IRC log for #bzflag on 20160701

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02:45.36KaadmYand btw https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/gm1xbxaV/tank_2k.png
02:45.49KaadmYdoing some models for a tank game i'm trying to work on
03:02.37the_mapthat's a cute little tank
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03:19.24KaadmYyep the_map :)
03:19.41KaadmYabout 2k tris(1994 tris to be exact)
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16:39.08JeffMI may have done something stupid blast007
16:39.18JeffMI didn't order a GTX1080
16:40.04blast007did you order something else instead?  or do you mean there's all out of stock now?
16:40.12blast007they're*
16:40.15JeffMan RX480
16:41.00JeffMit was only $240
16:41.38blast007I was probably more stupid by buying a 980 Ti a couple months before the GTX1080 was released
16:41.46JeffMouch
16:42.07blast007iirc, that was like $700
16:42.24JeffMsame price as the 1080 founders edition
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16:43.04JeffMand yeah no stock on the 1080's made me look at the AMD card
16:43.15blast007mine is a fancy overclocking one though, so there's a little extra headroom on mine, maybe
16:43.55JeffMwell I was looking at the ASUS "Styrix" OC 1080, it was $650 or something
16:44.02blast007still need to find a stable overclock for my CPU.  hoping to get it to at least 4GHz.
16:44.10JeffMthe founders editions are the most expensive cards because of the fancy cooler
16:45.03JeffMit's just been a VERY long time since I've actualy paid money for an ATI/AMD card
16:45.04blast007got an i7-5930K, 6-core 3.5GHz base clock
16:45.08JeffMnice
16:45.20blast007and water cooled
16:45.53JeffMdoes it have colored lights?
16:46.05blast007the GPU does
16:46.17JeffMcan you see them outside the case?
16:46.19blast007and my keyboard and mouse
16:46.22blast007yeah
16:46.25JeffMooo fancy
16:46.45blast007clear side panel, and the lights are on the top edge of the card (and around the fans, but you don't see those from the side)
16:47.06JeffMhow many thousands of FPS does it get in bzflag? :)
16:47.22JeffMdo you hit the frame cap?
16:47.31blast007doesn't actually do as well as I thought, though I might have been running at 1440p
16:47.47blast007I probably also wasn't running my usual benching of a random map ;)
16:47.52blast007benchmark*
16:48.08JeffMI also ordered 2 more 28 inch displays, going for a tripple wide
16:48.20JeffMthey are down to like 130$
16:48.28blast007I have 3 x 27", but I didn't like triple display
16:48.35blast007was a pain to configure for nVidia, at least
16:48.52JeffMthats one reason I was willing to try AMD, suposedly they do a better job of it
16:49.01JeffMtrying to set up elite dangerous in that config
16:49.13blast007(and these are 1440p with G-Sync, so nVidia specific screens)
16:49.19JeffMmy current card does NOT like more than 2 displays hooked up, but it's one of those SLI on one card deals
16:49.23JeffMahh
16:49.27blast007144hz refresh rate is nice
16:50.27JeffMyeah it would be
16:50.49blast007I screwed up on returning the other two screens though.  Didn't realize that the return policy was only 15 days.  Soo... yeah...
16:52.50JeffMand now you have a pile of monitors
16:52.58blast007some of the USB 3.0 ports on my board might be a bit janky.  think there's three different chipsets for them, intel, via, and something else.
16:53.02blast007yup :)
16:53.07JeffMtime to hook up multi-display for the bzflag
16:53.26JeffMit would actualy not be that hard, just fire off a few more displays
16:53.30JeffMwindows I mean
16:53.50blast007radar on the left, chat on the right, my exploding tank in the middle
16:53.52JeffMand move the camera transform into the display class
16:54.16JeffMnaw, full view over all 3 displays, each with a different camera offset :)
16:54.56JeffMit's much easier for cards to deal with it if you build a context per display rather then asking the driver to create one super wide context
16:55.18JeffMthen you can set view angles based on the display's physical angle
16:55.28JeffMI did it in a test app once, it looked super cool
16:58.01blast007I'm interested in trying this engine out: http://urho3d.github.io/
16:58.35blast007sounds like it already has an authoritative server and the client just sends input state/events
16:58.56Void7i'm sort-of familiar with that engine
16:58.57JeffMnice
16:59.49blast007Void7: what's your opinion of it?
17:00.07Void7I haven't found a way to disable high effects yet :P
17:01.43Void7but pretty good
17:01.57JeffMhow's it's GUI system?
17:02.22Void7never used it
17:02.55blast007supports the mouse, so already better :P
17:03.23blast007hmm, dunno if it supports keyboard though
17:03.26Void7um.. might want to update the topic? "2.4.4 released!"
