| 00:00.45 | maxcell_ | petn-randall, when i apt purge xfce4 he wants to remove openoffice as well, there is any way i uninstall everything but openoffice? |
| 00:00.54 | LtL | agio: its probably DPMS, type 'xset q' in a terminal. no root perms required |
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| 00:02.02 | agio | LtL: I'm interesting in knowing if debian has documentation for DPMS |
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| 00:02.23 | petn-randall | maxcell_: openoffice? Which OS release are you running? |
| 00:02.43 | maxcell_ | petn-randall, sorry, libreoffice |
| 00:03.02 | petn-randall | maxcell_: You can mark it as manually installed with `apt install libreoffice`. |
| 00:03.29 | LtL | agio: i cant say, don't know. |
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| 00:04.11 | maxcell_ | ok thank you very much petn-randall |
| 00:04.28 | maxcell_ | i will leave and do those changes |
| 00:04.31 | LtL | agio: man xset |
| 00:06.03 | agio | LtL: thanks :) |
| 00:06.05 | LtL | agio: i'm not sure if xset applies to a 'minimum' install. xset q will say a lot |
| 00:06.18 | LtL | agio: welcome |
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| 00:12.38 | agio | LtL: well, its a minimal install then I install xinit which - I think - is the point the xserver gets dragged in |
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| 00:13.20 | LtL | agio: https://superuser.com/questions/1218112/how-to-disable-screen-off-in-debian |
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| 00:19.35 | *** topic/#debian is Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.4 ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.10 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing, unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 00:45.08 | strive | Benefits of using Debian? |
| 00:45.59 | petn-randall | !why debian |
| 00:45.59 | dpkg | Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also http://www.debian.org/intro/free http://www.debian.org/intro/why_debian http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/talks/why_debian/ http://www.aboutdebian.com/ . As an added bonus, you get to ask questions in #debian. |
| 00:46.02 | petn-randall | strive: ^^^ |
| 00:46.31 | strive | Thanks. |
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| 00:48.28 | mrxrobot | strive: There are no more doubts now |
| 00:48.35 | strive | haha, none! |
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| 00:48.44 | mrxrobot | haha |
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| 00:55.14 | Chris_A | !why Slayer |
| 00:55.37 | Chris_A | lol |
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| 01:25.14 | A|an | why is there a transitional package (i guess!) for icedove AND a separate package for thunderbird? Can you place the contents of .icedove from a previous installation into .thunderbird? |
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| 01:38.20 | buu | Hey, I have a debian box booted without a monitor with an nvidia card as its only video output. Now that it's running I can ssh into as normal but if I plug a monitor into it, the monitor shows no signal, even when I tap on the keyboard |
| 01:38.30 | buu | Is there a trick to get debian to launch the framebuffer? |
| 01:38.34 | buu | (Since X isn't running) |
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| 01:43.54 | wtfdeb | Is there something wrong with the repos? I'm unable to get packages like sudo.. |
| 01:45.04 | somiaj | wtfdeb: what is the output of apt policy on your system, and your /etc/apt/sources.list, and any files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/, put output at paste.debian.net |
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| 01:48.30 | wtfdeb | paste.debian.net/1030609/ fresh stretch install changed to ftp.us from deb. But no difference |
| 01:49.29 | annadane | !stretch sources.list |
| 01:49.30 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main" "deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main". Be sure to run «apt update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <stretch/updates> <stretch-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list". |
| 01:49.45 | annadane | change your sources list to what dpkg says |
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| 01:50.04 | somiaj | you are missing the main stretch sources, you only have secuirty updates, and stretch-updates, you don't actually have 'stretch' repos |
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| 01:50.41 | wtfdeb | Ahhh weird thanks guys |
| 01:51.07 | annadane | and then type apt update - and probably apt upgrade seeing as how you had weird stuff in the sources |
| 01:51.34 | annadane | not sure why the installer did that or why it failed |
| 01:52.56 | somiaj | well they do ahve all their security updates installed jsut fine, its just the main software. |
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| 01:54.10 | wtfdeb | That's got it thanks guys think its because I used CD and no network connection ( I had missing firmware ) |
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| 01:59.10 | buu | So how do I kick the terminal framebuffer into gear? |
| 02:00.07 | annadane | (actually, apt update will tell you how many packages you can upgrade if any, so never mind) |
| 02:00.16 | annadane | (obviously if there are upgradeable packages upgrade them) |
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| 02:11.06 | rant | I'm a bit concerned about the way vlc is behaving on my system I been using it to watch movies and tv and its using a LOT of ram.. I've started it this time playing a short 20mb or so 3min low res file on loop and its been going about 20min now and its using 1.8G of ram which is over half my ram |
| 02:11.52 | rant | only a small portion of my nearly totally used ram is showing as light green on my graph which is shared/cache which can be reclaimed |
| 02:13.24 | rant | just wondering what thoughts are on this and if anyone can think of how I might be able to multi-task better.. I got 4g ram I should be able to play a video and a game I'd think |
| 02:14.19 | rant | I could maybe see this kinda usage being normal i I were decoding a dvd right now or playing a long high res file thata was 1gb or more but to have it doing it with a small low res clip seems ridiculous |
| 02:14.49 | somiaj | ditch vlc and use mpv? I'm not quiet sure why vlc is using so much ram, maybe it is just buffering things because it can and the memeory is available |
| 02:15.52 | rant | yeah but I'd think buffers would show as light green my graph is more than 80% dark green which is not buffers |
| 02:16.07 | Javabean | are you upscaling the video you are watching? |
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| 02:16.39 | rant | yes this current clip is roughly 800x600 and the monitor its on is 1024x768 and its fullscreen |
| 02:17.12 | rant | most my ripped tv/movies are much smaller than this to save space so they're being upscaled more |
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| 02:17.50 | rant | I can certainly try other players and see.. I like vlc though its just being annoying :P |
| 02:18.02 | Javabean | if its on repeat it would make sense to keep the upscaled copy in ram to play |
| 02:18.16 | rant | it doesnt to it right away.. it is more like somiaj suggests cause ithappens pver time |
| 02:18.33 | rant | which is odd in this test case cause its just looping the same 20mb 3min file |
| 02:19.15 | rant | yeah but it also does it when I got hundreds of files in playlist on shuffle |
| 02:19.42 | rant | but it does as I said not do it the first time it takes awhile for it to eat available ram |
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| 02:20.50 | rant | hmm never noticed rtmpdump and yt-dl were deps of mpv before |
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| 02:21.29 | rant | those are for getting streaming videos from the internet.. which is an odd dep for a media player.. seems like more a suggests/recommends kinda thing |
| 02:21.35 | somiaj | yt-dl is recommended |
| 02:21.50 | rant | ah.. apt installs recommends by default? |
| 02:21.54 | somiaj | yup |
| 02:22.07 | rant | I started using apt but not fully aware of all its diferences |
| 02:22.29 | rant | i still use apt-cache at times cause it doesnt format its output like apt search |
| 02:24.14 | rant | somiaj: is there some trick to getting some UI on this mpv? this having to drag/drop files thing is annoying |
| 02:24.42 | rant | i'd just use mplayer over this if I gotta do stuff the hard way :P |
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| 02:26.44 | rant | I dont readily see playlist functions, or even simple load file with mpv.. which now that I recall is why I removed it the first time :P |
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| 02:27.41 | Javabean | i did the same with dragon |
| 02:28.09 | somiaj | rant: I don't think so, mpv is command line which is why I like it. I did write a small python script to control it. |
| 02:28.20 | rant | the new style UI of many gnome apps like the Videos, Boxes, etc where its sparse chrome is fugly to me too |
| 02:28.36 | somiaj | mpv file.playlist will paly the play list, or mpv *mp3 will create a playlist |
| 02:28.46 | rant | yeah I know mplayer well I'd sooner use that than this |
| 02:29.37 | rant | really I like vlc.. it has a media browser I can save all my various media locations and make playlists easily.. has very flexible ui |
| 02:30.22 | farruinn | Have you checked to see if there is a bug filed for the memory behavior? |
| 02:30.25 | Javabean | yes vlc is far better as a gui video player, but i unfortunately don't know why you are having this kind of issue |
| 02:30.29 | somiaj | mpv is the mplayer fork, that I've gotten use to |
| 02:30.44 | somiaj | mplayer was dead for a while, it came back, but I still think mpv has some nice features |
| 02:30.50 | rant | gmplayer was never good but it had a better ui than this |
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| 02:32.48 | somiaj | I mianly switched ot mpv in jessie, because mplayer was removed from debian |
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| 02:33.42 | rant | hmm I didnt know that |
| 02:34.05 | rant | cause I had armbian jessie on my opi lite which uses debian repos and I had mplayer |
| 02:34.22 | rant | pretty sure I didnt compile it or anything |
| 02:34.34 | rant | I havent compiled mplayer in like a decade |
| 02:35.27 | somiaj | there was an mplayer transtiional package that pointed at mplayer2 |
| 02:35.42 | somiaj | and mplayer was an alternative that could either run mplayer2 or mpv |
| 02:35.47 | somiaj | I switched to mpv at tha ttime. |
| 02:35.55 | somiaj | then mplayer came back in stretch |
| 02:35.58 | somiaj | and mplayer2 died |
| 02:36.10 | somiaj | oh mplayer2 transitioned to mpv |
| 02:37.16 | rant | oh well I guess I'll have to see i I can lower usage o vlc and if not I either gotta find another suitable player or write a script around mplayer |
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| 02:40.04 | rant | programmers neet to stop so leaisurely designing software as though we all have super computers now |
| 02:40.59 | somiaj | yea, in jessie mplayer was a virtual package |
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| 02:41.44 | somiaj | though there hasn't been much change in mplayer, I think I went with mpv as it removed a good amount of the older stuff from player, and suit my needs, though as I said I use a python script to talk to its api |
| 02:41.56 | somiaj | but still command line, I don't do much with gui stuff |
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| 03:05.52 | strive | Will the Debian installer detect wifi as well as ethernet? |
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| 03:07.36 | dvs | strive, chances you'll need the firmware iso to detect wifi |
| 03:07.49 | strive | dvs: Ah, ok. Thanks. |
| 03:08.21 | strive | I've got the dvd1 iso |
| 03:08.31 | strive | Firmware not included on there, eh? |
| 03:08.42 | dvs | probably not |
| 03:08.51 | strive | Darn. |
| 03:09.01 | strive | !firmware |
| 03:09.01 | dpkg | Firmware is software to operate electronic devices, usually contained in EPROM or flash memory. Some Linux kernel drivers require firmware to be provided from userspace, notably for <WiFi> devices. Most firmware files are not part of a Debian release as they do not conform to the <DFSG>; some are available via <contrib> and <non-free> packages, ask me about <search>. See also <installer firmware>. http://wiki.debian.org/Firmware |
| 03:09.13 | dvs | !tell strive about firmware iso |
| 03:10.47 | strive | Does this sound about right? firmware-9.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso |
| 03:10.56 | dvs | yes |
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| 03:20.37 | strive | Thanks. |
| 03:20.49 | dvs | np |
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| 03:25.48 | somiaj | strive: note, you could isntall from the dvd1 image you have, and just copy over the firmware after the install is complete |
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| 05:37.42 | altker128 | Hey guys. I want to copy a Debian 9.4 install from one HDD to another. I use gparted for that but I know the UUID for the drive will be different. Besides updating grub & fstab, what else needs to be done? |
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| 05:39.24 | altker128 | I guess a tune2fs and update the UUID? |
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| 05:53.53 | well_laid_lawn | I just use cp -a |
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| 06:04.17 | Guest59144 | i have a problem with system . Any time i click on panel at "Places" Vlc opens it self . any help ? |
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| 06:07.30 | annadane | and you're on parrot |
| 06:07.39 | annadane | we went through this earlier |
| 06:07.42 | Guest59144 | yes :) |
| 06:08.21 | its-a-me | hello guys, after fresh install, for some reason sddm (KDE) doesn.t start immediately. Pc always boots in a TTY1, then after a while I'm finally greeted by the KDE login. "sudo systemctl get-default" gives graphical.target. |
| 06:08.22 | annadane | Kelsar suggested doing something with mime types and i suggested using mozo to edit menu entries |
| 06:08.25 | annadane | beyond that, we can't help you |
| 06:08.44 | Guest59144 | but they dont answer for ages ! :) |
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| 06:08.57 | Guest59144 | :) |
| 06:09.08 | annadane | at least say you're on parrot... *i* happen to know this because i was here |
| 06:09.13 | annadane | to everyone else, you're "on debian" |
| 06:09.41 | annadane | its-a-me, did you install KDE via the installer? |
| 06:09.54 | Guest59144 | ok sorry . |
| 06:09.58 | its-a-me | yes |
| 06:10.37 | annadane | i would say we *may* be able to help you if you're on parrot (even though as you've been told it's against policy to do so) when there's no other activity in the room. but now, someone has a debian question, so that takes priority |
| 06:10.47 | kupp | its-a-me: i had the same problem with nvidia-driver recently |
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| 06:11.07 | annadane | !they don't know |
| 06:11.07 | dpkg | We're sorry your distro's channel isn't being helpful, but that doesn't make it appropriate to use #debian for non-Debian questions. Please go back to your channel and wait patiently for better help, or install Debian and party with us. |
| 06:11.21 | Guest59144 | annadane, i can wait :) thank you |
| 06:11.33 | annadane | so you can wait here, but not in the parrot channel? |
| 06:11.35 | annadane | ok |
| 06:11.37 | annadane | whatever |
| 06:12.33 | its-a-me | #kupp I only have igpu on a thinkpad |
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| 06:13.16 | Guest59144 | dpkg, why are you so xenophobic ? parrot is debian . and is linux and i dont feel (knowing how helpful is a linux community) braking any "rools" |
| 06:13.17 | dpkg | Guest59144: what are you talking about? |
| 06:13.30 | annadane | dpkg is simply a bot, which i invoked via !they don't know |
| 06:13.30 | dpkg | annadane: I wish you would RTFM. |
| 06:13.47 | annadane | the "rools" are in place for a reason |
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| 06:15.17 | Guest59144 | annadane, i am sure they are but ill say again that parrot is still a debian and i could understand complaining if i am looking for help on lets say arch or suse channel |
| 06:15.27 | annadane | !based on debian |
| 06:15.27 | dpkg | Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent. |
| 06:15.36 | annadane | and now i'll say nothing more about it, you've heard my point |
| 06:15.37 | kupp | its-a-me: try «sddm --test-mode» |
| 06:15.43 | Guest59144 | well ill really appreciate any help |
| 06:16.04 | kupp | !dpkg |
| 06:16.05 | dpkg | rumour has it, dpkg is the program used by Debian to install and remove packages, "man dpkg". Also ask me about <reference>. The main info bot in #debian is also called dpkg; ask me about <dpkgbot>. |
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| 06:16.27 | kupp | !man dpkg |
| 06:16.27 | dpkg | man dpkg is probably at http://manpages.debian.org/dpkg where you can view many Debian man pages. Ask me about <docs> <dmp> <grounding> <search>. |
| 06:16.37 | kupp | pretty) |
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| 06:17.58 | agio | !dpkgbot |
| 06:17.58 | dpkg | Please visit http://wiki.debian.org/IRC/DpkgBot to learn how to effectively search the factoids database for FAQ, and not flood in the channel with !tell <who> about <what>. Also ask me about <msg the bot>. We ask that you learn to search for yourself first, unless it is a specific problem. Many questions are asked repeatedly, and the factoid database can be of great help to you. Ask me about <search dpkg>. |
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| 06:18.10 | annadane | please don't spam bot factoids |
| 06:18.15 | annadane | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:18.24 | Guest59144 | annadane, "so you can wait here, but not in the parrot channel?" i never said i am not waiting there. you can go there and see if you "dont trust me " |
| 06:19.43 | Guest59144 | it is simple . I have a problem and since "my"channel does not answer for ages i am trying else where is that a crime ? |
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| 06:21.01 | Guest59144 | annadane, do you thing it would be a good idea to "apt purge vlc" ? |
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| 06:21.57 | annadane | it's a "crime" according to the other people who have asked you not to ask here about it. sure, purge vlc and reinstall it, see if it helps, but i doubt it |
| 06:22.43 | Guest59144 | ok ill try thank you |
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| 06:23.53 | its-a-me | kupp: it failed to start. But idk if it matters that I'm already in a GUI |
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| 06:24.39 | Guest59144 | annadane, what other channel may be "ok" for me to search for help since "parrot" is "dead" |
| 06:25.16 | annadane | try the mailing list? https://lists.parrotsec.org/listinfo |
| 06:25.40 | annadane | or https://docs.parrotsec.org/community |
| 06:26.30 | Guest59144 | thank you . |
| 06:27.20 | annadane | its-a-me, what does systemd-analyze blame say? |
