IRC log for #bzflag on 20170128

00:11.08macsformeanyone had a chance to try building with the premake branch?
00:12.41allejoimma try it on macOS later tonight
00:16.07macsformecool
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01:50.29JeffMwhere does it look for the windows deps?
01:52.08macsformethe same place it did before... whatever the BZ_DEPS environmental variable is set to
01:57.58macsformethe windows dependency directory could also be set up to be given as an argument to the premake script, if that would be easier
03:13.33JeffMand it's expecting the output folders in the path pointed to by the envrons?
03:23.17JeffMalso you did not update the readme with info on how to trigger the premake?
03:25.45JeffMhttps://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/ttJezb8k/
03:26.37JeffMahh I'm in the worng banch
03:32.09JeffMthe project tree is kind of crap
03:32.22JeffMit matches the folder structure, not super useful
03:32.39JeffMbetter to put the headers into a header filter
03:32.49JeffMalso it's lost the ability to build just the client or just the server
03:34.13JeffMthe game project won't build, it needs an include file that looks to be in bzfs GameKeeper.h
03:34.39JeffMwindows dependencies don't include SDL2
03:35.28JeffMand the code has some bad #defs for VC2015
03:36.12JeffMinclude <stdio.h> in win32.h and surround the #define snprintf_snprintf with a #ifndef snprintf
03:37.27JeffManything that includes std::max or std::min needs to #include<algorithm> too
03:37.33JeffMlike LocalPlayer.h
03:38.56JeffMcalls to isnan in CommandsImplementation.cxx are ambiguious,best to make it std:: and include<math>
03:39.30JeffMthose are the main errors that stop the build process on windows with 2015
03:52.24JeffMadd that list to the PR for posterity
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11:30.34blast007JeffM: when you say "windows dependencies don't include SDL2", what do you mean?  https://github.com/BZFlag-Dev/bzflag-dependencies/tree/master/src/SDL2
13:24.11JeffMblast007: the released bins, that's all I downloaded
13:24.23JeffMhttps://github.com/BZFlag-Dev/bzflag-dependencies/releases
14:48.21JeffMalso because it links to libcurl_debug.dll not a libcurl.dll, it's impossible to run debug on anything other than the version you build curl with, since the debug runtimes won't be loaded
15:21.29blast007is that last thing something I need to fix in the bzflag-dependencies, or is that in the premake stuff?
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15:30.09BZnotify[13bzflag-dependencies] 15blast007 pushed 4 new commits to 06master: 02https://git.io/vDJQ2
15:30.09BZnotify13bzflag-dependencies/06master 1455df9c4 15Scott Wichser: Squashed 'src/curl/' changes from eac9b18..09d74fe...
15:30.09BZnotify13bzflag-dependencies/06master 14776f285 15Scott Wichser: Merge commit '55df9c4e0de51ca1396f327ca6645531b9489a2f' to update to curl 7.52.1
15:30.09BZnotify13bzflag-dependencies/06master 14575847e 15Scott Wichser: Squashed 'src/c-ares/' changes from b354607..e168547...
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15:40.41blast007JeffM: try this instead: http://static.bzexcess.com/bzflag-dependencies-2017-01-28.zip
15:47.08JeffMthe last thing is not premake related, it's dependency related
15:47.38JeffMif you are going to have debug versions of the dependencies, then they need to be built in each version of VC that bz builds in
15:47.52JeffMwith premake, it allows more then just vc10.....
15:48.31JeffMif people arn't going to debug INTO the dependency libs, there is no problem having the debug build link to release libraries, and then there isn't an issue
15:48.43JeffMVC14 installs all the old runtimes, just not the debug runtimes.
15:50.47JeffMI'm assuming there is a desire to make it so bzflag is not dependent on a nearly 7 year old compiler?
15:52.14JeffMone that's free features are limited
16:01.19blast007sure
16:01.58blast007I also never got it to build 64-bit dependencies correctly, but I'm not sure if that's really a big deal
16:02.15JeffMI'd get 2015 working first
16:02.26JeffM64 bit support in VC10 express is "iffy"
16:02.43JeffMget 2015 working, fix the warnings, then 64 bit should be simpler.
16:04.15blast007wasn't in express
16:04.19JeffMahh
16:04.34JeffMwell people that use express may not have a good time with a 64 bit build
16:04.47blast007iirc, some of the deps didn't have 64-bit build modes, at least the way I was building them
16:04.47JeffMbetter to get to 2015, then everyone uses the same code
16:04.55JeffMyeah probalby
16:04.58JeffMmay have to add them
16:05.10blast007seeing if these build with 2015 now
16:05.22JeffMnot that 64 bit gets you anything, but it may be a good idea to get it ready in case there is a droping of 32 bit in the future
16:05.39JeffMI saw arch linux was droping 32 bit support in the next release
16:05.48blast007this is for Windows only
16:05.50JeffMas in not producing a 32 bit distro
16:05.51JeffMI know
16:06.08JeffMI'm just commenting on the general "32 bit sux" trends I see
16:06.15blast007given the surge of cheap Atom boxes that keep selling, I think Windows will have 32-bit for a long while yet
16:06.23JeffMpossibly
16:06.32JeffMthey still make 32 bit only CPUs?
16:06.41JeffMI thought all the atoms were 64 bit capable
16:06.44blast007they're 64-bit processors, but they have 32-bit UEFI-only
16:06.49JeffMahhh
16:07.09blast007Linux can handle doing a 32-bit bootloader with a 64-bit OS, but Windows doesn't yet, afaik
16:07.22JeffMyeah that would be odd for windows
16:07.55blast007well, just curl failed, it seems
16:08.03JeffMhttps://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/F9igUdP8/
16:08.14JeffMyeah you may need to add some #defs
16:08.57JeffMare you up to the current curl or an old curl? some networking stuff got stricter in 2015 and curl plays it fast and loose
16:09.16blast007current curl and c-ares
16:09.18JeffMthere is a winsock warning/error #def you can turn on I think
16:09.45blast007warnings in the c-ares part relating to _WINSOCK_DEPRECATED_NO_WARNINGS
16:09.59JeffMyeah that's one
16:11.20blast007is there anything included with Visual Studio that can patch source files?
