| 02:12.07 | *** join/#bzflag ahs3- (~ahs3-@adsl-065-005-193-158.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 02:58.26 | *** join/#bzflag jeffm (~jeffm@cpe-76-167-236-199.socal.res.rr.com) |
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| 02:58.26 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v jeffm] by ChanServ |
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| 04:21.05 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v jeffm] by ChanServ |
| 04:49.09 | *** join/#bzflag swigg (~swigg@bzflag/player/Swigg) |
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| 06:33.21 | allejo | does the (UNKNOWN) bug still occur or would a plug-in cause that? |
| 06:33.36 | allejo | when a callsign doesn't appear to a client but the player is still there |
| 06:56.35 | BulletCatcher | Have you seen it recently? |
| 06:56.36 | BulletCatcher | I think bzfs now requires players to be fully joined before they can talk. |
| 07:10.29 | allejo | i just saw it today while testing a plugin. player disappeared completely from my client and they couldn't shoot me |
| 07:11.23 | BulletCatcher | I haven't heard of that happening. |
| 07:11.51 | BulletCatcher | Does the plugin mess with player attributes? |
| 07:13.38 | allejo | nope, none |
| 07:13.50 | allejo | it only accesses a player record but that's it |
| 07:14.50 | BulletCatcher | Did the server log anything interesting? |
| 07:17.14 | allejo | server didn't log anything or notice anything |
| 07:17.40 | allejo | the server did segfault and gave out this later on but i don't think it's related: http://pastebin.com/HqFmRYp5 |
| 07:20.31 | BulletCatcher | In that traceback, bzfs was sending a "remove player" message. |
| 07:21.00 | BulletCatcher | Perhaps it got confused about who left when. |
| 07:22.21 | allejo | should I look into this further? |
| 07:23.16 | BulletCatcher | If you can reproduce it we would certainly like to fix it. |
| 07:24.06 | allejo | alright, i'll try to reproduce it tomorrow morning |
| 07:25.00 | BulletCatcher | If you'll rebuild with --enable-debug the tracebacks will be more informative. |
| 07:27.42 | allejo | will do |
| 07:40.36 | *** join/#bzflag meeba (~lamer@c-75-71-180-64.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 07:51.05 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (~josh@bzflag/developer/Constitution) |
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| 11:30.12 | blast007 | cool. two out of three of our DNS servers for bzflag.org are down. ;) |
| 11:59.13 | blast007 | three out of four, actually, since a third one (the primary) isn't actually listed as a name server |
| 14:19.40 | BulletCatcher | Part of the DNS problem is that brlcad's bzflag.bz domain no longer exists. |
| 14:20.01 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (~frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 14:27.02 | Constitution | ~dns bzflag.bz |
| 14:27.29 | brlcad | it exists and is running nicely |
| 14:27.49 | brlcad | if there's an issue, it's because DNS was repointed just a few days ago |
| 14:28.27 | BulletCatcher | I get no response to "dig @66.118.151.70 ns bzflag.bz". |
| 14:28.28 | brlcad | bind isn't yet migrated, happening later today actually |
| 14:29.04 | BulletCatcher | Also, "whois bzflag.bz" says it doesn't exist. |
| 14:29.10 | brlcad | I can repoint the domain back if it's a resolving failure |
| 14:29.22 | brlcad | whois doesn't search .bz by default for some implementations |
| 14:30.32 | BulletCatcher | Is whois.belizenic.bz not the correct whois server? |
| 14:31.10 | BulletCatcher | Your old host 63.246.136.16 refuses queries for bzflag.bz. |
| 14:31.59 | brlcad | yep, it only responds to the domains it's authoritative for |
| 14:32.45 | brlcad | just updated dns for bzflag.bz to resolve back to 63.246.136.16 for now until our bind upgrade issues are sorted out |
| 14:36.40 | brlcad | the registrar was transferred a couple months ago, there may be an error in the whois record |
| 14:37.35 | BulletCatcher | Changing the bzflag.bz A record doesn't help bzflag.org, which delegates to bz.bzflag.bz. |
| 14:38.58 | brlcad | was just fixing that too |
