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| 13:08.45 | brad | ../lib/.libs/libcurl.a(ssluse.o): In function `ossl_connect_common': |
| 13:08.45 | brad | ssluse.c:(.text+0x2e61): undefined reference to `SSLv2_client_method' |
| 13:08.45 | brad | collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status |
| 13:09.18 | brad | any idea what package fixes that on debian? tried libcurl4-openssl-dev |
| 13:19.58 | brad | nvm, cleaning and going through the whole process again fixed it |
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| 18:28.21 | swigg | There is: svn, git, cvs and mercurial |
| 18:28.30 | swigg | Why 4 different methods? |
| 18:28.42 | swigg | some better for certain software releases? |
| 18:29.29 | swigg | Oops, Bazaar too |
| 18:29.32 | swigg | so 5 |
| 19:01.12 | blast007 | swigg: there's far more than those... |
| 19:28.12 | JeffM | svn is cvs done better, git and mercurial were attempts by seperate people to do the same thing |
| 19:28.37 | JeffM | so did we decide anything? |
| 19:29.08 | blast007 | nope |
| 19:29.24 | JeffM | are you still prefering the bucket of bits? |
| 19:29.52 | blast007 | well, I am, but I'm just one person ;) |
| 19:30.03 | mebigfatguy | really like that over github? |
| 19:30.20 | JeffM | I think mostly he just dosn't like git zealots and I can understand that |
| 19:30.29 | blast007 | mebigfatguy: if github did mercurial too, I'd use github ;) |
| 19:30.32 | JeffM | bitbucket offers free private repos and that i s nice |
| 19:30.49 | mebigfatguy | well hg and git are orders of magnitude better than svn, so either is much better |
| 19:31.06 | mebigfatguy | hg is easier to use, but git has a better model, imo |
| 19:31.06 | blast007 | doesn't really matter much for this kind of project |
| 19:31.09 | JeffM | the source tree tool bitbucket offers is more feature enabled then the github client, but a little harder to setup |
| 19:31.14 | blast007 | svn is well suited to what we do as well |
| 19:32.00 | JeffM | we'll be running the dvcs in a very similar maner, we've found that code dumps even if they have history that gets magicaly interleaved makes developers not work on code |
| 19:32.54 | JeffM | you want to try github, see if it pisses us off and if so swap to bitbucket? |
| 19:33.05 | allejo | github! :P |
| 19:33.57 | JeffM | hg felt a little slower then git but then I didn't compare them with the same repo on the same service |
| 19:33.58 | blast007 | hold on, let me go buy a goat to sacrifice. need some more holy water as well.. drank the last of it last night. |
| 19:34.11 | JeffM | but the tort hg install was better then the tort git instal |
| 19:34.13 | JeffM | heh |
| 19:34.29 | mebigfatguy | well, that is true, tooling on windows is better for hg |
| 19:34.35 | mebigfatguy | gui tooling that is |
| 19:34.43 | JeffM | once you get them installed, they are pretty much the same |
| 19:34.54 | JeffM | the real differences between github and bitbucket are very small |
| 19:35.20 | JeffM | I like the milestone traker on github |
| 19:35.21 | mebigfatguy | if anyone is really cranky you can access a git repo with hg client and vice-versa anyway ... so |
| 19:35.44 | JeffM | but I think bitbucket will get those kind of features soon |
| 19:38.10 | blast007 | JeffM: like I said, I'm not sure about that. Atlassian has a paid issue tracker that they want you to upgrade to. |
| 19:38.17 | JeffM | ahhh |
| 19:38.23 | JeffM | how much is it? |
| 19:39.04 | blast007 | quite a bit |
| 19:39.06 | blast007 | https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/pricing |
| 19:39.19 | JeffM | ouch |
| 19:39.20 | allejo | ouch |
| 19:39.23 | mebigfatguy | are you planning on keeping binary artifacts out of the repo? |
| 19:39.25 | blast007 | oh wait |
