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| 09:48.35 | spldart | ..... hate git..... |
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| 18:22.24 | eightfold | hi there |
| 18:22.35 | eightfold | is it possible to "strafe" in bzflag |
| 18:22.58 | eightfold | drive the tank in one direction and have the canon in another direction? |
| 18:23.36 | blast007 | nope |
| 18:24.02 | eightfold | okay |
| 18:24.11 | eightfold | was looking like crazy for this |
| 18:24.14 | eightfold | :) |
| 18:24.20 | blast007 | there was a fork of the game years and years ago that had that feature, but never in the normal game |
| 18:24.35 | eightfold | wouldn't it add to the experience? |
| 18:24.40 | eightfold | i would think so |
| 18:25.14 | blast007 | it makes it more complicated, and BZFlag is about a more simple gameplay at current (which is also why tanks don't tilt) |
| 18:25.18 | eightfold | feels a bit limiting when having played multiplayer fps games |
| 18:25.39 | eightfold | ok |
| 18:27.33 | eightfold | what is a common way of setting up controls? is it possible not to control forward/backward motion with the mouse? |
| 18:28.14 | apeman | its only possible to strafe against a wall |
| 18:28.32 | eightfold | apeman: ok, haven't tried that |
| 18:28.46 | eightfold | just found the game yesterday. really nice gameplay. got stuck for three hours with a friend :) |
| 18:29.24 | apeman | what do you mean about control forward/backward with mouse |
| 18:30.42 | apeman | you're using keyboard? |
| 18:30.48 | eightfold | apeman: the mouse seems to control the forward/backward motion of the tank. it seems more logical for me to control that with arrow keys |
| 18:30.57 | eightfold | apeman: i'm using only keyboard now |
| 18:31.06 | eightfold | because the mouse controls were weird to me |
| 18:31.21 | apeman | oh, yes you can use keyboard but there are disadvantages |
| 18:32.06 | apeman | like when you jump with mouse you can turn or move at any speed, whereas with keyboard its difficult to control how much to turn |
| 18:33.17 | eightfold | apeman: ok |
| 18:34.13 | eightfold | in game videos on youtube it seems everybody can jump all the time |
| 18:34.23 | eightfold | we could only jump when having grabbed the "jump flag" |
| 18:34.50 | apeman | thats a map setting, whether you can jump by default or not |
| 18:35.25 | eightfold | ah, ok |
| 18:35.27 | apeman | some maps you cant jump at all (deefault jumping off, no jump flag) such as the Ducati league maps |
| 18:35.50 | eightfold | apeman: recommendation for head to head game maps, two persons only |
| 18:35.53 | eightfold | ? |
| 18:36.11 | eightfold | i'm running the server |
| 18:36.32 | apeman | for a local server? |
| 18:37.09 | apeman | i have no idea, it depends on your tastes. Do you like superflags and jumping? |
| 18:37.25 | eightfold | apeman: i like jumping and funny flags, yes :) |
| 18:37.28 | apeman | and what do you think of the default generated maps? (if they had superflags added to them) |
| 18:37.40 | eightfold | the more, the faster, the funnier |
| 18:37.50 | eightfold | apeman: wait a sec, what is superflags? |
| 18:38.06 | apeman | superflags = flags i guess |
| 18:38.23 | eightfold | ok |
| 18:38.24 | apeman | mean flags that arent bad to someone but whatever :P |
| 18:38.36 | eightfold | i must boot the game again and have a look :) |
| 18:39.00 | eightfold | when i run a server for my friend, is it correct that i must start the server first, and then connect to it myself? |
| 18:39.26 | apeman | i would recommend using generated map (but smaller worldsize) but adding lots of superflags |
| 18:39.39 | apeman | then make yourselfs admin and mess with server variables |
| 18:39.57 | apeman | how are you starting a server, through the client GUI? |
| 18:40.56 | blast007 | superflags include the bad flags :) |
| 18:42.08 | blast007 | eightfold: the bzfs manual page ('man bzfs' on linux, or included in the start menu on Windows) and the wiki ( http://wiki.bzflag.org ) have helpful information about running a server |
