| 00:53.40 | *** join/#bzflag infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 00:53.40 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || http://ohloh.net/p/bzflag || https://wiki.bzflag.org/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://infobot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || 2.4.4-RC2 https://goo.gl/KNuYQF |
| 00:53.40 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 00:57.38 | kaadmy | i'm using the MaxWaitTime variable right now |
| 00:58.36 | kaadmy | was the bz_setMaxWaitTime function removed because you're not supposed to use it? |
| 01:06.11 | *** join/#bzflag Flak (~Flak@2001:558:6030:27:cdbc:d363:dd9e:f5c3) |
| 01:31.58 | blast007 | it was removed because it was replaced |
| 01:37.42 | kaadmy | with the variable? |
| 01:37.51 | blast007 | yes |
| 01:40.13 | kaadmy | seems strange |
| 01:40.28 | kaadmy | because the function just changes that variable anyway? |
| 02:05.01 | *** join/#bzflag Flak (~Flak@2001:558:6030:27:cdbc:d363:dd9e:f5c3) |
| 02:10.35 | blast007 | bz_setMaxWaitTime set a global variable that bzfs used and could only reduce it. MaxWaitTime can be increased or decresed, and bzfs will use the smallest value from all the loaded plugins (which means a plugin that had a very small MaxWaitTime and gets unloaded will no longer be dropping the idle time down) |
| 02:25.46 | kaadmy | aj |
| 02:25.49 | kaadmy | ah* |
| 02:26.14 | kaadmy | kinda sad looking at the bzflag 2.99/3.0 discussions |
| 02:28.26 | blast007 | why? |
| 02:29.29 | kaadmy | most of the eyecandy stuff/api stuff never got implemented after 2.99 afaik |
| 02:30.05 | kaadmy | why was 2.99 scrapped and moved to 2.0? |
| 02:32.29 | blast007 | it had a lot of really bad bugs that weren't detected at the time (and where things that didn't start to affect anything until you played on a server for a while) and it suffered from feature creep |
| 02:33.19 | blast007 | we were working on 2.1 (targeting a release as 2.2), but then it became so big we thought it was worthy of "3.0", so we made it 2.99.x |
| 02:37.01 | blast007 | so we decided we needed to stop trying to finish 2.99.x, and we went back to 2.0 as a base, backported some low risk things from 2.99.x (and improved some 2.99.x features), and got a release out |
| 02:38.06 | blast007 | 2.4.0 was one of (if not *the*) first releases where we actually had a proper plan, with task assignments and people managing the progress |
| 02:38.12 | kaadmy | ah |
| 02:39.09 | kaadmy | i'm looking now; i found a forum thread where someone added particles in-game. would it be possible to implement this again? |
| 02:39.57 | blast007 | why wouldn't it be possible? :) |
| 02:40.25 | kaadmy | that's what i'm curious about |
| 02:40.37 | blast007 | is it a priority? no |
| 02:40.55 | blast007 | and that might have been something done with lua |
| 02:41.33 | kaadmy | it could be added and existed 6 years ago |
| 02:42.09 | kaadmy | should i make a pull request on the bzflag-dev branch on github? |
| 02:42.19 | blast007 | for what? |
| 02:42.24 | kaadmy | parti les |
| 02:42.28 | kaadmy | particles* |
| 02:42.38 | blast007 | what would that be useful for? |
| 02:42.46 | kaadmy | eyecandy ;) |
| 02:43.05 | blast007 | are the tanks gonna fart out glitter as they drive? |
| 02:43.23 | kaadmy | rainbows for rabbits, yes :D |
| 02:43.35 | blast007 | I'd say no on that |
| 02:43.42 | kaadmy | but i don't see any good reason not to have them |
| 02:43.56 | kaadmy | ^ particles, not glitter rainbows |
