IRC log for #bzflag on 20160627

00:04.09kierraIt's Argentina vs Chile time!
00:35.39blast007so, final name?
00:35.52blast007we still going with the overweight one?  :P
00:40.04allejoBZFlag 2.4.6 "BZFlag 2.4.6"
00:41.29blast007"BZFlag.net - It's dot com!"
00:55.54blast007but really, I'm ready to commit and push, so we good with BZFlag 2.4.6 "Eight, Our Codebase is Overweight" ?
01:18.30macsformeyep
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01:40.35blast007hmm, 'git diff --check' seems to count Windows line endings as "trailing whitespace" :P
01:40.56blast007and converting the file to unix line endings made it complain about even more
01:41.32allejodo our source files even have consistent line endings?
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01:41.45BZnotify[13bzflag] 15blast007 pushed 1 new commit to 062.4: 02https://git.io/voHiV
01:41.45BZnotify13bzflag/062.4 142e8304c 15Scott Wichser: Update version numbers for release.
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01:42.18BZnotify[13bzflag] 15blast007 pushed 2 new commits to 062.4: 02https://git.io/voHiw
01:42.18BZnotify13bzflag/062.4 149210631 15allejo: Update banner for 2.4.6
01:42.18BZnotify13bzflag/062.4 14dd6ca52 15blast007: Merge pull request #45 from allejo/title-246...
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01:44.16allejototally forgot i had that pull request already
01:44.21blast007:)
01:45.20blast007doing a 'make distcheck' quick and then I'll tag it
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02:20.05the_map<<+allejo>> BZFlag 2.4.6 "BZFlag 2.4.6"
02:20.11the_mapno
02:20.18the_mapBZFlag 2.4.6 "BZFlag 2.4.8"
02:20.26the_mapjust to mess with people :P
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02:54.25blast007man, if I could stop breaking my local repos, that would be great ....
02:55.22allejowhatchado
02:57.22blast007breaked it
02:57.42allejobreakeded*
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03:21.12BZnotify[13bzflag] 15blast007 pushed 1 new commit to 062.4: 02https://git.io/voHMf
03:21.12BZnotify13bzflag/062.4 14c805a1d 15Scott Wichser: Shortcuts for everyone!
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03:21.27BZnotify[13bzflag] 15blast007 tagged 06v2.4.6 at 141cd4f7c: 02https://git.io/voHMU
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03:37.57blast007who wants to make the forum post?
03:38.14blast007I have the source tars and the Windows installer uploaded
03:38.53blast007https://download.bzflag.org/bzflag/windows/2.4.6/bzflag-2.4.6.exe    and    https://download.bzflag.org/bzflag/source/2.4.6/
03:41.22allejowas the AMD on Windows 10 issue fixed?
03:42.54blast007the notable features would be the cycleRadar/cyclePanel key binding command (maybe), the timestamp stuff, and the fact that it should work right on Windows 10 with AMD graphics
03:43.58allejoi can write it. what's cycleRadar and cyclePanel do?
03:45.31blast007cycles through the radar zooms and the chat panel tabs, I'd guess
03:46.26macsformeit lets you do like "cycleRadar 0 0.25 0.5 1" and cycle through those radar levels with one key/button press, and same for panel tabs
03:47.46allejoinstead of just specifying keys for each zoom level?
03:47.49allejoneat
03:47.55macsformeright... mostly for gamepad style controllers
03:48.34allejo~macsforme++
03:48.40allejoi like that feature :p
03:48.54macsforme:)
03:49.14allejoare there mac builds and source zips at download.bzflag.org?
03:49.25allejooh... nvm. just read up
03:49.34macsformeI'm uploading now
03:55.29allejoyay
03:56.03macsformeblast007: http://fairserve.net/~josh/bzflag/BZFlag-2.4.6-MacOSX.zip
03:57.16blast007https://download.bzflag.org/bzflag/osx/2.4.6/BZFlag-2.4.6-MacOSX.zip
04:03.25macsformemaybe allejo can give that a spin too just to check the signage
04:06.32allejodownloads it
04:06.52blast007main site and MOTD updated
04:08.46allejosweet, no gatekeeper warning
04:10.04macsformecool
04:10.34allejohttps://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=19241
04:11.50JeffMCongratulations
04:15.47allejocheers
04:31.42macsformeallejo: actually I didn't explain it quite right... I edited the post to fix the example, and to add examples for cyclePanel, and to make the ChangeLog link point to the 2.4.6 tag version... tweak it some more if you need
04:32.35allejoah thank you
04:36.37RoscoePColtrainlooks ok to me
04:44.34the_mapaccording to allejo's forum post, "Timestamps can now be saved with /savemsg using the '-t' option; e.g. '/savemsg -t'"
04:44.49the_mapis there an option for echoing timestamps to the console?
