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| 00:36.07 | Flak | anyone know wheather time stamps are going to be implemented? |
| 00:36.40 | Flak | (in bzflag) |
| 00:43.49 | *** join/#bzflag zuii (~akos@BC06BF93.catv.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 00:52.08 | Flak | or when? |
| 00:54.03 | blast007 | I tried to check when, but timestamps aren't implemented yet, so I couldn't. |
| 00:55.03 | allejo | ~blast007++ |
| 00:55.18 | kierra | lol |
| 00:56.56 | Flak | ah makes sense |
| 01:00.19 | Flak | this feature could attract more people to bzflag |
| 01:02.30 | Flak | just would need a good PR campaign |
| 01:03.33 | allejo | i'm sure it is |
| 01:04.20 | blast007 | Flak: are you being serious? |
| 01:04.26 | blast007 | because I hope not |
| 01:07.20 | BulletCatcher | Message timestamps are a benefit to observers, not active players. |
| 01:07.48 | BulletCatcher | Which type of player do you think we are more insterested in making an effort to attract? |
| 01:24.32 | Flak | am i being serious with a good PR campaign? |
| 01:24.35 | Flak | yes |
| 01:24.53 | Flak | players |
| 01:25.03 | blast007 | "this feature could attract more people to bzflag" that part |
| 01:25.20 | Flak | but frequently many people stay in obs |
| 01:25.22 | blast007 | you're saying that chat timestamps could attract players to BZFlag? |
| 01:25.34 | Flak | to wait for a player to come |
| 01:26.22 | Flak | since there is no way to tell wheather a player came in a minute or an hour ago |
| 01:26.55 | blast007 | and why would that matter? |
| 01:27.15 | Flak | lets say for example |
| 01:27.26 | Flak | a player joins a league |
| 01:27.54 | Flak | and they stay in obs to wait for players for fm |
| 01:28.28 | Flak | sometimes a player may come and pause |
| 01:28.55 | Flak | and wait for them to go out of obs |
| 01:30.09 | Flak | but since we have no way to tell wheather a comment has been made an hour or a minute ago |
| 01:30.37 | Flak | since many obs are afk |
| 01:31.49 | Flak | could add some help before matches if time stamps were implemented |
| 01:32.27 | allejo | is that pull request yours, Flak? |
| 01:32.33 | Flak | no |
| 01:32.47 | Flak | i'm not in github yet |
| 01:33.05 | Flak | have a sourceforge account |
| 01:33.45 | BulletCatcher | I assume op90- provided the pull request. |
| 01:33.51 | BulletCatcher | Although predictions about the future are notoriously unreliable, it is likely to be accepted after a little improvement. |
| 01:33.54 | Flak | i think so |
| 01:34.49 | Flak | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:45.47 | op90- | For those interested; improvement to the pull request for chat timestamps is completed. |
| 18:10.38 | blast007 | I still need to look a bit closer at our TimeKeeper class to see how we should modify it so we can just pull a time or date out |
| 18:50.45 | op90- | bast007: you could have an parameter to TimeKeeper::timestamp to select date data+time or time |
| 18:51.03 | op90- | (data<-date) |
| 18:53.14 | blast007 | that was my initial thought, yeah, just wanted to look at it more closely first |
| 18:54.52 | op90- | OK. I'll continue working on bzworkbench |
| 18:55.51 | *** join/#bzflag alpha1-2 (~alpha1@host30.190-138-236.telecom.net.ar) |
| 18:56.33 | op90- | I have something that works; (Compiles again, and it can do basic edits and save a map) |
| 18:57.39 | op90- | Can make a pull request for that too. Or I can revive more functionality and make a pull request later. |
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| 18:58.05 | blast007 | I think it'd be worth one for "make it work" |
| 18:59.33 | op90- | Yeah, agree. It gives a more profesional impressions if project actually compile. Will make one. |
| 19:01.02 | alpha1-2 | About UDP packages (unfinished talk), I don't understand very well. For example, to shoot you use UDP, right?, from the client to server. And the server doesn't send UDP packages to the clients? (excuse my ignorance about the code; not a BZ developer) |
