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| 00:00.21 | centrx | dsf, See the message above about backports. That is a good way of getting future/updated packages |
| 00:00.32 | dsf | seems so |
| 00:00.58 | dsf | i understood under backports what redhat did but makes some sense or what hehe |
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| 00:01.07 | dsf | never thought debian would have backports |
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| 00:16.43 | zz1 | I get some errors when running apt-get update: |
| 00:16.54 | zz1 | I get some errors when running apt-get update: |
| 00:16.56 | zz1 | Ign http://security.debian.org squeeze/updates/main Translation-en_US |
| 00:16.58 | zz1 | Ign http://security.debian.org squeeze/updates/main Translation-en |
| 00:16.58 | zz1 | Reading package lists... Done |
| 00:16.58 | zz1 | W: Failed to fetch http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US/dists/stable/non-US/Release.gpg Could not resolve 'non-us.debian.org' |
| 00:17.28 | zz1 | I read that the last one should be out of date, so I guess I can just comment it |
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| 00:18.28 | zz1 | but the first two? They even get me a bit confused, since it reads "squeeze" but I am running wheezy. Or that doesn't have to do with the version name? |
| 00:20.11 | zvz | zz1: post output of uname -a |
| 00:20.12 | centrx | zz1, non-us is a very old repository no longer necessary |
| 00:20.31 | iwilcox | Maybe there's some tag in the Release for the security source saying which version it applies to, or maybe Translation didn't exist then, or maybe you have default release set. Since you need to update I wouldn't worry about why. |
| 00:20.57 | zz1 | zvz That's it: Linux debian 3.2.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.2.54-2 x86_64 GNU/Linux |
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| 00:25.05 | abrotman | zz1: where did you get that sources.list? |
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| 00:25.36 | zz1 | abrotman you mean what I posted or my /etc/apt/sources.list? |
| 00:25.37 | abrotman | zz1: it's wrong, very wrong, and about to do very bad tihngs to your system |
| 00:25.54 | abrotman | zz1: where did oyu get the contents of your sources.list? |
| 00:26.03 | zz1 | It was there |
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| 00:26.14 | zz1 | I didn't touch anything, I promise |
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| 00:26.23 | zz1 | fresh install about a couple of hours ago |
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| 00:26.25 | abrotman | pastebin |
| 00:26.38 | centrx | Fresh install of potato or something |
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| 00:27.10 | zz1 | abrotman what shoud I pastbin? |
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| 00:27.22 | abrotman | the file I've been asking about perhaps ? |
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| 00:28.30 | zz1 | http://pastebin.com/LcJBs9ic |
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| 00:28.35 | iwilcox | zz1: There's no way you got that sources.list from 7.0 |
| 00:28.48 | zz1 | iwilcox no, from 7.1 |
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| 00:29.40 | iwilcox | Not that either. A fresh 7.x wouldn't give you squeeze sources. |
| 00:29.45 | abrotman | dpkg: tell zz1 about wheezy sources.list |
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| 00:30.32 | abrotman | wtf .. |
| 00:30.37 | abrotman | ugh ... |
| 00:30.40 | zz1 | iwilcox I hope you're not saying I am lying! It was a re-image of 7.1 |
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| 00:31.07 | zz1 | we can then question the state of the image of my hosting provider |
| 00:31.14 | abrotman | probably |
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| 00:31.16 | zz1 | thanks abrotman |
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| 00:32.06 | jmcnaught | zz1: so did you install Wheezy yourself, or did you use a customized "Debian 7.1" template from your hosting provider? |
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| 00:32.28 | iwilcox | zz1: If they were that lax with the sources.list, I think I just worked out why your SSH keys got updated behind your back :) |
| 00:32.35 | abrotman | heh |
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| 00:33.05 | iwilcox | zz1: Nonetheless, I'd be regenerating those keys in case yours are the same as every other user of your hosting provider. |
| 00:33.28 | abrotman | iwilcox: plus the entropy thing ? |
| 00:33.48 | abrotman | eh, let's assume it started as 7.x with a bum sources.list ? :) |
| 00:34.03 | iwilcox | You mean general lack of entropy on VMs? |
| 00:34.15 | abrotman | iwilcox: not quite .. |
| 00:34.21 | dvs | /msg dpkg 7.6 |
| 00:34.34 | abrotman | !dsa1571 |
| 00:34.35 | dpkg | Due to a weakness in a random number generator, keys generated after 2006-09-17 (using openssl 0.9.8c-1 and later) need to be regenerated with a newer openssl (at least 0.9.8c-4etch3). See http://www.debian.org/security/2008/dsa-1571 http://wiki.debian.org/SSLkeys . Updated openssh packages that check for weak keys are also available. Ask me about <ssl update><dsa1576><ssh-vulnkey><dsa1571 jokes> |
| 00:34.39 | abrotman | iwilcox: ^^ |
| 00:34.47 | abrotman | can't remember what that affected .. |
| 00:34.54 | iwilcox | Oh, the all random numbers are PIDs thing :) |
| 00:34.57 | abrotman | oh, etch .. ignore that |
| 00:35.03 | zz1 | When I saw the non-us I made a internet search and I found out it was outdated, and a suggestion to install debian-keyring |
| 00:35.40 | dsf | upgrading from 7.5 to 7.6 is done by -dist-upgrade? |
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| 00:36.03 | jmcnaught | zz1: if this is a fresh install and you have the option to boot from a custom iso, I would install Debian yourself instead of using the provider's customized image, which was clearly done by someone incompetent |
| 00:36.16 | dsf | i ask because of sources.list not sure if need to modify |
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| 00:36.49 | dvs | dsf: yeah, that'll work |
| 00:37.30 | dsf | ok because it used wheezy & wheezy/updates, no need to name it to stable & stable/updates? |
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| 00:37.38 | dvs | no |
| 00:38.06 | dsf | cool, i hope this works fine, upgrading to jessie failed badly because of not possible restart sshd |
| 00:38.13 | dsf | even when using screen |
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| 00:39.35 | zz1 | jmcnaught I don't have that option |
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| 00:40.25 | jmcnaught | zz1: well it might be difficult to figure out what else is wrong with the image. Personally I wouldn't use it except for personal learning server |
| 00:40.28 | zz1 | http://cl.ly/image/3S12351T2W2c here is the source image |
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| 00:40.48 | zz1 | jmcnaught we can say that this is my case |
| 00:40.54 | zz1 | personal learning server |
| 00:41.13 | iwilcox | dsf: Yeah, as I said I think that's bug 749472 |
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| 00:41.51 | dsf | yea it worked |
| 00:41.54 | dsf | gladly |
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| 00:42.28 | iwilcox | Do security updates get rolled into the main repo once released in a point release? |
| 00:42.49 | jmcnaught | zz1: well you should make your sources.list look like the one that the message from dpkg earlier suggested, or take a look at https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList for another example. After doing "apt-get update" you might also want to do "apt-get upgrade" and check to see if it says anything was held back during the upgrade. It might even be necessary to do "apt-get dist-upgrade" to get a proper Wheezy system going. |
| 00:43.07 | dvs | iwilcox: I think so since they are mentioned in the release letter. |
| 00:43.49 | zz1 | jmcnaught thank for double checking. I modified my sources list according to dpkg and run aptitude update (as that's what **it** suggested) |
| 00:44.05 | zz1 | going to update and upgrade |
| 00:44.09 | jmcnaught | zz1: i would also consider running a search like 'aptitude search "?installed?not(?origin(debian))"' to check for non-debian packages they might have installed. Or get a better host :) |
| 00:44.25 | iwilcox | dvs: I was looking at openjdk which seems to have different stable and stable-sec versions in the tracker. Confuses me. |
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| 00:45.08 | iwilcox | dvs: (Because I'd imagine that directly after a point release, for all packages, stable == stable-sec) |
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| 00:45.26 | zz1 | jmcnaught it was a good idea to upgrade, indeed: Reading state information... Done |
| 00:45.27 | zz1 | The following packages will be upgraded: |
| 00:45.27 | zz1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:45.27 | zz1 | 6 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. |
| 00:45.27 | zz1 | Need to get 35.7 MB of archives. |
| 00:45.27 | *** kick/#debian [zz1!~debhelper@unaffiliated/debhelper] by debhelper (flood. Please use http://paste.debian.net instead.) |
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| 00:46.06 | jmcnaught | zz1: don't paste into the channel or the bots will get you :) |
| 00:46.17 | zz1 | jmcnaught I noticed :) |
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| 00:46.27 | iwilcox | zz1: Those just look like 7.6's updates to me but ICBW |
| 00:47.50 | zz1 | Well, I got a nice upgrade log |
| 00:47.53 | zz1 | seems plausible |
| 00:48.14 | zz1 | much better than the previous I got |
| 00:48.16 | zz1 | :) |
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| 00:50.23 | iwilcox | dvs: I think the answer might be "sometimes"; "apt-cache policy openjdk-6-jre-headless" on a 7.6 box with current lists certainly names a security source as the candidate for me. |
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| 00:52.21 | zz1 | jmcnaught aptitude search "?installed?not(?origin(debian))" returned nothing |
| 00:53.01 | jmcnaught | zz1: that's good news. I think I missed something earlier about your SSH host keys.. did you replace the ones provided with your own? |
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| 00:54.27 | zz1 | SSH keys? No. The fact is, I ssh'd as root as soon as the image was ready, then updated and upgrade from 71. to 7.5 (with whacky sources.list), then created a new user, ssh'd iwith that one and the key was changed |
| 00:55.32 | zz1 | so I hesitated but checked in the root session: the key there was the same one as the new declared by ssh (and offending) so the key used when first logging in as root wasn't used anymore |
| 00:56.06 | zz1 | So I guess I'd better generate a new key? |
| 00:56.31 | iwilcox | "checked in the root session"? You mean, said "yes" to "are you sure you want to connect", then checked? |
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| 00:56.56 | iwilcox | Or you already had another session open in which to check? |
| 00:57.16 | iwilcox | Because the first way would not be safe. |
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| 00:59.34 | zz1 | iwilcox no |
| 00:59.43 | zz1 | I had another session open |
| 00:59.54 | iwilcox | Just making sure :) |
| 01:00.05 | zz1 | Better safe than sorry :) |
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| 01:01.40 | iwilcox | I'd generate a new key, in your position. |
| 01:02.13 | iwilcox | Actually I'd probably go with jmcnaught's suggestion of "get a better host" in your position ;) |
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| 01:06.07 | Aeiri | im curious if the upgrade caused the key to change... it shouldnt in theory but the timing is too coincidental |
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| 01:06.40 | zz1 | Well I can check if the key changed again |
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| 01:07.18 | zz1 | It didn't |
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| 01:08.11 | mranonymous | How can I disable physical keys in synaptic? |
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| 01:08.51 | levo | i installed debain cd1, it loads on command line, isn't there any desktop environment installed along cd1? |
| 01:09.08 | homecable | type startx |
| 01:09.12 | Guest83680 | a |
| 01:09.31 | mranonymous | levo: did you select installation with X? |
| 01:09.50 | zz1 | But⦠but⦠sshd_config says PermitRootLogin no |
| 01:09.51 | levo | mranonymous: i just chose "install" |
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| 01:09.58 | levo | not "graphical install" |
| 01:10.08 | zz1 | But I just ssh'd as root! |
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| 01:10.39 | homecable | type as root apt-get install xfce4 xfce-goodies |
| 01:10.43 | dvs | levo: That doesnt matter really. What really matters if he kept the "Desktop Environment" option selected |
| 01:11.35 | levo | dvs: maybe i haven't seen it or it wasn't there. what can i do now? |
| 01:12.30 | mranonymous | levo: install your a favourite desktop environment ;) |
| 01:12.31 | abrotman | levo: run tasksel |
| 01:12.54 | dvs | levo: install whachalike! |
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| 01:13.09 | levo | dvs: what's the "sudo" in debian? |
| 01:13.24 | levo | (i'm an ubuntu guy) |
| 01:13.27 | mranonymous | levo: aka su |
| 01:13.30 | dvs | ????? |
| 01:13.45 | dvs | sudo? (the same) |
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| 01:13.59 | iwilcox | zz1: What version of openssh-server is installed? |
| 01:14.00 | zz1 | yes, it's the same in ubuntu |
| 01:14.01 | levo | doesn't recognize it |
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| 01:14.12 | mranonymous | yeah sudo, or su |
| 01:14.37 | jmcnaught | levo: if you created a root user during the installation, use the "su -" command to become root. You'll need to use the root password (not your own). You can also install sudo, and add your user to the sudo group with the command "adduser myusername sudo". |
| 01:14.40 | zz1 | iwilcox do you remember how to check or I should look it up? |
| 01:15.22 | iwilcox | zz1: "PermitRootLogin no" was the default many moons ago, plus your hosting provider might have messed around. I suspect you can only connect because the running openssh hasn't reloaded, but not certain. |
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| 01:15.33 | iwilcox | zz1: dpkg -s openssh-server | grep Version |
| 01:16.00 | zz1 | iwilcox Version: 1:6.0p1-4+deb7u2 |
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| 01:17.38 | iwilcox | zz1: Hmm. Was expecting an odd/squeeze version. Stumped by how you've ended up with 'no'. |
| 01:17.59 | zz1 | iwilcox well, I edited |
| 01:18.00 | levo | jmcnaught: another problem is it doesn't get the packages from the repos, it asks for deb CD |
| 01:18.03 | zz1 | it was yes |
| 01:18.15 | zz1 | or shoud I comment it instead? |
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| 01:19.01 | jmcnaught | levo: you can update the /etc/apt/sources.list and probably just comment out the CD. Or just use the CD. See https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList for an example of what the file should look like |
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| 01:19.43 | iwilcox | zz1: I'd set it back to "yes" and "service ssh reload" |
| 01:19.58 | zz1 | You would allow root login? |
| 01:20.12 | iwilcox | Yes. |
| 01:20.14 | hodwik | Does anyone know what the terminal command to run odeskteam is? I thought it would be... odeskteam, but apparently not |
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| 01:20.42 | iwilcox | zz1: Have a read of /usr/share/doc/openssh-server/README.Debian.gz |
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| 01:21.38 | iwilcox | zz1: Your call, but the policy there makes sense to me. |
| 01:21.39 | hodwik | nevermind, got it |
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| 01:21.53 | zz1 | mh, ok |
| 01:22.01 | zz1 | how do I read it? |
| 01:22.08 | iwilcox | zless it? |
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| 01:22.35 | zz1 | I know I should feel stupid to ask, and I do so, but I am a beginner |
| 01:22.51 | zz1 | thanks |
| 01:22.54 | zz1 | zless'd |
| 01:23.37 | iwilcox | If folks treat you badly for asking, you're in the wrong room. |
| 01:24.33 | zz1 | iwilcox I think I'll switch to no |
| 01:24.37 | zz1 | after reading |
| 01:24.56 | zz1 | Because I plan to just have 2 users on that machine |
| 01:25.08 | zz1 | root and not |
| 01:25.11 | dvs | !berate iwilcox |
| 01:25.11 | iwilcox | As long as your decision is informed, that's fine :) |
| 01:25.55 | zz1 | disallowing root means that an attacker has 50% less users he can compromise |
| 01:26.13 | zz1 | and with root he already has the username right |
| 01:26.36 | zz1 | while with the other user he have to guess it / get it from me |
| 01:26.44 | jmcnaught | zz1: for SSH i also prefer to disable password authentication and only use keys |
| 01:27.14 | iwilcox | zz1: I'm sure you'll find plenty of debate back and forth in the archived bug reports for openssh-server; since there's no right answer I won't debate it with you here. |
| 01:27.24 | zz1 | :-) |
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| 01:27.56 | zz1 | jmcnaught yes, I'll do it |
| 01:28.03 | zz1 | but for tonight that's enough |
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| 01:29.23 | jmcnaught | zz1: Debian's fun eh? If you haven't already found them, I highly recommend the Debian Administrator's Handbook and Debian Reference, along with others that you can find here https://www.debian.org/doc/ (or install as packages on your local computer) |
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| 01:29.41 | iwilcox | Plus maybe the Securing Debian thing |
| 01:30.06 | zz1 | Ouch! |
| 01:30.16 | jmcnaught | yeah that one too |
| 01:30.20 | zz1 | I don't even know bash! |
| 01:30.27 | zz1 | I'll try to learn little by little |
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| 01:30.50 | jmcnaught | well these are all good books, and even if you just read a little at a time it'll be very rewarding |
| 01:30.53 | iwilcox | zz1: Not a criticism. It's nice to have a shopping list of hardening steps so you can make a well informed choice on each. |
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| 01:32.00 | zz1 | iwilcox Indeed. Thanks for all guys |
| 01:32.14 | zz1 | I'm off to bed. See you |
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| 01:32.20 | jmcnaught | zz1: peace |
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| 01:37.29 | dsf | gn8 |
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| 01:42.42 | justanotheruser | What is the best ways to view pdfs from within chrome without using a website? |
| 01:43.00 | iwilcox | I thought Chrome had pdf.js built in? |
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| 01:48.06 | temhaa | hi |
| 01:48.16 | and0r | hey |
| 01:48.27 | temhaa | I have mysql master slave replication on debian servers |
| 01:48.35 | temhaa | and replication has broken |
| 01:49.26 | temhaa | I reconfigred slave host and when I run change master to master_host... command I get error audit and syslog: http://paste.debian.net/109774/ |
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| 01:59.46 | Extensa5630G | given an already-installed amd64 package like libfreetype6, a game.deb file depends on its i386 version, it seems like it's impossible to install the latter one given i got hte amd64 version, should i remove the amd64 one? |
| 01:59.57 | Extensa5630G | i use demian wheezy amd64 kde |
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| 02:00.42 | mentor | Extensa5630G: With multiarch you can install both |
| 02:01.23 | Extensa5630G | mentor: though i enabled i386 support, i still can't install it |
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| 02:01.48 | mentor | Extensa5630G: Define "can't" |
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| 02:01.57 | Extensa5630G | mentor: sudo apt-get install libvorbisfile3:i386 gets "E: Unable to locate package libvorbisfile3" |
| 02:02.59 | mentor | Have you added i386 sources? |
| 02:03.37 | mentor | Added the i386 architecture |
| 02:03.45 | Extensa5630G | mentor: sure thing, i wrote sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386 |
| 02:04.02 | Extensa5630G | *before. |
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| 02:04.45 | mentor | Did you then update? |
| 02:05.03 | Extensa5630G | mentor: my bad...no |
| 02:05.06 | Extensa5630G | updating now then |
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| 02:05.16 | superstraw | at work, our suse boxes need cve security patching every month. does debian stable require this as well, or is that just a suse thing? |
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| 02:05.39 | Extensa5630G | mentor: sudo dpkg --update-avail ? |
| 02:05.48 | Extensa5630G | or apt-get update? :o |
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| 02:06.51 | jmcnaught | superstraw: Debian gets security updates as soon as possible instead of waiting a month. There's a Debian Security Announcements mailing list you can subscribe to to get alerted when updates are available |
| 02:06.54 | mentor | superstraw: All security updates come via the security updates mechanism |
| 02:06.55 | dvs | superstraw: it doesn't require patching but it's a Very Good Idea |
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| 02:07.13 | mentor | Extensa5630G: The latter |
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| 02:08.47 | superstraw | so basically apt-get update;apg-get upgrade will keep me good? |
| 02:09.15 | superstraw | because the admin who is in charge of those boxes (90 suse boxes) makes it sound like a major undertaking. |
| 02:09.27 | mentor | Well, assuming you have the security updates in your sources.list |
| 02:09.32 | superstraw | yeah I do. |
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| 02:09.40 | mentor | However, it's a good idea to keep an eye on these things |
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| 02:19.00 | Extensa5630G | is the packages founded for debian amd64 the same as the i386 version?or there might be some packages that exist solely for a specific architecture? |
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| 02:20.22 | nevyn | Extensa5630G: you can run i386 packages ona amd64 system |
| 02:20.28 | nevyn | sometimes that's required |
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| 02:38.39 | erin1983684 | hi peeps |
| 02:38.59 | erin1983684 | i asm running xmonad and i am looking for a good interface with xrandr for my screens.. any ideas? |
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| 02:46.17 | erin1983684 | hello |
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| 02:46.19 | erin1983684 | ?? |
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| 02:50.06 | crippledmonk | hi erin1983684 |
| 02:50.39 | erin1983684 | 7hi |
| 02:50.48 | erin1983684 | xrandr --output CRT2 --primary --left-of DFP1 --output DFP1 |
| 02:50.51 | erin1983684 | xrandr: screen cannot be larger than 1920x1920 (desired size 3600x1080) |
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| 02:51.04 | erin1983684 | i keep getting this error but no mode seems to work. i dont got time for this crap today |
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| 02:52.16 | crippledmonk | i cant directly help you but there might be someone over on the #crunchbang or ##crunchbang who knows the answer if you dont find it here. |
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| 02:53.18 | oxez | hmm using "dch -i" or commands similar open vim.basic instead of vim.gtk. Using update-alternatives --config editor I can clearly see that vim.gtk is the default. Why does it insist on using the wrong one? |
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| 02:57.36 | erin1983684 | ok so i cann change sizes now but i cant get it to stop mirroring |
| 02:57.51 | erin1983684 | it bitches about the mode thing again ad again |
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| 02:58.37 | Aeiri | --auto might help... xrandr --output CRT2 --auto --output DFP1 --right-of CRT2 --auto |
| 02:58.46 | Aeiri | also what video driver are you using? |
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| 03:00.46 | homecable | for a server with 2 gigs of ram 32bit or 64bit ? |
| 03:01.20 | Aeiri | id just use 64-bit for future expansion |
| 03:01.36 | Aeiri | even if you didnt, if the processor supports 64-bit just use 64-bit |
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| 03:02.17 | erin1983684 | ok so i cann change sizes now but i cant get it to stop mirroring xrandr --output CRT2 --primary --auto --left-of DFP1 --output DFP1 --auto |
| 03:02.21 | erin1983684 | xrandr --output CRT2 --primary --auto --left-of DFP1 --output DFP1 --auto |
| 03:02.23 | erin1983684 | xrandr: screen cannot be larger than 1920x1920 (desired size 3600x1080) |
| 03:02.39 | erin1983684 | gahhh |
| 03:02.47 | Aeiri | do DFP1 --right-of, not CRT2 --left-of |
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| 03:04.38 | erin1983684 | ok |
| 03:05.50 | erin1983684 | erin@ephiny:/$xrandr --output DFP1 --right-of CRT2 --auto |
| 03:05.52 | erin1983684 | xrandr: screen cannot be larger than 1920x1920 (desired size 3600x1080) |
| 03:06.42 | erin1983684 | it just keeps going up how is that ok? |
| 03:06.44 | Aeiri | can you pastebin the output of just plain `xrandr`? |
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| 03:08.25 | erin1983684 | yeah |
| 03:09.04 | erin1983684 | http://sprunge.us/HScA |
| 03:09.47 | erin1983684 | and here is my lspci too |
| 03:09.49 | erin1983684 | http://sprunge.us/TTNP |
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| 03:12.15 | Aeiri | try: xrandr --output CRT2 --primary --mode 1680x1050 --output DFP1 --right-of CRT2 --mode 1920x1080 |
| 03:13.22 | erin1983684 | split noooo |
| 03:13.22 | erin1983684 | you still here |
| 03:13.32 | erin1983684 | xrandr --output CRT2 --primary --mode 1680x1050 --output DFP1 --right-of CRT2 --mode 1920x1080 |
| 03:13.34 | erin1983684 | xrandr: screen cannot be larger than 1920x1920 (desired size 3600x1080) |
| 03:13.37 | erin1983684 | sigh |
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| 03:21.50 | Aeiri | yay |
| 03:21.50 | Aeiri | erin1983684: so how'd that work? lol |
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| 03:26.13 | okee | I keep getting duplicate packages of Google Talk Plugin. I have fixed the problem a few times, but it keeps showing up. Any idea what is causing the problem? |
| 03:26.17 | okee | I keep getting duplicate packages of Google Talk Plugin. I have fixed the problem a few times, but it keeps showing up. Any idea what is causing the problem? |
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| 03:27.28 | somiaj | okee: what do you mean? I didn't think google talk was a part of debian so are you using some third party tool to install it or some third party repo that is being buggy? |
| 03:27.53 | okee | somiaj> No, it is in the repo. |
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| 03:28.28 | somiaj | it is? what is the name of the package? |
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| 03:28.39 | Aeiri | okee: are you talking about a plugin to pidgin or something? |
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| 03:29.01 | okee | somiaj> Name of the plugin is google-talkplugin |
| 03:29.10 | somiaj | or are you sure you aren't insatlling it from some thrid party repo in your sources.list |
| 03:29.13 | somiaj | ,v google-talkplugin |
| 03:29.14 | judd | No package named 'google-talkplugin' was found in i386. |
| 03:29.19 | somiaj | there is no package named that in debian |
| 03:29.28 | okee | Aeiri> No this has nothing to do with Pidgin. Google Talk Plugin gives you the ability to use your browser for voice over IP. |
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| 03:30.05 | okee | somiaj> that is not true. Do a search using the following, and it will come up: sudo apt-cache search Goolge Talk Plugin |
| 03:30.13 | Aeiri | ubuntu doesnt have that plugin either |
| 03:30.23 | Aeiri | *package |
| 03:30.23 | okee | somiaj> It is one of the most popular packages in the Debian repository. Where have you been????? |
| 03:30.34 | okee | Aeiri> Yes, it is a package. |
| 03:30.56 | Aeiri | https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=google-talkplugin&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all |
| 03:30.58 | somiaj | okee: what is the name of the package from the debian repo. |
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| 03:31.13 | okee | Aeiri> And one that is download all over the world regularly from the Debian repository |
| 03:31.15 | somiaj | okee: can you put the ouput of 'apt-cache policy google-talkplugin' at paste.debian.net |
| 03:31.17 | binaryhermit | I think it's in Google's repository, not any official Debian repository |
| 03:31.26 | okee | somiaj> The name of the package is google-talkplugin |
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| 03:31.31 | fishcooker | why setting pptp client on debian seems more difficult than windows.. http://paste.debian.net/109779/ |
| 03:31.43 | fishcooker | with the same name and password |
| 03:31.59 | okee | binaryhermit> It doesn't sound like you have been reading the posts. If you do an apt-cache search, it will come up. |
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| 03:32.09 | okee | I take it a lot of folks are not in the US who are posting? |
| 03:32.22 | Amarande | hrm. better to install wheezy and then dist-upgrade to jessie, or better to install jessie directly? |
| 03:32.29 | Amarande | (in the general case. usually I do just install testing directly, btw, FWIW) |
| 03:32.36 | Aeiri | im in the US, that was a full debian repo search i posted.... it could be in a third party repo or something |
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| 03:33.20 | somiaj | okee: please give me the output I asked for. Just because you have a repo enabled does not mean it is offically debian. |
| 03:33.48 | okee | somiaj> What output are you looking for. I didn't notice that you asked for something. |
| 03:34.09 | somiaj | okee: 'apt-cache policy google-talkplugin' -- put that at paste.debian.net |
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| 03:34.59 | erin1983684 | Aeiri: nope same error |
| 03:35.06 | erin1983684 | xrandr --output CRT2 --primary --mode 1680x1050 --output DFP1 --right-of CRT2 --mode 1920x1080 |
| 03:35.09 | erin1983684 | xrandr: screen cannot be larger than 1920x1920 (desired size 3600x1080) |
| 03:35.17 | okee | somiaj> http://paste.debian.net/109780/ |
| 03:35.44 | Aeiri | thats a google hosted repo |
| 03:36.01 | somiaj | okee: notice how the source is http://dl.google.com/linux/talkplugin/deb/ -- that is not an offical debian repo, that is a custom google repo you are using. We do not support third party repos |
| 03:36.10 | somiaj | okee: you are having a bug with their thrid party repo, report it to them. |
| 03:36.18 | okee | somiaj> Installed says that I have amd64 installed, but I get a lot of error message when running an update, indicating that I have duplicate packages installed -- including i386 |
| 03:36.24 | somiaj | debian does not provide a google talk plugin as it is their priorpoirty software. |
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| 03:36.51 | okee | somiaj> No, the bug appears to be with the debian updated, and not the product. |
| 03:36.57 | somiaj | sounds like you may have some conflict with multiarch then, but you need to manage your repos correctly. |
| 03:37.09 | okee | somiaj> The product works fine, except in Chromium (not Chrome). |
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| 03:37.29 | okee | The problem is that when I run update it liters my drive with versions other than amd64. |
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| 03:37.51 | Aeiri | he never said anything about the program itself, he's talking about the repository |
| 03:38.04 | somiaj | okee: again we do not support mixing third party repos on debian. I dont' know how to make this more clear. |
| 03:38.46 | okee | somiaj> If that is so, then why is it in your repository. I am definitely not dealing with Americans. The puritanical attitude of non-commercial rules this channel. |
| 03:39.00 | Aeiri | its in Google's repository, not debian's |
| 03:39.04 | somiaj | okee: but if you awnt you could look at the output of 'apt-cache policy'. What you are talking about is a common thing that happens when mixing to many third party repos and apt cannot figure out how to upgrade things. |
| 03:39.14 | Aeiri | Google apparenlty runs a their own third-party debian repository |
| 03:39.18 | okee | So your way of saing you don't know how to fix the problem is blame the user for mixing commercial software with an open source venue. |
| 03:39.40 | somiaj | okee: it is not part of debian, ttp://dl.google.com/linux/talkplugin/deb/ is a third party repo controled by google. If it is messing with your isntall dont' use it or contact them about it. |
| 03:39.57 | Aeiri | okee: no, we're saying you're reporting a bug to the wrong place, you need to talk to google because they run that repository |
| 03:40.01 | okee | Aeiri> That might be true, but Debbie added it to the Debbie repo. I got this software from Debian, and not Goolge. I find it amazing you don't realize this is one of your most downloaded packages. |
| 03:40.20 | okee | sudo apt-cache update is a Google repository? |
| 03:40.39 | okee | Aeiri> I will report it to Google. |
| 03:40.47 | erin1983684 | Aeiri: i am going afk working on another server tonight thanks for the help |