04:45.07the_mapsimilar to the `bzflag -e` command, but with timestamps
04:48.12the_mapalso, btw, the cycle radar command from the post doesn't work
04:51.02macsformeit works for me, if I bind it to the 8 key (6 is something else)
04:51.25macsformeare you using the line from the updated post?
04:52.18the_mapdon't think so
04:52.25the_mapnope
04:52.37the_mapthanks
04:55.02allejoi don't believe there's a -t option for `bzflag -e`, the_map
04:55.24the_map:(
04:55.54the_mapthe cycle panel commands don't work for me
05:01.04macsformeI did 'bind 8 down "cyclePanel right_off"' and it worked for me
05:02.34the_mapyeah, I just get an error message telling me the usage of the command
05:08.43allejohttps://github.com/caskroom/homebrew-cask/pull/22413
05:09.52RoscoePColtrainwhat is that?
05:10.30allejoone of OS X's package managers
05:10.55RoscoePColtrainI mean, what is the cask? or is that just homebrew itself?
05:11.51allejothe bzflag cask
05:12.28RoscoePColtrainso I *should* be able to "brew install bzflag"?
05:13.22allejo"brew cask install bzflag"
05:13.26allejoit'll install the .app
05:13.36allejonot sure about the command line version actually
05:24.31RoscoePColtrainbrew install Caskroom/cask/bzflag
05:24.45RoscoePColtrainhad to wait for brew update to finish
05:25.39RoscoePColtrainWarning: The default Caskroom location has moved to /usr/local/Caskroom.
05:25.46RoscoePColtrainis the formula yours?
05:26.07RoscoePColtrainor is that a local warning?
05:28.19RoscoePColtrainseems to be
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10:25.54blast007thanks for the forum post.  could someone update it to say that the keypad fix affects only SDL2?  I updated the github release post already.
12:25.36blast007nvm, I got it :)
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15:13.40*** join/#bzflag KaadmY (uid135503@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zpwqvsbzpausplob)
15:15.14KaadmYhops the long attempt train to try and implement 3d grass in bzflag
15:16.02KaadmYbtw, why doesn't the BZflag github account have a link to bzflag-dev?
15:16.45KaadmYis there a license requirement for data that (might) be included in bzflag?
15:17.16KaadmYah, LGPL?
15:17.42KaadmYi assume that's source+data, is that correct?
15:34.51blast007what do you mean by "bzflag github account"?
15:35.44blast007Resources would not need to be LGPL.  They'd just need to be compatible and allow reuse, modifications, and commercial distribution.
15:36.36KaadmYyes
15:36.47KaadmYso CC0 should be perfectly ok i think?
15:37.39KaadmYby github account, i mean why https://github.com/bzflag doesn't have a link to the actual game repo at https://github.com/BZFlag-Dev?
15:37.58blast007that isn't our account
15:38.19blast007someone else took that, had a paid account/team attached to it, and has private repos on it
15:39.04KaadmYoh realy?
15:39.06KaadmYreally*
15:39.14KaadmYnever knew that
15:39.20blast007CC0 could be an option, yes, but please discuss more about your plan
15:39.47JeffMKaadmY: yes github send them a message asking them to contact us, but they declined.
15:40.31JeffMwell, all ya alls now, it was us at the time :)
15:41.28KaadmYblast007: all i should need for 3d grass would be a single grass texture(CC0)(http://opengameart.org/content/grass-2-0) and some source changes
15:41.41blast007why do we want 3D grass?
15:41.50KaadmYno idea, just thought i'd try to implement it
15:42.06the_mapblast007: why not have 3D grass?
15:42.10JeffMKaadmY: and billboard code and a proper z sorting mode
15:42.13KaadmYthe_map: exactly
15:42.37JeffMit is not as simple as "just put the grass in"
15:42.45KaadmYJeffM: no idea HOW to do it, but i can still try
15:42.46JeffMyou dont' want to transform all that grass
15:43.00blast007because some maps already do it, and some maps have multiple layers of "grass", some some don't have the same floor texture, some are in space, etc
15:43.03blast007lots of reasons
15:43.05JeffMsure,  it's totaly possible, I just want you to know that there is a little more work to it.
15:43.15KaadmYJeffM: yes i know
15:43.29KaadmYcould also try implementing a map option to enable/disable 3d grass
15:43.32JeffMyeah you'd have to make it optional
15:43.48JeffMbest way would be to use a shader
15:43.50KaadmYand this is just a test :P
15:43.51blast007it's already optional and possible in a map
15:44.04KaadmYblast007: with tons of billboard mesh objects?