| 18:42.47 | eightfold | apeman: client gui yes, using mac client |
| 18:43.52 | blast007 | well, first step would be to stop using the client GUI to start the server ;) that's pretty crap |
| 18:44.13 | apeman | i cant remember how that worked. If you want to mess with adding flags and changing server variables (shot speeds etc) you should use what blast is talking about, the "real" server |
| 18:44.26 | eightfold | blast007: so, how would i start it? command line? |
| 18:44.31 | blast007 | yep |
| 18:44.39 | blast007 | the 'bzfs' binary is the BZFlag server |
| 18:44.51 | blast007 | it's somewhere inside the .app you downloaded |
| 18:44.54 | eightfold | blast007: if i want to start via gui, can i chose map and make map setings? |
| 18:45.00 | eightfold | blast007: yes, it's there in the package |
| 18:45.17 | blast007 | barely.. there's bugs with choosing maps that way, and even if some work, not all do |
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| 18:45.37 | blast007 | and when if fails, you have no idea why because the client GUI doesn't show you the errors |
| 18:45.53 | eightfold | blast007: ok, so what i do i start the server via cli, and the connect to it myself (and my partner) |
| 18:45.56 | eightfold | ? |
| 18:46.00 | blast007 | yep |
| 18:46.40 | blast007 | and for a LAN server you can ignore the -public* options |
| 18:47.04 | eightfold | blast007: my playing partner is in another city, so i guess i need public :) |
| 18:47.11 | blast007 | ah |
| 18:47.19 | blast007 | but no, not necessarily |
| 18:47.38 | blast007 | if you forward the ports and give them your public IP and the port, they can connect regardless |
| 18:47.49 | eightfold | blast007: i've already forwarded port |
| 18:47.58 | blast007 | the -public stuff just publishes your server on the public list server that everyone can see |
| 18:47.58 | eightfold | blast007: does it need udp btw? |
| 18:48.01 | blast007 | yes |
| 18:48.05 | blast007 | TCP and UDP |
| 18:48.08 | eightfold | ok |
| 18:48.22 | eightfold | aha, ok (about the public setting) |
| 18:56.36 | eightfold | ok, so it's something like this: |
| 18:56.59 | eightfold | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:57.59 | blast007 | sure, something like that :) |
| 18:58.04 | blast007 | er wait, no |
| 18:58.12 | blast007 | /Applications/BZFlag/BZFlag.app/Contents/MacOS/bzfs |
| 18:58.59 | eightfold | blast007: ok, thanks |
| 18:59.21 | blast007 | basic example of a 3 shot server with jumping and two of every good flag: |
| 18:59.23 | blast007 | /Applications/BZFlag/BZFlag.app/Contents/MacOS/bzfs -ddd +f good{2} -j -ms 3 |
| 18:59.40 | blast007 | (that would run on the default 5154 port) |
| 19:03.25 | eightfold | blast007: ah, thanks! we're gonna try it out |
| 19:05.17 | eightfold | works fine! is it possible to turn around in the air? |
| 19:05.25 | eightfold | i thought someone said so before |
| 19:05.39 | apeman | with wings flag |
| 19:14.00 | eightfold | apeman: thanks! |
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| 19:22.20 | eightfold | blast007: can i control map size from the command line too? |
| 19:22.57 | eightfold | -worldsize x perhaps |
| 19:23.25 | apeman | yes |
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| 19:44.55 | eightfold | is -offa a good mode for head to head games (two players? |
| 19:45.04 | eightfold | or is there a better one? |
| 19:46.21 | JeffM | it ensures there will never be teams |
| 19:46.22 | JeffM | or flags |
| 19:46.40 | JeffM | so sure, if you want one on one deathmatch that's the mode for it |
| 19:46.44 | eightfold | JeffM: no superflags? |
| 19:46.49 | JeffM | no team flags |
| 19:46.52 | eightfold | yeah, looking for deathmatch |
| 19:46.54 | eightfold | ah, ok |
| 19:46.55 | eightfold | thanks |
| 19:47.01 | JeffM | FFA can work too but you have to ensure that both players don't pick the same team |
| 19:47.10 | JeffM | normal FFA is really team death match |
