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| 04:17.32 | plssecurity | good evening |
| 04:18.01 | plssecurity | need a little help with cubietruck... first timer here |
| 04:20.42 | plssecurity | ? |
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| 14:02.27 | m6lpi | Hey guys... I have a ct. it's shoved its head up it's OTG port and all I get when it powers up is a blue led that flashes in groups of two... Any ideas ? |
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| 14:11.39 | buZz | not enough power |
| 14:12.22 | m6lpi | hmm... been running off the same psu for ages... |
| 14:12.47 | m6lpi | i guess it could be failing? |
| 14:13.09 | buZz | well, measure it? :) |
| 14:13.29 | m6lpi | it's about 5cm long and... |
| 14:13.36 | buZz | ;) |
| 14:13.55 | m6lpi | i'll got dig out the multimeter |
| 14:14.10 | m6lpi | biab |
| 14:14.59 | buZz | hmm isnt the blue led the network activity though? |
| 14:17.41 | buZz | > The blue LED indicate the network status. if this LED starts to blink every 1 second, it means the system did NOT connected to a network, after the system has connected to network successfully, this LED will turn OFF. |
| 14:17.49 | buZz | if you're running cubian |
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| 15:40.37 | m6lpi | buZz: this is happening before boot i think |
| 15:40.49 | buZz | have you checked the serial port |
| 15:40.59 | buZz | it would be #1 thing to check when having issues booting |
| 15:41.20 | m6lpi | serial port? |
| 15:41.25 | buZz | yes |
| 15:41.49 | m6lpi | OTG port ? |
| 15:41.55 | buZz | no |
| 15:42.18 | m6lpi | ok, where/how ? |
| 15:42.24 | buZz | http://linux-sunxi.org/Cubieboard/TTL |
| 15:43.26 | buZz | https://kashyapc.fedorapeople.org/arm/Cubietruck2.jpg <- one connected |
| 15:44.29 | m6lpi | where's best to get the cable ? |
| 15:45.02 | buZz | i got one with every cubieboard i bought :P |
| 15:45.08 | buZz | from the same seller |
| 15:45.28 | buZz | but i also had them before |
| 15:45.37 | buZz | and bought them since some more, i use them a lot |
| 15:46.22 | m6lpi | I am sure I have one someplace, but couldn't be sure of putting my hands on it right away |
| 15:46.42 | buZz | a well organised workspace is an efficient one |
| 15:46.51 | m6lpi | let me go hunt in the shed |
| 15:47.04 | m6lpi | buZz: I agree.. but S/O doesn't facilitate |
| 15:47.30 | buZz | you cant depend your happiness on the cooperation of others :) |
| 15:48.02 | m6lpi | biab... |
| 15:48.35 | buZz | FYI, if you have old nokia/siemens 'usb datacables' , they can often be hacked into usb-ttl cables |
| 15:53.59 | whitesn | hmm which part are actually connected to the USB interface from the TX/RX? The data? |
| 15:55.14 | buZz | none |
| 15:55.22 | buZz | only gnd directly, really |
| 15:55.30 | buZz | the tx and rx go to a chip in the cable |
| 15:55.36 | buZz | other side of the chip is usb |
| 16:06.20 | m6lpi | cant fint it |
| 16:06.26 | m6lpi | might be in storage |
| 16:12.16 | m6lpi | http://www.aliexpress.com/item/PL2303TA-USB-TTL-to-RS232-Converter-Serial-Cable-module-for-win-XP-VISTA-7-8-8/32352249780.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.20.6b8br5&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201644_4_79_78_77_82_80_62_81,searchweb201560_5 |
| 16:22.04 | m6lpi | that do it ? |
| 16:32.17 | whitesn | wait USB only has 4 wires inside right |
| 16:32.23 | whitesn | vcc gnd and 2 for data? |
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| 16:43.53 | buZz | whitesn: usb ttl is a -device- , not a cable |
