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| 05:56.46 | blast007 | JeffM: seems MS has decided to gimp the Visual Studio 11 Express |
| 05:56.52 | blast007 | http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/05/no-cost-desktop-software-development-is-dead-on-windows-8/ |
| 05:57.02 | JeffM | it hasn't even been release yet has it? |
| 05:57.33 | blast007 | nope |
| 05:57.41 | blast007 | think a beta might be, at least of the full thing |
| 05:58.09 | JeffM | there was a dev preview that was flagged as "express" but it only shipped with the metro stuff |
| 05:58.17 | JeffM | I don't think that was part of the product spec, just the preview |
| 05:58.21 | blast007 | ah, guess we'll see them |
| 05:59.54 | JeffM | 11 is really talored to metro anyway |
| 06:00.30 | JeffM | I'm sure it'll evolve |
| 06:00.42 | JeffM | and worst come to worse, use monodev |
| 06:06.50 | JeffM | the slashdot article makes it sound like NOBODY EVER made free or open source software before express edition. |
| 06:14.18 | I_Died_Once | microsoft is retarded, thats a dumb move |
| 06:14.29 | I_Died_Once | like thats going to force the hand of the web |
| 06:14.39 | I_Died_Once | of anyone |
| 06:15.28 | I_Died_Once | i dont think many people are going to pay to install windows 8 on a tablet that came with android |
| 06:15.56 | JeffM | you really have no idea what you are talking about, it's not going to be sold that way |
| 06:16.12 | JeffM | most tablets don't allow the OS to be changed at all |
| 06:16.33 | I_Died_Once | i read a deal that said win8 is going to be a tablet oriented OS |
| 06:16.46 | JeffM | yes, and you didn't understand it |
| 06:17.10 | JeffM | windows 8 can be built for arm and some tablet makers will sell tablets with windows 8 |
| 06:17.21 | JeffM | you don't buy windows 8 and install it on your existing tablet |
| 06:17.32 | JeffM | just like I did not install windows 7 on my phone |
| 06:17.53 | JeffM | apple's doing the same thing, you consoldate your code to run on multiple platforms |
| 06:18.07 | JeffM | windows 8 will support a touch screen with tablet like interfaces very well |
| 06:18.10 | JeffM | even on a PC |
| 06:18.24 | I_Died_Once | computing as a whole is changing, people are starting to use desktops less and less |
| 06:18.32 | JeffM | yes and no |
| 06:18.38 | JeffM | they are using them for different things |
| 06:18.40 | I_Died_Once | microsoft does not have the stranglehold they think they have |
| 06:18.47 | JeffM | and some people have found they don't do much computing |
| 06:18.50 | JeffM | they do browsing |
| 06:18.58 | JeffM | and that dosn't need a full desktop computer |
| 06:20.35 | I_Died_Once | http://www.damnlol.com/i/0652c4ec67c5226509c43a7048e54634.png |
| 06:20.51 | JeffM | 29$ |
| 06:20.59 | JeffM | but yeah |
| 06:23.04 | JeffM | the nice thing about metro apps is that they should work on desktop, phone, and tablet with no code changes |
| 06:26.40 | I_Died_Once | so to make a bzflag for windows 8... soomeone's going to have to break out a couple hundred bucks? |
| 06:27.00 | JeffM | no |
| 06:27.07 | JeffM | that's why that article is writen baddly |
| 06:27.17 | JeffM | bzflag runs fine on windows 8 |
| 06:27.49 | JeffM | it just means they are not making an express version of C++ and C# for VC 11 |
| 06:27.54 | I_Died_Once | i think windows should release XP as a free "legacy" version |
| 06:28.01 | JeffM | why, it's horrible |
| 06:29.27 | I_Died_Once | not all computers can run the newer versions of windows... who is going to want to pay any real money to buy an OS for a computer so old that still works |
| 06:29.57 | JeffM | then they'd have to spend money supporting XP |
| 06:30.07 | JeffM | those people can use linux |
| 06:30.09 | I_Died_Once | so awesome people like me can sell old junk and make a profit |
| 06:30.53 | JeffM | all that old hardware probably came with an XP license anyway |
| 06:31.00 | I_Died_Once | key word: awesome |
| 06:31.14 | JeffM | this word, I do not think it means what you think it means. |
| 06:31.39 | I_Died_Once | ;) |
| 06:33.27 | blast007 | I_Died_Once: you can't go out and buy Windows 8 RT. It will only be available for OEMs to license. |
| 06:33.58 | I_Died_Once | I rue the day when I buy a computer that I cannot install linux to |
| 06:34.13 | JeffM | just like you can't buy a license of iOS |
| 06:34.33 | blast007 | I_Died_Once: and XP needs to DIE. |
| 06:34.45 | blast007 | so that I can stop supporting IE8 |
| 06:34.45 | JeffM | he's just trollin like normal |
| 06:34.53 | JeffM | just wait for the "WW" |
| 06:35.56 | I_Died_Once | I'm not trolling |
| 06:38.00 | I_Died_Once | thats odd that its not going to be "sold" like blast said |
| 06:38.15 | JeffM | not really |
| 06:38.17 | blast007 | ARM devices are not like x86 devices |
| 06:38.20 | I_Died_Once | so if one builds a computer from scratch |
