| 00:00.02 | blast007 | I don't know if they get loaded on demand though, they might |
| 00:00.21 | KaadmY | hmm |
| 00:00.26 | KaadmY | dunno then |
| 00:00.37 | KaadmY | the sprite billboarding is noticeable though |
| 00:00.42 | KaadmY | seems a little strange |
| 00:00.43 | blast007 | but there's the fonts, which are a texture, the ground, the boxes, pyramids, teleporters, outside wall, clouds, and like 8 mountain textures |
| 00:01.22 | blast007 | guess only 5 mountain textures |
| 00:01.28 | KaadmY | why 5? |
| 00:01.29 | blast007 | but there's the moon too |
| 00:01.31 | KaadmY | isn't it 4? |
| 00:01.43 | blast007 | there is mountain1.png through 5 |
| 00:02.26 | blast007 | and there's actually two textures for a teleporter - the border, and the link surface |
| 00:02.37 | KaadmY | ikr |
| 00:03.02 | blast007 | and base textures, and the flag texture |
| 00:03.24 | KaadmY | so ~30 textures together? |
| 00:03.30 | blast007 | so in summary, at least 2 or 3 textures |
| 00:04.13 | blast007 | there's 82 PNGs, plus fonts |
| 00:08.55 | KaadmY | so in short, lots |
| 00:18.39 | blast007 | by 1995 standards, maybe... but 2016 standards, no :P |
| 01:07.16 | *** join/#bzflag Void7 (~Void7@205.157.147.198) |
| 01:14.32 | JeffM | KaadmY: what texture modes did you pick? |
| 01:14.58 | JeffM | and bzflag can be extended to use higher res textures, texture manager just has a limit IIRC, it resamples. |
| 01:16.23 | JeffM | if it's still set to 1024, that'd be silly ;) |
| 01:18.36 | blast007 | what happens if you try to load a texture that's higher resolution than what the GPU supports? |
| 01:19.04 | JeffM | well realy texture manager should ASK the GL implementation what the biggest pixmap it can load is |
| 01:19.16 | JeffM | that's why it's set to the bare bones minium |
| 01:19.41 | JeffM | TM already has scaling code, so just make sure it gets the limit set right, include the highest possible textures, and let it mipmap them down |
| 01:19.51 | JeffM | or do manual mipmaps if you want |
| 01:20.13 | blast007 | looking at this, 1024 does seem a bit silly: http://feedback.wildfiregames.com/report/opengl/feature/GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE |
| 01:20.47 | JeffM | yeah 4k should get damn near everyone you care about |
| 01:21.00 | JeffM | let them override it in a config for the few that need it smaller |
| 01:21.32 | JeffM | IIRC 4k is even supported in SOFTWARE these days |
| 01:21.53 | blast007 | I do recall hitting the memory limit on that old mac mini in 2.99.x at 1920x1200 due to the higher resolution FTGL font generation |
| 01:22.14 | JeffM | FTLG was a bit pixmap happy |
| 01:22.35 | JeffM | and yeah I think that had a 64meg vbuffer |
| 01:22.49 | JeffM | I think I have another one of those around here somewhere |
| 01:23.00 | JeffM | we were throwing them away at work |
| 01:23.15 | JeffM | has wayyyy to many computers now |
| 01:23.38 | blast007 | glances behind himself at the pile .... |
| 01:23.42 | blast007 | nah, still need more |
| 01:24.04 | blast007 | found a minidisc player at work last week |
| 01:24.51 | blast007 | that will stack nicely on top of a laserdisc player, if they'll ever part with one :P |
| 01:27.07 | JeffM | our founder retired and gave away all his laser disks, guy at work took them and ripped them all |
| 01:27.19 | JeffM | now he's got an unmolested version of starwars on his plex server |
| 01:27.30 | blast007 | that's why I want one too ;) |
| 01:27.42 | blast007 | except, I'd play it from the original media |
| 01:28.15 | JeffM | he got an industrial unit, had it pause on each frame and scan both interlace passes to turn it into a de-interlaced video for modern TVs |
| 01:28.18 | blast007 | I'd have to find some of those interactive ones too so I could use the barcode scanner it has |
