| 00:00.00 | oldWoodoo | some perl help pleas. i have a date with yyyy/mm/dd ($year, $month, $day), and i want to get the date before x days |
| 00:00.02 | mwilson | I finally installed blackdown 1.4.1-01 today just so that I could run Delineate. |
| 00:00.09 | mario | should this not give me full rw access to the local ip? /etc/exports ---> /tmp 192.168.1.1(rw) ? |
| 00:00.10 | oldWoodoo | what is the simpliest way? |
| 00:00.18 | fearl | caphuso: haa, I have kinda decided that, but I do want to learn something useful like perl or python while I have some down time |
| 00:00.18 | kim_ | oldWoodoo, -> #perl ? |
| 00:00.22 | sin-bad_ | got a question for you. I'm compiling kernel 2.4.18 from the woody distro, and when it starts to compile it gets an error. What happens is, when it starts reading /asm/checksum.h, and it gets to the function _volatile_(), there is assembly code in there. But, instead of each individual assembly instruction in " ", the whole function is put in " ". How can I get it to compile like that? |
| 00:00.26 | holycow | :) |
| 00:00.31 | mwilson | mario: Subject to permissions within the share. |
| 00:00.36 | *** part/#debian oldWoodoo (~oldw@pluto.somogy.hu) |
| 00:00.40 | mdh | not to mention getting quotations right and snipping the irrelevent bits |
| 00:00.52 | kim_ | fearl, depends: are you a Great Programmer? Then perl is for you, else get python :-) |
| 00:00.55 | fearl | holycow: any reason for Python over Perl? |
| 00:01.02 | kim_ | fearl, and be honest with yourself re Great Programmer :-) |
| 00:01.05 | mdh | IT'S A BOY! |
| 00:01.06 | holycow | not really :) personal preference |
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| 00:01.16 | mdh | (sorry, my cappuchino just foamed ;) |
| 00:01.19 | kim_ | fearl, if you suck at coding, please for the love of god use python |
| 00:01.25 | caphuso | kim_: heh |
| 00:01.27 | kim_ | ;-) |
| 00:01.49 | Jondab | Justin_: my friend SSHed into the box.. he told me that some error must have happened during install that it didn't report to me... X was only partially installed. He's reinstalling it for me |
| 00:02.00 | holycow | fearl, i find it easier to read is the main reason and it is said that python performs better in an environment where one works in a dev team where pearl really does a great job where you need a quick fix |
| 00:02.04 | idnarhtim | fearl: you should definitely learn Perl, that way you can write those 20 line scripts that look like something out of /dev/urandom |
| 00:02.04 | kim_ | perl+!Great_Programmer==read_only_code :-P |
| 00:02.08 | fearl | kim_: I am not a programmer, however, perl seems to have more uses then python.. |
| 00:02.17 | Jacobo221 | isn't apsfilterconfig saving configuration to /etc/printcap ?? |
| 00:02.19 | idnarhtim | kim_: I think you mean write-only code? |
| 00:02.20 | mwilson | fearl: No, it has more USERS. |
| 00:02.21 | holycow | but i have no idea how true that is, i just can't even begin to read perl, python i understand just by reading it |
| 00:02.22 | kim_ | fearl, python python python, you want python! |
| 00:02.25 | caphuso | fearl: same uses |
| 00:02.26 | everton | is there a channel for debianizing newbies? |
| 00:02.26 | idnarhtim | fearl: anything you can do in Perl, you can do in Python |
| 00:02.29 | mdh | idnarhtim: /dev/urandom doesn't randomise quite that good |
| 00:02.32 | caphuso | fearl: perl is just nicer |
| 00:02.32 | mwilson | Jacobo221: yes, as long as you have write access to it. |
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| 00:02.37 | kim_ | idnarhtim, yes, it's 1 o'clock and I'm bashing my head on this debian install |
| 00:02.45 | kim_ | idnarhtim, write only yup ^^;; |
| 00:02.45 | Jacobo221 | mwilson: mm, wierd then... :-( |
| 00:02.47 | *** part/#debian knoppix (~knoppix@host45-169.pool8249.interbusiness.it) |
| 00:02.49 | *** part/#debian sin-bad_ (sin-bad@syr-24-58-94-27.twcny.rr.com) |
| 00:02.50 | idnarhtim | kim_: hehe |
| 00:03.02 | holycow | everton, well this channel ISN'T it!!!! hehehe, if anything newbies go back to windows after comming here |
| 00:03.03 | holycow | :) |
| 00:03.09 | prodope | when i make menuconfig during kernel configuration and i have an old .config... are the options already set, or do i need to go through it all again? |
| 00:03.16 | Jacobo221 | mwilson: anyway, the script checks if you have write access to it. I fyou don't, it fails |
| 00:03.19 | *** part/#debian thyhorror (~thyhorror@HSE-Toronto-ppp167201.sympatico.ca) |
| 00:03.22 | caphuso | idnarhtim: not anything. you can't use $==()=<>; to count the lines in a file |
| 00:03.34 | fearl | caphuso: why you say perl is nicer? seen some blog (I think of ben collins), he noted the same thing in perl and python... python certainly looked cleaner |
| 00:03.44 | mwilson | Jacobo221: Maybe the idiot maintainer broke it again. As far as I'm concerned, the last one that worked correctly was 7.2.5-2 |
| 00:03.52 | mdh | mwilson: on the email thing all I want to say is that if people are making good use of features html provides like those colours & fonts to help them communicate better, then the fix for security issues shouldn't be to take those features away. there is another solution. |
| 00:04.01 | prodope | ruby > perl > python :P |
| 00:04.01 | Justin_ | caphuso: no, but you can still count the lines in a file. |
| 00:04.09 | Justin_ | caphuso: and without going insane at the same time |
| 00:04.09 | Jacobo221 | mwilson: thanks, I'll check that one |
| 00:04.11 | kim_ | perl is nicer for good programmers |
| 00:04.12 | caphuso | fearl: because perl lets you write your stuff like you want it, and python forces you to write like the python gods want you |
| 00:04.27 | kim_ | python is a godsend with less-than-expert programmers :-) |
| 00:04.28 | mdh | on the flip side of that if they're using colours and fonts to look cool, they should be taken out and shot ;) |
| 00:04.37 | caphuso | Justin_: dict humour |
| 00:04.39 | holycow | kim_, amen to that |
| 00:04.44 | idnarhtim | caphuso: you know what I mean ;) |
| 00:04.48 | opti | fearl: simple question, and I can't seem to load websites right now to check... but how do I remove a module from the kernel through the text config files? |
| 00:04.49 | caphuso | idnarhtim: i do :) |
| 00:04.59 | mdh | kim_: both are good languages no matter what your programming skill is |
| 00:04.59 | Justin_ | caphuso: :-) |
| 00:05.07 | fearl | opti: you don't... man rmmod |
| 00:05.08 | Justin_ | caphuso: i think you meant sarcasm :-) |
| 00:05.12 | opti | fearl: I can't just use modconf or modprobe, it can't be removed from the currently running kernel |
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| 00:05.15 | kim_ | mdh, have you ever tried to read code by a bad programmer? :-/ |
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| 00:05.28 | kim_ | mdh, I mean a REALLY REALLY bad programmer? |
| 00:05.31 | mdh | kim_: I do that every day when I audit mine ;) |
| 00:05.41 | holycow | caphuso, python coders can always tell what a program is doing however, perl prgrammers cant figure out their own code 2 weeks later, never mind in a large group dev project |
| 00:05.42 | Justin_ | i saw a perl script that every line was system("echo sometext >> logfile"); |
| 00:05.45 | holycow | :) |
| 00:05.46 | kim_ | mdh, nice save I'll grant you that ;-) |
| 00:05.49 | caphuso | holycow: bullshit |
| 00:05.59 | caphuso | holycow: that's just trolling |
| 00:06.00 | fearl | opti: if the modules are in /etc/modules, remove them, why can't they be removed from a running kernel? |
| 00:06.00 | holycow | caphuso, it's a joke :) |
| 00:06.02 | kim_ | Justin_, that looks like something I'd do in bash ;-P |
| 00:06.03 | mdh | kim_: a language isn't going to make any programmer better. |
| 00:06.11 | holycow | you did notice the *duck* right? :) hehe |
| 00:06.14 | mwilson | caphuso: Yeah, it usually takes four weeks. |
| 00:06.17 | mentor | Justin_: A broken pencil? |
| 00:06.18 | kim_ | mdh, no, but some langauges let you shoot your foot better than others |
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| 00:06.34 | kim_ | mdh, and some langauges prevent foot-shooting to some degree |
| 00:06.40 | anti- | is there no input core support for 2.6.*? |
| 00:06.47 | caphuso | mwilson: i still understand all of my perl code, except some of the very early experiments |
| 00:06.51 | prodope | i'm running proftpd and users can login fine, but when they go into passive mode, i get a socket error... any ideas? |
| 00:06.51 | kim_ | mdh, python is a langauge that encourages programmers to have their code at least *slightly* readable ;-) |
| 00:06.53 | mdh | ah yes. C: you shoot yourself in the foot. C++: you inherit multiple subclasses that all shoot you in the foot. |
| 00:06.55 | mwilson | anti-: Where did you get that idea? |
| 00:06.58 | mentor | anti-: I wouldn't have thought not. |
| 00:07.08 | anti- | i cant find it in the menu |
| 00:07.14 | kim_ | mdh, sounds about par for the course that |
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| 00:07.17 | Jacobo221 | mwilson: As I see it, the script never does a "mv /etc/printcap.save /etc/printcap". That might be it |
| 00:07.18 | mwilson | caphuso: I learned APL once, I see no reason to do it again. |
| 00:07.20 | kim_ | mdh, try assembly sometime :-) |
| 00:07.24 | mdh | VB: you spend weeks painting a nice foot, then realise its all crap and shoot yourself in the head |
| 00:07.32 | mentor | mdh: You shoot yourself in the foot $£sdFsdf%7y465545$%^$drffg |
| 00:07.36 | anti- | i dont mean at all but what is it called now |
| 00:07.52 | kim_ | remember in perl there's more than one way to do it ;-) |
| 00:08.03 | idnarhtim | fearl: 2.6 without kernel unloading support, maybe? |
| 00:08.09 | kim_ | so like, perl lets you shoot yourself in the foot with a machine-gun |
| 00:08.10 | mwilson | Jacobo221: Don't look to me for debugging advice, I've gone back to one that works and I'm not letting that disaster of a maintainer install anything on my box without auditing first. |
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| 00:08.14 | mentor | anti-: Documentation/configure.help? |
| 00:08.17 | holycow | kim_, yeah thats what i got out of it, as a newb non coder type, i can safely say reading python code right off the start is fairly easy |
| 00:08.18 | caphuso | is using php then shooting in everyone else' foot? |
| 00:08.18 | mdh | kim_: only one of which actually works, and they're all unreadable 6 months later ;) |
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| 00:08.41 | holycow | i havent met very many languages that allow me that level of access, albeit, thats a dangerous concept in and of it self |
| 00:08.41 | kim_ | mdh, actually hmm, I can read some of my old perl code |
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| 00:08.45 | idnarhtim | caphuso: definitely |
| 00:08.48 | kim_ | you can actually write really nice code in perl too :-) |
| 00:09.08 | idnarhtim | I don't think perl scales well for large applications |
| 00:09.08 | Jacobo221 | mwilson: no, I was just telling you for your information. not looking for debuging advice. thanks for your help although :-) |
| 00:09.18 | holycow | kim_, i bet most of unreadablity of early code is due to not proper commenting :) |
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| 00:09.20 | caphuso | yes, you can make a perl program look like python, if you want to (except the $@%{}, of course) |
| 00:09.27 | kim_ | anyway, I suck at oses and am decent at coding (yeah that's what they all say ;-P ) |
| 00:09.28 | mdh | what I think perl has going against it (for maintainability) is all the shortcuts |
| 00:09.38 | kim_ | holycow, you have got to see perl then |
| 00:09.40 | mdh | which, when you're on a deadline, you're inclined to take |
| 00:09.54 | kim_ | holycow, your code should be readable without comments, and then you comment it some more |
| 00:09.56 | idnarhtim | mdh: such as? |
| 00:09.59 | caphuso | mdh: so it's perl's fault that people are too stupid to read "perldoc perlvar"? |
| 00:10.06 | kim_ | holycow, that's sort of how it's sposed to be done :-) |
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| 00:10.38 | sin-bad | will 2.4.24 from testing run on woody? |
| 00:10.40 | kim_ | caphuso, even if you do read it, perl starts to look like line-noise if you go down that path ^^;; |
| 00:10.45 | mdh | idnarhtim: most things that start with $ ;) |
| 00:10.57 | holycow | kim_, i tried :( |
| 00:11.13 | kim_ | holycow, :-P |
| 00:11.18 | Jambon | tc: here now |
| 00:11.28 | idnarhtim | mdh: imho the only function of those is to make your code more succinct |
| 00:11.31 | mdh | caphuso: back up a bit.. some programmers have to be generalists hence they cannot afford to memorise the contents of "perldoc perlvar" |
| 00:11.43 | holycow | my failure is more of my fault than perls i'm sure |
| 00:11.49 | kim_ | mdh, thanks man. :-) |
| 00:11.50 | idnarhtim | mdh: typing a few chars less doesn't really speed up coding all that much ;) |
| 00:11.51 | tcsetattr | Jambon, it looks like you need to load the i810 kernel module |
| 00:12.00 | kim_ | idnarhtim, it slows coding down |
| 00:12.09 | caphuso | mdh: then they shouldn't be programming perl |
| 00:12.16 | caphuso | problem solved |