16:11.30JeffMno
16:11.34blast007meh
16:12.35JeffMdepending on what your source is, you can get the correct app
16:19.28blast007nvm, actually builds if I fix the batch file properly.  Still have some references to VC 10 in some paths and build options.
16:19.37blast007Still had*
16:20.00JeffMcool
16:23.43blast007JeffM: http://static.bzexcess.com/bzflag-dependencies-2017-01-28-VC14.zip
16:25.30JeffMpushing the shinny candy like red button
16:29.31blast007yeah, when trying to build 64-bit deps, pdcurses and zlib builds 32-bit, and c-ares complains about "MSVCRT.lib(_chkstk_.obj) : fatal error LNK1112: module machine type 'x64' conflicts with target machine type 'X86'"
16:29.45blast007(so then libcurl also doesn't build)
16:29.53blast007SDL2 and regex build 64-bit just fine
16:35.06JeffMyeah that lets me debug
16:35.27JeffMso that and the other fixes I mentioned in the PR need to be fixed for 2015
16:36.46JeffMafter that it's just a bunch of warnings that need fixing
16:38.14JeffMas far as premake is concerned, I agree with you, first thing is that you all have to decide if it's viable for your debian distro. as in check in the make files, or if you want to drop debian inclusion.
16:38.53JeffMif debian inclusion is still a hard requrement, then premake can't be used unless there is an acceptable way for the build to work in unmodified debian.
16:40.26JeffMI see premake as having a dependency on debian distro (as in it must support it, if debian is supported), but debian does not have a dependency on premake (debian inclusion can work with many build systems).
16:41.52JeffMgiven debians self admited poor support for timely updates for game, I could see there being an argument for not being included in apt, but that would have to be something that your principles all agree on, and what the desired install/update system for those users will be moving forward.
16:43.09JeffMI do not know enough about how people put software on linux machines to comment on specific methods, I just know that from a "get the info of a new update out to users" standpoint,  that has to be done for windows and OSX anyway, so some mechanism will always exist for notifications.
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17:10.05BZnotify[13bzflag-dependencies] 15blast007 pushed 1 new commit to 06master: 02https://git.io/vDJbn
17:10.05BZnotify13bzflag-dependencies/06master 14608089a 15Scott Wichser: Add batch file for Visual C++ 2015.
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17:17.10BZnotify[13bzflag-dependencies] 15blast007 pushed 2 new commits to 06master: 02https://git.io/vDJbo
17:17.10BZnotify13bzflag-dependencies/06master 14dca7bf6 15Scott Wichser: Squashed 'src/zlib/' changes from a8895ac..7085a61...
17:17.10BZnotify13bzflag-dependencies/06master 14bf3b1d5 15Scott Wichser: Merge commit 'dca7bf677be2a7e5fc3d2e541f26a74e26265d0c' to update to zlib 1.2.11
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17:29.05BZnotify[13bzflag-dependencies] 15blast007 pushed 1 new commit to 06master: 02https://git.io/vDJNZ
17:29.05BZnotify13bzflag-dependencies/06master 140033f83 15Scott Wichser: Update the README.
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17:58.33jnoob22how do you send the team flag back to its owner's base if dropped on a pyramid or other surface like that?
17:59.15blast007are you asking from a player perspective or a map author perspective?
18:00.17jnoob22map author
18:00.37blast007I think it's just having an obstacle at 0, 0, 0
18:00.53jnoob22playing around with a map build and notice that it gets sent to center by default :(
18:00.59blast007there are safety zones as well, but that may be for *all* drops of the team flag, not just over pyramids
18:01.40jnoob22ok so it sounds like you have to trick it
18:02.29jnoob22maybe put a very small pyramid there at 0,0,0
18:05.01blast007You could try safety zones too.  I'm not sure how they work.
18:05.58jnoob22ok.... ill have a look for them on the wiki. Thanks blast007
18:08.01blast007the bzw man page mentions it
19:32.00JeffMblast007: premake5 also does not seem to be in fedora
19:32.25blast007it's not in Gentoo either ;)
19:33.08blast007it likely won't be officially packaged in any linux distribution
19:33.17macsformejnoob22: you use a zone with the "safety" flag
19:33.42macsformeJeffM: as stated in the PR, yes, the documentation would need to be updated with instructions for premake
19:33.43blast007Arch had it in their user repository, which is similar to Ubuntu's PPA
19:33.43JeffMfor a command line build system it is not bad, just doesn't seem to have wide support
19:34.16JeffMmacsforme: it may be nice to have some preliminary docs to help testers who may not know how to use premake
19:34.19macsformeand as stated in the PR, per `premake5 --help`, you use --disable-client, --disable-bzadmin, and --disable-plugins to turn certain projects off
19:34.34macsformeyes, the instructions are at the top of the PR
19:34.36JeffMthat's not what I want, I want to build seperate proejcts
19:34.46JeffMI don't want one tree with just client
19:34.50JeffMand one tree wiht just server
19:34.57JeffMI want 2 sln files in the same tree
19:35.03JeffMthat's what I used to have
19:35.37JeffMso I could open up each in an instance of VC and debug both the client and server at the same time
19:35.53JeffMbut changes to any code are applied to both, because both pull from the same tree
19:40.00macsformehmm
19:40.14macsformewell, you could clone the directory, and configure premake twice
19:40.35JeffMand then I'd have to make code commits twice
19:40.41JeffMif the file is used by both
19:40.44JeffMno thank you
19:41.04JeffMI'm trying to see what use cases would be lost by a change to premake
19:41.19macsformeyeah, and that's good information
19:42.11JeffMon linux (and maybe OSX) the debugger, GDB isn't part of the IDE so you can debug multiple executables easier, on VC it's all tied together
19:42.45macsformeyou can't open just a .vcxproj, only a .sln?
19:42.47JeffMso I would often debug both client and server with breakpoints on both sides of a net message to make sure I knew what was happening during transport
19:42.55JeffMthat would not include the dependet libs
19:43.06JeffMso it'd just include bzfs, not game, net, common, etc..