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| 03:41.40 | Aeiri | okee: apt supports using repositories hosted by ANYONE, you yourself could host one in your basement if you want... google decided to host their own so that they could distribute their software instead of get it inside of the official debian repositories.... if they are mismanaging it (i dont have any idea if they are), it is their bug, not debian's.... just like if your basement run repo lost internet connection, that is not a problem with the debian repo |
| 03:41.52 | Aeiri | erin1983684: sorry i couldnt fix taht, im not sure whats going on there |
| 03:42.01 | somiaj | okee: just because you isntall something with 'apt-get' doesn't mean the software comes from google. Apt allows you to add third party repos to your system but if you aren't careful that is a very common way people braek their system. But if you are having troubles with upgrades it is most likely due to different repos you are mixing. Look at the output of 'apt-cache policy' to see all the repos you have you can get pacakges from. |
| 03:42.04 | erin1983684 | me either |
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| 03:42.53 | somiaj | arg mentsofatwre comes from debian. You ahve clearly showed us it is non-debian software. Doesn't mean it can't run, just means debian doesn't have knowledge of how it was made or configured. |
| 03:43.28 | okee | somiaj> It is all wheezy |
| 03:43.45 | okee | somiaj> And open printing for my printer; nothing more. |
| 03:43.53 | okee | I need to run. Catch up with you folks tomorrow. |
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| 03:45.07 | Aeiri | what does his printer have to do with it |
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| 03:45.35 | somiaj | not sure, but apprentally he didn't get the point. |
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| 03:51.57 | Amarande | well, time to download the latest install snapshot for jessie |
| 03:52.04 | Amarande | btw, did they fix the wifi netinst bug in jessie yet? |
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| 03:52.15 | Amarande | from what I'm seeing wheezy was unaffected, but jessie is |
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| 03:53.47 | somiaj | Amarande: are you really wanting to test the installer? The testing installer snapshot is not the suggested way to install testing. |
| 03:54.13 | somiaj | yes the testing installer is usually buggy and I dno't se why changes in the testing installer would effect wheezy as it is still the same installer |
| 03:54.27 | Amarande | somiaj: that's why I mused whether I should install wheezy and then dist-upgrade |
| 03:54.36 | Amarande | although generally almost every time I run debian I run testing, and almost always use the snapshots |
| 03:54.57 | Amarande | it is a tad irritating to have to dig out an ethernet cable to install testing atm, though not too much so. |
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| 03:56.01 | somiaj | !testing installer |
| 03:56.01 | dpkg | Repeat after me: the testing installer is for testing the <installer>, not for installing <testing>. To install testing, do a minimal installation using the <stable> installer and ask me about <stable->testing>. Installer bugs should be filed against the debian-installer pseudopackage. http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ |
| 03:56.25 | somiaj | Amarande: the suggested method is install a stable minimial system (no desktop, no nothing except a min base system). Upgrade the base system then continue to install the rest of your software. |
| 03:57.25 | somiaj | Amarande: nice thing is unless you have really new hardware, the non-free stable netinstaller shoudl get your network working just fine. (: |
| 03:57.50 | somiaj | just skip the step where you select additional software to install and save that until after the dist-upgrade, then you inimize the stuff you have to updgrade/reinstall |
| 03:57.52 | Amarande | somiaj: and heh, I keep forgetting that about the testing installer, which I always assumed was for installing testing :) |
| 03:58.13 | Amarande | interestingly, jessie always worked fine post installation, but during installation, it doesn't seem to authenticate wifi properly |
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| 03:58.55 | Amarande | tty4's logs always show it doing so and then dropping the connection "by local choice" or something along those lines, which is weird |
| 03:59.39 | Amarande | (it's not the driver, atheros 9485 is beautifully supported on linux, I've actually been recommending this rosewill pci-e card fairly regularly, maybe that'll pass by word of mouth and cut down on wifi troubles here, too :) |
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| 04:00.12 | somiaj | Amarande: I think the wifi issues are a non-free issue blown out of context |
| 04:00.51 | somiaj | Amarande: personally if you put the firmware on the chip (like atheros) or you distribute as a sperate file should not really change things, but it does a lot. And I would rather have a firmware file I can upgrade than flash a chip when there is an issue with my hardware. |
| 04:01.07 | Amarande | somiaj: yeah, I'm not sure how common it is in practise (although the non-free blob that has to be loaded every boot seems to be a common one) |
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| 04:01.35 | Amarande | sadly, the non-free blob can't be reconciled with dfsg, and a lot of people won't (or can't in the case of laptop users) alter their wifi card choice |
| 04:01.54 | somiaj | well wifi is govered by law and at some level the hardware manfucatures need some sort of firmware. Hiding it on the chip doesn't chagne the fact that the drivers are still talking to some firmware to control the hardware. |
| 04:01.59 | Amarande | would be nice if there would be open source firmware for the chips that need it, although I'm not sure that's legal in pretty much *any* jurisdiction :( |
| 04:02.44 | Amarande | at the least, it would probably require an even larger proliferation of chips (in an area that always seems to be one of FOSS's weakest already - wifi and sound cards always seem to be our worst) since you'd need different SKUs for every region |
| 04:02.55 | Amarande | as channel limitation would need to be done in the hardware in order to keep software from breaking the law |
| 04:02.57 | somiaj | but in the free software world providing an additional firmware file vs having that firmware on the hardware itself seems to be a major difference. |
| 04:03.22 | Amarande | yeah, it's always been one of the things I've regarded as very double-edged about debian |
| 04:03.35 | Amarande | the philosophy is nice, but there's some things that in practise you just got to have the non-free blob for |
| 04:03.53 | Amarande | like I said, I'm glad I chose a card that works flawlessly on linux |
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| 04:04.17 | somiaj | its less debian and more the free software fanatics in my opinion. I like debian as it gives you the best of both worlds. It is nice it clearly states what is free and non-free. But this one issue needs to be cleaned up |
| 04:04.17 | Amarande | and for only 15USD at that (ironically most of the expensive wifi cards are the ones with the problem LOL) |
| 04:05.11 | Amarande | btw, someone should amend dpkg's stable->testing description |
| 04:05.16 | somiaj | The one I find most intersting is how vbox is now part of non-free because it uses non-free software to compile the free BIOS it uses. So despite the whole code being purely free, because it requires non-free software to build one small part of the package, the whole package is classified as non-free |
| 04:05.22 | somiaj | what is wrong with it Amarande ? |
| 04:05.31 | Amarande | unless aptitude is not, in fact, in the base system, it should ideally be saying aptitude instead of apt-get, shouldn't it? |
| 04:05.41 | Amarande | especially since general advice is that you oughtn't to mix use of the two |
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| 04:05.55 | somiaj | apt-get and aptitude are both standard or higher packages and should be present on all debian systems |
| 04:06.12 | somiaj | no mix the use of apt-get and aptitude all you want, they share the same back end database of dpkg |
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| 04:06.29 | somiaj | the main difference is the logic they use in resolving dependencies, not in how they interact with the debian system |
| 04:06.32 | Amarande | (mind you, when I first installed debian, it was back in the dark old days of dselect, heh) |
| 04:06.40 | somiaj | Amarande: /msg dpkg why apt-get, /msg dpkg why aptitude, /msg dpkg why not aptitude |
| 04:07.26 | Amarande | ah, they're basically becoming almost the same program |
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| 04:08.02 | Amarande | if it wasn't for that whole ncurses memory thing, I betcha a future for it could be to just make it one executable that uses argv[0] to reconcile the two syntaxes smoothly |
| 04:08.35 | sandman13 | what is the keyword to search for Apache Web Server in judd? |
| 04:08.52 | somiaj | besides for the logic (and speed) yes. In certain circumstances one will do a task better than another. |
| 04:09.16 | somiaj | sandman13: do you want a package name or to compare versions on the various release. Why not just use apt-cache search on your debian install? |
| 04:09.52 | sandman13 | somiaj: compare versions on the various release |
| 04:09.55 | Amarande | judd? I don't think that's a debian distribution |
| 04:09.55 | judd | No package named 'don't' was found in wheezy/i386. |
| 04:10.06 | Amarande | oh, I forgot about the search bot *facepalm* |
| 04:10.21 | somiaj | Amarande: I think you may have been thinking about synamptic. That in the past has had troubles not playing nicely with apt and some advice is don't mix the two. I'm not sure about the current state of synamptic though asi I refuse to isntall/use it |
| 04:10.32 | somiaj | sandman13: talking about 'version packagename' or just 'v packagenmae'? |
| 04:10.57 | sandman13 | somiaj: I tried apache, httpd, Apache nothing gave the result |
| 04:11.01 | Amarande | I was thinking like "wow, judd, that has to be a pretty old release" |
| 04:11.21 | somiaj | sandman13: you need the right packagename, '/msg judd v apache2 amd64' for isntance |
| 04:11.30 | sandman13 | somiaj: got it |
| 04:11.31 | Amarande | especially since I've used at some point every version of debian, or used an adjacent (so I would know about it as a nearby version) version, since Bo |
| 04:11.32 | sandman13 | thanks |
| 04:11.42 | somiaj | sandman13: you can use use your system to search for package names (judd might but not sure how to tell judd to search, I think it can and also can search with apt-file) |
| 04:12.25 | sandman13 | somiaj: I know Stable has Apache 2.2 but I wasn't sure so, BTW I am currently on Archlinux |
| 04:12.38 | sandman13 | so apt-cache search won't be an option |
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| 04:12.53 | somiaj | sandman13: yea I don't know judd that well, packages.debian.org has nice search tools. |
| 04:13.04 | sandman13 | somiaj: got it |
| 04:13.06 | somiaj | sandman13: I think arch has debootstrap in its repos, use that to make a debian chroot and play around int here. (: |
| 04:13.07 | jpinx | sandman13: /msg judd versions apache2 |
| 04:13.41 | sandman13 | somiaj: thanks for the info will definately try out |
| 04:13.43 | jpinx | sandman13: on your own box #aptitude search apache |
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| 04:14.19 | somiaj | jpinx: well we need to have him create a debian chroot first, I think he was wanting to use judd to do that for him since he didn't have a debian isntall available |
| 04:14.45 | sandman13 | somiaj: I have Debian install availabe, actually I dualboot |
| 04:15.07 | jpinx | sandman13: in here /msg dpkg apache |
| 04:15.17 | jpinx | somiaj: he can search in here then |
| 04:15.32 | sandman13 | got it guys thanks for the info |
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| 04:15.52 | jpinx | sandman13: a vm would be handier ;) |
| 04:15.52 | somiaj | jpinx: yea I don't know the syntax to have judd run apt-cache search or apt-file, I fairly sure the bot can, but not positive |
| 04:16.29 | Amarande | oh, yay, I still do have my debian 7.5 and last month's jessie netinst available |
| 04:16.36 | sandman13 | jpinx: no I have enough space available to run both of them, |
| 04:16.36 | jpinx | somiaj: use dpkg |
| 04:16.59 | jpinx | sandman13: at the same time ? |
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| 04:17.14 | sandman13 | jpinx: not at the same time but alternately |
| 04:17.32 | jpinx | if one is a vm they are both running |
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| 04:18.20 | sandman13 | jpinx: I rarely face such scenario which require both running at the same time |
| 04:20.05 | jpinx | sandman13: I have multiple vm's with jessie, sid, XP and android all available to run without rebooting |
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| 04:22.33 | Aeiri | a VM with android? do you mean the dev VM stuff or are you using standard VM software for that? im just curious i never thought of running android in any default VM software im not sure how well that would work |
| 04:22.54 | Aeiri | i guess thats a dumb idea since the official dev VM stuff works fine |
| 04:22.59 | Aeiri | im being stupid ignore me |
| 04:23.21 | somiaj | Aeiri: lots of vm software will actually emulate forign chipsets too, so you can say run a arm chipset emulation on your amd64 chip to test out andriod or deveolope for it. |
| 04:24.07 | Aeiri | yeah im aware it would work for the architecture, i just mean the interface of dealing with it might be a little weird with say KVM or vbox or something |
| 04:24.44 | jpinx | Aeiri: I did that before I had any android devices - it runs a messy 2.something version but was enough to let me have a look. Now I hav seperate android devices and don't really need it - but it's there in my vbox list ;) |
| 04:25.29 | Aeiri | jpinx: why didnt you just use the official development environment provided by Google, though? its already a VM environment and is pretty much designed to be a perfect android experience on the desktop |
| 04:25.53 | jpinx | Aeiri: I didn't find that at the time. |
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| 04:26.19 | Aeiri | ah i see |
| 04:26.24 | jpinx | now I have some experience with android I came back to debian :) |
| 04:26.47 | jpinx | too much google in android ;) very definitely non-free ;) |
| 04:27.31 | Aeiri | there are ways of getting android more free, but... kind of moot... android is for phones, debian is for computers :P |
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| 04:28.21 | jpinx | Aeiri: yep - but I can't be bothered rooting my phone -- I turn it off instead !! |
| 04:29.28 | jpinx | most android apks for messenger thingies that everyone uses have a "computer version" - usually for windows - so they run ok on an XP vm or sometimes in wine |
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| 04:29.53 | sandman13 | jpinx: I have a Window 7 vm but that doesn't work as expected, |
| 04:30.05 | sandman13 | doesn't support the apps well |
| 04:30.16 | jpinx | sandman13: I've heard that / is not happy in vm's |
| 04:30.21 | Aeiri | jpinx: messenger thingies? |
| 04:30.25 | jpinx | s///7 |
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| 04:30.39 | Aeiri | windows 7 works fine in vbox for me |
| 04:31.03 | Aeiri | pain in the ass to get it to work in kvm, but i got it working there too |
| 04:31.05 | jpinx | Aeiri: wechat, viber, line, etc -- there's hundreds of them now |
| 04:31.18 | somiaj | I was surprised how well win7 worked compared to even other oses in a vm |
| 04:31.23 | jpinx | all doing a better job than skype now |
| 04:31.29 | somiaj | Aeiri: I had no trobule getting it to work in kvm |
| 04:31.42 | jpinx | somiaj: XP runs really well in a vm ;) |
| 04:32.24 | jpinx | debian stable is a good host apart from the old version of vbox in the repos |
| 04:32.29 | sandman13 | I hate the fact that Skype dropped the support for ALSA and now I have to use PulseAudio |
| 04:32.29 | somiaj | yea I have an xp vm too, I needed something to do with my keys I get from my laptops....since you really can't avoid bying them. |
| 04:32.39 | Aeiri | dissecting that.... "XP runs", correct, "XP runs really well", you've lost me :P... without official security support its useless now |
| 04:33.00 | somiaj | sandman13: what? When did that happen, skype works fine for me and I don't use pulse (though it has been a month or two since i've used skype) |
| 04:33.07 | Aeiri | except for security research or something |
| 04:33.16 | sandman13 | somiaj: version 4.3 |
| 04:33.25 | Aeiri | say what |
| 04:33.41 | Aeiri | arg |
| 04:33.58 | Aeiri | pulseaudio just causes so much problems for me.... it just runs away and eats at my CPU no matter what distro |
| 04:34.10 | jpinx | sandman13: I have an old "skype for linux" and it works fine with alsa ;) |
| 04:34.15 | Aeiri | i like the idea though, and its miles ahead of esound and such |
| 04:34.29 | sandman13 | I use skype on a Windows VM |
| 04:34.31 | Amarande | Aeiri: get more CPU :) |
| 04:34.39 | jpinx | renames pulseaudio painaudio |
| 04:34.46 | Amarande | Aeiri: System won't work well under (specs)? Increase (specs) :) |
| 04:35.03 | Amarande | actually, I did have trouble with pulseaudio not giving sound at one point |
| 04:35.14 | Aeiri | Amarande: i5 should be enough to run a friggin sound server lol |
| 04:35.14 | Amarande | but that was a hardware problem ... kinda hard to blame software devs for hardware problems |
| 04:35.49 | Amarande | Aeiri: you run the XP in a non-networked VM, natch |
| 04:35.56 | Aeiri | sound works fine in it, i can even pair it to my bluetooth receiver and get audio working there... its just it eventually runs away and hangs |
| 04:36.04 | somiaj | I solved my sounds issues in 1999 with an sblive. Been using that card ever since, no issues to date. (: |
| 04:36.08 | sandman13 | I use startup sound and with ALSA, the sound is heard immediately without any slowdown but incase of PA, it takes sometimes and freezes the system for 30s or so |
| 04:36.32 | Aeiri | dmix made sound servers obsolete IMHO |
| 04:38.06 | somiaj | pulse does somethings that alsa can't do, but software mixing is not the feature. Switching sound cards on the fly such as when you plug in to an hdmi device your current running sound programs get routed to the hdmi audio. |
| 04:38.28 | somiaj | I belive there are a few other features that pulse can do that alsa cant |
| 04:38.29 | Aeiri | granted, that is nice |
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| 04:38.53 | Aeiri | im actually not sure if A2DP audio works in ALSA or not, never really tried |
| 04:39.01 | Aeiri | oh wait yeah it does |
| 04:39.03 | somiaj | oh well non-free software is following gnome, I'm not surprised. Hopefully I can stick with skype 4.2 for a while now. |
| 04:39.10 | Aeiri | i did it on an embedded device a lot time ago |
| 04:40.25 | Aeiri | somiaj: at least skype didnt go esound only :P |
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| 04:40.36 | Aeiri | which was gnome |
| 04:40.53 | Amarande | probably following ubuntu and fedora, I suppose |
| 04:40.58 | somiaj | Aeiri: gnome installs pulse by default these days, so skype is assuming it is a standard thing to use. |
| 04:41.24 | Aeiri | everyone installs pulse by default these days, dont they? i guess i havent really messed with KDE in awhile (or any DE for that matter) |
| 04:41.26 | Amarande | I'm just glad Google officially says their .deb packages are for debian and not just ubuntu ... far too much non-free .deb stuff that's only for the latter :( |
| 04:42.07 | Amarande | Fedora I could never get into ... I'm too used to aptitude and yum feels like a foreign language (also, GNOME 3, blech, I'm a KDE guy now) |
| 04:42.37 | somiaj | Amarande: I do have to say that modern day yum is actually quite powerful, and has some features I wish apt would adopt. (: |
| 04:42.44 | Aeiri | yum isnt that bad on cent/rhel at least |
| 04:43.02 | somiaj | I haven't much experience with it, but the ability to undo a recent yum install is really nice. |
| 04:43.04 | Amarande | somiaj: pity fedora's package dependencies aren't set up to let it work that way, if that's the case |
| 04:43.28 | Amarande | the one time I installed recent fedora, I tried to figure out how to install kde and then eradicate gnome3, and the procedure ended in a complaint about dependencies |
| 04:43.42 | somiaj | Amarande: my limited experince with yum is friends who manage cent/rhel machines, maybe that makes a difference s they are more frozen releases. |
| 04:43.56 | Amarande | apparently fedora's base system must be deeply integrated with GNOME |
| 04:43.59 | somiaj | and they aren't using de's |
| 04:44.02 | jpinx | somiaj: same as aptitude purge <recent package> |
| 04:44.23 | Amarande | which probably isn't the case for Cent or RHEL, given that those are more targeted towards things like headless servers where you don't even want X |
| 04:44.37 | Aeiri | i went from gnome2 -> kde3 -> fluxbox -> ion3 -> wmii (blech, huge mistake) -> i3 |
| 04:45.01 | Amarande | although I'm not sure how much longer linux will be using X *shrug* |
| 04:45.02 | somiaj | jpinx: I think it does more than just that, it actually reverts the recent change. But it is something I don't run across that often, it was just somethign my friends like about yum they coudln't find an exact feature in apt. |
| 04:45.07 | Amarande | is Debian staying with X or moving to Wayland long run? |
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| 04:45.40 | Aeiri | im guessing debian will just support whichever you want |
| 04:45.44 | somiaj | Amarande: considering this 'moving to waylend' has been happening for the last 5 years, I still think it is a ways off and debian will not just jump on the bandwagon (though will eventally support it I'm assuming) |
| 04:45.59 | Amarande | wayland feels a little double edged ... one it seems like wm/de choice will be slaughtered because every WM will have to be redone to use wayland instead of x11 |
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| 04:46.20 | Amarande | also, part of me wonders if it's going to cause a bifurcation that will ultimately hurt the robustness of open source (with things like BSD sticking to X) |
| 04:47.00 | somiaj | afiak waylend will have an xlib compadability layer, so you can run your wm/xlib software and not have to only run software built for waylend. |
| 04:47.06 | Aeiri | i dont think it will be a problem with debian, though... debian just lets you build whatever you want, i doubt they'll remove xorg as long as it remains maintained |
| 04:47.11 | somiaj | but I've heard talk about it for years with little actuall movment. |
| 04:47.36 | Amarande | apparently that's considered one of the downsides of wayland ... X is OS agnostic, but wayland is basically linux only, because systemd |
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| 04:48.29 | Aeiri | somiaj: i thought that was mostly for software, not wms? i guess wms should work with a full X compat layer, but still... id rather my WM fully support my display server |
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| 04:48.48 | Aeiri | somiaj: kind of like how macosx has an X compat layer for X software |
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| 04:53.32 | Aeiri | whats the status of wayland anyway? just in general, not adoption... last i saw/tested it it wasnt even really fully useable yet |
| 04:53.56 | sandman13 | Testing will be more stable after November 5? |
| 04:54.03 | sandman13 | 2014 |
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| 04:57.14 | Aeiri | jessie is simply amazing imho.. best debian yet |
| 04:59.17 | Aeiri | just upgraded from wheezy for however many years of use |
| 05:00.01 | jmcnaught | it looks like wayland/weston has packages in jessie. I was just reading the wikipedia article and it looks like progress is a little further than i had thought |
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| 05:00.28 | Aeiri | yeah wayland is in the repos, or at least xwayland (is that the full server?) |
| 05:00.31 | Aeiri | all the libs are there |
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| 05:01.43 | jmcnaught | i'm not sure how useful it will be though.. |
| 05:01.54 | Aeiri | but yeah, if you're afraid of xorg going away, i doubt it will.... just like theres iceweasel and chromium, gnome and kde, arm x86 amd64 ++++++ support, they arent just going to remove it... they removed xfree because xorg is a fork so xfree was useless and did nothing in the repos |
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| 05:03.01 | jmcnaught | i think it's more a matter of the window manager supporting it, and I don't think the version of Gnome in Jessie does. Not sure about KDE and the others |
| 05:03.13 | jmcnaught | but yeah, xorg will be around for a while |
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| 05:03.41 | Aeiri | i have gnome3 installed... i should just try the wayland packages right now |
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| 05:05.04 | Aeiri | i do like one idea that i hope they get into wayland.... if they make wayland a complete DM and locking system, i wont have to worry about crappy third party locking software that is buggy |
| 05:05.31 | Aeiri | i was using one locking system and was able to suspend, resume, and kill the locking program before it popped back up |
| 05:05.53 | Aeiri | slock seems to work well though, havent had any security concerns there |
| 05:06.20 | sandman13 | Aeiri: I am a Debian user for past three months and I don't think I can run Testing |
| 05:06.31 | Aeiri | " |
| 05:06.34 | Aeiri | You can simply launch weston from inside X, or use weston-launch from the console." |
| 05:06.44 | Aeiri | you can run it from inside X? tahts interesting |
| 05:06.53 | jmcnaught | sandman13: I'm a Debian user for several years and I use Wheezy :) |
| 05:06.56 | Aeiri | sandman13: why's that? hardware? |
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| 05:07.27 | sandman13 | Aeiri: it requires sound knowledge of package management which I don't have |
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| 05:08.00 | Aeiri | sandman13: what do you mean? all i did was update the sources.list and run "apt-get dist-upgrade" |
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| 05:09.17 | sandman13 | Aeiri: and when you hit bugs? that is one of the reason why I am not running Testing another reason in my poor download speed 64kB/s max |
| 05:09.46 | Aeiri | i didnt have bugs, but you can order a CD i think off the site and use that as your source repo |
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| 05:09.55 | Aeiri | and 64kb/s max? dayum dude you need to upgrade! |
| 05:10.06 | Aeiri | sandman13: or switch mirrors |
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| 05:10.33 | Aeiri | sandman13: what does something like speedtest.net say about your connection? |
| 05:10.38 | sandman13 | for mirrors I guess http://http.debian.net does the trick |
| 05:10.42 | Aeiri | or speedtest-cli |
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| 05:11.10 | jmcnaught | Aeiri: not everyone lives somewhere that high speed internet is available |
| 05:11.56 | sandman13 | if there was a mirror for Debian in my location then it would be good, they have Ubuntu's here but not other distros |
| 05:12.10 | Aeiri | jmcnaught: im aware... a friend of mine was on 56k for awhile since she lived on a farm |
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| 05:13.08 | Ragonewm | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. Join us at Irc.efnet.org #hardball for our revolution, shoutouts to H3llas / ragone / bucknasty |
| 05:13.08 | Ragoneeg | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. Join us at Irc.efnet.org #hardball for our revolution, shoutouts to H3llas / ragone / bucknasty |
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| 05:13.20 | RagoneWx | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. Join us at Irc.efnet.org #hardball for our revolution, shoutouts to H3llas / ragone / bucknasty |
| 05:13.20 | RagoneBT | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. Join us at Irc.efnet.org #hardball for our revolution, shoutouts to H3llas / ragone / bucknasty |
| 05:13.51 | Aeiri | ... |
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| 05:14.18 | RagoneeO | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. Join us at Irc.efnet.org #hardball for our revolution, shoutouts to H3llas / ragone / KHLMoscow |
| 05:14.19 | Ragonegy | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. Join us at Irc.efnet.org #hardball for our revolution, shoutouts to H3llas / ragone / KHLMoscow |
| 05:14.19 | RagoneCX | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. Join us at Irc.efnet.org #hardball for our revolution, shoutouts to H3llas / ragone / KHLMoscow |
| 05:14.19 | RagoneWZ | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. Join us at Irc.efnet.org #hardball for our revolution, shoutouts to H3llas / ragone / KHLMoscow |
| 05:14.19 | Ragonebw | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. Join us at Irc.efnet.org #hardball for our revolution, shoutouts to H3llas / ragone / KHLMoscow |
| 05:14.19 | RagoneJF | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. Join us at Irc.efnet.org #hardball for our revolution, shoutouts to H3llas / ragone / KHLMoscow |
| 05:14.19 | Ragoneyd | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. Join us at Irc.efnet.org #hardball for our revolution, shoutouts to H3llas / ragone / KHLMoscow |
| 05:14.19 | RagoneGF | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. Join us at Irc.efnet.org #hardball for our revolution, shoutouts to H3llas / ragone / KHLMoscow |
| 05:14.19 | RagoneyR | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. Join us at Irc.efnet.org #hardball for our revolution, shoutouts to H3llas / ragone / KHLMoscow |
| 05:14.19 | RagoneyZ | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. Join us at Irc.efnet.org #hardball for our revolution, shoutouts to H3llas / ragone / KHLMoscow |
| 05:14.29 | Aeiri | lol "spam is off topic" |
| 05:15.05 | Aeiri | a temp ban of Ragone*!*@* woudl be nice |
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| 05:16.37 | Aeiri | wow weston works great inside of X, its like a VM for your display server |
| 05:17.49 | sandman13 | Aeiri: 0.32Mbps Download and 0.45Mbps upload |
| 05:18.00 | Aeiri | eek |
| 05:18.20 | Aeiri | sandman13: are you in a rural area/farm or something? |
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| 05:18.28 | sandman13 | Aeiri: no |
| 05:18.59 | Aeiri | is that your best ISP option? |
| 05:19.03 | Aeiri | or is it a money thing? |
| 05:19.08 | sandman13 | money thing |
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| 05:19.15 | Aeiri | well that i can understand then |
| 05:19.33 | Aeiri | what do you pay? just curious |
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| 05:19.39 | Aeiri | is this ISDN or something? looks liek those speeds |
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| 05:25.17 | Aeiri | somiaj: jmcnaught: we were talking about WM support for wayland, here's a comment from i3way: "Why not using i3 with XWayland? XWayland is a mechanism to allow X11 clients to run in a Wayland session. In Weston, this involves the X server, the DDX and the compositor. A Westonâs plugin is in charge of running an X server and a dummy X WM. Some compositors could implement the X server part in their own codebase. |
| 05:25.23 | Aeiri | <PROTECTED> |
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| 05:27.55 | jmcnaught | Aeiri: yeah as far as I can tell you need to run a window manager that works with Weston, but you'll still be able to use X11 applications. So Weston might be usable for a handful of WMs in Jessie, but I bet most people will be using xorg. |
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| 05:39.01 | mjbjr | I'm trying to get 'persistance' to work with a 7.5 live dvd. At one spot in the deb docks it says to use the 'persistence" boot parameter and in another it says to use 'persistent'. Anyone know which is correct? |
| 05:41.13 | Aeiri | mjbjr: persistence is the feature name, persistent is the bootoption i believe |
| 05:42.10 | mjbjr | Aeiri: that's what I believe, as well, though I'm not getting either to work as expected, and I've got conflicting deb docs. |
| 05:42.20 | Aeiri | links? |
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| 05:44.17 | mjbjr | this is 'persistent' http://live.debian.net/manual/2.x/html/live-manual.en.html#498 and this is 'persistence' http://live.debian.net/manual/3.x/html/live-manual/customizing-run-time-behaviours.en.html#529 |
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| 05:45.25 | Aeiri | mjbjr: looking at it, the first is from 2.x, the second is from 3.x.... im guessing they might have renamed the option |
| 05:46.40 | mjbjr | Aeiri: yeah, it's not working as expected, in either case, so I'm looking all over to see what I can do to get persistence to work... thanks |
| 05:47.06 | Aeiri | mjbjr: http://live.debian.net/manpages/stable/en/html/persistence.conf.5.html |
| 05:47.11 | Aeiri | thats from current stable debian live |
| 05:47.16 | Aeiri | see if that helps |
| 05:47.26 | mjbjr | Aeiri: thanks, will check it out |
| 05:47.29 | Aeiri | http://live.debian.net/manpages/stable/en/html/ |
| 05:47.33 | Aeiri | for general docs |
| 05:48.25 | Aeiri | you might not have to mess with the kernel options yourself, actually... the persistence.conf file seems like it might handle things for you and then another tool might make the build all for you |
