| 00:39.21 | *** join/#bzflag Leppp_ (~Leppp@cpe-24-25-206-147.san.res.rr.com) |
| 01:11.14 | *** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (~I_Died_On@unaffiliated/idiedonce/x-1828535) |
| 10:58.05 | *** join/#bzflag nadir (uid134094@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zsdibmimckerotaj) |
| 14:43.02 | *** join/#bzflag Melody_ (~smuxi@190.8.32.183) |
| 14:43.12 | Melody_ | 8=====D |
| 14:43.14 | *** part/#bzflag Melody_ (~smuxi@190.8.32.183) |
| 14:43.21 | *** join/#bzflag kelsitutu (uid246809@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bdvygraggryrwjdy) |
| 14:59.03 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o blast007] by ChanServ |
| 14:59.06 | *** mode/#bzflag [+z] by blast007 |
| 14:59.19 | *** mode/#bzflag [+q $~a] by blast007 |
| 15:03.31 | *** mode/#bzflag [-bbbb *!*@*telecom.net.ar *!*@181.80.0.0/12 *!*@181.96.0.0/12 *!*@gateway/*/ip.190.230.*] by blast007 |
| 16:44.27 | blast007 | yup |
| 17:19.05 | *** join/#bzflag Zehra (~Zehra@unaffiliated/zehra) |
| 18:14.18 | *** join/#bzflag alfa1 (~alfa1@181.93.42.49) |
| 18:45.28 | Zehra | Is this a feature or a bug in BZFlag... |
| 18:46.02 | the_map | both |
| 18:46.13 | Zehra | I've silenced a client, but if it does a client query... |
| 18:46.19 | Zehra | It still displays. |
| 18:46.53 | Zehra | I can mute a client, but it will still display a client query... |
| 18:47.18 | the_map | unless I'm wrong, that's not a chat message; that's the server letting you know the query happened |
| 18:48.48 | Zehra | Yeah, but it should do it in a more subtle way. |
| 18:49.16 | Zehra | I've had one user becoming a bit of an announce... |
| 18:49.25 | Zehra | Silencing him did not work. |
| 18:50.17 | Zehra | Also making a request that server owners update configurations to disable clientquery would lead to little action taken. |
| 18:50.33 | blast007 | if someone is abusing /clientquery they should just be removed from the server or that command should be disabled (which I *think* may be tied to a permission now) |
| 18:50.56 | Zehra | Clientquery is a permission last time I checked. |
| 18:51.50 | Zehra | I joined a server and right after... clientquery... |
| 18:51.54 | blast007 | so there ya go.. have the server own remove that from normal players and only make it available for admins |
| 18:52.25 | Zehra | A large amount of servers have clientquery enabled... |
| 18:52.41 | Zehra | Due to it existing by default configurations... |
| 18:53.10 | Zehra | makes a request |
| 18:53.22 | blast007 | remove the feature completely? ;) |
| 18:53.36 | Zehra | That would work too. :) |
| 18:55.28 | Zehra | Server owners: Please disable clientquery. |
| 18:58.06 | the_map | did you try filing a /report against the player? |
| 18:58.45 | Zehra | Problem is they have dynamic IP... so banning would be a little difficult. |
| 18:58.57 | Zehra | Also wanted to be sure if it was a bug or something... |
| 18:59.01 | the_map | how do you know they have a dynamic IP? |
| 18:59.28 | Zehra | Lets say Strayers provided this information. |
| 18:59.35 | Zehra | (The site.) |
| 19:00.19 | blast007 | but of course that wouldn't be true |
| 19:00.25 | blast007 | strayer's site cannot get player IPs |
| 19:00.43 | Zehra | Unless it is from a server owner who runs it from his own PC. |
| 19:01.01 | blast007 | wut |
| 19:01.01 | Zehra | Than it is possible to receive the IP. |
| 19:01.18 | blast007 | I mean, I only run my servers on my cousin's PC, never my own. |
| 19:02.04 | Zehra | http://bzstats.strayer.de/servers/stats/?serverid=44022&lang=en |
| 19:03.09 | the_map | Ok, if you're running the server, then just take care of the permissions yourself. If you're an admin (which is how you could see IPs), then you should talk to the server owner. Otherwise, how did you find out? |
| 19:03.22 | Zehra | So from the consistent changing of IP... it is possible to determine it is dynamic. |
| 19:03.45 | the_map | you can see the IP? |