| 06:38.23 | JeffM | mobile OSs have NEVER been sold seperately |
| 06:38.31 | JeffM | you are so out of your leauge |
| 06:38.40 | JeffM | you should just stop talking |
| 06:38.42 | blast007 | you can't just throw a disc in and have it work. ARM devices vary widely in hardware and function. |
| 06:38.51 | JeffM | a PC WILL be sold like you expect, and tablet WILL NOT |
| 06:38.58 | blast007 | not all of them boot the same. most probably don't even have a BIOS. |
| 06:39.10 | JeffM | and the OSs on arm devices are usualy in firmware or flash media |
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| 06:39.25 | JeffM | most have closed bootloaders |
| 06:39.37 | JeffM | so you are ether babblin, or trollin, pick one |
| 06:39.53 | blast007 | and it needs to be at least an ARM v7, iirc - some devices, like the Raspberry Pi, are an ARM v6 |
| 06:40.10 | blast007 | not that the Pi would have enough RAM anyway |
| 06:40.26 | blast007 | (and they'd still have to partner with Microsoft to do it) |
| 06:41.00 | I_Died_Once | you got me, i dont go out and buy tablets left and right like that, I was lead to believe from that earlier article that windows 8 was going to be available in a jackassy manner, didn't know the extent of it |
| 06:41.05 | blast007 | and as an example, the Pi doesn't even have a BIOS. It loads firmware off the SD card and it actually boots using the GPU. |
| 06:41.45 | blast007 | there's not really any standardization with ARM devices |
| 06:41.47 | I_Died_Once | i've known a fe cats to install all different version of 'droid to their phones and tablets, changing the OS on those didn't seem like that impossible of a task |
| 06:41.48 | JeffM | you just showed that you didn't read the article, it was about visual studio not windows 8 |
| 06:42.09 | JeffM | it's not impossible, it is just not supported by the manufacture |
| 06:42.13 | I_Died_Once | i meant an older article |
| 06:42.22 | JeffM | it's also easy to change versions of the same OS that the device has support for |
| 06:42.30 | blast007 | and android is different, because it's open source and it uses a linux kernel |
| 06:42.32 | JeffM | installing droid on an iphone is hard |
| 06:42.38 | JeffM | but not impossible |
| 06:42.44 | I_Died_Once | but i thought win8 would be done , more or less, in the same manner |
| 06:42.53 | I_Died_Once | i'm not trolling, dont hate yo |
| 06:43.00 | JeffM | it will be done in the same manner as current mobile devices |
| 06:43.02 | JeffM | by the OEM |
| 06:43.04 | blast007 | closed source OS == much harder or impossible to "port" to a device |
| 06:43.11 | JeffM | you buy a device and it has an OS |
| 06:43.13 | blast007 | without partnering up with the company |
| 06:43.29 | JeffM | people don't pick an OS to install on a phone usualy |
| 06:43.44 | blast007 | so far, I think I like WebOS the best |
| 06:43.59 | blast007 | it's more intuitive than Android, and it's not Apple. Two wins. |
| 06:44.39 | JeffM | I prefer WP7 over iOS after using it for over a month |
| 06:44.50 | blast007 | ever used WebOS? |
| 06:44.55 | JeffM | no |
| 06:45.01 | blast007 | it's nice |
| 06:45.10 | I_Died_Once | as stupid as it sounds, I've had too, too many fresh install of windows on various systems that's blue screened in its initial boot - its hard to see "windows on atable/phone" without thinking caution |
| 06:45.12 | blast007 | at least on the touchpad |
| 06:45.29 | JeffM | I_Died_Once, windows phones have existed for a long time now |
| 06:45.43 | blast007 | I_Died_Once: you should probably stop installing Windows 95, then |
| 06:45.57 | I_Died_Once | i've had XP and Vista do that several times |
| 06:45.58 | blast007 | or stop using memory you found in the gutter |
| 06:46.11 | I_Died_Once | now, THATS funny right there |
| 06:47.00 | blast007 | BSOD on a clean boot would likely be a hardware issue |
| 06:53.41 | I_Died_Once | once it was for certain, not every time though |
| 06:53.51 | I_Died_Once | meh, to each his own |
| 06:54.53 | I_Died_Once | hard to shake the image of being on the phone..."Yo, Ma... I'm broke down, I'm at the corner of... hello? Hello?" - look down and the phone is blue screened |
| 06:55.09 | I_Died_Once | i'm sure its not really like that |
| 06:55.29 | I_Died_Once | lasting impressions of a product and all |
| 06:55.54 | JeffM | then you should be worried about iPhones running out of memory and kernel panicing |
| 06:57.33 | I_Died_Once | heres a healthy done of humility - i'm certain that most every problem i've ever had with linux was a problem between my keyboard and the computer chair |
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| 09:08.55 | Constitution | ROFL... I guess scammers aren't always that bright... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb69H7l0vJA |
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