| 06:27.28 | annadane | post to paste.debian.net if anything, but may give some clues |
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| 06:28.32 | its-a-me | annadane: big list with timings on the left, what should I look for? |
| 06:28.43 | annadane | just whatever's taking the longest |
| 06:28.51 | annadane | may be able to narrow down the problem |
| 06:29.00 | its-a-me | keyboad setup service almost 2s |
| 06:29.16 | its-a-me | then Modemmanager, Network manager |
| 06:29.26 | annadane | beyond that though i'm not really sure how to diagnose your issue, sorry |
| 06:29.26 | its-a-me | udisks2 service |
| 06:29.32 | annadane | maybe someone more knowledgeable knows |
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| 06:31.39 | its-a-me | annadane: ty, was very helpul actually. I run without 'blame' and it says that graphical.target reached afet |
| 06:31.48 | its-a-me | after almost 4seconds in userspace |
| 06:32.41 | annadane | i know KDE can sometimes be slow on some hard drives but it shouldn't take that long to go from tty to sddm login screen |
| 06:32.54 | annadane | graphics card issue? i rather doubt it |
| 06:32.58 | its-a-me | and it's an ssd |
| 06:33.04 | annadane | yeah, well, there you go |
| 06:33.29 | annadane | its-a-me, it's also possible that that was a one-time thing and the next time you startup your computer the delay won't be as long |
| 06:33.54 | annadane | initial post install configuration, or something |
| 06:34.00 | annadane | but i really don't know what i'm talking about |
| 06:35.35 | its-a-me | it does it always, I've rebooted many times |
| 06:36.14 | its-a-me | and if I don't login in the tty it stays there |
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| 06:36.38 | annadane | perhaps also check out systemd-analyze critical-chain |
| 06:37.14 | its-a-me | after I login, a couple of seconds pass and I'm greet by sddm's login screen - and have to type pw again |
| 06:37.24 | mike__ | annadane, yes you was right . obviously after "purge" it was ok but soon i installed it again same problem |
| 06:38.02 | annadane | well then try the mozo package |
| 06:38.17 | annadane | i don't know why vlc opens the same video |
| 06:38.24 | annadane | maybe something in /tmp being weird |
| 06:39.36 | mike__ | it is not only why it opens same vide but worst -why it opens it self without "askin" just the moment i click on "videos" folder :P |
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| 06:43.50 | mike__ | annadane, i found that https://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?t=83072 it seams not only me facing that issue |
| 06:44.48 | annadane | yes well the problem is that that forum discussion talks about windows |
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| 06:45.17 | mike__ | lol :) |
| 06:45.38 | mike__ | i told you i am a noob :) |
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| 06:46.50 | annadane | sorry. i have no clue how to solve your problem. |
| 06:47.30 | annadane | and i still think it's inadvisable to run a pentesting distribution as a desktop especially if you're a noob |
| 06:47.36 | mike__ | understand . Thank you for your patience :) |
| 06:48.17 | mike__ | annadane, i told you why i run it . i had several problems on other distros |
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| 06:48.34 | annadane | yes and i get that but you're going to end up running into other problems |
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| 06:49.49 | mike__ | i am really tired of trying all linux distros over and over again just to have a working system :( |
| 06:50.35 | annadane | then i'd stop distro jumping and actually figuring out what your problems are |
| 06:50.47 | annadane | and by figuring out i mean asking support resources of your distro |
| 06:50.54 | annadane | if you run debian, and it's broken, ask us, we'll try to help |
| 06:52.41 | annadane | and i'm not trying to be a jerk on purpose |
| 06:52.59 | mike__ | annadane, what command may show me the real error why it happens ? like journal? so i can research for the exact error ? |
| 06:53.30 | annadane | vlc? not sure what you might look for. maybe /var/log/syslog but i really don't know what'd help you diagnose something like that |
| 06:53.34 | mike__ | annadane, i never said you are :) actually you seams to be really cool person |
| 06:54.08 | annadane | journalctl -f may be useful |
| 06:54.34 | annadane | from the man page of journalctl (in debian unstable, anyway): "Show only the most recent journal entries, and continuously print new entries as they are appended to the journal" |
| 06:54.54 | annadane | (which is also the case in debian stable, but that's irrelevant) |
| 06:56.12 | mike__ | nope there is nothing about it :( |
| 06:56.43 | annadane | in other words, go to a terminal, type journalctl -f, try to open your videos folder, and when vlc opens instead you'll be able to see the output |
| 06:56.52 | annadane | in your terminal |
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| 06:56.59 | annadane | beyond that i don't know how else to solve it |
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| 06:57.25 | annadane | you can try looking in /tmp for vlc related items and deleting it, or reset the preferences to default in vlc |
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| 06:58.30 | mike__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:58.47 | mike__ | that what journal shows me |
| 06:59.28 | mike__ | but i think it is about firewall not vlc |
| 06:59.50 | annadane | mike__, this is from kali linux but it's the same idea as parrot, see the section "is kali linux right for you" and note that it advises against using it as a daily desktop https://docs.kali.org/introduction/should-i-use-kali-linux |
| 07:00.40 | mike__ | i am not using kali linux |
| 07:00.48 | annadane | i *know* you're not, i just said that |
| 07:00.54 | mike__ | ah ok :) |
| 07:00.56 | annadane | the POINT is, kali and parrot are pentesting distributions |
| 07:01.13 | annadane | this is different from something like debian, which is perfectly safe to run as a normal desktop |
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| 07:01.37 | mike__ | well it may be but there is parrot home version without any pentesting tools just a normal distro |
| 07:01.42 | annadane | if you really want something beginner friendly, maybe just try ubuntu |
| 07:01.45 | mike__ | and that is the one i own |
| 07:01.45 | annadane | or linux mint |
| 07:01.53 | annadane | those, you might be able to use better |
| 07:02.21 | annadane | you may not even get the problems you encountered with debian, who knows |
| 07:02.24 | mike__ | i started with those two . it was a nightmare i can not even count problems i had |
| 07:02.27 | annadane | fine... |
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| 07:02.47 | mike__ | i have no clue if that is my hardware issue or what ? |
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| 07:03.55 | annadane | the other problems you had? well, what problems? you said something about gpu and wifi |
| 07:04.15 | mike__ | annadane, what means "(sandboxed or root)" that vat vlc panel shows |
| 07:04.22 | annadane | i don't know |
| 07:05.07 | mike__ | yes i had nonstop wifi problems on both ubuntu and mint and crashes after installing nvidia |
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| 07:05.43 | annadane | i'll add that constantly switching distros to solve problems is rushing solutions which you're explicitly advised not to do in linux |
| 07:06.03 | annadane | linux is finding the cause of a problem and then investigating a solution carefully |
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| 07:06.24 | mike__ | here the only problem is the vlc which i can just uninstall but i would like to know what is the reason so i learn more |
| 07:06.31 | annadane | ok, so you have less problems apparently with parrot than you did with ubuntu, mint, debian |
| 07:06.43 | annadane | but what if you run into more problems with parrot later? |
| 07:06.53 | annadane | are you absolutely sure parrot is the key to solving all of this? |
| 07:07.03 | annadane | and do you know *why* it would be? |
| 07:07.11 | annadane | (the answer is no) |
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| 07:08.08 | annadane | and i don't mean that to be insulting, everyone has to start somewhere, we were all noobs once |
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| 07:08.24 | annadane | but the point is to accumulate knowledge, not try random things until stuff works |
| 07:08.30 | mike__ | no of course not but i just like the look of it and after switching from so many distros i am really tired :) i would love to just settle it and use it whatever distro it is as long it is linux |
| 07:09.27 | mike__ | you are absolutely right but noobs like me probably would choose anything that works and then slowly learn . |
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| 07:11.01 | annadane | debian is fine, the only sort of problems people might have is debian's stance towards non-free software, which might mean that things like wifi won't work without installing firmware, and things of that nature |
| 07:11.19 | annadane | which we can tell you how to do |
| 07:11.38 | annadane | and i have nothing to argue for here, the debian project isn't paying me to say this |
| 07:11.40 | mike__ | linux is really addictive i would already give up after all problems but after i tried once i simply dont see me going back to windows |
| 07:11.57 | annadane | it's just simply more practical to use a general purpose distro like debian, mint, ubuntu etc rather than kali/parot |
| 07:12.00 | annadane | parrot* |
| 07:12.21 | annadane | well it's more addictive if you actually learn how to solve problems |
| 07:12.30 | dgp | If you're just trying to find something to replace Widnows you might as well stay there or buy a Mac |
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| 07:13.01 | mike__ | Mac ? hm i am a Louis Rossmann subscriber :) |
| 07:13.37 | annadane | and actually ubuntu is kind of a bad example because people have had more problems with it compared to debian |
| 07:13.40 | mike__ | and buy anything now is not an option in my condition :) |
| 07:13.44 | annadane | debian tends to be of a superior technical quality |
| 07:14.25 | annadane | debian stable essentially is made to never break, not that it always succeeds but it aims to be robust |
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| 07:16.01 | jim | annadane, another thing we often experience is when people want to (for example) run make install into a dir like /usr or /usr/local, because they don't think whatever they're making is available in debian... often, it is |
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| 07:16.28 | rdz | hey all.. how comes Debian 8 comes with a newer version of clamav-daemon than Debian 9? |
| 07:16.28 | annadane | well, quite. the repository has very many packages |
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| 07:16.58 | jim | yep, I watched part of its growth |
| 07:17.05 | annadane | anyway, this all comes across as a sales pitch and it's not, i just think you're going to have far less headaches with something like debian and have in the long run fewer problems |
| 07:17.23 | annadane | as long as you *don't blindly try things* |
| 07:17.27 | mike__ | i am now really confused . (trying to search for answer) if i do cd /home/mike/Videos then ls there is nothing ! |
| 07:17.32 | rdz | Stretch: 0.99.4+dfsg-1+deb9u1, Jessie: 0.100.0+dfsg-0+deb8u1 |
| 07:17.54 | annadane | reading https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian for example would be a very good start |
| 07:18.04 | jim | mike__, so you haven't put a video there? |
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| 07:19.03 | mike__ | well it has videos :) that what confuses me :) and also if there is nothing how vlc plays it the moment i click on "Videos" |
| 07:19.05 | jim | the thing that creates the plain user in the installer also makes a handful of empty dirs |
| 07:19.27 | jim | Downloads, music, videos, others |
| 07:19.41 | annadane | jim, i don't know if you're following the conversation but mike__ is using parrot |
| 07:20.00 | annadane | be aware of that before you start trying to apply debian specific advice |
| 07:20.26 | jim | ok |
| 07:20.46 | jim | is parrot a dist? |
| 07:20.49 | annadane | it is |
| 07:20.51 | mike__ | oh no sorry my mistake there is a folder "popcorntime" and there are videos . but still ... |
| 07:20.54 | annadane | !tell jim about parrot |
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| 07:21.18 | mike__ | yes jim |
| 07:21.24 | mike__ | hello |
| 07:21.31 | jim | hi |
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| 07:22.55 | jim | annadane, if you want, you can tell me the factoid name, it's less typing than all that ! stuff :) |
| 07:23.19 | annadane | pah. i'm on irc 14 hours a day, i'm a fast typer |
| 07:23.41 | mike__ | so jim if i click on "Videos" immediately vlc opens with the same video every time by it self . on "Videos" folder i have popcorn time folder but i can reach it anyway since the vlc opens befor that action (if that make sense) |
| 07:23.47 | jim | wow, that's a lot! |
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| 07:24.25 | mike__ | can't* |
| 07:24.35 | jim | mike__, dunno how to explain that |
| 07:25.00 | jim | I'm not that familiar with parrot |
| 07:25.08 | mike__ | reinstalling vlc did not work |
| 07:25.18 | mike__ | ok jim thx anyway :) |
| 07:25.18 | annadane | mike__ is also using MATE |
| 07:25.30 | jim | welcome |
| 07:25.32 | annadane | i think that's what he means by video, he selects it via the MATE panel |
| 07:25.44 | mike__ | yes indeed |
| 07:26.09 | mike__ | is there a way i can record that action to show you ? |
| 07:26.32 | jim | so maybe that video he gets is in some dir other than ~/Videos? |
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| 07:26.49 | annadane | well i'm an idiot and closed irc by mistake |
| 07:26.51 | annadane | ...hi |
| 07:26.57 | mike__ | ââ[mike@parrot]â[~/Videos] |
| 07:26.57 | mike__ | ââââ¼ $ls |
| 07:26.57 | mike__ | 'Popcorn Time' |
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| 07:28.24 | jim | annadane, we've all done it, it's not much of a big deal (one place where it might be is where you're helping someone who is as yet unfamiliar with irc) |
| 07:28.32 | mike__ | the videos are in Popcorn but via panel the moment i click on videos istead of opening "Popcorn" and then choose a video vlc opens immediately it self with one same video over and over again |
| 07:29.01 | mike__ | jim yes i am here few weeks |
| 07:29.06 | annadane | and so i suggested to mike__ to try the mozo package (if it exists in parrot) to edit menu entries, and another user earlier suggested to try editing mime types |
| 07:29.23 | mike__ | solving problems and giving up again and again :) |
| 07:29.56 | jim | yeah I kinda know how that can be |
| 07:30.12 | mike__ | oh annadane i didnt knew it was to me that mozo. sorry i thought you was helping the other guy |
| 07:30.20 | mike__ | ill check now thx |
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| 07:30.34 | mike__ | sudo apt install mozo ? |
| 07:30.38 | annadane | yes |
| 07:31.11 | annadane | but this may not help, i have no idea what's causing the problem |
| 07:31.13 | mike__ | mozo is already the newest version (1.20.0-1). |
| 07:31.13 | mike__ | mozo set to manually installed. |
| 07:31.19 | annadane | fine so you already have it |
| 07:31.41 | annadane | in fact i'm 100% it won't help, on reflection |
| 07:31.46 | annadane | 100% sure* |
| 07:32.26 | mike__ | what help is purge vlc :) the i can operate on that folder but is that a solution ? :) |
| 07:32.37 | annadane | mike__, why not try asking reddit? go on reddit.com/r/linuxquestions, specify you're using parrot, they might be able to help you |
| 07:32.58 | mike__ | sure |
| 07:32.59 | mike__ | thx |
| 07:33.25 | annadane | or https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-general-1/ |
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| 07:34.17 | mike__ | ok being honest i dont like forums coz it take sometimes days to get simple answer :) |
| 07:35.05 | annadane | you're already getting days to get an answer, and this is anything but "simple" |
| 07:35.21 | mike__ | lol you are right |
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| 07:35.30 | annadane | especially asking in a debian channel for parrot questions |
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| 07:36.22 | mike__ | i am wonder if i mv the content of "videos" elsewhere if the same is gonna happen . |
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| 07:40.37 | mike__ | hm now i changed the "preferred applications" "multimedia" from vlc to mpv but still the same problem :) |
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| 07:41.39 | annadane | none of that is guaranteed to work, why not ask in one of those places i linked and get a real solution |
| 07:42.12 | mike__ | you also mentioned that deleting something on /tmp/... may help ? but since i purged it it wont delete it self ? |
| 07:42.43 | mike__ | annadane, yes i am on it meanwhile |
| 07:43.20 | mike__ | i am registering now on both |
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| 07:44.53 | mike__ | ill try also to delete that one video that vlc wanna play over and over to see what happens then maybe i delete them all ? |
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| 07:50.30 | gerforce_ | how can i mount a usb stick with rw permission when i try to. it prompts me: write protected, read-only |
| 07:50.37 | annadane | if you "delete" it by moving it to the trash bin it ought to be recoverable, if you want to keep it. if you delete it via rm, it's pretty much gone |
| 07:51.22 | annadane | gerforce_, using the mount command normally doesn't work? |
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| 07:53.05 | annadane | as root you ought to just be able to mount <device> <mount point> |
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| 07:53.50 | altker128 | Hey guys, what's your suggested way to clone/copy modern GPT-based installs from one drive to another |
| 07:53.50 | Linpassion | hello |
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| 07:54.02 | gerforce_ | annadane:sudo mount -o rw /dev/sdb1 /mnt |
| 07:54.23 | mike__ | well you are right but i dont know how to move to trash via terminal . on gui i can not |
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| 07:54.34 | gerforce_ | annadane: it doesn't work. it says: write-protected filesystem |
| 07:55.02 | Linpassion | I'll try Debian 9 under my laptop, began from Slackware. What tool Must use do add programs? |
| 07:55.22 | annadane | gerforce_, try --rw? |
| 07:55.33 | annadane | per the man page |
| 07:55.42 | annadane | Linpassion, usually people use apt |
| 07:55.52 | annadane | or some people prefer synaptic if they want a GUI |
| 07:55.55 | annadane | i just use apt |
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| 07:56.23 | burn129 | gerforce_, which filesystem do you try to mount? I had those issues too with HFS+... |
| 07:56.29 | Linpassion | Whit it chan I add new programs like Inkscape? |
| 07:56.34 | annadane | sure |
| 07:56.41 | annadane | ,v inkscape |