| 19:05.28 | blast007 | alpha1-2: UDP is used in both directions |
| 19:06.03 | blast007 | (but there are also fallbacks to sending it over TCP still in the code) |
| 19:07.18 | alpha1-2 | ah, then that player which only one direction UDP ('udp' w/o '+') was able to play because of that? |
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| 19:07.37 | blast007 | We use TCP for most critical messages that need to get there (say, flag grabs/drops, joins, etc), and UDP for non-critical, time sensitive messages (player updates, shot messages, though shots should probably be critical...). |
| 19:10.10 | alpha1-2 | also, sometimes players are kicked cause of 'not UDP, check your configuration' kind of message. Does this mean not having UDP at all? (I never checked if on these very rare cases there are any 'udp' in the /playerlist output) |
| 19:14.51 | alpha1-2 | with only one direction* |
| 19:23.20 | blast007 | that message is for not having outbound UDP, probably |
| 19:23.50 | blast007 | happens when the server receives a shot message over TCP |
| 19:26.46 | blast007 | Eventually we'd probably move to a completely UDP network library, like RakNet or ENet. Then reliable delivery would be handled by the library (using lightweight headers at the application layer of the network model) instead of using TCP. |
| 19:29.50 | alpha1-2 | ah nice. Well, then, to be researched eventually for me. At least, that player seemed not to be cheating. Thanks |
| 19:29.53 | blast007 | (though the problem with RakNet right now is that it's not being worked on and has some critical bugs) |
| 19:30.46 | blast007 | why would you assume cheating? it's a network issue |
| 19:33.02 | blast007 | some antivirus software, for instance, classify BZFlag as a "web browser" (since we hit the MOTD via HTTP) and then block all/some UDP access to the game (because web browsers didn't previously use UDP, though they can now for WebRTC and maybe other things) |
| 19:34.39 | alpha1-2 | ah that can be. It just seemed weird to me that the player only had 'udp' and was able to play normally. Just a little suspicion; I am a new admin |
| 19:39.41 | alpha1-2 | op90-, nice timestamps! I desired it since I save lots of chats/console outputs. Have a look at my logconverter script; it is useful both for admins/ops and players; tho, I have to check/upgrade it after color model was set to RGB lately: https://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18559 |
| 19:45.54 | alpha1-2 | (yahoo, near 5000 views!) |
| 19:46.26 | blast007 | probably search bots ;) |
| 19:46.45 | alpha1-2 | wait, and the other threads? :D |
| 19:47.40 | alpha1-2 | (or maybe search bots are more interested in my thread :P) |
| 19:48.24 | op90- | alpha1-2: Yup. Timestamps are very useful. And for players too. |
| 19:48.26 | alpha1-2 | (and I can assure it's not me) |
| 19:49.09 | blast007 | alpha1-2: because it's a thread you've linked here before, which also gets indexed, so they follow the link |
| 19:50.26 | alpha1-2 | ah, it can be. Well, but I still have hope that people like it :) |
| 19:50.35 | blast007 | :) |
| 19:50.42 | op90- | alpha1-2: nifty script. Did not know libreoffice could be useful from the command line |
| 19:53.13 | alpha1-2 | oh, thanks! Yes, very powerful suite. The best I could find to create PDFs. The output nowadays will be mostly in grey scale; but the original log file is kept, then you will be able to convert it later with the new version |
| 19:55.16 | alpha1-2 | in a firts thought, I think I would have to either ask the ANSIfilter author to use RGB now or to find a better program (which is the heart of the script) |
| 19:55.23 | alpha1-2 | first* |
| 19:57.44 | alpha1-2 | some people will 'hate' me here, but I still am not too sure RGB was the best option. I should research about it, tho. Don't worry, 'some people' :) |
| 19:58.19 | alpha1-2 | I am still not sure* |