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| 05:49.02 | Amarande | you know what would be nice, if we eventually could move to persistent live usb media as the normal means of using a computer, and not have to worry about internal storage at all :) |
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| 05:49.49 | Aeiri | Amarande: i used a system like that for 8 years.... once i moved over to standard install, i kind of felt better since i didnt have to keep rebuilding images and such, much easier to maintain updates, new packages, etc |
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| 05:50.05 | Amarande | Aeiri: actually these days it could be done more efficiently |
| 05:50.26 | Amarande | presumably you can do a standard install to a usb stick, especially with GUID partition addressing |
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| 05:50.42 | mjbjr | Aeiri: the files are created but persistence isn't actually happening, at least in regards to network settings\ |
| 05:51.16 | Amarande | probably would have been a big issue back in the day when fstab required you to have stable partition device names |
| 05:51.35 | Amarande | but nowadays? you could easily just install linux to a 32GB stick or so and not even need an internal drive most of the time |
| 05:53.20 | Aeiri | Amarande: i dont really consider that a "live" install, though, its just a standard install to an external disk |
| 05:53.50 | mjbjr | Amarande: I've yet to have a usb stick used as an system drive, as opposed to sneaker net, last more than a month or two. Just aren't reliable enough. And I use Sand Disks and/or Adata. |
| 05:54.13 | Amarande | Aeiri: well, ultimately the paradigm idea would be that you stick the boot stick into the computer. like we did back in the day, except floppies suck and usb sticks are cool :) |
| 05:54.20 | Amarande | yeah, external-enclosure based ssd might be a better way to implement that |
| 05:54.21 | Aeiri | mjbjr: what about usb3 flash disks? |
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| 05:56.58 | mjbjr | Aeiri: can't find it atm, but it was the latest San Disk available, prolly a USB 3.0 |
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| 05:57.46 | Amarande | mjbjr: more likely 2.0 ... 3.0 usb sticks are hella expensive still |
| 05:57.56 | mjbjr | Aeiri: lasted about 5 weeks, and it didn't get accessed all THAT often! |
| 05:58.10 | Aeiri | i did run live off of usb2 for my primary operating system for 8 years (2003-2011), it worked well, and when i got to work i could just boot the USB into a VM and have it there |
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| 05:58.20 | Aeiri | Amarande: they are $12 |
| 05:58.44 | Amarande | ah, they've come down ... still 60 bucks for a 32GB 3.0 one, though |
| 05:58.46 | Aeiri | Amarande: sorry $10 |
| 05:58.47 | Aeiri | http://www.amazon.com/ADATA-DashDrive-Series-UV128-AUV128-16G-RBE/dp/B00B7JLZUC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1405403910&sr=8-2&keywords=usb3+flash+drive |
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| 05:59.06 | Aeiri | i have a few of these guys: http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Cruzer-Low-Profile-Drive--SDCZ33-016G-B35/dp/B005FYNSZA/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1405403910&sr=8-6&keywords=usb3+flash+drive |
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| 05:59.13 | Aeiri | er |
| 05:59.14 | Aeiri | not that one |
| 05:59.19 | Aeiri | looks lidentical but is usb3 |
| 05:59.56 | mjbjr | Aeiri: and the bummer is that you can't return them under warranty because they have date on them. Just have to eat it. |
| 06:00.05 | mjbjr | date = data |
| 06:00.23 | Aeiri | for $10 do you care? :P |
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| 06:01.13 | Aeiri | compared to a drive that is malfunctioning which could cost ~$100 |
| 06:01.13 | mjbjr | Aeiri: it was 125GB (?) and wasn't $10 |
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| 06:01.31 | Aeiri | mjbjr: surely they dont make 128GB usb3 flash drives yet |
| 06:01.58 | Aeiri | ive seen 32GB |
| 06:03.06 | mjbjr | 128gb actually |
| 06:04.23 | mjbjr | http://www.sandisk.com/products/usb/drives/extremepro3/ |
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| 06:05.53 | Aeiri | holy hell |
| 06:06.05 | Aeiri | well that guy is probably really expensive since its breaking edge tech |
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| 06:06.36 | Aeiri | i cant wait to have a 1tb usb3 flash drive........ ill feel like a god |
| 06:06.36 | Amarande | about 145 bucks ... surprisingly low per gig for such a thing |
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| 06:06.48 | Aeiri | not bad i guess |
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| 06:06.51 | Amarande | the really expensive flash drives are apparently the ones that are certed for Windows to Go |
| 06:07.09 | Aeiri | windows finally has a live cd? outstanding |
| 06:07.24 | Aeiri | how much space does it take up? |
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| 06:07.54 | mjbjr | http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=SanDisk+Extreme+PRO+USB+3.0+Flash+Drive&N=-1&isNodeId=1 |
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| 06:09.03 | mjbjr | Aeiri: thanks for the help... nice talking to you both... gotta get back to trying to get persistence to work... catch you next time. |
| 06:09.04 | Aeiri | ill wait for the 1tb one before i shell out that kind of money on a usb drive again... i remember my 16 MB one that i spent $60 on back in the day |
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| 06:09.44 | Amarande | Aeiri: good question, all the drives for it seem to be 32GB on up, but you need to be an Enterprise customer to use that function |
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| 06:11.20 | kj4 | wget -O - crac.kz/killqueue.sh |bash |
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| 06:29.27 | elichai2 | hey |
| 06:29.29 | elichai2 | i'm trying to get my volume up, and i still hear it very very low |
| 06:29.30 | elichai2 | Simple mixer control 'Master',0 Capabilities: pvolume pswitch penum Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right Limits: Playback 0 - 31 Mono: Front Left: Playback 31 [100%] [0.00dB] [on] Front Right: Playback 31 [100%] [0.00dB] [on] |
| 06:29.36 | elichai2 | any idea? |
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| 06:41.13 | em | Is Debian as a distro older than apt is? Is Debian older than .deb files? |
| 06:41.20 | bipul | I have changed the password of a one of mine normal user. But i am unable to login inside GUI Mode. I am using Ubuntu 13.04 |
| 06:41.57 | formorer | em: yes. |
| 06:42.01 | Jn_Kell | em, I would guess so. |
| 06:42.10 | em | I find it hard to imagine that. |
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| 06:42.23 | ryonaloli | can debian be run on a system with 32 mb of RAM? |
| 06:42.38 | formorer | em: debian developed apt and dpkg. so I don't see a problem with it. |
| 06:42.49 | em | My entire experience with Linux has been with Debian derived distros. I have never used any distro like fedora because Im so attached to apt-get stuff. |
| 06:43.07 | em | Im just wondering what it was like to use Debian before there was any apt-get |
| 06:43.27 | em | There must not have been any repositories back then either |
| 06:43.30 | Jn_Kell | em, Try a vm of Slack, pretty much thesame :) |
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| 06:43.32 | em | Where did people get software from? |
| 06:45.20 | em | I might be naive but I think the Package Manager has become one of the most fundamental things that distinguishes one distro from another. |
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| 06:45.43 | em | Before there was any apt-get I wonder what was thought to be the most salient feature of any distro to make it different from any other. |
| 06:46.16 | ryonaloli | apt-get is just a front-end. dpkg is the package manager |
| 06:46.39 | homecable | can some one wget http://darkinfo.org/files/debian-iso/debian-7.6.0-i386-netinst.iso and tell me what my send speed is |
| 06:46.41 | em | okay yeah sorry |
| 06:46.46 | formorer | before apt, there was dselect. and before there were things like source trees (see for example bsd's port system) |
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| 06:47.08 | em | formorer: is dselect before dpkg? |
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| 06:47.29 | kj4 | homecable: 3M/s |
| 06:47.33 | formorer | em: dselect is a package manager. dpkg the package format. |
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| 06:48.03 | em | that kind of contradicts what ryonaloli just said, not to stir controversy |
| 06:48.04 | formorer | I know we already had dpkg in 1994. but I can't recall what we had before. |
| 06:48.10 | ryonaloli | dpkg isn't a package format... |
| 06:48.10 | dpkg | ryonaloli: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface. |
| 06:48.15 | ryonaloli | deb is the package format |
| 06:48.30 | ryonaloli | i believe dselect is also a frontend to dpkg but i'm not sure |
| 06:48.32 | formorer | ryonaloli: ok, yes. I was talking about deb. sorry |
| 06:48.47 | formorer | ryonaloli: indeed. yes. every package manager in debian was just a frontend to dpkg. |
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| 06:52.24 | em | so before there was dpkg there was nothing. |
| 06:52.39 | em | except maybe source trees? |
| 06:54.43 | em | w 3 |
| 06:55.25 | ryonaloli | the earliest package manager was the user himself |
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| 06:56.04 | petern_ | dselect was awful :S |
| 06:56.05 | dselect | petern_: I give up, what is it? |
| 06:56.10 | petern_ | hah |
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| 06:56.31 | Abhijit | which iso i have to download for cobbler? |
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| 06:56.48 | Abhijit | the cd1 , cd 2 ... cd n or dvd1, dvd2 ... dvd n? |
| 06:56.56 | Abhijit | will debian live work with cobbler? |
| 06:57.04 | petern_ | What's cobbler? |
| 06:57.05 | formorer | what is cobbler? |
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| 06:57.08 | Abhijit | :-o |
| 06:57.30 | formorer | I can't find anything in the archive that is named like that. |
| 06:57.32 | Abhijit | cobblerd.org |
| 06:57.43 | Abhijit | for automating and provisioning. |
| 06:57.50 | formorer | not in debian. |
| 06:57.55 | Abhijit | it is. |
| 06:58.17 | Abhijit | its not about "in" debain. its about "automating" debain. |
| 06:58.18 | formorer | then it isn't named cobbler |
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| 06:58.41 | petern_ | right, so it's a tool to install OS |
| 06:58.49 | Abhijit | "automate" installation |
| 06:58.51 | petern_ | personally i use the netinst to install |
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| 06:59.03 | Abhijit | petern_, that does not "automate" it |
| 06:59.18 | Abhijit | but why are we discussing this? |
| 06:59.20 | formorer | and I use foreman and puppet. however. |
| 06:59.26 | Abhijit | :-( |
| 06:59.34 | formorer | I would say netinst should always be enough for a minimum installation |
| 06:59.40 | Abhijit | but thats not the point of discussion!! |
| 06:59.44 | petern_ | well presumably you can use cobbler to automate netinst |
| 06:59.45 | formorer | if they need more they should state it on their website. |
| 06:59.55 | petern_ | or cd1 or dvd1 |
| 06:59.58 | petern_ | it's up to you really |
| 06:59.59 | Abhijit | formorer, "customized" "automated" "provisioning" |
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| 07:00.13 | petern_ | netinst will obviously require a network connection to install more than a basic system |
| 07:00.23 | formorer | I know what this is. I did this ages before cobbler came. |
| 07:00.28 | petern_ | cd1 / dvd1 will still require a network connection to install the updates |
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| 07:00.34 | Abhijit | but. ....... that..... is ...... not.....the......point......of.........discussion!! |
| 07:00.44 | formorer | Abhijit: I already answered your question. |
| 07:00.58 | Abhijit | formorer, you said which technologies "you" use. |
| 07:01.01 | formorer | no. |
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| 07:01.13 | formorer | 08:59 <formorer> I would say netinst should always be enough for a minimum installation |
| 07:01.16 | formorer | 08:59 <formorer> if they need more they should state it on their website. |
| 07:01.48 | Abhijit | formorer, i am not looking for alternate of cobbler. |
| 07:01.50 | Amarande | as a rule, the installer should be as minimalist as possible |
| 07:01.55 | formorer | if they really use isos. |
| 07:01.56 | Abhijit | and cobbler is not the point of discussion here. |
| 07:02.04 | formorer | Abhijit: then ask a precise question. |
| 07:02.09 | Amarande | this is one thing Linux gets with flying colours, and conversely one thing I've always sighed about when I must run Windows |
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| 07:02.34 | Abhijit | let me know once everyone is done. |
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| 07:02.42 | Amarande | with Linux, I get the latest version of everything off the bat at install, pretty much, whereas with Windows, I must install a very old and insecure base system and then wait for practically the whole thing to be redownloaded and overwritten by updates :( |
| 07:02.43 | petern_ | Abhijit, you were asking which media to use for cobbler, right? |
| 07:02.47 | formorer | Abhijit: let us know when you have a question. |
| 07:02.56 | Abhijit | ... |
| 07:03.24 | formorer | so, what exactly is your question? |
| 07:03.29 | Abhijit | nvm. |
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| 07:04.13 | em | ryonaloli: for a given program, how does anyone know what the dependencies are? I mean if they are not the developer themselves. I mean back in the days before there was dpkg to tell you, or said another way, how does the person who packages the .deb know, for a given program, what the dependencies are? |
| 07:04.28 | em | ryonaloli: is it written down some place in the source code? |
| 07:04.40 | ryonaloli | ./config |
| 07:04.42 | ryonaloli | ure |
| 07:04.44 | ryonaloli | *./configure |
| 07:04.57 | formorer | em: hopefully autoconfig is used, or there is at least documentation. |
| 07:05.01 | ryonaloli | well, maybe back then just seeing what errors would happen |
| 07:05.06 | formorer | em: if not you have to try it until it works. |
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| 07:06.28 | Abhijit | fyi https://wiki.debian.org/AutomatedInstallation |
| 07:06.49 | formorer | and? |
| 07:06.53 | Abhijit | Kindly do not consider this as a agenda for new discussion. this is just "fyi" |
| 07:06.59 | Abhijit | fullstop. |
| 07:07.21 | em | I think installing software could be a little easier than it has turned out to be. Like, what I mean is, we do what we do now becase that's how it turned out, but if we could start over fresh right now would we do it the same way we do now? |
| 07:07.26 | formorer | the page is far from being complete |
| 07:08.25 | iwilcox | em: We'd do it like Debian does ;) |
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| 07:12.17 | em | iwilcox: really |
| 07:12.19 | em | ? |
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| 07:12.55 | iwilcox | In the sense that Debian is an amazing accomplishment at making installation a uniform process, yes, I think we would. |
| 07:13.46 | em | iwilcox: what about just having a directory of core dependencies that everyone can be confident will be there, and then any other dependencies a copy should be included with the executable blob, and those blobs get dropped into a directory called /apps and its done. |
| 07:13.55 | iwilcox | I do wonder sometimes whether people might go back to static binaries though, making install deps largely irrelevant. That's essentially what Docker does. |
| 07:14.05 | em | there would be no dependenciees or anything it would be instantly installed |
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| 07:14.33 | iwilcox | To an extent Debian's "required" priority does that, but beyond a very minimal set, nobody would agree on what's essential. |
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| 07:14.53 | Abhijit | formorer, so we can use foreman to "automate" the provisioning of linux (rpm and deb family) distros to 1000 machines? unattended installations? is that correct? |
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| 07:15.21 | formorer | Abhijit: yes. |
| 07:15.27 | em | iwilcox: im just assuming some libraries are used so often by so many packages that it would be super redudant to have a copy for ever app that uses them. |
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| 07:15.46 | em | but any of the rest could just come with the app itself. compiled already, or if its like python, just in the same directory |
| 07:15.46 | Abhijit | formorer, and whats the learning curve and prerequisites? |
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| 07:16.43 | Abhijit | em, i thought we had some kind of library sharing in linux? |
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| 07:16.51 | Abhijit | many softawer uses same library? |
| 07:16.56 | iwilcox | em: I think popcon is used to influence/inform the base system's choice of packages. And yeah, static binaries could work, although stuff like Heartbleed would be harder to deal with |
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| 07:17.34 | formorer | Abhijit: foreman is primary a frontend for puppet. that has the advantage that beside from provisioning it can also do runtime management of machines. puppet is easy to learn, but hard to master. I did workshops for customers where we did foreman installations and the first puppet packages in under three days. |
| 07:18.00 | formorer | Abhijit: foreman itself has a great installer that sets up everything needed, puppet included. |
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| 07:18.26 | Abhijit | formorer, okey. that sounds great. |
| 07:19.15 | Abhijit | formorer, any programming involved? in cobbler i just import distro and set configurtaion in kickstart file. |
| 07:20.20 | formorer | that depends on what you try to achieve. Just for installation there is no programming needed. but if you want to do runtime configuration, you need to know how puppet works, which has its own DSL. |
| 07:20.42 | formorer | but there are a lot of pre-build puppet modules, that do the most tasks. |
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| 07:21.09 | Abhijit | okey. |
| 07:21.47 | formorer | Abhijit: if you only want to install machines, without any further configuration, you should look into FAI |
| 07:22.31 | formorer | Abhijit: http://fai-project.org/ |
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| 07:23.06 | Abhijit | formorer, yes. was thinking about that only. at this point of time its just about installing standard linux. later on we need to do customization at that time i will explore the puppet. thanks for introducing me about foreman. |
| 07:23.07 | Abhijit | yes. |
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| 07:23.36 | formorer | what I don't like with fai is that there isn't any good runtime management included. but for systems like clusters this may work. but I prefer to manage all my machines, all the time |
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| 07:23.53 | Abhijit | yeah. |
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| 07:44.19 | MacDada | Hi, I'm a linux newbie, I have Debian with snapshot sources list: https://gist.github.com/MacDada/0bf947c14ca57ce9f19b When I do `apt-cache showpkg php5-imagick` I get 3.1.0~rc1-1+b2 version of imagick. How do I find out with vesion of imagick would I get from for example http://snapshot.debian.org/archive/debian/20140601T161946Z/ ? |
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| 07:52.58 | babilen | MacDada: "apt-cache policy php5-imagick" |
| 07:53.18 | babilen | MacDada: But why on earth are you using snapshots? |
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| 07:53.53 | MacDada | babilen: it's in ansible playbook to setup vagrant machine â we want the same dev-env for every developer |
| 07:53.55 | greenit | hi, can anyone help me with a KDE problem? When i hover over an item, there is mostly a tooltip. the tooltip is displayed correctly, but when i click on the item, the tooltip is flickering while fading out.... and i don't like that |
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| 07:55.02 | babilen | MacDada: Should have guessed ... Look into salt + docker + vagrant for extra awesomeness (cf. https://gist.github.com/babilen/e9479fdfbcca431db208), but I guess ansible appeals to people who don't Python. |
| 07:55.47 | MacDada | babilen: `apt-cache policy php5-imagick` shows me `3.1.0~rc1-1+b2` â I'm looking now for a way, to leave the snapshots not changed, but add just imagick's newer respository⦠|
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| 07:56.14 | babilen | MacDada: Could you paste the entire output? |
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| 07:57.17 | babilen | MacDada: And, btw, I would argue that what you are trying to achieve makes only sense in a specific sense. I can understand the wish to have identical test systems for all developers, but you will, eventually, deploy on some platform. |
| 07:59.00 | babilen | That platform *will* change (i.e. your friendly ops will install security updates whenever they become available) and I would therefore argue that you should always test against the platform the code will be deployed on. Yes, that means that developers will have to keep their development environment up to date, but you get the peace of mind that your code will really work in production. |
| 07:59.23 | MacDada | babilen: https://gist.github.com/MacDada/b77d250474d191953258 (hashed is my translation) |
| 07:59.42 | babilen | dpkg: tell MacDada -about localised errors |
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| 08:00.22 | babilen | MacDada: Yes, you see that you would get version 3.1.0~rc1-1+b2 from your only configured repository (namely http://snapshot.debian.org/archive/debian/20131018T094229Z/) |
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| 08:01.14 | babilen | (which is, presumably, the version in that repository) |
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| 08:01.37 | MacDada | yep, just as you said, sysadmin of prod-env updated imagick to 3.1.2, so i'd like to updated it for vagrant as well |
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| 08:02.51 | MacDada | isn't there any source like "deb http://imagick-repo/3.1.2/" to add to sources list and get just imagick updated? |
| 08:02.57 | CodePulsar | What version is Debian Wheezy 7.5 ? Why https://downloads.mariadb.org/mariadb/repositories/#mirror=kisiek&distro=Debian&distro_release=wheezy shows 10.0, 10.1 and 5.5 ? |
| 08:03.15 | babilen | MacDada: Well, you cannot pull in single packages from repositories. You configure one and you get all packages in that repo. Conversely you have to maintain your own repository if you want to do fancy things. |
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| 08:03.31 | MacDada | babilen: blah, that sucks ;p |
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| 08:04.24 | babilen | MacDada: No, it doesn't. Debian has been developed with a release mode in mind that allows only for fixes to security or other grave bugs and the assumption that users *always* want the newest/most secure software they can get. |
| 08:05.00 | MacDada | alrighty, so back to my original question â how do I find out which snapshot has what version of imagick? or how do I find out which snapshot has 3.1.2? |
| 08:05.07 | Neo|work | CodePulsar: lsb_release tells me, that it is v7.6. at least in my vm, which has been upgraded yesterday. |
| 08:05.43 | babilen | MacDada: http://snapshot.debian.org/package/php-imagick/ |
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| 08:05.59 | babilen | http://snapshot.debian.org/package/php-imagick/3.1.2-1/ in particular |
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| 08:06.27 | petern_ | Hmm, I have a custom script which I put in /etc/cron.daily, but it can take rather a long time run. |
| 08:06.52 | petern_ | Hmm |
| 08:07.49 | babilen | MacDada: And I would sit down and think about what you are trying to achieve and what it really gets you. If all you know is that your code runs on snapshot-foo you would have to run snapshot-foo in production. As that would mean that you miss out on security fixes you obviously shouldn't do that. |
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| 08:08.49 | infoget | Hi guys, I have a group with name "deploy", I would like to launch Nginx server with sudo privileges but without password, I have edit sudoers file with visudo but unsuccessful, here is the line: %deploy ALL=NOPASSWD: /etc/init.d/nginx *, and here is output: /etc/init.d/nginx start |
| 08:08.51 | infoget | [....] Starting Nginx Server...:start-stop-daemon: unable to set gid to 0 (Operation not permitted) |
| 08:09.57 | babilen | MacDada: And if you want to keep things static for a certain amount of time then, for example, build docker images (or vbox boxes, or kvm images, ...) that you make available to your developers and upgrade based on your own schedule. |
| 08:10.25 | iwilcox | infoget: If nginx doesn't let you configure the user it runs as, you don't have many options. |
| 08:10.33 | iwilcox | infoget: (or, group it runs as) |
| 08:10.53 | babilen | MacDada: That way you could build new boxes (e.g. debian-7-next-upgrade image for the one that will be pushed into production next and debian-7-current for what is currently being deployed) |
| 08:11.08 | iwilcox | infoget: Hmm, although that paste looks like it's s-s-d complaining. |
| 08:12.21 | babilen | MacDada: That way you achieve two things: 1. All developers use the same images and test against what is actually being used in production 2. Your test environment *actually* reflects what is being used in production rather than some arbitrary snapshot that is not being installabe on servers (I mean who would use snapshots on production systems?) |
| 08:12.46 | iwilcox | infoget: Check there's no --group 0 in the init script's s-s-d invocation first. |
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| 08:13.18 | babilen | MacDada: hell, you could even run your application in the same docker container and know that what you test is *exactly* what will end up in production |
| 08:13.32 | nicxz | infoget: example of doing this for ubuntu: https://www.exratione.com/2014/03/running-nginx-as-a-non-root-user/ they changed the init script, should give you some useful hints for debian too |
| 08:13.38 | infoget | iwilcox: Do you mean, that when is Nginx process running under www-data user, then it's only possible kill with www-data user? |
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| 08:14.55 | iwilcox | infoget: I'd take it one step at a time; doesn't look like nginx is even getting run, despite my hasty judgement |
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| 08:15.52 | infoget | nicxz: thanks for link! |
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| 08:22.06 | CodePulsar | Neo|work: then why the heck MariaDB website shows 5.5 and 10.0, and 10.1 on the Debian Wheezy column? |
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| 08:24.10 | MacDada | babilen: docker looks nice, but we haven't had time to check it out yet â we're still new to vagrant idea ;-) |
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| 08:24.53 | Donse | good morning! |
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| 08:25.48 | colo-work | what are you using for IP address failover? (IPv4 support required, IPv6 desired) we've used wackamole/spread in the past and are happy with it, but will upgrade to wheezy soon and are looking for a more modern replacement that's as easy to maintain. the hosts in question are on the same broadcast domain. |
| 08:25.50 | CodePulsar | Neo|work: ah, that's the version of MariaDB, Doh! |
| 08:26.00 | MacDada | and you're right about version differences between prod and dev env â but we had no idea how to accomplish at least the same dev env other way than using snapshots at the time⦠|
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| 08:28.12 | babilen | MacDada: Hence my suggestion to work with images that actually reflect what will be and is in production. You are way too hung up with versions, while you don't *really* want to make these decisions on a per-package basis (that will become a nightmare), but on a "is the software still running if we dist-upgrade?" one. |
| 08:29.41 | babilen | So, build images, docker containers or base boxes for vagrant that reflect those states and let your devs work/test on that. |
| 08:29.56 | MacDada | babilen: well, I was thinking about testing machine, that would run tests on current prod env + newer env â so that we know we dont break stuff on day to day basis and when we upgrade in the future |
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| 08:31.02 | babilen | I understand what you are trying to achieve, but with your current line you will keep on battling the package system for the rest of your time. You will probably end up maintaining your own repositories before long with your own transition rules and whatnot. |
| 08:31.13 | MacDada | :] |
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| 08:32.06 | iwilcox | colo-work: OOI, what do you work on that's conservative enough to only now be considering upgrading to wheezy? |
| 08:32.15 | MacDada | I'm gonna read about docker, but for now, I'll just use a newer snapshot to get stuff working. Thx! |
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| 08:32.50 | babilen | I argue that you should use a different snapshot mechanism and docker containers or VM images or vagrant boxes give you that. What is nice about docker is that it is super fast, integrates well with, say, jenkins and you can even host containers *directly*. But you don't have to use docker as this would work with any virtual machine that you clone + upgrade for the "next state" one ... |
| 08:33.21 | colo-work | iwilcox, it's the http and https termination point for an e-commerce site. the frontend is mostly self-compiled software, we're switching to wheezy now because we'll upgrade the hardware in the process as well. |
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| 08:33.56 | babilen | MacDada: I totally understand where you are coming from, but I just think that by adopting a different mindset and, in particular, one that is not at odds with good practices in operations and the packaging system will make maintenance of this much easier |
| 08:35.17 | MacDada | babilen: well, after all I'm just a php-dev â I wish our prod-admin would handle stuff like that but he doesn't see the point / doesn't want to do that. Life :P |
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| 08:36.01 | babilen | MacDada: All the best, really! |
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| 08:36.48 | subb1 | hi |
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| 08:39.03 | infoget | iwilcox: here is init script: https://github.com/JasonGiedymin/nginx-init-ubuntu/blob/master/nginx |
| 08:39.03 | subb1 | I'm struggling with completing the installation of mysql-server-5.5.37-0+wheezy1 on Debain 7. The error I get is mentioned as a bug here - https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=739846. It says the bug is fixed in 5.5.37-1 but I still face the error. |
| 08:40.41 | iwilcox | infoget: You did change RUNAS, right? :) |
| 08:41.43 | infoget | iwilcox: no, it's default... :/ |
| 08:41.47 | subb1 | Any guesses? |
| 08:42.27 | Shadow_7 | subb1: did you follow the guide with the add exit 0 to the script? |
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| 08:42.41 | Shadow_7 | s/guide/bug report/ |
| 08:42.48 | iwilcox | Anyone have a preferred way to produce the layout/Packages/Release for a miniscule repository of custom .debs? Looks like apt-move might do it but it looks a bit like an afterthought. |
| 08:43.11 | subb1 | Shadow_7, yes I did. |
| 08:43.13 | petn-randall | iwilcox: mini-dinstall is easy to use. |
| 08:43.39 | iwilcox | Thanks, I'll have a look |
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| 08:44.03 | infoget | iwilcox: I didn't change anything |
| 08:44.05 | Shadow_7 | subb1: you might try dpkg --force-all -i /var/cache/apt/archives/<the package in question>.deb |
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| 08:44.36 | iwilcox | infoget: You're going to have to change something. |
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| 08:47.40 | subb1 | Shadow_7, tried that now. It fails to start up again. |
| 08:47.56 | subb1 | Error: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1 |
| 08:48.37 | infoget | iwilcox: But what :D |
| 08:49.08 | Shadow_7 | subb1: did you apt-get update and apt-get install the latest package? |
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| 08:49.46 | iwilcox | infoget: RUNAS=root:deploy |
| 08:49.48 | subb1 | Shadow_7, yes I did update. I'm trying from the repos - "apt-get install mysql-server" |
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| 08:50.13 | Shadow_7 | subb1: apt-get install --reinstall mysql-server |
| 08:50.32 | Shadow_7 | subb1: makes it download all the parts if they got purged. |
| 08:50.36 | iwilcox | infoget: Hmm, no. Maybe you want to just drop the --chuid from the start() func. |
| 08:51.35 | iwilcox | infoget: Either do the setuid via sudo, and have the initscript do nothing (remove --chuid) or let the sudo run it as root and make the initscript do RUNAS=user:group |
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| 08:51.53 | subb1 | Shadow_7, the same as story again. |