17:03.30Void7:P
17:03.47*** mode/#bzflag [+o blast007] by ChanServ
17:05.02*** topic/#bzflag by blast007 -> http://BZFlag.org || http://ohloh.net/p/bzflag || https://wiki.bzflag.org/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://infobot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || 2.4.6 released! https://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=19241
17:05.06*** mode/#bzflag [-o blast007] by blast007
17:06.01JeffMI was thinking of how it defines UI elments :)
17:07.55blast007they support images, buttons, checkboxes, drop down list, single line text editor, a list view, menus, scrolling views, slider, static multiline text, tooltips, and movable windows
17:09.11blast007and assuming I can dynamically build a dialog window, that should be enough
17:09.16JeffMthat's all good, do they have a layout system that can deal with differetn sizes? like can you define screen relative postions?
17:09.40blast007"A grid layout is not directly supported, but it can be manually created with a horizontal layout inside a vertical layout, or vice versa."
17:09.49JeffMok
17:09.55JeffMso basic justification
17:10.02JeffMthat's enough to get started
17:10.12blast007"By default UI elements operate in a "free" layout mode, where child elements' positions can be specified relative to any of the parent element corners, but they are not automatically positioned or resized."
17:10.30blast007they have a horizontal and vertical layout mode as well
17:10.31JeffMdefault pixel space then
17:10.58JeffMyou just don't want to have to write your own layout system :)
17:11.43blast007like we do every time we make a new menu in BZFlag?  :P
17:11.48JeffMyeah
17:11.57JeffMbut also remember that same system will be used for the HUD
17:12.01JeffMso it's not just menus
17:12.07JeffMit's radar, score list, all that
17:12.48JeffMand, are you going to target VR? if so then you'll probably have to draw all UI in world space
17:13.15JeffMif they don't have the concept of a projected canvas for the GUI they do
17:13.32JeffMjust something to think about when you are laying stuff out
17:13.55blast007VR support seems unfair in a game like BZFlag
17:14.01JeffMpossibly
17:14.51JeffMunless you draw the inside of the tank behind you
17:15.00blast007heh
17:15.08JeffMmake the inside of the tank be larger than the outside :)
17:15.21blast007hehehehe
17:16.10blast007I think VR with BZ would be a vom generator
17:16.36blast007lots of quick and sudden movements
17:16.38JeffMthe tank platform is rotationaly stable, so it may actualy be not bad
17:16.47JeffMbut they are all in plane
17:16.50JeffMso not too bad
17:17.03JeffMit's the quick rotations up and down that get people
17:17.18blast007have you not watched someone like orbit play?
17:17.33JeffMwell the tank CAN'T rotate up and down
17:17.38JeffMthat's what I mean
17:17.42blast007it's kinda the same jittering motion that the autopilot code gets into
17:17.47JeffMahh
17:17.56blast007tiny mouse box and high mouse sensitivity
17:18.06JeffMwell you won't be able to see your hands, sou mousebox won't work in VR
17:18.12JeffMI'd expect joysticks
17:18.36JeffMyou'd not want to have to focus on a cursor that's always in front of your eyes :)
17:19.03JeffMVR for romaing observers could be interesting
17:19.14JeffMwalk around like godzilla
17:19.20blast007there was some horrid game on the Occulus store that didn't do VR right at all
17:19.23DTRemenakyou could draw the mousebox as part of the scene without too much trouble
17:19.32DTRemenakcursor and all
17:19.43blast007it was like the whole cart you were in moved up and down when you looked up an down
17:19.46JeffMyou'd have to, it's your targeting sight :)
17:19.49DTRemenakyou're in a tank after all
17:20.16JeffMyeah tanks are traditionaly driven with mice
17:20.26DTRemenakthe ones with jumpjets are ;)
17:20.36JeffMblast007: yeah movement along the view is not cool
17:21.41blast007some of the walking around VR games really make me sick feeling too
17:21.54blast007the ones where you walk with the joystick
17:25.43blast007then I was hoping to play Alien Isolation with the rift, but seems it doesn't work with the CV1.  So I bought some other program that's supposed to make several games with with VR, but all it did so far was display in the Oculus, but wasn't doing any head tracking.
17:26.35blast007The Solus Project was one where I was getting sick walking around
17:38.59JeffMwell blast007 you'll like that engine, it has zero dependencies on windows :)
17:40.35blast007meaning it bundles all the ones it needs?  :)
17:41.00JeffMyeah, because they are somewhat esoteric
17:41.19JeffMit just needs directX, and if you use VC12 or later it's bundled with the compiler
17:41.36JeffMyeah, it has a third party folder in src
17:41.43JeffMbuilds pretty easy tho
17:41.48JeffMuses cmake
17:41.54JeffMand it actualy worked
17:42.35blast007might make things complicated if we want to get packaged on linux distributions
17:42.46blast007s/might/will most certainly/
17:43.14JeffMdoes the engine itself exist as a package in those systems?