| 19:39.30 | blast007 | "free for open source" hmmmm |
| 19:39.43 | blast007 | https://www.atlassian.com/software/views/open-source-license-request |
| 19:40.45 | allejo | can't you just have an issue tracker that says: "I haz problem. here iz mah problem" |
| 19:40.56 | JeffM | /kick allejo |
| 19:41.07 | blast007 | allejo: that would be nn's bug tracker |
| 19:41.13 | allejo | hehe |
| 19:41.44 | JeffM | mostly I want the ability to link a code change to a bug/issue and have a view that shows how complete a milestone is |
| 19:43.20 | JeffM | tho actualy it looks like jira works with both github and bitbucket |
| 19:43.49 | blast007 | I'll have to check on that in more detail |
| 19:44.06 | blast007 | perhaps we'd want to use several of their products if they're free for open-source projects |
| 19:44.18 | JeffM | I like it's todo, I don't care about it's agile or mobile |
| 19:45.49 | JeffM | but yeah that's something to look into whatever system we go with |
| 19:47.47 | blast007 | looks like you can use Fisheye to integrate JIRA with git/mercurial/etc |
| 19:47.56 | blast007 | "The most scalable and recommended solution is to use FishEye, which supports Subversion, Git, Perforce, Clearcase, CVS, and Mercurial with real-time notifications of code changes plus web-based reporting, visualisation, search and code sharing." |
| 19:48.27 | JeffM | ok, so that takes it out of the "goes with bitbucket" pile :) |
| 19:48.52 | blast007 | ya |
| 19:49.56 | blast007 | and then there's Bamboo, that's a build server - that can also integrate with JIRA |
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| 20:05.04 | JeffM | one thing github dosn't do is binary downloads by default |
| 20:05.15 | JeffM | you can fake it by adding them to your wiki repository |
| 20:07.17 | JeffM | it seems like most people recomend using another service anyway, like Amazon S3 or https://bintray.com/ |
| 20:08.35 | JeffM | looks like bintray can do yum and apt packages too |
| 20:09.03 | blast007 | or sourceforge |
| 20:09.12 | JeffM | yeah that's always an option |
| 20:09.22 | blast007 | http://sourceforge.net/publish/ |
| 20:09.39 | blast007 | or we host it ourself |
| 20:09.44 | JeffM | sure |
| 20:09.56 | blast007 | I have 5TB/month |
| 20:10.13 | blast007 | haven't used even 500GB in a month yet |
| 20:10.25 | JeffM | heh |
| 20:12.43 | blast007 | most of my bandwidth is probably from the daily backups |
| 20:14.09 | JeffM | bitbucket itself is closed source, where github publishes it's code |
| 20:14.15 | JeffM | not a huge thing, but interesting |
| 20:15.49 | blast007 | for their whole service? |
| 20:15.57 | JeffM | suposedly |
| 20:19.02 | blast007 | perhaps someone was confusing Github with Gitorious? |
| 20:19.31 | blast007 | Gitorious is AGPLv3 |
| 20:19.46 | JeffM | poosibly |
| 20:20.50 | JeffM | https://github.com/github/developer.github.com |
| 20:21.19 | JeffM | looks like a buttload of the sites they use are in git repos |
| 20:21.34 | blast007 | http://gitlab.org/ |
| 20:22.34 | blast007 | https://bitbucket.org/atlassian Atlassian has a lot of open-source stuff as well, if you're wanting a comparison ;) |
| 20:23.07 | JeffM | I was just reading the wikipedia comparison |
| 20:23.08 | blast007 | (granted, a lot of those are for working with their other services) |
| 20:25.52 | blast007 | github lets you clone repos with subversion as well - is that something to make note of? |
| 20:26.40 | JeffM | so if you REALY hate it you can work in svn and just submit patches? |
| 20:26.56 | blast007 | heh |
| 20:28.46 | blast007 | looks like you can commit through svn as well |
| 20:29.07 | blast007 | but there's some tricks you have to keep in mind when doing it that way.. |
| 20:29.12 | blast007 | https://help.github.com/articles/support-for-subversion-clients |
