| 00:02.38 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (~SpazzyMcG@78-86-138-249.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 00:31.13 | *** join/#bzflag bizarrefish (~lee@host-89-240-248-78.as13285.net) |
| 00:55.00 | *** join/#bzflag trepan (~trepan@s72-38-252-50.static.datacom.cgocable.net) |
| 02:15.35 | jcp | Has there been any thought toward moving BZFlag to a DVCS? |
| 02:15.48 | blast007 | thoughts |
| 02:15.57 | jcp | ? |
| 02:15.58 | blast007 | and an attempt once |
| 02:16.04 | jcp | What went wrong? |
| 02:16.15 | blast007 | but our version history is complicated |
| 02:16.26 | jcp | ...what |
| 02:16.29 | blast007 | new stuff I've written for BZFlag is in a DVCS though |
| 02:16.29 | JeffM | I don't think anyone is against it, it just won't buy us much right now |
| 02:16.50 | blast007 | (websites, some plugins, config generator) |
| 02:18.37 | jcp | blast007: git or mercurial? |
| 02:18.43 | blast007 | mercurial |
| 02:18.53 | jcp | Thank god |
| 02:19.21 | blast007 | https://bitbucket.org/blast007/ |
| 02:19.27 | jcp | JeffM: My use case is that I want to experiment with some changes to bzfs |
| 02:19.51 | blast007 | make changes then |
| 02:19.57 | jcp | But I'd rather not spam SVN until I know that they're actually worthwhile. I'll just use hgsvn for now |
| 02:20.13 | jcp | blast007: And I deplore making changes without actually having a relatively fine-grained history of them |
| 02:20.15 | blast007 | branch trunk |
| 02:20.25 | JeffM | jcp, then put a copy in your own vcs |
| 02:20.33 | jcp | JeffM: That's what I'm going to do |
| 02:20.45 | jcp | It would just be easier to merge changes upstream later if BZFlag were versioned with a DVCS |
| 02:20.50 | jcp | But I'll revisit once I've actually got changes ready to push |
| 02:20.57 | JeffM | at the rate we develop, nope ;) |
| 02:21.02 | JeffM | what changes are you making? |
| 02:21.24 | blast007 | jcp: my "complicated history" stuff is the fact that we've renamed/moved branches/directories, and that we have multiple projects in a single repo |
| 02:21.35 | jcp | JeffM: Haha |
| 02:21.45 | blast007 | so converting that to a DVCS per-project is ... fun |
| 02:21.57 | blast007 | I'd rather not lose history by moving to a DVCS |
| 02:22.06 | JeffM | there is no need to keep history if develpment continues |
| 02:22.16 | blast007 | meh... |
| 02:22.18 | jcp | JeffM: Nothing really specific right now. Main two were to rewrite in Haskell and allow a single server to server multiple maps on different ports, so things that there's only a ~10% chance of anything useful resulting from it |
| 02:22.34 | blast007 | JeffM: you mean as long as SVN is still accessible? |
| 02:22.39 | JeffM | blast007, yeah |
| 02:22.40 | jcp | blast007: Oh, yeah. And [insert self-promotion warning here] this is the reason the world needs Filer. |
| 02:22.47 | JeffM | jcp, yeah keep it ;) |
| 02:22.56 | JeffM | a dvcs won't make that any more useful |
| 02:23.01 | JeffM | and why on seperate ports? |
| 02:23.06 | JeffM | why not do it all on the same port? |
| 02:23.39 | JeffM | multi port would just need to put the server in a class and instance it |
| 02:23.48 | jcp | JeffM: More or less, that's the idea |
| 02:23.50 | JeffM | not sure what a single exe buys you with that |
| 02:24.04 | JeffM | you'd have to thread it to be make it not suck |
| 02:24.05 | jcp | But allowing plugins that need/want it to talk to each other across multiple maps |
| 02:24.17 | JeffM | open a socket between the servers |
| 02:24.20 | jcp | Yeah, and hence rewrite in Haskell, as it's the only language I've found whose threading and synchronization don't suck |
| 02:24.23 | jcp | I know |
| 02:24.24 | JeffM | that'd be way simpler |
| 02:24.32 | jcp | I have other vague ideas right now |
| 02:24.42 | JeffM | there are other languages that do decent threading |
| 02:24.51 | blast007 | you want to rewrite bzfs in Haskell? |
| 02:24.55 | jcp | blast007: I'm tempted |
| 02:25.03 | JeffM | if you do it's useles to us |
| 02:25.08 | blast007 | pre-rejects that idea for official use |
| 02:25.09 | JeffM | so our vcs choice dosn't matter |
| 02:25.18 | jcp | Oh, right, I wouldn't imagine it would officially replace the official bzfs |
| 02:25.37 | blast007 | so what's the point then? |