| 16:44.27 | whitesn | buZz: yeah, I have one and used it myself, but was curious it basically connects usb to the RX / TX right |
| 16:44.34 | buZz | it doesnt |
| 16:44.37 | buZz | 16:55:30 < buZz> the tx and rx go to a chip in the cable |
| 16:44.37 | buZz | 16:55:36 < buZz> other side of the chip is usb |
| 16:45.09 | whitesn | so the wire inside is not the same as usual USB cable used for charging |
| 16:45.11 | whitesn | ? |
| 16:45.17 | buZz | its not a wire |
| 16:45.19 | buZz | its a chip |
| 16:46.19 | buZz | m6lpi: bit confusing they talk about rs232, cubieboards (and generally arm boards) are -not- compatible with rs232 level |
| 16:47.33 | buZz | > Flexible signal level requirement on the RS232-like serial port side also allows PL2303TA to connect directly to any 3.3V~1.8V range devices. |
| 16:47.38 | buZz | well thats what you need |
| 16:47.45 | buZz | m6lpi: should be good, yes |
| 16:51.24 | m6lpi | groovy, i'll get one ordered |
| 16:52.53 | whitesn | buZz: mm when I cut a USB cable I can see there are 4 wires which I assume 2 off them are for charging (+ and -) and the other are for data |
| 16:53.01 | whitesn | so they have different things inside right? |
| 16:53.18 | buZz | look, its not a wire |
| 16:53.21 | buZz | its a device |
| 16:53.27 | buZz | it LOOKS like a cable |
| 16:53.43 | buZz | but there is actually electronics inside to convert the rx/tx serial port to a USB device |
| 16:54.48 | whitesn | ah, so the part inside the USB header is it |
| 16:55.35 | buZz | yes its not very big |
| 16:56.11 | whitesn | so regular charging cable cannot be modified to be used for serial comm. |
| 16:56.18 | buZz | correct |
| 16:56.28 | buZz | unless you add electronics to it |
| 16:56.40 | whitesn | can you tell me which are usually used for cubie http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/Cables/USBTTLSerial.htm |
| 16:57.02 | buZz | the 1.8V ones |
| 16:57.22 | buZz | the FTDI cables are hella expensive btw |
| 16:57.33 | buZz | over 20-30x what m6lpi just picked out for the exact same purpose |
| 16:58.53 | whitesn | o.o I just want to see more detail on it |
| 16:59.05 | whitesn | what should I type on google for the regular TTL cable datasheet |
| 16:59.24 | whitesn | I usually also bought one for 1~2bucks |
| 16:59.25 | buZz | what kinda datasheet? |
| 16:59.48 | whitesn | regular ones? Like what part is used inside the USB TTL cable |
| 16:59.55 | buZz | differs |
| 17:00.01 | buZz | FT232 is common , but expensive |
| 17:00.07 | buZz | PL2303 is popular and cheap |
| 17:00.10 | buZz | also CH430 is cheap |
| 17:00.25 | buZz | next to the chip are some supporting passives |
| 17:00.31 | buZz | not that exciting stuff really |
| 17:01.03 | whitesn | how do I identify mine? I just recently started learning EE stuff, so figured I'll try figure out things around :) |
| 17:01.18 | buZz | plug into USB port, type 'lsusb' on a terminal |
| 17:01.21 | whitesn | it said STC ISP 1032, not sure if that hints anything |
| 17:01.24 | buZz | assuming you're part of linux masterrace |
| 17:01.25 | whitesn | oh I'm on windowsd |
| 17:01.33 | buZz | oh thats sad |
| 17:01.49 | buZz | you can plug it in, and check devicemanager i think |
| 17:02.09 | whitesn | if I remember correctly it said CH340 instead of CH430 |
| 17:02.27 | buZz | oh thats possible |
| 17:02.29 | buZz | i fuck up aswell |
| 17:02.29 | buZz | :P |
| 17:02.41 | buZz | yes, ch340 is correct |
