| 01:25.18 | *** join/#bzflag detrimental (~james@thief-pool-117-217.mncable.net) |
| 01:36.37 | allejo | if a function in the API is void and I change it to return a value, that would break existing plug-ins compiled plug-ins, right? |
| 01:37.04 | zuii | i dont think so |
| 01:37.31 | allejo | I'd like to change the API countdown commands to return true or false if it was successful instead of them just being void |
| 01:39.28 | zuii | compiled plugins ... yeah |
| 01:44.37 | allejo | yea that's i figured. would creating new functions (e.g. bz_countdownPause(), bz_countdownResume(), etc.) and deprecating the current ones be alright? |
| 01:44.49 | allejo | unless there's a better way of doing it |
| 01:45.24 | Patlabor221 | allejo, oh yeah it will |
| 01:45.27 | Patlabor221 | do NOT do that |
| 01:45.41 | Patlabor221 | yeah new function with a new name |
| 01:46.03 | Patlabor221 | I'd add get funcitons |
| 01:46.23 | Patlabor221 | when would it not be suscessful |
| 01:46.55 | Flash | if the countdown wasn't running? |
| 01:47.20 | Flash | or was already paused? |
| 01:47.25 | allejo | get functions for what? |
| 01:47.41 | allejo | and yea, bz_countdownPause() would return false if there is no countdown or it's already paused |
| 01:48.00 | allejo | instead of having to call bz_isCountdownPaused() etc. |
| 01:48.29 | Flash | seems like syntactic sugar for the API to me |
| 01:50.08 | allejo | yea it would be, but it'd be handy to know if bz_cancelCountdown() failed or what not. especially since the API doesn't throw exceptions |
| 01:50.37 | Flash | "failed" is a loosely defined concept |
| 01:50.42 | Patlabor221 | k |
| 01:50.52 | Patlabor221 | are you going to change the argument list? |
| 01:51.19 | Patlabor221 | if you change the argument list you can keep the same name |
| 01:51.24 | Patlabor221 | if not then yeah you need a new name |
| 01:51.40 | Flash | does the API have C binding or C++? |
| 01:51.45 | Patlabor221 | C |
| 01:51.52 | Patlabor221 | well C and C++ |
| 01:51.53 | Flash | then you can't have overloading |
| 01:51.56 | allejo | i wouldn't be changing the argument list, there's nothing new being added other than a return value |
| 01:51.58 | Patlabor221 | you can do overloads |
| 01:52.03 | allejo | i'd have to rename them |
| 01:52.07 | Flash | then it is C++ |
| 01:52.10 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 01:52.22 | allejo | you can't overload the return type anyways |
| 01:52.29 | Patlabor221 | it's C++ but C style for a lot of it that's what made me initaly respond that way |
| 01:52.35 | Patlabor221 | yeah if it's just return you are boned |
| 01:52.35 | Flash | that was his point, allejo |
| 01:52.48 | Patlabor221 | what are the current function names? |
| 01:53.12 | allejo | bz_<action>Countdown() |
| 01:53.20 | allejo | pause, resume, start, cancel |
| 01:53.28 | Patlabor221 | k |
| 01:53.36 | Patlabor221 | reversing it sounds like a good plan then |
| 01:53.36 | allejo | was thinking of using bz_countdown<action>() for the new ones |
| 01:53.41 | Patlabor221 | yeah that'll be fine |
| 01:54.06 | Patlabor221 | bz_makeWithThe<Action>OfTheCoundown() |
| 01:54.10 | Flash | do we have a verb-noun naming style? |
| 01:54.16 | Patlabor221 | we have no style ;) |
| 01:54.22 | Flash | clearly |
| 01:54.27 | allejo | any specific way to mark them as deprecated? don't think two functions with the same functionality would be good in the long run |
| 01:54.33 | Patlabor221 | with a comment |
| 01:54.37 | Patlabor221 | that's all you can do |
| 01:54.46 | allejo | and update the wiki. will do |
| 01:54.49 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 01:55.40 | allejo | should i put the comment in the header of the .cxx file? or both? |
| 01:55.45 | allejo | or* |
| 01:55.46 | Patlabor221 | header at the last |
| 01:55.48 | Patlabor221 | least |
| 01:56.01 | Patlabor221 | plug-in authors don't have the cxx file |
| 01:56.12 | Patlabor221 | or may not have it |
| 01:56.45 | Patlabor221 | on linux they HAVE it but that's just because our build system is archaic ;) |
| 01:57.07 | Patlabor221 | windows just has the h and an export lib for dynamic linking |
| 01:57.16 | allejo | header file it is |
