n-iCe | BCMM: no no |
| 23:21.49 | BCMM | n-iCe: but the process is not automatic. you will need to change your sources. |
| 23:21.53 | n-iCe | I don't use Debian, I WANT to install debian. |
| 23:22.09 | n-iCe | I need to change sources in stable |
| 23:22.12 | n-iCe | But what about testing |
| 23:22.36 | n-iCe | is my question, I'm a guy who hates upgrade to a new version from an already installed system I always do a clean install |
| 23:22.42 | BCMM | n-iCe: oh, hang on... is your question about what happens when you're running testing, and the release you're running becomes the new stable? |
| 23:23.00 | n-iCe | question is, is testing like a rolling release that I never need to do a clean install? |
| 23:23.07 | n-iCe | BCMM: yeeees |
| 23:23.19 | Minall | nice question btw |
| 23:23.23 | BCMM | n-iCe: in that case, it depends on whether you used the distro codename in your sources, or the word "testing" |
| 23:23.36 | n-iCe | but testing will be always testing, isn't? |
| 23:23.53 | n-iCe | so means I will have the lastest files and distro codename, and base, files etc? |
| 23:24.00 | n-iCe | no need to do a clean install anymore? |
| 23:24.03 | BCMM | n-iCe: i think a couple of examples will help. last week, buster was the testing distro, but now, it's the stable distro |
| 23:24.56 | BCMM | n-iCe: a user who had "buster" in their sources.list will still be on buster. so they will have switched from testing to stable, but not switched debian release |
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| 23:25.44 | n-iCe | but If I download testing, will it say testing or buster |
| 23:25.45 | BCMM | n-iCe: a user who had "testing" in their sources.list will have automatically upgraded to bullseye. they have switched to the next debian release, and stayed on testing |
| 23:25.53 | n-iCe | BCMM: exactly |
| 23:25.55 | n-iCe | ok ok |
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| 23:25.59 | Lady_Aleena | Tom-_, see http://fantasy.xecu.net/files/images/screenshot_jessie_java_erro.png |
| 23:26.11 | n-iCe | so no need to make a fresh install anymore |
| 23:26.20 | *** join/#debian The_Blue_Eyed_Gi (cc2c7048@204.44.112.72) |
| 23:26.21 | n-iCe | you will be always be in the last codename and in the last files |
| 23:26.37 | BCMM | n-iCe: i think the default sources.list uses the codename. but i'm not sure about that. i usually use debootstrap and write my own sources.list. |
| 23:26.38 | tfgbd_ | Why did my debian come with Matlab? |
| 23:26.51 | BCMM | tfgbd_: `aptitude why matlab` |
| 23:26.53 | Lady_Aleena | http://fantasy.xecu.net/files/images/screenshot_jessie_java_erro.png is the error I get when I try to open jessie's terminator. |
| 23:27.06 | tfgbd_ | (arm debian) |
| 23:27.13 | n-iCe | ok ok |
| 23:27.20 | n-iCe | think I'm just gonna install stable |
| 23:27.30 | BCMM | tfgbd_: is it debian for arm, or raspbian? |
| 23:27.31 | n-iCe | anyway, takes years to release a new update, right? |
| 23:27.38 | tfgbd_ | begins with an r |
| 23:27.39 | BCMM | n-iCe: usually about two years, yes |
| 23:27.45 | n-iCe | is not like ubuntu that releases every 2 months |
| 23:27.48 | BCMM | !raspbian |
| 23:27.48 | dpkg | Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support. https://www.raspbian.org/ |
| 23:27.49 | n-iCe | 6 months* |
| 23:28.31 | BCMM | tfgbd_: see above. personally i'd try #raspberrypi, #raspbian has been pretty quiet since the Foundation officially adopted raspbian |
| 23:28.48 | BCMM | tfgbd_: the debian project does not decide what goes in to raspbian images |
| 23:29.03 | tfgbd_ | You mean I can't apt-get it back? |
