IRC log for #bzflag on 20160801

12:25.11*** join/#bzflag infobot (ibot@rikers.org)
12:25.11*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || http://ohloh.net/p/bzflag || https://wiki.bzflag.org/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://infobot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || 2.4.6 released! https://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=19241
12:25.11*** mode/#bzflag [+v infobot] by ChanServ
12:47.44blast007does it behave differently with SDL 1 vs SDL 2?
12:48.30JuestoHow accuracy differs between the two?
13:02.46*** join/#bzflag nitroxis (n@ipv6.nxs.re)
13:13.21blast007Juesto: talking about audio volume
13:13.29JuestoOh...
13:13.48Juestoare there official servers?
13:14.02Juestoand a good site to see the master list?
13:14.06blast007define "official"?
13:14.16Juestobzflag.net
13:14.20Juesto.org*
13:14.23blast007no
13:14.54Juestoso just the master is official so to speak ?
13:15.11blast007the project runs various services, including the server list
13:15.43Juestomotd, global login, updater, master list
13:15.46Juestocorrect?
13:15.47blast007this is a good site for viewing servers/player: http://bzstats.strayer.de
13:15.58blast007forums, wiki, texture hosting
13:16.03blast007there is no "updater"
13:16.15blast007and the global login is part of the list server
13:16.28JuestoAnd is there a way to manually authenticate or retry global login when it fails?
13:16.33Juesto(without reconnecting)
13:16.43blast007you have to reconnect
13:20.46JuestoWhy Wireframe appears to not work?
13:21.51Juestoany other good client slash command that can help fps?
13:21.57Juestobesides /retexture
13:23.09*** join/#bzflag nitroxis (n@ipv6.nxs.re)
13:29.50Juestobzflag celestial calculation is somewhat odd
13:30.02Juestobecause i've set it to buenos aires, argentina coordinates
13:30.09Juestoset time to  12pm and its night!
13:31.09Juestohow does the celestial calculation work exactly?
13:31.11Juestowho wrote it?
14:06.04Juestobtw, i seem to have a fps boost when increasing process priority
14:08.43blast007Juesto: you shouldn't use the debug graphics modes to play
14:16.33*** join/#bzflag JeffM (uid48618@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-myxfffmeztqjgncp)
14:17.39*** join/#bzflag jcp (sid143528@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539)
14:36.59JuestoI am just wondering, blast007
14:37.47JuestoAnd i just had a freeze preparing world when trying to connect to... Clay Hills
14:38.08Juestoblast007: i am NOT using debug to cheat
14:39.46Juestohm, its big and complex, no wonder it froze
14:41.46JuestoGetting closer to trees causes a slow down
14:41.50Juestowho made that map
14:50.36JuestoCould be tank labels be implemented in gameplay?
14:50.37*** join/#bzflag Void7 (~Void7@205.157.147.198)
14:51.08JuestoWithout cheating, like, only show them when the tank is in sight, not behind a wall
14:52.01JuestoWhy BZF development isn't wroth continiuing? its an excellent game, sort of
14:52.37JuestoYa, i just notice now that GM model has team color on the front
14:53.10Juestobut the sides are white and without the "experimental"-only model the shot is just that orange thing
14:53.37JuestoI find the SuperBullet shots model to be incredibly confusing, who wrote it
14:53.45Juesto"wrote"/designed it*
15:08.54moriahquestions questions questions :)
15:14.40Juesto??? :?
15:30.15Juestoallejo: hi, check /reports of server 5104, i am Zz
15:58.04JeffMJuesto: the author of the celestial calcs is long long gone.
15:58.37JeffMand the codebase is horrible, it has no real redeming qualities
15:58.50JeffMit would basicly have to be redone to get modern features, so why not just start over.
16:01.41allejoJuesto, I haven't been following along this channel over the weekend but have you been having issues overall? 5104 has fastmap installed and the observer issue sounds client side
16:06.04*** join/#bzflag Void7 (~Void7@205.157.147.198)
16:07.02JuestoIts a celeron computer but its the first map that freezes my client allejo
16:07.47Juestowhy not upgrade the  codebase just to keep the spirirt of the game?
16:07.56JeffMbecause it is THAT bad
16:08.03JeffMand nobody has wanted to do the work
16:08.04JuestoJeffM: redming qualities?