| 00:12.17 | Jambon | tc: my vid card is built in. does that make a difference? |
| 00:12.21 | idnarhtim | kim_: I suppose it depends on how much time you spend typing, and how much time you spend thinking ;) |
| 00:12.25 | mdh | idnarhtim: there's many tricks in perl that can save a *lot* of typing. |
| 00:12.34 | tcsetattr | doesn't matter now that we know the chipset |
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| 00:12.42 | caphuso | mdh: what's the point in forcing someone to use a language they don't grok? |
| 00:12.44 | mith | mdh: and ad 20x the normal time needed to maintain it |
| 00:12.57 | holycow | go tcsetattr go! :) |
| 00:13.00 | idnarhtim | mdh: they're almost all restricted to text processing I'd say |
| 00:13.00 | mdh | caphuso: perhaps they have no choice, because some system they are tasked to work on is written in perl, or is extensible in perl |
| 00:13.23 | tcsetattr | holycow, not too much confidence.. I don't know the name of the module he needs... maybe it's just i810 |
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| 00:13.28 | tcsetattr | jambon, try "modprobe i810" |
| 00:13.35 | ribnitz | caphuso: java was introduced here with the comment 'the quality of the libs is better'.. |
| 00:13.39 | Justin_ | you dont have to load i810 manually |
| 00:13.41 | Jambon | tc: as root? |
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| 00:13.59 | tcsetattr | Justin, here's his error message: <Jambon> (EE) GARTInit: Unable to open /dev/agpgart (No such device) |
| 00:14.11 | D0C_ | Hi *.* |
| 00:14.13 | Justin_ | hmm |
| 00:14.20 | mdh | caphuso: ideally, there is no point. but we don't live in an ideal world |
| 00:14.23 | *** join/#debian buht (~buht@h-69-3-124-91.SFLDMIDN.covad.net) |
| 00:14.26 | tcsetattr | seems he's missing some module, I just don't know which one |
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| 00:14.33 | Jambon | tc: i only have pci slots and the vid card is built in if that means anything |
| 00:14.34 | Justin_ | agpgart |
| 00:14.38 | buht | ?? unstable sources |
| 00:14.42 | caphuso | mdh: you're just blaming people's stupidity on perl |
| 00:14.44 | idnarhtim | Jambon: kernel 2.6? |
| 00:14.46 | ribnitz | D0C_: does user? |
| 00:14.48 | D0C_ | anyone have an idea how to fix a qt.pm error for KDE ? |
| 00:14.58 | \Igor\ | in WindowMaker, what is the purpose of the purpose of the button on the title bar right next to the iconization button? and how can I put it to good use? |
| 00:14.58 | mdh | if we did, I'd be driving around in a Bentley Continental GT ... whenever my transporter pad was broken ;) |
| 00:14.59 | Jambon | no 2.2.20 i think |
| 00:15.02 | buht | which is unstable? woody is stable right? |
| 00:15.10 | mentor | ~tell buht about releases |
| 00:15.18 | kim_ | caphuso, well, perl simply isn't paranoid :-) |
| 00:15.21 | ribnitz | buht: sarge is testing, sid is unstable |
| 00:15.21 | idnarhtim | Jambon: hrm, not familiar with 2.2, but you probably just need the 'agpgart' module |
| 00:15.37 | caphuso | mdh: what's next, proposing that hammers should be coated with foam so that people who only occasionally use them can't be injured as easily? |
| 00:15.40 | buht | ribnitz : thanks now i need to find the sources for unstable or sid |
| 00:15.44 | idnarhtim | Jambon: or do you have that already? |
| 00:15.45 | mdh | caphuso: not having a photographic memory for esoteric symbols doesn't make one stupid |
| 00:15.51 | D0C_ | sid rox |
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| 00:15.54 | Jambon | id: no clue |
| 00:15.55 | D0C_ | (o: |
| 00:15.56 | idnarhtim | mdh: it's really not that hard to look it up |
| 00:16.06 | mdh | idnarhtim: that's true |
| 00:16.08 | caphuso | mdh: that's a troll |
| 00:16.13 | daesotho | what's a good firewall for linux? |
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| 00:16.19 | tcsetattr | Jambon, try "modprobe agpgart" (as root) |
| 00:16.19 | D0C_ | iptables |
| 00:16.20 | mdh | caphuso: as is calling people stupid |
| 00:16.21 | caphuso | mdh: you certainly don't need a photographic memory |
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| 00:16.22 | ribnitz | buht: general idea is if you need ot ask, sid is a bad choice |
| 00:16.33 | ribnitz | ~tell buht about sid |
| 00:16.34 | daesotho | i'd like to block all ports except 22 to incoming connections |
| 00:16.36 | kim_ | HEH! |
| 00:16.36 | mdh | rather, calling people stupid because they don't specialise in perl |
| 00:16.37 | buht | ribnitz : i agree, but im sick of woody limitations |
| 00:16.41 | kim_ | Killed kde |
| 00:16.41 | caphuso | mdh: forcing people who can't program in perl to program in perl is stupid, no matter what you say |
| 00:16.44 | kim_ | killed kdm |
| 00:16.47 | kim_ | hurrah hurrah! |
| 00:16.47 | buht | ribnitz : donna put sid on a sparc5 i dont care much about |
| 00:16.48 | caphuso | mdh: i didn't do that |
| 00:16.50 | kim_ | got windowmaker :-) |
| 00:16.57 | idnarhtim | mdh: and looking up $! is pretty much the same as looking up what map() does in Python, or whatever |
| 00:17.09 | mentor | ~tell buht about sources.list |
| 00:17.12 | mentor | ~tell buht about mirrors |
| 00:17.16 | Jambon | tc: can't locate module |
| 00:17.17 | buht | mentor : i msgd apt that :) |
| 00:17.21 | ribnitz | kim_: and now you use what? gnome? |
| 00:17.30 | mdh | idnarhtim: but "map" kinda gives the game away, at least to english-fluent programmers. $! is meaning less |
| 00:17.30 | buht | mentor : no sid sources listed |
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| 00:17.40 | everton | what is the debhelper script that uses package.files/package.dirs (if any) ? |
| 00:17.47 | tcsetattr | Jambon, it sounds like maybe the debian 2.2 kernel doesn't support AGP? I haven't used 2.2 in a while |
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| 00:17.58 | leahpar | Anthro, it's seem that i must put something in the append of lilo |
| 00:17.59 | mentor | buht: Well, you can read the man page and work it out then. |
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| 00:18.14 | buht | k |
| 00:18.15 | buht | thx :) |
| 00:18.18 | Jambon | tc: would it need to if i don't have agp slots? |
| 00:18.23 | tcsetattr | and I think you should be able to run the X server even if the kernel acceleration isn't there... but maybe not |
| 00:18.24 | idnarhtim | mdh: well, I suppose it might be easier to remember what map() does once you've looked it up |
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| 00:18.49 | leahpar | some time ago i use append="ether=0,0x330,eth0 ether=0x310,eth1" for two old 3c503 |
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| 00:19.01 | tcsetattr | Jambon, your video is using an AGP interface. It's just hard wired on the motherboard instead of on a separate card. |
| 00:19.26 | cef | Jambon: you might find that you haven't got a /dev/agpgart device node |
| 00:19.27 | leahpar | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:19.30 | Jambon | tc: ok. i could update the kernel, but then i think i'd need a new boot disk because i boot from one |
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| 00:19.39 | D0C_ | bbl |
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| 00:19.58 | idnarhtim | cef: I would think that "/dev/agpgart (No such device)" means the device node is there, but not "connected" |
| 00:20.02 | Justin_ | leahpar: you are very much confused |
| 00:20.02 | tcsetattr | oh no, I'm not going through that again. |
| 00:20.09 | holycow | hehehe :) |
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| 00:20.15 | Jambon | tc: well it's working now |
| 00:20.19 | holycow | rofl :) |
| 00:20.22 | tcsetattr | Jambon, boot floppies suck. They suck! |
| 00:20.23 | Justin_ | leahpar: you don't need to put anything anywhere |
| 00:20.34 | cef | idnarhtim: X doesn't always produce the best of error messages |
| 00:20.43 | Jambon | tc: i know. but i'm satisfied doing it that way. it's safe |
| 00:20.48 | holycow | Jambon, *high five* thats some funny stuff dude :) |
| 00:20.58 | tcsetattr | not another one of these "installed on hdb and too stubborn to put lilo on hda" people... dual booting sucks. |
| 00:21.35 | Freedomzen | hi can anyone offer me assistance I have just upgraded from sarge to sid and also upgraded my kernel to 2.6.2 in the process upon reboot kdm fails to start so I check /var/log/xfre86.log and it says it could not initialze the core pointer xfopenserial /dev/psaux no such file or directory |
| 00:21.36 | Freedomzen | ? |
| 00:21.51 | Justin_ | !tell Freedomzen about 2.6 |
| 00:22.01 | idnarhtim | tcsetattr: well, I'm one of these "grub refuses to boot off my HDDs and I'm too stubborn to use lilo" people |
| 00:22.05 | holycow | Jambon, is cool go down to a used computer store and grab an old hd, buy a couple of hard drive trays so you can remove your hds ... then play, ihope your not learning by dualbooting |
| 00:22.09 | Jambon | tc: ya well it works now. that's what matters. i'll make another if i have to. provided that doesn't involve tons of lines of code |
| 00:22.19 | lcolleton | !tell lcolleton about 2.6 |
| 00:22.23 | *** join/#debian jwal (~jwal@81-86-242-138.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 00:22.27 | mdh | thebug: what's good about it? |
| 00:22.44 | xeon_ | What would be a good configuration with PHP5 learning PHP + MySQL + XML? --with-mysql --with-xsl? |
| 00:23.08 | thebug | mdh: well, for some reason the newer versions of X support higher refresh rates on my monitor...X 4.1 only did 60hz with my ATI card for _no_ apparent reason |
| 00:23.18 | Endymion___ | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:23.23 | Jambon | santusbovus: i have an old hd. that's what i'm on now |
| 00:23.29 | tony_wt | Jambon: just curious what was it |
| 00:23.54 | Jambon | tony: tc will have to explain that |
| 00:23.57 | holycow | Endymion___, typically you would write a perl or python script to generate all those static pages |
| 00:24.03 | Blissex | Endymion___: yes, there is a way. But it all depends on which system you use to process the dynamic source. |
| 00:24.21 | *** part/#debian Freedomzen (~rob@ip68-1-175-43.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 00:24.24 | tcsetattr | tony, we haven't solved it yet. But his error is /dev/agpgart No such device |
| 00:24.25 | holycow | its a common technique, you can setup a cron job to run the scripts |
| 00:24.38 | *** join/#debian jango (~fra@81.208.60.197) |
| 00:24.42 | Endymion___ | holycow: More or less "do it yourself from scratch"? |
| 00:24.56 | holycow | yes, as all websites tend to be from scratch |
| 00:25.00 | holycow | if your using a templating system... |
| 00:25.07 | Endymion___ | Blissex: Sorry, what do you mean exactly? |
| 00:25.09 | holycow | it may have that capacity, but i havent seen one yet |
| 00:25.10 | tony_wt | tcsetattr: I thought he said it works ? |
| 00:25.21 | jango | hi |
| 00:25.36 | tcsetattr | he said his boot floppy works. not his X server |
| 00:25.54 | tony_wt | oh ok |
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| 00:26.02 | caphuso | mdh: i just checked, perl 5.8 has about 30 of the short variables, 7 of them are only used for formats (which hardly anybody bothers with), a few are deprecated and at about 10 are strictly guru stuff, which leaves max. 15 of those variables you should know. it really doesn't need a mastermind to remember those |
| 00:26.08 | Blissex | Endymion___: some dynamic content generation systems will automatically generate a static HTML page and leave it alone until the dynamic bit gets updated, and then regenerate it. |
| 00:26.15 | Endymion___ | holycow: The question is because indeed I read that generating all the time a webpage that the contents is always the same (could be generated beforehand) is a waste of cpu and I have to agree with that. |
| 00:26.27 | *** part/#debian mario (~mario@garryf.plus.com) |
| 00:26.35 | *** part/#debian dolson (~dana@Toronto-HSE-ppp3727277.sympatico.ca) |
| 00:26.36 | Blissex | Endymion___: others will need to be to be configured or modified to do the same. |
| 00:26.45 | Jondab | it's working :D |
| 00:26.48 | jango | i'm sorry i have a question 4 u...have you a free moment? |
| 00:26.49 | holycow | Blissex, any names of such systems come to mind? |
| 00:26.51 | Endymion___ | Blissex: I think that's more or less what I thought. Could you give me examples of such systems? |
| 00:26.51 | *** join/#debian juanarko (~juanarko@80.28.127.231) |
| 00:26.59 | Jondab | wow... gnome looks so kewl |
| 00:27.04 | tcsetattr | I don't know this AGP driver stuff. |
| 00:27.06 | holycow | Endymion___, it is, its also slower |
| 00:27.19 | *** join/#debian salsh (~slash@dyn-212-47-241-73.ppp.tiscali.fr) |
| 00:27.19 | jango | i'm sorry 4 my english but i'm italian and i'm studing it yet |
| 00:27.24 | Jambon | so am i fucked? |
| 00:27.29 | Endymion___ | Blissex: Like this "content generation systems"? I just have and idea and was wondering about it. |
| 00:27.29 | tcsetattr | especially in 2.2 |
| 00:27.38 | jango | i don't know...:-) |
| 00:27.47 | holycow | Jambon, are you dual booting? |
| 00:27.51 | tony_wt | Jambon: no i don't think so |
| 00:27.59 | Jambon | holycow: ya |
| 00:28.00 | cef | Jambon: get a newer kernel methinks.. what m/board & video combo you got? |