| 19:59.38 | alpha1-2 | I still have hope that people are liking it* |
| 20:02.09 | blast007 | We implemented the ISO-8613-3 standard. What would you have preferred we do? Create and implement a new, proprietary standard for 24-bit RGB color escape sequences? |
| 20:05.20 | alpha1-2 | no, following standards is fine, but I still wonder if really using RGB instead of other tinier system (even the same original ANSI with some brightness variations) would not be better or enough. It's just I like to be detallist |
| 20:06.09 | blast007 | no, because we were already using RGB to define team colors |
| 20:06.09 | alpha1-2 | that ANSI system is standard also, AFAIK |
| 20:06.33 | *** join/#bzflag Flak (~Flak@2001:558:6030:27:cdbc:d363:dd9e:f5c3) |
| 20:07.56 | alpha1-2 | do those RGB colors match exactly with the ANSI ones used in console, maybe? Then, they are not necessary; use ANSI |
| 20:09.31 | Flak | hi all, here is a suggestion for bzflag that may help get more players |
| 20:10.03 | kaadmy | Does anybody have interest in a soccer-like BZFlag plugin? |
| 20:10.12 | Flak | might |
| 20:10.19 | kaadmy | carry a flag from the mid to the enemy base? |
| 20:10.33 | Flak | depends on how it works |
| 20:10.42 | alpha1-2 | In example, if you are designing a computer screen, with million of colors, you will need RGB. But talking of very few colors (team ones), with some possible variations for people with problems in sight, you just ned a tiny system. You will manage less resources also |
| 20:11.32 | Flak | i think that there could be something that would help people preview bzflag |
| 20:11.38 | blast007 | alpha1-2: or just fix ANSIFilter to support ISO-8613-3 |
| 20:11.45 | alpha1-2 | Flak and kaadmy: there was one, talk to brad |
| 20:11.55 | blast007 | then you and everyone who uses ANSIFilter benefits from that new functionality |
| 20:12.23 | Flak | a version of bzflag that runs of a web browser |
| 20:12.35 | blast007 | Flak: so a complete rewrite of the game |
| 20:12.38 | Flak | using javascript |
| 20:12.44 | Flak | not really |
| 20:13.22 | blast007 | yes really |
| 20:13.49 | blast007 | we don't use JavaScript, nor GL that is compatible with WebGL |
| 20:13.56 | alpha1-2 | I am not talking of logconverter, no problem with that, it's secondary. I just wonder for BZ and the best implementation. Maybe I am wrong, but I wonder, I am detallist (and have to research). Not my intention to start a discussion, just made a tiny comment |
| 20:14.26 | *** join/#bzflag valera_rozuvan (~Valera@176.104.51.77) |
| 20:14.27 | Flak | maybe i simple game demo on javascript |
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| 20:14.28 | BZnotify | [13bzworkbench] 15gumpu opened pull request #1: Compile again (06master...06compile_again) 02http://git.io/vzUaW |
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| 20:14.31 | blast007 | alpha1-2: you'll just have to adapt |
| 20:16.10 | alpha1-2 | thanks for your opinon/decision. If I find something really interesting, I will say it again |
| 20:16.38 | Flak | the idea would be to create a demo of bzflag in javascript |
| 20:16.48 | blast007 | Flak: why? |
| 20:17.03 | alpha1-2 | Flak, consider it is a complex game |
| 20:17.26 | blast007 | Flak: I don't think you have any idea about the complexity if what you are suggesting |
| 20:17.27 | alpha1-2 | kind of a simulator |
| 20:17.33 | Flak | i think many people would like to see a demo before they install |
| 20:17.44 | valera_rozuvan | Maybe Flak wants to create it in JavaScript that goes along with Unity 3D game engine ... |
| 20:17.52 | blast007 | Flak: a video can't do that? |
| 20:17.57 | Flak | no not really |
| 20:17.58 | valera_rozuvan | Although it is not really JavaScript what they have in Unity3D ... |
| 20:18.08 | op90- | A go way to get people to play games is to do 'Lets Play Videos' on youtube. |
| 20:18.38 | Flak | valera_rozuvan: i don't think that property is the way to go |