16:08.08JeffMnone
16:08.21JeffMit has been surpassed by modern games in every possible way
16:08.24Juestoredming??? i dont understand
16:08.38JuestoYeah, its surpassed, but people play it
16:08.40JeffMthere is nothing worth keeping
16:08.46JeffMa few people play it
16:08.47Juestojust like theres people playing Quake 2
16:08.51JeffMnobody really develops on it
16:08.59Juestoaltrough thats a different story actually
16:09.16JeffMyes, that was developed comercialy and picked up by an active community
16:09.22JuestoAnother game who is somewhat obseleted with a "fallen" development is amagetronad by the way
16:09.23JeffMbzflag was not
16:09.36Juestoyeah sorry, quake 2 is a different story
16:10.08JuestoShame because bzflag is a one-of-a-kind-game
16:10.21JeffMthe fix vs rewrite discussion has been happening for close to 10 years now
16:10.34JeffMnot really, there are thousands of free to play multiplayer online times.
16:10.56JeffMa modern player has expectations that bzflag does not meet
16:11.16JeffMlike menu items that can be clicked by the cursor arrow that is above them :)
16:12.06JeffMit takes YEARS to get a point release of bzflag out, and that's only because someone gets sick of it and pushes really hard.
16:12.12JuestoWell... bzflag is for oldschool games
16:12.13JeffMthen after that it goes back to nothing.
16:12.14Juestogamers*
16:12.27JeffMyeah and there are like 30 of you :)
16:12.40JuestoI wish i know C
16:12.46JeffMthen learn it
16:13.13Juestoi just dont want to feel stressed
16:13.15Juestothats why
16:13.29JeffMthen live with what you have
16:13.51JuestoThe most i could do is testing and reporting or compiling
16:14.06JeffMthere is no active work on bzflag right now
16:14.21JuestoI seem to have an attraction for... dead games(?)
16:14.58JuestoStill, bzflag is a one-of-a-kind tank game
16:15.25Juestoimo i dont 100% like other tank games
16:15.56Juestosorry for a somewhat pointless discussion
16:16.45JeffMyou are not the first person to have it :)
16:16.51JeffMlike I said, years and years
16:16.58JuestoOuch :(
16:17.22JeffMdesign work is happening on a new proejct
16:17.24Juestoallejo: curious, you're usually busy?
16:17.38JeffMsome people have jobs/school ;)
16:18.19JuestoOf course.... i am clueless....
16:18.25allejo^ :)
16:19.07allejoI meant to point at jeff's response not yours, Juesto
16:19.37Juesto:)
16:20.11allejoI wonder if fastmap would cause issues loading the map for you
16:20.48Juestoallejo: Perhaps, it does freeze my client when preparing world and when initializing world after texture processing
16:21.10Juestoand due to a DWM glitch the window disappears for a second before sucessfully joining
16:21.42JeffMif he's got a proxy or something that mucked with the cache file
16:21.42Juestoi mean, being presented with "Press <key> to respawn" or whatever
16:22.20JeffMor the computer just sucks
16:22.24JeffMwhat OS is it?
16:22.25Juestoi dont use proxy if's thats your concern
16:22.40JuestoDont remember? the celeron i mentioned
16:22.53JeffMno, I don't pay attention to everything you say
16:26.58JuestoOkay, here it is again: Celeron N2840 APU, hd graphics, and honestly, they are crap but they've been triyng to keep up with the others tech
16:27.05JeffMwhat OS?
16:27.07Juestonowdays a basic support includes HD
16:27.10Juestowin10
16:27.19JeffMyeah good luck
16:27.26Juestothe latest one, non-insider
16:27.40JeffMisn't that an atom CPU?
16:27.48Juestoits a celeron, not atom
16:27.53Juestoatom died
16:28.02Juestobut yeah, it could be considered atom like
16:28.16JeffMso it's a web browsing machine
16:28.17Juestobut its 2.16ghz with a turbo of 2.57ghz
16:28.26JuestoYup, at least some games do work
16:28.29JeffMoh that changes EVERYTHING!
16:28.54Juestosingle core with HT
16:29.23Juestoand i can play something like Counter-Strike: Global Offensive 30 fps-ish with the right settings
16:29.46JuestoRocket league which is a unreal engine 3 game runs at 8fps with the default settings
16:29.58JuestoPerhaps because of physx,
16:30.08Juestolowering it gets me 18 at best
16:30.32JuestoI know its not the best and that is probably the whole cause
16:30.52Juestobut i think its somewhat worth reporting
16:30.59Juestotheres people with worse computers than me
16:31.47JuestoAgain, i experience slow down, DDoS allejo?
16:32.05JuestoWell, i think i found the cause
16:32.12Juestoi kept the game minimized for a long time
16:32.18Juestoit causes a increased jitter
16:32.37JuestoDoes the engine suspends when you minimize?