| 23:29.52 | BCMM | tfgbd_: i don't know. i only use lightweight raspbian installs with no desktop. if you want to find more people who know about raspbian, try an appropriate channel |
| 23:30.12 | *** join/#debian BaW (~BaW@unaffiliated/baw) |
| 23:30.21 | BCMM | n-iCe: debian releases approximately every two years, and it just released a couple of days ago. so stable is about as cutting-edge as it's ever going to be right now :) |
| 23:30.47 | n-iCe | BCMM: :D |
| 23:30.50 | n-iCe | what de do you use |
| 23:30.51 | n-iCe | DE |
| 23:31.04 | tfgbd_ | Perfect. But 14 years would be even better. |
| 23:31.18 | BCMM | n-iCe: who, me? |
| 23:31.30 | BCMM | n-iCe: kde plasma, on desktop |
| 23:31.39 | *** join/#debian monstar_ (~mitya@192.169.7.177) |
| 23:31.49 | BCMM | (my Pis are either headless or dedicated to kodi) |
| 23:31.56 | *** join/#debian disi (~tucked@c-73-93-54-155.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:32.30 | BCMM | tfgbd_: i know this is offtopic, but do you really mean matlab, not mathematica? |
| 23:32.35 | *** join/#debian argusbr (~tls@unaffiliated/argusbr) |
| 23:32.55 | tfgbd_ | Matlab |
| 23:33.10 | disi | i'm having an issue upgrading... i was tracking buster before, now i updated sources.list to stable and I'm trying to run `apt upgrade` but i'm getting " unable to make backup symlink for './usr/lib/apt/methods/https': No such file or directory" I was able to install apt-transport-https successfully, but to no avail. any tips? |
| 23:33.46 | BCMM | Lady_Aleena: am i missing something, or is 11 usually larger than 6? |
| 23:33.46 | disi | oh, that error shows up trying to unpack apt 1.8.2 over 1.8.1 |
| 23:34.16 | Lady_Aleena | BCMM, one would think so, unless it is just seeing the 1 and quitting after that. |
| 23:34.28 | disi | BCMM: in octal and decimal, it sure is :p |
| 23:34.45 | *** join/#debian lanelet (~lanelet@cpe-174-109-244-56.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 23:35.02 | Lady_Aleena | I decided to submit an issue on GitHub to the people who wrote the thing. |
| 23:35.07 | tfgbd_ | Did Douglas Boling ever come here? |
| 23:35.20 | mutante | what's his nick? |
| 23:35.22 | BCMM | disi: that might actually be a good point... some string to integer functions are liable to decide things are binary for no good reason |
| 23:35.27 | *** join/#debian toxync12 (~toxync12@223.72.46.237) |
| 23:35.28 | Lady_Aleena | But for now, I am stuck with awful looking results in terminal windows. |
| 23:38.52 | Starz0r | Is BTRFS still supported on Debian? I've made mistake and have zstd compression enabled on the drive. |
| 23:39.18 | Starz0r | Buster specifically, I'd like to decompress the entire drive now that zstd is turned off |
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| 23:40.22 | Tom-_ | Lady_Aleena, haha, one of those contradictory error messages |
| 23:40.26 | Tom-_ | you poor woman |
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| 23:40.49 | Tom-_ | normal approach would be to find a current version |
| 23:40.54 | Lady_Aleena | I hate when things don't make sense. |
| 23:41.08 | disi | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 May 6 01:41 /usr/lib/apt/methods/https -> '' |
| 23:41.12 | disi | huh... that doesn't seem right |
| 23:41.31 | Tom-_ | i don't know much about java, is this jessies.terminator (unrelated to Debian jessie, for those playing along at home) free and open source? |
| 23:41.49 | Tom-_ | disi, not sure i've ever seen a symlink to null before |
| 23:41.53 | Tom-_ | is it even possible to name a file null on unix? |
| 23:42.38 | disi | Tom-_: apparently :p |
| 23:42.40 | mutante | Tom-_: yea, "touch null ; file null" works for me |
| 23:42.54 | disi | this is WSL, so... |
| 23:43.21 | disi | maybe that matters? |