| 20:19.02 | alpha1-2 | yes, I agree, videos are one of the best ways to show a game |
| 20:19.32 | valera_rozuvan | Also a commercial aired on a Friday night football match! |
| 20:20.02 | op90- | It is a very apealing game. I showed it to my daughter (of 10) she was hooked in seconds. |
| 20:20.26 | blast007 | op90-: it does need a lot of work though |
| 20:20.35 | op90- | It is easy to get into to. (But hard to get good at) |
| 20:20.52 | blast007 | lots of little things and lots of not so little things |
| 20:20.58 | op90- | bast007: the video's or the game? |
| 20:21.09 | blast007 | little things like "hey, why is there a mouse cursor in the menu and why can't I click on any of the menu items with it?" |
| 20:21.35 | op90- | Yup. Indeed she did find that confusing. |
| 20:21.44 | kaadmy | what'd be a nice plugin to get my hands wet again? i'm thinking of something that requires teamwork |
| 20:21.52 | blast007 | it's a lot of known stuff like that |
| 20:22.14 | op90- | But a good introduction video can help a lot there |
| 20:22.15 | Flak | the idea is a simple program that shows beginners how to move and turn etc... |
| 20:22.16 | blast007 | kaadmy: there was a soccer map at one point: https://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=16183 |
| 20:22.37 | blast007 | op90-: yeah, a video, better documentation, and more straightforward game, in-game tutorials, etc |
| 20:23.13 | blast007 | basically what 2.6 should try to solve: https://wiki.bzflag.org/DevelopmentPlans/2.6.0 |
| 20:23.29 | kaadmy | that map sounds neat |
| 20:23.38 | blast007 | we shouldn't have to have training for how to use the poll system, for instance, it should be intuitive |
| 20:23.59 | blast007 | so, no "send /vote yes or /vote no as chat", but "Press F1 for yes, F2 for no" |
| 20:24.16 | Flak | that would be nice |
| 20:28.43 | kaadmy | hmm, payload like tf2 would be fun |
| 20:32.50 | blast007 | payload? |
| 20:34.08 | blast007 | "Payload is a game mode in which the BLU team must escort a cart full of explosives through a series of checkpoints and into the RED team's base within a certain amount of time." I guess that? ;) |
| 20:35.52 | blast007 | That should be pretty easy to code for. The plugin API can create custom map objects where you can define checkpoints, and it can control the placement of a flag and players (such as putting the flag and the tanks back on/near the last checkpoint) |
| 20:36.11 | kaadmy | yup |
| 20:36.21 | blast007 | though the one-shot kill might be a bit more of an issue |
| 20:36.27 | kaadmy | i'm thinking of carrying a flag past several control points |
| 20:36.35 | kaadmy | and when a point is captures, the flag is returned |
| 20:36.48 | blast007 | dunno how it works exactly in TF2 |
| 20:37.25 | kaadmy | with the BZFS api, is there a way to set a round timelimit? |
| 20:37.54 | kaadmy | how the defenders should win will be a problem |
| 20:38.11 | kaadmy | 10 minute timer should be enough |
| 20:38.18 | blast007 | yes, you can set a time limit |
| 20:38.32 | blast007 | I'm not sure if a rejoin is necessary afterwards still |
| 20:38.52 | kaadmy | I could have a custom timelimit, and just kill everyone and reset score |
| 20:39.15 | kaadmy | no way to display the time though, maybe print the time remaining in chat every minute? |
| 20:40.42 | Flak | timestamps |
| 20:40.57 | blast007 | Flak: what about timestamps? |
| 20:41.25 | Flak | kaadmy said about having a time limit |
| 20:41.26 | blast007 | kaadmy: with 2.99.x, it was possible to have dynamic text objects in the 3D world :) |
| 20:41.38 | blast007 | Flak: right, but what are you referring to? |
| 20:42.44 | Flak | then each time an action is done the timestamps would allow players to know wheather or not that they still have time |
| 20:43.20 | blast007 | Flak: so what he was already saying then? |
| 20:44.07 | kaadmy | <kaadmy> no way to display the time though, maybe print the time remaining in chat every minute? |