| 14:39.06 | brlcad | should be all good now |
| 14:40.19 | brlcad | this should all be moot later today |
| 14:40.50 | brlcad | it was just not as fast as copying the config files over, bind incompatibility |
| 14:41.24 | brlcad | had a lot of rules in to prevent DNS escalation attacks (something twarted last year) |
| 14:41.47 | brlcad | taking a bit to figure out what they translate to |
| 14:42.23 | Constitution | wonders what a DNS escalation attack is |
| 14:46.36 | BulletCatcher | I can see that bz.bzflag.bz is working for bzflag.org and bzflag.net again. |
| 14:46.39 | BulletCatcher | Thanks, brlcad. |
| 14:46.56 | BulletCatcher | That leaves only ns.mecworks.com as broken. |
| 14:51.32 | brlcad | that one has been broken for many months iirc |
| 14:51.57 | BulletCatcher | It was working a week or two ago, the last time I checked. |
| 14:52.25 | brlcad | ah, maybe intermittent -- I noticed it many months back and then again a few weeks later |
| 14:52.28 | brlcad | maybe intermittent |
| 15:30.42 | BulletCatcher | The whois server at whois.belizenic.bz has data for nic.bz and other .bz domains, but not bzflag.bz. |
| 15:30.43 | BulletCatcher | The web interface at http://www.nic.bz/whois.php *does* have bzflag.bz data, at least. |
| 15:30.55 | blast007 | BulletCatcher: technically two name servers are "broken" at the moment, if you count one of them not being listed |
| 15:31.42 | blast007 | dunno if that was intentional or not, though |
| 15:31.53 | blast007 | the primary nameserver isn't listed |
| 15:31.58 | BulletCatcher | Not having an NS record for ns1.rikers.org is probably intentional. |
| 15:32.02 | blast007 | k |
| 15:32.33 | BulletCatcher | That configuration is known as "hidden master" and is often used to protect it somewhat. |
| 15:38.01 | *** join/#bzflag jeffm (~jeffm@cpe-76-167-236-199.socal.res.rr.com) |
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| 15:38.01 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v jeffm] by ChanServ |
| 15:39.09 | brlcad | BulletCatcher: I'll investigate the whois record, but dig -t NS bzflag.bz does resolve correctly |
| 15:41.01 | BulletCatcher | Yup. My earlier comment about it not existing was based on the lack of whois server results, and not recognizing the *.name.com nameservers as legitimate. |
| 15:44.04 | brlcad | yeah, I got that .. I just find it really curious that NS records are coming up without the whois record |
| 15:44.47 | BulletCatcher | It seems that the whois web server has access to the real database. |
| 15:45.16 | brlcad | I suspect it's something peculiar with the .bz tld altogether, but something is still awry |
| 15:45.44 | brlcad | more odd, even the registrar's web interface (http://who.is) returns inconsistent information |
| 15:45.53 | brlcad | no registration but the site is up! |
| 15:46.00 | brlcad | http://who.is/whois/bzflag.bz |
| 15:46.40 | BulletCatcher | If I had known, I could have stopped by the their office to let them know last month when I was in Belize City. :-) |
| 16:05.28 | alezakos | Any admins on purple panzer's servers here? cheater under the name 'bachus' is online |
| 16:23.42 | kierra | same nick that was banned on gu earlier. |
| 16:24.02 | kierra | dynamic ip as well |
| 16:25.33 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (~JeffM@107-209-61-105.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
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| 16:25.34 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v JeffM] by ChanServ |
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| 16:26.49 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v JeffM] by ChanServ |
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| 16:49.18 | *** join/#bzflag swigg_ (~swigg@nsc69.38.101-238.newsouth.net) |
| 16:58.36 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker) |
| 16:58.37 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:30.11 | BulletCatcher | TimRiker: bzflag.org DNS server ns.mecworks.com is unreachable. |
| 17:30.13 | BulletCatcher | If you can make sure the owner knows, it might speed up its return to service. |