15:44.12blast007groups
15:44.17JeffMthat will not be efficent
15:44.44blast007as effecient as adding it to every map
15:44.48KaadmYie. if i implement it ingame, i can have it sink into the ground/fade out depending in view angle etc
15:45.08blast007so, LOD, which the map format already has?
15:45.21KaadmYnot really LOD
15:45.21JeffMblast007: if the engine could do it in  screenspace there would be a lot less geometry to transform
15:45.32JeffMyeah, you don't evne treat it as part of the octree culling
15:45.42KaadmYblast007: LOD would look bad
15:45.58KaadmYideally screen-space grass with shaders would be the best
15:46.01JeffMits like fog but with grass :)
15:46.06KaadmYbut i have no idea how to implement that
15:46.20KaadmYJeffM: you need to handle 3d projection then
15:46.41JeffMyes, that's still cheaper then transforming a ton of world grass
15:46.45JeffMand culling it
15:46.56JeffMit's going to jack up a layer of your octree
15:47.11KaadmYi was planning on putting it outside the octree
15:47.15JeffMthe entire ground layer will be full of subnodes
15:47.23blast007are you going to only spawn it on open ground?  it would look silly to see grass in a building when you drive through it with OO
15:47.25KaadmYall it needs is a triangle of grass that's visible in the view
15:47.26JeffMalso, don't forget not everyone uses the ground plane.....
15:47.35KaadmYblast007: yep, Void7 already pointed that out
15:47.44Void7KaadmY: what about water? :P
15:47.47KaadmYJeffM: ikr, some maps have fake ground
15:48.04KaadmYhuh
15:48.09KaadmYwhat about grass "zones" in the map
15:48.16KaadmYie. flag zones that contain grasss?
15:48.17KaadmYgrass*
15:48.28KaadmYthen it's part of the engine and you have map control
15:48.29Void7yessssss i have grassssssssss my precioussssssssssssssssssss
15:48.35blast007sod \n position 5 5 0 \n size 20 20 \n end
15:48.46KaadmYexactly
15:48.52KaadmYwould there be any problems with that?
15:49.00JeffMadd  a "ground" property to meshes, and make the ground be flagged as such. Maps that don't have a ground mesh automatically get a precomputed plane
15:49.11Void7KaadmY: make the height configurable and the texture configurable
15:49.16Void7KaadmY: ie. for caves
15:49.45KaadmYimo zones are the simplest to implement for now
15:50.50blast007would that kind of thing have to wait for a new major version of the game?  dunno how the world stuff works for things that the client needs to know about
15:51.01blast007I'd think that older clients would barf on that world binary
15:51.18KaadmYhow are zones handled?
15:52.15KaadmYcould the world binary remove remove 3d grass depending on client version?
15:52.58the_mapyou use a 3D lawn mower to remove 3D grass
15:53.04KaadmYfor now i'll just make it clientside
15:53.30KaadmYjust on the ground
15:53.56JeffMblast007: historical, map things like that did wait for major versions, rain, meshes, etc...
15:54.14JeffMtho actualy rain is done in BZDB isn't it.. nevermind :)
15:58.09blast007KaadmY: don't you already have enough issues with low framerate?  :P
15:58.23KaadmYblast007: i have fps problems, yes
15:58.30KaadmYbut it's a *TEST* ffs :P
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16:26.30trepana magic material name + mesh would do the trick, or phydrv name  (in a backwards compat fashion ... as long as the effect was only visual)
16:27.11trepaniirc, map zones are not sent to clients
16:29.25trepansrc/bzfs/bzfs.cxx:  databasePtr = entryZones.pack(databasePtr);  // I stand corrected
16:30.04trepanah, right, they're sent over the wire so that maps can be saved "in full"
16:57.27KaadmYany way in the renderer to access the player's view yaw?
16:57.45blast007where specifically?
16:57.46KaadmYi could just calculate it from view pos rel to grass billboard pos
16:57.51blast007we kinda render all over the place ;)
16:57.56KaadmYblast007: src/bzflag/BackgroundRenderer.cxx
16:58.17KaadmYusing view yaw to orient billboards is hacky
16:58.29KaadmYbut i'll check performance then use correct billboarding
16:59.34KaadmYanother thing is i have no idea how to add materials to faces
16:59.41KaadmYbzflag has a custom material handling system
17:10.32KaadmYokay
17:10.35KaadmYbillboards work
17:14.05KaadmYhuh
17:18.48KaadmYuhhhhhhh
17:19.12KaadmYwhy do my (custom) drawn faces flicker in and out when i'm moving around?