| 20:30.36 | JeffM | so what would our import plan be? blow out history or import history and delete all the other stuff that isn't the game? |
| 20:31.45 | blast007 | well, if we import everything, then we'll be downloading that every time we clone the repo even if we "delete" it |
| 20:31.57 | JeffM | yeah and that would suck |
| 20:32.09 | JeffM | ignoring history is the simplest thing |
| 20:32.20 | JeffM | and we can always go back to svn to see history items |
| 20:32.27 | blast007 | there's not an easy way to retain history while at the same time splitting stuff into different repos |
| 20:32.52 | blast007 | we have a rather complicated version history |
| 20:33.04 | blast007 | version control history* |
| 20:33.05 | JeffM | yeah.. thanks CVS |
| 20:33.21 | blast007 | thank SVN too ;) |
| 20:33.38 | blast007 | or thank SF, or us, or all of it |
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| 20:33.41 | JeffM | yeah |
| 20:33.53 | blast007 | had we split stuff into different repos from the start, it'd have been easy to move it |
| 20:34.04 | JeffM | but IE!!!!! |
| 20:34.37 | blast007 | oh right, cookies don't work across different repos |
| 20:45.11 | JeffM | I don't see any major problem by just exporting what we need and adding it to the dvcs and going for history from there |
| 20:49.09 | mebigfatguy | +1 |
| 21:01.18 | JeffM | does anyone else prefer bitbucket to github? |
| 21:01.54 | JeffM | and is there anyone that would not use one if we picked the other? |
| 21:25.51 | alpha1-2 | are you planning to migrate from SVN to GIT maybe? :O |
| 21:26.21 | joevano | so how big is the full repo in git... it is much smaller I know |
| 21:26.37 | joevano | pulling it down now |
| 21:26.49 | JeffM | the big thing is we want to split it up |
| 21:27.44 | joevano | i think we *may* be able to do that and still keep history |
| 21:28.06 | joevano | if we want |
| 21:28.40 | JeffM | there would be some benift to that |
| 21:29.00 | JeffM | and can your idea work with both git and hg? or just git? |
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| 21:29.27 | joevano | so how do we want to split it... is it in the channel history? I can do some testing |
| 21:29.47 | JeffM | main game in one, another repo for the website, another for edit, etc.. |
| 21:29.55 | JeffM | bassicly one repo per thingy |
| 21:30.04 | mebigfatguy | i'd just say don't put binary artifacts in either |
| 21:30.19 | mebigfatguy | use a artifact mgr, or such |
| 21:30.31 | JeffM | what is an "artificat" in that sense? |
| 21:30.37 | JeffM | builds? |
| 21:30.39 | mebigfatguy | .dll's |
| 21:30.45 | mebigfatguy | etc. |
| 21:30.48 | mebigfatguy | 3rdparty |
| 21:30.52 | JeffM | we don't have any dlls in our current setup |
| 21:30.56 | JeffM | it's all sources |
| 21:30.59 | mebigfatguy | ok |
| 21:31.27 | joevano | kk... I'll give it a shot... |
| 21:31.59 | JeffM | are you thinking of exporting from svn, deleting the history items that pertain to the paths we don't want, then importing into the DVCS? |
| 21:33.10 | joevano | no, going to try and import individual paths |
| 21:33.22 | JeffM | k |
| 21:33.25 | mebigfatguy | both tools have history converters |
| 21:33.36 | mebigfatguy | but really, you probably will never care |
| 21:34.05 | JeffM | yeah that's why I'm not really broken up about loosing history |
| 21:35.14 | JeffM | joevano, bassicly each dir in trunk would be a repo |
| 21:35.18 | joevano | do we want to try convert the contributors to properly formatted like "Joe Van Overberghe (joevane@...)" if we have the info? |
| 21:35.49 | JeffM | sure if it's easy |
| 21:35.57 | JeffM | but don't knock yourself out for it |
| 21:37.05 | joevano | it's not terribly difficult |
| 21:43.19 | blast007 | joevano: I think we'd have to go through revision by revision and map changes to specific repositories/branches |