| 18:22.07 | *** join/#bzflag khonkhortisan (~kyle@c-76-121-156-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:37.43 | *** join/#bzflag swigg (~swigg@bzflag/player/Swigg) |
| 18:38.11 | swigg | Oh no! did the domain expire AGAIN? |
| 18:38.25 | JeffM | no |
| 18:38.35 | swigg | Jeff!!! Long time no talk! |
| 18:38.40 | swigg | How are you? |
| 18:38.53 | JeffM | DNS server problems, we are trying to get TimRiker to look into it |
| 18:38.59 | JeffM | I'm good, how are you |
| 18:39.10 | swigg | Not bad; Life is getting happier |
| 18:39.14 | JeffM | cool |
| 18:39.22 | swigg | Bought a nice car with tax money |
| 18:39.28 | JeffM | sweet |
| 18:39.30 | swigg | only 11 years old |
| 18:40.10 | JeffM | what make? |
| 18:40.28 | *** join/#bzflag alezakos (~kongr45gp@unaffiliated/alezakos) |
| 18:40.35 | swigg | Not bad; Life is getting happierWanted something for the kids; 2002 Nissan Quest Sport |
| 18:40.45 | swigg | oops! Must have up arrowed |
| 18:41.03 | JeffM | the nissans should last forever |
| 18:41.05 | swigg | Think I'll put a MAME32 machine in it |
| 18:41.17 | swigg | Yeah, but ALWAYS run synthetic oil |
| 18:41.26 | swigg | Castrol Edge is the best |
| 18:41.41 | swigg | otherwise the engine ends up looking like a coal mine inside |
| 18:41.50 | swigg | same for Toyotas |
| 18:42.40 | swigg | Can't you use an alternate DNS? |
| 18:42.52 | JeffM | we don't controll the DNS server |
| 18:43.05 | JeffM | but we are in discussions with TimRiker on ways to make it better |
| 18:43.22 | JeffM | spread out the backup hosts, use a zone file in a DVCS etc.. |
| 18:43.28 | swigg | drive by his house slowly several times day and nihjt |
| 18:43.59 | JeffM | he will respond at some point, he's just busy |
| 18:47.41 | swigg | JeffM: With all the game distribution, any chance of getting BZ on steam? |
| 18:47.52 | JeffM | it was discussed |
| 18:47.55 | JeffM | it'd be a big change |
| 18:48.10 | swigg | couldn't you do it as a packaged VM? |
| 18:48.19 | JeffM | huh? |
| 18:48.32 | JeffM | we run nativly on all the platforms steam supports |
| 18:48.40 | JeffM | the changes would be with the support structure from steam |
| 18:48.55 | JeffM | I also do not know if they offer games for free |
| 18:49.10 | swigg | It might seem that it would be a good way to stir interest. |
| 18:49.11 | JeffM | they would replace our entire authentication/list/hosting solution |
| 18:49.26 | JeffM | there are other thigns I would personaly try first |
| 18:50.21 | swigg | considering that Habbo Hotel seems to have a larger fanbase. (I know they aren't on steam) |
| 18:50.26 | JeffM | but it's an interseting idea to ponder |
| 18:50.49 | JeffM | I'd like to wait and see how other open source games do now that it's public on linux |
| 18:51.10 | swigg | Maybe that new open source game console. |
| 18:51.22 | JeffM | no that's android based |
| 18:51.27 | swigg | that thing could kill the xbox |
| 18:51.31 | JeffM | it won't |
| 18:51.36 | swigg | Yeah, something about direct 3d |
| 18:51.58 | JeffM | it dosn't have enough money behind it |
| 18:53.01 | swigg | still, it's a good start. open office sucked at first. |
| 18:53.17 | JeffM | and it is nowhere near overtaking office ;) |
| 18:53.26 | JeffM | but yes it's good that it exists |
| 18:53.38 | swigg | correct; all my corporate clients love it, though |
| 18:53.50 | JeffM | for bzflag personaly I think we need to do a lot of cleanup work before we try to increase the playerbase activly |
| 18:54.14 | JeffM | I have had it mangle too many documents from school to be useful |
| 18:54.30 | swigg | yeah, it would be great to get sound playback fixed for win7 |
| 18:54.33 | JeffM | and getting office for 20$ a year made it an easy choice |
| 18:54.49 | JeffM | I have no problem with sound on windows 7 or 8 |
| 18:55.00 | JeffM | is there a bug report for a problem with it? |
| 18:55.05 | swigg | lucky. I have had trouble from vista on up |
| 18:55.16 | swigg | Blast knows about it. |
| 18:55.30 | blast007 | about what? |
| 18:55.40 | swigg | seemingly the hardware has little effect on it. My i5 just can't do it |
| 18:55.45 | JeffM | if there isn't a bug report then it dosn't exist |