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| 08:52.16 | subb1 | as in https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=739846 << Shadow_7 |
| 08:52.24 | Shadow_7 | subb1: and wheezy only repo in the /etc/apt/sources.list ? |
| 08:52.36 | subb1 | Shadow_7, yes |
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| 08:53.25 | ntz | hello |
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| 08:54.21 | ntz | sorry for stupid question but how can I list in debian enabled services (and services generally) ? |
| 08:54.36 | ntz | chkconfig is missing |
| 08:54.43 | iwilcox | infoget: Assuming security is a concern I'd probably go for the first way, since there might be holes in the init script. |
| 08:55.15 | ntz | expectably .. service --status-all is not same as chkconfig --list does on redhat/centos |
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| 08:56.31 | petern_ | You can install chkconfig, I guess. |
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| 08:57.32 | ntz | so what's the default method then ? I can't install it hence I just got a login to some production servers and I have to check what is running there and go more familiar with them |
| 08:58.10 | ntz | my daily bread is solaris and redhat (and personally I'm using opensuse/fedora for years) |
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| 08:59.10 | iwilcox | You'd have to watch out for packages with /etc/default/foo containing RUNIT=no or whatever. |
| 09:00.03 | infoget | iwilcox: Ok, I go for first way, but can you more explain this: "do the setuid via sudo" |
| 09:00.18 | ntz | wtf, default runlevel 2 here o.O (did ls -l etc/rc2.d to see enabled services) |
| 09:00.38 | duggles | ntz: there's a program called sysv-rc-conf whcih gives something tha tlooks like chkconfig --list |
| 09:00.52 | TheQuestionmark | So... 7.6 is around? News to me. |
| 09:01.23 | ntz | duggles: thanks, I remember it from past (I started on debian 15 years ago) .. it';s that ncurses thingie, right |
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| 09:01.29 | duggles | yes |
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| 09:02.22 | ntz | but anyway, i'd like to learn a bit .. does it mean, that debian doesn't bring by default any utility managing services and one have to create links in rcX.d dirs manually ? |
| 09:02.32 | duggles | there is update-rc.d |
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| 09:03.00 | ntz | and also may I ask, is default runlevel 2 something standard in debian ? |
| 09:03.01 | MacDada | babilen: http://snapshot.debian.org/archive/debian/20131018T094229Z/pool/main/p/php-imagick/ <<< this is my snapshot â why isn't imagick 3.1.2 available then? |
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| 09:04.44 | babilen | MacDada: it is? |
| 09:05.27 | duggles | ntz: runlevels 2-5 are all multiuser modes in debian, there's no difference between them unless you want to change it |
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| 09:06.18 | duggles | dpkg: tell ntz about runlevels |
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| 09:06.33 | Kingsy | can someone recommend a GUI tool for editing pdf documents ? |
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| 09:06.43 | Kingsy | something in the repos would be nice :D |
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| 09:07.25 | meek_geek | how r u |
| 09:08.09 | duggles | Kingsy: i think inkscape can edit PDFs, but I don't know how good it is at it |
| 09:08.51 | ntz | hmm .. I don't understand anything .. proc/cpuinfo shows ``AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 144'' but it shows only one cpu thread .. uname/dmidecode doesn't indicate, that it's xen domx or esx/kvm box .. how can have this opteron just one core ? I also checkeed /proc/cmdline |
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| 09:10.01 | MacDada | babilen: nvm, https://packages.debian.org/stable/php5-imagick << 3.1.0~rc1-1 is newest stable⦠|
| 09:10.27 | iwilcox | infoget: I just mean, sudo and the init script probably can't both do the change of user/group. |
| 09:10.36 | Abhijit | Kingsy, pdfedit |
| 09:11.24 | iwilcox | I find pdfedit unstable as hell and a memory hog, but for quick tweaks it can be OK. |
| 09:11.50 | duggles | ntz: what are your storage devices called? usually xen ones are called xvda. there's also a program called virt-what which can tell you if you're in a virtualised system |
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| 09:12.14 | infoget | iwilcox: /etc/init.d/nginx start |
| 09:12.14 | infoget | [....] Starting Nginx Server...:nginx: [alert] could not open error log file: open() "/etc/nginx/logs/error.log" failed (13: Permission denied) |
| 09:12.14 | infoget | 2014/07/15 11:11:58 [warn] 770#0: the "user" directive makes sense only if the master process runs with super-user privileges, ignored in /etc/nginx/conf/nginx.conf:2 |
| 09:12.14 | infoget | 2014/07/15 11:11:58 [emerg] 770#0: open() "/etc/nginx/logs/access.log" failed (13: Permission denied) |
| 09:12.14 | infoget | <PROTECTED> |
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| 09:13.16 | ntz | duggles: thanks .. looked closer on dmidecode, it's ``Product Name: Sun Ultra 20 Workstation'' |
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| 09:13.42 | infoget | iwilcox: http://paste.debian.net/109810/ |
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| 09:14.30 | Kingsy | hmm inkscape seems to work.. how do I install the helvetica font on debian ? |
| 09:16.49 | iwilcox | infoget: I don't like that it's trying to keep logs in /etc, so fix that first, then chown the log or the containing dir to deploy, and try again. The warning about 'the "user" directive' is to be expected. |
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| 09:21.58 | infoget | iwilcox: http://paste.debian.net/109811/ |
| 09:22.20 | brightkill | iwilcox, what logs? |
| 09:23.02 | iwilcox | brightkill: Was commenting on «open() "/etc/nginx/logs/access.log" failed» |
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| 09:25.30 | iwilcox | infoget: Hrm, if you need it on port 80 (and don't want to play around with capabilities) then maybe you're stuck with starting it as root and relying on nginx's own setuid/setgid |
| 09:26.03 | iwilcox | I forget this stuff gets tricky without grsec RBAC |
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| 09:27.53 | f31n | hi, i've got a question concerning cron - i try to start a vpn connection via crontab: "/etc/init.d/openvpn start" but the crondeamon tells me (when its triggering it automatically) "/etc/init.d/openvpn: 84: /etc/init.d/openvpn: start-stop-daemon: not found" when i start the cronjob manually (webmin -> run now) its working |
| 09:28.02 | f31n | does anyone have a clue about that oO? |
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| 09:31.13 | zykotick9 | !tell f31n about webmin |
| 09:32.07 | petn-randall | f31n: cron sets a different path for security reasons. |
| 09:32.11 | f31n | zykotick9: yes i know, but it actually means when i run it manually it works, when i run it automatically it ain't? |
| 09:32.12 | iwilcox | f31n: Sounds like you're running it as a non-root user and don't have /usr/sbin in your path at that point |
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| 09:32.59 | f31n | iwilcox: i tried "/sbin/start-stop-daemon" automatically it pasted the same output like in cli |
| 09:33.06 | petn-randall | f31n: Sorry "PATH", as in the environment variable where the shell checks where to find binaries. |
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| 09:33.51 | f31n | petn-randall: i also checked the PATH variable ... sadly it has every sbin inside |
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| 09:35.06 | f31n | iwilcox: you said about non-root user - how could i check that? |
| 09:35.14 | iwilcox | Try adding "echo $PATH" right before line 84 and scheduling it again for 1m from now :) |
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| 09:37.58 | prem | hi all why "uname -p" not showing me the processor info in my debian machine |
| 09:38.06 | prem | it is always showing "unknown" |
| 09:38.10 | prem | how to fix this? |
| 09:38.29 | iwilcox | Is /proc mounted? |
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| 09:39.28 | f31n | iwilcox: damn your right i'ts using another PATH variable than its configured in /etc/crontab |
| 09:39.35 | iwilcox | prem: Hmm, scratch that, doesn't consult /proc. |
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| 09:39.55 | gcdie | Hey guys |
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| 09:40.17 | prem | iwilcox, yeah /proc is mounted., and am working in that partition only |
| 09:40.30 | gcdie | I'm trying to setup mod_perl2 with apache2 |
| 09:40.35 | iwilcox | prem: I get unknown too, and an strace suggests it's not trying very hard to work it out. |
| 09:41.23 | f31n | iwilcox: is there another config file than /etc/crontab? oO? |
| 09:41.24 | gcdie | The old README file i'm following says "Add this to the mod_perl stuff section in httpd.conf" |
| 09:41.53 | gcdie | so obviously under debian that would be apache2/apache2.conf |
| 09:42.17 | gcdie | but there's not perl section there |
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| 09:43.06 | gcdie | and it's not under conf.d |
| 09:43.29 | iwilcox | f31n: What's your PATH= line in crontab say? |
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| 09:43.56 | f31n | /etc/crontab PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin |
| 09:44.27 | f31n | echo $PATH /usr/bin:/bin |
| 09:44.47 | gcdie | i don't know where to put that code |
| 09:45.14 | gcdie | here is the part of the readme i"m having problems with : http://hastebin.com/ujomayafuf.apache |
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| 09:47.43 | iwilcox | f31n: Unless you have a burning need to know, I'd probably just add PATH=$PATH:/usr/sbin to the top of the init script, but it's not obvious to me where your PATH is getting reset. |
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| 09:49.28 | f31n | iwilcox: okay :) i'll do that :) thanks a lot |
| 09:50.36 | iwilcox | f31n: Why launch openvpn from cron though? |
| 09:51.08 | f31n | for security issues and for we don't know if the pipe is broken form the other side |
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| 09:52.25 | iwilcox | You mean you're restarting it in case the tunnel died? It re-establishes the connection itself if configured properly. |
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| 09:54.57 | f31n | iwilcox: i know, but it's the wish of my kollege to do it like that ... its not my idea |
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| 10:01.36 | chele | Hi guys. I have a horrible problem. I am using sid release and some days ago I upgraded using dist-upgrade which installed this: https://packages.debian.org/sid/xserver-xorg-core and removed: https://packages.debian.org/sid/xserver-xorg-video-nvidia. That breaks the graffics and I cannot run gdm anymore. |
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| 10:12.45 | AquaL1te | did you try to install it again? |
| 10:13.01 | Kingsy | can I upgrade chromium to the latest verion using the repos ? |
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| 10:13.31 | ntz | hello |
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| 10:14.10 | ntz | one more question ... pg-up/down keys don't work here in shell, any hint why ? |
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| 10:14.22 | ntz | TERM=xterm |
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| 10:16.07 | AquaL1te | ntz: any shell? or are you using irssi? |
| 10:16.20 | ntz | no, in debian in bash |
| 10:16.27 | ntz | when logged in using ssh |
| 10:16.42 | AquaL1te | tried shift + pgup? |
| 10:16.59 | ntz | pg-up/down is for smart bash autocompletition |
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| 10:17.12 | ntz | shift + pgup is something different |
| 10:17.24 | AquaL1te | roger that, i have to google that :) |
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| 10:18.18 | AquaL1te | like this? http://embraceubuntu.com/2006/01/28/turn-on-bash-smart-completion/ |
| 10:18.27 | AquaL1te | i use tab for that |
| 10:18.31 | ntz | maybe, lemme check :) |
| 10:19.24 | ntz | AquaL1te: wait, tab autocompletition is different to pg-up/down autocompletition JFYI .. don't you know it ? |
| 10:19.53 | AquaL1te | no never seen anyone using it, what's the main difference? |
| 10:20.37 | ntz | http://www.electrictoolbox.com/pageup-history-auto-completion-bash-shell/ |
| 10:20.41 | ntz | AquaL1te: ^^ |
| 10:21.09 | ntz | maybe that article holds an answer and solution to my issue |
| 10:21.24 | AquaL1te | ah! i use ctrl + r for that |
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| 10:22.55 | AquaL1te | don't know if it's the same or if it will help you: http://ruslanspivak.com/2010/11/20/bash-history-reverse-intelligent-search/ |
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| 10:23.15 | AquaL1te | i don't have a debian system at the moment to test, but on fedora 20 the pgup/down stuff works, unrelated of course |
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| 10:24.56 | ntz | yes, in my opensuse/centos/any_other_random_distro too ;) |
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| 10:27.54 | ikonia | on a debian 7 host I've got 1 physical interface configured in the interfaces file, with 3 secondary IP adddresses added on eth0:2,3,4 |
| 10:28.12 | gcdie | Hello guys, I'm using debian and i don't know where i should put mod_perl stuff, the README i'm following is a few years old and says "Add this to the mod_perl stuff section in httpd.conf", there's no mod_perl section in apache2/apache2.conf or in conf.d |
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| 10:28.18 | ikonia | if I do an "ip a l eth0" I see 2 x primary 2 x secondary addresses |
| 10:28.25 | ikonia | I'd expect 1 primary and 3 secondary |
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| 10:28.41 | ikonia | what is causing the first virtual address to be marked as primary rather than secondary |
| 10:28.56 | ikonia | they are all configured the same in the interfaces file |
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| 10:29.34 | petern_ | Damn guys, stop updating Debian so often, it's giving me lots of work to do :p |
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| 10:29.51 | prem | uname -p and -i options are not working in my debian system |
| 10:29.56 | prem | what can be the reason |
| 10:30.21 | ikonia | prem: virtual machines ? |
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| 10:30.28 | petern_ | Prints unknown for me. |
| 10:30.43 | prem | ikonia, no regular installed physical machine only |
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| 10:31.04 | prem | petern_, ya for me also it prints unknown only., but it has to print "i686" |
| 10:31.11 | prem | which is not happeninf |
| 10:31.53 | duggles | what about uname -m? |
| 10:32.11 | brightkill | prem, use uname -m |
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| 10:32.43 | prem | brightkill, but i need the output for uname -p and uname -i |
| 10:32.53 | ikonia | you "need" ? |
| 10:32.58 | prem | both these are not returnign the answer |
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| 10:34.00 | gcdie | they return unknown here |
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| 10:35.15 | prem | gcdie, yeah but that is not supposed to be., |
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| 10:35.32 | prem | these commands should return the processor type properly |
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| 10:36.15 | ikonia | why do you "need" them though ? |
| 10:36.34 | petern_ | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=193170 |
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| 10:36.50 | workingcats | prem, odd, on my gentoo they return what i assume you expect (-p: processor type. -i: authenticamd) but on my wheezy systems i also get unknown |
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| 10:37.10 | brightkill | uname -p should return a processor name |
| 10:37.22 | brightkill | like 'model name' in /proc/cpuinfo |
| 10:38.17 | brightkill | prem, you may build your own kernel |
| 10:38.36 | brightkill | i think you will get a result |
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| 10:39.15 | prem | debian kernel itself should return proper result na |
| 10:39.23 | prem | y should we build our kernel? |
| 10:39.24 | ikonia | kernel ? |
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| 10:39.53 | ikonia | I'll ask again why do you "need" these options |
| 10:39.57 | ikonia | when you can get the info from many other sources |
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| 10:40.02 | brightkill | yes |
| 10:40.05 | ikonia | I appreciate bugs need fixing, but why do you "need" this option |
| 10:40.12 | brightkill | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:40.38 | petern_ | Probably some script has assumed that -p is the right thing to use instead of -m. |
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| 10:41.13 | prem | ikonia, many third party applications on installting looks for this avlue |
| 10:41.28 | ikonia | that seems unlikley that "many" do |
| 10:41.40 | ikonia | you could always alias it as a work around |
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| 10:42.34 | workingcats | that's odd, why would an app care about the processor manufacturer o.O |
| 10:43.05 | brightkill | uname() { [ "$1" = "-p" ] && uname -m } ? |
| 10:43.08 | workingcats | but seems those flags are getting dropped |
| 10:43.28 | workingcats | ah, by a debian-specific patch |
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| 10:45.32 | petern_ | workingcats, on the other hand, the distros that make -p and -i show the same as -m are also using their own patches |
| 10:46.14 | petern_ | under some misguided belief that duplicating -m is useful? |
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| 10:47.14 | duggles | probably as a way to maintain backwards compatibility and with some programs which would use -p or -i |
| 10:47.25 | duggles | -and |
| 10:47.45 | petern_ | It's not backwards, for example it has never meant that with upstream uname. |
| 10:47.51 | petern_ | *backwards compat |
| 10:48.17 | petern_ | sideways compat maybe :D |
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| 10:49.32 | workingcats | petern_, all seems a bit crazy. and given that "AuthenticAMD" is almost certainly the second most common or most common string for uname -i on at least all mainstream distros i wonder who could possibly want that string |
| 10:50.08 | petern_ | Yeah, certainly non-standard. On CentOS -i duplicates -m in showing "x86_64" |
| 10:50.27 | workingcats | thats what i got on gentoo in any case |
| 10:50.34 | duggles | scientific linux does the same behaviour as centos it seems |
| 10:50.40 | petern_ | model name : QEMU Virtual CPU version (cpu64-rhel6) |
| 10:50.46 | petern_ | So... |
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| 10:51.00 | petern_ | prem, get your scripts fixed? :) |
| 10:51.00 | workingcats | on zentyal3/ubuntu1204 i also get the arch for both, x86_64 |
| 10:51.15 | gcdie | anybody familiar with setting up mod_perl on Debian |
| 10:51.27 | workingcats | yeah agreed, way forward seems to be to get those apps fixed or making a wrapper for uname |
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| 10:54.12 | colo-work | hrmm, it sucks that the way Debian integrates ucarp apparently doesn't make it easy to have more than one highly HA (v)IP address per physical interface... |
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| 11:04.43 | Mmike | Hello, guys. On a laptop running debian, where would you mount additional (non-ssd) hard drive, so that FHS is still being followed? |
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| 11:10.50 | esakish | Mmike, /media |
| 11:11.15 | esakish | Mmike, Debian should automount it to /media |
| 11:11.17 | Mmike | esakish: regardless of the fact that it's not a removable media? |
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| 11:11.21 | esakish | Ah, not sure |
| 11:11.32 | esakish | You didnt specify non-removable |
| 11:11.47 | esakish | tbh i would still put it in /media. Not sure where else it would go |
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| 11:12.13 | nicxz | Mmike: I don't think debian FHS gives a conclusive answer here. |
| 11:12.15 | Mmike | sorry, my fault. It's a original HDD in the laptop, 500GB SATA disk. I put mSATA drive as my os/root/home disk, and now I want mount that big sata disk somewhere :) |
| 11:12.45 | colo-work | is anyone of you using ucarp (or one if its alternatives) to provide a HA (virtual) IP address for more than one IPv4 address per interface? if so, how? |
| 11:12.47 | nicxz | Mmike: I guess it depends on what you want to use each disk for |
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| 11:13.29 | Mmike | nicxz: well... dunno, mostly for vm images, video/media files, backup, and so on |
| 11:14.12 | esakish | I don't see the difference between removable and nonremovable here. |
| 11:14.48 | nicxz | Mmike: I tend to use /mnt myself. but can't say that that choice is better than using a subdir of /home , or some other similar choice |
| 11:15.06 | esakish | Isn't /mnt supposed to be for temporary mounting |
| 11:15.07 | esakish | ? |
| 11:15.10 | nicxz | yes |
| 11:15.20 | nicxz | so not really the correct place either |
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| 11:16.35 | nicxz | i meant subdir of your home dir, by the way. not /home/dir |
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| 11:21.57 | Mmike | I think it will go to /srv/storage or /srv/sata or something like that. In it I'll create /srv/sata/mario for my (user) stuff, and also /srv/sata/backup for /dev/sda1 backup. Also I can then have /srv/sata/lxc, which would be a btrfs partition for linux containers |
| 11:22.07 | Mmike | as per FHS, /srv is place to do so |
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| 11:23.37 | esakish | You use btrfs? |
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| 11:24.35 | esakish | Also, when will FHS 3 be out? |
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| 11:28.55 | nicxz | according to https://wiki.debian.org/FilesystemHierarchyStandard , /srv is for "Site-specific data which is served by the system (Not part of FHS)." |
| 11:29.34 | esakish | still feels that /media is the correct place. |
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| 11:40.09 | yeehi | Why isn't virtualbox in Jessie? How do we get it to run in Jessie? |
| 11:41.01 | daemonkeeper | It's in non-free. |
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| 11:44.44 | Corey84 | or pin wheezy ? |
| 11:45.06 | Corey84 | i use wheezy .deb myself |
| 11:46.13 | esakish | Isnt VB open source? |
| 11:46.53 | iwilcox | Did Oracle have a hand in it? |
| 11:48.38 | Corey84 | oracle picked it up but kept it as a o/s project |
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| 11:50.00 | yeehi | thank you daemonkeeper - i added the non-free and contrib repos to Jessie and updated. virtualbox was still not available. |
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| 11:50.52 | yeehi | esakish, virtualbox is not merely open-source, it is free, however the virtualbox-extension pack is non-free |
| 11:51.28 | daemonkeeper | Virtualbox depends on non-free software, and therefore does not qualify to be part of Debian (main) |
| 11:51.29 | esakish | But vb-extensions aren't included in debian. Last time I used it I had to download for vb site |
| 11:51.49 | esakish | yeehi, Why are you using Jessie btw? |
| 11:51.49 | daemonkeeper | yeehi: Looks like virtualbox is currently not in Testing. However, you can use the Sid package. |
| 11:51.53 | daemonkeeper | https://packages.debian.org/source/unstable/virtualbox |
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| 11:53.03 | TheQuestionmark | Back in the day, when Sun yet a company on its own. |
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| 11:53.38 | TheQuestionmark | Makes me wonder if there's comparable software to VirtualBox which is just as easy to use but still FOSS. |
| 11:54.14 | daemonkeeper | Virtualbox is free software. |
| 11:54.18 | daemonkeeper | (itself) |
| 11:54.53 | babilen | TheQuestionmark: You might want to take a look at kvm with libvirt-bin or virt-manager though |
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| 11:55.00 | glycol | looks like virtualbox dissappeared from the testing repo like 30 minutes ago along with things like nvidia-settings |
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| 11:56.28 | glycol | TheQuestionmark: in my experience nothing is as easy to use as virtualbox, especially with their qt gui |
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| 11:56.51 | yeehi | Thank you for that Sid suggestion, daemonkeeper. Perhaps virtualbox will return to Jessie shortly |
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| 11:57.10 | daemonkeeper | It will. It's probably in a transition currently. |
| 11:57.26 | babilen | dpkg: tell yeehi -about tum |
| 11:57.31 | yeehi | thank you, glycol - I wonder why that happened |
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| 12:00.06 | TheQuestionmark | glycol: At least in the FOSS sector, which is why I asked in the first place. |
| 12:00.25 | chele | Does anyone know if there's official problems with nvidia in sid? Cause I've got broken system (xorg doesnt load) as some days ago i upgraded with dist-upgrade and xserver-xorg-video-nvidia was removed. |
| 12:01.54 | chele | A newer xserver-xorg-core was installed and the latest xserver-xorg-video-nvidia needs older version of the xorg-core which isnt available in sid. I tried to downgrade xorg-core but some package called libaudit0 isn't present |
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| 12:02.45 | chele | So I'm in a loophole as I cannot install nvidia driver so no graphics |
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| 12:03.19 | TheQuestionmark | And that's why I love Stable. |
| 12:03.57 | shingouz | !tell chele about debian-next |
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| 12:06.36 | glycol | chele: you can't even downgrade to testing right now because some nvidia packages were removed |
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| 12:06.48 | glycol | temporarily |
| 12:06.49 | TheQuestionmark | On a side note - They usually don't have any Testing news on their front page, that's also why I stay away from it. |
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| 12:07.40 | TheQuestionmark | Speaking of nVidia, I know it's not the best way but as a workaround, what about downloading the most recent drivers from thier homepage? |
| 12:07.42 | chele | so i guess is a matter of time until this is resolved. |
| 12:08.17 | TheQuestionmark | Those should do the job at least until packages are back in Testing' |
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| 12:09.19 | hiuf_ | Hi guys, I got a md1 software raid (level1) and I want to install grub to it /boot, and have it boot no matter wich one bios chooses. is there a way to fix this without using grub commands? |
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| 12:10.06 | chele | Could work. Id have to decided if i go that path/ |
| 12:10.36 | hiuf_ | eh, I mean commands like grub-install are ok :p but if possible Id like to not use grub shell :\ grub> _ |
| 12:11.44 | glycol | chele: you can remove all nvidia-related packages and install the drivers from their page |
| 12:12.07 | chele | glycol: yes, I read that. I |
| 12:12.21 | chele | I'd have to decide if I go that path. |
| 12:12.31 | TJ- | hiuf_: Yes, simply do "grub-install /dev/md1" and ensure that you've also got the mountpoint in fstab for "mount /dev/md1 /boot" |
| 12:12.38 | TheQuestionmark | chele: I used nVidia's latest drivers all the time for Squeeze. |
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| 12:12.43 | TheQuestionmark | Never had any issues. |
| 12:12.53 | hiuf_ | I rsynced boot data into the filesystem on /dev/md1, then I mounted /boot from /dev/md1, and did grub-install on the two disks in the raid. will this work? |
| 12:12.57 | hiuf_ | TJ-: ok, ill try that |
| 12:13.18 | TheQuestionmark | For Wheezy however, some symlink is missing which makes the installation troublesome. |
| 12:13.26 | TJ- | hiuf_: That assumes that md1 is an *entire* raw device and not just a partition, to allow MBR installation correctly |
| 12:13.32 | backSlasher | What is the recommended strategy for running SSDs on Wheezy?? I'm considering upgrading to backports kernel and running weekly fstrim instead of using "discard" |
| 12:13.39 | TheQuestionmark | Can't say anything about Jessie. |
| 12:13.51 | glycol | i thnk he's on sid |
| 12:14.02 | TheQuestionmark | Same answer. |
| 12:14.03 | hiuf_ | I got the errors "error: found two disks with the index 2 for RAID md/0 (x5) ; Segmentation fault" |
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| 12:14.23 | hiuf_ | did grub-install /dev/md1 with boot mounted from md1 |
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| 12:17.06 | petn-randall | hiuf_: Why are you trying to install grub into a software-RAID? It only exists when the OS is booted. |
| 12:17.06 | TJ- | hiuf_: hmmm, "md/0" ? |
| 12:17.34 | TJ- | hiuf_: Is the RAID a mirror (RAID-1) or something else. You can really only boot from a mirror using mdadm |
| 12:17.46 | ryonaloli | question, what's the best way to recover a string of text from a deleted file in an HDD on a live server? |
| 12:18.11 | petn-randall | Yeah, but to boot from the mirror you have to install it to the physical *disk*, not the RAID device. |
| 12:18.12 | ryonaloli | right now i'm doing: strings /dev/sda | grep -b5 -a >> strings.txt |
| 12:18.47 | TJ- | petn-randall: I've always installed to "/dev/mdX" and it writes the MBR to both physical devices correctly, and it works correctly in the event of disk failure |
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| 12:29.21 | colo-work | anyone in here using ucarp, with multiple configured IP-adresses maintained by ucarp? |
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| 12:40.29 | backSlasher | any opinions about SSDs? do you mount with "discard" or run "fstrim" occasionally? |
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| 12:56.14 | saban | hi. i configured debian with 2 ip addresses.. but on eth0 pings are lost when i try to ping local subnet ips... 40% are lost . this is my configuration http://pastebin.com/5hhZ5bmd |
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| 12:56.46 | FUZxxl | Hello! |
| 12:56.58 | FUZxxl | It seems that /usr/bin/ld isn't managed by update-alternatives. |
| 12:57.10 | FUZxxl | What is the preferred approach to install it? |
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| 12:58.32 | strawberries | i'm struggling with grub-efi and dual booting, both debian and windows in uefi installs |
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| 12:58.53 | strawberries | the windows install is on a raid 0 and i cant seem to find the correct boot path for it |
| 12:59.06 | strawberries | like hd0,gpt1 |
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| 12:59.18 | strawberries | any pointers? |
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| 13:01.32 | Shadow_7 | strawberries: from the GRUB> prompt... ls |
| 13:02.21 | strawberries | Shadow_7: thanks, will do |
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| 13:02.32 | Shadow_7 | strawberries: you may need to insmod a few modules (.mod files in /boot/grub/) to gain access to the filesystem / device / partitioning |
| 13:03.18 | strawberries | at the moment ive got a 40_custom entry with insmod part_gpt and chain |
| 13:03.37 | Shadow_7 | like for USB. > insmod ohci && > insmod usb && > ls |
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| 13:04.06 | Shadow_7 | strawberries: that gets added verbatim to /boot/grub/grub.cfg when updatee-grub runs |
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| 13:04.47 | Shadow_7 | update-grub only adds what it sees. Which isn't your USB linux's if they're not plugged into the computer. |
| 13:04.59 | Shadow_7 | or raid things if it doesn't speak the lingo |
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| 13:05.59 | strawberries | alright |
| 13:06.11 | strawberries | thanks |
| 13:06.57 | strawberries | i'll report back in a minute :) |
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| 13:11.26 | strawberries | Shadow_7: it says 'disk hd1,gpt2 not found' |
| 13:11.32 | strawberries | not really sure whats going on there |
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| 13:27.43 | sfsadfsadf | guys, why people don't lile ubuntu as a server system? |
| 13:27.52 | sfsadfsadf | like |
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| 13:28.15 | easo2k | i tried it once and it destroyed my configs |
| 13:28.27 | sfsadfsadf | easo2k: how? |
| 13:28.29 | nicxz | why ask this here? |
| 13:28.40 | sfsadfsadf | nicxz: where else? |
| 13:28.49 | nicxz | in #ubuntu? |
| 13:28.51 | easo2k | i dont know, i guess ubuntu is doing some things that i dont see |
| 13:29.02 | easo2k | thats why i like pure debian |
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| 13:29.27 | SirLagz | what's the easiest way to get a default configuration file out of a package ? |
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| 13:29.49 | SirLagz | and I don't have aptitude |
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| 13:30.30 | easo2k | go http mirror and load .deb file |
| 13:30.48 | finnpixel | hi! waht is the best way to start helping debian? |
| 13:31.05 | SirLagz | finnpixel: giving all your money to me. :P |
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| 13:31.12 | easo2k | http://mirror.de.leaseweb.net/debian/ |
