IRC log for #bzflag on 20121129

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04:52.01sussudioJeffM: bzflag 2.4 doesn't run on windows 2000, in case you were wondering... says "invalid win32 binary".
05:09.23I_Died_Oncehave you tried WIndows ME ??
05:11.34I_Died_Oncelol, we got 32 people... next server down, badgerking with a whopping seven
05:11.53I_Died_Oncesomeone else needs to get a goom game together
05:11.57I_Died_Once*good
05:14.10sussudiowhy would i try windows ME, it's the shitty old Win9X tree.
05:14.24sussudioeverything ran bad on Win9X compared to 2000.
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05:28.04I_Died_OnceJeffM - a new core dump
05:28.07I_Died_Oncefew minutes ago
05:28.09I_Died_Oncehttp://pastebin.com/9F7FhcKw
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11:36.33blast007sussudio: please watch your language here
11:38.17blast007sussudio: as for Windows 2000, it seems that the move from Visual C++ 2008 to 2010 probably got rid of Win2k support, since the runtimes for 2010 only show support for XP SP3 and up
11:43.17sussudioblast007: i didn't see you tell I_Died_Once to watch their language.
11:44.19blast007?
11:44.48sussudioi'm not going to repeat it. it was a very rude abbreviation.
11:45.04blast007bleh
11:46.42sussudioblast007: is there some way to enable display of networking errors/warnings? debug mode doesn't seem to do it...
11:47.07sussudioi recall that previous versions used to give them
11:47.07blast007what kind of errors/warnings?
11:47.22sussudiodisconnects/rejects, stuff like that.
11:47.39blast007should be the same as 2.0
11:55.10sussudioblast007: what would cause being able to connect to a server, but not able to spawn? (no messages)
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12:10.15blast007sussudio: a hostban
12:11.07blast007hostbans are buggy (have been for years) and generally seem to kill the connection before sending out the rejection message
12:11.26blast007so it just hangs there until the connection times out
12:21.44sussudioblast007: lame. i hadn't played bzflag for about a year and i think i'll shelve it again. this isn't fun.
13:00.51joevanosussudio: k.. bye
13:11.35blast007sussudio: not our fault your banned from a server
13:11.38blast007you're*
13:14.36Constitutionif it's a hostban perhaps it was not directed at him
13:15.17blast007quite sure it was in this case
13:15.24joevanoyep
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17:24.02JeffMsussudio, I don't think 2k is a supoorted platform for direct X 9
17:34.53JeffMI_Died_Once, can you duplicate that with a recording?
17:39.07blast007I think it can run early versions of 9
17:41.00I_Died_OnceI was lucky to catch that one
17:41.22I_Died_OnceI had left a client on logged it with the /password to get it
17:41.25I_Died_Once**loggen in
17:41.29I_Died_Once****logged
17:41.37JeffMit's not going to be any use if we can't duplicate it, we'd need to see what the info in the map and shot were
17:41.41I_Died_Once<--- typing champion
17:41.54I_Died_Oncebut I have a question about that though....
17:41.57blast007JeffM: I have one of their replays that consistently crashes the client
17:42.13JeffMcool, maybe you can run it on a server I can access this weekend?
17:42.19blast007sure
17:42.42JeffMis reconsidering his choice to go to school 3 days a week
17:42.58blast007JeffM: do you still recommend VS 2010 instead of 2012?
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17:43.46I_Died_Onceare those coordinates in there?
17:43.47I_Died_Once<PROTECTED>
17:45.06JeffMblast007, oh hell yes
17:45.21JeffMI would wait on 12 untill it's first SP comes out
17:45.21I_Died_Oncelanguage!
17:45.28JeffMhell is used on TV
17:45.34JeffMit is acceptable
17:45.41JeffMsince it's not real ;)
17:45.55I_Died_OnceWell bless your heart!