| 18:55.48 | blast007 | you can't get sound? |
| 18:55.52 | JeffM | you can't assume someone you told will remember |
| 18:55.54 | swigg | The issues with sound on later gen windows |
| 18:56.00 | blast007 | what "issues"? |
| 18:56.07 | swigg | Delayed/missing sounds |
| 18:56.18 | JeffM | my desktop and laptop are 15 and run fine |
| 18:56.19 | blast007 | didn't that happen on XP as well? |
| 18:56.21 | swigg | like the GM alarm |
| 18:56.23 | JeffM | you really should report it |
| 18:56.31 | swigg | No. XP was flawlwss, even on atom systems |
| 18:56.32 | JeffM | record a video so we can see |
| 18:56.41 | blast007 | shrugs |
| 18:56.46 | blast007 | I really don't play that much ;) |
| 18:57.08 | swigg | The only dev I see on a regular basis is Bullet Catcher |
| 18:57.39 | blast007 | join my minecraft server and you'll see me more :P |
| 18:57.49 | JeffM | I have never heard anyone complain about sound problems and the majority of players are on windows |
| 18:57.53 | JeffM | other then you |
| 18:57.57 | swigg | Minecraft is something I just don't see me doing |
| 18:58.11 | JeffM | because you don't like fun? ;) |
| 18:58.18 | swigg | Jeff: most folks don't know who to address issues to |
| 18:58.30 | blast007 | swigg: unlikely |
| 18:58.35 | swigg | Nor have they heard about IRC; They think IRC is something new |
| 18:58.38 | JeffM | really? forums, here, sourceforge |
| 18:58.48 | JeffM | they seem to do fine talking about all other kinds of things |
| 18:58.50 | swigg | Those places are for smart folks |
| 18:59.05 | JeffM | not from what i've read on the forums sometimes |
| 18:59.09 | blast007 | swigg: the forums have lots of people that don't fit that description |
| 18:59.12 | JeffM | then get them to report it |
| 18:59.15 | JeffM | PLEASE |
| 18:59.37 | swigg | Ok; I can do a capture; Heck; I'd even send you my laptop |
| 18:59.50 | JeffM | that would be unwise |
| 18:59.56 | swigg | I only have 7 |
| 19:00.09 | swigg | all Lenovo, core2 or better |
| 19:00.30 | JeffM | you do know that some sounds are SUPOSED to be delayed right? |
| 19:00.35 | JeffM | we do our own dopler |
| 19:01.05 | swigg | This is not intended; often the GM alarm is missing or the flag cap sound happens 5+ seconds later |
| 19:01.09 | JeffM | well make a video and we can see |
| 19:01.16 | swigg | when I downgraded to XP it disappeared |
| 19:01.27 | JeffM | could be buffer limits |
| 19:01.33 | JeffM | or old DX drivers |
| 19:01.38 | JeffM | make a video if you can |
| 19:01.50 | swigg | DX9, Hi def audio bus |
| 19:02.00 | JeffM | we don't address DX9 tho |
| 19:02.03 | JeffM | we use an older interface |
| 19:02.08 | blast007 | are we using DirectSound or DirectSound3D? |
| 19:02.11 | JeffM | could be time to upgrade, or move to OpenAL |
| 19:02.13 | swigg | all drivers from either lenovo or the sound manufacturer |
| 19:02.14 | JeffM | DirectSound |
| 19:02.18 | JeffM | we still do our own 3d |
| 19:02.35 | JeffM | so we may run into chanel or mixing limits |
| 19:03.02 | swigg | It even happened on hardware buffered sound and software, no diff |
| 19:03.21 | JeffM | we don't use any of the hardware features |
| 19:03.29 | JeffM | all our mixing and buffering is done on the CPU |
| 19:03.35 | swigg | thought that was seamless with the drivers |
| 19:03.45 | JeffM | we write a mixed stream to the primary output buffer |
| 19:03.45 | blast007 | I don't think Windows 7 even does accelerated DirectSound/DirectSound3D |
| 19:03.51 | swigg | kinda like hardware transcoding |
| 19:04.01 | blast007 | they kinda gimped DS3D |
| 19:04.04 | JeffM | it is seamless if you use the right API |
| 19:04.09 | JeffM | we don't use the right API |
| 19:04.17 | JeffM | we use the same CPU mixer on all OSs |
| 19:05.10 | swigg | oddly enough, multimedia is almost unworkable on XP, so I cringed when I had to use Vista on my HTPC |
| 19:05.15 | JeffM | still I'd like to try and duplicate it |
| 19:05.46 | JeffM | but really the cleanup I was talking about is more user experince stuff, making the game help people learn how to play it |
| 19:05.52 | JeffM | and making more things consistent |