| 21:43.41 | alpha1-2 | I know that Mercurial is the simplest system of these three, but for simplest things, not for the game for example |
| 21:43.46 | joevano | you think? I'm not sure |
| 21:43.47 | blast007 | we'ved moved stuff around, renamed stuff, altered files within tags, etc |
| 21:44.25 | joevano | ah... you may be right... I'll give it a shot though... I'm really skilled at failing |
| 21:44.36 | blast007 | trepan and myself had tried migrating it to mercurial quite a while back |
| 21:45.45 | alpha1-2 | the game in mercurial? why? it's a complex game nowadays! |
| 21:46.25 | JeffM | alpha1-2, what are you basing your "simple" statement on? |
| 21:46.36 | joevano | alpha1-2: the dvcs is irrelivent to the project, you just need to pck one |
| 21:46.49 | joevano | pick* |
| 21:46.57 | JeffM | maybe hg dosn't support openGL? |
| 21:47.49 | joevano | you mean it can't do code fly throughs? |
| 21:48.07 | mebigfatguy | next there will be an HG tank Flag |
| 21:48.07 | JeffM | well it dosn't use proper jurasic park style unix |
| 21:48.15 | blast007 | This is UNIX! I know this! |
| 21:48.19 | blast007 | hehehe |
| 21:48.51 | alpha1-2 | I was working a little about mercurial with another developer group (they know much, I'm not) and they said me that mercurial was more easy/simple to handle... finally they migrated to git |
| 21:49.20 | JeffM | ok so just hearsay |
| 21:49.21 | blast007 | I've never used git or mercurial for any large projects, so I am not a good judge for that.. |
| 21:49.43 | blast007 | never branched on either, for instance :) |
| 21:49.56 | JeffM | I did a branch in git, it worked out ok |
| 21:50.15 | JeffM | branched, swaped to a new network lib, had some changes from upstream in the trunk then merged it all back together |
| 21:50.16 | blast007 | iirc, there was something about being unable to delete branches in mercurial |
| 21:50.24 | JeffM | I assume HG works similary |
| 21:50.26 | JeffM | ahh |
| 21:50.33 | joevano | blast007, JeffM: just FYI... we use most of the Atlassian stack at work... I love the stuff |
| 21:50.45 | JeffM | joevano, yeah it looks pretty god |
| 21:50.46 | JeffM | good |
| 21:51.16 | JeffM | really the differences between the services is super minor |
| 21:51.32 | mebigfatguy | you just hide branches in HG |
| 21:51.33 | alpha1-2 | I can ask them anyways, they have around 5 years working iirc |
| 21:51.55 | JeffM | for it git seems to be 'make branch, merge branch, delete branch' |
| 21:52.14 | blast007 | mebigfatguy: how do you hide them? |
| 21:52.37 | blast007 | 'hg commit --close-branch' ? |
| 21:52.40 | mebigfatguy | yes |
| 21:52.45 | mebigfatguy | it just doesn't show up in hg branches |
| 21:53.02 | blast007 | hmm, okay |
| 21:53.03 | mebigfatguy | if you just recommit somethign else to that branch, they show back up again |
| 21:53.18 | blast007 | okay, that's kinda neat actually |
| 21:53.29 | mebigfatguy | i like git's branches better, and i also like git's index concept better |
| 21:53.37 | mebigfatguy | git is more arcane to use tho |
| 21:54.08 | alpha1-2 | but... why is the main reason/s for do a BIG migration finally? |
| 21:54.33 | alpha1-2 | aren't you happy with SVN finally? |
| 21:54.33 | mebigfatguy | doing histories/diffs in hg/git over svn is ridiculously better for one |
| 21:55.01 | JeffM | alpha1-2, things are happening |
| 21:56.06 | alpha1-2 | JeffM: "things are happening" is a very general response :) |
| 21:56.12 | JeffM | yup |
| 21:56.40 | joevano | we use git at work and only work in branches... never in master... when we push a branch onto master it is always deployable code |