| 02:07.27 | allejo | would bz_countdownEnd() be an apt replacement for bz_gameOver? |
| 02:07.55 | allejo | i mean, we could try to be consistent with new functions :p |
| 02:08.00 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 02:08.14 | Patlabor221 | game over has little meaning since people are still actualy conencted and playing |
| 02:08.23 | Patlabor221 | it's just that this countdown session has ended |
| 02:08.35 | Patlabor221 | the "reboot on end" has always bugged me |
| 02:08.57 | allejo | it just resets... no? |
| 02:09.10 | Patlabor221 | the server shuts down and relaunches |
| 02:09.16 | Patlabor221 | or at least it used to |
| 02:09.22 | Patlabor221 | hopefuly we've fixed that by now |
| 02:09.39 | Patlabor221 | game over used to be literaly the game server was over |
| 02:09.47 | Patlabor221 | and it'd shut down when the last person left |
| 02:10.03 | allejo | that's... interesting |
| 02:10.12 | Patlabor221 | remember it wasn't designed for internet play |
| 02:10.14 | Patlabor221 | LAN play |
| 02:10.23 | Patlabor221 | the guy hosting could just restart it |
| 02:10.26 | Patlabor221 | super asy |
| 02:10.27 | Patlabor221 | easy |
| 02:10.49 | Patlabor221 | why would you EVER want to play with people around the world? |
| 02:10.58 | Patlabor221 | over an ISDN? |
| 02:11.20 | allejo | people exist in other parts of the world? :O |
| 02:11.28 | Patlabor221 | that is the rumor |
| 02:11.38 | Patlabor221 | we'll see when I go to germany next month |
| 02:12.16 | allejo | don't come back speaking german. i don't want to sound like i'm getting yelled at |
| 02:12.32 | Patlabor221 | I'm only there for like 10 days |
| 02:16.16 | allejo | a lot to do in those 10 days? |
| 02:16.25 | *** mode/#bzflag [-o allejo] by allejo |
| 02:17.23 | Patlabor221 | I will be working for 8 of them |
| 02:17.35 | Patlabor221 | the last 2 days are to see the place before I go home |
| 02:19.09 | allejo | your company's nice enough to give you 2 days off or you requested them? |
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| 02:19.52 | Patlabor221 | I asked to stay longer |
| 02:19.59 | Patlabor221 | I have to pay for the hotel for those 2 days |
| 02:20.07 | Patlabor221 | and they are vacation days |
| 02:20.20 | Patlabor221 | but they didn't mind me pushing the flight back, it was of minor cost change to them |
| 02:20.38 | allejo | was about to ask about the flight, that was nice of them |
| 02:20.43 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 02:20.54 | Patlabor221 | if it would have cost a lot more it may not have been possible |
| 02:21.04 | Patlabor221 | but it's usualy not a big deal to change a day |
| 02:21.27 | Patlabor221 | so really I get a vaction in Germany for the cost of a hotel and meals |
| 02:21.29 | Patlabor221 | not too bad |
| 02:21.47 | allejo | yea not bad at all |
| 02:24.02 | allejo | hehe just noticed this: "void startCountdown ( int delay, float limit, const char *buyWho )" |
| 02:24.07 | allejo | who to buy... |
| 02:24.20 | Patlabor221 | everyone has a price |
| 02:25.39 | allejo | very true |
| 02:25.59 | Patlabor221 | that's how we can make money, offer countdown tokens |
| 02:26.09 | Patlabor221 | 3 for a dollar |
| 02:26.13 | blast007 | "Insert coin" |
| 02:26.18 | Patlabor221 | buy them in packs of 30 |
| 02:26.48 | allejo | can we replace "GAME OVER" with "insert coin?" :p |
| 02:27.00 | Patlabor221 | no |
| 02:27.05 | Patlabor221 | it will break translations ;) |
| 02:27.12 | allejo | aw :( |
| 02:27.13 | blast007 | "Your match will end in 20 seconds. Please deposit $1.75 to continue the match." |
| 02:27.21 | blast007 | we can fix the translations ;) |
| 02:27.36 | Patlabor221 | rednek has no concept of money |
| 02:28.46 | allejo | can the API make calls to itself? i.e. call another API function inside of a function? |
| 02:28.52 | Patlabor221 | sure |
| 02:28.56 | Patlabor221 | we do that all the time |
| 02:28.59 | Patlabor221 | bzfs uses the API |
| 02:29.16 | allejo | oh awesome |
| 02:29.24 | Patlabor221 | the only thing that makes the API an "API" is that we export it on windows |
| 02:29.42 | Patlabor221 | currently leenox don't care |
| 02:29.43 | blast007 | bool iCanHasRecursion() { return iCanHasRecursion(); } |