| 07:56.42 | judd | Package: inkscape on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.48.3.1-1.3; jessie: 0.48.5-3; jessie-backports: 0.92.1-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 0.92.1-1; buster: 0.92.3-2; sid: 0.92.3-2 |
| 07:56.47 | annadane | yup, it's in stretch |
| 07:56.55 | annadane | "apt install inkscape" |
| 07:57.29 | gerforce_ | annadane: still write-protected |
| 07:57.32 | Linpassion | Ok whising dependieces it's resolved |
| 07:58.38 | Linpassion | I must configure repository or It's set-up by default? |
| 07:58.50 | peterfarge | Hi, I rented a vServer in the Internet with Debain 9.4. "ip a" shows me his public IP address. After I added a ICMP rule in the Firewall Interface, I can ping him. I have installed openssh-server and added a rule for port 22 and restarted the server, but I cant reach him from outside. "service ssh status" says that the server is running on port 22. Is there something additional I have to do? |
| 07:58.55 | tdn | What is a good web forum software package that is included in Debian? Or should I just avoid the debian distributed packages for web applications and instaed go for upstream dists? |
| 07:59.10 | annadane | Linpassion, it depends what you want, if you want non-free software you'll need to add contrib and non-free to your sources list |
| 07:59.18 | annadane | otherwise, it ought to have been already set up by the installer |
| 07:59.45 | Linpassion | thanks annadane |
| 07:59.46 | annadane | web forum? hmm... no idea |
| 07:59.54 | annadane | wordpress...? |
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| 08:00.23 | Linpassion | have a nice day |
| 08:00.26 | tdn | annadane, wordpress is a full CMS/blog, right? Does it include a forum? |
| 08:00.33 | annadane | no clue, sorry |
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| 08:00.37 | tdn | annadane, it does not have a good security record, does it? |
| 08:00.49 | annadane | well, if it's in stable it's probably fine |
| 08:00.50 | annadane | ,v wordpress |
| 08:00.51 | judd | Package: wordpress on amd64 -- wheezy: 3.6.1+dfsg-1~deb7u10; wheezy-security: 3.6.1+dfsg-1~deb7u21; jessie: 4.1+dfsg-1+deb8u17; jessie-security: 4.1+dfsg-1+deb8u17; jessie-backports: 4.7.5+dfsg-2+deb9u2~bpo8+1; stretch: 4.7.5+dfsg-2+deb9u2; stretch-proposed-updates: 4.7.5+dfsg-2+deb9u3; stretch-security: 4.7.5+dfsg-2+deb9u3; buster: 4.9.5+dfsg1-1; sid: 4.9.5+dfsg1-1 |
| 08:01.00 | tdn | What is the best way to install a specific packageas from non-free (netperf) without enabling the full non-free source? |
| 08:01.12 | annadane | which it is... but yeah i've heard wordpress is frequently attacked |
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| 08:01.57 | annadane | well you can backport it yourself if you have access to the source |
| 08:02.11 | annadane | not sure why you wouldn't just want to enable the source though |
| 08:02.29 | annadane | source code i mean, in the first instance, sources.list in the second instance |
| 08:02.58 | annadane | but anyway, packages in debian stable do get the full support of the security team so wordpress should be fine, but i'm unsure about forum applications |
| 08:03.07 | agio | tdn: you can download and install the package manually - but without enabling the non-free section for updates or security lists - you won't get automatic updates |
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| 08:05.18 | annadane | ok ok ok i'm going to bed good night |
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| 08:06.30 | FinalX | annadane: wordpress is one of the very many pieces of software that's directly hooked into the web that's being attacked. difference is that it gets security fixes extremely fast after one has been found and is automatically fixed. you do have to keep into account that 3rd party modules you can install are _not_ part of wordpress and can be riddled with malware themselves, or of bad coding quality and thus |
| 08:06.32 | FinalX | vulnerable. on top of that, you can't always count on the creator of such a plugin or theme to even fix problems. it's best to stick with wordpress itself and major, trusted company plugins. but that's not just with wordpress. goes for any CMS/software. |
| 08:06.45 | FinalX | oh, already left |
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| 08:10.03 | peterfarge | Hi, I rented a vServer in the Internet with Debain 9.4. "ip a" shows me his public IP address. After I added a ICMP rule in the Firewall Interface, I can ping him. I have installed openssh-server and added a rule for port 22 and restarted the server, but I cant reach him from outside. "service ssh status" says that the server is running on port 22. Is there something additional I have to do? |
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| 08:18.37 | petn-randall | peterfarge: Not really. |
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| 08:18.58 | petn-randall | peterfarge: Does this server ship with firewall rules by default? |
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| 08:20.16 | altker128 | Guys, I know this isn't a Debian specific question but any thoughts on cloning drives? I did a test install on a 500GB drive (used like 2-3GB of space) and I'm trying to clone it into a 64GB SSD ; most clonetools freak out since the disk SIZE is different but there's more than enough space to make this work |
| 08:20.40 | peterfarge | petn-randall I configure the web interface. There were some deactivated firewall rules. |
| 08:20.48 | tdn | agio, yeah, this is what I mean: I want a single specific package to be installed from non-free, but without "polluting" my available package space with other non-free? Is this somethinfg that can be done via pinning? |
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| 08:21.13 | petn-randall | altker128: Easiest is to reinstall to the 64GB SSD. |
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| 08:22.16 | peterfarge | petn-randall If I open a ssh connection from outside, I get immediately the Permission Denied answer. |
| 08:22.24 | petn-randall | altker128: You could of course shrink the filesystem and then the partition, but that's quite error prone. Also many clone tools don't always copy the boot loader over, because this is not part of any partition. |
| 08:22.41 | petn-randall | peterfarge: What is the exact error you get from ssh? |
| 08:22.48 | petn-randall | (copy/paste please) |
| 08:24.44 | altker128 | Jesus, re-install? WTF |
| 08:25.03 | altker128 | Since GPT and UUID shit has become barbaric |
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| 08:25.22 | petn-randall | altker128: What? |
| 08:26.04 | petn-randall | altker128: Reinstalling is like 10 minutes of time? I also don't understand what it has to do with GPT or UUIDs. |
| 08:26.09 | altker128 | petn-randall: I'm saying re-installing is a really sad excuse for not being able to properly clone partitions, something that's been possible for like 25-30 yrs |
| 08:26.23 | petn-randall | altker128: By all means, go ahead. |
| 08:26.25 | themill | cloning is still trivial; resizing is not |
| 08:26.59 | altker128 | themill: The copying should be "smart enough" to effectively rsync the files from old to new since there's a mismatch in partition size (i.e. not do a dd / block-level copy) |
| 08:27.16 | petn-randall | altker128: That wouldn't be a clone then, would it? |
| 08:27.17 | themill | make up your mind whether you want to clone or rsync then |
| 08:28.31 | themill | The process is easy enough. It's up to you whether you want to do that or just make a fresh installation. |
| 08:28.48 | altker128 | Well, the frustrating part is the GPT aspect has be to re-created on the new drive, and the EFI partition should be cloned. The data can be rsynched |
| 08:28.50 | altker128 | rsync'd |
| 08:29.19 | themill | that's no different to any other way of partitioning a disk |
| 08:29.36 | petn-randall | altker128: You can't use the same GPT anyway, since the partitions are different sizes. However clone GPT is a one-liner. |
| 08:29.43 | petn-randall | s/clone/cloning/ |
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| 08:31.03 | peterfarge | petn-randall It was I firewall problem. If I start ssh client from another linux shell and try a connection, the command give no answer. -> No connection. In the web Interface, I forget a checkbox. I thought I had to add a linux user to some kind of ssh group in debian. Thanks for your time :) |
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| 08:32.54 | petn-randall | peterfarge: Ah, good to hear you solved it. |
| 08:33.02 | peterfarge | :) |
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| 09:34.23 | chris787 | hello |
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| 09:34.39 | sveta | hi |
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| 09:36.46 | mdlpe | hi, is it safe to change desktop (mate --> xfce) on Debian ? |
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| 09:37.22 | petn-randall | mdlpe: Sure, you can even install several DEs in parallel. You get to choose which one before login. |
| 09:37.58 | mdlpe | petn-randall: this do not break or damaged installed applications ? |
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| 09:38.57 | petn-randall | mdlpe: No, that would be considered a bug. |
| 09:39.34 | mdlpe | petn-randall: ok, I'll try. If it works, I'll removed mate |
| 09:39.50 | sveta | Yes, mdlpe, that is expected to work well. :) |
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| 09:40.15 | mdlpe | sveta: thanks |
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| 09:47.43 | sveta | mdlpe: xfce recommends xchat for irc chat, it suits the desktop a little better |
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| 09:52.27 | blackflow | xchat is dead. did you mean hexchat? |
| 09:53.29 | sveta | blackflow: what does xfce-goodies say ? maybe it died after i looked |
| 09:53.53 | blackflow | I wouldn't know, but xchat as software is dead, development stopped some 5 years ago |
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| 09:54.12 | blackflow | hexchat continued as its derivative |
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| 09:55.47 | sveta | blackflow, i think there is no irc client listed at goodies.xfce.org, maybe someone wants to add |
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| 09:58.10 | hans_ | can anyone ping ftp.no.debian.org now? (i can't) |
| 10:00.00 | blackflow | hans_: which server exactly? that's DNS/CNAME redirector. I can't ping ftp.acc.umu.se that I was redirected to tho' |
| 10:00.14 | hans_ | that's the 1 i'm redirected to as well |
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| 10:00.39 | hans_ | (ftp.acc.umu.se) |
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| 10:02.36 | petn-randall | hans_: It's not very helpful to crosspost over several channels. |
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| 10:04.01 | hans_ | petn-randall, at first i thought it was a problem with debian-testing, saying "debian 10's apt-get update; has recently started waiting for like, what feels like 5-10 minutes, trying to connect to the ipv6 address (...)", but then i realized it wasn't a debian-testing issue, it was a mirror issue, sorry |
| 10:06.05 | hans_ | anywya, someone at #debian-testing says an admin is working on fixing it |
| 10:06.13 | hans_ | s/anywya/anyway |
| 10:06.37 | babilen | Where did you find that channel? |
| 10:06.45 | hans_ | babilen, irc.oftc.net |
| 10:07.00 | babilen | Ah, you're referring to #debian-next, not #debian-testing |
| 10:07.14 | hans_ | fawk, yeah, sorry |
| 10:07.49 | babilen | fuck? |
| 10:08.03 | babilen | But it seems to be fixed now, enjoy |
| 10:08.37 | hans_ | mm, nvm |
| 10:09.16 | petn-randall | Someone said Guy Fawkes? |
| 10:09.49 | hans_ | that guy protecting gunpowder like 100 years ago? |
| 10:10.40 | hans_ | (well, like 450 years) |
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| 10:11.36 | petn-randall | Well, he didn't really plan on protecting the gunpowder ... |
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| 10:12.41 | yokowka | heavenno, everysoul!!!!)) |
| 10:13.04 | yokowka | *heavennO |
| 10:13.13 | altker128 | Well, finally succeeding in cloning |
| 10:13.25 | altker128 | What a pain in the ass |
| 10:13.46 | altker128 | I think LILO and MBRs were easier to deal with |
| 10:14.51 | petn-randall | altker128: No one's stopping you from still using them. |
| 10:15.09 | hans_ | your first dd? |
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| 10:15.22 | altker128 | petn-randall: Yeah, all the default scripts, etc are now setup assuming grub2, etc |
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| 10:16.27 | petn-randall | altker128: What are you talking about? lilo is still packaged in Debian and usable. |
| 10:16.47 | yokowka | heavenO, everysoul II |
| 10:17.43 | altker128 | petn-randall: I haven't tried to use LILO with the current Debian net-installer . I should probably give it a shot. EFI and UUID didn't really provide me any real benefits |
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| 10:17.59 | rant | how can I make my system not wait on interfaces? could someone with stretech installed normally show me their /lib/systemd/system/networking.service when I installed from a normal installer it didnt do this, the live installer seems to have configured it dierently |
| 10:18.03 | petn-randall | shrugs. |
| 10:18.24 | petn-randall | altker128: You're listing EFI and UUID together as if they have any relation to each other. |
| 10:18.47 | rant | this is adding a minute or more to my boot time.. its really annoying |
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| 10:19.51 | petn-randall | rant: networking.service will wait on any configured devices in /etc/network/interfaces. If you take them out and use network-manager, nothing will wait on them. |
| 10:20.12 | petn-randall | rant: Or just make sure it doesn't use DHCP, or whatever is causing the long waits. |
| 10:20.27 | rant | its not waiting on that.. nothing in there but lo and it ignores lo |
| 10:20.49 | petn-randall | rant: Anything in /etc/network/interfaces.d/? |
| 10:21.30 | rant | yeah I was just checking that.. there is a setup file in there I am about to delete |
| 10:22.19 | rant | man I sure do love split coniguration </sarcasm> |
| 10:23.06 | babilen | Yeah, it's great if you want to ship configuration files from different sources |
| 10:23.27 | rant | its great if you wanna check all over the place for settings too |
| 10:23.47 | rant | I'd rather not though :P |
| 10:23.55 | petn-randall | rant: You can also just not use it, that works, too. ;) |
| 10:23.57 | babilen | wildcards ftw! |
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| 10:24.30 | babilen | petn-randall: That would be too easy |
| 10:24.46 | rant | will never install from a live again |
| 10:25.53 | rant | it had installed probably 2GB or more of language stuff.. special dictionary frontends, input utils, manpages, translations for apps, you name it |
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| 10:26.08 | rant | I spent more time undoing crap than installing |
| 10:26.18 | yokowka | rant, can You make unmistake? such system mesage: /dev/sda2: clean, 204260/30295728 files [10.805148] Error: [\_S8_.PCIO.GFXO.DDO2.BCL] Namespace lookup AE_NOT_FOUND (20160831/psargs-359) How to unmistake it?? |
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| 10:27.13 | rant | yokowka: I see your english has gotten worse :P and those two messages are unrelated, one is a normal message and not an error |
| 10:28.16 | rant | yokowka: you been at the ÐÑамбамбÑлÑ? |
| 10:28.20 | yokowka | well by the system mesage what to do - to correct the system, brother? |
| 10:28.49 | yokowka | rant, i've listen that group on cd |
| 10:28.58 | rant | heh |
| 10:29.06 | petn-randall | yokowka: New week, new attempt: This isn't a problem. Just ignore it. |
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| 10:30.11 | yokowka | petn-randall, it takes time to show this mesage while booting us on, so want mo faster boot! |
| 10:30.21 | yokowka | *is on |
| 10:30.30 | yokowka | *more |
| 10:30.44 | petn-randall | yokowka: It does not. |
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| 10:31.22 | rant | yokowka: you should do systemd-analyze blame > blame.log and goto http://paste.debian.net and upload the blame.log |
| 10:31.49 | yokowka | rant what is the coman to console? |
| 10:32.00 | yokowka | in " " please! |
| 10:32.10 | yokowka | *comand |
| 10:32.18 | rant | yokowka: "systemd-analyze blame > blame.log" |
| 10:32.29 | yokowka | Ok rant - doing |
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| 10:33.48 | yokowka | rant - already do, where is the log to find for paste? |
| 10:34.24 | rant | yokowka: it saved in the current working directory which would have been most likely the users homedir /home/user or /root depending on who ran it |
| 10:35.28 | petn-randall | yokowka: `ls blame.log` |
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| 10:36.00 | rant | thats not real useful :P |
| 10:36.19 | yokowka | rant, petn-randall http://paste.debian.net/1030635 |
| 10:36.25 | rant | about as useful as him correcting "is on" and "more" when it was more gramatically correct to omit them |
| 10:37.33 | rant | looks to me like your boot is abou t 30 seconds and nothing is holding it up |
| 10:37.43 | petn-randall | yokowka: What is the output of `systemd-analyze critical-chain`? |
| 10:38.24 | yokowka | petn-randall, first see it from your mesage, because a newer in debian |
| 10:39.23 | yokowka | petn-randall, type it in console? |
| 10:39.46 | petn-randall | You can also speak it out loud if you have Amazon Alexa. |
| 10:39.54 | rant | heh |
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| 10:40.06 | rant | I think it'd be Amazon Alexi in Belarus |
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| 10:40.43 | rant | erm Alexei |
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| 10:41.39 | yokowka | what is amazon alexei uses for? loud speaking |
| 10:41.44 | yokowka | ? |
| 10:41.59 | rant | yokowka: yes its a small device you can speak commands to |
| 10:42.25 | yokowka | usefull? |
| 10:42.57 | rant | its like Siri for the iPhone, Cortana on a Windows Phone, etc.. |
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| 10:43.41 | rant | idk what the hell google calls theirs.. it seems to be nameless |
| 10:44.11 | rant | or they just think they're so cool its just called google.. cause you say "Ok google," |
| 10:44.18 | yokowka | well I think i know it: like a vertical tube with microphones and dynamic, wi-fi - tooo. |
| 10:44.25 | rant | yes thats it |
| 10:46.02 | yokowka | how amazon alexa will help's my to correct debian booting? may be petn-randall i do not understand that was huÑmor.... |
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| 10:46.41 | rant | yokowka: yeah it was a poor attempt at humor.. I thought my bit about Amazon Alexei was funnier |
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| 10:48.03 | babilen | Best to just stick to support here, I guess |
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| 10:48.21 | rant | I wonder if those things just understand any language or if they have to be reconfigured |
| 10:48.37 | babilen | â #debian-offtopic |
