| 00:21.24 | *** join/#bzflag infobot (ibot@208.53.50.136) |
| 00:21.24 | *** topic/#bzflag is https://BZFlag.org || http://ohloh.net/p/bzflag || https://bzflag.org/help || Channel Logs: http://infobot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || 2.4.14 released! https://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=19953 |
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| 00:48.49 | JeffM | Battlezone Gold.. 4 gigs, little bigger install than BZ |
| 01:04.00 | The_Noah | Does it matter what line endings source files use? |
| 01:04.20 | JeffM | it's best to have git checkout in native and check in with unix |
| 01:04.30 | JeffM | but no, not at a techincal level |
| 01:04.46 | JeffM | getting a file with mixed line endings can suck |
| 01:04.59 | The_Noah | Well, some do :D |
| 01:05.15 | The_Noah | Git keeps complaining about line endings. |
| 01:05.17 | JeffM | yes, that would be considered an error and shoudl be fixed. |
| 01:05.27 | JeffM | then your git may not be configured properly |
| 01:05.34 | JeffM | I have not seen any errors in git |
| 01:06.04 | The_Noah | I'm using GitHub Desktop. |
| 01:06.19 | The_Noah | Sometime I will learn the common Git commands, but I haven't yet. |
| 01:07.28 | JeffM | I've never used that |
| 01:07.53 | JeffM | I use tortoiseGIT |
| 01:11.33 | JeffM | ok, so far BattleZone... doesn't suck |
| 01:20.14 | JeffM | https://mixer.com/JeffM2501 |
| 01:21.48 | blast007 | says you're offline |
| 01:26.40 | JeffM | I restarted it |
| 01:30.51 | JeffM | did it work? |
| 01:31.10 | blast007 | yeah, but just went offline again - dunno if you turned the stream off |
| 01:31.15 | JeffM | yeah I did |
| 01:31.18 | blast007 | k |
| 01:31.22 | JeffM | it doesn't like me tabbing out |
| 01:31.27 | JeffM | and I have to make food |
| 01:31.47 | JeffM | but I like how it does it's vertical aiming |
| 01:31.53 | JeffM | it's not full turret |
| 01:32.06 | JeffM | and I like the round radar in the center |
| 01:32.42 | JeffM | the hack insteade of flag cap is interesting too |
| 01:36.11 | The_Noah | How do I get code into the official repo? |
| 01:37.09 | The_Noah | I've made a change. |
| 01:37.24 | blast007 | a change in master? |
| 01:37.34 | The_Noah | Yes. |
| 01:38.55 | blast007 | general pattern is that you fork the repo to your own account (using github's web interface), clone your fork, make a branch (like feature/NameOfYourFeature), make changes and commit to that branch, push that branch to your fork on github, then open a pull request for your fork/branch |
| 01:39.24 | blast007 | and read the DEVINFO file as well as that contains information about the copyright and code formatting |
| 01:39.33 | The_Noah | Ya, I read that. |
| 01:40.06 | blast007 | what is the change? |
| 01:40.15 | The_Noah | Oh, I forgot to fork before making changes. Is there a way to make a fork that uses the changes? |
| 01:40.30 | blast007 | you fork on the github site |
| 01:40.46 | blast007 | you could edit the remotes of your clone and point it to your fork |
| 01:40.49 | The_Noah | If you have a flag that has a limited number of shots, it displays it on the HUD. |
| 01:41.01 | JeffM | Fork, checkout to a new dir, push to the fork, usually in a new beach, then push |
| 01:41.15 | The_Noah | Okay. |
| 01:41.39 | JeffM | So you took out the chat message that does that? |
| 01:41.45 | The_Noah | No. |
| 01:41.49 | The_Noah | Should I? |
| 01:41.50 | The_Noah | I can. |
| 01:42.52 | JeffM | I donât think there needs to be 2 places |
| 01:42.57 | The_Noah | Okay. |
| 01:45.43 | JeffM | Where on the bus did you put it? |
| 01:45.57 | The_Noah | What bus? |
| 01:46.07 | JeffM | HUD sorry |
| 01:46.10 | JeffM | On phone |
| 01:46.25 | JeffM | Get on the bus Gus |
| 01:46.36 | The_Noah | To the left of the outer mouse-box. |
| 01:46.57 | The_Noah | I was going to do it right of the shot indicators, however when I did there was odd rendering issues. |
| 01:47.12 | The_Noah | I guess I could... |
| 01:47.19 | The_Noah | Which do you think would be better? |
| 01:47.33 | JeffM | Near the shots makes the most sense |
| 01:47.39 | The_Noah | Ya. |
| 01:48.24 | JeffM | One reason to fork is that itâs a lot easier to get help, we could get your fork and see what is wrong, etc... |