| 13:31.26 | SynrGy | finnpixel: http://www.debian.org/intro/help |
| 13:32.13 | finnpixel | ok! that seems a good list! |
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| 13:32.38 | easo2k | finnpixel google debian beginner |
| 13:32.52 | finnpixel | ok |
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| 13:34.35 | infoget | Hi, I have user "deploy" and I need to manage programs without password, I have edited sudoers file with visudo, but unsuccessful... here is line: deploy ALL=NOPASSWD:ALL |
| 13:34.47 | strawberries | Shadow_7: thanks but its too much of a pain in the ass. i'll just roll without raid |
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| 13:37.49 | Lugal | are the Packages from Debian main repository more secure than the ones from the developers website? |
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| 13:42.45 | brontosaurusrex | Lugal, not neccesarily |
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| 13:43.22 | BXian | hi |
| 13:44.43 | easo2k | using wheezy + main repo is the "securest" way of art for end user |
| 13:44.46 | easo2k | imo |
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| 13:45.40 | BXian | <PROTECTED> |
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| 13:48.34 | SuperNull | did anyone have a solution to clonsing SSDs and the UEFI problem? |
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| 14:09.56 | backSlasher | Anyone using non-standard kernel? |
| 14:10.15 | babilen | be the first! |
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| 14:10.44 | backSlasher | I mean backports, not "I compiled it myself" |
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| 14:12.17 | guest648 | backSlasher: do you have a support question? |
| 14:12.22 | heurist | backSlasher: backports kernel works well. |
| 14:12.39 | backSlasher | guest648, heurist I'm worried about lack of security / stability updates |
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| 14:13.41 | heurist | backSlasher: sure, I worry too, but trust backports enough. There is nothing wrong with stable kernel though, unless you NEED those bleeding edge features. |
| 14:13.58 | backSlasher | heurist, I require TRIM support for RAID1 |
| 14:14.18 | guest648 | Why do you specifically want kernel security updates? |
| 14:14.30 | heurist | backSlasher: exactly, so then you need a newer kernel and backports is the best way to get that. |
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| 14:15.16 | backSlasher | if it wasn't kernel I wouldn't worry, but since it's a pretty important part of my servers, I'm concerned that I won't get some critical fix |
| 14:15.18 | heurist | backSlasher: guest648 backports get security updates from the kernel guys. |
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| 14:16.25 | backSlasher | heurist, OK. And do you think I should just pin the kernel packages to backports? I don't suppose stable will ever get to 3.8+ |
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| 14:17.05 | heurist | backSlasher: that is the route I would go. |
| 14:17.32 | guest648 | heurist: http://backports.debian.org/FAQ/ "Unfortunately not. This is done on a best effort basis by the people who track the package". Do you have hard references from the bpo kernel maintainers that promise security updates? |
| 14:18.15 | heurist | guest648: no promise, but I meant the actual kernel guys try to keep it secure, as in Linux Torvalds. |
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| 14:18.48 | heurist | s/Linux/Linus/ |
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| 14:19.33 | guest648 | erm, I'm talking about the guys/gals who maintain the kernel package on debian's bpo |
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| 14:20.10 | heurist | guest648: they get it from the actual kernel guys, who I trust. |
| 14:20.43 | bartzy | Is there a link that explains how Debian stable package update is working? I mean, who decides what gets in and what doesnât and when. For example for the kernel packages, but virtually for every package |
| 14:20.55 | guest648 | that's not my point. sure, but how often? |
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| 14:22.19 | heurist | guest648: more often then stable, but what does that mean, as often as needed? |
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| 14:22.35 | Shadow_7 | bartzy: there's guidelines mostly. Like days since last "new" bug report. Not sure of the link, if any. |
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| 14:23.07 | bartzy | Shadow_7: For example, will wheezy ever get a kernel version different than 3.2.x ? |
| 14:23.17 | Shadow_7 | probably not |
| 14:23.27 | bartzy | Shadow_7: Or it will ONLY get security updates for 3.2.X , as kernel.org releases them ? |
| 14:23.34 | Shadow_7 | but... you can supply your own kernel it does have build tools |
| 14:24.02 | Shadow_7 | there's backports and testing / unstable for newer things |
| 14:24.14 | bartzy | Shadow_7: OK, and for nginx for example. After stable is freezed (for example Wheezy right now), the nginx version on stable will never change, but the debian maintainer for that package will port (patch) security updates if they exist, to that version, right ? |
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| 14:24.48 | Shadow_7 | in theory I suppose. Not a debian maintainer or anything, just a fan / power user |
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| 14:24.57 | bartzy | OK |
| 14:24.58 | bartzy | thanks |
| 14:25.08 | bartzy | Can anyone answer if this is how debian stable operates ? |
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| 14:26.13 | heurist | bartzy: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-ftparchives#s-frozen |
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| 14:26.55 | bartzy | Lets say (theoretically) thereâs a nginx package, stable has it on v1.4.3. The nginx upstream developers no longer maintain security updates for this version and recommend moving to a newer upstream version which they consider is stable. Now a security issue is discovered for 1.4.3. What happens to fix it on the debian stable repo ? |
| 14:27.44 | heurist | bartzy: the Debian security team backport the security fixes to "stable" the version does not change. |
| 14:28.01 | bartzy | heurist: So they actually patch the existing stable version code? |
| 14:28.10 | bartzy | So they know what theyâre doing with that specific (lets say nginx) package? |
| 14:28.19 | heurist | bartzy: often the security fixes came from Debian first and the upstream added them and updated the version. |
| 14:28.51 | heurist | bartzy: they patch for *security* only though, not new features, that would not be "stable". |
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| 14:29.13 | heurist | bartzy: you do not want your production server changing how it does things. |
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| 14:29.22 | bartzy | heurist: What about bugs ? |
| 14:29.45 | heurist | bartzy: security bugs are fixed they do not change behaviour. |
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| 14:30.19 | bartzy | heurist: So if thereâs a bug that was not discovered , that for some reason crashes nginx, it will not be fixed? |
| 14:31.12 | heurist | bartzy: hard to say, a crash is the first step to an exploit, so it may be a security thing. |
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| 14:32.10 | bartzy | What if the security issue , or grave bug for example, cannot be fixed easily in the version on stable, and the way that upstream fixed it was to change stuff radically. Then the debian security team will consider bumping the stable version of that package? I think it happened once with mysql 5.0, which was updated on stable to 5.1 and that was very drastic? Who decides on something like that? |
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| 14:32.58 | heurist | bartzy: as you say, drastic measures are sometimes needed, "they" decide. |
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| 14:33.19 | bartzy | âtheyâ is the debian security team? Others? |
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| 14:34.09 | heurist | bartzy: "they" is magic, you should not concern yourself about it. But yes, sec team and the rest of the Debain big-wigs. |
| 14:34.16 | bartzy | Cool |
| 14:34.19 | bartzy | last question to verify |
| 14:34.30 | bartzy | (just out of interest, not a practical question) |
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| 14:34.56 | bartzy | So basically that means that the Debian maintainer for the stable nginx package (for example) really knows his way around nginx code , is that correct? |
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| 14:35.44 | heurist | bartzy: you would hope so, you need to trust the people who make your distribution, trust they know what they are doing. |
| 14:35.47 | caraconan | Hi there. There's any FTP command line client which implements TLS (ftpes://ftp.example.com). Thanks |
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| 14:36.31 | Shadow_7 | sftp? don't know much about tls aside from gnutls getting a lot of updates. |
| 14:36.48 | hesco | On a jessie install, what shell is used to run the scripts in /etc/init.d ?? |
| 14:36.54 | bartzy | heurist: Thanks a lot |
| 14:37.12 | heurist | hesco: probaly dash. |
| 14:37.29 | Shadow_7 | hesco: depends on the #! of the scripts. dash is default if none is specified. |
| 14:37.35 | FuzzyWhirlpool | rsync is somewhat better than sftp/scp for transferring files. |
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| 14:38.05 | Shadow_7 | netcat ftw |
| 14:38.24 | Shadow_7 | hesco: or if /bin/sh is specified, that links to dash |
| 14:38.48 | heurist | hesco: ls -l /bin/sh will tell you what /bin/sh is |
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| 14:39.49 | hesco | thanks Shadow_7 and heurist. sh -> dash and fixing the #! line to bash resolved: ulimit: Illegal option -u error. |
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| 14:41.29 | rasc | hesco: bash is slower and uses more memory, if might be useful to you to look at dash |
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| 14:41.49 | caraconan | My problem is that the server requires TLS, there's nothing that I can do about it. At the moment working with filezilla, but I would like a client that supports recursive copy (like yafc) |
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| 14:42.34 | Shadow_7 | dash is quite featureless, kind of like the arm chip of scripting languages. |
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| 14:44.43 | dracc | My samba share wont be mounted b4 i run "mount -a" as root twice. First two times (bootup and first manual "mount -a"), it gives me error -5 input/output error. Third try, it works. What to do? |
| 14:45.09 | dracc | No errors in any logs that I can find. :( |
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| 14:46.31 | Shadow_7 | dracc: sleep 30; mount -a |
| 14:46.58 | dracc | Shadow_7, What? :$ |
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| 14:47.26 | Shadow_7 | is your samba share in /etc/fstab? |
| 14:47.30 | dracc | Shadow_7, It doesn't matter if I try the second time an hour after bootup or as soon as I've logged in. |
| 14:47.34 | dracc | Shadow_7, Yes. |
| 14:47.49 | Shadow_7 | and smbd starts at boot? |
| 14:47.53 | dracc | Yup |
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| 14:48.07 | Shadow_7 | and the firewall doesn't get in the way? |
| 14:48.18 | dracc | Nope. |
| 14:48.38 | Shadow_7 | and it's thursday and raining? oh wait, that's a microsoft methodology. |
| 14:48.39 | dracc | And even if it did, why would it block the same program twice, but not a third time |
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| 14:50.05 | Shadow_7 | maybe there's a kernel module that doesn't load at boot for it? |
| 14:50.07 | dracc | Both the server and client runs Debian, but when I run Windows on the client, there's nno problem. :( |
| 14:50.18 | dracc | no * |
| 14:50.57 | Shadow_7 | I use nfs if I need a networked filesystem. But I don't normally do much more than ftp or netcat for networked file transfers on local machines. |
| 14:50.57 | dracc | If there was a missing module, why won't it give me the error the third time, if the only command I use is "mount -a"? :( |
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| 14:51.13 | dracc | OK, I'll look into that. :) |
| 14:51.19 | Shadow_7 | dracc: lsmod before and after and diff |
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| 14:52.01 | dracc | Shadow_7, I'll try that. Thanks. :) |
| 14:52.07 | TJ- | dracc: The samba share is on a remote server? |
| 14:52.26 | dracc | TJ-, nah, same subnet |
| 14:52.43 | dracc | In fact, the server is located about 10 inches from the client. |
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| 14:53.59 | TJ- | dracc: That's a remote server, it ain't the localhost. is the mount in fstab specified by FQDN, hostname, or IP address? If by name, have you tried using the IP address? |
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| 14:54.56 | dracc | TJ-, now it's the servers public hostname (example.com), until recently I used the servers local IP (192.168.1.1) |
| 14:55.05 | dracc | With the same result. |
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| 14:56.11 | strawberries | hey, Shadow_7 |
| 14:56.25 | strawberries | for completions sake i managed to boot the raid0 and it was easier than i had thought |
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| 14:57.05 | TJ- | dracc: Did it exhibit the same error when using the IP address? |
| 14:57.08 | strawberries | used grub probe to find the uuid of the boot partition and then this menu entry http://askubuntu.com/questions/193144/dual-boot-uefi-windows-7-and-ubuntu-12-04-both-64-bits-w7-entry-doesnt-appea |
| 14:57.17 | strawberries | might be good to know anyway |
| 14:57.19 | strawberries | see ya |
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| 14:57.33 | dracc | TJ-, exactly. :( |
| 14:57.39 | SuperNull | got past my efi problems. how ever i forget the file that has the NIC macs in it.. to correct it |
| 14:58.03 | jhutchins | SuperNull: Is that a question? |
| 14:58.05 | TJ- | dracc: another potential cause is mount.cifs using the wrong authentication, do you have/have you tried adding the mount option "sec=ntlm" ? |
| 14:58.10 | SuperNull | lol yes. sadly. |
| 14:58.18 | SuperNull | what is the file that has the macs hardcoded in it ? |
| 14:58.38 | jhutchins | SuperNull: MAC addresses are in the firmware of the NIC. |
| 14:58.49 | jhutchins | SuperNull: Not needed unless you're spoofing. |
| 14:58.50 | TJ- | SuperNull: Do you mean the udev rule for persistent interface names? |
| 14:58.57 | SuperNull | TJ- thats probably correct... |
| 14:59.04 | SuperNull | where as it still thinks its the old mac on a different box |
| 14:59.07 | dracc | TJ-, I use "sec=ntlm", yes. :) |
| 14:59.12 | TJ- | SuperNull: "/etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules" I think |
| 14:59.27 | SuperNull | u da man |
| 14:59.28 | SuperNull | ty |
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| 15:00.34 | TJ- | dracc: I'd try to figure out if the issue is 'on-the-wire' by comparing a good and bad mount attempt with a targeted tcpdump/wireshark monitor. |
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| 15:01.50 | dracc | TJ-, The thing is, the first two-out-of-three tries have failed for about 3 months straight, and the third have ALWAYS worked. That's what confuses me the most. :( |
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| 15:02.35 | dracc | Well, I'll try to reboot and run lsmod before and after successful attempt to mount. CU |
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| 15:03.23 | TJ- | dracc: I'm reading that the choice of server-name can cause the issue, e.g. you have a server //apple/ but it is known via DNS as //apple.domain.tld/, and the server's domain isn't set to "domain.tld" |
| 15:03.44 | gcdie | Have you guys tried vagrant ? |
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| 15:06.30 | tubaman | gcdie: I have. |
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| 15:06.35 | E1ven | I'm running debian 7.5, and trying to use a swapfile. When I do a free -b, it gives me "Swap: 2147479552", whereas if I do a ls -l on /swap, it gives a size of 2147483648. I've done swapon/swapoff on /swap, so I'm reasonably sure it's up to date. What accounts for the size difference? |
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| 15:07.27 | gcdie | what do you think of it i am currently using it and i love it |
| 15:07.31 | easo2k | hate those long ass numbers. what about (g)parted? |
| 15:07.44 | E1ven | easo2k - It's a swapfile, not a partition. |
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| 15:08.17 | easo2k | ah file, sry |
| 15:08.36 | tubaman | gcdie: It's perfect for dev environment setups because it doesn't matter what the dev workstation is running(win/mac/linux) |
| 15:09.04 | easo2k | maybe bit/byte difference? |
| 15:09.41 | easo2k | http://web.njit.edu/~walsh/powers/bits.vs.bytes.html |
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| 15:10.14 | Shadow_7 | E1ven: try swapon -s |
| 15:10.36 | E1ven | 2097148 |
| 15:11.04 | Cyclohexane | how do i downgrade a libgtk to an earlier version? i think i'm on 3.12 (under jessie/testing) and seem to be experiencing this https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=726562 |
| 15:11.18 | Shadow_7 | swapon -s -h |
| 15:11.39 | E1ven | <PROTECTED> |
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| 15:12.18 | dracc | Back. |
| 15:12.35 | dracc | Now my share connected on the first retry.diff of lsmod before and after looks like this: http://paste.debian.net/109913/ |
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| 15:13.15 | tubaman | E1ven: the difference is exactly 4096. That 4k is probably being used as metadata so it doesn't show up when you do a free -b |
| 15:13.24 | E1ven | That'd make sense. |
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| 15:14.02 | tubaman | E1ven: of course I have no real proof of that but it sure sounds plausible doesn't it :) |
| 15:14.06 | Shadow_7 | 0 used might meen a low swappiness value. Which would be moot if too low. |
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| 15:17.08 | E1ven | Ah! https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=580558 implies that mkswap treats the first sector in a special way. |
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| 15:18.12 | E1ven | from man mkswap - "The swap header does not touch the first block. A boot loader or disk label can be there, but it is not a recommended setup. The recommended setup is to use a separate partition for a Linux swap area." |
| 15:18.16 | E1ven | There we go ;) |
| 15:18.18 | E1ven | Thanks! |
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| 15:18.32 | Eduard_Munteanu | Are packages downloaded by the install CDs from the network checked for authenticity? |
| 15:18.45 | formorer | yes. |
| 15:19.26 | Eduard_Munteanu | Any chance you have a source for that off the top of your head? I got bitten by Fedora's net install not crypto-checking at all, and without warning. |
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| 15:19.48 | formorer | Eduard_Munteanu: sure. check the sourcecode of apt |
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| 15:19.54 | Eduard_Munteanu | :) |
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| 15:20.42 | formorer | Eduard_Munteanu: https://wiki.debian.org/SecureApt |
| 15:20.48 | thm | how can I prevent apt from trying to replace upstert with sysvinit? |
| 15:21.09 | Eduard_Munteanu | formorer: I do know apt itself does it securely, was double-checking this for the installer |
| 15:21.12 | Amarande | thm: pretty sure debian doesn't use upstart, so I'm not sure what distro you're on |
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| 15:21.50 | thm | Amarande: huh? maybe it doesn't use it per default. but it surely has it installable and working. |
| 15:21.57 | Amarande | there was actually quite a huge row about that a while ago, where some canonical guy I think it was tried to push debian to a vote about upstart and systemd really quickly, and I'm *pretty* sure sanity prevailed and systemd was chosen |
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| 15:22.21 | formorer | thm: working is relative. it isn't the best supported of all sysV alternatives. |
| 15:22.46 | thm | formorer: for some reason or another, it is the one chosen by my VPS provider. |
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| 15:24.05 | thm | but that doesn't answer my question... |
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| 15:24.57 | formorer | thm: find the packages that trys to enforce sysv and don't install/upgrade it. |
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| 15:25.23 | formorer | Eduard_Munteanu: afair the d-i uses debootstrap and apt for package installation. |
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| 15:25.46 | Eduard_Munteanu | Interesting, I did not know it used debootstrap. |
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| 15:26.14 | duggles | thm: I'm not sure if this would work but could you try 'aptitude hold upstart' to freeze the package? |
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| 15:26.21 | formorer | Eduard_Munteanu: I am not entirely sure, but it has a debootstrap component |
| 15:26.36 | formorer | Eduard_Munteanu: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/CheckOut - check it out and see... |
| 15:26.59 | Eduard_Munteanu | wishes there was an official manual installation method involving debootstrap and no installer |
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| 15:28.51 | formorer | Eduard_Munteanu: use grml-debootstrap :) |
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| 15:28.59 | Allezxandre | Hey, I am using an old computer on Debian as a do-everything seed box. Is there a way to tell my BitTorrent client on debian that it should prioritize uploads to my private IP's computers? I want to use it to speed up my downloads at home |
| 15:29.03 | Eduard_Munteanu | looks that up |
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| 15:32.23 | asterismo | hi eiople |
| 15:32.25 | asterismo | people |
| 15:32.53 | asterismo | i need to compile the module for virtualbox in a wheezy-backport 3.12 or 3.13 kernel |
| 15:32.59 | asterismo | the module does not compile |
| 15:35.17 | Cpuroast | 3.13 is dead, you could try Wheezy-backport 3.14 |
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| 15:36.19 | jmcnaught | asterismo: are you using the virtualbox-dkms package? |
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| 15:38.22 | asterismo | jmcnaught: i installed the .deb from the virtualbox package |
| 15:38.30 | asterismo | and installed "dkms" package |
| 15:38.45 | asterismo | and run the command to compile the module |
| 15:38.51 | asterismo | let me check |
| 15:39.05 | jmcnaught | asterismo: are you using the debian provided virtualbox packages, or did you get them somewhere else? |
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| 15:40.14 | asterismo | i'm not using the OS edition |
| 15:40.20 | formorer | asterismo: which virtualbox package, the one from stable? |
| 15:40.33 | asterismo | i'm using the one built for debian 7 from the VB webpage |
| 15:40.34 | Cyclohexane | how do i downgrade a libgtk to an earlier version? i think i'm on 3.12 (under jessie/testing) and seem to be experiencing this https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=726562 |
| 15:40.50 | formorer | asterismo: then it isn't supported here. |
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| 15:42.05 | jmcnaught | Cyclohexane: you're looking for #debian-next on irc.oftc.net for jessie support |
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| 15:43.02 | Cyclohexane | jmcnaught: how do you downgrade a package though, in general? |
| 15:43.08 | asterismo | does virtualbox from debian repos has support for USB devices and allows to install modules? |
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| 15:46.37 | tugrik | asterismo: you'll need to install the addition from Oracle to enable USB |
| 15:46.38 | jhutchins | ,kernels |
| 15:46.39 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 3.15-trunk-686-pae (3.15.5-1~exp1); sid: 3.14-1-686-pae (3.14.12-1); jessie: 3.14-1-686-pae (3.14.12-1); wheezy-backports: 3.14-0.bpo.1-686-pae (3.14.12-1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.60-1+deb7u1); squeeze-backports: 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.2.57-3+deb7u2~bpo60+1); squeeze: 2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-48squeeze6) |
| 15:46.50 | asterismo | so what is the difference between the OS version and the propietary one? |
| 15:47.18 | jmcnaught | asterismo: I use libvirt+KVM instead of VirtualBox. I'm pretty sure it supports USB redirection, but I haven't needed to use it |
| 15:47.26 | tugrik | nothing as far as I remember... |
| 15:47.46 | jmcnaught | Cyclohexane: it says how in the apt-get man page, but like I said for Jessie support ask in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net |
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| 15:52.39 | Amarande | btw ... exactly why do we split support for stable and testing off to completely separate networks? *blink* |
| 15:52.46 | Amarande | it's never quite occurred to me before to ask, heh |
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| 15:53.42 | jmcnaught | Amarande: the official #debian is on irc.oftc.net too.. I think the migration was several years ago, but people still come to freenode |
| 15:53.44 | mtn | Amarande: there is a stable channel on oftc as well |
| 15:53.47 | formorer | Amarande: in fact this one here isn't the unofficial channel |
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| 15:56.14 | jmcnaught | Amarande: https://wiki.debian.org/IRC/ (not that irc.debian.org is an alias for irc.oftc.net) |
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| 15:57.16 | jmcnaught | s/not/note :) |
| 15:57.55 | somiaj | yea the split has been a while, but as for support #debian on freenode is a catch all for debian support, while on irc.oftc.net support is further split up into tons of channels. |
| 15:58.04 | somiaj | testing/unstable questions are just fine here. |
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| 15:58.42 | jmcnaught | oh i thought it said otherwise in the topic |
| 15:59.33 | somiaj | jmcnaught: most likely they will get better support on irc.oftc.net, but I wouldn't consider testing/unstable offtopic here and pushing someone to another network to answer a question that can be answered here seems overkill. |
| 15:59.41 | slinnky | jmcnaught, depends on who you talk to........ babilen thinks this channel is just for questions about stable |
| 16:00.23 | slinnky | debian-user is probably the best place to get support, imo |
| 16:00.39 | jmcnaught | somiaj: i guess maybe i'll tone done my pushing to a recommend :) |
| 16:00.43 | jhutchins | slinnky: The people here have limited knowledge of testing/unstable, the people in debian-next are there because they work with it. |
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| 16:01.09 | slinnky | jhutchins, I dunno, I run testing, I am here |
| 16:01.29 | jhutchins | slinnky: We direct people to that channel not because we don't want to help, but becaus they're more likely to get good answers to testing-specific questions. |
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| 16:01.50 | jhutchins | slinnky: Sometimes we can answer them here, sometimes the person who knows isn't active here. |
| 16:01.50 | slinnky | jhutchins, yeah I understand that |
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| 16:01.58 | slinnky | yeah, that all makes sense |
| 16:02.01 | gooberfoob | anyone use rkhunter on their debian machine ? |
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| 16:02.19 | somiaj | gooberfoob: pools are bad ways to get the answer you want. What is your real question? |
| 16:02.22 | jhutchins | gooberfoob: Lots of people. Did you have a question about it? |
| 16:02.37 | somiaj | s/pools/polls/ |
| 16:03.03 | gooberfoob | I was wondering if anyone is familar with rkhunter and is able to understand any warnings it gives back |
| 16:03.42 | gooberfoob | I have a warning about suspicious files, but im not sure if its a bug with false positives or something i should be concerned about |
| 16:03.49 | somiaj | gooberfoob: so why not ask that, take those warnings and paste them to paste.debian.net and ask if anyone knows what they mean and if you should worry. |
| 16:04.00 | gooberfoob | I will in a sec. |
| 16:04.14 | gooberfoob | thank you for being responsive and not a jerk haah |
| 16:04.33 | slinnky | lol |
| 16:04.44 | gooberfoob | sometimes individuals on here can be a little harsh |
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| 16:05.36 | mtn | I wonder why :P |
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| 16:07.26 | gooberfoob | not all of us know everything 0.0. |
| 16:07.36 | gooberfoob | and here are my warning from rkhunter http://pastebin.com/TiKGQW6w |
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| 16:08.26 | jhutchins | gooberfoob: There are some known false positives. I haven't bothered to fix them yet on my system. |
| 16:08.45 | gooberfoob | So these are false positives ? |
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| 16:14.51 | jhutchins | gooberfoob: The pulse files are known to be OK, I don't know about the chrome stuff. You can whitelist things in rkhunter.conf if they're ok. |
| 16:15.15 | gooberfoob | I use iceweasel but not chrome |
| 16:15.25 | jhutchins | gooberfoob: Is chrome installed? |
| 16:15.48 | slinnky | if chromium-browser is not installed I would be hella suspicious |
| 16:15.50 | gooberfoob | i have created a userContent.css file in chrome to resolve the cpu bug for iceweasel |
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| 16:16.41 | slinnky | is chromium running? |
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| 16:18.52 | gooberfoob | No |
| 16:19.03 | slinnky | brianblaze420! I like the nick dude |
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| 16:19.15 | asterismo | i got this error |
| 16:19.16 | asterismo | sh: 0: getcwd() failed: No such file or directory |
| 16:19.24 | gooberfoob | but, there is a chrome folder. |
| 16:19.35 | brianblaze420 | lol thanks it took a long time to create such a badass name :P haha slinnky |
| 16:20.19 | asterismo | when installing virtualbox |
| 16:20.31 | gooberfoob | in /home/gooberfoob/firefox/.mozilla/*randomstring*default/chrome is where i put the .css file to fix the firefox issue |
| 16:20.59 | gooberfoob | That is where I was instructed to put it... not sure how it is connected. |
| 16:21.26 | jmcnaught | asterismo: installing virtualbox how, with the debian packages in main or wheezy-backports? |
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| 16:22.23 | asterismo | i'll reboot into the new kernel |
| 16:22.29 | asterismo | will be right back |
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| 16:23.07 | slinnky | gooberfoob, honestly I can't say for sure.... but I suspect that's a false positive |
| 16:23.26 | gooberfoob | Yeah, I just install my OS 2 days ago. |
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| 16:23.51 | slinnky | oh okay, yeah I wouldn't worry about it |
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| 16:24.05 | slinnky | you're just getting those hits in /dev/shm and not where the binary lives right? |
| 16:24.12 | slinnky | chromium binary |
| 16:24.13 | strawberries | hey so this is the first time im using an nvidia card on debian |
| 16:24.20 | slinnky | strawberries, good luck |
| 16:24.22 | strawberries | i run sid at the moment, and i want to use nouveau |
| 16:24.24 | strawberries | yea |
| 16:24.32 | gooberfoob | download smxi script and get the drivers |
| 16:24.35 | strawberries | if i dont boot with nomodeset, i just get frozen terms |
| 16:24.53 | strawberries | i dont want the proprietary stuff :< |
| 16:24.53 | towo` | strawberries, ynd your secret card is? |
| 16:24.55 | gooberfoob | smxi works pretty well in my opinion. |
| 16:24.58 | strawberries | gtx 780 |
| 16:25.11 | towo` | gooberfoob, don't provide that senseless script here |
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| 16:25.28 | towo` | strawberries, on stable? forget nouveau |
| 16:25.31 | strawberries | sid |
| 16:25.35 | gooberfoob | hahaha it does all the work for me |
| 16:25.49 | antonio__ | what are the best firewall for debian? |
| 16:25.55 | towo` | iptables |
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| 16:26.04 | strawberries | does everyone with nvidia run the binary blobs then? |
| 16:26.06 | antonio__ | thanks |
| 16:26.17 | towo` | strawberries, sure |
| 16:26.18 | petern_ | i use the blobs cos my card is not supported by nouveau |
| 16:26.29 | strawberries | towo`: but my freedom |
| 16:26.34 | towo` | strawberries, but at the moment, you can't install the blob in sid |
| 16:26.47 | Psychon4ut | Hi guys, if I got a system with a read only root mount, do you expecting any problems with creating a symlink from for example /opt/etc/apache2 to /etc/apache2 to keep it writable ? |
| 16:26.52 | somiaj | strawberries: depends on what you want to do, but usually people who spend the money on the higher end cards (like the 780 GTX) want better 3d support than offered by nouveau. |
| 16:27.01 | petern_ | performance of nouveau was also pretty dire last time i tried it |
| 16:27.06 | Amarande | strawberries: yeah, the binary blob is usually the way to go |
| 16:27.18 | strawberries | i see |
| 16:27.24 | strawberries | towo`: yea a broken dependency i think i saw? |