| 02:29.45 | Patlabor221 | tho I'd like to change that |
| 02:30.42 | allejo | change it to what? |
| 02:30.47 | allejo | lol blast |
| 02:31.05 | Patlabor221 | gcc and llvm can be setup to only allow specific functions to be called by external libraries |
| 02:31.06 | blast007 | so that only the API functions are exported so that plugins can't call internal bzfs functions |
| 02:31.13 | Patlabor221 | I forget what the feature is called |
| 02:31.40 | allejo | and is there a better way to differentiate between bz_isCountDownActive() and bz_isCountDownInProgress()? one of them is the match the other is the countdown to the match - in that order |
| 02:31.42 | blast007 | http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/Visibility |
| 02:31.53 | Patlabor221 | yeah that |
| 02:32.23 | Patlabor221 | allejo, bz_getCountdownProgress, return a value from 0 to 1 |
| 02:32.39 | Patlabor221 | if it's less then zero then no countdown is active |
| 02:32.53 | Patlabor221 | if its' between 0 and 1 you know how far along it is |
| 02:32.56 | allejo | oh that would be nice. would disallow hackish team switches *whistles* |
| 02:33.00 | Patlabor221 | if it's 1 then you know a mathc is over |
| 02:33.05 | blast007 | or have something that requires a signed value with the number of seconds.. if it's negative, it's counting down to the match start? |
| 02:33.12 | blast007 | that returns* |
| 02:33.15 | Patlabor221 | I'd make it a paramaer not seconds |
| 02:33.25 | Patlabor221 | but yeah negative time could work too |
| 02:33.41 | Patlabor221 | but that doesn't tell you if no countdown is started |
| 02:33.46 | Patlabor221 | REALY you should return an enum |
| 02:34.04 | Patlabor221 | eNoMatch, eMatchWaiting, eMatchInProgress, eMatchEnded |
| 02:34.06 | allejo | I was going to say... an enum would be nice at this point. too many values to remember |
| 02:34.08 | Patlabor221 | those are the states bzfs can be in |
| 02:34.43 | Patlabor221 | then you can get the time till match, the current match durration, and the current mathc progress |
| 02:34.46 | blast007 | I wouldn't use the term 'match' though |
| 02:34.49 | Patlabor221 | sure |
| 02:34.51 | Patlabor221 | pick something |
| 02:35.00 | Patlabor221 | Shanglebong |
| 02:35.03 | blast007 | okay. eNoSomething |
| 02:35.15 | Patlabor221 | eNoThingy, eThingyWaiting |
| 02:35.22 | Patlabor221 | really it's a timed play session |
| 02:35.29 | Patlabor221 | commonly used for matches |
| 02:35.34 | allejo | eNoTimedMatch? |
| 02:35.42 | Patlabor221 | countdown doesn't say what it's counting down to |
| 02:35.53 | blast007 | also used for map rotation servers :) |
| 02:36.05 | Patlabor221 | TimedSession |
| 02:36.16 | allejo | TimedGame |
| 02:36.18 | Patlabor221 | then you don't have to say what the session is |
| 02:36.22 | allejo | ah |
| 02:36.24 | Patlabor221 | game imples the game ends |
| 02:36.31 | Patlabor221 | you can use a timed session for a lot of things |
| 02:36.41 | Patlabor221 | "how long people have double points for" |
| 02:36.49 | allejo | hmm |
| 02:36.50 | Patlabor221 | assuming it becomes fully adaptable |
| 02:37.04 | allejo | well blast did bring up a point. the contdown could also be used for rotation servers |
| 02:37.08 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 02:37.16 | Patlabor221 | so that's just one use of a timmed session |
| 02:37.27 | Patlabor221 | a session is the time a map runs before rotation |
| 02:37.41 | allejo | so instead of bz_countdown<action> it'll be bz_timedSession<action>? |
| 02:38.22 | allejo | or would countdownCancel work for that? because it technically is a countdown to the timed session |
| 02:38.36 | Patlabor221 | clearTimedSession |
| 02:38.53 | Patlabor221 | StartTimedSession(delay, durration); |
| 02:39.08 | allejo | that makes it sound like it's ending the current session, no? (at clearTimedSession) |
| 02:39.16 | Patlabor221 | maybe |
| 02:39.27 | Patlabor221 | Cacel then |
| 02:40.02 | Patlabor221 | and if you are in the delay phase, you still cancel it |
| 02:40.06 | Patlabor221 | it just hasn't started yet |
| 02:40.20 | Patlabor221 | same as if you cancel it while it's on |
| 02:40.30 | Patlabor221 | I'd use Cancel to mean "end abnormaly" |
