IRC log for #bzflag on 20170504

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00:19.59*** join/#bzflag infobot (ibot@rikers.org)
00:19.59*** topic/#bzflag is https://BZFlag.org || http://ohloh.net/p/bzflag || https://bzflag.org/help || Channel Logs: http://infobot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || 2.4.10 released! https://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19401
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07:39.55BZnotify[13bzflag.org] 15allejo 04force-pushed 06feature/api-events from 14c46faa4 to 143edec5d: 02https://git.io/v9Gs2
07:39.55BZnotify13bzflag.org/06feature/api-events 14da59a75 15allejo: Add plug-in API documentation as a collection
07:39.55BZnotify13bzflag.org/06feature/api-events 14dd0e77c 15allejo: Add a dynamic PageView to show the API events+docs
07:39.55BZnotify13bzflag.org/06feature/api-events 14b34a2b0 15allejo: Add syntax highlighting stylesheet
07:39.55*** part/#bzflag BZnotify (~BZnotify@192.30.252.40)
07:41.33allejoblast, the data's there for plugin usage in the API events. don't know how you'd want to display the info on the respective pages though. so take a look when you get a chance
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14:16.39the_maphow about with a pie chart?
14:42.18allejothat's true, pie charts are the one chart type that always communicate the most useful information
15:22.04JeffMeveryone loves pie
15:41.11the_mapidk the last time I had it
16:13.56JeffMdebates what to do next
16:14.06the_map?
16:14.23JeffMfree time code wise
16:15.02allejowrite a silly tank game!
16:15.29JeffMI do have some experience at that
16:16.58allejowith hats!
16:17.10JeffMtruck nutz
16:27.52JeffMI would like to see customizeable tank bits
16:27.56JeffMI don't think that's too hard
16:29.04JeffMand in the long run I think it'd be nice to have some custom tank bits that are only avaialble for registered users, and some or people that donate
16:30.49JeffMhas many ideas
16:40.35*** join/#bzflag Zehra (~Zehra@unaffiliated/zehra)
16:43.22ZehraDoes changing textures affect client CPU and RAM usage by any noticeable amount?
16:43.31JeffMdefine "changing"
16:44.13JeffMyou mean using another one other than the default?
16:44.23Zehrayes
16:44.30JeffMis it a custom texture?
16:44.37JeffMor one that is already in the game?
16:45.00Zehrait's just ones i've altered so they're simpler and different
16:45.10JeffMso a new image file?
16:45.26Zehrabasically yes
16:45.33JeffMthen that will add ram use
16:45.39JeffMevery new image file must be saved in memory
16:45.44JeffMand sent to the video card
16:46.15Zehraeven if it's simpler?
16:46.31JeffMis it samller in pixels?
16:46.37JeffMsmaller
16:46.50Zehrait's the same in pixels, but file size is smaller
16:46.56JeffMdoesn't mean anything
16:47.01JeffMtextures are stored uncompressed
16:47.12JeffMand every new image is a new bitmap that must be stored in ram
16:47.58JeffMbzflag allocates 4 bytes per pixel, regardless of it's color
16:48.37Zehraso if i'm understanding this correctly
16:49.00JeffMimage "complexity" isn't a thing for ram
16:49.22Zehraok
16:49.54Zehraso it's only going to affect it if the amount of pixels changes
16:50.13JeffMnot changes, you ADDED a picture
16:50.18JeffMwe still load the old image
16:50.24JeffMso now you have double the ram used
16:50.53Zehrai used /retexture and the old file isn't there
16:51.19JeffMwas the old texture a stock texture?
16:51.44Zehrait's the one included by default in the install
16:52.07JeffMso the old file IS there
16:52.13JeffMyou didn't delete it form your install
16:53.05Zehrai overwrote it
16:53.10JeffMahh
16:53.17JeffMthen yeah that's going to take the same ram
16:54.07Zehrawas hoping to reduce usage of ram
16:54.27JeffMhow much ram is your bzflag using?
16:54.28blast007did you recompress the PNG and hope it would take less memory? :)
16:55.38blast007I can run BZFlag on a Raspberry Pi 3 with a reasonable FPS (though at 800x480 resolution, since I was using through little touch screen display)
16:56.01JeffMthe standard texture set should be under 5 megs
16:56.04JeffMmaybe 8
16:56.29JeffMhow much vram do you have?