| 10:48.40 | yokowka | rant - Alexei = Lyohae, we says in Rus': everyone got such friend Lyohae, which is dumb malyohae(litlle bit) so you joke has three sentensses. |
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| 10:49.05 | rant | heh |
| 10:49.40 | rant | the pun was not intended I didnt know this |
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| 10:50.11 | rant | learned all I know about Belarus from an Episode of Covert Affairs |
| 10:50.14 | yokowka | rant, how to make boot with no error named upperly? |
| 10:51.01 | yokowka | rant what do you know from that epissode? |
| 10:51.09 | rant | yokowka: close your eyes, or turn of your monitor |
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| 10:52.00 | rant | yokowka: those messages are not a problem.. everyone has something like that.. the point of the systemd-analyze commands was to see if something actually was slowing your boot which it doesnt appear that is so |
| 10:52.47 | babilen | yokowka: You might want to consider upgrading the firmware on your box |
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| 10:56.59 | yokowka | babilen, yep thats true! how to make it? |
| 10:58.37 | babilen | yokowka: That depends on your hardware, it isn't really a Debian problem. I use fwupd, and typically run "fwupdmgr refresh ; fwupdmgr update", but I have no idea if that would work on your hardware. |
| 10:59.02 | babilen | You might want to contact your hardware vendor for information on how to upgrade your firmware/bios/... |
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| 10:59.44 | babilen | fwupdmgr is worth a look though |
| 11:00.01 | yokowka | babilen, dell 3537 inspiron i've got. bios up to date is requied, how I think. |
| 11:00.27 | babilen | You could also start fiddling with acpi options, but it looks as if the ACPI implementation of your hardware is a bit wonky, so I'd start with upgrading that to the latest version first |
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| 11:00.49 | babilen | Once you've done that you could also try a newer kernel from backports (see "/msg dpkg bdo kernel" for succint information on that) |
| 11:01.09 | yokowka | babilen, what is the comand to console for that? |
| 11:01.15 | babilen | yokowka: Dell box should work fine with fwupd, just install it and run the commands I mentioned as root |
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| 11:02.09 | yokowka | babilen, how to install fwupd? |
| 11:02.13 | speechless | logout |
| 11:02.23 | babilen | Just like you install any other package on Debian |
| 11:02.39 | petn-randall | babilen: Note that we've been trying to explain to yokowka that it's a purely cosmetic message. There are no side effects on their machine beside that log output. |
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| 11:03.09 | babilen | It's obviously important enough for a half hour discussion in a technical support channel. |
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| 11:03.31 | babilen | So, lets move on and do something .. upgrading the firmware is advisable in every case |
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| 11:03.42 | petn-randall | (for the last week or so) |
| 11:03.43 | babilen | So .. lunchtime now |
| 11:03.47 | babilen | last week? |
| 11:03.50 | babilen | *sob* |
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| 11:08.31 | yokowka | babilen, root@yokowka:/home/yokowka# fwupdmgr update |
| 11:08.31 | yokowka | No devices can be updated: Nothing to do |
| 11:09.02 | babilen | And you ran refresh before that? |
| 11:09.11 | yokowka | yep |
| 11:09.45 | yokowka | root@yokowka:/home/yokowka# fwupdmgr refresh |
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| 11:10.59 | babilen | Congratulations, your firmware is up-to-date |
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| 11:11.59 | yokowka | babilen, i'd love to say thanks to my parents and movie academy! |
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| 11:14.07 | babilen | Live your dream! |
| 11:15.09 | yokowka | babilen, now in booting will no such scary mesage which I mentioned earliar? |
| 11:15.28 | babilen | As you didn't change anything, the message will, most likely, still appear |
| 11:15.34 | babilen | It is, however, not a problem |
| 11:16.08 | yokowka | but how scary mesage this to hide? |
| 11:16.11 | speechless | I'm having problems running apt-get update from within a docker container on an old-ish AWS VM. https://pastebin.mozilla.org/9088366 . I've tried running apt-get update from within a docker container on a fresh VM with the exact same configuration and it works perfectly fine. I've tried changing public IP addresses and it did not progress anything. Does anyone have a clue on what could be the cause, or any suggestions on what to debug next? |
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| 11:18.06 | petn-randall | yokowka: You could install a boot splash to hide it, if you haven't got that already. |
| 11:18.37 | yokowka | petn-randall, allready do, but mesages - appiar.... |
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| 11:21.28 | bites | speechless: do you have a proxy configured somewhere in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d or /etc/apt/apt.conf in case you created that file. |
| 11:23.02 | petn-randall | yokowka: As we've been saying for the last week or so: This is not fixable. Because there is nothing to fix. |
| 11:23.38 | petn-randall | For the record: You don't need to ask us again next week because the answer will be the same. |
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| 11:23.56 | yokowka | petn-randall, so let it be? |
| 11:24.05 | petn-randall | yes! |
| 11:24.42 | yokowka | petn-randall, i might You! |
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| 11:31.23 | speechless | bites: it's pure vanilla |
| 11:34.39 | speechless | i've compared /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/* between the 2 machines and there is no difference |
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| 11:42.52 | strive | somiaj: "strive: note, you could isntall from the dvd1 image you have, and just copy over the firmware after the install is complete" <- Great idea! Thanks! |
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| 11:44.48 | agio | hi, is there a command like lspci or lsusb - but for hard disks connected? |
| 11:45.44 | strive | lsblk |
| 11:46.48 | strive | agio: HDDs are considered block devices, so we use 'lsblk' to display information about them :) |
| 11:47.04 | agio | can lsblk tell whether the device is connect via IDE or sata or whatever? |
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| 11:48.38 | Kelsar | yes, it can, with some parameter |
| 11:49.38 | strive | Here's a cool one: 'lshw -class disk' |
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| 11:50.41 | strive | Any other ways? |
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| 11:52.14 | agio | lsblk works well like this: |
| 11:52.25 | agio | lsblk -o model,size,name,mountpoint,fstype,type,label,tran |
| 11:52.31 | strive | My guess is that if it were IDE, then it would display /dev/hda, for example. |
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| 11:54.13 | strive | Ooo: hdparm -I /dev/sd? | grep 'sd.\|ATA' |
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| 11:54.58 | Thedarkb-M90 | My system shut down overnight and I'm wondering what logs I should look at in an attempt to figure out why? |
| 11:55.47 | strive | Thedarkb-M90: Probably /var/log/syslog |
| 11:55.54 | Thedarkb-M90 | ah |
| 11:56.08 | Thedarkb-M90 | Is that the same as /var/log/dmesg on another system? |
| 11:56.22 | rant | no |
| 11:56.28 | strive | agio: Good luck! Off to work. |
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| 11:56.47 | agio | strive: thanks - dont work too hard |
| 11:56.57 | strive | agio: Don't worry, I won't. :P |
| 11:57.01 | agio | haha |
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| 11:57.40 | rant | Thedarkb-M90: its the same as /var/log/syslog which contains bits of dmesg and daemon.log among other things |
| 11:58.01 | Thedarkb-M90 | the messages end at 00:10 this morning. |
| 11:58.20 | rant | Thedarkb-M90: check for syslog.1 or such |
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| 11:58.32 | Thedarkb-M90 | That's what I'm looking at. |
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| 11:59.05 | rant | Thedarkb-M90: normally you could use journalctl but persistent logging is disabled by default and so there are no journals saved across reboots |
| 11:59.08 | ezname | Hello! is there a (simple) software that will pipe sound output to (mic/)sound input |
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| 11:59.52 | rant | ezname: jackd or pulseaudio could do such things but chances are you dont actually want that |
| 12:00.08 | Thedarkb-M90 | I seem to recall having audio devices |
| 12:00.20 | Thedarkb-M90 | I mean, in /dev/ |
| 12:00.21 | rant | ezname: to record something you just select the record channel in the mixer |
| 12:00.31 | Thedarkb-M90 | Can't remember if that was even a Linux system though. |
| 12:00.46 | ezname | oh sorry guys, i forgot to mention that i need it for discord a video/call app |
| 12:00.47 | agio | what would having a persistent journalctl give you that /var/log/syslog wouldn't? |
| 12:01.07 | rant | Thedarkb-M90: the linux kernel's modules attach all hardware to a device node in /dev |
| 12:01.27 | ezname | rant^ |
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| 12:01.41 | Thedarkb-M90 | I wonder can you cat things to them. |
| 12:01.59 | rant | journalctl is much more flexible it can search more easily and display only what you want to see.. its logs are binary and indexed |
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| 12:03.01 | Thedarkb-M90 | Huh, this thing has 3GB RAM |
| 12:03.07 | Thedarkb-M90 | I always thought it had 2 |
| 12:03.07 | rant | ezname: discord? |
| 12:03.24 | agio | so journatlctl wont necessarily give you new info - just better at managing/printing/paging the logs etc? |
| 12:03.48 | rant | yes and you wouldnt need to search different plaintext logs |
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| 12:04.43 | agio | cool, thanks rant |
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| 12:07.28 | ezname | rant: discord is like skype just better |
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| 12:08.16 | rant | ezname: linking your output to your input would only result in echoing back what the other person said |
| 12:08.24 | ezname | so i need to pipe the audio i am hearing on the machine since i need to show a person some music i made without him stealing it. i need to pipe output sound to input sound for discord to read it as a mic |
| 12:08.47 | ezname | there is this thing called "Stereo mix" for windows |
| 12:08.51 | ezname | look it up :) |
| 12:09.00 | rant | there is this thing called alsamixer on linux |
| 12:09.47 | Thedarkb-M90 | I do use Discord but it's disappointingly closed. |
| 12:09.50 | rant | which has playback and capture devices and can usually set the pcm output as a capture device |
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| 12:10.18 | Thedarkb-M90 | Using a different client is considered breaking the terms of service. |
| 12:10.25 | rant | and as I said before both jackd and pulseaudio can also do such things |
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| 12:11.39 | gerforce | hi, i have recently got an old server(manufactured about 8 years ago). I try to install debian on it, but the installer couldn't recognize the hard driver which is a raid with three sata disk. The Controller is "LSI MegaRAID SAS 8208ELP" and "LSI MegaRAID SAS 8204ELP" according to the message from the BIOS. So what should i do to make debian installer see the raid. |
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| 12:14.16 | gerforce | i think i should load the raid controller driver before installing. But it seems no official driver for linux. Is there an alternative driver? |
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| 12:18.46 | petn-randall | gerforce: If you go into the setup of the raid controller, is the RAID even configured? |
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| 12:19.10 | rant | gerforce: http://paste.debian.net/1030644/ is the modinfo megaraid_sas output on Stretch amd64 the alias: lines show vend/prod id codes of supported hardware |
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| 12:19.50 | rant | the wiki page for megaraid_sas is outdated but doesnt list an 8204ELP |
| 12:20.35 | rant | and those sorts of names are useless for determining support, only the vend/prod id codes matter, display names could be the same on diferent actual hw |
| 12:21.44 | gerforce | petn-randall: i got the server today. And it had windows 2003 installed. In BIOS i can use Ctl+k to configure the Controller, i can see three disk online and be a virtual disk(raid 5). I have no experience about raid before. I think it's been configured, am i right? |
| 12:22.16 | rant | gerforce: use lspci -nn or in windows you can usually get vend/prod ids in the device manager under properties |
| 12:22.54 | rant | it'll be 8 hex digits 1234:abcd on linux, probably 0x1234,0xabcd on windows |
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| 12:24.17 | M6HZ | Hello, is it the right channel to talk about the dash shell ? |
| 12:24.59 | rant | M6HZ: no, but if you need support it might be |
| 12:25.31 | rant | we're like radio shack once was.. "you've got questions, we got answers" its a support channel not a discussion channel |
| 12:25.38 | petn-randall | gerforce: Yes, that means it's configured. |
| 12:25.41 | ezname | rant ^ |
| 12:25.46 | ezname | <ezname> there is this thing called "Stereo mix" for windows |
| 12:25.51 | ezname | <ezname> look it up :) |
| 12:25.58 | ezname | and you will get a good taste of what i mean |
| 12:26.04 | rant | doesnt care |
| 12:26.22 | rant | I use debian, and so I use alsa, jack, or pulse |
| 12:26.38 | rant | which I recommended to you twice now |
| 12:27.26 | rant | jack has some rather pointy clicky kinds of utils to plug one thing into another, alsa has a mixer where you can select a capture device, and pulse has source/sinks |
| 12:27.57 | rant | alsa is built in, and pulse is usually standard on desktops, jackd is not |
| 12:28.21 | rant | open your package manager (i.e. synaptic, search, read) |
| 12:28.22 | jelly | ezname: so you want a virtual sound input that your app would use. Probably best ask in a pulseaudio or alsa channel what's the easiest way to accomplish that |
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| 12:28.42 | M6HZ | rant, ok, so this is the official support channel for dash ? |
| 12:28.55 | themill | M6HZ: no, this is the support channel for Debian users |
| 12:29.06 | rant | M6HZ: this is the official once removed channel for Debian stable |
| 12:29.45 | rant | M6HZ: if you have a support question about dash on debian stable this may be a place you could get help if you quit beating around the issue and state it |
| 12:30.10 | ezname | jelly thank you i will do that |
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| 12:32.14 | gerforce | rant: the alias line of the paste seems not match the pattern of 8 hex digits. |
| 12:33.03 | rant | gerforce: yeah I dont know why modinfo shows it like that but you only need 8 digits out of that pci:v00001028d00000015sv*sd*bc*sc*i* is 028d:0015 |
| 12:33.25 | M6HZ | In the man pages of dash a builtin command: "fc" is documented, but it apparently doesn't work, is it a bug ? |
| 12:33.35 | rant | if someone knows about those pci strings, I'd be interested in knowing about it :P |
| 12:35.13 | themill | sounds like #252498 |
| 12:35.14 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/252498 in dash (open): «dash: doesn't recognize the built in fc command»; severity: normal; opened: 2004-06-03; last modified: 2008-09-03. |
| 12:35.23 | gerforce | rant: so when i get the vend/prod and it matches one of the alias. Then how can i load it before installing system? |
| 12:37.02 | M6HZ | themill, Thanks! |
| 12:37.17 | rant | yes the maintainer didnt feel inclusion of fc was a priority |
| 12:37.33 | rant | dash is typically used in minimalistic scenarios on Debian |
| 12:37.38 | gerforce | rant: also if the vend/prod isn't supported by linux, If it's possible to disable the raid controller and treat one of the three hard driver as normal hard driver. |
| 12:37.41 | themill | no-one is interested in doing the work to make dash usable as an interactive shell |
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| 12:40.38 | rant | gerforce: hwraid is a lesser used and complex thing.. so figuring out first if the kernel has a module that will claim the hw is the first step then we can go from there and see if that is in the initrd of the installer or such |
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| 12:41.12 | rant | unfortunately there is no real easy way to know if its supported or not.. best we have is the wiki and the page is way outdated |
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| 12:43.32 | rant | gerforce: more than likely you will not be able to use the standard installer even if this is supported as its a proprietary hw with proprietary tools |
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| 12:44.01 | gerforce | quote:"if that is in the initrd of the installer". what does that mean? |
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| 12:45.30 | gerforce | rant: yes. i can find all kinds of windows system driver support of this Controller |
| 12:46.31 | rant | gerforce: were it my problem, I'd either install to something else and setup the raid for storage after install or try installing from an already working installation after getting the raid up and running on there using a chroot install kinda method |
| 12:46.57 | rant | gerforce: or I'd sell it to someone and make it their problem and go get something else :P |
| 12:47.20 | rant | ,i megacli |
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| 12:47.20 | judd | No package named 'megacli' was found in stretch/amd64. |
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| 12:49.07 | rant | the tools are all 3rd party not in debian.. but if the kernel module supports it, then you have hw support at least, just no utils to control it.. which if its already setup via the bios on the card then thats not real important |
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| 12:52.59 | gerforce | rant: so when you do raid, are you using a integrated Controller or a pci Controller like me? |
| 12:54.01 | gerforce | rant: it's not my property. I will sell it if it's mine |
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| 12:57.03 | rant | gerforce: I dont really do raid but when I've done it, it was an integrated.. these days if I could afford a raid I'd get something external and use it just for storage probably.. that way its less headache cause I'm just accessing it over LAN, USB or something like that and the device is doing all the magic |
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| 12:58.35 | rant | gerforce: bottom line is getting any linux on this device is not only a very advanced use case scenario, but will require propriatary software that may be hard to find, and will not be able to use a standard install method |