| 02:25.40 | JeffM | again you can do it all in the same port, it'd be about the same work |
| 02:25.42 | jcp | But it'd be nice to develop it alongside it to make use of pieces of bzfs that can be reused |
| 02:25.45 | JeffM | just have each client have a game ID |
| 02:25.57 | JeffM | blast007, I think he's bored |
| 02:26.03 | jcp | JeffM: Yes :-P |
| 02:26.09 | jcp | Oh, I should have mentioned that |
| 02:26.11 | JeffM | reused for what? bzflag is dead |
| 02:26.16 | jcp | None of this would be happening if I had any other interesting projects to work on right now |
| 02:26.22 | jcp | Dead? |
| 02:26.37 | jcp | It certainly seems to be seeing less people, but imo it's only as dead as the contributions to it are |
| 02:26.40 | JeffM | uhh yeah, have you seen the commits that are flying in? |
| 02:26.45 | jcp | Exactly |
| 02:26.50 | JeffM | exactly |
| 02:26.51 | JeffM | squat |
| 02:27.00 | jcp | If I add improvements, then it's not dead. |
| 02:27.05 | JeffM | and we need MANY other thigns before server components |
| 02:27.09 | JeffM | you arn't imporiving anything |
| 02:27.18 | jcp | Gah, I'm bored |
| 02:27.21 | JeffM | you are shifting things around |
| 02:27.25 | JeffM | then fix real bugs ;) |
| 02:27.32 | jcp | Oh, I'm working on that too |
| 02:27.35 | JeffM | don't redo it in language nobody wants to use |
| 02:27.37 | jcp | I've got two I'm debugging right now |
| 02:27.38 | dngor | why is working on a port less non-boring than working on the official project? |
| 02:28.04 | jcp | dngor: @me? |
| 02:28.14 | JeffM | rewrite it in C#, it has sweet threading and network support |
| 02:28.29 | dngor | jcp: @whoever wants to rewrite it in a dead (to the project) language. |
| 02:28.30 | DTRemenak | haskell is cool |
| 02:28.38 | jcp | DTRemenak: Ikr |
| 02:28.47 | JeffM | I knew that'd get him to notice ;) |
| 02:28.56 | jcp | Haha |
| 02:29.05 | jcp | I started learning it years ago and it's fantastic |
| 02:29.15 | JeffM | he loves functional languages |
| 02:29.17 | jcp | Control.Concurrent.STM <3 |
| 02:29.54 | jcp | JeffM: I don't really have a preference either way, but Haskell's just... I think the best way to put it is that when you program in Haskell, the universe makes sense. |
| 02:29.56 | jcp | </high> |
| 02:30.08 | JeffM | whatever floats your boat |
| 02:30.10 | blast007 | 42 |
| 02:30.19 | JeffM | but it's not something that we would take on |
| 02:30.24 | JeffM | so any work there is useless |
| 02:30.30 | jcp | Not if others use it |
| 02:30.36 | JeffM | who would? |
| 02:30.42 | jcp | But as I said, I'm mostly using it as a boredom cure right now |
| 02:30.48 | JeffM | exactly |
| 02:30.59 | JeffM | how many boredom projects have you completed to the end? |
| 02:31.02 | jcp | I dunno... people that see improvements it has that they like |
| 02:31.14 | jcp | JeffM: Probably 35% of the ones I start |
| 02:31.17 | JeffM | what imporovments? |
| 02:31.19 | jcp | So enough that my time isn't completely wasted |
| 02:31.32 | JeffM | what would it do better? and who would maintain it? |
| 02:31.34 | blast007 | the Haskell version would have tacos |
| 02:32.01 | JeffM | we have had enough of codebasese refactors that nobody finishes or maintains |
| 02:32.36 | blast007 | and enough failed forks ;) |
| 02:32.42 | JeffM | thats why bzflag is dead, nobody will actualy maintain it, they just want to redo parts of it in there way |
| 02:33.49 | blast007 | that, and it doesn't have hats nor diamond swords |
| 02:34.08 | jcp | JeffM: Things like less bugs on account of Haskell's type system (and you have to use it to know why that's true), plugin security (think server hosts allowing others to upload arbitrary plugins), and stuff. |
| 02:34.18 | JeffM | if it had hats it would have money, if it had money people would mtaintain it ;) |
| 02:34.22 | jcp | I know, point taken |
| 02:34.30 | JeffM | jcp, those are super vauge |
| 02:34.39 | jcp | Although I seem to recall people being pessimistic about my bzfs webapp |
| 02:34.48 | jcp | JeffM: What more do you want? |
| 02:35.04 | JeffM | I want the bugs we have now fixed |
| 02:35.12 | JeffM | I want the server to have a gamestate |
| 02:35.17 | JeffM | I want the server to know about shots |
| 02:35.47 | JeffM | I want things that are actual problems fixed not acedemic conceptual things that are "better" |