| 17:02.59 | whitesn | haha, so every of these models use different IC for the same function? |
| 17:03.20 | buZz | there are many different ICs that provide these functions, yes |
| 17:03.25 | buZz | its a very common task |
| 17:03.43 | buZz | there are also many different cars made, yet they all provide the same function ;) |
| 17:04.47 | whitesn | I see, but in car comparison they have significant different in appeal factor, but I assume if they are doing the same things on same speed or other factor why can one IC be way more expensive |
| 17:04.53 | whitesn | difference* |
| 17:04.59 | buZz | these chips have different functions aswell |
| 17:05.07 | buZz | read the datasheets, compare ;) |
| 17:05.27 | whitesn | I assume this is it: https://www.olimex.com/Products/Breadboarding/BB-CH340T/resources/CH340DS1.PDF ? |
| 17:05.32 | buZz | like FT232 chip has a lot of extra pins you can use for 'functions' like blinking leds or doing weird 'serial alike' stuff |
| 17:05.41 | buZz | yes |
| 17:06.12 | buZz | just because 2 different chips can provide a similar function, doesnt make them 100% the same |
| 17:06.15 | buZz | just like cars |
| 17:06.20 | buZz | one has electric windows, other has manual |
| 17:06.21 | buZz | etc |
| 17:06.54 | whitesn | ah I see :) |
| 17:07.19 | buZz | also physical size is different |
| 17:07.31 | whitesn | for the whole thing or only the IC? |
| 17:07.48 | buZz | ? yes the whole chip |
| 17:07.57 | buZz | what is 'the thing' ? |
| 17:08.27 | whitesn | the one packaged into USB or just the IC |
| 17:08.47 | buZz | the chip packaged inside the USB cable is still a chip |
| 17:09.05 | whitesn | oh I thought you were talking about the chip when you mentioned size |
| 17:09.06 | buZz | it doesnt grow or shrink because its used in a cable |
| 17:09.14 | buZz | yes i was talking about the chip |
| 17:09.29 | whitesn | alright.. |
| 17:10.22 | buZz | example of whats inside one of those cables; http://g01.a.alicdn.com/kf/HTB15YiAIXXXXXaTXFXXq6xXFXXXJ/CH340G-Chip-USB-to-RS485-485-Converter-Adapter-For-Win7-Linux-XP-Vista-top.jpg |
| 17:11.33 | buZz | here is another cable opened up |
| 17:11.33 | buZz | http://hanneslehmann.github.io/esp8266/usb_serial_mod.png |
| 17:11.56 | buZz | notice how the insides are different , chips are different sizes, locations, different number of parts |
| 17:12.08 | buZz | yet those two devices serve the same purpose |
| 17:12.18 | buZz | there is always more than 1 way to do something |
| 17:12.37 | whitesn | but the capabilities of the chip to do other function is now unusable because it's packaged with the usb? |
| 17:13.34 | buZz | possible, depends on how they designed the board |
| 17:13.53 | buZz | most often the 'fancy' features arent used, and only the serial interface gets used |
| 17:14.42 | whitesn | that.. somehow feels kind of weird |
| 17:14.52 | buZz | why |
| 17:15.07 | buZz | just because your car can go 20 degree uphill, doesnt mean you have to, or ever will |
| 17:15.30 | buZz | and if you never will, it makes sense for cardesigner to not allow that feature to be used |
| 17:15.45 | buZz | consumer hardware most often is capable of more than gets exposed to a consumer |
| 17:16.06 | buZz | like, microwaves could be turned into weapons, its not something the consumer hardware allows by default though |
| 17:17.34 | whitesn | it's as if putting 16GB RAM on 32 bit operating system |
| 17:17.41 | buZz | which is totally possible |
| 17:17.42 | whitesn | or maybe that's wrong way of representing it |
