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| 00:50.30 | Notify | 03BZFlag:JeffM2501 * 22589 (trunk/bzflag/MSVC/build/bzadmin.vcxproj trunk/bzflag/MSVC/build/bzflag.vcxproj trunk/bzflag/MSVC/build/fullbuild.sln): add references to regex to apps because VC10 is weird and LOVES it some managed style projects. |
| 00:57.17 | JeffM | wow that thing is pretty slow |
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| 04:30.53 | moondoggy | Hey there. |
| 04:31.05 | moondoggy | Are there any servers with games going on now? |
| 04:31.31 | moondoggy | I only know how to use the servers that come up automatically in the menu. |
| 04:32.25 | allejo | use the "Find Server" option? |
| 04:32.33 | blast007 | moondoggy: what version of the game are you using? |
| 04:33.12 | moondoggy | BZFlag client 2.0.16.20100812-DEVEL-linux-gnu-SDL |
| 04:33.45 | moondoggy | I did the "find server," but all servers have no players, at least in my listing. |
| 04:33.51 | blast007 | You'll want to build an updated version. BZFlag 2.4.x is not comatible with 2.0.x, so that's why you're not seeing any servers. |
| 04:33.52 | I_Died_Once | moondoggy - http://bzflag.org/downloads |
| 04:34.10 | moondoggy | I mean, I see servers, but none with players. |
| 04:34.17 | moondoggy | Can I just do apt-get? |
| 04:34.21 | blast007 | well, you're only seeing a few servers |
| 04:34.21 | blast007 | no |
| 04:34.29 | blast007 | are you using Debian? |
| 04:34.40 | blast007 | cuz not even Wheezy has 2.4.x in the repos |
| 04:34.53 | blast007 | 2.4.x is in the "experimental" Debian repos |
| 04:35.11 | moondoggy | I'm on Ubuntu, which I think derived from debian, but I'm not sure... |
| 04:35.18 | blast007 | then it's different |
| 04:35.22 | blast007 | which version of ubuntu? |
| 04:35.31 | Detrimental | pretty sure its in the ubuntu repos, not positive as i only use ubuntu when updating famiilys computers |
| 04:36.02 | blast007 | the newest Ubuntu has 2.4.2 |
| 04:36.03 | moondoggy | 12.04. |
| 04:36.06 | Detrimental | 2.4.2 is in official ubunu |
| 04:36.17 | blast007 | Detrimental: only in the newest |
| 04:36.18 | moondoggy | No, only 2.0 in the "software center" |
| 04:36.36 | moondoggy | ? Hmmm... Maybe apt-get can find it... |
| 04:36.39 | blast007 | moondoggy: like I said, it's in the newest repo .... |
| 04:36.44 | blast007 | newest version I mean |
| 04:36.49 | blast007 | you're on an older Ubuntu version |
| 04:37.00 | Detrimental | im using the netest linux mint and just downloaded via sofware center |
| 04:37.04 | moondoggy | Older repo version? |
| 04:37.29 | blast007 | I mistyped. read all my messages. :) |
| 04:37.39 | blast007 | Ubuntu 12.10 has BZFlag 2.4.2 |
| 04:37.47 | blast007 | You are on 12.04, which only has 2.0.16 |
| 04:38.13 | blast007 | so either upgrade your entire system to 12.10, or build your own BZFlag from the 2.4.2 sources |
| 04:38.15 | moondoggy | Oh, I see. But I can get 2.4.2 if I'm smart enough to install it, right? |
| 04:38.34 | moondoggy | I'm sticking with 12.04, because it's LTS. 12.10 is not. |
| 04:38.46 | moondoggy | Ugh. I don't know how to build from sources. |
| 04:39.08 | moondoggy | Ok, thanks. Let me look at bzflag again... Back in a minute... |
| 04:39.40 | blast007 | there *maybe* be a ppa you can add |
| 04:39.41 | Detrimental | if you know of a application to make a package from installed package i could make it not sure if ubuntu has this |
| 04:40.19 | moondoggy | Oh! |
| 04:40.23 | moondoggy | apt-get is doing it. |
| 04:40.39 | moondoggy | It's just not in the flashy "software center" |
| 04:40.59 | blast007 | apt-get will insta 2.0.16 |
| 04:41.06 | blast007 | unless you have some other source added to your system |
| 04:41.15 | blast007 | install* |