| 00:28.05 | tcsetattr | nah, Jambon, at most it'll be a couple of days before someone shows up who knows about AGP in 2.2.x |
| 00:28.07 | mdh | poor branden finally gets 4.3 in as 4.4 is about to be released. |
| 00:28.17 | mdh | its a neverending cycle |
| 00:28.18 | *** join/#debian luctor (~luctor@12.80-202-21.nextgentel.com) |
| 00:28.29 | Jambon | tc: is it hard to make a boot disk from the terminal? |
| 00:28.31 | juanarko | I've installed the woody right now succesfully. Does I need to compile my kernel for using my IDE CDRW ? |
| 00:28.36 | Endymion___ | holycow: Like, if I could generate all homepages in my computer (good cpu) and upload them to a server (bad cpu). For the latter, it would be wonderful, I guess... |
| 00:28.37 | Jambon | tc: in case i need a new kernel |
| 00:28.41 | mjj29 | mdh: yeah, but noone will use 4.4 |
| 00:28.42 | jango | i have a problem with knoppix...when x server stard there is a message: |
| 00:28.43 | cef | mdh: least he got 4.3 out before 4.4. not that I think we'll see 4.4 |
| 00:28.46 | Blissex | Endymion___: there are loads of simple to complex content generation/management systems, from WML to Zope to even further layers like Plone. |
| 00:28.54 | holycow | Jambon, oh ouch, tough way to learn, yeah what they said, if you decide to use a dedicated hd to experimenting, on the first screen during setup press f3 and select bf24 to install the 2.4 kernel |
| 00:28.56 | mjj29 | untill they change the licence back at least |
| 00:28.57 | mdh | ah yeah, the licensing issue... |
| 00:29.00 | jango | "warning out of range" |
| 00:29.12 | Blissex | jango: people here dislike queries about Knoppix when there is a #knoppix channel. |
| 00:29.14 | Endymion___ | Blissex: *taking note* |
| 00:29.20 | holycow | if you intend on trying to replace the current kernel on your dual boot system i cannot be of any help :/ |
| 00:29.22 | jango | i'm soory |
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| 00:29.35 | *** join/#debian [brakits] (stephen@undef.net) |
| 00:29.59 | jango | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:30.00 | Blissex | Endymion___: all these things go from simple preprocessors (e.g. WML) to gigantic frameworks with layout engine (like Plone). |
| 00:30.09 | luctor | my mouse stopped working after reboot, is it x-windows-core problem ? |
| 00:30.10 | holycow | Jambon, you got quite far setting up a dual boot system without knowing a damn thing btw :) hehe thats kinda cool |
| 00:30.12 | cef | jango: aha! which guide? |
| 00:30.14 | mdh | jango: the guide is probably outdated |
| 00:30.17 | nicklauss | hello room. How do I specify which debian services are loaded at startup time? |
| 00:30.22 | tcsetattr | he's not done yet |
| 00:30.25 | jango | i'm sorry... |
| 00:30.31 | kim_ | got a working debian system npw |
| 00:30.34 | Blissex | jango: ehehehehe! People here _hate_ Knoppix users, because they are Debian purists. |
| 00:30.34 | jango | good night:-) |
| 00:30.38 | mdh | jango: not your fault :) |
| 00:30.39 | kim_ | what more could I want? |
| 00:30.41 | cef | jango: not your fault.. |
| 00:30.50 | Jambon | holycow: the irony is that all it reqired, after a month of frettin about, is to install woody and make a boot disk d8= |
| 00:30.52 | caphuso | nicklauss: configure the appropriate /etc/rc?.d/ directory and /etc/inetd.conf to your taste |
| 00:30.54 | jango | thanks...bye |
| 00:31.06 | holycow | hehe jam :) |
| 00:31.06 | tcsetattr | he's going to finish configuring X, if I have to kill him and cut the hands off the corpse and use them to type the commands myself |
| 00:31.08 | kim_ | in the end I still needed to compile stuff, but what the hey :-P |
| 00:31.15 | holycow | but you learned a whole lot tho, thats awesome |
| 00:31.24 | *** part/#debian stonie_ (~blupp@d005190.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 00:31.28 | Endymion___ | Blissex: I suppose for what I want, just incluse the same menus over and over, and once in a while add a new .html somewhere, this WML perhaps should do it! |
| 00:31.34 | *** part/#debian jango (~fra@81.208.60.197) |
| 00:31.36 | kim_ | holycow, nice meeting you :-) |
| 00:31.40 | piingouin | when i make a TOP i got in the list an : aio/0 lauch by root and whith the nice value at -10 |
| 00:31.41 | tcsetattr | let's find out exactly what kernel you're running... |
| 00:31.41 | nicklauss | Jambon: is there any utility for configuring automatically? |
| 00:31.42 | piingouin | what is it ? |
| 00:31.52 | tcsetattr | Jamon, do a "cat /proc/version" |
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| 00:31.55 | holycow | Jambon, the first shots at linux tend to be frustrating because you know youve run into a problem, just don't know what question to ask or even what the problem is, so its tough but good job |
| 00:31.58 | holycow | kim_, likewise :) |
| 00:32.13 | Endymion___ | Blissex: I think now I have some guidelines to go for. Thank you very much! |
| 00:32.23 | Endymion___ | holycow: Thank you for the help! |
| 00:32.30 | Jambon | tc: 2.2.20-idepci |
| 00:32.35 | Blissex | Endymion___: WML is used to do the Debian website itself, so it cant be all wrong. |
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| 00:33.23 | Jambon | holycow: thanks. it's great to hear that someone knows what i've gone through |
| 00:33.37 | juanarko | I've installed the woody right now succesfully. Does I need to compile my kernel for using my IDE CDRW ? |
| 00:33.44 | Jambon | tc: is that what you needed? |
| 00:33.45 | idnarhtim | Justin_: heh |
| 00:33.50 | fearl | Justin_: psst, /me is an action, 'he', not 'I' |
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| 00:33.59 | holycow | jambon, only a few months ago |
| 00:34.01 | fearl | Justin_: think 'third person' :) |
| 00:34.07 | Endymion___ | Blissex: I'm doing some experiments with a 386 and I'm going to make debian (latest stable) run in it. And if I put it to serve a very low bandwidth homepage (just because won't be many visitors anyway) I guessed something like thttpd and static html could do just fine. Just for the information. |
| 00:34.09 | tcsetattr | juanarko, you need to get a 2.6 kernel, or you need to enable ide-scsi. Your choice. |
| 00:34.16 | holycow | actully i tried every other distro, and unfortunately used suse for a while |
| 00:34.18 | Justin_ | pfft |
| 00:34.25 | idnarhtim | why does everyone think that a dual-boot setup is so complex? |
| 00:34.28 | holycow | you started right with debian i think |
| 00:34.46 | fearl | idnarhtim: because no one reads docs... |
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| 00:34.53 | juanarko | tcsetattr: thanks for your information, but, by default, is not enable this option on the woody's kernel? :) |
| 00:35.07 | piingouin | juanarko, modconf |
| 00:35.12 | *** join/#debian knoppix (~knoppix@m160.net81-65-16.noos.fr) |
| 00:35.12 | idnarhtim | the only difference between dual-boot and a dedicated setup is that you possibly need to resize partitions to make space (not necessary with a second HDD), and figure out how to tell your boot loader to chainload your other OS |
| 00:35.18 | *** join/#debian MaDoYaN (~GoDs@ppp-67-125-119-16.dialup.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 00:35.20 | Jambon | holycow: although this is weird, i chose debian based on ideology. it was stable and free. Debian seemed the only one to stay true to the GNU ideals. I liked that |
| 00:35.29 | [brakits] | gentoo? |
| 00:35.31 | Blissex | Endymion___: thats what I have done myself, even if I occasionally fell like switching to WLML or soemthing similar if I wanted some standard linkbar top/bottom. But sometimes just '.shtml' is enough, and the overhead is pretty small. |
| 00:35.37 | Freedomzen | can anyone help me out with my question I have no /dev/psaux |
| 00:35.51 | juanarko | piingouin: if my CDRW is a normal one (LG), wich module does I need? |
| 00:35.58 | Justin_ | Freedomzen: use 2.4? |
| 00:35.59 | idnarhtim | Freedomzen: you mean /dev/psaux doesn't exist at all? |
| 00:35.59 | *** mode/#debian [+l 678] by debhelper |
| 00:36.05 | piingouin | juanarko, ide-scsi |
| 00:36.13 | piingouin | juanarko, and scsi emulation |
| 00:36.18 | juanarko | piingouin: thanks! |
| 00:36.24 | Freedomzen | Justin_ mo 2.6 idnarhtim yes not at all |
| 00:36.29 | holycow | Jambon, and i think its the right reason to choose it |
| 00:36.30 | Freedomzen | mo/no |
| 00:36.37 | dspencek | sometimes when i ssh into another computer on my internal network and leave it alone for a while, then come back and type something, it takes about 5 of 10 seconds for me to see what i typed, anyone know why? |
| 00:36.41 | idnarhtim | Freedomzen: cd /dev; ./MAKEDEV psaux |
| 00:36.42 | piingouin | juanarko, check also google for the right syntax for the line to add to you /etc/lilo.conf |
| 00:36.43 | Justin_ | Freedomzen: no, i mean you should use 2.4 |
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| 00:37.02 | juanarko | piingouin: OK, I have already done this before :) |
| 00:37.07 | piingouin | good |
| 00:37.15 | piingouin | so you're ready to burn |
| 00:37.18 | juanarko | yeah, dankon! |
| 00:37.20 | juanarko | :) |
| 00:37.22 | holycow | Jambon, once i clued in to why debian philosophy is important, i made my choice too, but frankly, debian is the easiest distro to work with |
| 00:37.31 | mdh | I chose debian because it was good |
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| 00:37.46 | idnarhtim | to be honest, Debian's ideology / philosophy is great, but I'm with holycow on this one; Debian was the only distro I could find that actually made sense |
| 00:37.48 | mdh | ideology is of secondary importance |
| 00:37.50 | holycow | it doesnt lock you into a sandbox that some company decided to setup |
| 00:38.15 | holycow | idnarhtim, that was the thing that was the last straw for me on suse, nothing they did made any sense |
| 00:38.23 | *** part/#debian myitcv (~myitcv@81-178-232-102.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 00:38.25 | idnarhtim | since then, Gentoo is probably the closest any distro has come, and it still strikes me as a bit hackish |
| 00:38.28 | MaDoYaN | anybody can help me installing debian |
| 00:38.38 | holycow | and the documentation explaining what they did and why isn't there, debian just works, stuff is where its supposed to be basically |
| 00:38.43 | mdh | idnarhtim: gentoo is much much younger and has fewer developers |
| 00:38.47 | idnarhtim | I mean sure, you get some Debian packages that really suck, but they're probably not worth using in the first place ;) |
| 00:38.53 | idnarhtim | mdh: sure |
| 00:39.03 | [brakits] | gentoo has one of the best package managers ive ever seen |
| 00:39.06 | holycow | idnarhtim, hahaha *cough* phpgroupware *cough* |
| 00:39.07 | [brakits] | its like ports but good |
| 00:39.07 | holycow | hehe :) |
| 00:39.13 | mdh | its possibly my second favourite distro though, if you don't count live-cd ones like phlak and knoppix ;) |
| 00:39.13 | thyhorror | Question - i installed k3d , it says it needs dcrdao to run as root and to run k3dsetup , but setup needs kdesu . can't find the package for that . any help ? |
| 00:39.14 | Jambon | i just got sick of windows and their "updates" and "security". I'm personally not going to let 1984 come any faster thatn it already is. |
| 00:39.14 | Freedomzen | idnarhtim "don't know how to makedev "psaux"" |
| 00:39.23 | holycow | thats a joke, not complainin about someone elses free work btw :) |
| 00:39.25 | *** join/#debian getPkgQuick (~knoppix@AS53-01-122.cas-kit.golden.net) |
| 00:39.29 | idnarhtim | Freedomzen: not sure then |
| 00:39.31 | Jambon | sure games are nice, but i'm hoping that changes too |
| 00:39.35 | Freedomzen | allright |
| 00:39.36 | *** join/#debian opti (~opti@ip68-104-244-234.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 00:39.37 | Freedomzen | :/ |
| 00:39.50 | Justin_ | Freedomzen: either actually bother to read the links you werent sent, or go back to 2.4 |
| 00:39.51 | *** part/#debian Kraig (~KraigE@200.91.70.82) |
| 00:39.54 | idnarhtim | [brakits]: I prefer dpkg / apt / etc. by far ;) |
| 00:40.01 | opti | mwilson: a couple of questions on your screenshots. First of all, what do you use for the window list at bottom? |
| 00:40.01 | Justin_ | er were |
| 00:40.04 | ribnitz | Jambon: but dont forget linux has something windows has to a lesser extent: root exploits. |
| 00:40.04 | idnarhtim | mdh: I don't have the time to compile everything from source anyhow |
| 00:40.12 | holycow | Jambon, you have the same security cycle on linux, its actually faster paced and more security updates as there is a ton more software here available for free |
| 00:40.15 | *** part/#debian MaDoYaN (~GoDs@ppp-67-125-119-16.dialup.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 00:40.20 | ribnitz | Jambon: so keeping in touch with security is crucial. |
| 00:40.24 | [brakits] | not me the configurabilty of portage is far superior imo |
| 00:40.24 | holycow | that part we wont be able to get rid of for a long time |
| 00:40.35 | mdh | idnarhtim: that's a problem using the source ports. I used to run openbsd on an old p100 |
| 00:40.39 | idnarhtim | [brakits]: do you have something specific in mind? |
| 00:40.44 | *** join/#debian jester- (~jester@adsl-ull-184-169.42-151.net24.it) |
