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| 00:16.07 | *** topic/#bzflag is https://BZFlag.org || https://www.openhub.net/p/bzflag || https://bzflag.org/help || Channel Logs: http://infobot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || Current version: 2.4.18 || New shiny website! https://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20201 |
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| 07:06.10 | *** topic/#bzflag is https://BZFlag.org || https://www.openhub.net/p/bzflag || https://bzflag.org/help || Channel Logs: http://infobot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || Current version: 2.4.18 || New shiny website! https://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20201 |
| 07:06.10 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 13:21.00 | blast007 | "California law banning bots from pretending to be real people without disclosure" don't worry everyone, we're good: https://github.com/BZFlag-Dev/bzflag/blob/2.4/src/bzflag/playing.cxx#L1891 |
| 14:01.29 | allejo | hah |
| 14:04.29 | Dracos85 | LOL......And just how do they expect to enforce it? |
| 14:11.12 | blast007 | if you ask a robot cop if they're a robot cop, they have to tell you. it's totally the law! |
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| 17:17.22 | Flash | Siri, what time is it? |
| 17:17.35 | Flash | I am a non-humanoid artificial intelligence, and it is 12 o'clock |
| 17:25.39 | tupone | Flash: ar you satisfied by the answer? The math is now more intellegible? |
| 17:26.41 | Flash | you could have done nothing and I would have been satisfied. |
| 17:26.53 | Flash | you notice I marked it approved |
| 17:27.28 | tupone | yes, I did |
| 17:28.47 | tupone | For something I did not get it, so I left you to change test and commit there, before, if someone want, putting in the main repository |
| 17:30.11 | Flash | I've been on the phone the past two days, so I may have missed something |
| 17:33.32 | *** join/#bzflag Boombala (~Boom@107.173.140.115) |
| 17:40.54 | Flash | you mentioned astyle ... are we using it now? |
| 17:57.01 | tupone | yes |
| 17:57.09 | tupone | DEVINFO |
| 17:57.22 | Flash | where are the project settings? there should be a .astylerc somwhere |
| 17:57.44 | tupone | in DEVINFO there is the command line |
| 17:58.17 | Flash | ugh ... yeah, there's no good way to enforce style application |
| 17:58.25 | Flash | I made it a build target on my program |
| 18:37.53 | Flash | is there any analogous tool to apt/yum/brew for windows? |
| 18:38.51 | blast007 | for build dependencies, or just installing software? |
| 18:39.06 | Flash | mostly for installing |
| 18:39.21 | blast007 | https://chocolatey.org/ |
| 18:39.27 | Flash | is it widely used? |
| 18:39.40 | blast007 | dunno |
| 18:40.06 | blast007 | there's an (outdated) BZFlag package on there, though |
| 18:40.26 | Flash | I know for my Mac, I stumbled around with multiple ways of installing source projects, but homebrew seems to now be up to par with yum |
| 18:41.00 | Flash | it would be a lot easier for folks to be told "install these packages" (or even cooler, we could do it ourselves with a bzflag-dev package) |
| 18:41.11 | Flash | but I don't know anything about windows packaging |
| 18:41.14 | Flash | nor do I want to |
| 18:41.34 | blast007 | for mac there's 'brew cask install bzflag' |
| 18:41.53 | Flash | so that's all you need to start developing? |
| 18:41.58 | Flash | or an executable? |
| 18:42.05 | blast007 | that's for the binaries |
| 18:42.25 | Flash | do you know who created/maintains it? |
| 18:43.28 | blast007 | https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-cask/commits/master/Casks/bzflag.rb |
| 18:43.54 | blast007 | (I think allejo does PRs to update that file) |
| 18:44.00 | Flash | allejo is my hero |
| 18:44.28 | blast007 | example: https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-cask/pull/53996 |
| 18:45.38 | blast007 | he also maintains the flatpak/snap repos, afaik |
| 18:46.44 | Flash | we keep making new tools faster than I can learn them |
| 18:46.55 | allejo | :) |
| 18:47.07 | blast007 | I was pondering a launcher for BZFlag this morning. Something that would manage multiple versions of the game (or at least major versions) and would handle updates. |
| 18:47.37 | blast007 | And would abstract the whole 'how to install the package' part of it, deciding to use flatpak, snap, appimage, etc. |
| 18:47.51 | Flash | cross-platform? |
| 18:47.54 | blast007 | yeah |
| 18:48.03 | Flash | what language would you use? |
| 18:48.11 | Flash | (don't say PHP) |
| 18:48.31 | blast007 | http://gtk.php.net/ |
| 18:48.34 | blast007 | ducks |
| 18:48.58 | Flash | I'm sure this doesn't work anymore but... |
| 18:48.58 | blast007 | nah, my thought would be something like Python, though isn't Apple killing that off? |