| 17:17.45 | buZz | provided you run linux |
| 17:18.42 | whitesn | or buying a 2000$ machine installing Windows 98' on it |
| 17:18.50 | buZz | many consumer devices also have programmable chips inside to run logic |
| 17:19.00 | buZz | yet they dont allow consumers to program them by default |
| 17:19.19 | buZz | so its like putting a full PC inside your coffeemaker, yet, letting you never touch the keyboard or mouse |
| 17:19.22 | whitesn | I thought usually on EE they have 1 kind of IC broadly accepted to be used for things |
| 17:19.28 | buZz | lol |
| 17:19.34 | buZz | you're new to EE i bet :P |
| 17:19.38 | whitesn | yep really new |
| 17:19.41 | whitesn | like weeks |
| 17:19.45 | buZz | there is this thing called capitalism |
| 17:19.59 | buZz | which guarantees there are always multiple compagnies that want to do a job for you |
| 17:20.05 | buZz | thus they all make similar chips |
| 17:20.22 | buZz | also innovation is low |
| 17:20.35 | buZz | its just the world we live in |
| 17:20.49 | buZz | if we were a worldwide communism , there would be a single chip from a single vendor |
| 17:20.50 | whitesn | so in a way on this scenario (USB TTL cable), the more expensive one has 0 upside compared to the cheaper one |
| 17:21.19 | buZz | i wouldnt recommend getting a ftdi cable , no, unless you just wanna spend more |
| 17:21.27 | whitesn | no I'm not getting one.. |
| 17:22.03 | buZz | also, FTDI has proven itself to be very malicious in their capitalistic intent; https://www.sparkfun.com/news/1629 |
| 17:22.21 | whitesn | I mean, I saw there are bunch of things done by regularly accepted IC: MAX7209 on dotmatrix, L293D for driving motors |
| 17:22.36 | whitesn | so I thought if they are totally using different ICs there should be something different?.. |
| 17:22.46 | buZz | 7219* |
| 17:23.01 | buZz | there are differences |
| 17:23.05 | buZz | just not in application |
| 17:23.14 | buZz | there are also multiple vendors making LEDs |
| 17:23.18 | buZz | they have differences |
| 17:23.21 | buZz | but all give light |
| 17:23.59 | whitesn | what differences are those from LEDs? |
| 17:24.18 | buZz | power usage, light frequencies, current drain, forward voltage |
| 17:25.08 | whitesn | hmm but that's not really comparable to different IC |
| 17:25.30 | buZz | btw, MAX7219 has a 100% compatible chip available ; AS1106 |
| 17:25.36 | buZz | from a different vendor |
| 17:25.45 | buZz | its 100% compatible, but also adds some features |
| 17:25.51 | buZz | and its cheaper by about 60% |
| 17:28.07 | whitesn | by compatible means it does all the thing MAX7219 does as well? |
| 17:28.13 | buZz | yes |
| 17:28.19 | buZz | and all pins are in the same place |
| 17:28.22 | buZz | with the same function |
| 17:29.55 | whitesn | interesting.. |
| 17:30.11 | buZz | its not that uncommon |
| 17:30.21 | buZz | like, intel used to be the only company making x86 processors |
| 17:30.33 | buZz | then AMD, Cyrix, IBM all started doing it aswell |
| 17:30.47 | buZz | the chips they made worked on the same motherboards as intel motherboards initially |
| 17:31.03 | buZz | straight drop-in replacements, often faster than the intel chip it replaced |
| 17:31.10 | whitesn | I just thought for really specific function there usually really few accepted standards |
| 17:31.31 | buZz | as i said, that holds true in communistic communities, EE isnt one |
| 17:31.35 | whitesn | like USB cables, SATA cables, SD cards |
| 17:31.36 | buZz | its pure capitalism |