| 00:40.52 | mdh | compiling X11 would take a while ;) |
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| 00:41.00 | idnarhtim | mdh: right |
| 00:41.04 | Jambon | holycow: by "security updates" i meant M$ disallowing all sorts of things you can do because of copyrights and stuff |
| 00:41.25 | idnarhtim | mdh: tbh, the only other OS/distro/combination I've ever really tried to use in earnest was FreeBSD |
| 00:41.26 | Jambon | security i know i need |
| 00:41.30 | ribnitz | Jambon: there's also compyright in debian, ya know. |
| 00:41.36 | mdh | [brakits]: bingo. its be nice to integrate that into debian somehow |
| 00:41.40 | holycow | Jambon, the real reason for using linux is freedom however, which i think your alluding to, however the price of freedom is responsibility and knowledge |
| 00:41.44 | [brakits] | well 2 things, one i can remove and add things that are specific, ie no ldap support in the whole distro, i also like the gcc option configurability |
| 00:41.46 | idnarhtim | mdh: ran it for almost a year on my laptop, before ditching it and going (back) to Debian |
| 00:41.50 | Justin_ | ribnitz: yeah, windows just has those "lesser" system exploits |
| 00:41.52 | holycow | Jambon, exactly me too |
| 00:41.56 | Jambon | holycow: well said |
| 00:42.08 | idnarhtim | [brakits]: oh ok |
| 00:42.10 | fearl | Anyone care to enlighten me as to why GNOME and KDE might take forever to get through their splash screen's here? I put it down to KDE3.2 before, but GNOME 2.4 is doing the same thing (pretty much nothing) |
| 00:42.21 | mdh | [brakits]: for me its vim. the debian packages don't allow options that upstream allows. eg, you can't get python AND perl AND X11 support |
| 00:42.24 | ribnitz | Justin_: yes, like everything writing to the (mostly undocumented) registry. |
| 00:42.24 | idnarhtim | [brakits]: you can do the second part by compiling your own Debian packages with apt-build, by the way |
| 00:42.26 | getPkgQuick | when I do "apt-get install", sometimes I have to "apt-get update" which takes a long time on dialup. Can I just quickly get the packages I want? |
| 00:42.28 | *** part/#debian Freedomzen (~rob@ip68-1-175-43.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 00:42.40 | *** part/#debian jester- (~jester@adsl-ull-184-169.42-151.net24.it) |
| 00:42.43 | caphuso | getPkgQuick: no |
| 00:42.46 | idnarhtim | mdh: yeah, that is a bit of a problem |
| 00:43.04 | tcsetattr | ok, here's the deal. 2.2.20 has AGP support, but Debian's 2.2.20-idepci doesn't include it. |
| 00:43.05 | mdh | my claim to fame in the BSD world is patching the vim port to permit that ;) |
| 00:43.08 | xsdg | fearl: you may want to use XFCE4 instead (www.xfce.org) |
| 00:43.08 | holycow | Jambon, welcome to debian anywhoo :) |
| 00:43.16 | *** join/#debian shlomil (~shlomil@212.199.219.7.forward.012.net.il) |
| 00:43.18 | [brakits] | well the first part is really good for building compact distros from the ground up imo. i have a small hd on my laptop so i dont get extra kruft |
| 00:43.19 | idnarhtim | getPkgQuick: the problem is, apt needs the package lists that apt-get downloads in order to know where to get the packages you're trying to install |
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| 00:43.27 | Jambon | holycow: merci beaucoup |
| 00:43.30 | xsdg | fearl: it's sweet, but doesn't wallow in memory like the other two |
| 00:43.37 | tcsetattr | mdh: I hate that debian doesn't have a ytalk package that doesn't depend on X :) |
| 00:43.37 | mdh | I went the whole hog and made all the then-current vim compile options port-configurable |
| 00:43.40 | ribnitz | xsdg: the debian package still isn't is it? |
| 00:43.50 | idnarhtim | incidentally, is there any way to update only package listings via rsync without using apt-proxy? |
| 00:43.53 | xsdg | ribnitz: huh? |
| 00:44.01 | Krisso | can any1 tell me how i can update my punkbuster client / quake 3 in linux ? |
| 00:44.10 | Krisso | i get kicked from every server i connect to |
| 00:44.21 | fearl | xsdg: I am not looking for an alternative desktop, I am wondering why the ones I like are acting strangely |
| 00:44.22 | greycat | jee i wunder y |
| 00:44.22 | theturtle | hi, i have a general question, anyone ever seen a server side irc chat webpage, something along the lines of a bulletin board irc client |
| 00:44.23 | mdh | idnarhtim: find an rsync-able debina mirror and "just do it" |
| 00:44.24 | *** join/#debian noss (~cs@c193-150-236-108.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 00:44.30 | ribnitz | xsdg: there's no (working) xfce4 package becauase of a (major) problem with one of the packages. |
| 00:44.33 | ribnitz | iirc |
| 00:44.37 | idnarhtim | mdh: but... how? |
| 00:44.41 | Justin_ | Krisso: google.com/search?q=pbweb.x86 |
| 00:44.43 | fearl | xsdg: XFce is unintuitive to me to use |
| 00:44.46 | getPkgQuick | isn't there some place that I can search for a package without using my package lists? like just go to some ftp website where I do things manually? |
| 00:44.50 | xsdg | ribnitz: if you're talking about what I think you are, that was fixed months ago |
| 00:44.53 | Jambon | so before this becomes #debian-philosophy, what should i do about said problem? |
| 00:45.08 | mdh | rsync -a debian.mirror:/pub/debian/pools/sid/main/Packages.gz your/local/cache/ |
| 00:45.17 | tcsetattr | Jambon, if you're still here... you're going to have to change kernels, or get XFree86 to stop trying to access agpgart |
| 00:45.18 | ribnitz | xsdg: so it may even be in sarge? ;) |
| 00:45.20 | Krisso | Justin_, i tried. but it says something about "Segmentination fault" when it has converted the htms to so's |
| 00:45.23 | xsdg | ribnitz: I'm running the latest in SID |
| 00:45.24 | *** join/#debian fishy (~fishy@adsl-211-108-32.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:45.26 | idnarhtim | mdh: oh, you mean manually |
| 00:45.28 | mdh | idnarhtim: personally I'd write a little script. well, actually personalyl I use apt-proxy ;) |
| 00:45.33 | xsdg | ribnitz: aah... possibly |
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| 00:45.40 | caphuso | getPkgQuick: that's stupid. you'd have to handle all dependancies manually |
| 00:45.43 | idnarhtim | mdh: doing it manually is a lot harder than just apt-get update ;) |
| 00:46.01 | Justin_ | Krisso: it works for me |
| 00:46.06 | mdh | idnarhtim: thats why you script it, so you just execute that script to update the package listings |
| 00:46.08 | caphuso | getPkgQuick: and that can easily be a dependancy tree involving several dozen packages |
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| 00:46.13 | bucky | getPkgQuick, you can do a search here http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages |
| 00:46.14 | Krisso | Justin_, you just execute it and thats it ? |
| 00:46.15 | Jambon | tc: so since my kernel is on a floppy how will i do that? |
| 00:46.19 | idnarhtim | mdh: I'm asking because that would probably help getPkgQuick out; I find rsync'ing the lists much faster than downloading the whole bang shoot again |
| 00:46.23 | Justin_ | Krisso: yup, takes forever |
| 00:46.30 | Ra1stlin_ | Krisso: cd ~/.q3a/pb/ and then ./pbweb.x86 |
| 00:46.30 | mdh | idnarhtim: especially considering there's more than one package list to get for a complete update... |
| 00:46.31 | getPkgQuick | caphuso: this is a small package -- I'll do the full "apt-get update" when I handle a bigger package. |
| 00:46.32 | tcsetattr | Jambon, what kind of cpu do you have? |
| 00:46.40 | Krisso | Justin_, in your ~user/.q3a/pb/ dir right ? |
| 00:46.42 | Jambon | tc: 1.1ghz Celeron |
| 00:46.48 | *** join/#debian nextime (~nextime@213.198.155.21) |
| 00:46.48 | salsh | somebody knows what i must do, when i ping my gateway it's writen "ping: sendto: Network is unreachable" |
| 00:46.52 | halojoker | anyone know how to get hub.c errors to stop printing the the screen ? |
| 00:46.56 | tcsetattr | ok, I believe that'd be in the 686 family |
| 00:47.11 | mdh | idnarhtim: perhaps restart the thread for an rsync method for apt... |
| 00:47.13 | bucky | salsh, use the ip address instead |
| 00:47.27 | mdh | the trouble is though, not all upstreams support rsync |
| 00:47.27 | Krisso | Ra1stlin_, yeah but it says something like "Segmentination fault" |
| 00:47.35 | mdh | its kinda heavy on the server end |
| 00:47.43 | ribnitz | xsdg: mcs-plugins and panel have rc bugs. xffm4 too |
| 00:47.46 | Ra1stlin_ | Krisso: thats not good |
| 00:47.52 | mdh | planetmirror had a fair few teething probs |
| 00:47.52 | idnarhtim | mdh: that's not a problem any more than the fact that not all upstreams support FTP and HTTP |
| 00:47.54 | [brakits] | salsh do you have a linklight? |
| 00:47.58 | Krisso | Ra1stlin_, you know what to do ? |
| 00:48.02 | xsdg | ribnitz: hrm |
| 00:48.06 | idnarhtim | mdh: or am I misinterpreting "upstreams"? |
| 00:48.14 | mdh | I think they have a dedicated rsync system or two now |
| 00:48.28 | ribnitz | xsdg: so no xfce4 in testing. |
| 00:48.47 | *** join/#debian rump (~rump@pcp03932219pcs.sthind01.mo.comcast.net) |
| 00:48.54 | tcsetattr | Jambon, apt-get install kernel-image-2.4.18-1-686 |
| 00:48.57 | mdh | idnarhtim: more support those though (since they're a requirement for a debian mirror) than rsync |
| 00:49.10 | Krisso | Ra1stlin_, it says in console "pbcl.cfg file not found" you got that one in your pb dir ? |
| 00:49.18 | bucky | ribnitz, i use this one http://people.debian.org/~madkiss/ |
| 00:49.19 | Jambon | tcsetattr: do i need to do anything special so it loads to a floppy? |
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| 00:49.30 | idnarhtim | mdh: sure |
| 00:49.48 | tcsetattr | we'll see, after it downloads... if you've set things up the way I think you have, the apt-get will update your floppy |
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| 00:49.58 | ribnitz | bucky: I have a dau community behind. they use xfce3 atm. canm't switch without explaining them. |
| 00:49.59 | Ra1stlin_ | Krisso: yes wait |
| 00:50.01 | tcsetattr | assuming it runs /sbin/installkernel |
| 00:50.02 | getPkgQuick | tnx |
| 00:50.08 | tcsetattr | one step at a time, man... |
| 00:50.13 | idnarhtim | mdh: well, with apt-proxy, you can get the listings from one place and the actual packages from another |
| 00:50.27 | Jambon | tcsetattr: so apt-get install is not going to automatically put it on the hd? |
| 00:50.34 | *** join/#debian jjh_ (~jjh@amy.cpe.abrn.al.charter.com) |
| 00:50.42 | tcsetattr | Jambon, it won't modify your hda, don't worry :) |
| 00:51.31 | halojoker | does anyone know the package name for usb support? i'd just like to remove it at this point |
| 00:51.40 | Jambon | well that's not the worry now. just if it'll put it on the hdd and i won't be able to boot because my floppy has only the 2.2.20 kernel |
| 00:51.40 | Justin_ | halojoker: hotplug? |
| 00:51.43 | idnarhtim | tcsetattr: heh. I avoided .deb kernels for ages because I was scared of it automatically running lilo or something daft... |
| 00:51.56 | jwal | Is it possible to get devfsd to change the ownership to root.cdrom of ([0-9]/)generic$ if $1/cd$ matches? |
| 00:52.18 | *** join/#debian arauko (~arauko@del-03-111.mbo.ras.cantv.net) |
| 00:52.18 | halojoker | justin: not sure, i'm just getting this stupid error "hub.c cannot enable port cable might be bad" over and over again |
| 00:52.35 | jwal | (please excuse my lax regexp syntax) |
| 00:52.39 | halojoker | justin: i'm using 2.4.18 |
| 00:52.43 | tcsetattr | well I don't use the .deb kernels either but I trust them not to do anything dangerous |
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| 00:52.57 | tcsetattr | that's the Debian way... if something dangerous has to be done, the package will tell you to do it manually |
| 00:53.03 | halojoker | justin: dont need any usb devices, just want the errors to stop |
| 00:53.08 | tcsetattr | and then you can fuck it up and have no one else to blame :) |
| 00:53.19 | mlaks | hi i am trying to seet up a local debian mirror and get error from anonftpsync ie lockfile:Try praying giving up on debian/Archive-Update-in-Progress-mitchell |
| 00:53.34 | idnarhtim | tcsetattr: I have this vague memory of horribly breaking things with a kernel package doing something like that |
| 00:53.39 | idnarhtim | tcsetattr: but that was probably just a nightmare ;) |
| 00:53.52 | idnarhtim | tcsetattr: I've been using make-kpkg quite happily now for a while |
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| 00:53.59 | Jambon | tcsetattr: so just dl the kernel? sure it won't go to the hdd? i'd be out if that happened |
| 00:54.04 | Justin_ | halojoker: mv /lib/modules/2.4.18*/kernel/drivers/usb ~ ? |
| 00:54.33 | Justin_ | halojoker: that would do it for sure since you don't seem to know how they are getting loaded |
| 00:54.35 | tcsetattr | Jamb, it's ok, do it! this is why it took you a month to get here. You're always second-guessing everyhing |
| 00:54.35 | halojoker | justin to where? or just delete them? |
| 00:54.52 | Justin_ | halojoker: ~ ? |
| 00:55.03 | Jambon | goody. couldn't find package |
| 00:55.12 | idnarhtim | tcsetattr: better safe than sorry... ;) |
| 00:55.19 | halojoker | justin: you said "mv" i was wondering where I am moving them too? or amd I just deleting them |