| 02:36.28 | JeffM | sure you could allow people to upload arbitary code, but how does that fix any of the existing problems or make the end user have a better game? |
| 02:36.43 | JeffM | how does that prevent a tank blowing up if a dude comments out a single line of local code? |
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| 02:37.13 | jcp | Those are problems that do need to be fixed, yes |
| 02:37.16 | jcp | I'm not excluding them |
| 02:37.26 | JeffM | you arn't talking about fixing them ether |
| 02:37.34 | JeffM | you are sidesteping them |
| 02:37.36 | jcp | But as interesting as they are to you, and as much as I may (probably will) take a crack at fixing them, they're not as interesting or problematic to me |
| 02:37.45 | JeffM | and making the server harder for others to work on |
| 02:37.47 | jcp | No, I simply have different priorities than you |
| 02:37.54 | JeffM | oh I know |
| 02:37.59 | jcp | Oh, ok :) |
| 02:38.04 | JeffM | and you can do whatever you want, but I was talking about what is useful to us ;) |
| 02:38.17 | JeffM | and nothing you have said sounds useful to us |
| 02:38.50 | jcp | Right. Naturally I expect people will find uses for my ideas, but if no-one does, that's fine |
| 02:38.54 | JeffM | so it dosn't really matter if we have a VCS that is easer to merge into ;) |
| 02:39.08 | jcp | No, but it matters if you have a VCS that's easier to clone from and keep in sync |
| 02:39.31 | blast007 | svn co / svn up |
| 02:39.38 | jcp | blast007: And commits? |
| 02:39.43 | jcp | hgsvn will suit my purposes for now |
| 02:39.51 | JeffM | your ideas are useless to others unless you finish a complete server, and keep it up to date since it won't be in the mainline. So I don't know who these people are |
| 02:40.03 | jcp | JeffM: And if I do both of those things? |
| 02:40.26 | JeffM | then still you'd have to constantly implement every change someone else makes to the mainline to your codebase |
| 02:40.33 | JeffM | if you do that then you have a fork and that's fine |
| 02:40.40 | jcp | Right |
| 02:40.49 | JeffM | again it's still not useful to our project, it's useful to your fork |
| 02:40.57 | jcp | A fork which would presumably like to keep in sync with the bits of the mainline bzfs it uses, if it remains a fork |
| 02:40.57 | JeffM | and I just find that highly unlikely |
| 02:41.14 | JeffM | well we have said it can't go into the mainline |
| 02:41.30 | jcp | And I'll take it for granted that you may change your mind if Jesus comes tomorrow and such things |
| 02:41.42 | jcp | And we're all good. |
| 02:42.05 | JeffM | why would the gardener change anything? |
| 02:42.12 | jcp | Oh, you'd be surprised ;) |
| 02:42.52 | JeffM | the languge choice would reduce the number of people willing to work in the code, the odds of a haskell port being accepted are very very low |
| 02:43.13 | jcp | JeffM: For god's sake, stop taking me so seriously |
| 02:43.23 | jcp | If this ever actually materializes, we can talk about it then |
| 02:43.30 | JeffM | then start puttting ;) in your comments man! |
| 02:43.45 | blast007 | so you're joking about rewriting it in haskell? thank zombie jesus.. |
| 02:44.03 | JeffM | the gardener is dead? |
| 02:44.06 | JeffM | has a sad |
| 02:44.14 | blast007 | undead |
| 02:44.31 | JeffM | well good thing I got a shotgun for christmass |
| 02:44.48 | blast007 | I prefer blunt objects. |
| 02:45.06 | JeffM | don't have any of those |
| 02:45.12 | JeffM | I have a sword |
| 02:45.21 | JeffM | it's not very sharp, does that count? |
| 02:45.52 | blast007 | would be a useful tool |
| 02:46.39 | jcp | Agh! |
| 02:46.49 | jcp | runs away from the zombie killers and noms some more bodies |
| 02:47.39 | blast007 | unless it's a G-virus zombie... then the sword wouldn't do much |
| 02:47.48 | blast007 | could maybe poke an eye out |
| 02:48.08 | JeffM | blast007, if you really wanted to do a dvcs, export svn to our own server, make it read only and then put a copy of the current projects into dvcs, that'd be functional enough |
| 02:48.22 | JeffM | patches could be used to get stuff from old svn branches if needed |
| 02:49.05 | JeffM | at our current commit rate nether vcs offers any advantage over the other |
| 02:49.28 | JeffM | and we know that SF is going to force us to 'upgrade' the site at some point |