16:32.52JuestoAnd apologies for being... spammy
16:32.57Juestoand somewhat annoying
16:32.59Juestoblushes
16:36.01Juestohopes he didnt got /ignore'd by anyone
16:36.46JeffMa lot of stuff happens when minimized
16:36.55JeffMand yes the main loop will get fewer cycles
16:39.22allejoI didn't ignore you, I'm just working
16:39.31allejofwiw
16:40.25Juestothanks.
16:40.53JuestoFYI: i recall avoiding experimental because of low fps, this card handles it perfectly by the way
16:41.12Juestoi have the same fps as in high, more or less
16:41.21Juestoso, its not super shitty after all
16:41.52JeffMplease watch your language here.
16:42.06JuestoWasnt intended as offensive
16:42.17Juestos/shitty/crappy/ Happy ?
16:42.39JeffMI know, that's just the rules here
16:42.53allejoprofanity isn't welcome here whether intended to offend or not :)
16:43.30Juestook :'(
16:45.43Juestowhat can i do for the game that doesnt involve coding?
16:50.56Juestowhy some flags are team colored and others are white ?
16:51.29JeffMteam flags are team flags
16:51.32JuestoAnd there is no way to see tank labels without obs? someone told me it was possile in old versions
16:51.32JeffMwhite flags are powerups
16:51.38xdotoolor powerdowns
16:51.41JeffMno, you can't see labels
16:51.44Juestoin the score i mean
16:51.45JeffMget over it
16:51.53Juesto<PROTECTED>
16:51.54xdotoollol JeffM
16:51.57Juestoplayer colored*
16:52.05Juestounlike team flags
16:52.24xdotoolL, GM, and SW are white
16:52.34xdotoolteam flags keep their own color
16:52.47xdotoolthe rest take the color of the player holding it
16:52.58JuestoThats what i meant, Why?
16:53.08JeffMbecause that's how it was writen long ago
16:53.10Juestowhats special of these flags
16:53.18JeffMthere is no design document for bzflag
16:53.31JeffMa lot of it is just what the origonal author choose to do
16:53.33xdotoolL and GM are strong flags, and SW you want to watch out for and stay away from that player
16:56.18JuestoIs there even a guideline?
16:56.39JuestoLike, i remember that some of the reports were somewhat dumb
16:56.50JeffMnope
16:56.57JeffMbzflag was closed source when it was started
16:57.00Juesto(i used to watch sourceforge issues)
16:57.04JuestoRecent
16:57.05Juesto2.x
16:57.14Juestoso not that old
16:57.47JuestoI am not sure if anyone remembers me years ago asking to play a dev build
16:58.58JeffM2.4.2 was in 2012, 2.0 was in 2005
16:59.08Juesto2.1
16:59.10JeffMall that was long after the oriogonal author left
16:59.25JeffM2.1 was never released
16:59.34Juesto2.1.x
16:59.46JeffMnever released
16:59.48Juestoi was around when vc2008 was used
16:59.58JeffMthere are several dead branches
17:00.09Juestoand 2.99.x was somewhat active at the time
17:00.10JeffMthe entire 2.2 line was scrapped
17:00.17JeffMalso scrapped
17:00.24Juestoi know
17:00.39Juestoit was different back then
17:00.45Juestobazhang was also here
17:01.47JeffMmore people cared back then
17:02.28Juestoits sad how it has decayed
17:03.06JuestoWas there a time when a lot of servers were full back then?
17:03.19Juestosorry if curiousity is annoying
17:05.10JeffMall things decay
17:05.30JeffMnothing lives forever
17:07.32JuestoDepends
17:07.46JeffMor at least with out constant work
17:07.53JeffMand this just stagnated
17:07.57Juestoand who is the oldest of the authors still around?
17:08.40JeffMin physical age? or people with the oldest code commits?
17:09.21Juestothe latter
17:09.23Juestocode-wise
17:09.36Juestoas you said, most of the original authors left
17:09.41JeffMtechincaly I commited code before tim did, before it was open source.
17:09.44Juestoperhaps i might have misread
17:09.53JeffMthere was only one author at the start
17:10.00JeffMchris made the entire thing
17:10.10JeffMit was closed source and only ran on SGI
17:10.19JeffMI helped get it runing on windows
17:10.30JeffMhe was going to try and sell it as a game
17:10.35JeffMbut later he open sourced it
17:10.43JeffMand transfered copyright to Tim
17:12.27JuestoGameplay and particularly ducati was born thanks to chris? (aka what nick?)
17:12.48JuestoSGI?
17:12.51JeffMthe entire thing was his idea, he wrote the entire thing
17:13.07JeffMhe has been gone a very long time
17:13.14JeffMhe works at pixar now
17:13.26JeffMSGI's are a type of computer
17:13.34JeffMthey ran MIPS processors
17:14.06Juestoi guess chris work remains today?