| 02:44.07 | blast007 | I don't see a need for them |
| 02:44.41 | kaadmy | there's likely plenty of players that would like them |
| 02:45.52 | Flak | not me |
| 02:45.58 | kaadmy | i'm also curious if i can add more eyecandy-type effects |
| 02:46.15 | kaadmy | and higher-poly tank models :) |
| 02:46.30 | Flak | oh no |
| 02:46.37 | kaadmy | what |
| 02:47.03 | Flak | the tanks look fine |
| 02:47.13 | kaadmy | ok |
| 02:47.33 | kaadmy | but having the models hardcoded becomes a nightmare for changing |
| 02:48.00 | kaadmy | does bzflag have a .obj model parser built in? |
| 02:48.31 | Flak | the tanks could be changed to an .stl file |
| 02:49.00 | kaadmy | ok |
| 02:49.09 | Flak | then the models wouldn't need to be hard coded |
| 02:49.11 | blast007 | no |
| 02:49.17 | kaadmy | <JeffM> that is on the roadmap for 2.4.2 or 2.4.4 |
| 02:49.24 | kaadmy | ^ for particles |
| 02:51.05 | blast007 | well it's not |
| 02:52.21 | kaadmy | that was in 2011 |
| 02:52.21 | kaadmy | is anything similar going to implemented amytime soon? |
| 02:52.31 | Flak | better not |
| 02:52.48 | blast007 | no |
| 02:53.06 | Flak | thats good news |
| 02:53.09 | kaadmy | no, for gameplay reasons, or logical reasons |
| 02:53.26 | kaadmy | or implementation reasons |
| 02:53.39 | blast007 | no because that's a waste of time and resources at this point for little to no gain |
| 02:54.14 | kaadmy | if someone else implemented it(me) would it be ok? |
| 02:54.21 | blast007 | nope |
| 02:54.32 | kaadmy | oh :( |
| 02:54.41 | blast007 | this isn't a free-for-all anymore |
| 02:54.57 | Flak | thats nice to hear |
| 02:55.06 | blast007 | we're going to at least try to have defined goals for each release now |
| 02:55.26 | blast007 | we don't need another 1.8 or 2.99.x (both of which were never released) |
| 02:55.37 | Flak | agreed |
| 02:57.00 | blast007 | to put it into perspective, 2.0.0 came out in 2005. 2.4.0 came out in 2011, and I think we put about a year into the release of 2.4.0. So those other years were spent making some minor (and not so minor) changes to 2.0, and working on 2.1/2.99 |
| 02:57.16 | blast007 | that's a long time to go without a new major release |
| 02:58.08 | blast007 | there are still a lot of cool things we'd like to pull from 2.99 though |
| 02:59.23 | Flak | that would be nice to see |
| 02:59.38 | kaadmy | 2.99 had a lot of neat features that weren't kept in 2.4 |
| 03:01.34 | blast007 | yes, we had to pick the low risk ones so we could get a new release out |
| 03:17.42 | kaadmy | and in the last 2 years bzflag has basically lost it's whole casual playerbase |
| 03:18.00 | kaadmy | about then only players now are league players |
| 03:18.16 | blast007 | that's been in a decline since the 1.7 days |
| 03:18.30 | kaadmy | but not this bad afaik |
| 03:18.34 | blast007 | back then, we typically had 100 players on most times |
| 03:18.47 | kaadmy | almost everyone's left since around 2013 |
| 03:20.08 | blast007 | right, so let's not spend time adding particles and focus on the real issues with the game :) |
| 03:20.23 | kaadmy | like what? |
| 03:20.30 | kaadmy | new ui? |
| 03:21.10 | the_map | like bzflag not working with windows 10 with AMD |
| 03:21.24 | blast007 | 2.4.4 will be fixing a good number of serious bugs, 2.4.6 will be to primarily fix the Windows 10 issues, and then we can look at 2.5/2.6 |
| 03:21.28 | blast007 | https://wiki.bzflag.org/DevelopmentPlans/2.6.0 |
| 03:43.25 | kaadmy | looking at flag ideas |