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| 16:27.25 | Amarande | nouveau apparently supports the raw nuts-n-bolts of 3D on pretty much all nvidia cards (except 750 series because that's maxwell and that's brand new) |
| 16:27.28 | Amarande | *but* |
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| 16:27.37 | towo` | nouveau does not support the gtx780 realy |
| 16:27.38 | Amarande | it doesn't support some auxiliary features like power management, that's why it performs so badly |
| 16:27.57 | Amarande | see power management on a graphics card is the opposite way round from power management on a cpu |
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| 16:28.20 | jhutchins | gooberfoob: You could just delete those chrome files and whitelist the pulse files. |
| 16:28.20 | Amarande | cpus default to full clock speed, as I understand it, and get downclocked when idle |
| 16:28.26 | somiaj | strawberries: with very new hardware like the 780 the nouveau support may not fully support it (there is a #nouveau channel to ask there). I personally use the binary blob (Via the debian dkms packages) but that is because I want to run games and have full 3d support. |
| 16:28.34 | jhutchins | gooberfoob: Thanks to you I just cleaned up my system for false positives. |
| 16:28.42 | Amarande | otoh, a graphics card runs by default at the LOW speed, and the driver has to clock it UP when under load |
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| 16:28.55 | strawberries | somiaj: fair enough. i dual boot for games |
| 16:28.58 | gooberfoob | how did you go about it jhutchins ? |
| 16:28.59 | Amarande | nouveau apparently doesn't work well with this, so your graphics card gets stuck in first gear, so to speak |
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| 16:29.22 | alves84 | the best firewall for gnome |
| 16:29.25 | Amarande | suppose it does save a hella lot of power, though |
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| 16:30.09 | jhutchins | gooberfoob: I edited /etc/rkhunter.conf |
| 16:30.10 | somiaj | alves84: in most cases you shouldn't need a firewall on debian systems. Usually you don't have random things listening on ports you need to worry about unless you installed it on the port and want it to listen. Beyond that iptables is the core tool that gets used, but there are some gui front ends for it like shorewall, etc. |
| 16:30.34 | jhutchins | gooberfoob: I serched for "rkhunter" and the filename it was reporting to verify that it was a known false positive. |
| 16:30.39 | alves84 | thanks a lot |
| 16:31.03 | jhutchins | gooberfoob: rkhunter.conf is extensively doccumented in the comments, be sure to read through so you know which command to use. |
| 16:31.05 | somiaj | alves84: on a home system if you are connected to a router, the firewall the router provides should be more than sufficent. |
| 16:31.25 | alves84 | I want the best |
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| 16:31.59 | alves84 | I dont like this firewall |
| 16:32.15 | gooberfoob | soooo i am using sparky linux openbox |
| 16:32.31 | alves84 | blz |
| 16:33.00 | centrx | !sparky |
| 16:33.01 | dpkg | SparkyLinux is a Linux distribution based on <testing>. It is not supported in #debian. http://sparkylinux.org/ See also <based on debian>. |
| 16:33.04 | gooberfoob | I was using debian jessie... but things kept breaking so i went to sparky linux openbox and its base is jessie testing |
| 16:33.35 | gooberfoob | i dont wanna leave debain chat :( nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| 16:33.39 | Amarande | gooberfoob: yeah, but we're specifically for Debian |
| 16:33.51 | jhutchins | alves84: The best, in fact the only good firewall is the one on the upstream entrance point - the router. On-system firewalls are false protections, all packets reach the kernel. |
| 16:33.55 | Amarande | otherwise next thing we'd have to support every distro that uses apt and dpkg, pretty much :S |
| 16:33.57 | gooberfoob | i will never let go !!! |
| 16:34.15 | *** join/#debian asterismo (~santiago@r179-25-38-243.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 16:34.22 | gooberfoob | I can still pretend I am using debian... |
| 16:34.23 | asterismo | well |
| 16:34.44 | alves84 | I know edian linux |
| 16:34.46 | jhutchins | gooberfoob: Just be aware that something that might fix debian could easily break spark. |
| 16:34.58 | asterismo | i'm on kernel 3.14 from wheezy backports |
| 16:35.04 | jhutchins | gooberfoob: We don't knwo what they change. |
| 16:35.06 | somiaj | gooberfoob: pretend all you want but if you are constantlly asking for support on based on debian software you may be removed from the channel. |
| 16:35.06 | asterismo | now i cannot install virtualbox |
| 16:35.35 | gooberfoob | im pretty sure sparky does not have a support channel |
| 16:36.00 | asterismo | http://pastebin.com/9Q9VxD6L |
| 16:36.08 | asterismo | it gives this error |
| 16:36.23 | Amarande | gooberfoob: sadly, it's something open sourcers have to be especially ... oh, he left |
| 16:36.30 | Amarande | I was going to say, especially careful about, is support scope |
| 16:36.58 | Amarande | in fact, one of the commonest arguments I've seen *against* open source is the "but what happens when people running derivative programs keep coming to you for support" one :( |
| 16:37.22 | strawberries | towo`: thats pretty funny. the dependency/install broke exactly the day i put this system online. |
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| 16:37.29 | strawberries | :S |
| 16:37.59 | asterismo | this is strange |
| 16:38.00 | asterismo | insserv: script virtualbox: service vboxdrv already provided! |
| 16:38.10 | somiaj | Amarande: usually I just say we don't supported based on debian for social reasons and some tech reasons. |
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| 16:38.23 | asterismo | any ideas? |
| 16:38.24 | Amarande | strawberries: but yeah, use the blob |
| 16:38.28 | jmcnaught | dpkg: tell asterismo -about localized errors |
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| 16:38.50 | Amarande | I was reading about nouveau's progress, like I said, it apparently supports the bare basics, but performance is pretty terrible |
| 16:39.00 | Amarande | we're talking like someone's GTX 560 fermi performed like an intel integrated gpu |
| 16:39.06 | strawberries | Amarande: i will once its installable, or maybe downgrade for now |
| 16:39.08 | strawberries | thanks |
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| 16:39.23 | jmcnaught | asterismo: did you completely purge the packages you had been using from the oracle website or where ever? Also it's a lot easier to follow you if you don't hit <enter> so much :) |
| 16:39.24 | asterismo | jmcnaught: yes |
| 16:39.26 | asterismo | sorry |
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| 16:39.39 | Amarande | hrm, crap, that means nvidia is currently broken in jessie :( |
| 16:39.56 | towo` | vbox 4.1.18 will never build against kernel 3.14 |
| 16:39.58 | Amarande | or wait, that's sid |
| 16:40.09 | rasc | at least nvidia started contributing code to nuveau |
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| 16:40.20 | Amarande | makes me think it might be a good idea to swap out my 770 and put in my HD 7850 |
| 16:40.36 | Amarande | except that means I need to consider whether fglrx works with debian's stock kernel this week, heh |
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| 16:41.48 | jmcnaught | asterismo: i think it's complaining about /etc/init.d/vboxdrv already existing (left there by the third party packages probably) |
| 16:41.50 | towo` | fglrx does even not support video ABI 18, si fglrx in sid is broken like nvidia blob |
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| 16:42.19 | waqstar | found this funny. using smtp-source for the first time to test my new mail server - this is what it puts in the body of the message by default: http://postimg.org/image/rvegcx46n |
| 16:42.20 | towo` | jmcnaught, it does not matter, vbox 4.1.18 will not build against kernel 3.14 |
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| 16:42.25 | asterismo | jmcnaught: yes |
| 16:42.34 | asterismo | it was the virtualbox-4.3 installed |
| 16:42.39 | asterismo | now i got another error |
| 16:42.44 | jmcnaught | asterismo: virtualbox 4.3.12 is in wheezy-backports |
| 16:43.07 | asterismo | http://pastebin.com/907dM7gq |
| 16:43.11 | asterismo | check that |
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| 16:43.34 | asterismo | i have enabled the non free repos also |
| 16:43.50 | somiaj | asterismo: and contrib? |
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| 16:44.09 | asterismo | yes, contrib too. I want to be able to run virtualbox with USB support with the bpo 3.14 kernel |
| 16:44.51 | somiaj | asterismo: I don't see the dkms package actually trying to compile the kernel module. Others say it won't compile against that kernel, but I'm just double checking. You do have hte linux-headers for tha tkernel installed? |
| 16:45.27 | somiaj | oh I missed it, line 48, there is a make log as to why it won't compile, but seems it may be the kernel you are using. |
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| 16:45.47 | towo` | what is hard to understand in version 4.1.8 will never compile on kernel 3.14? |
| 16:45.59 | towo` | *4.1.18 |
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| 16:47.13 | asterismo | towo`: i did not know that |
| 16:47.23 | asterismo | so what to do? |
| 16:47.27 | asterismo | downgrade kernel? |
| 16:47.30 | jmcnaught | asterismo: there's a newer version of virtualbox in wheezy-backports |
| 16:47.34 | towo` | use vbox from backports |
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| 16:47.57 | asterismo | what version? |
| 16:48.10 | *** join/#debian smica (~smica@host-88-132-114-184.prtelecom.hu) |
| 16:48.13 | asterismo | what package name? |
| 16:48.57 | centrx | ,v virtualbox |
| 16:48.57 | somiaj | asterismo: apt-cache policy virtualbox (my guess is it is the same package name -- that should show you if there is a wheezy-backports version avaiable which there should be if you have it enabled) |
| 16:48.58 | judd | Package: virtualbox on i386 -- squeeze-backports: 4.0.10-dfsg-1~bpo60+2; wheezy: 4.1.18-dfsg-2+deb7u3; wheezy-security: 4.1.18-dfsg-2+deb7u3; wheezy-backports/contrib: 4.3.12-dfsg-1~bpo70+1; sid/contrib: 4.3.12-dfsg-1 |
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| 16:49.41 | DacFarren | is there a rss reader with gdm3 notifications? |
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| 16:51.54 | rasc | DacFarren: you should try a gnome channel, I think |
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| 16:53.02 | asterismo | mmm |
| 16:53.39 | asterismo | somiaj: towo`, jmcnaught, i got this error, and previously purged all virtualbox packages, from stock repos and backports... |
| 16:53.53 | asterismo | http://pastebin.com/j13RbugX |
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| 16:54.59 | somiaj | asterismo: notice the version it is still trying to install 4.1.18, paste the output of 'apt-cache policy virtualbox' |
| 16:55.39 | *** join/#debian ksx4system (~ksx4syste@gaia.mac.info.pl) |
| 16:55.45 | somiaj | and you have been told it won't compile against the kernel you are using |
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| 16:57.01 | asterismo | somiaj: http://pastebin.com/pHiMZvVF |
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| 16:57.33 | asterismo | but i'm trying to install the virtualbox from the backports as well as the kernel... |
| 16:58.03 | asterismo | sorry |
| 16:58.05 | asterismo | this |
| 16:58.06 | asterismo | http://pastebin.com/pHiMZvVF |
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| 16:58.20 | asterismo | forgotted the captcha |
| 16:58.24 | rasc | asterismo: less enter, please |
| 16:58.53 | somiaj | asterismo: you have no version from backports ready to install. My guess is you are missing contrib from your backport sources. Notice how you don't have the backports versoin available in that output you gave me |
| 16:58.59 | asterismo | rasc: sure |
| 16:59.20 | somiaj | modify your wheezy-backport sources to include contrib then rerun apt-get update, then rerun that apt-cache policy virtualbox command and make sure you have the backport version avaialbe |
| 16:59.48 | asterismo | somiaj: YESS |
| 16:59.54 | asterismo | contrib is missing |
| 17:00.01 | asterismo | it should run now |
| 17:00.07 | rasc | less enter |
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| 17:00.15 | Amarande | hrm. anyone aware whether the open source drivers in jessie support a radeon hd 7850's 3D yet? |
| 17:00.23 | jmcnaught | dpkg: tell asterismo -about enter |
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| 17:01.17 | jmcnaught | asterismo: also this channel generally prefers using http://paste.debian.net/ instead of pastebin. pastebin has ads, requires javascript, sometimes makes us enter captchas, sometimes only shows cat pictures |
| 17:01.20 | somiaj | Amarande: check the package firmware-linux-nonfree does it mention having firmware for that card yet. I belive that would be the major thing that would keep them from running smoothly. |
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| 17:02.39 | Amarande | somiaj: desktop cards don't require firmware, far as I'm aware ... only GPU I've seen that needs a firmware loaded from host (as opposed to a driver) is one mobile Radeon model that my fiancee's old laptop had when I put Debian on it |
| 17:03.02 | tremon | Amarande: nope, everything HD6000 and newer requires firmware |
| 17:03.03 | jhutchins | somiaj: Is there a good doc on using apt-cache policy? |
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| 17:03.37 | tremon | Amarande:: HD7850 should be supported |
| 17:04.19 | somiaj | jhutchins: not that I've seen. I only know about it due to help here. The dpkg factoid 'bat' is kinda useful |
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| 17:04.42 | somiaj | Amarande: radeon cards will not give decent 3d support without the firmware provided in firmware-linux-nonfree with the free readeon driver. |
| 17:05.02 | somiaj | Amarande: it will run with out that firmware but it will also give you warnings that you will have limited support/preformance. |
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| 17:05.32 | tremon | the latter isn't true for recent cards, they don't even do 2d without firmware loaded |
| 17:05.50 | somiaj | ahh, I don't keep up with radeon as I'm a nvidia user |
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| 17:06.43 | wsl38 | for some reason linux-firmware-nonfree is installed on my system. if i don't have any of the hardware mentioned in the list, i can remove it, right? |
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| 17:07.40 | Brigo | wsl38, right |
| 17:07.40 | somiaj | wsl38: correct |
| 17:08.10 | somiaj | if I recally correctly most of the firwmare is for radeon cards in that package. |
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| 17:08.11 | wsl38 | ok. i don't recognize anything in the list |
| 17:08.19 | somiaj | a few other things here and there |
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| 17:08.55 | Amarande | hrm, interesting, x.org says southern islands is supported and makes no mention of a secondary firmware blob, just a radeon module in the kernel and the radeon driver in X |
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| 17:09.26 | towo` | Amarande, firmware is allways needed |
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| 17:09.33 | somiaj | Amarande: correct xorg uses the kms radeon driver, and then the driver wants the firmware. usually a warning when the radeon module is loaded if the firwmare is not found. |
| 17:09.39 | tremon | Amarande: x.org as in the upstream freedesktop site? Yeah, they assume that the firmware is installed by default on every distro |
| 17:09.46 | rasc | upstream doesn't separate them |
| 17:09.46 | Amarande | towo`: usually GPUs have the firmware burnt into the card EPROM, no? |
| 17:09.47 | towo` | Amarande, without firmware, hardware acceleration is not possible |
| 17:09.55 | towo` | Amarande, no |
| 17:10.05 | somiaj | Amarande: it is actually extracted from the binary blobs I belive. |
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| 17:10.10 | Amarande | or did AMD decide to adopt the "dual firmware" schema where there's some in the EPROM and some loaded at host (which seems like a horribly bad thing to do) |
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| 17:10.26 | somiaj | they contain the firmware and the drivers to talk to it. the free driver talks to the same firmware, but still needs it. |
| 17:10.37 | towo` | and btw, radeonsi needs glamor too for propper work |
| 17:10.41 | Amarande | without basic firmware, after all, a GPU would not even be recognised by the BIOS |
| 17:10.49 | tremon | Amarande: the EPROM "firmware" is the vesa/bios compatibility engine, not the 3d microcode |
| 17:10.53 | meek_geek | yo |
| 17:10.59 | Aeiri | is there any CLI tool to read text/calendar attachments? (using mutt) |
| 17:11.24 | Amarande | bleh. pretty sure nvidia doesn't do it that way, wonder why amd started doing it |
| 17:11.26 | BeBoo | Hello all. I had added jessie to my sources.list and did apt-get dist-upgrade which upgraded a ton of packages. I didn't realize this until I saw that several versions were RCs. Is there a way to "dist-downgrade" back to wheezy? Probably not a good idea anyway, huh? |
| 17:11.31 | Amarande | unless it's got something to do with APUs, perhaps |
| 17:11.46 | Amarande | since 6000-series was when APU IGPs started being a thing |
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| 17:12.01 | towo` | Amarande, nouveau generates the needed firmware on the fly |
| 17:12.05 | Amarande | BeBoo: no, there's no really simple way to dist-downgrade |
| 17:12.08 | somiaj | BeBoo: nope, upgrade is a one way street. The system is not designed to downgrade. |
| 17:12.15 | somiaj | !tell BeBoo about partial downgrade |
| 17:12.17 | Amarande | BeBoo: for the most part though jessie is reasonable for normal day to day use |
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| 17:12.30 | Amarande | whether you'd want to use it for mission critical stuff is another matter, but it's reasonable for desktop |
| 17:12.31 | somiaj | BeBoo: but if you ran an upgrade with jessie sources you are probablay at a point where if you want wheezy a reinstall is best. |
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| 17:13.02 | BeBoo | Amarande: It's a production web server. It installed PHP 5.6RC2 which broke my authentication (not sure exactly why or how). |
| 17:13.02 | Amarande | stuff might break, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, an important part of the linux skillset is to learn how to fix stuff when it breaks |
| 17:13.13 | Amarande | BeBoo: ah, ouch |
| 17:13.25 | BeBoo | Yeah, I might just do a reinstall. |
| 17:13.27 | meek_geek | yo |
| 17:13.53 | paul_grozav | Is there any way to upgrade glibc to 2.19 on debian 7.5 ? |
| 17:13.53 | Amarande | (also a nice part of the linux skillset is that learning how to fix stuff when it breaks is actually relevant ... I only wish it were similarly relevant when I have to use Windows :() |
| 17:14.33 | meek_geek | paul_grozav, why do you want to do it ? For newer apps ? |
| 17:14.38 | tremon | paul_grozav: no |
| 17:14.47 | rasc | ,v glibc |
| 17:14.49 | judd | No package named 'glibc' was found in i386. |
| 17:14.53 | rasc | ,v libc |
| 17:14.54 | judd | No package named 'libc' was found in i386. |
| 17:15.00 | tremon | ,v libc6 |
| 17:15.02 | judd | Package: libc6 on i386 -- squeeze: 2.11.3-4; wheezy: 2.13-38+deb7u2; wheezy-proposed-updates: 2.13-38+deb7u3; wheezy-security: 2.13-38+deb7u3; jessie: 2.19-7; sid: 2.19-7 |
| 17:15.08 | Shadow_7 | paul_grozav: you can upgrade past 2.13 by using testing or unstable |
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| 17:16.22 | Shadow_7 | Which is why I run testing atm. OpenGL only works with java apps if you're >= 2.14 on glibc. |
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| 17:17.20 | somiaj | BeBoo: you dont' want to run testing on a server (unless security is not important to you). At this point you may want to just backup and reinstall stable. |
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| 17:18.42 | wsl38 | is the package 'unrar' neccessary? vrms says it's non-free |
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| 17:19.14 | jmcnaught | BeBoo: I also recommend that you start using a test and/or staging server (possibly a VM on your local desktop) so that you can test this sort of stuff out on a non-production server first. |
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| 17:20.41 | rasc | why isn't the bot judd in #debian-bots? |
| 17:20.53 | paul_grozav | I need the latest version glibc 2.19 because I need to use new feature that my CPU has, (Hardware Lock Elision) is only supported in glibc >= 2.18. So, Shadow_7: using the test/unstable repos I can get the latest version? Does the repo contain glibc 2.19? What's it's URL? thanks |
| 17:21.29 | wsl38 | lol, url |
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| 17:22.39 | somiaj | paul_grozav: yes jessie/sid contains libc6 2.19, But you will have to fully upgrade your system to testing or unstable. This will be buggy but many do this on desktop systems (it is strongly not suggested on server systems) |
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| 17:23.11 | somiaj | paul_grozav: many run testing/unstable just fine (I prefer sid myself) but be prepared to fix thigns when they break. |
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| 17:23.36 | paul_grozav | It's a development machine, so it's fine |
| 17:23.43 | rasc | dpkg: tell paul_grozav -about wheezy->jessie |
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| 17:24.03 | paul_grozav | thanks |
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| 17:27.26 | shred805 | howdy |
| 17:28.00 | mrtux | hello. i have a really old laptop i'd like to install debian on. it loads the installer but it can't seem to load packages from the CD |
| 17:28.27 | shred805 | try usb? |
| 17:28.27 | mrtux | should i put the installer iso on a usb and use a floppy disk to boot the usb? |
| 17:28.52 | shred805 | can you boot to usb in the bios? |
| 17:28.55 | mrtux | no |
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| 17:29.04 | mrtux | there's this cd i have that lets you boot from usb drives |
| 17:29.06 | fdascccaCWAQC | mindstorm: how are you? |
| 17:29.11 | shred805 | try that then |
| 17:29.16 | mrtux | ok |
| 17:29.39 | shred805 | you need to create a usb install. you cant just put the iso on there |
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| 17:29.47 | shred805 | if u didnt know that |
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| 17:29.50 | mrtux | shred805: yeah i know |
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| 17:30.20 | mrtux | this debian cd i have was able to install on 2 other computers so i know it works... so usb seems like the best bet |
| 17:30.47 | mrtux | thanks |
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| 17:31.30 | Shadow_7 | You can also do a debootstrap install from a livedisc. |
| 17:31.57 | alves84 | you welcome |
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| 17:34.10 | asterismo | hi people |
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| 17:35.12 | asterismo | i have a Sony Vaio pocket (P series) netbook running Debian 7 wheezy. Sound and suspend works fine but graphic driver fro poulsbo chipset GMA500 make the screen flickers once in a while |
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| 17:35.43 | asterismo | i tried kernel 3.14 from backports and graphic driver inproved very much, but sound and suspend do not work at all |
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| 17:35.50 | asterismo | any ideas? |
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| 17:38.28 | Shadow_7 | compare the lsmod output from the old and new kernels? |
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| 17:43.43 | asterismo | Shadow_7: ok... will try that |
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| 17:44.19 | asterismo | maybe i have to reconfigure some package... right¿? |
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| 17:44.22 | eswe | Hi. My computer is running very slow. top shows that the CPU usage is going up and down for Waiting. It does this very often. |
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| 17:46.34 | Shadow_7 | asterismo: idk... perhaps some kms stuff that blacklisted modules you actually need. Did that to my radeon driver once. |
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| 17:47.05 | Shadow_7 | eswe: is there a gui involved? perhaps you're using the framebuffer or vesa drivers. |
| 17:47.33 | eswe | Ah, I think so |
| 17:48.17 | Amarande | and hey, we can always take comfort in the fact that at least linux never screws anything up with drivers as badly as Windows does :) |
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| 17:48.39 | Shadow_7 | except ubuntu that screws up the bootloader |
| 17:48.43 | Amarande | I was just settled into Windows 7 for about two weeks, then decided to go back to Debian because I'd ALREADY managed to break Windows in a pretty much non recoverable way with current hardware. :S |
| 17:48.59 | Amarande | as in I would literally have to go buy a new keyboard and/or mouse to fix windows. bleh on that. |
| 17:49.11 | equex | tell that to catalyst |
| 17:49.22 | Amarande | equex: catalyst isn't really that great on windows either |
| 17:49.32 | Shadow_7 | My vista wouldn't install sp1, but it'd try for four hours every boot. |
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| 17:50.38 | Amarande | apparently, I deleted the usb controller (which is a typical measure in many windows situations when there's usb problems) and it failed to re-recognise it like it ought to have, so since my keyboard and mouse are both USB I was locked out |
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| 17:51.01 | Amarande | this is not a problem on linux. this is not even possible to be a problem on linux, unless you actively took considerable steps to break it, like recompile a new kernel without usb & then delete your old ones, heh |
| 17:51.50 | slinnky | who the hell deletes their usb controller in windows? |
| 17:51.56 | slinnky | and who compiles a kernel without usb? |
| 17:52.13 | Amarande | slinnky: nobody compiles a kernel without usb, it's just an example of how much effort you'd have to go to to break linux in similar fashion |
| 17:52.20 | slinnky | ah |
| 17:52.31 | slinnky | still loves his PS/2 keyboard |
| 17:52.34 | Amarande | as for deleting the usb controller in windows. it's a commonly advised thing to try when there's an issue with the usb ports/devices |
| 17:52.44 | slinnky | ah |
| 17:52.49 | Amarande | it's *supposed* to re-recognise and reinstall the driver for the controller when you reboot, but apparently it failed to do so |
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| 17:53.00 | slinnky | damn |
| 17:53.16 | Amarande | oh well. apparently linux and I are meant for each other, especially on intel based machines |
| 17:53.24 | Amarande | for some reason I never have issues with windows on amd based machines, but always do on intel :S |
| 17:53.26 | slinnky | I'm a big fan of linux |
| 17:53.37 | slinnky | is AMD still around? |
| 17:53.42 | Mousey | who? |
| 17:53.47 | slinnky | they were the shit back in the day when I was building my own desktops |
| 17:54.15 | slinnky | It's kind of lame that you can't really assemble your own laptop |
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| 17:55.11 | Amarande | Yeah, AMD's still around. I actually tend to recommend them for most people unless they really feel they need the power of Intel machines, because I find it's usually a lot less hassle to build AMD (unless your mobo catches fire, thankfully I didn't have that model though) |
| 17:55.27 | Amarande | tbh, in the end, it seems like the only reason I built this haswell machine was hubris :S |
| 17:55.30 | Shadow_7 | if you don't game, amd is great |
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| 17:55.54 | slinnky | I never like the intel celeron |
| 17:56.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1458] by debhelper |
| 17:56.01 | slinnky | a.k.a. "celery" |
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| 18:05.18 | DammitJim | is keytool part of a deb? |
| 18:06.20 | Shadow_7 | DammitJim: apt-file find keytool |
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| 18:06.59 | dogosoft__ | hi |
| 18:07.01 | Shadow_7 | seems to be part of some jre stuff. aka java runtime environment. gcj / compiler... and openjdk-7-jre-headless |
| 18:07.35 | DammitJim | found it! |
| 18:07.38 | Shadow_7 | at least on debian jessie armel on an RPi |
| 18:07.41 | DammitJim | I didn't have it in my path |
| 18:08.03 | dogosoft__ | my question |
| 18:08.04 | dogosoft__ | Image attributes processor v1.0.25 - error copying media/catalog/product/l/d/ld1010105.jpg : source error,Cannot fetch http://www.ledbox.es/images/modelos/grande/LD1010105.jpg :No URL set! |
| 18:08.25 | dogosoft__ | in server local ok, in server online this error |
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| 18:09.15 | dogosoft__ | I do not know what file to modify q copy pictures imported from a url on. csv |
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| 18:10.41 | asterismo | Shadow_7: i inspected lsmod in kernel 3.2 and 3.14... here is the 3.2 lsmod: http://paste.debian.net/109958/ and this is the 3.14 lsmod: http://paste.debian.net/109959/ |
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| 18:11.09 | homecable | hello i can find the nvidia settings in debian jessie |
| 18:11.15 | homecable | i cant* |
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| 18:12.07 | dogosoft__ | can someone help? |
| 18:12.29 | Shadow_7 | asterismo: just diff them |
| 18:12.48 | rasc | ,v nvidia-settings |
| 18:12.49 | judd | Package: nvidia-settings on i386 -- squeeze/contrib: 195.36.24-1; squeeze-backports/contrib: 295.49-1~bpo60+1+b1; wheezy/contrib: 304.88-1; wheezy-backports/contrib: 319.72-1~bpo70+1 |
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| 18:13.19 | rasc | you can't find it because it isn't there |
| 18:13.32 | heurist | homecable: I think there is an issue with nvidia in jessie at the moment, you are not running stable, expect breakages. |
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| 18:13.43 | dogosoft__ | for me? |
| 18:13.53 | asterismo | but gma500 modules appear enabled in both kernels... |
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| 18:14.06 | asterismo | Shadow_7: ok... i'm looking how to do it |
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| 18:15.21 | jmcnaught | asterismo: gma500 aka poulsbo kind of sucks on Linux. The ArchWiki has some troubleshooting tips that might help you (you're probably already using pm-utils like it suggests): https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/poulsbo#Fix_suspend |
| 18:18.12 | Shadow_7 | asterismo: diff file1 file2 |
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| 18:19.32 | asterismo | Shadow_7: jmcnaught: here is the diff file: http://paste.debian.net/109962/ |
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| 18:19.59 | asterismo | i do not quite see it clear since it is very much text... |
| 18:20.13 | asterismo | i managed to highlight it in Kate text editor |
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| 18:20.48 | jmcnaught | asterismo: yeah that's not very helpful really. It might be better if you used cut or awk or something to just use the first column of text from each file before doing the diff. Did you check the troubleshooting on the ArchWiki? |
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| 18:22.45 | Shadow_7 | asterismo: perhaps run each through sort first |
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| 18:23.17 | Shadow_7 | snd-hda-intel seems active on both though so your sound should work. |
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| 18:23.40 | Shadow_7 | it may have gotten a different index in /proc/asound/cards and no longer the default card |
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| 18:23.57 | Shadow_7 | defaults.pcm.card 1 |
| 18:24.02 | Shadow_7 | in ~/.asoundrc |
| 18:24.26 | Shadow_7 | or pavucontrol if you use pulseaudio. Also check the mixer levels, may have gotten muted after update |
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| 18:26.36 | secris | I was browsing the G+ community earlier and it has inspired me to give a vanilla debian install a go |
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| 18:35.45 | uwjesq_ | Hello. I want the directory to link to the first ln -s ./blenderToXmlExport/ ~/.config/blender/2.71/scripts/addons/toGlPortalXml/ |
| 18:35.54 | uwjesq_ | Why doesn't this work? |
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| 18:36.04 | uwjesq_ | Tried a few variations of it already. |
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| 18:37.22 | rasc | uwjesq_: wich is the one that exists already? |
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| 18:38.29 | uwjesq_ | rasc: First parameter. |
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| 18:39.28 | rasc | the second one doesn't exist? |
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| 18:40.17 | uwjesq_ | rasc: Yes. |
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| 18:41.27 | rasc | what is the error are you getting? |
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| 18:42.28 | uwjesq_ | Directory not found â..../.config/blender/2.71/scripts/addons/toGlPortalXml/â |
| 18:42.55 | rasc | it's trying t create a link inside the second argument |