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| 01:49.23 | JeffM | Maybe Iâll try steam streaming battle zone after dinner |
| 01:50.21 | JeffM | I donât think Iâm allowed to use twitch, I donât have any kind of Airhorn sound effects on deck |
| 01:51.23 | JeffM | is being left to his own devices for several days |
| 02:13.29 | JeffM | yeah twich is odd, guess I'll have to stick with the mixer URL |
| 02:14.27 | blast007 | were you using OBS with twitch? |
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| 02:26.20 | JeffM | no, was tyring relive |
| 02:34.48 | The_Noah | In what file is the code for sending the "shots left" message(s)? |
| 02:35.11 | JeffM | probably playing or something |
| 02:35.16 | JeffM | its' where the message is received |
| 02:35.25 | JeffM | you shoudl be able to search the code for the message |
| 02:35.33 | The_Noah | It's not in playing. |
| 02:35.48 | JeffM | then search |
| 02:35.49 | The_Noah | I got rid of the first message saying how many you start with... that was in playing. |
| 02:36.01 | The_Noah | Can you search the content of files in VS? |
| 02:36.06 | JeffM | yeah |
| 02:36.21 | JeffM | find in files, entire solution |
| 02:37.38 | The_Noah | The "Search within file contents" box is checked, but it clearly didn't work because I searched something I know is in files. I guess I will have to do it the old fashion way. |
| 02:38.22 | JeffM | I can't see your screen, box in what? |
| 02:38.50 | JeffM | visual studio is a full IDE, it can find stuff in files |
| 02:39.07 | The_Noah | On the right of the "Search Solution Explorer" input field, there is a drop-down menu. The "Search within file contents" box is checked. |
| 02:39.17 | JeffM | whut? |
| 02:39.35 | JeffM | edit menu -> find -> find in files |
| 02:40.01 | JeffM | https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/fZ4aYTis/ |
| 02:40.07 | JeffM | it's pretty basic |
| 02:40.32 | The_Noah | Oh, ya. I hardly use those menus. |
| 02:40.44 | JeffM | oh.. where everthing actualy is? |
| 02:40.54 | JeffM | the sln explorer just finds file names |
| 02:40.59 | JeffM | it searches the solution |
| 02:41.02 | JeffM | not the files in the solution |
| 02:41.20 | JeffM | it just returns files, not the actual contents. |
| 02:41.33 | The_Noah | Ya. |
| 02:41.37 | JeffM | it will tell you what files have the search string, but you want the actual find function |
| 02:41.43 | JeffM | like a normal text editor |
| 02:41.56 | The_Noah | Usually I work on smaller projects, and ones that I have created so I know where everything is. |
| 02:44.39 | JeffM | yeah shows up pretty quick in a search |
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| 02:49.06 | BZnotify | [13bzflag] 15The-Noah-BZ opened pull request #170: Add shot limit on HUD (06master...06shot-limit-hud) 02https://git.io/fNurE |
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| 02:49.39 | The_Noah | Did I do everything correctly? |
| 02:51.30 | JeffM | tabs and formating are a little off |
| 02:51.48 | The_Noah | Oh. |
| 02:51.50 | JeffM | but overall it looks ok at first glance |
| 02:52.17 | JeffM | do you have a screenshot of it? |
| 02:52.26 | The_Noah | I can go get one. |
| 02:52.29 | JeffM | I don't see a label showing that the text is a limit |
| 02:52.36 | JeffM | is it just a number that floats there? |
| 02:54.25 | The_Noah | https://pasteboard.co/HwkHMYi.png |
| 02:54.39 | The_Noah | Ya, it's just a number. |
| 02:54.45 | JeffM | oh god... so many many site warnings... |
| 02:55.06 | JeffM | time to blacklist that hostname |
| 02:55.28 | The_Noah | Pasteboard? |
| 02:55.31 | JeffM | I'd put it above or below the shot shots, with something like shots left, or remaining. |
| 02:55.32 | JeffM | yeah |
| 02:56.06 | The_Noah | The thing is, when I try to draw a label in the section of code that draws the shot indicators, things get messed up. |
| 02:56.12 | The_Noah | I get no warnings :D |
| 02:56.43 | JeffM | then you have a very insecure browser configuration :) |
| 02:56.49 | JeffM | well you should debug and fix it |
| 02:57.06 | JeffM | my guess is you need to restore the state after you do the text |
| 02:57.07 | The_Noah | Okay. Should I cancel the poll-request then? |
| 02:57.12 | JeffM | update it |
| 02:57.17 | The_Noah | Okay. |
| 02:57.30 | JeffM | drawing text loads a texture, the shot slots are drawn untextured |