| 19:06.23 | JeffM | right now a new player isn't always clear about why they can shoot red and blue tanks but not black tanks |
| 19:06.25 | swigg | One thing that may help, automatic key mapping when you plug in a game controller |
| 19:06.51 | JeffM | that can be dificult, there are many different confugurations |
| 19:07.01 | JeffM | but that would be a good ease of use feature |
| 19:07.07 | JeffM | to have a bunch of known good defaults |
| 19:08.34 | swigg | well, I mean maybe have a sub menu for game controllers |
| 19:08.48 | JeffM | sure |
| 19:10.19 | JeffM | less important then other stuff IMHO but not a bad thing to have. |
| 19:13.19 | blast007 | getting mouse input working in the menu would be better to work on ;) |
| 19:14.12 | swigg | A compelling argument against that is that no one plays a PS3 or Xbox with a mouse and KB |
| 19:14.14 | khonkhortisan | I tried that, it needs a better font system |
| 19:14.28 | blast007 | khonkhortisan: like the one in 2.99.x? :) |
| 19:14.30 | JeffM | yeah cleaning up our GUI and input inconsistencies would be good |
| 19:14.31 | khonkhortisan | yeah |
| 19:14.48 | JeffM | swigg, and nobody on those plays bzflag ;) |
| 19:14.57 | swigg | I do. |
| 19:15.05 | JeffM | then you are special |
| 19:15.06 | khonkhortisan | Getting the size of text gives you the width of the text both directions from the start of it |
| 19:15.12 | blast007 | you play BZFlag on a PS3? |
| 19:15.16 | swigg | I never rode the short bus!! |
| 19:15.30 | swigg | No; I have a USB PS3 controller. |
| 19:16.11 | JeffM | I don't think the average player uses a controller |
| 19:16.23 | blast007 | mouse or keyboard is the most common |
| 19:16.25 | JeffM | supporting them is a good thing |
| 19:16.26 | swigg | I thinkk most folks don't realize how to do it |
| 19:16.42 | swigg | anyone who runs MAME could/would do it |
| 19:16.45 | JeffM | no they do, PC gamepads and joysticks exist |
| 19:17.07 | JeffM | the fact that you use one for a console does not make you unique in pad use |
| 19:18.46 | JeffM | we do provide some pretty good support for gamepads and sticks |
| 19:19.03 | JeffM | even do hats now and force feedback |
| 19:19.33 | blast007 | we do lack stuff like the ability to tweak dead zones, but generally the OS/driver can do that |
| 19:19.41 | JeffM | yeah |
| 19:20.02 | JeffM | I would like to see the visual feedback for all 3 input systems be combined |
| 19:20.04 | swigg | It would be nice if the precision option was extended to game controllers as well |
| 19:20.07 | JeffM | and not look like a mouse cursor |
| 19:20.18 | blast007 | swigg: what precision option? |
| 19:20.28 | JeffM | that'd be part of it, they should all have similar sensitivty controls |
| 19:20.29 | swigg | You know, you hit "a" |
| 19:20.40 | swigg | accuracy? |
| 19:20.41 | blast007 | the slow keyboard mode |
| 19:20.46 | swigg | exactly |
| 19:20.56 | blast007 | you have an analog controller. use it. :P |
| 19:21.03 | khonkhortisan | JeffM, so when you move your joystick/keyboard, the movement indicator moves the same as if it was the mouse? |
| 19:21.08 | JeffM | our current mouse sensitivy isn't sensitivity, it's modifying th ehitbox |
| 19:21.11 | swigg | that way you could use the cross pad instead of having to use the analog stick |
| 19:21.15 | JeffM | khonkhortisan, yes |
| 19:21.39 | JeffM | get rid of the cursor and the boxes and make indicators showing your current speeds |
| 19:21.40 | khonkhortisan | that would make using joystick on jumping skillz easier |
| 19:21.44 | blast007 | swigg: at that point why not just use the keyboard? |
| 19:21.48 | khonkhortisan | I could see how fast I was actually going |
| 19:21.51 | JeffM | it would make a lot of things more consistent |
| 19:22.06 | swigg | Blast007: Because that would defeat the ease of use with the gamepad |
| 19:22.24 | JeffM | yeah I would make the UI look like a big U intead of the current box, and the vertical sides of the U would be your forward/backward speed |
| 19:22.31 | JeffM | the bottom would be your turn speed |
| 19:22.33 | swigg | someone else mentioned that in the forums, IIRC |
| 19:22.54 | JeffM | it would have markers for your current speed and for your desired speed so you can see acceleration effects. |