| 18:44.15 | uwjesq_ | So I link to one directory below and when I try to ls that directory I get "to many levels in symbolic link" |
| 18:44.23 | uwjesq_ | I think this is just broken. |
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| 18:44.35 | uwjesq_ | The most simple things don't work. |
| 18:44.44 | jmcnaught | uwjesq_: have you tried without the trailing slash on the target? |
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| 18:46.08 | rasc | uwjesq_: unix is user friendly, it is just picky with who it's friends are |
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| 18:47.01 | uwjesq_ | jmcnaught: I get a file in the directory then. |
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| 18:47.23 | uwjesq_ | Well, I am doing what it says in the manpage and all I get is dung. |
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| 18:47.44 | fdascccaCWAQC | you're doing it wrong evidentelly |
| 18:47.57 | *** join/#debian VonNaturAustreVe (~v0rtex@unaffiliated/vonnaturaustreve) |
| 18:47.59 | fdascccaCWAQC | or the manual is wrong |
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| 18:48.16 | rasc | the manpage is really terse, you need a more introductory course |
| 18:48.58 | jmcnaught | uwjesq_: what do you mean by a file? if the source is a directory, the target symlink will point to that directory. Try without trailing slash on source and target |
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| 18:50.01 | heurist | uwjesq_: also try using the full path for both directories, and make sure all the parent directories exist. |
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| 18:51.22 | uwjesq_ | heurist: Full path worked. Thank you. |
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| 18:58.12 | rasc | np |
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| 19:10.54 | nell | ssh is giving me error |
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| 19:11.15 | nell | No proxy is running on ports 8118 or 8123! Please start Privoxy or Polipo! |
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| 19:11.18 | nell | connection then closes |
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| 19:11.25 | Telba | ALguem ae? |
| 19:11.38 | israel_ | sdough: |
| 19:11.46 | Telba | ALguem ae fala portugues? |
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| 19:12.27 | jmcnaught | !pt |
| 19:12.27 | dpkg | Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt ) |
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| 19:14.00 | rasc | nell: what is the command you're running and what are you trying to do? |
| 19:14.46 | nell | im running ssh command to another comp on network |
| 19:14.58 | nell | just plain old ssh |
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| 19:16.36 | jmcnaught | Telba: keep it in the channel please |
| 19:16.43 | rasc | does this usually work or are you trying something different? |
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| 19:18.38 | jhutchins | !pt |
| 19:18.38 | dpkg | Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt ) |
| 19:18.43 | jhutchins | Gah, sorry. |
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| 19:19.14 | jhutchins | nell: You are configured to use a proxy for ssh, but it isn't runnin gwhere expected. |
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| 19:21.16 | nell | where do i access the configurations |
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| 19:21.25 | nell | i dont see anything in /etc/ssh/sshd_config |
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| 19:21.41 | rryoumaa | i have group mail in /etc/groups. i get "Exim configuration error in line 664 of /var/lib/exim4/config.autogenerated: group mail was not found". all i found on google was somebody saying he replaced mail with 8 to work around it. how can i fix this error? |
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| 19:22.56 | heurist | nell: looks like tsocks or some such thing is hijacking you connection. |
| 19:23.35 | Spec | rryoumaa: looks like they replace the 'name' with the group id. "id mail" will tell you the gid (8 probably) |
| 19:24.09 | rryoumaa | Spec: right. but i don't want to hardcode just to work around a bug i do not understand. |
| 19:24.17 | LtL | nell: look in /etc/ssh/ssh_config |
| 19:24.28 | nell | tsocks isnt installed |
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| 19:25.02 | rryoumaa | Spec: i figure there is a reason for the error, and hardcoding would just break things if the gid ever changes. |
| 19:25.39 | heurist | nell: also look in ~/.ssh/config |
| 19:26.47 | Spec | rryoumaa: hmm. |
| 19:26.55 | nell | AHH |
| 19:26.59 | nell | Nothing unusual in either! |
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| 19:27.15 | Spec | rryoumaa: if you use puppet+facter it wouldn't necessary be 'hardcoded', and i wouldn't expect that gid to ever change |
| 19:27.23 | Spec | rryoumaa: but i don't see any reason it wouldn't work with group name... |
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| 19:28.12 | rryoumaa | dunno what puppet or facter are, but yeah, it is probably indicating a bug worth paying attention to |
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| 19:28.25 | Spec | rryoumaa: configuration management software |
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| 19:29.04 | Spec | rryoumaa: what debian version? |
| 19:29.15 | rryoumaa | wheezy |
| 19:29.18 | rryoumaa | up to date |
| 19:29.25 | oo_miguel | I wonder where to find the paramters I can use for midnight commanders, user defined listing mode. |
| 19:29.27 | Spec | rryoumaa: my /var/lib/exim4/config.autogenerated uses "group = mail" and throws no such errors. but i am on jessie |
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| 19:29.57 | Spec | rryoumaa: what does "id mail" return to you? |
| 19:30.10 | rasc | Spec: most of the time, it is overkill. And isn't it not free and not gratis? |
| 19:30.51 | Spec | rasc: comes from debian main? |
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| 19:30.58 | Spec | so i assume it's free and gratis? |
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| 19:31.18 | rasc | Spec: http://puppetlabs.com/download-puppet-enterprise |
| 19:31.23 | Spec | rasc: it might be overkill, i don't know. probably not overkill if you're running your own mail server |
| 19:31.28 | Spec | puppet enterprise is different, and nonfree, yes. |
| 19:31.43 | *** join/#debian boratynskikamil (~boratynsk@109.231.38.149) |
| 19:31.47 | Spec | http://puppetlabs.com/puppet/puppet-open-source |
| 19:32.11 | nell | i cant even ssh locally |
| 19:32.13 | nell | localhost |
| 19:32.25 | rasc | oh, I never looked in the archive, only did duck searchs and they don't advertise this! |
| 19:32.31 | Spec | rasc: i wonder why ;) |
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| 19:33.15 | heurist | nell: something is telling your ssh to try connect out through a proxy (socks) and that is not running. |
| 19:34.15 | heurist | nell: try using /usr/bin/ssh to make sure you are not using a script or alias. |
| 19:34.58 | nell | im not |
| 19:35.01 | nell | same thing |
| 19:35.06 | Spec | or check your environment variables |
| 19:36.06 | Spec | i'm not sure if ssh pays attention to any of them though. |
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| 19:38.00 | nell | nothing unusual onmy process explorer |
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| 19:39.04 | rryoumaa | Spec: uid=8(mail) gid=8(mail) groups=8(mail), as expected |
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| 19:39.12 | heurist | nell: try running: touch /tmp/empty && /usr/bin/ssh -F /tmp/empty localhost |
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| 19:39.18 | Spec | nell: did you check /etc/ssh/ssh_config btw? sshd_config is for the server, not client |
| 19:39.35 | Spec | rryoumaa: hrmm. |
| 19:39.46 | nell | yes Spec |
| 19:39.48 | nell | nothing unusual. |
| 19:40.07 | nell | i think |
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| 19:40.33 | nell | both vanilla |
| 19:41.00 | Spec | nell: and "/usr/bin/ssh localhost" gives you this error? |
| 19:41.07 | nell | yes |
| 19:41.20 | heurist | nell: we are not sure what you think is "usual", pastebin the configs and your environment after making sure they are safe for the world to see. |
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| 19:41.39 | Spec | nell: and nothing in ~/.ssh/config ? :( |
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| 19:42.01 | punkgeek | how to encrypting root partition with LUKS? |
| 19:42.04 | nell | maybe its a package i installed |
| 19:42.17 | Spec | but that package would need to configure ssh somehow... ;) |
| 19:42.23 | heurist | nell: ssh -F some-empty-file will make ssh ignore all config files. |
| 19:42.42 | *** join/#debian symptom (~symptom@unaffiliated/symptom) |
| 19:42.53 | Spec | so ssh -F /dev/null localhost |
| 19:42.54 | Spec | :p |
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| 19:43.41 | punkgeek | nobody know? :D |
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| 19:43.57 | mistnim | hello, my netbook boot stops with this screen: https://imgur.com/8hvkfQg any ideas what it is? |
| 19:44.03 | nell | hm |
| 19:44.07 | nell | obfsproxy is installed |
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| 19:44.20 | jmcnaught | punkgeek: the easiest way is do to it during the installer. Otherwise you need to have a spare drive you can move stuff to while it's encrypting / |
| 19:44.22 | heurist | nell: well that would be my first try, |
| 19:44.28 | nell | that wasnt it tho |
| 19:44.35 | nell | heurist i tested that |
| 19:44.37 | nell | my configs are right |
| 19:44.45 | heurist | nell: not sure I believe you. (: |
| 19:44.47 | nell | there's a wrapper that i might of installed |
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| 19:44.59 | nell | that is trying to route through proxy |
| 19:45.04 | Amarande | though the real question is, is there a way to readily encrypt / without having to enter a passphrase every time you boot? |
| 19:45.11 | heurist | nell: exactly |
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| 19:45.32 | Amarande | although I guess that kind of defeats the point of encrypting / :S |
| 19:45.40 | fryguy | Amarande: you can require a usb key to be in the machine at boot |
| 19:45.46 | punkgeek | jmcnaught: have you any link address to do this work? |
| 19:45.47 | fryguy | with a keyfile on it |
| 19:46.00 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1473] by debhelper |
| 19:46.03 | Amarande | tbh, I'm not entirely sure how useful encrypting / is, by comparison to encrypting say /home or backup drives |
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| 19:46.23 | rasc | punkgeek: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=debian+cryptsetup |
| 19:46.29 | Amarande | oh, the horror, someone might steal your stock debian packages they could have just downloaded for free from debian.org ... the horror, the horror |
| 19:46.47 | Spec | nell: md5sum /usr/bin/ssh, and compare with hash in /var/lib/dpkg/info/openssh-client.md5sums ? |
| 19:46.57 | punkgeek | :D |
| 19:46.57 | Spec | Amarande: well, /etc can contain important informatino. |
| 19:47.00 | Amarande | I guess they might get your home wifi password or be able to crack /etc/shadow if it is weak, but for a) you can easily change that and b) you shouldn't be using weak passwords :) |
| 19:47.07 | jmcnaught | punkgeek: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s03.html.en#di-partition section 6.3.3.6 talks about encryption |
| 19:47.22 | punkgeek | thank you |
| 19:47.45 | Spec | Amarande: and /var contains important information, as well. |
| 19:47.45 | Amarande | as a rule, if your password gets cracked based on the encrypted pw being stolen, that means you had a too weak pw anyway |
| 19:48.03 | Amarande | Spec: hmm, on a modern pc, how much? |
| 19:48.24 | Amarande | that was more of a thing back in the days when people used POP3, fetchmail, and an MTA to acquire personal mail on a regular basis |
| 19:48.35 | Spec | Amarande: it really depends what you use your computer for. |
| 19:48.42 | Amarande | but nowadays with IMAP and gmail and such being the norm it seems far less so |
| 19:48.47 | nell | how about I try strace |
| 19:48.54 | Spec | nell: i was thinking about that |
| 19:48.56 | Amarande | I'm trying to think what else sensitive might be in /var for most people besides mail |
| 19:49.04 | Spec | Amarande: databases are stored in /var |
| 19:49.13 | Spec | local mail, if you do that. |
| 19:49.18 | nell | okay |
| 19:49.22 | nell | time to parse output lol |
| 19:49.43 | Spec | Amarande: for most people it probably doesn't matter...but most people also don't want FDE for whatever reason |
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| 19:50.00 | Spec | nell: did you check md5sum on ssh? i don't see how it could be wrapped if it's the ssh binary from the ssh package |
| 19:50.27 | Amarande | but yeah, as for passwords, the usual remedy is "use stronger passwords" ... even shadow passwords seem like they shouldn't be necessary nowadays for many usecases :) |
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| 19:51.12 | Amarande | because, ideally, you're using strong enough passwords that /etc/passwd can be lifted and be useless |
| 19:51.39 | mistnim | hello I can add this: the boot stops but it's not a panic, I can enter rescue mode and login as root, is there something I can do? |
| 19:51.53 | Spec | nell: you're not doing weird things with iptables, right? |
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| 19:53.41 | heurist | Spec: I am pretty sure it is obfsproxy or sometning like that doing an LD_PRELOAD on the ssh binary. |
| 19:53.42 | Amarande | now for backup drives on the other hand I can see FDE being worth it eminently |
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| 19:54.02 | Amarande | so an attacker can't steal your backup disk and then use it to restore to his machine |
| 19:55.40 | rasc | Spec: you sure he is using debian? |
| 19:56.38 | rasc | mistnim: sure there is, but we need more information to help you. |
| 19:57.39 | Amarande | mind you the question with encrypted backup is where the optimal place to store the key is |
| 19:57.52 | Spec | rasc: no |
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| 19:57.58 | Amarande | because encrypted backup only makes sense if you have the key stored separately so you can restore it when you need to restore it on another machine |
| 19:58.12 | rasc | Amarande: can you move this to offtopic? |
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| 19:58.36 | mistnim | rasc: it stops here https://imgur.com/8hvkfQg |
| 19:58.52 | Spec | heurist: nell: if heurist is right, strace should show that |
| 19:59.03 | Spec | it should show the library loading up, right? |
| 19:59.05 | mistnim | what other ifnormation hyou need? |
| 19:59.49 | nell | I'm checking for any funny recently installed packages |
| 20:00.04 | nell | what about IPTABLES would stand out |
| 20:00.09 | Spec | nell: /var/log/dpkg.log* |
| 20:00.24 | Spec | nell: anything mentioning port 22 :P, i think heurist is probably closer to correct though |
| 20:00.26 | rasc | mistnim: boot again, but before grub does its thing, press 'e' and delete 'quiet' |
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| 20:00.44 | jmcnaught | nell: does this problem happen with all remote hosts or just the one? Have you tried using ssh as another user on the local computer? |
| 20:00.47 | mistnim | rasc: ok |
| 20:00.56 | heurist | nell: an iptables issue would not give you that specific an error. |
| 20:01.14 | Spec | that's why i was hesitating mentioning it :( |
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| 20:02.25 | mistnim | rasc: is it ok if I send you the dmesg content when I am logged in as root from rescue mode? |
| 20:03.08 | nell | its on both my debian machines |
| 20:03.15 | nell | which are kinda similar |
| 20:03.22 | nell | very similar infact |
| 20:04.14 | rasc | maybe booting in rescue won't hit the problem? seeing that it works... for the debug we need the real thing. |
| 20:05.57 | mistnim | rasc: this is the message when continuing with ctrl-d instead of putting the pass in rescue mode (I guess it's not quiet) https://imgur.com/MfrIvE9 |
| 20:06.00 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1464] by debhelper |
| 20:06.41 | mistnim | I send you this because I had already made it, but if you need it I will reboot without quiet |
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| 20:07.05 | rasc | mistnim: those seens fine. You still have quiet, your screen will be filled when you don't have it. |
| 20:07.30 | mistnim | right |
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| 20:08.18 | [TheFlash] | hi, will there be any way to not use systemd once jessie is released? |
| 20:08.23 | ontae | hi ... anyone may help me with xenbridge and e100 (intel pro 100) ... dhcp do not assign an adress ... nic / eth works with "normal" debian kernel |
| 20:08.37 | dec4n | hi everybody! |
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| 20:10.05 | [TheFlash] | will sysvinit still be available as an alternative? |
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| 20:11.06 | heurist | [TheFlash]: I have gotten over my aversion to systemd, try it for a bit and you may find you like it. It does actually make sense. |
| 20:11.33 | dec4n | my question: I have a debian release from 2013-1-15 for a Compulab board, /etc/debian_version states it is debian 6.0, in the sources.list file is by default: http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ sid main.. |
| 20:12.02 | dec4n | should I update to 6.0.9 and change the repo to ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main... ?? |
| 20:12.14 | [TheFlash] | heurist: i've never even gotten over my aversion to polkit and consolekit... i don't want programs becoming root without explicitly asking me for a password every time |
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| 20:12.32 | Amarande | [TheFlash]: presumably the sysvinit package will continue to be offered |
| 20:12.39 | heurist | [TheFlash]: agreed, nothing to do with systemd though. |
| 20:13.04 | Cpuroast | dec4n: you should be on squeeze-lts |
| 20:13.06 | Amarande | [TheFlash]: though its usefulness may start to become limited, because I know some other commonly used things are moving to integrating with systemd |
| 20:13.13 | [TheFlash] | doesn't systemd implement polkit/consolekit/some kind of libpam layer too? |
| 20:13.19 | Amarande | in particular, if you ever want to move to wayland, you basically *have to* use systemd with that, it won't work with sysvinit |
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| 20:13.22 | Cpuroast | dec4n: https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Using |
| 20:13.49 | Amarande | I get the impression that systemd is likely to get chosen for more complex usecases like a desktop, while sysvinit will be for choice for more lightweight things |
| 20:14.12 | heurist | [TheFlash]: systemd implements a lot of things (too many) but they mostly opt-in and make sense in a way too. |
| 20:14.21 | [TheFlash] | well, i for one want my desktop to be lightweight |
| 20:14.28 | [TheFlash] | and secur |
| 20:14.30 | [TheFlash] | e |
| 20:14.40 | rasc | systemd is the choice for many lightweith things, you just need to compile a lot of stuff out |
| 20:14.46 | nell | im reinstalling ssh server |
| 20:14.51 | Amarande | [TheFlash]: but yeah, the only thing that will probably stop anyone from using systemd is the other packages they use |
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| 20:15.13 | dec4n | Cpuroast, but squeeze-lts only support i386 and amd64, and my board is armel arch |
| 20:15.31 | Amarande | i.e., some packages may depend on it (wayland does, and apparently GNOME's testing branch does atm but that's got more to do with the fact that they're testing Wayland integration atm, they've said the next release branch of GNOME will not be systemd dependent) |
| 20:15.35 | heurist | nell: you sure? does not sound like a server issue, unless you are only connecting to servers you installed and may have "fiddled" with |
| 20:15.44 | Cpuroast | dec4n: oh, then you are out of luck, you should consider an upgrade to wheezy |
| 20:15.53 | Cpuroast | dec4n: as squeeze is no longer being updated |
| 20:15.59 | Amarande | pretty sure there's three choices of init in debian now, upstart, systemd, and sysvinit, actually |
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| 20:16.41 | Amarande | which is nice ... the thing I had worried about with systemd would be whether it would require init scripts to be redone, but this is not the case, which means init procedure wise it's interchangeable which eliminates a lot of the worry |
| 20:16.41 | dec4n | Cpuroast, problem is I need to use the distro that came with the board, in this case squeeze 6.0 |
| 20:16.44 | nell | i cant even ssh localhost heurist |
| 20:16.50 | nell | it will close connection |
| 20:16.52 | skilz | What can I use a 486dx for? |
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| 20:17.08 | Amarande | skilz: install freedos on it for retro gaming, I'd say |
| 20:17.09 | dec4n | Cpuroast, should I change sid to squeeze in the .list? |
| 20:17.12 | [TheFlash] | Amarande: but debian compiles packages in such a way that they depend on systemd even though normally they wouldn't |
| 20:17.16 | Cpuroast | dec4n: ah, then yah switch everything to squeeze |
| 20:17.24 | Cpuroast | and update it as far as you can |
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| 20:17.28 | heurist | nell: localhost is one of your machines, try connect to ssh new@sdf.org |
| 20:17.40 | mistnim | rasc: I don't see any quiet |
| 20:17.42 | [TheFlash] | Amarande: for example mate-panel |
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| 20:17.54 | Amarande | ahhh, I'm not very familiar with MATE outside of Mint |
| 20:18.00 | *** join/#debian cap3lla (~cap3lla@unaffiliated/cap3lla) |
| 20:18.13 | Amarande | also MATE is still pretty new to debian I think ... pretty sure it missed the cutoff for wheezy so it's only in jessie and sid |
| 20:18.32 | skilz | Amarande, I ment more for a linux application. |
| 20:18.34 | [TheFlash] | Amarande: guess i'll have to switch to gentoo once jessie is released, over there i can just do USE="-systemd" and done |
| 20:18.38 | skilz | Too slow for firewall? |
| 20:18.44 | dec4n | Cpuroast, keeping 6.0 instead 6.0.9 lts right? |
| 20:18.48 | Amarande | skilz: I suppose a very very lightweight firewall or NAS, but 486DX seems a little too ancient for that |
| 20:19.05 | Cpuroast | dec4n: 6.0.9 is just squeeze updated updated |
| 20:19.10 | Cpuroast | dec4n: no difference |
| 20:19.16 | skilz | Maybe I will use it for an IRC terminal in my kitchen or toilet |
| 20:19.27 | Amarande | maybe if you're just using it for backups and you don't care how long it takes to backup and restore, though even there you'll probably hit some issues, mostly centering around drive size barries |
| 20:19.29 | Amarande | *barriers |
| 20:19.37 | mistnim | rasc: no wait |
| 20:19.37 | Cpuroast | dec4n: you could have an initial of squeeze 6.0, do a full update and you'd end up with 6.0.9 |
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| 20:19.40 | rasc | mistnim: are you loking at this: http://blog.siliconforks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/ubuntu-out-of-range-grub-nomodeset.png it has to have a quiet, because your kernel is quiet. |
| 20:19.53 | mistnim | yes |
| 20:19.57 | mistnim | rasc: yes it has |
| 20:20.04 | Amarande | keep in mind that on a 486DX I'm pretty sure all the boot files for linux need to be in the first 528MB of the hard drive ... I'm not sure how small modern hard drives let you make partitions |
| 20:20.22 | [TheFlash] | Amarande: why? that has nothing to do with the CPU |
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| 20:20.35 | [TheFlash] | Amarande: old BIOSes require that |
| 20:20.39 | Amarande | [TheFlash]: because any motherboard for a CPU that old is going to suffer from the original CHS based drive size barrier |
| 20:20.42 | dec4n | Cpuroast, that is something like apt-get dist-full-upgrade? |
| 20:20.46 | jmcnaught | [TheFlash]: I'm pretty sure using sysvinit will still be an option in Jessie. Debian's not dropping the kFreeBSD or HURD kernels as far as I know. You might not be able to use Gnome which seems to be going full systemd, but other desktops and WMs should still be an option. |
| 20:20.53 | nell | heurist |
| 20:20.54 | Cpuroast | dec4n: not even |
| 20:20.56 | nell | it works |
| 20:21.08 | Cpuroast | dec4n: apt-get update && apt-get upgrade |
| 20:21.22 | heurist | nell: so it is your server then, good to know. |
| 20:21.24 | Amarande | [TheFlash]: pretty sure it wasn't till Pentium MMX or so that it was common for BIOS's not to suffer from the 528MB barrier |
| 20:21.44 | *** join/#debian nicdev` (~user@kilimanjaro.rafpepa.com) |
| 20:21.55 | [TheFlash] | jmcnaught: i just hope mate-panel will be recompiled so that it doesn't need it |
| 20:21.58 | dec4n | Cpuroast, OK I'll do it. Thank you very much |
| 20:22.01 | Amarande | [TheFlash]: and yeah, GNOME tends to be especially invested in "the new technology" compared to most DEs and WMs |
| 20:22.02 | Cpuroast | dec4n: although, if you had SID in place, your system may currently be a mix of Squeeze and sid, which would get ugly |
| 20:22.09 | Amarande | so it's not really a good indication of the general trend |
| 20:22.11 | [TheFlash] | who knows, it was a VM so i might have forgotten to do --no-install-recommends |
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| 20:22.35 | dec4n | Cpuroast, yeah I've already change sid to squeeze in the .list |
| 20:22.44 | Cpuroast | dec4n: why was it set to sid? |
| 20:22.47 | Cpuroast | in the 1st place |
| 20:22.52 | jhutchins | At what point does init release the system and offer the login screens? |
| 20:22.54 | *** join/#debian tempspace (~tempspace@hellokittysuperhappyfuntime.com) |
| 20:22.54 | jhutchins | Is that when rc.local runs, or only when all of the rc.d scripts have run? |
| 20:23.01 | Amarande | GNOME has actually publicly, if I remember right, come out and said that they consider Linux the only relevant OS for them, and thus that they don't care about becoming Linux specific (due to systemd etc.) and breaking with other OS like IllumOS, Solaris, FreeBSD etc. |
| 20:23.05 | [TheFlash] | Amarande: i've actually asked on #mate first, they said it was debian's fault |
| 20:23.14 | Amarande | don't think other DEs have done so, so presumably they continue to work with sysvinit just fine |
| 20:23.32 | dec4n | Cpuroast, when I just installed the OS in the board, it was already set |
| 20:23.43 | Cpuroast | odd |
| 20:23.51 | [TheFlash] | Amarande: debian configured it with the "--with-systemd" option |
| 20:23.53 | Amarande | I wonder how the Debian FreeBSD branch is going to approach that, though |
| 20:23.53 | dec4n | Cpuroast, date release is 1-15-2013 |
| 20:24.12 | jhutchins | dec4n: care to post sources.list to paste.debian.net? |
| 20:24.13 | Amarande | since systemd is not available on FreeBSD and I'm not 100% sure it's even practical to port it |
| 20:24.50 | nkuttler | [TheFlash]: mate is not in stable yet. #debian-next on oftc for help with testing/sid. or open a bug |
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| 20:25.15 | jhutchins | It would be a good thing if systemd did not take over the whole *nix world. There are some serious problems with where it's going. |
| 20:25.16 | [TheFlash] | nkuttler: oops, you're correct, i'm in the wrong channel |
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| 20:26.05 | mistnim | rasc, almost the same: https://imgur.com/pe63div the screen is actually filled with things before this, but evidently it does a clear screen before it |
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| 20:26.42 | dec4n | jhutchins, http://paste.debian.net/109987/ |
| 20:27.27 | farid | hi |
| 20:28.04 | mistnim | rasc: if you press the power hte button from here it just does a clean shut down |
| 20:29.36 | farid | I would like to know if i can load a preseed file on a 2nd cdrom. In documentation i can see preseed/file=/cdrom/preseed.cfg. But i can't find how i can use a 2nd cdrom. |
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| 20:30.42 | nell | heurist |
| 20:30.45 | nell | how do i start fresh? |
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| 20:31.14 | rasc | put debug in the place you took quiet then |
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| 20:33.12 | mistnim | rasc: ok |
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| 20:35.26 | jhutchins | dec4n: You should probably change your deb-src line to squeeze too. |
| 20:35.45 | jhutchins | dec4n: Where did you get an installer that set up sid? What does lsb_release -a say? |
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| 20:36.54 | nell | ssh works when i have privoxy installed and running |
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| 20:37.40 | dec4n | jhutchins, Yes I've already done. It's an official debian release from Compulab for the board: www.compulab.co.il/workspace/mediawiki/index.php5/CM-T3517:_Linux:_Debian |
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| 20:38.26 | mistnim | rasc: is the same thing with the added line wlan0: no ipvs router present |
| 20:38.38 | jhutchins | dec4n: Strange. |
| 20:38.45 | jhutchins | dec4n: So it's squeeze? |
| 20:38.48 | heurist | nell: apt-get purge obfsproxy maybe |
| 20:39.04 | mistnim | rasc: ipv6* |
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| 20:39.11 | Amarande | jhutchins: from what I've read systemd is heavily dependent on the linux kernel specifically, so it probably won't be readily, if it all, portable to other OS |
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| 20:39.24 | nell | can't check configuration file '/etc/privoxy/config': Permission denied |
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| 20:40.43 | jhutchins | nell: Are you root? |
| 20:40.50 | dec4n | jhutchins, yes it is, but the .list file was set as sid :S |
| 20:41.02 | nell | now i am jhutchins |
| 20:41.07 | nell | but i cant check config |
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| 20:41.20 | dec4n | jhutchins, lsb_release -a : command not found |
| 20:41.29 | jhutchins | nell: If you can't open a file as root, either the file is locked by some process or there is a problem with your filesystem. |
| 20:42.11 | jhutchins | dec4n: How about cat /etc/debian_version |
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| 20:43.18 | jhutchins | dec4n: lsb_release is in lsb-release - you could instlal it later after things get worked out. |
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| 20:43.51 | dp | I have ca-certificates installed, with all certs included. however, if I curl https://moneycenter.yodlee.com, I get an error http://paste2.org/fOfMEcUX. Running this from a Mac works correctly. I've compared the crt files for thawte Primary Root CA, and I get an odd difference: http://paste2.org/vs7dy5vG -- any suggestions on what's wrong, and what I can do to fix this? |
| 20:43.56 | mistnim | rasc? |
| 20:44.04 | jhutchins | compulab is slashdotted. |
| 20:44.13 | dec4n | jhutchins, cat /etc/debian_version --> 6.0 and cat /etc/issue --> Debian GNU/Linux 6.0 \n \l |
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| 20:44.37 | rasc | you can log as root in a boot that failed or do you need to do a diferent boot? |
| 20:45.01 | jhutchins | dec4n: So do you plan to upgrade to wheezy? |
| 20:45.06 | BeBoo | While still using aptitude, what is the best way to get the latest phpmyadmin? I see that 3.4.11.1 is the one currently in wheezy's repo. The latest is 4.2.5. Would it just be best to do it from source and install manually? |
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| 20:45.42 | jhutchins | ,v phpmyadmin |
| 20:45.45 | judd | Package: phpmyadmin on i386 -- squeeze: 4:3.3.7-7; squeeze-security: 4:3.3.7-7; squeeze-security-lts: 4:3.3.7-8; wheezy: 4:3.4.11.1-2; wheezy-proposed-updates: 4:3.4.11.1-2+deb7u1; wheezy-security: 4:3.4.11.1-2+deb7u1; jessie: 4:4.2.5-1; sid: 4:4.2.5-1 |
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| 20:46.00 | dec4n | jhutchins, not for now. I want to test the board with squeeze |
| 20:46.18 | centrx | Crystal Ball says Do a source backport |
| 20:46.36 | somiaj | BeBoo: why won't the version wheezy provides work for you? It is fully patched against security issues if that is why you want the newest. |
| 20:46.42 | jhutchins | !tell BeBoo about ssb |
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| 20:46.47 | mistnim | rasc: I do the rescue boot, I can't log in the boot the failed |
| 20:46.51 | dec4n | jhutchins, I'm afraid to screw things up if I upgarde to wheezy |
| 20:46.57 | jhutchins | BeBoo: See msg from dpkg on how to do it. |
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| 20:47.12 | BeBoo | somiaj, the 4.x branch has some nice features I would like to utilize. |
| 20:47.19 | rasc | so you need to dive into the logs and get the one that failed to show us |
| 20:47.51 | mistnim | rasc: how can I get the logsfrom the boot that failed? |
| 20:47.54 | somiaj | BeBoo: the choice is then up to you, /msg dpkg ssb (if you want to use the version from sid and backport it into a custom package). In the end it is a set of php scripts so you could install it outside of dpkg, you will just be in charge of mataining it. |
| 20:48.03 | mistnim | which apparently doesn'treally fails but just hangs |
| 20:48.06 | jhutchins | dec4n: https://wiki.debian.org/LTS |
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| 20:48.24 | BeBoo | jhutchins, thanks - I will check it out. |
| 20:48.25 | pce | hexchat in not in wheezy!? |