| 21:57.13 | JeffM | joevano, in general I'm in favor of github as I like a lot of the default stuff they have, that combined with the ability to hook the aslan stack into it makes it a smidge better then bitbucket IMHO |
| 21:57.56 | alpha1-2 | I asked about some (1, 2,... 10) reasons, enough importants, for do a BIG migration :) |
| 21:58.47 | JeffM | there are many, to not be on sourceforge, to get a better bug tracker, to split up the repository, to break away from the current project, etc... |
| 21:59.27 | alpha1-2 | "to break away from the current project"??? :O |
| 21:59.36 | JeffM | yeah, we've been discussing it all week |
| 21:59.50 | alpha1-2 | a fork?? |
| 21:59.54 | blast007 | yes |
| 22:00.07 | alpha1-2 | :O |
| 22:00.16 | mebigfatguy | you also are much more likely to get contributions from _not_ the core group because github makes it much easier than sf. |
| 22:00.18 | alpha1-2 | at this time?? |
| 22:00.29 | JeffM | alpha1-2, no 3 weeks ago |
| 22:00.33 | mebigfatguy | pull requests are sweet |
| 22:01.17 | blast007 | mebigfatguy: well, right now we're comparing bitbucket and github, both of which have pull requests |
| 22:01.31 | alpha1-2 | after around 20 years,I mean??? |
| 22:01.35 | mebigfatguy | blast007: that was more to alpha1-2's q about why move away from svn |
| 22:01.39 | blast007 | k |
| 22:01.45 | JeffM | I know github can attack pull requests to issue tickets, I don't know if bit bucket can |
| 22:01.56 | JeffM | alpha1-2, sure |
| 22:02.09 | JeffM | attach not attack :) |
| 22:05.32 | alpha1-2 | JeffM: I read about Forum post in realtion with T R's issue time ago... I don't understand well... it is decided already to break away?? |
| 22:06.40 | allejo | wait so there would be a "silly tank game" group/team and then that group/team will have different repos? |
| 22:07.13 | joevano | allejo: uhm... yes? |
| 22:07.18 | JeffM | different repos for the different deliverables, one for main game, one for website, one for editor |
| 22:07.23 | joevano | ;-) |
| 22:07.36 | JeffM | mods to the editor don't have to be in the same history as the website |
| 22:07.37 | allejo | yea that's what i meant. cool |
| 22:07.57 | JeffM | yeah it makes more sense |
| 22:08.07 | JeffM | alpha1-2, again we've been discussing it all week here |
| 22:08.44 | Notify | 03BZFlag:bullet_catcher * 22824 trunk/bzflag/src/game/DirectoryNames.cxx: Use std::string for directory name manipulation on the Mac, too. |
| 22:09.17 | alpha1-2 | I was checking the logs, I didnt see nothing this week (I can chek it again)... do you mean this week or which one? |
| 22:09.36 | tw1sted | Constitution: ping |
| 22:09.49 | blast007 | alpha1-2: the ibot logs? |
| 22:09.53 | alpha1-2 | yes |
| 22:10.12 | alpha1-2 | I was checking all the week iirc |
| 22:10.14 | blast007 | the bot has been rather unstable this week, I seem to recall |
| 22:10.32 | alpha1-2 | but maybe I am wrong? |
| 22:10.52 | JeffM | I see it in the log |
| 22:10.59 | alpha1-2 | what date? |
| 22:11.06 | joevano | that's why most of us never disconnect and log everything ourselves |
| 22:11.50 | JeffM | techincaly it started monday but the big part about names is on tuesday |
| 22:11.54 | Notify | 03BZFlag:bullet_catcher * 22825 trunk/bzflag/plugins/plugin_utils/plugin_files.cpp: Use std::string instead of a fixed size buffer for non-Windows directory name manipulation. |
| 22:12.00 | Constitution | tw1sted: pong |
| 22:14.31 | joevano | man.. I forgot how big the SVN repo is...4.5GB o disk |
| 22:14.33 | alpha1-2 | ok, thanks, I have to go, I ll check it after :) |
| 22:15.39 | Notify | 03BZFlag:bullet_catcher * 22826 trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/HUDRenderer.cxx: Use std::string and TextUtils::format() when generating HUD strings instead of fixed size buffers and sprintf(). |
| 22:15.53 | alpha1-2 | last question: then, did you say, JeffM, that BREAK AWAY issue was discussed around 3 weeks ago? |