19:43.19JeffMthe SLN is what links it all together
19:43.30JeffMso no
19:43.46JeffMyou'd force windows devs to build there own seperate solution files
19:43.54JeffMsince all premake does is replace fullbuild
19:44.04JeffMsomething that really is only run during release
19:44.39JeffMhow does one build premake if one doesn't have premake?
19:45.23JeffMahh, found it
19:46.10macsformeblast007 said that he just uses the fullbuild.sln typically, so I just modeled premake's BZFlag.sln after that
19:46.36JeffMhow many developers do you have that actualy WORK in VC when fixing bugs and adding stuff?
19:47.01JeffMblast007: have you had to debug both sides before?
19:47.13JeffMls
19:47.18JeffMbahh wrong keyboard :)
19:47.58blast007yes
19:48.11JeffMhow did you do that?
19:48.22blast007same way as you
19:48.27JeffMk
19:48.54blast007I just *normally* use fullbuild so that I can more quickly see if other changes have broken any part of the Windows build
19:49.09JeffMsure, that makes sense for integration testing
19:49.20JeffMI think both proejct sets are needed for different reasons
19:49.28JeffMfullbuild is for sure needed
19:50.52macsformeI could probably create a flag that overrides the "builddir" setting, so you could create two directories of build files... or, as I stated, you could clone the whole source directory and configure premake in two different ways... so there would be two workarounds... I could look at creating multiple workspaces like we had before, I'm just not sure how that would be done at the moment
19:51.21JeffMyou can't just have it spit out multiple .sln files in the build dir?
19:51.53macsformepossibly
19:51.56blast007Windows doesn't need --disable-client, --disable-bzadmin, and --disable-plugins options
19:52.13JeffMyeah the ID kinda controlls that
19:53.06JeffMbut I think what is more important is to discuss the proposed solution of how to handle building packages for the various distros that don't include premake, include the autogen stuff in source, etc...
19:53.12macsformewhat if you just duplicate the sln file and rename it for when you need to have it open twice?
19:53.19JeffMthat part is currently the dealbreaker
19:53.28JeffMmacsforme: it would have the same key
19:53.37JeffMthere are problems with that
19:54.02JeffMGUIDS that arn't GU can be problematic
19:55.04macsformerun premake, rename BZFlag.sln, then run premake again, then?
19:55.12blast007no thanks
19:55.33JeffMyeah no
19:55.50blast007let's just keep the separate Visual Studio files
19:55.57blast007you can use premake for your platform
19:56.26JeffMall the build systems!
19:57.51blast007we're gonna have to maintain the autotools system for a few years anyway until premake5 starts to show up
19:58.13macsformeand when someone tries to modularize/refactor code, how are they going to keep three build systems on track with all the file movements while doing so?
19:58.51JeffMsame way they did before, or possibly use premake to generate the  replacment files that will be checked in
19:59.16JeffMyou've got the same issue if you check in the autotools stuff to support OSs that don't have premake
19:59.21blast007because it's a team.  I don't have OSX, but I can still push code that requires build system changes.
19:59.54JeffMand yeah, fixing stuff is part of working as a team
20:00.05JeffMyou have to integrate chagnes that come into your code
20:00.37macsformeas of our last discussion on what systems we're going to support, we aren't going to support any systems that don't already have premake
20:00.38blast007if this makes it easier for you on OSX, great, use it for OSX.  I'm fine with updating the Windows side (and typically the Linux side).
20:01.04JeffMmacsforme: it's not on fedora
20:01.12JeffMor gentoo
20:01.24blast007it's not on Debian, or Ubuntu, or Mint, or any other Debian based distribution, likely
20:01.41macsformeyes, it is... you just have to download it...
20:01.53JeffMthat can't happen for package distrobution
20:02.06JeffMand so far it's been a PAIN to get it to go on fedora
20:02.22JeffMthe packages have to be built from a source tarbal
20:02.25JeffMwe don't build them
20:02.26blast007so what will happen is that we either remove the game from Linux distributions or they ship the last version they could still build
20:02.50macsformeJeffM: did the pre-build binary not run on fedora?
20:03.11JeffMthe makefile eventualy did
20:03.17JeffMtrying to get it installed and added to the path now
20:03.26JeffMit is not as straightforward as adding a package
20:03.54blast007setting environment variables on linux is *fun*
20:03.59macsformedid you not try the pre-built binary, or did it not work? I just downloaded it and moved it to /usr/local/bin/
20:03.59JeffMbut look at what you are doing now, you are forcing not only the windows developers, now the linux developers to do extra steps just to get the build going
20:04.25JeffMahh I missed it's link on the page
20:04.49blast007macsforme: are you assuming that every user building the game has root access?
20:05.17JeffMcd ..
20:05.19JeffMbahh
20:05.26blast007enter root password:
20:06.03JeffMIh8Linux!
20:06.05macsformeyou already need to have root access to install the dependencies... if you installed/built the dependencies locally, you can install premake locally the same way
20:06.44JeffMthey could have been installed for you by the system administrator
20:06.53blast007but "can you install these development packages from apt-get" versus "can you put this random binary from a website here" are very different questions to ask your admin
20:07.09JeffMis there a reason premake4 was not used?
20:07.20JeffMis it closer to being included?
20:07.27macsformeJeffM: the "extra steps" up front allow us to reap enormous benefits later, simplifying the build configuration files in our repository, allowing for free movement/addition/removal of source files wherever they need to be, etc. etc.
20:08.03macsformepremake4 did not have some of the stuff we need for Xcode... and it's a dead-end branch, anyway
20:08.11JeffMwell the windows extra steps are not up front, they are forever.
20:08.37JeffMI can understand that viewpoint for linux, but what is the timeframe for 5?
20:08.51JeffMand honestly..... making your build system use ALPHA code... kinda scarry
20:09.58macsformereading up... did you have issues linking to dependencies? I have it set up so it links to the correct release/debug libraries, even with the different names
20:10.11JeffMwhat VC did you use?
20:10.24blast007premake 4.3 is stable (I guess?), 4.4 is beta, 5 is alpha
20:10.51macsforme2010
20:11.13JeffMthat is not viable for my system
20:11.33JeffMand that is why it worked for you, deps were built in the same version
20:12.06macsformeso those issues are resolved with blast007's updated dependencies?