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| 20:27.14 | eightfold | is the +f option not necessary when running deathmatch? |
| 20:28.25 | eightfold | or even valid? |
| 20:29.08 | JeffM | f takes a flag |
| 20:29.21 | JeffM | so you can add specific flags to the game if you want |
| 20:30.10 | JeffM | +f GM adds a GM to the game |
| 20:30.19 | JeffM | +f GM[5] adds 5 GM flags to the game |
| 20:30.38 | JeffM | +f good[5] adds 5 copies of all good flags to the game, so a ton of flags |
| 20:30.52 | JeffM | http://wiki.bzflag.org/BZFS_Command_Line_Options |
| 20:31.35 | eightfold | JeffM: ah, thanks. and -f bad means i get no bad flags, that's good. |
| 20:31.45 | JeffM | yes |
| 20:32.01 | JeffM | -f is a flag filter |
| 20:32.09 | JeffM | so some people may do +f good -f GM |
| 20:32.14 | JeffM | to get all good flags but GM |
| 20:41.03 | eightfold | JeffM: and -set _wingsJumpCount has to be set in config file or bzw, right? |
| 20:41.12 | eightfold | can't be on the command line? |
| 20:41.41 | JeffM | anthing in the config file can be done in the command line |
| 20:41.51 | JeffM | the config file just passes in command line arguments |
| 20:43.46 | eightfold | JeffM: ah, ok. is there a way to get some sort of "multi jump". continue jumping from the air? |
| 20:44.02 | JeffM | thats what the wings flag does |
| 20:44.28 | eightfold | JeffM: but there's no variable to make it default/permanent? |
| 20:44.33 | JeffM | no |
| 20:44.40 | eightfold | JeffM: ok, thanks again |
| 20:44.45 | JeffM | bzflag is not a flight simulator :) |
| 20:45.18 | eightfold | :D This is what i'm doing now: /Applications/BZFlag/BZFlag.app/Contents/MacOS/bzfs -ddd +f good{2} -f bad -j -ms 5 -worldsize 350 -offa -time 1200 -mps 100 -h -t -fb -sb -t -printscore |
| 20:45.29 | eightfold | great game. if there are developers here: thank you! |
| 20:46.09 | JeffM | you may not need that many Ds |
| 20:46.18 | JeffM | -f bad does nothing |
| 20:46.25 | eightfold | JeffM: that was my next question :) |
| 20:46.29 | JeffM | when all you did was add 2 copies of every good flag |
| 20:46.39 | JeffM | thats a lot of flags for that small world |
| 20:46.52 | eightfold | JeffM: yes. flagmania |
| 20:46.55 | eightfold | :) |
| 20:47.01 | JeffM | meh |
| 20:47.18 | eightfold | JeffM: i don't get the connection between -f and the number of flags |
| 20:47.26 | JeffM | you did 2 |
| 20:47.27 | eightfold | ah |
| 20:47.28 | eightfold | sorry |
| 20:47.30 | JeffM | that doesn't add 2 flags |
| 20:47.34 | eightfold | thought you said -d |
| 20:47.36 | JeffM | that adds 2 copies of EVERY flag |
| 20:49.02 | eightfold | JeffM: yes. but doesn't "-f bad" remove all bad flags when it's combined with "+f good{2}"? |
| 20:49.14 | JeffM | good didn't add any bad flags |
| 20:49.16 | JeffM | it only added good |
| 20:49.30 | JeffM | so there were be no bad flags to remove |
| 20:49.34 | eightfold | JeffM: ah, and no bad ones are there automatically |
| 20:49.40 | eightfold | JeffM: i see |
| 20:49.54 | JeffM | default should be no flags at all |
| 20:50.36 | JeffM | you also have -t twice |
| 20:51.06 | eightfold | ok, new: /Applications/BZFlag/BZFlag.app/Contents/MacOS/bzfs +f good{1} -j -ms 5 -worldsize 350 -offa -time 1200 -mps 100 -h -fb -sb -t -printscore |
| 20:51.26 | JeffM | whatever floats your boat :) |
| 20:51.44 | eightfold | flagmania was a bit too manic :) |
| 20:53.09 | eightfold | hm, got a "no acceleration limit" message when starting the server now. never got that before. |
| 20:53.22 | JeffM | you don't have -a |
| 20:53.29 | JeffM | and you did it was just buried in the mess of -ddd |
| 20:53.34 | JeffM | -ddd lots a LOT |
| 20:54.03 | eightfold | JeffM: removed all -d's now, thought it ADDED debug messages |
| 20:54.08 | eightfold | -a 50 38 added |
| 20:54.18 | JeffM | -d makes it log out more messages |
| 20:54.25 | JeffM | it doesn't change the behavor of anything |
| 21:12.33 | blast007 | JeffM / eightfold: the -f option ONLY applies to random flags (the -s and +s options), not to explicitly specified flags (the +f option) |