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| 04:42.35 | moondoggy | Yeah, you're right. |
| 04:42.56 | moondoggy | Is it hard to do it from source? I really need to learn to install things! |
| 04:43.18 | blast007 | we have a README.Linux |
| 04:44.56 | moondoggy | Readme in the zip file? |
| 04:45.08 | blast007 | yep |
| 04:45.25 | blast007 | tells you some things you should install for building on ubuntu |
| 04:45.32 | moondoggy | Ok, I'll fiddle. If I really screw up, you're buying me a new computer. |
| 04:46.02 | blast007 | or find a PPA with 2.4.2 |
| 04:46.12 | jeffm | if that's your attitude then how can you use linux ;) |
| 04:46.13 | blast007 | I don't see how building a game would fry your hardware though :P |
| 04:46.27 | blast007 | jeffm: because it's Ubuntu |
| 04:46.45 | jeffm | ahhh babies first linux |
| 04:47.06 | blast007 | Just like Mandrake was for me, for a few minutes :P |
| 04:47.18 | blast007 | then it was staight to Slackware |
| 04:47.30 | moondoggy | Yeah, I'm afraid of compiling. I was thoroughly discouraged on an old DEC Unix machine, and I've never gotten over it. |
| 04:47.32 | blast007 | no hand holding there |
| 04:48.17 | blast007 | moondoggy: it's basically "install the depenendencies", and then: ./autogen.sh && ./configure && make && sudo make install |
| 04:48.23 | blast007 | though uninstall the old version first |
| 04:48.38 | blast007 | sudo apt-get remove bzflag bzflag-client bzflag-server bzflag-data |
| 04:48.54 | blast007 | you won't get a shiny icon, though |
| 04:49.09 | jeffm | when is the next ubuntu release? |
| 04:49.20 | blast007 | jeffm: 12.10 already has 2.4.2 |
| 04:50.11 | jeffm | and he doesn't want to upgrade? |
| 04:50.23 | blast007 | 12.10 isn't an LTS release |
| 04:50.30 | moondoggy | Not sure why no one put it on 12.04. It's not just "older." It's the LTS, and 12.10 is not. |
| 04:50.35 | moondoggy | Yeah--what he said. |
| 04:50.51 | blast007 | moondoggy: because it wasn't packaged at the time 12.04 was released |
| 04:51.16 | jeffm | and a game machine has to be LTS? |
| 04:51.25 | blast007 | they don't update versions of software once they release the distro |
| 04:51.25 | moondoggy | I'd've thought someone smart would have put it in 12.04 repos. |
| 04:51.32 | blast007 | they don't do that |
| 04:51.53 | moondoggy | No--we just use LTS at work to save trouble with hard-to-install software. |
| 04:52.07 | moondoggy | Huh. |
| 04:52.10 | blast007 | so why you playing a game at work? |
| 04:52.27 | moondoggy | blast007, now THERE is a good question! |
| 04:52.59 | jeffm | you play games on machine that you are worried about stability on? |
| 04:54.09 | moondoggy | Bad idea? |
| 04:54.11 | blast007 | jeffm: it doesn't have to make sense! it's ubuntu! |
| 04:54.30 | moondoggy | This is what you mean by installing the dependencies? apt-get install g++ libtool automake |
| 04:54.36 | moondoggy | etc. |
| 04:54.47 | jeffm | unity is just so professional :) |
| 04:54.57 | jeffm | yeah there is a list in the read me of the ones you need |
| 04:55.26 | blast007 | moondoggy: maybe you should avoid breaking your work machine by doing things you don't understand |
| 04:56.24 | moondoggy | So I CAN break it! The thing is, if I break it, I just remove the games and then tell the IT guy it just quit on me. |
| 04:56.34 | moondoggy | IT really doesn't like me anymore. |
| 04:56.35 | blast007 | alezakos_away: kinda sorta outputs some stuff when you click the generate button: http://projects.porteighty.org/bzfs_conf/ |
| 04:56.39 | moondoggy | Ok, I think I'm doing it. |
| 04:57.02 | blast007 | alezakos_away: doesn't yet support select boxes or custom output functions, nor does it check for blank values |