20:12.10JeffMyes
20:12.22JeffMI added a comment to that affect in the PR
20:12.39JeffMwhat's left are project errors and code errors
20:14.19macsformewhich project errors? the game project not building?
20:14.29blast007hmm, so should VotingArbiter.h/cxx be in bzfs, not in game?
20:14.43JeffMprobably
20:14.46JeffMyes
20:14.53blast007VotingArbiter.h is only included by bzfs files, and GameKeeper is part of bzfs
20:15.07JeffMis game intended to be used by the client too?
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20:17.08macsformeyes, according to src/game/README
20:17.08JeffMis premake supposed to tell me if there is no compiler installed?
20:17.13blast007the bzflag project depends on game
20:17.26JeffMthen yes, voiting arbiter should be in bzfs only
20:17.31JeffMthat would fix that issue
20:18.18JeffMsweet... premake killed the fedora machine :)
20:20.53blast007should I move include/VotingArbiter.h to src/bzfs/ too?
20:21.09JeffMprobably
20:21.14JeffMthen see what fails
20:21.25blast007it all builds now (on Windows)
20:21.26JeffMit's higly unlikely any other lib includes it
20:21.31JeffMcool
20:21.45blast007I had to #include <algorithm> on a few files that used std::max/min
20:21.50JeffMyeah
20:22.00JeffMI put that in the PR comments too
20:22.10JeffMI had some issues with the isnan defs
20:22.46blast007ah, I guess it didn't show the <algorithm> part because it thought it was an HTML tag :)
20:22.57blast007so it just said "need to #include too"
20:23.11JeffMheh
20:23.51JeffM2015 has both isnan and std::isnan, so the proejcts may need some kind of "has" stuff to make it not redefine it
20:24.15JeffMI'm not sure how all that works, so I just pulled the redefines from my code to make it build
20:24.24JeffMto get past it
20:24.58JeffMeven with out premake, you can probably upgrade the main proejct to 2015 with the deps changes and those code fixes.
20:25.24blast007our logic currently #undef's isnan and redefines it to std::isnan
20:26.04blast007yeah, I'm gonna upgrade it to 2015
20:26.05JeffMstd::isnan is probably the best one to commonize on
20:27.08JeffMdo you really care about supporting versions of OSs that don't support STL?
20:28.25JeffMmachine has hard locked twice now building from premake, trying regular to build to see if it's the comptuer
20:28.55JeffMit is not a super new machine :)
20:29.25blast007I'd assume a hardware issue
20:29.29JeffMfound it in my dads garage when I had to clean it out, still had XP on it
20:29.35blast007heh
20:29.39JeffMsooooo much dust
20:30.23JeffMyeah it was his old machine with the XP install from dell,  his newer machine had 8.1, updated that to 10 when I got all the stuff home
20:30.35JeffMhas a dinky radion card tho
20:30.42JeffMlike half height
20:31.47blast007fun
20:32.03JeffMreally going to have to go through all the stuff I pulled from his house before I move in april
20:32.37macsformehow did it work in Visual Studio 2010, and on all the other platforms, with that bad file dependency?
20:32.44JeffMmy girlfriend asked if I had an extra monitor so she could have 2 on her laptop when she works from home, I was like "oh god yes, please take monitors"
20:33.04JeffMmacsforme: the old project specific included the bzfs dir I belive
20:33.31blast007JeffM: upgrade the GPU: http://i.imgur.com/OSApHam.jpg
20:33.39JeffMor did premake put it into the wrong proejct?
20:33.44JeffMheh
20:34.14JeffMI had all of those except the voodo3 at one point
20:34.31JeffMhell I had an NV1 at one point
20:34.44JeffMso far old make is still chugging along
20:35.05blast007I remember wanting to buy a voodoo card :P
20:35.39macsformepremake just incorporates all the files in each subdirectory except those explicitly removed
20:35.52macsformebut it worked in 2010 as-is
20:36.13JeffMthen the project may include them in the right order
20:36.23JeffMVC does not need the projects to match the files on dir
20:36.56JeffMhad you build with the regular projects before or was it a clean branch?
20:37.02JeffMVC caches stuff
20:37.26macsformepretty sure I tried building clean
20:37.37JeffMthen I dunno
20:37.46JeffMsomething was different
20:38.10JeffMI can not build with 2010 so I can't tell you
20:38.56blast0072010 is quite a pain to install these days, or more-so the DirectX SDK
20:39.03JeffMyeah
20:39.26JeffMit does not play nice with windows 10 and other tools for more modern compilers
20:39.37JeffMalso you have to isntall it BEFORE older versions
20:39.43blast007even on Windows 7 the DirectX part is a pain
20:39.58blast007if you have newish 2010 runtimes installed, the DX SDK installer just errors out
20:40.03JeffMand I ain't going to unninstall all my IDEs just to get 10
20:40.04JeffMyeah
20:40.08JeffMyou have to manualy fix a thing
20:40.25JeffM2015 includes all that as part of the windows SDK I belive
20:40.29blast007uninstall the runtimes, install the DX SDK, if it decides to work, then update your runtimes again
20:40.51JeffMyou can probalby get rid of the DX code now that you are on SDL2
20:41.07JeffMif there is any left I can probalby tell you other ways to do it
20:41.14blast007we don't use SDL for everything
20:41.20JeffMinput?
20:41.21blast007input is still the old stuff
20:41.31JeffMcould swap to X-Input
20:41.32blast007audio too, maybe (whatever that uses)
20:41.49JeffMdoes linux use SDL sound?
20:42.01blast007yes
20:42.06JeffMthen windows can too
20:42.19JeffMdoes SDL2 support force feedback?
20:42.33blast007supposedly
20:42.41blast007I don't think it worked for me though
20:42.53blast007I can't recall what all did or didn't work at the time
20:43.22blast007not all controllers do XInput though, right?
20:43.25JeffMhow much do you care about force feeback
20:43.42JeffMI belive xinput fallsback to joystick stuff
20:43.49blast007I don't care about it at all - but others might
20:43.53blast007I use kb/mouse
20:44.14JeffMI'd check, if it's not a big deal swap to SDL input, and make the person that cares hook up FF for all OSs
20:44.26JeffMok, so old build... works fine
20:44.30JeffMno crashy, runs fine
20:44.37JeffMpremake5 build, hardlocks the machine
20:44.51JeffMduring the "make" step in the bin dir
20:45.33blast007maybe the premake5 build is using more cores?