17:19.28KaadmYi set glColor4f(1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0)
17:19.33KaadmYso it's not an alpha problem
17:19.48KaadmYdoes bzflag have some state regarding the floor/grid/mirror stuff?
17:26.12the_mapI've noticed flickering on apoc in certain areas
17:26.28KaadmYno, as on complete faces disappearing at a time
17:26.32KaadmYonly with my 3d grass setup
17:26.33blast007the_map: that's probably just z-fighting
17:26.44KaadmYi mean entire faces disappearing
17:26.47the_mapblast007: yeah, figured
17:26.57KaadmYand stuff like transforms seem to not work either
17:26.58the_mapKaadmY: pretend that's a feature maybe?
17:26.59the_map:P
17:27.10KaadmYthe_map: grass flickering and disappearing randomly?
17:27.13KaadmY*not* a feature
17:27.16JeffMyeah, flush the GL State, so it get rebuilt
17:27.23blast007It's not normal grass, it's SPACE grass!  From SPACE!
17:27.31JeffMbzflag has a state cache because state changes were expensive in the past
17:28.06KaadmYi'm mostly looking at and copying state handling from gridGState in src/bzflag/BackgroundRenderer.cxx
17:28.11the_mapKaadmY: you mean grass isn't supposed to flicker and disappear randomly?
17:28.13JeffMcheck the other drawing code and you'll see how it's done, like the light dots on the tank, or rain
17:28.28KaadmYJeffM: i already have drawing faces
17:28.35KaadmYaround the tank in a square
17:28.49JeffMsure, sure, but that's not the material state
17:29.07JeffMthe rest of the code doesn't know you changed colors and alpha and stuff,
17:29.11KaadmYikr
17:29.14JeffMand it's not designed to restate
17:29.17KaadmYcant figure out the material system
17:29.51JeffMexactly, it's messsed up
17:29.59JeffMhence why I sugest you look at the rain code,
17:30.04JeffMsee how it does materials
17:30.33KaadmYokay
17:31.47JeffMthere is a global object that keeps track of what materal states have changed
17:32.11JeffMthen each drawing section says "I need this state". and the global object then changes ONLY the states that are different from the curent state to the desired staate
17:32.22JeffMso that it minimize the calls that change GL state
17:32.30JeffMthose calls used to be very slow under software GL
17:32.45JeffMso if you call GL directly, now the current GL state is different from that global cached state
17:33.15JeffMso when the next drawing code comes along and says "I need 50% alpha", the cache may think it's already set, but you set it to something else
17:33.40KaadmYJeffM: i think i got it
17:33.56JeffMthere should be a call that says "force the next guy to restate everything"
17:34.03JeffMthat's what I think I did for rain
17:34.13JeffMso I could do my own GL setup, then just invalidate the entire cache
17:34.24KaadmYlol
17:34.38KaadmY/ ewww                                                                                                                                                                                            
17:34.38KaadmYpuddleSpeed = 3.0f;
17:34.39KaadmYpuddleColor[0] = 0.75f;
17:34.39KaadmYpuddleColor[1] = puddleColor[2] = 0.0f;
17:34.39KaadmYrainSize[0] = 2.0f;
17:34.39KaadmYrainSize[1] = 2.0f;
17:34.48KaadmYbrown O.O
17:34.53KaadmYlarge, brown puddles
17:34.55JeffMit was a while ago )
17:35.11KaadmYwho forgot to go to the bathroom when they woke up!?
17:35.13JeffMno, that's red
17:35.22JeffMR,G,B
17:35.26JeffMblood
17:35.30JeffMit defaults to frogs
17:35.34JeffMbloodrain
17:35.35KaadmYah
17:35.40KaadmYdoesn't matter :P
17:35.45KaadmYstill kinda dumb :)
17:35.47JeffMbrown would have some other components
17:36.00JeffMfrog rain was pretty nasty
17:36.43KaadmYheh
17:36.56KaadmYwaits for the compile
17:36.59KaadmYshould work now....
17:37.01JeffMis the tank avatar manager still in there?
17:37.06KaadmYuh
17:37.07KaadmYwayt
17:37.28JeffMit was a class to abstract drawing tanks
17:37.34JeffMit should do the same kind of reset
17:40.10KaadmYcross his fingers
17:40.17KaadmYtextures should now work >.<
17:40.25KaadmYno[e
17:40.27KaadmYnope*
17:41.08KaadmYyay
17:41.16KaadmYnow it doesn't draw, but says it can't load texture
17:41.52KaadmYhuh
17:42.01KaadmYfound the texture, but nothing's being drawn
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17:43.36JeffMyeah poop brown has many components : )http://www.colourlovers.com/color/593001/poop_brown
17:44.50KaadmY...