| 18:49.04 | Flash | ~bzfrag blast007 |
| 18:49.04 | infobot | ACTION tries to kill blast007 but gets blown away by skill |
| 18:49.11 | Flash | oh bother |
| 18:49.24 | blast007 | yay, my override for the bzfrag still works :) |
| 18:49.31 | Flash | lol |
| 18:50.03 | Flash | Apple can't kill Python ... all the machine learning tools are written in it |
| 18:50.59 | blast007 | https://developer.apple.com/documentation/macos_release_notes/macos_catalina_10_15_beta_3_release_notes#3318257 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20109469 |
| 18:52.05 | Flash | just a packaging issue. "we don't want to take responsibility for the security of scripts" |
| 18:52.24 | Flash | funny, though, since bash is almost as dangerous |
| 18:52.43 | allejo | theyâre moving away from bash to zsh in Catalina iirc |
| 18:52.45 | Flash | harder to do network stuff |
| 18:52.55 | Flash | leaving GNU? |
| 18:53.55 | Flash | hey allejo, was it you or someone else who was working on a new prebuild system? |
| 19:01.46 | allejo | that's macsforme |
| 19:04.55 | allejo | https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208050 |
| 19:19.58 | Flash | in my past life using Sun, I was a tcsh guy, but found zsh a superior scripting environment to sh. bash and zsh are so close (I think they might be the same executable on modern Solaris) |
| 19:27.35 | Flash | looks like the bigger news is Apple is moving away from Intel |
| 21:21.04 | tupone | to me the vertex shader for the "normal view" seems ok. My branch GL2.0 |
| 21:21.19 | tupone | if some want to test ... |
| 21:21.29 | tupone | kthxbye |
| 21:47.48 | Flash | so I've never actually run directly from XCode ... is that possible? |
| 21:48.54 | Flash | Unknown option -NSDocumentRevisionsDebugMode. |
| 21:50.05 | blast007 | you have to manually fix that in the project settings |
| 21:50.29 | blast007 | https://github.com/BZFlag-Dev/bzflag/blob/2.4/README.MacOSX#L104-L109 |
| 21:51.20 | blast007 | I suppose a really silly hack would be an ifdef'ed bit of code for macos that accepts that argument and just ignore it instead of throwing an error |
| 21:51.30 | blast007 | ignores* |
| 21:51.43 | Flash | might not be too silly of a hack |
| 21:53.20 | blast007 | silly in the sense that it's required because of a dumb thing that xcode does |
| 22:10.49 | macsforme | good idea, actually |
| 22:10.59 | Flash | it's great that all this is documented, but darned annoying to have to read umpteen files to build a silly open source game |
| 22:11.16 | blast007 | Flash: it's documented on the website too |
| 22:11.30 | blast007 | https://www.bzflag.org/documentation/developer/compiling/macos/ |
| 22:11.41 | Flash | you are further making my point |
| 22:11.52 | blast007 | :) |
| 22:12.11 | blast007 | that does cover *all* of it though |
| 22:12.30 | blast007 | even working around the -NSDocumentRevisionDebugMode thing |
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| 22:15.24 | MarisaG52 | Hi, I need a key for my new bz server |
| 22:15.33 | MarisaG52 | Link seems to be down.... |
| 22:16.14 | blast007 | send me (blast) a message on the forums requesting a key and include the hostname for the server |
| 22:16.35 | MarisaG52 | Thanks! Will do it right now... |
| 22:18.31 | Flash | hey, there is/was a file someplace called CONTRIBUTING.md ... I can't find it. Did I make it up? |
| 22:22.25 | MarisaG52 | ok just PMed you a message blast007[m] |
| 22:24.34 | blast007 | k |
| 22:40.49 | Flash | to the mac wizards, should I have been able to build in XCode without running autogen.sh? |
| 22:41.01 | macsforme | yes |
| 22:41.08 | Flash | it didn't work |
| 22:41.16 | macsforme | what error? |
| 22:43.02 | Flash | two things. missing BZFlag-Info.plist and missing config.h |
| 22:43.35 | Flash | there are no .plist files in a fresh install, unless I did something incredibly odd |
| 22:44.23 | macsforme | BZFlag-Info.plist is automatically generated by the "Pre-Build Script" target |
| 22:44.35 | Flash | hmmm. I can try again |
| 22:45.51 | macsforme | sometimes there are issues when you run ./configure and it creates include/config.h, when there is already Xcode/config.h... so I wouldn't mix gnu make and Xcode in the same source directory |
| 22:48.12 | macsforme | someone also reported issues using xcodebuild from the command line (with a fresh clone), but I'm not aware of any problems building from the Xcode GUI |
| 22:50.23 | Flash | ok. I got confused because there were red icons (errors) when I opened the project. Looks like the build steps do clear that all up |
| 22:56.07 | Flash | dang, allejo... you are a busy beaver |
| 22:56.28 | macsforme | huh... well now I'm seeing an error about a missing BZFlag-Info.plist as well... on the second build attempt, it goes away |
| 22:56.43 | allejo | Flash, why's that? |
| 22:57.01 | Flash | you have commits everywhere I look |