| 19:04.19 | Zehra | Search strayers site on the server section for "diver-sion.freemyip.com".... |
| 19:04.34 | Zehra | See the amount of servers which were online... and their IPs. |
| 19:04.40 | blast007 | sounds like he's talking about someone who runs a server from their home connection, thus they can see that player's IP via the dynamic DNS hostname |
| 19:05.18 | the_map | Zehra: so the server owner told you that the IP is dynamic? |
| 19:05.51 | Zehra | the_map: Strayers site shows different IPs listed if you search enough... |
| 19:05.53 | blast007 | oh sure, I wasn't trying to negate that |
| 19:06.19 | Zehra | This owner has been misusing the clientquery command on other servers too. |
| 19:06.46 | blast007 | did you tell them to stop? |
| 19:06.54 | Zehra | Yes. |
| 19:07.15 | blast007 | also, weren't you one that previously used /clientquery to create a stalker database? |
| 19:07.21 | blast007 | :P |
| 19:07.31 | the_map | So if I have this right, you have an issue with a server owner, and you would like server owners to disable players from using the /clientquery command? |
| 19:07.45 | the_map | How is that going to help? |
| 19:08.03 | Zehra | the_map: You seem to have forgotten what I said above... |
| 19:08.12 | Zehra | I said I silence them... |
| 19:08.13 | blast007 | he wants that server owner to stop using /clientquery because it bypasses his silence list and annoys him. |
| 19:09.02 | Zehra | blast007: Thank you. |
| 19:09.12 | the_map | <Zehra> Server owners: Please disable clientquery. |
| 19:09.18 | Zehra | wasn't sure if the_map was going to get the memo.... |
| 19:10.01 | Zehra | Well, I asked this after silence did not disable the notification... |
| 19:10.14 | Zehra | Still appears in bold letters... like a chat notification... |
| 19:10.31 | blast007 | "I asked this" This being what? |
| 19:10.41 | the_map | so if I understand correctly, you want server owners to disable the /clientquery command so that you don't get that message? |
| 19:10.58 | blast007 | the_map: from the server owner |
| 19:11.11 | blast007 | the server owner is the one running the command ;) |
| 19:11.14 | Zehra | the_map: You're taking my words out of context... :p |
| 19:11.18 | the_map | bingo, blast007 |
| 19:11.38 | Zehra | Here is what I did, I silenced said offender... |
| 19:11.44 | blast007 | Zehra: your context is messed up |
| 19:11.52 | blast007 | did you ask him to stop |
| 19:11.54 | blast007 | ? |
| 19:12.17 | Zehra | I mentioned very clearly for him to stop it... |
| 19:12.30 | blast007 | did you ask nicely? or did you make a demand? |
| 19:13.01 | Zehra | First time it was a mention of me disliking the command being used... |
| 19:13.15 | Zehra | Second time I requested he refrain from using it.. |
| 19:13.33 | Zehra | Third time I mentioned very strongly to stop using it. |
| 19:14.37 | blast007 | and the fourth time you commisioned North Korea to make a threat of nuclear attack |
| 19:14.42 | Zehra | I would have not had any further issue, if silence would have prevented chat like notifications from appearing. |
| 19:15.37 | Zehra | Which is why I asked if it was a bug or feature in client side mute. (silence) |
| 19:15.44 | blast007 | neither |
| 19:16.24 | Zehra | Is there an option to silence the notification ? |
| 19:16.40 | blast007 | turn off the chat panel ;) |
| 19:17.00 | Zehra | Works, except it would still appear at the top... |
| 19:17.10 | blast007 | for that, /localset noUI 1 |
| 19:17.26 | blast007 | of course, that takes away a lot of other stuff too ;) |
| 19:18.15 | allejo | I can't help but wonder why that's an option |
| 19:18.45 | Zehra | Client query ? |
| 19:19.07 | allejo | no, noUI |
| 19:20.08 | Zehra | Ah okay. |
| 19:20.58 | blast007 | I think most of the screenshots on the bzflag.org site have noUI turned on |
| 19:21.46 | allejo | oh, I thought noUI got rid of more... |