17:45.00Void7...
17:45.16KaadmY...
17:46.13KaadmYhuuuh
17:46.20KaadmYi'm using the texture "3dgrass
17:46.22KaadmY"*
17:46.29KaadmYand it's using stdground for some reason
17:46.31KaadmYi think?
17:46.39JeffMdebuggers are your friend :)
17:47.38KaadmYohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
17:47.41KaadmYi don't bind the texture
17:47.59JeffMand in the darkness bind them
17:48.55KaadmY..?
17:49.05JeffMohhh the youths of today
17:49.17JeffMis ensadened
17:49.24KaadmYis enmaddened
17:50.36JeffMNine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
17:50.50KaadmYdoes OpenGLGStateBuilder bind the texture automatically?
17:51.17JeffMstep into the code and see
17:51.26JeffMbut I belive it handles all state changes, including textures.
17:51.32JeffMIIRC it calls texture manager
17:51.43JeffMbut it's been a LONG while since i've been in that code
17:52.04KaadmYi set the state with it
17:52.10KaadmYsame way as everything else
17:52.19JeffMdid texture manager bind it?
17:52.28KaadmYJeffM: how would i find that out?
17:52.46KaadmYoh damn
17:52.50KaadmYi found out the problem
17:53.00JeffMare you using a debugger?
17:53.11KaadmYno
17:53.29JeffMI recomend you use one, and set breakpoints in the code so you can see what's happening
17:53.35JeffMinstead of guessing.
17:53.49JeffMyou can set a breakpoint where the texture is bound and checked.
17:53.58KaadmYi *think* i found the problem
17:54.06KaadmYvoila
17:54.08KaadmYfixed
17:54.21KaadmYwas my dumbness :P
17:54.22JeffMdo you have something against debuggers?
17:54.55KaadmYnot really
17:55.02KaadmYjust never really though i'd need them
17:55.48JeffMyou will, I recommend getting used to them. They are quite powerful
18:08.21JeffMthey are very good for helping find dumbness :)
18:08.31KaadmYyep
18:08.57KaadmYi have a habit of copy-pasting code and not replacing keywords that make or break logic somewhere else
18:12.56KaadmYdoes bzflag have any sort of noise generator?
18:13.01KaadmYex. perlin noise?
18:18.25JeffMis there still static for the radar?
18:21.17KaadmYstatic?
18:21.50JeffMJamming would put static in the radar.
18:21.55Void7it's an image
18:22.09KaadmYah
18:25.58the_mapJeffM: I got the LoTR quote btw :)
18:26.09JeffMhas faith for the future
18:27.25JeffMneeds to buy a lawn to tell kids to get off of.
18:27.47the_mapwould this lawn have 3D grass? :P
18:28.02JeffMsince I don't live in flatland, one would expect so
18:28.20JeffMtechnically it'll be at least 4D grass
18:28.24JeffMsince it does exist in the time axis
18:30.59the_maphttps://xkcd.com/1524/
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19:18.18KaadmYnow there's a 3d grass density option in the menu
19:30.18KaadmYis there a variable for how long bzflag's been running?
19:30.36KaadmYi just needs a constantly changing number for a sin wave(waving grass)
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19:35.46JeffMTimeKeeper should have it
19:36.52KaadmYokay
19:40.53KaadmYis there also a way to check time of day?
19:41.08KaadmYgstate.setShading() is already used
19:41.24KaadmYbut probably requires needs to set glColor(which i also use after that)
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19:43.56blast007JeffM: speaking of TimeKeeper, do you recall the reason we recalibrate QPC?  Was that to fix SportChick's dual-core jitter issue?
19:44.20JeffMvariable clock CPUs
19:44.23blast007it breaks all to heck on Windows for bzfs, running faster than it should
19:44.24JeffMstarted on laptops
19:44.34JeffMbut now all CPUs have that issue
19:44.56JeffMso the QPC count is a CPU function, it gets incrmented every clock cycle on the CPU.
19:45.08JeffMregardless of what frequency the CPU is running at
19:45.38JeffMso when the CPU changes clocks, we need to recompute what that count means, in order to get a "things/second" time.
19:45.56blast007the server countdown timer runs about 10 seconds fast for every 30 seconds on the wall
19:46.02JeffMbut yeah, she was one of the first people to se an issue with that.
19:46.17JeffMyeah that recompute code isn't great
19:46.32JeffMdo you really need to support the server on windows?