| 01:29.15 | JeffM | have to see what is on the junk shelves at work now before they clear them off. We arn't going to maintain our own hardware anymore so they are getting rid of all the old stuff. |
| 01:29.42 | JeffM | so say our new corporate masters |
| 01:30.22 | blast007 | welcome to the cloud, enjoy your stay, we'll take good care of your bits |
| 01:30.33 | JeffM | no, they like to host there own stuff |
| 01:30.44 | JeffM | but we just won't be building our own systems, we'll be buying from HP |
| 01:30.51 | JeffM | better standardization |
| 01:30.57 | blast007 | ah, well that's not so bad then |
| 01:31.09 | JeffM | yeah, we are just used to being able to swap drives and stuff when needed |
| 01:31.27 | JeffM | our enterprise services division maintains 2 datacenters |
| 01:31.41 | JeffM | it's odd to have other groups to do stuff for us now |
| 01:32.03 | blast007 | well don't worry, it's not like HP charges a premium for their drives |
| 01:32.20 | JeffM | it's out of my hands now, so I care a lot less |
| 01:32.26 | blast007 | :) |
| 01:33.05 | blast007 | using mostly HP gear at my work (few servers and a SAN) |
| 01:33.36 | blast007 | old Gen6 stuff though for our main workload |
| 01:33.48 | JeffM | I'll be curious to see how long we use them once they start competing with our main biz |
| 01:35.26 | blast007 | my biggest complaint about HP is mostly directed at their website.. it can be a challenge to find stuff on there a lot of the time |
| 01:37.32 | JeffM | heh, newegg will sell me a video card, but only if I spend an extra 400$ on a power supply I don't need |
| 02:06.17 | KaadmY | JeffM: late, but i use LINEAR_MIPMAP_LINEAR iirc |
| 02:13.21 | JeffM | probably the best you'll get then |
| 02:13.40 | JeffM | what card do you have? |
| 02:43.05 | blast007 | Intel GS965 paired up with a 1.2GHz low-voltage Core 2 Duo, unless it's a different system |
| 02:44.30 | JeffM | ewwwwwwwwww |
| 02:45.49 | JeffM | yeah I don't belive that has the best filters :) |
| 02:49.40 | blast007 | my 855 can go all the way up to 2x aniso! |
| 02:52.59 | blast007 | looks like that one is limited to 2 as well with the Windows drivers |
| 02:53.51 | blast007 | showing 16x for linux though |
| 02:58.43 | JeffM | at 5 frames per hour? |
| 02:59.03 | JeffM | mesa can do anything in software |
| 03:04.30 | *** join/#bzflag Void7 (~Void7@205.157.147.198) |
| 03:11.15 | blast007 | hehe |
| 03:12.20 | blast007 | my Atom based pocked sized PC *did* run BZFlag faster |
| 03:16.38 | KaadmY | blast007: aniso goes to 16x |
| 03:18.16 | KaadmY | but fps goes down the drain at 16x |
| 03:18.28 | blast007 | so what JeffM said then :) |
| 03:18.40 | KaadmY | lemme test |
| 03:18.42 | JeffM | because that's going to be done on the CPU |
| 03:18.52 | blast007 | sounds like the hardware can only do 2x, and mesa is faking the rest in software |
| 03:19.12 | JeffM | it's going to trounce your memory bus |
| 03:20.37 | KaadmY | huh |
| 03:21.03 | KaadmY | wait wtf |
| 03:21.13 | KaadmY | i took 2 screenshots; aniso off and 16x |
| 03:21.20 | blast007 | "mine goes to 11" |
| 03:21.37 | KaadmY | one image is completely black, the other has about 40 pixels on top not black |
| 03:21.58 | JeffM | welcome to non compliant GL implementatioins |
| 03:22.08 | JeffM | get a real card |
| 03:22.14 | KaadmY | screenshots worked earlier..? |
| 03:22.25 | blast007 | maybe it's the grass |
| 03:22.26 | KaadmY | yay |
| 03:22.27 | blast007 | ;) |
| 03:22.33 | KaadmY | 15mb drive space free! |
| 03:22.39 | blast007 | or that |
| 03:22.39 | KaadmY | (this really sucks) |
| 03:22.40 | blast007 | could be that |
| 03:22.46 | KaadmY | nope |
| 03:22.54 | KaadmY | stock bzflag, no changes |