| 02:40.42 | Patlabor221 | and End or Stop to mean "end normaly" |
| 02:40.54 | allejo | but cancel is ended to stop the countdown to the timed session |
| 02:40.56 | Patlabor221 | or Abort instead of cancel |
| 02:41.20 | allejo | so if the countdown is over and the timed session is in progress, would it be a game over? |
| 02:41.20 | Patlabor221 | so you can't cancel it while it's running ether, or is that the same as end? |
| 02:41.38 | allejo | cancel was only intended to stop the countdown to the current timed match |
| 02:41.50 | allejo | so the "start your engines. 10... 9.. etc." |
| 02:42.23 | allejo | bz_startTimedSession(), bz_pauseTimedSession(), bz_resumeTimedSession(), bz_endTimedSession() and bz_cancel |
| 02:42.25 | Patlabor221 | DefineSession<----------Countdown(aka delay)--------->SessionStart<------- Session durration-------->Session end<------ Post Session |
| 02:42.33 | allejo | bz_cancelTimedSessionCountdown() |
| 02:42.46 | Patlabor221 | if you cancel the countdown you also cancel the session |
| 02:42.52 | Patlabor221 | you can be context sensitive based on the time |
| 02:43.12 | Patlabor221 | I'd have 2 events for the session ending |
| 02:43.41 | Patlabor221 | 1) Session Aborted, it means that the seesion was canceld, this means that whatever is checked at the end conditon should not be checked. It's as if the session was never started |
| 02:44.01 | Patlabor221 | 2) Session Ended, this means that the session termindated with a valid end condition and should be checked. |
| 02:44.21 | allejo | yea cancelCountdown only resets the delay and readySetGo |
| 02:44.26 | Patlabor221 | then you can have API calls to cancel (abort) a session, as in some case should prevent the session from running |
| 02:44.49 | Patlabor221 | and also an end function that causes the session to terminate as if it had reached it's time, even if it's early |
| 02:44.56 | Patlabor221 | then "Ending early" is not the same as "canceling" |
| 02:45.18 | Patlabor221 | this way you can have one plugin controll the timing and another determine what happens durrning the session |
| 02:45.28 | Patlabor221 | do all sessions need a "countdown"? |
| 02:45.33 | Patlabor221 | can I start a session RIGHT NOW? |
| 02:45.55 | allejo | if we're defining a session based on a match, then a countdown would be ideal |
| 02:45.58 | Patlabor221 | don't think about what the variables do now, think about what it should do as a concept |
| 02:46.08 | Patlabor221 | but what if a session is an arbitary thing? |
| 02:46.16 | Patlabor221 | should I be prevented from having 0 delay? |
| 02:46.39 | allejo | i guess not |
| 02:46.44 | Patlabor221 | it makes sense that matches would want a pre match delay with a countdown |
| 02:47.09 | Patlabor221 | so maybe we need "bz_beginTimedSession(delay, durration, bUseCountdown)" |
| 02:47.20 | Patlabor221 | then the session starts in delay seconds |
| 02:47.27 | Patlabor221 | and runs for durration seconds |
| 02:47.29 | allejo | so session aborted would bascially cancel any delay (prevent the session from starting) and not trigger the game end event? |
| 02:47.35 | Flash | why the third arg? |
| 02:47.39 | allejo | brb food |
| 02:47.42 | Patlabor221 | what if I dont' want a countdown ;) |
| 02:47.54 | Flash | how long is the countdown? |
| 02:47.56 | Patlabor221 | I dont' want to send out "Session starting in XXX seconds" |
| 02:47.58 | Patlabor221 | the delay |
| 02:48.08 | Flash | if it's 0, just start |
| 02:48.10 | Patlabor221 | I may want a delay but don't want it to be broadcast |
| 02:48.21 | Patlabor221 | no I want to start in 100 seconds but I don't want anyone to kow that |
| 02:48.33 | Flash | that's an interesing thought ... how would that be used? |
| 02:48.35 | blast007 | 'showInitialCountdown' |
| 02:48.48 | Patlabor221 | yeah it's just a flag for "Display the delay time" |
| 02:48.55 | Patlabor221 | it would not be used for matches |
| 02:49.00 | Patlabor221 | but it could be used for other things |
| 02:49.05 | Flash | ok, that makes a bit more sense. |
| 02:49.09 | blast007 | Flash: we don't necesarrily know yet, but that's the great part about an API... people find uses for it once they CAN do something |