| 19:22.37 | blast007 | it turns off everything except the radar and chat panel (and the menu, chat box when you're writing a message, maybe the o menu and similar) |
| 19:23.46 | the_map | set that as default for people that want a full-screen radar :P |
| 19:23.53 | allejo | I suddenly know how to get cleaner screenshots now... |
| 19:24.23 | Zehra | I've altered my configurations a good bit. |
| 19:24.28 | the_map | allejo: windex |
| 19:24.48 | Zehra | Press c for console. ;) |
| 19:24.58 | the_map | c |
| 19:25.06 | the_map | doesn't work :( |
| 19:25.12 | blast007 | Press f to pay respects. |
| 19:27.03 | Zehra | Maybe we all share configurations we use, minus passwords of course. ;) |
| 19:27.50 | the_map | why...? |
| 19:28.01 | the_map | and that's a better thing for the forums |
| 19:28.17 | Zehra | Well, it's common sense of course... |
| 19:28.22 | blast007 | pastes his config into the chat |
| 19:28.48 | Zehra | I've heard it is on sale for 19.95... plus shipping and handling. |
| 19:29.17 | Zehra | Kind of reminds me of a joke I heard... |
| 19:29.49 | Zehra | There was this guy and he went into a bank to make a deposit of 50 USD in pennies... |
| 19:30.23 | Zehra | The banker told him to some common cents/sense. |
| 19:30.54 | Zehra | It's a lame joke, I know. :p |
| 19:31.00 | blast007 | I feel like the punchline was wrong anyway |
| 19:32.00 | Zehra | Maybe if I turned it around it would work better. |
| 19:32.39 | the_map | 5000 pennies is 27.56 lbs but £39.05 |
| 19:34.21 | Zehra | Anyways, the money these days isn't really backed by anything. |
| 19:34.45 | the_map | that's called the "tails" side of the coin |
| 19:35.12 | Zehra | The coins can be scrapped. :p |
| 19:35.24 | Zehra | Although it's illegal. |
| 19:35.55 | Zehra | Right now even pennies are not made completely of copper... it's too expensive... |
| 19:36.08 | blast007 | this relates to BZFlag how? |
| 19:36.40 | blast007 | /clientquery |
| 19:36.56 | blast007 | (maybe he'll run away now) |
| 19:37.17 | the_map | /ignore blast007 |
| 19:38.36 | Zehra | makes mod to use ST and CL |
| 19:38.48 | *** join/#bzflag BZnotify (~BZnotify@192.30.252.45) |
| 19:38.48 | BZnotify | [13bzflag] 15allejo pushed 1 new commit to 062.4: 02https://git.io/v5qhd |
| 19:38.48 | BZnotify | 13bzflag/062.4 14e0f5177 15allejo: Remove clientquery + pollset as default perms in bzfs |
| 19:38.48 | *** part/#bzflag BZnotify (~BZnotify@192.30.252.45) |
| 19:39.07 | Zehra | allejo: Thank you. :) |
| 19:40.27 | blast007 | ST+CL was pretty annoying in BZFlag X |
| 19:40.47 | blast007 | cuz I think it also combined it with SW... |
| 19:41.08 | blast007 | wonder why that fork died off? :P |
| 19:42.31 | Zehra | Would be nice to have flag attributes available to use in plug-ins... |
| 19:42.47 | blast007 | like what 2.99.x kinda had? |
| 19:43.29 | Zehra | I'd have to search through the code for exact details. |
| 19:44.02 | Zehra | At the moment it is somewhat possible... |
| 19:44.02 | blast007 | I think at least shot types were decoupled from the actual flags |
| 19:44.33 | blast007 | I feel like we've made the game *too* customizable though |
| 19:44.54 | blast007 | it makes it harder to learn to play because every server can be vastly different |
| 19:46.14 | Zehra | It seems sort of interesting in a way, because what if every server was so similar ? |
| 19:46.26 | Zehra | Might be good for a poll or something. |
| 19:46.41 | blast007 | that'd be a biased poll |
| 19:47.00 | Zehra | 15 vocal players give inaccurate results. :p |
| 19:47.21 | blast007 | Zehra: no, as in, the players that play either don't care about that or they're already used to it |
| 19:47.46 | blast007 | the ones we'd need the feedback from gave up and found other games to play |
| 19:48.40 | blast007 | at least our community isn't as toxic as Overwatch's :P |
| 19:50.25 | Zehra | I've almost left, but have found other games to play at times... |
| 19:50.41 | Zehra | (Although they lack authentication or some other thing.) :p |