| 12:59.00 | FinalX | after nuking an external repo (dotdeb), is there an easy way of reinstalling a list of packages and forcing a specific apt source to make them come from? (like jessie default in this case, instead of dotdeb .. dotdeb has a slightly higher minor version) |
| 12:59.03 | rant | gerforce: as for scope of this channel the bottom line is, its not supported |
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| 12:59.26 | FinalX | else I'll just remove them all and install them again, maybe better :) |
| 13:00.04 | gerforce | rant: that's correct. |
| 13:00.07 | rant | FinalX: apt doesn't do downgrades so if its possible, yes a removal would be needed |
| 13:00.50 | rant | FinalX: however you may have gotten to a point where deps were installed that upgraded core components that would require removal of nearly all your system to do so |
| 13:00.51 | gerforce | rant: Maybe i just need a new hardware with all kinds of linux support. |
| 13:01.11 | rant | gerforce: yes that is preferable, though we can't always get what we want |
| 13:01.38 | gerforce | rant: money is evil. |
| 13:02.03 | rant | gerforce: can you just hook the drives up to a supported controller and do a software raid at least? |
| 13:02.24 | FinalX | rant: nah, it's not that bad. went from wheezy+dotdeb php 5.6 => jessie, wanting to go back to jessie's php 5.6. and you can forcibly reinstall a specific version with apt, but.. this might be safer |
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| 13:04.15 | rant | FinalX: sounds to me like you got some serious issues.. heh. we'd be happy to help you with whatever your devel/prod needs for php are if you go ahead and install a clean Stretch system |
| 13:04.22 | gerforce | rant: but how can i power the drive? there is no additional power connecter in the server, even i can connect the drive to the motherboard |
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| 13:04.39 | rant | ah.. that sucks |
| 13:05.14 | FinalX | rant: uh, I was asking a specific question. I have no serious issues... or need for that kind of help at all, ty. |
| 13:06.11 | FinalX | plus stretch would be completely useless here :p |
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| 13:06.24 | gerforce | rant: After i have done some searching, i think about the method you mentioned. So i opened the server, and nope. No power source. |
| 13:07.23 | gerforce | rant: maybe i can use a external power. But seems a ugly solution. |
| 13:07.33 | gerforce | rant: anyway i'll try |
| 13:07.38 | rant | well we still support jessie too.. but we'd suggest other methods than dotdeb which isnt supported here |
| 13:07.46 | rant | !dotdeb alternatives |
| 13:07.46 | dpkg | Software from <dotdeb> historically had a number of packaging or functional issues. If you require newer versions than what <stable> offers, a lot of the packages now have updates in backports.debian.org, ask me about <bdo> or for php possibly <deb.sury.org>; to remove Dotdeb packages: "aptitude purge '~Vdotdeb'". |
| 13:08.51 | rant | gerforce: the drives are powered by the raid card? |
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| 13:09.59 | FinalX | rant: ergo, you didn't read and just want to tell people to upgrade? :) I'm moving away from dotdeb to stock jessie... :) that does get LTS updates, still, at least until the company that's been promising a new version of their custom application actually keeps word :) |
| 13:10.14 | gerforce | rant: yes. you just insert the hard drive to the card, and it's done. |
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| 13:10.36 | FinalX | I think that with 600+ servers already being stretch, ~100 on jessie and about 3 left on wheezy, it's a good enough count :p |
| 13:10.55 | rant | gerforce: hmm the megaraid sas cards I know of are just normal pci(e) type cards with sas connectors like any other disk controller card ever made |
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| 13:11.18 | rant | gerforce: idk how you could have a card that holds and powers multiple drives |
| 13:11.51 | rant | you say hard drive (singular) and a single drive doesnt make a raid |
| 13:13.04 | gerforce | rant: actually three drivers. English is not my native language. So i didn't type that precise |
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| 13:14.22 | rant | gerforce: https://d1sfu4378rr01a.cloudfront.net/images/54375_l.jpg is the hw you were talking about.. |
| 13:14.47 | rant | thats a Megaraid SAS 8208ELP and it doesnt have drives in it |
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| 13:15.39 | gerforce | rant: seems the link been block by my ISP |
| 13:15.51 | gerforce | rant: i couldn't see. |
| 13:15.53 | rant | ah |
| 13:16.24 | gerforce | rant: try my vpn |
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| 13:17.02 | rant | gerforce: https://www.google.com/search?q=lsi+megaraid+sas+8208elp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiWxbr88u7bAhWjzlkKHWgaBNwQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1272&bih=580 shows a bunch of em |
| 13:17.16 | gerforce | rant: no google in China |
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| 13:17.30 | rant | ah.. china.. |
| 13:17.33 | rant | that makes sense |
| 13:17.35 | areckx | ok this is embarassing; after backup of my server and reinstalling after some install ctrl-c mishap, I did new install------but I did it in recovery mode without creating a user or a root password.... |
| 13:17.56 | areckx | tried root with no pass |
| 13:18.29 | petn-randall | areckx: How did you reinstall in recovery mode? |
| 13:18.45 | rant | gerforce: when my father has gone to china for business he said he was able to access the internet without issues and view things the chinese could not which still confuses me |
| 13:18.48 | areckx | via the usb net install recovery mode |
| 13:19.12 | petn-randall | areckx: I'm confused, the recovery mode has no installer function. |
| 13:19.14 | areckx | I went to mount disks so I could backup important data then went to partition |
| 13:19.30 | areckx | the graphical one for stretch does |
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| 13:19.38 | areckx | it's basically install |
| 13:19.48 | petn-randall | areckx: Do you mean the regular installer? |
| 13:20.00 | areckx | yes but it was "recovery mode" in the menu |
| 13:20.13 | areckx | I don't have a user or root |
| 13:20.14 | gerforce | rant: that's true. |
| 13:20.27 | areckx | how am I supposed to add one? |
| 13:21.10 | petn-randall | areckx: Rescue mode? Or expert mode? |
| 13:21.17 | rant | gerforce: I dont see how they can block citizens and not vistors (from a technical standpoint) |
| 13:21.25 | petn-randall | I mean "expert install". |
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| 13:21.31 | areckx | looks like it yeah I'll try that from grub |
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| 13:22.30 | petn-randall | areckx: There are ways to reset the root password, but I'm not even sure you have a complete installation. |
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| 13:23.13 | areckx | I did the partition and then installed the base system |
| 13:23.21 | gerforce | rant: Maybe they are using a seperate network service which could bypass GFW like vpn |
| 13:23.26 | areckx | but I never got asked to make a user I made a hostname |
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| 13:24.02 | areckx | this is really boggling my mind LOL how did I do an install without making a user? |
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| 13:25.48 | rant | gerforce: *shrugs* what stops anyone from doing that? is it illegal or something? |
| 13:25.57 | petn-randall | areckx: "expert install" is the same as regular install, but just adds more options. And rescue mode only allows you to chroot into an existing installation. So I still don't know what you actually did. |
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| 13:28.01 | areckx | why are you insisting it doesn't? I literally just did it |
| 13:28.28 | jken | Hello, I am setting up a new debian stretch system and am having trouble getting HDMI audio working. HDMI is the only possible audio output on this system but `cat /proc/asound/cards` tells me "No Soundcards". I am not sure where to start, can anyone point me in the right direction? |
| 13:28.32 | petn-randall | areckx: Because I just tried the network installer in a VM and it does just what I said. |
| 13:28.37 | areckx | I was in graphical recovery mode which did the initial hardware detect, setting time, etc, setting hostname |
| 13:28.42 | petn-randall | areckx: Which installation image did you download? |
| 13:28.50 | areckx | note, not recovery mode, GRAPHICAL recovery mode |
| 13:29.10 | areckx | I went into a shell and mounted my volumes to backup to an external hdd |
| 13:29.18 | areckx | after I did that I went to select installation step |
| 13:29.35 | areckx | and formatted partition, installed lxde and base system, then when it was done, I rebooted |
| 13:29.55 | areckx | then when I got to the dm I realized I have no user or password |
| 13:30.27 | areckx | I have no idea how |
| 13:30.42 | areckx | I input a hostname and it did the detect time, etc, |
| 13:30.48 | petn-randall | areckx: Then you may, or may not, have a complete installation. I'd just do it again cleanly. If you want to reset the password, it's: |
| 13:30.52 | petn-randall | !frp |
| 13:30.53 | dpkg | For GRUB: 1) press 'e' to edit the kernel setting in the grub command line (add 'init=/bin/sh' to the end of it) 2) 'fsck' your root file system, 3) 'mount -o remount,rw /', 4) 'passwd root' 5) 'mount -o remount,ro /' 6) 'reboot -d -f' (exec /sbin/init should work); For LILO: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at the LILO boot prompt (hold Shift while booting), steps 2-6 are the same; For yaboot: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at yaboot prompt. |
| 13:31.09 | areckx | why wouldn't it be complete? |
| 13:31.20 | babilen | Because you - obviously - skipped some steps |
| 13:31.28 | areckx | I only skipped the user create |
| 13:31.35 | petn-randall | areckx: Because if you skipped the user creation step, you might have skipped others, too. |
| 13:31.38 | areckx | and I don't see why I couldn't do that post install |
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| 13:32.00 | babilen | Well, why don't you? |
| 13:32.32 | areckx | I seriously want to know because I don't want a borked system |
| 13:32.35 | babilen | I don't understand what your problem is .. the answer to your initial question seems to be "because you skipped it" |
| 13:32.42 | areckx | and I also don't want to redownload all the packages if I dont have to |
| 13:32.59 | areckx | right but it doesn't seem like it could have been skipped |
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| 13:33.10 | areckx | because it did everything like the hardware detect, setting hostname |
| 13:33.22 | areckx | how did it skip user creation? |
| 13:33.30 | babilen | So you skipped it even though it couldn't be skipped? |
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| 13:33.39 | areckx | thus why I'm so perplexed! |
| 13:33.58 | babilen | The installer performs a number of actions, none of which are mandatory |
| 13:34.19 | babilen | (some of which are, however, necessary for a 'working' system) |
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| 13:37.22 | gerforce | rant: we don't talk politics. |
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| 13:37.42 | areckx | thanks for the help, I'm going through install again hopefully I can skip the installation of packages if it already exists? |
| 13:37.52 | petn-randall | areckx: Likely not. |
| 13:37.56 | babilen | That's not how the installer works |
| 13:38.09 | petn-randall | areckx: Use the graphical install, or the textmode installer, not rescue mode again. |
| 13:38.18 | areckx | yes doing install mode |
| 13:38.19 | babilen | Please make sure you don't skip steps you'll deem necessary later on |
| 13:39.15 | areckx | I think because in recovery mode it doesn't have the root password and user input menu |
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| 13:39.23 | areckx | I never got those windows |
| 13:39.32 | areckx | I did everything that came up before the shell |
| 13:39.49 | areckx | it asked for hostname, domain name |
| 13:40.09 | areckx | then went to prompt for mounting disks and opening a shell |
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| 13:41.10 | babilen | So, you did not perform a complete install. The best way to perform an installation is to use the "install" or "expert" option of the installer |
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| 13:42.00 | areckx | I am doing the install again |
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| 13:42.52 | areckx | but this might happen to someone else later, maybe the graphical install should have the options added |
| 13:43.03 | areckx | errr the recovery mode |
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| 13:43.25 | areckx | it had everything else but the root password and user creation steps |
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| 13:43.43 | areckx | not sure if that was intentional or someone missed it |
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| 13:44.14 | areckx | but I assumed I could do the install from there because it had the other install steps included like making a hostname |
| 13:46.54 | areckx | Thank you for the help. I'm trying to get used to the Debian way I am used to using Arch lol |
| 13:47.06 | areckx | going from bleeding edge to stable is a shift in thinking XD |
| 13:47.47 | babilen | areckx: The recovery mode is strictly *not* for installation |
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| 13:48.11 | babilen | (the installer can always perform all the steps you select) |
| 13:48.27 | areckx | (I mixed some packages from testing and synaptic wanted me to remove a bunch of necessary files when I marked eclipse for reinstallation, I thought it was doing an autoremove so I did it but then did ctrl-C when I noticed it was uninstalling the kernel) |
| 13:48.39 | babilen | ... |
| 13:48.42 | areckx | babilen: right but it let me do it anyway |
| 13:48.50 | babilen | Yes, why wouldn't it? |
| 13:48.57 | babilen | *you* are in control |
| 13:49.20 | areckx | right but I mean I forget where in the process it made a password and user |
| 13:49.25 | areckx | and it never came up |
| 13:50.08 | areckx | I just find it strange that the installer would do everything else but not include that |
| 13:50.13 | areckx | err the recovery mode |
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| 13:51.39 | areckx | anyway now I know not to mix packages lol I want a stable system |
| 13:52.09 | areckx | I didn't even need the ones I added, was just chromium and the pepperflash-freshplayer-etcetc-etc |
| 13:53.38 | areckx | I've been very confused about flash in stretch; I setup a box for my dad and he plays a game called battle pirates |
| 13:54.20 | areckx | I followed the guide to getting pepperflash, but when he goes into the game it says "flash plugin is outdated" in the top right, even though the version matches adobe's |
| 13:54.32 | areckx | I did the whole thing where I downloaded it and copied the .so file |
| 13:54.38 | petn-randall | areckx: You read what babilen said, right? The part about rescue mode not being an installer? |
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| 13:55.22 | areckx | petn-randall: yes but I'm just saying if it's a rescue mode, then why does it set the time and ask for hostname but not create a user or pass? seems like it should skip that entirely and go straight to recovery shell |
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| 13:56.01 | areckx | and then there shouldn't be a way to install the base system if it's not an installation |
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| 13:56.36 | petn-randall | areckx: because time and hostname are relevant for a rescue system, creating users is not. |
| 13:57.06 | areckx | anyway I'm not sure if it's just kixeye and their game or not but when he runs it chromium says the flash plugin is outdated and then his system slows to a crawl after some time |
| 13:57.18 | areckx | you're missing my point |
| 13:57.18 | bites | areckx: the easiest way to get flash is installing google chrome. |
| 13:57.33 | petn-randall | shrugs. |
| 13:57.36 | areckx | my point is that if it's not intended to install, why does it have the opption to install the base system? |
| 13:57.47 | areckx | bites: I did that on his box too and same problem |
| 13:58.05 | petn-randall | areckx: The ways of supported installation are clearly documented in the release notes, if you want to do it differently, by all means do, but it's completely unsupported. |
| 13:58.18 | areckx | petn-randall: I don't want to do it differently though |
| 13:58.23 | areckx | you're missing my point |
| 13:58.24 | bites | so the game desperately want adobe flash? that sucks. |
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| 13:58.46 | areckx | yeah it's a crappy game and he actually spends his money on it for coin.... but that's not the issue |
| 13:58.51 | petn-randall | areckx: I get your point, but I can't even reproduce what you're claiming. |
| 13:59.03 | areckx | then it must be ghosts |
| 13:59.09 | areckx | timbg |
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| 14:00.39 | areckx | it has the latest version of flash installed though |
| 14:01.02 | Akuw | i am trying to test dump using ---> sudo dump -Ozf bott-20220.dump /boot |
| 14:01.08 | Akuw | but it show me help |
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| 14:01.35 | Akuw | i checked some samples in google |
| 14:02.27 | areckx | petn-randall: you're totally right I just messed up and have learned not to assume things about things LOL |
| 14:03.01 | areckx | my assumptions are usually wrong so I should trust debian more than my ass |
| 14:03.24 | areckx | <PROTECTED> |
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| 14:06.02 | Akuw | ? |
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| 14:10.36 | petn-randall | Akuw: That's most likely because you provided the wrong parameters. Read the output carefully. |
| 14:11.02 | Akuw | only show usage: |
| 14:11.22 | Akuw | all samples i saw ---> sudo dump -Ozf bott-20220.dump /boot |
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| 14:16.13 | areckx | is it 0 or O ? |
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| 14:19.06 | JohnA | OFF TOPIC: Recently a child died after accidentally being left in its parents car during very hot weather. I believe similar incidents have occurred in very cold weather. I am thinking of drawing up a "standard" to be suggested to government so that in the event that a child is left in a car if the parents leave an alarm is sounded. Serveral things: 1 this is obviously NOT the right place to discuss this idea. Is IRC a suitable place and if so how |
| 14:19.06 | JohnA | does one set up a "chat room". 2, would github be a "good"lace to creat and such a document ... |
| 14:19.33 | areckx | not in #debian |
| 14:19.37 | babilen | â #debian-offtopic, ##chat, .... |
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| 14:24.48 | JohnA | babilen: Thanks will move this there! |