| 04:58.07 | moondoggy | What can I break? Replacing a library with a different version and messing up something that needs the previous version of that library? |
| 04:58.17 | jeffm | not even that |
| 04:58.26 | jeffm | you are just pulling from your package libs |
| 04:58.45 | blast007 | moondoggy: I'm sure you'll think of something ;) |
| 04:58.47 | moondoggy | I'm guessing that putting new stuff on shouldn't do any damage, whereas replacing will? |
| 04:59.09 | jeffm | you would have to change much more then an apt get to replace a lib |
| 04:59.21 | jeffm | you'd have to change the repositories |
| 04:59.35 | blast007 | two of the most dangerous things in the world: a programmer with a screwdriver, and a user with an idea. |
| 04:59.59 | blast007 | glances over at his electric screwdriver |
| 05:00.15 | jeffm | pfft, get a sonic one and we'll talk |
| 05:00.21 | blast007 | :P |
| 05:01.01 | moondoggy | That's funny. |
| 05:01.09 | jeffm | when is the next LTS? |
| 05:03.44 | moondoggy | Ok, so I'm getting somewhere, but "sudo make distclean" isn't working: "no rule to make..." |
| 05:03.53 | moondoggy | Oh, do I need to select a makefile? |
| 05:04.15 | jeffm | you started with distclean? |
| 05:04.25 | jeffm | cis usually you don't need to do that |
| 05:05.02 | jeffm | you do ./autogen.sh then ./configure make then sudo make install |
| 05:05.11 | moondoggy | Oh, the readme suggested it. Just go on with ./configure, etc? |
| 05:05.13 | moondoggy | Ok. |
| 05:05.19 | jeffm | it's not a sugestion |
| 05:05.33 | jeffm | you need to autogen first |
| 05:05.38 | jeffm | the read me should be very clear |
| 05:06.43 | jeffm | ok, no it's just wrong |
| 05:06.54 | moondoggy | Are any of you maintaining the repo? It says "After any development packages are installed do a "make distclean" |
| 05:06.54 | moondoggy | command once in the top-level BZFlag source directory." |
| 05:07.10 | jeffm | yeah I see that |
| 05:07.11 | moondoggy | README.Linux, I mean. |
| 05:07.13 | jeffm | it's wrong |
| 05:07.19 | jeffm | and yes I can have it changed |
| 05:08.15 | jeffm | would like BulletCatcher to review it when he returns from his travels |
| 05:09.14 | moondoggy | Glad to see it's being maintained so well after all these years. It's very smooth and stable. Better than the crap code I write. |
| 05:09.28 | jeffm | oh it's not maintained that well |
| 05:11.20 | moondoggy | Er... runs well anyway. |
| 05:11.46 | moondoggy | So, this is all I have to do? It was so freakin' hard on the old DEC machine. |
| 05:11.49 | jeffm | thats mostly thanks to the fact that computers are much faster now then they were in 1992 |
| 05:12.04 | jeffm | the DEC isn't something we really take the time to support |
| 05:12.33 | jeffm | ubuntu is something that we try to support |
| 05:12.54 | jeffm | hence why we put it into the apt system |
| 05:12.55 | moondoggy | Yeah, the license fees are asinine. They only have the medical market--hospitals where equipment is tied to the Unix flavor we used to use. |
| 05:13.30 | moondoggy | Yeah, I'm at U. of Rochester, and we use Ubuntu heavily now. |
| 05:14.00 | moondoggy | I'd suggest getting it into the 12.04 apt. A lot of us are using it for the LTS. |
| 05:14.09 | jeffm | license fees? |
| 05:14.19 | jeffm | we can't go back |
| 05:14.32 | jeffm | 2.4 is not a security fix |
| 05:14.34 | moondoggy | Yeah, it's shit Unix, but people are tied to it. CAT scan machines, or something. |
| 05:14.55 | jeffm | please watch your language |
| 05:15.03 | moondoggy | Can't go back to 12.04? |
| 05:15.08 | jeffm | nope |
| 05:15.25 | jeffm | 2.4 got put into the apt chain in debian after it was released |
| 05:15.37 | jeffm | and you can only do back ports for security fixes |