| 02:49.36 | JeffM | so moving off it may not be a bad idea |
| 03:00.08 | jcp | http://hg.opengroove.org/bzflag |
| 03:00.15 | jcp | In progress, and contains everything in one repo |
| 03:00.17 | jcp | But it's a start |
| 03:02.34 | jcp | ~ping |
| 03:02.34 | ibot | ~pong |
| 03:13.27 | JeffM | I still say redo it all in torque |
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| 03:14.57 | trepan | might as well wait for desktop quantum computers, will probably need to change the coding style a little to take full advantage of them |
| 03:15.14 | JeffM | then we'll code with our minds! |
| 03:15.45 | Constitution | is it necessary to meet any and every new project idea with ridicule? |
| 03:15.58 | JeffM | nope just the silly ones |
| 03:17.29 | JeffM | if the idea is a good one it can stand up to the problems that people throw at it, it's part of proving it's a good idea |
| 03:18.04 | Constitution | who cares if he wants to re-write the server in another language? even if we may not use it, it would be an interesting project, would be useful experience for the developer, and we might get an idea or two from it we could actually incorporate |
| 03:18.47 | Constitution | really, it's no wonder we don't get new developers or sustain activity from the ones we have, the way we ridicule every new proposal or idea |
| 03:18.48 | JeffM | of course, thats why I said he can do whatever he wants, I did not tell him to not do it, I just said that it would have limited usefulness to us |
| 03:19.21 | JeffM | you can not take all discussion about ideas as ridiculing if they are not imediately glowing |
| 03:22.19 | JeffM | are you saying every idea deserves to just be pushed forward with out discussion? |
| 03:22.40 | JeffM | if so why even bother disussing it here? |
| 03:26.14 | Constitution | discussion should be able to take place constructively without coming across as ridicule or with excessive negativity |
| 03:26.38 | JeffM | what was excessivly negative? |
| 03:26.43 | Constitution | and I'm not pointing fingers at any specific person, just a general atmosphere I have observed over time |
| 03:27.31 | Constitution | it's useless? I pre-reject that idea? what's the point... |
| 03:27.36 | JeffM | I think you just see a lot of people with not great ideas |
| 03:27.48 | JeffM | because it sets the presecence of what the project is looking for |
| 03:28.01 | Constitution | no doubt |
| 03:28.16 | JeffM | it shows the asker didn't even bother to read the roadmap |
| 03:28.33 | Constitution | but a person with a silly idea today may be a mature, active, contributing developer in a year or two, if they are treated respectfully |
| 03:28.43 | JeffM | if the asker had come across as saying "hey I have this idea, it solves these problems, but needs a rewrite" then that's open for discussion |
| 03:28.50 | JeffM | not "i'm bored, and love haskell" |
| 03:29.28 | JeffM | I belive jcp is a mature developer |
| 03:29.38 | JeffM | he's just super bored and don't want to fix many bugs ;) |
| 03:29.45 | Constitution | the point of a DVCS being easier for side projects is a valid one |
| 03:29.50 | JeffM | sure |
| 03:29.59 | JeffM | and nobody had ANY disagreement about the DVCS |
| 03:30.27 | JeffM | the discussion was on the need to merge that side project back into the mainline as that was what he said he wanted the DVCS for |
| 03:30.42 | JeffM | and for that merge you have to ask what those changes are |
| 03:31.02 | JeffM | beceause if you go off and make them and find out that they are so far outside the goals of the project, your time may be wasted |
| 03:31.09 | JeffM | for him I don't think his time will be wasted |
| 03:31.13 | JeffM | as the project is for him |
| 03:31.23 | JeffM | if he fixes bugs, fine |
| 03:31.42 | JeffM | at our development rate a dvcs or patches could be used to merge those changes back in |
| 03:32.05 | JeffM | but honestly we have seen way too much code be dumped because someone went off and rewrote it by themseves |
| 03:32.13 | JeffM | and that was the point we were trying to make |
| 03:32.21 | JeffM | that makes those changes useless |
| 03:32.37 | JeffM | 1.8, 2.99 all effectivly useless now because we dropped them |
| 03:32.54 | Constitution | agreed on that point |
| 03:33.51 | BulletCatcher | We learned from those abandoned branches, if it was only that certain approaches don't work. |