| 19:23.18 | swigg | That would make laser aiming easier using a gamepad |
| 19:23.36 | JeffM | keyboard would move the desired markers to specific points, mouse and pads would give you more granular controll |
| 19:23.45 | swigg | it's nearly impossible to do so now; You get either 100% movement or none, with no minimum threshold |
| 19:23.49 | JeffM | and the sensitivy options would just change how fast those desired speeds would change |
| 19:24.16 | khonkhortisan | I'm not so sure about the markers, but I like the bars |
| 19:24.20 | JeffM | then we can put an actual target reticle in the center to aim with instead of a box that gets a mouse cursor in it |
| 19:24.33 | JeffM | I have drawn mockups before |
| 19:24.44 | swigg | Yeah, eliminate the pointer arrow |
| 19:24.45 | JeffM | the bars move to meet the markers as you accelerate |
| 19:25.13 | JeffM | then compas goes over the top of the U and altitude off to one side |
| 19:25.36 | JeffM | and you let clients set how big the U is and that dosn't affect input speed at all, just display |
| 19:25.47 | *** join/#bzflag rak64 (~rak64@24.133.193.118) |
| 19:25.48 | blast007 | what we really need are some boss fights |
| 19:25.49 | blast007 | and hats |
| 19:25.56 | rak64 | hi |
| 19:25.59 | blast007 | hello |
| 19:26.03 | JeffM | hats would rock |
| 19:26.10 | rak64 | there is actually an cheater on apocalypse |
| 19:26.23 | khonkhortisan | does the name start with pp-? |
| 19:26.25 | JeffM | you sould let the mofo channel know then |
| 19:26.31 | rak64 | ip 63.152.113.71 |
| 19:26.50 | JeffM | we don't manage individual servers |
| 19:27.01 | rak64 | name bachus- do everything -flaps no respond for bullets |
| 19:27.11 | blast007 | rak64: they're talking about it in ##planetmofo |
| 19:27.16 | JeffM | go there |
| 19:27.19 | JeffM | this isn't the place |
| 19:27.19 | khonkhortisan | bzflag can already take hats as buttons, it shouldn't be too hard to make them axes too |
| 19:27.39 | JeffM | khonkhortisan, not hats for people, hats for tanks |
| 19:27.43 | khonkhortisan | oh |
| 19:28.13 | blast007 | axes? how about ice picks or shovels too. ;) |
| 19:28.19 | swigg | Cedar Rapids, Iowa |
| 19:28.24 | JeffM | glass swords |
| 19:29.02 | swigg | Light Sabers |
| 19:29.20 | JeffM | copyright, Lazer Sword |
| 19:29.20 | khonkhortisan | just make a theme in the style of ComBots |
| 19:29.21 | swigg | we need Biplanes, too |
| 19:29.56 | JeffM | khonkhortisan, the joke/concept is to sell appearance items to players to raise money for code bounties |
| 19:30.08 | khonkhortisan | ooh, code bounties! |
| 19:30.28 | swigg | Send them a T-shirt; You probably have a few left over |
| 19:30.36 | JeffM | a couple |
| 19:30.55 | JeffM | code bounties need a company and an income stream behind them |
| 19:30.59 | JeffM | it's all dooable |
| 19:31.42 | khonkhortisan | From my experience in another game, I'd like to warn you that anything you can buy that is also actually useful in-game should also be aquirable by skill. |
| 19:31.48 | swigg | drink vouchers @ applebee's |
| 19:32.03 | JeffM | khonkhortisan, thats why it's appearance items |
| 19:32.12 | khonkhortisan | good |
| 19:32.13 | JeffM | things that don't affect play |
| 19:32.15 | blast007 | khonkhortisan: so in other words, no "pay to win" :) |
| 19:32.16 | JeffM | pay to win sucks |
| 19:32.42 | JeffM | the closest thing that I'd come to that would be a "members only server" where if you are a supporter you can play |
| 19:32.55 | JeffM | it dosn't make you play better then anyone else, it's just a place to play with other supporters |
| 19:33.35 | khonkhortisan | pay to win doesn't bother me, as long as you can buy regular game items. It's when I can't get a backpack in a dungeon-type game for free that it bothers me |
| 19:33.53 | JeffM | pay to win dosn't fit the bzflag style or goals |
| 19:34.04 | JeffM | the only reason to get money is to support further open development |
| 19:34.53 | khonkhortisan | besides, -passwd is the easiest way to win |
| 19:35.03 | JeffM | indeed |