| 22:16.04 | JeffM | nope |
| 22:16.30 | blast007 | that was sarcasm |
| 22:16.36 | alpha1-2 | ah |
| 22:16.41 | JeffM | SUUUUURRREEE IT WAS! |
| 22:16.50 | alpha1-2 | ok, don't kill me !! |
| 22:17.54 | alpha1-2 | any date/week for not be (me) too ignorant, apart of Forum post (I mean log date/week bout BREAK AWAY) or is it much asked? |
| 22:18.18 | JeffM | it's been a long time coming, there is no one specific place we can show you |
| 22:18.34 | alpha1-2 | ok, but is it decided already or not? |
| 22:18.54 | JeffM | pretty much |
| 22:19.03 | JeffM | blast007 and I can't see any reason not to |
| 22:19.31 | mebigfatguy | alpha1-2: something giving you agita? |
| 22:21.30 | alpha1-2 | well, I DIDN'T know that it was ALREADY decided... it isn't something minor... I have already around 1 year playing and some moths registered... so, after 20 years of development, I don't think that it is something MINOR :| |
| 22:21.47 | JeffM | it isn't |
| 22:21.59 | JeffM | nobody said it was minor |
| 22:22.11 | mebigfatguy | meh,... i'll say it's minor |
| 22:22.14 | alpha1-2 | it can altered to any kind of user/developer, specially to a begginer here like me |
| 22:22.32 | JeffM | ok, we'll you'll just deal with the changes |
| 22:22.42 | JeffM | you'd do a pull request instead of a patch |
| 22:23.09 | alpha1-2 | alter* |
| 22:24.12 | JeffM | or goal is to do it in the least confusing way possible |
| 22:24.40 | joevano | alpha1-2: this has actually been talked about for years among the main project people... first in private and then openly for the last couple |
| 22:25.41 | JeffM | we even asked tim to turn it over to someone else |
| 22:26.33 | joevano | i would have to go back in my logs, but I would guess the first time I was in on the conversation was 5 years ago |
| 22:27.25 | alpha1-2 | joevano: "for the last couple" do you mean mostly in Forum, in chat, or both? |
| 22:27.40 | JeffM | usualy here |
| 22:27.41 | joevano | in here... |
| 22:28.00 | joevano | this is the dev forum after all |
| 22:29.05 | alpha1-2 | oh ok, guys, I 'll let you continue with this, I hope that all go well, for the goodness of all community... I have to go, I ' ll try check it all after, bye |
| 22:29.41 | tw1sted | Constitution: pm |
| 22:32.54 | JeffM | so are we all good with Steel Axiom? |
| 22:33.04 | mebigfatguy | phew... got alpha1-2's sign off, please proceed |
| 22:33.07 | JeffM | or do we need a tiebreaker |
| 22:34.30 | mebigfatguy | Steel Axiom? |
| 22:34.38 | JeffM | as a name |
| 22:34.51 | mebigfatguy | ah.... just note it appears to be a bike |
| 22:35.40 | JeffM | yeah that's the axiom in steel, we should be able to replace it in google with smart SEO |
| 22:36.31 | blast007 | the top two right now are Steel Judgment and Steel Axiom |
| 22:37.02 | JeffM | with judgment there may be need to get it spelled judgement and judgment as both are correct |
| 22:37.48 | tw1sted | votes for axiom |
| 22:39.27 | blast007 | tw1sted: have you voted on our actual poll yet? |
| 22:39.32 | tw1sted | yes |
| 22:39.35 | blast007 | ok |
| 22:39.52 | tw1sted | but between judgment and axiom, axiom has my vote |
| 22:39.56 | tw1sted | if that means anything |
| 22:40.42 | joevano | breaks out his 2 sided die |
| 22:40.55 | blast007 | tw1sted: if you picked axiom higher than judgment, it does ;) |
| 22:41.11 | blast007 | first pick = 3 points, second pick = 2 points, third pick = 1 point |
| 22:41.44 | BulletCatcher | I suppose I should ask: where is the poll? I don't see it on the forums. |
| 22:41.53 | Constitution | you would think steel tanks wouldn't fly into the air in pieces when a water balloon hits them |
| 22:41.54 | JeffM | we didn't post it there |
| 22:42.02 | JeffM | send him the super sekret link |