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| 14:25.59 | speechless | bites: I've progressed, found the iptables on the machine does the following: REDIRECT tcp -- 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 tcp dpt:80 redir ports 8080 |
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| 14:26.18 | babilen | dpkg: tell JohnA about alis |
| 14:26.38 | bites | speechless: ah, so the containers were on different hosts? |
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| 14:26.40 | speechless | which messages with the http requests that apt does |
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| 14:27.19 | speechless | yea, containers were on different hosts, the one that kept failing is 2 years old, so there is a lot of strange configuration... |
| 14:27.38 | bites | but it only blocked some of the http requests apt made... |
| 14:27.52 | speechless | it blocked the http requests __everything__ made |
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| 14:28.24 | speechless | that came out of a docker container |
| 14:28.55 | speechless | but http requets from the host machine works fine |
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| 15:04.34 | ychaouche | o/ |
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| 15:12.31 | speechless | bites: i've completely solved the issue, everything builds as expected, thanks for the hint. i ended up deleting the redirect rules because it really wasn't needed |
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| 15:24.08 | mikeymop | !apologies |
| 15:24.08 | dpkg | it has been said that apologies is beer |
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| 15:34.23 | gerforce | !apologies |
| 15:34.23 | dpkg | apologies is, like, beer |
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| 16:01.23 | Akuw | letter O |
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| 16:10.36 | petn-randall | PC LOAD LETTER |
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| 16:14.09 | oo_miguel | what might be the reason that i get this trying to apt-get install: E: Package 'php7.0-gd' has no installation candidate |
| 16:15.05 | rant | probably because the package php7.0-gd has no installation candidate |
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| 16:15.49 | nkuttler | ,v php7.0-gd |
| 16:15.50 | judd | Package: php7.0-gd on amd64 -- stretch: 7.0.27-0+deb9u1; stretch-security: 7.0.27-0+deb9u1; sid: 7.0.29-1+b2 |
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| 16:15.56 | petn-randall | !bat |
| 16:15.56 | dpkg | In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 16:15.59 | rant | oo_miguel: apt policy php7.0-gd |
| 16:16.16 | petn-randall | oo_miguel: Can you provide *all* the info from the factoid above in a single paste? ^^^ |
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| 16:18.36 | oo_miguel | http://paste.debian.net/1030688/ |
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| 16:19.18 | oo_miguel | ah, and sorry for NOT cleaning up the "Reading package list.. %" |
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| 16:20.12 | rant | oo_miguel: the package is pinned |
| 16:20.25 | oo_miguel | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:20.29 | oo_miguel | does this line tell us that? |
| 16:20.35 | rant | yes it does |
| 16:21.14 | rant | well line 228 rather |
| 16:21.46 | rant | the pin is or the current version but its a bit odd you have all that pinning going on |
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| 16:21.56 | dgp | Is there a way to disable the interface renaming crap without rebooting? I did the fix for my kernel command line but I can't reboot right now :/ |
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| 16:22.56 | rant | oo_miguel: line 143 indicates it as well |
| 16:23.00 | oo_miguel | rant: i use the official docker wordpress image, so they have pinned it |
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| 16:23.22 | rant | oo_miguel: its odd because its not installed |
| 16:24.04 | oo_miguel | ah and I ran : docker-php-ext-configure gd AND docker-php-ext-install gd |
| 16:24.20 | oo_miguel | will have to look up what docker-php-ext-* does |
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| 16:26.12 | rant | oo_miguel: look, keep in mind I know almost nothing about docker and php, but I'm pretty sure this configuration is telling apt not to install these things. I'm not terribly familiar with a priority of -1 either |
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| 16:26.44 | oo_miguel | rant: allright, thanks for pointing me in the right direction (pinning) |
| 16:26.59 | rant | oo_miguel: yes after looking at docs -1 means to never install the package |
| 16:27.30 | rant | oo_miguel: apparently this docker thing which as I understand is for portable software, is distributing its own php packages and doesnt want debian installing any |
| 16:29.07 | oo_miguel | yeah they want me to use their script to install the packages instaed of apt it seems |
| 16:29.44 | petn-randall | dgp: You mean you don't want persistent interface naming? |
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| 16:30.22 | somiaj | petn-randall: /spersistent/predictable/? |
| 16:30.44 | petn-randall | dgp: You can use `ifrename` to rename you interfaces in the mean time. |
| 16:30.46 | rant | oo_miguel: yeah well beyond what we just covered, doing so means they have to support it, else you gotta figure it out yourself.. so consider than and which support community you prefer to rely on :P |
| 16:30.48 | petn-randall | somiaj: err, yes. |
| 16:30.50 | somiaj | dgp: if you use tye systemd.link definitions, you can just unload and reload the moudle and it will rename the interface by your systemd.link setting. |
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| 16:31.15 | somiaj | ahh didn't know about ifrename, though with systemd.link, you don't need any command line parameter (though you will have to rebuild your initramfs) |
| 16:31.42 | dgp | I'm writing something that is adding interfaces and the renaming stuff is causing the interface to be renamed right after I get a packet from netlink saying it was added |
| 16:31.57 | oo_miguel | rant: haha yeah. I am afraid I have to rely on both |
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| 16:33.38 | rant | oo_miguel: I'd think if one were to make the effort to make things like docker/flatpack/etc.. they'd take care to isolate it so local packages from the OS didnt interfere |
| 16:33.59 | rant | and using pinning to disable them isn't a good way to go about it |
| 16:36.15 | rant | oo_miguel: to quote our wiki "Debian does not encourage pinning without thorough consideration. ... Seriously, don't do this. Doing this will break Debian and leave you with a system that doesn't work and can't be fixed." |
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| 16:39.22 | rant | granted that was more written with pinning outside the target and before docker existed :P |
| 16:39.39 | jhutchin1_wk | Pinning was a valid concept many years ago. It really shouldn't be used in current releases. |
| 16:40.11 | rant | apparently docker or the maintainers of the wordpress image think its a good idea |
| 16:40.51 | rant | personally I'd seek a more debian way of doing things but thats just me |
| 16:41.10 | oo_miguel | rant: I guess the maintainers of the php docker image which the wordpress image is based of decided to use pinning |
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| 16:42.25 | rant | oo_miguel: my problem with that logic aside from the fact we dont encourage its use.. is that you are relying on a maintainers decisions who neither has the knowledge or responsibilty for your system nor it would seem the knowledge of debian in general |
| 16:42.38 | rant | its a crude hack by someone with no dog in the race |
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| 16:43.09 | rant | and distances you from those of us who are here to help you when the fecal matter hits the air circulation devices propeller |
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| 16:43.33 | oo_miguel | rant: haha yeah I completely understand what you mean. and this does not make me happy either |
| 16:44.14 | oo_miguel | is at least the "official" debian docker image supported by debian, or is this also some kind of hack already? |
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| 16:45.50 | oo_miguel | debian.org states: Debian images provided in docker.io's official repositories (their "official images") are listed on their official debian images repository. These images are generated by the stackbrew application |
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| 16:46.32 | oo_miguel | so this are docker.io's "official debian images" not debians, right? :P |
| 16:47.31 | rant | yes, because they're duplicating essentially our whole system.. a whole seperate package manager, repository, utility scripts, maintainers, etc.. and this use case demonstrates they do so in a way that undermines our practices |
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| 16:48.19 | dgp | At least the kernel can now compact all the tens of copies of the same stuff you have in memory for no good reason |
| 16:48.20 | oo_miguel | rant: hmmm never looked on that from this perspective |
| 16:49.09 | rant | and having used and supported debian a long time I know sometimes things can be a challenge.. but I have to ask myself not only what I mentioned earlier about support, but also about security.. do I really trust their maintainer to keep things clean and secure and up to date over debian's? |
| 16:49.36 | rant | when clearly they dont have all that is debian in mind when they're doing this |
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| 16:50.02 | rant | they're just concerned with making a neat little package that can be hacked into anything |
| 16:50.09 | dgp | rant: they don't care about stuff like that. If they cared they would package stuff properly |
| 16:50.12 | rant | consequences be damned |
| 16:50.33 | rant | dgp: thats a concisely put rewording of my point :P |
| 16:52.08 | rant | What made me a Debian user aside from what sent me looking for a better platform.. was reading Why Debian? and the Social Contract on Debian's website.. then I tried it, came here.. and I hold this community and those ideals above all else both in my use and support |
| 16:52.18 | rant | and to see people just crapping all over that... |
| 16:52.25 | oo_miguel | hmmm, my main motivation in using docker is having this "containers" running seemingly independently of each other (over one single kernel) and the fact I can easily back them up and move them around. |
| 16:52.40 | rant | I can't hardly trust them over DDs and DMs and the support community |
| 16:52.48 | Brigo | oo_miguel, what about lxc? |
| 16:52.49 | dgp | mm I just use it by habit now. I've used it for more than half of my life |
| 16:53.10 | dgp | oo_miguel: You can do that without having a complete copy of the whole OS |
| 16:53.18 | oo_miguel | Brigo: is lxc the technology underneath docker? |
| 16:53.37 | somiaj | lxc is another container method |
| 16:53.46 | rant | well thats why I got Crossover 17 last week for much the same reason. but the difference there is, the stuff I'm doing in crossover can't be done otherwise on debian |
| 16:54.04 | Brigo | oo_miguel, the kernel is the technology underneath docker and lxc :) |
| 16:54.05 | rant | but it sure can bottle stuff up, archive and distribute it nicely :P |
| 16:54.17 | somiaj | rant: wasn't the office you needed to support old? I am able to use office 2007 just fine with the wine in debian. |
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| 16:54.35 | rant | somiaj: that was my father.. I'm using it for games |
| 16:55.03 | somiaj | ahh, I've basically stoped playing games that don't have a linux client, the selection is smaller, but there are a decent number you can get for linux |
| 16:55.12 | oo_miguel | Brigo: ah ok. thougt docker runs on TOP of something (beside the kernel of course) |
| 16:55.13 | rant | somiaj: I had him on that old Crossover 7 from the Lame Duck thing back in '08 |
| 16:55.21 | dgp | somiaj: from steam? |
| 16:55.30 | somiaj | dgp: mostly, though not all |
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| 16:55.35 | oo_miguel | not sure why I never tried lxc.. I use kvm as well, which serves another purpose (at least for me) |
| 16:55.40 | jak2000 | hi all |
| 16:55.55 | jak2000 | how to uninstall complet Java? |
| 16:56.01 | dgp | somiaj: I keep getting caught out by games on steam that have linux versions that the developer never tested :( |
| 16:56.11 | dgp | is glad valve added returns.. |
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| 16:56.33 | dgp | jak2000: apt-cache java and pick the jre or jdk you want |
| 16:56.47 | rant | dgp: read that again |
| 16:56.55 | somiaj | dgp: Often one just is missing the right libaries. I have had to work to get them working some times, but so far they have all worked. |
| 16:57.00 | dgp | rant: hah |
| 16:57.13 | jak2000 | E: Invalid operation java |
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| 16:57.18 | oo_miguel | aaah and docker was using LXC as its backing technology until 2014 |
| 16:57.29 | AdamDay85 | dgp: I think they test in ubuntu |
| 16:57.31 | oo_miguel | then they switched to some own library |
| 16:57.41 | rant | jak2000: yes aside from the typppo, dgp misread your question |
| 16:57.47 | jim | jak2000, well you could get it from oracle or you could install openjdk |
| 16:58.09 | rant | NOTE: user jak2000 wants to completely UNINSTALL java |
| 16:58.33 | jim | oh :) I misread it too |
| 16:58.47 | jak2000 | yes i have OPENJDK 8 and want install openJDk9 |
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| 16:58.57 | dgp | jak2000: you can have them both installed |
| 16:59.00 | rant | well it wasnt grammar/spell checked but it was still apparent the intent |
| 16:59.09 | somiaj | jak2000: openjdk9 is dead, I would stick to openjdk8 if possible (my undersanding) |
| 16:59.12 | dgp | jak2000: and the jdk 9 compiler is broken |
| 16:59.31 | somiaj | ,v openjdk-9-jre |
| 16:59.32 | judd | Package: openjdk-9-jre on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 9~b181-4~bpo9+1 |
| 17:00.04 | somiaj | 0 is avaiablel in stretch-backports, but my understanding is that version is dead, 8 is still supported and so is the new version 10 |
| 17:00.13 | somiaj | 0=9 |
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| 17:00.27 | dgp | oo_miguel: The sort of projects that use docker are the sort of projects that have NIH problems so it doesn't surprise me they would do that |
| 17:00.32 | rant | there seems to be a typo epidemic in here :P |
| 17:00.41 | jak2000 | somiaj: exist openjdk 10? |
| 17:00.51 | somiaj | jak2000: yes, but it isn't avaiable for stretch yet |
| 17:00.57 | somiaj | ,v openjdk-10-jre |
| 17:00.58 | judd | Package: openjdk-10-jre on amd64 -- buster: 10.0.1+10-4; sid: 10.0.1+10-4 |
| 17:01.13 | rant | could do a ssb perhaps |
| 17:01.16 | somiaj | and upstream has stopped supporting 9 |
| 17:01.28 | oo_miguel | dgp: NIH? |
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| 17:01.44 | somiaj | rant: or just use java-package if one really wanted to. |
| 17:01.44 | dgp | jak2000: do you have something that needs something newer than 8? |
| 17:01.47 | jim | ,checkbackport openjdk-10-jre |
| 17:01.51 | judd | Backporting package openjdk-10-jre in sidâstretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: g++-7, jtreg (>= 4.2-b10-1~), openjdk-10-jdk-headless <cross>. |
| 17:01.54 | dgp | oo_miguel: not invented here |
| 17:01.56 | greycat | oo_miguel: "Not Invented Here", meaning they won't use it because it's not theirs. |
| 17:02.02 | oo_miguel | aaah |
| 17:02.28 | dgp | "This wasn't coded on a macbook by a guy with a photo of his guns on his github profile.. pffft can't use it" |
| 17:02.35 | jim | so right now 10 isn't available for stretch and as you can see, for good reason |
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| 17:03.20 | jak2000 | dgp yes actually i have this java version: 1.8.0_171 and fail to send email, a friend say me: need version 9 or 8u151 |
| 17:03.37 | jak2000 | then i need uninstall 1.8.0_171 and install this: 8u151 |
| 17:03.37 | oo_miguel | allright, so after all this "constructive criticism" ;) I will definitely try LXC for my next project and decide how it compares to docker for my scenarios |
| 17:03.44 | oo_miguel | thank you very much |
| 17:04.18 | oo_miguel | ... unless there is maybe another container-technology I should also have a look at? |
| 17:04.18 | somiaj | jak2000: I don't see why downgrading to 8u151 would help there, the main difference between 151 and 171 is securty fixes. |
| 17:04.32 | jak2000 | see: |
| 17:04.49 | dgp | and 9 breaks more things than it fixes |
| 17:05.17 | jak2000 | <Maldivia> jak2000: 8u161 changed an internal class that java mail relies on, causing it to break i know this issusue |
| 17:06.01 | jak2000 | in my laptop i installed this version: 8u151 and my program worked... (downgrade)... |
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| 17:07.37 | somiaj | why not fix the program so you can use a secure version of java? |
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| 17:08.03 | jak2000 | somiaj not know how, in #java channel say me change java version.... |
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| 17:08.27 | somiaj | well you can look for older versions on snapshot.debian.org, and have them and all the security problems with them. |
| 17:08.38 | greycat | If a non-Debian channel is advising a specific version of Java, then install that version in /opt or /usr/local and make symlinks as needed by hand. |
| 17:09.05 | greycat | (or snapshot.d.o if it's an *older* version that they want, which is uncommon) |
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| 17:10.31 | jak2000 | ok |
| 17:10.57 | dgp | So if I'm looking at the right thing this is something that has already been fixed in the library that was affected |
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| 17:12.41 | jak2000 | much thanks |
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| 17:16.06 | diverdude | Hi, For some reason I have no sound on my debian machine. Can anyone help me understand why? |
| 17:16.31 | greycat | Make sure channels are unmuted and have non-zero volume levels. |
| 17:16.32 | somiaj | diverdude: let me guess you are running testing? |
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| 17:16.39 | somiaj | or sid |
| 17:16.51 | greycat | or he hasn't run alsamixer or pavucontrol yet |
| 17:17.02 | diverdude | somiaj: what do you mean? I am running wheezy |
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| 17:17.17 | greycat | hah |
| 17:17.29 | greycat | FYI wheezy is beyond end of life and no longer receives support. |
| 17:17.33 | somiaj | ahh okay, then listen to greycat. There is just a bug affecting testing/unstable users where they are loosing sound, but this does not affect wheezy. |
| 17:17.42 | diverdude | greycat: i know but i have to run wheezy |
| 17:17.50 | somiaj | (there is ELTS on wheezy, but desktop support has been dropped for a while) |
| 17:18.02 | greycat | OK. If you're using ALSA without Pulse, just run alsamixer and unmute and raise the volume on the master channel. |
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| 17:18.50 | diverdude | greycat: master channel is really set to 100 |