| 21:12.43 | JeffM | ahh |
| 21:13.12 | blast007 | commonly confused because it is confusing ;) |
| 21:14.28 | JeffM | I know, lets add more command line options to make it better! |
| 21:15.27 | blast007 | we could go GNU style... --noRandomFlagGenerationFor GM ;) |
| 21:15.39 | JeffM | yeah that'll make it so much better |
| 21:16.04 | JeffM | -disableEnablingRandomFlagRadmomizerForFlagTypeGM |
| 21:19.39 | blast007 | in any case, if you want one of every good flag except a certain flag, you'd have to add every other flag manually instead of using the 'good' shortcut |
| 21:20.47 | JeffM | that seems lame |
| 21:21.12 | JeffM | lets just make them pass in an XML structure that acts as a flag factory |
| 21:22.10 | blast007 | I dunno... I kinda like the way it works |
| 21:24.26 | JeffM | maybe just make +f be -addStaticFlag and -f be -filterRandomFlag |
| 21:24.36 | JeffM | it's just the letters make them seem linked |
| 21:24.47 | blast007 | I tend to use the random selection when I can ('+s 20 -s 50 -f bad' would always have at least 20 and up to 50 random good flags on the field) |
| 21:25.02 | blast007 | so.. the +s and -s are also kinda named backwards as well ;) |
| 21:25.08 | JeffM | yeah |
| 21:25.35 | JeffM | wiki says -f only takes a flag ID not a good/bad |
| 21:25.50 | blast007 | and +r for ricochet is a holdover from when we had some other -r option (think it was for allow rogue) |
| 21:25.59 | JeffM | probably |
| 21:26.18 | blast007 | -f works with good and bad |
| 21:28.46 | blast007 | the -help text shows it only works with bad or flag ID, and that +f only works with good or flag ID.. but that's a lie... :P both check for good, bad, and flag ID, and +f also checks for 'team' |
| 21:29.50 | JeffM | so they take the same arguments but don't work on the same flag sets.. fun |
| 21:55.32 | *** join/#bzflag Not-006 (~notifico@198.199.82.216) |
| 21:55.32 | Not-006 | [02BZFlagUnity] 07JeffM2501 pushed 035 commits to 03master [+54/-313/±8] 13http://git.io/RjaAYg |
| 21:55.33 | Not-006 | [02BZFlagUnity] 07JeffM2501 03b5c8c51 - Cleanup Ignore FIle |
| 21:55.34 | Not-006 | [02BZFlagUnity] 07JeffM2501 03f023299 - Kill bogus GUI class |
| 21:55.35 | Not-006 | [02BZFlagUnity] 07JeffM2501 037668051 - Not doing VS debuging |
| 21:55.36 | Not-006 | [02BZFlagUnity] ... and 2 more commits. |
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| 23:00.50 | allejo | unity??? :O |
| 23:01.29 | JeffM | crap, I didn't realize that was hooked up here |
| 23:04.06 | JeffM | Guess I didn't realize it was in the list of things that said "BZFlag" when I hooked up the new import branches |
| 23:06.40 | allejo | lol |
| 23:06.53 | allejo | don't you have to buy the unity ide? |
| 23:06.58 | JeffM | no |
| 23:07.12 | JeffM | you can if you want soft shadows and some other features |
| 23:07.16 | JeffM | but there is a free one |
| 23:07.19 | allejo | ohhh |
| 23:07.31 | JeffM | http://unity3d.com/unity/licenses |
| 23:07.36 | JeffM | that compares the free one to the pay one |
| 23:08.35 | allejo | oh seems good |
| 23:08.44 | JeffM | yeah it's fine for what most games need |
| 23:09.09 | JeffM | or if you wanted, buy a full version just to do release builds, and developers could probalby get by with free |
| 23:09.41 | JeffM | the biggest bummer is no linux IDE, only build targets |
| 23:14.15 | allejo | :( |
| 23:21.29 | JeffM | some people say it works in wine |
| 23:21.46 | JeffM | the builds it makes are native linux and run fine, so people can play on linnux |
| 23:23.10 | blast007 | biggest negative for me is that it's not open source |
| 23:23.18 | JeffM | this is true |
| 23:23.55 | JeffM | I wish torque would get to the level unity is at |
| 23:25.09 | JeffM | I'll delete it from the channel |
| 23:25.50 | JeffM | do we still need both import 2 and import 3 in the notifico list? |
| 23:30.40 | blast007 | just 3 |
| 23:31.37 | JeffM | then what we have is , bzflag, bzflag-import-3, bzflag-services, bzworkbench, and bzflag-art |
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