17:14.33JeffMthe vast majority of the code is still his work
17:14.36JeffMor structured around it
17:14.53Juestoany "vandalism"?
17:14.57JeffMhuh?
17:15.24Juestoas in, any "huge" change that made chris' design "distance"?
17:15.36JeffMnot really
17:15.54JeffMclient is still trusted by everyone
17:16.03JeffMservices are a bit different then he had
17:16.14JeffMthe renderer has an octree now
17:16.31JeffMbut the overall archetecture is the same
17:16.38JuestoI see, that's what i meant more or less
17:16.56JeffMall the changes are small and confined
17:17.11JuestoMost of the contribs were client/graphical?
17:17.28Juestooptimizations so to speak..?
17:17.51JeffMthe server was split up
17:18.05JeffMI changed the connection strucutre once
17:18.21JeffMthere were little changes all over
17:18.24Juestobzfs and bzadmin didnt exist until..?
17:18.24JeffMbzdb was new
17:18.37JeffMbzfs always existed
17:18.46JeffMit was just in one big single source file
17:18.53JeffMbzadmin was someone's hack proejct
17:19.11JeffMbzflag was not writen to work over the internet, so bzadmin was not part of the inital design
17:19.18JeffMit's tacked on
17:19.32JeffMpart of the reason the codebase is so nasty, shared files no clean lib breaks.
17:20.32Juestowhen the dependencies it has now came in?
17:20.46JeffMover time
17:20.50JeffMas they were needed
17:21.08JeffMservices needed curl and ares
17:21.19JeffManiso needed glew
17:21.25JeffMpng needed zlib
17:21.41Juestocould i safely assume 2.0 was the internet-ready-launch?
17:21.55JeffMthat would be a poor assumption, but you can do whatever you want
17:22.04JeffMthe game still isn't "internet ready"
17:22.07JeffMit trusts the client
17:22.12JeffMand doesn't know about lag.
17:22.24Juestoso theres not even lag compensation?
17:22.27JeffMnope
17:22.35JeffMit's a LAN game
17:22.41Juestohow come it can be smoothly played?
17:22.45JuestoAh, i see
17:23.04JeffMit can't, thats why it looks like you hit people sometimes but they don't explode
17:23.11JeffMit's all based on luck
17:23.26macsforme<PROTECTED>
17:23.30JeffMor leading your shot based on what you hope the other players lag is
17:23.35JeffMmacsforme: initaly yes
17:23.45JeffMthen once we had it, we used it for other stuff.
17:24.02JeffMglew is pretty lightweight, it's just a header IIRC
17:24.12*** join/#bzflag KaadmY (uid135503@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dairkuydqqbmsvhy)
17:24.20macsformeGLEW was still only used for that one thing by the time we finally removed it and replaced it with a few lines of code
17:24.47macsformeunless you're referring to something in another branch that used it
17:24.49Juestocurrently it doesnt compile
17:24.56JeffMmaybe
17:25.08JeffMI forget what was in 2.99 and what wasn't
17:25.22JuestoSome of the readmes are outdated
17:25.39JeffMis an unreliable narrator
17:26.08JuestoI have finally managed to compiple the deps on CLI using a old version of the script or something
17:26.11Juestobatch*
17:26.26Juestothe biggest issue was not having msbuild in PATH
17:26.50JeffMwhen I left it, everything built using the visual studio project files
17:26.56JeffMdunno what happened after that
17:27.14JuestoJeffM: now it doesnt even properly build
17:27.39JeffMthat can happen
17:28.21JeffMwindows builds got broke all the time
17:28.30Juestoallejo: and i am having slow motion again, tanks teleporting, being able to instantly shoot,
17:28.49Juestoserver connection appears to be okay, time: 0ms and fps... 32
17:29.05Juestowhen it unlagged the last time i seen a fps reading of 1020 or something
17:29.07JeffMhe's not your personal attack checker
17:29.09KaadmYlag shows as 0ms until a couple seconds
17:29.58JuestoKaadmY: in Y i mean, thats not lag
17:30.07KaadmY<PROTECTED>
17:30.11KaadmYah*
17:30.19KaadmYthat's ms between frames
17:30.27Juestomy jitter is insane too, 500ms
17:30.34Juestoand one guy is 100% loss/ooo
17:30.53JuestoHoly! 2060 of jitter
17:31.06JuestoAnd alpha1 just kicked me for nr
17:31.07KaadmYthat happens :)
17:31.26JuestoNow the effects were left in the field.. its interesting
17:31.35KaadmYbzflag is really unique
17:31.40KaadmYit has pausing in multiplayer
17:31.51Juesto(i wasnt paused btw)
17:31.53KaadmYJuesto: effects stay after you disconnect
17:32.01JuestoThey dont disappear?
