| 00:00.23 | cz3141 | IIRC was actually posted there, checking now |
| 00:00.33 | JeffM | if it was not then you don't have rights to edit it |
| 00:01.09 | blast007 | JeffM: seems he had exported it from the client as an OBJ dump (via /saveworld -o), opened it in Wings3D, exported to BZW, and then stuff like drivethrough was gone, of course |
| 00:01.49 | cz3141 | ^-- yes i understand the error of my ways now |
| 00:01.54 | JeffM | oh god, that's even worse |
| 00:02.02 | JeffM | you've lost all kinds of info |
| 00:02.19 | cz3141 | learning. thought i might be as simple as pasting the material/physics/etc info back in |
| 00:02.24 | JeffM | get thes source |
| 00:02.27 | cz3141 | was wrong |
| 00:02.34 | JeffM | no, all you got was the geometry |
| 00:02.47 | cz3141 | and yes it is released in the map releases |
| 00:02.57 | JeffM | then start with that |
| 00:03.32 | cz3141 | will do... didn't realize that would make a difference. thanks again |
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| 19:28.32 | cz3141 | compiling bzfed, getting a typecast error that prevents it from compiling. |
| 19:29.02 | cz3141 | actually getting the same error twice. i realize this is not specifically bzflag. |
| 19:29.13 | cz3141 | is there place to ask these questions other than here? |
| 19:29.43 | blast007 | well, the latest release of that is from 2005, so... yeah.... |
| 19:29.44 | blast007 | :) |
| 19:30.02 | blast007 | you do realize you don't need a graphical editor to actually work with maps, right? |
| 19:30.33 | blast007 | there isn't a graphical editor in existance that supports our entire map format |
| 19:32.13 | cz3141 | hi blast, all the above is at issue i know. |
| 19:32.56 | cz3141 | DTRemenak: graphical editor, yes understood. but makes it easier to find structure of interest. |
| 19:33.08 | cz3141 | (which is why i attempted Wings3D edit) |
| 19:33.24 | cz3141 | (autocomplete madness) |
| 19:33.36 | blast007 | not necessarily easier if it doesn't support opening the map file at all ;) |
| 19:33.41 | cz3141 | lol |
| 19:33.45 | cz3141 | so i am finding |
| 19:33.56 | blast007 | a lot of editors will choke opening newer files |
| 19:34.29 | cz3141 | i tried bzworkbench first actually, may have to try that on linux system tho (obsd at present) |
| 19:35.51 | cz3141 | that is my next step. cheers and thanks again |
| 19:35.55 | blast007 | did bzworkbench not build on OpenBSD? |
| 19:36.28 | blast007 | because that's one editor that is part of the BZFlag project |
| 19:36.29 | cz3141 | it didnt for me. i need to go back and look, most likely dep issue. |
| 19:36.57 | cz3141 | and is much more current, which is why i started there. |
| 19:37.17 | cz3141 | ok will do go back and re-attempt. |
| 19:38.01 | blast007 | are you trying to build bzfed on OpenBSD? |
| 19:38.12 | cz3141 | yes. |
| 19:38.19 | blast007 | "BzfEd is a *Linux* BZFlag World Editor" ;) |
| 19:38.38 | cz3141 | in C++ ... :D |
| 19:38.45 | cz3141 | and i got 99% there. |
| 19:38.50 | blast007 | what does the language have to do with it? |
| 19:39.11 | cz3141 | but if i am going to have to tweek source then i'd rather do it with a more complete/current package |
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| 20:58.54 | JeffM | bzfed was wierd |
| 20:59.00 | JeffM | cz3141, you are on linux? |
| 20:59.21 | JeffM | ahh bzd |
| 20:59.23 | JeffM | yeah good luck |
| 20:59.43 | JeffM | bzedit win32 should work in wine :) |
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| 21:21.50 | blast007 | bzworkbench is at a similar point feature-wise to the old bzedit win32, though bzedit win32 might actually be a bit more polished :P |
| 21:25.40 | JeffM | indeed |
| 21:25.50 | JeffM | in some respects workbench supports more features |
| 21:26.01 | JeffM | it just has an odd GUI |
| 21:28.01 | blast007 | I like the mouse dragging mode of bzedit more than bzworkbench |
| 21:28.12 | JeffM | yeah that's part of GUI to me |
| 21:28.30 | blast007 | true, I guess it is :) |
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| 21:33.40 | stimoceiver | so what kind fo controllers do people use... are most of the people kicking my ass within milliseconds of my joining say, Mofo, actually playing using the keyboard? |
| 21:34.40 | blast007 | some do quite well with keyboard-only controls, some use the mouse+keyboard, some may use gamepads/joysticks |
| 21:36.20 | JeffM | I use my ming! |
| 21:36.27 | JeffM | mind even |
| 21:37.23 | stimoceiver | good answer... ive been playing keyboard only for years and lately its like i can barely even join before I'm killed, not even spawn killed, just fricking killed within the first interaction with another player, maybe im just getting old |
| 21:38.02 | JeffM | you get more granularity with a mouse or gamepad for turning |
| 21:38.21 | JeffM | and thats your aiming axis so it's somewhat important |
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| 21:40.08 | stimoceiver | yeah, you might have a point... I'm usually good at quick stop/adjujst with arrow keys and holding multi-key on the 4pad for diagonals |
| 21:40.36 | JeffM | still faster to flick your wrist to line up a long shot |
| 21:40.38 | stimoceiver | i dun see how gamepad would be that much of an improvement but obviously an analog stick would be a huge improvement, granularity wise |
| 21:40.55 | JeffM | a small error on th keys ends up as a big miss further out |