| 22:42.29 | JeffM | https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1woYQiY1tq6kuJzkbb4YvEGl_pn35m5sGCGX0Z6-Rqbc/viewform |
| 22:42.56 | JeffM | Constitution, ok then I'll have to make a better explosion |
| 22:43.34 | mebigfatguy | silly tank game... .. funny |
| 22:43.43 | blast007 | world's smallest nuclear explosion |
| 22:43.59 | JeffM | BulletCatcher, we debated about the forums and decided it would get too noisy and confusing so we did interested parties here |
| 22:45.59 | joevano | if it swings things one way or the other... I actually know 5 GitHub employees, and actually run a mailing list (MongoMapper) with one of them ;-) |
| 22:46.08 | JeffM | Constitution, or is that a mandate to add health? |
| 22:47.11 | JeffM | I think blast007 just dosn't want the git zealouts to win |
| 22:47.18 | blast007 | ;) |
| 22:47.19 | joevano | in otherwords, I am biased |
| 22:47.36 | blast007 | I'm more stubborn than biased |
| 22:47.41 | joevano | hehe |
| 22:47.44 | JeffM | and to me I secretly wish github sucked, but after having used it I can't say it does |
| 22:48.18 | JeffM | so in the end I think we are all actualy 'ok' with github |
| 22:48.39 | JeffM | it seems to be the more popular service |
| 22:48.46 | joevano | there is actually a GitHub office here in South Bend, they bought the entire company |
| 22:49.09 | JeffM | did they open a church of linus? |
| 22:49.27 | joevano | we were already attending ;-) |
| 22:49.33 | JeffM | the biggest problem with Git is it's users ;) |
| 22:49.45 | joevano | we can be zealots |
| 22:50.02 | JeffM | do you have a moment to talk about ponies? |
| 22:50.04 | joevano | and no one else understands |
| 22:50.34 | JeffM | do you have a git sticker on your car? |
| 22:51.14 | blast007 | <img src="larry_the_cable_guy.jpeg" title="Git 'er done!" /> |
| 22:51.44 | joevano | no.. but I do have an octocot on my MacBook Air |
| 22:52.20 | JeffM | I need to replace the sticker on my macbook |
| 22:52.24 | joevano | ponies... these? http://bzsupreme.com |
| 22:52.37 | JeffM | yup! |
| 22:52.57 | JeffM | AppleJack is best ponie! |
| 22:54.08 | joevano | I'm partial to FlutterShy |
| 22:54.22 | JeffM | flutershy is nicest pony |
| 22:54.25 | blast007 | I like trains |
| 22:57.09 | JeffM | but go ahead and assume github unless someone screams |
| 22:57.19 | joevano | you know what I hate.. the MagSafe2... can't move without having to reconnect it... it has the "break away" part DOWN |
| 22:58.07 | joevano | worst part of the new MBA |
| 22:58.07 | JeffM | oh it has to come all the way out and back in before it charges again/ |
| 22:58.12 | JeffM | I have the older one |
| 22:58.30 | JeffM | I didn't like that the new one stuck out from the laptop instead of being paralel to it like the last one |
| 22:59.05 | joevano | yeah that sucks too... but now they have some easy ways to make it better |
| 22:59.38 | joevano | the 12+ hour battery life makes it worth the pain though |
| 23:00.01 | JeffM | but then the end of my adapter is beat to hell, I wraped it in heat shrink tube |
| 23:00.27 | JeffM | I don't have an air so I get about 6-8 |
| 23:02.18 | BulletCatcher | I am still trying to figure out what benefit there could be from forking BZFlag beyond having DNS control and a shiny new repo. |
| 23:02.40 | JeffM | changes to services, redo things correctly |
| 23:03.09 | JeffM | make some other changes, like remove mouse cursor, change menus |
| 23:03.14 | blast007 | removing a stigma.. |
| 23:03.23 | JeffM | fresh start |
| 23:03.27 | joevano | the ability to move forward |
| 23:03.54 | JeffM | making a company for it that dosn't have anything related to an atari property in it :) |
| 23:04.49 | JeffM | maybe the addition of ramps later ;) |
| 23:05.39 | blast007 | how would ramps work exactly? would that mean that tanks would topple over if they drive off the edge of a box? |