| 03:33.56 | Constitution | still, we could be slightly more receptive or encouraging toward people with interest in development related to this project |
| 03:34.32 | Constitution | appoints himself the official project care bear |
| 03:34.33 | JeffM | I don't think we drove him off of development, I think we put his idea in perspective to our previously stated goals |
| 03:35.01 | JeffM | BulletCatcher, indeed and the proposed idea had many of the hallmarks of those approaches |
| 03:35.51 | DTRemenak | hugs Constitution |
| 03:36.07 | JeffM | stares at Constitution |
| 03:36.24 | JeffM | what emblem is on your belly laser? |
| 03:36.34 | BulletCatcher | fires a cannonball that bounces off Constitution |
| 03:36.47 | JeffM | those are gummi bears not care bares |
| 03:36.50 | JeffM | bears |
| 03:37.21 | JeffM | tho Constitution is dashing and daring, couragous and caring, fathfuly and friendly |
| 03:37.36 | JeffM | marching along his song fills the air |
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| 03:46.27 | short_circuit | Wow. Things got a little... off. |
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| 03:57.51 | jeffm | goes off to rewrite bzfs in lolcode because it has better threading |
| 04:03.28 | blast007 | jcp: if I wanted to crappily convert our SVN to Mercurial, I could do that myself ;) |
| 04:04.08 | jcp | blast007: and that's exactly what I'm doing ;) |
| 04:04.23 | jcp | Because developing on a Mercurial repository that's otherwise identical to the SVN repository is still a vast improvement |
| 04:04.34 | jcp | But I'm always open to further improvement ;) |
| 04:05.14 | blast007 | http://hg.opengroove.org/bzflag <-- that's worse than using SVN |
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| 04:06.54 | blast007 | reason being that you have to download *everything* from *every* project from there to get anything. |
| 04:07.08 | blast007 | thus why I'd want to do it with a repo per project |
| 04:07.19 | jcp | "worse" is subjective |
| 04:07.27 | jcp | And so I amend my previous message: |
| 04:07.42 | jcp | s/vast improvement/vast improvement for me, for various reasons/ |
| 04:07.45 | JeffM | not the best use of a dvcs |
| 04:07.54 | JeffM | for you it's probably fine |
| 04:07.55 | jcp | But better than a centralized one |
| 04:08.02 | jcp | JeffM: No, a per-project repo would be better |
| 04:08.14 | jcp | I just got sidetracked in the mean time |
| 04:08.22 | jcp | is making æbleskiver for his family |
| 04:08.47 | JeffM | I think that is illegal in some states |
| 04:10.06 | blast007 | Constitution: if you're gonna quote me, at least keep the context. I said "for official use", as in, merging into our repo |
| 04:10.18 | JeffM | a number of people have made private DVCS repos of just bzflag |
| 04:12.52 | JeffM | blast007, just think if we'd actualy ridculed it, "Haskell, more like hassel!, am I right?" |
| 04:12.54 | blast007 | http://git.bzfx.net/bzflag.git/ |
| 04:13.01 | blast007 | heh |
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| 04:38.32 | jcp | Oooh, shiny |
| 04:38.52 | jcp | I seem to recall having a debate a while back with AAA_awright about git vs. mercurial |
| 04:39.20 | jcp | is firmly in the latter camp, although still dissatisfied, and writing my own DVCS as a result |
| 04:39.35 | jcp | (20% chance it'll ever see the light of day, heh) |
| 04:39.38 | AAA_awright | jcp: I'm diagnosing you with NIH syndrome |
| 04:39.49 | jcp | AAA_awright: No, the model mine is based on is much superior |
| 04:39.54 | AAA_awright | How? |
| 04:40.16 | jcp | It's a rather long explanation |
| 04:40.25 | AAA_awright | I'm here a rather long time |
| 04:40.29 | AAA_awright | What a coincidence! |
| 04:40.30 | jcp | I'll message you once my æbleskiver at done cooking |
| 04:40.40 | jcp | Oh, no, I'm just in the middle of baking, but in probably ~hour I'll have time |
| 04:40.41 | AAA_awright | jcp: Git is perfectly sufficent |
| 04:40.52 | jcp | AAA_awright: I think you'll see why my model is superior once I explain it |
| 04:41.01 | jcp | I mean, SVN was sufficient too |
| 04:41.05 | AAA_awright | No, it wasn't |
| 04:41.15 | AAA_awright | SVN doesn't have multiple commit parents, or tags, or even branches |
| 04:41.19 | jcp | Filer isn't quite the leap that git was above subversion, but it's still a leap |