| 05:15.44 | moondoggy | You should really consider it. There is a market (?) that sticks with LTS branch. |
| 05:15.48 | moondoggy | Oh! |
| 05:15.53 | jeffm | what part of "we can't" don't you get |
| 05:15.55 | jeffm | it's not up to us |
| 05:15.58 | moondoggy | It's "apt" rules? |
| 05:16.00 | moondoggy | I see. |
| 05:16.00 | jeffm | we don't run ubuntu or debian |
| 05:16.01 | jeffm | yeah |
| 05:16.22 | jeffm | the deiban games team submits the current version to the apt repositories when they package them |
| 05:16.35 | moondoggy | For some reason I thought anyone could dump stuff into apt... listings, or whatever you call them. |
| 05:16.43 | moondoggy | repo. |
| 05:16.48 | jeffm | 2.4.2 was released after the LTS version |
| 05:16.59 | jeffm | if anyone could then ubuntu would be a virus fest |
| 05:19.59 | moondoggy | Seems to be compiling... |
| 05:20.08 | moondoggy | Is SourceForge like github? |
| 05:20.25 | jeffm | github is like source forge ;) |
| 05:20.26 | moondoggy | Could I (in principle) fork it and request that you pull my changes in? |
| 05:20.31 | jeffm | no |
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| 05:20.41 | jeffm | you would submit patches |
| 05:21.17 | jeffm | but yes they are both source code repositories but github has the forking stuff, sf doesn't really do that kinda stuff, they won't store a fork for you |
| 05:21.23 | moondoggy | But it's version control in a similar way? |
| 05:21.36 | jeffm | yes they both are version control systems |
| 05:21.40 | jeffm | sf has several |
| 05:21.49 | jeffm | CIA, SVN, GIT, HG, etc.. |
| 05:22.56 | moondoggy | Ok, suppose I should learn sf... Believe it or not--I am talking to people about programming jobs. |
| 05:23.02 | moondoggy | I just can't compile yet. :) |
| 05:23.30 | jeffm | we don't use that many aspects of sourceforge |
| 05:24.08 | moondoggy | Mainly just to distribute to users? |
| 05:24.17 | moondoggy | How many of you are maintaining it actively? |
| 05:24.21 | jeffm | and the svn repository for code |
| 05:24.39 | jeffm | define "actively" ? |
| 05:25.39 | moondoggy | Heh... not sure. You must spend a lot of time just updating for new OS. |
| 05:25.51 | jeffm | huh? |
| 05:25.56 | jeffm | not really |
| 05:26.03 | jeffm | we make very few changes |
| 05:26.12 | moondoggy | Just occasional bugs? |
| 05:26.20 | jeffm | not really |
| 05:26.32 | moondoggy | What's the main thing? |
| 05:26.33 | jeffm | sometimes people change things |
| 05:26.43 | jeffm | sometimes patches are submited |
| 05:26.57 | jeffm | there isn't really any kind of push for anything |
| 05:28.43 | jeffm | 2.4.2 was mostly made just to get an updated version in the debian apt system |
| 05:28.44 | moondoggy | Is Riker still working on it? |
| 05:28.48 | jeffm | nope |
| 05:28.53 | jeffm | he doesn't seem to care at all about it |
| 05:29.06 | jeffm | doesn't even log in here |
| 05:29.35 | moondoggy | I see. |
| 05:29.42 | jeffm | thats why we had to get the debian games team to update apt, Tim used to do it |
| 05:31.13 | jeffm | blast007, how Notify is really slow these days |
| 05:32.14 | moondoggy | Oh, he writes OS or kernels or something? |
| 05:32.20 | moondoggy | Wow! It runs! |
| 05:32.42 | jeffm | who tim? no he was just the registered maintainer for bzflag |
| 05:32.46 | jeffm | I have no idea what he does now |
| 05:33.06 | moondoggy | Ok, one last dumb question: Can I just move it into /usr/local/ ? I installed it in my home directory. |
| 05:33.24 | jeffm | do a sudo make install |
| 05:33.29 | jeffm | that will copy it to usr |
| 05:33.38 | moondoggy | I have sudo privilege--god knows why they gave me that. |
| 05:33.58 | moondoggy | sudo make install from the top-level bzflag dir? |