| 17:32.01 | buZz | all those things are made by -many- different companies |
| 17:32.46 | m6lpi | right, two ordered |
| 17:33.17 | whitesn | m6lpi: which shipping method did you take? |
| 17:33.28 | buZz | guesses 'the cheapest one' |
| 17:33.28 | buZz | :P |
| 17:33.45 | whitesn | cheapest one took like 1 month? |
| 17:33.49 | whitesn | "free one" |
| 17:34.07 | buZz | its what we accept to have cheap hardware from china |
| 17:34.10 | buZz | 3 weeks usually |
| 17:34.19 | whitesn | I live here and I feel living in heaven |
| 17:34.20 | whitesn | :P |
| 17:34.25 | buZz | where is here |
| 17:34.28 | whitesn | china |
| 17:34.29 | whitesn | heheh |
| 17:34.35 | buZz | near shenzen? |
| 17:34.42 | whitesn | no but still logistics are considerably cheap |
| 17:34.46 | m6lpi | free one, as dhl was like $97 |
| 17:35.49 | whitesn | m6lpi: I think it's better off to buy one on your local online shop? Not like it's really pricey especially for one time payment |
| 17:35.59 | buZz | lol |
| 17:35.59 | whitesn | the free one took like a month |
| 17:36.17 | buZz | whitesn: FYI, a 2 usd chinese item , is 10 usd in a european/us store |
| 17:36.39 | buZz | if not more :) |
| 17:36.40 | whitesn | yeah but still... it's one month |
| 17:36.42 | m6lpi | whitesn: i cant find one 'locally' |
| 17:36.56 | buZz | what nation do you live in m6lpi ? |
| 17:37.00 | m6lpi | uk |
| 17:37.05 | whitesn | wat.. |
| 17:37.45 | buZz | https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/usb-to-serial-bridge-usb-pa5 |
| 17:37.49 | buZz | look at that price :D lol |
| 17:38.00 | whitesn | heheh |
| 17:38.05 | m6lpi | yep |
| 17:38.06 | buZz | ah this is better |
| 17:38.07 | buZz | http://thepihut.com/products/adafruit-usb-to-ttl-serial-cable |
| 17:38.11 | whitesn | I know I can get Unos here for more or less 3 bucks |
| 17:38.24 | whitesn | that is probably 10x on the original store |
| 17:38.34 | buZz | i know i can get weed here (in .nl) cheaper than in uk |
| 17:38.44 | buZz | its just often, local prices dont really translate internationally |
| 17:39.26 | whitesn | aren't there any manufacturers in EU or just the labor workers are way more pricey than CN? |
| 17:39.57 | buZz | whitesn: for chips? no , most EU/US chip 'manufacturers' are actually fabless, and have the actually chip produced in china |
| 17:40.10 | whitesn | I think in CN the labor workers vary from 200~400 USD / per month |
| 17:40.22 | buZz | yeah, easy 10-20x here |
| 17:40.30 | whitesn | for labor workers? |
| 17:40.33 | buZz | yes |
| 17:40.37 | whitesn | owell considering living cost |
| 17:40.53 | buZz | this also increases the costs of any local production |
| 17:41.08 | buZz | i cant buy a house locally for less than ~150000 euros |
| 17:41.23 | buZz | yet, same money in china probably buys me nice big mansion with big piece of land |
| 17:41.41 | whitesn | not really actually |
| 17:41.50 | whitesn | that depends on location |
| 17:41.56 | buZz | yeah , not in shanghai :) |
| 17:42.08 | whitesn | but probably not even near what you are thinking |
| 17:42.15 | buZz | but that 150000 is for a town with 30000 people |
| 17:42.15 | whitesn | in Indonesia probably |
| 17:42.28 | whitesn | is from Indonesia :) |
| 17:42.56 | buZz | welp i gotta go do stuff |
| 17:43.03 | buZz | ship some bitcoin miners ^_^ |
| 17:43.05 | buZz | bbl |
| 17:43.09 | whitesn | haha sure catch ya later, thanks for the conv. really helpful :D |
| 17:43.20 | buZz | feel free to drop any questions here later |
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