| 17:19.03 | greycat | If it also says MM then it's muted. |
| 17:19.15 | diverdude | aha then its muted |
| 17:19.30 | diverdude | How do i unmute it |
| 17:19.35 | greycat | press 'M' IIRC |
| 17:19.42 | greycat | or 'm' or something |
| 17:20.50 | buu | So dudes |
| 17:21.22 | buu | I booted a debian box with a graphics card plugged in but no monitor. Now I want monitor output. I plug the monitor in. It tells me no signal. X isn't even installed. |
| 17:21.32 | buu | How do I tell the framebuffer to wake up and give me a console on my monitor |
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| 17:21.36 | diverdude | greycat: aha nice...sound plays through speakers now |
| 17:22.18 | diverdude | greycat: i have also a headset attached through USB (speakers is via minijack). Can i select audiooutput somewhere so that i can select headset for output? |
| 17:22.43 | somiaj | if using alsa, you'll have to look into .asoundrc configuration |
| 17:23.06 | diverdude | ok there is no UI where i can do it? |
| 17:23.10 | diverdude | in some system settings UI |
| 17:23.10 | somiaj | well that can change the default device, you can also tell your app to use a different device |
| 17:23.21 | somiaj | this is why most people use pulse |
| 17:23.53 | diverdude | ok....why am I not using pulse then? was that not part of wheezy? |
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| 18:14.04 | Ignacy | When I run 'M-x term' I can't switch between split windows, because terminal eats all input. WHAT DO? |
| 18:14.25 | Ignacy | umm sorry, wrong window |
| 18:14.34 | yeik | Is debian sid having issues with the udev and systemd, i saw bugs regarding udev, but now my system had things like libvirtd masked and can't bring up virt-manager, several other things seem off, |
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| 18:16.28 | zifxify | yeik, #debian-next |
| 18:16.50 | yeik | yes, just saw and joined |
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| 18:16.58 | yeik | whats the default firewall package for debian? |
| 18:17.14 | somiaj | yeik: you should probably stick to a single channel to ask questions, and not cross post |
| 18:17.25 | somiaj | debian doesn't have a default firewall, but you can build one with iptables of nftables |
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| 18:17.32 | somiaj | and various other tools aviable |
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| 18:17.40 | yeik | thanks |
| 18:17.45 | jak2000 | i executed: on bin directory: ./java -version and tell me the version of java, i think need 1) move the jdk directory to /opt and add path right? how to |
| 18:18.03 | jak2000 | friends, unpacked my file: jdk-8u151-linux-x64.tar.gz |
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| 18:19.00 | somiaj | we don't really support such things, but just run /opt/foo/java to call the java binary for your application |
| 18:19.04 | greycat | jak2000: create a symlink from /usr/local/bin/java to your /opt/whatever/java OR from /usr/bin/java to your whatever |
| 18:20.09 | somiaj | I think if using /usr/bin/java, best just use update-alternatives and add that java to the alternative system. |
| 18:20.24 | somiaj | though I would just have the app that needs that java call it, and try to leave the system java alone, so other apps can use the more secure java |
| 18:20.48 | greycat | I might be tempted to create /usr/local/bin/java and REMOVE /usr/bin/java completely |
| 18:20.59 | greycat | but then I'm not sure something wouldn't just recreate /usr/bin/java so ... |
| 18:21.02 | jak2000 | somiaj i need java command are available in all linux box (need add the path) because Glassfish and or tomcat need excecute the command |
| 18:22.02 | somiaj | you could set up a PATH just for the enviorments that run glassfish or tomcat, but again I would have tried to fix the issue with the newer java as opposed to run services on a java with known security holes |
| 18:22.37 | somiaj | but there are lots of options, if you want to make it the default java, you can manually add it as an alterative using update-alternatives and then not have to add any other linkes |
| 18:23.00 | somiaj | man update-alternatives for instructions on 1) adding a new alternative for java, and b) makeing it default |
| 18:23.18 | jak2000 | somiaj: greycat https://paste.debian.net/1030695/ |
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| 18:26.59 | buu | What's the difference between sysctl foo=bar and sysctl -w foo=bar |
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| 18:27.18 | greycat | whatever "man sysctl" says it is? |
| 18:28.23 | buu | greycat: it doesn't |
| 18:28.25 | buu | that's why I asked |
| 18:28.30 | buu | obviously |
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| 18:29.12 | greycat | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:29.12 | greycat | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:29.20 | greycat | You're welcome. |
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| 18:39.48 | buu | greycat: Hi, that doesn't answer the question, thankes for wasting both our time though |
| 18:40.15 | greycat | It answered it for me. It says "the first one is wrong and the second one is correct." |
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| 19:16.57 | zokum | I'm having problems with a tutorial on https://wiki.debian.org/OpenVPN - Debian Server with Android / iOS devices. The dir with the easy-rsa/2.0 isn't there on my install (debian 9) |
| 19:17.39 | zokum | there's nothing in my example section that looks like it's about the same either |
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| 19:29.18 | erabiltzaile__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:29.25 | erabiltzaile__ | I mean, is my PC, my machine, my HD, my GNU LINUX with my user, I did all from here, no way to restore it? Please, and thanks. |
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| 19:30.37 | zokum | that's the entire point, that the data is encrypted and you must have the password |
| 19:30.49 | zokum | if there was a workaround, it would be pointless to have a password |
| 19:31.11 | erabiltzaile__ | zokum, but I am the owner of the OS... that cannot help? |
| 19:31.22 | greycat | Prove it by supplying the password. |
| 19:31.26 | erabiltzaile__ | I mean, that I am superuser, I did that pass with my user... |
| 19:31.35 | erabiltzaile__ | greycat, xD |
| 19:31.48 | annadane | ******* |
| 19:31.50 | erabiltzaile__ | why ubuntu forgot the pass? |
| 19:32.08 | greycat | Do we look like #ubuntu? |
| 19:32.13 | erabiltzaile__ | greycat, you should |
| 19:32.30 | jim | annadane, what a coincidence! that's my password too! |
| 19:32.32 | erabiltzaile__ | ubuntu is like debian, but with a good pair of jeans |
| 19:32.38 | zokum | erabiltzaile__: no, it doesn't help at all |
| 19:32.52 | erabiltzaile__ | zokum, thanks |
| 19:33.11 | erabiltzaile__ | zokum, but why gnome shell forgot the password? |
| 19:33.19 | zokum | the only thing you can do to encrypt is to have the password |
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| 19:33.42 | erabiltzaile__ | zokum, I disconnected the usb with a movement of my arm, then it reconnected again but asking for password |
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| 19:34.14 | zokum | you shouldn't keep the password in your shell history anyway |
| 19:34.41 | jim | erabiltzaile__, yeah, sorry that happened... makes me wish you had backups |
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| 19:35.50 | erabiltzaile__ | jim, I have the 75% in DVDs... Also some important work in Google DRIVE (that is not my decision, but a team)... |
| 19:36.40 | zokum | As for my problem, i think the files have been moved to: /usr/share/easy-rsa |
| 19:36.43 | jim | erabiltzaile__, oh good, maybe you can get some of it back |
| 19:36.50 | erabiltzaile__ | jim, I would like a tool for HD clonning, I mean, same HD inside the laptop and the external one, is it posible? |
| 19:37.42 | jim | you mean two copies both encrypted? |
| 19:37.55 | erabiltzaile__ | I mean same cloned HD |
| 19:38.30 | erabiltzaile__ | and if I make some change in the external one (the one I move), then when I plug it to the laptop, that tool can modify the changes automatically, or just a click. |
| 19:38.36 | erabiltzaile__ | Is there something like that? |
| 19:38.36 | erabiltzaile__ | xD |
| 19:39.32 | zokum | erabiltzaile__: there's a shell command called "dd" try "man dd" https://www.howtoforge.com/tutorial/linux-dd-command-clone-disk-practical-example/ etc |
| 19:39.35 | jim | there are probably tools like that |
| 19:39.38 | erabiltzaile__ | ... |
| 19:39.46 | erabiltzaile__ | zokum, I know dd, thanks |
| 19:39.46 | erabiltzaile__ | xD |
| 19:40.02 | erabiltzaile__ | I would like something automatic, and with GUI |
| 19:40.03 | erabiltzaile__ | ;D |
| 19:40.08 | zokum | like rsync? |
| 19:40.08 | erabiltzaile__ | anyway thanks |
| 19:40.09 | greycat | He said he's going to keep making changes, so a clone with dd is a really BAD idea. |
| 19:40.23 | greycat | You'd be better off copying files at the file system level using rsync or similar. |
| 19:40.26 | zokum | well, it all depends on how identical you want it to be |
| 19:40.44 | greycat | And how many days you want it to take to resync every time you edit one file. |
| 19:41.04 | annadane | is that really an issue with dd? i didn't know that |
| 19:41.10 | zokum | clone == exact copy to me, but if you just want to have a backup, rsync should do fine |
| 19:41.13 | erabiltzaile__ | thanks you all |
| 19:41.16 | greycat | Imagine how long it takes to copy 1 TB to an external USB drive. |
| 19:41.28 | erabiltzaile__ | greycat, ... yep |
| 19:41.32 | greycat | Now imagine you edit foobar.c and foobar.h and Makefile, and you want to resync your backup. |
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| 19:42.09 | annadane | !tell erabiltzaile__ about what to backup |
| 19:42.14 | annadane | !tell erabiltzaile__ about aptitude clone |
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| 19:42.28 | p0lyph3m | what about software raid mirroring , could that work |
| 19:42.33 | zokum | erabiltzaile__: are you sure you're not really looking for a version control system like git? |
| 19:42.37 | greycat | p0lyph3m: yes |
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| 19:44.00 | erabiltzaile__ | zokum, Im not a developer, here in my gnome shell you could see Autodesk 3D Maya, Blender, Lightworks, Fusion, Unity... xD |
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| 19:44.40 | erabiltzaile__ | I will "restore" manually my HD with my DVDs and GDrive... DEP 25% files I'll never see again :( |
| 19:44.47 | erabiltzaile__ | thanks you all! |
| 19:45.10 | erabiltzaile__ | at least, cryptsetup works perfectly XD |
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| 19:46.08 | annadane | oh, dd operates as root |
| 19:46.14 | annadane | yeah i kind of forgot |
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| 19:46.58 | jim | annadane, as you probably know, the issues dd suffers from are for one thing, it will copy the -filesystem-, meaning the size of the device has to be exactly the same, also, dd will also copy free space; whereas a file copying method doesn't suffer from either of those |
| 19:47.19 | annadane | right |
| 19:47.32 | annadane | yeah i honestly didn't think of any of that |
| 19:48.41 | jim | those issues are shared by other imagers as well |
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| 19:50.37 | annadane | notices mike still hasn't posted a question to either of the links i gave |
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| 19:53.46 | jim | annadane, actually, if the destination is larger and what you;'re copying is an extN partition, you could do the copy then run resize2fs on the copy |
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| 19:54.35 | annadane | still tedious though |
| 19:54.43 | jim | and similar for image copies of other types of things, for example I think you can copy lvm PVs that way too |
| 19:54.45 | annadane | compared to rsync |
| 19:55.36 | jim | yep, on top of which rsync is a file-by-file copier, so it doesn't suffer from any of the above |
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| 19:58.03 | jim | and on top of all of that, if you wanted to change filesystem type, you could do so by formatting the destination to be the type you want, and have both mounted before using cp or rsync |
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| 19:59.22 | jim | can't do that with dd |
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| 20:00.48 | jim | btw, we can add tar to the list of file-by-file tools |
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| 20:02.40 | annadane | and also dd is incredibly dangerous if you're not reading |
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| 20:04.48 | kalekata | hello people i wanna ask a hard question: How can i set up a DSL (broadband) connection? |
| 20:06.45 | p0lyph3m | nmtui |
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| 20:07.50 | p0lyph3m | kalekata: nmtui 4 u |
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| 20:08.28 | greycat | The question is too vague. |
| 20:09.06 | greycat | If you've got a consumer-grade router or modem+router with ethernet ports, just run an ethernet cable from the computer to the router, install Debian, and let it configure the network automatically, and it should just work. |
| 20:09.29 | kalekata | thanks! nmtui might solve the problem |
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| 20:30.26 | jhutchin1_wk | dd can also be used for copying data between different filesystems. |
| 20:30.48 | greycat | Not in any realistic sense. |
| 20:30.51 | p0lyph3m | lvmraid to the rescue |
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| 20:38.26 | craftyguy | is there a way to define limits for partitions created using the partman atomic recipe in a preseed? |
| 20:39.05 | craftyguy | e.g. "don't make a swap more than N GB" |
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| 20:44.12 | jhutchin1_wk | dd if=/foo/file of=/target/file |
| 20:45.14 | greycat | That's what I meant by "not realistic". You're just using it as cp in disguise, not copying raw devices (disks or partitions) the way most people use dd. |
| 20:46.52 | babilen | cp can copy those as well |
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| 20:47.13 | babilen | I find dd/dcfldd to be most useful if you want to tinker with things like offset or block size |
| 20:47.28 | babilen | (such as copy 256 kb from the start of ...) |
| 20:47.37 | jkcg | hello Debian community |
| 20:47.48 | craftyguy | dd is super useful for working with firmware |
| 20:48.27 | jkcg | I am here because I would like to know if some of you know what can I do with an old mac cube |
| 20:49.57 | _31N108E | Use as a server? |
| 20:50.22 | jkcg | well |
| 20:50.38 | jkcg | I did some research |
| 20:50.43 | greycat | doorstop? |
| 20:50.59 | jkcg | and I found a current powerpc debian port |
| 20:51.24 | jkcg | I know about debian, but I dont know nothing about ports |
| 20:51.34 | jhutchin1_wk | !ppc |
| 20:51.34 | dpkg | PowerPC is a <RISC> architecture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC). See "Debian for PowerPC" at http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc . Debian CDs are not (and cannot be made) bootable on Old World PowerMacs. Information on proper partitioning is at http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/doc/mac-fdisk-basics.txt . See also <macsound>, <yaboot>, <quik>, <bootx>, <ppc64>. #debianppc on irc.oftc.net and irc.freenode.net. |
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| 20:52.20 | jkcg | well, the debian ppc irc channel are so death that is not even funny |
| 20:52.42 | jkcg | my true question is |
| 20:53.00 | jhutchin1_wk | jkcg: Marginal projects like that are better supported in forums and mailing lists. There just isn't the user density to keep an irc channel alive. |
| 20:53.07 | jelly | "death" seems to happen to old architectures yes |
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| 20:53.29 | jkcg | would a debian port, say the ppc 32 bit big endian port |
| 20:53.37 | jelly | idlig a couple days might yield a result |
| 20:53.52 | jkcg | work with old debian jessie packages? |
| 20:54.53 | jelly | I guess you may have to go significantly older than jessie for old 32bit powerpc |
| 20:55.10 | jelly | wheezy or even squeeze perhaps |
| 20:55.20 | jkcg | but does not jessie support 32 bit ppc? |
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| 20:56.15 | jelly | that's what the docs say. |
| 20:56.23 | jkcg | the cube specs are the following: 2gb of ram and the original 450 mhz processor |
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| 20:56.38 | jkcg | I can upgrade the processor to a 1.2 ghz ppc |
| 20:57.00 | jkcg | but I dont know if it is worth the effort |
| 20:57.14 | jkcg | what would you reccomend? |
| 20:57.23 | jelly | getting a core2duo from the junkyard will provide a faster machine |
| 20:57.49 | jkcg | well, in Venezuela the pentium 3 and 4 are standard these days |
| 20:58.13 | jkcg | so I dont want a ultra fast machine |
| 20:58.19 | jelly | P4 eats a lot of power; an old ppc might win in that sense |
| 20:58.19 | zokum | a p3 is ~20 years old, it can't be the standard |
| 20:58.36 | greycat | You might have fewer problems with the pentium 4 since it's a still-supported architecture. |
| 20:58.38 | jelly | zokum: sure it can, welcome to third world |
| 20:59.00 | jkcg | oh |
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| 20:59.30 | jkcg | here you can see mad things like pentium 2 and pentium 3 being "modern" machines |
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| 20:59.44 | jkcg | with win xp being modern GGG |
| 20:59.50 | zokum | i know it's not exactly a rich nation, but getting other hardware that works with a p3, like hdds, that has to be hard |
| 20:59.57 | greycat | I still see Win XP in use. |
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| 21:00.20 | jkcg | as I tell you |
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| 21:00.41 | jkcg | there are mad things, in other news |
| 21:00.51 | jkcg | I also have a mac g5 quad |
| 21:00.58 | *** join/#debian nylon (~nylon@s13490149139.blix.com) |
| 21:01.03 | jkcg | I dont think is that slow |
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| 21:01.29 | jelly | a g5 with 1-2GB RAM might be usable even with GUI |
| 21:01.51 | jkcg | well, it can take 16 gb of ram |
| 21:01.58 | greycat | It's not the GUI that will slow you down. It's the web browser. |
| 21:02.03 | jelly | if you can get it |
| 21:02.09 | jkcg | well |
| 21:02.21 | jkcg | I did some research in that regard too, you are right |
| 21:02.36 | jkcg | firefox 52 is the latest you can get for old ppc |
| 21:02.43 | jelly | well I just replaced an i5-660 with a fresh new 2013 vintage i3-4130 so I can run any damn browser I want now. |
| 21:02.56 | jkcg | wow |
| 21:03.20 | *** join/#debian briner (~briner@217.162.196.50) |
| 21:03.28 | zokum | I'm on a core 2 duo, that's borderline vintage now |
| 21:03.37 | jkcg | maybe for you hehe |
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| 21:04.00 | jkcg | core 2 duo is fugly expensive |
| 21:04.07 | jkcg | i3 is for ultra rich |
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| 21:04.20 | greycat | jelly's in Europe, not South America, IIRC |