| 03:43.39 | kaadmy | CS - Cloaked Shot sounds interesting |
| 03:47.09 | Constitution | we need fewer features that depend on trusting the client for a fair game, not more of them |
| 04:11.50 | Constitution | ah ha...https://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8308 |
| 04:11.55 | Constitution | been looking for that |
| 04:16.37 | Constitution | https://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=7274 shows that trepan had some partical stuff working as early as 2006 |
| 04:17.44 | kaadmy | the images aren't working for me |
| 04:19.09 | Constitution | a few of them do... keep clicking |
| 04:19.46 | Constitution | http://trepan.bzflag.bz/noshow/varied_fountain.jpg |
| 04:20.20 | the_map | oh wow |
| 04:20.46 | kaadmy | wow |
| 04:20.50 | kaadmy | particles? |
| 04:21.40 | Constitution | er yeah, *particle (in mine) :P |
| 04:39.53 | kaadmy | what's a low MaxWaitTime? 0.1 seconds |
| 04:39.58 | kaadmy | ?* |
| 04:40.36 | the_map | depends on how patient you are ;) |
| 04:50.47 | kaadmy | is there a sane limit? |
| 04:51.13 | kaadmy | like 0.0001 would be stupid |
| 04:54.58 | Constitution | there is info somewhere about the typical frequency of the server loop, based on the number of players... can't remember where, though |
| 04:55.29 | kaadmy | i tried logging it every tick, it's about 1 per secong |
| 04:55.35 | kaadmy | second* |
| 04:56.12 | kaadmy | but varies a lot, if theres no players, about 5+ sec |
| 04:59.33 | Constitution | search for "waitTime" in bzfs.cxx |
| 04:59.57 | blast007 | it's slower when there are no players joined/alive |
| 05:00.21 | blast007 | no players means it can sit idle without causing issues |
| 06:26.45 | *** join/#bzflag Bome_Sall (~Bome_Sall@host-174-45-64-237.bzm-mt.client.bresnan.net) |
| 06:26.48 | Bome_Sall | hello |
| 06:27.16 | *** join/#bzflag sirquine (~sirquine@c-67-162-133-17.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 06:27.37 | Bome_Sall | sirquine: do you want to join me |
| 06:27.39 | Bome_Sall | on an adventure |
| 06:27.41 | Bome_Sall | to a cool irc room |
| 06:27.44 | Bome_Sall | to see if its still up |
| 06:27.49 | sirquine | WHAT IRC ROOM |
| 06:27.58 | sirquine | kierra is probably still active-ish |
| 06:27.59 | Bome_Sall | #sexylosers |
| 06:28.05 | sirquine | (let's see if the highlight does anything) |
| 06:30.50 | *** join/#bzflag BZnotify (~BZnotify@192.30.252.40) |
| 06:30.50 | BZnotify | [13bzflag] 15macsforme pushed 2 new commits to 062.4: 02https://github.com/BZFlag-Dev/bzflag/compare/f8b7240b06fb...a15d81135c97 |
| 06:30.50 | BZnotify | 13bzflag/062.4 14e997587 15Joshua Bodine: Updated a few Xcode project settings to the recommended values. |
| 06:30.50 | BZnotify | 13bzflag/062.4 14a15d811 15Joshua Bodine: Since the SDL team didn't fix https://bugzilla.libsdl.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3146 before releasing SDL 2.0.4, we must now include a workaround for that issue.... |
| 06:30.50 | *** part/#bzflag BZnotify (~BZnotify@192.30.252.40) |
| 06:32.17 | *** part/#bzflag Bome_Sall (~Bome_Sall@host-174-45-64-237.bzm-mt.client.bresnan.net) |
| 06:33.56 | *** part/#bzflag sirquine (~sirquine@c-67-162-133-17.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 06:41.32 | the_map | ...I don't even want to know |
| 07:39.07 | *** join/#bzflag valera_rozuvan (~Valera@193.105.216.6) |
| 10:15.49 | *** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (~I_Died_On@unaffiliated/idiedonce/x-1828535) |