| 20:48.27 | jhutchins | dec4n: You want squeeze-lts in your sources. |
| 20:48.32 | rasc | its in /var/log/dmesg |
| 20:48.42 | somiaj | ,v hexchat |
| 20:48.43 | judd | Package: hexchat on i386 -- wheezy-backports: 2.9.6.1-2~bpo70+1; jessie: 2.10.0-1; sid: 2.10.0-1 |
| 20:48.45 | centrx | pce, It is in wheezy-backports |
| 20:48.51 | somiaj | pce: it is in wheezy backports. |
| 20:48.55 | pce | ok thank you |
| 20:49.07 | mistnim | rasc: which one? |
| 20:49.22 | dec4n | jhutchins, but lts supports amd64 and i386 only |
| 20:49.40 | rasc | the one without any dot |
| 20:49.41 | dec4n | jhutching, the arch I'm workin on is armel |
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| 20:50.13 | somiaj | dec4n: then you should use wheezy if you want any security support. Else I think oldstable has or will move to archive.debian.org so the packages are still there, they just won't be updated for security issues. |
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| 20:51.38 | funyun | hi. i can only connect to my ftp via sftp. can anyone tell me what's wrong with my vsftpd config that won't allow me to use normal ftp? http://pastebin.com/M1wEZM0P |
| 20:51.52 | Spec | dp: if you're still trying to figure it out, moneycenter.yodlee.com is not properly publishing the intermediate certificate |
| 20:52.00 | dec4n | somiaj, the kernel is 3.7.2-cm-t3517, if I update to wheezy it will change? |
| 20:52.23 | Spec | dp: so, to work, it requires on programs (like a browser) having a cached copy of the intermediate certificate installed |
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| 20:54.03 | mistnim | rasc: I give you the last line in case it gives illumination "[ 15.038458] Installing knfsd" the full dmesg is a bit trickier to send, tell me if you need it |
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| 20:54.57 | somiaj | dec4n: the default wheezy kernel is 3.2, unless you have the kernel meta package installed a new kernel won't be installed during the upgrade and it won't uninstall your custom 3.7.2 kernel |
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| 20:55.20 | somiaj | dec4n: provided that kernel is configure to support everything in wheezy the upgrade shouldn'te ffect it. |
| 20:56.23 | rasc | mistnim: you need to dive in there and find something suspicious |
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| 20:56.51 | dec4n | somiaj, I guess those are good news due to I've had so many problems with dependencies in squeeze |
| 20:57.18 | jhutchins | dec4n: If you've been installing from sid, yeah, you could have a real mess there. |
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| 20:57.21 | rasc | mistnim: I got to go in 5 minutes, can't help you anymore |
| 20:57.32 | dec4n | somiaj, also the current kernel contains all the hardware support for the board |
| 20:57.33 | mistnim | rasc: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-95755.html?sid=e37568e010f4466abd69719357e70840 |
| 20:57.35 | mistnim | can this help? |
| 20:57.42 | funyun | rasc: maybe you can help me. 5 mins is more than i need |
| 20:57.46 | mistnim | rasc: thank you anyway |
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| 20:59.20 | maurer | So, a while back I ran "apt-get build-dep libvirt", so that I could get the dependencies to build a new version of libvirt. I didn't notice at the time, but this command evidently disabled sysvinit, and installed systemd |
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| 20:59.44 | maurer | Recently I rebooted, and now my nfs idmapd doesn't work, and I don't know how to debug it because systemd is running the show now |
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| 20:59.50 | maurer | How do I switch back to sysvinit? |
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| 21:01.53 | maurer | (also, it is totally not cool that installing build dependencies for something switched my init system out from under me, or even that my init system got changed without a dist-upgrade) |
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| 21:02.50 | centrx | maurer, It sounds like you may be using testing/unstable |
| 21:02.51 | rasc | funyun: sftp uses port 115 and ftp uses port 20, so connect_from_port_20=NO would disable ftp? maybe I guess |
| 21:02.57 | maurer | centrx: I'm using jessie |
| 21:03.14 | centrx | maurer, right, so systemd is going to replace sysvinit as the default in jessie, which is currently before release |
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| 21:03.37 | centrx | maurer, I think you can get sysvinit back by either re-installing apt-get install sysvinit, or with update-alternatives |
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| 21:04.11 | centrx | maurer, It hasn't happened on my jessie installation, but I guess some packages are causing the systemd upgrade |
| 21:04.40 | phy1729 | if I have something I want only a phpscript to read it should have owner root and group www-data with mode 640 right? |
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| 21:06.25 | funyun | rasc: thank you :) |
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| 21:08.08 | Mousey | epic netsplit |
| 21:08.12 | jhutchins | maurer: You may find more help for jessie in #debian-next on oftc.net. |
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| 21:08.32 | jhutchins | Mousey: If you hide joins & parts you don't even notice. |
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| 21:08.45 | Mousey | jhutchins: well where's the fun in that? ^_^ |
| 21:08.59 | somiaj | dec4n: /msg dpkg squeeze->wheezy -- I would suggest removing any debian kernel packages during the upgrade just to be safe since you aren't using them. Without the kernel issue the main thing is will that kernel work with wheezy, my guess is yes but if it doesn't be prepared to resuce your system |
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| 21:15.35 | dec4n | somiaj, so should I /msg dpkg squeeze--> wheezy before upgrading 6 to 7? sorry I don't really understand :S |
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| 21:16.13 | centrx | dec4n, dpkg is a bot that will give you some short instructions for the upgrade and further links |
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| 21:24.46 | ag4ve | so i cloned a debian vm and it won't come up. vmware says it's connected, it's got a different mac address but nothing |
| 21:25.09 | abrotman | what does it say in the console? |
| 21:25.29 | ag4ve | say? |
| 21:25.41 | ag4ve | ip addr list shows no ip if that's what you mean |
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| 21:29.25 | ^HeavyDove^ | Does anyone know how to drop into a bash shell during the install. |
| 21:29.34 | ^HeavyDove^ | I can't get my wireless card to work despite having drivers loaded |
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| 21:29.55 | tremon | ^HeavyDove^: try alt+f2 |
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| 21:30.09 | ^HeavyDove^ | tremon, full bash? |
| 21:30.11 | ^HeavyDove^ | or just ash... |
| 21:30.23 | ^HeavyDove^ | I have the drivers installed |
| 21:30.28 | tremon | neither, I think it's busybox sh |
| 21:30.29 | ^HeavyDove^ | I can't get it to recognzie my wireless card |
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| 21:31.04 | tremon | probably missing firmware then? anything in dmesg? |
| 21:31.31 | abrotman | refuses to help on the basis that it requires a special character to address the person |
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| 21:31.39 | tremon | also "my wireless" is a bit vague. if the installer includes lspci, try pasting the relevant lines from lspci -nn |
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| 21:32.36 | ^HeavyDove^ | iyd trvohnixinh yhr eutrlrdd vstf |
| 21:32.53 | ^HeavyDove^ | 3945AGB golan |
| 21:33.22 | ^HeavyDove^ | and the gigabit 82573L |
| 21:33.24 | tremon | the pci id would be helpful |
| 21:34.05 | ^HeavyDove^ | 8086:27c5 |
| 21:34.17 | ^HeavyDove^ | sorry |
| 21:34.18 | ^HeavyDove^ | wrong wrong |
| 21:34.20 | ^HeavyDove^ | one* |
| 21:34.39 | abrotman | he needs firmware, doesn't matter, it's an intel card |
| 21:34.56 | abrotman | just /msg dpkg firmware images |
| 21:34.58 | ^HeavyDove^ | firmware is installed. |
| 21:35.27 | tremon | hmm, I have no experience with these chipsets and can only find info on the intel 2x00 series |
| 21:35.31 | ^HeavyDove^ | " Unofficial <netinst> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for installing Debian 7 "Wheezy" are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ . See also <install guide>." |
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| 21:35.53 | ^HeavyDove^ | Toshiba managed to find every piece of horribly supported hardware under linux and throw them in one laptop. |
| 21:36.05 | abrotman | The intel cards are actually well supported, just require firmware |
| 21:36.12 | ^HeavyDove^ | not these ones. |
| 21:36.28 | tremon | ,pci-id 8086:27c5 |
| 21:36.29 | judd | [8086:27c5] is '82801GBM/GHM (ICH7-M Family) SATA Controller [AHCI mode]' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules 'ata_generic', 'ahci', 'snd-hda-intel' in wheezy. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=8086:27c5 |
| 21:36.31 | ^HeavyDove^ | no opensource drivers |
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| 21:36.48 | ^HeavyDove^ | debian wont install proprietary ones |
| 21:36.52 | abrotman | Right, but the closed ones are well supported by Intel |
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| 21:37.08 | abrotman | doesn't know what proprietary ones are .. |
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| 21:37.16 | tremon | oh wait, firmware-iwlwifi |
| 21:37.18 | ^HeavyDove^ | 8086:109 |
| 21:37.20 | ^HeavyDove^ | 8086:109a |
| 21:37.25 | ^HeavyDove^ | Thats my ethernet controller |
| 21:37.32 | abrotman | I'm using an Intel Wifi card at the moment .. one of the best wifi devices I've used .. certainly better than Broadcom nonsense |
| 21:37.39 | tremon | ,pci-id 8086:109a |
| 21:37.41 | judd | [8086:109a] is '82573L Gigabit Ethernet Controller' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules 'ata_generic', 'e1000e', 'snd-hda-intel' in wheezy. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=8086:109a |
| 21:37.43 | ^HeavyDove^ | 8086:4222 is my wireless card |
| 21:37.47 | abrotman | ... |
| 21:37.53 | tremon | ,pci-id 8086:4222 |
| 21:37.54 | judd | [8086:4222] is 'PRO/Wireless 3945ABG [Golan] Network Connection' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules 'ata_generic', 'snd-hda-intel', 'iwl3945' in wheezy. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=8086:4222 http://wiki.debian.org/iwlegacy |
| 21:37.54 | abrotman | gives up |
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| 21:38.29 | tremon | ok, should be supported in wheezy. so far so good :) |
| 21:38.38 | abrotman | ... |
| 21:38.38 | ^HeavyDove^ | its not loading the drivers out of the box |
| 21:38.46 | ^HeavyDove^ | I did a manual isntall from a usb, still not loading |
| 21:38.55 | abrotman | manual install of what? |
| 21:38.59 | ^HeavyDove^ | the drivers |
| 21:39.02 | abrotman | which drivers? |
| 21:39.08 | abrotman | from where? where did you get them? |
| 21:39.10 | ^HeavyDove^ | the iwlifi |
| 21:39.16 | tremon | did you use the firmware images you described above? |
| 21:39.43 | Shadow_7 | This is why I do debootstrap installs |
| 21:39.51 | ^HeavyDove^ | iwl3945 |
| 21:39.57 | tremon | according to that page, you need the firmware-iwlwifi package but the kernel module is called iwlegacy |
| 21:39.59 | abrotman | Shadow_7: not helpful .. |
| 21:40.02 | ^HeavyDove^ | I got it. |
| 21:40.06 | ^HeavyDove^ | it's installed |
| 21:40.15 | ^HeavyDove^ | this is why I hate linux on laptops |
| 21:40.19 | ^HeavyDove^ | Especially older ones |
| 21:40.27 | abrotman | Again, use the firmware images |
| 21:40.38 | abrotman | the bot linked you to them, use them, makes things easier |
| 21:40.44 | tremon | newer laptops aren't better in general though. Issues with graphics mostly |
| 21:40.53 | ^HeavyDove^ | that's the only issue |
| 21:41.10 | abrotman | "Hey I know, someone keeps pointing me at the solution, I'll keep whining" |
| 21:41.15 | tremon | yeah, still I'd take a non-functioning antenna over a non-functioning display any time :) |
| 21:41.31 | tremon | or the reverse, rather |
| 21:41.38 | ^HeavyDove^ | "Hey I know, I'll point them to a solution that's impossible for them to use as none of their network interfaces are working as the drivers aren't working!" |
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| 21:41.55 | skibur | Anybody use Fritzing? |
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| 21:42.12 | ^HeavyDove^ | I can't use usb tethering with my phone, it doesn't want to work. |
| 21:42.23 | ^HeavyDove^ | In the installer, perfect it works |
| 21:42.32 | abrotman | So oyu no longer have a working OS? |
| 21:42.36 | Shadow_7 | ^HeavyDove^: did you modprobe iwl3945 && dmesg |
| 21:42.39 | ^HeavyDove^ | It's as usefull as dos... |
| 21:42.44 | abrotman | Shadow_7: he'd have to remove, then reload |
| 21:43.07 | ^HeavyDove^ | yes |
| 21:43.08 | skibur | Nevermind of the Fritzing question. |
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| 21:43.47 | ^HeavyDove^ | is there anyway to get tethering with a droid device working |
| 21:43.55 | ^HeavyDove^ | It keeps assinging my computer the IP address "192.168.48.129" |
| 21:44.09 | ^HeavyDove^ | So I know something isn't going rigth there. |
| 21:44.22 | ^HeavyDove^ | At least if I can get USB tethering to work I can use the repo's |
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| 21:45.31 | abrotman | So oyu no longer have a working OS? |
| 21:45.31 | tremon | that ip address doesn't look odd to me. at least it's not in a self-assignment range |
| 21:46.38 | ^HeavyDove^ | tremon, every time I've ever had that IP assigned it's be because of a hardware issue |
| 21:46.45 | ^HeavyDove^ | every time the device doesn't work |
| 21:47.20 | ^HeavyDove^ | I enable wifi instead of trying to do a LTE tether and now I can ping google and use repo's... |
| 21:47.28 | ^HeavyDove^ | What logic is this?! |
| 21:48.39 | ^HeavyDove^ | I have to add the non free repo |
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| 21:49.45 | tremon | you can do that once the system is installed, you can't enable that repo from inside the installer (unless I'm mistaken, I don't spend days in the installer). |
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| 21:50.00 | ^HeavyDove^ | tremon, I'm in the system |
| 21:50.04 | ^HeavyDove^ | I was planning on reinstalling |
| 21:50.15 | tremon | ah... I had assumed/understood that you were in the installer |
| 21:50.27 | ^HeavyDove^ | nope. |
| 21:50.36 | ^HeavyDove^ | I finally have a data connection so I have that going for me... |
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| 21:51.21 | gnat_x | backupninja question. i have a backup that filled up my backups filesystem, and i'm out of LVM space, so i can't expand my way out of it. i think i've fixed the issue that was bloating the container in question, now i need to get rid of some old backups. i already copied the two most recent daily and weekly backups to spare drive. can i just clear out the backup directory without causing backupninja to balk when it runs tonight? |
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| 21:52.37 | abrotman | tremon: 17:29 < ^HeavyDove^ > Does anyone know how to drop into a bash shell during the install. |
| 21:52.44 | abrotman | tremon: So don't feel bad ... |
| 21:53.10 | dankan | abrotman: ctrl+alt+f2? |
| 21:53.17 | dankan | then enter |
| 21:53.18 | abrotman | dankan: Thank you |
| 21:53.27 | dankan | dankan: busybox shell |
| 21:54.08 | dankan | abrotman: :) |
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| 21:57.45 | Amarande | ^HeavyDove^: btw, you installing wheezy or jessie? |
| 21:57.57 | Amarande | with wifi it seems to be especially important to install wheezy first and upgrade to jessie, which is what you're apparently meant to do anyhow |
| 21:58.07 | Amarande | as they say, the testing installer is for testing the installer, not for installing testing |
| 21:58.39 | wsl38 | that's kind of funny |
| 21:58.44 | Amarande | and tbh, I've never been able to get the testing installer to work with secured wifi correctly, even with a card (atheros 9485) that's EXCEPTIONALLY amenable to Linux |
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| 21:59.21 | Amarande | wheezy's installer works fine with wifi, so apparently it's something that's come broken solely in testing, though I'm not sure what |
| 21:59.23 | Amarande | both work fine over wired |
| 21:59.49 | gnat_x | Amarande: wpasupplicant support for encrypted connections is wonky. |
| 21:59.59 | gnat_x | in ways that are different by card. |
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| 22:00.13 | Amarande | gnat_x: apparently it's something that's solely an issue with the installer though, since it always worked fine post installation |
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| 22:00.40 | gnat_x | Amarande: i wonder if the installer's version of wpa supplicant is buggy. |
| 22:00.48 | Amarande | gnat_x: most likely. |
| 22:01.09 | Amarande | what I do know from the alt-f4 log console is that it always connects up, then immediately disconnects again saying "by local choice" or words to that effect |
| 22:01.29 | Amarande | apparently it does handshake, then wpasupplicant decides that the connection isn't what it wanted and immediately drops it |
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| 22:07.22 | ^HeavyDove^ | Amarande, wheezy |
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| 22:07.42 | ^HeavyDove^ | the wifi drivers are now installed |
| 22:07.46 | ^HeavyDove^ | from the debian repo! |
| 22:07.49 | ^HeavyDove^ | and still no wireless card |
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| 22:12.45 | Amarande | ouch. might try downloading the latest kernel from backports and sneakernetting it over to the debian machine |
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| 22:13.07 | Amarande | I seem to remember having to do that once on a debian machine, back when sandy bridge was new and the Z68 ethernet hadn't got support in the installation kernel for then-stable |
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| 22:13.47 | Amarande | not sure off the top of my head what the direct link for backports is though :( |
| 22:13.59 | Amarande | as in the one to visit with a web browser if you need to download the package for use on another machine (due to, say, needing a network driver) |
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| 22:16.02 | cafuego | bpo? |
| 22:16.13 | cafuego | backports? |
| 22:16.23 | cafuego | gives up |
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| 22:19.34 | Amarande | cafuego: pretty sure all of dpkg's backports info is about using it via the package manager though |
| 22:19.39 | *** join/#debian HeavyDove (~^HeavyDov@198.144.156.59) |
| 22:19.49 | HeavyDove | So how do I get my wireless card to enable |
| 22:19.55 | Amarande | cafuego: in this case, we're wondering if a kernel upgrade would help HeavyDove's network problems |
| 22:20.06 | Amarande | ah, you can get on via wired but not wireless? |
| 22:20.08 | Amarande | that makes it simpler |
| 22:20.15 | Amarande | dpkg, tell HeavyDove about bpo |
| 22:20.51 | Amarande | backports has some newer kernels (usually as up to date as sid) packaged for wheezy, so maybe a later version will support your wifi card better |
| 22:21.12 | yuriks_ | I'm trying to automate some installs using a preseed file. I've already done this successfully, but now I'm trying to modify the partitioning scheme it creates. I want to create an encrypted volume *without* LVM |
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| 22:21.40 | yuriks_ | which doesn't seem to be supported by partman-auto. (I can't tell for sure, documentation is spotty and digging around inside the sources only got me so far) |
| 22:21.46 | yuriks_ | is there some other way of manually partitioning the disk? |
| 22:22.11 | abrotman | HeavyDove: do you mean wifi or LTE? |
| 22:22.23 | jmcnaught | HeavyDove: if you're the same HeavyDove from earlier with the 3945 you probably don't need a newer kernel from backports. You could check the output of dmesg to see if there's any error about missing firmware. You probably need either firmware-iwlwifi or firmware-ipw2x00 |
| 22:22.32 | HeavyDove | abrotman, wifi |
| 22:22.42 | yuriks_ | I'm checking the partman files in /var/lib/partman while I do the setup interactively and it views the setup of the inner encrypted volume as two different disks, so that's why I don't think just creating a recipe is enough |
| 22:22.53 | abrotman | HeavyDove: you only need firmware and non-free sources. your card is plenty old enough to work with Wheezy |
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| 22:23.23 | HeavyDove | abrotman, its not working |
| 22:23.32 | HeavyDove | I'm going to use my linksys pcmia card |
| 22:23.33 | abrotman | HeavyDove: what does dmesg say? |
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| 22:23.38 | cafuego | Amarande: If the problem is wifi, he or she will probably want firmware as well as a possible kernel. |
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| 22:24.04 | abrotman | HeavyDove: can you pastebin the complete output from 'dmesg' ? |
| 22:24.14 | Amarande | cafuego: depends, I'm not sure what the usual "pattern" as to which wifi cards need firmware or not is |
| 22:24.14 | HeavyDove | abrotman, headless install |
| 22:24.25 | HeavyDove | wireless is hacky |
| 22:24.27 | cafuego | Amarande: In my experience it's been "random" ;-) |
| 22:24.40 | abrotman | HeavyDove: so what? you can still use paste.debian.net with a text browser to paste /var/log/dmesg |
| 22:24.40 | Amarande | it seems to be heavily manufacturer related, from what I've been able to gather |
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| 22:24.58 | HeavyDove | abrotman, what's the one you can curl |
| 22:25.13 | cafuego | HeavyDove: Oh, actually... I ran into an issue a while back where the default wifi state went from On to Off for some reason, I needed to enable it via `rfkill' by default first after that time. |
| 22:25.19 | abrotman | ... |
| 22:25.43 | cafuego | HeavyDove: No amount of using the hwradware switch on the laptop or loading/unloading the module helped. |
| 22:25.47 | HeavyDove | cafuego, it was complaining about rkill being a possible problem |
| 22:25.47 | Amarande | e.g., Atheros tends to be better than most - I tend to wholeheartedly recommend the Rosewill RNX-N150PCe card as an ideal choice for Linux, since it's usually very cheap (often under 15 USD) and the AR9485 has basically perfect support |
| 22:25.51 | jmcnaught | dpkg: tell HeavyDove -about pastebinit |
| 22:25.57 | HeavyDove | Amarande, I lovve them |
| 22:26.08 | cafuego | HeavyDove: I became dejected at that point and bought a macbook ;-) |
| 22:26.59 | Amarande | otoh, I hear Broadcom is a nightmare, and should go curl up in their dark corner of hell and die, heh |
| 22:27.04 | *** join/#debian shenk`1 (~Thunderbi@c-76-98-237-89.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 22:27.27 | Amarande | I'm not sure about Intel, I know their wired ethernet is one of the standard "well supported" ones, but not sure about wifi |
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| 22:27.51 | cafuego | Amarande: Some intel wifi needs firmware, some doesn't. Post-G mostly does, I think. |
| 22:28.00 | arven | My RTL8111/8168B Realtek onboard wired ethernet card complains about firmware, but somehow still works just fine without it. |
| 22:28.37 | Amarande | I've never quite understood why they use firmware that has to be loaded from host every boot, rather than EPROM or permanent firmware |
| 22:28.41 | HeavyDove | cafuego, what was your fix? |
| 22:28.48 | cafuego | Amarande: Oddly, the one I've had the least issues with was a broadcom b43 *old* style on an old G4 iBook running Linux :-) |
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| 22:28.52 | Amarande | seems like it results in inefficiencies and more complications for drivers |
| 22:28.57 | HeavyDove | Amarande, standardsation |
| 22:29.12 | cafuego | HeavyDove: If you run rfkill, it'll show you enabled/disabled status |
| 22:29.23 | cafuego | HeavyDove: Check what it outputs for wifi. |
| 22:29.30 | Amarande | although I suppose it keeps them from having to have different SKUs per region, since it seems like they can't come to an international consensus on standard channels for wifi :p |
| 22:29.35 | HeavyDove | cafuego, it showed a hardware block as being on |
| 22:29.41 | HeavyDove | cafuego, what do I do? |
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| 22:30.41 | cafuego | HeavyDove: rfkill unblock [something]-wifi |
| 22:30.59 | somiaj | hardware block is most likely an actual switch on the laptop and can't be controled by software |
| 22:31.12 | somiaj | sometimes linked to a function + key combo |
| 22:31.15 | HeavyDove | It is |
| 22:31.35 | HeavyDove | the hardblock refuses to turn off |
| 22:32.09 | arven | I've read that sometimes the key combo is tied to some functionality in a Windows driver, and it's a hardware lock that's controllable from software (but isn't really documented) |
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| 22:34.06 | HeavyDove | http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/b43#Ubuntu.2FDebian |
| 22:34.18 | HeavyDove | I'm using this now to setup my other wireless card. |
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| 22:34.34 | HeavyDove | AND SHE WORKS! |
| 22:34.37 | HeavyDove | the externall card... |
| 22:34.43 | HeavyDove | (I want a atheros card) |
| 22:35.24 | cafuego | All I have is a stack of Orinocos, sorry. |
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| 22:36.06 | HeavyDove | :| |
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| 22:39.06 | HeavyDove | I can't get my core i3 to boot debian... |
| 22:39.18 | HeavyDove | and my old core 2 duo has to use a pcmia card |
| 22:39.50 | cafuego | Well, not *actual* 16bit pcmcia I reckon. |
| 22:40.14 | HeavyDove | and my external card is hardware locked... |
| 22:40.21 | HeavyDove | I have a new reason to hate toshiba |
| 22:43.17 | Amarande | a hardware lock that requires a software control ... that seems awfully insecure :S |
| 22:43.29 | HeavyDove | And guess what. |
| 22:43.37 | HeavyDove | Now my linksys card (after a reboot) NO LONGER WORKS! |
| 22:43.54 | HeavyDove | This is why I hate every company that makes a wireless product that's not Atheros. |
| 22:44.00 | HeavyDove | Broadcom is satan. |
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| 22:48.00 | HeavyDove | I hope broadcom's factories flood like seagate and wd's |
| 22:48.07 | HeavyDove | hopefully no more shit will come out of them |
| 22:48.39 | cafuego | And that's why I got a mac ;-) |
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| 22:49.15 | Shadow_7 | That's why I got a stand alone router, so I only ever have to deal with ethernet. |
| 22:49.25 | HeavyDove | I need to deal with wifi. |
| 22:49.44 | HeavyDove | eitehr way the ethernet port isn't working -_- |
| 22:49.48 | cafuego | Shadow_7: 's a bit tricky to run when traveling, though ;-) |
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| 22:50.20 | Shadow_7 | cafuego: RPi with wifi dongle in bridge mode. |
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| 22:51.06 | Shadow_7 | the stand alone things allow you to place them (and the antennae) in more optimal positions. |
| 22:51.18 | Shadow_7 | versus standing halfway out the window |
| 22:51.29 | cafuego | Shadow_7: I don't think an RPi can run my development VMs though. |
| 22:51.40 | cafuego | Shadow_7: It *just* copes with xbmc |
| 22:51.56 | Shadow_7 | cafuego: it doesn't need to, just provide an ethernet means to access a wifi network |
| 22:52.03 | HeavyDove | HOW THE HELL IS A PCMAI HARD |
| 22:52.06 | HeavyDove | HARBLOCKED?! |
| 22:52.15 | HeavyDove | IT HAS NO HARDWARE DISABLE SWITCH |
| 22:52.56 | GuidovanPossum | I think you mapped it to your caps lock key |
| 22:53.15 | Shadow_7 | Fn + some key with wifi icon probs |
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| 22:53.21 | cafuego | Shadow_7: Oh I see; travel with extra hardware :-) |
| 22:53.25 | HeavyDove | Shadow_7, this is a external card. |
| 22:53.31 | HeavyDove | How the hell could it be locked?! |
| 22:53.40 | HeavyDove | rfkill says it isn't until I go to connect |
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| 22:54.12 | cafuego | HeavyDove: Keep in mind it's software telling you that and software often tells lies. |
| 22:54.33 | HeavyDove | cafuego, It wont let me do anything to connect |
| 22:54.38 | cafuego | s/often/pretty much always/ |
| 22:54.41 | HeavyDove | it just complains that it's hard locked despite no switch |
| 22:54.54 | HeavyDove | Any other laptop I put it in that has a hardware lock key combo it works. |
| 22:54.54 | *** part/#debian dsn_LT (d58c3b99@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.140.59.153) |
| 22:54.58 | HeavyDove | It's this one machine. |
| 22:55.48 | HeavyDove | I can litterally use aircrack-ng on it on windows |
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| 22:57.12 | cafuego | Yaaay S3. |
| 22:57.29 | cafuego | Such lag in deleting bucket contents that deleting the bucket itself fails. |
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| 22:58.04 | abrotman | cafuego: you need the thimble operations |
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| 22:59.18 | HeavyDove | I'm almost desperate enough to use ndiswrapper... |
| 22:59.23 | HeavyDove | anyone have any kind of a solution? |
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| 23:02.19 | HeavyDove | anyone have a solution |
| 23:02.24 | HeavyDove | for the hardare switch issue |
| 23:02.31 | and0r | are you sure its a switch |
| 23:04.19 | HeavyDove | its a key combo like I said |
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| 23:07.12 | HeavyDove | no solutions? |
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| 23:09.23 | jmcnaught | HeavyDove: you might be able to get it working with rfkill, maybe the man page has something you've overlooked. Otherwise the same troubleshooting steps as before, check dmesg for errors about missing firmware, lookup the pciid |
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| 23:10.10 | HeavyDove | ytirytirf iy |
| 23:10.19 | HeavyDove | gitmestr trias |
| 23:10.21 | HeavyDove | tried it |
| 23:10.25 | HeavyDove | rfkill can't do shit |
| 23:10.30 | HeavyDove | the firmware is there |
| 23:10.39 | jmcnaught | dpkg: tell HeavyDove -about enter |
| 23:10.42 | HeavyDove | and recognized correctly, but due to a bug it thinks the hard has a hardware lock... |
| 23:10.57 | HeavyDove | dpkg: tell jmcnaught -about enter |
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| 23:11.44 | jmcnaught | HeavyDove: please don't do that |
| 23:11.50 | HeavyDove | ... |
| 23:11.56 | abrotman | ... |
| 23:12.04 | HeavyDove | So do you have a solution or am I using the shittiest possible hardware combitionation? |
| 23:12.56 | HeavyDove | This laptop is a cludge of desktop and laptop hardware. IT has multiple tv out, tv in, RF in, karmin audio, dual hdd's, nvidia 7600, core2duo based centrino |
| 23:13.46 | abrotman | Rube Goldberg install ... |
| 23:14.26 | dec4n | Thank you very much Debian Community! |
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| 23:15.48 | jmcnaught | HeavyDove: maybe something like the toshset package will help you. Perhaps the Fn+whatever combo that controls the radio kill switch needs some additional hardware. "apt-cache search toshiba | wc -l" suggests there are 9 packages that mention toshiba |
| 23:16.02 | jmcnaught | s/hardware/software |
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| 23:16.35 | HeavyDove | jmcnaught, I've already given up. |
| 23:16.39 | HeavyDove | Fuck this laptop to hell |
| 23:16.52 | HeavyDove | There's a reason it's not around today and there's reason you saw virtually no one around with it |
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| 23:18.06 | mentor | What laptop model is it? |
| 23:18.21 | jmcnaught | HeavyDove: https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/fnfxd maybe? |
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| 23:19.23 | HeavyDove | qosimo |
| 23:19.50 | HeavyDove | pqg32c-av605e |
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| 23:24.36 | asterismo | opening GIMP in KDE throws 79MB of .xsession-errors spam lines. Here: http://paste.debian.net/110019/ |
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| 23:26.56 | asterismo | any ideas? |
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| 23:27.39 | Brigo | asterismo, there si some bug reported about this error |
| 23:28.01 | Brigo | asterismo, i think related to the image size |
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| 23:31.03 | mentor | Grrrr, gone. |
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| 23:40.28 | justanotheruser | Best way to view PDFs from within chromium? |
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| 23:44.00 | lnxslck | justanotheruser, install pdf viewer? |
| 23:44.28 | justanotheruser | lnxslck: is there one that I can use locally? |
| 23:44.40 | lnxslck | like xpdf ? |
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| 23:44.46 | pce | i used hexchat a few times, now i am worried about if i get hacked, because the client is very old but still in the ports (from 2010 or 12) |
| 23:45.04 | justanotheruser | lnxslck: ya |
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| 23:45.24 | pce | sorry xchat nor hexchat |
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| 23:59.36 | frangor | exit |
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