19:46.38JeffMor a server with all those features?
19:47.00blast007during a short test, it runs at the correct speed when I remove the recalibration code
19:47.02JeffMthere is probalby better QPC code on stack exchange or somewhere
19:47.20JeffMtry it on a laptop and swap it to battery
19:47.45JeffMit's probable that you can disable that code for servers, since nobody is going to run a laptop server on battery :)
19:47.45blast007tried it on two laptops, can't recall if it was on battery though
19:48.11blast007iirc, it also ran okay if I made the server not sleep
19:48.11JeffMbut yes, that's what that code is for, to handle changes in the QPC frequency
19:48.29JeffMor go mixed mode and use the .net timer, it's better
19:49.32blast007SDL2 also has it's own timer code that I have yet to try
19:50.43JeffMthat's probably the best way to go
19:50.52JeffMit'll have a solid version of the QPC stuff
19:51.14JeffMthere are ways to get notified when the QPC Freq changes, and that's the right time to adjust your timming
19:51.34JeffMor it may tie into the lower level windows timer codes
19:51.47blast007uses QPC from what it looks like in the code
19:52.00JeffMwith all the trotilable CPUs these days, QPC has been come less reliable with out good resync code
19:52.09JeffMsure, they probalby just resync better
19:52.20JeffMdo you build windows with SDL2 all the time now?
19:52.42blast007yep
19:52.52JeffMyeah then use the hell out of it
19:53.02JeffMget rid of all that other platform stuff
19:53.11blast007still uses some native stuff for things like input and audio, I believe, but SDL2 for the display and window management
19:53.29JeffMSDL2 shoudl be able to wrap audio
19:53.39JeffMinput I can understand, for all the force feedback stuff
19:54.00blast007I think audio wasn't working, and I didn't take the time to figure out why
19:55.39JeffMdo they abstract 3d Audio?
20:00.00blast007"Set audio playback of 8-bit and 16-bit audio, mono stereo or 5.1 surround sound, with optional conversion if the format is not supported by the hardware"
20:02.56JeffMthat doesn't sound like a positional audio API.
20:03.37KaadmYdoes anybody else wake up in the morning and go "Let's implement 3D grass in BZFlag!"?
20:04.42JeffMI woke up yesterday and said "lets implement a helm console"
20:04.49JeffMbut then I had to clean a cat box
20:04.57JeffMdoes that count?
20:05.41KaadmYmaybe :P
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20:11.59blast007yeah, I don't think it's positional audio
20:14.17KaadmYbzflag is currently really lacking positional audio
20:14.26KaadmYcurrently the sound just delays by distance
20:14.33JeffMKaadmY:
20:14.46JeffMuntrue, it's doing it's OWN positonal audio
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20:14.54JeffMit does dopler
20:14.59blast007even does the doppler effect
20:15.03JeffMit's not great, but it is positional
20:15.12JeffMbut it's all done on the CPU and doesn't work in 5.1 systems
20:15.20JeffMbetter to let the audio subsystem in the OS do it
20:15.26JeffMwell at least on windows
20:15.56JeffMon linux the concept of "single sound API" is a joke
20:16.00KaadmYoh, i didn't know bzf  used doppler sound
20:16.14JeffMyeah that math does all kinds of fancy sound stuff
20:16.16KaadmYalsa, pulse, oss, along with ~20 other systems
20:16.28JeffMbut it's superseded by modern systems.
20:16.36JeffMit was pretty cool for 1994
20:18.15blast007OpenAL Soft is the main (only?) open source solution for positional audio
20:19.14JeffMyeah it'd be your best bet
20:19.29JeffMit's the most consitent, and it's expected for many games.
20:19.38JeffMbzflag is still a game right?
20:19.45JeffMnot an MP3 player?
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20:20.05blast007well, I did make BZFlag play a music loop once, so I'm not sure ;)
20:20.24JeffMdidn't someone want to put a terminal emulator in it once?
20:20.43blast007and I had a version of 1.7 that showed a ASCII display for Winamp in it and let you control Winamp in-game
20:21.03JeffMman I remember winamp
20:21.51blast007Won't someone think of the llamas!
20:22.12JeffMthat thing went the way of lycos
20:24.56KaadmYany way to access the tank's yaw?
20:25.04KaadmYor preferably the view's yaw?
20:25.15KaadmY(should be the same outside of obs)
20:26.04JeffMthere should be a local player object that has a rotation
20:26.23KaadmYdoes the player object update yaw in obs mode too?