20:45.53JeffMhow can I tell regular make to use more cores?
20:46.18blast007make -jN  where N is the number of jobs (I usually do one more than cores)
20:46.44JeffMgo-go-gadget pentium D!
20:47.20blast007Why have just one Pentium 4 when you can pack two into the die?
20:49.20JeffMoh I guess it's a core 2 duo
20:50.45blast007oh, well that's not quite so bad then
20:51.00blast007could be the same chipset/socket type though :)
20:51.01JeffMit's a fine third PC
20:52.19JeffMyeah it's a core 2 duo E6750
20:52.28JeffMI know the other one is an early i3
20:52.30blast007is it time to drop XP support?
20:52.36JeffMYES
20:52.39blast007heh
20:53.00blast007but how will I test the game on my XP laptop!
20:53.11JeffMinstall linux on it
20:54.01blast007that'd make it much less useful
20:54.08JeffMor 10
20:54.16blast007oh god
20:54.22JeffMhell I have 10 on an origonal Asus tablet and it runs fine
20:54.36blast007I don't think that would run 10 very well.  It's a Pentium M.
20:55.10blast007the single core would spend all it's time sending out telemetry
20:55.51JeffMheh
20:57.14macsformeso bzadmin still didn't work, even with the new build of dependencies?
20:57.21JeffMdid not try
20:57.27JeffMwill do so
20:57.54JeffMregular build with -j3 also did not fail
20:59.51blast007fun
21:01.32macsformeallejo: you didn't add customPollTypeSample.dylib as a dependency of BZFlag.app, nor the extra files in plugins/customPollTypeSample/ to the copy files phase
21:02.17macsformeyet another example of stuff we wouldn't have to catch by hand if we were using premake :)
21:02.28allejothis is why we need premake!
21:02.35macsforme<3
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21:02.46BZnotify[13bzflag] 15blast007 pushed 1 new commit to 062.4: 02https://git.io/vDUJF
21:02.46BZnotify13bzflag/062.4 14228a3df 15Scott Wichser: Upgrade to Visual C++ 2015 and drop XP support.  Also moved the VotingArbiter files to src/bzfs/ since they are only used by bzfs, and it was causing build issues.
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21:04.51JeffMyes bzadmin builds with the new deps using premake and VC2015
21:06.45macsformeokay... so other than wanting individual .sln files, any other remaining problems with the premake system itself on windows?
21:06.59JeffMthe project layout is crap
21:07.21JeffMyou made a proejct folder named ".."
21:07.27JeffMthe headers arn't filtered
21:08.06JeffMresources arn't in standard locations
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21:08.23BZnotify[13bzflag] 15allejo pushed 1 new commit to 062.4: 02https://git.io/vDUUG
21:08.23BZnotify13bzflag/062.4 1405c3f2c 15allejo: Ensure sample poll plugin gets copied on xcode build
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21:08.25macsformewhat do you mean by the headers aren't filtered?
21:08.36blast007does it get rid of the project 'folders' in the solution explorer?
21:08.38JeffMdefault is to make a source a header filter folder
21:08.53JeffMin sln explorer
21:09.07JeffMand put filter all the headers into the header one, and source into the source one
21:09.16JeffMit does NOT have to match the file paths
21:09.20JeffMand usualy doesn't
21:09.36JeffMyou've also got files that arn't part of the build in there, like all the readmes
21:09.50JeffMblast007: he didn't remake the old sln folder structure
21:10.01macsformethat's so you can edit them... it's the same across platforms
21:10.01JeffMit is pulled from the file layout on disk
21:11.42JeffMit's functional, just not as easy to use as the old layout
21:11.43blast007that's only done for the bzfs project presently?
21:11.52macsformeso you are arguing there should be project folders for source files and header files separately within each project?
21:11.54JeffMyeah all the others are just at the root
21:12.13JeffMmacsforme: I'm a arguing it should look more like a standard windows C++ project
21:12.25JeffMand yes, thats what standard proejcts do
21:12.34JeffMusing filters
21:13.25blast007macsforme: this: http://static.bzexcess.com/project_folders.png
21:14.00JeffMhttps://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/t4jptp19/that's%20what%20I%20see
21:14.13JeffMand yeah, like that
21:14.25JeffMthey were broken up into logical sections for a reason
21:15.25blast007oh, that's worse than I thought it was gonna be
21:15.30JeffMyeah
21:15.46JeffMif it was just minor anoyance I'd have not complained
21:15.51JeffMbut that is crapppppay
21:17.16macsformeare they sorted manually or automatically?
21:17.28JeffMthe filters are part of the project
21:17.42JeffMthey can put individual files in locations or do *.whatever filters
21:17.47JeffMall depends how you set them up
21:19.03JeffMit's defined in the .filters file
21:19.05JeffMlike bzflag.vcxproj.filters
21:23.58macsformeokay, so there are some project subfolders made manually, just for the bzfs project, and just for Visual Studio
21:24.08macsformeif we're going to organize it that way, why don't we make them real subdirectories?
21:24.35macsformeand do it for the whole solution, not just one project
21:29.21JeffMall the main projects got manual filers made
21:29.27macsformeI could probably replicate that, but one of the main benefits of premake is that it will pick up changes like file movements automatically (it could even recurse into subdirectories)... so if we sort source files by hand into categories in just one of our IDEs, only that one IDE will benefit from it and it has to be updated by hand anytime something changes
21:29.33JeffMopen the origonal project and see
21:29.48JeffMthe current file structure is crap
21:30.06macsformethere is only one .filters file under MSVC/build/
21:30.16macsformefor bzfs
21:30.25JeffMand that's one project file
21:30.29JeffMthere should be one for each project file
21:30.39JeffMit's not for the .sln, it's for the project file
21:31.14macsformehttps://github.com/BZFlag-Dev/bzflag/tree/2.4/MSVC/build
21:32.14JeffMhmm, there should have been filters for all of them
21:32.19JeffMthat sucks
21:33.03macsformeif we split the files into subdirectories, premake can create the folders automatically, and the other IDEs will benefit as well
21:33.14JeffMsure
21:33.34JeffMmixing cpp and h files is never a good idea IMHO
21:33.44JeffMspecialy when the file counts get high
21:34.40macsformeas for the ".." folder, that's because all of the generated files are put in build/ right now... we could dump everything in the root-level directory, but that would just complicate the "premake5 clean" step a bit
21:35.29JeffMthe troubling fact for me is that you seem to be implying that the the projects can only ever mirror the exact folder strucutre, like you can't even tell it, "don't do the .."