| 03:23.05 | blast007 | "that" as in the drive space |
| 03:24.40 | KaadmY | wow |
| 03:24.49 | KaadmY | removed zandronum 3.0 |
| 03:24.57 | KaadmY | now have 148mb free! O_. |
| 03:25.10 | KaadmY | 1.9gb.. |
| 03:26.02 | blast007 | by default, ext3/4 (and probably 2) reserves 5% of the drive for root |
| 03:26.27 | KaadmY | yes |
| 03:26.38 | KaadmY | a couple gig extra atm |
| 03:28.11 | KaadmY | yay 2.4gb free |
| 03:28.35 | KaadmY | tfw you have to reinstall games every other game to keep your drive usable |
| 03:28.49 | blast007 | how big is the drive? |
| 03:29.54 | KaadmY | 128gb iirc |
| 03:30.25 | blast007 | df -h |
| 03:30.49 | JeffM | newegg -buy 512gb_ssd |
| 03:34.40 | JeffM | wow 240's have come way down |
| 03:41.02 | *** join/#bzflag BZnotify (~BZnotify@192.30.252.40) |
| 03:41.02 | BZnotify | [13bzflag] 15kaadmy opened pull request #54: Add 3D Grass (062.4...062.4) 02https://git.io/vo54g |
| 03:41.02 | *** part/#bzflag BZnotify (~BZnotify@192.30.252.40) |
| 03:41.22 | KaadmY | ^ i'm not expecting it to get merged anyway |
| 03:41.48 | KaadmY | but i'd appreciate if someone'd check it |
| 03:47.23 | JeffM | do you use the grass3D bzdb variable as anyting other than like a bool? |
| 04:32.47 | *** join/#bzflag zuii (~cauchy@BC06BF93.catv.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 04:49.33 | KaadmY | JeffM: it's used as a slider |
| 04:49.42 | KaadmY | off, then 1-10 |
| 04:50.16 | KaadmY | still not very sure how the entire bzdb system works |
| 04:50.29 | KaadmY | 's head is glued to the pillow |
| 05:06.47 | the_map | that's got to be inconvenient |
| 05:57.00 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (~a_meteori@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 07:20.03 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (~Michael@c-73-149-20-29.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 08:03.15 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (~Michael@c-73-149-20-29.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 08:31.39 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (~Michael@c-73-149-20-29.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 14:26.55 | *** join/#bzflag Void7 (~Void7@205.157.147.198) |
| 14:31.01 | *** join/#bzflag KaadmY (uid135503@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fmpjbwouluxpnecu) |
| 15:35.42 | *** join/#bzflag zuii (~cauchy@BC06BF93.catv.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 16:10.56 | KaadmY | oh darn |
| 16:11.06 | KaadmY | just realized why some of my screens yesterday came up black |
| 16:11.12 | KaadmY | out of disk space... :( |
| 16:12.36 | macsforme | looks nice, KaadmY... a good start |
| 16:48.09 | blast007 | KaadmY: that's what I said :P |
| 16:48.41 | blast007 | why doesn't the grass wave in the wind? there's obviously wind, just look at the flags! |
| 16:48.44 | blast007 | ducks |
| 16:50.36 | KaadmY | using displaylists, can't move vertices |
| 16:50.41 | KaadmY | i originally had waving grass |
| 16:50.47 | KaadmY | too slow with glVertex every frame tho :( |
| 16:51.47 | KaadmY | any way to change the modelview matrix to deform the vertices? |
| 16:52.03 | blast007 | use a hammer |
| 16:52.12 | KaadmY | ._. |
| 16:52.16 | blast007 | that's how I deform stuff |
| 16:52.24 | KaadmY | blast007: which os do you use? |
| 16:52.30 | KaadmY | linux, windows, mac? |
| 16:52.43 | blast007 | primarily Windows, but also Linux |
| 16:52.58 | KaadmY | can you try the 3d grass branch if you haven't already? |
| 16:53.22 | blast007 | I can when I get home |
| 16:53.36 | KaadmY | okay |
| 16:53.59 | KaadmY | looks pretty good, except you can see the billboarding pretty obviously |
| 16:54.24 | JeffM | then don't billboard it, make them into a * shape |