| 05:33.59 | jeffm | probably so you could install things |
| 05:34.03 | jeffm | yeah |
| 05:34.05 | moondoggy | Hah! |
| 05:35.12 | moondoggy | Ok, this has been a lesson. |
| 05:35.24 | moondoggy | Thanks so much, everyone! |
| 05:35.28 | jeffm | it's a pretty standard method |
| 05:39.33 | moondoggy | I guess it was just a mess on the old machines I used. |
| 05:40.02 | jeffm | it was just an OS that doesn't work like the ones we tailored the build system for |
| 05:41.59 | moondoggy | Yeah, nice graphics, tons of servers listed. |
| 05:42.19 | jeffm | more then one per player :) |
| 05:43.19 | moondoggy | So, I did make install. Now I don't need my local directory it seems. I renamed it, and bzflag still runs. |
| 05:43.36 | jeffm | there ya go then |
| 05:43.37 | moondoggy | Where did all those auxiliary files go when I did make install? |
| 05:44.10 | jeffm | what auxiliary files? |
| 05:46.05 | moondoggy | Aren't there any? the executable has everything in it? |
| 05:46.38 | jeffm | the data files, images, and sounds are put in a shared dir too |
| 05:47.26 | moondoggy | tOk, that's a linux mystery for another time. |
| 05:48.22 | jeffm | I forget the path, it's somewhere in user or var or something, wherever they wanted us to put it |
| 05:50.44 | moondoggy | The funny thing is that I just turned 40, and I play like my grandmother used to, looking at the keyboard constantly. |
| 05:50.59 | moondoggy | After all this, I'm just going to get waxed all night. :) |
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| 06:57.57 | I_Died_Once | whats the path to the Downloadaccess.txt file on windows 7 ??? |
| 07:00.40 | I_Died_Once | nm, found it |
| 07:37.16 | jcp | TR works for the LDS church nowadays |
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| 11:12.49 | Notify | 03BZFlag:jeffm2501 * 22590 trunk/bzflag/README.Linux: fix instructions for linux build to not be older then sin |
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| 11:46.18 | ruskie | lol |
| 11:46.23 | ruskie | nice commit msg |
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| 16:53.49 | JeffM | blast007, any responce from Tim on the DNS? |
| 17:20.18 | blast007 | JeffM: nope |
| 17:20.22 | khonkhortisan | how do I get the menu back in xchat? |
| 17:20.45 | JeffM | give it a dollar |
| 17:21.04 | JeffM | or hit CTL + F9 |
| 17:21.45 | khonkhortisan | I don't remember hitting that |
| 17:38.47 | JeffM | probably because you didn't give it a dollar |
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| 18:13.47 | alezakos | Is it true that with VC++ Express I can't distribute a compiled BZFlag binary to someone who doesn't have VC++ installed? |
| 18:15.41 | JeffM | that is not true with VC EE 2008 or higher |
| 18:15.48 | JeffM | it is true with 2005 |
| 18:16.19 | JeffM | that's with regards to release builds |
| 18:16.36 | alezakos | README.WINDOWS disagrees with you |
| 18:16.45 | JeffM | if you do a debug build then VC is required to be installed for VCEE OR normal |
| 18:16.53 | JeffM | yeah well I wrote that when we used 2005 ;) |
| 18:17.01 | JeffM | I often disagree with myself ;) |
| 18:17.29 | JeffM | well I often forget to update readme files is more like it |
| 18:19.07 | Notify | 03BZFlag:JeffM2501 * 22591 trunk/bzflag/README.WINDOWS: remove messages about VC EE not using release runtimes since that is so 2005 |
| 18:19.07 | JeffM | the file is now updated |
| 18:19.21 | JeffM | ahh notify is all synced up again good |
| 18:19.46 | JeffM | ponders asking Tim if he'll turn over copyright again |
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| 18:20.26 | JeffM | ponders also not clicking the close box by mistake |
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