17:46.04JeffMthe things said last night, not so much
17:46.25JeffMbassicly I draw the line at hell for here ;)
17:46.29I_Died_Oncemy client must've timed out and I missed what the Phil Collins fan said
17:46.44JeffMit involved poop and poop like qualities
17:46.48I_Died_Oncemaybe while i was rebooting
17:46.58I_Died_Oncewell bless his heart too
17:47.09JeffMpoo is a bit much for here
17:47.25JeffMwell some forms of poo descriptions
17:47.34blast007JeffM: I was playing around with 2012 here a bit, but it felt too Windows 8-ish  :P
17:47.40I_Died_Oncehe wasn't hostbanned at mofo, unless he was just now logging in after a week or so
17:47.50JeffMyeah I'm not a fan of the low contrast stuff
17:47.51I_Died_Oncewhich i highly doubt
17:47.58JeffMthere is a way to get rid of the all caps
17:48.01JeffMthankfuly
17:48.16JeffMI_Died_Once, that insn't enough info to recreate the entire shot path and the sate
17:48.24blast007I didn't even notice the all caps.. wasn't in it long enough to need to access a menu
17:48.28JeffMheh
17:48.42JeffMthe only reason we may consider it here is that it does better mixed mode stuff
17:49.01JeffMif we go to it next year it'd be the first time we went to a compiler that wasn't on it's SP1
17:49.45blast007maybe they'll just call it Visual Studio Blue
17:49.46blast007:P
17:50.15JeffMdoes it have 150 new pokemon?!
17:50.56blast007probably
17:51.09JeffMI have acheivements in my 2010
17:51.18JeffMthankfuly I don't have the GOTO one
17:51.47blast007Blue used Start Menu. It was ineffective.  Blue used Show Desktop.  Windows fainted.
17:52.24JeffMsome of the GUI tools in 12 are pretty nice, they let you bring an image as a guide under the designer
17:52.43blast007Windows Blue is the codename for Microsoft's possible annual OS release..
17:52.58JeffMwhy even have releases, just keep updating it
17:53.04blast007money
17:53.05JeffMWoW it
17:53.12JeffMoh charge a subscription ;)
17:53.13blast007well, true.. could do a subscription
17:53.22JeffMyeah, you don't pay you go off updates
17:53.49JeffMtho then that makes it seem like they will support old hardware for as long as you pay
17:54.10blast007the fun part is that they said that once Blue comes out, they won't allow developers to submit apps targeting Windows 8
17:54.43blast007dunno if that just means that they need to upgrade their projects to the new SDK (and still be able to support Win8) or if that means that they wouldn't be able to support Win8 anymore..
17:54.44JeffMwell what does "targeting" mean
17:55.06JeffMit probalby means ones that are win 8 only, and they must be bult to run on 8+
17:55.39blast007one would hope
17:55.54blast007but this is the same Microsoft that deemed the start menu useless
17:56.11JeffMmicrosoft is not one dept
17:56.21JeffMso I'd not say that it's the same
17:56.35JeffMthere are MANY different parts that have different often coflicting ideas
17:56.54JeffMthe people that make windows, don't decide how to sell windows ;)
17:57.11blast007okay.. it's maybe the same department that thought it would be a good idea to only allow metro apps to be created with the VS express versions?  ;)   (before public outcry made them change their mind)
17:57.23JeffMheh
17:57.32JeffMthat was probably just a marketing choice
17:57.50blast007more of a "Please, someone make us some metro apps!"