| 21:04.24 | jkcg | and not even menntion new gen intel, they do not exist there |
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| 21:04.37 | jelly | SE Europe but Europe nevertheless |
| 21:04.39 | jkcg | is normal to find old machines there |
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| 21:05.11 | jkcg | for example, you can find brand new core 2 duo machines here |
| 21:05.14 | zokum | i have p4 and upwards machines lying around that i don't use |
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| 21:05.30 | jelly | I remember P3 Xeon servers from when I first started working for this employer, that was 2001-ish |
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| 21:06.25 | jkcg | the macs that I am talking you, for example |
| 21:06.31 | jkcg | are in mint condition |
| 21:06.41 | _31N108E | What's going on?... |
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| 21:07.17 | jkcg | well, in conclussion, I cant do nothing with the powermac cube |
| 21:07.21 | jkcg | right? |
| 21:07.37 | babilen | doorstop |
| 21:07.41 | jkcg | yes |
| 21:07.41 | jelly | you can invest a lot of time to get something like debian 7, maybe 8 running |
| 21:07.45 | zokum | the p3 i use is kinda beefy though, dual cpu 1GHz, so not your average machine |
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| 21:08.20 | jkcg | well, no one knows about the debian 9 powerpc port then? |
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| 21:08.33 | jkcg | may that boot on the machine? |
| 21:08.46 | jelly | only one way to find out |
| 21:08.53 | jelly | !tias |
| 21:08.53 | dpkg | TIAS is "Try It And See". |
| 21:09.33 | zokum | you might have more luck with netbsd or gentoo tbh when it comes to exotic/older architectures |
| 21:10.55 | jkcg | gentoo? isnt that the distro that last ages compiling everything? |
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| 21:11.57 | jkcg | well, thanks for the info people, if anything |
| 21:12.17 | jkcg | the mac cube can be selled via ebay for good price |
| 21:12.36 | jkcg | considering that it was just 10 bucks |
| 21:13.12 | jkcg | with screen and everything, people in Ven doesnt know jack about expensive machines |
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| 21:14.10 | _31N108E | A doorstop designed by Apple in California. |
| 21:14.26 | jkcg | if I can get it to run debian 9 I will let you know |
| 21:14.35 | zokum | jkcg: yes, gentoo compiles everything, so if your architecture is supported, it might work fine for you |
| 21:14.59 | jkcg | maybe the unoficial port can work for it |
| 21:15.08 | petn-randall | jkcg: A Mac Cube user? Finally I meet you! |
| 21:15.24 | jkcg | what tackles down the machine is the 400 mhz |
| 21:15.42 | jkcg | <petn-randall> |
| 21:16.26 | petn-randall | zokum: I don't quite understand how gentoo helps with this. Either the architecture is supported, or it's not. Same goes for Debian. I don't know how recompiling helps there. |
| 21:17.09 | M6HZ | Do you know how to increment a value with the dash shell ? I normally use ((var++)), but there it's apparently not working, which is supprising to me is that the function seems to be documented here: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/V3_chap01.html#tag_17_01_02_01 |
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| 21:17.52 | zokum | petn-randall: gentoo can more easily support odd architectures due to the code being compiled for your current arch, instead of being provided as precompiled packages |
| 21:18.08 | petn-randall | M6HZ: I thought everything with double brackets is a bash built-in, but I must admit I hardly write shells scripts anymore. |
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| 21:19.21 | jakes | running Raspbian (OSMC) & want to send regular audio from video to my TV over HDMI (check) but audio from my BT-connected mobile (a2dp) to my hifi over minijack, so that I don't need to turn on the TV to listen to music |
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| 21:19.59 | petn-randall | zokum: Well, I don't see a difference when the user or the distro maintainer compiles it. The distro maintainer still has to provide the bits to support the architecture, and also the boot bits, which are different for every arch. |
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| 21:21.06 | karlpinc | How do I find the default values for unattended-upgrade. I've tried "apt-config dump" and it only shows me some values, not everything that's listed (say, "Mail") in the conf file, 50unattended-upgrades. |
| 21:21.39 | jkcg | petn-randall: do you use your mac cube currently? |
| 21:21.50 | zokum | i would think a lot of architectures are abandoned due to the work needed to provide packages prebuilt that works out of the box, moving more of the job over to the user makes it easier for the maintainer to support |
| 21:22.04 | petn-randall | jkcg: No, I just always wanted to meet one of the three remaining users. |
| 21:22.27 | zokum | besides, ppc seems to be a supported arch: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:PPC |
| 21:22.31 | petn-randall | zokum: What you just said makes zero sense. |
| 21:22.51 | zokum | petn-randall: what is it you don't understand? |
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| 21:23.37 | petn-randall | zokum: As a Gentoo distro maintainer you provide bits to make it compile on the user's machine. Now just imagine the user being the Debian buildd. The work is exactly the same. |
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| 21:24.16 | jkcg | petn-randall: indeed, the machine is very unusual |
| 21:24.25 | petn-randall | zokum: You don't magically save maintenance work by letting the user running the build. That's just cheap CPU cycles. The hard work is to make the buildchain not to FTBFS. |
| 21:24.41 | zokum | petn-randall: gentoo packages are a bit different, they're mostly the source code + patches and some minor glue |
| 21:25.14 | jkcg | petn-randall and weird to obtain, the one you got its stil functional? |
| 21:25.22 | zokum | so, it's the same basic package for all archs, it's just the compiler, make flags etc that are different |
| 21:25.34 | petn-randall | ... and build scripts that still need to run on that architecture nonetheless. |
| 21:25.48 | zokum | yes, but those are shared |
| 21:26.00 | jkcg | zokum: IIRC you are correct, portage, which is the package manager of gentoo is a bit different |
| 21:26.18 | petn-randall | zokum: They still need to get fixed to build on architecture X. That doesn't just happen automagically. |
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| 21:26.50 | jkcg | you may be able to do what you sya but, the compiling time for, lets say, chrome takes like 2 days to compile |
| 21:27.16 | zokum | petn-randall: yes, but you can opt to do it yourself if you want to very easily, and the mirrors need only supply the source package, not precompiled binaries |
| 21:27.29 | petn-randall | zokum: Convincing gcc to build for arch X isn't the hard part, it's a) making sure the code actually builds on the arch b) making sure the build system runs on the arch c) getting some boot loader to work on the arch to boot the kernel + initramfs. |
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| 21:28.15 | zokum | petn-randall: yes, gentoo takes care of b and c for you, but not always a |
| 21:28.20 | petn-randall | zokum: Again, the foot work is the hard part. gcc can crosscompile to a bazillion archs, that's besides the point. |
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| 21:29.21 | zokum | the point is, gentoo can provide you with an os optimized for pentium 2 if need be, but it takes ages to compile |
| 21:29.26 | petn-randall | zokum: Right! So a Gentoo maintainer actually does b) and c) by hand. And of course a), too. If it doesn't build (irrelevant if it's on the user or buildd machine), it doesn't run for the user. |
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| 21:29.52 | petn-randall | zokum: We're not talking about 2% optimization, we're talking about support. |
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| 21:30.19 | zokum | petn-randall: the maintainers generally only test for the common architectures, it's up to the user to fix things to a much higher degree if things go wrong |
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| 21:31.27 | petn-randall | zokum: Right. So then it's no different than Debian. In Debian you can also just pull the source packages, fix any problems and compile for your arch. You can even (semi-)automate that. |
| 21:31.53 | zokum | yes, you probably can, and gentoo is built around automatically always doing that for you |
| 21:32.07 | zokum | they've focused on the automation of that stuff |
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| 21:32.25 | jakes | running Raspbian (OSMC) & want to send regular audio from video to my TV over HDMI (check) but audio from my BT-connected mobile (a2dp) to my hifi over minijack, so that I don't need to turn on the TV to listen to music |
| 21:32.25 | jakes | hi. running Raspbian (OSMC) & want to send regular audio from video to my TV over HDMI (check) but audio from my BT-connected mobile (a2dp) to my hifi over minijack, so that I don't need to turn on the TV to listen to music |
| 21:32.49 | petn-randall | !raspbian |
| 21:32.49 | dpkg | Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. http://www.raspbian.org/ |
| 21:32.58 | petn-randall | jakes: Try asking in their support channel. ^^^ |
| 21:33.17 | jakes | petn-randall: cheers |
| 21:33.22 | petn-randall | jakes: yw |
| 21:33.39 | jakes | have asked there, but only tumbleweeds |
| 21:33.45 | petn-randall | jakes: There's also #raspberrypi. |
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| 21:34.06 | jakes | query is more low-level than that - OS-level Imho |
| 21:34.21 | jakes | well, #pulseaudio actually, but same probs |
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| 21:34.35 | petn-randall | jakes: The channel is a lot smaller, so you need to be patient. Also it's night for EU/US, so you might have more luck asking in 8h or so. |
| 21:35.00 | jakes | yea - I'm on the arse-end of the world NZT |
| 21:35.06 | petn-randall | jakes: Well, raspbian being the OS, it looks like the right channel for me. |
| 21:35.18 | petn-randall | hehe ;) |
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| 21:35.47 | jakes | IRC is very sleepy when I'm up, so need to kick up a fuss, work a lot harder to find anyone knowledgable awake in any relevant channels |
| 21:36.01 | zokum | it's 23:35 in europe, so it should be like 17:35 us east coast, so should be people awake |
| 21:36.35 | petn-randall | it's busiest during office hours in here, less so on the weekends. |
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| 21:36.46 | jakes | :/ |
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| 21:37.19 | petn-randall | jakes: Raspbian might also have a mailinglist, in that case you don't have to worry about timezones. |
| 21:37.25 | jakes | add to the fact people seem to be deserting IRC in favour of more 'hipster' options |
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| 21:37.40 | jakes | anyhow |
| 21:38.13 | jakes | thought I'd check in over morning-joe. to work noaw, then check in again this evening |
| 21:38.19 | BCMM | was somebody looking for Raspbian help? |
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| 21:38.48 | jakes | BCMM: I am (well, PulseAudio under Raspbian) |
| 21:39.03 | jakes | running Raspbian (OSMC) & want to send regular audio from video to my TV over HDMI (check) but audio from my BT-connected mobile (a2dp) to my hifi over minijack, so that I don't need to turn on the TV to listen to music |
| 21:39.23 | BCMM | jakes: i just joined so i'm guessing from petn-randall's message, but i take it you had no luck on #raspbian? |
| 21:39.43 | jakes | BCMM: yea - everyone's asleep |
| 21:39.48 | noahmg123 | My touchpad stopped working after I installed software updates |
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| 21:39.58 | petn-randall | BCMM: Feel free to help in #raspbian, to keep it topical in here. |
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| 21:40.18 | BCMM | jakes: i was just gonna point out that #raspberrypi has much more raspbian chat than #raspbian does, ever since the Foundation made Raspbian their favourite distro |
| 21:40.32 | BCMM | the raspbian channel is kind of dead at any time |
| 21:40.59 | jakes | thanks for update |
| 21:41.13 | jakes | was afraid people migrated to discourse (I think it is?) |
| 21:41.22 | jakes | *discord |
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| 21:43.08 | BCMM | jakes: i'd like to hope communities centered around open-source are slightly more resistant to moving to proprietary communication platforms |
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| 21:43.33 | jakes | you'd think, but Adafruit seems to to fine |
| 21:43.40 | BCMM | but maybe i'm just old and grumpy and don't get why discord is so cool |
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| 21:44.35 | petn-randall | Pff, discord. Slack is the shit for this month! |
| 21:45.09 | jakes | I think it was a lot to do with shiny interfaces - i.e. ability to communicate more expressive than just type, such as anigif & memes - & that many FLOSS community have some VERY TOXIC attitudes deeply entrenched |
| 21:45.37 | jakes | going AFK. need to earn some cheese |
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| 21:48.51 | annadane | ...need to... what? |
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| 21:49.07 | ryouma | does grub-install or update-grub run os-prober? is it only for the purpose of populating the grub menu? i.e. it won't change anything except a menu file right? |
| 21:49.17 | jkcg | hello debian users |
| 21:49.45 | jkcg | I would like to know, if some of you are in deb testing of ppc64 |
| 21:49.52 | jkcg | or ppc |
| 21:50.25 | ryouma | isn't that unsupported as of post-jessie or something? |
| 21:50.32 | jkcg | well no |
| 21:50.36 | jkcg | you are right |
| 21:50.43 | jkcg | it is not officially supported |
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| 21:51.25 | ryouma | i thought the project was dropped, but if not, that is great |
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| 21:51.42 | jkcg | but a port for big endian ppc and ppc64 was created, there is even debian 9 and 10 isos |
| 21:51.50 | jkcg | well in any case |
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| 21:52.47 | jkcg | how can I use debian 8 packages on debian 10, is it even possible? |
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| 21:53.32 | jkcg | or at the very least, debian 9 packages in testing |
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| 21:55.07 | ryouma | are some macs big and smoe little endian? |
| 21:55.41 | jkcg | well |
| 21:55.56 | jkcg | I will explain the little way |
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| 21:56.54 | jkcg | power macs are divided in two periods, powermac g4 and earilier, and power mac g5, g4 are 32 bit, the standard powerpc target you see |
| 21:57.01 | BCMM | ryouma: all macs since '06 are little-endian |
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| 21:57.37 | jkcg | g5 and onward are 64bit, both g4 aand g5 are big endian |
| 21:58.13 | jkcg | and are power 4 and power 5 architecture based respectively |
| 21:58.34 | jkcg | is from power 8 powerpc processors that are little endian |
| 21:59.17 | ryouma | so a powerbook g4 would be little endian and not supported then |
| 21:59.25 | jkcg | no |
| 21:59.34 | jkcg | powerbook g4 is big endian |
| 22:00.04 | jkcg | and may be supported in ppc 32 bit big endian debian 9, testing and sid port |
| 22:00.17 | BCMM | ryouma: the intel macs are little-endian |
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| 22:00.27 | jkcg | yep |
| 22:00.51 | BCMM | ryouma: the ppc ones were always run in big-endian mode with MacOS, but some of them might support little-endian mode as well |
| 22:01.08 | BCMM | (no idea what software support for that is like, though) |
| 22:01.22 | jkcg | well, iirc |
| 22:01.35 | jkcg | power macs can go little endian |
| 22:01.52 | jkcg | but they lack some of the hardware ound on power8 little endian |
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| 22:02.08 | jkcg | the superscalar unit iirc |
| 22:02.26 | jkcg | making them unable to run ppc64le |
| 22:02.50 | BCMM | what about gpus? am i right in saying that gpu firmware can pretty much tie you to working in big-endian mode at least if you want hardware acceleration working? |
| 22:03.00 | jkcg | well |
| 22:03.09 | jkcg | for what I researched |
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| 22:04.04 | jkcg | only the original gpu can work well with deb 8 and deb 9 and testing |
| 22:04.08 | jkcg | for example |
| 22:04.27 | BCMM | (i don't know much about this, i just know there used to be a cottage industry in re-flashing PC graphics cards to make them work with macs and then selling them at a big markup) |
| 22:04.54 | jkcg | the nvidia geforce 6600 works correctly only if you installed the iso via dvd |
| 22:05.15 | jkcg | and that gpu is the one that came with the powermac g5 |
| 22:05.24 | jkcg | that is correct BCMM |
| 22:05.51 | jkcg | but that kind of business are death since apple killed powerpc long ago |
| 22:06.26 | jkcg | does someone knows where I can contact people who make the debian ports? |
| 22:06.46 | demo | jkcg, there is a mailing list |
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| 22:38.16 | ryouma | where do i go to find out the debconf /priority/ setting for where to install grub to in grub-pc? is it possible to tell debconf to NEVER install grub without asking where i want it to go first? |
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| 22:45.22 | craftyguy | are debian testing net install images archived someplace? |
| 22:45.53 | craftyguy | this only has today and yesterday: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/daily-builds/daily/ |
| 22:46.38 | annadane | craftyguy, do you want to test the installer, or install testing? |
| 22:47.44 | craftyguy | annadane: install testing, but the latest ISOs are broken for us in some way I'm trying to understand. Comparing with an ISO that 'works for us' will help.. |
| 22:48.02 | annadane | craftyguy, i recommend installing a minimal stable and upgrading from there |
| 22:49.01 | craftyguy | well, that's not really an option, unfortunately. I take in an iso and inject some customizations (preseed, finalize, etc). It's for an automated system builder thing |
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| 22:54.15 | annadane | craftyguy, http://snapshot.debian.org/binary/debian-installer-9-netboot-amd64/ maybe |
| 22:54.37 | annadane | hmm that says 2017 though |
| 22:54.44 | annadane | so not what you want |
| 22:54.46 | annadane | sorry |
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| 22:55.06 | craftyguy | ah yea, that's too old :( |
| 22:56.37 | annadane | craftyguy, try perhaps asking #debian-boot (irc.oftc.net) |
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| 22:59.15 | annadane | (this is a lazy recommendation. "i don't know personally, other people probably do, but ask some other place anyway) |
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