| 19:35.40 | JeffM | if we went to a system that had performance items per registered user, we'd have to run all the servers ourselves and not do user hosting |
| 19:36.24 | JeffM | otherwise then any server could just be changed to give out the items to anyone and they would provide no worth |
| 19:36.25 | khonkhortisan | it could be per server per user, that's how minecraft does it |
| 19:36.45 | JeffM | yeah but we arn't making a game to make server owners money ;) |
| 19:36.51 | khonkhortisan | oh |
| 19:37.04 | JeffM | they can do that now with plugins |
| 19:37.13 | I_Died_Once | :( |
| 19:37.17 | I_Died_Once | I resent that comment |
| 19:37.35 | JeffM | you have had plenty of changes to make money, I've given you many ideas ;) |
| 19:37.38 | swigg | If the server owners were in it for the money in the first place there would be no servers |
| 19:37.39 | khonkhortisan | /pay 1ยข; /flag give WG |
| 19:37.46 | JeffM | and you have no problem making plugins |
| 19:38.00 | JeffM | yeah they are in it for the fun |
| 19:38.06 | I_Died_Once | almost had an actualy buyer for billboard space not long ago |
| 19:38.10 | I_Died_Once | then the guy vanished |
| 19:38.12 | JeffM | so we talor our money things to supporting development and increasingof the fun |
| 19:38.21 | JeffM | I_Died_Once, advertising is for chumps |
| 19:38.25 | JeffM | sell mofo bucks |
| 19:38.27 | I_Died_Once | I know, right |
| 19:38.29 | JeffM | spend them on flags |
| 19:38.41 | khonkhortisan | geno is very strong there |
| 19:38.48 | JeffM | 800 Mofobucks for 10$ |
| 19:39.04 | swigg | mofo bucks, reddemable at your local house of ill repute |
| 19:39.05 | khonkhortisan | 2000 for 20$ |
| 19:39.12 | I_Died_Once | theres a bad joke to be made there |
| 19:39.18 | I_Died_Once | I'm not making it |
| 19:39.20 | JeffM | khonkhortisan, no, always use a factor of 80 |
| 19:39.30 | JeffM | it's close enough to 100 to make them think they are getting more |
| 19:39.32 | khonkhortisan | What is the purpose of a changing price, anyway? |
| 19:39.53 | JeffM | 80 points dosn't look like 1$ |
| 19:40.02 | JeffM | 100 points does |
| 19:40.06 | swigg | there is a good purpose: You can't give away tickets, but if you sell them they disappear |
| 19:40.29 | JeffM | you will sell more things if you use a factor of 80, it's proven |
| 19:40.46 | JeffM | human psycology is wierd |
| 19:41.09 | khonkhortisan | it may be true, but that's the sort of thing you're not supposed to know |
| 19:41.11 | blast007 | a multiple of 80? |
| 19:41.15 | JeffM | yeah |
| 19:41.19 | blast007 | 25 * 80 = 2000 ;) |
| 19:41.39 | JeffM | yeah so he shoudl charge 25$ |
| 19:41.41 | JeffM | not 20 |
| 19:42.04 | JeffM | unless he has a fixed Credit Card charge |
| 19:42.16 | JeffM | then you can give bonus points in larger batches |
| 19:42.19 | swigg | like carnival tickets sold in blocks, always make them have some left over |
| 19:42.22 | blast007 | ah, I see what you mean |
| 19:42.35 | blast007 | 80 * USD = MFB |
| 19:42.49 | JeffM | 1USD = 80 mofo points |
| 19:43.01 | swigg | whose face would be on the tickets? Guy Fawkes? |
| 19:43.06 | JeffM | so when you see 400 points you don't think "oh that's 5$" |
| 19:43.10 | JeffM | you think it's 4$ |
| 19:43.32 | khonkhortisan | it seems like it should go up when it goes down |
| 19:43.42 | blast007 | Z is up |
| 19:44.11 | khonkhortisan | 1:80, 2:185, 3:290, 4:400 but it goes the other way |
| 19:44.42 | JeffM | yeah a lot of studdies have shown that people don't really notice when things get 20% smaller |
| 19:44.56 | JeffM | so you can use that to your advantage |
| 19:45.11 | khonkhortisan | 1:80, 2:160, 3:240, 4:320 |
| 19:45.30 | JeffM | 400 is 5$ |
| 19:45.48 | JeffM | but most people give it the mental value of 4$ because they see the 4 |
| 19:46.01 | blast007 | JeffM: are you on the debian games team mailing list? |
| 19:46.08 | JeffM | probably not |
| 19:46.19 | JeffM | I just hang in the channel sometimes |
| 19:46.20 | JeffM | why? |
| 19:46.29 | khonkhortisan | then when you change the 4 to 5 on the 400 purchase, they'll just assume it's tax |
| 19:46.34 | blast007 | been fun watching their discussion about steam |