17:57.50JeffMand yeah that happens in a lot of companies, marketing has no idea about actual use cases
17:58.00JeffMyeah that's what marketing wanted to push
17:58.09JeffMso they looked at how they could package products to do that
17:58.20JeffMthey don't care much about the actual use cases
17:58.29blast007I still have two programs in use here that require UAC to be disabled  :/
17:58.31JeffMthen the product managers come back and say "no no.. you are dumb"
17:58.53JeffMany kind of software developer probalby should turn off UAC
17:59.04JeffMit's intended for home users, and for that I think it's a good thing
17:59.15JeffMapple has similar problems with the gatekeeper
17:59.17blast007I haven't had any issues with leaving it on
17:59.22JeffMcool
17:59.32JeffMif you can run like that then more power to you
17:59.34JeffMI can't
17:59.54JeffMthe remote deuber is treated as an attack sometimes :)
17:59.56blast007and of the two programs that require UAC to be off, one I don't need at all (it's for the HVAC system) and the other I just run in a VM
18:00.23JeffMhaxors blast007's heaters
18:14.43blast007JeffM: probably wouldn't be hard.. the password probably something stupid like "heat"
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19:27.37alezakosI'm currently developing custom plugins/flags/variables for bzfs_conf.html. Should I put custom plugins under the `Administration` section?
19:29.15blast007bzfs_conf.html should just die in a fire
19:29.25alezakosWhy?
19:29.54blast007because it allows people to make configs that don't work, which just result in more support issues
19:30.23blast007it makes it *easy* to make configs that don't work
19:30.55blast007and then they have no idea which part is broken since they generated the whole thing in one go
19:37.32blast007alezakos: if someone is builting custom bzfs plugins, I'd think they should know how to write a config file by hand, no?
20:00.43alezakosI meant plugins, not custom plugins
20:01.54blast007how are you going to handle plugins that require a configuration file?
20:02.09blast007or require configuration options to be passed
20:03.35alezakosAs far as extra parameters are concerned, there will be two collumns: One with a file input where the path of the plugin is located, and another one where command line options are to be passed.
20:04.34blast007so in other words, it's no easier than just doing it manually
20:05.31JeffMcome on blast, we need to have 5 servers per player
20:05.36blast007or might even be less easy, since when you do it by hand, you just have to specify the plugin base name (like 'logDetail' or 'serverControl') and not have to browse to the full path
20:06.21blast007if anything, the number of options in that webpage should be *reduced*, not expanded
20:06.57blast007tune it for the proper purpose - throwing together a quick private server
20:07.38alezakosI thought it was supposed to be an easy way to create full-featured config files - without having to browse through the man files or the wiki.
20:10.09alezakosBut still, a 'simple' version with fewer parameters can be created.
20:12.28blast007no, the purpose of it was to create support issues for us  :P
20:12.49blast007people putting stuff like 'yes' into the interface field, for instance...
20:13.06JeffMwho dosn't want an interface?!
20:13.07blast007it's a nightmarish tool
20:13.25blast007JeffM: well, for one, it should be written as a Metro app
20:13.29blast007:P
20:13.31JeffMdamn straight
20:13.35JeffMI'll get right on that
20:14.22blast007alezakos: the problem is that we get people using that who don't read the man pages, so they have no idea what to put into certain fields, nor do they even know if they NEED some of the fields
20:14.54blast007I just feel that if you want to run a server, you should actually KNOW how to configure it yourself
20:16.27JeffMone of our big problems is too many poorly run servers
20:16.59JeffMalezakos, is there a need for people to use this tool with plugins? have there been requests? or is it just something you felt like doing?
20:19.25alezakosJust something I felt like doing.
20:19.33JeffMk
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20:58.21JeffMwonder what our player cap is at these days
21:04.43blast007been almost three days since my server has seen a player ;)
21:07.28JeffMyou need more plugins
21:10.50blast007and no team kills, and faster tanks and shots, and more shots, and and a dozen geno flags
21:11.01blast007s/and and/and/
21:11.40blast007suppose some of the players don't like that I removed the geno flag ;)
21:12.00blast007I mean, how are they supposed to rack up points if they can't chase down the weakest players with geno??
21:15.54JeffMpray and spray of course
21:16.02JeffMand the score keeper plugin
21:16.10JeffMso you just reward people that play longest not best
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23:31.41JeffMwould like to thank PlanetMofo for making bzflag look even less stable :)
23:50.03kierralol!
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23:57.01brad~lart allejo
23:57.01ibotteaches allejo the basics, including how to RTM

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