17:32.05KaadmYnope
17:32.12KaadmYthey'll time out eventually
17:32.18KaadmYwhen the effect finishes
17:32.26KaadmYbut they're not cleared when you disconnect
17:33.02JuestoWeid, still eperiencing it!
17:33.14Juestothe effect never finished
17:33.23KaadmYyup
17:38.54JuestoWeird, bzadmin closes itself when launched from shortcut
17:47.33JuestoWindows 10 enhanced consolemode might be the problem?
17:47.50Juestobecause only if i double click bzadmin it closes itself
17:48.05Juestoif i open a cmd and launch it, no problem
17:55.17alezakosblast007: About the volume thing, I didn't notice any difference between SDL1,SDL2 and native windows
17:55.48alezakosI think bzflag's code is entirely responsible for this
18:08.19JeffMbzflag does it's own doppler shift computatons so it computes a custom waveform.
18:10.20Juestoaka normalization, right?
18:10.56Juestookay guys, i am not sure what is the cause of my "slow motion" issue but it was longer this time and connecting to another server and returning fixed it.
18:11.02Juestoi suspect something with the connection
18:11.10Juestoalpha1 assisted me
18:11.37Juesto..and leaving the game minimized
18:13.33JuestoDo some servers force a celestinal setting?
18:13.54Juestobecause on sahara server i am noticing the sun and moon are close to each other and it just rotates
18:13.58Juestoinstead of day and night
18:14.03Juestorotates horizontally
18:14.16JeffMno, it computes what direction the sound is moving and dopler shifts it
18:14.21JeffMfor a fake 3d sournd effect
18:15.46Juestoi wonder which is tim's nick
18:16.00JeffMhe is not in this channel
18:16.02Juestoand i just realized that its noted in the credits
18:16.13Juestowow 1993
18:16.34Juestoits interesting, some servers are on solaris
18:18.47JuestoHow do i re-bind a function that is not listed in Input?
18:19.07Juestobecause i just mistakenly overriden F10 which is zoom out in observer
18:19.21Juestoaccidentally*
18:20.30blast007JeffM: and yes, the N2840 is an atom, just labeled a "Celeron"
18:20.38JeffMbranding!
18:21.04JuestoNvm, i just did correct it
18:21.10Juestoit is zoom out, correct?
18:21.19Juesto"roam zoom out"
18:21.25JuestoAh thanks blast007
18:21.38JuestoPowerful atom
18:21.45Juestobecause the ones i know are 1ghz craps
18:21.48Juesto1.6ghz*
18:21.56JuestoDid the atom brand officially died_
18:23.37JeffMthey are all low power low cache CPUs intedned for netbooks
18:23.58Juestothanks for the reminder..
18:24.08JeffMis it a laptop?
18:24.15JuestoHP Pavilon x360
18:24.21Juesto2-in-1 laptop
18:24.37JeffMcheap little thing
18:25.02JuestoI hope we can avoid future "deja vus" JeffM
18:25.45JeffMprobably not, you are not the only conversation I have :)
18:26.02JuestoOuch
18:26.26JeffMthere is work, there is a winding down discussion about messaging protocolls and network APIs.
18:26.44JeffMand quite soon, lunch
18:26.51Juestoso, ##networking and physical interaction.
18:27.14JuestoHave a good lunch by the way
18:27.28JeffMno, talk in the channel for the new project
18:27.35JuestoOh
18:27.47Juestoit is public yet?
18:27.56JeffMnope
18:28.02Juestoi mean, i am somewhat outdated.
18:28.18JuestoHm, what is the bind to zoom out in roam?
18:28.36Juestobecause i accidentally replaced and then unbinded
18:29.43Juestooh, it has a down too
18:31.30JuestoWhat about Tim? doesnt irc either?
18:42.06*** join/#bzflag Void7 (~Void7@205.157.147.198)
18:46.09JuestoWhoa, the game froze again
19:12.25JuestoFog is no good for my card
19:12.35Juestoaa bridge crossing lags
19:13.36Juestowho is Gicu?