| 04:41.20 | AAA_awright | Well, pesudo-branches |
| 04:41.47 | jcp | Right, and git doesn't have nested commits or stamps |
| 04:42.00 | AAA_awright | Nested commits? |
| 04:42.05 | jcp | They're the main cool thing |
| 04:42.10 | AAA_awright | The Git data model is perfectly sufficent for everything you could need to do, you have commits, they have parents, a message, and a pointer to a tree |
| 04:42.15 | jcp | But my æbleskiver need ot be turned, so I'll be back in a sec |
| 04:42.34 | AAA_awright | And you have refs to help you manage all that mess of objects |
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| 05:40.36 | jcp | Damnit |
| 05:41.16 | jcp | I should have known they'd fall apart with egg replacer |
| 05:41.29 | jcp | But my brother's happy, at least. Anyways... |
| 05:42.45 | jcp | AAA_awright: Filer. |
| 05:43.10 | jcp | Although, perhaps this should be moved to another channel, as I expect it'll take a bit to explain |
| 05:54.44 | allejo | just whistles in the background thinking about Constitution being the project care bear |
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| 06:28.32 | jcp | Tracked the display bug down to smoothing |
| 06:28.53 | jcp | Doesn't happen if smoothing is turned off, and unfortunately it's locking up my X server |
| 06:28.57 | jcp | debugs in a VT |
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| 10:33.46 | jcp | Man, I remember the days when people were actually civil on BZFlag |
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| 12:15.58 | bizarrefish | Hi, all |
| 12:16.50 | Constitution | hi |
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| 12:41.44 | joevano | http://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18360 |
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| 14:48.31 | blast007 | jcp: locking up your X server? were you running it in gdb at the time? |
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| 18:37.59 | JeffM | blast007, http://db.bzflag.org/ nice! |
| 18:41.19 | blast007 | hehehe |
| 18:43.49 | blast007 | kinda forgot I had made that ;D |
| 18:44.54 | JeffM | I was curious how much smaller the server list got after joevano's post |
| 18:53.48 | blast007 | I don't think db.bzflag.org was ever actually used (or not enough for me to bother hooking it up) |
| 18:56.35 | JeffM | I think it was used in 2.99 |
| 19:03.13 | blast007 | the latest 2.99.x code still references m.b.o |
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| 19:16.56 | JeffM | ahh |
| 19:17.03 | JeffM | then maybe we wanted to do that :) |
| 19:20.54 | JeffM | or I've gone crazy |
| 19:21.17 | JeffM | probaly the latter, too much time spent thinking about CDNs |
| 19:26.48 | ruskie | http://sourceforge.net/projects/bzflag4android/ <-- someone actually started a SF project? |
| 19:28.23 | JeffM | yeah they had mentioned it on the forums at one point |
| 19:28.36 | blast007 | as you can see, it's quite active |
| 19:31.14 | JeffM | gags on the code formating |
| 19:32.13 | JeffM | but there is a fair amount of work done there defining the networking interface |
| 19:32.24 | JeffM | tries to be positive for the care bare |
| 19:32.59 | blast007 | the networking part is some of the easier stuff though ;) |
| 19:33.11 | JeffM | indeed |
| 19:33.12 | blast007 | I was able to implement a portion of that in PHP |
| 19:33.23 | JeffM | tho my guess is they would start by doing bzadmin first |
| 19:33.44 | JeffM | that'd get them a framework and let them skip the harder parts of the client |
| 19:33.51 | JeffM | and provide something useful |
| 19:33.53 | blast007 | the bzadmin part is the part with the most code and most recent activity |
| 19:34.13 | JeffM | yeah that's what I based my guess on |
| 19:55.26 | jcp | blast007: tried both ways, same result |
| 19:56.09 | jcp | Doesn't lock up the VTs though, so I'm using one of them to debug |
| 19:59.41 | blast007 | jcp: I mean, does X lock up, or does the game? |
| 20:00.05 | blast007 | (in other words, if you kill the game from a VT, does X come back into a usable state?) |
| 20:10.12 | jcp | Oh, yeah, it's fine once I kill the game. It's just while the game's running that I have about a 5-second window every 20 seconds where I can actually do anything |
