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| 00:19.24 | *** topic/#bzflag is https://BZFlag.org || http://ohloh.net/p/bzflag || https://bzflag.org/help || Channel Logs: http://infobot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || 2.4.10 released! https://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19401 |
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| 14:14.10 | kierra | ~allejo++ |
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| 17:14.39 | JeffM | heh, that bridge mesh has like 200,000 faces |
| 17:15.09 | blast007 | "But it runs fine on my 1080 Ti OC" |
| 17:15.50 | JeffM | I think it works in model tool, it just takes a HUGE amouht of time to re-index |
| 17:20.19 | JeffM | that compares every vert in every face to every other vert in every other face |
| 17:26.28 | JeffM | generates a 48 meg BZW file |
| 17:32.54 | JeffM | there should be no obj file that model tool can't eventualy read :) |
| 17:33.23 | JeffM | well unless it's over 2gig |
| 17:35.12 | JeffM | there are only a few laces to mod to make it 64 bit compatibile, but that would be silly |
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| 22:54.27 | macsforme | JeffM: in the intensity of a match (especially competitive league matches), you need to be able to glance back to the control box and instantly find your cursor position/movement vector... and actually the mouse cursor sometimes isn't ideal for that because it doesn't stand out enough |
| 22:54.53 | JeffM | yes, you need feedback that is for sure |
| 22:54.59 | JeffM | I'm not arguing that |
| 22:55.00 | macsforme | so it should be something high-contrast and obvious... something you can almost subconsciously monitor |
| 22:55.06 | JeffM | sure |
| 22:55.24 | JeffM | but it does not need to be a mouse cursor ;) |
| 22:55.45 | JeffM | did you read the PDF? |
| 22:56.01 | macsforme | yes |
| 22:56.39 | JeffM | and the sliders along the axes aren't clear enough? rather than looking in one section of the screen you'd rather search the entire screen for the location of a cursor? |
| 22:59.00 | macsforme | it could be depending on the colors... in the last picture you'd never be able to find those tiny triangles in time to react |
| 22:59.15 | JeffM | sure, that was the non optimal one for minum changes |
| 22:59.20 | JeffM | I'd make the triangles much bigger |
| 22:59.27 | JeffM | or let the user pick a scale |
| 22:59.49 | JeffM | maybe even change the color based on how far to 100% you were |
| 23:00.13 | JeffM | the specifics of the graphics is not the point of those mockups |
| 23:00.43 | JeffM | it' s just that every time I try to describe that GUI item, nobody "gets" it |
| 23:02.08 | macsforme | this concept trepan_ had seems pretty ideal to me: http://imgur.com/a/dJX3x |
| 23:02.37 | JeffM | keep it contrained in the box? |
| 23:02.50 | JeffM | my issue is to a new player, that looks like where your bullet would go |
| 23:02.52 | macsforme | if the cursor (a custom cursor, not the system cursor) is confined to the mousebox, I think the concept will be pretty clear |
| 23:03.11 | blast007 | a giant off-centered crosshair? |
| 23:03.13 | JeffM | sure, you'd draw that with GL |
| 23:03.22 | JeffM | the idea is the crosshair moves with the input |
| 23:03.24 | macsforme | that's the cursor, blast007 |
| 23:03.30 | blast007 | oh god |
| 23:03.31 | JeffM | it's the same idea, just extending the lines to meet |
| 23:03.35 | blast007 | it moves? |
| 23:03.36 | JeffM | yeah, it looks like a crosshair |
| 23:03.45 | JeffM | like that's where you are aiming |
| 23:03.54 | blast007 | that seems hugely distracting |
| 23:03.59 | JeffM | I understand the desire, it has similar functionalty to my idea |
| 23:04.07 | JeffM | show the axes relative to the box |
| 23:04.15 | JeffM | I'm not sure they need to be linked |
| 23:04.20 | blast007 | here, let's move this giant X all around the screen |
| 23:04.44 | JeffM | basicly my idea is to show just where the lines would cross the box |
| 23:04.54 | JeffM | not the insersection of the lines |
| 23:05.01 | JeffM | so inside out ideas :) |
| 23:05.23 | JeffM | that cursor is easy to find, and I get that |
| 23:05.39 | JeffM | but I'm not sure the point is to be able to define a screen point, something a cursor like that is for |
| 23:06.31 | JeffM | I do agree that the arrows in the second image are much too small, saw that after I drew it and zoomed out. |
| 23:10.27 | trepan_ | macsforme: i just ported that lua code over from springrts because I like bigcursors for cad work (iirc) |