19:21.49KaadmYJuesto: you can use faster fog
19:21.53KaadmYin the effect options
19:22.03KaadmYthere's two fog options, one is supposed to be a bit faster
19:22.17KaadmYand fog would actually probably make rendering faster
19:22.29JeffMdepends how the card implements it
19:22.41KaadmYit shouldn't make it much slower though
19:22.55KaadmYthe bridge crossing map is really slow
19:22.58KaadmYentirely meshes
19:23.46JeffMdepends if the card doesn't implment it or not. If it can't be done on the chipset, it gets sent back to the CPU
19:23.53JeffMand that slows everything down
19:29.38*** part/#bzflag echelon (~echelon@bzflag/player/echelon)
19:44.35JuestoA*A Bridge Crossing has  heavy fog
19:44.48Juestoand i get some weird white to black flickers
19:45.11Juestoand the forest nooradar server... goes well
19:49.29KaadmYA*A bridge crossing and the misty forest server are both bad examples of fog, because they're both kind-of set apart from other servers
19:49.53JuestoI remember back then... perfomance was abysimal
19:49.54KaadmYthey both don't have radar(no performance difference), and they're both huge and make of meshes(large performance problems)
19:50.33Juestothe no radar is just a particular fact,  i didnt say it haves an impact
19:51.29KaadmYi know
19:51.35KaadmYbut they're both bad examples of fog
19:51.42KaadmYthey're both huge maps made of mesh geometry
19:51.44JuestoCould it be optimized?
19:51.48KaadmYnot really
19:51.58KaadmYboth are outdoors, so  you can't do occlusion culling
19:52.00JuestoMofo maps are another example of mesh usage
19:52.05KaadmYand transparency is also really slow
19:52.07KaadmYyes
19:52.10Juestoheavy mesh usage
19:52.11KaadmYand you have problems on mofo :)
19:52.21Juestoperfomance problems
19:52.24Juestobut its not that bad
19:52.33Juestoif it was made of boxes... i would have better fps
19:52.52KaadmYanother problem with mofo is it uses translucency
19:52.59KaadmYwhich is very, very slow in opengl
19:53.03JuestoOh dear
19:53.14Juestowell at least computers are fast enough for that ogl version
19:53.18KaadmYdisabling blending will probably make fps go way up
19:53.35Juestodoesnt affect alpha?
19:53.50KaadmYit'll still handle translucency
19:54.01KaadmYbut it instead renders every other pixel if it's translucent
19:54.57Juestoic
19:59.28JuestoKaadmY: curious, you play often?
20:03.05KaadmYJuesto: sometimes
20:03.10KaadmYmaking mods for quake right now :)
20:03.59Juestoq3 i guess?
20:04.01JuestoInteresting
20:04.21JuestoAnyone else does besides ale and themap?
20:04.50KaadmYno
20:04.52KaadmYq1
20:05.29KaadmYanyone else besides ale and map play what often?
20:05.32KaadmYbzflag i guess?
20:14.15JuestoYea
20:14.22KaadmYwell
20:14.24Juestowow, cool, people still play q1?
20:14.31KaadmYi'm guessing everyone on this channel plays bzflag at least sometimes
20:14.39KaadmYJuesto: no idea
20:14.40KaadmYi do at least
20:14.55KaadmYq2 has about the same amount of players right now as bzflag
20:15.00KaadmYq2 multiplayer at least
20:15.15KaadmYq1 usually has around 2-4 players, mostly on 1v1 servers
20:15.27JuestoMaybe more
20:15.37Juestoi remember tastyspleen being filled
20:15.41KaadmYhmm
20:15.46KaadmYcan play q1 if you want
20:15.58Juestonah, thank you, dont have it
20:16.11KaadmYok
20:16.33KaadmYgoes off to play bzflag
20:16.48KaadmYincoming :)
20:16.50KaadmYlove that map
20:17.17Juestoyeeah the ctf one
20:17.43Juestoim zz btw and at the original 4 ctf KaadmY
20:17.54KaadmYok
20:23.00KaadmY.. why does the "incoming" server have 2 blue flags...
20:23.18alezakosbecause the mapmaker used the +f B*{2} command
20:23.52KaadmY.. i know you can do that
20:23.53KaadmYbut why
20:24.17alezakosbecause the mapmaker wanted 2 blue flags :P
20:24.37JuestoWTF
20:24.38KaadmY...
20:24.44Juestowhat server
20:24.48KaadmY*family friendly*
20:25.06Juestois that even possible? ctf with more than one flag?
20:25.11JuestoNever seen a server like that
20:25.49KaadmYyes
20:25.52KaadmYpossible but nobody uses it
20:25.58KaadmY*almost nobody
20:26.04Juestowhich server
20:26.28KaadmY"incoming"
20:26.34KaadmY3 playes
20:26.36KaadmYplayers*
20:26.38KaadmYi'm leaving
20:26.47KaadmYgoes to missile wars
20:26.47Juestook
20:26.47KaadmY'
20:27.01Juestoim there :D
21:16.08*** join/#bzflag BZnotify (~BZnotify@192.30.252.45)
21:16.08BZnotify[13bzflag] 15kongr45gpen pushed 1 new commit to 062.4: 02https://git.io/v6JUt
21:16.08BZnotify13bzflag/062.4 148360616 15kongr45gpen: Increase the range of the volume slider
21:16.08*** part/#bzflag BZnotify (~BZnotify@192.30.252.45)
21:16.52Juestoi guess a commit didnt happen in a very long time
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21:19.19blast007why do you guess that?