| 16:54.50 | blast007 | by "billboarding" you mean it acts like the old doom game? |
| 16:54.52 | JeffM | and yes, you can push, modify, then pop the matrix |
| 16:55.07 | JeffM | it's a quad that always faces the camera, like rain |
| 16:55.16 | KaadmY | blast007: yep |
| 16:55.25 | blast007 | 2.5D ;) |
| 16:55.32 | KaadmY | blast007: how else do you use sprites, then? |
| 16:55.45 | JeffM | KaadmY: but you can't modify specific vertices by the the matrix when you have a list, you can only modify before or after the list call. |
| 16:55.45 | blast007 | well, I always drink sprites |
| 16:55.59 | JeffM | You'd want VBOs |
| 16:56.07 | JeffM | and not use lists |
| 16:56.26 | JeffM | think of a display list as "I saved these GL Commands, paste them in with each call" |
| 16:56.42 | KaadmY | yep |
| 16:56.46 | KaadmY | still faster than glVertex |
| 16:56.53 | KaadmY | and far easier to implement than vbos |
| 16:57.22 | JeffM | because your list is made up of glVertex, you are still calling glVertex, it's just on the card instead of over the bus |
| 16:57.33 | KaadmY | wonders why VBOs are suddenly a high priority as soon as he starts working on anything rendering related |
| 16:58.15 | blast007 | KaadmY: you could write us a new rendering engine! ;) |
| 16:59.09 | blast007 | except we'd probably target OpenGL 3.0 or 3.2 if we ever wrote or switched to a new engine |
| 16:59.22 | JeffM | you could load a vertex shader to modify the grass elements on the card |
| 16:59.50 | KaadmY | i have ogl 2.1, so i'm out of doing that |
| 17:00.04 | blast007 | KaadmY: I think your card only does 1.5 in hardware |
| 17:00.06 | KaadmY | JeffM: that also means i have to support shader loading, which also is currently unimlemented |
| 17:00.40 | JeffM | have at it |
| 17:00.51 | JeffM | or use an existing engine and get it all for "free(tm)" |
| 17:01.03 | KaadmY | ie. irrlicht/ogre, which are both even slower? |
| 17:01.18 | blast007 | VBOs would bump our OpenGL requirements from 1.1 up to 1.5 - I wouldn't be able to play on my XP laptop from 2006 anymore :) |
| 17:01.50 | Void7 | I thougt VBOS are 2.0... |
| 17:01.57 | JeffM | KaadmY: they are both much faster and better then bzflag in every way |
| 17:01.59 | blast007 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertex_Buffer_Object |
| 17:02.09 | JeffM | irrlicht was the closest drop in that I looked at |
| 17:02.14 | JeffM | or lightfeather |
| 17:03.01 | KaadmY | or *just* fix the current one |
| 17:03.05 | JeffM | the big issue with any engine is going to be the Z axis |
| 17:03.10 | JeffM | get on it |
| 17:03.15 | JeffM | it's a big task |
| 17:03.20 | JeffM | you'll need a debugger :) |
| 17:04.03 | blast007 | truly fixing BZFlag would involve rewriting most of the code |
| 17:04.15 | KaadmY | or just a complete rewrite |
| 17:04.16 | blast007 | it's designed wrong at the core |
| 17:04.28 | JeffM | lag is a myth |
| 17:04.29 | KaadmY | bzflag is inherently flawed in too many ways |
| 17:04.41 | KaadmY | ie. lag, networking |
| 17:05.04 | KaadmY | collisions still discreet steps for normal boxes iirs |
| 17:05.05 | KaadmY | iirc* |
| 17:05.18 | JeffM | none of that existed in 1994 |
| 17:05.44 | KaadmY | could be added fairly easily now though |
| 17:06.00 | blast007 | define "easily" |
| 17:06.12 | KaadmY | there's already raycast code afaik, isn't there? |
| 17:06.14 | JeffM | ahhh the exuberance of youth |
| 17:06.26 | blast007 | the biggest issue is that the server is still not much more than a data relay |
| 17:06.30 | JeffM | probalby in shot strat |
| 17:06.36 | KaadmY | except i'm kinda assuming bzflag's source is easy to read :) |
| 17:06.44 | blast007 | yeah... about that.... |
| 17:06.51 | JeffM | you assume much young padawan |