| 02:57.40 | JeffM | you need to put the GL state back to untextured after you draw the text. |
| 02:59.22 | JeffM | yeah pasteboard is hosting up some malicious ads |
| 02:59.30 | The_Noah | Oh. |
| 02:59.39 | The_Noah | I ignore ads :) |
| 02:59.51 | JeffM | they don't ignore you ;) |
| 03:00.54 | The_Noah | Does drawing a string automatically set the state to texture? |
| 03:01.01 | JeffM | yes |
| 03:01.08 | JeffM | openGL has no "text" primitives |
| 03:01.13 | The_Noah | Okay. |
| 03:01.15 | JeffM | the text is in a texture |
| 03:01.26 | The_Noah | Ya. |
| 03:02.40 | The_Noah | Should it be above or below the indicators? |
| 03:02.54 | JeffM | I'd try it both ways and see what looks best |
| 03:03.07 | JeffM | if it was me I'd mock it up in photoshop first to see how it'd look |
| 03:03.26 | The_Noah | I'm bad at mocking things up... :\ |
| 03:03.56 | JeffM | then what makes you good at making the thing in the end? |
| 03:04.21 | JeffM | if you can't describe it well, you can't make it well :) |
| 03:05.04 | JeffM | now that I've seen battlezone's GUI, I kinda want to mock something up for BZ |
| 03:05.36 | Zehra | BattleZone VR? |
| 03:05.44 | JeffM | it's not just VR now |
| 03:07.20 | JeffM | but yes, that one |
| 03:07.47 | JeffM | so Zehra what data do you have to backup your statements about retention? |
| 03:09.11 | Zehra | From reading the forums, there was a few key items which were said again and again. |
| 03:09.21 | JeffM | from people who had quit? |
| 03:09.38 | JeffM | or just other conjecture that other's have had? |
| 03:09.51 | JeffM | how many players who have left have you interviewed? |
| 03:10.57 | Zehra | I have only comments which were posted in the forums by others to back my claims. |
| 03:11.12 | JeffM | ok so none of that is from actual people who have quit then |
| 03:11.19 | JeffM | it's just yours and other's opinions |
| 03:11.27 | JeffM | it's all a guess |
| 03:11.30 | JeffM | not facts |
| 03:12.31 | Zehra | We can't be certain of anything. |
| 03:12.40 | Zehra | 100% |
| 03:13.01 | JeffM | no, but you can do more than just package up other people's ideas as if they were factual authorative statements. |
| 03:13.09 | JeffM | you can look for real data |
| 03:13.17 | JeffM | not just wild guesses |
| 03:13.37 | JeffM | you don't know if the issue is retention |
| 03:14.02 | JeffM | 400 players a day is 16 people playing an average of an hour a day |
| 03:14.18 | JeffM | that is pretty consitent with the server stats |
| 03:14.30 | JeffM | so are people leaving? or are people only playing an hour a day |
| 03:14.42 | JeffM | you state that the issue is retention but have no data to back that up |
| 03:15.34 | JeffM | you can't make these statements with out more data |
| 03:15.41 | JeffM | it just makes you look like a fool |
| 03:16.03 | JeffM | we need to know the repeat callsigns per day/week/month |
| 03:16.24 | JeffM | how many callsigns don't play more than one session, more than 3, more than 10, etc... |
| 03:16.45 | JeffM | THEN it's possible to make educated guesses about what the problem actualy is |
| 03:16.58 | JeffM | seaching a forum and pasting some links means nothing. |
| 03:20.07 | Zehra | Players have left for a large number of reasons... |
| 03:20.13 | JeffM | I'm sure |
| 03:20.42 | JeffM | but if you are going to have an adult discussion about the problem, get data to backup your statements |
| 03:23.51 | Zehra | The question is, what type of data, and how is it interpreted?... |
| 03:24.15 | Zehra | There's a lot of examples of 'successful' games out there... |
| 03:24.24 | JeffM | yes, |
| 03:24.32 | JeffM | we have data, we just need to consolodate it |
| 03:24.49 | JeffM | the 2 bits of data blast posted was because I asked for some counts. |
| 03:25.08 | JeffM | that's just the START of the data analysis that can be done. |
| 03:25.20 | JeffM | to get an ACTUAL retention ratio |
| 03:25.29 | JeffM | and THEN you can compare that to existing games |
| 03:26.08 | JeffM | but statements that "better maps will keep players" are just childish and idiotic when you can't back it up |
| 03:27.20 | Zehra | I tried to get some surveys... |
| 03:27.31 | JeffM | do you honestly think people keep playing fornight because they were able to go to the website and read documentation? |