| 19:47.00 | JeffM | khonkhortisan, oh when you charge them you make it very clear it's 80 points/$ |
| 19:47.08 | JeffM | they forget that when they spend them later |
| 19:47.09 | blast007 | "STEAM IS EVIL SOFTWARE!!!!!" "Why?" "BECAUSE DRM!!!!" |
| 19:47.17 | JeffM | blast007, yeah I imagine |
| 19:47.25 | JeffM | yet they want more games...... |
| 19:47.27 | blast007 | of course, I'm paraphrasing.. just a bit ;) |
| 19:47.45 | khonkhortisan | drm+cd damage=torrents |
| 19:47.49 | JeffM | change the world so food and shelter are free, then we can talk about me not making any money to do my job ;) |
| 19:48.18 | khonkhortisan | It could be made free, it just would change many other things |
| 19:48.29 | JeffM | people are not going to put popular games out on linux unless they can get paid |
| 19:48.43 | JeffM | khonkhortisan, not all games have a service component |
| 19:48.47 | blast007 | there's mainly one person on the discussion that is anti-steam, but he's not providing a very convincing argument beyond "it has DRM" |
| 19:48.54 | JeffM | heh |
| 19:49.02 | blast007 | and when asked to do so, he called the other people lazy |
| 19:49.07 | JeffM | the owner of the software can protect it however they waht |
| 19:49.17 | JeffM | and this is probalby why steam ISN'T ON DEBIAN! |
| 19:49.18 | khonkhortisan | No _you_ look up why DRM is bad |
| 19:49.19 | blast007 | "look it up yourself! it's not my job to convice you I'm right!" |
| 19:49.44 | khonkhortisan | The person making the argument is the one with the burden of proof |
| 19:49.44 | JeffM | standard internet troll then |
| 19:49.53 | JeffM | pfff when has that ever worked |
| 19:50.43 | JeffM | the world would be a very different place if people followed that rule |
| 19:51.21 | JeffM | goes to the dentist |
| 19:52.58 | khonkhortisan | curse you tracker-store! |
| 19:55.32 | khonkhortisan | If you want to disable something right, uninstall it yourself. |
| 20:00.17 | alezakos | any admins on Deadalot's servers? |
| 20:01.02 | *** join/#bzflag omron (~MSkalicky@81.19.46.234) |
| 20:04.19 | blast007 | alezakos: want to try a poll ban? |
| 20:04.26 | alezakos | just did :) |
| 20:08.07 | blast007 | alezakos: the odd thing is two other players there seem to have the same IP as the one that was poll banned... |
| 20:13.59 | khonkhortisan | was there |
| 20:24.07 | allejo | Which are deadalot's servers? |
| 20:25.41 | alezakos | era ziel map by w00t! |
| 20:30.40 | allejo | dealt with :) |
| 20:36.10 | allejo | alright. bachus banned from bzbattleground, bztank, deadalot's server, mofo |
| 20:36.54 | I_Died_Once | any purple panzer admins around? |
| 20:37.25 | I_Died_Once | bachus is on flying without wings and other cheatastic stuff |
| 20:38.38 | allejo | yea, was about to ask about panzer admins |
| 20:40.36 | alezakos | I contacted purple panzer a while ago, he told me he had just returned. probably an admin there called oejet banned his ip, but the cheater changed it |
| 20:41.59 | alezakos | bad thing is that he doesn't have the poll permission on his servers |
| 20:43.00 | allejo | any forum admin want to manually add an adin to ppanzer.admin temporarily? |
| 20:43.02 | allejo | :P |
| 20:43.06 | allejo | admin* |
| 20:45.36 | alezakos | Where did you see that ppanzer group? i don't see it |
| 20:46.30 | allejo | /grouplist |
| 20:46.46 | allejo | is off for lunch |
| 20:47.20 | alezakos | it's probably local, I can't find it on the forums |
| 20:47.29 | khonkhortisan | I look down on people who fly without wings who use a jumping sound instead of a flapping sound. |
| 20:47.36 | khonkhortisan | If you're going to cheat, at least do it right. |
| 20:47.48 | allejo | Global groups can be hidden |
| 20:47.56 | allejo | On the forum that is |
| 20:48.35 | alezakos | could be :) |
| 20:50.38 | allejo | Awww lunch is delayed :( |
| 20:54.12 | *** join/#bzflag ashvala (~ashvala@unaffiliated/ashvala) |
| 22:10.04 | *** join/#bzflag Delusional (~delusiona@unaffiliated/delusional) |
| 22:19.24 | JeffM | allejo, that would be a very big abuse of power |
| 23:19.53 | *** part/#bzflag omron (~MSkalicky@81.19.46.234) |
| 23:26.14 | *** join/#bzflag mrapple (~tony@unaffiliated/mrapple) |