20:26.36JeffMdunno, debug and find out ;)
20:26.46JeffMstep into the code to see what builds up the worldview matrix
20:26.57KaadmYi suck at matrices
20:27.00KaadmYVoid7 can testify
20:27.07Void7yes i can :P
20:27.17JeffMhence why you step into the code to see what makes the matrix. there will be a rotation someware
20:27.26blast007In Soviet Russia, you has matrix!
20:27.28JeffMtanks store a position and rotation
20:27.40JeffMso do romaing observers
20:28.16JeffMthat will be contactinated into the modelview matrix, you can find out what the source of the concatination is, and therefore where the rotaiton is stored.
20:28.31KaadmYconcatenate*
20:28.39JeffMyeah yeah, wahtever ;)
20:28.42KaadmY:P
20:28.48JeffMspeeelling is not my strung sute
20:28.58KaadmYany idea which file has the view transforms?
20:29.05JeffMnope
20:29.14JeffMdebugger will take you there as you step in :)
20:29.36blast007there's also things that, like, search through files, and stuff
20:29.48KaadmYi think i found its called azimuth, not yaw like everyone else :)
20:29.48JeffMblasphemy!
20:30.12JeffMyaw is most commonly used for air/space
20:30.14blast007we're not a flight simulator or a boat simulator
20:30.20KaadmYwe're a TANK SIMULATOR
20:30.26JeffMmeh on the simulator
20:30.35JeffMyou are a tank based arcade game
20:30.45blast007we're a simulation of a bad simulation
20:30.54KaadmYso... the direction cars face is called the azimuth, because cars aren't airplanes or boats?
20:30.57JeffMBZFlag, the "BZ" simulator
20:31.01JeffMwiht flags
20:31.07KaadmYi
20:31.16KaadmYi'm BZ, don't bother me
20:31.18JeffMland vehicles call it a heading
20:31.32JeffM"BZ" is another tank game that was writen around the time of BZFlag
20:31.33KaadmY..why doesn't bz call it heading, then? :P
20:31.45JeffMask the origonal author
20:31.56JeffMit's not like there was logic
20:33.43blast007we should have an FAQ that just has "Oh god why?" as the only question
20:33.56JeffM"Well, let me tell you a story"
20:34.09KaadmY"Shit broke"
20:34.11JeffM"Because Tom told me not to change too much of Chris's stuff"
20:34.33JeffMmainly we were scared he'd not let us work on it anymore before he started selling it at retail.
20:35.45JeffMKaadmY: to "Break" means it was working "correctly" at one point
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20:42.31Void7ah, so that means it never broke :P
20:43.23KaadmYVoid7: i assume that also means it never worked?
20:43.31Void7um... yes
20:49.30KaadmYugh
20:49.50KaadmYatm the grass rendering's done in SceneRenderer:doRender()
20:49.59KaadmYand that's called before the game starts
20:50.16KaadmYso i can't access the LocalPlayer stuff, ie. LocalPlayer::getAngle()
20:50.32KaadmYwhat's a better place to put grass rendering?
20:50.37KaadmYnew SceneNode?
20:52.19JeffMthere should be a place that renders backgorund stuff, like the rain
20:52.39JeffMif you are doing your own culling you probalby don't want a sceneNode
20:53.06JeffMIIRC, the rain gets the view angle
20:54.10KaadmYso just add a file(s) for 3d grass handling and create a new SceneNode there?
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21:32.23JeffM*sigh*
21:32.33JeffMI don't recomend a scenenode
21:33.14JeffMdo you understand what they do?
21:33.51KaadmYkinda now
21:33.55KaadmYlooking through it
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21:34.42JeffMyou don't want it to cull for you
21:35.11JeffMthere is a special place for rendering "background stuff" and that's what grass is, it's in the same category as rain
21:36.13KaadmYokay
21:36.30KaadmYwhere's the file list/list of files that have to be compiled?
21:36.54KaadmYhow should i add a custom file(src/bzflag/GrassRenderer.cxx(and .h)
21:37.52JeffMdepends on what OS /IDE you use
21:37.58KaadmYlinux, command line
21:38.13JeffMthen that's part of the makefile that's generated by config and automake
21:38.29JeffMyou'll also need to add them to the windows and OSX projects
21:38.39KaadmYso.. re-running automake and configure should work?
21:39.03JeffMI belive you have to add entries into the automake files
21:39.13JeffMbut it's been quite a long time since I've done that
21:39.21JeffMdid you read the linux and devinfo files?
21:39.29KaadmYsome
21:39.33KaadmYdidn't read them completely
21:39.35JeffMwhy not all?
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21:40.15blast007you modify the Makefile.am files to add your additional files, then run ./autogen.sh and ./configure again, and make
21:40.27KaadmYthanks blast007
21:42.57KaadmYand which files would i have to change for mac/win?