| 19:51.11 | allejo | yea, I hate that Minesweeper requires an MS account now |
| 19:51.51 | Zehra | thinks more of MineCraft/Minetest style games |
| 19:54.22 | Zehra | The future goal seems to be to improve everything, from interface, voting, server-side everything... etc... |
| 19:56.29 | Zehra | Maybe a rewrite or something could be made as a side project. |
| 19:56.45 | Zehra | Sort of as a backup in case whatever happens. |
| 19:58.19 | Zehra | Idea is it would be sort of everything focused on anti-cheats, server-side systems, and the system itself.... |
| 19:58.55 | Zehra | One everything is working pretty well, than focus on appearance. |
| 20:02.33 | blast007 | "Idea is it would be sort of everything focused on anti-cheats, server-side systems, and the system itself...." that is so vague you could have just said "make game" |
| 20:05.38 | *** join/#bzflag BZnotify (~BZnotify@192.30.252.40) |
| 20:05.38 | BZnotify | [13bzflag] 15allejo pushed 1 new commit to 062.4: 02https://git.io/v5mfc |
| 20:05.38 | BZnotify | 13bzflag/062.4 14c1b9f41 15allejo: Don't send /clientquery on behalf of players |
| 20:05.38 | *** part/#bzflag BZnotify (~BZnotify@192.30.252.40) |
| 20:08.28 | allejo | that'll send client queries from the server instead of on behalf of the players. that'll fix your /silence concern on newer server builds, Zehra |
| 20:16.40 | Zehra | allejo: Thank you. |
| 20:21.29 | blast007 | allejo: are you sure? pretty sure the 2.4.12 client will never ignore messages from the server |
| 20:21.41 | blast007 | s/ignore/silence/ |
| 20:23.06 | allejo | my understanding of zehra's concern was that someone was doing /clientquery's which was causing his client to send a PM to the silenced player |
| 20:23.31 | allejo | that change will make /clientquery appear only to the person who sent the command, none of the players will see the PM send on their behalf |
| 20:23.32 | blast007 | well he never really said that |
| 20:23.45 | blast007 | it was VERY hard to figure out what he was talking about |
| 20:25.06 | blast007 | but yeah, that makes sense |
| 20:32.16 | blast007 | we'll need to compellingly productize cross-unit platforms |
| 20:32.43 | blast007 | reticulate the splines |
| 20:32.53 | allejo | agreed |
| 20:37.11 | allejo | blast, wanna start a branch where we can work on those changes? |
| 20:39.56 | kierra | wonders why someone would go repeatedly to a server where the owner does /clientquery to annoy |
| 20:54.19 | Zehra | thinks kierra needs some help |
| 20:54.42 | Zehra | I was on other servers to note... |
| 20:54.52 | Zehra | Mentioned above. |
| 20:56.16 | the_map | Zehra, be polite to kierra. |
| 20:56.47 | Zehra | the_map: Take your own advice when talking to others. ;) |
| 20:57.21 | Zehra | (Taking words before context was mentioned, doesn't seem so nice.) :p |
| 20:57.45 | Zehra | sort of wonders why "they" was not used when in reference to themselves. |
| 20:58.21 | allejo | now now, children |
| 20:58.53 | Zehra | is reminded of Zhukov. (BZFlag player.) |
| 21:03.33 | *** join/#bzflag BZnotify (~BZnotify@192.30.252.42) |
| 21:03.33 | BZnotify | [13bzflag] 15allejo opened pull request #83: Bump banner to 2.4.12 (062.4...062.4.12-banner) 02https://git.io/v5mqH |
| 21:03.33 | *** part/#bzflag BZnotify (~BZnotify@192.30.252.42) |
| 21:14.41 | kierra | laa |
| 21:25.19 | *** join/#bzflag nadir (uid134094@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-npmnkzyhwmdnrxkw) |
| 22:39.45 | kierra | I wonder the wisdom of allowing poorly managed servers or dubious hosts |
| 22:40.15 | kierra | but to each their poison, i guess. |
| 22:41.44 | Zehra | Well, everyone has their opinions and options. |
| 22:42.21 | Zehra | Some rather do something on their own, rather than face something which can create issues for them. |
| 22:43.56 | Zehra | I do question the reasoning for allowing some groups to be listed, despite not being public servers... |