| 11:08.32 | *** join/#bzflag meeba (~lamer@c-73-14-146-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 12:26.40 | *** join/#bzflag valera_rozuvan (~Valera@193.105.216.6) |
| 12:47.30 | kierra | Nor I.... |
| 12:49.14 | kierra | Sexy losers indeed...poor guy probably fits the bill |
| 13:41.10 | *** join/#bzflag zuii (~akos@BC06BF93.catv.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 15:07.18 | *** join/#bzflag kaadmy (uid135503@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ahsqsjbkjssphcet) |
| 15:38.38 | *** join/#bzflag alezakos (~kongr45gp@bzflag/developer/alezakos) |
| 16:45.40 | *** join/#bzflag Flak (~Flak@2001:558:6030:27:cdbc:d363:dd9e:f5c3) |
| 16:53.43 | *** join/#bzflag hansel1 (~hansel@ip58867478.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 18:28.24 | *** join/#bzflag valera_rozuvan (~Valera@176.104.51.77) |
| 18:44.10 | *** join/#bzflag sanandresm (~andres@181.49.254.102) |
| 19:20.16 | Flak | I think that there could be a slight improvement in the wiki |
| 19:22.21 | kaadmy | only meshes can be "tint"ed in groups :( |
| 19:22.29 | kaadmy | boxes and pyramids don't allow tinting |
| 19:22.57 | Flak | in this area |
| 19:23.01 | Flak | https://wiki.bzflag.org/Getting_Started |
| 19:24.16 | Flak | specifically over here |
| 19:24.24 | Flak | https://wiki.bzflag.org/File:JoinGame.png |
| 19:25.09 | Flak | the part known as email does not currently appear on bzflag |
| 19:25.29 | kaadmy | yeah |
| 19:25.32 | Flak | it appears as "motto" |
| 19:25.40 | kaadmy | 2.0.9 the screenshot is i think |
| 19:25.51 | Flak | would be a slight change |
| 19:26.01 | Flak | but a nice one i think |
| 19:26.04 | kaadmy | yes |
| 19:26.45 | blast007 | I'd want to make some actual documentation and have that as part of the main website, not the wiki |
| 19:27.00 | Flak | oh |
| 19:27.06 | Flak | smart idea |
| 19:27.29 | Flak | html or pdf? |
| 19:28.54 | Flak | the documentation |
| 19:32.25 | Flak | it could look something like this |
| 19:32.47 | Flak | https://ia601707.us.archive.org/31/items/Battlezone_1983_Atari/Battlezone_1983_Atari_text.pdf |
| 19:36.02 | Flak | not sure if something like this would work if there would be some improvements? |
| 20:23.20 | blast007 | html |
| 20:24.08 | blast007 | why would we do that? |
| 20:27.49 | Flak | it would be a guide book |
| 20:33.36 | Flak | not sure if anyone would go for it |
| 20:34.51 | Flak | but was a thought |
| 20:38.34 | blast007 | it's going to be documentation on the main website |
| 20:40.49 | Flak | ah now i get it |
| 20:42.18 | Flak | I've seen different ways on how to put documentation on a website |
| 21:15.24 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker) |
| 21:15.24 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 21:21.29 | *** join/#bzflag sanandresm (~andres@181.48.26.203) |
| 21:31.54 | op90- | Use markdown. Then it is easy to translate to pdf / html / ebooks / etc |
| 21:32.28 | Flak | that could work |
| 21:32.58 | op90- | easy to maintain too |
| 21:33.13 | Flak | agreed |
| 21:33.44 | op90- | You drive a mean tank btw. Very impressive. |
| 21:34.46 | Flak | thanks |
| 21:34.57 | Flak | you too |
| 21:35.37 | op90- | :) not quite. But am getting better. |
| 21:36.04 | kierra | the question is....who tks the best :D |
| 21:36.14 | Flak | oh no |
| 21:36.23 | blast007 | me |
| 21:36.33 | kierra | no way! blast007 |
| 21:36.37 | blast007 | that's why they don't let me play anymore :( |
| 21:36.57 | Flak | well i tend to tk all my teamates |