| 17:07.26 | blast007 | a lot of it isn't documented, or it's documented in a way that tells you what it's doing but not why you want it to do that |
| 17:19.41 | Void7 | x += 1337 + 42; // XXX: why does this even exist? |
| 17:20.09 | blast007 | well that one's obvious |
| 17:20.45 | KaadmY | hmm |
| 17:20.48 | KaadmY | that *is* wierd |
| 17:21.03 | KaadmY | it should be "x += 1337 + 42; // cuz leet" |
| 17:26.50 | Void7 | no, "// 1337 @n53r t0 7h3 un1v3r53:) |
| 17:30.12 | the_map | no |
| 17:30.35 | the_map | x += 1337 + 42; //because leet is the answer to life, the universe, and everything |
| 17:31.29 | blast007 | see "Loading the plugin": https://github.com/BZFlag-Dev/bzflag/blob/2.4/plugins/SAMPLE_PLUGIN/README.SAMPLE_PLUGIN.txt |
| 17:34.00 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (~a_meteori@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 17:34.17 | blast007 | Why can't my ATI Rage 128 VR run my Oculus Rift? |
| 17:36.03 | JeffM | it's got the word VR right in it! |
| 17:36.18 | the_map | blast007: This is the BZFlag support channel. For inquiries pertaining to the Oculus Rift, you should join the relevant support channel for it. |
| 17:36.20 | the_map | :P |
| 17:36.23 | JeffM | HDMIwhat? |
| 17:36.41 | JeffM | VGA->DVI->HDMI |
| 17:36.52 | blast007 | JeffM: I had a heck of a time getting it to fit into my PCIe slot |
| 17:36.57 | blast007 | had to get out the dremel |
| 17:37.01 | the_map | did you use a hammer? |
| 17:37.05 | the_map | oh |
| 17:37.06 | JeffM | the_map: It thought this was a dev channel, not a support channel ;) |
| 17:37.51 | JeffM | was the rage 128 PCI or AGP? I thought they had normal PCI versions |
| 17:38.04 | blast007 | PCI or AGP 2x |
| 17:38.11 | the_map | JeffM: https://wiki.bzflag.org/BZFlag_on_IRC says, "The #bzflag channel is the primary development and support channel." |
| 17:38.35 | JeffM | so he's developing bzflag for VR retro systems |
| 17:38.58 | the_map | blast007: please describe your problem in detail |
| 17:39.05 | blast007 | how I install shutters on rift???? |
| 17:39.21 | the_map | is your rift running windows? |
| 17:39.32 | the_map | because it's easiest to install shutters on windows |
| 17:40.04 | JeffM | RIfts run on lies and deciet |
| 17:40.20 | the_map | so it *is* windows! |
| 17:40.28 | blast007 | vomit bag not included |
| 17:40.34 | JeffM | no, some imbeded linux I think ;) |
| 17:40.45 | JeffM | the rift itself doesn't realy run software |
| 17:40.54 | JeffM | it's a fancy TV |
| 17:41.22 | JeffM | and there is NO real way to make bzflag work on it with out shaders, so GL3 |
| 17:42.10 | blast007 | JeffM: did you skip getting the CV1? |
| 17:42.20 | blast007 | (or at least waiting for the touch controllers?) |
| 17:42.25 | JeffM | yeah, I sold my DK2 |
| 17:42.36 | JeffM | I'd buy a vive first |
| 17:42.52 | JeffM | but I want one with a leap motion on it first, so I can "see" my hands |
| 17:43.31 | blast007 | it sounds like Leap Motion has come a long way since I had first heard about it |
| 17:43.42 | *** join/#bzflag Void7 (~Void7@205.157.147.198) |
| 17:43.52 | JeffM | no way I can find all the buttons on this monstrosity with out seeing my hands, http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/x56.html |
| 18:33.12 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (~a_meteori@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 18:51.55 | *** join/#bzflag Void7 (~Void7@205.157.147.198) |
| 22:54.53 | KaadmY | uh https://wiki.bzflag.org/Development_RoadMap |
| 22:55.23 | KaadmY | is that roadmap deprecated now? |
| 23:06.08 | *** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (~I_Died_On@unaffiliated/idiedonce/x-1828535) |
| 23:06.30 | blast007 | what part of it? |
| 23:07.02 | blast007 | the 2.4.6 stuff? |