21:19.26KaadmYalezakos: does it go to 11 now? :P
21:19.35Juestobecause i am not sure
21:20.51alezakosKaadmY: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/Spinal_Tap_-_Up_to_Eleven.jpg
21:21.02KaadmYalezakos: that's why
21:21.25alezakosbut no, it's still 1-10, but it's a more natural progression from 1 to 10 :)
21:23.40KaadmYah
21:23.42KaadmYmore steps?
21:23.47alezakosno, still 10
21:28.02macsformewe need to bump the version if we're going to be committing stuff to 2.4
21:28.48JuestoThere should be more stuff to push before a release
21:29.22Juestoperhaps bringing back a way to see tank label in gameplay like it used to?
21:29.41JeffMpatches welcome
21:30.06JeffMI guess they would be pull requests now wouldn't they?
21:30.21Juestosure
21:30.42Juestoi dont even have the source right now and i dont know what to modify
21:30.48Juestobecause i dont know to code
21:30.50macsformethat's a potential advantage for newer clients, so that probably wouldn't be accepted into the current maintenance branch
21:30.53blast007Juesto: it wasn't ever possible on purpose.  I can only recall a bug that made it possible.
21:30.53Juestodespite knowing some basics
21:31.06blast007so no, not gonna happen
21:31.11JuestoOh...
21:31.11JeffMlike I said, it was by design
21:31.13Juestonvm
21:31.26JeffMnot good design, but still design :)
21:31.57JuestoI had experienced some odd white-to-black texture flickers
21:32.06JeffMget a better video card
21:32.06Juestoparticularly with textures disable
21:32.09Juestodisabled*
21:32.16JuestoMany have intel...
21:32.29JeffMand....
21:32.41JeffMnot all cards are good at games
21:32.43JuestoWhats the minimium bzf runs on?
21:32.48JeffMnot all cards are GL compliant
21:33.01JeffMan openGL 1.2 compliant card
21:33.27JuestoIt is compliant...
21:33.39JeffMclearly not, if it can't draw the sceene
21:33.39Juestohell, its PS 3.0 or whatever
21:33.44JuestoIt can....
21:33.47Juestojust glitches
21:33.49JeffMdoesn't mean it implmentes everything correctly
21:33.56JeffMif it was correct it would not glitch
21:34.16Juestohow do i query the card support
21:34.24JeffMgeneraly you don't
21:34.26Juestoglxinfo equivalent
21:34.40JeffMfor games I'd recomend some form of nvidia card
21:34.47JuestoPerhaps capability issue
21:34.47blast007just because the card/driver says it can do stuff doesn't mean it does it right
21:34.54Juesto....
21:35.01JeffMit's probalby a driver bug
21:35.19Juestoits a fair card...
21:35.19blast007but really, that laptop you have it not designed to do much more than basic web browsing
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21:35.27JuestoI know
21:35.33JeffMno it's not, it's onboard bare minium to get the OS working video
21:35.35blast007it's an Atom, it's not fast
21:35.35Juestobut  even at web browsing it sucks
21:35.43Juestoit is fast, 2ghz or so
21:35.56JeffMthat's not the same 2ghz as an i3
21:35.56Juestoruns aero
21:36.01JuestoWant to know WEI score?
21:36.06JeffMyeah in software
21:36.17blast007right, my similar Atom system that fits in my pocket (and has quad-cores) can barely do youtube
21:36.24JeffMthere isn't realy anything that can be done in code to fix driver bugs.
21:36.30Juesto1,6ghz atoms are worse
21:36.41JuestoI just want to know why it happens
21:36.57Juestoi dont really care for having it fixed
21:37.04blast007are you running the latest graphics driver?  are you using BZFlag 2.4.6?
21:37.07JeffMthen learn how video driers work
21:37.20JeffMand learn legacy GL commands
21:37.20KaadmYhmm
21:37.23blast007I tried the bzadmin shortcut on 2.4.6 with Windows 7, and it worked fine
21:37.24Juestoyes blast007, hell, updates are forced
21:37.32JeffMthen you'll find that your card sometimes messes up it's z buffer.