| 23:10.40 | JeffM | that's what it looks like |
| 23:10.42 | JeffM | autocad |
| 23:10.54 | JeffM | do you have a digitizer trepan_ ? |
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| 23:12.23 | trepan | digitizer? like 3d printing or something? |
| 23:12.33 | JeffM | no, old cad device |
| 23:12.40 | trepan | ah, definitely not |
| 23:12.53 | trepan | my cad work is more schematics / layout |
| 23:13.01 | JeffM | you'd put a bluerpint under it, and it had a crosshair, you click on points to add them to the CAD file |
| 23:14.15 | JeffM | has a bunch of 3D Scaners here, they are "meh" |
| 23:14.34 | trepan | the other cursor indicator that currently exists in bzflag is the observer tracking line |
| 23:15.02 | trepan | don't know if that would help clarify the GUI for new users (maybe that couple with JeffM's crosshair?) |
| 23:15.20 | trepan | *coupled |
| 23:15.58 | trepan | and the big question is, do you changed the crosshair's color to red or green when looking at a teammate? :) |
| 23:16.24 | JeffM | I had code in some version that did that to the inner box, and put a big NO sign |
| 23:16.57 | trepan | hehe, NO is better than red; I could see folks thinking the red means shoot |
| 23:19.07 | macsforme | I think experimental mode will draw a red circle/slash symbol in front of a player if they're your teammate |
| 23:19.19 | JeffM | that sounds like somewhere I'd put it |
| 23:19.27 | JeffM | I rmember it with markers and stuff |
| 23:19.36 | macsforme | I remember because I had to fix it :P |
| 23:19.42 | JeffM | cool |
| 23:19.56 | macsforme | not really |
| 23:20.19 | JeffM | colaboration! |
| 23:22.15 | macsforme | anyway, the typical scenario is that during a match, you might barely miss a jump that you thought you had made, so you need to instantly precisely align the cursor for your next jump, so that you get just the right amount of spin because you're already right up against the block |
| 23:22.40 | JeffM | sure, thats why you need some kind of feedback mechanism |
| 23:22.45 | macsforme | and it will take you off guard, so being able to quickly find the cursor position is a must |
| 23:22.50 | JeffM | I just think you are stuck on cursor, becuase that's all you have |
| 23:23.08 | JeffM | it's good feedback to have |
| 23:23.38 | JeffM | do you think people have a general idea of where the currsor should be? or do they scan the entire screen? |
| 23:24.23 | JeffM | or most people have small screens that fit entirely in the visual field at all times? |
| 23:24.53 | macsforme | generally they have an idea (especially if confine to mousebox is on), but it's still possible to lose track |
| 23:25.09 | macsforme | sometimes I have to shake the mouse to find the cursor |
| 23:25.13 | JeffM | so keeping it always in a smaller area would help people in the long run |
| 23:25.22 | JeffM | less visual area to search |
| 23:26.09 | macsforme | yes, we have that already, but making the cursor/movement vector more obvious would still help |
| 23:26.10 | JeffM | if quickly finding it is one of the goals |
| 23:26.15 | JeffM | sure |
| 23:26.26 | JeffM | yeah it needs to be more obvious |
| 23:27.16 | JeffM | and when you are doing the spin thing, are you accurately trying to set your linear and rotary speed or just one? |
| 23:28.35 | JeffM | and how do people with joystics do that? |
| 23:28.41 | macsforme | both, depending on the jump, but generally the rotation will be more important because you're already right up against the object at an angle |
| 23:31.41 | macsforme | for example, you might land like this, and want to land on the block on your next jump (which needs to be made in a hurry): http://imgur.com/a/p0fHc |
| 23:32.12 | JeffM | something people with keyboards can't do? |
| 23:33.27 | macsforme | on keyboard you always know your input state... for that particular jump, I would probably tap backwards, enable slow movement, and then jump as I spin right |
| 23:33.55 | JeffM | and joysicks? just feel where your hands are? |
| 23:35.55 | macsforme | joysticks have a fixed point of reference, so yes, you should always be able to feel where you are |
| 23:36.07 | JeffM | and do you think a keyboard user with slow movment on would benifit from seeing the input in the same way as the mouse? |
| 23:36.37 | macsforme | sure... it would be more obvious if it was toggled by mistake |
| 23:36.56 | JeffM | that's all good info, thanks for taking the time to explain it to me |
| 23:38.25 | macsforme | np |