| 00:55.22 | tcsetattr | I'll do it myself, on my 2.4.25 system |
| 00:55.52 | tcsetattr | I'm sure it won't do anything dumb |
| 00:55.59 | *** mode/#debian [+l 670] by debhelper |
| 00:56.12 | Jambon | tcsetattr: i just did it. it couldn't find the package |
| 00:56.22 | Justin_ | halojoker: and i said ~ |
| 00:56.52 | *** join/#debian amblin_ (~youwish@user-24-214-103-31.knology.net) |
| 00:56.55 | mlaks | i tried to create the file myself, but it does not seem to work |
| 00:57.02 | *** join/#debian Knave (~Knave@238.93.33.65.cfl.rr.com) |
| 00:57.07 | tcsetattr | Jambon, do you have "security.debian.org" in your sources.list? |
| 00:57.19 | novapunkx | Can someone help me solve this? configure: error: Library requirements (gtk+-2.0 >= 1.3.1 libgnomeui-2.0 >= 1.96.0 libglade-2.0 >= 1.99.2) not met; consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if your libraries are in a nonstandard prefix so pkg-config can find them. |
| 00:57.20 | halojoker | justin : what does " ~ " mean |
| 00:57.29 | halojoker | i found the directory you were talking about |
| 00:57.39 | halojoker | shuld I just rm -rf that directory with usb? |
| 00:57.43 | Jambon | tcsetattr: i don't think so |
| 00:57.49 | xsdg | halojoker: do "echo ~" in a terminal |
| 00:57.50 | mdh | halojoker: ~ (tilde) is a shell shortcut for your home directory |
| 00:57.52 | Justin_ | halojoker: mv /lib/modules/2.4.18*/kernel/drivers/usb ~ ? |
| 00:58.04 | mdh | halojoker: which is also in the environment variable $HOME |
| 00:58.06 | halojoker | ok, good to know |
| 00:58.22 | mdh | halojoker: read a unix basics tutorial :) |
| 00:58.28 | tcsetattr | Jamb, you should put it in, so you'll have security updates. as long as you're getting a new kernel, you want the one without security holes, right? |
| 00:58.56 | *** join/#debian anonobomber (~anonobomb@64.91.103.29) |
| 00:59.10 | halojoker | justin: ok done |
| 00:59.23 | Jambon | tcsetattr: so use nano and add what to as far as lines? |
| 00:59.37 | tcsetattr | Jambon, add this: deb http://security.debian.org stable/updates main contrib |
| 00:59.42 | tcsetattr | Jambon, add this: deb http://security.debian.org stable/updates main contrib non-free |
| 00:59.49 | tcsetattr | (not both, just the second one) |
| 01:00.19 | kustu | to upgrade my version of libc6 is it sufficient to just download the new deb package and issuse dpkg -i <package> |
| 01:00.40 | halojoker | justin: rebooting, seems to have worked |
| 01:00.43 | mdh | I hate politics |
| 01:00.45 | Jambon | tcsetattr: so that's just for the kernel? i have testing for other stuff |
| 01:01.01 | *** join/#debian pingouiin (~pingouin@ALille-108-1-10-40.w81-248.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 01:01.01 | tcsetattr | no, it's not just for the kernel. oh you have testing... well never mind then |
| 01:01.13 | tcsetattr | testing doesn't have any security updates... |
| 01:01.20 | xeon_ | Yea, I got PHP5 snapshot working on Debian with Apache 2.0.49! |
| 01:01.23 | tcsetattr | I forgot you didn't use stable |
| 01:01.41 | Jambon | tc: i installed stable then switched the source |
| 01:01.43 | Jambon | sources |
| 01:01.45 | mdh | xeon_: congratulations |
| 01:02.01 | tcsetattr | Jambon, you need to do this to find a good kernel image: apt-cache search kernel-image |
| 01:02.26 | Jambon | tcsetattr: this is before i add those lines right? |
| 01:02.32 | tcsetattr | don't add those lines at all. |
| 01:02.38 | mdh | I love exploiting vendor relations to convert people from IE to mozilla/fireanimal |
| 01:02.49 | tcsetattr | you don't need security.debian.org for security updates if you use "testing"... |
| 01:03.29 | mdh | although it takes a lot of self-control to not immediately blurt out "no shit, sherlock" when they say "hey, this is SO much faster!" |
| 01:03.35 | Jambon | tcsetattr: so i get this big list of stuff |
| 01:03.49 | X-Ray55 | hey all whats a good e-mail client for deb? |
| 01:04.14 | tcsetattr | Jamb, you're looking for a 2.4 kernel with "686" on the end (the list shouldn't be extremely big... maybe a screenful) |
| 01:04.37 | mdh | X-Ray55: its a personal choice thing. my advice is to try them all out and go wth what you like |
| 01:04.41 | Jambon | tcsetattr: it is ok that i installed woody but changed the source to testing, right? |
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| 01:04.59 | *** part/#debian bobbyd (~rob@cpc2-broo3-3-0-cust181.renf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 01:05.07 | mdh | X-Ray55: my favs atm are mutt, evolution and thunderbird |
| 01:05.09 | tcsetattr | Jamb, that's ok as long as you understand the consequences... |
| 01:05.10 | *** join/#debian Fare (fare@lover.mine.nu) |
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| 01:05.22 | *** part/#debian MoTec (~MoTec@cs24386-69.satx.rr.com) |
| 01:05.28 | Jambon | tc: which is what? |
| 01:05.43 | thymus | Easy question. Can I downlaod a .deb file outside of apt-get and install it manually? |
| 01:05.55 | tcsetattr | Jamb, if you understand the meaning of the word "stable" (try an English dictionary) then you understand the difference between "stable" and "testing" well enough |
| 01:05.57 | X-Ray55 | mutt? |
| 01:06.04 | Fare | thymus: dpkg -i foo.deb |
| 01:06.08 | mdh | X-Ray55: apt-get install mutt :) |
| 01:06.10 | thymus | Mydialup connection bites the big one and I can't get tyhe whole paccakge at once. :/ |
| 01:06.18 | bucky | !+dict stable |
| 01:06.21 | dpkg | Dictionary 'stable' (2 shown; 19 total): In this region of chance, . . . where nothing is stable. --Rogers. ;; . Stable \Sta"ble\, n. [OF. estable, F. ['e]table, from L. stabulum, fr. stare to stand. See Stand, v. i.] A house, shed, or building, for beasts to lodge and feed in; esp., a building or apartment with stalls, for horses; as, a horse stable; a cow stable. --Milton.. |
| 01:06.22 | thymus | Fare: Ok. What about the dependices? |
| 01:06.27 | mdh | X-Ray55: its a text-based MUA from a guy who ended up patching elm (another text-based MUA) a lot |
| 01:06.35 | Fare | thymus: apt-get knows to resume file download from where it stopped |
| 01:06.46 | Jambon | tcsetattr: well the "stability" isn't the issue. will it work? |
| 01:06.47 | thymus | Fare: really? |
| 01:06.49 | Fare | yes |
| 01:06.52 | tcsetattr | Jambon, have you picked out a kernel yet? |
| 01:06.55 | thymus | Fare: BRB. |
| 01:07.11 | tcsetattr | I'd like to get this process moving. Stay with me. |
| 01:07.14 | mdh | X-Ray55: fast, supports threading, pgp/gpg, multiple boxes, pop, imap, ... |
| 01:07.19 | *** join/#debian mgrenon (~mgrenon@al-entrprse-cuda1-c4b-18.atlaga.adelphia.net) |
| 01:07.22 | Jambon | tcsetattr: i don't see any ending with 686. the list is longer than a screen and i don't know how to page up. |
| 01:07.22 | *** part/#debian Fare (fare@lover.mine.nu) |
| 01:07.52 | holycow | jambon, you will need to install a package called less |
| 01:07.54 | mgrenon | is there any advantage to building the kernel with the base drivers needed to boot and have all the rest of the drivers loaded as kernel modules? |
| 01:08.09 | thymus | Holly cow! Hes right! |
| 01:08.15 | thymus | Ok...apt-get is really impressing me |
| 01:08.17 | holycow | then you can do apt-cache search package | less and it will let you scroll up and down |
| 01:08.25 | holycow | thymus, *bows* ehehe :) |
| 01:08.30 | holycow | yaaay i got one right! |
| 01:08.46 | holycow | jambon so do apt-get install less |
| 01:08.52 | greycat | mistletoe cow! |
| 01:08.59 | holycow | ehehe :) hey grey |
| 01:09.01 | X-Ray55 | whats a good process viewer |
| 01:09.06 | tcsetattr | never mind, I'm looking at the list... you're right, that is a big list |
| 01:09.10 | greycat | X-Ray55: top, ps |
| 01:09.10 | thymus | holycow: LOL! Never tohught of using that as a nick! <LOL> |
| 01:09.17 | Jambon | holycow: done |
| 01:09.20 | thymus | Ok...now is ther a pine replacement? |
| 01:09.23 | *** part/#debian novapunkx (~novapunkx@12.149.234.231) |
| 01:09.29 | thymus | as word has it pine is not free |
| 01:09.33 | tcsetattr | Jambon, scrollback in the console is shift+PgUp. But never mind that, apt-get install kernel-image-2.4.24-1-686 |
| 01:09.34 | greycat | thymus: mutt |
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| 01:09.50 | holycow | what tcsetattr said :) |
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| 01:10.02 | *** part/#debian novapunkx (~novapunkx@12.149.234.231) |
| 01:10.02 | holycow | thymus, lol :) |
| 01:10.06 | kim_ | Hmm, I got almost everything working, but apt-get is only looking at stable |
| 01:10.14 | thymus | greycat: So mutt is like the nano for pico ? |
| 01:10.15 | beth | thymus: there are pine-like .muttrc files to use with mutt |
| 01:10.19 | ribnitz | the madkiss packages of xfce4 work fine so far? |
| 01:10.22 | greycat | thymus: better. |
| 01:10.29 | kim_ | how do I explain that it should look at unstable (and is there a dcent manual someplace where I can look this up properly instead of bother you folks? ) |
| 01:10.30 | mdh | thymus: mutt is the mutt for pine |
| 01:10.34 | tcsetattr | I assume that giving kernel-2.6.0 to Jambon would be like giving a lighted bottlerocket to a chimpanzee |
| 01:10.46 | beth | mutt is different from pine, it's not supposed to be a pico clone, it has a lot more features and general niftiness |
| 01:10.47 | thymus | tcsetattr: Howdy again |
| 01:10.51 | greycat | kim_: /msg dpkg sid faq |
| 01:10.55 | beth | s/pico clone/pine clone/ |
| 01:10.57 | holycow | hehehehe :) tc |
| 01:11.00 | kim_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:11.04 | kim_ | oops |
| 01:11.06 | X-Ray55 | to have 47 proceess running is that alot? |
| 01:11.09 | holycow | frankly, i'd pay to see that |
| 01:11.13 | X-Ray55 | for the average linxu server |
| 01:11.15 | mdh | thymus: mutt will use whatever editor you want... nano, pico, nvi, emacs, nedit, xemacs, gvim, yadda yadda |
| 01:11.19 | kim_ | X-Ray55, nope |
| 01:11.23 | X-Ray55 | okay cool |
| 01:11.25 | enki` | is there a way in a program such as eroaster to specify an ATAPI CDR instead of it try?ing to search the SCSI bus for one |
| 01:11.34 | mdh | X-Ray55: not really. 100 procs is probably a lot for a desktop |
| 01:11.40 | kim_ | X-Ray55, 80 is more normal |
| 01:11.41 | thymus | even vi ? |
| 01:11.44 | X-Ray55 | mdh: i c |
| 01:11.46 | mdh | sometimes 100 is a lot for a server ;) |
| 01:11.51 | beth | X-Ray55: I have 61 and this is just an underpowered laptop running firebird and a few xterms |
| 01:11.59 | mdh | thymus: of course. |
| 01:12.02 | X-Ray55 | ic |
| 01:12.05 | mgrenon | well is there? |
| 01:12.06 | *** join/#debian Dorado (~adaniels@async104.linknet.com.au) |
| 01:12.08 | Knave | I have a Winbond W89C940 Based ethernet adapter. . In debian, what module would be needed ? (i upgraded from 2.2 to 2.4.25 and i lost network :( ) |
| 01:12.12 | X-Ray55 | well it says out of 47 only 2 are running |
| 01:12.19 | thymus | mdh: well, as long as it can do nano/pico and vi I am happy |
| 01:12.27 | thymus | or is it vim nowadays? |
| 01:12.49 | kim_ | vim isn't installed by default, for shame for shame! |
| 01:12.53 | thymus | Ok..one more questyion. What do I do to get my USB mouse working? |
| 01:13.00 | Jambon | tcsetattr: so it's downloading |
| 01:13.04 | tcsetattr | kim_ just be thankful the default vi is not elvis |
| 01:13.04 | nda | any reason why Jambon hasn't stuck his face in the documentation? |
| 01:13.11 | mdh | thymus: debian comes with a lot of vi-esqu editors... vim, nvi, elvis, ... |
| 01:13.32 | mdh | thymus: plug the mouse in, move it around and press the buttons ;) |
| 01:13.50 | mgrenon | okay so im safe to assume that it has no advantages since i am getting a null response? |
| 01:13.53 | nda | Jambon, I'm afraid linux will do the same thing then |
| 01:13.53 | thymus | mdh: Tried that. Nothing happens |
| 01:13.56 | mdh | thymus: most stuff will accept /dev/input/mice now as the device to use |
| 01:14.01 | *** part/#debian Blissex (~Blissex@82-69-39-138.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 01:14.03 | *** join/#debian Sakura_Jr (sakura@sakura.iolinux.co.kr) |
| 01:14.04 | thymus | mdh: I think I may need a program called hotplug |
| 01:14.08 | Jambon | nda: i've learned quickly enough |
| 01:14.20 | mdh | thymus: just make sure you have usb support, usb mouse support, |
| 01:14.22 | kim_ | so if I get this right I actually want testing, rather than unstable? |
| 01:14.29 | mdh | hotplug isn't essential.. just kinda neat |
| 01:14.31 | Dorado | how can I change my keyboard mapping? |
| 01:14.51 | nda | Jambon, you won't get people to hold your hand through every step of the way |
| 01:14.51 | *** join/#debian SteveB (~SteveB@67-20-13-110.atlsfl.adelphia.net) |
| 01:14.55 | SteveB | how do i add a user? ;x |
| 01:14.57 | thymus | mdh: How do I check for usb support? |
| 01:15.04 | greycat | Dorado: /msg dpkg keymap |
| 01:15.06 | greycat | SteveB: adduser |
| 01:15.12 | greycat | thymus: dmesg, lsusb |
| 01:15.16 | SteveB | greycat: yeah i know but there is no such command ;P |
| 01:15.23 | greycat | SteveB: then you brokei t. |
| 01:15.28 | thymus | lsusb...DOH! |
| 01:15.28 | Jambon | nda: i'm not asking that. i just can't do some things because the documentation doesn't address it. i'll read the docs i understand |