21:44.06KaadmYi think i found it, but i have no idea what to change, and if it'll still work afterwards
21:44.58KaadmYchanges some files
21:45.30JeffMshotgun development
21:45.58KaadmYi'll change what files i *think* i need
21:46.07KaadmYso it likely won't compile on win/mac
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21:47.13JeffMdo people still routinely jack up the windows build?
21:47.25KaadmYi have no idea how the Xcode stuff works
21:49.04KaadmYeach file seems to have a checksum or something
21:49.15KaadmYso i'll just leave that where it is
21:49.17blast007a UUID
21:49.30blast007the Xcode stuff is "special"
21:51.16KaadmYpointedly stays far away from Xcode stuff
21:51.59JeffMOSX still the #2 client platform?
21:52.43blast007linux and mac are pretty close, iirc
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22:01.18KaadmYyay grass works now
22:01.32KaadmYit's now seperated from the main SceneRenderer
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22:32.33KaadmYwhat's your opinions on 3d grass fading out when burrowed
22:32.34KaadmY?
22:44.51blast007You've grabbed the Lawn Mower flag.
22:46.23KaadmY._.
22:47.08KaadmY"The LM flags allows you to clear the view of burrowed teammates' tanks by driving over them. Be wary of teamkilling!"
23:31.56the_maplol blast007
23:36.24KaadmYyeehaw
23:36.30KaadmYgrass is now depth sorted
23:37.55the_mapwonders why you would need to depth sort grass
23:39.18Void7because it looks ugly
23:39.24Void7sorting it makes it look uglier
23:39.28Void7so everybody will disable it
23:39.33the_mapthat's not nice
23:42.33Void7it hinders gameplay to an unplayable extent
23:42.37Void7burrowing is useless!
23:42.45Void7you can't even see the flags!
23:42.59KaadmYVoid7: i make the grass transparent while burrowed
23:43.01KaadmYso ur wrong
23:43.02Void7and the blending out looks ugly anyway
23:43.04KaadmYagin
23:44.49the_mapif the grass would theoretically block the view of anyone with BU, it's probably too tall anyway, imho
23:45.27blast007Earn BZBucks by mowing the lawn!
23:45.45KaadmYthe_map: 1.4m tall
23:45.52KaadmYbelow the camera height driving normally
23:46.01KaadmYcamera is ~1.6 iirc
23:46.18Void7KaadmY: KaadmY...
23:46.24blast007that's pretty tall grass...
23:46.27the_mapthere's no way I would use grass it it was anywhere near that tall
23:46.57blast007does it grow slowly over time?  could be a new game style
23:47.21the_mapnot that grass isn't a good idea, but that's too tall and would distract from driving, and could be an issue for players trying to calculate jumps
23:47.23Void7"New gamemode: LAWNMOWER! Grab the steamroller flags up ahead and BURN THAT GRASS!!"
23:47.32blast007no, the Watch Grass Grow game mode
23:48.18blast007you got a screenshot of this?
23:48.33KaadmYblast007: putting screens on forum in a sec
23:53.13KaadmYhttps://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19242&p=172212
23:53.18KaadmY3d grass, ahoy!
23:54.55blast007is that grass from a minecraft texture pack?
23:55.28KaadmYbope
23:55.29KaadmYnope*
23:55.40Void7whats a bope
23:55.41KaadmYCC0: http://opengameart.org/content/grass-2-0
23:55.57blast007I'd be worried the tank treads would get tore up on all those pixels
23:56.08the_mapthe grass looks cool, but is a bit tall and sparse imho
23:57.02blast007did you reduce the texture dimensions for the one in the screenshot?  the one on the site looks much better
23:57.14KaadmYno
23:57.17KaadmYsame image
23:57.33KaadmYmaybe aniso filter?
23:57.36blast007why does it look so pixelated?
23:57.37KaadmYi had it on 4x
23:57.39KaadmYno idea
23:58.19blast007ah, it's being scaled down by half
23:58.21KaadmYincludes a persistant slider in the menu
23:58.29blast007BZFlag limits to 1024 pixels, and this one is 2048
23:58.36KaadmYah
23:58.40KaadmYnope
23:58.45KaadmYi downscaled to 512
23:58.55blast007even worse :)
23:58.58KaadmYand changed colors a bit
23:59.08KaadmYeven at 512 i can notice slight loading time delays
23:59.19KaadmYbz has what, 3 images loaded in every map?
23:59.30blast007more than 3
23:59.42KaadmY5?
23:59.46blast007there's tank textures and multiple kinds of shot textures

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