| 20:10.29 | jcp | I really need to screencap this, it's weird |
| 20:11.41 | jcp | (and when it's in windowed mode, I can't do anything to other windows outside of the five seconds while it's running) |
| 20:11.56 | blast007 | even if you turn off mousegrab? |
| 20:12.05 | blast007 | confine mouse* |
| 20:12.31 | jcp | yep |
| 20:12.38 | blast007 | weird |
| 20:12.41 | jcp | I always turn that off, it annoys me |
| 20:12.42 | jcp | Yeah |
| 20:14.05 | jcp | When I get back to a computer I'm going to kill it in a VT while it's in gdb and see if I can get anything useful from the backtrace |
| 20:14.42 | blast007 | maybe type 'break' into gdb while it's hung |
| 20:16.29 | jcp | That'll do |
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| 21:30.05 | Notify | 03BZFlag:JeffM2501 * 22570 (trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsPlugins.cxx trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsPlugins.h): if we have pending HTTP authentications then fire off the tick events quickly so they can process. |
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| 21:56.08 | bizarrefish | Lo peeps, I submitted a patch for a bug btw: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=303248&aid=3598999&group_id=3248 Just saying, as it hasn't been assigned or anything yet. |
| 21:59.16 | JeffM | yeah they usualy don't get assigned untill I check my mail |
| 22:02.34 | Notify | 03BZFlag:JeffM2501 * 22571 trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsHTTPAPI.cxx: make bzID authentication work for HTTP plugins |
| 22:03.30 | JeffM | bizarrefish, not many people check out the entire trunk so it's usaly fine to make patches from /bzflag |
| 22:04.05 | Constitution | thank you JeffM :) |
| 22:04.14 | JeffM | Constitution, for what? |
| 22:04.21 | Constitution | positivity |
| 22:04.26 | JeffM | NEVER! |
| 22:04.31 | JeffM | you suck |
| 22:04.44 | bizarrefish | JeffM: Ahh, gotcha. It did take a heck of a long while.. |
| 22:05.14 | JeffM | bizarrefish, most differs can take care of it, it'll usualy just ask us to match up the folders |
| 22:06.40 | JeffM | so when the countdown ends you are just sending all the scores for the reset? |
| 22:07.03 | alezakos | Happy new year BTW |
| 22:09.37 | JeffM | bizarrefish, how are you making the patches? |
| 22:09.45 | JeffM | just with svn -diff? |
| 22:15.45 | Notify | 03BZFlag:JeffM2501 * 22572 (trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/Score.cxx trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/Score.h trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx): accept patch 3598999 from Lee Marshall to fix bug 757503 Player scores now reset at match start, as with team scores. |
| 22:18.24 | bizarrefish | JeffM: Yeah, I reset the scores server side, then broadcast a MsgScore. I hope that's ok. I'm quite new to all this shiz |
| 22:18.43 | JeffM | not knowing what shiz is, ok |
| 22:18.44 | bizarrefish | I'm making the patches with svn diff > myfile.patch |
| 22:18.46 | JeffM | yeah it looked fine |
| 22:18.50 | JeffM | k |
| 22:19.03 | JeffM | you can just do it from the bzflag dir |
| 22:19.36 | JeffM | I am wondering if we should make seperate patch tracker items for each bug fix or just attach the patch to the bug |
| 22:19.42 | bizarrefish | good good. And by shiz, I was referring to bzflag development. I got a new wireless keyboard yesterday, and decided to celebrate by fixing my first and second bzflag bugs |
| 22:19.45 | JeffM | then we have to only close one item not 2 |
| 22:20.19 | bizarrefish | Attaching the patch to the bug sounds good. Reduces the chance that bugs will end up getting fixed twice, etc... |
| 22:20.56 | JeffM | yeah but then there may not be a notification that action happned on the bug. I get an email for new patch submissions |
| 22:21.12 | JeffM | so it's a quandry |
| 22:21.14 | Constitution | where is the bug referenced by that patch? |
| 22:21.26 | JeffM | in the bug tracker |
| 22:21.35 | JeffM | it's the ID 757503 |
| 22:21.46 | JeffM | the patch ID is actualy 3598999 |
| 22:21.55 | JeffM | so it's a bit confusing having 2 IDs to deal with |
| 22:22.12 | JeffM | I'll see if I can set myself up to be notified for bug edits |
| 22:22.28 | bizarrefish | Yeah, was just gonna say... |
| 22:22.52 | JeffM | I realy wish SF had better tools for this |