| 22:57.22 | Flash | homebrew, the other package managers, now I see stakx ... |
| 22:58.09 | allejo | to be fair, stakx is my own creation but yea. i try to contribute places :D |
| 23:02.29 | Flash | should my built web site look right if I just browse the files, or do they need to be hosted? |
| 23:03.53 | allejo | for bzflag.org? needs to be hosted, or you could do `stakx serve` and have stakx start a web server (that currently has a few bugs) |
| 23:05.55 | Flash | so I tried this: https://github.com/stakx-io/stakx#download-a-release and I can build my website, but that doesn't leave me with a "stakx" command? |
| 23:06.30 | Flash | or I skipped something? |
| 23:07.04 | allejo | if you want the `stakx` command, just toss that executable in /usr/local/bin or somewhere in your $PATH |
| 23:07.19 | allejo | or just do `./stakx` from wherever that executable is |
| 23:07.25 | Flash | what put an executable in /usr/local/bin? |
| 23:07.37 | Flash | all I have is a .phar file |
| 23:08.28 | allejo | ah |
| 23:08.44 | allejo | a .phar is a PHP executable, you can remove the extension and just rename it to `stakx` |
| 23:09.21 | Flash | oh. it told me to do this : php ./stakx.phar build |
| 23:09.59 | allejo | up to you with how/where you want stakx |
| 23:10.34 | allejo | guess i could clear that up in the readme a tad bit more |
| 23:11.25 | Flash | looking at the .phar, it appears to expect /bin/stakx ? |
| 23:11.36 | Flash | require 'phar://' . __FILE__ . '/bin/stakx'; |
| 23:13.50 | allejo | yea, that's the internals for the program; i.e. it mirrors the structure in the git repo. bin/stakx is the main entry point for the program |
| 23:16.42 | Flash | are you concerned about redundant developer information buried in the bowels of the web site and things at the top-level of our source repo? |
| 23:24.51 | allejo | personally, i'm ok with it. i'd prefer the site version to be a bit more lightweight and the one in the repo to be more technical if needed |
| 23:25.00 | allejo | but that's just me |
| 23:25.07 | Flash | does the deployment target really matter, except for the "official" build? |
| 23:26.37 | allejo | no clue, to be honest. i don't think i ever really change my settings |
| 23:34.01 | BZNotify | bzflag.org: 03jwmelto 03opened pull request #31 "offer a homebrew alternative" (06https://git.io/fj6bS) |
| 23:34.02 | BZNotify | bzflag.org: 03jwmelto review_requested pull request #31 |
| 23:34.55 | Flash | I'm wondering if we need to update our version philosophy ... the world seems to be going to the "live at head" mindset |
| 23:36.00 | Flash | in truth, the only way to truly support older machines/OS/architectures is to have machines to test/run on. |
| 23:36.57 | blast007 | looks over at the collection of hardware in the corner of the room |
| 23:37.14 | Flash | sees a volunteer |
| 23:37.18 | macsforme | blast007: are the instructions for working around -NSDocumentRevisionsDebugMode actually shown on the web site? I didn't read it on the page you linked, and a grep of the bzflag.org repository is showing nothing |
| 23:37.33 | allejo | ^ |
| 23:37.47 | Flash | yes, it is |
| 23:37.50 | blast007 | "Go to the Product menu, then to Scheme, and click on Edit Scheme. Under the Options tab, uncheck "Allow debugging when using document Versions Browser"." |
| 23:38.16 | allejo | oh TIL |
| 23:38.35 | blast007 | Flash: that's what I use that hardware for |
| 23:38.54 | macsforme | okay, wrong grep... thanks |
| 23:39.27 | blast007 | I have a bunch of drives and graphics cards, and slot loading SATA hard drive bays on a couple cases so I can swap out operating systems quickly |
| 23:46.07 | Flash | any reason why extra command-line arguments should be errors in the first place? |
| 23:47.52 | allejo | in what context? |
| 23:48.00 | Flash | -NSDocumentRevisionsDebugMode |
| 23:48.10 | blast007 | most software I use treats unknown arguments are an error |
| 23:48.23 | blast007 | silently ignoring typos isn't a good thing |
| 23:52.50 | BZNotify | bzflag: 03macsforme 03opened pull request #202 "Ignore the -NSDocumentRevisionsDebugMode option added by Xcode" (06https://git.io/fj6NJ) |
| 23:52.51 | BZNotify | bzflag: 03macsforme review_requested pull request #202 |
| 23:56.25 | Flash | in github, how do you update your fork to be in sync with the upstream? |
| 23:57.24 | allejo | https://help.github.com/en/articles/syncing-a-fork |
| 23:57.47 | allejo | ~fork |
| 23:57.47 | infobot | spoon! |
| 23:57.52 | allejo | ... |
| 23:57.54 | Flash | in other words, you can't |
| 23:58.10 | Flash | you have to do it from the command line and push up to your fork |
| 23:58.13 | Flash | on github |
| 23:59.23 | allejo | ah yea, no way to do it in the browser afaik |
| 23:59.57 | blast007 | https://www.bzflag.org/documentation/developer/contributing/ documented here too |