| 21:37.09 | Flak | when i'm in rogue |
| 21:37.14 | kierra | i do it with pizazz! |
| 21:37.21 | Flak | yay |
| 21:37.24 | blast007 | Flak: they you don't have teammates :P |
| 21:37.40 | kierra | pizzazz* |
| 21:37.41 | Flak | so true blast007 |
| 21:38.18 | Flak | i'm getting hungry for some pizzazz |
| 21:38.32 | blast007 | as for the main site, I intend to redo it with a static site builder. There's nothing on it that really *needs* to be dynamic as far as content. |
| 21:39.05 | op90- | More secure too |
| 21:39.06 | blast007 | and phrozn, for instance, supports Twig, LESS, Markdown, and Textile: http://phrozn.info/en/documentation/processors/ |
| 21:39.20 | blast007 | well, security isn't really the concern there |
| 21:39.23 | blast007 | speed is though |
| 21:39.36 | blast007 | the main entry point to the site should be snappy |
| 21:39.45 | Flak | agreed |
| 21:40.06 | op90- | Would be nast though if you site starts severing mallware |
| 21:40.12 | op90- | (nasty) |
| 21:40.35 | Flak | but it should be taken into account that the site security is an important isssue |
| 21:40.43 | blast007 | having a dynamic site doesn't automatically mean it's vulnerable to some exploit |
| 21:41.05 | op90- | True. But is does mean a bigger attach surface |
| 21:41.23 | blast007 | Flak: I never said it's not important, just that it isn't the concern there |
| 21:41.55 | Flak | i would have some concern |
| 21:42.12 | blast007 | Flak: regarding the reason for moving to a static site, I mean |
| 21:42.27 | Flak | ah |
| 21:42.34 | blast007 | there's still gonna be plenty of dynamic sites associated with BZFlag |
| 21:42.44 | Flak | thats good |
| 21:46.16 | op90- | I've used http://docs.getpelican.com/ before, is pretty nice |
| 22:59.44 | kaadmy | um.. what's this config variable do? "set startcode efibbbabdbbaa" |
| 22:59.56 | kaadmy | seems silly to me, doesn't seem to do anything |
| 23:02.10 | blast007 | it does do stuff |
| 23:02.23 | blast007 | it's used to store the option on the Start Server menu |
| 23:02.27 | blast007 | options* |
| 23:02.43 | kaadmy | ah |
| 23:02.57 | kaadmy | flags/options? |
| 23:04.05 | blast007 | look in the Start Server menu and you'll see |
| 23:04.36 | kaadmy | ah |
| 23:04.44 | kaadmy | shouldn't it be called something related, then? |
| 23:05.00 | kaadmy | startcode could be something like serverstartflags |
| 23:05.56 | kaadmy | and efibbbabdbbaa just sounds strange |
| 23:06.23 | blast007 | it's the codeified data from the Start Server menu, seems to fit well enough |
| 23:06.31 | blast007 | it's not supposed to be human readable |
| 23:10.40 | kaadmy | ok |
| 23:15.09 | blast007 | basically, 'a' is the first choice, 'b' is the second choice, and so on, and the first character is for the first option, second character for the second option |
| 23:16.32 | kaadmy | that's what i thought |
| 23:16.57 | kaadmy | so "a" and "b" are toggles, and the ones that go higher are sliders? |
| 23:17.03 | kaadmy | or multiple choice? |
| 23:18.44 | blast007 | we don't have "toggles" or "sliders" in our menu system, just multiple choice |
| 23:19.08 | kaadmy | just chooses between a range of numbers? |
| 23:19.36 | blast007 | the input is limited to text and multiple choice |
| 23:39.46 | *** join/#bzflag zuii (~akos@BC06BF93.catv.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 23:45.24 | kaadmy | can the bzw "group" tag be used inside a "define" tag? |
| 23:45.39 | kaadmy | or handle nested/sub groups? |