| 01:15.35 | SteveB | greycat: interesting |
| 01:15.40 | greycat | !info adduser woody |
| 01:15.42 | thymus | -bash: lsusb: command not found |
| 01:15.48 | dpkg | adduser: (Add and remove users and groups), section base, is important. Version: 3.47 (woody), Packaged size: 70 kB, Installed size: 408 kB |
| 01:15.49 | greycat | !find bin/lsusb$ woody |
| 01:15.54 | *** join/#debian rafailow (~rafailow@rafailow.net1.nerim.net) |
| 01:15.54 | greycat | SteveB: see, it's in "base". |
| 01:15.57 | SteveB | oh |
| 01:15.58 | *** mode/#debian [+l 661] by debhelper |
| 01:16.04 | dpkg | Debian Search of 'bin/lsusb' (1 shown): (/usr/sbin/lsusb) in utils/usbutils. |
| 01:16.08 | nda | Jambon, that ain't how it works...but good luck |
| 01:16.25 | Dorado | thx greycat |
| 01:16.32 | thymus | so I need usbutils...got it ;> |
| 01:16.34 | enki` | is there a way in a program such as eroaster to specify an ATAPI CDR instead of it try?ing to search the SCSI bus for one |
| 01:16.54 | Dossy | ide-scsi ? :) |
| 01:16.58 | *** join/#debian fabinho (~fabinho@200.206.164.238) |
| 01:16.59 | mdh | thymus: you would also probably have a /proc/bus/usb with stuff in it |
| 01:17.05 | tcsetattr | hey, Dossy! |
| 01:17.10 | thymus | enki`: dunno... did you try ATAPI:0,0,0 |
| 01:17.10 | Dossy | hey pacman :) |
| 01:17.20 | fabinho | wwhen does a mailprogram stops usingh /var/log/maillog and starts using /var/log/maillog.1 ? |
| 01:17.31 | greycat | fabinho: assumption error. |
| 01:17.42 | fabinho | erm ? :} |
| 01:17.43 | thymus | mdh: nope. not there either |
| 01:17.51 | tcsetattr | fabinho, Sunday morning at 6:47am |
| 01:17.55 | enki` | thymus: i cant see how i could. it has a Channel ID and Lun field all seperate, so i can enter 0,0,0 but not ATAPI |
| 01:17.58 | mdh | enki`: some programs that haven't been updated assume scsi devices, you'll need to use ide-scsi |
| 01:18.03 | greycat | fabinho: when does it stop being February and start being January? |
| 01:18.05 | tcsetattr | fabinho, that's when the logs are rotated in the cron.weekly run :) |
| 01:18.07 | Jambon | tcseattr: it's telling me i need a bootloader |
| 01:18.17 | enki` | mdh: could you recommend a good one thats been updated ? |
| 01:18.21 | mdh | thymus: you don't have kernel support for usb then :/ |
| 01:18.27 | tcsetattr | Jambon, what's the exact wording of what it's telling you? |
| 01:18.31 | thymus | enki`: Ahh...Diunno then. THat is what I use for cdrecord |
| 01:18.37 | fabinho | greycat , hehehe well :] im trying to understand why it changed, if its some configuration in my mail program |
| 01:18.39 | Dossy | tcsetattr: what's new? |
| 01:18.39 | thymus | mdh: Ok. How do I add it? |
| 01:18.44 | fabinho | tcsetattr , ahh |
| 01:18.51 | enki` | thymus: yeah me too, it works there |
| 01:18.52 | thymus | mdh: will usbutils do it? |
| 01:18.54 | mdh | enki`: mmm.. not really. all our burning gear was purchased before the kernel got fixed so its all either using ide-scsi or is actually real scsi |
| 01:19.00 | idnarhtim | eroaster doesn't seem to have been update for ages |
| 01:19.04 | greycat | fabinho: man logrotate, man crontab, man syslogd, man syslog.conf, ... |
| 01:19.09 | enki` | mdh: cool, thanks |
| 01:19.12 | Dossy | oh, lovely: Failed to fetch http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/m/mtools/mtools_3.9.9-1.1_i386.deb 404 Not Found [IP: 35.9.37.225 80] |
| 01:19.15 | Dossy | time to upate again :) |
| 01:19.16 | mgrenon | alright does anybody at all know of any advantages? |
| 01:19.22 | mdh | thymus: no, you either need to build a new kernel, or perhaps use a distribution kernel and load the relevent modules for your system |
| 01:19.34 | Jambon | installing initrd kernel image. will not work unless you configure bootloader to us initrd. |
| 01:19.40 | Jacobo221 | is there any channel for apsfilter? |
| 01:19.46 | *** join/#debian getPkgQuick (~knoppix@AS53-01-122.cas-kit.golden.net) |
| 01:19.49 | tcsetattr | Jambon, did you get back to your shell prompt? or is it asking you questions? |
| 01:19.54 | thymus | mdh: well, woody installed 2.2 for some reason. trying 2.6.2 now |
| 01:19.59 | mgrenon | mdh: mind if i ask you a question about the linux kernel? |
| 01:20.19 | Jambon | tcseattr: it's in the shell and asking me if i want to stop now. |
| 01:20.26 | mgrenon | thymus: bf24 would have given you 2.4 |
| 01:20.27 | Dossy | thymus: "for some reason"? such as "2.6 wasn't available when woody was released" ? |
| 01:20.30 | tcsetattr | well that's not "in the shell" then. |
| 01:20.31 | *** join/#debian franz (~franz@233.118-200-80.adsl.skynet.be) |
| 01:20.40 | Jambon | fair enough |
| 01:20.43 | mdh | mgrenon: fire away |
| 01:20.55 | Jacobo221 | mmm, ok, my question is: why isn't "apsfilterconfig" supporting configuring LaserJet printers with the "hpijs" driver? hpijs supports LaserJet... |
| 01:20.55 | Jambon | do i want to stop? |
| 01:21.00 | mdh | tell mgrenon about ask |
| 01:21.04 | *** join/#debian LB|Finnland (~Lukas@zux006-042-245.adsl.green.ch) |
| 01:21.07 | tcsetattr | hold on a second |
| 01:21.09 | thymus | Dossy: Well, 2.4 was. But either way..this is a test box and I want to play ;> |
| 01:21.09 | Justin_ | Jacobo221: becauase apsfilter sucks? |
| 01:21.16 | mdh | gah |
| 01:21.20 | fabinho | greycat , thanks |
| 01:21.21 | Dossy | hpijs? hplj ? |
| 01:21.24 | Jacobo221 | Justin_: ops. And hat do you use? magic filter? |
| 01:21.31 | thymus | and along wioth playing I am learning debian. Comming from a Slackware enviroment this is quite a bit different |
| 01:21.41 | mgrenon | mdh: is there any advantage to only building the kernel with the base drivers needed to boot and load the rest of the drivers as loadable kernel modules? I asked a while ago but the channel is scrolling very fast i think it got disregarded. |
| 01:21.43 | mdh | thymus: youll want at least 2.4 |
| 01:21.43 | thymus | mgrenon: huh? |
| 01:22.01 | Justin_ | Jacobo221: cups |
| 01:22.04 | Dossy | mgrenon: depends, do you plan on running the same build of the kernel on many varying machines? |
| 01:22.09 | thymus | mdh: I don't think 2.2 had usb support does it? |
| 01:22.30 | mwilson | grrr, stupid mutt |
| 01:22.31 | mdh | mgrenon: the only advantage I can think of is that it makes it a bit easier to build a complete system for multiple machines that may have slight hardware differences |
| 01:22.34 | Justin_ | thymus: woody installed 2.2 because you didn't read the install guide |
| 01:22.37 | mdh | thymus: not that I recall. |
| 01:22.39 | tcsetattr | I'm not sure if mkboot will put the initrd on a floppy for you |
| 01:22.45 | Jacobo221 | Justin_: oh, you mean you create your own filters, right? |
| 01:22.51 | getPkgQuick | update about skipping slow "apt-get update". I looked into this "rsync" approach and found an "apt-rsync" Python script at http://home.tiscali.cz:8080/~cz210552/aptrsync.html -- I'm running this script now and it seems faster. Is this what I was supposed to do? |
| 01:22.54 | mwilson | Now that I've noticed it's doing it, it's going to make me crazy until I figure out WHY it's doing it. |
| 01:22.55 | mdh | 2.2 goes back many years, I have enough trouble remembering last week ;) |
| 01:22.56 | Justin_ | Jacobo221: no, i mean I use cups |
| 01:22.58 | Jambon | tcsetattr: so say no to stop or say yes to stop? |
| 01:23.01 | *** join/#debian FieldySnuts (mysql@bgp01038448bgs.sothwt01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 01:23.07 | *** join/#debian jerome_ (~fatnerf@fatnerf.net1.nerim.net) |
| 01:23.09 | thymus | Justin_: well, people say there is an option in there to make it instal ext3 too but there isn't that I can find. |
| 01:23.10 | Dossy | apt-rsync? you're kidding! |
| 01:23.10 | mgrenon | mdh: just curious because the kernel module guide i was reading said it was the best way but never said why |
| 01:23.19 | thymus | buit then 2.2 dosn't support ext3 either AFAIK |
| 01:23.24 | tcsetattr | Jambon, say no to stop |
| 01:23.29 | thymus | mdh: lol |
| 01:23.40 | mdh | mgrenon: the other advantage is that at a later time you're able to add new odules without rebuilding the whole kernel |
| 01:23.42 | mjj29 | thymus: the debian install disk? |
| 01:23.44 | jwal | Can somebody help me with a cdparanoia problem? |
| 01:23.47 | mgrenon | mdh: can you add modules without rebooting the system? |
| 01:23.47 | Justin_ | thymus: well duh, you didn't read the install guide, and booted 2.2, so no ext3 for you |
| 01:23.52 | mdh | mgrenon: yes |
| 01:24.03 | Dossy | aww. no package. :) |
| 01:24.12 | thymus | Justin_: Ok...where is this "Install Guide" |
| 01:24.15 | Dossy | hey, what's the current popular filesystem? ext3? reiserfs? xfs? |
| 01:24.20 | mwilson | I wonder if it's got something to do with locale settings? |
| 01:24.25 | mjj29 | thymus: install with ext2, upgrade the kernel, run tune2fs -j /dev/foo - voila, ext3 |
| 01:24.29 | mdh | mgrenon: when you build, make-kpkg the kernel_headers as well as the kernel_image and kernel_modules |
| 01:24.29 | enki` | anyone know of a gui cd burning app that supports ATAPI bus cdrw instead of just scsi? |
| 01:24.29 | *** join/#debian franz (~franz@233.118-200-80.adsl.skynet.be) |
| 01:24.30 | Justin_ | thymus: it is hidden on www.debian.org |
| 01:24.32 | mjj29 | Dossy: I use xfs everywhere |
| 01:24.38 | mgrenon | mdh: okay sounds good i guess, do you know where i can get a guide on the advantages of microkernels btw? |
| 01:24.44 | mjj29 | Dossy: seems good to me |
| 01:24.54 | Dossy | mjj: stable? you running in a production environment? |
| 01:24.55 | Justin_ | thymus: though I hear you can find it if you click "installation manual" |
| 01:24.57 | Jacobo221 | Justin_: oh, sorry. I thought cups was a standard, not really an app :-S I'll search the web for info on it. thanx |
| 01:24.59 | *** join/#debian foo__ (~foo@cs2428158-163.satx.rr.com) |
| 01:25.10 | mdh | mgrenon: university? |
| 01:25.24 | mgrenon | mdh: im only 17 heh |
| 01:25.39 | Jambon | tcsetattr: get this message: do you want me to create link from /boot/initrd.img-2.4.24-1-686 to initrd.img? |
| 01:25.42 | mdh | lots of 17-yr-olds go to university |
| 01:25.48 | tcsetattr | Jamb, just say yes to that |
| 01:26.03 | mgrenon | mdh: take classes? |
| 01:26.05 | Jambon | mgrenon: me too |
| 01:26.14 | mdh | mgrenon: yeah |
| 01:26.19 | Jambon | minus the university |
| 01:26.29 | *** join/#debian Nezzie_home (~trillian@0-1pool56-206.nas9.eugene1.or.us.da.qwest.net) |
| 01:26.37 | Nezzie_home | whats the default vnc port? |
| 01:26.39 | thymus | Justin_: HEY! There it is....halfway down the blue collum in a tint font. <LOL> |
| 01:26.46 | mdh | universities just want your money, they don't care how old you are |
| 01:26.47 | Jambon | tc: i'm guessing say no to boot off the hard disk. |
| 01:26.51 | Dossy | enzzie: 5900 |
| 01:26.57 | mgrenon | mdh: i have to move before i can get any resourceful classes im not interested in a BS technical school that says they teach computers when in reality they teach Windows |
| 01:26.59 | tcsetattr | Jambon, well, go with your instinct :) |
| 01:27.33 | xeon_ | Dang. |
| 01:27.35 | Jambon | so i said no |
| 01:27.37 | mjj29 | Dossy: only on my personal hosts, but including my server |
| 01:27.40 | Nezzie_home | thanks |
| 01:27.42 | mjj29 | and it seems very good |
| 01:27.42 | mdh | mgrenon: try to look online for papers by people like andrew tanenbaum |
| 01:27.45 | Jambon | now i'm back at prompt |
| 01:27.50 | *** join/#debian fearl (~fearl@ip68-230-75-109.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 01:27.54 | xeon_ | Is there a way to clear all mysql data, I set the root password and must have typed it wrong, now I can't get in |
| 01:28.00 | Dossy | mjj: what size filesystems? i manage everything under LVM -- |
| 01:28.05 | mgrenon | mdh: ah hes the guy that linus bashed because he was for micokernels right? |
| 01:28.11 | mjj29 | Dossy: ditto |
| 01:28.15 | Jambon | tcsetattr: so what do i type to make a boot floppy? |
| 01:28.16 | Justin_ | !listkeys mysql |
| 01:28.17 | mjj29 | currently.... |
| 01:28.18 | dpkg | Factoid search of 'mysql' by key (12 shown): mysql c api ;; forgot mysql root password ;; remove mysql ;; be mysql barbie ;; mysql ;; doesn't know mysql ;; mod_auth_mysql ;; radiusd-freeradius-mysql ;; dbf2mysql ;; why-not-mysql ;; mysql-server ;; postfixmysql. |
| 01:28.20 | mdh | mgrenon: that's one of the more infamous incidents, yes |
| 01:28.23 | getPkgQuick | idnarhtim: I using apt-rsync from http://home.tiscali.cz:8080/~cz210552/aptrsync.html -- is this what you were talking about earlier? |
| 01:28.28 | Justin_ | !tell xeon_ about forgot mysql root password |
| 01:28.36 | Dossy | xeon: rename data/mysql to data/mysql.old, rerun the scripts that create the mysql/ tables from outside the db .. |
| 01:28.37 | mjj29 | Dossy: 100Gb and 75Gb |
| 01:28.48 | thymus | Ok...so after 2.6.2 is done then I get mutt to have my pine type clone and then usbutils to have my USB support right? |
| 01:28.55 | Dossy | mjj: hmmm. |
| 01:28.55 | everton | what is the proper debhelper script to throw .h files into build packages? |
| 01:29.12 | mjj29 | with others ranging from 200Mb to 14Gb |
| 01:29.14 | idnarhtim | getPkgQuick: that's exactly what I was talking about (not that exact util, but what it does) |
| 01:29.20 | *** join/#debian kEEg (~geek@24.80.139.14) |