21:35.49JeffMsounds like least common denominator syndrome
21:36.02JeffMthe system is only as good as the requirements of it's worst platform
21:37.06JeffMcan I ask why you selected premake to try over others, like cmake or scons?
21:37.15JeffMdoes it do something they don't?
21:37.50macsformeor you could see it as: we are giving up a few special features of certain IDEs in favor of having a simple, consistent build system that works across all platforms
21:38.08JeffMworks is not the same as useful
21:38.09blast007I don't need a consistent build system
21:38.27JeffMyou want your developers to be comfortable
21:38.33blast007so again, use it to fix your OSX woes
21:38.54macsformeafter dealing with gnu make's odd syntax (a combination of shell, m4, and something else), I didn't want to learn a proprietery scripting language for Cmake
21:39.14macsformealso premake is Lua, which we've talked about using for other things
21:39.21macsformeI didn't look at scons
21:39.50JeffMso the choice wasn't made on any actual features or support just what scripting langauge you personly would have to use?
21:39.56macsformeblast007: OS X support was fine
21:40.30blast007so then why are we doing this?  was someone complaining about our current build system?
21:41.01macsformeour autotools system is the one that has a lot of old cruft in it and is difficult to navigate
21:41.20blast007I haven't had issues with it
21:42.26allejofwiw, worked nicely for me on macOS. i'm with the general consensus that the project structure is different from what it was and not what i was expecting but i do like the ease of automatically adding plugins. so if anything, i'd definitely use it myself for plugin dev
21:43.14blast007on Windows we can build plugins out-of-tree
21:43.20macsformewe are doing this because it is time to take a chisel to our source code, ripping out a bunch of cruft, and re-implement/update things according to modern standards... having a highly-automated build system is a prerequisite to that, IMHO
21:43.47JeffMso you are saying it is impossible to do code changes with out this?
21:43.48blast007that's fine.  as things change, I'll be happy to update project files
21:44.06macsformeotherwise, as I've said, we have to simultaneously update three sets of project files... I started trying to do that, but it was a severe headache
21:44.23macsformeJeffM: impossible, no... impractical, yes
21:44.42blast007why are *you* updating three sets of project files?
21:45.12blast007update it for macOS, someone else can take care of Windows and Linux
21:46.19macsformeso our project will be in a perpetual state of brokenness on one or more platforms... that doesn't sound fun
21:46.28blast007that's what branches are for
21:47.01blast007the linux stuff is probably the easiest to update
21:47.14macsformeand even if there was only one platform to update, it's still easier if everything is picked up automatically than to have to manually add/remove files here and there... and then you miss stuff (we had an example just a few minutes ago)
21:47.36blast007right, so use premake for your OS
21:47.47blast007don't crap up ours
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21:48.41BZnotify[13bzflag] 15allejo pushed 1 new commit to 062.4: 02https://git.io/vDUkf
21:48.41BZnotify13bzflag/062.4 1461d485a 15allejo: Add customPollType plugin to Makefile.am
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21:50.10macsformeallejo: you going to fix those other issues I mentioned, or should I?
21:50.29macsformeoh nevermind, you did
21:50.52macsformeit's that file movement that still needs to be done
21:52.39allejodid I miss something?
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21:52.40BZnotify[13bzflag] 15allejo pushed 1 new commit to 062.4: 02https://git.io/vDUkZ
21:52.40BZnotify13bzflag/062.4 14dfd8e77 15allejo: ...and add it to configure.ac
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21:56.26allejoblast007, with your commit from today that doesn't update the solution to vc15, right?
21:56.48JeffMthey are still 10
21:56.53blast007oh, I probably need to hit the other two
21:57.01blast007did fullbuild update?
21:57.17JeffMno
21:57.31JeffMMicrosoft Visual Studio Solution File, Format Version 11.00
21:57.32JeffM# Visual Studio 2010
21:57.52JeffMare you going to fix the warnings too?
21:58.49JeffMif not I can fork a branch and do a PR for them
21:59.11allejoso as someone who never builds bz on windows, why is it stuck at vs10 and is it possible to use vs15 at least locally?
21:59.24JeffMthat's what he's trying to update
21:59.31JeffMhe did the proejct files just not the sln
21:59.43allejoooooo
21:59.50JeffMsince he's updated the dependencies it should no longer be "stuck" at 10
21:59.57JeffMit should be upgreaded to VC14
22:00.16JeffM15's not out till later this year
22:01.02allejoso vs 2015 is version 14?
22:01.06JeffMyes
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22:01.08BZnotify[13bzflag] 15macsforme pushed 1 new commit to 062.4: 02https://git.io/vDUkS
22:01.08BZnotify13bzflag/062.4 149f29bf1 15Joshua Bodine: Moved VotingArbiter files in Xcode, too.
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22:01.20JeffMthey do not release a version every year
22:01.32JeffMso the version number doesn't always match the year
22:01.43JeffM2010 just happend to be 10
22:01.45allejooh
22:01.50JeffMVC9 was actualy 2008
22:02.23JeffMVC11 was in 2012, VC12 was in 2013, and VC14 is the current shipping 2015
22:02.29JeffM2017 will be VC15
22:02.33JeffMand it is AWESOME
22:03.02JeffMcontext sensitive autocomplete
22:03.20blast007is there some menu item that does the solution upgrade, or is this a viable option?  http://stackoverflow.com/a/36669385
22:03.51JeffMopen the .sln in text editor
22:04.04JeffMchange the 11 to 14, change the 2010 to 2015, open in VC. Save all
22:04.12JeffMthat's how I do it fast
22:04.40macsformeafter this is done can we close that PR from khonkortisan?