| 23:43.36 | mutante | the W is for Windows? |
| 23:43.45 | *** join/#debian epony (epony@unaffiliated/epony) |
| 23:43.47 | Lady_Aleena | Tom-_, I downloaded the .deb for what may be the most recent version, but I can't remember how to install from a .deb. |
| 23:44.06 | disi | mutante: yes :( |
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| 23:44.25 | *** join/#debian toxync12 (~toxync12@223.72.93.201) |
| 23:44.25 | Tom-_ | Lady_Aleena, dpkg -i something.deb |
| 23:44.27 | *** join/#debian swickrotation (~swickrota@wn-campus-nat-129-97-124-62.dynamic.uwaterloo.ca) |
| 23:44.34 | Tom-_ | or gdebi something.deb if you are in a GUI and you want a GUI |
| 23:45.09 | mutante | disi: for what it's worth, on my system that file just links to "http" in the same location |
| 23:45.14 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: dpkg -i |
| 23:45.20 | mutante | disi: "https: symbolic link to http" |
| 23:45.28 | disi | mutante: interesting, thank you |
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| 23:46.12 | Lady_Aleena | Tom-_, I am okay using a terminal to install packages. I just needed to know what to do. This may be the only thing that I have ever installed with a .deb file. I use apt-get 99.99% of the time. |
| 23:47.11 | Tom-_ | that's allowed :) |
| 23:48.21 | disi | mutante: ugh... there are a bunch of others that get hit behind that if i fix that manually |
| 23:48.30 | Lady_Aleena | Trying it now. |
| 23:48.47 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: i think apt install ./debfile will solve dependencies |
| 23:49.18 | disi | first /usr/lib/apt/methods/mirror+file now /usr/lib/apt/planners/dump |
| 23:49.55 | Lady_Aleena | Thank you Tom-_, LtL, and the channel at large for your patience. |
| 23:50.39 | Tom-_ | LtL, ah thanks, i forgot about that |
| 23:50.47 | Tom-_ | Lady_Aleena, no problem |
| 23:51.32 | mutante | disi: so everything that is a symlink breaks? then yes, i would expect it has to do with WSL |
| 23:51.33 | Lady_Aleena | Now I can horizontally scroll like I am used to. 8) |
| 23:51.47 | Tom-_ | ah great |
| 23:52.17 | disi | mutante: i dont think so... eg mirror+ftp -> mirror (so that's what i did for +file too). not sure what dump goes to |
| 23:52.19 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: i don't recall seeing a horizontal scroll in a terminal |
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| 23:55.18 | mutante | disi: https://github.com/Microsoft/WSL/issues/3611 https://github.com/microsoft/WSL/issues/3301 |
| 23:55.21 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: are you referring to vertical? as in scroll up? |
| 23:56.27 | Lady_Aleena | LtL, jessie's terminator horizontally scrolls (to the right). |
| 23:56.47 | *** join/#debian thatpythonguy (~john@74-84-75-66.client.mchsi.com) |
| 23:56.51 | LtL | everything just wraps for me, except certain editors. okay my terminator has none |
| 23:56.57 | Lady_Aleena | LtL, it also means I get clean looking columns with no line wrapping. |
| 23:57.06 | Tom-_ | very precise |
| 23:57.42 | LtL | well, columns show up fine as do file lists |
| 23:57.59 | Lady_Aleena | So for example, if I run dpkg -l, EACH row is one program without the end wrapping to the next line making the columns look bad. |
| 23:59.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1519] by debhelper |
| 23:59.04 | LtL | Lady_Aleena: with a term maxed dpkg -l doesn't need to wrap |
| 23:59.08 | mutante | Lady_Aleena: dpkg -l | column |
| 23:59.12 | LtL | for me |
| 23:59.12 | mutante | is that any better? |
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| 23:59.49 | Tom-_ | there's a column command? i think i'd forgotten about that. thanks |