| 01:29.28 | mgrenon | mdh: thats why im intersted in microkernels.. the user space sounds like a good idea.. why one earth would torvalds be completely against it |
| 01:29.47 | tcsetattr | Jamb, run "mkboot" |
| 01:30.04 | enki` | please does anyone know of a good gui cd burning app that supports ATAPI bus cdrw instead of just scsi? |
| 01:30.10 | mdh | mgrenon: I would assume Linus presents his case in his arguments with tanenbaum |
| 01:30.16 | *** join/#debian eNTi (~nt@62.99.160.87) |
| 01:30.19 | Dossy | enki: what's wrong with using ide-scsi? |
| 01:30.21 | *** join/#debian decker (~decker@66-215-215-5.riv-eres.charterpipeline.net) |
| 01:30.23 | getPkgQuick | idnarhtim: not super fast but seems to be an improvement. never heard of rsync before but google connects. tnx |
| 01:30.24 | thymus | enki`: have you tried xcdroast? |
| 01:30.32 | enki` | Dossy: its deprecated in 2.6.x |
| 01:30.36 | enki` | thymus: no ill try that, thanks |
| 01:30.40 | Jambon | tc: it says added linux |
| 01:30.42 | thymus | enki`: it is a bit quirky and not my favoret but it works well with ATAPI cd-rws |
| 01:30.44 | Dossy | enki: deprecated? replaced by what? |
| 01:30.53 | mjj29 | last time I saw someone try ATAPI burning though it failed |
| 01:30.53 | tcsetattr | Jamb, it didn't prompt for a floppy disk? |
| 01:30.53 | idnarhtim | getPkgQuick: great :) |
| 01:30.56 | mdh | Dossy: you don't need it anymore |
| 01:30.59 | Jambon | well ya |
| 01:31.01 | enki` | Dossy: ide_cd |
| 01:31.03 | mjj29 | Dossy: 2.6 has real IDE burning |
| 01:31.05 | *** part/#debian Nezzie_home (~trillian@0-1pool56-206.nas9.eugene1.or.us.da.qwest.net) |
| 01:31.12 | Dossy | mdh: ide-cd ... ok. |
| 01:31.15 | Dossy | mjj: ah, ok. |
| 01:31.17 | Jambon | then it said success at the end. so i'm a guessing that 's good |
| 01:31.22 | decker | does debian have any sorta ntsysv or chkconfig program? |
| 01:31.22 | Dossy | now userland needs to catch up. heh. |
| 01:31.28 | enki` | hehe |
| 01:31.29 | enki` | yep |
| 01:31.31 | tcsetattr | ok, and the floppy drive did something? you saw the light and/or heard it move? |
| 01:31.33 | mdh | decker: update-rc.d |
| 01:31.37 | *** join/#debian _santiago_ (~santiago@63.245.86.103) |
| 01:31.42 | mdh | decker: its not quite the same though :/ |
| 01:31.44 | *** join/#debian dobsonj (~dobsonj@kpt-c-24-158-122-89.chartertn.net) |
| 01:31.51 | Jambon | tc: ya shortly. i used the floppy i'd been booting from |
| 01:31.52 | *** join/#debian Nezzie_ (~trillian@0-1pool56-206.nas9.eugene1.or.us.da.qwest.net) |
| 01:31.58 | mjj29 | mdh: or dpkjg --purge (-; |
| 01:32.01 | mjj29 | *dpkg |
| 01:32.04 | decker | mdh: thanks, I'll look into it |
| 01:32.07 | _santiago_ | hi |
| 01:32.13 | dobsonj | where is zlib installed? i'm trying to compile ssh from source and it can't find zlib. |
| 01:32.15 | tcsetattr | Jambon, I think you should boot again and you'll be in the 2.4 kernel with AGPGART support |
| 01:32.22 | Jambon | ok |
| 01:32.25 | Jambon | thanks a ton |
| 01:32.29 | tcsetattr | let's hope |
| 01:32.38 | _santiago_ | what's the shared memory used for??? |
| 01:32.40 | *** join/#debian fabinho (sadsads@201.0.244.83) |
| 01:32.41 | Nezzie_ | i'm going to be setting up a dns server for my office, and i was wondering if its stupid to put a gigabit network card into a pci bus? |
| 01:32.41 | mdh | mjj29: well.. purging a package isn't exactly the same thing as telling it not to run in a certain runlevel |
| 01:32.55 | tcsetattr | zlib1g-dev |
| 01:33.01 | _santiago_ | I'm trying to analyze the sar results of memory |
| 01:33.03 | Jambon | i'll see what i can do. right now my sister is about to slit my throat because she wants to go on...you guessed it: windows.... |
| 01:33.07 | Dossy | nezzie: especially if it's just serving internal office DNS |
| 01:33.27 | mdh | Nezzie_: yes, standard 32-bit PCI doesn't have the bacndwidth |
| 01:33.32 | Knave | I have a Winbond W89C940 Based ethernet adapter. . In debian, what module would be needed ? (i upgraded from 2.2 to 2.4.25 and i lost network :( ) |
| 01:33.34 | *** join/#debian arauko (~arauko@del-03-239.mbo.ras.cantv.net) |
| 01:33.38 | Nitrocld | Why does every application use lpr |
| 01:33.39 | _santiago_ | and I need to know what's the kbmemshrd |
| 01:33.44 | Knave | ive tried a whole ton of drivers, but i cant get this to work.... |
| 01:33.47 | dobsonj | tcsetattr, whoops, thanks |
| 01:33.48 | _santiago_ | the kbbuffers |
| 01:33.52 | _santiago_ | and ... |
| 01:33.52 | Nezzie_ | mdh: .. would it be best to buy a mobo with a gigabit adapter on the board itself? |
| 01:33.53 | mdh | Nitrocld: because they want to print stuff |
| 01:33.54 | Jambon | tcsetattr: so thank you very much for your help. |
| 01:33.56 | *** join/#debian ChoJin (~ask@c-24-6-19-251.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:34.04 | fabinho | does anyone use spamassassin ? i have just installed it with default configuration, but i'd like to allow users to define what is spam and what is not, i heard its possible with it but dont know how, if anyone has a manual or something please :} |
| 01:34.05 | xeon_ | Justin_: mysql says: No database selected, when I try to change the password |
| 01:34.11 | *** join/#debian shlomil (~shlomil@212.199.219.7.forward.012.net.il) |
| 01:34.16 | tcsetattr | Jambon, I want to hear your success story now... |
| 01:34.17 | *** join/#debian pithon (pithon@ACAA211A.ipt.aol.com) |
| 01:34.26 | Dossy | xeon: "use mysql;" |
| 01:34.44 | *** join/#debian pibby (~pibby@adsl-68-94-122-105.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 01:34.46 | Jambon | tcsetattr: may you live long and have many children. may disease never come to you flock. may.....ya |
| 01:34.51 | *** join/#debian greister (greister@218.58.175.64) |
| 01:34.56 | anonobomber | hey pibby |
| 01:35.00 | Jambon | tcsetattr: i'll see how it goes |
| 01:35.01 | pibby | hey anonobomber |
| 01:35.04 | mdh | Nezzie_: I've got no idea. I've traditionally been against onboard controllers... h/w manufacturers generally used lower-quality gear onboard |
| 01:35.04 | Dossy | argh |
| 01:35.15 | mdh | Nezzie_: but perhaps that's different now |
| 01:35.20 | Dossy | (sourceforge compile farm)-- # the osx machines are not kept up to date. grr. |
| 01:35.22 | _santiago_ | does anybody knows what the shared memory is?? |
| 01:35.27 | Justin_ | xeon_: select the mysql database then |
| 01:35.34 | Dossy | santiago: it's ... shared? |
| 01:35.37 | *** part/#debian aterra (~aterra@cpe.atm0-0-0-1091008.0x3ef2ef2a.kd4nxx1.customer.tele.dk) |
| 01:35.43 | xeon_ | Justin_: but there isn't one... |
| 01:35.57 | Justin_ | xeon_: yes, there is |
| 01:35.57 | _santiago_ | dossy, yes, what how it works? |
| 01:35.59 | *** mode/#debian [+l 667] by debhelper |
| 01:36.11 | _santiago_ | dossy, it's shared to what'? |
| 01:36.19 | _santiago_ | and for what' |
| 01:36.28 | Dossy | santiago: a process indicates that some of its memory is to be shared between different processes in the same process group. |
| 01:37.03 | Dossy | santiago: you really ought to read the Tanenbaum "Operating Systems" book. Especially if you're doing homework for an OS class, instead of asking us on IRC :) |
| 01:37.13 | mdh | _santiago_: it could be the code segments of a dynamically-loaded shared library, eg glibc |
| 01:37.22 | *** part/#debian bur[n]er (~norml@c-67-172-159-37.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:37.22 | _santiago_ | dossy, jeje, ok, thanks |
| 01:37.23 | beta3 | is there any kind of decent clipart gallery I could use |
| 01:37.47 | beta3 | thats the only thing I ever missed about MS Office, it had the best clipart gallery |
| 01:38.09 | mdh | beta3: no way. coreldraw had the best clipart gallery |
| 01:38.14 | _santiago_ | mdh, ok, thanks |
| 01:38.18 | Knave | beta3: you can access teh clipart galleries online |
| 01:38.21 | Knave | dgl.microsoft.com |
| 01:38.22 | Knave | ;) |
| 01:38.29 | Knave | *its free tooo...* |
| 01:38.41 | beta3 | Knave: they have a EULA before using it |
| 01:38.47 | Knave | so? |
| 01:38.48 | Knave | LOL |
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| 01:39.55 | beta3 | what the hell |
| 01:39.56 | Jondab | is it ok if X is running when i do apt-get dist-upgrade? |
| 01:40.03 | mdh | I'm pondering why some people can build linux installers of firefox the day its out, and the .deb maintainer can't. |
| 01:40.06 | beta3 | I think I have bought enough licenses of MS office in my life time |
| 01:40.18 | mdh | perhaps its time. he could be on holidays. |
| 01:40.22 | beta3 | mdh: it won't build for all architechtures |
| 01:40.33 | Nezzie_ | question is there a gigabit pci card that works automaticcly with debian woody .. no special drivers just instant access? |
| 01:40.43 | Dossy | mdh: because the .deb maintainer has a real job? |
| 01:40.43 | *** part/#debian jwal (~jwal@81-86-242-138.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 01:40.53 | Blissex | mdh: also remember that a Debian package is far more finely put together, and on a lot of odd platforms. |
| 01:41.20 | mjj29 | Nezzie_: depends which kernel, won't be in 2.2 |
| 01:41.31 | mjj29 | if you install 2.4.18.... I think there are a few |
| 01:41.33 | Nezzie_ | 2.4bf24-18 |
| 01:41.34 | mdh | damn them crazy platforms |
| 01:41.36 | mjj29 | a newer kernel would be better though |
| 01:41.54 | mdh | everyone should just use alphas like all real men ;) |
| 01:42.12 | brucey | mdh, i want firefox too ...but i have learned to be patient |
| 01:42.20 | mjj29 | mdh: can debian support many gigabit nics on them? |
| 01:42.23 | mdh | yeah yeah yeah patience... how long will that take? |
| 01:42.31 | tix64 | mdh: fwiw, there are firefox debs out already. |
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| 01:42.52 | mjj29 | tix64: prolly not for m68k |
| 01:42.53 | Blissex | mdh: you can always take a '.rpm' and convert it to a '.deb' with 'alien', it works in a surprisingly large number of cases. |
| 01:43.06 | mdh | Blissex: ewwwww! |
| 01:43.12 | Dossy | mdh :-) |
| 01:43.21 | mdh | mjj29: its up to the kernel what is supported |
| 01:43.22 | tix64 | mjj29: nope, i386 and ppc only |
| 01:43.28 | Dossy | so, who here is in New Jersey? is there a NJ Debian User Group yet? |
| 01:43.45 | Nezzie_ | i was born in manahawken or however its spelt |
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| 01:43.53 | mjj29 | mdh: yeah, I know. Am teasing |
| 01:43.55 | Blissex | i just wish all those maniacal obsessive users of 68000 just gave up, all three of them. |
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| 01:44.04 | Dossy | nezzie: but you're not in NJ anymore? |
| 01:44.12 | Nezzie_ | dossy: nope |
| 01:44.15 | Dossy | :) |
| 01:44.17 | Nezzie_ | dossy: oregon |
| 01:44.19 | Dossy | eek |
| 01:44.26 | Nezzie_ | a lot nicer here |
| 01:44.27 | Dossy | so, am I the only one? |
| 01:44.42 | Nezzie_ | lol start a DUG |
| 01:44.46 | tix64 | Blissex: there are way more of them. |
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| 01:44.56 | Dossy | don't want to start one. |
| 01:44.57 | mjj29 | lol |
| 01:44.57 | mdh | tix64: official debs? don't seem to be in sid today... |
| 01:45.10 | Blissex | tix64: then that will take more than a handful of bullets :-) |
| 01:45.45 | Blissex | tix64: and silver bullets, because I suspect 68k users are as undead as their platform |
| 01:45.54 | Blissex | tix64: or stakes, I mean. |
| 01:45.55 | mdh | one day I'll be less lazy and build the debs myself |
| 01:46.35 | malex | I'm making a FAT32 partition for an external drive I'll use to copy files from both WinXP and Linux. Should I use 0B or 0C partition type? |
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| 01:46.41 | ezrafree | haha |
| 01:46.41 | mgrenon | mdh: im reading the messages now tanenbaum just got told :) |
| 01:46.41 | tix64 | mdh: not _official_ official. just pre-versions by the maintainer |
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| 01:47.12 | ginger | /msg dpkg |
| 01:47.27 | mdh | tix64: fair enough. I'll wait I guess. I'm running it from the ofiicial mozilla tarball anyway, I just don't like doing that ;) |
| 01:48.00 | Jondab | i just installed debian woody stable, now i want to upgrade it. I changed the sources.list to testing. should i run apt-get dist-upgrade or apt-get dselect-upgrade? |
| 01:48.05 | mjj29 | malex: prolly 0C, unless its an old drive |
| 01:48.15 | *** join/#debian lorenzo (lorenzo@user-0c8hobt.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 01:48.18 | mgrenon | "5 years from now everyone will be running free GNU on their 200 MIPS, 64M SPARCstation-5." -tanenbaum `92 |
| 01:48.25 | mjj29 | Jondab: apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 01:48.36 | Jondab | mjj29: thanks |
| 01:48.39 | xeon_ | Is it stupid for mysql root to own a database? |
| 01:48.47 | malex | mjj29: Thanks. |
| 01:48.48 | tix64 | mdh: you have to wait some days, because it's a new package (name change), so there is manual work involved. |
| 01:49.04 | Blissex | jondab, more than changing the sources to incldue testing, put: 'APT::Default-Release "testing";' in '/etc/apt/apt.conf'. |
| 01:49.18 | *** part/#debian ginger (~ginger@cpc2-sout4-5-0-cust158.sot3.cable.ntl.com) |
| 01:49.27 | Jondab | Blissex: thanks :D |