| 02:49.17 | Patlabor221 | I think you should be able to register events for start, abort, and end on the session |
| 02:49.28 | Patlabor221 | and maybe give the session a name and a description |
| 02:49.32 | Patlabor221 | and that can be used in the display |
| 02:49.49 | Patlabor221 | then I can write a plugin that starts and stops matches based on web input |
| 02:49.55 | Patlabor221 | and sets the name based on a game type |
| 02:50.09 | Patlabor221 | and then differnet plugins that manage what happens in each match type |
| 02:50.29 | Flash | if the game publishes events like that, and plugins can manipulate the session state, then this particular API may be OBE |
| 02:50.44 | Patlabor221 | OBE? |
| 02:50.51 | Flash | overcome by events |
| 02:50.58 | Patlabor221 | we use a ton of events now |
| 02:51.03 | Patlabor221 | these would not happen very often |
| 02:51.07 | Flash | different events :) |
| 02:51.16 | Patlabor221 | I would use the same type of events as we use now |
| 02:51.22 | Flash | no, I mean OBE |
| 02:51.37 | Patlabor221 | then I have no clue what you are talking about |
| 02:51.54 | Flash | obsolete. irrelevant. passed by on the roadside |
| 02:51.56 | Patlabor221 | but really we are talking about 5 events |
| 02:52.21 | Patlabor221 | and there isn't realy the concept of a session "State" |
| 02:52.27 | Patlabor221 | each plugin woudl have to matintain that |
| 02:52.40 | Patlabor221 | or change bzfs states, like maybe spawn locations |
| 02:52.55 | Patlabor221 | score on kill, etcc. |
| 02:53.02 | Flash | if the events are related to changes in session "state" (start, abort, etc.) then the state should be queryable from the session |
| 02:53.06 | Patlabor221 | it could be cool to make a "double score" plug-in |
| 02:53.19 | Patlabor221 | yeah you should be able to know what phase the countdown is in |
| 02:53.24 | Patlabor221 | sorry the session |
| 02:53.30 | Patlabor221 | with the enum we were talking about |
| 02:53.56 | Flash | the countdown "count" is part of the session state ... a plugin should be able to manipulate that |
| 02:54.07 | Patlabor221 | you mean the delay phase? |
| 02:54.11 | Flash | yes |
| 02:54.42 | Flash | "create session" defines some initial state ... all the arguments previously described |
| 02:54.43 | Patlabor221 | I'd let them pause,resume, start imediately, or abort the entire session |
| 02:55.19 | Patlabor221 | once the session was running in the main phase, you could pause, resume, end, or abort |
| 02:55.34 | Flash | how about increasing or decreasing the delay? |
| 02:55.42 | Patlabor221 | maybe |
| 02:55.48 | Patlabor221 | probably valid |
| 02:56.10 | Patlabor221 | then you'd want to incrase or decrase the durration too in ether pahse |
| 02:56.13 | Flash | but would these be specific API calls, or operations on a "session" object? |
| 02:56.26 | Patlabor221 | API calls, it'd be like our current API |
| 02:56.29 | Flash | "game goes into overtime" |
| 02:56.40 | Patlabor221 | I see no reason to add another API object just for this |
| 02:56.53 | Patlabor221 | and there are issues passing objects around on windows |
| 02:57.10 | Patlabor221 | we don't have different plugins share the same objects now |
| 02:57.29 | Patlabor221 | and we only allow a single session at a time, so a C style funciton list seems to make sense |
| 03:00.11 | Patlabor221 | Time for foods |
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| 03:25.19 | allejo | ._. |
| 03:25.29 | allejo | so... about those function names |
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| 04:41.17 | alcatraz | morning |
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| 05:40.50 | alcatraz | Happy holidays everyone! |
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| 21:11.21 | kierra | yay blast007...it works! |
| 21:59.20 | *** join/#bzflag Bhoren (~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:21:612e:e474:3b2e:e049) |
| 21:59.50 | *** join/#bzflag Bhoren (~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:21:612e:e474:3b2e:e049) |
| 22:07.58 | *** join/#bzflag quantumf_ (~quantumfo@pool-98-118-244-171.clppva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:29.36 | detrimental | merry christmas everyone! |