22:04.47JeffMthe new XML format is very loose, it doesn't upgrade untill you use a feature from the version, because different versions can now use different compilers
22:05.27JeffMso I can use the VC10 compiler from a VC14 project, or the 14 compiler from VC13
22:05.34JeffMit's all pluginable
22:05.36blast007macsforme: yes, on both repos
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22:08.08arkaschaI experience a strange issue since I reinstalled my operating system (Linux):
22:08.28arkaschaI can login to servers in bzflag, but whatever I do my tank goes round in left circles.
22:08.44arkaschaI can steer using the keyboard, but that is exptremely unefficient.
22:09.04arkaschaThings worked fine before the reinstall and apart from the game the mouse behaves fine too...
22:09.12arkascha?Any ideas anyone?
22:10.06blast007which version of SDL is the game built against?  check the version string (should say either -SDL or -SDL2 at the end).
22:13.20arkaschablast007: libsdl-1.2
22:13.50blast007are you building the client yourself?
22:14.09arkaschablast007: yes, always did...
22:14.12arkaschaBZFlag client 2.4.2.20170114-MAINT-linux-gnu-SDL
22:14.20arkaschaSorry, that probably is what you referred to...
22:14.39arkaschaBut I also tried a prebuild version, same issue.
22:14.53blast007I'd recommend getting 2.4.8 source and building against SDL2, if you have at least SDL 2.0.4 avaialble on your distro
22:14.57JeffMblast007: I was wrong, replace the first 2 lines with these 4 https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/8Sl0eJ5h/
22:15.03JeffMthe file format only went to 12
22:15.13blast007JeffM: I did it the way I linked to and that worked
22:15.21JeffMk
22:15.29arkaschablast007: ok, thanks, I will check that.
22:15.40JeffMany change to the sln will dirty it
22:15.41blast007arkascha: 2.4.2 is very old and we fixed a LOT of issues since then (including some remotely triggerable crash issues)
22:16.28*** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (~a_meteori@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001)
22:17.45blast007which Linux distribution and version are you using?
22:18.18blast007welp, guess I should have asked that sooner
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22:20.18BZnotify[13bzflag] 15blast007 pushed 1 new commit to 062.4: 02https://git.io/vDUIX
22:20.18BZnotify13bzflag/062.4 148d680da 15Scott Wichser: Add the customPollTypeSample plugin to the Windows build and update the remaining solution/project files to Visual Studio 2015.
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22:23.09JeffMblast007: do you want me to submit a PR for the warnings?
22:23.38blast007I'm gonna check on them in a bit here.  Making sure we still build okay on the leenox.
22:23.44JeffMk
22:23.51JeffMthey are pretty easy to deal with
22:24.00JeffMadd a #def, do some casts
22:24.19JeffMlooks like the packers LOVE to send a 32 bit unsinged int into a byte
22:25.15JeffMat least I can build now, that's somethin
22:31.51blast007how old of a gcc do we want to support?  fails on Debian Squeeze (old-oldstable) with gcc 4.4.5 on "auto pollType : customPollTypes" in src/bzfs/commands.cxx  Worked on Debian Jessie (oldstable) with GCC 4.9.2.
22:32.28allejooh, auto can easily be changed
22:32.30JeffMdoesn't do range based for?
22:32.57RoscoePColtranemy vote (which isn't worth much) is nothing before 4.5
22:33.05JeffMisn't there already auto in 2.4?
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22:33.27BZnotify[13bzflag] 15blast007 pushed 1 new commit to 062.4: 02https://git.io/vDULC
22:33.27BZnotify13bzflag/062.4 141f3cb1e 15Scott Wichser: Fix warning about an unused parameter.
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22:33.35blast007I'm not sure
22:34.26allejosrc/bzflag/ShotStatistics.cxx uses auto
22:34.40allejoso ranged based for is probably the issue
22:35.08blast007let me get the actual error message
22:35.40blast007commands.cxx:3124: error: expected initializer before ‘:’ token
22:35.50JeffMyeah it doesn't like the range based for
22:36.13*** join/#bzflag hilmy (~hilmy@156.223.124.148)
22:36.16JeffMWHAT? why U have no ; ?!?!?!
22:36.57allejoif I didn't know I was look at IRC, you sound just like a gcc warning, jeff
22:37.13JeffMthat's why gcc is useless ;)
22:37.36blast007that's why we should rewrite everything in rust
22:37.43JeffMswift
22:37.49blast007does premake support rust?
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22:40.20BZnotify[13bzflag] 15JeffM2501 opened pull request #63: fix warnings (062.4...062.4_VC2015_warnings) 02https://git.io/vDULS
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22:40.34JeffMI made a PR for some of the warnings anway, I just wanted to see if that was the right way to do one, using a brank in my fork
22:41.01JeffMand I put some filters in for bzflag and common :)
22:41.21RoscoePColtranedoes anyone else use Comcast for ISP?
22:41.47RoscoePColtraneI got a note from SourceForge complaining that Comcast had marked one of the commit messages as spam
22:41.55RoscoePColtranejust 1 though
22:42.10RoscoePColtranethere was a whole flurry associated with the custom poll plugin
22:42.31RoscoePColtraneI'm wondering if the text to hyperlink ratio is what drove their spam filter
22:42.45blast007are you using Comcast's email?
22:42.52RoscoePColtraneultimately
22:42.59RoscoePColtranesourceforge forwards through it
22:43.11RoscoePColtranenot my first issue with them
22:43.24blast007isn't ISP email always pretty horrid?
22:43.36RoscoePColtraneI have a hosted domain that routinely blocks mail from them because they are frequently blacklisted
22:43.52JeffMWhy use sourceforge?
22:44.10RoscoePColtranecommit messages come from them
22:44.18blast007I guess that's the other thing.. we don't use sourceforge for that anymore
22:44.35blast007we use github
22:44.52RoscoePColtraneoh... I guess maybe I used my sourceforge alias on github
22:45.04JeffMYou must have put your sf email in your github account
22:45.09RoscoePColtrane^^^^^
22:45.42JeffMSee how many more redirects you can get
22:45.57JeffMOr sign up for a gmail account
22:45.57blast007you can add multiple emails to your github account and choose which one gets used for communication
22:46.25blast007(the rest get used for associating commits)
22:54.13*** join/#bzflag arkascha (~arkascha@2a02:8108:4a40:6c4::3)
22:54.38arkaschablast007: Version 2.4.8 has exactly the same issue as version 2.4.2, unfortunately.