16:57.24Zehrait says 2.00 GB
16:57.43blast007"it" being what?
16:57.46JeffMthen you should not be running out of vram while playing bzflag
16:58.07JeffMor is that your system ram?
16:59.01Zehrait says it's the installed ram
16:59.14blast007vram = video RAM, not system RAM
16:59.14JeffMhow much does your video card have?
16:59.18JeffMthat's the important bit
16:59.23JeffMunless you have crap onboard
16:59.34JeffMthen it's how much system ram is allocated as video ram
17:00.08blast007that mac mini I had I believe had 64MB, and I only ran out when I was doing 1920x1200 output with 2.99.x (which was using TTF fonts rendered at high resolution via FTGL)
17:00.23JeffMyeah, that ate some rams
17:00.29JeffMlooked good tho
17:00.33blast007yup
17:00.48JeffMit should have AGPed more ram if it needed
17:00.56JeffMfound another one of those mac mini's when he moved
17:01.13blast007menu took a couple second to load there since it had to re-render them as it flushed them out of memory (or maybe it had to pull them back from system RAM?)
17:01.33blast007heh
17:01.54JeffMyeah probalby AGP cache flush
17:02.21Zehrait doesn't show show any vram from system
17:02.42blast007what OS are you using?
17:03.24Zehrawindows 10 64-bit and x64 based processor
17:03.54blast007I'd not think your hardware is bad enough to need to save VRAM then
17:04.16blast007dxdiag would probably have a Display tab that would tell you
17:04.42JeffMis it a laptop or a desktop?
17:04.58Zehrait's a laptop
17:05.09JeffMdid it cost over 600$?
17:05.26Zehrait cost about $200
17:05.35JeffMintel onboard
17:05.45blast007probably atom based too
17:05.45Zehrayes
17:05.50JeffMbut still the saving you make won't mprove performance
17:05.55JeffMget a new computer
17:06.06JeffMyour stuff is just slow anyway
17:06.15JeffMyou could try to lower the texture resolutions
17:06.23JeffMbut you can do that in the config with the max texture size
17:06.29blast007wonder what's faster - your laptop or my router ;)
17:06.31JeffMbzflag will rescale from the mips
17:06.53Zehraok
17:07.14blast007Zehra: what CPU you got in there?
17:07.42JeffMit says "etch-a-sketch'
17:08.10Zehrablast007: it says intel celeron processor n2840
17:08.53ZehraJeffM: rofl
17:09.41JeffMit's slower than an atom Z3735F
17:10.31blast007yeah, my router is faster ;)
17:10.44blast007http://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=2388&cmp[]=2520
17:10.49JeffMZehra: that is a very low end system not really made for games
17:10.57blast007it's barely made for youtube
17:11.11JeffMwill it even play a 1080p video?
17:11.28blast007it's a Bay Trail atom
17:11.32JeffMahh
17:11.44JeffMthats a netbook
17:12.33Zehraomg, my laptop has a worst CPU than a router =P
17:13.25Zehrai think i can get it to run 1080p video, but i probably need to kill a few tasks to get it to run smoothly
17:13.47blast007well, my router is a bit overkill too..
17:14.18JeffMif it can't play a video full screen, how can you expect it to play a game, same number of pixels, but more processing to compute the rendering
17:14.20blast007most home routers don't have a quad-core x86_64 CPU and 8GB of RAM
17:14.29JeffMeverything in the video is pre-computed
17:16.13Zehrashould see if they can get another computer soon
17:16.19blast007what you have is an email machine
17:17.00Zehra=P
17:17.38blast007if you don't need a laptop, I'd suggest building a desktop
17:19.04Zehrai did have a good desktop a while ago
17:19.35Zehrabut i think the hard drive or something failed, because it wouldn't boot up afterwards
17:19.43JeffMis disturbingly happy with his ryzen system.
17:20.40blast007JeffM: I've been considering doing one
17:20.55blast007like, a tiny silent VR capable machine
17:21.07JeffMit took a little bit for the bios to get worked out, but its nice now
17:21.27blast007waiting to see how Vega goes
17:21.28JeffM1700, with dual RX480s and 32 gigs of ram
17:21.35JeffMyeah that's probably wise
17:21.48blast007not like I really *need* another machine right now
17:22.56blast007the i7-5930K / GTX 980 Ti machine doesn't even get used that much..