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| 01:50.02 | Blissex | Jondab: after adding that line, you can do 'dist-upgrade' safely. |
| 01:50.24 | mjj29 | Blissex: whats the difference to that and not having the default release line? |
| 01:50.56 | Jondab | Blissex: what if there isn't a /etc/apt/apt.conf in existance? |
| 01:51.04 | lorenzo | Anyone know why I just lost a terminal and how to make my system logout faster? It sometimes takes about half a minute to logout. |
| 01:51.06 | mjj29 | Jondab: just create it |
| 01:51.09 | tix64 | xeon_: not per se. the problem as always is that the root user can destroy everything by chance. |
| 01:51.11 | Jondab | ok |
| 01:51.28 | FieldySnuts | !lart xeon_ |
| 01:51.37 | Blissex | mjj29: welll, its pretty big: if you dont tell apt you want to stick at 'testing', then it will upgrade to the _latest_, even if it is beyond 'testing'. |
| 01:51.45 | mjj29 | Blissex: oh, yeah |
| 01:51.56 | mjj29 | but if you only have testing in your sources list |
| 01:52.05 | mjj29 | you only need that if you have unstable in there too |
| 01:52.27 | Blissex | mjj29: with 'Default-Release', 'apt' will more or less pin all packages to whatever release they have in 'testing'. |
| 01:52.42 | mjj29 | yeah |
| 01:52.59 | mjj29 | which won't matter unless you have unstable in your sources.list |
| 01:53.15 | mjj29 | since they will all pin the the highest, which will always be testing |
| 01:53.23 | Blissex | mjj29: yes, but remembering that you can only put 'testing' in '/etc/apt/sources.list' is a bit risky. That's why I wrote "you can do 'dist-upgrade' *safely*" |
| 01:53.41 | mjj29 | Blissex: well, I don't mind - but hey |
| 01:54.03 | mjj29 | and not the ones I don't |
| 01:54.06 | Blissex | mjj29: they won't pin at all without that line, they will just get the latest. People add new sources all the time, to get this or that other non standard package. |
| 01:54.15 | mjj29 | Blissex: true |
| 01:54.17 | xeon_ | Why does my mysql root have grant priveledges, but can't even create a new user |
| 01:54.23 | *** part/#debian _santiago_ (~santiago@63.245.86.103) |
| 01:54.43 | mjj29 | xeon_: grant is equivelent to that |
| 01:54.55 | mjj29 | just grant privs to a users that doesn't exist |
| 01:55.03 | Blissex | mjj29: for example its often advantageous to pin to 'testing', but use a bit of 'unstable', for example the news XFree86 4.3.0 |
| 01:55.24 | Jondab | is it ok for me to run apt-get dist-upgrade from within gnome? |
| 01:55.31 | mjj29 | Jondab: yup |
| 01:55.41 | mjj29 | Blissex: oh yeah, but then you don't only have testing in your sources.list, thats a whole different kettle of fish |
| 01:55.46 | Jondab | debian rocks :D |
| 01:55.50 | mjj29 | I think we're talking at slightly cross-purposes |
| 01:56.00 | *** mode/#debian [+l 655] by debhelper |
| 01:56.00 | mjj29 | Jondab: well, you'll porobably want to long out/in afterwards |
| 01:56.07 | mjj29 | since it'll probably upgrade gnome.... |
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| 01:56.09 | mjj29 | and X |
| 01:56.11 | Blissex | mjj29: Its a bit sad that some non-Debian packagers dont realize the importance of the release field; for example the 'backports.org' people don't tag their stuff as 'woody', which means I have to manually hold them. !"£$% |
| 01:56.19 | mjj29 | ah |
| 01:56.20 | Jondab | mjj29: like restarting windows? |
| 01:56.33 | deadcat | external usb2 faster or internal faster over a rj45? |
| 01:56.36 | mjj29 | Jondab: well, you can still run without |
| 01:56.47 | Jondab | heh... kewl |
| 01:56.48 | mjj29 | but until you restart the program, you won't get the new version of it |
| 01:56.51 | mdh | Blissex: email them and whack them with a cluebat |
| 01:56.55 | Jondab | ic |
| 01:57.05 | Knave | where is the conf file that shows that modules load? |
| 01:57.15 | Jondab | will dist-upgrade upgrade my kernel? |
| 01:57.21 | mdh | half the time these folks are used to using rpm and the minimal subset of package management it provides |
| 01:57.23 | elephantman | What are the issues in configuring a firewall router function ? |
| 01:57.26 | mjj29 | Jondab: err, no |
| 01:57.28 | deadcat | Jondab: no |
| 01:57.32 | Jondab | ok, thanks |
| 01:57.40 | mjj29 | since kernel versions are done as different packages |
| 01:57.42 | peterS | deadcat: talking about what sort of communication device here? |
| 01:57.43 | Blissex | mjj29: the point I am making is that it is unsafe to assume that you can control which release you default to just by making sure you remember to tighly control the sources, Inevitably some random source will be put in, and suddendly BOOM! :-) |
| 01:57.46 | mdh | which is the cause of Redhat's (and their derivatives) dependency problems |
| 01:57.51 | deadcat | Jondab: but you can apt-get install <kernel> ; apt-cache search --names-only kernel-image |
| 01:57.52 | tix64 | Knave: i think you mean /etc/modules |
| 01:57.54 | *** join/#debian nixman_ (~nixman@HSE-Ottawa-ppp240987.sympatico.ca) |
| 01:57.55 | mjj29 | but you'll be able to install kernels up to 2.4.24 |
| 01:57.57 | Knave | tnx |
| 01:57.59 | mjj29 | (and 2.6.2) |
| 01:58.01 | Jondab | is upgrading the kernel difficult? |
| 01:58.08 | mjj29 | what are you on atm? |
| 01:58.14 | mdh | great. some bastard brought food into the office |
| 01:58.14 | elephantman | What is the basic aim of a firewall ? Filtering packet transit ? |
| 01:58.16 | *** join/#debian Nurbs (tom@p509277EE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:58.16 | Knave | jondab i did it for my first time yesterday..Not hard, just time consuming... |
| 01:58.20 | Blissex | Jondab: its practically no problem. All automagic. |
| 01:58.43 | mdh | and they're not sharing |
| 01:58.45 | lorenzo | Where is Grub configured on a Debian unstable system? I seem to have no grub.conf anywhere on the system. |
| 01:58.45 | Jondab | kewl |
| 01:58.45 | xeon_ | An error occured while applying the Grants. is all that mysqlcc keeps giving me when im logged under root, correct password and all |
| 01:58.45 | Jondab | <Knave: does it require a lot of user input? |
| 01:59.14 | Blissex | lorenzo: last minute: its '/boot/grub/menu.lst' |
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| 01:59.46 | phildar60 | hi all |
| 01:59.58 | phildar60 | i write here to ask something |
| 02:00.09 | mdh | lorenzo: /usr/share/doc/grub/README.Debian is your friend |
| 02:00.09 | phildar60 | we are making a distribution |
| 02:00.13 | mjj29 | Knave: not really that time consuming |
| 02:00.13 | Knave | took about 1 hr |
| 02:00.13 | deadcat | peterS: i want to transfer some stuff over the network. i can either use a usb2 externel case or put the hd into the comp. which you think will be faster? both gonna be over the network. |
| 02:00.13 | mjj29 | Knave: you did it the hard way then |
| 02:00.13 | Knave | i didnt use apt-get |
| 02:00.13 | peterS | deadcat: "the network" is a pretty ambiguous term |
| 02:00.13 | mjj29 | Knave: theres your problem then |
| 02:00.13 | deadcat | peterS: 100baset rj45. |
| 02:00.13 | Knave | I also manually chose what was installed.... And thats probably why i cant seem to get my network card running.. |
| 02:00.13 | mjj29 | Jondab: if you are already on a 2.4 kernel, then just apt-get install and reboot (it should run lilo) |
| 02:00.14 | peterS | deadcat: I don't understand what your "usb2 external case" has to do with 100baseTX networking |
| 02:00.14 | Knave | jondab nah... Not if you use menuconfig... But id recommend first to learn to use apt-get and do it.. |
| 02:00.14 | mjj29 | otherwise you have to alter lilo.conf and run lilo first |
| 02:00.14 | FieldySnuts | !start a browser war |
| 02:00.14 | dpkg | telnet more useful than galeon |
| 02:00.16 | mjj29 | Jondab: just run apt-get, its far more complicated any other way |
| 02:00.16 | mjj29 | Knave: bet you didn't use make-kpkg either |
| 02:00.19 | phildar60 | and we need a dev |
| 02:00.20 | nixman_ | anyone know when kde 3.2 will be in unstable ? |
| 02:00.28 | phildar60 | come here to see the projetc |
| 02:00.32 | greycat | dpkg, start a browser war =~ s/more useful/is more useful/ |
| 02:00.32 | dpkg | greycat: OK |
| 02:00.36 | deadcat | peterS: cus the external case will be on the client machine. server dont have usb2. and if i do put the hd into the machine. its also gonna be a client machine. just wonder which way of transfer is faster. |
| 02:00.36 | phildar60 | http://octoz.yellis.net |
| 02:00.45 | Jondab | ok, thanks guys |
| 02:00.49 | Dossy | browser wars are over - Microsoft already won. |
| 02:00.56 | peterS | deadcat: I don't understand what hard drives have to do with network transfers here. |
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| 02:01.03 | mdh | FieldySnuts,greycat: that's not a browser war, its known fact |
| 02:01.07 | Jondab | btw... someone told me it's best to compile your own kernel. is that true, and does it have any benefits? |
| 02:01.10 | mjj29 | Dossy: nah, opera is the best </really starts browser war) |
| 02:01.18 | beta3 | what will chop up an mpf file with ms pictures in it |
| 02:01.19 | mjj29 | Jondab: depends |
| 02:01.20 | peterS | deadcat: I have finally picked up the idea that your usb2 "external case" has to do with a hard drive. but I'm still struggling to understand where this network comes into it |
| 02:01.23 | Knave | mjj29: no i didnt... Crap... |
| 02:01.23 | deadcat | peterS: cus i have to move the stuff from server to my hd.. nevermind that q. how fast is usb2? |
| 02:01.27 | Dossy | mjj: best at what, people are still trying to figure out :) |
| 02:01.27 | mjj29 | Jondab: probably not for you |
| 02:01.32 | phildar60 | if u are dev private me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 02:01.33 | mjj29 | Dossy: (-; |
| 02:01.41 | mjj29 | oh dear |
| 02:01.44 | Jondab | mjj29: hmm.. how comes? |
| 02:01.46 | Dossy | MAHIR! I KISS YOU! |
| 02:01.47 | lorenzo | Quick help! What does INIT id "3" respawning too fast mean? |
| 02:01.47 | peterS | deadcat: usb2 is theoretically 480 Mbit. but nobody ever gets anywhere near that speed in real life |
| 02:01.54 | mjj29 | Jondab: it allows you to pick exactly what options you use |
| 02:01.58 | deadcat | peterS: i dont know how to explain. but if i am holding the thing. its very simple. |
| 02:02.01 | Dossy | lorenzo: egrep ^3 /etc/inittab |
| 02:02.04 | mjj29 | but since debian uses everything as modules |
| 02:02.11 | mjj29 | you just get everything, and only load what you need |
| 02:02.15 | mjj29 | which is quite equivelent |
| 02:02.30 | Jondab | mjj29: oh, ic... could it be faster than the standard kernel if i build it exactly to my system requirements (supposing i had the know-how)? |
| 02:02.31 | deadcat | peterS: and data over the 100baset rj45? 100Mbit? |
| 02:02.37 | mjj29 | Jondab: yeah |
| 02:02.40 | lorenzo | Dossy: Thanks. |
| 02:02.42 | mjj29 | Jondab: and possibly smaller |
| 02:02.43 | Jondab | mjj29: a lot faster? |
| 02:02.47 | mjj29 | Jondab: not really |
| 02:02.56 | Jondab | ok... thanks, just wondering :) |
| 02:02.57 | mjj29 | Jondab: debian has a few optimised ones built |
| 02:02.58 | peterS | deadcat: your whole question is confusing. why did you even bother to mention this network transfer? it sounds like all you want to know is, is a USB 2.0 connected hard drive going to be faster or slower than the same drive plugged into an internal IDE cable |
| 02:03.06 | Jondab | aha... |
| 02:03.09 | mjj29 | Jondab: if you need weird options or patches, then you have to |
| 02:03.09 | Knave | jondah --- i only noticed minor speed increases at startup |
| 02:03.10 | peterS | deadcat: and the answer to *that* is, the internal cable will almost always be faster |
| 02:03.15 | Dossy | dpkg: 6 + 7/8 |
| 02:03.15 | mjj29 | Jondab: what cpu do you have? |
| 02:03.15 | dpkg | 6.875 |
| 02:03.33 | FieldySnuts | !start a cpu war |
| 02:03.34 | dpkg | Here's a nickel, kid. Go buy yourself a Z80 |
| 02:03.43 | Knave | and i still havnt figured out WTF type of network module i need for my network card!!!! |
| 02:03.48 | Jondab | mjj29: I'm running on a laptop... PIII 600Mhz |
| 02:03.50 | peterS | deadcat: of course, there is the question of whether it's *noticeably* faster - it might not be, since hard drives are a lot slower than the line speed of modern ATA modes |
| 02:03.51 | deadcat | peterS: ya. but the harddrive stuff are on machineA, i haev to move stuff from machineB to machineA.. |
| 02:03.59 | cafuego | Hmm, IDE DMA status 0x80 is quite bad, isn't it? |
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| 02:04.19 | lorenzo | Dossy: It says 3:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty3 |
| 02:04.20 | mjj29 | Jondab: then apt-get install kernel-image-2.4.24-686 after dist-upgrading (I think thats right) |
| 02:04.21 | Jondab | i was scared of putting linux on one of my main machines... so i'm testing it out on one of my older laptops :) |
| 02:04.24 | peterS | deadcat: I don't care what you have to move. it still sounds like your basic question has nothing to do with this network, and everything to do with whether interface type 1 is faster or slower than interface type 2. |
| 02:04.41 | Jondab | mjj29: ok, i'll give that a whirl. |
| 02:04.47 | mjj29 | Jondab: although it does have a local root hole atm. Hopefully 2.4.25 will be packaged soon |
| 02:04.50 | Dossy | lorenzo: tty3 is dead? |