| 22:45.51 | blast007 | Zehra: what? |
| 22:46.29 | Zehra | Well, there is a few servers which seem a bit questionable... |
| 22:47.09 | Zehra | But I can only say my opinions and nothing more. ;) |
| 22:47.33 | allejo | I hear those bzflag.allejo.io servers sell server logs to third-parties like amazon to better serve ads to players in-game |
| 22:48.16 | Zehra | Hehe. |
| 22:50.04 | Zehra | From searching a bit, seems most servers can be considered badly configured. |
| 22:50.04 | blast007 | Zehra: I mean about the groups |
| 22:51.17 | Zehra | Well, it was related to league groups... |
| 22:51.46 | Zehra | thinks it would be good for them to be listed only to those in the group |
| 22:52.06 | blast007 | why? |
| 22:52.11 | allejo | why? |
| 22:52.13 | blast007 | you can still watch |
| 22:52.25 | Zehra | Since filters provide no way of filtering out those servers.. |
| 22:52.33 | blast007 | oh please |
| 22:53.04 | Zehra | Well, I can search for specific servers, but not omit specific ones. |
| 22:54.12 | Zehra | I kind of feel it somewhat annoying... |
| 22:54.14 | blast007 | back in the day, I just proxied my list requests through a local PHP script that would fill in the right password for whatever account I used and would filter requests (and I even hackishly used the now useless password field to pass in options) |
| 22:54.30 | blast007 | filter results* |
| 22:55.11 | Zehra | Would be nice to have this script, if it could work with the current version of BZFlag and is open-source. |
| 22:56.39 | blast007 | write your own. it's pretty basic. |
| 22:57.51 | Zehra | searches for PHP book to write the script |
| 22:59.26 | blast007 | it's basic PHP, plus looking up the curl functions |
| 23:15.22 | kierra | ~allejo++ |
| 23:16.57 | allejo | i did a thing! |
| 23:17.58 | kierra | yes you did!!! |
| 23:41.48 | macsforme | I am opposed to removing the clientquery permission from the default permission list... client version information is useful, even to non-administrators, and the distraction factor is more of a UI design issue |
| 23:52.32 | allejo | how is /clientquery information used by regular players? i've never understood its purpose |
| 23:53.21 | macsforme | I'm also not sure I like the idea of filtering the notification through the silenced player list... isn't the intent of the notification to let the user know that their client sent the data to another user? so it seems to me one would still want to know that the info was shared, even if the requesting user is already silenced |
| 23:56.22 | macsforme | I use client info to see which players I need to encourage to update, and when I was more active I used it to be aware what distinct features/glitches/behavior another user's client might have (for example, when players stuck with 2.0.2 because we took away full-screen radar) |
| 23:56.49 | kierra | fwiw, I tend to agree with consti ....esp if someone is spamming clientquery it to harass....that should be dealt with. No legitimate host should be doing that |
| 23:57.23 | blast007 | I could encourage updates by turning off HTTP access to the list :P |
| 23:57.54 | allejo | people spam /clientquery because it'll cause clients to send PMs to the requesting players. that's the spam people see |
| 23:58.22 | allejo | my change will no longer cause clients to send those PMs to the requesting players |
| 23:58.53 | kierra | requesting players....is the one being queried? |
| 23:59.05 | kierra | or the one doing the query? |
| 23:59.13 | allejo | it's not line clients are directly responding to the clientquery "ping." it's the server that's giving over that information anyways so the server shouldn't be sending PMs on behalf of players anyways |
| 23:59.22 | allejo | the requesting player is the player who used /clientquery |
| 23:59.52 | allejo | err... one too many "anyways" |
| 23:59.59 | kierra | maybe just allow admins that ability to see? |