17:23.33blast007I need to get some more storage for it.  amazing how fast 512GB fills up with modern games.
17:35.11Zehraany recommendations for a desktop hard drive?
17:35.22blast007WD Black
17:35.44blast007or a Samsung SSD
17:36.09Zehraok
17:36.19Zehrablast007: ty
17:37.00blast007I'm using an Intel DC drive in my main system, but that's more geared towards datacenter use (thus ths 'DC')
17:38.50Zehraah ok
17:39.59blast007I believe SSDs are a bit more expensive lately due to some shortage
17:40.08JeffMyeah, they went up
17:40.13JeffMram too
17:42.17Zehrait seems almost everything is more expensive
18:40.59JeffMHow many FPS do you normally get?
18:44.35Zehrame?
18:46.10JeffMYup
18:46.21allejo1
18:47.13Zehrasays about 27 or so
18:47.37Zehranow 28
18:49.06Zehrashould i use energy saver mode?
18:49.13JeffMNo
18:49.22JeffMThat's decent
18:50.57Zehrait seems energy saver was enabled =P
18:51.16JeffMIt's just a frenetic limiter
18:51.26JeffMFrame limiter
18:51.37Zehrait said 170 on fps after i turned it off
18:52.06JeffMVbl
18:52.20ZehraVbl?
18:52.23JeffMWhy are you trying to use less ram then?
18:53.58Zehrait seems that sometimes there's spikes in usage
18:54.12Zehralike with CPU and RAM
18:54.43Zehraso my pc and BZFlag slow down a good amount
18:55.09blast007in a lot of cases we're CPU bound
18:55.55blast007running the game when plugged into AC power may help a bit
18:56.17JeffMYes, keep your clock high
18:58.47Zehrai keep it plugged in almost always
18:59.49Zehraso jitter doesn't get out of hand
19:00.19blast007does it offer a wired network connection?
19:00.38Zehrai'm using wired always atm
19:00.42blast007k
19:01.05Zehraforgot their wifi password for their router
19:01.19blast007wired is better for real-time games anyway
19:01.46JeffMI can only get 14megs on my wifi
19:02.15Zehrai tried wifi once, but everything didn't work well at all =P
19:02.29blast007wifi has more issues with packet loss and jitter
19:02.55blast007and it's a half-duplex shared-media system
19:03.19blast007or is it "shared-medium"?
19:03.44JeffMShare your media over the medium
19:05.10Zehrawifi seems to be the thing which only works on television =P
19:05.39blast007on TV, computers don't need any power at all
19:05.50blast007they run on rainbows and fairy farts
19:06.16Zehralol
19:07.05Zehrait's like all the cool devices on tv... they look so good...
19:08.30Zehrafive minutes after trying to get whatever to work... the buyer realizes that it's special effects on tv and does not apply to real life
19:11.47blast007even better is when you buy a product because of specific features and they later remove that feature with a software update
19:16.59Zehrarofl
19:17.10Zehrathat's windows
19:17.23blast007that's the Playstation 3
19:17.33blast007that's a lot of things
19:17.34JeffMyeah, I can't recall windows remving a feature
19:17.38JeffMsony..... yeah
19:17.50JeffMthey even lost that lawsuit didn't they?
19:17.54blast007I had it with some linux-based NAS box at one point
19:18.01blast007JeffM: no idea
19:18.11blast007regardless, they still "won" because the feature stayed gone
19:18.16JeffMyeah
19:18.25JeffMI think some people got like 15$
19:19.31blast007if it was easy to avoid updating, I don't think it affected the people who just wanted to run linux on it, like the big clusters of PS3's
19:19.45blast007it was probably a problem only if you wanted to play games AND run linux on it
19:20.11JeffMpffffft everyone knows linux and games don't mix....
20:47.55JeffMblast007: is your eventual plan to totaly remove the wiki and just have docs on site, and other stuff like planing in Githubs?
20:55.34blast007yes
20:55.43JeffMmakes sense
20:56.47JeffMso the main services woudl be site, forums, auth, groups, list, assets, distro
21:09.47blast007basically
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