22:54.54blast007hmm.
22:55.06arkaschaAh, wait. Apparently it still uses SDL, not SDL2
22:55.09arkaschaLet me check.
22:55.32blast007which linux distribution is this and what version of the distribution?
22:57.12blast007and in Options > Input Settings, is Joystick device set to 'Off'?
23:03.39blast007and can someone confirm if the lastest 2.4 git with SDL 1.2 does or does not hang when you exit?  I launch via 'bzflag -window 800x600' and go to Quit right away, and it freezes up.  If I pause execution in gdb and get a backtrace, it's in pthread_join, SDL_WaitThread, SDL_AudioQuit, SDL_QuitSubSystem, SDLMedia::closeAudio, closeSound, main.
23:04.40blast007it's doing it in a VM for me, so I'm not sure if it's just the wonkyness of a VM or an actual problem
23:05.43arkaschablast007: that is a standard openSUSE Leap 42.2 on a standard intel x86-64 system
23:06.02arkaschaI tried to play around with the input settings, no change.
23:06.20arkaschaCurrently building 2.4.8 against SDL2, one sec.
23:06.27blast007k
23:08.45arkaschablast007: brr, that one kills my x server :-(
23:09.00blast007fun
23:09.36blast007I bet openSUSE still looks at SourceForge for our releases instead of github.
23:09.53RoscoePColtraneblast007: pthread_join will hang, but there should be other threads?
23:09.59arkaschaSure. They are conservative.
23:10.24arkaschaHowever I downloaded the current version. No change in behavior.
23:10.26blast007arkascha: that's not what I mean.  We don't use SourceForge anymore.
23:10.34arkaschaI do know.
23:10.43arkaschaIt was a pun.
23:11.43*** join/#bzflag jh` (~Janne@85-23-152-190.bb.dnainternet.fi)
23:12.21jh`hi
23:13.13blast007arkascha: I'll see if I can replicate it in openSUSE 42.1 or Tumbleweed VM.
23:13.36arkaschablast007: That would be awesome!
23:18.07blast007it did not happen with the SDL2 client I had built on it.  let me get an SDL 1.2 client.
23:19.46arkaschahmm
23:20.14arkaschaPretty sure this is a configuration issue...
23:20.17arkaschaWonder what.
23:21.05blast007worked with their packaged client too
23:21.16blast007but this is a VM, so that doesn't necessarily say much
23:22.19arkaschaAlso tried removing my .bzf folder, no change.
23:22.21blast007you could rename ~/.bzf/2.4/config.cfg (or config.cfg.hostname, as it might use for 2.4.2) to something else
23:22.24blast007k, nvm :)
23:22.56blast007does the system have multiple mouse-like input devices?  like a touchscreen?
23:23.12arkaschaNope, standard Macbook Pro. 10 years old ;-)
23:23.18blast007hrm
23:23.38blast007were you able to try with SDL2?
23:23.39jh`blast the problem solver..i do something like that for my work
23:23.52arkaschaAs said: it kills my x serve immediately.
23:23.59arkaschaDidn't really dive into that.
23:24.06blast007oh right, sorry, forgot you said that
23:24.06arkaschaI have no experience with SDL things.
23:24.41arkaschaHm, I do have a touchpad, obviously.
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23:25.30arkaschaNo, no difference if I enable or disable that.
23:29.56blast007if you're able to boot from a Ubuntu 16.10 live DVD, you could install their bzflag package (sudo apt-get install bzflag) to see if the issue occurs there as well.
23:30.46arkaschaI failed to boot ubuntu on this system. it is really old and has some "creative" EFI setup...
23:31.09arkaschaopenSUSE is much better when it comes to hardware compatibility in my experience.
23:32.05blast007k, was a thought
23:32.40arkaschaWorked fine under openSUSE-13.1. Strange.
23:35.00arkaschablast007 could this be a mouse movement scaling issue? I have the impression the speed of my left circles changes with the mouse movement.
23:35.48blast007I'm not sure
23:36.12arkaschaI see the mouse fine, not as if it is stuck somehow.
23:36.14blast007does the issue occur in both full-screen and windowed?
23:36.23arkaschahave to check that...
23:37.23arkaschaem... how do I leave fullscreen view?!?
23:37.30blast007F1
23:37.36blast007I think
23:38.06arkaschabingo!
23:38.22arkaschaworks fine in windowed mode, fails in fullscreen mode.
23:39.35arkaschathis is a proprietary nvidia driver (340) on an optimus setup (9400M/9600M).
23:39.53blast007oh joy, optimus :)
23:39.59arkascha:-(
23:40.31arkaschaLooking forward to my Dell XPS because of that. Though I love this system otherwise...
23:40.51blast007wouldn't think that would affect this, but hybrid graphics has it's own level of "fun"
23:41.33arkaschaYeah, the grade of stability has a certain hybridness...
23:41.36blast007enough so that I'll probably only ever do intel/intel or amd/amd on my future laptops
23:42.01blast007(I've got an Intel CPU with intel/AMD hybrid graphics - and that's bad even in Windows)
23:42.20arkaschaThis is a nvidia/nvidia system... ;-)
23:42.32blast007no, it's intel/nvidia
23:42.40blast007that's what optimus is
23:42.46arkaschais it?
23:43.07arkaschaNo intel around anywhere.
23:43.34*** join/#bzflag L4m3r_ (~l4m3r@bzflag/developer/L4m3r)
23:43.34*** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r_] by ChanServ
23:43.55arkaschaNope, no intel, sorry.
23:44.04blast007well that's different, then
23:45.09arkaschaYou see the 9400/9600 combination?
23:45.13blast007yeah
23:55.33arkaschablast007 ok, thanks for your help so far, awesome.
23:55.43arkaschaGotta go, got a busy day tomorrow.
23:55.47arkaschaI'll be back.
23:55.48blast007cya

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