| 03:27.43 | JeffM | yeah you tried, and got no real data. |
| 03:27.50 | Zehra | yup... |
| 03:28.05 | Zehra | Players weren't willing to place input, so that was what killed it. |
| 03:28.08 | allejo | surveys are a terrible representation of data. there's so much room for bias and skewed results |
| 03:28.13 | JeffM | yeah |
| 03:28.26 | JeffM | there is one servey I'd like to see added to bzflag, and it's not for the current playerbase |
| 03:28.38 | JeffM | I want an uninstall servey |
| 03:28.54 | JeffM | if retention is the issue, asking retained players does not help you ;) |
| 03:29.12 | JeffM | hence why I want to know how many players only try it once. |
| 03:30.48 | JeffM | also, fortnite doesn't have documentation on it's website... |
| 03:31.04 | JeffM | the FAQ is "how do I buy the battle pass?" |
| 03:31.08 | JeffM | because it's all about dances! |
| 03:31.21 | allejo | can we make tanks dance in 2.6? |
| 03:31.33 | JeffM | I'd have to give them legs |
| 03:31.46 | allejo | i'll create the github issue |
| 03:31.58 | JeffM | spider tanks it is then |
| 03:32.48 | JeffM | what color do you want your tachikoma ? |
| 03:33.19 | allejo | i'll take blue |
| 03:33.23 | JeffM | a wise choice |
| 03:34.22 | JeffM | I also have no clue where Zehra gets the ideas of "new server side features" |
| 03:34.43 | JeffM | most of the things listed are not actual things... |
| 03:35.22 | Zehra | I'd rather think of a positive future for BZ. |
| 03:35.32 | JeffM | you can't do that untill you know what it's problems are |
| 03:35.56 | JeffM | you can't ignore the actual problems, and just wish for "less cheats possible" |
| 03:36.03 | JeffM | that's not constructive |
| 03:36.26 | JeffM | to fix bzflag, it requires that the actual REAL problems are found, and REAL viable solutions are found. |
| 03:37.06 | JeffM | and your statements are just ... wrong |
| 03:37.11 | JeffM | Server Side Players can't play |
| 03:37.16 | JeffM | so they can't do tutorials |
| 03:37.27 | JeffM | there are no new textures for 2.6 |
| 03:37.32 | JeffM | there are no new game modes. |
| 03:37.36 | JeffM | there are no new map objects |
| 03:37.40 | Zehra | "Use guided missile to lock on the little green tank"... |
| 03:37.50 | JeffM | there are no server side cheat protections in |
| 03:38.03 | JeffM | SSPs can't die |
| 03:38.07 | JeffM | so that'd be useless |
| 03:38.35 | JeffM | you have so little clue about how the game works, yet you make statements as if you were an expert |
| 03:38.55 | JeffM | that's pretty much the classical definition of charlatan. |
| 03:39.15 | JeffM | post less... study more |
| 03:39.38 | JeffM | you don't need to have the last post of every thread |
| 03:46.24 | Zehra | I guess I'll provide much more detailed posts in the future. |
| 03:46.52 | JeffM | I recomend you not post |
| 03:47.00 | JeffM | it doesn't add anything to the conversation |
| 03:47.08 | JeffM | that thread is not about player retention |
| 03:47.19 | JeffM | it's about console ports and why it's a horrible idea |
| 03:47.24 | JeffM | it is not the fix bzflag thread |
| 03:48.23 | JeffM | you don't have the experience to contribute to that discussion |
| 03:49.11 | JeffM | IMHO that is |
| 03:51.18 | Zehra | It's good to have honest feedback, as it is something very rare these days. |
| 03:51.27 | Zehra | Thanks JeffM. |
| 03:52.57 | Zehra | knows some changes/improvements they will need to make |
| 04:02.32 | allejo | ~JeffM++ |
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| 06:05.13 | kierra | ~JeffM++ |
| 07:15.01 | macsforme | server-side players can't play? |
| 07:15.37 | macsforme | then what do they do? |
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| 13:45.21 | JeffM | Exist as observers |
| 13:45.46 | JeffM | They just arenât done yet |
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| 15:49.39 | The_Noah | I made another commit to the branch of my fork, but it's not in the pull request. Do I have to create a new poll request or is there some way to update the current one? |
| 15:52.06 | The_Noah | Oh, never mind. |
| 16:12.31 | blast007 | just have to push to your branch |
| 17:34.52 | The_Noah | Ya, I forgot to do that before checking the status of the pull request. |
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