21:37.32KaadmYi have a dryer but no video drier
21:37.39Juestowin7 != win10
21:37.48blast007yeah, Windows 7 is far better
21:37.54JuestoA lot of crap changed in 8
21:38.00Juestoand... perhaps its related
21:38.03JeffMnot really for the intel checkpset
21:38.04Juestoconhost changed in windows 10
21:38.20Juestoparticularly it has some new extensions or something
21:38.28Juestoan enhanced mode
21:38.34JeffMextensions? are you running mac os 7?
21:39.05Juestoweird is that it only fails when you run bzadmin via double click/start, it doesnt fail when i run it directly on a cmd
21:40.19blast007https://downloadcenter.intel.com shows Windows 10 drivers
21:40.21JeffMprobabaly init ordering problems in the terminal windows
21:41.35alezakosI have another commit waiting to be pushed
21:41.52Juestohttp://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=507549 "Find out about _new console features_"
21:42.06Juestoin properties, first tab
21:42.12macsformealezakos: I'm working on the version bump, unless you already have it done
21:42.25alezakosI don't
21:43.04Juestois curious
21:46.55Juestoso its going to be unlikely that the graphics engine gets upgraded
21:46.59Juestoat least version-wise
21:47.17JuestoCould fix glitches with some cards
21:49.06macsformeJuesto: as has been said several times, we're working on a replacement project... we can fix a lot of things in that effort
21:49.24JuestoWhy i still didnt hear anything?
21:49.39xdotoolpay attention
21:49.43Juestoi mean... its news and.. /non-public/
21:51.26JeffMit's brand new
21:51.34JeffMstill in the planing phases
21:51.42JeffMstill just discussing WHAT it should be
21:51.51JuestoSo it doesnt even exist.
21:51.53JeffMprojects don't just spring into being
21:51.59JeffMeverything starts as nothing :)
21:52.27JuestoOf course.
21:52.37JuestoDepends on the project kind actually
21:52.42Juestomileage varies
21:53.34blast007you're just saying words without meaning now
22:03.32JuestoAlpine assault is a good example of complex meshing
22:03.34Juestowith good fps
22:03.36Juestoor whatever
22:03.46Juestobig area with good fps
22:06.04blast007do you have rain turned on?  because on A*A Bridge Crossing, my FPS jumped from 260 to 1050 when I turned rain off
22:07.18Juestominimal rain
22:07.36JuestoAnd i still had abysimal fps with rain off
22:07.38JuestoBack then
22:07.43Juestodidnt try now
22:18.23JuestoApparently sometimes my connection doesnt UDP
22:18.31Juestomost of the time it does anyway
22:19.35blast007you might have crap wifi on that system too
22:19.47JuestoSure
22:19.58Juestoso?
22:20.05Juestoi dont fully care honestly
22:24.06macsformeyou might care if it's preventing you from playing the way you want to :)
22:25.13*** part/#bzflag Juesto (juest@unaffiliated/juest)
22:27.26blast007I've had some absolutely terrible wifi on some cheap HPs.  One came with a card with two antenna sockets but only had a single antenna wire, and the other had a card with a single antenna socket, but had two antenna wires (so one not being used).  :P
22:28.12blast007And I had to tweak some setting (turning off some 'performance' mode) to actually get it to perform better than a few mbps.
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22:35.40BZnotify[13bzflag] 15macsforme pushed 1 new commit to 062.4: 02https://git.io/v6JsI
22:35.41BZnotify13bzflag/062.4 14d6cbb2e 15Joshua Bodine: Bumped version to 2.4.7.
22:35.41*** part/#bzflag BZnotify (~BZnotify@192.30.252.40)
22:36.58macsformeblast007: can you check package/win32/nsis/BZFlag.nsi? I changed three lines and git diff shows ^M characters at the end of them... I think it's because of the line endings but I'm not sure if it's right or wrong now
22:37.18macsformeand maybe allejo can fix the title image?
22:42.55*** join/#bzflag Juesto (juest@unaffiliated/juest)
22:43.20JuestoBZAdmin being unable to run when clicking the shortcut is indeed a issue with the new conhost
22:43.32Juestousing old conhost does work properly
22:43.52JuestoPlease add a note in bzadmin for win10 users
22:44.14*** part/#bzflag Juesto (juest@unaffiliated/juest)
22:44.16blast007maybe Microsoft should stop breaking stuf
22:45.03JeffMmaybe curl will work better in bash
22:45.54blast007;D
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22:52.49BZnotify[13bzflag] 15allejo pushed 1 new commit to 062.4: 02https://git.io/v6JZK
22:52.49BZnotify13bzflag/062.4 143a6bb13 15allejo: Version bump banner
22:52.49*** part/#bzflag BZnotify (~BZnotify@192.30.252.40)
22:54.51allejomacsforme, no can do :)
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