17:43.50JeffMif so, then you don't make it part of your source tree at all
17:43.53blast007not on Debian
17:43.56JeffMjust assume all devs have it
17:44.45JeffMI htink you are going to have this problem with any modern engine, nobody wants to write there own GLEW imlementation
17:44.47blast007does seem to be on Arch linux's user repository section
17:45.45blast007yeah, newest I was seeing packaged on Debian was ioquake3 (id tech 3), plus orge and irrlicht (which I can *never* remember how to spell)
17:45.55blast007didn't even see crystal space
17:46.30JeffMbecause it's dependency hell on every platform for CS :)
17:47.05blast007:)
17:47.32blast007"screw it, we'll just use Snaps!"
17:49.12JeffMor systemd, acording to slashdot it has all possible software in it, there must be a 3d engine in there somewhere
17:50.41blast007sudo systemctl start urho3d.service
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18:08.41JeffMit's got a vehicle demo, slap a gun on it and ship it!
18:27.19blast007heh
18:28.51blast007"Urho3D does not implement built-in client-side prediction for player controllable objects due to the difficulty of rewinding and resimulating a generic physics simulation."
18:29.20blast007not exactly sure what that would mean
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19:18.23RoscoePColtraneprediction is only as good as your model
19:18.40RoscoePColtraneif the model is wrong (incorrect assumption), the predictions have to be recalculated
19:18.49RoscoePColtranethey don't want to do that
19:19.13RoscoePColtraneplayer controls are inherently random, so prediction is impossible
19:19.20RoscoePColtrane(in a mathematical sense)
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19:45.03JeffMblast007, basicly they can't rewind the physics engine so they can't do the valve thing.
19:45.10JeffMahh he quit
19:45.13JeffMor split
19:45.43KaadmYSPLITQUIT
19:45.45KaadmYYEAAAAAAAAA
19:47.43JeffMRoscoePColtrane: other games keep state history to solve that problem, but that engine uses bullet and they probalby can't feasably store the entire physics state history for each player
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19:49.09JeffMit's proobably just too much data
19:49.43JeffMI do wonder how they sync the physics systems
19:50.13JeffMor if they just leave the client's playing lagged versions of the server state
19:52.03macsformeI saw in tupone's crystal space experiment he had planned to use the ODE physics engine... I read up on it a little bit... I wonder how it measures up to other options
19:53.57JeffMODE is pretty solid from what I've read
19:54.02JeffMbut then so is bullet
19:56.29macsformesolid... :P
19:56.38JeffMhttp://blog.wolfire.com/2010/03/Comparing-ODE-and-Bullet
19:56.48JeffMthat's a decent comparison
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22:07.40SunSparc~ie--
22:07.51KaadmY~ie--
22:07.54KaadmY~lart
22:07.57SunSparc:)
22:08.05KaadmY~lart SunSparc
22:08.05infobotpulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps SunSparc
22:08.21KaadmYlart=luser attitude readjustment tool
22:08.27SunSparc~piglatin KaadmY
22:08.29KaadmYluser=luser(spelled that way)
22:08.38KaadmY~piglatin YOu're dumb, SunSparc!
22:08.43KaadmY~piglatin You're dumb, SunSparc!
22:08.55JeffMyou can play with the bot with /msg you know
22:08.57SunSparc~rlart
22:08.57infobotaccelerates a free AOL cd to 50,000 rpm and lets Cobra_Fast_ feel it
22:09.08Cobra_Fast_thanks!
22:09.40KaadmY~rlart
22:09.40infobotbreaks out the Hoover and sucks up ruskie
22:09.54KaadmYrlart=random lart?
22:09.58SunSparcyes
22:10.01*** mode/#bzflag [+o blast007] by ChanServ
22:10.10blast007as mentioned, you can play with the bot in /msg
22:10.10JeffMI tried to warn you kids
22:10.15KaadmY:[
22:10.26JeffMnot everybody wants to see highlight spam
22:10.38Cobra_Fasthooray highlight spam \o/
22:10.42SunSparcIn other words, we should stop playing with the bot in the channel. :)
22:10.57SunSparc~ie--
22:11.07SunSparc~karma ie
22:11.07infobotie has karma of -782
22:11.09JeffMhey... they can learn
22:11.25blast007or not
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