| 20:44.27 | Flak | to print the time every minute or so |
| 20:45.10 | blast007 | Flak: I don't understand what you're saying is any different than what kaadmy said |
| 20:45.24 | blast007 | just because you use a different word doesn't make it different |
| 20:46.51 | Flak | there is a slight difference |
| 20:47.36 | Flak | kaadmy's is based on printing the time every minute or so |
| 20:48.03 | blast007 | how else would you do it? |
| 20:48.12 | Flak | the one i'm suggesting is based on actions |
| 20:48.25 | Flak | example |
| 20:48.38 | blast007 | so all you did was change "when" it did it, not "how" |
| 20:49.04 | Flak | i changed the how |
| 20:49.23 | blast007 | no, it's still sent as a chat message, which is the "how to notify the user" |
| 20:49.27 | blast007 | you changed the when |
| 20:49.57 | kaadmy | um, how do you compile plugins on linux? |
| 20:49.57 | Flak | the user provides the actions |
| 20:50.13 | kaadmy | there's only the project files from what i can see |
| 20:50.21 | Flak | then when an action is done |
| 20:50.28 | Flak | the time appears |
| 20:50.48 | blast007 | right, the "when the time is broadcast" |
| 20:51.01 | Flak | such as reaching a check point |
| 20:51.27 | Flak | then the time would be broadcasted |
| 20:52.27 | Flak | such as "you have now 5 minutes and twenty-five seconds" |
| 20:52.53 | blast007 | kaadmy: you compile them as part of the BZFlag build process, and with the latest 2.4 git there's a --enable-custom-plugins (which takes a comma separated list of custom plugins) or --enable-custom-plugins-file (which takes a file path to a file containing a lit of custom plugins, one per line) |
| 20:53.12 | blast007 | Flak: it would need to be a mix of both ideas, really |
| 20:53.30 | Flak | that would work much better |
| 20:54.17 | blast007 | kaadmy: in the plugins/ directory of the BZFlag source, there is a newplug.sh script that creates a new plugin from the SAMPLE_PLUGIN |
| 20:55.22 | kaadmy | i used the script, works |
| 20:55.26 | kaadmy | no makefile in it tho |
| 20:56.19 | blast007 | should be a Makefile.am though, right? |
| 20:56.22 | kaadmy | yes |
| 20:56.35 | kaadmy | that's for automake? |
| 20:56.55 | blast007 | you need to go through the normal BZFlag build process, as documented in README.Linux, while also using --enable-custom-plugins on ./configure |
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| 22:30.30 | kaadmy | is there a way to force return a flag when dropped with the BZFS api? |
| 22:34.38 | kaadmy | or set a flag so it always returns when dropped? |
| 22:35.29 | brad | returns where? |
| 22:35.47 | brad | are you talking about team flags returning to base? |
| 22:36.00 | brad | or super flags resetting when they are dropped |
| 22:37.03 | kaadmy | super flags |
| 22:37.18 | kaadmy | i want one type of custom flag to always return when dropped |
| 22:42.11 | blast007 | you can probably handle the bz_eFlagDroppedEvent event and check the flag type, and then use bz_moveFlag to move it where you want it, though you might have to reset the flag first, or use some kind of delay |
| 22:43.14 | kaadmy | that's what i'm doing now |
| 22:53.37 | kaadmy | bz_FlagMove doesn't seem to exist |
| 22:53.47 | kaadmy | is that the exact name of the function? |
| 22:55.52 | kaadmy | nevermind, found it |
| 23:11.12 | *** join/#bzflag Flak (~Flak@2001:558:6030:27:cdbc:d363:dd9e:f5c3) |
| 23:25.05 | kaadmy | hmm, running `./configure --enable-custom-plugins=armory; make; bzfs -loadplugin armory` has a warning when running bzfs that it can't find the plugin |
| 23:41.33 | *** join/#bzflag swigg (~Owner@bzflag/player/Swigg) |
| 23:43.35 | BulletCatcher | Try 'src/bzfs/bzfs' instead of just 'bzfs'. |
| 23:46.33 | Constitution | can bzfs even find plugins from within the source tree? |
| 23:50.45 | blast007 | probably not |
| 23:51.10 | blast007 | src/bzfs/bzfs -loadplugin plugins/armory/.libs/armory.so |