| 22:22.53 | bizarrefish | Could get a little floody, if people keep changing bug descriptions and such... |
| 22:22.57 | Constitution | why should /countdown reset player scores? they have to rejoin anyway to spawn on the base |
| 22:22.58 | JeffM | they don't |
| 22:23.11 | bizarrefish | I second the motion that the SF bugtracker sucks. |
| 22:23.21 | JeffM | Constitution, the game is over and should be reset |
| 22:23.34 | JeffM | and perhaps we should respan them when the game is started then |
| 22:23.37 | JeffM | rejoin is bad |
| 22:24.10 | JeffM | stop being negative! |
| 22:24.16 | Constitution | sure if that is changed as well. second question, is this really a change we want in the next maintenance release? |
| 22:24.18 | bizarrefish | heh |
| 22:24.20 | JeffM | his patch is a precious little flower! |
| 22:24.21 | Constitution | lol |
| 22:24.35 | JeffM | next what? |
| 22:24.47 | JeffM | I don't think it's a bad change, we may want a bzdb option to controll it |
| 22:24.56 | JeffM | as some people may want it some may not |
| 22:27.05 | JeffM | ok, I may be monitoring the bug tracker now |
| 22:27.10 | JeffM | or the entire project |
| 22:27.12 | JeffM | I don't know anymore |
| 22:27.20 | bizarrefish | Sounds good :) |
| 22:27.22 | JeffM | the SF site makes no sense anymore |
| 22:27.30 | bizarrefish | lols |
| 22:32.55 | alezakos | What about an external tracker? Like bugzilla, mantis or redmine? |
| 22:33.25 | JeffM | moving off of SF has been discussed |
| 22:34.53 | Notify | 03BZFlag:macsforme * 22573 trunk/bzflag/ChangeLog: Update ChangeLog to reflect new behavior of /countdown. |
| 22:35.33 | alezakos | JeffM: ...And? |
| 22:35.55 | JeffM | it's an involved process but nobody was against it |
| 22:36.15 | JeffM | my sugestion is we export SF SVN to a read only svn that we control |
| 22:36.32 | JeffM | then move the projects into something like bitbucket |
| 22:36.46 | JeffM | then shutdown the SF site |
| 22:37.04 | JeffM | but then we loose our primary download for the major OSs |
| 22:37.10 | JeffM | I don't know what our bandwith is for those |
| 22:38.16 | Constitution | bizarrefish: if you would care to look into making players spawn on the base after /countdown as well, it seems like that would complete the solution you provided and it would be appreciated. Otherwise I'll try to look into it when I have time. |
| 22:38.46 | JeffM | Constitution, you may need to kill em |
| 22:39.41 | Constitution | the server already does |
| 22:39.58 | JeffM | k, then it should be just a flag on the players |
| 22:40.40 | blast007 | I'd say keep the SF site there, but just reduce what features of it we utilize |
| 22:40.49 | blast007 | SF project* |
| 22:41.01 | JeffM | so maybe shutdown the trackers if we have a replacment and just use it for downloads? |
| 22:41.06 | blast007 | yeah |
| 22:41.14 | JeffM | fair nuf |
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| 22:54.07 | Notify | 03BZFlag:JeffM2501 * 22574 trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsHTTPAPI.cxx: don't try to set a pathset if the pathset is null |
| 22:54.43 | Notify | 03BZFlag:JeffM2501 * 22575 trunk/bzflag/plugins/webReport/webReport.cpp: users that have report perms are valid so let the template knowallow an empty action |
| 22:56.08 | JeffM | with those changes webadmin can probalby be backported to trunk |
| 23:00.26 | bizarrefish | Constitution: How do you make the server kill the players after /countdown expire |
| 23:00.30 | bizarrefish | -s? |
| 23:00.45 | Scrumpy | Happy New Year |
| 23:01.02 | bizarrefish | Scrumpy: Happy new year, dude. I'll join you in 2013 in about an hour |
| 23:01.51 | Constitution | bizarrefish: I would have to look at the code, I don't know |
| 23:03.44 | Scrumpy | :) |
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| 23:25.41 | Notify | 03BZFlag:JeffM2501 * 22576 (trunk/bzflag/include/bzfsAPI.h trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx): add API function to count players. |
| 23:33.34 | bizarrefish | Constitution: I may be being dense here; Didn't you say the server already kills the players? |
| 23:56.29 | Notify | 03BZFlag:JeffM2501 * 22577 (trunk/bzflag/include/bzfsAPI.h trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx): bz_getName is a dumb function name, make an alias that has a good name like bz_getFlagName |