| 23:05.58 | JeffM | I can conceive of a way to not make that happen |
| 23:06.07 | JeffM | do some contraints on what gravity can do |
| 23:06.14 | JeffM | it would require some testing |
| 23:06.35 | JeffM | my hope is to do something like what I am thinking as part of my school project to see how it plays |
| 23:06.46 | JeffM | is giving tanks wheels now |
| 23:08.12 | joevano | this seems appropriate http://shop.github.com/products/fork-you-shirt-mens-medium |
| 23:11.50 | BulletCatcher | I don't see how forking will make it any easier to change services, the mouse cursor, or menus. |
| 23:13.14 | JeffM | it will break the end user expectation that it work like bzflag has worked in the past |
| 23:14.12 | BulletCatcher | That is very optimistic. |
| 23:14.57 | JeffM | possibly |
| 23:17.03 | joevano | actually forking has a history of sparking change |
| 23:17.55 | joevano | though generally it is seen as a very bad thing initially to the community |
| 23:18.57 | BulletCatcher | It is hard to reliably speak for such a diverse set of people as the BZFlag community, but I suspect that most of them are fairly content with things roughly as they are. |
| 23:18.59 | BulletCatcher | (The malcontents are long gone.) |
| 23:19.51 | BulletCatcher | For those who *are* content, there would be little incentive to move to some new game unless the old one is shut down. |
| 23:19.55 | blast007 | they're content with the game slowly slipping into extinction if it means it works the same |
| 23:20.08 | joevano | I would not disagree with that statement, but who actually likes change before it happens? |
| 23:20.27 | BulletCatcher | What are the plans for supporting both BZFlag and the new game in parallel? |
| 23:21.14 | JeffM | if people are happy the way bzflag is then it can stay the way it is |
| 23:21.28 | joevano | and probably will |
| 23:21.37 | blast007 | well, the idea was that the new game would initially have a different database |
| 23:22.05 | blast007 | but I was thinking of then later migrating the old data, but I dunno.. needs discussion though |
| 23:22.20 | JeffM | it is techincaly your data |
| 23:23.01 | Constitution | all of our 55,000 users? ;) |
| 23:23.24 | JeffM | he has auth logs from the list server |
| 23:23.29 | JeffM | we can pick the actives |
| 23:23.47 | Constitution | I guess the BZBB only lists 26,227 actually |
| 23:23.56 | blast007 | I think about half of those are inactive or spam accounts ;) |
| 23:24.03 | Constitution | even though the latest BZID is 56263 |
| 23:24.26 | joevano | many have never been activated is my guess |
| 23:24.58 | JeffM | probably a decent time to purge older then 2 months and never activated |
| 23:25.02 | blast007 | yeah, there were like 15000 accounts that were never activated |
| 23:25.14 | blast007 | the new system would not use the forum as the authentication source either |
| 23:25.35 | blast007 | the forum account would be a feature you can activate from the player portal |
| 23:25.39 | *** join/#bzflag ahs3- (~ahs3-@adsl-065-005-193-158.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 23:25.39 | JeffM | yeah we are going to tie it to deviant art accounts |
| 23:25.41 | blast007 | and we'd have some SSO feature |
| 23:25.44 | blast007 | heh |
| 23:26.23 | Constitution | in-game registration? |
| 23:26.33 | blast007 | ideally, yes |
| 23:34.02 | BulletCatcher | I could see some long term value if the plan were to build a new game on top of a 3rd party engine, but starting "fresh" with the current code base would retain most of the baggage that holds us back now. |
| 23:35.10 | JeffM | nobody wanted onboard with the rewrite |
| 23:40.49 | blast007 | BulletCatcher: why do you feel that forking is a bad idea? |