| 21:42.08 | blast007 | the best controls can vary from map to map.. if you're on a 2 shot no jumping server, then keyboard might work best :) |
| 21:42.45 | blast007 | with mouse, screen resolution and mouse speed play a factor in how the game plays |
| 21:43.00 | JeffM | yeah our use of the mouse is a bit lame |
| 21:43.14 | JeffM | but it's tweakable enough for people to use |
| 21:43.23 | blast007 | yup |
| 21:43.47 | stimoceiver | I could never manage mouse |
| 21:43.58 | stimoceiver | Ive used joystick before, but its been a minute, always seemed to revert to keyboard |
| 21:49.29 | cz3141 | JeffM: sorry was away. yes that is a good idea. |
| 21:49.50 | cz3141 | using wine on linux. |
| 21:50.01 | cz3141 | will give it a shot. |
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| 21:53.29 | JeffM | the windows version may eat your teleporter links :) |
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| 21:53.34 | JeffM | really workbench should build |
| 21:53.45 | JeffM | any issues would not be code related but build system related |
| 21:55.33 | cz3141 | havent attempted build on linux yet, but looks straightforward |
| 21:56.00 | JeffM | yeah it's not hard |
| 21:56.03 | JeffM | just makefile stuff |
| 21:57.47 | blast007 | I *think* it has a real configure system in place, but I can't recall.. at one point it was some screwy thing generated by Eclipse, I think. |
| 21:58.07 | JeffM | I've only ever built it on windows |
| 21:58.57 | blast007 | cz3141: additonally, get bzworkbench from our SVN trunk, not from any source package you might find somewhere |
| 21:59.29 | JeffM | did we move that github? |
| 21:59.52 | blast007 | move what github? |
| 21:59.57 | JeffM | workbench |
| 22:00.01 | blast007 | no |
| 22:00.19 | blast007 | or did we? I haven't really cared about the git stuff for the most part :P |
| 22:00.54 | JeffM | I don't know what the state of BulletCatcher machinations is right now |
| 22:01.49 | blast007 | bzworkbench would probably be something a bit easier to migrate, in comparison to the main codebase ;) |
| 22:02.22 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:04.14 | stimoceiver | so do hacked clients exist |
| 22:04.21 | stimoceiver | ? |
| 22:04.28 | JeffM | it's open soruce |
| 22:04.33 | JeffM | people mod it |
| 22:04.35 | JeffM | some do it for cheats |
| 22:04.49 | JeffM | but we don't really sanction those types of mods |
| 22:04.51 | stimoceiver | once in a while i'd notice someone whose position in boardspace seemed to be subject to a lot of jitter, especially when my shots should have been hitting them |
| 22:05.08 | stimoceiver | another obvious mod would be a targeting assistant |
| 22:05.13 | JeffM | cheats like that exist |
| 22:05.33 | JeffM | but bzflag isn't a good internet game so some things that people think are cheats are just poor network design |
| 22:05.50 | JeffM | just because you see a shot hit someone doesn't mean that they see it hit them |
| 22:06.00 | stimoceiver | i get it |
| 22:06.19 | JeffM | it's the person who got hit's responsibility to say "I died" |
| 22:06.49 | JeffM | so if they see the shot in a different place, or they dodged and the update hasn't gotten to you yet, then it will look like you hit them and they did not die |
| 22:06.59 | stimoceiver | it was referring to something quite specific, you know, like, a player who has little to no apparent jitter except when they should have been hit, pretty much every time i fired shots that should have been direct hits |
| 22:07.18 | JeffM | that may be a cheat |
| 22:07.24 | stimoceiver | but i appreciate the explanation of underlying protocol layer |
| 22:07.27 | JeffM | I don't trust the jitter code ether |
| 22:07.58 | JeffM | so it may just be that we don't update the jitter untill they start sending a log of update packaets, like when dodging |
| 22:08.02 | JeffM | so it'd be hard to say for sure |
| 22:09.55 | JeffM | but cheating is easy |
| 22:10.06 | JeffM | the game does very little to prevent it |
| 22:10.09 | blast007 | or what if someone's playing on dialup? might they may not have issues until they start sending lots of updates while dodging? |
| 22:10.21 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:10.43 | JeffM | there are a number of reasosn that can cause jitter during big updates |
| 22:30.41 | cz3141 | blast007: used updated svn repo, thanks. nice autoreferral notice too. |
| 22:31.12 | cz3141 | have osg 2.8.5 compiling at present |
| 22:31.35 | cz3141 | that is most recent in the 2.8.* series... s'ok with bzworkbench? |
| 22:32.53 | cz3141 | asked another way: is there an OSG 2.8.* flavor that bzworkbench likes best? |
| 22:41.33 | blast007 | cz3141: autoreferral? |
| 22:41.53 | blast007 | as for using newer deps, it might work, it might not work ;) |
| 22:49.31 | JeffM | are you using the old SF SVN link? |
| 22:49.47 | JeffM | they did a referal to the new URL when we 'upgraded' the project |
| 23:08.06 | cz3141 | i did use the old link however... |
| 23:08.23 | JeffM | then that's sourceforge |
| 23:08.25 | cz3141 | it referred me to the new location (what i mean by "autoreferral") |
| 23:09.39 | JeffM | yup that's what they do |
| 23:09.51 | cz3141 | rather nice of them |
| 23:10.45 | cz3141 | once OSG 2.8.5 finishes compiling will then start bzworkbench, ~70% at present |
| 23:10.56 | cz3141 | thanks for the feedback & patience |
| 23:31.54 | blast007 | doesn't matter so much for bzworkbench, but I think for the normal bzflag codebase the old URL was not up to date with the correct repo URL |